thats what I love about this show. He goes from "Hey he's a pretty reasonable guy" to doing complete despicable acts. Really shows the duality of man, and a testament to the writing of this show. Even side characters have more layers than some shows protagonists.
@@dordz1021 someone’s always gotta bring up askeladd whenever people talk about how horrible ketil is LMAO we know askeladd is a horrible and despicable person too omg😭😭😭
You're kinda missing the point if you think this is specifically about slave owners. Anyone can put on a kind front but lack the ability to stick to morals when things get difficult
@@Noddarappa Yes, I can see that on a surface level. No one thinks that the story isn't trying to say slavery = bad. But if that's all you got from the story, then you're missing out big time on the character writing. There's plenty of people that rightly condemn Ketil for being a slave owner but are also guilty for the same or similar personal failings he has
@@Ash_Wen-li it isn’t surface level. Ketil’s character and him being a slaveowner are not separate things. His failing isn’t just that he lacks principle in times of crisis. He is pulled along by the institutions he has power under and is driven to commit acts that seem contrary to his introduction. He is a slave to them. One might even say that he sticks to his principles in times of crisis: the principle of defending his possessions at any cost. Notice how all that fear of delivering a beating goes away when it’s Arnheid and not two little kids?
@@NoddarappaThe scene is literally about slavery so of course it's surface level to notice that. You can go ahead and analyze slavery and how it relates to the story at a deeper level if that's what you choose but that's not the point I'm making. The point I'm making is that there's way more to the story, scene, and character of Ketil than just him being a slave owner. Yukimura writes with way more nuance than that and boiling Ketil's character down to being bad simply because he's a slave owner is a disservice to that writing. This point is even contradicted later when we have a slave owner who treats his slaves arguably worse than Ketil but isn't considered to be that bad of a guy (in context to the story, not real life) Edit: Also Ketil doesn't really have "keeping your possessions no matter the cost as a principle". He was fine with letting the kids get away with stealing and didn't even punish the retainers that destroyed his wheat fields. His two biggest driving forces are avoiding conflict and seeming like the "ideal man" but unfortunately those values are based on his weakness rather than his strength
I hate Ketil but goddamn the writing for him and this story is so fucking good man’s whole world crumbled in hours and he’s always been this scared😹 of a man but the only thing he actually has control of is Arnheid he’s to scared to do anything to Canute and his own son but he’s “big and bad” enough to beat a tied up slave!!My man who wrote this story is a GOAT for sure!!
Yeah, Yukimura could have easily wrote Ketil as a stereotypically evil person, but what we got is so much better. "There is no such thing as a good slave owner" and Vinland Saga shows us why. You could see his possessiveness seep in and reveal that his love and kindness was conditional and false all along.
it reminds me a lot of Ousama Ranking...where you never know if you should like or hate a character because they always twist it on you and make it unpredictable so you never know who to be emotionally attached to
@@GrowingDownUnderI knew I was gonna see a comment about this because I thought the same thing! Unfortunately, I thought that like the last 3-4 episodes were bad 😭
Comment from the Reddit thread awhile back from /u/TheBatIsI. Fun fact, that sword Ketil unsheathes with etched markings is an Ulfberht sword, a sort of 'brand-name' sword known for being high quality and expensive. ...But the etchings don't exactly match the sword, meaning that Ketil has a counterfeit Ulfberht sword, which were often common to see. When this first released in the manga, I remember a lot of people discussing it, and if Yukimura had made a mistake before someone pointed out the possibility that it's intentional and a perfect match for Ketil. Just as Ketil has a fake reputation as a fearless and savage warrior when he's in reality a man who's afraid of fighting, he has a fake Ulfberht sword that tries to pass itself off as the real thing.
@@dordz1021 I believe that not even Thorfinn and Thors considered themselves more worthy than Ketil. Ketil is definitely not the biggest monster we've seen in this story, but just because there's a worse human out there doesn't make beating a pregnant slave any less serious.
I’ll never understand people trying to divert the attention from ketil to talk about thorfinn askeladd or thors 😂like we are all aware they all did some terrible shit but the cowardice of ketil strikes something in people who watch
It's easy to be good when life is easy, but hard to be good when life is hard. I love the comparison between Ketil and Thorfinn and how they handle life and its challenges differently
14:18 The kids were punished because it would give others the idea that they could get away with theft if the kids went unpunished. Also, Pater was the one who recommended the beating in the first place (which Ketil was visibly uncomfortable with). Ketil also prevented Thorgil from doing it so the kid wouldn't die.
@@Halofreakanoid 1: I agree that the kids shouldn't beaten, but I am alive in 2024 (not 1015 or whatever year it is at this point in VS), with likely thousands of studies on child abuse (and its effects) at my fingertips. 2: Morality is only black and white for people with zero power/authority and people with absolute power/authority. It's a shade of grey for all others (my mind could be changed on this potentially). 3: Whether Ketil was/is a good, moral leader is irrelevant to whether or not those kids were going to steal from him.
@@yomama8978 I’ve studies this time period as a hobby for over 15 years. You don’t need to look at this through a contemporary view of morality, because in all time periods there existed a variety of values and moralities including here. Many people in different places believed slavery was immoral. Not every person believed beating children for thievery to survive was moral. In this story, Ketil himself does not want to beat the children and thinks it’s wrong. He’d rather they just work for him to pay back what they stole, and then have their own money so they don’t have to steal anymore. This is the *correct* choice. Regardless, this is meant to be a story we observe through contemporary eyes in order to make us feel a certain way and understand morality and the choices we make today. There are people who live today that believe beating children is morally correct. There are people today who believe in slavery and oppression.
The most gut wrenching episode for me, I first read this in the manga , and it is even worse watching it in anime. I can't stomach rewatching this ep. Arnheid doesn't deserve all of this. I rarely get emotional when it comes to anime, but this is the first time I am furious over a fictional character.
Yeah, I dreaded watching this episode because I knew what was coming from having read the manga. The soud just makes it even worse. And Mayumi Sako really sells it. It's one of the hardest scenes to watch for me, in any anime.
We have an incredible moment with Thorfinn being gentle, kind and considerate, asking if a non violent and peaceful solution exists, concluding that no one deserves to suffer. I think that we, as viewers, agreed with him genuinely. Moments later we are confronted by reality. That people like Ketil exist. And they can even be good and nice most of the times. It's hard to conciliate what we think with what we feel. Anyways, Alana I'm loving your reactions ❤ the best episodes are still to come.
The scariest thing isn't just that Ketil did all that. The scariest thing is realising that in real life, a lot of men who are perpetrators of domestic abuse are like Ketil: they come off as decent on the outside, and they may be good to people at work and outside, but behind close doors, they can be the most horrible creatures on earth.
As someone who first kinda liked Ketil, seeing how we empathized with people that are far worse in season 1, I gotta admit that I hated his guts after this episode. Just horrifying.
Ketil: a capable and benevolent farmer who supported the lives of hundreds of people, but in deep despair, he severely beat a single slave woman. Thorfinn: an angry, narrow-minded boy who killed hundreds of people just to duel with Askeladd. This is why one should not judge people by their own emotions.
I don't think I've ever been as emotionally riled at an anime character before as I was when that mf beat Arnheid. I pummeled my desk out of pure frustration watching this scene.
ahhhhhhhh here we are. I for one thought Ketil was an overall solid guy before this, even if he lacked backbone and so on. But this is certainly a turning point on that.
i do think he think he actually is a solid guy as the Ketil before this point was the real him and from now on its just him suffering through a psychosis because of the stress
Silly comment, that’s how the world worked back then. They’re also paid wages(that goes to the farm for two years), and given food . They’re also not forced to be there, he gives them an option if they want to join or not. He’s truly evil in some ways as shown with Arnheid as she has no option and is truly a slave to him. So all of that goes out the window. The others are more like paid servant’s that can leave if they want in the future. All of them generally say good things about him and all of the slaves problems come from other people like body guards or regular farmers(so you can fault him for not being able to keep them in check) Your logic is pretty lousy because really there’s not much better out there for these people. You can do what Thors and Leif did but that’s extremely unsustainable(maybe Lief can do it for awhile since he’s a famous merchant).
I was quite surprised when I saw thediscussion after watching the episode. I just saw a slave owner beat a slave half to death that is pregnant with his child. Why in the world would I look for a justification for this? lol
@@dordz1021 Then I have seen enough for both of us lol. It's either "*insert character* did worse", "He was at the end of his rope, of course he lashes out" or they even try and blame Arnheid for it. I also saw one who linked it to the attractiveness of the characters that Snake isn't blamed for anything because he's attractive and Ketil gets all the backlash because he doesn't look good enough rofl.
@@FeastForThought i honestly think ketil actions are not justifiable but unlike alot of people(including snake as you mentions) he gets alot of heat for it. Which i do believe he deserves but you dont see this same amount of hatred going to others and i think thats why some peoe are getting frustrated
This episode tells empathy is one thing, but justice is another. Ketil was a solid man but I see where his madness and evil coming from, well writen, but a crime is a crime. TLDR; No defense for Ketil's Act, but we can understand the reason behind.
To all who would defend ketil: Empathy is a great thing, but you have to understand that no matter what one has gone through, it does not justify the evil committed. You can both understand someone why they did what they did, and hold them accountable for their misdeeds. Its called having boundaries.
What I especially love about the farmland arc is how it debunks the myth of the good slave owner. Ketil is initially set up as such a reasonable and even gentle man that for a second, you may even forget that there isn’t an ethical way of owning people as your personal property, only for the author to unmask him for the abusive scumbag that he is in the climax. Well done yukimura
For a nordik warrior in that era death in battle field is the best gift you can have because Valkyrie might visit you if you prove yourself in battle to lead you to Valhalla.
I don't know if I'm wrong but, regardless of the discussion about who did more horrible things, I interpret this episode as part of the season's message. If this season is about freeing from what makes us slaves, finding the way to redeem ourselves and move forward, we show the opposite with Ketil: a person who, to be the "most liberal slaveholder", is the one who is most enslaved to his "things" (his farm, his false image as an iron fist, Arnheid) to a sickening point that could be considered his only emotional support. And we can see the consequences of maintaining this wrong mentality of clinging too much to something. But yeah... it is a very painful episode to watch :c
Ketil screamed and yelled about pride and taking his pride but the reality is he never had any. He's just angry his utter lack of pride is on full display. People are seeing the true him and he knows his true self is pathetic so he just hides in his fury trying to beat respect out of people.
This is The only episode of Any anime that make me feel like i wasnt watching an anime, feel like i was witnessing a real crime, good edit good diréction,
Real big men in these comments I hope nothing ever happens to your daughters your mothers your sisters your wives and girlfriends and if it does, I hope no one screenshots your comment and sends it to you.
this episode gives us understanding of ketil, who is living his life as a lie . a simple lie makes people thinking about how he is a "great warrior" that retired. that is one of the reasons why he brought arnheid so she could be there for him but after just witnessing how she almost ran with her husband his only way and person helping him to escape all lies also cheated on him. the author is so hella incredible about how he wrote this beautiful show! also thanks alana that i can remember what happened in the show by watchin your reactions
I haven't been able to watch the scene of Ketil assaulting Arnheid since it debuted. It was hard enough to read in the manga and the anime didn't censor it at all. Once is enough for me. I did watch you watching it happen.
I think far too many people confuse defending Ketil for invoking perspective. This story follows a protagonist who is a mass murderer, whose actions have led to the rape, enslavement, and death of dozens to hundreds of people - all in the pursuit of vengeance. Just because many of those happened off screen does not somehow mitigate this. Ketil is a fraud. A weak man who can not live up to his fantasy version of himself when the going gets tough. He takes out his considerable frustration at the seeming collapse of his entire life on the one person he knows can't do anything about it, and who he also feels betrayed by. Does this make him a shit person by the standards of today? Absolutely. But that was the standard of the time. It is important to point this out because some will take Ketil's actions as the evilest low that someone can sink to when in fact this was happening every single minute of every single day to countless people, some having done even less to "earn" such treatment than Arnheid. Some who never enjoyed the favoritism or freedom that she did. Some whose masters were infinitely more cruel, vicious, and sadistic than Ketil. The moral of the story is that slavery sucks no matter how much you dress it up, as when it comes down to it no matter how much Ketil loves Arnheid, she is still a slave in his eyes and thus his property. And it is much easier to take out your rage on your property than the mother of your child. I think Ketil is a very realistic character. Someone who tries to be better than the average, but ultimately is too weak to hold to those values when things get hard.
At first glance, Ketil seems like a very kind and gentle man. That is correct. However, his true nature is cowardly, prideful, and self-centered. Ketil also said she could not believe that her violent eldest son was her son. But yes, the eldest son was definitely his son who inherited another essence of Ketil. At first glance, Gulzar and Ketil seem to have contradictory qualities. However, the two have something in common. He is fundamentally arrogant and does not understand the true meaning of "kindness."And they became obsessed with more wealth and power than they needed, and they destroyed themselves. The realistic character settings and depictions in this anime are truly amazing.
His kindness was born from weakness and cowardice. “Nice guy.” Not born from strength. With expectations attached. “B-but I bought you a bunch of stuff, why won’t you date me! 🥺”
Askeladd is a likeable and charismatic guy who does horrible things. Ketil is a unlikeable spineless coward who does horrible things. Gee I really wonder why people love Askeladd and hate Ketil? I can’t seem to think of a reason…🤔
That's good character writing, Ketil is still maybe a good master with his slaves but when he is tested with something he can't control his true nature as a coward and that whole "Iron Fist Ketil" fraud that he is comes out. A slave owner is still a slave owner, even though the promise that he will always free them if that slave is someone "special and useful" to him, he will not let go.
Not liking violence is good. It isn't something to enjoy or strive for. But fearing violence is a bad thing. There is violence and evil everywhere, and in order to truly navigate the world and get "stronger" you must acknowledge this violence. Ketil spent his whole life running from this fact, constantly in pursuit of more wealth as a way to buy his ticket away from the evil in man. In doing so he was never able to confront the potential evil within himself, thus leading to this moment when pressed against the wall.
I still remember that quote from that priest it just applies to this situation rn. Willibald says what the thing you call love is just discrimination. And that's what you all are doing rn because since you know arnheid more than the other side characters you get touched more when it's about her so you are discriminating towards those innocent people, who got killed by thorfinn or askeladd, if you consider they did not matter as much as arnheid did. So if we talking about the lowest scums of this anime the answers are obviously obvious.
People saying that ketil is Coward but I think Snake is Much Big Coward in series he has a Good in him but he doesn't have a Couarge to Stand agaist ketil and Thorgill just because he Eat there Food so he Close his eyes and still help Bad person like ketil if Arnied didn't Stop Gardar he would Eat snake even thorfin does not have phisicall power to stop Gardar Arnied show Good in her Snake character is same as Karan from Mahabharat
“Defense” is not the same as someone contextualizing Ketil’s actions, and pointing out he faces the same opportunities of redemption that ALL of the characters in the story are offered. I have no problem calling Ketil’s actions immoral the same as I say it is immoral when Askelad orders the extermination of entire village. The message of Vinland Saga is about the hope of the cycle of violence being broken even by Viking culture which glorified violence, but what I find interesting is when audience members exclude that possibility for Ketil.
Nobody is excluding anything, st the time thorfin was Bad then in the future turnos good, askrlad was Bad to thorfin un the future he was good to thorfin, ketil is Bad right now, there is no future still, people can't react to the future kill because doesnt exist, just can react in the right now.
@@mem5860he was not good to thorfinn. He used thorfinn up until his very last moment. Only once he was on deaths door he offered to let thorfinn kill him and not even in the way thorfinn wanted. Askeladd is a horrible person through and through but people tend to side with him closer to the end because its from his perspective and they started liking him
lmao I feel weird for not totally hating Ketil. I can empathize with him. He's getting his farm taken from him, and Arnheid tries to escape even though he's a "good" master. He's also in love with her which adds to his stress. I'm not saying he's in the right but I think any human under those circumstantial would act as crazy as him.
I think the “defending Ketil” stuff was more just a reflection on this show. I’ll start by saying Ketil is indeed horrible, I’m on board with you guys. If I remember right, the point people were making was that Thorfinn killing the amount of people he has is way worse than what Ketil did and Thorfinn still found a road to redemption, so they were defending Ketil’s chance for redemption. Personally he’s horrible in my eyes until proven otherwise, if he decides to redeem himself and atone as Thorfinn did then it’s up for debate, but until we see that, defending his possibility of redemption seems like giving him too much, as he currently is inarguably a monster.
I don't personally "hate" Ketil. He's a slaveowner, that's just how people were back then. And we know relatively speaking he's one of the more better ones. The Vikings did far worse.
The only episode I skip when rewatching Vinland, having to watch and listen to Arnheid get beaten to death is probably the worst thing ive watched in a while. Theres more gory thing but the beating is so personal and thats what makes it so hard to watch
Writing so good. I hate this man so much even though by all accounts, people like Askeladd, Thorkell, Thorfinn, and Canute have done way waaay worse than this.
(Spoiler) Here's a HOT TAKE! - Seeing this episode truly makes us hate Ketil but he is just a coward he's never killed anyone so far, the world around him is crushing down upon him and he's eaten by his rage resulting in war with the king which could have been avoided by negotiation. Now who are we to judge him, in retrospect Thorfinn was far worst. In episode 23 we see Ketil in grief just as Thorfinn in episode 8 (empty). Im not saying that Ketil shoud be forgiven but HATE is a strong sentiment. That's not VINLAND SAGA is about.
We defend ketil cause we understand the facts what lead to this, we dont ignore that like most reactors.. What ketil did is wrong and there no excuses for it all.. We seen the devil come out of a human from what transpired in these recent episodes.. But ignoring those facts and not understanding what turns a human into the devil is just as bad as what ketil did cause a person chose to ignore those facts and not acknowledge them.. Hopefully people learn from this but I understand its difficult for some people and thats life..
I disagree. Arnid did nothing wrong. Kettle is a slave to woman that dont want him. his own wife is old and not young, if you enslave someone whatever happens is on you. let that girl go. to be with the people she cares about. kettle is an animal
Kinda wish they had SOME kind of reunion with Leif and Thorfinn. Wish all the build up on Leif looking for him, was a letdown when they just skipped over the part they saw each other again
Turns out there's a bigger priority of them pointing their attention to one of their friends who's just been beaten up, besides Thorfinn and Leif had already had the heartfelt re-encounter years before
Ketil had a psycotic breakdown, the guy was a saint up until that point, during this psychotic episode he beat someone (he was not trying to kill). Askeladd did bad things too but we loved him.
I mean we can argue back and forth whether he was the lesser evil of slave traders but he definitely wasn't a saint. A saint wouldn't brutally beat a child to make himself seem like the ideal man
the law of the land demanded a harsher punishment for stealing, he just wanted to let the kid go free but if you watch that episode he was not strong enough to do that, he even commits to beating the child so that Thorgil would not hurt him too badly. You dont have to nitpick because I said "saint" it was a bit hyperbolic, yes. Ketil was a good fellow who had a psychotic episode, he even has a flashback to his earlier great love that was taken from him during the beating. He will regret this singular vile crime for the rest of his miserable life. @@Ash_Wen-li
Everyone hates ketil now and that’s the bs I talk about When you have a ‘’favorite’’ character you just ignore everything bad everyone loves Askeladd and that guy did a lot worst things that ketil I mean a hate ketil but at least I’m consequent
I'm not here to argue that Ketil is a good guy. For me he is just another guy in the story, better than 90 percent of the cast even. What did he do? Beating a child who is a thieve, and beating a slave woman half to death? That is like vanilla, boys. Thorfinn and Thors killed like a thousand mofos and not a single soul is complaining. Let that sink in. Killing is the most heinous crime known to man. It's final, the victims can't ever recover from getting killed. They killed thousands. Again, I'm not defending the guy. I'm just pointing out that you all are not looking at thing logically, which is fine really. Just want to let you know.
The way the human brain works is we feel more anger and empathy towards the character we know and like/hate. Yes thorfinn and askellad had killed a bunch of people but we didn't know anything about them meanwhile arnheid is such a sweet soul she doesn't wana hurt anyone and is caring seeing someone like her get beaten makes you sad and angry towards ketil that's just how our brain works.
@averagegamer4346 Then fix ur brain what you saying is not applied to everybody. And I still remember that quote from that priest it just applies to this situation rn. Willibald says what you call love is just discrimination. And that's what you are doing rn because since you know arnheid more than the other side characters you get touched more when it's about her so you are discriminating towards the other innocent people, who got killed by thorfinn or askeladd, if you consider they did not matter as much as arnheid did.
He didn’t just beat her half to death tho. She died of the injuries he gave her. He killed her. He’s a murderer just like a majority of the other characters in this show. He’s a liar and a coward and a slave owner. He’s just an overall horrible person. He’s not any better than Thorfinn or Askeladd.
@@lawsennin6806 i never said i didnt care for all the people thorfinn killed. It is a bad thing there is no denying it. I just pointed out that people knew arnheid more and her beatdown was very well animated as well so naturally people felt more empathetic. As my take on who is better thorfinn or ketil I would say thorfinn because he is now on the path of redemption and whoever admits they were horrible in the past and tries to better themselves I see it as a W.
What really boggles my mind is how people can see that circumstances completely broke a man, driving him to a despicable act and yet call him evil and hate on him, meanwhile people watch a genocidal psychopath kill millions of innocent people and are like, "Awww, poor Eren. What a hero."
I agree more or less with Ketil, he is just another character, it is not to hate him, since he did less damage to the world than Thorfin, Thors or Askelaad, who killed entire families and everything else under his orders. But about Eren? It is separate, since it is another story, in addition to the same way as those who support Ketil, or support Eren, or any character who did bad things, (Thorffin gave it to him because he will be a child), but it still does not deserve I'm sorry for your sins (I took countless lives) those types of people are very bad.
Yeah, Eren did what he did, but "hero" definitely isn't the word for him. Some people just summarize that he did it to save his friends, but there was a deeper part of him that wanted the rumbling to see the freedom he was itching for, he outright says this in the finale. lol
@@raec5426 He was still essentially portrayed as the hero of the story by Isayama (even though he accomplished absolutely nothing and showed zero remorse, while being totally self-absorbed) and all his friends conveniently decided to turn a blind eye to the genocide, making them just as morally culpable. Basically it seems to me that Isayama himself must be a sociopath with absolutely no sense of ethics to have written that ending (nevermind all its other massive flaws). Also the vast majority of fans seem to be nothing but sympathetic to Eren, which is just staggering to me.
Well stories evoke emotion. Authors usually wants us to feel things. It's fine to feel something as long as you can appropriately separate fiction enough from reality.
To be honest, I don't feel sorry for Arnheid at all. She freed Gardar, who immediately killed a man, and who knows how many more he would have killed and what he did. Then she dragged Torfin and Einar into it all. And with all these actions, she constantly put her child in danger. Only Torfin and Einar need to be pitied here, they are the real victims of all these squabbles.
ketil is a horrible, descpiable person. to see people defend him after this episode boggles my mind lmao💀
Like frr wtf
thats what I love about this show. He goes from "Hey he's a pretty reasonable guy" to doing complete despicable acts. Really shows the duality of man, and a testament to the writing of this show. Even side characters have more layers than some shows protagonists.
As bas as he is, askeladd is still worse
@@dordz1021 And people ADORE him, does it "boggle some mind" too, I wonder.
@@dordz1021 someone’s always gotta bring up askeladd whenever people talk about how horrible ketil is LMAO we know askeladd is a horrible and despicable person too omg😭😭😭
“Who says I don’t want her.” Chills absolute garbage example of an abusive coward.
Yes your ritht here
It’s his slave what u talking about if he doesn’t want to sell her it’s his right to
@@algeria6902 there's no way you thought this was a good point to make bro
@@larbolarb1625obviously it doesn’t apply today but this is a good point he made. why r u so emotional
@@deeegeeekay They only act like that cause is a pretty woman. If Ketil did this to a male slave, they would've forgiven him right away.
It just goes to show: even the kindest slavemaster is still a slavemaster.
You're kinda missing the point if you think this is specifically about slave owners. Anyone can put on a kind front but lack the ability to stick to morals when things get difficult
@@Ash_Wen-liif you watched this whole season and didn’t think that this scene was a commentary on slavery then it is you who has missed the point
@@Noddarappa Yes, I can see that on a surface level. No one thinks that the story isn't trying to say slavery = bad. But if that's all you got from the story, then you're missing out big time on the character writing.
There's plenty of people that rightly condemn Ketil for being a slave owner but are also guilty for the same or similar personal failings he has
@@Ash_Wen-li it isn’t surface level. Ketil’s character and him being a slaveowner are not separate things. His failing isn’t just that he lacks principle in times of crisis. He is pulled along by the institutions he has power under and is driven to commit acts that seem contrary to his introduction. He is a slave to them.
One might even say that he sticks to his principles in times of crisis: the principle of defending his possessions at any cost. Notice how all that fear of delivering a beating goes away when it’s Arnheid and not two little kids?
@@NoddarappaThe scene is literally about slavery so of course it's surface level to notice that. You can go ahead and analyze slavery and how it relates to the story at a deeper level if that's what you choose but that's not the point I'm making.
The point I'm making is that there's way more to the story, scene, and character of Ketil than just him being a slave owner.
Yukimura writes with way more nuance than that and boiling Ketil's character down to being bad simply because he's a slave owner is a disservice to that writing.
This point is even contradicted later when we have a slave owner who treats his slaves arguably worse than Ketil but isn't considered to be that bad of a guy (in context to the story, not real life)
Edit: Also Ketil doesn't really have "keeping your possessions no matter the cost as a principle". He was fine with letting the kids get away with stealing and didn't even punish the retainers that destroyed his wheat fields. His two biggest driving forces are avoiding conflict and seeming like the "ideal man" but unfortunately those values are based on his weakness rather than his strength
I hate Ketil but goddamn the writing for him and this story is so fucking good man’s whole world crumbled in hours and he’s always been this scared😹 of a man but the only thing he actually has control of is Arnheid he’s to scared to do anything to Canute and his own son but he’s “big and bad” enough to beat a tied up slave!!My man who wrote this story is a GOAT for sure!!
Yeah, Yukimura could have easily wrote Ketil as a stereotypically evil person, but what we got is so much better. "There is no such thing as a good slave owner" and Vinland Saga shows us why. You could see his possessiveness seep in and reveal that his love and kindness was conditional and false all along.
it reminds me a lot of Ousama Ranking...where you never know if you should like or hate a character because they always twist it on you and make it unpredictable so you never know who to be emotionally attached to
Me too
@@GrowingDownUnderI knew I was gonna see a comment about this because I thought the same thing! Unfortunately, I thought that like the last 3-4 episodes were bad 😭
@@Roy-ml5fn yeah I also think vinland saga is heavily influenced from berserk as well I see a lot of similarities with berserk and vinland saga
Comment from the Reddit thread awhile back from /u/TheBatIsI.
Fun fact, that sword Ketil unsheathes with etched markings is an Ulfberht sword, a sort of 'brand-name' sword known for being high quality and expensive.
...But the etchings don't exactly match the sword, meaning that Ketil has a counterfeit Ulfberht sword, which were often common to see.
When this first released in the manga, I remember a lot of people discussing it, and if Yukimura had made a mistake before someone pointed out the possibility that it's intentional and a perfect match for Ketil. Just as Ketil has a fake reputation as a fearless and savage warrior when he's in reality a man who's afraid of fighting, he has a fake Ulfberht sword that tries to pass itself off as the real thing.
Aint reading all that
Fuck ketil!
wow interesting observation!
Damn that's an incredible easter egg
Yukimura really is the GOAT
I love how your cat always knows the right time to comfort you
Few things are more despicable than a coward, like Ketil, who takes out his frustration on someone defenseless.
And vikings are part of those small percentage worse than cowards. That includes thorfinn and thors
@@dordz1021 I believe that not even Thorfinn and Thors considered themselves more worthy than Ketil. Ketil is definitely not the biggest monster we've seen in this story, but just because there's a worse human out there doesn't make beating a pregnant slave any less serious.
@@danreis2434 its doesn't. Ketil is still a horrible and despicable person
@@danreis2434 Thank u.
I’ll never understand people trying to divert the attention from ketil to talk about thorfinn askeladd or thors 😂like we are all aware they all did some terrible shit but the cowardice of ketil strikes something in people who watch
It's easy to be good when life is easy, but hard to be good when life is hard. I love the comparison between Ketil and Thorfinn and how they handle life and its challenges differently
Arnheid's beating is the first time i have watched an anime and had to pause and walk away for a few minutes. That was hard to watch. Was too real.
Fr
Go watch redo of healer
@@dordz1021 have. Trash edgelord show with awful characters. Does not invoke anything close to the same emotions.
@@maizeman90 you build different my guy
@@maizeman90what
Arnheid voiceacting was crazy good. It's really depict the sound of hurt person
Yes your ritht here
14:18 The kids were punished because it would give others the idea that they could get away with theft if the kids went unpunished. Also, Pater was the one who recommended the beating in the first place (which Ketil was visibly uncomfortable with). Ketil also prevented Thorgil from doing it so the kid wouldn't die.
And still not a single good reason to beat a child.
A good leader can convince others of their moral failings and lead by example.
@@Halofreakanoid
1: I agree that the kids shouldn't beaten, but I am alive in 2024 (not 1015 or whatever year it is at this point in VS), with likely thousands of studies on child abuse (and its effects) at my fingertips.
2: Morality is only black and white for people with zero power/authority and people with absolute power/authority. It's a shade of grey for all others (my mind could be changed on this potentially).
3: Whether Ketil was/is a good, moral leader is irrelevant to whether or not those kids were going to steal from him.
@@Halofreakanoidbro do you understand the time period this is taken from this isn’t a modern time things were wayyy harsher then a lil beating
Do you think Thors would’ve allowed two kids to be beaten for stealing?
@@yomama8978 I’ve studies this time period as a hobby for over 15 years.
You don’t need to look at this through a contemporary view of morality, because in all time periods there existed a variety of values and moralities including here. Many people in different places believed slavery was immoral. Not every person believed beating children for thievery to survive was moral.
In this story, Ketil himself does not want to beat the children and thinks it’s wrong. He’d rather they just work for him to pay back what they stole, and then have their own money so they don’t have to steal anymore. This is the *correct* choice.
Regardless, this is meant to be a story we observe through contemporary eyes in order to make us feel a certain way and understand morality and the choices we make today.
There are people who live today that believe beating children is morally correct. There are people today who believe in slavery and oppression.
The most gut wrenching episode for me, I first read this in the manga , and it is even worse watching it in anime. I can't stomach rewatching this ep. Arnheid doesn't deserve all of this. I rarely get emotional when it comes to anime, but this is the first time I am furious over a fictional character.
it’s a really hard watch for sure :(
Yeah, I dreaded watching this episode because I knew what was coming from having read the manga. The soud just makes it even worse. And Mayumi Sako really sells it. It's one of the hardest scenes to watch for me, in any anime.
She didnt know what gardar would do, but she still freed him causing ppl to die.
This is episode is pure pain ):
We have an incredible moment with Thorfinn being gentle, kind and considerate, asking if a non violent and peaceful solution exists, concluding that no one deserves to suffer. I think that we, as viewers, agreed with him genuinely.
Moments later we are confronted by reality. That people like Ketil exist. And they can even be good and nice most of the times.
It's hard to conciliate what we think with what we feel.
Anyways, Alana I'm loving your reactions ❤ the best episodes are still to come.
NOW PEAK BEGINS
Nothing's more despicable than a coward with power
After this episode, I started rooting for Canute to come and take the farm lol
Kanute has done a ton worse than Ketil
The scariest thing isn't just that Ketil did all that. The scariest thing is realising that in real life, a lot of men who are perpetrators of domestic abuse are like Ketil: they come off as decent on the outside, and they may be good to people at work and outside, but behind close doors, they can be the most horrible creatures on earth.
Well, the example is good, but even for the context of the time, Ketil is a bread of God
As someone who first kinda liked Ketil, seeing how we empathized with people that are far worse in season 1, I gotta admit that I hated his guts after this episode. Just horrifying.
I swear to god I just can't wait to see the next EP please we will wait for you 😭
Ketil: a capable and benevolent farmer who supported the lives of hundreds of people, but in deep despair, he severely beat a single slave woman.
Thorfinn: an angry, narrow-minded boy who killed hundreds of people just to duel with Askeladd.
This is why one should not judge people by their own emotions.
I don't think I've ever been as emotionally riled at an anime character before as I was when that mf beat Arnheid. I pummeled my desk out of pure frustration watching this scene.
ahhhhhhhh here we are. I for one thought Ketil was an overall solid guy before this, even if he lacked backbone and so on. But this is certainly a turning point on that.
I think it shows that he truly isn’t a man without a backbone, but an absolute coward because he has a backbone with weak and innocent people.
i do think he think he actually is a solid guy as the Ketil before this point was the real him and from now on its just him suffering through a psychosis because of the stress
...before "this" he still was a rapist.
This episode reminded me of that quote from Joker in The Dark Knight,”All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy.”
People defending ketil is so insane. The man literally has a slave village lmao
Silly comment, that’s how the world worked back then.
They’re also paid wages(that goes to the farm for two years), and given food . They’re also not forced to be there, he gives them an option if they want to join or not.
He’s truly evil in some ways as shown with Arnheid as she has no option and is truly a slave to him. So all of that goes out the window.
The others are more like paid servant’s that can leave if they want in the future. All of them generally say good things about him and all of the slaves problems come from other people like body guards or regular farmers(so you can fault him for not being able to keep them in check)
Your logic is pretty lousy because really there’s not much better out there for these people. You can do what Thors and Leif did but that’s extremely unsustainable(maybe Lief can do it for awhile since he’s a famous merchant).
@@ds1448the first part of the top comments still stands 😂 all these paragraphs for nothing
I was quite surprised when I saw thediscussion after watching the episode.
I just saw a slave owner beat a slave half to death that is pregnant with his child.
Why in the world would I look for a justification for this? lol
pregnancy means anything to people in the west? I thought life starts outside the womb, you a conservative racist or what is going on here?
@@Lost7one L comment. All the way trough. Lmao
I haven't seen anyone justify what he did. They explain the reasoning, the same way people were explaining thorfinns perspective in season 1
@@dordz1021 Then I have seen enough for both of us lol. It's either "*insert character* did worse", "He was at the end of his rope, of course he lashes out" or they even try and blame Arnheid for it. I also saw one who linked it to the attractiveness of the characters that Snake isn't blamed for anything because he's attractive and Ketil gets all the backlash because he doesn't look good enough rofl.
@@FeastForThought i honestly think ketil actions are not justifiable but unlike alot of people(including snake as you mentions) he gets alot of heat for it. Which i do believe he deserves but you dont see this same amount of hatred going to others and i think thats why some peoe are getting frustrated
This episode tells empathy is one thing, but justice is another.
Ketil was a solid man but I see where his madness and evil coming from, well writen, but a crime is a crime.
TLDR; No defense for Ketil's Act, but we can understand the reason behind.
When one has no spine in the first place, it's very easy for one to become unhinged.
To all who would defend ketil:
Empathy is a great thing, but you have to understand that no matter what one has gone through, it does not justify the evil committed.
You can both understand someone why they did what they did, and hold them accountable for their misdeeds. Its called having boundaries.
he is just weak and immature. People defending him doesnt understand what emotions are
I dont see people defending him, they explain his reasoning. He is an evil and despicable person that did a horrible thing just like thorfinn
@@dordz1021 for sure can understand how he’s gotten to this point. but unfortunately yeah I’ve seen the defenders and its bad 🙏🏼
This is a good story telling. You like the character at the time but you'll hate themnother time 😂
What I especially love about the farmland arc is how it debunks the myth of the good slave owner. Ketil is initially set up as such a reasonable and even gentle man that for a second, you may even forget that there isn’t an ethical way of owning people as your personal property, only for the author to unmask him for the abusive scumbag that he is in the climax. Well done yukimura
For a nordik warrior in that era death in battle field is the best gift you can have because Valkyrie might visit you if you prove yourself in battle to lead you to Valhalla.
I don't know if I'm wrong but, regardless of the discussion about who did more horrible things, I interpret this episode as part of the season's message. If this season is about freeing from what makes us slaves, finding the way to redeem ourselves and move forward, we show the opposite with Ketil: a person who, to be the "most liberal slaveholder", is the one who is most enslaved to his "things" (his farm, his false image as an iron fist, Arnheid) to a sickening point that could be considered his only emotional support. And we can see the consequences of maintaining this wrong mentality of clinging too much to something.
But yeah... it is a very painful episode to watch :c
Ketil screamed and yelled about pride and taking his pride but the reality is he never had any.
He's just angry his utter lack of pride is on full display. People are seeing the true him and he knows his true self is pathetic so he just hides in his fury trying to beat respect out of people.
Man, I forgot how hard to watch that Arnheid scene is.
That cat 😭❤️❤️
In the manga she lost her teeth too omg 😢
This is The only episode of Any anime that make me feel like i wasnt watching an anime, feel like i was witnessing a real crime, good edit good diréction,
Real big men in these comments I hope nothing ever happens to your daughters your mothers your sisters your wives and girlfriends and if it does, I hope no one screenshots your comment and sends it to you.
We first meet Ketil - everyone is like he is a "nice" slave owner, now "I hate this man." Ketil's character arc.
this episode gives us understanding of ketil, who is living his life as a lie . a simple lie makes people thinking about how he is a "great warrior" that retired. that is one of the reasons why he brought arnheid so she could be there for him but after just witnessing how she almost ran with her husband his only way and person helping him to escape all lies also cheated on him. the author is so hella incredible about how he wrote this beautiful show! also thanks alana that i can remember what happened in the show by watchin your reactions
Poor Arnheid didn´t deserve this! :( Shows how much circumstances can change someone
Your thumbnail expression says it all
I haven't been able to watch the scene of Ketil assaulting Arnheid since it debuted. It was hard enough to read in the manga and the anime didn't censor it at all. Once is enough for me. I did watch you watching it happen.
I think far too many people confuse defending Ketil for invoking perspective. This story follows a protagonist who is a mass murderer, whose actions have led to the rape, enslavement, and death of dozens to hundreds of people - all in the pursuit of vengeance. Just because many of those happened off screen does not somehow mitigate this.
Ketil is a fraud. A weak man who can not live up to his fantasy version of himself when the going gets tough. He takes out his considerable frustration at the seeming collapse of his entire life on the one person he knows can't do anything about it, and who he also feels betrayed by. Does this make him a shit person by the standards of today? Absolutely. But that was the standard of the time.
It is important to point this out because some will take Ketil's actions as the evilest low that someone can sink to when in fact this was happening every single minute of every single day to countless people, some having done even less to "earn" such treatment than Arnheid. Some who never enjoyed the favoritism or freedom that she did. Some whose masters were infinitely more cruel, vicious, and sadistic than Ketil.
The moral of the story is that slavery sucks no matter how much you dress it up, as when it comes down to it no matter how much Ketil loves Arnheid, she is still a slave in his eyes and thus his property. And it is much easier to take out your rage on your property than the mother of your child.
I think Ketil is a very realistic character. Someone who tries to be better than the average, but ultimately is too weak to hold to those values when things get hard.
At first glance, Ketil seems like a very kind and gentle man. That is correct. However, his true nature is cowardly, prideful, and self-centered.
Ketil also said she could not believe that her violent eldest son was her son. But yes, the eldest son was definitely his son who inherited another essence of Ketil.
At first glance, Gulzar and Ketil seem to have contradictory qualities. However, the two have something in common. He is fundamentally arrogant and does not understand the true meaning of "kindness."And they became obsessed with more wealth and power than they needed, and they destroyed themselves.
The realistic character settings and depictions in this anime are truly amazing.
His kindness was born from weakness and cowardice. “Nice guy.” Not born from strength. With expectations attached. “B-but I bought you a bunch of stuff, why won’t you date me! 🥺”
Askeladd is a likeable and charismatic guy who does horrible things. Ketil is a unlikeable spineless coward who does horrible things. Gee I really wonder why people love Askeladd and hate Ketil? I can’t seem to think of a reason…🤔
When I seen this episode I didn’t really understand why he beat her but maybe there’s a reason as to why he did but I don’t know it
everything just begining 💀💀💀
That's good character writing, Ketil is still maybe a good master with his slaves but when he is tested with something he can't control his true nature as a coward and that whole "Iron Fist Ketil" fraud that he is comes out. A slave owner is still a slave owner, even though the promise that he will always free them if that slave is someone "special and useful" to him, he will not let go.
This season guys...
Not liking violence is good. It isn't something to enjoy or strive for. But fearing violence is a bad thing. There is violence and evil everywhere, and in order to truly navigate the world and get "stronger" you must acknowledge this violence. Ketil spent his whole life running from this fact, constantly in pursuit of more wealth as a way to buy his ticket away from the evil in man. In doing so he was never able to confront the potential evil within himself, thus leading to this moment when pressed against the wall.
I still remember that quote from that priest it just applies to this situation rn. Willibald says what the thing you call love is just discrimination. And that's what you all are doing rn because since you know arnheid more than the other side characters you get touched more when it's about her so you are discriminating towards those innocent people, who got killed by thorfinn or askeladd, if you consider they did not matter as much as arnheid did.
So if we talking about the lowest scums of this anime the answers are obviously obvious.
I'm not protecting ketil tho but the truth needs to be told even if some do not like it
People saying that ketil is Coward but I think Snake is Much Big Coward in series he has a Good in him but he doesn't have a Couarge to Stand agaist ketil and Thorgill just because he Eat there Food so he Close his eyes and still help Bad person like ketil if Arnied didn't Stop Gardar he would Eat snake even thorfin does not have phisicall power to stop Gardar Arnied show Good in her Snake character is same as Karan from Mahabharat
Arnheidt VA he's the best Last season I voated for her
honestly, i was on the "ketil just had a bad day" train. but after actually trying to understand things, yeah he is a horrible person.
Poor girl
Just thinking that Gordan Ramsay would make a good Floki if he played in a live action Vinland Saga
Haha no he wouldn't.
@@MasalaMan yes, look at gordon ramsays face he looks exactly like floki
@@GrowingDownUnder not really
It’s crazy how Canute had forsaken God and went down this dark path while Thorfin is out here trying to figure out how to be Jesus lol
“Defense” is not the same as someone contextualizing Ketil’s actions, and pointing out he faces the same opportunities of redemption that ALL of the characters in the story are offered. I have no problem calling Ketil’s actions immoral the same as I say it is immoral when Askelad orders the extermination of entire village. The message of Vinland Saga is about the hope of the cycle of violence being broken even by Viking culture which glorified violence, but what I find interesting is when audience members exclude that possibility for Ketil.
Nobody is excluding anything, st the time thorfin was Bad then in the future turnos good, askrlad was Bad to thorfin un the future he was good to thorfin, ketil is Bad right now, there is no future still, people can't react to the future kill because doesnt exist, just can react in the right now.
@@mem5860he was not good to thorfinn. He used thorfinn up until his very last moment. Only once he was on deaths door he offered to let thorfinn kill him and not even in the way thorfinn wanted. Askeladd is a horrible person through and through but people tend to side with him closer to the end because its from his perspective and they started liking him
@@dordz1021 ok, i know but i didnt want to write a Lot, so it was quick sentence, because redemption was the Main point ,not their relationship
lmao I feel weird for not totally hating Ketil. I can empathize with him. He's getting his farm taken from him, and Arnheid tries to escape even though he's a "good" master. He's also in love with her which adds to his stress. I'm not saying he's in the right but I think any human under those circumstantial would act as crazy as him.
I mean, NOBODY can excuse Ketil's actions...
But I gotta admit, I would NOT know how to react to his situation.
dont forget ep18.5 from mappa channel.
I mean, even the nicest guy in the world might went deep down when he/she breakdown and stuck like don't know what to do
There's nothing more dangerous than a weak man trying to make a show of strength. And that's what Ketil is.
I think the “defending Ketil” stuff was more just a reflection on this show. I’ll start by saying Ketil is indeed horrible, I’m on board with you guys. If I remember right, the point people were making was that Thorfinn killing the amount of people he has is way worse than what Ketil did and Thorfinn still found a road to redemption, so they were defending Ketil’s chance for redemption. Personally he’s horrible in my eyes until proven otherwise, if he decides to redeem himself and atone as Thorfinn did then it’s up for debate, but until we see that, defending his possibility of redemption seems like giving him too much, as he currently is inarguably a monster.
I don't personally "hate" Ketil. He's a slaveowner, that's just how people were back then. And we know relatively speaking he's one of the more better ones. The Vikings did far worse.
Ketil had the worse character development, while his son had one of the best.
The only episode I skip when rewatching Vinland, having to watch and listen to Arnheid get beaten to death is probably the worst thing ive watched in a while.
Theres more gory thing but the beating is so personal and thats what makes it so hard to watch
I was 50-50 with ketil before this ep dropped cause he was chill and all that but after this episode dropped i hated this bum ever since
Honestly anime needs more female characters like Arnheid 💜
Writing so good. I hate this man so much even though by all accounts, people like Askeladd, Thorkell, Thorfinn, and Canute have done way waaay worse than this.
(Spoiler) Here's a HOT TAKE! - Seeing this episode truly makes us hate Ketil but he is just a coward he's never killed anyone so far, the world around him is crushing down upon him and he's eaten by his rage resulting in war with the king which could have been avoided by negotiation. Now who are we to judge him, in retrospect Thorfinn was far worst. In episode 23 we see Ketil in grief just as Thorfinn in episode 8 (empty). Im not saying that Ketil shoud be forgiven but HATE is a strong sentiment. That's not VINLAND SAGA is about.
Hate is fine. That's a personal emotion. But it's wrong to see him as irredeemable
You should watch 'Berserk 1997' next.
We defend ketil cause we understand the facts what lead to this, we dont ignore that like most reactors.. What ketil did is wrong and there no excuses for it all.. We seen the devil come out of a human from what transpired in these recent episodes.. But ignoring those facts and not understanding what turns a human into the devil is just as bad as what ketil did cause a person chose to ignore those facts and not acknowledge them.. Hopefully people learn from this but I understand its difficult for some people and thats life..
farmland saga
😢😢
Ahh, I see
I disagree. Arnid did nothing wrong. Kettle is a slave to woman that dont want him. his own wife is old and not young, if you enslave someone whatever happens is on you. let that girl go. to be with the people she cares about. kettle is an animal
Kinda wish they had SOME kind of reunion with Leif and Thorfinn. Wish all the build up on Leif looking for him, was a letdown when they just skipped over the part they saw each other again
The author said he didn’t feel comfortable writing a wholesome reunion after what had just happened to Arnheid
@@miguelramos5943 I know he said that, doesnt mean I agree with it. They were building it up so much, I would have been happy with SOMETHING.
SAME I WAS SO UPSET!!😂At least let them see each other before that then we go to her getting beat
Turns out there's a bigger priority of them pointing their attention to one of their friends who's just been beaten up, besides Thorfinn and Leif had already had the heartfelt re-encounter years before
But they did in the next episode... Just lost momentum with Arnheid situation.
I hate this show😭😭 Have been saying this since season 1 but still watching 😭😭
@On.AlanaMisako1 What kind the scam is this??😂
Fixing her make up just to cry again, i see
I Love You Alana
😹
Ketil had a psycotic breakdown, the guy was a saint up until that point, during this psychotic episode he beat someone (he was not trying to kill). Askeladd did bad things too but we loved him.
He definitely wasn’t a saint up until this point. I mean he’s literally a slave owner lol.
@@TheAfricanGrey a slave owner that treat his slaves well... That's why he doesn't understand why would arnheid try to escape, which is understandable
you have to judge him by the standards of that era imo @@TheAfricanGrey
I mean we can argue back and forth whether he was the lesser evil of slave traders but he definitely wasn't a saint.
A saint wouldn't brutally beat a child to make himself seem like the ideal man
the law of the land demanded a harsher punishment for stealing, he just wanted to let the kid go free but if you watch that episode he was not strong enough to do that, he even commits to beating the child so that Thorgil would not hurt him too badly.
You dont have to nitpick because I said "saint" it was a bit hyperbolic, yes. Ketil was a good fellow who had a psychotic episode, he even has a flashback to his earlier great love that was taken from him during the beating.
He will regret this singular vile crime for the rest of his miserable life.
@@Ash_Wen-li
Everyone hates ketil now and that’s the bs I talk about
When you have a ‘’favorite’’ character you just ignore everything bad everyone loves Askeladd and that guy did a lot worst things that ketil
I mean a hate ketil but at least I’m consequent
Gigachad Ketil
I'm not here to argue that Ketil is a good guy. For me he is just another guy in the story, better than 90 percent of the cast even.
What did he do? Beating a child who is a thieve, and beating a slave woman half to death? That is like vanilla, boys. Thorfinn and Thors killed like a thousand mofos and not a single soul is complaining. Let that sink in. Killing is the most heinous crime known to man. It's final, the victims can't ever recover from getting killed. They killed thousands.
Again, I'm not defending the guy. I'm just pointing out that you all are not looking at thing logically, which is fine really. Just want to let you know.
The way the human brain works is we feel more anger and empathy towards the character we know and like/hate. Yes thorfinn and askellad had killed a bunch of people but we didn't know anything about them meanwhile arnheid is such a sweet soul she doesn't wana hurt anyone and is caring seeing someone like her get beaten makes you sad and angry towards ketil that's just how our brain works.
Correct. Like the priest said, discrimination to those we love.
@averagegamer4346
Then fix ur brain what you saying is not applied to everybody.
And I still remember that quote from that priest it just applies to this situation rn. Willibald says what you call love is just discrimination. And that's what you are doing rn because since you know arnheid more than the other side characters you get touched more when it's about her so you are discriminating towards the other innocent people, who got killed by thorfinn or askeladd, if you consider they did not matter as much as arnheid did.
He didn’t just beat her half to death tho. She died of the injuries he gave her. He killed her. He’s a murderer just like a majority of the other characters in this show. He’s a liar and a coward and a slave owner. He’s just an overall horrible person. He’s not any better than Thorfinn or Askeladd.
@@lawsennin6806 i never said i didnt care for all the people thorfinn killed. It is a bad thing there is no denying it. I just pointed out that people knew arnheid more and her beatdown was very well animated as well so naturally people felt more empathetic. As my take on who is better thorfinn or ketil I would say thorfinn because he is now on the path of redemption and whoever admits they were horrible in the past and tries to better themselves I see it as a W.
day93 requesting to watch anohana😊😊😊
Daily reminder that ketil is a horrible person but askeladd is worse and thorfinn has done worse things in the past
ketil is just an human, he is much more human than thorfinn and Knut
What really boggles my mind is how people can see that circumstances completely broke a man, driving him to a despicable act and yet call him evil and hate on him, meanwhile people watch a genocidal psychopath kill millions of innocent people and are like, "Awww, poor Eren. What a hero."
I agree more or less with Ketil, he is just another character, it is not to hate him, since he did less damage to the world than Thorfin, Thors or Askelaad, who killed entire families and everything else under his orders. But about Eren? It is separate, since it is another story, in addition to the same way as those who support Ketil, or support Eren, or any character who did bad things, (Thorffin gave it to him because he will be a child), but it still does not deserve I'm sorry for your sins (I took countless lives) those types of people are very bad.
Yeah, Eren did what he did, but "hero" definitely isn't the word for him. Some people just summarize that he did it to save his friends, but there was a deeper part of him that wanted the rumbling to see the freedom he was itching for, he outright says this in the finale. lol
@@raec5426 He was still essentially portrayed as the hero of the story by Isayama (even though he accomplished absolutely nothing and showed zero remorse, while being totally self-absorbed) and all his friends conveniently decided to turn a blind eye to the genocide, making them just as morally culpable.
Basically it seems to me that Isayama himself must be a sociopath with absolutely no sense of ethics to have written that ending (nevermind all its other massive flaws). Also the vast majority of fans seem to be nothing but sympathetic to Eren, which is just staggering to me.
Ketil is HIM!
The fuck you talking about?
HIM stands for Horrible Irredeemable Monster right? Yeah then he’s definitely HIM!
It's just an anime guys no need to get this mad over fictional characters lmao😂.
Well stories evoke emotion. Authors usually wants us to feel things. It's fine to feel something as long as you can appropriately separate fiction enough from reality.
Keitl has the right to destroy his property. Lol
To be honest, I don't feel sorry for Arnheid at all. She freed Gardar, who immediately killed a man, and who knows how many more he would have killed and what he did. Then she dragged Torfin and Einar into it all. And with all these actions, she constantly put her child in danger. Only Torfin and Einar need to be pitied here, they are the real victims of all these squabbles.
Bro watch solo levlinv