.... you know where is the difference? Canute KNEW the consequences of his actions and accepted it. He KNOWS he is not a good man...he just believe the end (his utopia) justify the means. So he is ready to shoulder his actions. Ketil on the other end... well😐😬
Canute is a utilitarian like Askeladd who will stop at nothing to achieve his goal. On paper, they both did an act of crime, but you can make an argument for Canute that his goal would've benefitted probably millions of people if it came true. Also, the fact that Canute doesn't act out of impulse and completely understands how wrong he is, but he needs to do it anyway.
What's interesting is that it was Sverkel's story about Ketil that convinced Arnheid to go after Gardar, which brought her into the situation where Ketil would feel betrayed. It's sad that Svelkel, a good person trying to do good, truly creates the man his son becomes, who's truly a broken man. None of this is to excuse Ketils actions, he still bares all the responsibility for his own actions, just am thinking about how Svelkel might be feeling like
As much as I understand that having your literal entire life’s work being ripped from you for no reason would cause a lot of mental anguish, there is literally no excuse for what Ketil did.
Yeah a mentally stable person wouldn't have reacted this way to "out of your control" circumstances as Ketil has. This is what makes him weak and the fact so many people miss this as it is the entire focus of his character is infuriating personally. As someone who essentially had to realize (as an adult as well) that I hadn't done the inner personal work that my peers had and that it made me volatile and basically a time bomb waiting to explode and has been putting in the work to rectify that it is just a little disheartening for the conversation about this to be about the surface level of this particular plot point (that slavery is wrong) and not digging deeper into the layered reasons that brought these people together, at this place, at this time and these events happened. This is mostly about Ketil and his lack of character or inner strength being what makes him weak and also someone that'll cause a lot more harm and destruction than he will do good or produce or even thinking logically and rationally.
@@projectomnia1997 "a mentally stable person wouldn't have reacted" are you sure about that? Everyone has their breaking point, including "mentally stable" people. You can turn anyone into a monster given the right circumstances. However, a bad mental state does not excuse bad actions. The same way how being drunk or high doesn't excuse bad actions.
He's a coward man, it's the core of his personality. And it's not about him being kind-hearted and soft with some people, but the fact that he simply lies about who he is for status and throws his anger into weaker people when things get bad for him.
@@CelestialLimbo it is the exception not the rule try to avoid logic fallacies as retorts. Generally those who are mentally stable will not snap due to circumstances even those that directly negatively impact themselves. They may ACT but they will usually do so in a tempered way to make the most sane decision. Now when you're mentally unstable, this means your raw human instincts and impulses control you and a shattering of your false sense of security that you've insulated yourself with then happens which is usually the "trigger" but that person was always that person this was always where the person who doesn't do the inner personal work will go. At it's least tame it'll only negatively impact that individual in terms of the scale of destruction this brings, however in a case of someone like Ketil it is much more destructive. With all this land, all these other people he's responsible for, his family, his slaves and all these other variables don't even register to him at this moment as anything more than "my things" which equates to his "security" and sense of "self" Like we have tons of writings about this, super well known ones like that of Nietzsche and Jung. Ketil is absolutely a representation of an individual who wasn't incapable of doing this inner personal work, he pathetically and actively fled from it and this is the result. That is objective fact and this is why he is weak and should not really be sympathized with but more seen as a lesson to all humans because I'd say we have more people like this now than we ever have and that's dangerous for us.
Both Thorfinn and Canute are 22 years old at this point of the story, with Thorfinn being 6 months older than the latter (Thorfinn was born on February, while Canute was born on July)
This episode was interesting cuz it reminded me of season one episode 14 when askeladd pillaged and murdered that entire village. It was a reminder that these people are capable of truly evil deeds. Regardless of how charismatic or nice the person looks. Askeladd would kill whoever it is to reach his goals. Even with Ketil on a regular day would sympathize with people like the two kids that stole from him multiple times. Yet with his emotions were already heighten from the potential loss of his farm, livelihood and then arnheid he snapped. When a person hits their breaking point they can be unpredictable. Plus his wife reminding him to pushing her properly definitely sewed the seeds of violence in his mind as well. Even the guests thought he would be soft on her which he probably would on a regular day
not "these people". all people are capable of great evil. you just need the right circumstances and emotional events could lead even you to do great evils. thinking otherwise is arrogant and deluded imo. but you're right, there are so many facotrs to ketil snapping and people just triyng to say "no he's evil" is so frustrating.
@@ElDragow you’re right, “all people” for sure! I mainly said “these people” since I was focusing on Askeladd and Ketil. It surprising how quick people condemned Ketil for his decision while being only disappointed with Askeladd’s but still rooted for him. I wonder what its the difference between these actions that caused such an instant reaction for people towards Ketil
Im guessing what Sam was trying to say is that Ketil is practically going through a psychosis right now which means logic and humantiy goes straight out of the window, it doesnt make it right but its just whats happening.
It's not psychosis. He is just taking everything out on Arnheid because he knows he can do it, since he's her slave master and even people like Snake will tell him that he has the right to kill her, which is how Vinland Saga shows how terrible slavery is (imagine another person owns you and can on a whim decide to beat you maybe even to death). He's just a pathetic and weak man. It's easy to be nice when things are going well for him but your actual character comes out the second things start to crumble around him. Einar, Thorfinn and Arnheid lost EVERYTHING and yet they are currently among the most kindhearted people on the farm. Ketil is the one trying to hold on to his wealth even though subconsciously he knows he can never defeat the king and that makes him angry because he has no control over that situation and an easy way for him to feel like he has control over something in his life is to beat up his pregant slave, which is honestly the most despicable thing I believe any character does in Vinland Saga.
@@Regenmacher175 "he is just taking everything out on Arnheid because he can". Incorrect. He is very clearly going crazy. Almost no one is innocent or truly "good" in Vinland saga. If you think what Ketil did is the most despicable, then you should check out Askeladd and Thorfins list of sins.
@@Lone1Wolf8 No I am very much correct on this because he at one point starts ranting about how everyone's a thief and he'll punish them...as he's beating Arnheid. That means he's thinking about Canute as he is beating Arnheid. He is quite literally taking his anger and frustration over the king requisitioning his farm out on her because he can...because she's his slave and he thinks that this means he gets to treat her however he wants without anyone else being able to object. Oh Askeladd can rot in hell for all I care. Thorfinn at least knows what he did was despicable and says he needs to atone for his terrible crimes.
@@Regenmacher175 My argument was that he isn't beating her because "oh I can do it because she my slave" which is what I was saying is incorrect. Everyone thought he would go easy on her because he normally does. We can clearly see how he normally is with multiple people, slaves included. But he's going crazy. When he said "thieves" he's referring to everything everyone has taken from him, including the girl he loved that was traded off and killed. None of this is me defending his actions, just me understanding what all he has gone through and the reasons that led up to this moment. My stance still stands that his crime list, as far as we know, is less than most characters we see. Even Canute is starting to build his own crime list .
i mean, she free'd someone who went on to murder people technically speaking she's still a criminal Yea they were assholes but it still went down.But still pretty facked to say the least.
It's funny how the same ppl that shit on Ketil, also defend Asklaid like he was a saint just because he was great written character. I think both are messed up individuals but can understand why and enjoy both, knowing their trama.
Ketils a pussy for what he did Askeladd is a guy who does what he has to do but hates himself for it it’s not like he enjoyed doing thinks he did he looked at is as the greater good there’s a huge difference
if people are objectively about it, Ketil might be one of the most morally good characters considering the time period and him being a wealthy guy. he could have been an absolutely disgusting slave onwenr. But he's clearly a good person who treated his slaves well and even gives themthe chance to be free. he literally has no reason to do that. So when you feel you've been good all your life, yet you're about to lose everything for no reason, only for people to call you evil is kinda funny to me when the people they cheer on are actual vikings.
@@ElDragow I hear "they are slave owners so evil" but what about the ppl who were involved in wiping out whole villages and selling off the village ppl as slaves? Like you said, Ketil didn't have to be as good as he was, not that he was perfect, but I mean look who he's surrounded by lol. Crazy vikings
@@Lone1Wolf8 he didn't have to be a slave owner either. And being nice isn't being good. People are mistaking being a coward for being nice. He is a lying bum that uses arnheid as his sex comfort slave toy he is not nice and it deosn't matter how nice you think he is if he was really nice he would have set arnheid free. Instead of treat her like his object of desires to mess around with while knowing she is a slave with no choice.
@@ElDragow no a good person lets a slave go not have sex with them and use them as their toy and then be surprised when they wanna be free again. Stop with the oh at least he is a good slave owner nonsense. *Slavery is slavery its not about how nice you are its about human having no free will are you people retarded what is wrong with you*
Lmao I never seen Morgan hate another character as much as she hate Ketil. 😂🤣😭 also, FYI you’re going to get a lot of comments they may seem like they’re defending Ketil, they’re not. They’re just seeing it from his point of view. He’s a fantastic character, but a terrible person. Torn between trying to be a fair working man and being a Norse man. He’s definitely projecting his ex onto Arnhied. And just like he unfairly lost her he doesn’t want to lose another one, even though he doesn’t see the difference between the relationship dynamic. He fell in love with a slave who has no choice, but to do what he says. No matter how kind he treats her, he has her against her will. He was just a pot waiting to boil over. I think his father also seen that, which is why he tried to get her out of there.
He didnt fell in love for shit. Stop romanticizing abuse. Hes OBSESSED with Arnheid he is NOT in love with her. Being in love would have mean stop treating her like AN OBJECT... and Ketil NEVER DID THAT
@@marti9734 that was the contradictive dynamic of what was going on. 🤦🏾♂️ get out of your emotions and see the story for what it is. Nobody romanticized abuse, go figure slaves were seen as property. Like I said, he projected his ex onto Arnhied and fell in love with her, or rather his idea of her. People who don’t have emotional control/intelligence tend to be the ones who become obsessive when they do fall in love. He was split between who he was as a person and being a product of his environment (being a Norseman). He put his entire sanity on her which was bound to lead to this.
I don't think this is Ketil showing his true colors, but him becoming a more vicious person due to trauma. Not trying to justify his actions, just addressing his character evolution.
It's because we are in an era where "nice" ppl are seen as hidden evil ppl. It's like ppl find joy seeing a nice person break. Ppl should know that everyone has a breaking point.
@@Lone1Wolf8 yes. I always say "there is good in bad, and even more important there is bad in the good" It is just not as black and white as some see it. "he is a bad person" "he is a good person". It sadly is just not that easy!
Even on his best days, Ketil had no intention of ever freeing Arnheid. This was made clear before. He's a weak man who's so dependent on a woman who can't truly consent to the relationship she had with him that he can never let her go.
@@HorseandHattock That doesn't really contradict my statement... and who is strong then? Someone like Thorgil? Who wanted to beat a child to death and who cares about nothing but killing? Certainly nothing weak about him. Ketil's vulnerability is what made him empathetic to the suffering of others, and capable of love and understanding of beauty. Do you remember Ketil's backstory, as told by his father? He was in love with a woman who resembled Arnheid, and she loved him back. Some powerful dude wanted her and threatened war. Ketil was fully prepared to go to war for her. But his father gave her away. And then she died. This instilled a traumatic fear of loss, of letting go, of being taken from (hence "iron fist", because he holds on to things with an iron fist - he'd abandon his own humanity before letting go) and of violence in Ketil. You never SAW Ketil on his best days. And you're taking a moral high ground you never earned to stand on. And I believe you are completely blind to the meaning of Vinland Saga.
@@Ynox54321 Still Ketil never loved Arnheid. What he has is SICK OBSESSION. He always treated her like an OBJECT for his own pleasure and relief nothing more. I dont care about his traumas. He became a hell of a MONSTER. Arnheid HAS TRAUMAS, more than Ketil could dream of and she didnt become a shit woman. Beating a fucking PREGNANT WOMAN... you sure must be sick in the head and no trauma equal the shit he did
@@Ynox54321people watch the show with modern morals till they start likng a character, evrey one likes thorkel as a strong honorablewarrior but thorgil is a pshycho even tho they have the same beliefs. Askalad, thorfhin and most probably thors have done way worse shit, we just think that them murdering civilians and burning down villiges is a sign that they are strong people with great goal becuse they are the main characters.
It’s crazy how some people in the comments can’t understand slavery in any era is bad an even tho somthn was normalized doesn’t mean it was ever morally right ketil was morally wrong even tho he was in a era where it was normal to hav slaves it’s the same as in American slavery some slave owners were much nicer than others that does not mean that slave owner ever considered black people as equal or even people.
Big shout out to Sam, for seeing Snake has the dutiful and honorable man he is. For better worse. You can tale beneath his aloof demeanor, that he cares about Thorfinn, Einar and Arnheid. But his personal code of ethics binds him to Ketil. Big props to Sam for seeing and saying that about Snake.
Honorable? Dude executed a heavily wounded unconscious slave. He also fought Thorfinn while the latter was unarmed too. He's not honorable. What makes him stay and fight for Ketil is his pride most of all. He didn't save Arnheid because he thought the flogging was overboard, he saved her because Ketil obviously did not intend to cause such damage, as evidenced by his "treat her wounds pater".
That's definitely something many forget about. Even Thorfinn has done much worse than what Ketil did here. I think Ketil has more impact because we actually see it happen though.
Canute kills his own brother, Askeladd kills god knows how many families. Its funny when you put it all into perspective, Ketil is far from a bad man of the time.
@@StickManVS Except everyone who understands Vinland Saga understands that what Canute and Askeladd did was terrible and that it is important to recognise that. The story itself says that what Thorfinn did was awful because it has him say that he needs to atone for all the terrible things he did. But Thorfinn made the conscious decision to try to redeem himself. Neither Ketil, nor Canute, nor Askeladd have made that decision. That's the difference.
I want to give credit to Sam around 19:33 for noting that "Snake" is a "dutiful man". My mind was thoroughly blown that Sam even knew of a notion/concept like that. so credit to Sam where credit is due.
Ketil was afraid of war and violence not bc of the goodness of his heart, but bc he's a COWARD. She showed him kindness and he nearly killed her and the baby 😞
@@StickManVS And he still beat that kid just so he would not seem weak in front of the people who work for him, all while thinking that the kids are to blame for making him punish them like this, as if he didn't have a choice in the matter. He's such a pathetic POS.
Not trying to defend Ketil at al. So before any sub zero IQ individual decides to say thats what i'm doing, spare yoursefl the effort. Saying (like i do) that the thing Ketil did was disgusting and vile is fair. But to act like you don't understand why he's acting that way is pretty stupid. Again, not saying he was right, but Ketil is literally about to lose everything to one of the most powerfull people in the world coming after him. Only to return home and discovering the last person he trusted being vulnerable around was trying to escape from him. So again, for the last time in case some derps still don't get it, but the things he did are disgusting, but pretending you don't understand where it came from is just you being dishonest imo. Also this isn't a comment towards the girls because Sam immediately could piece it together, it's more so to some of commentors pretending they're morally superior being who'd never do something like that if placed in the same situation and raised int he same era. So dumb.
omg I sometimes fear I am alone with my thinking these times haha. but when I see logical and understanding people like you I am happy again. litterally my thoughts, not to this matter only, I had them on other subjects too. thank god I am not special and we have people thinking alike. :) keep it up lad wishing you the best.
Arnheid was resigned to living on the farm with Ketil and raising their child. Once Gardar came back for her, she started to believe that they could run away and start over. So, she really had no desire to leave Ketil until all that drama. Also, I don't know if Snake really cares that much for Arnheid. This is more so speculation, but I think he just recognized that Ketil was being overtly cruel to his favorite slave, whom he never harmed or punished. He saw that she would'vd died if he continued and stopped him from doing something he might regret.
You have to ask yourself though, would she have ever willingly slept with Ketil had she not been his slave? The answer is no. She didn’t love him. She was trying to make the best of her current situation by staying on the farm and raising her baby, but she still didn’t truly have the free will to make her own decision before her husband came back for her
I get that you hate him, but he is still better than 99% of slave owners so it's a bit overblown. She had a pretty good life for a slave, obviously terrible for a free woman, but it's not like arranged marriage wasn't a thing back then anyway
loved the reaction I also love the depiction of ketil from changing from a weak man to a heinous man and how thorffin and Leif reunion wasn't a main focus because whats its important is the tragedy of arnheid
To paraphrase the joker in the killing joke, "a bad day can make a good man mad" I agree that what Ketil did is unforgivable, a horrible act that cannot be justified, but at least you understand what were the events that led him to the abyss, maybe it's wrong of me to say it but I feel a little bad for Ketil. He lost everything, including himself.
Dude, he owned slaves and forced one of them to have sex with him and made it clear she would NEVER be free. He's not a good man by the time he gets angry at her and beats her.
Yeah a good person would just let people roam free in a place with a whole different language so they can just go get a job app somewhere and people will treat them great😂
The "slave owner" argument doesn't work in that situation. Owning slaves was something common in that period, we can't say someone is bad for having slaves back then.
@@JalimRabeikkkkk it being common doesn't excuse getting murdered in vinland saga doesn't matter tho people still get upset. Same thing here in some places gettjng robbed is common that doesn't make it okay tho please use your brain. also him taking a slave is his own choice cut the bullshit excuses
@@kingofheroes1096 Don't forget the but if somebody else took them they would've had it worse argument as if that matters slavery is still slavery how much better treatement is doesn't matter you still have no freedom.
@@solgoodguy577 I mean his true colors were already out if he really cared about her then he would have set her free, that's just the fact of the matter. He cared for her but not as a human not as a lover especially since he has a wife, but as his cushion of comfort that will do everything he wants. As he proceeds to sleep with her knowing she doesn't really have a choice in the matter.
When you trust someone so much and got betrayed, that feeling is very suck and too hard to handle, what ketil did i think most people will do the same, even me or may be not, but such a waste, she is beautiful lady and useful
@RAMI I get it. Canute murdered his brother and everyone else that was in his way of becoming king but I'm simply saying Keitl should get what he deserves, especially for his deplorable treatment of Arnheid and I will add that hopefully Canute will get what he deserves as well from whoever, Snake, Thorfinn, Thorgil, and so on. I'd take seeing Canute getting killed by Weasel and be happy
I’m glad you hate Ketil & what he did, not likes some people who defend him. Remember when Thorfin talks to Einar about vikings who always love to war and that’s normal thing for them and then Thorfin realizes that that’s not a good thing and he wants to change and doesn’t care about being a viking anymore. it’s not about the slavery is a normal thing in that time period but the slavery is a bad thing in the first place, what considered normal doesn’t mean it is a good thing thats the point that they try to tells
What is highlighted here has very little to do with the institution of slavery itself and it's inherent wrongs but in the faulty logic of those who run from "responsibility to one's self".
Tldr. The scene is less about slavery bad and more about how Ketil is a coward who retreats to his fantasy's. And one those fantasy's are broken then he snaps.
Askeladd group with their uncle had slaves. Canute has. Yilva wanted to have slaves. Only a few were as illuminated like Thors. Everyone who has an iPhone supports and normalizes slavery in this day an age. So there isn't much difference if you had the money back then
@@ThatFuckinGame -Everyone who has an iPhone supports and normalizes slavery in this day an age.- Ummm nooo sure if you have a phone you can say you indirectly supported child labor and shit overwork. But not slavery, slavery is something different then forced labor its similair but not the same thing. Iphones people were just child forced labor for probably a bad pay. Being an actual slave is you just being owned there is no pay at all. You don't get paid at all its worse and not quite the same.
She’s a Slave!!! No one who has a slave is good, he just did what he needed to do as a Slave owner, understading this, it was a terrible thing to do. She didn’t ask to be in that position.
The "slave owner" argument doesn't work in that situation. Owning slaves was something common in that period, we can't say someone is bad for owning slaves back then. Is it really that hard to understand? 🤦♂️🤦♂️
@@JalimRabeikkkkk-argument doesn't work in that situation.- Yes it does stop making excuses. because its common doesn't excuse you because him buying arnheid and just using as a sex toy isn't Forced upon him THAT IS A CHOICE. A lot of things were common in the past and we still look down upon those behaviors that is a dumb argument. He chose to buy arnheid he chose to own her and then sleep with her several time he chose to use her as a sextoy. Saying because its common its okay is stupid. *Like common my ass him owning slave is still something he CHOSE TO DO nobody forced him to use arnheid as his sex comfort toy so stop with the baby excuses* We are allowed to judge him based of his decissions it doesn't matter if its common not buying a slave is also a option you aren't forced buy a slave in vinland saga so that is a dumb excuse. Hitler making the germans hate jews made hating jews common in germany that doesn't mean we don't look back at that in disgust thats a dumb argument.
@@ElDragow I know There’s a lot more Deep context behind his actions, he felt betrayed by her, I just say that if someone owns slaves you can’t be surprised if at some point that person takes negative actions against his slaves.
It’d be really weird to have a happy reunion minutes after watching thorfinn’s friend almost beaten to death. Arnheids beating is supposed to overshadow that moment
people need to understand ketils situation, the dude did nothing wrong but still faith wants him wrong, he snap hes just human any person would snap too
You’re a clown. I find it funny how readily people adopt the perspective of a wealthy slave owner rather than the person enslaved. Arnheid’s a human too.
People are wired to react much more to negative things than positive. When he hits Arnheid everybody forgets they thought of him kind when he wanted to spare the kids from punishment.
i can completely understand the rage ketil had. of course killing her went too far but as snake said: she is his slave and he had the right to do whatever he wants.
*shown his true colors* bruh he's a SLAVE OWNER, he was a terrible person from day one lol plus this series is about vikings... women in this era barely had a say in almost zero to nothing. it's fucked up what he did not saying I'm defending his actions but what did yall expect? a happy ending being with a slave owner? she still was the reason 5 if not more of snake's men were killed. and knowing the mess she caused her trying to escape wasn't the only reason he snapped but yeah good reaction nonetheless.
Girl who saying "thayre all same" you want to think we are all same in your inner delusion but Autor gived you thousends clues who Ketil rly is, a coward who cry to a woman, cant raise a son, fake iron fist, dumb man who attacked Caunte and more.. Nothing to be suprised, we are all frustrated with that part of story But we have to go along with it So next time when you chose man look for clues, is he soft inside like Ketil.. Than you wont say thayre all same... At least you might learn something
Ketil vs Canute is not a case of good vs evil.
Canute killing his own brother to me was just as heinous.
Yeah the big difference is more that Canute justifies what he does with the whole "I do these things for the good of the dream" 😅
.... you know where is the difference?
Canute KNEW the consequences of his actions and accepted it. He KNOWS he is not a good man...he just believe the end (his utopia) justify the means. So he is ready to shoulder his actions. Ketil on the other end... well😐😬
@@marti9734 1st degree vs 2nd degree murder kinda feel. (Although Arnheid didn’t die, you get what I mean.)
Canute is a utilitarian like Askeladd who will stop at nothing to achieve his goal. On paper, they both did an act of crime, but you can make an argument for Canute that his goal would've benefitted probably millions of people if it came true. Also, the fact that Canute doesn't act out of impulse and completely understands how wrong he is, but he needs to do it anyway.
@@joeldavis8234 want spoiler fam?
What's interesting is that it was Sverkel's story about Ketil that convinced Arnheid to go after Gardar, which brought her into the situation where Ketil would feel betrayed. It's sad that Svelkel, a good person trying to do good, truly creates the man his son becomes, who's truly a broken man. None of this is to excuse Ketils actions, he still bares all the responsibility for his own actions, just am thinking about how Svelkel might be feeling like
Arnheid was going to heal Gardar's wounds anyway. So it wasn't Sverkel fault.
As much as I understand that having your literal entire life’s work being ripped from you for no reason would cause a lot of mental anguish, there is literally no excuse for what Ketil did.
Yeah a mentally stable person wouldn't have reacted this way to "out of your control" circumstances as Ketil has. This is what makes him weak and the fact so many people miss this as it is the entire focus of his character is infuriating personally. As someone who essentially had to realize (as an adult as well) that I hadn't done the inner personal work that my peers had and that it made me volatile and basically a time bomb waiting to explode and has been putting in the work to rectify that it is just a little disheartening for the conversation about this to be about the surface level of this particular plot point (that slavery is wrong) and not digging deeper into the layered reasons that brought these people together, at this place, at this time and these events happened. This is mostly about Ketil and his lack of character or inner strength being what makes him weak and also someone that'll cause a lot more harm and destruction than he will do good or produce or even thinking logically and rationally.
@@projectomnia1997 "a mentally stable person wouldn't have reacted" are you sure about that? Everyone has their breaking point, including "mentally stable" people. You can turn anyone into a monster given the right circumstances. However, a bad mental state does not excuse bad actions. The same way how being drunk or high doesn't excuse bad actions.
This
He's a coward man, it's the core of his personality. And it's not about him being kind-hearted and soft with some people, but the fact that he simply lies about who he is for status and throws his anger into weaker people when things get bad for him.
@@CelestialLimbo it is the exception not the rule try to avoid logic fallacies as retorts. Generally those who are mentally stable will not snap due to circumstances even those that directly negatively impact themselves. They may ACT but they will usually do so in a tempered way to make the most sane decision. Now when you're mentally unstable, this means your raw human instincts and impulses control you and a shattering of your false sense of security that you've insulated yourself with then happens which is usually the "trigger" but that person was always that person this was always where the person who doesn't do the inner personal work will go. At it's least tame it'll only negatively impact that individual in terms of the scale of destruction this brings, however in a case of someone like Ketil it is much more destructive. With all this land, all these other people he's responsible for, his family, his slaves and all these other variables don't even register to him at this moment as anything more than "my things" which equates to his "security" and sense of "self"
Like we have tons of writings about this, super well known ones like that of Nietzsche and Jung. Ketil is absolutely a representation of an individual who wasn't incapable of doing this inner personal work, he pathetically and actively fled from it and this is the result. That is objective fact and this is why he is weak and should not really be sympathized with but more seen as a lesson to all humans because I'd say we have more people like this now than we ever have and that's dangerous for us.
A "nice" slave owner is still a slave owner.
Exactly, a lot of people were saying he's a good person but he's just bad among worse
so he is bad only because he is a slave owner?
@@SargeNuRlmao that's such a terrible attempt at a straw man argument
@@labbetuss great, started a dialogue with an insult. Ahh that beautiful society of the 21st century
@@SargeNuR Yes, slave owners are not good people. this isn't a difficult argument to make
Both Thorfinn and Canute are 22 years old at this point of the story, with Thorfinn being 6 months older than the latter
(Thorfinn was born on February, while Canute was born on July)
nerd
@@Kamaci-t9f Shut up.
@@Kamaci-t9f Danke 😎
This episode was interesting cuz it reminded me of season one episode 14 when askeladd pillaged and murdered that entire village. It was a reminder that these people are capable of truly evil deeds. Regardless of how charismatic or nice the person looks. Askeladd would kill whoever it is to reach his goals. Even with Ketil on a regular day would sympathize with people like the two kids that stole from him multiple times. Yet with his emotions were already heighten from the potential loss of his farm, livelihood and then arnheid he snapped. When a person hits their breaking point they can be unpredictable. Plus his wife reminding him to pushing her properly definitely sewed the seeds of violence in his mind as well. Even the guests thought he would be soft on her which he probably would on a regular day
not "these people". all people are capable of great evil. you just need the right circumstances and emotional events could lead even you to do great evils. thinking otherwise is arrogant and deluded imo. but you're right, there are so many facotrs to ketil snapping and people just triyng to say "no he's evil" is so frustrating.
@@ElDragow you’re right, “all people” for sure! I mainly said “these people” since I was focusing on Askeladd and Ketil. It surprising how quick people condemned Ketil for his decision while being only disappointed with Askeladd’s but still rooted for him. I wonder what its the difference between these actions that caused such an instant reaction for people towards Ketil
Im guessing what Sam was trying to say is that Ketil is practically going through a psychosis right now which means logic and humantiy goes straight out of the window, it doesnt make it right but its just whats happening.
and shes right about that. Ketil is a pathetic and insecure man who is only kind when things are going his way
It's not psychosis. He is just taking everything out on Arnheid because he knows he can do it, since he's her slave master and even people like Snake will tell him that he has the right to kill her, which is how Vinland Saga shows how terrible slavery is (imagine another person owns you and can on a whim decide to beat you maybe even to death). He's just a pathetic and weak man. It's easy to be nice when things are going well for him but your actual character comes out the second things start to crumble around him. Einar, Thorfinn and Arnheid lost EVERYTHING and yet they are currently among the most kindhearted people on the farm. Ketil is the one trying to hold on to his wealth even though subconsciously he knows he can never defeat the king and that makes him angry because he has no control over that situation and an easy way for him to feel like he has control over something in his life is to beat up his pregant slave, which is honestly the most despicable thing I believe any character does in Vinland Saga.
@@Regenmacher175 "he is just taking everything out on Arnheid because he can". Incorrect. He is very clearly going crazy. Almost no one is innocent or truly "good" in Vinland saga. If you think what Ketil did is the most despicable, then you should check out Askeladd and Thorfins list of sins.
@@Lone1Wolf8 No I am very much correct on this because he at one point starts ranting about how everyone's a thief and he'll punish them...as he's beating Arnheid. That means he's thinking about Canute as he is beating Arnheid. He is quite literally taking his anger and frustration over the king requisitioning his farm out on her because he can...because she's his slave and he thinks that this means he gets to treat her however he wants without anyone else being able to object.
Oh Askeladd can rot in hell for all I care. Thorfinn at least knows what he did was despicable and says he needs to atone for his terrible crimes.
@@Regenmacher175 My argument was that he isn't beating her because "oh I can do it because she my slave" which is what I was saying is incorrect. Everyone thought he would go easy on her because he normally does. We can clearly see how he normally is with multiple people, slaves included. But he's going crazy. When he said "thieves" he's referring to everything everyone has taken from him, including the girl he loved that was traded off and killed. None of this is me defending his actions, just me understanding what all he has gone through and the reasons that led up to this moment. My stance still stands that his crime list, as far as we know, is less than most characters we see. Even Canute is starting to build his own crime list .
Great analysis guys, ya ketil snapped. He is losing everything but it doesn’t justify what he did to arnheid
i mean, she free'd someone who went on to murder people technically speaking she's still a criminal Yea they were assholes but it still went down.But still pretty facked to say the least.
@@probablystoned ur an idiot, it still doesnt mean he had to beat her to near death u woman hater
@@probablystoned everyone he murdered was trying to keep him a slave
@@probablystoned why didn't he punish Thorfinn and Einar?
@@flamgirlantquanxi you're right on that one. Ketils delusions tunneled on arnheid
It's funny how the same ppl that shit on Ketil, also defend Asklaid like he was a saint just because he was great written character. I think both are messed up individuals but can understand why and enjoy both, knowing their trama.
Ketils a pussy for what he did Askeladd is a guy who does what he has to do but hates himself for it it’s not like he enjoyed doing thinks he did he looked at is as the greater good there’s a huge difference
if people are objectively about it, Ketil might be one of the most morally good characters considering the time period and him being a wealthy guy. he could have been an absolutely disgusting slave onwenr. But he's clearly a good person who treated his slaves well and even gives themthe chance to be free. he literally has no reason to do that. So when you feel you've been good all your life, yet you're about to lose everything for no reason, only for people to call you evil is kinda funny to me when the people they cheer on are actual vikings.
@@ElDragow I hear "they are slave owners so evil" but what about the ppl who were involved in wiping out whole villages and selling off the village ppl as slaves? Like you said, Ketil didn't have to be as good as he was, not that he was perfect, but I mean look who he's surrounded by lol. Crazy vikings
@@Lone1Wolf8 he didn't have to be a slave owner either. And being nice isn't being good. People are mistaking being a coward for being nice.
He is a lying bum that uses arnheid as his sex comfort slave toy he is not nice and it deosn't matter how nice you think he is if he was really nice he would have set arnheid free.
Instead of treat her like his object of desires to mess around with while knowing she is a slave with no choice.
@@ElDragow no a good person lets a slave go not have sex with them and use them as their toy and then be surprised when they wanna be free again. Stop with the oh at least he is a good slave owner nonsense.
*Slavery is slavery its not about how nice you are its about human having no free will are you people retarded what is wrong with you*
Lmao I never seen Morgan hate another character as much as she hate Ketil. 😂🤣😭 also, FYI you’re going to get a lot of comments they may seem like they’re defending Ketil, they’re not. They’re just seeing it from his point of view.
He’s a fantastic character, but a terrible person. Torn between trying to be a fair working man and being a Norse man. He’s definitely projecting his ex onto Arnhied. And just like he unfairly lost her he doesn’t want to lose another one, even though he doesn’t see the difference between the relationship dynamic. He fell in love with a slave who has no choice, but to do what he says. No matter how kind he treats her, he has her against her will. He was just a pot waiting to boil over. I think his father also seen that, which is why he tried to get her out of there.
He didnt fell in love for shit. Stop romanticizing abuse. Hes OBSESSED with Arnheid he is NOT in love with her. Being in love would have mean stop treating her like AN OBJECT... and Ketil NEVER DID THAT
@@marti9734 that was the contradictive dynamic of what was going on. 🤦🏾♂️ get out of your emotions and see the story for what it is. Nobody romanticized abuse, go figure slaves were seen as property. Like I said, he projected his ex onto Arnhied and fell in love with her, or rather his idea of her. People who don’t have emotional control/intelligence tend to be the ones who become obsessive when they do fall in love. He was split between who he was as a person and being a product of his environment (being a Norseman). He put his entire sanity on her which was bound to lead to this.
@@marti9734jesus at least attempt some critical thought 🥴 your comment just comes off so emotional and irrational.
Such a hard episode to watch.
A very difficult watch
The manga was even harder an I couldn’t even rlly watch this season because of the themes it shows just gna watch the reactions lol
I don't think this is Ketil showing his true colors, but him becoming a more vicious person due to trauma. Not trying to justify his actions, just addressing his character evolution.
you're spot on my friend, sadly people don't have the brain power to think that deep.
It's because we are in an era where "nice" ppl are seen as hidden evil ppl. It's like ppl find joy seeing a nice person break. Ppl should know that everyone has a breaking point.
@@Lone1Wolf8 yes. I always say "there is good in bad, and even more important there is bad in the good" It is just not as black and white as some see it. "he is a bad person" "he is a good person". It sadly is just not that easy!
If only our worst self was our "true" self, then we're all irredeemably evil
Even on his best days, Ketil had no intention of ever freeing Arnheid. This was made clear before. He's a weak man who's so dependent on a woman who can't truly consent to the relationship she had with him that he can never let her go.
@@HorseandHattock That doesn't really contradict my statement... and who is strong then? Someone like Thorgil? Who wanted to beat a child to death and who cares about nothing but killing? Certainly nothing weak about him.
Ketil's vulnerability is what made him empathetic to the suffering of others, and capable of love and understanding of beauty.
Do you remember Ketil's backstory, as told by his father?
He was in love with a woman who resembled Arnheid, and she loved him back.
Some powerful dude wanted her and threatened war.
Ketil was fully prepared to go to war for her.
But his father gave her away.
And then she died.
This instilled a traumatic fear of loss, of letting go, of being taken from (hence "iron fist", because he holds on to things with an iron fist - he'd abandon his own humanity before letting go) and of violence in Ketil.
You never SAW Ketil on his best days.
And you're taking a moral high ground you never earned to stand on.
And I believe you are completely blind to the meaning of Vinland Saga.
@@Ynox54321 Still Ketil never loved Arnheid. What he has is SICK OBSESSION. He always treated her like an OBJECT for his own pleasure and relief nothing more. I dont care about his traumas. He became a hell of a MONSTER.
Arnheid HAS TRAUMAS, more than Ketil could dream of and she didnt become a shit woman.
Beating a fucking PREGNANT WOMAN... you sure must be sick in the head and no trauma equal the shit he did
@@Ynox54321ketil is a loser who deserves nothing, ion care what nobody says
@@Ynox54321people watch the show with modern morals till they start likng a character, evrey one likes thorkel as a strong honorablewarrior but thorgil is a pshycho even tho they have the same beliefs.
Askalad, thorfhin and most probably thors have done way worse shit, we just think that them murdering civilians and burning down villiges is a sign that they are strong people with great goal becuse they are the main characters.
It’s crazy how some people in the comments can’t understand slavery in any era is bad an even tho somthn was normalized doesn’t mean it was ever morally right ketil was morally wrong even tho he was in a era where it was normal to hav slaves it’s the same as in American slavery some slave owners were much nicer than others that does not mean that slave owner ever considered black people as equal or even people.
Big shout out to Sam, for seeing Snake has the dutiful and honorable man he is. For better worse. You can tale beneath his aloof demeanor, that he cares about Thorfinn, Einar and Arnheid. But his personal code of ethics binds him to Ketil. Big props to Sam for seeing and saying that about Snake.
@WOCKHARDT Or your comment inspired my own. It's not that serious. We said the same thing in different ways.
Honorable? Dude executed a heavily wounded unconscious slave. He also fought Thorfinn while the latter was unarmed too. He's not honorable. What makes him stay and fight for Ketil is his pride most of all. He didn't save Arnheid because he thought the flogging was overboard, he saved her because Ketil obviously did not intend to cause such damage, as evidenced by his "treat her wounds pater".
@@Cr0zzle Your right
Idk if i can hate ketil when half the cast are vikings lol
That's definitely something many forget about. Even Thorfinn has done much worse than what Ketil did here. I think Ketil has more impact because we actually see it happen though.
Canute kills his own brother, Askeladd kills god knows how many families. Its funny when you put it all into perspective, Ketil is far from a bad man of the time.
I can’t side for a pussy I guess people are just different🤷🏻♂️😂
@@bdm5014 yup him and canute. I LOVE thorkell and that dudes a full on ax murderer on the battlefield
@@StickManVS Except everyone who understands Vinland Saga understands that what Canute and Askeladd did was terrible and that it is important to recognise that. The story itself says that what Thorfinn did was awful because it has him say that he needs to atone for all the terrible things he did. But Thorfinn made the conscious decision to try to redeem himself. Neither Ketil, nor Canute, nor Askeladd have made that decision. That's the difference.
I want to give credit to Sam around 19:33 for noting that "Snake" is a "dutiful man". My mind was thoroughly blown that Sam even knew of a notion/concept like that. so credit to Sam where credit is due.
Sam is pretty insightful.
Ketil was afraid of war and violence not bc of the goodness of his heart, but bc he's a COWARD.
She showed him kindness and he nearly killed her and the baby 😞
We literally saw he felt bad for those kids and didn't want to hurt them lol.
@@StickManVS And yet, Ketil still did and he didn't have to hurt that boy.
@@dwnkaomwn3953 he did though, were you not paying attention lol
@@StickManVS It's Ketil's farm, whatever he says goes and everyone there should deal with it.
@@StickManVS And he still beat that kid just so he would not seem weak in front of the people who work for him, all while thinking that the kids are to blame for making him punish them like this, as if he didn't have a choice in the matter. He's such a pathetic POS.
3 most genuine girl reactors on youtube
In a way it would be interesting to think about the comparison PADRE vs CANUTE and their relationship with the church/god.
Believe it or not a lot of people online were defending ketil and saying that arnheid deserved it
And those people are trash.
Those people are scumbags.
Not trying to defend Ketil at al. So before any sub zero IQ individual decides to say thats what i'm doing, spare yoursefl the effort. Saying (like i do) that the thing Ketil did was disgusting and vile is fair. But to act like you don't understand why he's acting that way is pretty stupid. Again, not saying he was right, but Ketil is literally about to lose everything to one of the most powerfull people in the world coming after him. Only to return home and discovering the last person he trusted being vulnerable around was trying to escape from him. So again, for the last time in case some derps still don't get it, but the things he did are disgusting, but pretending you don't understand where it came from is just you being dishonest imo. Also this isn't a comment towards the girls because Sam immediately could piece it together, it's more so to some of commentors pretending they're morally superior being who'd never do something like that if placed in the same situation and raised int he same era. So dumb.
omg I sometimes fear I am alone with my thinking these times haha. but when I see logical and understanding people like you I am happy again. litterally my thoughts, not to this matter only, I had them on other subjects too. thank god I am not special and we have people thinking alike. :) keep it up lad wishing you the best.
@@leonard0104 haha, thanks brother. You aswel, appreciate it.
I love you all so much, God bless you and your people, keep being so awesome
The 3 most genuine, locked in, and beautiful reactors on the platform!
🤢
sounding like a real simp lol
Loved that comparison with Bug eyes lmao... but fuck Ketil
from now on, it can just get better, right? 😥
righttt???? 😭
Arnheid was resigned to living on the farm with Ketil and raising their child. Once Gardar came back for her, she started to believe that they could run away and start over. So, she really had no desire to leave Ketil until all that drama.
Also, I don't know if Snake really cares that much for Arnheid. This is more so speculation, but I think he just recognized that Ketil was being overtly cruel to his favorite slave, whom he never harmed or punished. He saw that she would'vd died if he continued and stopped him from doing something he might regret.
You have to ask yourself though, would she have ever willingly slept with Ketil had she not been his slave? The answer is no. She didn’t love him. She was trying to make the best of her current situation by staying on the farm and raising her baby, but she still didn’t truly have the free will to make her own decision before her husband came back for her
I get that you hate him, but he is still better than 99% of slave owners so it's a bit overblown. She had a pretty good life for a slave, obviously terrible for a free woman, but it's not like arranged marriage wasn't a thing back then anyway
Also he has shown multiple times he was a nice person. It's only when romance is involved he snaps since he clearly has issues from his past
loved the reaction I also love the depiction of ketil from changing from a weak man to a heinous man and how thorffin and Leif reunion wasn't a main focus because whats its important is the tragedy of arnheid
To paraphrase the joker in the killing joke, "a bad day can make a good man mad" I agree that what Ketil did is unforgivable, a horrible act that cannot be justified, but at least you understand what were the events that led him to the abyss, maybe it's wrong of me to say it but I feel a little bad for Ketil. He lost everything, including himself.
Dude, he owned slaves and forced one of them to have sex with him and made it clear she would NEVER be free. He's not a good man by the time he gets angry at her and beats her.
you're spot on my friend, never apologize for being a kind person who is capable of seeing what led people to do certain things.
No matter how nice they seem, a slave owner is a slave owner at the end of the day. Good people don't own people.
Yeah a good person would just let people roam free in a place with a whole different language so they can just go get a job app somewhere and people will treat them great😂
@@JessChillN_ Or just not buy them. Slavery is around because there's a market for it.
The "slave owner" argument doesn't work in that situation. Owning slaves was something common in that period, we can't say someone is bad for having slaves back then.
@@JalimRabeikkkkk it being common doesn't excuse getting murdered in vinland saga doesn't matter tho people still get upset.
Same thing here in some places gettjng robbed is common that doesn't make it okay tho please use your brain.
also him taking a slave is his own choice cut the bullshit excuses
Should have let Snake cook. If he got rid of Gardar, Arnheid would still be alive
Can’t wait for the losers who defend Ketils actions to arrive
"Bbb-but you don't understand" "the time period was different"
I quit literally hate the Ketil defender's, they're so braindead
@@kingofheroes1096 Don't forget the but if somebody else took them they would've had it worse argument as if that matters slavery is still slavery how much better treatement is doesn't matter you still have no freedom.
@@DBZFANX1000exactly, there’s no such thing as a good slave owner
It's always easy to be nice when things are fine, but when times get tough your true colors show. That's what happened with Ketil
@@solgoodguy577 I mean his true colors were already out if he really cared about her then he would have set her free, that's just the fact of the matter. He cared for her but not as a human not as a lover especially since he has a wife, but as his cushion of comfort that will do everything he wants. As he proceeds to sleep with her knowing she doesn't really have a choice in the matter.
i guess we can all learn from Ketil... on a viable Plan B
When you trust someone so much and got betrayed, that feeling is very suck and too hard to handle, what ketil did i think most people will do the same, even me or may be not, but such a waste, she is beautiful lady and useful
Absolutely disgusted with what Keitl did to Arnheid. I hope that Canute sends Thorkil after Keitl first when he and his army gets to the farm
eye for an eye def makes things. thanks for proving people are just hypocrites lmaoooo
@RAMI I get it. Canute murdered his brother and everyone else that was in his way of becoming king but I'm simply saying Keitl should get what he deserves, especially for his deplorable treatment of Arnheid and I will add that hopefully Canute will get what he deserves as well from whoever, Snake, Thorfinn, Thorgil, and so on. I'd take seeing Canute getting killed by Weasel and be happy
Yessssssssssss
😍Dani🥰
That’s how slaves where treated unfortunately. Up till that episode they that it pretty good as slaves
I’m glad you hate Ketil & what he did, not likes some people who defend him. Remember when Thorfin talks to Einar about vikings who always love to war and that’s normal thing for them and then Thorfin realizes that that’s not a good thing and he wants to change and doesn’t care about being a viking anymore. it’s not about the slavery is a normal thing in that time period but the slavery is a bad thing in the first place, what considered normal doesn’t mean it is a good thing thats the point that they try to tells
What is highlighted here has very little to do with the institution of slavery itself and it's inherent wrongs but in the faulty logic of those who run from "responsibility to one's self".
Tldr. The scene is less about slavery bad and more about how Ketil is a coward who retreats to his fantasy's. And one those fantasy's are broken then he snaps.
Askeladd group with their uncle had slaves. Canute has. Yilva wanted to have slaves.
Only a few were as illuminated like Thors.
Everyone who has an iPhone supports and normalizes slavery in this day an age.
So there isn't much difference if you had the money back then
@@ThatFuckinGame -Everyone who has an iPhone supports and normalizes slavery in this day an age.-
Ummm nooo sure if you have a phone you can say you indirectly supported child labor and shit overwork. But not slavery, slavery is something different then forced labor its similair but not the same thing.
Iphones people were just child forced labor for probably a bad pay. Being an actual slave is you just being owned there is no pay at all. You don't get paid at all its worse and not quite the same.
She’s a Slave!!! No one who has a slave is good, he just did what he needed to do as a Slave owner, understading this, it was a terrible thing to do. She didn’t ask to be in that position.
so he's bad because he owns slaves? what an amazingly deep analysis. well done.
@@ElDragow Yes he is bad beacuse he owns a slave he is a bum using a human as a toy.
The "slave owner" argument doesn't work in that situation. Owning slaves was something common in that period, we can't say someone is bad for owning slaves back then.
Is it really that hard to understand? 🤦♂️🤦♂️
@@JalimRabeikkkkk-argument doesn't work in that situation.-
Yes it does stop making excuses. because its common doesn't excuse you because him buying arnheid and just using as a sex toy isn't Forced upon him THAT IS A CHOICE.
A lot of things were common in the past and we still look down upon those behaviors that is a dumb argument.
He chose to buy arnheid he chose to own her and then sleep with her several time he chose to use her as a sextoy. Saying because its common its okay is stupid.
*Like common my ass him owning slave is still something he CHOSE TO DO nobody forced him to use arnheid as his sex comfort toy so stop with the baby excuses*
We are allowed to judge him based of his decissions it doesn't matter if its common not buying a slave is also a option you aren't forced buy a slave in vinland saga so that is a dumb excuse.
Hitler making the germans hate jews made hating jews common in germany that doesn't mean we don't look back at that in disgust thats a dumb argument.
@@ElDragow I know There’s a lot more Deep context behind his actions, he felt betrayed by her, I just say that if someone owns slaves you can’t be surprised if at some point that person takes negative actions against his slaves.
This eps is so hard to take and frustating that they don't showing us the reunion between leif and thorfinn.
It’d be really weird to have a happy reunion minutes after watching thorfinn’s friend almost beaten to death. Arnheids beating is supposed to overshadow that moment
people need to understand ketils situation, the dude did nothing wrong but still faith wants him wrong, he snap hes just human any person would snap too
You’re a clown. I find it funny how readily people adopt the perspective of a wealthy slave owner rather than the person enslaved. Arnheid’s a human too.
No
People are wired to react much more to negative things than positive. When he hits Arnheid everybody forgets they thought of him kind when he wanted to spare the kids from punishment.
Ketil snapped and murdered Arnheid...
This guy: Yeah but he's a human..
Idk what to say anything else.. 😑
Do you think that would hold up in court? 'Your honor I assaulted this woman but I snapped so it technically wasn't my fault'.
i can completely understand the rage ketil had. of course killing her went too far but as snake said: she is his slave and he had the right to do whatever he wants.
Fuck O** you hate-women.
*shown his true colors* bruh he's a SLAVE OWNER, he was a terrible person from day one lol plus this series is about vikings... women in this era barely had a say in almost zero to nothing. it's fucked up what he did not saying I'm defending his actions but what did yall expect? a happy ending being with a slave owner? she still was the reason 5 if not more of snake's men were killed. and knowing the mess she caused her trying to escape wasn't the only reason he snapped but yeah good reaction nonetheless.
Who are care of Snake men? they are all scum. Like Snake did.
Girl who saying "thayre all same" you want to think we are all same in your inner delusion but
Autor gived you thousends clues who Ketil rly is, a coward who cry to a woman, cant raise a son, fake iron fist, dumb man who attacked Caunte and more.. Nothing to be suprised, we are all frustrated with that part of story
But we have to go along with it
So next time when you chose man look for clues, is he soft inside like Ketil.. Than you wont say thayre all same...
At least you might learn something
R u slow
Ketil loves Arnheid, that just a fact. Eventho its one sided and toxic...