The Trick in EZdrummer 3 with the 9th Measure in your DAW | Toontrack's SD3 and EZbass, and too!
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- Опубліковано 13 тра 2024
- An advanced video explaining how the length of your midi file auditioned on the Groove's Tab in your Toontrack product can be optimized in relation to what measure in your DAW you start your song on.
***I do say "All Toontrack Programs" in this video. But EZkeys actually works with this issue pretty well.
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Audition Trick Related Videos...
The Audition Trick: • EZdrummer 3's DAW Audi...
In EZdrummer: • How to find THE RIGHT ...
In EZbass with Midi Files: • How to create Pro Bass...
In EZdrummer: • Starting a song in you...
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00:00 - Intro
02:42 - The Solution with the 9th Measure
04:10 - The Problem with Examples
06:43 - Trying to clarify the situation
08:05 - What about shorter Grooves?
09:09 - Conclusions
11:26 - Last Minute Advise
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I only found your channel about a week ago and have learned so much so fast. Your stuff is most excellent. Most others seem to talk about specific features of products but your style of explanation of workflow and so on is top class. Now I understand about good process and tricks to save time. So, better for the creativity to flow. And not technical at all, even for a newbie. And you speak clearly so please don't slow down. Save's me the effort of playing content at 1.25x or (sigh) 1.5x. :)
Thanks Steve. Stay Tooned, more material coming soon.
Thanks, man...I get this. I just wasn't paying attention before. Now I will.
Awesome! I was hoping I'd get at least one positive comment one this vid. I know this one will not be a "hit".
Me too!
Shootie taught me how to count time signatures a few years ago and it finally sunk in the other day 😊
Awesome!
Thanks for the workaround for this issue. This was driving me crazy.
Great to hear!
This makes so much sense that I feel I should have figured it out myself, but thanks for walking me through it. You never miss, Shawn.
Thank you, Rocky!
In Reaper you can right click the Metronome button and get the settings and turn on pre-roll for recording and/or playback both. Using that, I always just start my tracks on measure 1... but then I've also got in the habit of getting my drum track how I like it in the ezdrummer timeline whatever its called, then I select the whole track within EZDrummer and I drag/drop the whole midi onto the the EZDrummer track in Reaper instead of recording it... and then I disable the 'follow host'. This may or may not be the most ideal method, but it works for me.... but then I just saw your reply to someone else about possibly missing milliseconds on the initial hit... so I'll have to remember that and start on measure 2 to be safe, but still dragging the midi like I do would negate this sync issue.
And again another video that will really help my workflow ! Thank you Shawn
Thank you, Jim!
Vexed me for at least 2 versions of EZD
Thanks again, Sean, for useful insights explained several ways for different levels of understanding!
You got it, thanks for saying!
Hi Shawn, I was the guy who asked the question about this on your live stream a few weeks ago. Thanks so much, this is a very clear explanation.
In the Reaper action list there are these two useful commands for lining up with EZDrummer; 1) "Time Selection: Insert empty measures", and 2) "Time selection: remove time". And better yet, you can make short cut key commands for these actions.
In this example imagine your sections are 8 bars long but at the end of the 8 bar chorus there's two more bars of transition before the next verse. So now you find yourself 2 bars off. Just make a two-bar time selection at the beginning of your tune and select the insert action. Audition away, you are now lined up with EZDrummer, and when done select the remove time action.
And by extension, you can see that you can use this for all scenarios of trying to line up your grooves while auditioning.
Was your comment the one I read over and over trying to “get it”, or did I miss your comment when I was live?
@@ShootieSchool You did respond to my comment and explained it and I understood what you said. This video though, makes it much easier to digest especially for those that perhaps didn't understand what I was asking.
Haha!!! I’m lucky when I’m live! So Frank, you’re saying that to work around this momentary sync issue,, you’re just inserting measures at will at the beginning of your session to make up for the off-sync?
@@ShootieSchool Yes that's what I'm doing, inserting measures and then removing them after auditioning. I still start with your 9 measure offset which takes care of 90% of the cases like you said. Insert/remove commands for the other 10%.
@@frankpratte8358 I'm a little envious that you geeked out about this as much as I have and came up with a different solution that I didn't think of. Thanks for sharing!!!
Dang man were the Beatles prophetic? This is so simple AFTER you explain it! Now starting on my stuff on number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 ...........
Awesome!!!
Wow man... Thanks for the tip... I had this issue yesterday..
I appreciate you saying!
Tip of the hat to you Sir! Solid workflow logic!
Thank you for saying, Graphic!
Dude u r the man figuring this out.
Thank you, Clint!
Great video, thank you
Looks like a bug to me. Groove auditioning should not care about the relative bar number in the DAW. I do not write progressive but I have a bar of silence in the middle of the song that changes song structure related to bar number.
You are gold my friend👍
Thank you, Mark!
This really helps thank alot
Great to hear, Jam!
I did notice this. Thanks for the fix! Bar 9 from now on.
Awesome!
Wow! When I first got started about 2 months ago, in a week I dove in on my first DAW, my first MAC, & grabbed EZDrummer, EZKeys and EZBass. Almost right away I found your vid on auditioning them together on their Grooves tabs & loved it. Guess where I started my songs from the get-go? On measure 3 of course, lol! Yeah, I was having issues but I was half lost anyway, thought it was me or the software. Then I pop in here 7 days after you made this vid, & I am sure glad you decided to make it! Oh, and what was the FIRST song I tried to put together? Yup, 12-bar blues - hilarious! Thanks for tackling a topic that I get is not fun to explain! It will save me a load of grief!
Thanks for taking the time to comment. Great success story!!
Tip for Studio One users (and maybe others) - apologies if this has already been commented - too many comments to read. If you go to 'Song Setup' and set the 'Bar Offset' to -8, your songs will start on Bar 1 but loop correctly as per the Bar 9 trick Shawn uses. You'll still have that empty space at the start of the project, but your counting becomes more 'normal' with the intro starting on Bar 1 etc.
Haven't had the time to check it myself. A lot of people are recommending bar offset. Thanks Red!
Great solution and of course well explained. Makes me curious why Toontrack has it set up this way without an option to synch to playhead in the DAW, although I haven’t really thought that question through its possible complications. Anyway, thanks!
Thank you. It’s either an over site or a limitation. EZkeys can do it, but non of the modern programs.
That’s pretty wild. Great video demonstration of it.
Thank you, Scott!
Starting to get it❤
Great to hear!
One thing you can do is:
Change your DAW to start at -4 or whatever, so you can let it count in (or do 2 bars count-in).
I’m seriously surprised reading the comments to this video… Don’t understand that what you say isn’t obvious?
Thank you for your interesting and educating talk/tutorial video.
I will continue follow cause I really like fun 🤘
Fred!! Great comment! I wonder if all DAWs can do this offset. I will put it on my to-do list. If so I may start preaching this as an alternative workaround. I appreciate you taking the time to share this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks, It would have taken me some time to figure this one out.
You got it!
I have been in the ToonTrack eco system, seems like forever, and NEVER knew I could sync the auditions to the playback; life changer!👍
Great to hear, Deering!
I may as well put out an official "Audition Trick" video instead of the snippets I have below. Stay Tooned. Also... ***I do say "All Toontrack Programs" in this video. But EZkeys1 actually works with this issue pretty well.
ua-cam.com/video/zCsV6enPkjA/v-deo.html
Big help thanks!
You got it, Peaches 🍑
You're totally right in this video, we all set a metronome or just some time needed to press record and go to our instrument and be able to play something good without hurry. All my songs started at beat 2 or even 3. Toontrack is not alone since I had the same trouble in Cubase while auditioning audioloops before deciding to drag them to the multitrack project, auditoning done within the DAW by their internal Media Browser. Most of the audioloops where 4 measures long and I ended starting at 5... Start at 9th measure for EZD is a practical solution!While I do not agree with your last sentence, I used Bandmate in my last song twice and it worked perfectly and fast, I consider it as a google search within my midi library, it always finds its best groove within the library I have and, as youtube, it finds also many other similar candidates, so it's much faster than me, who was used to audition grooves while I was in v1 and v2 and spend some time in it. After Bandmate I drag into Songtrack and use Edit Play Style, sometimes even the grid editor, to deal with repetitions.
Thank you! Bandmate is great. My issue with it is it will only give about 70 Groove results back (many are AI generates) in which you have no control over at all. I'm hoping they keep working on it, or simply integrate it with the Grooves Tab where there would be no limitations. It's a very common complaint. For example, if you want to use your Funk Midi pack, there's no way to tell Bandmate to do that. If you have the amount of midi that I have, it is almost impossible to get Bandmate to search a midi pack I'm interested in. 70 divided by 250k = next to nothing. That doesn't mean it doesn't work well at it's job.
Or start on measure 1. Because (in summary) the Grooves tab plays long MIDI files in multiples of 8 bars. 😊 Also, some DAWS, like Digital Performer, have count-ins that work from any bar. In DP, count-in is enabled via a button. So, you can start the music at bar 1, and if you need a count-in, just enable it.
That certainly works for a lot of people. If I was doing a strictly electronic song I might work like that. If I record an analog instrument on the first beat of the song, it will sound edited whether count-in is enabled or not. We are talking preferences here, not rules. When mixing, most people have pre-roll in their final track. Songs typically don't start instantly. Measure offset is an equal solution which i did not covered in this video. I forget how hard I preach in this one but always do what works for you. Thanks for becoming a member!!
Excellent. I understood it, I wondered why it was out of sync, now I know.
Awesome!
In Reaper, I just change the Project Start Measure to 8 in Project Settings and Save as Default. This gives me a 1 bar count-in and hassle-free EZD3.
Yup. Good stuffn
Makes sense! Thanks for all of the videos brother. FYI, one of the videos you said you were gonna talk slower, and less sarcastic… because people were complaining/commented. 🙄 Screw them! Some people are unhappy no matter what and will bitch. You do you brother!!!! Don’t change. 1st can’t make everyone happy, and it’s YOUR personality that makes these palatable and easy to digest.
I appreciate that, Scott! Rock on \m/
This is awesome knowledge.
But what if we use the pre-roll in the doll that would give us a 2 bar count 0:01
My Pasted answer... You really make a fantastic point, nice work! For electronic/programmed compositions, this is a great solution. The reason I didn't even considered this is because I record analog instruments, so I could never afford to miss the milliseconds of an early hit when punching in after the pre-roll. The first measure of my song would sound edited. I like your thinking Micheal.
Thanks for explaining why this happens. I was puzzled by it just last night. I think Toontrack should fix it, or at least give us the option to sync the groove from where the play head starts.
You got it!
My brain. It exploded. But in a good way. Thank you.
This is the first video I did after doing my taxes and being sick \m/ "Let the hate flow through you..." Thank you, Derek!
LOL…. I do the same… start my songs at measure two…. I always use my markers in my DAW…. My projects always start in measure two….. need to see if this will work in my situation…. I need to try this out
Let me know how it goes if you remember to come back, Bernz.
@@ShootieSchool I always come back dude!!! LOL ya always put out some great content!! I’ll let you know….
@@Bernz66 Yes you do Bernz!... I meant back to this specific video. Thanks as always for commenting. \m/
@@ShootieSchool will do….. on this…. I will let ya know
Hi, if I update drummer 2 to ezdrummer3, my EZ packs will automatically be loaded in ezdrummer 3? Thks for help and very good tutos. Michel
Thanks! If you do a typical install with no custom settings in Product Manager, yes. Easy to fix if there’s a hiccup, too.
Hey I'd love to see ShootieSchool put out a video on how to best use different samples within EZDrummer. I have these awesome samples from Circles Drum Packs. I know how to insert them and all, the issue is within fills and such. A fast snare roll or anything like that just sounds so robotic. I worry it's because there aren't multiple sample recordings for a snare in these packs in terms of velocity or types of hits. How can I make fills within EZDrummer sound more organic with other sample libraries not included with EZDrummer or Toontracks in general?
I would think that if you want a natural sound then your wouldn't swap a kit piece out with a single one-shot. What most people do is blend their Toontrack sounds with on-shots. SD3 does this natively, EZD3 takes some work... ua-cam.com/video/35dQXn3SLAI/v-deo.html
Velocity works as volume for one-shots to help with machine gun effect.
@@ShootieSchool You have a video showing how this is done better in SD3? Maybe a subtopic for a live stream? I'd love to understand this more as I'm trying to decide purchase between EZD3 or SD3.
@@nicholasjustinmiller @Nick Miller My opinion is SD3 id better for Pro Edrummers and Pro Engineers. With the learning curve and price to represent that. Both programs are great.
In SD3 you just click a button and you add a new instrument of whatever you want. In EZD3 you're limited to a set amount and categories. But in a DAW you can use multiple instances of EZD3 to get around it.
In SD3 blending it is called "Stack" or "Stacking" if you want to look it up. I only show it briefly in one of my videos comparing it to EZD. I think I already linked you to that video.
If you go EZD3 and change your mind, there is always a crossgrade price to own both programs.
Hope that helps.
@@ShootieSchool really appreciate the responses. Go Celtics
Thanks for this Shawn. Einstein's theory of relativity sure has come in handy. Damn those who used it for the Atomic bomb though. When auditioning EZD3 grooves in Reaper, my method has been to use Reaper's insert empty measures feature which can account for the standard 8 bar length of the EZD grooves as well as song sections with more irregular offsets. Starting drums on bar 9 or bar 19 if the song has a longer drum-less intro is the best way most of the time for sure. Question for you... I really dig the sound of your song here. Reminds me of Big Wreck. I'm working with their producer on something new of my own. What EZX kit and drum kit preset did you use for this song? Was it actually the Classic Rock Amber Heavy Comp* preset or is that just what's on your screen at the time of playing back your song audio?
I'm going to guess that was the preset since I think I just threw this session together for this vid. Though there's an * I doubt I did much tweaking.
Other advice I received depending on the DAW, is some DAWs simply have a bar offset, and you just type in what measure 1 should be, that also does the trick too.
Last time we chatted, I forget if we got back with each other... I recognize your profile pic... I checked out some off your stuff. Cool ambient stuff, at least what I clicked on. Nice work. If you're promoting yourself and feel like giving me some stems, I'll work with them on a future vid and plug you.
Hope you're well!
But... maybe you have to change the start position on the EZ Drummer tab too...If it remains at 9, it will starts always from there...
I appreciate the interest, Fabio! But this video has nothing to do with EZdrummer's Song Track. If you were understanding the content though... then in this case EZdrummer's Song Track has no way of communicating with the Grooves in the Search Results area. Good idea though.
They need to have an offset ssetting, so you don't have to do a work-around.
Some DAWs have it.
@@ShootieSchool Yes but it should be in the Toontrack software too :)
I'm sure lots of us have noticed it but at the same time not really ‘noticed’ it.
Yup... guilty myself for a while.
Some weird things I noticed before now make perfect sense. It's kinda like the first year of the 21st century was 2001, not 2000 due to there being no year zero. Same thing here; there is no zero measure.
Totally.
This is so in depth and excellent info but very understandable and well explained, Thanks man!
Thank you. This was a fun one!