Turning Water into Rock with Hydraulic Press
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- Опубліковано 3 сер 2024
- Pushing the Limits to Create ICE VI: We're back with our custom-made CNC machined billet cylinder, this time cranking the pressure up to an astonishing 120,000 bars. That's enough force to transform water into a solid state known as ICE VI-making it as hard as rock! This pressure far surpasses the deepest point of the ocean, the Mariana Trench, and is exponentially greater than the pressure at the Titanic wreck site.
We've calibrated our hydraulic press to achieve this mind-boggling force, all backed up with rigorous testing and real-time calculations. Plus, we've got a water phase diagram on hand to show you exactly what's going on during this insane transformation.
As a bonus, we'll also delve into the fascinating science behind the compressibility of water vs steel, showcasing how much easier it is to compress water than steel at 5000+ bars. You won't believe your eyes when you see water turn into 'stone'!
Stay tuned for some jaw-dropping moments and an unprecedented experiment that you won't find anywhere else!
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Do not try this at home!! or at any where else!!
Music Thor's Hammer-Ethan Meixell - Наука та технологія
I decide to go all in with the mad scientist approach :D If you have any ideas to improve the setup please let me know for future videos! I a have also the fine publication "[22] Methods for the Study of Water in Ice Phases " By W. F. KUHS that I am going to utilize on planning future videos on this series!
Cut open one of the parts that failed, you may be getting a rough finish on the parts being pressed together causing the leak. Might require more research into compatible materials.
As water finally gushed out, it means it found a path to get out. Maybe both surfaces must be super smooth with no trace of any roughness so we limit where the water can get out. But I gues it's one part of a bigger picture. Keep up the good work! For science!
@@britmeister Highly doubtful. To begin with the thermal properties and the viscosity are all wrong for the application.
Make the outer ring out of a hardenable steel (4340?), machine it, get it hardened and hone to final size- make the interference much less so it doesn't tear the steel.
I think the only ways to improve the setup are to add more Safety/Clickbait Tape and Googly Eyes.
Unfortunately during high transient compression you are heating the water too. You need to increase pressure, then hold it to make sure the water sample cools back down to room temperature.
came here to say that, on the pressure/tempurature graph, you can see this, in the first test, you could see the escaping water steaming. pressing in stages, or using cold (but not frozen) water + cold tools to start.
Additionally the pressure is defined as kg/cm², not sure if he took the area of the piston into account. Anyway, reducing the area of the piston is the eay to go, if you want to achieve extremely high pressures. A smaller bore would yield less as well, which should result in a higher pressure too.
i mean how much heat is being created with friction just from pushing the metal plug into an increasingly small diameter hole into the block...even without water and/or air..
I think the pressure causes the heating not the friction. Just like the space shuttle coming in from orbit, the air pressure on the heat shield heats it up and not so much the friction.
@@Boss-Possum It's actually the friction of the air against the shields that creates the heat when re-entering the atmosphere.
*If the roller bearing piston was hollow on the lower end instead of solid, the water pressure inside the hollow would push the piston metal outwards, thus creating a tighter seal.* At present, your design has this pressurized water expanding only the borehole in the large block of metal, which then loosens and destroys the good seal you are seeking. As the inside diameter of the hollow piston is made larger, the sealing pressure will increase, but you can't make the wall too thin because you need those walls to resist the sideways forces of the _not perfectly rigid_ frame of the hydraulic press. (A tapered hollow can give you the best of both worlds.)
You actually need _at least part of_ the piston metal to deform more easily than the cylinder metal. You could try putting a much softer metal, such as lead or copper, as the hollow lower end of the hard metal piston. Being softer, that metal will deform more easily, making a tight seal that still has reasonably low friction... Much like a bullet in a high-powered rifle.
But notice that bullets are NOT made with a significant hollow on the bottom, because they could seal too tightly and make the gun explode. Related issue: A downside of this _hollow bottom_ approach is, it becomes difficult to determine how much of your compressive force is being consumed by piston friction. A possible solution to that is to have a small tapered plug of some metal that will remain solid until you have exceeded your target pressure, and then exceed the plug's yield strength and be extruded. By knowing the yield strength of the plug metal, you can calculate how much hydraulic pressure is needed to make it extrude.
And Yes, definitely DO polish the mating surfaces, at least of the hard metals. @HydraulicPressChannel
Fun fact: water has more known phases than any other pure material. The weird properties of water are in part due to its hydrogen bond having a polarizable dipole, and the C2v point group symmetry of the molecule. Good video.
I like fun facts and this is the second one this morning from YT ❤lol
Best education platform in history some may say , once one has worked out what’s fact . Your comment is slightly outside my knowledge base but still welcomed 👍
@@newagetemplar6100 Yes, there are loads of educational videos on UA-cam from children's level up to top-level research seminars on every possible subject.
Yes and Moses parted water into Hydrogen and oxygen.
You mean it's wet?
Yes, it’s that wet wet.
Leaving an air pocket may be self defeating as air temperature increases dramatically as it’s compressed… Your experiments in physics are entertaining as hell.
And it is soluble in water.
Ice VI is solid at higher temperatures, its created by pressure not low temperatures, the air would be long dissolved before that point anyway
@@Lilith-Rose?
You can make different forms of ice by adding or removing heat while keeping the pressure constant. This is complicated by different ices having different densities though. Ice VI is about 1.3 times as dense as water, ice VII about 1.5 times as dense (both would sink in water if they could be sufficiently contained). This means that you’d have to apply or remove pressure while adding or removing heat because the same weight of different ices have different volumes.
As the total energy of the system is constant, just wonder...hmm...
I think you should back-drill the failed tools, press the plug out and look exactly what happened. I'm super curious to find out! Did it cut little channels? Did the roller crack? Did something else happen? So many questions! The answers might be valuable info for your next try, too.
water probably "Squeezed" the hole bigger.
Curious minds think alike.
i wonder what dangers are inside...
Press a deformable plug ahead of the steel rod, so that the deformable plug becomes a wiper seal as it is compressed between the water and the steel rod.
Also should try freezing the parts and start with ice to minimize any leak before getting in to real pressures. And yes softer materials could work better as those hard metal could get micro fractures from being forced together and the water can escape. Softer material should seal better in my theory of all things soft and then hard :D
Brass? Coper?
or wire EDM to cut the part
I was going to say Lead, but that might have too low of a melting point... 🤔
In the Sticky thread, a few of us have independently come to the conclusion of a concave piston, to force the pressure into the center. Instead of the flat piston which is wanting to spread pressure across the entire surface; thus, escaping out the sides.
Bronze is what is usually used for high pressure seals like this
One of the phrases I've regretted: "I'm just going to push it in anyway"
Every week, Lauri gets closer and closer to actually generating a miniature black hole in the shop. Like I genuinely see that happening in the next few years.
You will have to shrink it down to the size of an atom 😂
This week, we will crush all matter into rock...
Making black hole into rock
Fortunately, he will have to pass through room temperature fusion, which will solve all the world's problems.
I believe in him
I think they start with normal ice as the higher stage ice 6 and 7 is basically removing the space from the ice molecules and forcing them back in to waters state while keeping it solid. It behaves less like rock or ice or water and more like metal
Filling the bottom tool space with distilled water and freezing it before applying pressure does seem like the way to go.
So if we had an ocean like 250 km deep, and we did go near the bottom, we couldn t go farther down because the water being almost solid ? I am understanding it right ?
@@maxhartung97 Correct. The deepest water on earth is only ~10km deep, however, so we're a long way from that. The pressure was part of the reason going down to the bottom of the mariana trench was such a feat. Given that the earth's crust is at most ~70km deep, we probably won't be seeing water in nature in a mineral form anytime soon.
Honestly the science test are my favorite types of your videos. I enjoy smashing things but I feel like learning from the physics is far more fascinating. 👍
Me too
Same
This is killer. I want you to do a collaboration with NileRed where you create some insane shit through high pressure.
@Nilered collaboraton would be so good! Add in Styropyro and Pommijätkät for good measure.
Retar
ded vir
gin nilered fan
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Now your next step is simulating nuclear explosion with flash powder, it has same temperature as nuclear fireball after 1 second :D
We already made a nuclear explosion simulation video. Didn't use flashpowder, went with 25 kilos of dynamite :D here is link to that ua-cam.com/video/ZA1UnzrR6f0/v-deo.htmlsi=tcpV1dCZkztstPMV
@@HydraulicPressChannel yes but the dynamite doesn't reach nearly as high temperature ;)
@@KClO3 Yep the thermal radiation was missing from this dynamite. I can do some math and maybe do a miniature version with flashpowder. It's not to safe handle that in such a large quantities as dynamite.
@@HydraulicPressChannel I will email you with further helpful information
Hell, he could probably initiate a nuclear explosion with the press.
"Today we will be crushing this strange metal ball. It weighs about 6.2 kilos..."
Your ability to speak English so fluently, with such an epic accent makes me so happy.
Thanks for taking time to do those experiments. Very interesting. Should you carefully cut the test pieces open and see if anything is below the bearing?
Homeboy is out here making Ice 6, I guess Finnish people are just built different XD
Jokes aside, this is an incredibly fascinating video!
This is only the start. The real goal is to get Ice 5,000,000
This is so cool, this reminds of that water planet that has oceans that are several hundreds km deep. Really awesome
I think that’s Europa.
@@ferretyluv no, I looked it up and I meant gj1214b ua-cam.com/video/9mVRc80vhhQ/v-deo.htmlm44s
@@ferretyluvEuropa is a moon, Kepler-22b is an exoplanet
@@UniverseUAmoons and planets are not mutually exclusive. Moons can be planets.
Europa is not a planet @@ryanvess6162
"So nobody's going to die today, that's always good goal" 🤣
Here on the Canadian Prairies temperatures during winter can be as low as -40 Celsius, presumably similar to Finland. The city that I live in has complained that when the ice is thick and compressed on roads it's hard enough to damage the blades of the plows and graders. Somewhat related is that the steel on cars involved in fender-benders tends to shatter rather than bend at those temperatures.
I read a book on super high pressures years ago where they used gaskets made out of soapstone (probably contained within steel) when doing the first experiments to make synthetic diamonds. I wonder if that could work here?
Probably this with tighter tolerances on the machining. Like those laser cut cnc'd pieces that slowly slide into themselves and you can't see the seams.
@@benvaun1330I think you mean Electrical Discharge Machining EDM is different from a laser.
Wire EDM
high-pressure research uses a mineral called pyrophyllite these days.
Try a 3 or 4mm thick copper disc which fits tightly in the upper wider part of the bore on top of the water, and then place the steel roller on top of this, the copper should make a tight seal.
Im not sure if the copper will finally squirt out at this pressure, but it should enable a higher pressure build up.
I think that copper is too soft, even softer than the steel.
It would leak just as fast, or maybe even faster because now the copper is working a lubrication.
@@The_Keeper It only acts as a gasket under the steel roller. The copper is soft, but it can only expand out in the bore, thus creating a tighter seal the more it expand. I think it's definitely worth a try. It would also be possible to experiment with other soft metals like bronze or brass.
@@The_Keeper Copper is quite frequently used as a crush washer and for compression sealing in plumbing because it is soft. It is able to deform into the micro grooves between harder metals and create a fluid-tight seal. Copper wouldn't lubricate between the surfaces. It would fill voids and make it very difficult for water to escape.
@@CalculatedRiskAK A tapered brass jacket over a steel slug was my thought. Tapering the plug and bore would create self-centering force and ensure the crush jacket is deforming into the interface rather than wedging the plug from any axial misalignment.
One thing you may want to consider using is an electric or laser thermometer, something to get the temperature of the water that leaks out. It could help you to figure out if you’re going too fast and heating the water. You may end up having to press it a lot slower, like 1000 - 2000 mbar at one minute intervals to allow cooling.
help him figure out if he's heating the water? the steam explosion wasnt a clue? lol
its a cool experiment and all but it is *definitely* just heating the water which makes it impossible to reach Ice VI+, the water/ice needs to be held at that insane pressure and allowed to cool back down but thats not possible with this setup
Dude. I have gotten after UA-camrs for "phoning it in" and getting lazy as they get bigger. It's not a condemnation, but more of a warning that if you get lazy, you'll lose people. You have stepped this to a level that is the opposite of that, you got huge, and said, "I'm not done, not resting", and while everyone doesn't have to do this, it should be seriously celebrated and praised. Awesome stuff man, you've re-hooked me.
Three thoughts:
1. How hot does the steel at the friction surface get at that pressure? Is it hot enough to soften the metal at the friction surface enough to allow high pressure water to force its way through?
2. Iirc increasing the pressure an object in under causes the object to heat up, is it possible you need to cool the tool so that you don't end up trying to compress steam into ice?
3. Another possibility that springs to mind, though is extremely unlikely due to your knowledge, is if you lubricated the surfaces the lubrication might be being forced out by the water allowing it to escape.
It would be cool to see what would happen using tungsten instead of steel.
I think you'd need to apply the pressure slowly, and remove heat from the water/ice simultaneously. So, maybe use liquid nitrogen.
There's an increase in temperature when you're applying so much pressure, that heat needs to be removed to get to the part of the phase diagram where there's ice VI.
My suggestion for your goal is to improve the sealing of the cilinder. I believe that your weak component is the cilinder itself which at high pressures may yield and lose its original diameter (therefore weakening or completely losing the interference with the piston, your actual sealing). If that's true you should be able to measure that difference in diameter once you complete the test. An option could be to carefully machine a conic hole (and possibly a conic piston, but it's not necessary, it should work anyways) such that if the cilinder yields and increases in diameter you can keep the sealing by increasing the piston's run and so the interference force. This technique doesn't allow you to be accurate on the amount of cilinder resistance compared to the water's, but if the cilinder actually yields, also the measurements on your current system isn't accurate. Mine it's just an idea from a mechanical engineering student, for sure if you find online differend sources that achieved similar results, use their technique.
I love how creative this guy is ... never seen anyone trying to turn water into rock! 🎉
I think you'd have to go incredibly slowly to give the molecules time to reorganize. Going fast just generates heat too rapidly. The geological processes that create diamond with trapped ice VII are incredibly slow. Also the idea someone brought up of the piston being hollowed at the bottom so the pressure tightens the seal is pretty good. You already know full well that the steel is also compressible and that is probably the reason the water can squeeze by and cut a channel back out. You should probably try to find the densest and least compressible material you can for the piston and bore chamber, not taper the channel too much to avoid buckling on the sides of the piston, and possibly lap the surfaces to remove micro-channels. Natural ice VII is a fluke of nature that required an improbable combination of specific conditions. Even if you did create ice VI with this method, you likely could never verify it because it would instantly phase shift back to liquid water once the pressure was gone. If ice VII is stable as a mineral without maintained pressure, then that should be verifiable by drilling back into your bore to remove it, and that should be the goal.
This was so much fun to watch. Please keep pursuing this ice 7 goal of yours! It will be very fun to watch how you approach this challenge!
Perhaps you could fabricate some kind of two staged clylinder. An inner one with the water and an outer one with oil so that there is a smaller pressure differencial between the water chamber and the outside.
Make a dye that takes 26 tons to insert into the hole, then you can be confident that it will hold 26 tons of potential water pressure before leaking.
Because I think if it only takes 5 tons to insert it might leak once there’s 5 tons of pressure pushing back on it from the steam.
Oh my gosh I love the laughter of Anni (Anne?)!
Try using degassed water. Use a high vac pump to degass it.. maybe while it is contained in the compression chamber. I'm a retired biomedical engineer who used to maintain Fresenius kidney dialysis machines. They run on ultra purity deionized RO water - but still use a degassing chamber to produce ultra high volumetric accuracy. The dialysis machine is strictly volume-based.
Thank you for the fascinating vids! You two are GREAT :)
Understanding what you were attempting made this 10x better! I'll be rooting for you the whole way on this one!
This is so interesting. Literally had me on the edge of my seat. Can't wait to see what you come up with. Great work.
I suggest making a groove in the piston and putting a thin copper ring in it so instead of water making a leaking channel around the piston the copper being mild will block these channels making a seal like rubber.
There is another problem with it. When you compress that water it will start increasing temperature so the pressure threshold for the ice is going higher and higher as you compress more and more I guess.
I don't think you made ice VI here. The pressure and the metal grinding against eachother would also have heated it up quite a bit. To make ice VI you'll need to pressurize it and then keep it under pressure until it cools to room temperature and crystalizes. Interesting video tho.
I'd like to see what happens with regular ice in this setup. I wonder if applying pressure raises the temp, therefore the required pressure for ice VI? Starting with ice would help to counter this.
You probably need a longer cylinder and piston to achieve a better water seal. I also remember reading that creating artificial diamonds for industrial applications involves the use of controlled explosions to achieve the desired pressures instantly.
They attempted to swim in the deep end of the physics pool, yet sunk like a stone before reaching half way.
Made my day! 🤣
I read the title and saw a huge explosion in my mind. Great experiment!
It's always a pleasure to make our no. 1 fan happy ❤
I think the plug might work better actually if you used a softer metal like aluminum, because it would deform better to fill all the gaps
aluminum is like silly putty at these pressures
Fascinating. Brilliant.
Suggestions:
- polish all piston/cylinder surfaces to perfection.
- make head of piston severely concave to increase seal performance.
- start with ice as the compression heat will bring it to liquid quickly, yet allow for sealing before liquid water finds a channel. Liquid will find a channel in any imperfection and exploit it.
Just a thought.
Thanks... Love your amazing work!!
Consider pre-soaking the die's in a dry-ice and alcohol bath, the parts will achieve something like -100 to -90F (attach thermocouples to the surface of the part). You'd have to size the tooling for cold temp maybe take advantage of the metal expanding as it heats up to create/maintain the seal.
Typically hydraulic/pneumatic pistons have rings to ensure a seal with the cylinder wall. Think of the compression rings around an engine piston or the groves cut around an AK gas piston. Perhaps machining some rings around the piston would help with the seal?
Piston rings aren't going to seal as tightly as forcing a steel plug into a smaller hole though
What next? Air into rock? This is awesome! I like the more science based videos a lot!
I actually looked this up and it's possible :D 10 000 bars and liquid nitrogen is rock which should be doable after I solve the sealing issue.,
@@HydraulicPressChannelI seriously wasn't expecting that wow!
You guys have only gotten better and better over the years! I can’t wait to see what comes of your research. Good luck!
"All the water scientists have messed up the diagram. It's going to be a rock." That certainly is a quote xD
As always, this is a great video. And the editing is tight.
The bubbling boil and vapour released was so cool to see for some reason.
I think there is so large pressure difference that the water starts to boil from all the energy being generated from pressure loss
@@HydraulicPressChannel Heat is liberated when materials change phase to a lower energy state. The application of pressure does work on the system, as well, which also liberates heat.
It might help to de-gas the water first. But compressing air with water will just dissolve air back into the water. So some air purge or a different setup.
Water isn't compressible, or is only slightly compressible, so put a small hollow space into your bearing and cover it with a thin piece of metal that will form tightly inside your hollow space as you apply pressure. I also think you should be using something to keep the water as cold as possible to prevent it from flashing to steam. Also use ultra-pure water. Looking forward to how this turns out.
How am I not a subscriber now? I was for years.
I applaud your machining skills.
I love these science-y episodes, you rock!!
Hello, I have worked with materials to enable encapsulated electronics survive to 30,000 PSI and 200C and did tests to 40,000 PSI and published a few patents on the ways to achieve this. Some quick notes from my experience:
- The gas cap of air will start to have its own unique behavior at very high pressures and its compressibility can be modeled when you include what is known as the 'z-factor' in calculations based on the basic formula for z=PV/NRT where V=volume, R=gas constant, N=number of moles, T=temperature and z=the compressibility factor. The compressibility factor is found from a set of curves and equations for each molar constituent of a gas and the total compressibility analysis would be based on the mix of gasses in the air trapped above the water, which would also likely be pushed into solution into the water, which in turn messes up the rest of the experiment.
- The gas saturated water makes a terrific water-jet cutter, opening up any passage way initiated by the highly compressed air which in itself is essentially behaving like a liquid as it gets highly compressed. This means that a) You really do not want a gas cap on top of your water as you compress it b)It is probably assisting with the failure of the seal rather than helping
- I recommend your procedure attempt to eliminate the gas cap above the water as your seal forms. I don't know the best way to do this but have a couple of ideas....
1) If the entire chamber could filled with water, no air at all. Sounds simple, but hard to achieve. If the test were done in a vacuum, it would be better but also not very practical and also the water in a vacuum would all boil off anyway as you are simply reducing the boiling point.
--- If you had a tiny 'bleed hole' perpendicular to the test chamber below where the taper of the chamber has forced the bearing roller to create a metal to metal seal, it might maybe work. the interference fit may also be lost as the bearing roller passes by the bleed hole, as this would be the weak point for 'jet cutting' to occur, but it might work. Water would be filled into the chamber to the bleed hole, where it would leak out while filling. The smaller the hole the better but the smaller the hole the longer it will take to 'equalize' prior to starting. Due to capillary action of the bleed hole on the water (and gravity), the water will do its best to evacuate the chamber via the bleed hole by itself. The press should go slow so that all air can evacuate the test chamber via the bleed hole with minimum pressure applied as the roller bearing approaches and immediately as it moves past the bleed hole you would begin to be trying to compress the water. Again, this may fail as the bleed hole will also become the weak point for 'jet cutter' action to start.
- The galling action from the insertion into the taper will create a lot of heat and the bearing will want to weld itself to the chamber. I think slow insertion may minimize this effect while fast insertion may helps the jet cutting to occur. In your test here, if you did not have the leakage, you probably would have had welding.
- I agree that a hemispherical bottom on the bearing could assist with increasing the strength of the seal as it would force the seal into the sides of the chamber but I think you already get that just with the galling of the interference fit.
- I am kind of free thinking this as I write it, not after a good long analysis. Another thought is that the strength of the seal is ultimately going to be limited by the cross section of steel created by the galling and that a failure mode of cutting through that is what we appear to be seeing. I know from my high pressure work that a failure path once started advances and grows extremely rapidly (micro seconds) due to the jet cutting that occurs from the pressure differential across the seal. A the end of the day, the seal needs to have a significant cross sectional area and the difference in volume to obtain compression of the water is relatively tiny. A much smaller pin could be used or if water could be trapped in a chamber and then the pressure increased a lot. This might not be achievable with a press, instead requiring something more along the line of an explosive charge pushing a piston down on a chamber with water in it. .Hmmm, sounds like fun but a big deviation from what you are doing! Another thought would be to push a plug of Teflon ahead of a roller bearing to act as the seal. The Teflon would have a slight interference fit. Lubricate the roller bearing pusher-plug and have as close to zero interference as possible with the plug. No taper needed on the chamber. The Teflon could deform and seal. Make it longer and smaller diameter too
Hope this provides some ideas. Cheers.
this is the one channel that consistently makes me laugh with the video titles alone
This is fascinating! I had no idea such a thing was even theoretically possible! But how are you planning to confirm the results of your attempts? Cut the base open and see if it's all steel or if there's a rock in there? Or are we just observing how much of the water escapes in its various forms and just guessing? 🤔
If no water escapes and the calculated internal pressure is high enough physics and mathematics dictates that it exists, the moment you release the pressure it would revert to its liquid state so it's not really observable (other than when it is found in diamonds). Its not guess work because it is calculatable and the maths confirms that it does exist even though you can't physically see it in this kind of experiment
From what I can gather the forms of ice which he is referring to cannot exist at room temperature and normal pressure, if he was to open it back up it would just melt into water again. So I think the idea is that by figuring out a chamber design that doesn't leak, and then crushing it, he will be able to mathematically prove there is Ice VI or VII inside.
You could probably get better feedback from this if you get some quicker responding scales or pressure sensors.
As for the piston design, you might try a tapered design with varying angles of pitch. You'd get a smaller area on the bottom surface while maintaining a tight mechanical seal.
Moses got water out of a rock. Lauri is trying to torn water into a rock.
1.I'm thinking a short taper ground into the bearing along with a more extreme interference fit would be necessary to make this happen. You would be surprised with how flexible steel and iron can be, even hardened steel and cast iron. I rebuilt a Kubota engine recently with interference fit cylinder liners. The fit has to be extreme because there is no lip top or bottom to keep the sleeve/liner located in the bore. It was somewhere around .008-.010" fit (.20-.25mm). Those are cast liners and cast iron block so both are notoriously dimensionally stable, and they had zero issue with being pressed together. Just keep going up with the interference fit number until your press starts to have a hard time, at which point you know your limit becomes the materials themselves. I think my press, which is only 20 tons, was on the edge of its capability pressing in a liner that was 76mm in diameter, but with such a small diameter piece, you can likely increase the interference to quite an extreme degree that the material itself will fail before your press is maxed out.
2. Another thing you might do is use a very fine sand paper to score your bearing for a better seal. Those microscopic lines in the metal will act like o-rings.
3. Finally, something you should think about is heat of compression. You're generating a lot of heat when you do this experiment. I don't know what temperatures are involved, but you're almost certainly exceeding the critical temperature of water when you move the press very quickly. This is why the fast action of the ram failed earlier than with the slow press. The heat had more time to escape. I think that large number, 28 tons, occurred after the ram hit the stop and began to build resistance. If there was a way to slow down the increase in pressure so that ambient temps aren't exceeded by much inside the chamber, that would be ideal. Maybe through a screw press or slow down the hydraulic pump somehow?
Re diamond synthesis and Tracy Hall Lauri needs carbide confinement mounted in hardened tool steel. No steel is hard enough to not directly deform. Even hydrothermal growth (e.g. cultured quartz) requires quite the dance not to go high order boom.
I have two ideas that could improve the setup. One idea would be to make the bottom part into two parts where the outside is hardened. That way it cannot expand as much. But make sure that part is still pressed into another steel part which applies pressure from the outside and (hopefully) stops it from cracking open. The second idea would be to make the cylinder slightly cone shaped. I do not think the water actually cuts the material. I think the material is rubbed off from the cylinder rubbing against the bore. Since the pressure is so high, it just widens the hole to a point where the water can escape. But if you use a cone instead of a cylinder, the force from the press will keep it shut. Of course that will also increase the outer diameter of the lower tool which is a problem if there is a hardened section. Interesting challenge tho. Also keep in mind that the pressing will also increase the temperature of the tool and the water inside. So you will either need more pressure or make sure it stays cold. Maybe put the tool with the water inside into a freezer first and when the pressure is applied, wait for the surrounding material of the tool to absorb the generated heat. Also cooling the steel would make it stretch a bit less.
I think it could work with a cascade of regular hydraulic zylinder seals. If one seal can withhold pressure of for example 300bar against the atmospheric pressure a cascade of two should be able to withstand nearly double the amount, if there is a non compressible fluid in between?! If you have 600bars in the compressed chamber, you have 300 bars between the chambers and the second seal only has 300bars.
Similar to a multiple stage piston Kompressor
it's so amazing seeing his channel after several years and seeing that he can speak english fluently compared to how it was. keep up the great videos
You won’t be able to create solid water unless you can dissipate the heat you’re generating. The piston energy is getting converted to heat and pushing the water to the far right of the phase diagram before you can hit the solid phase. You need to have a system that can pull the heat out of your tool and you’ll probably also have to go slower to allow the cooling to occur as you go.
I have few ideas to make a better seal. For first, lap the hole, so it's very smooth. Also grind the roll edge round and very smooth. With so tight fitting, sharp edge in roll chamfer most likely chip the steel and scratch it.
With this principle, you need more fitting force than pressure under the roller. Otherwise water will stretch the outer steel and create leak.
Other method could be to make self sealing structure. O-ring is good seal because pressure presses ring surface always tighter than needed because pressure affects on entire ring but sealing surface is always smaller. You can make similar structure with steel.
Take a silver steel rod. Machine bottom part thinner, machine groove under the wider part, machine groove on the top, forming kind of piston ring, which is still connected. As long as the groove underneath is bigger than sealing surface at the outer part, it will seal. As the pressure rises below, it pushes ring in the steel harder
Sealing surface must be wide enough not to sink in the steel and seal must be thick enough not to break. Use silversteel, so you can harden it. If possible, grind it smooth after hardening.
Take smaller steps... try crushing ice to that pressure successully first, then go for water after that.
I think you're getting closer, interesting
Likely what you're perceiving as a delay in the sensor is that pocket of air being compressed. Perhaps you could create the tool with a very slight bevel so it gets tighter as you compress it down?
I am a part of the delay camp, I think the huge burst of air was the instant it transitioned, it was so instantaneous, it makes sense a phase change happened
Perhaps if you add threads and screw the piece of metal into place? Then you can use the press to just sheer through them as you create the ice 7?
Can you use a thermal camera as well? You might be increasing the temperature as you press, especially with all that metal friction and adiabatic compression of the air pocket. which could keep you in the liquid part of the phase diagram.
I'm convinced Lauri is going to unlock secrets of alchemy and start producing objects that defy conventional wisdom.
I think you may also be missing how much pressure your tool can handle too. It seems to me that if you're pushing a bigger object into a hole that's too small for it, the metal is giving way to some degree at those lower pressures and as the pressure builds its just that much weaker.
thank you for putting so much effort into these really cool experiments. I can't wait to see your progress in the future. I read the book Cat's Cradle by Kurt Vonnegut that was talking about ice-9 which took over the planet. It is what first made me realize that there were other types of ice in general. The book wasn't scientifically accurate, but still a great one. It made me very excited to see you changing water into ice with pressure. I hope you can make ice VII and have a cook mineral to show at the end. Great work as always!
There is a real ice-IX, but it doesn't of course have the fantastical properties (fortunately!)...
I LOVEEE the inclusion of so much extra science facts. You're actually quite a good teacher.
And what I mean by that is i feel like most people just come here to see the carnage, but your educational content in this video was really good.
This was alot more incredible than I originally anticipated
The problem with this is, at such pressures, the steel itself acts like rubber! You put that much pressure inside it, on a liquid, and it just squirts out around the plug. To solve this, think how you would design a setup made out of plastic (or other lower-modulus material), at proportionally lower pressures. You either need a plug that expands as it goes (sealing the gap with greater pressure), or some way to equalize the pressures on all sides (to break up and counter the radial force of the contained pressure).
The first thing I would think would help, is to make the piston very much taller. You aren't increasing the stiffness of material sealing against it, but you are putting more of it (more sealing face), and perhaps the pressure can drop along the interface, eventually to atmospheric at the top and thus not leak. On the downside, all it takes is one little sneak path up the side, and out it squirts; and ramming even a polished slug into a finely machined hole, will still have microscopic scratches that water can be forced through.
The other way is to press from all sides, like the octahedral and other shapes that various experiments, early diamond synthesis (and maybe still to this day? I don't recall), etc. used. I'm guessing this isn't so feasible (you'd need many hydraulic rams, synchronized by volume, and a lot more fixturing/machinery, to pull it off; perhaps they could be driven from your existing machine, via patch hoses, but perhaps that's not such a great idea either, for various reasons; or via a much more complex "tool", a hydraulic transmission?).
The other other way, is to just brute force crush the whole thing, tooling and all. Which I think is kind of how the ultra-high pressure diamond anvils do it. By leaving a small concavity on the face of an otherwise very flat, hard and strong tool, and pressing it all down uniformly, by sheer brute force elastic deformation the cavity is made to collapse, with a pressure comparable to the elastic modulus of the material; and all the clamping force around the cavity, acts to seal it. Most of the clamping force distributes over the tool faces themselves, which seems inefficient, and a more direct method (like literally pressing on a cylinder as in traditional hydraulics) is a more obvious approach, but when you have all these other problems to deal with, some compromise is inevitable. (The active volumes in these tools are extremely small.)
I think they still use a tapered mating face on these, and there's likely something to be said about interference fits and tapering -- which is to say you're not on the wrong track with the interference fit, peg-and-hole approach, but that more consideration is required. In any case, my thought process is: if you're able to drive the peg in such a way that it stretches the hole, that gets you the radial pre-loading needed to seal the joint. (And that's a lot of force, and you can only pre-load up until the hole material yields and the water simply pushes through; both tools must be very strong, and very stiff, if at all possible!). Instead of a press-fit into a step, some taper may be required -- on both parts. What angle (and what angle on both parts; they might not be exactly the same but subtly different..!), and what lengths and such, I don't have any intuition for, unfortunately.
Of course... more consideration means either many more tools turned, crushed and recycled; or scale models made -- like I said, think about how to capture slightly-less-extreme pressures inside materials much less rigid and strong. Or preferably some good solid engineering calculations -- or even material simulations. Well, that would be expensive (pretty sure simulators exist, but not cheaply..), though I wouldn't be surprised if you can find either someone, or some company, willing to do the job for a little free advertising..?!
And yes, stiffer materials than steel; there are a few elements that might do (molybdenum and tungsten come to mind, placing about twice the stiffness as steel; alloys would have to be selected for strength as well, for example commercially-pure Mo is about comparable to CRS in strength), but probably the most common in machine tools is carbide (namely, cemented tungsten carbide). Which... can be machined, with great difficulty... and, needless to say it's not exactly going to be cheap in massive blocks for a potentially one-shot test, but, it is another thing that would help.
Anyway, not an ME, just ramblings of an EE's intuition -- perhaps other high-pressure engineers can weigh in better here. Cheers!
How can you prove that you turned water into rock when you can't get the ( rock ) out to prove it ?
Cut that sucker in half.
I think this video raises an intresting point. The idea of crushing water into rock through a hydraulic press disrupts the very essence of our perceived reality. It provokes a profound disruption and challenges our established boundaries of what is deemed possible, blurring the lines between conventional distinctions.
In this seemingly absurd endeavor, we are compelled to confront our own preconceived notions, symbolized by the solidity of rock and the fluidity of water. Are these boundaries merely illusionary? Are we bound by the constraints of our perceived reality, or can we transcend them?
This enigmatic spectacle reveals the fragility of our constructed knowledge and amplifies an underlying tension within our human cognitive apparatus. It exposes the incessant struggle between our desire for certainty and the disturbing unknown that is perennially lurking beyond our grasp. The act of crushing water, symbolically transforming its fluidity into rock-like solidity, ignites a philosophical fire that consumes our certainties and forces us to confront the void that lies within.
We encounter the inherent contradictions and paradoxes that permeate our very existence, forcing us to question the very fabric of reality itself. Are we merely passive observers, confined to our sensory perceptions? Or are we co-creators, actively shaping and molding the world around us through our interpretations and subjective constructions?
In the dialectical dance of water and rock, we witness the interplay of opposites and how they intertwine to form a delicate tapestry of existence. This spectacle invites us to embrace the disorienting yet liberating journey of philosophical exploration, where the ineffable truths and profound insights lie in the realms of the inexplicable.
Let us not fear this confrontation with the unknown and the implausible. Instead, let us cherish and relish in the disarray it provokes within us. For it is precisely in this chaos that we uncover the seeds of critical thought and self-transformation.
Thus, this video's perplexing proposition beckons us to embrace uncertainty, dismantle our certainties, and venture into the uncharted territories of our philosophical landscape. It compels us to traverse the vast expanse of our cognitive realms, where the mystifying collision of water and rock reveals the deepest riddles of existence. In this journey, we may not find definitive answers, but we will emerge enriched with an unwavering commitment to question, to challenge, and to perpetually seek the unfathomable depths of truth.
This pretty well sums up the reasons to make most of the stupidest videos on this or any other my channels :D
Say gex
This reads more like something from ChatGPT than a human intellectual.
verbosity with no substance@@dtemp132
@@dtemp132 it totally is GPT based. No question.
Consider chilling your tools before you start. You can still keep them above 0c to keep the water liquid in the beginning. Having the temperature start closer to freezing will help keep the water from heating up too much when you compress it.
The heat capacities and energies.. The amount of total energy of the system stays constant... Hmm..
Yea you think so. But no.
1:05 I love that one piece arc too
Please keep going on this. I don't watch very many of your videos, but this would be incredible. The higher, metastable ice forms are something I'd be incredibly interested in seeing.
I mean, you wouldn’t exactly see it
Would that even be discernible in a CT scan?
This is how Bosch will make a new diesel injection system. 1,000,000 psi injection.
Kurt Vonnegut wrote "Cat's Cradle" about a phase of ice that is "contagious" and freezes all the water on the Earth, wiping out all life. Kurt called it "Ice-9."
He got the idea from his brother's work with the Defense Dept., investigating strange ice that built up on planes pitot tubes, causing crashes. The damn stuff had a higher melting point than normal ice!
Awesome how this channel has evolved :)
As a student, i had similar ideas, but with contained explosives, that will create an "infinete" ammount of force onto the piston for a split second :D
Since Ice-VI is denser than liquid water, what will happen when you reach the critical pressure is that the water will compress some amount without increasing the pressure as the water is turned into Ice-VI, much like if you have a mixture of boiling water and steam it can change volume without changing pressure as the water boils or steam condenses. That plateau should be an indication that you've hit the critical pressure ... and, although it's hard to tell, it does look like there's a little tiny bit of a pressure plateau around the correct pressure on your gauge.
How do you make ice?
Everyone in the world: freeze water.
HPC: no no no, lemme show you.
It would be good to see a graph of force vs distance moved. Maybe combine a force signal and a displacement signal into an oscilloscope somehow. Oil on top of the water seems a good idea. You want large molecules, like a polymer... chainsaw bar oil, ways oil, etc.
trying to turn water into rock with hydraulic press*
My theory is that the steel is becoming plastic when concerning the forces involves, water is microscopically carving the steel away to get out like the canyons. My suggestion is a much less ductile material like tungsten, though you risk chipping/cracking during the interference fit.
Cemented tungsten carbide, then the steel container.
You should try again starting with ice instead of water. Maybe you can just fill the tool with water and leave it in the freezer before you use it.
I wonder if the pressure is getting so high it's deforming the steel just enough for the water to escape. Could you perhaps shape the bearing and enclosure such that, when expanded, will actually cause everything to seal up even more?
I think with a little tweaking of your plan the project might be in your sights 👁️-👁️
I mean the material of the press is likely warping and changing under such immense pressure. You really need a DAC (Diamond Anvil Cell) to properly do this kinda thing, although using conical apertures to focus the force might also help.
Hi I read some comments and did too much thinking than I should have done for this. Here's my thoughts on improvement to maybe get i7: first, concave plug end. It will direct the pressure inward instead of into the crack between plug and base. Second, freeze both the water and base. Measure the base hole diameter afters it's been frozen. Make your plug to that diameter exactly. Frozen base should also expand as it warms, equally closing the hole around the plug. And lastly, freeze the water inside for a simple reason of ice doesn't flow through water nozzles... pressure will heat it up maybe liquidifying the ice but residual cold should slow that down. You may need more pressure than the chart says as well. That likely factors in the cold temperature. That'll naturally lessen the atomical forces that create fields of repulsion between atoms. You need the increased pressure to overcome the higher energy forces. The expanding ice structural forces are already countered as part of the original equation so you can ignore that bit.
“Ah it stopped working, what the hell”💀
How about creating a sealed container that you could deform with the press? That way you don't need to worry about seals or gaskets.
The deformation would create weak points.
I have first test you did, little bits of ice came out and sat on the metal surface next to the roller bearing before it melted off.
I definitely like watching these experiments!
Oh, fascinating! Like air, when water expands it cools off, and that's probably why it froze into normal ice.
I love that you are bringing science into your videos
"Failing at Turning Water into Rock with Hydraulic Press" - I fixed it for you.
Water is incompressible so you can have a larger reservoir with a smaller bore hold to compress it. You don't need to compress all the water on itself but just reduce the volume of the chamber holding the water to the right amount(which you should be able to calculate). E.g., small long bore with large spherical chamber. Shove something in so that it causes the chamber volume to reduce which will compress the water but you are not trying to compress a large surface area of the water(which requires more pressure). E.g., your chamber could be quite large such as 1in^3 with a 2mm^2 bore. If the chamber is full of water then as long as 2mm^2*1/2/1in^3 is enough of a compression ratio then you should be able to compress it. If not you should be able to play around with the sizes to get the right amount. The way you are doing it now is that you have a large surface area that you are trying to compress with a little water. You want the opposite. A lot of water and a little surface area.
There are a lot of ideas on how to get this right. I’d say.
Used a smaller tool, like maybe the size of the end of a shot glass. Cupped bearing on the upper press tool, so it expands and seals as pressure increases.
Pre-freeze all tools and keep cooled in dry ice, Start with water freeze it into Ice Phase, and then press the ice. Keep the pressure at whatever it needs to be for however long it takes to cool to room temp. Tada. You turned water into rock using the press. If you can put a wireless temp sensor in the whole right to keep accurate of when it hits room temp that would be optimal.