Lean Mass Hper-responder here. 59 years old. I was on one meal a day, keto for 4 years. Developed Coronary artery disease with crippling angina 20 months ago. Did the research and did a 180-degree turn going to a strict whole plant-based diet with zero oils, dairy, salt, caffeine, meat, fish, or alcohol. Cut LDL from 225 to 105 mmol/L in just the first 3 weeks. After 3 months all angina symptoms were totally gone, and after 6 months blood pressure was then down to 120/80. Twenty months later today not only have I halted the disease process but clearly reversed it as I can run 12 km with no chest pain. Today LDL 70 mmol/L
CVD is not about cholesterol but about blood flow and clotting factors such as fibrinogen, factor VIII, platelets. If your blood flow or blood pressure is too high it will create an injury to your vessels and then attracts fibrinogen, platelets, etc…. Did you know that LDL is less than 1% of plaques. Did you know you have LDL is present in your blood throughout your bodybut plaques occurs where there are junctions which is close to the heart. Read dr Sloop or dr kendricks videos. Good luck
Fascinating, Mic. I didn't know about some of the studies you cited, so I have some reading to do. I'm trying to understand this and I like to hear all legit perspectives, so I appreciate this.
Just like Mic. I still dont have no answers from Mic or you why we dont have blockage everywhere in the body since LDL is spread evenly in the body. LDL is only 1% of the plaque morphology. Plaques are made of fibrinogen, red and white blood cells, platelets, lpa (which is not LDL). Please tell me how LDL start to develop a plaque???
@@TheCompleteGuitarist Everyone's biased on the internet, you can't escape it, nobody is neutral and objective. Biased doesn't always mean wrong, though. You can't really discredit something simply because it's biased. I have a bias towards not having my stuff stolen, that doesn't mean it's wrong or untrostworthy when I argue in support of laws against theft.
Mic has edited out some key things that Shawm Baker said re LDL ... how can you trust anyone who does that? Mic has lost all credibility now as far as I am concerned.
To flip the script, I should add that the vegan community should also be thankful for the discovery of LMHR as a state because leaner vegans who decide to go keto may be at risk of getting high LDL regardless of saturated fat consumption!
Not eating carbs is a bad habit? I thought sugar was considered bad for health... and quite addictive so the bad habit would be actually eating sugars isn't?
So you’re saying that you can reduce plaque in short order with PCSK9 inhibitors (your discussion around the 12 and 16-year-old with FHC) but maintaining an LDL close to 300 takes decades to show any plaque growth even under ultra sensitive detection technology like CCTA? I don’t think so. Looking forward to the one year follow up of the LMHR study. Notably, the Miami heart group in that Study had no signs of metabolic syndrome. Slightly higher BMI was not at any level of increased mortality risk and their blood pressure was excellent. If anything, both groups are rather well selected for not having substantial metabolic syndrome. Now I agree that picking people in their 50s who are manifesting zero coronary calcium after almost 5 years with an LDL average of ~300 are exceptions to the rule, kind of like smokers who live to 100. But the point is still taken that not everybody has the same risk at the same level of LDL and if one is otherwise in excellent metabolic health, and has a zero coronary artery calcium score, it might not be the best benefit to risk Analysis to simply put them on a statin (which I take a low-dose along with low-dose Zetia, for full disclosure). Rather, follow them closely and intervene when the benefit clearly outweighs the risk, even this elevated LDL group, as there hasn’t been any strong data proving statin reduction in mortality in primary prevention adequate to put someone with a zero artery calcium score in otherwise excellent metabolic health that can be guaranteed to benefit from intervention at that time, rather than being closely monitored. practically speaking I would include carotid artery ultrasound as it is non-radiating and easy to repeat regularly. And, to be clear, I would personally be nudging them more towards a plant predominant flexitarian pattern but without pushing or arrogantly pretending I am a G-O-D when I’m am just a D-O-C.
I don't understand the emphasis on total and hdl/ldl cholesterol as a risk factor when apparently many people who have normal cholesterol have heart attacks and the actuarial tables/risk calculators weigh age, gender, smoking far greater than cholesterol levels. If everyone is going die plus or minus 3 years due to heredity, then going 100% vegan would mainly be about saving animals and the environment (which is HUGE dont get me wrong) as opposed to health. Am i missing something here? Of course, quality of life matters, but do we need to be 100% vegan to reap the benefits?
"I don't understand the emphasis on total and hdl/ldl cholesterol as a risk factor when apparently many people who have normal cholesterol have heart attacks" This is based on faulty way of assessing "normal cholesterol" levels--ones grounded more in culture than science. Because westerners eat such high fat diets that raise their LDL so much, "normal" LDL is America, used to be as high as 160, then it dropped to 130, and then 100. All of these cutoffs are known by scientists to be too high--the physiologically normal range for LDL is more like 30-70, and the higher you go above 70, more and more plaque forms and more and more CVD events happen. That is why the best-known study showing that many people having heart attacks has SUPPOSEDLY normal LDL levels also pointed out that maybe it was time to lower the threshold for what we label as a normal or OK LDL level. Another thing to know about LDL levels and heart attacks is that many people have heart attacks in the 60-70s, and at that time, LDL levels drop naturally due to aging, so someone who presents at the hospital with supposedly normal LDL levels after a heart attack may have highly elevated levels for many previous decades... and those elevated levels gave them the plaque that caused the heart attack.
I am still looking for someone to give me the name of 3 professional athletes, with world records, and proven longevity, who consume meat only diets. There are lists of vegan athletes at the top of their respective sports. They all work with the best nutritionists on earth
Our ancestors without whom we wouldn't be here is a pretty good indicator that a diet consisting of primarily red meat is in fact rather healthy for a human being.
🤣😂🤣 and the three athletes tops in their respective sports are??? Ask Conor McGregor how that steak worked out for him. Your delusional, have gut dysbiosis at some stage, and are misled. You are what you eat and consuming dead things leads to premature death, disease, and aging@@notyourdad
You do realise that 75% of heart disease is caused by being over weight and or diabetic right? Solve that problem and heart disease becomes the 10th biggest killer. Pretty much a small problem.
@@damienroberts934 "You do realise that 75% of heart disease is caused by being over weight and or diabetic right? Solve that problem and heart disease becomes the 10th biggest killer." Uhh, obesity and diabetes cause elevated LDL, and a mountain of research--including in fat and slim people and people with diabetes--proves that elevated LDL is causal in heart disease. Keep people's LDL in the healthy range for a lifetime, and arterial plaques simply don't form--even if they have traditional risk factors such as obesity and diabetes.
@@mrdavester How does a carb restricted environment make any difference? LDL above 100 has been shown over and over again to cause atherosclerosis, the only variable is the timeline.
@@phearz0r oh im sure you know what happens as we live every second of every day. age = oxidation = eating = living, etc. to say we eat oxidative agents would mean were weren't oxidating constantly already. its a mechanism of living. its about reduction of oxidation. full blown prevention isn't possible. certain foods and activities make it worse than others.
I ate the standard American diet for 46 years. I was 325lbs and had to get a triple bypass. I went on keto and now I'm at 235lbs. Everyone is slugging it out over who's eatting lifestyle is better. I don't care if you go vegan, keto or any other change in eatting habits.In both camps the people are ten times healthier than what most people eat in their everyday lives. The message from both aspects should be, do something, just get off the Standard American Diet!! It's so much worse than anything else.
I understand that people are frustrated about that Shawn Baker edit but if you actually watch my video instead of just listening to Shawn like every is doing, you will realized that his clip was meant to be a quick summation of the main point of the report and his call to spread it, not an extended section of Shawn's nuances. The video is NOT about Shawn, it is about the report and the 20+, actually peer-reviewed studies I used to respond to it. The drama about the editing is a distraction to ignore my days of research.
@@MictheVegan you got caught with your hand in the cookie jar Mic. Instead of apologizing what you have done, you keep justifying it, this makes it even worse.
So basically your argument is that because the study did not correct for BMI and exercise, the absence of plaque could be explained by exercise and leanness? Wouldn’t that suggest then that LDL is not the primary driver of CAD since despite extremely high levels and duration of exposure to LDL, plaque was prevented through means other than LDL reduction? This is kind of the whole point of studying this population isn’t it?
"So basically your argument is that because the study did not correct for BMI and exercise, the absence of plaque could be explained by exercise and leanness?" No, his point was also very clearly that the study was too short to identify expected changes in plaque at the lower average levels of LDL that the study would up following. AND his point was that the exclusion criteria may have weeded out people for who high fat diets were already giving them progressively worsening atherosclerosis.
Yeah it's really crazy that people are taking the headline and running with it. The authors themselves say high LDL is bad for 99% of people. It's only the LMHR group (which is not most people) where they think higher LDL is non-causal.
how can be LDL causal of something and the the same time not cause any effect to some people? Are they immune to LDL effects? Maybe we can take a look to the causal studies that demonstrate and explain how LDL causes heart diseases... ah, no, they don't exist...
You CLEARY miss the point as to what is happening here. LMHR are NOT a genetic anomaly - they are people who have adjusted their metabolism to burn ketones as opposed to glucose -- and likely anyone can do it, if they are willing to adjust their diet. As such, the circulating lipids are used up as energy before they drive LDL that is deposited in the arteries. For people who eat higher carbs loads, they derive their energy from the carbs and as such the fat (cholesterol) DOES get deposited on their arteries because the fat is NOT getting converted to ketones and used as energy. The Womens Heart study showed that metabolic syndrome (i.e., insulin resistance due to too much glucose in the blood), is FAR more significant as far as heart disease goes when compared to high LDL - and I mean HUGELY more significant. No one is arguing that LDL deposited in the arteries is not good - what is being debated here is, under what conditions that actually happens. Vegans might not like the science - but science does not care what vegans (or carnivores) like.
@@trentriver You're way off the mark on everything I said. I never said it wasn't achievable by people. I said if you have high LDL and think you are ok because you think you are a LMHR, you probably aren't. Everyone involved says it is a very low percentage of the population. It is a very specific criteria. For most of the population LDL is still a very relevant marker. And yes, there are thousands of things you can do to improve your health which improves your cardiovascular risk. Improving insulin resistance of course improves health in all areas. That just is irrelevant to this discussion. Which is that LDL is relevant for pretty much everyone in normal society. Nothing you said is an argument against that. It's just tangential stuff.
If high LDL is not the cause of heart disease in 1% of cases, it is not the cause, period - it may be a contributing factor, but it cannot be the cause, because if it were, it would, you guessed it, cause it, every time, that's what cause means. You simply cannot make the claim that LDL causes heart disease when it clearly doesn't always do that - I don't see anyone saying that high LDL cannot contribute to heart disease, only that it's not the cause, meaning, it alone cannot give you heart disease, you need other factors to contribute as well in order for heart disease to develop so focusing on LDL and blaming LDL is nonsensical and counterproductive.
It's because high Apob is the cause of heart disease. It's a little wacky but LDL is a round about way of testing for Apob. It's technically possible to be in the risk category for LDL but not for Apob. Nutrition made simple has a great video explaining this concept in way better detail.Just look up nutrition made simple Apob, I encourage it as he sites all of his sources if you're skeptical about his claims you can go to their sources. However, something can be casual and still not occur 100% of the time, due to confounding variables and the such, I'm no statistician but let's be honest here, we are all aware of this fact.
Another potential flaw - the imaging techniques used. CAC is a late stage marker, while CCTA only images the arterial lumen, but heart disease starts in the arterial wall, and doesn't progress to the lumen for a long time. So essentially both techniques are blind to earlier atherosclerosis. These issues have been suggested by cardiologist Dr Alo (Mohammed Alo) - he has a podcast on the LHMR study and a follow up one on cardiac imaging techniques
@@defeqel6537 Yes but two points. Firstly, it takes decades for heart disease to develop so unlikely to see it after just one year (as per Mic's comments, even with the worst form of FH (homozygous) it takes a quite a while to show). Secondly, that is partially my point - while there may have been very early soft plaque development in the LMHRs, you wouldn't see it with the imaging modalities used. So it could be there starting but it looks like nothing is happening
@@llicit1833 this wasn't about heart disease, but plaque build up, which is behind (some) heart disease. When you have 6 times the concentration of LDL, the progression should be noticeable after a year, but it was zero. At the very least, there seems to be more to the story than simply LDL.
@@defeqel6537 ??? Was using using heart disease synonymously with plaque build up / atherosclerosis, and have already explained a couple of times why you might not see progression (even if is actually there)
Nice job of editing the Dr Shawn Baker video. I watched his original video and thought you left some important info out because I clearly remember him pointing out that you can not say "LDL cholesterol does not matter." It appears to me you deliberately left that out for a reason, please explain. I'm not here to put down vegans, if it works for you I'm happy, but please stop the anti meat crusade. Vegans and Carnivores alike know the real risk to humans is ultra processed food.
Yeah, that's a valid point since he says in other context high LDL causes CAD. I originally had his sentences before and after that statement but his rate of talking was just too slow for me to leave it in, especially in the intro. I think how he specifies lean, metabolically healthy people that he implies that LDL causes CAD in people who aren't those things. But that's a major point of my video, that the data isn't strong enough to show that LDL isn't causal in lean, metabolically healthy people. Thanks.
@@MictheVegan What you did was EXTREMELY unethical. Your channel should be terminated. Also there's NO study that can show a causal relationship between LDL and any negative health outcomes so that's more misinformation from you.
These people are "whistling through the graveyard". I know this is anecdotal and only N of 1, but I personally know a guy who was being treated for high cholesterol with statins and talked about getting the doctor to allow him to take a hiatus from the treatment. A few years later he had to have a sextuple bypass open heart surgery. I learned from his wife they had been on a keto diet. Just sayin' 😮
Was the person diabetic? 93% correlation between diabetes and and CVD. Also curious if they had a pot-belly. A pot-belly is a red-flag to not being metabolically healthy.
@@adriansrfr No diabetes, just high cholesterol. No pot-belly; outwardly seemingly in good shape - an avid tennis player. No doubt people with diabetes have an increased risk of CVD mortality: 2 to 4 fold. However, a large study in Europe found that 30% of CVD patients had diabetes which, of course, means 70% did not. I myself have CVD, but never had diabetes.
@@ErnieMayberry Hemoglobin A1c Is Associated With Increased Risk of Incident Coronary Heart Disease Among Apparently Healthy, Nondiabetic Men and Women- Journal of the American Heart Association “Our findings suggest that HbA1c is associated with CHD risk among apparently healthy, nondiabetic women and men and may be an important early clinical marker of disease risk.”
@@dmmcmah1 I think that's just indicating that not only is full-blown diabetes a CHD risk factor, but so is prediabetes levels HbA1c. H1bAc is just a test marker. It is only bad if higher than normal levels or rising over time. Maybe that is more clearly detailed in the Abstract. As for the individual I was talking about, I have no clue to what his H1bAc is/was. I just know he did not have diabetes. As for me, my H1bAc was normal levels when I had my MI in 2006, but my LDL cholesterol was 135. After 10 years on a plant-based diet, my total cholesterol is 120 and LDL 60. My cartoid arteries have cleared of observable plaque. My H1bAc is still normal.
How angry will these poor carnivores be when colon cancer or heart disease catches up with them? Being totally duped while trying to be healthy is criminal.
@@RoughNeckDeltaThere was a woman who got a stroke on carnivore, Mic even did a video on it and the carnivore community even made a video on it... Claiming they just did the carnivore diet wrong... 😂😂 No, the whole thing is wrong as it is!!
@@richardcardinale7152You mean ex junk food eaters, who tried giving up,meat first, then reintroduced meat and gave up white flour, high sugar load, a hundred suspect food additives and they they felt better on a mostly meat diet for a few years. I prefer to look at the populations in the world that live longer and have higher quality life in their later years. It’s not high meat consumers.
I understand that people are frustrated about that Shawn Baker edit but if you actually watch my video instead of just listening to Shawn like every is doing, you will realized that his clip was meant to be a quick summation of the main point of the report and his call to spread it, not an extended section of Shawn's nuances. The video is NOT about Shawn, it is about the report and the 20+, actually peer-reviewed studies I used to respond to it. The drama about the editing is a distraction to ignore my days of research.
the LMHR group LDL was close to 300. Why do you keep saying 190? That’s simply the low end cut off for the definition of LMHR. It’s a bit disingenuous when you’ve actually shown the LMHR average in this episode at 3:30 to be 272, and non-HDL of 278. Conversely, as a flexitarian doc who is very friendly to low saturated fat, low to no dietary cholesterol, high fiber, past president of the national board of physician nutrition specialists and past associate medical director of the (both flexitarian and vegan friendly) Pritikin longevity center, that I would’ve preferred that IVUS (intravascular ultrasound) be utilized to make sure that there isn’t athero growth“backward into” the artery wall (which can happen initially) or compensatory arterial dilation, which would make the lumen look open on CT angiography. But fair is fair on both sides.
"Why am I healthy, fit, strong and fast if I eat a lot of animal products?" Most people who are healthy, strong, and fast in this society are also developing worsening heart disease and about half will develop cancer in their lifetimes.
@@JK-vc7ie The point is this: All other factors being equal, people get better overall long-term health outcomes when they replace processed and animal foods with more whole plant foods instead. Of course someone can be strong or run fast eating all sorts of diets, but I know people who ran dozens of marathons but have extensive calcified plaques in their arteries. Of course some meat eaters may be able to lift heavy weights, but many people who can lift heavy weights are not so healthy on the inside. You may personally never develop any major chronic disease (and I hope you don't), but nutrition science isn't about N=1 examples, it is about overall long-term trends across populations. George Burns smoked cigars until age 100, but that doesn't magically prove that smoking is healthy. Unfortunately, there are multiple mechanisms by which high consumption of red meat and saturated animal fat lead to higher rates of disease on average than does eating healthier alternatives. Take care--and keep enjoying the football games.
Funny thing about BMI as well is if they were more sedentary that BMI would contain a greater average body fat % as more muscular subjects despite having a higher BMI would have a lower body fat % in general.
The LMHR argument is ridiculous using it for large groups. Such a specific group of people. Might as well use George Burns and anyone else that live into their 90's or later while also smoking and drinking as the reason that everyone can smoke and drink and not worry about cancer, liver disease, artery disease, etc.
It is very specific, but it is also just nonsense. My dad is actually underweight. Eats a pretty standard 'reasonably healthy' diet, but has had 2 stents and heart medication has kept him alive. Because: high LDL cholesterol. He was never overweight. He was always in excellent shape. Now in his late 70s, he's slowing down a bit, but can still bike for 90 minutes. I wouldn't call it familiar high cholesterol, because diet clearly makes a difference ( in me and my brothers). My point: yes, being overweight is an independent risk factor. But some people have high LDL despite not being overweight, and they will get heart problems, unless they do something about it.
@@k.h.6991 , curious if they have visceral fat. A person can be "normal" weight or even underweight, but if they have that pot belly, then they are not metabolically healthy.
I hope that guy with the diarrhoea saw a doctor. It’s seriously dangerous to have prolonged diarrhoea for like that. One can become depleted in electrolytes, which can potentially cause heart issues or even be fatal.
Been vegan now for 5 years now very very ill and been taken to hospital 5 times this year, please help, doctors say I have malnutrition issues, is this diet killing me?
It’s fascinating that on the clip your showing of Shawn Baker was clearly manipulated to fit your agenda. I hope people actually watched Shawn’s entire clip so you aren’t being mislead by this person, Mic. I’m sure he will delete my comment like he always does. Because Mic is not an open minded individual.
The Shawn Baker edit is not the main event here: The main event here is that this study proves nothing about too-high LDL being safe for anyone, and dozens of better experimental studies prove it isn't.
I understand that people are frustrated about that Shawn Baker edit but if you actually watch my video instead of just listening to Shawn like every is doing, you will realized that his clip was meant to be a quick summation of the main point of the report and his call to spread it, not an extended section of Shawn's nuances. The video is NOT about Shawn, it is about the report and the 20+, actually peer-reviewed studies I used to respond to it. The drama about the editing is a distraction to ignore my days of research.
I have familial Hypercholesteremia, my LDL has been over 300 my entire life even as a vegan that limits all fats. I now take statins, because I have calcified plaques considered advanced heart disease. I only wish I would have started statins sooner as now my LDL is around 70.
I'm sorry to hear that, the question remains, what role did the LDL play in the development of your heart disease and are the statins actually doing anything about the disease progression or simply lowering LDL, which no on is disputing statins actually do, what's in dispute is if lowering LDL on its own has any actual benefit if nothing else about lifestyle/diet is addressed.
Why wouldn't high LDL be safe for people with plaque and thus unethical? Isn't their whole point that keto doesn't cause that plaque and high LDL is fine?
Humans have evolved on saturated fat for literally millions of years just because we decided it's bad in the past hundred or so years doesn't make it so.
I'm glad you brought up the trans-fat issue. I never heard of trans-fat as harmful except from seed oils. I had to research it and yes, animal fat does contain trans-fat; however, not all trans-fat is the same. If you research, animal trans-fat is created by bacteria and is actually healthy. I appreciate you bringing this up as I never would have known this.
You are wrong there. It has nothing to do if an oil is a seed oil or not if there are trans fats. All oils that are refined contain a little amount of trans fats. That can be sunflower oil but also olive oil. Cold pressed oils do not contain trans fats, including sunflower, canola etc … Look out for that.
@@adriansrfr Refined olive oil does contain residual trans fat and is highly processed- no seed oil. EVOO is the cold pressed version, less processed, no trans fat. Refined canola oil is the highly processed version, containing residual trans fat. Cold pressed canola oil is less processed does not but is more expensive. The trans fats are created in the refining process through partly hydrogenation. They get removed, but residuals remain. You‘ll find that in margarines and refined oils of any kind. I avoid those products. I also avoid anything deep fried. Reheating oil over and over creates trans-fats.
A lot of you are understandably coming at me for having such a short clip of Shawn. To be fair to Shawn in that video he does say that LDL causes atherosclerosis in metabolically unhealthy people. However, the point I am making is a direct response to his sentence, that this study doesn't disprove that LDL causes plaque in so called metabolically healthy people. I would say that high LDL means you are not metabolically healthy and as I mentioned, heterozygous FH people who have *13x the risk of CAD and 3x the risk of death* would have shown the same results over 4.7 years. Either way, Shawn was simply an example of the message being spread, his opinions bear no weight on the validity of the report so you can't use my edits as some twisted of stamp of dismissal for the actual argument. I should also add that the assumption that high HDL is protective in this context is further called into question by the risk of high HDL oxidizing and high HDL risk studies. A 2022 study that I didn't include found that HDL levels >80 mg/dl (Exact LMHR cutoff) were associated "...with increased risk of all-cause death (Hazard ratio [HR] 1.11, confidence interval [CI] 1.03 to 1.20, p = 0.005) and cardiovascular death (HR 1.24, CI 1.05 to 1.46, p = 0.01)..." The issue is particularly focused on men with twice the risk of CVD death and most LMHR people are men: "In gender-stratified analyses, such associations were only observed in men (all-cause death HR 1.79, CI 1.59 to 2.02, p
I was looking at an interview by Paul saladino regarding this study. The interviewee said that most of the times patient with higher cholesterol needs statin and that the study's second phase is pending. Till now first phase just shows that's cholesterol's risk to cause atherosclerosis is modulated by other factors. There are conditions which execerbate cholesterol risk eg insulin insensitivity, genetics. Further research is needed to find more conditions and contexts to quantify how much damage cholesterol is going to do. This study is only for totally metabolic healthy people only not for average Joe. Also second phase is pending. So saying that cholesterol is not a risk factor on keto diet is total misrepresentation.
I think the point is to find out if higher LDL over time shows plaque in arteries. I have to do cholesterol testing and multiple studies because of my risk. My LDL and cholesterol is a bit like glucose, it varies significantly depending on what’s going on at that time. When I fast for a long time it goes up, when I exercise it goes up depending on my diet. If I’m eating a lot of carbs it goes back down, but then my glucose shoots up on monitor. Same as in mornings waking up, I get dawn effect, and hour later my glucose drops 20 points. What I’m saying is the numbers move around a lot from what I’ve noticed, if you really want solid information you have to go look inside your arteries and organs.
I've been near LMHR or at LMHR for five years from eating a 95% animal-based diet. I'm pain-free. No more gout, and stage 3a kidney disease stabilized, I've returned my CPAP machine, and I'm psoriasis-free. Mic wants this theory to be wrong so that animals lives are spared. It's a good motive. I want to do what's best for my health.
"Mic wants this theory to be wrong so that animals lives are spared. It's a good motive. I want to do what's best for my health." Speaking as a researcher, and ignoring all animal rights issues, Feldman's study is too flawed to prove anything. Period. Doing good research is hard and although Feldman seems like a good guy, he's not a trained researcher and doesn't understand that what he has here is nothing. There's a very sound reason why that one researcher bailed out on this study. P.S. That's absolutely wonderful about your health progress, but the same things have been achieved on diets that are dominated by whole plant foods and that are very low in fat. The differences is that WFPB diets very low in fat have a record of stopping and even reversing serious heart disease, and diets high in fat do not.
@@greganthonysanchez3416 The point is that FAR FEWER animals get killed. Eating meat, including fish, has been THE #1 most eco-destructive human activity ever in that it has required us to overfish the oceans and raise billions of heads of livestock (which is THE #1 most ecodestructive thing that humans have done to land ecosystems and biodiversity). Similarly, research clearly shows that switching to a vegan/low animal foods diet is THE #1 most beneficial "shovel-ready" strategy for simultaneously reducing emissions, restoring enormous swaths of wilderness, allowing biodiversity to rebound sharply on land and in the oceans, reduce use of freshwater, and sequester hundreds of billions of tons of CO2 underground and in the foliage of those swaths of re-wilded and re-forested land. Meanwhile, you prevent ~90 direct deaths of animals per year on a vegan diet, so I've prevented the slaughter of ~1000 livestock animals in the last 11 years on a vegan diet plus lots of wildlife.
@@adamarmstrong9408 It has nothing to do with the study being "wrong:" Speaking as a university researcher, the study has too many weaknesses to prove anything about high LDL being safe for even this small sliver of the population, let alone the general public. Even their own conclusions are muted--it's just that people in the blogosphere, in a case of wishful thinking, have blown up the study to supposedly mean much more than it does.
To my thinking the greatest flaw of the study is equating granular results with decades of study after study showing the link between CVD and LDL's. Granular results require more guessing and that always introduces error.
I understand that people are frustrated about that Shawn Baker edit but if you actually watch my video instead of just listening to Shawn like every is doing, you will realized that his clip was meant to be a quick summation of the main point of the report and his call to spread it, not an extended section of Shawn's nuances. The video is NOT about Shawn, it is about the report and the 20+, actually peer-reviewed studies I used to respond to it. The drama about the editing is a distraction to ignore my days of research.
When I skim the comments under the boobtube videos about diet and health I always see people telling similar stories. That being I was on the other extreme diet and it was a disaster but now that I'm on the complete opposite extreme diet things are going great for me. Maybe these people are like the people who move from one crazy religion to the next when the best answer is becoming an atheist!
A quick question to vegans, because that's something I couldn't figure out: Why do vegans need to buy supplements? Isn't a normal human diet supposed to cover all our nutritional needs? Thank you.
"Why do vegans need to buy supplements? Isn't a normal human diet supposed to cover all our nutritional needs? Thank you." Why do omnivores eat beef that has been injected with B12--or have as many or more micronutrient deficiencies than vegans do. I have no idea what words like "normal" are supposed to mean: A well-managed vegan diet is super healthy for humans and it is the healthiest diet for the planet.
@@HealingLifeKwiklyI've never heard about meat that has vitamins injected, at least not in the EU - would you say this is a common practice, can you please provide evidence? I had to drink B12 for years, before starting a keto diet, and it was usually in the low range. Now my levels are higher without supplements, after half an year of this diet. Also, meat doesn't make me horribly sleepy, like all B12 forms I've tried.
@@randombitsofreality "Also, meat doesn't make me horribly sleepy, like all B12 forms I've tried." I'm curious, drinking a cup of fortified soymilk makes you tired? A B12 pill dissolved under your tongue once a week makes you tired?! They've been injecting cattle with B12 for a long time, just google it. Unfortunately, meat poses other problems. Take care.
@@canesugar911 Which omnivores are you referring to? If you are talking about humans, I would say we are carnivores, who can stomach plants in emergencies or to add a small variety to our foods. A proper diet shouldn't need any supplements, as it has all nutrients. Or are you talking about horses? You can call them omnivores, because they also eat meat. But I would say they are herbivores that occasionally eat meat as a variety for their diets. In which case they also shouldn't need supplements.
I have been 27 years on keto, I measured my coronary calcium score nearly four years ago and was zero, I have just got tested again, waiting for the result . My LDL generally approaches 200 mmol/L, that is my only "bad health metric" according to the current medical establishment. I changed my diet in 1996 because of health reasons (allergies) which improved after eliminating sugar and starches. Six years ago I went a step further and eliminated all plants from my diet, which immediately translated in better digestion and overall well being
The MAJORITY of men have CAC scores of zero into their 40s, despite the fact that we know that almost all of them have progressively worsening heart disease. Don't read too much into your CAC score.
Happy New Year, Mr. Mik! 💫 I wish you well. Your content is entertaining and helpful. 🌞 I looked, but I don't see that you have done a video on the benefits or disadvantages of garlic. Is it better raw or cooked? You've probably covered this, but I just didn't see it. 🕊️
I got great results on keto. Lost weight, felt great, got lipid panel back and for the first time in my life had values outside the ordinary. I do eat meat, so it wasn't like I was vegan before. Still am not. Vegetarian. Perhaps people can do keto safely. I'm not one of them.
Probably very few have read the report. If you had you would see that the author states that only about 25% of the population are lmhr and that the other 75% do need to worry about their ldl levels.
I look at this community and it's stories and wonder WHY they do this to themselves. At 63 I THRIVE on a WFPB diet based around beans, get plenty of protein and fibre with LDL and triglycerides low 70s and glycogen stores charged up ready for exercise. I went WFPB over 40 years ago and am so glad I did, It was not rocket science.
I understand that people are frustrated about that Shawn Baker edit but if you actually watch my video instead of just listening to Shawn like many of you are doing, you will realized that his clip was meant to be a quick summation of the main point of the report and his call to spread it, not an extended section of Shawn's nuances. The video is NOT about Shawn, it is about the report and the 20+, actually peer-reviewed studies I used to respond to it. The drama about the editing is a distraction to ignore my days of research.
Yes, and I popped out an artifical light which makes me look more pale than the video a week before because there was a snow storm. Oh well, people see what they want. They are just copy and parroting Shawn Baker's like good little meat sheep.@@alex_stanley
All I get from these study is that if you are lean, have HDL and TG in healthy ranges, a high LDL is likely not harmful for you. If you are an obese, smoker, diabetic with high LDL then you are in trouble for sure, but still high LDL is probably the least of your problems.
"All I get from these study is that if you are lean, have HDL and TG in healthy ranges, a high LDL is likely not harmful for you" No, the study proves no such thing: As the video demonstrated, you need decades of data to determine whether or not elevated LDL was followed by more plaque/CVD events. The study was too flawed--and in multiple ways--to prove anything.
@@HealingLifeKwikly hi Karl. I know the study doesn't proves that, which is why I inserted the word "likely" in my comment. Fortunately, this study is planned to run for at least 5 years, so we may have better answers in the near future.
@@Mario-forall Hi Mario. I will still say it doesn't likely prove anything one way or another and in 5 more years, it still won't. Feldman seems like a nice guy, but it didn't deserve to be funded.
@@HealingLifeKwikly you usually have reasonable points, however stating that some scientific research shouldn't be funded/conducted is plain anti-scientific. May I ask why do you think this topic is not worth researching?
@@Mario-forall "however stating that some scientific research shouldn't be funded/conducted is plain anti-scientific." Perhaps you misunderstand my point so I'll try to make it clearer: As designed and executed, this study can't answer the questions it purports to address--and which were likely the reasons why low-carbers are so excited about the study. There are limited funding dollars, so I will call a study that can't answer the questions people are interested in not worth funding. I'd be totally supportive of a decades high quality and long study on the health effects of keto diets--including for subgroups of the keto population.
Hi Mic -- I've been going to gym since a year and been consuming plenty of protein. I want you to make a detailed video on how much protein we really need and if we can make good muscles with with vegan diet and what are the differences in vegan diet proteins and animal sources based protein, and what kind of diet is healthier and relatively safer to build muscles, with nuances if someone wants to lose weight or gain weight.
Have you watched 'The Game Changers' yet? Most people get far too much protein. Have you looked up the side effects of too much protein? Our largest and most muscular land animals are vegan after weaning. ✌️
I dunno why you're so bothered Mike, my cholesterol has been high for more than 20 years, I am closing in on 60 and I am playing football with kids half my age and still one of the fittest and fastest on the field. It was high when I was vegan and it didn't change when I came off being a vegan. I'd worry more about your own health, you're looking a little pasty there. As for LDL, why do you think something the body makes is bad for you? Is saliva bad for you or bone marrow or red blood cells? The body makes all those! You're looking in the wrong place if you think LDL causes heart disease. You know, like blaming firemen for starting fires. That analogy works really well. As for the studies, there are a massive amount of studies that show niether high cholesterol nor lowering cholesterol has any significant outcome on mortality, the reverse in some cases. It only takes one black swan to prove not all swans are black, there is no such thing as a paradox in science, it means the hypothesis is wrong. And there are plenty of black swans out there. If you want to help people, work on helping them grow all their own food, because let's face it, if we're herbivores it should be possible to easily obtain all the plant food we need in our back garden right? Good luck with that, I mean seriously .... good luck with that!!! and debunked? Is that a scientific term or a conspiracy theorist youtuber who in 10 minutes manages to find the flaws in years of studies. What's your PhD in again?
why take the chance dad, why are you risking getting a heart attack when you just dont have to. i dont get it. meat must taste too good i guess. there no other real explanation isent there. its your life daddyo. lol
A bit of apples to oranges comparison. When you’re talking about 30 to 40 years, you’re talking about clinically manifestat atherosclerosis. It is not the same as looking at a coronary CT angiography where even minuscule amounts of plaque growth can be detected well before symptomatic.
So many carnivores aren’t LMHR, their triglycerides are crazy high OR they’re heavy. So even if the study is correct, which I think it will be, you must meet ALL the criteria of being a LMHR. If you don’t, you shouldn’t ignore that you are NOT a LMHR and therefore eating carnivore may well harm you. Also Dave Feldman is a very disciplined eater, not many people can control themselves the way he appears to.
I think the point is to stop blaming LDL when it is clear that LDL alone cannot and will not cause heart disease, it may be a contributing factor in the right circumstances but it is not THE cause as it alone means exactly nothing and as such is not predictive of heart disease development and should therefore not be villainized.
@@notyourdad This is such a misleading statement to make, because there is absolutely a correlation between heart disease and LDL. Even if LDL itself might not be what's causing the harm, it is clear that high LDL is correlated with a higher risk of heart disease. If your LDL is high, you are at higher risk than what you would have been if your LDL was lower, so doing things that reduce your LDL will be a positive development for your risk of heart disease. There's so much science backing this up, regardless of whether LDL is causative or not. It doesn't matter whether you "blame" the LDL or not, the fact remains that lowering your LDL also reduces your risk of heart disease.
@@notyourdad the point is that true LMHR can quit blaming LDL, the rest of us need to know it indicates heart problems accruing. I can’t emphasize enough what a narrow set of criteria LMHR is and how many people are fooling themselves about meeting those criteria. The other point is that high LDL means nothing when you’re younger but year after year of it…
@@realmarsastro Except that your assertion is incorrect. That fact that someone's LDL is high indicates that it MIGHT be an issue, meaning it also might not be an issue at all, which means that an elevated LDL level can't actually inform on the risk of any one individual because you don't know if the raised LDL is an actual problem for that particular individual or not - the risk of developing heart disease might be exactly zero despite having elevated LDL depending on the person. Additionally, if you want to talk about correlation, maybe have a look at the biggest meta analysis available that clearly shows that LOWER LDL is correlated with HIGHER all cause mortality - how does this fit into your world view where higher LDL is a problem?
The idea that LMHR people in the Keto community are ‘special’ strikes me as being very narcissistic. We only have to look at the long term trends in low carb, keto & carnivore. They die well before they should.
Thank you for keeping the good work Sharing non bias research studies and educating people around the world that we don’t need to consume a lot of animal products in order to be strong and healthy.
Absolutely. It boggles my mind how mainstream the carnivore diet has become. This wouldn’t be considered healthy by any significant number of people - let alone healthcare providers - 20 years ago. Now, people are taking on serious health risks, thinking it’s healthy to eat nothing but meat, and possibly some dairy and eggs. It’s insane. I’m vegan and am subscribed to a lot of vegan YT channels. I’ve never sought out info on the carnivore diet or any sort of low-carb diet. And yet, YT keeps pushing these videos on me. The algorithm should know that I’m not the audience for this content.
My LDL and total was steadily going up (119 and 225) and weight loss stalled on whole foods low-carb. After 4 months whole foods vegan my ldl is now at 57 and total is 133. 😊
Shawn Baker's channel already released a video addressing your response. They say you were dishonest because the part of his intro you edited out was an important nuance :(
You can't be serious, Shawn responded to his 15 seconds out of 20 minutes of a video!!! He showed less of my video than I did of his! Too bad my comment under his video disappeared into oblivion. I understand that people are frustrated about that Shawn Baker edit but if you actually watch my video instead of just listening to Shawn like every is doing, you will realized that his clip was meant to be a quick summation of the main point of the report and his call to spread it, not an extended section of Shawn's nuances. The video is NOT about Shawn, it is about the report and the 20+, actually peer-reviewed studies I used to respond to it. The drama about the editing is a distraction to ignore my days of research.
The biggest problem with carnivores is worshipping butter. I would never take any derived pure saturated fat. Something like 7% fat beef is fine occasionally.
People on the carnivore diet are like flat earthers. They have an impossibly high standard of evidence to prove veganism is healthy. Yet their bar for evidence supporting their horrible diet choice is super low with no critique whatsoever.
I have to disagree. A lot of Flat Earthers are very religious, making them driven by dogma rather than evidence. A person on a carnivore diet is unshackled by the need to be in a "morally correct" position, so that would make them more objective.
@@CriticalThink On the other hand flat earthers don't have to change much about their lifestyle if they are incorrect. Just adopting a slightly different interpretation of their holy texts is enough. From carnivore (that also includes moral claims for many by the way) to a Mediterranean style diet is a very big change. Furthermore I see a lot of strange beliefs in the carnivore community (judging from the outside - videos and prominent UA-camrs) that are not evidence based about what people should do and what society should do. I'm not convinced that the classifier "religion" to some "should"-statements vs. others makes a difference.
@@tofu-munchingCoalition.ofChaos I don't think change of diet is a really big deal. To me it's just do what works for me. I'm not aware of any moral claim associated with the carnivore diet, could you give an example? I've a lot of experience dealing with flat earthers, and it is extremely difficult for them to "adopt a slightly different interpretation". That's not a good analogy at all. Also can you give an example of what you would term a strange belief that is not evidence based?
@@CriticalThink We have scientific evidence that dietary changes are hard. The adherence rate for example are extremely low (over 95% who wanted to change their diet failed; ...). You having no problems with it is good but a personal anecdote. I had no problems of changing from growing up Jehovah's witnesses to antitheist once I got interest in science. But that's not evidence that it's easy for everyone. One example of belief in the carnivore community even despite of evidence against it it that seed oils are harmful. Society should abandon seed oils is such a claim. Accompanied with a lot of rhetoric. When talking to flat earthers and carnivores I have exactly the same problems from an epistemological perspective. Just exchange the bad people (seed oils, Ancel Keys, pharma industry, Kellogg's, ... vs. devil, secular society, NASA, ...) but their epistemic basis is exactly the same.
I'm not carnivore, but I have the same standards for proving a diet is healthy, whatever the diet. The standard I have for disproving a hypothesis is lower though, as a single contradictory piece of evidence can be enough.
The tricky thing is cardio vascular disease takes time. I was paleo for 10 years (low-ish carbs and fats about 55%) and all was fine until BP started to get to 140/90 and chest pain started. 54 yo, 170 cm/68 kgs. TC - 220-240. LDL - 120-130. TG - 60-100. Went on pills and WFPB SOS free (fats 30 gr) and after 18 months BP was 105-110/70-75 and no pills. Weight down to 60 ksg (just as I was 18 yo). But TC and LDL dropped just a little - TC 190-200, LDL - 100-115. TG up and down - 130-230. Lack of salt (Cl) causing low stomach acid and all the problems with it like heartburn, chest pain, throat pain, etc. Now I am adding salt and doubling fats (to go to about 60-70 gr), taking out things like bananas and oats, to see if it can reduce TC, LDL, TG. BP does not go up after adding some small amount of salt. It used to go below 100 especially in the mornings.
"What did vegans eat during the ice age?" Who cares? How did you watch UA-cam videos during the ice age? What our ancestors ate has zero relevance for what is healthiest for humans to eat now.
I have just watched the comments about funding again. 18:21 Maybe it’s a good idea that the study sponsors should be happy at this stage. If the study is extended to say 10 years, the results could be very interesting. It would be very difficult for them to dispute long term results, given they funded it themselves and cherry picked the participants at the beginning. But, I would put good odds on the follow up study report never being published even if the data study were done and data collected. We could even have pro keto diet videos, following a longer study, arguing that maybe artery plaque isn’t a bad thing, or even lunacy like, “some of the participants cheated and ate a salad and that’s what caused the heart attack.”
I see there are many people attacking this video. But not anywhere do I see valid criticism. Is that what the health community is? Just tribalism? You don't like the video because it doesn't support your beliefs? And here I thought we were all searching for the truth. So in that respect - if you have any issue with the video, please USE EXAMPLES, be specific, cite timestamps, explain why you think Mic is wrong. So far it's like a thousand swings and a thousand misses, but I genuinely am interested in all sides of this debate as I'm sure a lot of us are.
It would be a complete waste of time. Mic is wrong in 100% of all his videos. He is just a clown. The study has pretty strong data showing no artery plaque evolution in a population with high LDL compared to a similar population with low LDL. The saturated fat haters can’t accept that LDL is not the cause of heart disease, ignoring all data that proves that hypothesis wrong
There will never be a 100% healthy diet. People need to realise that being extreme isn't the answer at all! Extremely vegan or carnivore isn't going to be a healthy choice in the long term. Vegans will always need to take supplements because they can't get their B12's from their diet and so on not to mention all the vegan highly processed food out there which isn't doing any favours to health or the environment at all. The key thing is to eat non processed foods, to cook your own meal and exercise 3-5x a week. That's it! My grandma lived up to 100 years eating meat and veg, cooking her own meals and not much time sat on a sofa watching TV. Not a rocket science! Just eat clean and keep yourself active!
Veganism isn't extreme. It's cutting out maybe 10-20 foods most commonly eaten. Animals are given B12 supplements. Essentially any diet requires supplements. Look at folate being added to foods because meat eaters don't get enough. Vitamin D deficiency is widespread. I could go on. Your grandma is an anecdote and this is irrelevant. You can find chain smokers that lived to 100.
Agree and just because you have to supplement dont make a diet unhealthy. omnivores has to supplement vitamine D. All research shows that a more plant based diet you have the longer you live.
I understand that people are frustrated about that Shawn Baker edit but if you actually watch my video instead of just listening to Shawn like many of you are doing, you will realized that his clip was meant to be a quick summation of the main point of the report and his call to spread it, not an extended section of Shawn's nuances. The video is NOT about Shawn, it is about the report and the 20+, actually peer-reviewed studies I used to respond to it. The drama about the editing is a distraction to ignore my days of research.
Good to know but I still feel like Spencer calling it the first big goof of the study is valid since it is a popular thing in the keto community to get a CAC score so the chance of these people having a CAC scan in recent years would be way higher than usual. In that sense, this would be an extra exclusion factor unique to LMHR. I could be wrong but I don't have all of the details. Thanks.
@@MictheVegan The first cardio angiogram the study did not disqualify potential participants based solely on CAC score. I do not know if other artifacts in the angiogram would have. There were disqualifications criteria. The most notable were; - you had to have hyperlipidemia at intake. - you had to have a prior blood test before you started keto diet that showed cholesterol in the normal range. - you had to pass a genetic test that indicated you did not have FH. - and there was a cutoff around the LMHR triad but not exactly the numbers online. Emphasis on low triglycerides. - there was a BMI limit. - Taking statins or metformin excluded participants. - participants needed to be in ketosis measured by daily finger prick.
@@jillengland3277 That are pretty strong criteria for exclusion and for example the second you listed that's a bigger confounder than excluding for CAC zero. How are they trying to justify this exclusion criterion especially with the comparison in mind?
@@tofu-munchingCoalition.ofChaos The definition of LMHR phenotype is that - you started with normal cholesterol numbers - You went on a serious ketogenic diet for health reasons, weight loss, BP, IR, metabolic syndrome, cancer, heart issues, MS. whatever. - After a relatively short period of time on a ketogenic diet your cholesterol HYPER-RESPONDS putting the person into the hypercholesterolemia diagnosis territory. That is the basic outline of the LMHR phenotype, and there is the triad of markers that defines it.
@@jillengland3277 That's not the definition I've found and not the definition they used in at least one presentation. Furthermore if a definition (low LDL before diet) interacts that strongly with the measured outcome, you have to use the same exclusion criterion for your control. That has not been done. I fail to see any statistical adjustment or justification for that.
It is never about LDL ALONE. almost all get this wrong, including mist doctores. It is about the ratio total cholesterol to HDL and trygiceride. Keep ur LDL between 130 and 200 and you are far healthier than all above 200 and under 130. By far. There is a new study which came out just two months ago. Enjoy your steak.
"I looked into it and there is no B12 , that's dangerous, what to do" Take a regular B12 supplement, just as the cattle omnivores eat are routinely injected with B12.
I understand that people are frustrated about that Shawn Baker edit but if you actually watch my video instead of just listening to Shawn like every is doing, you will realized that his clip was meant to be a quick summation of the main point of the report and his call to spread it, not an extended section of Shawn's nuances. The video is NOT about Shawn, it is about the report and the 20+, actually peer-reviewed studies I used to respond to it. The drama about the editing is a distraction to ignore my days of research.
Your argument makes no sense. You constantly state having high LDL causes plaque. So their LDL is much higher, so if your theory was correct they would have higher levels of plaque than people with lower levels. Obviously your theory has holes in it.
"Your argument makes no sense. You constantly state having high LDL causes plaque. So their LDL is much higher, so if your theory was correct they would have higher levels of plaque than people with lower levels. Obviously your theory has holes in it." You literally didn't watch the video, did you?
Thank you Mic, I appreciate the time you spend researching these topics and creating videos to explain detail to lesser educated individuals like myself.
I understand that people are frustrated about that Shawn Baker edit but if you actually watch my video instead of just listening to Shawn like many of you are doing, you will realized that his clip was meant to be a quick summation of the main point of the report and his call to spread it, not an extended section of Shawn's nuances. The video is NOT about Shawn, it is about the report and the 20+, actually peer-reviewed studies I used to respond to it. The drama about the editing is a distraction to ignore my days of research.
@@MictheVegan I truly appreciate your very respectful response. I do listen to both side very closely,It’s my health at risk. I have an honest question,are you ok with eating any meat? I ask this to be able to get an honest perspective to see if its eating animals is what truly bothers you. Thank you for the conversation.
Lean Mass Hper-responder here. 59 years old. I was on one meal a day, keto for 4 years. Developed Coronary artery disease with crippling angina 20 months ago. Did the research and did a 180-degree turn going to a strict whole plant-based diet with zero oils, dairy, salt, caffeine, meat, fish, or alcohol. Cut LDL from 225 to 105 mmol/L in just the first 3 weeks. After 3 months all angina symptoms were totally gone, and after 6 months blood pressure was then down to 120/80. Twenty months later today not only have I halted the disease process but clearly reversed it as I can run 12 km with no chest pain. Today LDL 70 mmol/L
Way to go 🙌🏽 smart move! I bet you feel quite a bit better now 🤌🏽
Fascinating! Congratulations!! 👏💪🎉 Did you get to 70 mmol/L without a statin, or did it take one to get there?
CVD is not about cholesterol but about blood flow and clotting factors such as fibrinogen, factor VIII, platelets. If your blood flow or blood pressure is too high it will create an injury to your vessels and then attracts fibrinogen, platelets, etc…. Did you know that LDL is less than 1% of plaques. Did you know you have LDL is present in your blood throughout your bodybut plaques occurs where there are junctions which is close to the heart. Read dr Sloop or dr kendricks videos. Good luck
@@ccamireI would say you might need the good luck.
do you do anything by half,,)
Fascinating, Mic. I didn't know about some of the studies you cited, so I have some reading to do. I'm trying to understand this and I like to hear all legit perspectives, so I appreciate this.
Love your videos sir. Got to watch the one he mentioned. Fascinating stuff! Thanks for your work.
Yah because you live in a utopian dreamscape with unicorns down at the chocolate river frolicking.
@@Veganbutchershophm?
@@Veganbutchershop How did you know?! 😀
Just like Mic. I still dont have no answers from Mic or you why we dont have blockage everywhere in the body since LDL is spread evenly in the body. LDL is only 1% of the plaque morphology. Plaques are made of fibrinogen, red and white blood cells, platelets, lpa (which is not LDL). Please tell me how LDL start to develop a plaque???
Thanks!
I did strict keto and as soon as I saw the results of my lipid panel I quit that ridiculous diet forever!!
Hmmmm I wonder how much of your own research you did? Why you did it and what you thought you’d achieve?
Same here. Keto is a cult, not science.
Good video Mic, thank you for putting your position on the record
Why dont you honour your name and eat some Berries!
Shame he's so biased.
@@TheCompleteGuitarist Everyone's biased on the internet, you can't escape it, nobody is neutral and objective. Biased doesn't always mean wrong, though. You can't really discredit something simply because it's biased. I have a bias towards not having my stuff stolen, that doesn't mean it's wrong or untrostworthy when I argue in support of laws against theft.
Mic has edited out some key things that Shawm Baker said re LDL ... how can you trust anyone who does that? Mic has lost all credibility now as far as I am concerned.
What's good about a video that edits out some key things that Shawn Baker said re LDL.
To flip the script, I should add that the vegan community should also be thankful for the discovery of LMHR as a state because leaner vegans who decide to go keto may be at risk of getting high LDL regardless of saturated fat consumption!
Vegan keto dieters? They'd have to guzzle a large glass of olive oil every meal and eat only avocados and a few nuts.
I'm not sure vegan keto is really a sustainable undertaking. What would you eat on the diet that you could keep up for the long-term?
@yogiyoda
Check out heavenly fan, long time keto vegan, and Mary's taste test kitchen
@@yogiyoda Just go online and search for 'vegan keto' or you could look at the Eco-Atkins study by Jenkins.
Look for "Heavenly Fan" 😀
As Dr. McDougall says, people want good news about their bad habits.
Not eating carbs is a bad habit? I thought sugar was considered bad for health... and quite addictive so the bad habit would be actually eating sugars isn't?
@ catherinekasmer
So true 👍
@@DanielFernandez-h3l You should be getting the majority of your calories from complex carbs which are not sugars.
@@bengilkes7676 this
@@bengilkes7676 Complex carbs are not sugars? What are they then? Proteins?
So you’re saying that you can reduce plaque in short order with PCSK9 inhibitors (your discussion around the 12 and 16-year-old with FHC)
but maintaining an LDL close to 300 takes decades to show any plaque growth even under ultra sensitive detection technology like CCTA? I don’t think so. Looking forward to the one year follow up of the LMHR study. Notably, the Miami heart group in that Study had no signs of metabolic syndrome. Slightly higher BMI was not at any level of increased mortality risk and their blood pressure was excellent. If anything, both groups are rather well selected for not having substantial metabolic syndrome.
Now I agree that picking people in their 50s who are manifesting zero coronary calcium after almost 5 years with an LDL average of ~300 are exceptions to the rule, kind of like smokers who live to 100. But the point is still taken that not everybody has the same risk at the same level of LDL and if one is otherwise in excellent metabolic health, and has a zero coronary artery calcium score, it might not be the best benefit to risk Analysis to simply put them on a statin (which I take a low-dose along with low-dose Zetia, for full disclosure). Rather, follow them closely and intervene when the benefit clearly outweighs the risk, even this elevated LDL group, as there hasn’t been any strong data proving statin reduction in mortality in primary prevention adequate to put someone with a zero artery calcium score in otherwise excellent metabolic health that can be guaranteed to benefit from intervention at that time, rather than being closely monitored. practically speaking I would include carotid artery ultrasound as it is non-radiating and easy to repeat regularly. And, to be clear, I would personally be nudging them more towards a plant predominant flexitarian pattern but without pushing or arrogantly pretending I am a G-O-D when I’m am just a D-O-C.
I don't understand the emphasis on total and hdl/ldl cholesterol as a risk factor when apparently many people who have normal cholesterol have heart attacks and the actuarial tables/risk calculators weigh age, gender, smoking far greater than cholesterol levels. If everyone is going die plus or minus 3 years due to heredity, then going 100% vegan would mainly be about saving animals and the environment (which is HUGE dont get me wrong) as opposed to health. Am i missing something here? Of course, quality of life matters, but do we need to be 100% vegan to reap the benefits?
"I don't understand the emphasis on total and hdl/ldl cholesterol as a risk factor when apparently many people who have normal cholesterol have heart attacks" This is based on faulty way of assessing "normal cholesterol" levels--ones grounded more in culture than science. Because westerners eat such high fat diets that raise their LDL so much, "normal" LDL is America, used to be as high as 160, then it dropped to 130, and then 100. All of these cutoffs are known by scientists to be too high--the physiologically normal range for LDL is more like 30-70, and the higher you go above 70, more and more plaque forms and more and more CVD events happen. That is why the best-known study showing that many people having heart attacks has SUPPOSEDLY normal LDL levels also pointed out that maybe it was time to lower the threshold for what we label as a normal or OK LDL level.
Another thing to know about LDL levels and heart attacks is that many people have heart attacks in the 60-70s, and at that time, LDL levels drop naturally due to aging, so someone who presents at the hospital with supposedly normal LDL levels after a heart attack may have highly elevated levels for many previous decades... and those elevated levels gave them the plaque that caused the heart attack.
I am still looking for someone to give me the name of 3 professional athletes, with world records, and proven longevity, who consume meat only diets. There are lists of vegan athletes at the top of their respective sports. They all work with the best nutritionists on earth
Pete Jacobs
Vince Gironda
Quade Cooper
Our ancestors without whom we wouldn't be here is a pretty good indicator that a diet consisting of primarily red meat is in fact rather healthy for a human being.
🤣😂🤣 and the three athletes tops in their respective sports are??? Ask Conor McGregor how that steak worked out for him. Your delusional, have gut dysbiosis at some stage, and are misled.
You are what you eat and consuming dead things leads to premature death, disease, and aging@@notyourdad
You know early humans ate primarily red meat... how? Anyway, what people at to survive is no indication of what is healthy. @@notyourdad
@@DanielFernandez-h3l
Is their age considered "with proven longevity" for carnivore?
Excellent video: I'd already encountered multiple low-carbers claiming this study proves that high LDL is no problem.
You do realise that 75% of heart disease is caused by being over weight and or diabetic right? Solve that problem and heart disease becomes the 10th biggest killer. Pretty much a small problem.
@@damienroberts934 "You do realise that 75% of heart disease is caused by being over weight and or diabetic right? Solve that problem and heart disease becomes the 10th biggest killer." Uhh, obesity and diabetes cause elevated LDL, and a mountain of research--including in fat and slim people and people with diabetes--proves that elevated LDL is causal in heart disease. Keep people's LDL in the healthy range for a lifetime, and arterial plaques simply don't form--even if they have traditional risk factors such as obesity and diabetes.
Because, it isn't.
No, it's about context. This is about higher ldl in a carb restricted environment. Mic has really strawmanned the argument..
@@mrdavester How does a carb restricted environment make any difference? LDL above 100 has been shown over and over again to cause atherosclerosis, the only variable is the timeline.
my diet may not be perfect but one thing i've learned that's stuck with me daily is having some form of antioxidants with food and before exercise.
have you tried not consuming oxidative agents in the first place? 🤔
@@phearz0r oh im sure you know what happens as we live every second of every day. age = oxidation = eating = living, etc. to say we eat oxidative agents would mean were weren't oxidating constantly already. its a mechanism of living. its about reduction of oxidation. full blown prevention isn't possible. certain foods and activities make it worse than others.
I ate the standard American diet for 46 years. I was 325lbs and had to get a triple bypass. I went on keto and now I'm at 235lbs. Everyone is slugging it out over who's eatting lifestyle is better. I don't care if you go vegan, keto or any other change in eatting habits.In both camps the people are ten times healthier than what most people eat in their everyday lives. The message from both aspects should be, do something, just get off the Standard American Diet!! It's so much worse than anything else.
❤
Keto is carnistic propaganda.
Can you also explain why you edited Shawn Baker’s video? Should we trust someone who plays these sneaky games to distort the truth?
I understand that people are frustrated about that Shawn Baker edit but if you actually watch my video instead of just listening to Shawn like every is doing, you will realized that his clip was meant to be a quick summation of the main point of the report and his call to spread it, not an extended section of Shawn's nuances. The video is NOT about Shawn, it is about the report and the 20+, actually peer-reviewed studies I used to respond to it. The drama about the editing is a distraction to ignore my days of research.
@@MictheVegan you got caught with your hand in the cookie jar Mic. Instead of apologizing what you have done, you keep justifying it, this makes it even worse.
Thanks for your work Mic. We all appreciate it.
So basically your argument is that because the study did not correct for BMI and exercise, the absence of plaque could be explained by exercise and leanness? Wouldn’t that suggest then that LDL is not the primary driver of CAD since despite extremely high levels and duration of exposure to LDL, plaque was prevented through means other than LDL reduction? This is kind of the whole point of studying this population isn’t it?
"So basically your argument is that because the study did not correct for BMI and exercise, the absence of plaque could be explained by exercise and leanness?" No, his point was also very clearly that the study was too short to identify expected changes in plaque at the lower average levels of LDL that the study would up following. AND his point was that the exclusion criteria may have weeded out people for who high fat diets were already giving them progressively worsening atherosclerosis.
@@HealingLifeKwiklyare you in love with mic?
Yeah it's really crazy that people are taking the headline and running with it. The authors themselves say high LDL is bad for 99% of people. It's only the LMHR group (which is not most people) where they think higher LDL is non-causal.
how can be LDL causal of something and the the same time not cause any effect to some people? Are they immune to LDL effects? Maybe we can take a look to the causal studies that demonstrate and explain how LDL causes heart diseases... ah, no, they don't exist...
You CLEARY miss the point as to what is happening here. LMHR are NOT a genetic anomaly - they are people who have adjusted their metabolism to burn ketones as opposed to glucose -- and likely anyone can do it, if they are willing to adjust their diet. As such, the circulating lipids are used up as energy before they drive LDL that is deposited in the arteries. For people who eat higher carbs loads, they derive their energy from the carbs and as such the fat (cholesterol) DOES get deposited on their arteries because the fat is NOT getting converted to ketones and used as energy. The Womens Heart study showed that metabolic syndrome (i.e., insulin resistance due to too much glucose in the blood), is FAR more significant as far as heart disease goes when compared to high LDL - and I mean HUGELY more significant. No one is arguing that LDL deposited in the arteries is not good - what is being debated here is, under what conditions that actually happens. Vegans might not like the science - but science does not care what vegans (or carnivores) like.
@@trentriver You're way off the mark on everything I said. I never said it wasn't achievable by people. I said if you have high LDL and think you are ok because you think you are a LMHR, you probably aren't. Everyone involved says it is a very low percentage of the population. It is a very specific criteria. For most of the population LDL is still a very relevant marker. And yes, there are thousands of things you can do to improve your health which improves your cardiovascular risk. Improving insulin resistance of course improves health in all areas. That just is irrelevant to this discussion. Which is that LDL is relevant for pretty much everyone in normal society. Nothing you said is an argument against that. It's just tangential stuff.
If high LDL is not the cause of heart disease in 1% of cases, it is not the cause, period - it may be a contributing factor, but it cannot be the cause, because if it were, it would, you guessed it, cause it, every time, that's what cause means. You simply cannot make the claim that LDL causes heart disease when it clearly doesn't always do that - I don't see anyone saying that high LDL cannot contribute to heart disease, only that it's not the cause, meaning, it alone cannot give you heart disease, you need other factors to contribute as well in order for heart disease to develop so focusing on LDL and blaming LDL is nonsensical and counterproductive.
It's because high Apob is the cause of heart disease. It's a little wacky but LDL is a round about way of testing for Apob. It's technically possible to be in the risk category for LDL but not for Apob. Nutrition made simple has a great video explaining this concept in way better detail.Just look up nutrition made simple Apob, I encourage it as he sites all of his sources if you're skeptical about his claims you can go to their sources. However, something can be casual and still not occur 100% of the time, due to confounding variables and the such, I'm no statistician but let's be honest here, we are all aware of this fact.
Here's an idea, Mic: Have a roundtable video call discussion with you, Plant Chompers, Dave Feldman, and Nick Norwitz.
The people who designed a study and didn't bother to match BMI in their test and control groups? LOL no need to give these fools any more attention.
Bringing up BMI in 2023 KEKW@@Amshatelia88
Another potential flaw - the imaging techniques used. CAC is a late stage marker, while CCTA only images the arterial lumen, but heart disease starts in the arterial wall, and doesn't progress to the lumen for a long time. So essentially both techniques are blind to earlier atherosclerosis. These issues have been suggested by cardiologist Dr Alo (Mohammed Alo) - he has a podcast on the LHMR study and a follow up one on cardiac imaging techniques
the argument is that with LDL levels so far above the recommendation the progression should be visible even after just a year
@@defeqel6537 Yes but two points. Firstly, it takes decades for heart disease to develop so unlikely to see it after just one year (as per Mic's comments, even with the worst form of FH (homozygous) it takes a quite a while to show). Secondly, that is partially my point - while there may have been very early soft plaque development in the LMHRs, you wouldn't see it with the imaging modalities used. So it could be there starting but it looks like nothing is happening
@@llicit1833 this wasn't about heart disease, but plaque build up, which is behind (some) heart disease. When you have 6 times the concentration of LDL, the progression should be noticeable after a year, but it was zero. At the very least, there seems to be more to the story than simply LDL.
@@defeqel6537 "... progression should be noticeable after a year ... " Because? According to ... who? And based on what criteria?
@@defeqel6537 ??? Was using using heart disease synonymously with plaque build up / atherosclerosis, and have already explained a couple of times why you might not see progression (even if is actually there)
Nice job of editing the Dr Shawn Baker video. I watched his original video and thought you left some important info out because I clearly remember him pointing out that you can not say "LDL cholesterol does not matter." It appears to me you deliberately left that out for a reason, please explain. I'm not here to put down vegans, if it works for you I'm happy, but please stop the anti meat crusade. Vegans and Carnivores alike know the real risk to humans is ultra processed food.
Yeah, that's a valid point since he says in other context high LDL causes CAD. I originally had his sentences before and after that statement but his rate of talking was just too slow for me to leave it in, especially in the intro. I think how he specifies lean, metabolically healthy people that he implies that LDL causes CAD in people who aren't those things. But that's a major point of my video, that the data isn't strong enough to show that LDL isn't causal in lean, metabolically healthy people. Thanks.
@@MictheVegan ya nasty Mic, you know you are! 😏
Yet every single keto dieter I've ever talked to will say at some point "LDL doesn't matter." Quite the contradiction there...
@@MictheVegan What you did was EXTREMELY unethical. Your channel should be terminated.
Also there's NO study that can show a causal relationship between LDL and any negative health outcomes so that's more misinformation from you.
😂😂😂😂 mic just trembling knowing his diet will leave behind by most people someday
carnivore and keto dieters are like flat-earthers....good video Mikey
Exactly
With a comment like that I would think you sound like a flat earther.
But flat earther don't die from the BS they belief in.
What does the flat earth theory have to do with ppl eating these 2 healthy diets?
@@ef9033 what is the BS and how do people die from it?
These people are "whistling through the graveyard". I know this is anecdotal and only N of 1, but I personally know a guy who was being treated for high cholesterol with statins and talked about getting the doctor to allow him to take a hiatus from the treatment. A few years later he had to have a sextuple bypass open heart surgery. I learned from his wife they had been on a keto diet. Just sayin' 😮
My ex-mother in law also had a heart attack while on a keto diet.
Was the person diabetic? 93% correlation between diabetes and and CVD. Also curious if they had a pot-belly. A pot-belly is a red-flag to not being metabolically healthy.
@@adriansrfr No diabetes, just high cholesterol. No pot-belly; outwardly seemingly in good shape - an avid tennis player.
No doubt people with diabetes have an increased risk of CVD mortality: 2 to 4 fold.
However, a large study in Europe found that 30% of CVD patients had diabetes which, of course, means 70% did not.
I myself have CVD, but never had diabetes.
@@ErnieMayberry Hemoglobin A1c Is Associated With Increased Risk of Incident Coronary Heart Disease Among Apparently Healthy, Nondiabetic Men and Women- Journal of the American Heart Association “Our findings suggest that HbA1c is associated with CHD risk among apparently healthy, nondiabetic women and men and may be an important early clinical marker of disease risk.”
@@dmmcmah1 I think that's just indicating that not only is full-blown diabetes a CHD risk factor, but so is prediabetes levels HbA1c. H1bAc is just a test marker. It is only bad if higher than normal levels or rising over time. Maybe that is more clearly detailed in the Abstract.
As for the individual I was talking about, I have no clue to what his H1bAc is/was. I just know he did not have diabetes. As for me, my H1bAc was normal levels when I had my MI in 2006, but my LDL cholesterol was 135. After 10 years on a plant-based diet, my total cholesterol is 120 and LDL 60. My cartoid arteries have cleared of observable plaque. My H1bAc is still normal.
Outstanding video, Mic 👍
How angry will these poor carnivores be when colon cancer or heart disease catches up with them? Being totally duped while trying to be healthy is criminal.
For now we mostly see ex vegans being sick and healing on the carnivore diet 😅
Nah, they'll just blame it on something else other than their diet.
Wait……. They didn’t do vegan “ correctly’
@@RoughNeckDeltaThere was a woman who got a stroke on carnivore, Mic even did a video on it and the carnivore community even made a video on it... Claiming they just did the carnivore diet wrong... 😂😂 No, the whole thing is wrong as it is!!
@@richardcardinale7152You mean ex junk food eaters, who tried giving up,meat first, then reintroduced meat and gave up white flour, high sugar load, a hundred suspect food additives and they they felt better on a mostly meat diet for a few years. I prefer to look at the populations in the world that live longer and have higher quality life in their later years. It’s not high meat consumers.
Why does he look yellow and gray at the same time? Is this some vegan super power? Let me know your secret please.
@Mic the Vegan - shame on you! Twisting Shawn Baker MD message and manipulating his video. SHAME! Dear sir, you are to be banned for this...
I understand that people are frustrated about that Shawn Baker edit but if you actually watch my video instead of just listening to Shawn like every is doing, you will realized that his clip was meant to be a quick summation of the main point of the report and his call to spread it, not an extended section of Shawn's nuances. The video is NOT about Shawn, it is about the report and the 20+, actually peer-reviewed studies I used to respond to it. The drama about the editing is a distraction to ignore my days of research.
the LMHR group LDL was close to 300. Why do you keep saying 190? That’s simply the low end cut off for the definition of LMHR. It’s a bit disingenuous when you’ve actually shown the LMHR average in this episode at 3:30 to be 272, and non-HDL of 278.
Conversely, as a flexitarian doc who is very friendly to low saturated fat, low to no dietary cholesterol, high fiber, past president of the national board of physician nutrition specialists and past associate medical director of the (both flexitarian and vegan friendly) Pritikin longevity center, that I would’ve preferred that IVUS (intravascular ultrasound) be utilized to make sure that there isn’t athero growth“backward into” the artery wall (which can happen initially) or compensatory arterial dilation, which would make the lumen look open on CT angiography. But fair is fair on both sides.
You edited out key parts of Shawn’s video. Bad form 👎🏼
Why am I healthy, fit, strong and fast if I eat a lot of animal products?
"Why am I healthy, fit, strong and fast if I eat a lot of animal products?" Most people who are healthy, strong, and fast in this society are also developing worsening heart disease and about half will develop cancer in their lifetimes.
@@HealingLifeKwikly False
@@HealingLifeKwikly I’m healthier than you are by any metric.
@@JK-vc7ie The point is this: All other factors being equal, people get better overall long-term health outcomes when they replace processed and animal foods with more whole plant foods instead. Of course someone can be strong or run fast eating all sorts of diets, but I know people who ran dozens of marathons but have extensive calcified plaques in their arteries. Of course some meat eaters may be able to lift heavy weights, but many people who can lift heavy weights are not so healthy on the inside.
You may personally never develop any major chronic disease (and I hope you don't), but nutrition science isn't about N=1 examples, it is about overall long-term trends across populations. George Burns smoked cigars until age 100, but that doesn't magically prove that smoking is healthy. Unfortunately, there are multiple mechanisms by which high consumption of red meat and saturated animal fat lead to higher rates of disease on average than does eating healthier alternatives.
Take care--and keep enjoying the football games.
@@HealingLifeKwikly That is a false statement. It's not true at all. You are misinformed.
Funny thing about BMI as well is if they were more sedentary that BMI would contain a greater average body fat % as more muscular subjects despite having a higher BMI would have a lower body fat % in general.
The LMHR argument is ridiculous using it for large groups.
Such a specific group of people.
Might as well use George Burns and anyone else that live into their 90's or later while also smoking and drinking as the reason that everyone can smoke and drink and not worry about cancer, liver disease, artery disease, etc.
It is very specific, but it is also just nonsense. My dad is actually underweight. Eats a pretty standard 'reasonably healthy' diet, but has had 2 stents and heart medication has kept him alive. Because: high LDL cholesterol. He was never overweight. He was always in excellent shape. Now in his late 70s, he's slowing down a bit, but can still bike for 90 minutes. I wouldn't call it familiar high cholesterol, because diet clearly makes a difference ( in me and my brothers).
My point: yes, being overweight is an independent risk factor. But some people have high LDL despite not being overweight, and they will get heart problems, unless they do something about it.
@@k.h.6991 , curious if they have visceral fat. A person can be "normal" weight or even underweight, but if they have that pot belly, then they are not metabolically healthy.
I hope that guy with the diarrhoea saw a doctor. It’s seriously dangerous to have prolonged diarrhoea for like that. One can become depleted in electrolytes, which can potentially cause heart issues or even be fatal.
Been vegan now for 5 years now very very ill and been taken to hospital 5 times this year, please help, doctors say I have malnutrition issues, is this diet killing me?
Cool story bro
Obviously.
It’s fascinating that on the clip your showing of Shawn Baker was clearly manipulated to fit your agenda. I hope people actually watched Shawn’s entire clip so you aren’t being mislead by this person, Mic. I’m sure he will delete my comment like he always does. Because Mic is not an open minded individual.
The Shawn Baker edit is not the main event here: The main event here is that this study proves nothing about too-high LDL being safe for anyone, and dozens of better experimental studies prove it isn't.
shawn bakker has already made a reply to your video ;-)
and now Dave Feldman as well.
I understand that people are frustrated about that Shawn Baker edit but if you actually watch my video instead of just listening to Shawn like every is doing, you will realized that his clip was meant to be a quick summation of the main point of the report and his call to spread it, not an extended section of Shawn's nuances. The video is NOT about Shawn, it is about the report and the 20+, actually peer-reviewed studies I used to respond to it. The drama about the editing is a distraction to ignore my days of research.
I have familial Hypercholesteremia, my LDL has been over 300 my entire life even as a vegan that limits all fats. I now take statins, because I have calcified plaques considered advanced heart disease. I only wish I would have started statins sooner as now my LDL is around 70.
Woah hey that's pretty good, yeah?! Good to hear (read?). Stay on the health train my friend!
David Diamond has a presentation here in UA-cam about FH and risk of death, quite interesting
Even the researchers who designed this study say that statins are required for people suffering from FH.
I'm sorry to hear that, the question remains, what role did the LDL play in the development of your heart disease and are the statins actually doing anything about the disease progression or simply lowering LDL, which no on is disputing statins actually do, what's in dispute is if lowering LDL on its own has any actual benefit if nothing else about lifestyle/diet is addressed.
I never believe these anecdotes without proper investigation, anyone can spout this and often do knowing full well they will never be investigated.
Meanwhile, Baker sounds like he's dying when he tries to say how healthy he and his diet are.
You think Baker is unhealthy? ok.
Yes, Sean Baker looks very unwell compared to Dic the Vegan. 🤔🤪🤣🤣
@@action1976 His beet-red complexion and terrible bloodwork suggest he is.
@@damienroberts934 Then why is his bloodwork terrible and why is he always beet-red?
If you can win with evidence, please don't stoop down to making observations like that.
Why wouldn't high LDL be safe for people with plaque and thus unethical? Isn't their whole point that keto doesn't cause that plaque and high LDL is fine?
Yes, they will use this to tell everyone that saturated fat is fine
It is. This is why the oldest ppl to live in age and the ppl with the highest life expectancy consume "Saturated Fat" liberally.
Humans have evolved on saturated fat for literally millions of years just because we decided it's bad in the past hundred or so years doesn't make it so.
Thanks a lot. God bless!
Thanks Mic
I'm glad you brought up the trans-fat issue. I never heard of trans-fat as harmful except from seed oils. I had to research it and yes, animal fat does contain trans-fat; however, not all trans-fat is the same. If you research, animal trans-fat is created by bacteria and is actually healthy. I appreciate you bringing this up as I never would have known this.
You are wrong there. It has nothing to do if an oil is a seed oil or not if there are trans fats. All oils that are refined contain a little amount of trans fats. That can be sunflower oil but also olive oil.
Cold pressed oils do not contain trans fats, including sunflower, canola etc …
Look out for that.
Yes it does, DYOR.
@@adriansrfr Refined olive oil does contain residual trans fat and is highly processed- no seed oil. EVOO is the cold pressed version, less processed, no trans fat.
Refined canola oil is the highly processed version, containing residual trans fat.
Cold pressed canola oil is less processed does not but is more expensive.
The trans fats are created in the refining process through partly hydrogenation. They get removed, but residuals remain.
You‘ll find that in margarines and refined oils of any kind. I avoid those products.
I also avoid anything deep fried. Reheating oil over and over creates trans-fats.
A lot of you are understandably coming at me for having such a short clip of Shawn. To be fair to Shawn in that video he does say that LDL causes atherosclerosis in metabolically unhealthy people. However, the point I am making is a direct response to his sentence, that this study doesn't disprove that LDL causes plaque in so called metabolically healthy people. I would say that high LDL means you are not metabolically healthy and as I mentioned, heterozygous FH people who have *13x the risk of CAD and 3x the risk of death* would have shown the same results over 4.7 years. Either way, Shawn was simply an example of the message being spread, his opinions bear no weight on the validity of the report so you can't use my edits as some twisted of stamp of dismissal for the actual argument.
I should also add that the assumption that high HDL is protective in this context is further called into question by the risk of high HDL oxidizing and high HDL risk studies. A 2022 study that I didn't include found that HDL levels >80 mg/dl (Exact LMHR cutoff) were associated "...with increased risk of all-cause death (Hazard ratio [HR] 1.11, confidence interval [CI] 1.03 to 1.20, p = 0.005) and cardiovascular death (HR 1.24, CI 1.05 to 1.46, p = 0.01)..."
The issue is particularly focused on men with twice the risk of CVD death and most LMHR people are men: "In gender-stratified analyses, such associations were only observed in men (all-cause death HR 1.79, CI 1.59 to 2.02, p
Did they have high LDL? YES.
Did they have atherosclerosis? NO.
LDL hypothesis disproved
@@DanielFernandez-h3l 🤣
🧠 💪 💚
👍👍👍
@@DanielFernandez-h3l
Receipts?
I was looking at an interview by Paul saladino regarding this study.
The interviewee said that most of the times patient with higher cholesterol needs statin and that the study's second phase is pending. Till now first phase just shows that's cholesterol's risk to cause atherosclerosis is modulated by other factors. There are conditions which execerbate cholesterol risk eg insulin insensitivity, genetics. Further research is needed to find more conditions and contexts to quantify how much damage cholesterol is going to do. This study is only for totally metabolic healthy people only not for average Joe. Also second phase is pending.
So saying that cholesterol is not a risk factor on keto diet is total misrepresentation.
I think the point is to find out if higher LDL over time shows plaque in arteries. I have to do cholesterol testing and multiple studies because of my risk. My LDL and cholesterol is a bit like glucose, it varies significantly depending on what’s going on at that time. When I fast for a long time it goes up, when I exercise it goes up depending on my diet. If I’m eating a lot of carbs it goes back down, but then my glucose shoots up on monitor. Same as in mornings waking up, I get dawn effect, and hour later my glucose drops 20 points. What I’m saying is the numbers move around a lot from what I’ve noticed, if you really want solid information you have to go look inside your arteries and organs.
I've been near LMHR or at LMHR for five years from eating a 95% animal-based diet. I'm pain-free. No more gout, and stage 3a kidney disease stabilized, I've returned my CPAP machine, and I'm psoriasis-free. Mic wants this theory to be wrong so that animals lives are spared. It's a good motive. I want to do what's best for my health.
Vegans have no idea how many animals get killed in order to produce their "no animals were killed in the making of this food".
"Mic wants this theory to be wrong so that animals lives are spared. It's a good motive. I want to do what's best for my health." Speaking as a researcher, and ignoring all animal rights issues, Feldman's study is too flawed to prove anything. Period. Doing good research is hard and although Feldman seems like a good guy, he's not a trained researcher and doesn't understand that what he has here is nothing. There's a very sound reason why that one researcher bailed out on this study.
P.S. That's absolutely wonderful about your health progress, but the same things have been achieved on diets that are dominated by whole plant foods and that are very low in fat. The differences is that WFPB diets very low in fat have a record of stopping and even reversing serious heart disease, and diets high in fat do not.
@@greganthonysanchez3416 The point is that FAR FEWER animals get killed. Eating meat, including fish, has been THE #1 most eco-destructive human activity ever in that it has required us to overfish the oceans and raise billions of heads of livestock (which is THE #1 most ecodestructive thing that humans have done to land ecosystems and biodiversity).
Similarly, research clearly shows that switching to a vegan/low animal foods diet is THE #1 most beneficial "shovel-ready" strategy for simultaneously reducing emissions, restoring enormous swaths of wilderness, allowing biodiversity to rebound sharply on land and in the oceans, reduce use of freshwater, and sequester hundreds of billions of tons of CO2 underground and in the foliage of those swaths of re-wilded and re-forested land.
Meanwhile, you prevent ~90 direct deaths of animals per year on a vegan diet, so I've prevented the slaughter of ~1000 livestock animals in the last 11 years on a vegan diet plus lots of wildlife.
Keep going it only gets better my man 🤙 I've resolved a lot of issues from going carnivore! So many bitter vegans, that want this study to be wrong!
@@adamarmstrong9408 It has nothing to do with the study being "wrong:" Speaking as a university researcher, the study has too many weaknesses to prove anything about high LDL being safe for even this small sliver of the population, let alone the general public. Even their own conclusions are muted--it's just that people in the blogosphere, in a case of wishful thinking, have blown up the study to supposedly mean much more than it does.
To my thinking the greatest flaw of the study is equating granular results with decades of study after study showing the link between CVD and LDL's. Granular results require more guessing and that always introduces error.
It has always been a weak correlation, going back to Framingham even.
After seeing @realDaveFeldman's response to your sneaky edit, I realize how you are seriously lacking in integrity. Very sad.
I understand that people are frustrated about that Shawn Baker edit but if you actually watch my video instead of just listening to Shawn like every is doing, you will realized that his clip was meant to be a quick summation of the main point of the report and his call to spread it, not an extended section of Shawn's nuances. The video is NOT about Shawn, it is about the report and the 20+, actually peer-reviewed studies I used to respond to it. The drama about the editing is a distraction to ignore my days of research.
@@MictheVeganliar
When I skim the comments under the boobtube videos about diet and health I always see people telling similar stories. That being I was on the other extreme diet and it was a disaster but now that I'm on the complete opposite extreme diet things are going great for me. Maybe these people are like the people who move from one crazy religion to the next when the best answer is becoming an atheist!
Love you Vegans ❤️, you guys leave more meat for us carnivores 😁
Uh Oh... it seems yet another study does not back up the LDL Myth that vegans keep banging on about. This must be hard for you Mic 😂
A quick question to vegans, because that's something I couldn't figure out: Why do vegans need to buy supplements? Isn't a normal human diet supposed to cover all our nutritional needs? Thank you.
"Why do vegans need to buy supplements? Isn't a normal human diet supposed to cover all our nutritional needs? Thank you." Why do omnivores eat beef that has been injected with B12--or have as many or more micronutrient deficiencies than vegans do. I have no idea what words like "normal" are supposed to mean: A well-managed vegan diet is super healthy for humans and it is the healthiest diet for the planet.
@@HealingLifeKwiklyI've never heard about meat that has vitamins injected, at least not in the EU - would you say this is a common practice, can you please provide evidence?
I had to drink B12 for years, before starting a keto diet, and it was usually in the low range. Now my levels are higher without supplements, after half an year of this diet. Also, meat doesn't make me horribly sleepy, like all B12 forms I've tried.
@@randombitsofreality "Also, meat doesn't make me horribly sleepy, like all B12 forms I've tried." I'm curious, drinking a cup of fortified soymilk makes you tired? A B12 pill dissolved under your tongue once a week makes you tired?!
They've been injecting cattle with B12 for a long time, just google it.
Unfortunately, meat poses other problems.
Take care.
@@randombitsofrealitywhy do omnivores take supplements?
@@canesugar911 Which omnivores are you referring to?
If you are talking about humans, I would say we are carnivores, who can stomach plants in emergencies or to add a small variety to our foods. A proper diet shouldn't need any supplements, as it has all nutrients.
Or are you talking about horses? You can call them omnivores, because they also eat meat. But I would say they are herbivores that occasionally eat meat as a variety for their diets. In which case they also shouldn't need supplements.
It is well established that it is easy to lie with statistics.
I have been 27 years on keto, I measured my coronary calcium score nearly four years ago and was zero, I have just got tested again, waiting for the result . My LDL generally approaches 200 mmol/L, that is my only "bad health metric" according to the current medical establishment. I changed my diet in 1996 because of health reasons (allergies) which improved after eliminating sugar and starches. Six years ago I went a step further and eliminated all plants from my diet, which immediately translated in better digestion and overall well being
The MAJORITY of men have CAC scores of zero into their 40s, despite the fact that we know that almost all of them have progressively worsening heart disease. Don't read too much into your CAC score.
Happy New Year, Mr. Mik! 💫 I wish you well. Your content is entertaining and helpful. 🌞 I looked, but I don't see that you have done a video on the benefits or disadvantages of garlic. Is it better raw or cooked? You've probably covered this, but I just didn't see it. 🕊️
Lol! This is kind of hilarious. Thanks for the analysis Mic!
I got great results on keto. Lost weight, felt great, got lipid panel back and for the first time in my life had values outside the ordinary. I do eat meat, so it wasn't like I was vegan before. Still am not. Vegetarian. Perhaps people can do keto safely. I'm not one of them.
Probably very few have read the report. If you had you would see that the author states that only about 25% of the population are lmhr and that the other 75% do need to worry about their ldl levels.
What is your qualifications?
Imagine being excited that your arterial plaque exactly matched that of standard American dieters… just wow.
Wonderful comment.
I look at this community and it's stories and wonder WHY they do this to themselves.
At 63 I THRIVE on a WFPB diet based around beans, get plenty of protein and fibre with LDL and triglycerides low 70s and glycogen stores charged up ready for exercise.
I went WFPB over 40 years ago and am so glad I did, It was not rocket science.
Mic got called out by the guys that produced the paper for a terrible edit here.
I understand that people are frustrated about that Shawn Baker edit but if you actually watch my video instead of just listening to Shawn like many of you are doing, you will realized that his clip was meant to be a quick summation of the main point of the report and his call to spread it, not an extended section of Shawn's nuances. The video is NOT about Shawn, it is about the report and the 20+, actually peer-reviewed studies I used to respond to it. The drama about the editing is a distraction to ignore my days of research.
Hey you want to try that without editing Bakers video?? Wouldn't be a Mic video if it wasn't BS though hih??
Pasty no sunlight people being influencers is just plain... Weird.
To be fair, there's not a lot of sun to be had in Iowa in December.
Yes, and I popped out an artifical light which makes me look more pale than the video a week before because there was a snow storm. Oh well, people see what they want. They are just copy and parroting Shawn Baker's like good little meat sheep.@@alex_stanley
Why is no one worrying about fatty liver on keto or carnivore? Are people insane?
All I get from these study is that if you are lean, have HDL and TG in healthy ranges, a high LDL is likely not harmful for you.
If you are an obese, smoker, diabetic with high LDL then you are in trouble for sure, but still high LDL is probably the least of your problems.
"All I get from these study is that if you are lean, have HDL and TG in healthy ranges, a high LDL is likely not harmful for you" No, the study proves no such thing: As the video demonstrated, you need decades of data to determine whether or not elevated LDL was followed by more plaque/CVD events. The study was too flawed--and in multiple ways--to prove anything.
@@HealingLifeKwikly hi Karl. I know the study doesn't proves that, which is why I inserted the word "likely" in my comment. Fortunately, this study is planned to run for at least 5 years, so we may have better answers in the near future.
@@Mario-forall Hi Mario. I will still say it doesn't likely prove anything one way or another and in 5 more years, it still won't.
Feldman seems like a nice guy, but it didn't deserve to be funded.
@@HealingLifeKwikly you usually have reasonable points, however stating that some scientific research shouldn't be funded/conducted is plain anti-scientific. May I ask why do you think this topic is not worth researching?
@@Mario-forall "however stating that some scientific research shouldn't be funded/conducted is plain anti-scientific." Perhaps you misunderstand my point so I'll try to make it clearer: As designed and executed, this study can't answer the questions it purports to address--and which were likely the reasons why low-carbers are so excited about the study. There are limited funding dollars, so I will call a study that can't answer the questions people are interested in not worth funding.
I'd be totally supportive of a decades high quality and long study on the health effects of keto diets--including for subgroups of the keto population.
Hi Mic -- I've been going to gym since a year and been consuming plenty of protein. I want you to make a detailed video on how much protein we really need and if we can make good muscles with with vegan diet and what are the differences in vegan diet proteins and animal sources based protein, and what kind of diet is healthier and relatively safer to build muscles, with nuances if someone wants to lose weight or gain weight.
Have you watched 'The Game Changers' yet? Most people get far too much protein. Have you looked up the side effects of too much protein? Our largest and most muscular land animals are vegan after weaning. ✌️
I dunno why you're so bothered Mike, my cholesterol has been high for more than 20 years, I am closing in on 60 and I am playing football with kids half my age and still one of the fittest and fastest on the field. It was high when I was vegan and it didn't change when I came off being a vegan. I'd worry more about your own health, you're looking a little pasty there.
As for LDL, why do you think something the body makes is bad for you? Is saliva bad for you or bone marrow or red blood cells? The body makes all those! You're looking in the wrong place if you think LDL causes heart disease. You know, like blaming firemen for starting fires. That analogy works really well. As for the studies, there are a massive amount of studies that show niether high cholesterol nor lowering cholesterol has any significant outcome on mortality, the reverse in some cases. It only takes one black swan to prove not all swans are black, there is no such thing as a paradox in science, it means the hypothesis is wrong. And there are plenty of black swans out there.
If you want to help people, work on helping them grow all their own food, because let's face it, if we're herbivores it should be possible to easily obtain all the plant food we need in our back garden right? Good luck with that, I mean seriously .... good luck with that!!!
and debunked? Is that a scientific term or a conspiracy theorist youtuber who in 10 minutes manages to find the flaws in years of studies. What's your PhD in again?
One of the best comments on this video.
why take the chance dad, why are you risking getting a heart attack when you just dont have to. i dont get it. meat must taste too good i guess. there no other real explanation isent there. its your life daddyo. lol
@@cypriano8763yep takes 20-40 years to develop the diseases he's working on
A bit of apples to oranges comparison. When you’re talking about 30 to 40 years, you’re talking about clinically manifestat atherosclerosis. It is not the same as looking at a coronary CT angiography where even minuscule amounts of plaque growth can be detected well before symptomatic.
So many carnivores aren’t LMHR, their triglycerides are crazy high OR they’re heavy. So even if the study is correct, which I think it will be, you must meet ALL the criteria of being a LMHR. If you don’t, you shouldn’t ignore that you are NOT a LMHR and therefore eating carnivore may well harm you.
Also Dave Feldman is a very disciplined eater, not many people can control themselves the way he appears to.
I think the point is to stop blaming LDL when it is clear that LDL alone cannot and will not cause heart disease, it may be a contributing factor in the right circumstances but it is not THE cause as it alone means exactly nothing and as such is not predictive of heart disease development and should therefore not be villainized.
@@notyourdadnope, ldl is causal to ASCVD, we know this already. This study could not invalidate that or put a dent in what we know.
@@notyourdad This is such a misleading statement to make, because there is absolutely a correlation between heart disease and LDL. Even if LDL itself might not be what's causing the harm, it is clear that high LDL is correlated with a higher risk of heart disease. If your LDL is high, you are at higher risk than what you would have been if your LDL was lower, so doing things that reduce your LDL will be a positive development for your risk of heart disease. There's so much science backing this up, regardless of whether LDL is causative or not. It doesn't matter whether you "blame" the LDL or not, the fact remains that lowering your LDL also reduces your risk of heart disease.
@@notyourdad the point is that true LMHR can quit blaming LDL, the rest of us need to know it indicates heart problems accruing. I can’t emphasize enough what a narrow set of criteria LMHR is and how many people are fooling themselves about meeting those criteria. The other point is that high LDL means nothing when you’re younger but year after year of it…
@@realmarsastro Except that your assertion is incorrect. That fact that someone's LDL is high indicates that it MIGHT be an issue, meaning it also might not be an issue at all, which means that an elevated LDL level can't actually inform on the risk of any one individual because you don't know if the raised LDL is an actual problem for that particular individual or not - the risk of developing heart disease might be exactly zero despite having elevated LDL depending on the person. Additionally, if you want to talk about correlation, maybe have a look at the biggest meta analysis available that clearly shows that LOWER LDL is correlated with HIGHER all cause mortality - how does this fit into your world view where higher LDL is a problem?
The idea that LMHR people in the Keto community are ‘special’ strikes me as being very narcissistic. We only have to look at the long term trends in low carb, keto & carnivore. They die well before they should.
Thank you for keeping the good work Sharing non bias research studies and educating people around the world that we don’t need to consume a lot of animal products in order to be strong and healthy.
Absolutely. It boggles my mind how mainstream the carnivore diet has become. This wouldn’t be considered healthy by any significant number of people - let alone healthcare providers - 20 years ago. Now, people are taking on serious health risks, thinking it’s healthy to eat nothing but meat, and possibly some dairy and eggs. It’s insane. I’m vegan and am subscribed to a lot of vegan YT channels. I’ve never sought out info on the carnivore diet or any sort of low-carb diet. And yet, YT keeps pushing these videos on me. The algorithm should know that I’m not the audience for this content.
“Non bias” lmao good joke
My LDL and total was steadily going up (119 and 225) and weight loss stalled on whole foods low-carb. After 4 months whole foods vegan my ldl is now at 57 and total is 133. 😊
Shawn Baker's channel already released a video addressing your response. They say you were dishonest because the part of his intro you edited out was an important nuance :(
You can't be serious, Shawn responded to his 15 seconds out of 20 minutes of a video!!! He showed less of my video than I did of his! Too bad my comment under his video disappeared into oblivion.
I understand that people are frustrated about that Shawn Baker edit but if you actually watch my video instead of just listening to Shawn like every is doing, you will realized that his clip was meant to be a quick summation of the main point of the report and his call to spread it, not an extended section of Shawn's nuances. The video is NOT about Shawn, it is about the report and the 20+, actually peer-reviewed studies I used to respond to it. The drama about the editing is a distraction to ignore my days of research.
The biggest problem with carnivores is worshipping butter. I would never take any derived pure saturated fat. Something like 7% fat beef is fine occasionally.
People on the carnivore diet are like flat earthers. They have an impossibly high standard of evidence to prove veganism is healthy. Yet their bar for evidence supporting their horrible diet choice is super low with no critique whatsoever.
I have to disagree. A lot of Flat Earthers are very religious, making them driven by dogma rather than evidence. A person on a carnivore diet is unshackled by the need to be in a "morally correct" position, so that would make them more objective.
@@CriticalThink
On the other hand flat earthers don't have to change much about their lifestyle if they are incorrect. Just adopting a slightly different interpretation of their holy texts is enough.
From carnivore (that also includes moral claims for many by the way) to a Mediterranean style diet is a very big change.
Furthermore I see a lot of strange beliefs in the carnivore community (judging from the outside - videos and prominent UA-camrs) that are not evidence based about what people should do and what society should do.
I'm not convinced that the classifier "religion" to some "should"-statements vs. others makes a difference.
@@tofu-munchingCoalition.ofChaos I don't think change of diet is a really big deal. To me it's just do what works for me. I'm not aware of any moral claim associated with the carnivore diet, could you give an example? I've a lot of experience dealing with flat earthers, and it is extremely difficult for them to "adopt a slightly different interpretation". That's not a good analogy at all. Also can you give an example of what you would term a strange belief that is not evidence based?
@@CriticalThink We have scientific evidence that dietary changes are hard. The adherence rate for example are extremely low (over 95% who wanted to change their diet failed; ...). You having no problems with it is good but a personal anecdote.
I had no problems of changing from growing up Jehovah's witnesses to antitheist once I got interest in science. But that's not evidence that it's easy for everyone.
One example of belief in the carnivore community even despite of evidence against it it that seed oils are harmful.
Society should abandon seed oils is such a claim. Accompanied with a lot of rhetoric.
When talking to flat earthers and carnivores I have exactly the same problems from an epistemological perspective. Just exchange the bad people (seed oils, Ancel Keys, pharma industry, Kellogg's, ... vs. devil, secular society, NASA, ...) but their epistemic basis is exactly the same.
I'm not carnivore, but I have the same standards for proving a diet is healthy, whatever the diet. The standard I have for disproving a hypothesis is lower though, as a single contradictory piece of evidence can be enough.
The tricky thing is cardio vascular disease takes time. I was paleo for 10 years (low-ish carbs and fats about 55%) and all was fine until BP started to get to 140/90 and chest pain started. 54 yo, 170 cm/68 kgs. TC - 220-240. LDL - 120-130. TG - 60-100. Went on pills and WFPB SOS free (fats 30 gr) and after 18 months BP was 105-110/70-75 and no pills. Weight down to 60 ksg (just as I was 18 yo). But TC and LDL dropped just a little - TC 190-200, LDL - 100-115. TG up and down - 130-230. Lack of salt (Cl) causing low stomach acid and all the problems with it like heartburn, chest pain, throat pain, etc. Now I am adding salt and doubling fats (to go to about 60-70 gr), taking out things like bananas and oats, to see if it can reduce TC, LDL, TG. BP does not go up after adding some small amount of salt. It used to go below 100 especially in the mornings.
What did vegans eat during the ice age?
"What did vegans eat during the ice age?" Who cares? How did you watch UA-cam videos during the ice age? What our ancestors ate has zero relevance for what is healthiest for humans to eat now.
I have just watched the comments about funding again. 18:21
Maybe it’s a good idea that the study sponsors should be happy at this stage. If the study is extended to say 10 years, the results could be very interesting. It would be very difficult for them to dispute long term results, given they funded it themselves and cherry picked the participants at the beginning. But, I would put good odds on the follow up study report never being published even if the data study were done and data collected. We could even have pro keto diet videos, following a longer study, arguing that maybe artery plaque isn’t a bad thing, or even lunacy like, “some of the participants cheated and ate a salad and that’s what caused the heart attack.”
I see there are many people attacking this video. But not anywhere do I see valid criticism. Is that what the health community is? Just tribalism? You don't like the video because it doesn't support your beliefs? And here I thought we were all searching for the truth. So in that respect - if you have any issue with the video, please USE EXAMPLES, be specific, cite timestamps, explain why you think Mic is wrong. So far it's like a thousand swings and a thousand misses, but I genuinely am interested in all sides of this debate as I'm sure a lot of us are.
It would be a complete waste of time. Mic is wrong in 100% of all his videos. He is just a clown.
The study has pretty strong data showing no artery plaque evolution in a population with high LDL compared to a similar population with low LDL. The saturated fat haters can’t accept that LDL is not the cause of heart disease, ignoring all data that proves that hypothesis wrong
There will never be a 100% healthy diet. People need to realise that being extreme isn't the answer at all! Extremely vegan or carnivore isn't going to be a healthy choice in the long term. Vegans will always need to take supplements because they can't get their B12's from their diet and so on not to mention all the vegan highly processed food out there which isn't doing any favours to health or the environment at all. The key thing is to eat non processed foods, to cook your own meal and exercise 3-5x a week. That's it! My grandma lived up to 100 years eating meat and veg, cooking her own meals and not much time sat on a sofa watching TV. Not a rocket science! Just eat clean and keep yourself active!
Veganism isn't extreme. It's cutting out maybe 10-20 foods most commonly eaten. Animals are given B12 supplements. Essentially any diet requires supplements. Look at folate being added to foods because meat eaters don't get enough. Vitamin D deficiency is widespread. I could go on. Your grandma is an anecdote and this is irrelevant. You can find chain smokers that lived to 100.
Agree and just because you have to supplement dont make a diet unhealthy. omnivores has to supplement vitamine D. All research shows that a more plant based diet you have the longer you live.
There are healthy diets. However the vegan diet is always unhealthy and deficient, while i get all my nutritients on my omnivore diet.
Fantastic work.
You got demolished by real science
Share your blood results and then maybe we can believe your plant based strategy
He has shared his blood tests in other videos, for example, testosterone above 660.
Thank you Mic! Great job 👍👍👍👍👍
Mick is a clueless 🤡
Good video. Well done
Why did you selectively edit Baker? Very disingenuous.
I understand that people are frustrated about that Shawn Baker edit but if you actually watch my video instead of just listening to Shawn like many of you are doing, you will realized that his clip was meant to be a quick summation of the main point of the report and his call to spread it, not an extended section of Shawn's nuances. The video is NOT about Shawn, it is about the report and the 20+, actually peer-reviewed studies I used to respond to it. The drama about the editing is a distraction to ignore my days of research.
The LMHR study did not exclude people who had a CAC score from their intake CAT scan.
Good to know but I still feel like Spencer calling it the first big goof of the study is valid since it is a popular thing in the keto community to get a CAC score so the chance of these people having a CAC scan in recent years would be way higher than usual. In that sense, this would be an extra exclusion factor unique to LMHR. I could be wrong but I don't have all of the details. Thanks.
@@MictheVegan
The first cardio angiogram the study did not disqualify potential participants based solely on CAC score. I do not know if other artifacts in the angiogram would have.
There were disqualifications criteria. The most notable were;
- you had to have hyperlipidemia at intake.
- you had to have a prior blood test before you started keto diet that showed cholesterol in the normal range.
- you had to pass a genetic test that indicated you did not have FH.
- and there was a cutoff around the LMHR triad but not exactly the numbers online. Emphasis on low triglycerides.
- there was a BMI limit.
- Taking statins or metformin excluded participants.
- participants needed to be in ketosis measured by daily finger prick.
@@jillengland3277 That are pretty strong criteria for exclusion and for example the second you listed that's a bigger confounder than excluding for CAC zero.
How are they trying to justify this exclusion criterion especially with the comparison in mind?
@@tofu-munchingCoalition.ofChaos
The definition of LMHR phenotype is that
- you started with normal cholesterol numbers
- You went on a serious ketogenic diet for health reasons, weight loss, BP, IR, metabolic syndrome, cancer, heart issues, MS. whatever.
- After a relatively short period of time on a ketogenic diet your cholesterol HYPER-RESPONDS putting the person into the hypercholesterolemia diagnosis territory.
That is the basic outline of the LMHR phenotype, and there is the triad of markers that defines it.
@@jillengland3277
That's not the definition I've found and not the definition they used in at least one presentation.
Furthermore if a definition (low LDL before diet) interacts that strongly with the measured outcome, you have to use the same exclusion criterion for your control. That has not been done. I fail to see any statistical adjustment or justification for that.
Oh, bull crap.
LDL rises when in a fasted state. What criticism do you have of that?
Hi mr jaundice happy new year to you.
It is never about LDL ALONE. almost all get this wrong, including mist doctores. It is about the ratio total cholesterol to HDL and trygiceride. Keep ur LDL between 130 and 200 and you are far healthier than all above 200 and under 130. By far. There is a new study which came out just two months ago. Enjoy your steak.
you both are wrong because LDL is not causative in CVD no matter the concentration.
If I'm to start a vegan diet how can U be healthy?
I looked into it and there is no B12 , that's dangerous, what to do
"I looked into it and there is no B12 , that's dangerous, what to do" Take a regular B12 supplement, just as the cattle omnivores eat are routinely injected with B12.
Don't start it lol
I would say an honest vegan is an ex-vegan......
No cherry in my Shirley Temple please.....ahahahahahah
Why did you edit shawn bakers video...? You are a fraud for doing that.
I understand that people are frustrated about that Shawn Baker edit but if you actually watch my video instead of just listening to Shawn like every is doing, you will realized that his clip was meant to be a quick summation of the main point of the report and his call to spread it, not an extended section of Shawn's nuances. The video is NOT about Shawn, it is about the report and the 20+, actually peer-reviewed studies I used to respond to it. The drama about the editing is a distraction to ignore my days of research.
How a vegan can have so much energy to speak so fast for 20min? Anyway nice work.
Your argument makes no sense. You constantly state having high LDL causes plaque. So their LDL is much higher, so if your theory was correct they would have higher levels of plaque than people with lower levels. Obviously your theory has holes in it.
"Your argument makes no sense. You constantly state having high LDL causes plaque. So their LDL is much higher, so if your theory was correct they would have higher levels of plaque than people with lower levels. Obviously your theory has holes in it." You literally didn't watch the video, did you?
Thank you Mic, I appreciate the time you spend researching these topics and creating videos to explain detail to lesser educated individuals like myself.
Thanks mic 😀
Um you cut part of the video out? Why would you manipulate his video. Now I can’t trust you.
I understand that people are frustrated about that Shawn Baker edit but if you actually watch my video instead of just listening to Shawn like many of you are doing, you will realized that his clip was meant to be a quick summation of the main point of the report and his call to spread it, not an extended section of Shawn's nuances. The video is NOT about Shawn, it is about the report and the 20+, actually peer-reviewed studies I used to respond to it. The drama about the editing is a distraction to ignore my days of research.
@@MictheVegan I truly appreciate your very respectful response. I do listen to both side very closely,It’s my health at risk. I have an honest question,are you ok with eating any meat? I ask this to be able to get an honest perspective to see if its eating animals is what truly bothers you. Thank you for the conversation.