I've owned a Line 6 Powercab, and the Fender Tone Master FR 12 blows it away. I've run my Fractal Fm9 and a UA Ruby through it, both sound great, and can be tweaked to perfection for stage monitoring volume! Soooo good!!!!
I've had the TMP and the FR-12 for a week. I'm convinced that the FR-12 optimizes the tones and sounds of the TMP. I've also used my Helix with the FR-12 and it sounds better than when I connect the Helix with my Powercab.
@@j.jester7821. In general, yes. But any modeler that has noise problems gets eviscerated. The debates about the hxstomp loop buffer is a good example. Again, the digital domain should offer low noise or relative low noise.
I believe it's the compressor so it can get really loud for live shows. That's why tube amps hiss cause they have higher compression. A lower wattage tube amp is louder than a higher wattage solid state amp
Tech 21 Power Engine Deuce Deluxe is the best implementation of the FRFR cab concept I have found. Best feature set and tone for the money by far. Also has xlr in and out and hp and lp filters. Works for guitar, bass or anything else. Has a defeatable tweeter which is great depending on whether you want more high end or not.
@@blueleaftuberit works just as great for guitar or bass. I have used it successfully for both. For guitar it’s best to engage the low and high pass filters which makes the frequency response like a guitar speaker can.
@@Allthehotdogs Hopefully, I dig the pedal as a preamp into FX return of a tube amp (can't use cab sims though) but not a fan of it through a PA speaker. Maybe this or a similar speaker cab is the answer.
I played the TMPro last week plugged into the 12 and an HXStomp next to it plugged into the 10. I was most impressed by the new Fender cabs, and how great the HXStomp sounded thru the 10 as well.
Great video Aaron and so glad somebody did this just on the speaker! So I thought it was just me and maybe a bum unit but yeah.. there's a hiss for sure. I’ve been running a Line 6 Pod Go into the Line 6 Powercab (not the Plus) for a couple years and was pretty satisfied with it and for me, the one that came closest to “amp in the room” and “moving air”. I play at home and soft rock, classic rock, alt, etc. I’m 2 weeks into the FR12 and love it! Did the back and forth side by side comparison with the PowerCab and no contest.. the FR12 clear winner! It was such a winner I sold my PowerCab on Reverb in short order. So suddenly I’m noticing the hiss and buyers (and now sellers) remorse has kicked in. I JUST called Fender Cust Support after watching this clip (and reading comments) and the live rep said it’s not a known issue, but it is still early. He's talking to his amp people and will follow back up. My Opinion: The amp sounds great! Amp in the room vibe, my tones have never sounded better, the EQ on the amp is brilliant. As for the hiss in my quiet studio - it’s barely noticeable but it's definitely there but you can’t notice at all when playing, just quiet moments. For any real amp players especially tube amps, it’s prob less noisy than the real things. Hey, maybe they reproduced the real amps so well they nailed the hiss and hum!
That’s for the comment but I do have to disagree. The Powercab 212 was not a good sounding solution to me so comparing the FR12 to that doesn’t say much. I DO think the FR12 sounds great and has an amazing feature set but I hear the hiss while playing and I do not hear hiss from the tube amps or other amps that I have owned over the years. I recently had the Tone Master Twin and it didn’t make that noise and I have a 100w Mesa that doesn’t make that noise. I hope it’s a hardware issue that can be fixed and if so I will make a new review of it.
thanks for the honest review. I agree, that noise floor is unacceptable. Its too bad because the unit seems to have everything else going for it and I almost pulled the trigger on one.
@@aaronshortmusic - I have the same hiss issue with my FR-12. Any luck on the replacement unit? I wrote into Fender support and got the following so-so answer: "Thank you for reaching out to us. The hiss you are describing sounds like it is most likely RF interference, which can affect any powered speaker. Interference is caused by just about anything--electrical wiring in walls, computers, even light bulbs. That is actually why there is a high frequency cut control which allows you to fine-tune your tone and hone in on what the speaker should actually be focusing on--without losing the integrity of the signal sent to the power amp." To their defense I can use the high-cut to dial out the hiss.
Thank you thank you thank you been waiting for a review of this seeing there's 10 of thousands of us that have a modeler already struggling with stage volume
The preamp EQ section of the FR-12 unit is causing the hiss. Fender have 12 op amp stages using TL084 chips and these are an older op amp design and the 12 gain stages compound the noise of these stages. By replacing the 3 quad op amp chips with more modern low noise ICs the hiss vanishes. Fender could easily fix this issue with a revised circuit board featuring low noise op amp ICs. The Gear Forum has a diy article on suitable drop in chip replacements that eliminate the hiss. Lets hope Fender rectify this design flaw quickly and get a revised unit out for sale.
@@aaronshortmusic I currently have a pair of Headrush FRFR 108s that sound good stereo. I would consider switching to the Fenders just for the look and better EQ knobs onboard. Maybe once they come out used and ppl decide they don't like FRFR, etc
Great run through and demo of the FR12 and comparing it to the QSC. I just got both the TMP and FR12. My FR12’s noise with nothing plugged in is comparable to the QSC. I have to get my ear right next to the speaker to hear it. I haven’t noticed noise fro the TMP, but I will try the Aux. suggestion to see if it makes a difference. From what I’m gathering, all power cabs will have a little noise. But, your FR12 has more than normal.
Got mine today...plugged in to a Helix LT. There is a little bit of a hiss but only noticeable when I am really close to it and actively trying to listen for it (playing in an apartment). None of it is noticeable while playing. Perhaps you got a bad unit, faulty cable, electrical interference or something. It does sound really good.
Me too! I think I would buy 2 of them and run them in stereo if they would. I play at very low volumes here in my studio, so hiss is bad!@@aaronshortmusic
Keep hearing rumors that Fender has/has not fixed the hissing issue with these. Does anybody know for sure? This is exactly what I have been after but won't buy one until that issue is sorted out. Hissing amps is why I got into modelers in the first place.
I run my UA Dream and/Ruby thru the front of a Roland JC-22, which is so clean that even the various speaker cabs sound good, altho I cannot vouch for if they are truly mirroring the actual speakers in real life. I could not use the speaker emulations in my Roland Blues Cube Hot British; it sounded too muddy. I do prefer the UAs thru the front rather than the effects return. The new Fender FR cabs sounded exciting but I do not like hiss…. So thanks for the heads up on that. Was wondering how they sound on the quiet” bedroom” side of the volume knob…
Same issue here, I got the FR10 because the FR12 was already sold out at my local guitar shop. Took it home and immediately I was disappointed by the noise that came out of it even without anything plugged in. As always I thought that would be only the problem with the one I picked but couldn’t find any other review or report of people having the same issue. I’d really wanted to like it but I guess Im gonna return it. The search goes on.
Interesting! Thanks Aaron! How would you compare it to Kemper cabinet realism? Does it get to that level of naturality? Or, as I suspect, is it still in the "FRFR speaker too much clarity to be the real deal" level? Thanks for your time!
These are a Godsend. I've used two Katana mkii's for small shows without a Direct to FOH. They did very well, but maybe these will be their successor? The connectivity seems great.
Hey Aaron, I've had good results plugging my QC, HeadRush Prime, FTMP into the "Amp In" on the back of my two Boss Katana MKII 100 watt 2/12's for stereo. It bypasses everything except the wattage and master volume on the amps. It's quiet, and 100 watts through two 2/12's is beyond loud if you want it. Have you tried a Katana MKII 100 1/12 for lighter weight and easier portability?
I’ve decided on acquiring this, since I mainly play an Acoustasonic Tele, through an ME-90 and my Blues Junior can’t sound clean enough (I expected this) when selecting one of the acoustic guitar simulations. BTW, the Blues Junior has a definite hiss.
Very cool. I didn't hear the QSC at all! I'm on the pre-order for the Spark CAB, as I have all 3 of the Spark amps (not really sure why...lol). Looking forward to seeing what that is like, as I do like the Spark amps.
Could be some house electricity issue too. I had a particular amp that hated my house's electricity; it was very hissy. I took this amp to my neighbors house based on this suspicion, and it was quiet. My other amps were fine on my home's electricity.
Hi thanks for the review, I have a TMP and intend to use it as my live acoustic / vocal all in one for jams and pub gigs , my question is would you recommend the fender FRFR cab at all for this purpose or would it not project enough sound ?? If not perhaps something like a EV 30m ? have never heard anyone playing a modeler through one before Open to recommendations from someone with real world experience like yourself Thanks
You could use the Fender for acoustic and vocal but a 30M will have more bass and project the sound better. It really depends on which form factor you prefer. You could also get both systems and mix and match them depending on the gig.
Why not to try modeler (pre and power amp on, IRS off) ---> powered mixer ---> Guitar Speaker Cab ? I want to try it and see what results can I get. It surely will have less versatility because of the colour of the speakers, but I hope it would be more flexible than the modeler directly to the return of an amp.
@@aaronshortmusic yes I didn’t buy one specifically because I know Fender is spread thin and makes corporate based financial decisions. I’m happy with my Helix and it’s set up, so not up for new projects personally. But the cab is perfect. Looks great and sounds sturdy. And eq at hands reach. Definitely nailed the cab
Thanks, it sounded great. I imagine most of the digital solutions sound good these days. They just have too many options for me. I can't stand menu diving. I wish I did because you can probably get better sounds from a modeler on a consistent basis @@aaronshortmusic
Wise words! I have had a Kemper for a year and don't know how to make a patch! I just pick an amp profile and play! Once I added a "tube screamer" to the "amp." It sounded better than any "real" amp I've ever owned. @@aaronshortmusic
I just had mine come in today. It is "Oh my sweet Jesus" loud. I use a helix floor and putting the cab on 2 was blowing me away. I also heard something I haven't heard in a while from an FRFR.....thump. This thing is the closest I've seen to a real amp that I've seen yet. It blows away my powercab as well.
I’m not a fan of the Powercab but I am able to turn the Fender to maximum in my apartment. I guess it depends on how you have the settings. Do you hear the hiss in my video?
I heard about the reports of a hiss but this thing is just about dead quiet. Most audio equipment will have something but I had my ear within a few inches and didn't hear anything. I run my Helix with the master about at 2 o'clock only because that's where I got a good signal to the powercab. I'll be dropping that back a bit. @@aaronshortmusic
@@aaronshortmusic I had an incident a few nights ago at my band rehearsal where I was using my backup rig and I heard that hiss you were talking about. I pulled the input from the amp and it was gone. For me, it's gain. My backup rig doesn't have a noise gate but my Helix does and I use it on every preset. Could that be your issue? Does it hiss without anything plugged in? Just curious.
I bought the tech21 power engine 60 in 2013 I was so happy to use it with Pod X3 live but thé noise floor was so disappointing.. it was the last time I used that kinda amplifiers .. since I bought the helix everything is done directly into an interface .. even my neighborhood is happy lol
Much preferred the QSC sound. The Fender sounded harsh and really metallic in this demo. Would have to hear it in person to get a sense of what is going on.
The QSC is giving you that studio sound. The Fender is definitely giving more of an amp-like tone. I much prefer it in the room but as you can hear it does not record as well and actually these FR guitar cabs are not really designed to be mic’ed. I like the clarity and punch in the room of the Fender cab over the QSC.
@anthonybencomo8577 The recording doesn’t lie and actually some will prefer having a regular PA speaker as it’s easier to match the stage sound to the FOH sound but the Fender does give more of a ‘guitar cab’ sound. I guess it has been voiced that way for guitar players. I like guitar cabs and I like the features. If it wasn’t for the hiss I would use it.
@@aaronshortmusic Why on earth would Fender release an FRFR amp/cab like these that have a 'noticeable hiss'? Obviously comes from the amp itself which in my mind says they were saving a few production dollars in the 1000W class D amp to keep the price down. Next question is why the 1000W? It's great to have the headroom but that to me is overkill. However that figure is probably in line with a few other PA type wedges and such that modelers are using. Many players will use these at home in a more quiet environment and will be sure to notice if it is as has been noted. This is somewhat disappointing and maybe there is some update/upgrade to fix it?
How are you using - are you using a modeller ? I have two atomics and they are really quiet ? And now 10 years old ! Seems very strange I don’t thing a update will change this ! Mine do have a noise but only when planyin very loud
@anthonybencomo8577 I have the Headrush 108 but its not enough when you have a very loud drummer. Yeah, I'll go with this Tonemaster FR12 since weight is a huge factor for me.
I don’t have a Kemper now I have a Neural Quad Cortex. I was going to try it through it but with the noise I think I’m going to return it and wait to see if it gets improved.
someone on Thomann claimed a lack of loudness...Is this cab loud as a 50W tube amp? is it able to stay in a loud power trio situation with a badass drummer? (as a good tube amp can do)
Do you know any modeler that can emulate “amp in the room sound” thru FRFR cabinet, like Line 6 power cab, when same full range speaker can sound like different guitar speakers (creamback, greenback, etc)? Not the sound of a cab recorded with a microphone, as all modelers do…
I am confused between fender fr12 and the laney lfr 112. Have tried the laney lfr 112 and if you have can i get your 2cents about that and which one do you prefer between the two?
After watching several "hiss test" videos posted in the last 4-6 weeks, the hiss issue appears to be gone. I love QSC monitors, but not for "amp in the room". I guess if you put an EQ on every preset it would sound pretty good, but that's a pain in the booty@@aaronshortmusic
Volume on the Fender was at zero with everything unplugged. Volume on the QSC was at max on both channels with everything unplugged and was still quieter.
Maybe this is a stupid question, but can anybody tell what kind of cable to use to connect the Fender Tone Master to a Kemper Stage? Just a regular guitarcable or something else?
@@aaronshortmusicThank you for answering! I just ordered th cab, so I haven’t been able to connect it yet. But I guess I have to use the ‘monitor out’ straight into the FR12, right?
Both Fr-10 & Fr-12 make noise even at level 0 or without anything plugged in them. How can this be a good FRFR … yes I have the FR-12 so I know first hand
Sounds to me like big company arrogance: oh, now that we have a modeller we need a a cab as well, cheap and quick. and lets be honest: the EQ is great, but compared to what the Line6 Powercabs can do its more like a 15 year old tech 21 Powercab.
Actually I don’t like the PowerCabs and I do think it’s smart to offer a speaker for your modeler but the hiss is a let down. I hope they figure it out as it sounds great otherwise!
I run a Boss GT1 into a superb small flat setting mixer then unto a power amp unto a pair of 15'' 2 way P.A. top quality full range cabs....there isn't an amp or any other modeller that can intimidate it for grunt and including creamy/throaty tubes tone emulation...including real actual tube amps either. Why destroy a decent modeller by limiting it to a standard guitar amp rig? it's a waste of time.
I have to say in the room the Fender sounds more immediate like a traditional guitar cab. I’m not surprised that the PA speaker translates better in the video. I do not like the noise though.
@anthonybencomo8577 I don’t know how it can be a poor representation when it was mic’ed exactly the same as the QSC and used the same loop in both examples.
To preface things, this IS a noisy amp. The culprit is not so much the Class D power section (which is in fact very good quality!), but the preamp - the active EQ section, in particular. The preamp is surprisingly old-school, both in its through-hole PCB construction, and design, which is basically a long chain of opamp gain stages. The problem is that the EQ section alone uses 12 opamp stages, all built around TL084 chips. This is a low-cost part which is also technically "low noise", but its noise performance is pretty poor by modern standards. So, when you stack 12 gain stages worth of these in a row, each slightly amplifying the noise from the previous one, it creates very audible hiss at the output. The EQ controls and volume will do little to tame it, and the high cut control can help a bit - but won't do wonders. The fix is to replace these opamps with modern counterparts, a fairly easy fix if you’re handy with a soldering iron, but not so much if you’re not.
I've owned a Line 6 Powercab, and the Fender Tone Master FR 12 blows it away. I've run my Fractal Fm9 and a UA Ruby through it, both sound great, and can be tweaked to perfection for stage monitoring volume! Soooo good!!!!
I've had the TMP and the FR-12 for a week. I'm convinced that the FR-12 optimizes the tones and sounds of the TMP. I've also used my Helix with the FR-12 and it sounds better than when I connect the Helix with my Powercab.
A lot of people are saying it is better than the Powercab but I thought the Powercab was awful the last time I tried it.
I was looking for a video to demonstrate that but reading assures me to buy the fr-12 and try it out
One of the reasons to go completely digital is to get rid of noise. Kind of weird design if there’s a noise problem
I agree 100%
hmmm. but where is the source of the noise? the fr12 power amp? or the input signal?
@@j.jester7821 Watch the video. You will see there is nothing connected.
@@j.jester7821. In general, yes. But any modeler that has noise problems gets eviscerated. The debates about the hxstomp loop buffer is a good example. Again, the digital domain should offer low noise or relative low noise.
I believe it's the compressor so it can get really loud for live shows. That's why tube amps hiss cause they have higher compression. A lower wattage tube amp is louder than a higher wattage solid state amp
Tech 21 Power Engine Deuce Deluxe is the best implementation of the FRFR cab concept I have found. Best feature set and tone for the money by far. Also has xlr in and out and hp and lp filters. Works for guitar, bass or anything else. Has a defeatable tweeter which is great depending on whether you want more high end or not.
I have heard good things about those.
How does that sound with an electric guitar? I guess it's more targeted towards bass
@@blueleaftuberit works just as great for guitar or bass. I have used it successfully for both. For guitar it’s best to engage the low and high pass filters which makes the frequency response like a guitar speaker can.
Awesome I was hoping someone would review this. I was thinking about getting this to go with my UA Dream 65.
@@Allthehotdogs Hopefully, I dig the pedal as a preamp into FX return of a tube amp (can't use cab sims though) but not a fan of it through a PA speaker. Maybe this or a similar speaker cab is the answer.
I played the TMPro last week plugged into the 12 and an HXStomp next to it plugged into the 10. I was most impressed by the new Fender cabs, and how great the HXStomp sounded thru the 10 as well.
Great video Aaron and so glad somebody did this just on the speaker!
So I thought it was just me and maybe a bum unit but yeah.. there's a hiss for sure.
I’ve been running a Line 6 Pod Go into the Line 6 Powercab (not the Plus) for a couple years and was pretty satisfied with it and for me, the one that came closest to “amp in the room” and “moving air”. I play at home and soft rock, classic rock, alt, etc.
I’m 2 weeks into the FR12 and love it! Did the back and forth side by side comparison with the PowerCab and no contest.. the FR12 clear winner! It was such a winner I sold my PowerCab on Reverb in short order.
So suddenly I’m noticing the hiss and buyers (and now sellers) remorse has kicked in.
I JUST called Fender Cust Support after watching this clip (and reading comments) and the live rep said it’s not a known issue, but it is still early. He's talking to his amp people and will follow back up.
My Opinion:
The amp sounds great! Amp in the room vibe, my tones have never sounded better, the EQ on the amp is brilliant. As for the hiss in my quiet studio - it’s barely noticeable but it's definitely there but you can’t notice at all when playing, just quiet moments.
For any real amp players especially tube amps, it’s prob less noisy than the real things. Hey, maybe they reproduced the real amps so well they nailed the hiss and hum!
That’s for the comment but I do have to disagree. The Powercab 212 was not a good sounding solution to me so comparing the FR12 to that doesn’t say much. I DO think the FR12 sounds great and has an amazing feature set but I hear the hiss while playing and I do not hear hiss from the tube amps or other amps that I have owned over the years. I recently had the Tone Master Twin and it didn’t make that noise and I have a 100w Mesa that doesn’t make that noise. I hope it’s a hardware issue that can be fixed and if so I will make a new review of it.
Damn, was excited about this speaker, maybe I'll wait for revision 2.0 and see if they fix this.
@@Neuroanalisis I’m getting a replacement. Stay tuned…
@@aaronshortmusic I look forward to an update on the issue, thanks!
@@Neuroanalisis I’ll make a video as soon as I have the replacement.
thanks for the honest review. I agree, that noise floor is unacceptable. Its too bad because the unit seems to have everything else going for it and I almost pulled the trigger on one.
I have a replacement arriving Monday. If it is better I will update everyone.
@@aaronshortmusic - I have the same hiss issue with my FR-12. Any luck on the replacement unit?
I wrote into Fender support and got the following so-so answer:
"Thank you for reaching out to us.
The hiss you are describing sounds like it is most likely RF interference, which can affect any powered speaker. Interference is caused by just about anything--electrical wiring in walls, computers, even light bulbs.
That is actually why there is a high frequency cut control which allows you to fine-tune your tone and hone in on what the speaker should actually be focusing on--without losing the integrity of the signal sent to the power amp."
To their defense I can use the high-cut to dial out the hiss.
@@brianst33 Yeah it’s the same. It’s not noticeable while playing but I do think there’s more than I am used to in other FR speakers.
Many thanks for the review! Much more useful than all the promotion stuff.
Thank you thank you thank you been waiting for a review of this seeing there's 10 of thousands of us that have a modeler already struggling with stage volume
Yeah it’s a big deal. Maybe more than the TMP.
"Your modeler is only as good as what you play it through" - wow, truer words were never said!
Yep
That's why I use Mission Gemini ll Studio
@@kjetilalexandersaltnes8643 They are too heavy for me.
@@aaronshortmusic
They're great, if you can Carry The Weight...
Yes, it's a load.
I've been waiting for this review. Like a lot of people I'm not interested in the modeler since I already have one.
Yes I was thinking this could be a great choice to use with ANY modeler.
The preamp EQ section of the FR-12 unit is causing the hiss. Fender have 12 op amp stages using TL084 chips and these are an older op amp design and the 12 gain stages compound the noise of these stages. By replacing the 3 quad op amp chips with more modern low noise ICs the hiss vanishes. Fender could easily fix this issue with a revised circuit board featuring low noise op amp ICs.
The Gear Forum has a diy article on suitable drop in chip replacements that eliminate the hiss. Lets hope Fender rectify this design flaw quickly and get a revised unit out for sale.
Thanks for the info. If only they had sent some beta units out before it was released…
This is excellent information to know. Maybe the next generation will be the real winners
@@blueleaftuber With a small tweak this could be the best cab for modelers on the market!
@@aaronshortmusic I currently have a pair of Headrush FRFR 108s that sound good stereo. I would consider switching to the Fenders just for the look and better EQ knobs onboard. Maybe once they come out used and ppl decide they don't like FRFR, etc
I thought maybe the inductor circuit, or changing the filter components.
Great run through and demo of the FR12 and comparing it to the QSC. I just got both the TMP and FR12. My FR12’s noise with nothing plugged in is comparable to the QSC. I have to get my ear right next to the speaker to hear it. I haven’t noticed noise fro the TMP, but I will try the Aux. suggestion to see if it makes a difference. From what I’m gathering, all power cabs will have a little noise. But, your FR12 has more than normal.
Maybe I will ask Fender to exchange it.
Got mine today...plugged in to a Helix LT. There is a little bit of a hiss but only noticeable when I am really close to it and actively trying to listen for it (playing in an apartment). None of it is noticeable while playing. Perhaps you got a bad unit, faulty cable, electrical interference or something. It does sound really good.
How does it sound with the Helix? Better than Headrush FRFRs?
Yes, it does sound better for sure! @@rhodeislandfirearmsownersl9916
Excellent honest review. Straight to the point. I like that! Thanks!
Thank you. I hope they can resolve it.
Me too! I think I would buy 2 of them and run them in stereo if they would. I play at very low volumes here in my studio, so hiss is bad!@@aaronshortmusic
@@GaryAlexanderMusic Same here.
Keep hearing rumors that Fender has/has not fixed the hissing issue with these. Does anybody know for sure? This is exactly what I have been after but won't buy one until that issue is sorted out. Hissing amps is why I got into modelers in the first place.
Once I have a definitive answer I’ll post an updated video.
I run my UA Dream and/Ruby thru the front of a Roland JC-22, which is so clean that even the various speaker cabs sound good, altho I cannot vouch for if they are truly mirroring the actual speakers in real life. I could not use the speaker emulations in my Roland Blues Cube Hot British; it sounded too muddy. I do prefer the UAs thru the front rather than the effects return.
The new Fender FR cabs sounded exciting but I do not like hiss…. So thanks for the heads up on that. Was wondering how they sound on the quiet” bedroom” side of the volume knob…
This is a low key QSC ad lol. Thanks for the review.
Same issue here, I got the FR10 because the FR12 was already sold out at my local guitar shop. Took it home and immediately I was disappointed by the noise that came out of it even without anything plugged in. As always I thought that would be only the problem with the one I picked but couldn’t find any other review or report of people having the same issue. I’d really wanted to like it but I guess Im gonna return it. The search goes on.
I hope this is just a temporary issue that can be resolved in production. I didn’t notice this with the Tone Master Twin.
Purchased the FR12 yesterday to go with my newly acquired FM9. Absolutely no hiss. So it seems Fender fixed this. The cabinet sounds amazing.
Yes the new ones are ‘fixed’. I love it!
over on the fractal forum those guys are already modding the FR 12s EQ stage, lol...... i think thats where the noise is coming from ?
I have another one coming to verify.
This is part 1 I assume? 😬 Looking forward to part 2, the real in depth review! 😊
This is it. I will post a part 2 if it turns out my unit is defective.
@anthonybencomo8577 So they are all defective.
Very cool cab. Is it a coaxial speaker or does it have a woofer and tweet separate?
Woofer and tweeter.
Great video, what is your experience with QSC CP8 used with a modeler?
It works well but I would get the K8.2 if possible.
@aaronshortmusic Thank you, I just got it and still haven't the time to try it properly. At first sight I hear it scooped in the middle, isn't it?
@@gianlucamandelli4224 I don’t think so.
@@aaronshortmusic thank you for the kind feedback.
Interesting! Thanks Aaron! How would you compare it to Kemper cabinet realism? Does it get to that level of naturality? Or, as I suspect, is it still in the "FRFR speaker too much clarity to be the real deal" level? Thanks for your time!
It doesn’t have the Kemper speaker emulations but it does sound very cab-like. If it wasn’t for the hiss I would use it.
These are a Godsend. I've used two Katana mkii's for small shows without a Direct to FOH. They did very well, but maybe these will be their successor? The connectivity seems great.
The Katanas are great. I would prefer the Fender if it had less noise.
Hey Aaron, I've had good results plugging my QC, HeadRush Prime, FTMP into the "Amp In" on the back of my two Boss Katana MKII 100 watt 2/12's for stereo. It bypasses everything except the wattage and master volume on the amps. It's quiet, and 100 watts through two 2/12's is beyond loud if you want it. Have you tried a Katana MKII 100 1/12 for lighter weight and easier portability?
I have but I’m really enjoying my power amp and cab these days.
I use one of the Katanas to power the right output of my Kemper Stage. It works great for the price
Ive thought about doing the same thing with a catalyst I see the 2x12 units under 4 bills nowadays
5:10 thank you. Didn't know that.
They fixed it in the latest firmware update.
thank you for responding. @@aaronshortmusic
I’ve decided on acquiring this, since I mainly play an Acoustasonic Tele, through an ME-90 and my Blues Junior can’t sound clean enough (I expected this) when selecting one of the acoustic guitar simulations. BTW, the Blues Junior has a definite hiss.
This is what I want to know about thank you
Very cool. I didn't hear the QSC at all! I'm on the pre-order for the Spark CAB, as I have all 3 of the Spark amps (not really sure why...lol). Looking forward to seeing what that is like, as I do like the Spark amps.
Let us know. I hope it’s quiet!
@@aaronshortmusic Ha! Expected to ship in December.....so we'll see. I figure I can also use it for my QuadCortex.
Could be some house electricity issue too. I had a particular amp that hated my house's electricity; it was very hissy. I took this amp to my neighbors house based on this suspicion, and it was quiet. My other amps were fine on my home's electricity.
Always possible which is why I compared it to the QSC and that is noticeably quieter.
Hi thanks for the review, I have a TMP and intend to use it as my live acoustic / vocal all in one for jams and pub gigs , my question is would you recommend the fender FRFR cab at all for this purpose or would it not project enough sound ??
If not perhaps something like a EV 30m ?
have never heard anyone playing a modeler through one before
Open to recommendations from someone with real world experience like yourself
Thanks
You could use the Fender for acoustic and vocal but a 30M will have more bass and project the sound better. It really depends on which form factor you prefer. You could also get both systems and mix and match them depending on the gig.
Why not to try modeler (pre and power amp on, IRS off) ---> powered mixer ---> Guitar Speaker Cab ? I want to try it and see what results can I get. It surely will have less versatility because of the colour of the speakers, but I hope it would be more flexible than the modeler directly to the return of an amp.
Great job with the cab for sure
The TMP outrageously priced for what is is though
My opinion is big changes coming to digital modeling in 2024
I think the price is OK if they continue to support it. Time will tell and I agree about 2024…
@@aaronshortmusic yes I didn’t buy one specifically because I know Fender is spread thin and makes corporate based financial decisions. I’m happy with my Helix and it’s set up, so not up for new projects personally.
But the cab is perfect. Looks great and sounds sturdy. And eq at hands reach. Definitely nailed the cab
@@superglassbucks6356 Apart from the hiss I experienced yes. I hope it gets improved with a future revision.
@@aaronshortmusic yes…hiss always seems to be an issue with an initial digital product
Are you playing the Tone Master Pro into the Tone Master FR-12?
Yes. I looped it.
Thanks, it sounded great. I imagine most of the digital solutions sound good these days. They just have too many options for me. I can't stand menu diving. I wish I did because you can probably get better sounds from a modeler on a consistent basis @@aaronshortmusic
@@kellyharrison1081 Yeah. You just have to make a patch and stick to it.
Wise words! I have had a Kemper for a year and don't know how to make a patch! I just pick an amp profile and play! Once I added a "tube screamer" to the "amp." It sounded better than any "real" amp I've ever owned. @@aaronshortmusic
I just had mine come in today. It is "Oh my sweet Jesus" loud. I use a helix floor and putting the cab on 2 was blowing me away. I also heard something I haven't heard in a while from an FRFR.....thump. This thing is the closest I've seen to a real amp that I've seen yet. It blows away my powercab as well.
I’m not a fan of the Powercab but I am able to turn the Fender to maximum in my apartment. I guess it depends on how you have the settings. Do you hear the hiss in my video?
I heard about the reports of a hiss but this thing is just about dead quiet. Most audio equipment will have something but I had my ear within a few inches and didn't hear anything. I run my Helix with the master about at 2 o'clock only because that's where I got a good signal to the powercab. I'll be dropping that back a bit.
@@aaronshortmusic
@@brianlebrun2382 That’s interesting. I can hear the hiss sitting 6ft away and it’s loud.
@@aaronshortmusic I had an incident a few nights ago at my band rehearsal where I was using my backup rig and I heard that hiss you were talking about. I pulled the input from the amp and it was gone. For me, it's gain. My backup rig doesn't have a noise gate but my Helix does and I use it on every preset. Could that be your issue? Does it hiss without anything plugged in?
Just curious.
It happened with nothing connected...@@brianlebrun2382
Was hoping to get one of these for use with my UA amp pedals. But sounds like I should hold off for now.
I’ll follow up…
Great point. The fact is that Fender sucks lately.
I bought the tech21 power engine 60 in 2013 I was so happy to use it with Pod X3 live but thé noise floor was so disappointing.. it was the last time I used that kinda amplifiers .. since I bought the helix everything is done directly into an interface .. even my neighborhood is happy lol
I can’t see a usb connector anywhere on the amp ? How do you update firmware ? Cheers
You don’t need to.
Gemini 2 vs Fender FR-12
Over $2000 and 62lbs for that one. It’s not even in the same ballpark as the Fender.
im confused. he says software update? so the fr12 has software?
No it doesn’t. The software update is for the Tone Master Pro pedal to fix an issue that would add even more noise to the FR12.
Much preferred the QSC sound. The Fender sounded harsh and really metallic in this demo. Would have to hear it in person to get a sense of what is going on.
The QSC is giving you that studio sound. The Fender is definitely giving more of an amp-like tone. I much prefer it in the room but as you can hear it does not record as well and actually these FR guitar cabs are not really designed to be mic’ed. I like the clarity and punch in the room of the Fender cab over the QSC.
@anthonybencomo8577 The recording doesn’t lie and actually some will prefer having a regular PA speaker as it’s easier to match the stage sound to the FOH sound but the Fender does give more of a ‘guitar cab’ sound. I guess it has been voiced that way for guitar players. I like guitar cabs and I like the features. If it wasn’t for the hiss I would use it.
@@aaronshortmusic Why on earth would Fender release an FRFR amp/cab like these that have a 'noticeable hiss'? Obviously comes from the amp itself which in my mind says they were saving a few production dollars in the 1000W class D amp to keep the price down. Next question is why the 1000W? It's great to have the headroom but that to me is overkill. However that figure is probably in line with a few other PA type wedges and such that modelers are using. Many players will use these at home in a more quiet environment and will be sure to notice if it is as has been noted. This is somewhat disappointing and maybe there is some update/upgrade to fix it?
This video was perfect for me as I just got the QSC CP8 and was debating if I should exchange it for an FR10 or 12. I know, “get both.”
I will revisit the FR12 when I hear that the hiss has been fixed.
Most modelers have L & R outputs. Wish this had two inputs summed to mono. I take it you keep your modeler’s cab sim (IRs) turned on?
Yes cab sims on.
Yes the cab sim was on since it’s an FRFR cab.
If the frfr is going to sum it to mono why do you need to
Use both outs? Why not just use the left out which is usually the mono out?
@@gordonparrishguitar413The Quad Cortex doesn’t work that way unfortunately. My stereo presets don’t get summed to mono if I just use the Left Out.
@@tonepilot oh I didn’t realise that! That’s a shame…the left out is usually a mono out. Bit of an oversight
How are you using - are you using a modeller ? I have two atomics and they are really quiet ? And now 10 years old ! Seems very strange I don’t thing a update will change this !
Mine do have a noise but only when planyin very loud
They were unplugged and the guitar samples were a loop playing from the Fender Tone Master Pro.
I was saving up for a Laney LFR112 or even a QSC K12 but I think, this would be it.
@anthonybencomo8577 I have the Headrush 108 but its not enough when you have a very loud drummer. Yeah, I'll go with this Tonemaster FR12 since weight is a huge factor for me.
Could the hiss be caused by high compression? What makes it capable of being so loud
I’m not sure. Some people say it comes from the tweeter.
Did you use a balanced xlr out of the modeler?
No but the hiss was there with nothing connected.
I have a couple Tech 21 Power Engines Deuce Deluxe. I wonder how they stand up against this and other FR FR cabs.
You would have to compare them. Hopefully they are quieter than this was.
Can you demo your Kemper through it and provide a sample.
I don’t have a Kemper now I have a Neural Quad Cortex. I was going to try it through it but with the noise I think I’m going to return it and wait to see if it gets improved.
Will it sound like a good studio monitor ? That's all I need, so I can use all aspects of cab modelling from my Helix ?
Thank you.
It’s an FRFR but a good pair of studio monitors will be stereo and have less noise.
@@aaronshortmusicThank you for your reply.
Can you compare vs Laney FRFR 112?
I returned the Fender.
the hiss is probably because it has a high frequency driver not just a 12 inch speaker. bet if you unplug the hf driver the noise is almost inaudible.
Probably but that doesn’t help right now.
Hi I got a cuestion which amp do you recomend more this one or the princenton is there a great sound difference ? Which are the differences thank you
This has no preamp like the Princeton ToneMaster. You would need an amp modeler as well.
@@aaronshortmusic but in sound IS the same ?
@@cristobalfernandosanchezma5409 No. Different products.
someone on Thomann claimed a lack of loudness...Is this cab loud as a 50W tube amp? is it able to stay in a loud power trio situation with a badass drummer? (as a good tube amp can do)
It’s not crazy loud but I think it will be loud enough to play with a drummer if set correctly.
What settings should the treble mid bass be at if you’re running it through the modeller so it doesn’t colour the sound
Everything at noon, cut at zero.
Do you know any modeler that can emulate “amp in the room sound” thru FRFR cabinet, like Line 6 power cab, when same full range speaker can sound like different guitar speakers (creamback, greenback, etc)? Not the sound of a cab recorded with a microphone, as all modelers do…
Just the Helix and the Kemper when using their Kemper Kab.
I have a powercab+ if my helix is plugged into computer via usb using editor i get some noise
Is there noise when nothing is connected?
@@aaronshortmusic no it’s a good speaker and like to be played loud
I am confused between fender fr12 and the laney lfr 112. Have tried the laney lfr 112 and if you have can i get your 2cents about that and which one do you prefer between the two?
I have not but I LOVE the Fender. I am really blown away by how great it sounds with my electric guitar rig.
Recent comments elsewhere claim the newer units do not have the hiss issue. I can't confirm though. Anyone?
Seems to be a mixed bag. If I experience one without hiss I will post an updated video.
What would be a better option? Red Sound? Atomic?@@aaronshortmusic
@@musiccreation1198 How about a QSC K8.2?
After watching several "hiss test" videos posted in the last 4-6 weeks, the hiss issue appears to be gone. I love QSC monitors, but not for "amp in the room". I guess if you put an EQ on every preset it would sound pretty good, but that's a pain in the booty@@aaronshortmusic
@@musiccreation1198 I don’t think it has but if you get one please let me know.
Perhaps you have the volume on the fr too high
Volume on the Fender was at zero with everything unplugged. Volume on the QSC was at max on both channels with everything unplugged and was still quieter.
@@aaronshortmusic perhaps its a defective unit
Maybe this is a stupid question, but can anybody tell what kind of cable to use to connect the Fender Tone Master to a Kemper Stage? Just a regular guitarcable or something else?
How are you trying to connect it? You would use a regular guitar cable.
@@aaronshortmusicThank you for answering! I just ordered th cab, so I haven’t been able to connect it yet. But I guess I have to use the ‘monitor out’ straight into the FR12, right?
@@pieterdejongh1 Oh you mean the Kemper to the FR12? Yes but make sure the cabinet is enabled.
i don't think there are legs on the Tone Master Princeton.
No they are on the Twin.
The noise of my unit is so low it doesn't matters at all.The Fr 12 is out of stock in all Europe
Sounds like you got a ‘good’ one!
My TMDR is really quiet. That is a lot of noise for a Tonemaster.
Mine was too…
Update: I received my Fender FR 12 today. Quiet as a mouse.
Where did you purchase? Was your previous one noisy?
@@aaronshortmusic Sweetwater. I never had a previous one. Confirmed to me that many from the early shipment were noisy. Fixed.
@@musiccreation1198 Well mine arrives tomorrow so let’s see!
@@aaronshortmusic Get it?
@@musiccreation1198 Yeah check out my video from tonight!
The Fender cab sounded really tinny. I can just use my Yamaha dbr10 instead...
By the way .. guys, anyone of you who ever tested more than one FRFR amp .. any ideas on the most neutral one ?
Supposedly some are more neutral than others but aren’t they all supposed to be neutral?
My fr12 has no hiss issue..and sounds like an amp
The new ones are all corrected
Great video on the FR-12! You must proved hat the QSC is a far superior choice in all aspects.
Thanks!
Not in the room. The FR-12 is more fun to play but I cannot handle the hiss.
It has less hiss than my Yamaha DXR10, more than my QSC. 🤷♂
Both Fr-10 & Fr-12 make noise even at level 0 or without anything plugged in them. How can this be a good FRFR … yes I have the FR-12 so I know first hand
Thanks for sharing. It’s disappointing.
Fender became arogant and sloppy.
Sounds to me like big company arrogance: oh, now that we have a modeller we need a a cab as well, cheap and quick. and lets be honest: the EQ is great, but compared to what the Line6 Powercabs can do its more like a 15 year old tech 21 Powercab.
Actually I don’t like the PowerCabs and I do think it’s smart to offer a speaker for your modeler but the hiss is a let down. I hope they figure it out as it sounds great otherwise!
Actually I‘m going to check one out. I want to see if they can knock my chest like a Twin does…..
@@orangenotviolet There’s nothing like a 212 Twin but let me know if you hear the hiss that I had.
Shoot-out .
I run a Boss GT1 into a superb small flat setting mixer then unto a power amp unto a pair of 15'' 2 way P.A. top quality full range cabs....there isn't an amp or any other modeller that can intimidate it for grunt and including creamy/throaty tubes tone emulation...including real actual tube amps either.
Why destroy a decent modeller by limiting it to a standard guitar amp rig? it's a waste of time.
The QSC sounds much better it’s not even close. The fender sounds like garbage and the noise floor is totally unacceptable.
I have to say in the room the Fender sounds more immediate like a traditional guitar cab. I’m not surprised that the PA speaker translates better in the video. I do not like the noise though.
@anthonybencomo8577 I don’t know how it can be a poor representation when it was mic’ed exactly the same as the QSC and used the same loop in both examples.
To preface things, this IS a noisy amp. The culprit is not so much the Class D power section (which is in fact very good quality!), but the preamp - the active EQ section, in particular. The preamp is surprisingly old-school, both in its through-hole PCB construction, and design, which is basically a long chain of opamp gain stages.
The problem is that the EQ section alone uses 12 opamp stages, all built around TL084 chips. This is a low-cost part which is also technically "low noise", but its noise performance is pretty poor by modern standards. So, when you stack 12 gain stages worth of these in a row, each slightly amplifying the noise from the previous one, it creates very audible hiss at the output. The EQ controls and volume will do little to tame it, and the high cut control can help a bit - but won't do wonders. The fix is to replace these opamps with modern counterparts, a fairly easy fix if you’re handy with a soldering iron, but not so much if you’re not.
I hope that Fender will make these improvements during production.
Geeze that hiss is bad.
Yeah. I tried a second unit as well and it was the same.
Still too heavy for me.
I don’t see how a 12” speaker with a 1000 watt amp could be much less than 27’6 lbs. The 10” version is 25.6 lbs.
I have a DV Mark 2x12 cabinet that is 12 kilos. With the power amp I built in it is 13. And GRguitar builds active 1x12s at 6 kilo. It is possible. 😉
@@liedgitarristSometimes heavier cabs can sound better… The Fender cab really sounds excellent I just don’t like the hiss.
sometimes they do, but my DV mark sounds really fantastic. I changed the speakers to Jensen Neo Tornados for a big warm sound.@@aaronshortmusic
@@liedgitarrist So this is too heavy, but your home built solution is heavier?
Terrible product. A high noise floor? Should be a clean power amp with a very high snr and low noise floor. Junk.
I hope they reengineer it.
Yikes. QSC sounded much better.
I think this is next expensive shit from fender ! I prefer my Two rock Studio Pro 35 watt , mike and some stage monitor and is no noise !!! at all
Yes but that is a single amp that costs $4000. Of course they are different things with different pros and cons.