CJR ELECTRICAL electricians day extractor fan installation.Have you ever walked off a job?
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- Опубліковано 10 кві 2019
- This video is for entertainment purposes only please do not attempt to copy me.
Extractor fan installation and why there won’t be a part 2 on the previous video? - Навчання та стиль
With regards to fusing down extract fans I sent an email to manrose and got a reply.. see below
Hi xxxx, following on from our telephone conversation on the 3rd of April I spoke with you regarding advice I was seeking for the 100mm extractor fans manrose manufactured.
I was advised that when connecting the fans directly from a lighting circuit that are protected by a 6 amp MCB that this was deemed acceptable practice and that the requirement for a 3 amp fuse to be fitted as per installation instructions was only required when fans weren’t installed using this method. Given that you advised the fans have additional protection in the form of a thermal overload cutout I would concur that the above installation method would be fine. I asked if it was possible to have this information in writing in the form of either additional tech info or some other form of written statement to which you advised me to send an email. Could you please reply to my the request as I would like to attach this additional info to my customers electrical installation certificates stating that I have still complied with manufacturers installation requirements.
Hi Stuart,
Unfortunately I do not have any documents/data sheets that obtain the information required, I had to ask my manager and he has stated:
“A local 3 amp fuse is not required if the lighting circuit is 6 amp protected with an RCD/MCB in place.”
I hope this information given is suitable enough.
Many thanks.
* I will be printing this email and attaching a copy to every manrose fan installation certificate in future... I have had the same conversation with two other manufacturers and have emailed the same request. Still waiting for the response.. to be honest I’m surprised to get anything in writing... hope this helps, as it’s been a headache for me on certain installs.
Top job mate. Have done a few extractors plumbed from an 1A FCU just to tick a box.
In NZ we are allowed to extend any final sub circuit, say a 6mm 32A oven circuit, with a reduction in wire size down to 2.5mm, you could even go down to 1mm if you wanted, without installing a splitter box and overload protection at the point of reduction. As long as the equipment connected is unlikely to cause an overload and does not have a rating that exceeds the current carrying capacity of the cable used to extend the circuit. The MCB at the origin of the sub circuit offers the required short circuit protection and as long as volt drop has been calculated there should be no issue with EFLI. Note that this is the case for hardwired equipment only, socket outlets are not allowed to be done in this manner as loading of connected equipment at a socket outlet can not be determined at the time of install.
Unless to can show the manufacturers recommendations are incorrect or dangerous then you must comply to them, there was a recent case where an extract fan caught fire causing extensive damage, the installer was found guilty of neglect for not following the manufacturers guidelines as it stated a 3amp fuse must be fitted... the fact that the 3amp fuse wouldn't have made a difference in stopping the fire was irrelevant as it was demonstrated by the fan manufacturer that the installer simply hadn't followed regulation and taken the manufacturers instructions into account.
If you do omit the 3amp fuse in direct conflict with the installation instructions then I would make sure you definitely do have your arse covered because it can put you in the firing target even if you can show it didn't contribute to the fire nor would it have prevented it.
@@genome616 We obviously get different instructions from you as I have never seen extractor fan instructions say that you must fuse their fans. Manrose is a popular brand here too. Here in NZ circuit protection is for just that protecting circuits not appliances attached to circuits. Nor can you buy fused spur units here and NZ plug tops don't have fuses. The reason for this difference is because you guys still have ring circuits.
@@cunning-stunt I'm am simply reflecting on the BS7671 which clearly states that manufacturers guidelines need to be taken into consideration, to ignore them would mean an excursion of the regulations which requires you to supply the relevant information and risk assessment if needed with the testing paperwork for the install.
There are many brands of fan that do specify a 3amp fuse and many that do not but this could be more to do with integral fusing in the fan which is often a one shot thermal fuse on the motor.
Walking away from problem customers is an essential skill. I've done it, leaving my work untouched and un-charged for someone else to finish - IF they can get anyone! When I get a call with "just a few bits to finish" I price myself out of the game. Decent trades will put up with a lot so if someone walked there was a good reason. Well done.
Never mind Checkatrade , there should be a CheckaClient service
Lol that's a good one 🤣
If I had the skill, I have always wanted to do that
there was a group on fb once upon a time not sure if its still going
@@dsbelectricaldavidbetterid8448 hope it still is but also wish for a website so that name that done do Facebook can get on there.
@@bikerchrisukk I believe its call cowboy customers and it's still there
I can verify the cleaner has been sacked! :-) Well done Chris usual high quality humour, excellent video and second to none workmanship and that's why we follow you!
Yeah, Chris is the Man. And you sound like a good client.
Always impressed with how much pride you take on your work always looks like a good job just a pity everyone isn't the same
I really don't understand why so many people would watch your videos and not do the simple courtesy of clicking the thumbs up to show appreciation of the time you've put into this content!!!!
Great videos, always entertaining and informative..... keep up the good work!
U did the right thing there Chris mate. Had to do it myself only once or twice over 20 years really. I won't even remember it this time next year so don't sweat it mate. Keep up the good sparky work.
Your such a nice guy I’m watchimg this because in a few weeks I’m workikg with my dad whose an electrician he had the same problem as you and reacted very differently to you. Fair play
Just Subscribed as I have watch 5/6 of your videos and all have been consistently informative and “real”. Keep up the good news.
@CJR ELECTRICAL
you did the right thing an your so right family always comes first,
they should of done more than being understanding they should of ( not knowing the circumstances of why you took time off, an not needing to ) but they should of said take as long as you need ( an if the job was needed to be finished asap then they could of always asked if you could recommend another sparky to finish the job ) but still offer to cover your expenses, hoping all is well with your family an yourself cheers....
I am a electrical contractor in the states and I have pulled off a couple times for the same reasons and I have to say I was more than happy to do it.
I have been watching this channel for a while now, really decent bloke not even charging the customer after the abuse you received,if they were decent people they would pay you for the work you done
Awesome video, nice tidy job as per usual. :) Shame about the client but family always comes first, regardless. Love the subtle nods to one another. Spread the word, share the love. :)
I think it's fair to charge for material, also at least something for the work you've done - if they pay or not is up to the client; but I think you should submit some type of bill! But heads up to you for being strong enough to walk away.
"with this method I've got no clearing up to do"
I lol so much the cat shot off the sofa 🤣🤣🤣
Kudos, to you for walking away when the customer is being unreasonable. I am currently working on a job to clear up someones mess of installing driveway lights. It's a huge challenge and to be honest if the customer was not so reasonable, I would have priced myself out of the job. That would have been a mistake as this job, even though as yet unfinished, has led to considerably more work inside the house. The driveway has been left until last as I have explained every problem to the customer including a video demonstration of where the water is pooling.
Hey mate, really enjoy your vids! As a sparky from aust who lived in London for years I wish I saw your vids earlier. Keep it up 👍
Sorry to hear of your altercation with your client. Some can be obnoxious, can't they? But you absolutely handled it the right way. Family DOES come first! Perhaps they'll realise how unreasonable they've been and pay up. Either way, you've done the better thing.
Hope things are going better for you on the personal front. 👍🏻
It goes both ways. As a client, i contracted gastroenteritis and so did my kids so called the sparky the night before to cancel a 5 day job. He called me every name under the sun and tried to bill me for wasting his time saying he lost a week of work. But family comes first of course. As long as you would be so understanding if a client did the same to you its all good (karma)
Always enjoy your Vids and you always do a neat job
Those are older models of Square D QO breakers; those are the best breakers (new or old) you can get in Canada and the States. DIN rail stuff isn't all that common (basically never see it) in North American domestic distribution boards.. but QO breakers are available everywhere, though sadly often passed over for bargain-bin safety. I like the QO stuff, but the board in that flat is maxed out and prime for a refit. Even the old ones in North America had more space than that one. Very neat and tidy fan install, thanks for sharing it!
Great video Chris! Some people have no compassion.Only think of themselves.Good luck with the long road ahead.👍
I had a builder who I kept giving time off the job to deal with family issues, turns out he was working another job instead. That kind of bad apple behaviour hurts everyone because it gives clients trust issues, assuming they weren't just horrible people to begin with.
GREAT JOB, Well thought through, a credit to the industry
Mr Spence Eng
Tidy job! Those clips are a good idea. I'm gonna get me some of those!
That was a neat wee job.. solid ceilings are a bugger
I like a solid ceiling/wall way better than the ones desintegrating as soon as you poke them ;)
I got bare respect for u bro u genuine humble sparks all the best for the future
That’s YT2 install was a decent job Chris, sometimes tricky to make it look half decent but I’d be happy with that!
I have already been down that route & spoke to the manufactures direct, even manrose told me no, a 3a fuse is definitely required. I specifically remember as I was installing a mixed flow extractor at the time. I telephone all manufacturers only 2 were ok with lighting circuits Greenwood’s & envirovent.
Hiya, dirty job sites; I've walked off a job where I was working next to the bed & there were used condoms & Tampax under the bed, nearly put my hand on them!!! I've not been on the tools in 30 years went over to touring, Bob Dylan. Paul Weller, Englebert (WHO?) Ask your Nan! Then on to film & TV, then on to walking only with crutches! Love the 30mA Fuse spur, neat. But metal clips around cable? Never in our day, nice change, much safer! Love your videos, catching up with what has changed & what hasn't, crap customers, hmm somethings never change, but letting them off only encourages them to always pull it!!! Seen it a few times they even boast about it!!!
Take care & stay safe... Steve...
Good on you to tell the client how its going to be! Family 1st.
Great idea using earth rod as a pilot Chris, I would have been scratching my head... love the nod to Mr Nagy on the cistern 😂
I have never cored inside, I always come from outside in, which is pain coring at height. I'm too worried about the damage from brick dust. But after watching, I may give it a bash & it only requires one person. 3A fuses for fans can be a pain in the arse, just for a swap over. Greenwoods & envirovent don't require a 3A fuse when supplied from a 5A or 6A lighting circuit.
Love the videos
For my dust collection equipment I use a cardboard box (a lot less give) .when drilling though walls with core drill try resting handle against ceiling in case it jams.
Same here. Shit does go everywhere still ... Once i've seen a flat cardboard box with a bag attached and a sort of "drill through me flap" in the middle with adhesive on the back of the box on a job "back in the day". Worked alright. Still some red dust made it out...
First! I'm not even a sparky but I can't help but check out all your newest uploads 😄 Keep up the good work bud 👍
Such a shame the customer was so disagreeable, you worked hard on that job, hopefully they'll have a Conscience and Pay you for the work you done!
Nice neat job 👍
Society’s changing, people are very selfish these days, you did the right thing.
As others have said we need to trust our instincts, don’t always make it about the money .
I’m sure you kept the client informed and explained, but some people are impossible to please.
Also sounds like your ultra busy like lots of us electricians at the mo, but sometimes we can’t be afraid to tell it as it is and walk away sometimes it’s just a clash of personalities.
The art is knowing from the offset that they might be difficult, I’m sure if you look back the signs where already there !
Good luck buddy !
Ive been in biz since 1983 and I think you handled that situation with the awkward client exactly right..I look at it this way, every dog has his day, and one day you might get the oportunity to gain what you lost from them ..if not you can be happy in the knowledge you havnt given them anything they can trash your reputation with, and thats worth more than the money you lost.
Different regulatory domain here - but yeah. I've not only walked off jobs that are plainly dangerous, I've contacted the regulator and supply company to inspect. Inspectors can enter property to inspect and if you prevent them access, you'll have the mains power disconnected. Also - I never work with/for family..
That's a difficult one.........
Some people will go in with a leg missing and a loved one in the Hospital, others won't just because little Johnny has a sniffle.
Anyone worth working for will understand, if it's genuine and they are *kept informed in a timely fashion* .
Totally agree some people have no empathy with anything selfish bast
ope your family are safe and sound and looking forward to getting baby home
Thought I would try to offer an unbiased view here as many people are bashing the client. If she got rude/abusive that is wrong. However, he never said she was, just that she wasn't understanding of his position.
1. We all know that some trades people (not CJR obviously, and I hope all is now well with the family) mess about, claiming family problems because they are working multiple jobs and eventually don't finish etc. I would think we have all seen the type on Rouge Traders. So often customers are wary, and even if issues are genuine, some are "open ended" and the "I need a few days to look after my family." can turn into weeks......or more.
2. As a customer, when I agree to pay a firm for a job to be done, I expect it to be done in the time agreed and for the price agreed (barring hidden issues). If the firm is unable to keep to contract I have every right to complain or end the contract.
3. When I hire people I know are one man bands, rather than large firms who can move crews around, I will ALWAYS be compassionate and try to give that leeway, unless there is a serious time issue (like no heating in winter with an infant etc).
4. If I have to end a contract I will still pay for work done to date. I may want a bit off for inconvenience/time to go back through getting quotes etc, but if a man works a day he deserves his pay. I think CJR should submit a sensible invoice based on this, I would pay it.
5. Having run a business myself (very small) I have been in almost every connotation of this. Without details it is not fair to simply blame the client.
To a worker family comes first, to a business the job comes first. When you work as a single worker this creates a conflict that forces a choice. I am glad you chose family, but the client has not hired "you" but a business to do the job. It is a shame she was not more forgiving, but I don't think she should be vilified for it.
Rude and abusive yes you are correct.
Well stated. Both parties should look after their interests, and sometimes the customer-business relationship just doesn't work out. Can't go around expecting everyone you ever meet to like you. That's just life.
I run an IT support business and only walked off a job twice. One was a woman wanting to me to connect her printer to the router for £15 (this was in the days of WEP and it was a lot harder than it is now, you could spend ages trying get it to work). The other an old man accusing me of lying when I told him one of his hard drives had failed in a RAID 0 setup.
Keep going Chris, you're a top bloke. 👍
Love the subtle Nagy reference 👍
I think you mean Luke. aka....my trusted electrician......😜
@@yensabi Nope... I know what I meant 7:44
Actually he mentioned them both to be fair , Nagy in the dust and Luke verbally when hanging the black dust bag..........👍
Great. Vids mate keep up the good work 👍
The best thing to do is be as professional as possible, you've cleared site and explained your situation. Be polite. You're only as good as your last job and you don't need the bad publicity. Maybe try and give a word of warning to the next sparks working on the job.
I’ve walked off jobs too mate. As you say family and peace of mind come first, take the higher ground.
Sad to hear what happened to you but unfortunately the world we are living nowadays there is a lot of people whom does not care for anyone apart from themselves. Your attitude was spot on and I am sure what goes around comes around mate.
You can't charge for it as you haven't delivered what was asked for. That's the shitter about consumer law.
@@barrybritcher ok I did not know because I am not a trader and thanks for this information.
@@regferraris obv you can try to invoice it but that's how it would be looked at in a dispute
Wow, stressful. Hope things get better for you soon.
You are a true gentleman and the customer you mentioned doesn't deserve you anyway. Well done for not doing the Mr Angry and taking the hit! I applaud you sir!
That's where I keep my bicarbonate of soda
Works wonders for trapping odours!
You need to get a dimond core with dust extraction screwfix sells them you can attach them to any type of hover
I had a customer who deducted my bill for knocking holes in her ceiling, after she said I could because it was coming down anyway, The first job I did was to get the dirty work out the way and knock holes in the ceiling to drill holes for the lighting cable install, she sent a message to my phone whilst i was doing that, saying the plasterer was going to skim over it now lol.. (a mouldy half collapsed ceiling from bath water damage above kitchen) anyway, the moral of the story, get things in writing before commencing work. I did a few jobs for her too, then we fell out after that farce. She wanted me to subsidise her new kitchen as the plasterer had to make good all my holes lol.. I hate customers, theyr'e NOT ALWAYS RIGHT ;-)
Exactly.
*‘The customer is **_usually_** right!’*
I've found that rental property's would benefit with a constant running fan. The new revive fan for vent axia is 2 pound a year to run and has a humidity sensor rather than stat. I've fitted two so far really good and only need a supply no switch line
Doesn't get the stink out though does it.
Trades together if the customer is unreasonable walk away and bill them. Dont leave work done unpaid. You earned it.
Bill true. But bill relentlessly. Also an essential skill ;)
You are a Good human being..... Some people have no Empathy. So sad to hear.🙏
sorry to hear you've had problems, and your right, family does come first, BUT... you have done some of the work and you should charge for it. just my opinion, i've always said, .. 'life would be ok if people were not in it' selfish customers always a tricky one.
Nice job mate. Really good insight
unlucky dude, we all have to walk away sometimes, its never a nice feeling. Dont let it get ya down
yes mr cjr i have to admit having walked off a few jobs in the last 18years luckly only a few some people can get the total wrong idea what we do, the last job the client spec a network install, full plans full written email with direct instructions installed and it didnt work proved all cables in front of him and then things went bad as i think i showed him up a bit
I enjoy watching these videos and putting the terms into Google so I can find their American equivalents (if they exist since we don't use ring systems).
I'm sure in the UK some people would know the Australian construction company Multiplex? Formally owned/run by the late John Roberts? I walked off a job in his house once because his right hand man was being unresonable.
You walked on the small flat rework with the builders elec work? Dammit i wanted to see that finished.
Love notes in the dust to Tomas Nagy😉
One guy I know is a very difficult client. He always asks for the impossible to be done.
I.e he asked me to move a light switch for him. He didn't want any horrible trunking, neither did he want the walls chased out.
He always ends up fighting with the tradesman.
Lol. Had one of those. Suggested a wireless device but he wasnt prepared to pay the cost. I asked him 'well would you like me to buy it for you'? 'Oh would you that's very kind'. 🤯
The mind boggles I was being sarcastic lol .
Left and never returned......un be fackin lievable 👐
100% behind you mate. Played it like a gentleman.
Great job again like always
OH HOLY SHIT!
Square-D QO...
Hard to get ahold of? Maybe over there. Those things are *incredibly* popular in the US. (I may be overestimating their popularity, as they're the primary brand I work with)
In Europe they're quite rare and I'm fairly sure you can't use US components here because they were manufactured and tested to different standards (trip curve etc.). The UK has more Sq-D and FPE equipment than the continent but still not a whole lot. FPE had a plant in Germany in the early 60s where they produced StabLOK MCBs and other stuff but all to VDE regs. I haven't found much on them but it seems like that plant only lasted for three or four years. I do have three German 15-amp FPE MCBs (not StabLOKs although they do have the logo on them, they're of the lug-lug type, i.e. they've got screws on both the line and load sides instead of slotting into a bus bar) and I'd really like to test one of them if it trips (of course outside and probably using 12 V AC from a halogen transformer).
Very nice neat job well done Chris
Good on you Chris
People can be selfish
You did the right thing not removing as can cause legal issues
Not invoicing shows your commitment to good practice and you will find this will be paid forward
As to you dust method I've found fixing two pieces of 2inch gaffer tape folded along length on one side on the wall and
The other sticky side in the air in a V into th bag helps a lot
Great video as always
Bill
Hi Chris I would not be blame you It has happened to me 3 times
Another great video mate. Where do you get your work do you advertise on anything like check a trader or rated people ?
Yeh I’ve walked off a job when tenants were getting gobby n started threatening me , whilst rewiring their flat . No jobs worth that .
Nice job mate
Yes. A professional cares about their skills. A professional cares about their clients. A professional must also care about their reputation. They will never be able to apply the first two if the third gets trashed. There are clients who absolutely have no understanding of...well, anything. They also demand everything. And they have no ability to evaluate the success or quality of work. They are the nightmares. They are the reason I have 5 extra minutes of conversation about general household issues...to gauge the clients understanding of their own home and its demands. It has saved me from the insanity I experienced when I started out.
Great video as always, been talking to the bosses about how to fuse down the fans so video a big help thanks
What brand core cutters did you use? I'm interested to know. Thanks.
As a client I always try to be fair. Hired a sparky for a full flat rewire. Near the end of the job he gave me a sob storey and asked for advance of last payment. Paid and never saw him again! 1 year later I noticed the earth for the whole flat was just stuck poked into a hole in the wall (attached to nothing). Whole year without an earth, but he’d sent a completion certificate with test results which must have been BS. Called him up a threatened to tell NICEIC, turned up next day with a ‘mate’ from the DNO to fit TNS. Had to fork out for a full EICR from another spark for my piece of mind.
Nice work. Trunking is a punish but it has to be done sometimes.
Good job 👍
Great Video but wheres the date of next inspection label?
Well I for one would not be leaving nothing in a job for clients like that . It would be cut and stripped out . Simple as that .
Anyway good video hope all is weI’ll 👍👍👍
You're well rid of that customer, shame that you ended up so out of pocket. Very nice job. Cutting a six inch hole with no damage to the tiles - excellent.
Never throw your hard earned money away unless it’s your only option. It’s not about relationships it’s about making money for your family.
Wait until this happens to you. I felt the same as you until I had a similar incident; lost £120 three years ago because I got yelled at so politely apologised for not providing the level of service expected and put everything back in my bag and left without billing. Sometimes you have to otherwise you have no self respect.
You are a decent spark. How long are you at it and when did you know/confident enough to go out on your own?
Started my apprenticeship at 15 I’m now 33. 18 years in the trade.
I'm 64 a spark and OMG the job's that I have seen and walked off from some humans don't understand the meaning of cleanliness
Not yet im sure i will do one day!
The human element and understanding is completely gone in the world, good call on the bad customer and you were probably kinder in the regard than I would have been
I also see the customer's side. The customer is paying him to perform a service. If the tradesman isn't performing the service in the manner the customer wants, then the customer should find someone else. And the tradesman should still invoice for time and materials used (especially those abandoned!).
Neat job that 👍
i would still bill them for what you have done and the materials you have paid for, the media are quick to go for rogue traders but never rogue customers strange that.
Because everyone (almost) has been a customer, but few a trader.
Also a rouge trader will screw many customers over, but a customer will only get one or two traders before the word gets around.
@@kevinshort3943 there's plenty of customers who specialise in ripping tradesmen off, thinking they will get away with it, personally I always take them to court to teach them a lesson, and they either never turn up to court or they never respond to the court papers and I win by default.
@@acelectricalsecurity
"personally I always take them to court to teach them a lesson"
As you should. like i told my friend: take them to court, get a CCJ against them, which makes sure they won't be able to get a loan, phone contract, mortgage etc... . Suitable pay back?
Not sure what any of this has to do with the original point?
I didn't know Square D made it across the pond. The QO product line over here is loved but they also have a "Homeline" model which isn't as good. How rare are they by you?
fanplant Square D has been used in the UK for decades
You know i love watching your video sir thank you.. best job
Invoice that client for the materials at least mate - if they pay up your only the labour down They can hardly complain about that they would have to buy the materials even if they done the job themselves - Good luck and good on ya matey
I walked ON to a job where the previous sparks had been walked off whilst doing first fix. A new build. Client had supplied all the requested materials on their account at the builders merchant, so the previous sparks was not out on that, just his labour. The client had showed up unexpectedly on site and found said sparky asleep on the floor, mostly empty bottle of vodka in hand. Client then decided to check the waste in the rubbish skip, and found many (in excess of a dozen) more empty vodka bottles. He never got paid. I wonder why? I had to check and fix the many mistakes he had made, but in the end the client probably saved at least a week's worth of wages. I did try and get in touch with the previous sparks, as he lived only 3 miles from me, but after many unanswered phone calls, I went round. His missus answered at the door and said she had chucked him out, never to be seen again.
Nice one as always! Why are people like that! Hope they get a Harry hacker who takes a month!
Everyones done a Craig david and walked away at some point. Theres loads of cowboy customers out there
Nice job 👍🏼
Great video - nice job, If the client is renting it out didn’t they want the board changing only 4 ways wouldn’t have cost too much and then the flat would have been tested and everything RCD protected Also when you’re core drilling did you wear ear defenders? I never used to and after 24 years in the game my ears are really bad now - just a thought mate 👍
Yes I had some dewalt push in one in.
CJR ELECTRICAL 👍
nice neat job chap