He Pulled it Off?! - Spinning Attack & Dark Souls Roll
Вставка
- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- As skeptical as I generally am of fanciful moves like spinning / jumping / twirling in sword fights... you should always try to be open to consider evidence that contradicts your opinions. Here is an example that I didn't expect, from a Chinese armed martial arts event in 2018 called 勇士的榮耀 (apparently translates to "Glory of Warriors").
• 【CMA】中國傳統奇門兵器 鳳頭鉻 vs 雙...
One of the fighters used hook swords (AKA twin hooks) to perform some interesting maneuvers, including a successful spin and even Dark Souls style rolling. In this video I comment on a few scenes from the fight and and discuss why it worked, and how it might have gone wrong in real historical combat.
Also talking a bit about the role of skill and athleticism in HEMA and other forms of sword sparring.
For more info about Chinese swordsmanship check out my friend Swordsage's channel:
/ swordsage
Where to get historical martial arts gear and practice swords:
www.woodensword...
Kult of Athena, my favorite online store for reproductions of historical arms and armor, fantasy swords, etc:
www.kultofathe...
** Support the channel **
Help fund future videos, get bonus content and other rewards:
/ skallagrim
www.subscribes...
/ @skallagrim
Books about history and/or martial arts, swords, knives, video/audio equipment, and other stuff I recommend (as an Amazon Affiliate I earn commission through these links):
US - www.amazon.com...
Canada - amzn.to/2HeOCMA
** Social media & merch **
How to contact me (can't always reply, since I get too many messages):
/ skallagrimnilsson
See a list of my video uploads:
/ _skallagrim_
/ skallagrimyt
Channel-related shirts and other merch:
skallagrim.spre...
teespring.com/...
My side channel (for rambles, vlogs, opinions, gaming, etc):
/ @skallhalla
** Music **
Intro song:
"Illuminate" by Vindsvept
vindsvept.band...
Outro:
"Highland Storm" by The Slanted Room Records
theslantedroom...
#swordsman #chinese #martialarts
"If you don't know what you're doing, neither does the enemy"
Problem is the enemy knows what they are doing
That’s my strategy both in chess and Dagorhir
“Flail wildly and uncontrollably, if you’re confused so too will your opponent!” Is my horrifically unsuccessful strategy. It’s never once worked, but I’m keeping at it.
@@SentinalSlice does it ever work in chess?
Who said that, Sun Woo?
This man is duel welding, rolling, spinning, and everything I've been told what NOT to do, and he's doing it pretty well-
Wielding*
Yeah ik it's pretty cool :D
@@xomvoid_akaluchiru_987 Wielding** 😂
@@AP-te6mk lol ikr, the guys failed the spelling and the correction
There is no _w r o n g_ way to play, but definitely don't dual-wield two _heavy weapons_ . Weapons from the Estoc down to the Mail-Breaker have a parrying move when in the left hand, giving a weight advantage over the heavier shields. (I also dont recomend shields, as they are cheesy and seem to have a nack in destroying controller buttons)
Rolling is a great strategy to avoid larger enemies with big swinging attacks. However, wearing pretty much any medium weight armor with make your rolls progressively slower. I recommend Havels Ring and the ALL HOLY Ring of Favor and Protection to increase your equip load as much as possible to wear heavier armor items. While Armor doesn't have as much of an impact as your weapons, it is always nice to have that little bit more damage resistance going into a large battle.
I have no idea what you mean by spinning though
MMA has been filled with extremely counterintuitive and creative attacks. I’m not surprised HEMA is doing the same
I can tell he's under 25% equip load
That's, thank you for the reference
Imagine his opponent just pulls out some sorceryXD
Imagine he got below 15% he coulda done a cartwheel
@@MakshotMP4 what game is it referencing
@@matt25675 Dark souls, dark souls 1 specifically
The style is big on fear factor/unpreparedness, the blue swordsman has very clearly never fought a dual-wielding, rolling, spinning hook sword wielder which puts him at a disadvantage.
can anyone here say we really have though?
@@thecookiemeister5374 the blue swordsman can, after this
@@phoenixwithahalfofdragon936 true enough!
This is literally how General Grievous was meant to take down combat-trained space wizards, I love it
@@palecaptainwolfkayls8499 it's hilarious when a show fighter/actor/exhibition guy accidentally runs into the real thing. All of that swinging and flash can intimidate someone, it shows they have some technical skill, that doesn't mean they can fight.
Ganking is the most historically accurate move in dark souls
This needs to be pinned.
historical paintings of four guys walking with arms wide open towards one guy
HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
@@areallybigdwarf4560 historical painting of "A connection error occured."
I wanna see a dude do some work with a murakumo
"There is no risk too great when it comes to just absolutely styling on your enemy." - Sun Tzu
It should say 'probably' at the end very funny though
Facts
I dab on the corpses of my enemies - Genghis khan
true story
Devil May Cry moment
This is a good example of "to pull off an unconventional move you need to be able to present a constant, real conventional threat".
That's probably a good way of putting it yes. You have to be good already to be able to perform these kind of "special moves" and expect them to work as intended.
@@DIREWOLFx75 - Yeah these fighters (likely the whole league or association) are definitely at a high skill level. At least from my perspective as someone with no experience whatsoever.
20 percent of your moves the basics should be 80 percent of your hits or wins like basic punches in boxing. Once you have the basics, to beat someone that your top basic moves are not working on then using the unexpected and unconventional moves can be what makes the win or a difference.
I like that. True in any fight
This also becomes more effective if you can catch them by surprise which means you can't do it alot or they will expect you to try to bullshit them in some way.
Roll dodging? ✓
Switching hookblades into twinblades like a bloodborne trick weapon? ✓
Spinning all over the place? ✓
Jump attacks? ✓
My man is playing dark souls irl and im all for it, his roll probably even has Iframes.
As a 35 year old martial artist, who started my martial arts journey from age of 7 - I have done them all - literally (at least a little bit of everything) Bujinkan, Karate (tsu shing gen and daido juku) and MMA (since 2005~ to present) were the ones I trained the longest.
From the experience I have accumulated is that spinning attacks DEFINITELY works. Problem is when you throw a naked spin attack - meaning you just throw the spinning attack without setting it up.
For example, if I am in a fight against another professional (or amateur for that matter) - I would never just throw a spinning attack on its own as that will be easy to read and counter.
I wanna throw my spinning attack after a punch or a kick - like from low kick (can just be a feint as well) to spinning attack, or left jab to right spinning back kick.
That will cover and make the opponent think about the first attack coming toward them - especially the jab because that will cover the opponents eye some what
The Dark Souls roll wasn't believable, someone with a giant club didn't appear out of nowhere and slam him into the ground.
someone only in rags"
He didn't get roll-caught by the white phantom with a Claymore either
He also didn't get CSS'd by some random mage
The host didn’t die randomly
Ay yo.. cool photo profile
Athleticism definitely plays a large part. For example, if I tried the roll maneuver this man tried, I would of landed on my head, then proceeded to hit myself in the nuts with my own swords.
HAHAHAHHA
Made sure you're filming when you do this and post it... I wanna see!
when you think you're the chosen undead but you remember you're in your mid 30s and haven't done anything crazy in the last 10 years mid fatroll.
Oh yeah, the Lizzy Tagliani move
😬
As a Chinese swordsmanship practitioner, I know some of the background here. The red one is called "MoJun". It is not his real name, I do not know his real name, but this name is recognized the Chinese swordmanship community; the meaning is "evil lord" or "evil gentleman" depends on your interpretation on "Jun". The name of blue one is Minjun, Cui who is a student of Mojun. So you know the situation here is same as many stories in Chinese martial art matches: Master fights his student. This mathch is pretty much designed for demonstration of Mojun's fancy weapon techniques. I do not know if there is arrangement on this match or not, but this fact redueces the credibility of this match as a real high intensive ,full resistant combat. Also Mojun has mentioned that the weapon he uses is not a hook sword, it is a "Feng tou ge"(凤头铬, I do not have a good translation). Unlike hook sword which has a hook at its frondend, Fengtouge has a pointy perpendicular chisel which can peck into opponent when swing it. This makes Fengtouge's usage forcues more on striking rather than hooking.
Yeah i recognizes the swords not really shaped like a hook rather it looks like a sword with a pick
Great knowledge
The description made it clear that it's more of a demonstration for some of the more unconventional techniques. It's an exhibition match if u will
@@AlifyaNursukmaForicha 👍very detailed
@@gavinlee6196 Yeah, but you can clearly see some tendency on judgement. Even not very fair for a exhibition mathc.
"If you are the best swordsman, do not fear the second best swordsman; you must fear the worst swordsman, for you have no idea what they are going to do."
- Sun Tzu
if you don't know what your opponent is going to do then maybe you aren't that good of a swordsman, and it's the opposite way around.
The whole point of sword fighting is to not let your opponent know your next moves to begin with
@@veryveryhonestpendufan6062 okay, to disprove your point I'll bring up something very unrelated at first glance but actually a nice comparison:
Poker. This game it's 99% of trying to predict and understand everything your opponent does. But! Good and even the best poker players say that bad or even newbies in poker are actually very damn tedious and unpredictable to play against, because they don't follow any logic and order besides "hmmm, this sounds cool". Yes, they usually win, but it's very damn annoying and stressful for someone who's entire carrier is about predicting the opponent.
Pretty much the same with sword fighting if we take your " It's all about prediction " Point
@@shawermus Again, As you said , poker is 99% of the time trying to know you opponents next move or predict whatever they are going to do.
So someone unpredictable wouldn't be a noob as those "best poker player" claim.
That's the whole purpose of the game, being unpredictable, cause your opponent will be working to predict what you are going to do, so this is the other way around the most unpredictable ones should be called the pros.
To win at poker, you need to be unpredictable, the true best of the best have mastered that.
Other than sword fighting and poker are totally not the same there's no sense in comparing them.
That's a bad comparison
@@veryveryhonestpendufan6062 okay, I'd argue but after like 99 times I understood that comment section arguing always ends in infinite loops of misunderstanding until someone surrenders
I think the guy in blue just wanted to do something cool after red pulled off the spin XD
he tried to surprise red by extending the range of his attack, it could work but his edge alignment was bad
This kind of event looks more like pro wrestling to me. Not that thats a bad thing but it looks very showy on purpose to maximize viewership.
Probably
Um... red did the dive roll.
Yup. I also sense too much anime influence.
“Spinning is useless in practical combat!”
Obi-wan Kenobi “Only a Sith deals in absolutes.”
anikan skywalker: I try spinning that is a good trick *gets cut in half*
@@marcopeter7581 He really though he could do a Kenobi and defeat someone on the high ground? 😂
Fun fact: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" is an absolute.
@@spamspasm8183 it's an absolute statement, but is it "dealing" in an absolute? Slight difference.
Speaking if obi wan Kenobi, During that fight he does a couple of spins. And for at least one of them, I think I got a justification (other than it looking cool and not utterly terrible, which is reason enough).
So, he's walking backwards as Anakin attacks him. He doesn't Know what's behind him, and the terrain is potential not there or blocked. So, by spinning, he gains a view of the terrain, and can thus continue retreating without fear of getting fecked by something he couldn't see.
If it looks stupid but it works, it isn't stupid - Murphy's Rules of Combat.
Based.
If it looks stupid but it works, you got lucky and it was still stupid.
@@Vanastar well that's like denying that if you enjoyed the time you spent then it's not wasted i mean obviously everything is absolutely subjective and relative and nothing is objectively true so if it works it works and there's no reason to try arguing with that i mean if you win ww3 throwing rocks at people obviously nobody will look up to you and switch to rocks but it will work for you so it's definitely not stupid cuz again objectivity is an illusion
@@Vanastar The enemy only has to get lucky once. Let that sink in a minute.
People are stupid and we still work 💪makes sense!
That stance at 4:00 is called a "die bu", 蝶步, or single leg butterfly stance. And it's basically used for every super hero landing. :)
Also known as "dragon's den"
Is this a wushu stance because I’ve done northern Shaolin for a while but I’ve never heard of this stance before. Seems very interesting
@@amogussussus7277 it is, but it is mainly used in southern styles or modern taolu performances.
Samurai battles must have been crazy bad ass looking in real
@@Bee-tj8gc This is Chinese martial arts, not Japanese
Honestly, this type of thing reminds me of the idiom "Know the rules before you break them." These seem to be extremely skilled fighters, who know when they can afford to deviate from the standard wisdom because of their experience letting them know the actual rules of fighting, not the simplified version of the rules you need to learn in order to get a chance to get enough experience to learn the actual rules.
Also adds to the unpredictable. If the opponent knows spinning is silly, he will be caught by surprise when an opponent tries it.
It's like playing ranked games and casual games. Usually the casual opponents are much more unpredictable and ridiculous, you don't expect it. In ranked, everyone's doing META so it's easily predictable.
A contemporary dance teacher that I know always said that if you want to break the square, you need to learn the square, because how can you break something if you don't know how it works.
@@Awootistic Recruit rush? Lol
Also use of unequal props. The hookblades are of a much firmer polymer compared to the weebstick which at multiple points in the video bent heavily out of shape in situations even a regular vinyl or MDI sprayed prop wouldnt.
In high school I fenced an adult much better than me. I was lunging like crazy and leaping back out of range. I just didn't have his blade skills. I lost 4-6 but he was laughing impressed saying 'this kid will do anything to get to me'. So I agree, skill is better. But being athletic really helps.
Personally, I prefer the fleche to the lunge, but that's an opinion. I likely would've lost too.
I have a supporting experience, I competed in a Karate Tournament when I was 14, there were 24 of us, 18 were brown/black belts, I was a green belt. Watching these guys warm up, I knew I had no chance if I made it about any kind of technique. But I was a good athlete (hockey player) so I decided to just "charge" when a moment was opportune- and turn everything into a close range hand speed thing... I won 2 matches that way, made it the final 8, and then met the black belt who evenutally made it to the final. He just whomped me every time I tried to rapidly close my distance... But I turned a few heads... sometimes your approach works...
@@andrewlove1971 Hockey player? So you were basically a teenage Hulk, but hopefully not green. Who knew how to get hit in the face. And just talking to you I suspect fast. I am almost surprised there was a black belt that could beat you. But there is always someone.
@@andrewlove1971 Athleticism really helps. It's not like the Varsity fencing I did where sure you had to be fast but skill was paramount. I got totally creamed by an Olympic fencer when I was in great shape. Well 5-2 is maybe not creamed but my opponent demanded the ref reverse one of those points and award it to me, saying 'did you not see where he tagged my sword arm shoulder before I landed?" He was telling the truth, but the point is fencers are some of the most honorable athletes. It was an angles thing. I was fighting left handed but I went to the side of the strip exposing his right shoulder. This is why 'The Princess Bride' cracks fencers up so much because you really can mess someone up by using your your blade in your off hand.
That's what I did in Judo. My senior were kicking my ass, then I suddenly pull some bs make shift trip I invented myself, the dude was like WTF, and we ended up both felt LOL, but hey, that's the only time I manage to trip him at the cost of falling myself of course
This is how i imagine gladiatorial combat, martially sound but intentionally flashy
Desperation sometimes looks flashy
You probably described Chinese martial arts perfectly though
I guess oriental martial arts mostly work out due to both side learning the same thing... actually makes sense how some random vagabond manages to beat masters in some films xD
@@IETass modern historical Chinese MA are mostly a revival of historical show combat. It was very popular and extensively practiced since XVIII century (think travelling showmen in the street and sport for nobility). At some point actual martial arts were pretty much gone with the exception of these show fights with floppy swords* and pointless over the top movements and exercise/tradition kind of thing (way before Mao's era in which communists first killed every martial artist they could and then decided to promote martial arts as sport kekw).
*I recall a mention about proper non-floppy weaponry even being banned at some point (active troops being the exception) but I'd be hard pressed to find it so I'm only mentioning it as a sidenote
@@Sk0lzky are you mostly referring to wushu here?
"I'll try spinning, that's a good move" -Red, probably
I don’t even know you and yet I’m immensely proud of you for that reference.
“SPIN MOVE!” Would’ve been the next best choice.
(Dwight K. Schrute)
Good, Anakin, Good!
blue starts looking for high ground real bloody fast
@@JustintheJustin Or from HLVRAI's Gordon Freeman.
Guy with the hookswords didn't only pull off a dark souls roll, he used his swords as a bloodborne trick weapon
Literally the Rakuyo. He clearly invested a lot of blood echoes into his skill stat.
omg you're RIGHT, hook sword dual weapons need to be in a Bloodborne sequel or elden ring
Somebody stop me if i'm wrong, but i think thats an actual technique
Everyone is gangsta until the opponent press L1 IRL
@@Chamadzero My controller is vibrating irl.
It feels like there is a gentleman's agreement to not punish a super cool move that misses
To be honest, thats kind of the crux of the whole thing. When it comes to gauging the realism and practicality of something involving a deadly competition... being a fight with pads and fake swords already nullifies any "findings" imo. Its like the video game effect, using Battlefield as an example... where you can't really draw any comparisons of the game to the real world scenario of a war, because 9/10 the team is committing to actions you know they didnt/wouldnt do in real war, out of fear of losing their life, being demoted, being kicked out of the military, or being imprisoned for war crimes, etc. You got players stealing jeeps and just running them on to the field, trying to run people over for kills, suicide jeep runs EVERYWHERE, people running into well fortified bunkers just hoping to kill at least 2 guys, being gung ho or akimbo. If there was fear of real death in those games, players would obviously be way more conservative in their approach and technique. You might be able to argue "fear of losing money" for tournaments, but even then, its still not quite the same as fearing you'll lose your life.
This "fight" doesnt really prove the practicality of that roll slash, because as you could clearly see, he completely lost his footing, and should your opponent actually be inclined to kill you for such a mistake, you would be done for. No one would perform this maneuver in a REAL sword fight, because its too risky with a high chance of missing, messing up, and/or leaving you vulnerable.
@@alexbishop5004 I wouldn't say no one would try it. But practically, the swordsman would try to do everything to the hookboy to ensure his footing is not regained, then capitalize on the advantage.
@@alexbishop5004 Well I think he lost his footing mostly because he ran out of space and kind of ran into the edge of the ring, but overall you make some very good points
@@alexbishop5004 But strapping C4s to a bike and running it against a tank is an effective strategy!
@@alexbishop5004 you must be really fun at parties. :v
I've always referred to moves like these as flourishing attacks. With well trained ability, they can often catch someone more traditionally trained off guard. It's unexpected and an immediate counter is often missed. It falls into the risk reward category. While it should never be a go to move, when timed and applied right, it could change or even end the fight.
Use it at the wrong time or against the wrong opponent, it can still end the fight. Just in the opponent's favor.
exactly like in mma. you don't just go and pull a spinning backfist as soon as the match starts and you take distance with ur opponent. you gotta set it up.
It makes me wonder about the stories of Miyamoto Musashi, one of history's greatest swordsman. At some point maybe he realizes most good swordsmen at the time relied on traditional techniques and was able to best his rivals by doing things out of the ordinary.
I kept waiting for the crazy move where they put the hooks together and swing one from the other in a giant circle like an absolute madman.
@Zamasu Arkane I've never been a fan of fighting games because my reaction time is terrible and I can't remember combos, so I've only seen people do it IRL; but if I remember right, they were actual shaolin monks. There's another crazy move from shaolin with a staff, where you're literally just hanging off the thing. The highest levels of martial arts are extremely impressive.
@M Aditya Permana it has more to do with the shape of the hook than the material. I know there's different names for different variations, and a lot of them are used differently, but I don't know what the actual names are. Basically, the one he's using has more of a spike than a hook, and its easier to do the crazy swing move with a more pronounced hook, that ends facing closer to the grip side than straight out.
It’s not hard to do it. Because of the hooks are pretty deep, centripetal force will hold it in place and you literately double the length of you weapon. Heavier/sturdier weapons would help.
However, the tricky parts are: how to retrieve it quickly, without cutting yourself? Because this is not the setup you can really fight for a long time with. And what if someone parry one or the other sword, will one sword fly away or swing back and hit you in the face? This trick probably works best as a finishing move when opponent tries to back away from your range.
This move is called 连锁(chain). The hook sword in the video can't do it. The hook sword must be curved.
I remember that being in Crouching Tiger, hehe.
The advantage with spinning techniques is that the opponent, even if victorious, will end up looking bad.
"I know he died from a backstab, but I swear I did not do anything dishonorable, he just tried this weird spin thing."
"Uh-huh, ok, Philip, whatever you say."
so, you're saying your enemy are kind of morally obligated to let you finish the spin?
Underrated comment
@@alvinreinaldy5148
Unless in literal real war.
@@redblade5556 well of course, fuck honors in wars. nobody can prove your war crimes if they're dead
@@alvinreinaldy5148 "All war crimes are based" - Sun Tsu
We'll slowly realize that reality is crazier than fiction.
At some point we'll say "at least fiction has to make some sense"
I mean it was a demonstration so, i dunno
@@spinosaurusstriker only the last bit was a demonstration. the beginning seem to be a real match
@@spinosaurusstriker We also gotta remember. Most of us work 8 hour jobs and is surrounded by entertainment. Someone who was trained since childhood has a lot of potential. I bet samurai duels were masterful between legends that aren't named.
I recommend you look up MadJack Churchill. He is a great example of reality being crazier than fiction. He is essentially Captain America but without the enhancements and is even crazier. Instead of fighting Nazis with an advanced shield, je fought with am ordinary sword and bow, and he managed to kick ass. His life even reads like a crazy action movie.
Yea reality can be fucky. I learned that years ago
What Skallagrim stopped short of saying is that is that if you have that much skill and athleticism over your opponent, there are probably much less risky ways of winning.
He was clearly trying to counter the sword meta, his opponent is prob trained in orthordox fencing or chinese sword fighting which is rigid. Using weapons that can catch blades and deflect them while moving around quickly gets him much more hits and a higher score.
Where's the fun in that?
😂😂
Ur not asian u just cant
A flexible bamboo can survive storms better than a rigid tree.
Pretty crazy how you can almost envision it like a fighting game when you go through the frames individually.
"Oh that's a 10 frame poke"
"That's a 21 frame hell sweep"
That's launch punishable!
Shoutouts to George St-Pierre for using frame data in his UFC fights. Quoting from an EventHubs article:
"I had a guy when I was training, when I was champion during my Welterweight run," St-Pierre starts. "I had a guy who was measuring frames. Nobody knows that. He was watching [the] fight and was making frames with an image."
He explains that his trainer would count each frame of a fighter's punch, and collecting this data determined how fast their reaction time was.
Especially cuz of the kabal weapons it makes is seem like real MortalKombat
@@_Snowflame as someone who doesn't know much about martial arts but has played fighting games, I would have thought this was the norm
"Guaranteed wakeup"
13:47 Even if the swordfighter managed to get to him, the i-frames from the roll would have protected the guy with the hook swords :P
Just use a command grab smh
He really has to watch out for that lag stab though. He was wide open.
@@yeyo1019 the sword guy should just execute a forward roll of his own to the back of red and backstab him. Noobs
Red set the move up, after the first attack of flurry strikes. Blue retreated in a straight line and defending his centerline with small fast movements. Red switched the timing with longer strikes that took up a longer distance, blue didn’t have an answer for that so he got caught.
All sports are situational, you create an opportunity to make the technique work.
I do this all the time in my basketball league. Either on offense or defense. I will fake going for a steal to make the ball handler change hands or crossover and I will time that with my actual steal attempt.
Good point on the situational aspect of sports. In life or death fighting, red probably wouldn't have pulled the spin move. But he understands he is in a sport, not a fight to the death. In the context of the situation, the move was excellent.
high quality HEMA and Eastern Weapon sports will hopefully soon get as popular as mainstream MMA, but even if they don't this kind of competition will actually push what is possible and perhaps help develop some very flashy and interesting styles in a rules based system where you only have to fear losing and getting hurt, not getting murdered by the other guy.
The off direction R1 into roll catch…
@bastiat competitive level fighters that's who. Once you train skills to proficient levels, certain parts of those skills become reflexive, freeing the mind to ponder strategy and actually feel like they are slowing time becuase they have seen certain movements so many times they can instinctually visualize and react to those movements faster than they can be executed. There is a massive difference between a realm of rules/hierarchy and survival/anarchy, and we aren't discussing that sort of thing what so ever....though the same exact skills would translate, but those with more experience in life and death fighting would have the massive reactionary advantage all other skills being equal. If you were correct, then the art of Fencing is a sham and you would think those fighters aren't thinking while they compete...is that what you are saying? Are you saying that I am not thinking and reacting to my opponent while in the middle of practice duels? Please tell me you aren't actually this obtuse.
I've seen the hookblades a lot in games and a few times in movies, but i never thought i'd actually get to see a "real" wielder showing them off in practice! It's extremely cool to see!
It reminds me of the spinning backfist in MMA... it seems unrealistic but if pulled of correctly its extremely effective and unexpected.
Yep. Reminds me also of that one video I saw with a capoeira guy in an MMA ring. You could call capoeira a load of spinny nonsence too, but he knocked out his opponent in about ten seconds flat. XD I think the opponent was even trying to block, but there was just way too much momentum behind that kick.
@@Regina316 spinning nonsense? i thought so as well lol, but capoeira was developed as a self defense combat style, it was designed by slaves to beat the shit out of authorities and alike so they wouldn't go back to the farms, if i remember correctly it was even used in a rebellion or two here in brazil.
The difference is that after spinning backfist nobody will cut off Your head.
I've always found that is a terrible move in a fight UNLESS you somehow find yourself already in the spin inadvertently. Works for a recovery when you just found your back turned to your opponent, if you can think fast. But it's not practical as an intentional move.
@@jackr5131 that's pretty much the real reason for spinning, when your momentum is too high than going along is just faster than fight against it to regain your position
For that spin move, if the hook lands and pierces into the swordsman, the follow through could pull the swordsman to the ground instead of leaving him standing.
Yeah, it seem like it hit between the rip or through a rib, that shit would hurt like a bitch. Not deep enough to hit a internal organ through, but it depends.
true2x
While also shredding the lung it hits...a collapsed lung is the end of the fight
I just said something similar, I think the fighters recognize this and is why the action stopped at that point
The issue is where he is, his opponent is way more stuctured
First acepting katanas now fancy moves
Slowly but contantly Skall embraces the weebness
Katanas were always good
Skall: "Today I am going to demonstrate the quality of this new weeb body pillow. As you can see, it's quite large and pink so.."
@@Spiceodog he didn´t like them some years ago
@@Spiceodog
Authentic katanas aren't terrible, but they are objectively worse weapon than an authentic european longsword (two handed sword). Maybe even worse than an arming sword.
@@Gyvulys but you can’t deflect bullets with a long sword.
Well this guy is using less HEMA tactics and seems to be more focusing on a more Shaolin style of armed fighting, a lot of their stuff is very acrobatic and explosive movements
Now that you mention it. I haven't really seen an analysis of the validity of these chinese armed fighting styles
@@KunjaBihariKrishna I think there are some people out there who reviewed it. Overall there is some strong basis in Chinese armed styles in a practical setting, but the extra spins and flourishes you tend to see tend to be mostly reserved for performances or exercises for building other things such as flexibility, dexterity, control, or precision. Perhaps in a 1v1 setting it might work, but on the battlefield not so much.
@@KunjaBihariKrishna it’s definitely much harder to get it right but it can be effective
@@coolyeh1017 agreed
@@coolyeh1017 I suppose we could argue that historically, an army needed a reliable way to "show its strength". So if a government official visited, or there was a need to display military strength, you would have your fighters do things that are visually impressive. So maybe now it's not so clear anymore how much of those moves are the "demo version".
Most people forget what Vesemir said: always parry after spin. It may be shity advice but it is better than flailing
The only techniques I apply to my every day modern swordsmanship come from fictional characters. I haven’t lost a LARP yet
@@stevebean1234 Sorry, but I just imagined you wielding 3 swords at once and spinning rapidly.
@@Tastingo117 bruh watch he pull out 8 swords
But spin attacks don't exist and never happened.
@@lucascoval828 oh they do exist. And they are perfect way to score hit. Only problem is, that the point is easy to get for opponent. Not user.
What you said about afterblows made me think of something an instructor once said to me.
"There are three general outcomes to a fight: 1) you kill me, 2) I kill you, and 3) we kill each other. Two of those are bad for me, so I'd rather avoid a fight if I can."
Obviously, there's some stuff between each of those, but I think the point still stands :P
The first step of a fight is "don't". If step 1 can't be fulfilled, fight until it can.
That idea ties into something that bugs me about medieval battle scenes in movies. There are rarely any tactics or formations (or spears! where are the spears??). Everyone just runs at each other and pairs off into duels, but this is completely ridiculous because it ignores the fact that people don't want to die. There would be formations, and soldiers would be using weapons that put some distance between themselves and the enemy. I think the only movie that came close to any kind of accuracy in this regard was Alexander. Too bad it's kind of a boring movie, but there are some pretty decent battle scenes.
@@choronos Man so true! I would love to see some realistic fighting scenes!!!
@@bartimaus8738 Hopefully there's a director out there with a vision working on such a thing right now. Have you seen Master and Commander? It's the most immersive period movie I've ever seen. It's not medieval of course, it's about a fictional early 19th century British naval captain, but its existence gives me hope that someone will try to make a historically accurate film about the medieval period. If I ever become a filmmaker as is my dream, I'll try to make it happen. I'd like to do a film about the Crusades, or perhaps the Viking Age.
choronos master and commander is a great example of immersive history and that showed in the combat as well which was generally ugly, bloody and convincing. Best medieval historically accurate battle examples and tactics in historical fiction would be Saxon tales series by Bernard cornwell. Particularly front line shield wall combat so check that out and season 1 and 2 of Vikings had some great looking shield wall/ melee fight Scenes What I wanna see is the power of medieval heavy Calvary charge and really show how devastating it could be for those defending against it.
This guy is actually really smart. The duel wielding and athleticism + lighter armour than full steel really works in his favour for all these moves. Being able to move REALLY fast before the enemy can go "oh he's spinning like an idiot quick quick stab him" he knocks the sword to the side and hits him. Its actually genius if you think about it. Hes using everything to his advantage. The unpredictability, the duel wielding, athleticism, light armour etc is all planned and its amazing.
@@bellsando6506 They generally don't.
There's a reason you never find this in any manuscripts or full studies of combat.
It's highly risky, there's a lot of inefficient movement in it leading to wasted energy, you're making yourself incredibly exposed if it doesn't work, you're effectively betting on being faster and more agile and to take your opponent off-guard, that you can make your movements so well that it pushes through all of the dangers and risks involved.
This makes what that man did all the more impressive.
Your comment is very on point. The hook swords, in history, are meant to be wielded by light-armored or even no-armor infantry. The weapon aggressively emphasizes dexterity and efficiency instead of self-defense.
Modern day Musashi
bro is playing actual dark souls
Weakest dex build
The spinning attack he actualy jumped and spun in th or landing flawlessly into a spinning knee. Quite beautiful.
As a long time viewer with a decade of martial arts (unarmed) experience, I have really enjoyed skall's evolution from generic pretentious HEMA snob to a really open minded martial artist. I completely agree that I am no expert and neither is he, but that A) you shouldn't discount something just because you've never seen it before and B) anything is possible with sufficient experience, skill and fitness. Keep up the good work my friend.
Roy Jones is the first person who comes to mind on this. He was so athletic that he could pull off unconventional moves that would normally be considered poor technique. Of course, once he got slower and older, he got KOed.
That said, unarmed fighting in sports is admittedly different from armed combat.
Skall was pretentious ? Wow, really ? Damn.
@@riichobamin7612 He sometimes came across as being pretentious. As do all people, you know, speaking their mind on the Internet^^
@@ThunderLord1 aah okay. Thanks !
@@someguy3186 yeah I feel like I've seen enough dumb shit work in MMA both on the mat and on tv that anyone saying "This looks fake" just hasn't seen enough fighting. It might not work all the time, but highlight reels are full of spins, rolls and pointless jukes that isn't maximized efficiency. I feel like these youtube folks are constantly distracted by what the "right" way is to do things because they don't want to look dumb, but then end up looking dumb being shocked by a spin.
While not entirely practical, fancy moves do serve a purpose. Intimidation. Pull them off effectively, and you can shake your opponent to their very core. Do them poorly and not only do you look like an idiot, you're basically dead as well.
You're not talking about "Fancy moves vs Orthodox moves", you're talking about "Skilled performance vs Unskilled performance".
It's like unorthodox chess moves: either you don't know what you're doing or you know VERY WELL what you're doing
Thing is, with certain weapons especially in asia certain styles simply look fancy while a lot plays into them. Especially with chinese weapons, certain moves are done to add impact or confuse the opponents or for example with the hook swords. The spin attack functions as a way to suprise and pull the other weapon away, and with a last hit you would be able to hook into flesh and pull the opponent around.
Sorry just to recap shortly, fancy looking moves are sometimes just part of a certain style.
pull it bad enough and break enemy concentration with unstoppable laugh
@Heavy Metal Pulp im not really familiair with fa jin, but i was mostly thinking about specificly certain weapons. The hookswords can be incredibly dangerous if you can suprise your opponent, one way to do that is make constant flashy moves. Theres a reason dancers used these weapons too, other than that jians and doas also used a more fluent fighting style i believe which could also be considered "flashy" if that makes sense.
Maybe its just the chinese way of fighting, they certainly like to portray it that way in their movies etc.
one thing about the spin attack is that when your enemy already started spinning, he will not stop the attack even if you hit him first due to the inertia. That prevents you from going in directly. It's more like a gamble.
High risk high reward
Actual hyperarmor
Ya it's a competition move not a real combat move. Here Blue might have poked into Red during the spin that ref may or may not catch and it may very well have glanced off and Red at worst just lose in this attempt.
In real life and death if Red'd armpit gets pierced simply because he exposed himself going for the spin then...
spinning attacks are only effects in a particular range, which requires lots of timing and luck almost. easy to block and distance from and requires a lot of effort for how much it opens you up. IRL it's probably a shit move unless you know you can land that hit by surprise
You have to step inside the attack, you'll get an rlbo
This man memorized all the attack patterns
The foot work of Red before the spin attack is very good, a real well built move.
True! The way he turns his front foot first just before advancing to better initiate the spin afterwards was great. Otherwise the initial foot positioning would have kind of locked his leg in place more.
He definitely practiced that move A LOT
@@TimmyTurner421 I agree, plus he’s clearly a well trained fighter
must've played a lot of Bushido Blade (maybe not, probably too young)
This the guy kind of guy who catches the Pommel when you throw it at him
Bravo
Undefeatable
@donflamingo795
Rich Evans?
For honor executions
godzilla had a stroke trying to read this and fucking died
"Unconventional"- Mark Twain said in a book once "The best swordsman in the world has nothing to fear from the 2nd best swordsman. He's got to worry about some idiot who comes along and does the unexpected, and kills him." 😂 Great video as always Skal!
True
True, you got Miyamoto Musashi beating samurai by been a drunk, stinky, hobo look alike that arrives at the duel late to insult them and with a fucking log or an oar to beat the shit out of em and win
That's true I have a friend who fenced for years i on the other hand have seen Errol Flynn movies we were fooling about with a plastic sword and a piece of dowling he nearly lost a eye and still has a scar to this day
@@luna775 Musashi aways hass a lot in his favour. He was phisically strong and incredibly smart.
I'm not a sword fighter, but I do play Soccer and I can say for sure it's so weird to try and fake out a bad player, because they aren't skilled enough to defend properly, so they are simply oblivious to all the fake outs haha. Sometimes a lack of skill really can give you some luck!
These “while the counter hit might be just as fatal” arguments are exactly the kind of questions the Roman’s must have *hated*
Wait why the Romans? Those guys had massive shields and some of the best armour for their age explicitly *because* it meant the enemy had a hard time hitting back.
This reminds me how fencing was the hardest experience I've ever had in learning how to do and accurately defend and repost.
As a lifelong empty hand mixed martial artist and kickboxer, a long pointed stabby wand was a crazy combat world for my brain to adapt to.
I just couldn't stand a chance when it came to dueling this guy who was 6'4" due to his extra arm length advantage on me and keeping such distance and me on constant defense.
I had the lefty advantage to everyone else in the class but it didn't matter against him, or this little 14 year old girl who'd been fencing there for over a decade. She slaughtered me.
How did that effect your hand-to-hand?
Might just be me, but I'd expect that transitioning back, it'd make you more aggressive.
@@magne7771 it built my confidence in going in more and finding openings in sparatches for sure!
@@AverageGabriel Oh yeah. Might be watchin' too much _shit_ lately, but I was imaginin' some sorta flash-step bullcrap. Bell rings, there's just a friggin' rush of wind, they blink, and you're already standing under em, rearing up for the _mother of all haymakers._
Just by virtue of having that damn pointy end gone, and no longer needing to be _that_ kind of quick and precise, yeah, I felt like it'd turn a person more into a _space invader._ Promote a real _in your face_ fightin' style.
Cool to know I was right.
If I were you, I'd give other forms of armed combat a chance, to see if there's more overlap.
...Which is more my speed. I can definitely see any kind of hand-to-hand with a _bearded axe, even one off-hand,_ would make you more prone to go for counters and grapples. Considering, as an off-hand, it allows you to catch the handle or arm of anyone opposite you, and either disarm or straightup grab or throw them.
Combined with that new instinct to _charge_ in, I can almost see that resulting in a very _rough_ fighting style. The kind where you counter, and throw them to the side by the arm.
Honestly, that's why this video caught my attention. The guy did practically the same kind of thing I might've gone for, with a LONG sword, and a bearing axe, if it were the kind of setting where you _could_ deviate like that.
_This_ part is for me.
But yeah, the whole idea was to give a _Bearing sword_ a use, by taking advantage of its light weight and crazy range- by using a shorter hooking weapon to parry, strike first, or catch weapons. Before coming down on them with the two-hander. I might not have gone for a SPIN, but I very much would have went for a first strike like that, to _wrench_ one or both of their blades away.
...Sorry 'bout the rant. I'm a writer, and for the longest while now, I've been focused a _lot_ on the mechanics of a good fight scene. Practical applications of martial arts, _and_ a bit of flair, to portray the fight as an expression of pure body language.
This whole thing was really interesting.
@@magne7771 hey fellow writer, do you have any advice about setting a fight scene? Maybe how to learn more about the "mechanics of a fight", as you say?
Totally
There's also Tony "Boogeyman" Ferguson who consistently pulls dark souls rolls in UFC fights.
He's really fun to look at
Well he sometimes gets hit when he does it, but in that context its not so risky than if weapons would be involved.
This is exactly what I thought lol
He also puts wing Chun moves and some tiger tail low kicks into his moves. It's really fun to watch considering he seems to enjoy doing those moves.
Tactically speaking rolls in UFC is actually a working albeit situational move as it messes up stances, creates awkward positioning, and simply is disorienting. Despite this in UFC context there is no way to get caught, no way to get truly stabbed, and has momentum to get you out of a risky area like a corner
The odd times were Tony has pulled that off, and had his opponent swinging at him and missing as he was rolling away, is some of the funniest shit that has ever happened in a UFC octagon.
Hook Swords are SO UNDERATED. Legit some of the most practically versatile weapons ever invented, and no one really uses or trains against them. Obviously, some people do (as shown here) but for the most part I feel like they're kind of a hidden gem. Hell, even Skall was pleasantly surprised at the display of using them as a polearm.
Ikr they can trap a weopen and potentially disarm your foe. Very versatile indeed.
I've trained with them some and they are fantastic weapons, but the main flaw is a lack of good and safe ways to stow and draw the weapons. One of the biggest issues I've had, when training live steal, is picking them up or putting them down in the field without accidentally cutting myself or damaging the blade. Now, maybe TCMA have ways to deal with this, that is not my background.
@@creepypuppetspresents5605 Alot of people don't train with them for thar very reason. As versatile as they are they are just as dangerous to the user as they are the opponent, especially in more advanced techniques that require more athletiism or dexterity. Something that you'd have to seriously condition for. But that would make perfect sense for monks and the like as the train their whole lives to use such weapons
Wouldn't a sickle be a good somehowmakedowithwhatyouhave version of hookswords?
Preface: I've got no sword training so I might be completely wrong, but my reasoning seems sound to me.
I wouldn't say more options, just different ones, while also being far more problematic. Like you can hook their weapon, but you can also lose yours if it gets hooked in armor+clothes+flesh+bones. Take that spinny torso hit for example. You manage to get the spike between their ribs, and yeah it'll probably kill your opponent eventually, but it'll get stuck in there and when you continue your spin it's going to fly out of your hand and ruin your spin. Or what if you don't pierce the flesh at all, but instead a few bunched up layers of clothes, now you can either lose your weapon or stand there tugging while they chop you to pieces.
Also, you lose significantly on slashing and piercing. The hook restricts your piercing depth, and you risk getting it entangled. Slashing is going to be even worse. Compare a normal sword slash where you can follow through and pretty much instantly be ready to strike again, to a hook sword which is going to cut a bit and then impale your opponent with the hook, forcing you to fuck around trying to get it out while he and his friends are swinging at your head.
And as others have said, you can't sheath them so it's pretty much useless in both civilian and military scenarios.
Compare that mess to wielding a rapier and a parrying dagger in civilian scenarios. You sacrifice a large portion of that hooking power, but you get a far better and safer sword for killing unarmored opponents, and you can carry it around without looking like a madman getting ready to kill everyone around you. And if you're going to war, a sword and board will actually give you a reasonable chance to come back home without prohibiting you from using a lot of the techniques you trained (you're not going to fly around, twirling and rolling in the middle of a battle and survive).
There's a reason why it's only present in Chinese martial arts where the goal is to look cool while you're jumping around and twirling on your own, instead of safely and efficiently killing your enemies. European smiths definitely had the idea and technology to add hooks and spikes to weapons, but you don't see it on swords since it's a shit idea.
On that first one he was actually perfectly set up for a front right shoulder roll where he would have easily dodged that possible blow to the head
Then what, people tend to forget you can drop your weapons and start grappling. He could roll, but then what. He would be in a bad position against a longer weapon. Or get ambushed and choked thefuckmout
“The best swordsman in the world doesn't need to fear the second best swordsman in the world; no, the person for him to be afraid of is some ignorant antagonist who has never had a sword in his hand before; he doesn't do the thing he ought to do, and so the expert isn't prepared for him; he does the thing he ought not to do; and often it catches the expert out and ends him on the spot.” - Mark Twain
Touché. I love many a Mark Twain quote
Mark Twain wasn't a swordsman.
@@BelegaerTheGreat Mark Twain never lost a sword fight.
The pen is mightier than the sword
-may not have actually ever been said by the non-swordsman Mark Twain
@@hurrdurrmurrgurr this makes him a pretty good swordsman, not Miyamoto Musashi good, but still impressive
Skall has always done a great job at saying "I guees it could possible but you are gonna die trying, most likely" you have always given the benafit of the doubt and now it paid off
It feels so good
@@Meaty_Aberration yeah brother
“Most likely”
In 90%+ of combat situations, considering factors such as opponent and your own skill, weapon, and mentality, as well as current opponent state and your current state (attacking/guarding/off-balance/out of position), you will die. However, with a certain combination of all these factors, you will succeed.
@@birubu no way combat has a 90% mortality rate it probably closer to 20% or 30%
Dude's got skills! Really interesting breakdown, I love the slow motion replay with commentary.
Blue: I have mastered and honed my craft for decades, i am ready for anything.
Red: RANDOM BU||SH!T, GO!
Blue: Wut???
Red: "you've activated my trap card"
blue: "bro this is chess"
red: "you're right! and that's why I also sunk your battleship!"
Imagining this in the voices of Red and Blue from Overly Sarcastic. Oddly fitting.
While you studied the blade I played video games
"Random" style is actually a very legit strategy against highly "trained" opponents. Ready for anything? We'll see about that!
But is easy to swing a non metal sword
If you walk into a room and hear boss music but can't find the boss, hooked sword dude beat you there.
He turned his hook swords into a polearm, that's cool I like it.
Real-life Darth Maul
@@bobafat2082 lul, if Maul tried to pole arm his light saber, he would need more robo parts than just legs
I thought the follow up in your comment would be ", funniest shit i've ever seen"
If any of you are looking for that channel of the video, it's "Glory of Heroes勇士的荣耀"
Sadly most of the latest videos are Kick Boxer
"Its easy to over-analyze something in a bad way". I am guilty of this at times. Mostly when I see "flashy" moves. This is definitely an interesting video, I never thought I'd see someone pull off a Dark Souls roll.
Damn Jet from avatar finally found his place in this world
I just finished that show today
Remember Sokkas sword teacher LITERALLY telling him to use his youth and agility to counter the experience of an older, more skilled opponent
@@fabianmuller6383 Yeeeesss
@@fabianmuller6383 this show was so much more than just a kid's cartoon series.
@@chilliam00 most definitely it had A LOT of great lessons within it and a masterful story. I have never met anyone who didn't like avatar who watched it all the way through.
The bending for example are all actual martial arts techniques that people practice.
The sword fights and techniques they use were great. The tips and advice on what to do during certian situations.
We got do much within the story
OK that was seriously awesome, exactly for the reason that Skall pointed out - that the same thing in a game would be deemed "unrealistic". And it also _looked_ awesome. Nice find!
After four+ years this video just put you back in everyones recommended
Lol, so true.
I know. My youtube front page has not had a Skallagrim video on it in ages.
Tbh the title probably helped in my case as Dark Souls is still found within my recommended tab
Hit the nail on the head cause I never heard of this Channel then boom this video in my recommended
Hi people from the future.
The fact that spinning back fists in mma can either knock your opponent on his bum with surprise or leave you totally exposed and knocked out, shows that its all up to timing and execution, when it comes to these type of techniques.
The crazy lads that simultaneously doing spinning back elbows and the one out of time and going first gets knocked out.
the same can be said about all techniques in all combat.
It's not "all down to timing an execution".
They are still bad moves to make and aren't even close to the most effecient it effective ways on top of being far far far more risky.
It's cool when someone pulls it off, but that doesn't make it a valid technique that should be encouraged.
Just because it CAN work, doesn't mean you should. There's far far far too much risk to make it worth doing.
Yeah even in unarmed (much shorter range, smaller levers, faster reaction times) an unusual skill can workm but weapons make things so much more dangerous, you can literally hold your weapon so your opponent impales himself.
Or spinning kicks. The spinning adds a lot of momentum and thus power, and it can be executed so fast your opponent can't try to exploit it without taking a serious risk of getting KO'd.
"This enraged Skall, who punished him severely."
Let's hope he will not grow up to be a mustached dictator.
An oversimplified reference, nice
Oh i see you are a man of culture aswell
@Son Goku Oversimplified.
He is actually not that exposed. The things called Tigerhooks and he could easily defend himself with the right one from the next attack, which could only come from the right as a swing or an overhead and he is in a good and pretty strong defensive state for that. Doing sword fighting for 10 years now, this move is awesome and extremely well performed :)
In high school our Cross country coach focused on Endurance and Stamina for our team. When I asked him why, he answered, "Any one can sprint a hundred yards, but not very many can sprint 2 miles, and even fewer can do it after running 1."
Stamina is important.
Yes. In my opinion in the old battles endurance and stamina were the key to survival. No matter how skillful a person can be if they tire themselves they are dead.
This applies to boxing, where stamina and a good guard and balance are the most basic and most essential things we train
The spinning attack which the Red opponent has done was actually quite lethal. If you check again, you will see that the left offhand attack hit about the shoulder neck area, which already would be a gaping wound if not the hook burying in the flesh and then tearing off. The main hand (right hand) last attack would definitely land in the ribs which he just need to pull (which he had done in the flow of the move) and you would definitely loose your lung or liver on the way. Not to mention such kind of attack would land a heavy traumatic shock on the receiving part. If he were able to collect his bearing from this attack, a counter attack with only the right hand (the blue guy) would be very shallow hence the pain and most probably the heavy blood loss that would occur during that time. Would that attack be feasible to do? Well lets say maybe 5 times out of 100 encounters + it depends on the protective gear of the opponent.
"Ill try spinning, thats a good trick"
-Sigurd the dragon slayer
I remember all those olympic archers crying about lars andersen doing crazy trickshots
Ima need a link
I think were crying about his unsubstantiated historical claims and disregard for modern archery technique
It was more about him making shit up.
@@channelforcommentingstuff4960 I honestly have no idea what you just said
@@channelforcommentingstuff4960 My big complaint with him was making those claims while shooting what seemed like a very low weight pull.
He's basically just doing dexterity work, which don't get me wrong, I bet ancient elite archers were VERY skilled at knocking and releasing, but they also had to work with much more difficult pulls so I don't think they could do that legolas style stuff so easily.
Dual wields, spins, rolls, and then literally combines his hook swords into a Bat'leth... and then scores a headshot. Practical uses for many typically impractical strategies. I like this guy.
Reference point: I've done some historic, but mostly "heavy" foam combat. I'm a mediocre fighter personally, but I've seen this delivered to much better combatants than myself:
There are 2 or 3 fighters that I have fought that use 'spinny s*' very efficiently.
One with dual swords or sword & shield, the other with dual swords or naginata(7 or 8').
I've tried it and definitely confirm the 'spinny idiot' stereotype.
One thing I will attest is the sudden movement reads initially as 'opponent moving left/right', but then the attack comes from the other side. I'm admittedly terrible at reading footwork, but they both perform a 1/2-3/4 turn with their lower half then 'snap' their core around quickly. Again I'm not great but its interesting how it disorients the interpretation of the opponent's movements.
The diving roll or lunging spin from a kneel with a round shield is also incredibly effective. The opponent almost always pulls a downward swing which is easily countered by shield placement & rarely retreat far enough to escape a upward slash to the thigh or midsection. I'm older, out of practice & fat now, but for some time I was known for 'sharking' people from a perceived 'vulnerable' position.
Like fighting I would never recommend doing moves you’re not good at, Bruce Lee talked a lot about this. Some people can do it but most can’t, depends on what kind of athlete you are.
I'm in my highschool's swordsmanship club, so probably not the most experienced on here, but our club instructor was once the state fencing champion so i'm atleast somewhat knowledgeable.
Anyways, yeah, spinning moves definitely can work but only if A. you have superior footwork to them, B. the weapon they're using isn't longer then yours, and C. you're fighting Florentine or some other duel wielding style, if you're missing one of these factors then it gets significantly less effective, and if you're missing two nearly impossible. So, it is true that most spin moves in movies and video games are kind of stupid, as not only do they lack this, but they don't even attempt to make attempt of using the fancier style to feint effectively, they always do full on attacks, which isn't even what i've found to be effective, you ironically enough want to be more on the defensive then the offensive, as sure, you're a spinning set of weapons, but, especially the worse your footwork is, the more openings you present, so if you're spinning as your main fighting style its more of guarding and doing feints until a sufficient opening gets created by the your enemies hopefully inferior footwork.
Now, even that has its own flaws, it looses its surprise factor if all you do is spin, so even if you were skilled enough to spin with hardly presenting any openings its still not ideal, just better to fight like normal, and then surprise them with it every once in a while, not only will it surprise them for that attack, it keeps them kind of focused on if you're gonna try it again, meaning that they may expect a feint when you are in-fact doing a proper attack regularly.
I've never met a spin fighter in foam combat who doesn't just get dunked on. Even mediocre shield users shouldn't have any real problems fighting them.
Even if you don't get caught in the back, they always end up out of position.
Especially worse in mass combat.
To be fair, you might not be as athletic as these guys, who are literally jumping around, rolling , spinning, etc. Most if not all HEMA guys I see, are very sluggish, not very athletic to begin with. The spin move is just like in MMA, made for those with the speed to pull it off. A lot of the time, most opponents won't even respond to it, as seen here.
This is a great explanation of the difference between maneuvers that work in a fight versus maneuvers that only work if they end the fight. That spinning slash combo not being a mid-fight maneuver.
BJ Penn is a good example of a guy who has exceptional athleticism combined with exceptional aptitude, combined with exceptional anatomy.
That all led to him pulling off really special things in matches.
Or Tony Ferguson, or Jiri Prochazca
Yup BJ, Tony Ferguson, Jiri, young Jon Jones...
Not that related but didn’t he recently get a dui?
until he meets Matt Hughes
Quoting Ramsey Dewey "Skill is an efficient use of athleticism"
You should watch Chinese last sword saint master Yu Cheng Hui a rare actual duel. He did a spin cut and cut his opponent tight.
"He pulled this off?"
*Slows down to 1x speed*
"Yea, I'm confused too."
When you play Darksouls so much you learn to pull off the moves irl
I will now be threatened by a veteran PvPer who also played as much that he knows how to *Roll Catch*
Miyamoto Musashi did "unconventional" things regularly. The rest is history. #Undefeated
"Come at me bruh, I only got an oar. It'll be easy, I promise. :^)"
I won’t argue with that. One thing that intrigued me were accounts that Musashi lost a duel to a guy who used a hanbo - I can’t really say if that is true.
“Master of the Sharpened Oar, Hero of the Blinding Sun, Progenitor of Being a Hack”
This Fate mythology gag aside you’re absolutely right.
@@Queenof09Nicole what mythology?
@@curtism-w6b Its a joke on how Miyamoto Musashi defeated Sasaki Kojiro
The reason the spinning attack worked is because he knows how to use it.
He forced his opponent into a dedicated defence with nowhere else to move to.
He also covered his back by drawing the opponent.
The stance is a variant on snake stance.
However it’s a bad leg position to be caught like this, and the spin was prematurely executed. If the opponent knew he fights like this; reward evasion taking a position to his opponents back was possible.
The dude done well, but did make exploitable mistakes.
Red is just straight up an anime character. Those moves were awesome! Plus the way he made a sword staff was just straight up rule of cool
8:08 just imagine somebody smashing a hooksword into your side and ripping it open so half your body is open. I think even the bravest warrior wont be able to instant punish the bladespin guy
the 2h guy hit the spinny guy in the side when he was facing backwards, so you cant discount that either
@@ryan-5494 I really can't tell it's the blade is still flexing from being hit, or if you made contact but, I reviewed it and then I watched it as skull reviewed it and I can't see a moment that convincingly looks like contact to me, only a bending blade
Red guy seemed like he could do a mostly rightward barrel roll given his position after that spinning attack. his left foot, right knee, and right foot are mostly collinear (a diagonal line from front-left to rear-right), while his crouching position biases his weight to the right. His arms and weapons also seem to be within the same diagonal direction, so they wouldn't really be an obstruction if he ever commits to the roll. The attacker's weapon is also positioned far away from the direction of the hypothetical roll, so there will be time to do such a maneuver.
Had he actually done that, I would've hyped so hard in awe.
Adrenaline.
@@samc9133 doesnt carery you trough if the injury is big enough.
he moved so much faster than one would expect! Just shows, that with enough training and practice, even the most impractical move can be made viable. I also noticed how Blue tried to guard against a more conventional move, only to realize to late what was coming. Blue blocked high while Red (on account of the spin) struck low, abusing the hole in Blue's defense.
When you think about it. People perform spinning back fists in MMA and boxing. Why wouldn't a spin attack work with weapons?
@@spin.chicken Might be due to weapons themselves can do a lot more damage than fists can, a wrong nick and you'd bleed to death so an added dimension of defense is required. Sure a wrong punch to the back of the head can kill a guy too but they'd need to put a lot of force into it.
yeah true but these attacks has the mechanic too! you cant do anytime so you need a chance and good timing! of course of you see the physic then it is very effective because the rotation give you extreme speed and acceleration so force = acceleration + mass ! honestly with full plate you are more effective! but still has more risk than you just parry and counter attack!
@@Gitami oh it's far more scary with weapons, I'm fully aware. But to think it wouldn't work is silly. Are you willing to risk it, is the question. People discard it though because of their fear, or they never see it done.
The only appropriate response would be a dodge backwards if possible, cause you ain't blocking that shit
"He who doeth the khoolness, shall end thy enemy a thousand fold in any battle" - Sun Tzu
Therapist: "Skallaruman isn't real, he can't hurt you"
Skallaruman:
Skallaruman the white, the most powerful of the Istari
What the hell you're so right! I knew he looked familiar lol
The eyes of thousands of weeboos lit up with wonder and determination.
I'm inspired to become more powerful after seeing this video
and then got owned by school bully using the most basic of techniques.
Do you even know the definition of weeaboo?
And the sword-experts trembled nervously.
Weeebooweeeboooweeeebooo
"Spinning atacks are stupid", that's what people that never got a spinning backfist to the face would say
More corectly spining atacks are situational and have to be really fast. Using spinning atacks with greatswords and some pole arms is good because of the wide range. With your fists and shorter weapons they are useful as a counter atack, but try to get fancy and spin with a sword like in the movies and you will get stabbed in the back.
Your body can tank a punch and kick, not a sword slash or thrust
It usually works because people are afraid to get in and get hit
With fast speed and continuous movement sure just look at any martial art using kicks such as BJJ & Taekwondo, but in a street brawl with limited space and unknown factors & assailants nah these things work in a controlled space because exposure doesn't mean death it means competitive loss
I’ll bite. Eaten a few... spinning attacks are insanely situational and hard to perform well...
elbows are the most useful ones I can think of, since you can track your opponent fairly easily (still very, very niche). Backfists are pretty weak, compared to a solid, conventional punch - in my experience.
Thank you very much for doing your due diligence and putting the link to the original video in your description I wish more people would do this
The reason why he can pose at the end is pretty simple. That move basically ended a “round.” Had that been in a real fight, blue would have his entrails scattered across the floor, and good sportsmanship dictates that one should should treat the competition as such. Thus, blue is “dead” in that bout of combat, and both fighters reset for the next mock battle.
And in real life blue cuts red in the head/neck right before he dies and both combatants lose their lives.
In a mock battle though, red takes the W.
@@choronzon4828
A: With what muscle strength? Do you even realize just how badly your body betrays you when you suffer life threatening injuries? The cuts (as well as system shock) from blows like that would have left Blue with so little strength in his abdomen and arms that he wouldn't have even been able to raise the sword above his waistline, much less bring it down on Red with enough force to punish him for being off balance and out of position.
B: You miss the point of what I was saying. People always b*tch and whine about people posing is competition and site realism, but forget that being ABLE to punish your opponents for the posing, not to mention the reset to fight the same opponent now knowing what they can do, is JUST as unrealistic.
@@zacharyclapp1072 it wasn’t the after blow punish. Blue landed a hit to the head/neck near the middle of the engagement.
@@zacharyclapp1072 You do realize that adrenaline is a mind-blowingly powerful hormone? Unless you destroy the structural integrity of the body itself, there is no guarantee that a fatal blow will stop an assailant. Many people have died to "dead men walking". You can receive wounds that are so horrendous you have minutes to live and still kill someone before you collapse. There are numerous examples of this just in modern combat... of soldiers being hit by a dozen rounds or more but continuing to fight until their body literally collapses. Many soldiers don't even realize they have been shot because the adrenaline in battle is so intense that pain is not felt. Unless those sword blows instantly kill him or destroy his spine so that he can't physically stand, there is no guarantee that he can't and won't swing again.
@@oddeyeus2365 Do you realize that adrenaline is not a sure thing? If you shut you opponent down before the hormone has a chance to circulate through their body, it adrenaline doesn't really matter. Adrenaline CAN be great, but it isn't even certain to make a difference. If your body has sustained enough damage, it will start trying to preserve itself by shutting down unnecessary body parts, and against a hooked weapon, especially a hooked blade, shock will set in way before adrenaline has a chance to do its job.
Now, momentum can be great for dealing lethal damage after already taking a hit. If someone knocks my weapon to the side, and guts me, I won't have any momentum to keep the fight going. If I am mid swing and someone stabs me through the stomach, I don't just stop mid swing. It would actually take more work to stop the attack then to continue it. Little adrenaline is needed to continue the assult.
The main thing that other people aren't talking about is the difference in weapons. The sword user was using what looked like a two handed rapier, and was using it as such. Attack with the point of the blade more than edge. That kind of weapon is great for piercing rib cages and attacking soft spots between bones. It is a great weapon IF you can get through the opponents defenses. Now the hooked blades were great at preventing any form of jab or coordinated slash, meaning even when hits landed, they would mostly have been shallow wounds. A sharp point sliding across a neck is devastating, but across the ribs or thicker flesh such as that of the stomach, it really doesn't do more than just make your target bleed.
Lastly, even if he could land a fatal blow and had enough adrenaline to survive the blow long enough to strike his opponent, it still wouldn't work for simply one reason. Psychology. The hooked swords were great at throwing the sword user out of form and for controlling the sword itself. When you are in a fight where your opponent is controlling your movements more that you do, you loose most sense of control.
Being overwhelmed by an opponent and having no sense of control is a very intimidating thing, meaning you are more focused on defense than you are striking (being as that was the sword users fighting style anyway, it just reinforces that mindset). This means that when you are already focused around blocking and evading, you will most likely miss most chances to strike your opponent because you are already in the mindset of flee and defend. He would have been two disoriented to attack especially if those wounds were real.
PS. Clearly forms of punching, kicking, and other non weapon attacks are not allowed in this competition. After doing the first spinning attack, he had a low posture, arms pointed away, shoulder facing the enemy, legs in a great position for forward propulsion, he could have easily tackled his already disoriented opponent further disorienting them, and giving themselves a chance to get back upright and defending.
The reason moves like this weren't used in historical combat isn't necessarily that they weren't viable, just that they weren't necessary because style meters hadn't been invented yet.
and they weren't viable most of the time
There's a channel named Ranton, guy's literally spent 3 years training at the shaolin temple, he and his wife could give some insight on the shuang gao (hook swords). I would LOVE to see some videos featuring him. Maybe bring Swordsage a few more times?
Ohhh, that would've been so cool!!
Ranton? You mean daddy?
Was it all just physical training? Did they do any meditative stuff?
I remember a monk being able to maintain his body heat in a literal icebath, similar to the russian Ice Man, who was _born_ with the ability to do the same, even in arctic waters. I'd be very interested in hearing what someone who's actually _learned_ from them has to say about it.
@@magne7771 there are monks and Warrior monks. Monks train kung fu just to stay fit for hours of seated meditation. Warrior monks rarelly ever meditate, during training there's no spiritual aspect, just yelling and beating. Ranton reacted to a BBC documentary about the Shaolin Temple, he recognized several monks
I thought you said swordsausage
This weapon was made to be used by an unarmored and agile combatant, and it's pretty cool that we're seeing some of it here.
I love how Hooksword are so painfully underrated because the moments right this make them shine
The same hookswords in shadow fight?
Seems to be good for duels
Since when is hooksword underrated? It's literally the most iconic Chinese weapon lmao.
Cause it is a useless weapon ? any dual wielding is worthless in any combat. As a simple rule, weapons for killing have very simple design.
The hook swords are designed for disabling your opponent's weapon and giving you control of the fight. Far from useless when you can hook your weapon into their arm and take away their weapon. Yes a shield is better and preferred, but having two weapons can also let you block more effectively than with a single weapon while giving you an option advantage.
Just like in MMA nobody thought it’d ever be practical to throw a spinning wheel kick or spinning back fist/hammer fist. But give it time and athleticism will always show you that things you thought improbable are viable options.
Not only that, but sometimes you end up in a situation that's unideal. Say you go for a heavy chop, and miss. You *could* beat a hasty retreat to recover, or you can continue your momentum, and spin.
Is it still stupid? Probably.
Could it work? Maybe!
Start at the basics, and then you go from there!
I grew up watching ur videos nice to see u still around
When the guy was in that"Chinese" posey he could still dodge that afterblow by rolling to the right. Simply continuing the movement.
Is a real sword fight, he didnt have time to do that
Couldn’t he just be hit while rolling? Just because he rolled doesn’t mean the dude has to miss
He could have put the blades on guard from that crouch if he had wanted to instead of posing. Maybe there's something in the rules of this competition where they have to stop after an exchange.
In a vertical strike yeah he can just roll , in the event of a horizontal one he can just roll to his back and then bring the low sword up. He's not really that exposed honestly he's mostly protected by the awkward position itself because it actually makes him pretty hard to effectively attack too
@@haydenetrom This is the only valid response here 😂. You're right.
Red: *does spin move
Blue: Wait, that's illegal!
Suck it Blue Team.
The hook sword is known as a Crest Blade - or Moon-crescent Blade to some other sources - in Chinese. That’s probably why it translated horribly to Crest Chrome. They’re also more traditionally associated with more flamboyant moves that requires a light and agile wielder iirc.
In real life if someone pulls this off on you, you better just go down out of respect and honour at that point
Yea, but if you're both Sword nuts/ HEMA nerds/ Historical weapons geek, you'd be like: "Duuuude! That was awesome!" High five, try to analyze the whole thing, review the video and post it on youtube... or something.
In real life the guy in red would be dead after the first spin, and he'd also be dead after the second spin. The reason why people didn't do this historically was because they wanted to stay alive past the fight. It looks cool though.
@@Torsteen-p3d Yup. But that's also a point many people forget when "trash talking" techniques. The context. Not everything is made to be efficient in a life or death fight. If you have rules and the rules make your "stupid" technics work, are they still stupid?
Yes I wouldn't want to use this in a real fight. But in a competition where rules are no after blows... TRY AND STOP ME! xD
@@anferrr Its scored as unarmored and red took a blade under the arm across the ribs right under the shoulder it's not effective.
@@seanchannie5822 Ooh ok, well that would be an issue😂
Sword Sage would be a great addition to this analysis btw
I was just about to comment this.
This is right up his alley.
@@maleek7321 ikr.... Also its been a while since their last colab...
Ain;t gonna lie, that was a straight up beautiful move.