How to Tell if Someone Knows Swordsmanship? (Reply to Combat Outlook)
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- Опубліковано 1 чер 2024
- This is a discussion about different ways to approach and interpret armed martial arts, and the question of how to judge or estimate someone's skill with a sword. I tend to think we shouldn't take ourselves too serious, considering that we discuss and practice with obsolete weapons that nobody is using in life or death situations anymore.
However, we can still try to give the martial art its due respect in trying to reconstruct it. And if it has a lineage we should be aware that in its current form it might not be as old as we think, and it might have gone through significant changes over time. Here is a more in-depth discussion about that topic:
• Who're You Calling an ...
Another question I'm addressing here is how effective are Larp swords for training, and what are the problems or limitations?
The video I'm responding to:
• No BS in Real Swordsma...
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"The world's best swordsman doesn't fear the world's second best swordman; he fears the worst swordsman because he doesn't know what the idiot is going to do." Several documented duels ended that way...
The comment I was looking for especially if the worst swordsman feels like he has nothing to lose.
Yep when I fencing with someone who I know he is good on LARP, where is stabbing and head strikes is forbidden i even keep glasses on face. With every newbie or unkwnown person i change glasses for steel helmet.
there's a saying that goes something like "when against a scrub, think like a scrub"
Then he gets drubbed by a farmer with a stick. ;)
@@Klaaism think, not act
First thing I learned about handling a sword: be mindful of the ceiling.
Second thing I learned: Be. Mindful. Of. The. Ceiling!
Third thing I learned: HOLY SHIT I FORGOT THERE WAS A LIGHTBULB THERE
We killed two ceiling lamps while training at home because of the lockdowns... so I hear you XD
we have never been in a real swordfight to death, yet we killed so many lightbulbs we gonna certainly all got to hell.
for my part, i made a specialty of shooting lamps in my bedroom at midnight by fooling around with a sword, or bumping furnitures with the scabbard of a katana trying to draw as fast as possible, and make a racket that must be heard throughout the neighborhood...
Me, a tall person: man, never thought I'd stab the ceiling with a dagger...
You should have learned to practice in a gym, where ceiling cannot be an issue... If ceiling was an issue, I guess you had other issues with that place.
Rules of sword safety:
1- treat every blade as if its thoroughly sharpened
2- never draw your sword at anything you don't intend to slice
3- keep your pommel safely on the hilt unless you intend to kill
4- know your target and was lies behind it before you throw your pommel
Verily
@farorin How do avoid the splash damage? Whenever I throw my pommel the shockwave destroys anything nearby.
These sound eerily similar to another set of safety rules concerning a certain weapon of more modern day design, and in a setting one might call... boot camp.
1. Treat all weapons as if they are fully loaded.
2. Horseplay is not tolerated.
3. Do not point the muzzle at anything you do not intend to kill, harm or damage.
4. Handle the weapon only when instructed to do so.
5. Keep your finger of the trigger until your weapon is on target.
6. Do not get ahead of instructions or anticipate commands.
7. If you do not understand an instruction or procedure ask questions.
Coincidence? idk, you tell me, I just found it very oddly similar XD.
Rule of sword safety.
1. Treat it as a badass sharp as hell piece of 9260 spring steel made to cut shit.
the first rule of sword safety is to have fun
The problem with definitives like this is that there's always gonna be exceptions. The second you say "You're not a swordsman if you do thing X" is exactly when you'll meet a master who does thing X. People are people. Even martial artists.
Can't wait for that reverse grip mace master who loves to throw kicks.
@@fluffywise686 ngl that does sound sick
Yes, especially considering that a lot of "don't do this" rules are intended to help beginners and intermediates learn. At a certain skill level you know how to do things effectively that beginners wouldn't get away with, and then you can bend the rules here and there.
@@Skallagrim I think that holds true for all sorts of skillsets. I know there are plenty of video games where that's held true. I know several jobs I've had where I've trained people "you might see people doing this, but you're just starting off, just do it like it says in the manual". Once someone has internalized the foundations of a particular skill, they no longer have to consciously focus on executing the task, and now understand why things are done a certain way. You end up with "kids" who try to mimic professionals, who might look cool, but in the end break both of their arms because they never learned the basics of how to actually do it that way successfully.
So you're saying exceptions don't prove rules wrong? You have sense. The vast majority of humanity seems to have forgotten this.
Skall hasn't been in a swordfight to the death before? THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING!
He didn't need to swing a sword cuz he ended them rightly
No but he did bicycle joust a car a few years ago by accident.
I was in a sword fight to the death i died I know my fighting is relay bad. lol
@@PaxofPI lol too soon man.
Or, he knows better than to just admit it.
"The best techniques are passed on by the survivors." - Gaiden Shinji
Amazing character in the Elder Scrolls
Damn it, now all I can see is the loading screen for the arena.
@@SaltineChips you are super welcome
@@SaltineChips you are super welcome
@@r.b.rozier9692 "Good people, we have a winner! All hail the combatant from the Blue Team! Victor from the Blue Team, leave the Arena now and rest! You've earned it!"
You mentioned how generally one would simply pull their leg back to defend a leg attack, but in MMA (which is what I train) you defend a leg attack by lifting your leg and blocking with the knee/shin, we call that checking, which made me realize from pure habit if someone ever swung a blade at my leg my dumbass would probably try to check it
Well, technically you could if you got the angle right.
So you need greaves. :D
bro, check his zweihander, he’s going to hit your chest
You could if you wore armor!
I think people so often forget that many of these "old books" were written by people who relied on these techniques to stay alive.
EDIT: As pointed out in the below comment, many of these techniques were relevant to specific scenarios like duels or even sparring, and obviously being books were only accessible to a few. So saying "relied on these techniques to stay alive" is strong wording and not accurate.
It's more accurate to say "the "old books" were written by people who actually used these techniques, both in real combat and in duels of a quite possibly competitive nature".
And you can definitely see manuscripts with less than practical weapons or techniques.
Someone call the police the baboons are playing with swords again
Debatable. Those books definitely were not relied on in actual warfare. Since they are... books. Which were not widely accessable, and most of population was illiterate anyway. So probably it is mostly for noblemen and for dueling. And duels were conducted with certain rules, so i think saying "relied to stay alive" a bit too strong of wording.
@@SwordWieldingDuck Well for sure, but I think it's very unfair to discount them entirely (which you aren't doing of course, but some people do).
And I should have added that a lot of them are relevant for sparring a dueling, very different environments to a battlefield or a life or death fight.
So I'll admit my wording is a bit too strong.
You didn't need to be a qualified warrior to draw pictures.
@@SwordWieldingDuck but then again, for art which have "live master" and taught with "live tradition", those live master may also include people that:
A. Fight with less skilled opponent
B. Fight with less number of opponent
C. Not really push their technique to the point of failure.
Maybe those dueling books are made to teach dueling only to upper crust society back in the day, but i think dueling stake are also high because it is often about honour, and they most likely face another noblemen with similar access to such skill.
At least thats my take on it.
"6 years is a long time ago" - I have videos I recorded like, 2 years ago that I already need to redo cos they're just not good enough. 6 years without any changes in your viewpoint or video standards would indicate 6 years without improvement. Definitely know the feel when it comes to cringing at your own old footage
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Hold on, your that guy from reddit. Earned yourself another subscriber :D
@@AxxLAfriku are you lost?
@@sd1m3 he never replied to you. There goes your serotonin that someone internet famous would pay you any attention
I used to LARP when I was a teenager, and one of the guys there was taking actual sword combat lessons. I think he was also in college for something related to weapons, but it's been like 10 years I don't remember now. Anyways, he could EASILY take down three of us on his own, simply due to how fast he was with a LARP sword in comparison to us. I remember our spacing was awful, so most of the time he would just thrust into us and get us that way. Regardless, I still have very fond memories. We used to do rules where if you got hit on a limb, you just lost that limb but could keep fighting until you were dead. Nothing better than someone swinging their sword at you, hopping on one foot, swinging their two hander with one arm because that's all they have left. Or when you cut off two legs, and the person was stuck on their knees or butt hoping people came near them. Lmfao.
I miss LARPing with those rules. The LARP I played until about 8 years ago had long since transition to 'hit points'
Tis but a scratch!
"What are you gonna do, bleed on me?"
Just a flesh wound.
I remember I worked renfaire, and we did a lot of SCA style combat. I thought I was a terrible swordsman compared to everyone else who had been doing it longer than me. Then in school some of my theater friends were messing around with swords, and I took them out in seconds.
Machete fights happen in the UK one was recorded 2 weeks ago, the back foot was lifted and the grip was poor but they made up for it with enthusiasm
I feel like this could be a top comment here
Link for educational purposes
Found it just UA-cam machete fight Lancashire England it’s brutal it looks like a really personal beef and I’m glad the guy who threw his shirt off made out ok because he looked to be defending himself from a determined attacker who brought a superior weapon 😅 the guy who threw his shirt off was thrown a flimsy machete by a bystander and it looks like it broke during the fight he was really lucky he made it out on too
Yakuza are probably doing "full stakes approach fights" away from people's sight.
@@HanSolo__ no surprise.
Criminals dont abide by rules. Its in the name.
There's some terms in sports, "Practice how you play," and "Practice doesn't make perfect, it makes permanent."
Straight is not perpendicular. Diagonal is still straight. He was referring to actually bending your spine. Posture, not angle. At least that's how I understood it.
Came to post the same
I wasn't sure whether he meant that or not. In any case it's also incorrect.
Having gone thru infantry OSUT with a then-future Green Beret with a MS in sports medicine, I can confirm that's a very important distinction that applies in both deadlifting or squatting a barbell, moving a .50cal, and fighting.
Yeah, I posted the same thing before seeing your post.
6:50
"Never train alone, it only embeds your errors"
--Vesemir
A wise Witcher indeed. 🙏
I would say a second rule would be to never train only against the same opponents.
Third rule: Never only train with/against the same weapons.
@@MonkeyJedi99 I think the second rule is to carry two swords:
“One of silver for creatures that roam the wild. One of steel for humans in their cities of stone. They’re both for monsters.”
-Kaed
@@galacticbob1 Both for monsters indeed.
But what if I have no one to train with?
I've been fighting with LARP swords with my best friends for over a decade, yet we've always acknowledged what we do is silly and mostly just for fun! We have varying levels of skill amongst us, but it is skill at fighting with LARP swords. We've each taken at least one HEMA or other weapon-based martial arts class, and we really looked up to our instructors. After we learned some of the actual reconstructed martial arts we began incorporating proper footwork and form where we could (some of us more than others). A few of us try to hold respect for martial arts that are barely applicable to our situation and we lose often to people more used to waving wildly with their boffer weapons, which can be frustrating but contributes to the diversity of our groups "fighting styles".
I can tell when someone knows how to fight from LARPing, and I can praise people's general reflexes but I'm not sure all of us are practicing sword fighting. Or any of us for that matter! I think the only ways for my friends and I to judge someone's knowledge of swordsmanship is an intellectual one. As in, discussing our research or classes we've taken. It mostly ends up being speculation, which I still think LARPers have a right to! It's not exactly accurate to say "my friend is a great sword fighter," it needs a big asterisk after it. My friend is a great sword fighter relative to our years of LARPing experience. Anyway, I agree with you. Loved the video, keep it up Skall!
Fighting with larp, nylon or steel swords all set the context of how and what is possible. I've done alot of european larp fighting with sword&buckler. Some techniques of the manuscripts translate well and others not so well. Same probably applies to nylon or steel swords. Heck might as well apply to stick fighting too.
It must however be considered what the context is and what limitations are given when using different "platforms". Do the blades bind? Do they flex? Differences in mass distribution? What about rule set for allowed hits and techniques?
I've seen plenty of viking fighting with steel swords where they only gently tap the opponent. It could almost be argued that their system is less "swordmanship" than larping since they do dress up viking tag using a metallic stick with a handle.
The system and the context must be considered if one is to discuss and compare different styles.
@@ordolupus context?
Ahh a fellow Matt Easton Scholar I see
Boffers are wildly different from swords but due to cultural differences in the way they're used boffer/LARP "fighters" tend to become more experienced than HEMA practitioners at dealing with multiple opponents and team fighting scenarios. The more serious players are probably doing a lot more work with poles than HEMA practitioners, too.
It's easier to compare skill with firearms. Can you hit a target? How accurately, from what range, and how quickly? There's no equivalent test for swordsmanship, unless you count bamboo cutting - which is more a test of a single strike than swordsmanship in general.
I like LARP, and have a bunch of friends that do it (I don't other than on special occasions), and they don't do HEMA or anything. Everyone acknowledges that LARP is a game. It's always super fun and I love the story elements the different communities have and everything. But everyone knows it's not the same thing.
I'm actually surprised how gentle skal was with this, these guys seem like they have no experience in actual swordsmanship.
I think that's one of his best traits honestly; not being a condescending a-hole to people over-estimating their abilities online. Harder to encourage people to improve when you only ever shit on them!
He agreed with them up until the part where they replied to an a-hole (maybe a hema simp fanboy, maybe not) dissing hema in the process. It wasn't called for and he addresses that. They just need to up there practice equipment game.
🤣 The Canadian has overtaken his inner Viking.
According to the way how guy in blue moves, he certainly has a natural talent. I think you'd be quite surprised if you try to fence with him with any kind of weapon.
I feel like Skal is trying to teach a certain part of a certain community not to go 0-100 on everything they disagree with every time, and imo it's a worthy effort.
Since YOURE being so nice, I'm gonna say it.
These guys aren't good....but at least they're not like those guys who fight unarmored with sharp swords in the woods ._.
Very fair point. They're at least not putting anyone in danger of anything other than misjudging their own skills.
I will say that Skall has a good point about fencing masks. Putting on some well made masks both help reduce the risk of getting an eye poked while also making the head a valid target (which these guys are deliberately avoiding for safety reasons).
But yeah, I've definitely seen worse, like way waaaay worse.
@@webbowser8834 I also agree with the fencing masks, and not just to add the head as a target. Accidents do happen, people can easily get hit in the head. When I used to do LARP, I saw plenty of headshots, and received plenty myself. One time, I got stabbed in the mouth, and the core of the weapon went straight through the foam and split my lip wide open, I mean a good half inch or cm laceration down the center of my bottom lip. I mean, we didn't maintain the weapons as well as we should have, and something even relatively minor like this is still on the rare side, but it'd be pretty damn hard to make an argument on why protecting yourself is ever a bad idea here.
Hey it’s fun fuck off
@@ethangarland5737 lol they can have as much fun as they want, more power to them! Just don't pretend fun translates into knowledge :D
When lineage is brought up, its usually East vs West argument in my personal experience. Whether kendo, kali, or kung fu the argument is made that their lineage of masters has gone unchanged for centuries, which isnt the case at all. Usually I show them Lumiere: Escrime au sabre japonais from 1897 and they watch men, probably either former samurai themselves or the descendants of samurai, sparring and it looks completely different from kendo as we might recognize it today. And thats just 130 years difference. Imagine what it looked like 400 years ago. 500 years ago. The argument that studying from a book makes HEMA invalid is kinda foolish. After all, theyre playing a 500 year old game of martial arts telephone vs reading what the masters actually wrote down themselves. Just a thought, hope no one takes offense.
If I'm not mistaken kendo isn't really a martial art, it's more like a sport akin to fencing.
Forgive me, maybe I should gave said Kenjutsu or another term that classifies Japanese swordsmanship as a defensive art. But, many practioners of Kendo that ive met trace their style back to various schools with lineages. The Yagyu-Shinkage-ryu made famous by Munenori and Mitsuyoshi "Jubei" Yagyu, Niten-Ichi-ryu the style developed Miyamoto Musashi, and Itto-ryu founded by Itto Ittosai whose style along with the Yagyu-Shinkage style were the official styles of the Tokugawa Shogunate. But, yeah Kendo has become a sport over time rather than a defensive martial art. Most sword schools arent these day anyways.
Pretty much any martial art or sport or other competition that's practiced with rules will end up conforming to the limits of those rules without regard for original purpose. People are just naturally going to be drawn to the most efficient style you can have under that specific rule set. For example, if you're not allowed to hit the head, then all guards will ignore defending the head. If there's no force required for a hit, then people will tap as fast as they can. Then there's the whole issue with double hits...
No, no. You're right.
Agreed
I sparred with some LARPers at a convention a few years ago. I could tell none of them had ever used a full weight weapon. They hopped and danced and flailed around me. I won easily against all of them. They were shocked, they had thought that HEMA and the other historical styles wouldn't work "in the real world".
Amazing! I literally watch HEMA lose wherever I look on the internet
Were they using weapons of proper weight against you?
Did everyone clap afterward?
@@Fish2049 where?
@@marekverescak2493 Literally everywhere!! Whenever I look for “HEMA VS Certain Style” the vids usually showcase awful HEMA fighters, with a few exceptions.
Well, actually... My brother-in-law had to fend off a burglar, and since there were a collection of swords in that apartment, both of them got hold of weapons and fought for a bit before the burglar fled. It resulted in some minor cuts, but it could easily have lead to a casualty.
Home defense stories never fail to surprise me.
Yep there's always a story
Definitely happend
It sounds like a comedy skit, but I can imagine how that played out.
“You’re the worst burglar I’ve never heard of!”
“But you haven’t heard of me.”
Back when I did olympic fencing, my fencing school had historical manuals. While individual techniques might not apply directly, general principals generally did and was good/interesting to know- one cant work out 12 hours a day. The argument that you shouldnt read old books is inane. (also their footwork is terrible)
I just left a wall of text comment about different aspects of the discussion before I had to add at the end...some of Combat Outlooks videos demonstrate some extremely bad form and techniques. He says he doesn't respect people learning from the manuals, and it shows, both in his bad footwork and a lot of wild, flashy, unnecessary movements while sparring.
And he left out the most important part of understanding whether or not someone knows what they are talking about with edged weapons - how they move. Learning good footwork and practicing it to the point where it is unconscious, shows through outside the salle.
I had quite fun in fencing longsword against olympic fencers with their respective weapons.
Regarding the footwork: many sources do not delve deeply into the footwork, apart from which foot is in front and which is at the back at a certain technique. My primary source, 44A8 / Liechtenauer is especially scarce here.
But the thing is, mostly people started with wrestling back in the 15th century in the germanic regions. You had wrestling matches in front of the church on sundays like you have football matches today. So, you can assume that lots of the footwork is derived from wrestling, especially given the fact that you can move around freely and are not limited by a planche.
Later sources have more distinct footwork, when rapiers are coming into play, this can look quite differently. (Also, we don't talk about I.33 footwork ;) )
@@Warrior_Culture Watching him dramatically posing before each attack, he just came across like the 'instruction manual' he studied was anime and manga. Was expecting him to call out the name of his attacks as he made them.
@J C I used to be a sabre fencer when I was young, then took a HEMA sabre class and it was very transferrable/easy 90% of the guards and cuts are the same, though they used the 7 and 8 parries alot more, and everything is heavier/bulkier. Longsword and the more 1400s hema less so as far as bladework. But principles of distance and timing, balance, etc are fairly universal.
I've been in discussion with the guys from Combat Outlook before, it's fun to see Skall now repeating some of the things I have argued as well. Also, on a sidenote, I do think the people from Combat Outlook live in an echo chamber; from my experience they do feel like they know more than others, and are always aiming to pretend to be the wise men. So don't do what I do and start a discussion with them, it's futile, and I should've realized that back then, but oh well.
Beautiful thing about HEMA. It has a very "Put up or shut up/Put your money where your mouth is" mentality. If you think you're right, and your way is better and we're all wrong, PROVE IT. Gear up and lets go, show me exactly why you're superior to me with steel. Bet none of these larpers are gonna be willing to gear up and fight with steel.
@@ChueyiCha relevant side note I have LARPed with some of the best swordsmen in the US lol. It is not a mutually exclusive hobby, it nice to be able to fight without gear on, even if you lose the binds. Steel fighting is slower than a lot of LARP fighting at that, so it is interesting means to add to your reaction time if you seek out the better boffer fighters out there. Like I ran up against one of the national level boffer competitors and I learned to parry way faster as a result. We then got into a 15-minute match, died, and got beers afterward lol. Half the people I LARP with are HEMA instructors.
Never wrestle with a pig ... yada yada
They probably do know more than the average Joe.
@@kylemendoza8860 I think thed be surprised as to how short and heavy a real sword is. This would actually make you worse swordsman. Might make you a little better with Smallsword or rapier
I once had a friendly duel with a Larp enthusiast, I had a little fencing experience. Even though I’m no expert I could tell very quickly that his confidence in his skill was greater than his swordsmanship.
When my SCA fencing group branched out into larping, the thing that took me by surprise is that larp swords _don't_ seem to stick in the bind as expected. Solid parries that worked with historical rapier simply failed. The swords slide or trampoline away from each other on contact. I think this is part of the reason why larpers seem to engage from out-of-measure so often: the parry game simply is not there, and the only control you can actually exert comes from _batting_ attacks out of the way and counting on that exaggerated recoil to create your openings.
Also I got salty that they don't accept draw or push cuts lol Between that, and taking the head angle away as a viable target, there's so many ways in which the threat of a weapon doesn't have to be respected tactically. This is similar to collegiate fencing's 'right of way' rule, encouraging attacks that would realistically be suicide.
This is also sadly the case with my country's sport. I think this is also what happened that discouraged arnisadors from parrying and rely more on risky attacks considering the use of padded weapons
I hope to prevent this by constant and consistent drilling and study of sword sparring sessions (sabres in particular) with my goal to atleast encourage some form of control and a slight change to the rules to have people really treat the weapons like swords.
I ran into the same situation with LRP'ers with me in the SCA...so I just switched targeting for awhile...started targeting the meaty part of the shoulders and legs. A few score nasty bruises later and the LRP'ers got the message that simulating real sword combat and taking clean blows beats walking with a limp for 48 hours or so every time. And ended up dragging a bunch of 'em into the SCA too to learn to fight heavy. I call that a win. (please do remember that SCA heavy combat is full speed, full force.)
I agree with the straight back statement. Despite the leaning, their back is still straight (aka not bent)
Yeah, I think the video was just saying not to round your back. Leaning would be fine, so long as your back is straight.
@@darkwingeagle there's a lot of lateral back bending in many sword martial arts.
No forward curling as far as I know, true.
Yeah, straight hip is different to straight spine.
I appreciate the way you always respect the people you discuss/disagree with, and address their arguments rather than attacking the people themselves. Your civil and articulate presentation is much more informative and enjoyable than people who trash talk.
Living lineage means way less than stress-testing, honestly. MMA proved that to a great degree, and some people still resent that lesson.
“Lineages” are to a degree just political hierarchies ripe for exploitation by people who “put in the time”- whether or not that’s ever been thoroughly put to the test.
I remember some of the ideas that came out of students at my old CMA school, which had a very traceable “strong” lineage, which were hugely misguided in some ways.
lol, I'd take a good fighter who knows distance and timing over someone who has been in a mcdojo for 10 years doing theory and form practice but has never sparred.
@@ChueyiCha lol Exactly. I remember getting lit up by a normal looking 45 year old dude who was relatively new to the school, because he had rudimentary boxing experience and wasn’t concerned about employing techniques he’d learned in that school specifically/ trying to incorporate moves from forms.
Living lineage in bullshido (thr cma in your example) is still bullshido. Stress-tested "I'm an animal, bro, I black out and go crazy" or half-assed boxing or what have you that has won fights is still less than a real art (definition: a refined skill). Benefitting from living lineages is a huge benefit in attempting to learn or reconstruct an art that we know very little or nothing about.
@@45calibermedic a) I didn’t say that lineage has no meaning at all.
B) I wasn’t anywhere in my comment legitimizing the “bullshido” Kung Fu school I went to.
C) Of course the techniques used by the winner of a fight between unskilled/undertrained opponents are likely not worthy of transmission; but I suspect you know that’s not what I was saying...
Where is the “I black out bro” stuff coming from? I never mentioned anything approaching that.
Though, if someone with less experience in one martial art (or none at all) can routinely beat intermediate/advanced practitioners of another art on fair-terms, something’s gotta be examined there.
A “refined skill” in martial art that doesn’t do what it advertises is ritual dance/meditation or glorified LARP.
Lastly, what do you mean “Living Lineages are of benefit in learning arts we know little or nothing about”? ... I can see *some* merit in informing the running of a school, etc.; but if they are different arts, I’d think it’d be important to actually not let the existing art tinge too much of the one being reconstructed, no?
I've heard the "I black out bro" thing from so many idiots who had no idea what they were doing... that's called getting knocked out dude XD
They also failed to realize that the longer HEMA exists, the more it evolves through trial and error and training. Plus HEMA has been at least in part informed by Japanese swordsmanship which *does* have unbroken lineages from Samurai. Not saying HEMA is westernized Kendo but eastern martial arts gave HEMA a jumping point, it wasn't just nerds reading books.
To be honest, if you compare stances in Japanese swordsmanship to the stances in HEMA, they're very similar. Because who woulda thunk, throwing a proper cut by engaging all the proper muscles can be done in very few varied ways.
it's ignorant so say one of the two inspired one of the two, none of the two inspired each other, and both of the two inspired each other. there is no definition of inspiring a combat technique
@@BelieverOfChrist2 If you were replying to me, all I was saying was that some modern HEMA practitioners looked to Samurai arts for help beginning to interpret HEMA manuals, I do know that medieval european and japanese martial arts evolved independently of each other though.
@@BelieverOfChrist2 To Gryphon's point, it's not even that they actively did it on purpose sometimes. There are a lot of people who transitioned into HEMA who were already doing things like Kenjutsu, Silat, what have you. They would have instinctively moved a certain way bio-mechanically that had been drilled into them. If HEMA is truly progressing and induction based vs deduction based from manuals/forms, the live elements from other arts would have bled in by default without either practitioner noticing their focus on center-lines, riposting, moving off line etc. Even a boxer who picks up a weapon would have footwork that lends to distance management that isn't by default weapons oriented. A lot can be incorporated without being accounted for (hence the dubiousness of the manuals in the first place without experimentation).
So, central Asian, middle Eastern peoples just haphazardly poked at each other with random pointy objects? Wheels are round for a very good reason, they work efficiently. The entire planet gets this. If someone didn't die in an encounter with a 'different' practitioner, they damn well learned from it. Japan is really a bad example due to its isolationist policies.
In my classes, I teach there are two types of competitive “sword games” to improve
In one game, you have 2 footwork squares next to each other and you practice strikes, and parries. Goal is to get the other person off balance.
In the other, I have them redo an ancient dispute duel, where the goal was a single strike to the top of the head from the bind. I use sharp simulators for this, but it teaches intuitively how to manipulate through the bind while keeping themselves safe
Did I saw the young man in blue jump during the axe-fight and lifting his foot? Did he do exactly what he told others not to do? Well ... I think he did. ^^
Ok, in fairness to the man, full speed sparring is a completely different beast from simply practicing forms. When doing full speed sparring, mistakes WILL happen and missteps WILL be taken. These mistakes by themselves do not make the man wrong, especially in full speed sparring against a resisting opponent (and criticize their technique all you want, they aren't trying to pass off demonstrations against non-resisting opponents as legit).
In short, I see an earnest group who has legitimate interest in martial arts but are in need of an ego check. As far as college groups go, you can do much worse.
Here in Mexico (specifically in the South) Machete fights happen all the time, but people obviously don't use any techniques, they just swing and try to avoid cuts as fast as they can until one of them is dead.
I do know a few people that have been in this situation, and the only thing they can tell me is "Pues nada más lo machetié" ('Well I just macheteied him' would be a literal translation). No actual techniques, but maybe there's some skill there
What happens when citizens arent allowed to own a gun. Criminals get whatever weapon they like, and I'd rather defend myself from a person with a blade with a gun
@@Sheridantank People here own a lot of guns. It's just that a machete is consider a tool in a lot of states and it doesn't draw nearly as much attention
@@addictedtochocolate920
Criminals have guns, not a lot of citizens do. Aa far as I know, they're incredibly restricted for citizens. Getting in a blade vs blade is the last thing anyone should want.
@@Sheridantank i own a gun. My uncle owns a gun. My grandfather owns a gun.
We can't relay on the law. In fact, here in Mexico policeman are criminals most of the time, and they will take advantage of any situation to get some extra money from you, but they're also cowards when it comes to protecting citizens; we're on our own, and knowing how the mafia is heavily armed, we must take countermeasures. Of course, these firearms are often illegal and we can't take them outside of our houses, but we do own them for safety.
So answering your question: Yes, they are restricted, but citizens here are not known for obeying the law, and most own a gun
@@addictedtochocolate920
As well they should, I wouldn't leave it at home because that's useless if you ever should need it.
Learing form the old manuscripts can be quiet dificult. My HEMA instructor once gave every group (4 groups in total) a side of a manuscript and every group came had outcome (the funniest was to basicly drop the polearm and punch the enemy in the face)
I got to learn an interesting distinction from swordplay to unarmed combat sports. That treatment of needing to keep the rear leg as a grounded base. A lot of unarmed techniques for generating power are based on doing fast/small hops that allow for a punch or kick to fall into an opponent. This maximizes the use of bodyweight, and when used with the right timing has minimal exposure, loss of structure, or time exposed to counter hits, etc. See Jack Dempsey's drop-step, and a lot of rear-kicks and turning kicks.
tha teep
In my admittedly limited experience with unarmed co.bat, staying firmly planted on two feet is just as important as with a sharp thing in your hands.
Important to the point that you neved actually lift your feet, rather drag your toes on the ground to be able to ground yourself at any moment.
Spinning kicks certainly exist, but they dont provide significantly more power for the time and exposure they take.
I have mostly seen them used to get around a defense or disorient, not to be effective in and of themselves.
As for generating power, it almost always comes from the hip, and upper body rotation, not any lateral movement. Its more energy efficient, quicker, and much more stable.
The laws are written by blood, many generations have been sharpening their knowledge longer than blades. Those "old books" will save your life in combat.
What? I don't think too many lifes are safed these days by sword techniques. To make it more realistic is more of a evaluating system then actually something practical.
Sure.
@@lefloidNemesis Yes, these days. However, they’re talking about the many generations throughout history. Guns are a footnote in history compared to swords, axes, knives, etc.
@@lefloidNemesis The manuals talk about footwork and bio-mechanics, those are still very crucial to modern day soldiers, as well as civilian's ability to defend themselves. So in a way, certain aspects are practical and still absolutely used.
Taking yourself a bit seriously there my dude I don't think you're ever going to have to actually fight for your life with a sword
I have a Japanese swordsmanship and FMA background. Naturally, there are exceptions to the "rules" you show here but, they're generally true in iaido and kenjutsu when dealing with long weapons. I spar occasionally with a HEMA guy and it still amazes me how similar HEMA and Japanese systems are. I had an instructor point out that the body only moves in so many ways.
im going to pretend that by FMA you mean Full Metal Alchemist because that is just so much more entertaining that anything else I can imagine it meaning.
@@gabrielandradeferraz386 It's just Filipino Martial Arts.
@@carlbecklehimer1898 those are also great I suppose
１３：４５
If you like planes so much, have you ever actually been in a real dogfight？！
HAVE YOU EVER BEEN IN A SPITFIRE MK-VC OR BF-109 G6 TO COMPARE THEIR PERFORMANCE?!?!!! NO REEEEEEEEEEEEE.
(Joke for the geniuses out there.)
@@whatamidoingwithmylife4108 I mean I played ace combat on ps2 with inverted axis controls. Gotta be about the same.. Haha
Yeah, died unfortunately
@@supersolomob422 RIP
HAVE YOU EVER BEEN FLYING A SPITFIRE FIGHTING THE GERMANS ABOVE BELGIUM REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRR
7:00-9:50 He says that when the back isn't straight, not when it isn't vertical. It can be straight with a forward lean. You talk about something called a hip hinge. When you demo it, you're bending at the hip, but your spine remains straight, which is good.
The point I think he's trying to make is about broken posture. If you bend your spine to lean, then you have issues. If you look at fighting styles that focus on clench fighting, like Muay Thai, you are fighting to gain dominance over your opponent's head so you can break their posture by bending their neck because it makes them easier to take down.
*clinch
I didn't realize which channel this was at first, but I saw their "sparring" and laughed with my buddies about a year ago. The scythe one really got me, lol.
The sparring footage on that channel pretty much tells you you can discount their opinion on whether someone knows swordsmanship. They have obviously removed themselves so far from actual weapons-based conflict because of their LARP weapons that they can't make any sort of claim to proficiency.
LARP is kind of frustrating because depending on the group, you might be dealing with poisoned lightsabers where the slightest hit on the wrist makes you lose your arm and getting tapped in the chest is a kill
Or you might be in one that's buhurt with foam and someone spin kicks you in the chest or breaks your fingers with a foam mace
@@bolieve603 those are the most fun)
I do two different systems.
One os you bleed. If hit in thr arm with no armour, you start to bleed
man its hard not to get angry at that channel, it just comes across as being run by some narcissistic super-weeb. Highly unprofessional conduct.
"Train like you fight, Fight like you train." is a quote that applies to a lot of things!
Huh, I was actually a part of this group for a few years, interesting to see it pop up here. Guess a few tidbits for some people curious.
so for one, this is a college group, so theres quite a few restrictions on what they can freely bring around on campus for safety reasons, theyve even had the cops called on them before just with their larp swords. (thankfully at this point they kinda know the group so if anything arises they just drop by and confirm it them before leaving). Another tidbit is while there are a number of regulars, this group lets pretty much any types drop in and out, so plenty of the videos youll see people ranging from quite experience in fencing or other practices to random people wanting to swing swords around. Id also say the fighting itself is kinda half the groups focus, the other half being general discussions on different types of weapons, their history of use and other general weapon discussions.
Worthless woke college nonsense.
@@Sheridantank wait whats woke about that
@@gillsejusbates6938
Schools denying access to weapons under the false guise of creating saftey. As if a person intent to harm others cares about the "no weapons" rule.
@@Sheridantank bruh
@@Sheridantank if you wanna go stab your friends with real weapons for fun go do that somewhere else not in your school
He talks about sword safety around others, but continues to point his rapier right at me at 4:48. That was very dangerous.
Imagine yourself walking with your smartphone around the corner, pointing the screen away from you, and Skall is doing this thing with the rapier. Next thing you know, he has impaled an unsuspecting pedestrian!
"in some parts of the world, machete fights can still happen"
Yes, like Birmingham, UK!
I am glad that you made a distinction between "fight" and "combat" because, actually, it was said that some criminals in some parts of Asia solve their differences by traditional means. (I once heard that some civilian bodyguards in Korea were trained in weapon martial arts, as at the time the gun restriction laws were so enforced, that even criminals usually used different means. -I have no idea if it holds true, but if anyone can disprove or provide background info for that I would be greatly grateful)
Funny enough. I know some of the guys on combat outlook. You can be skilled or a newbie or a anime lover and they will let you try. You can do anything and any type of fighting style you want. Some are more.... anime/fantasy then others but its fun to watch
Gonna do that thing where the opponent doesn't realize they've been cut in half until I sheathe my sword & then probably get stabbed because it takes them too long to realize they're dead.
@@TheLithp You know, there's a good Family Guy style cut away joke in that. Person gets slashed, other person leaves, slashed guy goes home to his wife, goes to work the next day, continues on with life events, goes to doctor for a check up, doctor tells him he's already dead, shocked face.jpg, slash cut appears, guy splits in half.
I just started HEMA, specifically longsword. I don’t have a club nearby but I have been looking at both the Joachim Meyer and lichtenhauer schools of thought and following online channels like blood and iron martial arts and a few others. Unfortunately I have no sparring partner, so mostly I have been practicing the guards, cuts and Master cuts. I like your videos, and I appreciate hearing your take on channels like the video you just looked at.
P.S. I practice with a steel weighted synthetic blade (pommel and cross guard are steel).
Training and practice can never truly be realistic. It can be paramount in preparing you for a real scenario but I agree not many sword fights happening these days. It's a martial art have fun and enjoy yourself and the art. Great video
I came all the way back to this video because my subconscious reminded about the "has no lineage" comment. I, being a practitioner of HEMA and just reading old books, would be quite interested in any old tomes Combat Outlook might suggest regarding the distinguished lineage of boffers/LARP swordlike objects...
Also, HELL YES! Way to shout out Kyle Toelle! I go to Cymbrogi School of Western Martial Arts whenever I'm able to. Love those fellas. Kyle taught me dagger, and really helped me to understand what it was about, particularly in conjunction with ringen. Dude is a hell of a communicator, and a great fighter. I'd only been in HEMA in a serious way for a month, and about a week or two with Kyle had me medaling silver in my first tournament. So stoked to see him on Skall's radar.
8:22 also in the topic of leaning what neither of them mention is that it is also very good for provoking, leaning away from the opponent in a Zorn position is an amazing way to get your opponent to attack you as it shows your weakness so broadly which is very useful especially compared to more upright postures that don't provoke as well.
19:21 actually recieved a larp longsword thrust to the eye last week. Painfull but thankfully it got okey after a cuople of minutes
Me and my brother were fighting in the house with larp swords. I was standing behind a doorway. My brother tried a cut that bounced off the door frame slipped past my guard and got me in the eye. That shit hurts
i got a wound on the eye with a fucking piece of cardboard
i wasnt able to see with 1 eye for 1 month
Use fencing masks! Or at the very least use eye protection. No amount of coolness is worth a permanent injury! I got thrusted in the eye with a wooden sword once, not fun. Luckily all I got was a bruise.
Couldn't see the typo though
I remember one of the comments arguing with those delusional idiots fighting with sharp swords that i think is the best description of hema and is relevant here
"HEMA is a real fight with fake weapons, what you're doing is a fake fight with real weapons"
I understand these guys arent fighting with sharp swords but the 2nd comment is still relevant because 2 people having a "duel" with sharp weapons is what some people would consider a real life or death fight despite the complete lack of skill or technique
Edit: Watching the clip at the end id be comfortable calling this a fake fight with fake weapons, which makes the elitism over "old books" especially odd
To defend me and the Larp community ^^ "I and my group practice HEMA, we practice duels, but also formations. We pay great attention to authenticity, especially what the (sorry, I don't know the English term for it)" play out " A weapon concerns. Especially when it comes to the weight of a weapon, we attach great importance to it. The nice thing about it is that there are LARP weapons that have a lead band incorporated to add weight. We prefer an authentic fight, especially because wildly waving one around can put yourself, and more importantly, others in danger!
First thing you learn in Kendo is to never ever EVER hold your shinai (bamboo sword) in a "drawn" position unless you intended to use it. Most reliable way to tell a master from a novice IMO.
13:00 Martial arts with living lineages, by definition, undergo significantly more changes than dead arts do, as dead arts do not change at all. Tenshinsho-den Katori Shinto Ryu, for example, did not used to have any kata that involved seiza. All of their techniques were originally standing techniques, and you can see how they were modified if you compare the sitting techniques to the standing techniques. They made changes to their arts to adapt to the Edo period of relative peace, and several of their techniques are almost essentially lost, like their kyujutsu. Unfortunately, it looks like their yawara/jujutsu are also going in that direction, at least last I heard.
The whole trouble with this mindset of 'authentic martial art' or 'how they did it in the old days,' is that how they did it in the old days is often not relevant even 20-30 years out from whatever period you select. The standing techniques became less important in a lot of koryu because of the change in lifestyle, just like swordsmanship styles adapted in Europe to changing weapons, and changing social situations. Why use a dussack like a messer, when people like Meyer have their dussack techniques designed to take advantage of both the dussack's unique design, and the civilian context in which it is likely to be used?
If you're going to learn some kind of historical martial art in a way that does it proper justice, then you need to understand in what situations these techniques would be used, and why, instead of clinging to notions of 'purity' or 'the original way it was done.' Doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't learn those original techniques, but it does mean you should appreciate them in their full depth, and understand all the whats wheres whens hows and whys of said techniques, instead of looking at them as the 'real practical killing arts' or whatever silly thing you've probably heard said about them.
The last sword fights? WWII cavalry with a saber?
More recent? Yakuza maybe?
Once you had a reliable bullet, carrying a sword became dead weight.
1970s france, although it was a duel to first blood
@@conniethesconnie Mad Jack would have LOVED to disagree with you, if he was still alive.
Skallagrim, kind sir, I have just found your channel here on UA-cam, it's incredibly Interesting. I'm absolutely happy I have as I am member of the ADHD/depersonalisation- club and you kind sir give strong foundation with understanding and place for super powered individuals to come and learn and also connect.
Your certainly soul with wisdom and experience.
I can watch your videos all day, you are the best. Thank you for your content
My epee coach, who was from Poland, always claimed that his master had been in the cavalry and had killed two cossacks in battle. Apparently he beheaded them with the forte of his sabre. How's that for lineage?
LARP swords have a completely different tempo "cost" so to say. You cover it with the discussion on mass, stopping a steel sword isn't slow, but it does take time.
I'm a big fan of you and your Skallnanigans since many years. I like the way you've "changed", even though I liked you before as well. Nowadays it seems that you "tolerate" more than in the past, meaning you don't bash people as biased anymore. You're an expert in your field but you don't brag about it. You're actually saying smart stuff about the topic itself and analyse, rather than saying "oh, you're doing it all wrong. My way is the only way" without thinking about other aspects any further. I highly respect that. Keep up the good work!
One of the best videos yet. Nicely done. I agree with everything.
I think it's worth noting that "upright" and "straight back" aren't necessarily the same thing. You can lean forward or back and keep your back straight, and this is common in most martial arts, armed or otherwise. There are a very few exceptions in unarmed combat styles but other than theatrical fighting (particularly when fighting as a non-human monster) I can't think of an example where this would be the case with a sword. So the "straight back" point I think holds up better than you're presenting it as.
On lineage - I know this will trigger many HEMA people but the lineage of swordsmanship is sport fencing. There are some schools of sport that can trace their lineage back to Sabre etc and those schools can be chained back further. Look into Holtzman's book on Italian Dueling Sabre to get an understanding of how that evolved. There are some maestreti that can trace their lineage back to Radaelli, most teach sport fencing as that is the lineage.
Europe didn't stop fighting and make schools/write books. Europe kept fighting and evolving their fighting styles.
21:20 - that was actually a good open hand slap to the rapier that would have worked...assuming he slapped the flat. Now why his opponent didn't just stab this hand...
In (austrian) german fraternities you get an pretty much unbroken lineage of historical sabre... From ~1800
Not talking about Mensur btw, but the original sabre duel. The last officially known duel was made im 1936, but unofficially, well you know.
Currently, officially the school-fraternities there learn sabre fencing, the "duels" (or Sabre-Mensur) are with some protection for the face and open torso, but the blades aren't sharp.
The sabres are heavy, it's not the olympic sabre, however some knowledge was surely lost. The teachers are (real) "fencing master" learn it for around 5 years (daily training+teaching) and learn olympic, sabre, mensur and two other fencing disciplines they like to get to know. They are organized as some kind of guild, therefore the knowledge and fencing standards are passed by word and teaching. HOWEVER: for sabre especially there are quite many historical manuals, especially after the 1800s, so I believe it wouldnt be too different from them as the weapon remains nearly the same
Yes, when I was younger I was a nationally competing sport sabre fencer; yes there are distortions at high level due to weight of the blade and speed, but alot has direct lineage to 1800s dueling sabre (and many read manuals from the 1700-1800s) And alot of the the guards, stances, cuts etc, really havent changed that much, especially at the beginner to intermediate level. The disdain from some HEMA folks towards olympic fencing is annoying, especially since they could learn a lot form it, especially in footwork/distance/timing/balance etc. There is some influence in modern footwork from russia, that is different than the french systems, but that also has a long tradition.
Except fencing is nothing like actual combat or dueling, so having a lineage doesn't seem to mean anything does it
@@Nikotheleepic Olympic fencing is pretty safely odentical to unarmoured rapier dueling to the death.
It is indeed nothing like armoured knightly combat from 1100, but the vaunted manuals are not about that, now, are they?
@@ineednochannelyoutube5384 They still run "one hit" epee competitions which are about as close as you can get to duelling. Although a hit to toe 1/25th of a second before a hit to mask would have a different victor in the duel than in the epee fight.
Tbh, I used to hate your channel, and I didn't like the way you acted. Now, I love it, even if you disagree with something, you are waay more respectful, and mindful of your words, which is something I appreciate.
I loved when I first found your channel and we talked about your dislike for the katana. You were never dismissive or combative. I can't imagine you've changed much since then.
I love your comment about footwork. You've probably seen the Japanese practitioners of kendo bouncing from their front foot to their back before a match. (I've done it myself while I was living their and was knocked on my butt the first time I tried it during a match.)
I think many traditional arts have a big problem with their lineage. Every new master wants to give it a touch of his. I noticed that in den Japanese arts (I have now 12 years of experience in Iaido) some arts tend to have lost their edge. It is hard to describe. You just notice techniques, where you can tell how they should be done, but are not any more. Often for ease of teaching or elegance or because they fit better in the style of the system. I think the books in HEMA give us an incredible advantage. These cannot be watered down over the years of master to master who never really experienced what the authors of the books did. They give an incredibly good beacon for how it should look.
I do not understand how he came to this conclusion. I mean, plenty of Martial Arts, including traditional arts in Kung Fu and especially Karate, used to do exactly what HEMA is doing now.
Chinese "" "" "" martial arts""" "" ""
@@Slouworker considering the amount of " " you're putting in, I assume you're attempting to disparage Chinese Martial Arts.
However, if you know anything about Martial Arts, you might be aware that plenty of movements within modern mixed martial arts and sports are found within Kung Fu's repertoire, and it was from Kung Fu that a lot of it has been distilled and refined.
Consider Kung Fu to be at the stage of progression of early HEMA. A collection of historical movements and ideas recreated and revived, but not yet properly contextualized.
@@1Invinc The original forms of Chinese martial arts were almost certainly very effective in what they were trying to accomplish (actual combat). But over time, as actual combat became less important, the importance instead was placed upon style, aesthetic, and the such, the martial arts became extremely ineffective in an actual fight. By the time of modern China, essentially all of the traditional martial arts had become useless in genuine combat experiences. As proven by the likes of Xu Xiaodong, a self-admitted decent and past-his-prime MMA fighter who has been destroying many self-claimed (and instituionally-supported) "masters." Secondly, what do you mean that kung fu was the foundation of HEMA? I am unknown in the origins of HEMA, but I had believed that it was created by Europeans.
@@Divinemakyr
You seem to be talking to someone else, or making irrelevant points against an imaginary opponent instead of addressing what I've actually said but I'll humour you.
1) The techniques within Kung Fu isn't the problem. It's the application and consolidation of said knowledge. For example, Tai Chi is in fact, a Grappling Art. Movements such as a single leg takedown, hip throws and clinch control can be found within the Taolu. To say that Traditional Kung Fu is useless, is the wrong mindset. Modern Arts learnt from Traditional Arts. A can opener is useful as a can opener. Don't use it as a screw driver. Also, plenty of more modern combat arts can find some core movements within Kung Fu, having isolated and incorporated them into their game. From Kung Fu's side kick and Wing Chun's oblique kick starting to really show promise (and controversy in the case of the latter), to spinning heel kicks and high kicks making come backs in MMA.
2) Xu Xiaodong has become quite the "rallying point" for people who seem to know jack shit about Kung Fu or China. "Institutionally Supported" Masters? That's not a thing. Just because they've appeared on TV doesn't make them "State Sponsored". That's like saying Steven Seagal is a Federal Recognized Martial Agent of the USA. It's utter hogwash. Xu got his ass royally destroyed by the actual state sponsored martial artists aka the Chinese Sanda team.
3) Nobody said Kung Fu was the foundation of HEMA. You're pulling talking points out of your ass and sparring with your ass projections. What I said was that traditional Kung Fu and Karate do what HEMA is doing. Looking at historical manuscripts such as the various Shaolin forms, and Karate's Bubishi, and try to reconstruct how people used to fight.
4) Finally, as Matt Easton always loves to point out. Context.
Plenty of Kung Fu was developed with different historical contexts in mind, with their weapon forms first, and the fist forms developing from the weapon forms. Plenty of Kung Fu fist movements are replications of movements that already exists within the weapon forms and it makes sense with the context that many surviving forms of Kung Fu were taught en masse to soldiers in the Imperial Armies over history, with weapons being the primary focus, and the fist movements being supplementary and convenient considering the repetition of the weapon movements over boot camp. Is traditional Kung Fu useful in a cage fight? Debatable. Is traditional Kung Fu useful for a Ming Dynasty Spearman who just lost his weapon and needs to defend himself? Definitely better than nothing.
@@1Invinc Kung Fu has definitely gathered a lot more mysticism than HEMA around itself.
Mostly because people unfamiliar with the reality of martial arts look at the performative aspect of it that appeared in the last centuries (probably in large part because of the cult like secret societies utilizing it as a recuritment tool were all too eager to crank up its supernatural overtones).
Kung Fu originall most certainly served as both a practical self defense (and training) regimen developed by monks, and as a drill form for imperial levy soldiers (Xing Yi spear form is the one Im familjar with that served this porpouse), and certainyl aspects of these practical uses are still found within the sport. However it is also true that in many incarnations of it, these grains of a "true martial art" so to speak have been mired in so much mystic nonsense and stage performance art that they are hard to identify.
"Dsitillinf" it into a useful martial art as you put yut it is certainly possible, but it is questionable weather what you are left with could actually still be called kungfu.
(As a side note, I am also not familiar of any form of grapplimg or groumd fighting technique within kung fu, however it encompasses such a wide envelope of styles undoubtedly something like that exists)
I just stumbled on this guys channel but I trust him with just how level headed he addresses things
Nice review!
I had wondered about this a while ago. Thanks!
"how they hold and respect the weapon"
Me, looking confused at the rusty piece of sword-looking iron bar that I bought as the cheepest hema sidesword I could find
I don't think this loudmouth knows what he's saying; the knowledge he's enforcing looks quite similar to many rules and techniques you see in HEMA too, and there's probably a lot of HEMA practitioners out there who could give him a run for his money. By diminishing HEMA, he's also diminishing the bases of what he's teaching. It seems to be he's either not well informed or he needs an ego check.
Edit: i just watched the axe video and i want to correct myself: most HEMA fencers would destroy him
I cant tell who you're talking about
@@bloodyhell8201 Then your comprehension skills might need some practice. He's talking about Combat Outlook, the guy in the video Skallagrim explicitly mentions of having dissed HEMA.
@@unevenelephant469 Or they had a momentary lapse in an otherwise startling career of perfect comprehension. I didn't detect malice, why get ugly?
@@unevenelephant469 What the hell is wrong with you dude. Why so angry. It was a legit question because if you don't watch the video and scroll to the comments and saw the comment you would probably think is this guy talking about Skall or Combat Outlook. It could be either one depending if you're new to the channel or have no idea what's going on because this comment could possibly be a hater of Skall and he didn't know (not saying that it is)
You got some issues. Insulting someone for asking a harmless question doesn't help this channel. Are you proud and feel all good inside to talk down to others through a computer screen? You probably felt great being an ass.
I seriously thought the original comment was directed at Skall too. I don't watch his videos a lot, and it took a while to guess who it was about. Does that make my comprehension skills crap because it isn't on a topic I would know? You know there are people who look at comments first or read and listen at the same time.
But hey, if you feel justified to be a dick on the internet to compensate for something, go ahead. Just know you're not helping this channel grow by being an ass.
@@claudiahasselbach1722 The idea that witnessing one error suggests a person has a deficiency that needs fixing is pretty foolish. The comment was at best an unneeded inflammatory statement. Maybe the problem isn't their reading comprehension, but your giving an isolated incident the same weight as a history of similar incidents. You should learn how to mitigate idiotic biases from your comments before posting, that way you don't look like a dumdum, ya dummy. What kind of dumdum doesn't get an adequate set of data before sharing their conclusion with literally most of the world? SMH.
Edited: for the insults. I figured you weren't a snowflake, so why not. You like brutal honesty, right?
also about your remarks on subtitles, i use them for every single youtube video including yours and can’t watch videos without them :) they are ABSOLUTELY useful, i can verify they are pretty useful most of the time as i’m not fully deaf.
I’m a Brazilian jiu jitsu player, and the art has changed just in the years I’ve been practicing. We also go live for five 5 minute rounds at the end of class where we try to kill each other. Anyway, great content, I always enjoy it.
A minute after upload! Meaning I *have* to make a meaningless comment about how I'm among the first to click on this video! Woo!
Are you though?
Oh most definitely, I’m 5 mins after upload. But it’s always a great day for a new skall video
ah yes we are the council of this comment section now. The first to arrive eh?
Comment section experts, a traditional martial art.
20 minutes after upload! This means I am sadly unable to make a meaningless comment about how I'm among the first to click on this video. Aww.
i love the fact that u show a very mature lvl of respect to ppl even when u r talking about things that totally contradict what u believe is right. keep up the good work Mr. u r awesome .
I love these fluid moves that you do with the blade. great vid also, keep it up :)
I've been watching your content for over 2 years now and just noticed I wasn't subbed. I though I was and I made sure I fixed that, you're always on my feed.
This is kind of like airsoft versus actual combat. Imagine if we lived in a world where no one fought with actual guns anymore and could only recreate it through airsoft. The methods and habits would be considerably different than actual combat, but there would be no way to verify that. People would act like reading old war manuals and watching training videos from WWII and such would be worthless, but there's a huge difference between playing a game or simulation and doing the real thing.
As gun owner/enthusiast safety is huge. Even growing with nerf guns safety was instilled with me and even running drills now with stand ins I practice safety
@OhioStateTexan yep and this should apply to all weapons
I agree about your points on safety. It is important to be careful in armed and unarmed martial arts.
Spot on Sir. Thank you for the good content!!!!!!!
"if they mean an actual sword fight to the death with sharp swords nobody has!"
Well jack Churchill charged a german patrol during WWII so never say never in that regard.
Oh yeah? Where is he now?!😁
@@KickyFut yeah.... I'm confused
Considering he won that fight, I think his being dead now is unimportant.
@@kyleheins Im pretty sure scal said something about how anyone 'now a days' hasn't. WW2 was 80 years ago and I'd say too much has changed to call what was in WW2 '2021 modern'
Did one of the Germans also have a sword? Because if not then it's not really a sword fight, it's just killing people with a sword. Which I'm sure does still occasionally happen.
I think that Axe Man could not swing it so easily,right? Or i am wrong?🤔
Thank you for this! It was very informative.
your videos are very relaxing !
Combat Outlook guy: "their back foot should be planted on the ground, that's how you know they're good"
Also Combat Outlook guy: 18:14
Lmao this is too good
If they pull out a gun and shoot you when you challenge them to a dual, there is at least a 20% chance they are NOT a sword expert.
Parry *this* you fucking casual
or just want to get to the nazi's and don't want to waste time on the mini boss 😂
Avid LARPer here! I don't think I've commented on any of your videos before, but I greatly enjoy them!
I'd like to speak to your eye-protection comment. I agree with you in most cases, but I want to say there may be times you see people sparring without eye protection where they aren't being totally reckless. For example, in the Belgarath rule set, no part of your weapon may be small enough to fit into an eye socket. Even pomels must have sufficient padding to meet this requirement. As a result, despite our general lack of eye protection, I have seen many black eyes over the years, but never a serious eye injury.
I was an international Olympic Sabreur, in the UK top 15 for over a decade between the 80's & 90's. I've also done a bit of iaido and tameshigiri. I practiced Wing Chun for 5 yrs and still practice the form for Baat Cham Dao (Butterfly Swords). I also attend Swordpunk events and have half speed sparred Butterfly Swords to Yari bokken there.
In terms of recognising if someone knows swordsmanship is watching how they move, especially the head. A good swordsman moves so the head stays at the same level, no matter which direction they're travelling. Footwork is extremely important as distance judgement comes from that and good footwork is immediately apparent.
So remember the video from Holmgang Hamburg where the guys hacked at each other with sharp swords?
Yeah, it's a fight club. I think I read something about two people dying and one guy losing all sensation in one arm due to their stupidity, but by your definition, people today still find themselves in sword combat.
I made the mistake of reading through their comments, and they disregard every HEMA practicioner for being "cowardly" and never having been in a real fight. Therefore if you don't fight them = your claims are worthless. (Kinda makes me hope someone experienced in HEMA goes to one of their meetings and just guts a guy in seconds)
At least nobody of worth gets hurt, as they're neonazis.
Yeah I've seen people hack at each other's backs with blades in some country as some kind of "tradition". Idk if it's technically full-on combat to the death intentionally. I wonder about some gang bangers (like MS 13) getting in knife fights, though.
Political affiliation is irrelevant, those guys are stupid only for one simple reason: They view their way of sword fighting as the most authentic despite the fact that they prohibit the use of thrusts. Since thrusts are so dangerous even those guys are willing to prohibit them while using sharp swords, but it definitely defeats the purpose of what they are doing in terms of authenticity. And the fact that they killed two of their own.....just wow. They are very brave (stupid?) you gotta give them that, but the way they don't realise how unauthentic their way of fighting is rendered by a simple detail is really really bad.
@@samasumo2 I haven't heard anything about banning thrusts from them, but then I also haven't watched enough of their stupidity to see if they actually do it or not.
Still, disregarding proven methods of fighting because nobody who trained that is suicidal enough is just stupid.
Not exactly neonazis in the well known sense, but close.
You see, that what happens when frat students and ex-military hit high adrenaline-resistant level : they seek adrenaline and they find it in "yeah, lets fight with sharp weapons".
Obviously they do not want to kill each other - and lack any proper technique. Plus they fear for their lifes, which made their fencing very long-range and overall not very agressive.
From what I've seen, their vid started with "just any weapon" and went to "ok, shield, axe, helmet, a bit of chainmail over the shoulders", while it started looking like some proper combat for once...
Btw., no one wanted to fight longsword on longsword - they wanted to go with shield + axe, which proves the point, that in fact, they do prefer staying alive.
@@samasumo2 they actually got some kills? Never heard of it, but ok.
"the sword path" youtuber claims to have been in a fight potentially "to the death", or at least till first blood drawn with sharp swords. He talks about it in one of his videos
Thank you Skallagrim about that video. Quality content as always !
What you said about Larp weapons is quite true. Althought it is not near close to swordsmanship, it is quite demanding physically speaking and most importantly, fun. As a fellow Larper, I wanted to inform you that you're quite right concerning security : many Larps forbid the use of stabs because even if weapons are covered in foam or/and latex, there is still a fibreglass rigid core to them. Second : in most Larps, strikes to the head are not accepted either. Just imagine poking someone's eye or giving them a big wack in the teeth, ugh.
beautifully worded sir !
Ask ramsey Dewey how the masters of lineage are doing in Chinese martial arts. Lineage means nothing without true skill.
My biggest problem with hema is that its advocates (and i'm thinking principally of Shad) will argue quite strongly that its a 1-1 translation to the battlefield (he has said this in videos and in repeated comments). This is fundamentally false, no amount of play can be considered even remotely close to what it would be actually like to use these skills to defend yourself. There is simply not significant cost to loosing to replicate the psychological role that real combat imposes on mistakes. The easiest way around this is put real money down on loosing. If you had to pay $1000 for every loss you would see a very different style of fighting emerge amongst modern "experts"
I fully agree with you. HEMA and battlefield are imo completely different. We do both in our training, 'serious' one-on-ones and group fights with lighter weapons. And then at max we're like 10 people. Imagine a battlefield in the hundreds, or thousands.
You can even see this element being played out in other combat sports like Boxing or BJJ. There's a very real difference in psychological pressure in technical sparring, normal/hard sparring, and being in a sanctioned match where there's a purse on the line AND results would mean a W or L on your fighter's record.
Another is the intent of the other fighter. There's a huge difference between sparring an amped-up novice, a high skilled/technical fighter who's holding back, and someone that's actively trying to HURT you and knows how to do it within the rules. Fighting someone who is looking purely to cause you pain and hurt is in a totally different realm of intensity.
@@PedoPlueschi should look up HMB buhurt 150 vs 150, bit of a slow burn at points but it’s probably as close to full contact mass battle
@@kaelyamasita417 We do have someone in our club that does Buhurt! It's always exciting talking with him and I wanted to join at his training more than once. Sadly was not able to yet.
A quick discussion of footwork is necessary here -- terrain matters to the point of being paramount. Tall grass on a hill is different than a flat and smoothly cobbled street -- a different world, requiring different footwork habits. Learning to keep the balls of your feet on the ground might make you trip over a root when fighting among trees or briars. Learning to prioritize a balanced stance "at all times no matter what" can get you easily shoved down a steep hill or a stairwell. You need to learn environments and what habits are important in each. There is no one answer.
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I also wish to address Skal's comment about "practicing bad techniques, but getting good with them".
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Not every historical sword technique is bio-mechanically sound/efficient. It worked enough of the time that it was deemed worthy of writing down, but that doesn't make it superior to a technique someone of today might develop and perfect to replace it. The new technique can be the better one. It can, in fact, be considerably better. The past does not own the rights to being called the best. Only practical application tells the truth. However, I would say that to replace an old technique with a new one, you first need to learn the old one well. Perhaps there is overlap here in opinion; I imagine so.
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It seems to be our human nature to look at the past as if everything written then is gospel -- but it most certainly isn't, and in fact some of it is dangerously wrong. Just as some people today have flawed opinions they strongly wish to share, some people of the past were the same way. Humans don't change. We should not treat someone's claim as fact just because they are dead.
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Some of the very best historical swordsman wrote down techniques that are, in my opinion, terrible. These swordsman as far as I can tell through application of their techniques thought themselves good fighters because they fought against lesser-trained opponents who were much slower than them. (Speed ALWAYS trumps technique, if you are fast enough.) Some techniques they advocate fall apart when the opponent is just as fast and well trained -- but this fact is rarely addressed in videos concerning swordsmanship, and in fact I don't think I've ever seen a video dedicated to the topic. One particular subject here that comes to mind is long-sword stances; most of them will get you hit.
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The person in the video on the Combat Outlook channel, when he spars with the axe, demonstrates to me that he does not know swordsmanship whatsoever. He is not even close to proficient. His off-hand extends in front of him often, at distances where he would 100% forever lose use of his hand if against a trained enemy. He constantly backs off and resets the engagement at the first sign of aggression, as if afraid of what the opponent is doing. He is never in position for a follow up strike, and seems to be more interested in "tagging the target" once at the edge of his sword's range. His steps are slow and high -- he does not remain connected to the ground where he can instantly change direction. This person has NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE DOING. None at all.
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Hot take incoming. Sword technique typically should not be approached as if you have luxuries. People practice as if you are always in a formal duel, where you've both agreed to this nice open flat space. The opponent swings, and you just back up. It's treated like a fencing match between two drunk gentleman who've decided they dislike each other. Imagine two armies on a battlefield, each side's men acting this way. It's ridiculous. You can't back up. You have 12+ rows of fellow soldiers behind you. You have one job; go forward, execute a technique to immediately kill the man in front of you, and then move to the next man if you are still alive. Such sword-fights should, and in fact must, begin and end in almost the same moment.
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You learn to swordfight so that you don't have to step backward. Stepping backward means your skills failed you -- you are resetting the engagement to try again. Sword steps are forward, and sometimes lateral. If you cannot just walk into the opponent and force them to either back up or get hit, you aren't learning to fight. I am not just BSing here. I can walk into someone who "knows how to sword-fight", parry anything they do, and land a blow of my own. I do not fear getting hit, because I won't ever get hit. I know how to prevent it even as I advance. And I have proven it to a number of people, what I mean. That is sword-fighting, outside of fencing. 99% of videos is just fencing super-imposed onto other weapons, where the style is not particularly effective or appropriate.
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"Why so rude?" Sorry. Don't mean to be. I respect every person trying to learn the sword. But it doesn't help anyone to say good job and keep at it. They are wasting their time if they aren't learning to frame/box out the opponent's options of attack and just move in at will to take space. If you are better than the swordsman in front of you, you absolutely own every inch of the space around you. The opponent must constantly reset the engagement and retreat from you, and you only reset when it is useful rather than out of necessity. You should be able to just walk forward (occasionally pausing or changing the rate of your approach as to not be timed of course) and corner someone who behaves as this Combat Outlook fellow does (stepping in to swing and then immediately backing away to safety).
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The enemy of training is fear of being struck. If you fear the enemy's weapon, you will not learn. You have to trust your techniques. If you can't, it's because that technique is bad. It is too slow and sometimes fails you. Change what you do, instead of learning to fear. That's how you will get much better at sword-fighting.
Ends the video with the point that the entirety of worthwhile martial arts channels on UA-cam have hundreds of whole videos on;
If you aren't practicing against a resisting opponent, you aren't actually learning how to fight.
Legend.
I've always said that sparring and fighting are separate from each other.
Sparring is for learning and application the respect is usually there. Actual fighting in a lot of cases is just you trying to remove the opponent from the fight or vice versa. I don't think the guy who kicked your teeth in after you've been knocked out respects you... lol
Most fencing books talk about duells. You can apply the art otherwise as well, but that is the context in most cases.
Suppose you're a bürger (citizen) in small germanic town around 1550. It is evening, you go to the tavern, having some beers. You get into an argument with a fellow citizen. He calls your mother something nasty or otherwise insults your honor. You know, your honor is a real thing and getting it damaged may lead to real life economical consquences. You have to defend it.
You demand a duell. You agree to meet with your seconds at a certain place the other night.
Now, indulge me: what is a good outcome, what is bad outcome for your private duell?
Suppose you both draw your sword, have a fight. You cut through the hand of your opponent, so that he loses some fingers or is otherwise unable to work with his hand for a living. You both live in the same town, you get sued and will have to pay for his injuries. Definetly not an optimal outcome.
Maybe you even land a very good thrust to the face or the or the chest, exactly like your treatise describes. He dies of his injuries, either instantly or later. Doesn't matter. You're probably getting persecuted and most likely hanged. Even worse outcome.
Maybe both of you draw your sharp swords, hit the other and inflict some superficial wounds. He apologises. Your honor is restored, because both of you were brave enough to fight with sharp swords.
Now, do you think, that there is an incentive to fight in a controlled way in the 15th century under the circumstances described in our fencing books?
@@mephisto8101 Are you sure that people were persecuted by law because of duels?
Weren't you excused to maim or even kill the other since they accepted the duel?
@@BioTheHuman That highly depends on location and time. Would have to check the laws. A good read about the martial ethic and the legal circumstances can be found in B. Ann Tlusty's "The martial ethic in early modern germany: civic duty and the right of arms" .
From the back of my head, if you participate in a Fechtschule, a fencing tournament, the usual goal was to cut a bleeding wound on your opponent, preferably at the head. The so called "Höchste Rühr" or highest goal. That could win you the round. If you stab your opponent in the eye, you would have to pay a considerable fine. If you kill them in the tournament, there would be a legal investigation by the authorities on the circumstances and your relationship with the victim. If it was established, that both of you didn't know each other and held no grudge and it was indeed an accident, you could go free. That was a historic case.
Later on, when duelling became really popular amongst unversity students, this kind of behavior was highly discouraged by the lawmakers, as many young lads perished during duels. The interesting thing was, that the legal punishment for duels was extraordinarily high, but it was rarely enforced. It was intended to up the stakes and create an incentive for cautious behaviour.