Blacksmith Rates 9 Forging Scenes From Movies And TV | How Real Is It? | Insider
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- Опубліковано 3 тра 2024
- Blacksmith Neil Kamimura rates nine forging scenes from movies and television for realism.
He discusses the accuracy of "The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King" (2003), "Game of Thrones" (2014), and "Rambo" (2008), starring Sylvester Stallone. He also comments on scenes from "Conan the Barbarian" (1982), starring Arnold Schwarzenegger; "Iron Man" (2008), starring Robert Downey Jr.; and "A Knight's Tale" (2001). Kamimura analyzes the forging in "Ragnarok" (2021); "Infinite" (2021), starring Mark Wahlberg; and "Avengers: Endgame" (2019).
Kamimura owns and operates the forge T Kamimura Blacksmith in Hawaii.
You can follow Neil Kamimura here:
/ rpm_neil
Website: tkamimurablacksmith.com/
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Blacksmith Rates 9 Forging Scenes From Movies And TV | How Real Is It? | Insider - Розваги
![[실시간] 전철에서 찍힌 기생생물 감염 장면 | 기생수: 더 그레이](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4nkFvwxGAfA/mqdefault.jpg)
I kind of love how Insider got a lot of experts who tried to be nice while criticizing something, and this guy is like, “Nah, that’s just crap.” 😂
888⁸888⁸8888
Love the honesty, even if it’s kinda harsh lol
Just shows that he loves his craft and Hollywood has a poor understanding of this craft
The ditch guy wasn´t trying to be nice aswell
In movie scenes the actors do not have to do it right - only imitate what they are doing
It would be the same energy required of them >and the crew< to imitate it right - and still there are many, who don't even put the effort in it - out of pure lazyness
His ruthlessness and his refusal for sugarcoating his criticisms just shows how much passion he actually has for blacksmithing.
Nobody yet replied to you so...FIRST!
I miss your old PP
It also is what makes this video so interesting.
Are you serious? If you think this is ruthlessness you must've grown up in a disney world
Why do i see you everywhere
I remember this dude on Forged in Fire. In a challenge his first attempt at a knife went south and he had to start over and he hammered out a knife, swinging with all his strength and skill in 30 minutes from a single small billet that he made from canister steel. This man is no joke. Not only did he hammer out that knife in 30 minutes, it was better than his other competitors knives they spent hours on.
Did he end up winning??
RIGHT!!!! I think I saw that episode a few years ago (if I remember correctly). Great point! Thanx...
what episode?
@@owenhalloran3111 Season 4 Episode 8 "The Cinquedea"
(SPOILERS btw)
He did win
Dude.. I just watched the episode. Nothing you said here happened
I love how brutally honest he is in his judgements. You can tell he really knows his craft.
Hard disagree, but you do you.
@@user-le9qt5te3x Why?
I LOVE how merciless this man is in his criticisms. Taking full advantage of the platform he’s been given to mock those who make a mockery of his craft. I could listen to him for hours!
It's great up until he says he wouldn't let Jason Momoa's movie have bad forging.... when Momoa stared in a remake of Conan THAT DID THE EXACT SAME THING! 2:33
@@Thickcurves maybe they weren't friends 12 years ago
Except, I love how he went easy on Conan because, "it was made in the 80s and they didn't know any better". lol Well, yes, they had plenty of problems getting that movie made. The accuracy of a forging scene was the least of their worries.
I'm sitting here making notes for my D&D game. I would totally listen to him more.
@@davidberger3472 love D&D
This is probably one of the harshest "Blacksmith Rates" videos I've seen, but also my favorite. Neil isn't pulling punches and I love it!
He doesn’t sugar coat things like today generation who are scared when someone calls them out and whinge like 2 year old toddler cos they got offended haha
@@Jeffro5564 Hurr durr new bad old good
Yes this was a great video. Too bad movies are disrespecting his craft.
@@jameskerwin5836 yeah, I've seen in other videos like this though, and he may have even mentioned it, that they have to make creative choices a lot of times in movies to make it look better/show up properly on camera. I still like videos pointing out what's right and wrong though!
Honesty is good.
We learned more now than if he'd been coddling and not entirely true.
i like how he was straight to the point. people who criticize something should be exactly like this guy, honest to the soul.
Come to the Netherlands! We are famous for our honesty, though we are called rude by others for it.
@@chaoss5 i believe there is a fine line between being honest, and being a douche. sometimes being honest is the best, but theres a few instances where you actually need to lie, or puff up your answer to sound positive.
@@chaoss5 Wut? Who said that ever?
A blacksmith swings his hammer with purpose, precision, and weight.
I love to see they can do the same with words. Those criticisms had enough purpose, precision, and weight as an actual hammer.
The “impurities” he was smashing out were the misconceptions Hollywood has created of actual smithing.
Respect.
I really do want them to make an accurate portrayal of smithing techniques in the future, and a lot of these scenes are definitely not even close after all of Neil Kamimura's insightful explanation. Not to mention the point he made about Japanese swords and how the craft is built on respect, I feel like a lot of people forget the culture beyond what they see in fantasy.
However, it could also be argued that some of these scenes are less about the making but more about the meaning. Forging scenes usually come with character development, even though these scenes are cringy in hindsight. For example, in the Game of Thrones scene, they want to show the transition from big, bulky two-handed sword to the two smaller swords. Clarity trumps accuracy because the point is that they need to show the detailing on Ned's sword against the cool, black crucible. They pour it into an open mould because again, they want to emphasize its that same sword taking on a different form. It doesn't make sense from a craftsman's perspective, but it does from the creative storytelling/filmmaking point of view.
@@h3rpad3rpacifilisIt's the same thing with the re-forging of Narsil and it's change into Anduril; putting Elvish magic inherent in Lord of the Rings and the restoration of a 3,500 year old blade aside, where the edges are still sharp, it was meant to be representative of Aragorn taking up the mantle of kingship, and finally being worthy...
Insider, you need to bring this guy back for more. This is the type of reviews I want to see, honest, brutal but with actual knowledge behind what he is saying and explanation of why he thinks that way.
not actual this guy, but more like the "brutal" honest guy like him
All that, and he's not calling the people who makes these scene idiots or something.
@@dikofazhari7071 What about Ben Abbot?
Dude is terrible, then the Jason name drop shows he is a douchebag and act as if he has any pull in a set talking about how he won't let him do a scene a certain way. He doesn't account for the story like in the game of thrones when the sword is made out of material that is supposed to be mythical from the lore but he just want to show off his expertise. 100% dude is a douchebag in real life.
They have had a few.
I like it, one of the paleontologists was like that.
When experts sugar-coat things they are not helping anyone.
This man is actually jokes. Nonstop laughter at his commentary and natural humor but you can also tell he has enough experience to back his criticism. What a cool dude
M
This is exactly what I expect from these videos: Neil Kamimura is an actual expert, who is negatively affected by the portrayal of his job, giving a critique of whether they're accurate or not. Nothing personal (save for the Rambo bit, haha), and he loves the cast and the movies... but he's actually motivated to call it if it's bs. And his explanation of what they got right, what not, how could they do better and such. Such a pro.
"A tree dude gives up his arm for a handle... you can't take it too seriously" Love this guy
one note in the Iron mane scene: cold forging is very common when armor smithing, and the coal forge is lit low to anneal the pieces at various stages so they don't crack after work hardening. I'm a blacksmith with 20 years experience. the quench in that scene is just Hollywood bs though. 7/10 is a good rating for that.
My other issue with any Iron Man scene is that an Iron Man suit can always be fixed with a Dremel and lots and lots of sparks.
He gave 7 because he liked IM though, he would have given lower otherwise.
Usually on the series, they have at least one really good example. Considering that he basically hated them all, do you have an example from a movie or show that actually did it correctly?
The Mark I suit is actually not made from steel I think. Since it's not some metal which exists in real life we could say pretty much anything I guess
@@identitymatrix it is just made from steel cuz he made that suit with the material from the “rocket” he was supposed to build
I’m a blacksmith and bladesmith as well. Scenes like these kill me because it would not take a lot of work for them to make accurate smithing scenes. They clearly are able to recreate blacksmith shops to a decent degree why not ask an actual Smith how it’s done? Us smiths love talking about our craft and would offer up some info in a heartbeat.
10 minutes to show someone how to hammer realistically. A couple more to get the anvil at the right height. Maybe half an hour total to get them to where they could make heating to critical, edge quenching, and swearing when them metal went _ting_ in the quench trough look and sound realistic :)
You'd think they'd have a bladesmith or a blacksmith on hand for consultation for the day or two it would take to shoot the scenes, but alas.
the main reason these scenes are not realistic is probably because of Insurance, and Health and Safety requirements on set.
That's the arrogance/laziness of Hollywood for you.
Main comment seemed to relate to heat being too low. Is it realistic to get heat to the required level without impacting on their makeup & causing the actors to sweat on camera etc? Also, actors aren't going to have any fitness or stamina compared to a real smith & in acting they repeat the scenes over & over & over, so again, do you think it would be realistic for actors to be doing the actions that make it look realistic in that setting?
Stuff like hitting the hole instead of the correct spot on the anvil though, yeh, obviously they can & should fix that!
I LOVED this guy. He was so knowledgable but also so funny 😂 He did not hold back and I love that
Same lmfao I love his savage but honest roasts 😭 Not to mention man literally looks like a badass Northern blacksmith in those fantasy world stories
Stallone has been doing gun movies forever and he still uses the teacup/saucer grip. I am not surprised at all that he chose to simply beat a piece of steel like he was hammering a nail. He's been relying on the audience's suspension of disbelief for so long, that it has shaped his film style.
lmao he does! he also has no trigger discipline.
Wahlberg's elbows are practically touching. No wonder he can't get any power. Your forearms are usually 90 degrees to each other and if any arm is going to be moving about and adjusting position, it's going to be your holding hand.
I'm glad you covered it, because I HATED the Rambo forging scene, it was utterly terrible. Inexcusably terrible. I'm also a bladesmith and it hurt my soul. Imagine a racing scene where the car had no wheels and the driver was facing backwards, that's how terrible it was.
This made me chuckle, thank you for putting it into laymans terms
The idea of him making a knife while having flashbacks is a cool idea.. but ya
Clearly you've never seen any of the Cars movies.
Yeah. I'm a weak person, if i was a DND character, my str would be 1 (not str modifier +1. Str 1).
Even I can handle some of the real smithing hammers, they're enough for small things. 1 kg, 1.5 kg. On the other hand, I'm like between normal and ambidextral, so handling the ticks with the left hand is not a problem to me, unlike other people who try smithing.
Everything after the first Rambo film is cheesy pentagon-funded propaganda.
Easily one of the best "How Real Is It?" episodes due to the great detailed analysis.
Now idea why so many movie makers don't just pay a professional advisor to get the basics right.
...because past experience shows that you first do all that and shoot it right, and then you decide it needs more visual pizazz to jazz it up, and gradually all that hard-won realism flies out the window. So next time you just go straight for the pizazz. I agree with you, though, but that's the reason why.
In 19th century novels you get whole pages of descriptions... both authors and readers hated it, but both felt that's what the other side was expecting. I suspect it is much the same with the set imagery of contemporary movies.
They hire stunt choreographers and personal trainers to get the martial arts and fight scenes looking realistic. Firearms experts and police trainers to improve firearms handling. Hire scientists and astronomers to consult on getting the theoretical science accurate in the latest summer sci-fi blockbuster. Then they throw all of that good sense out the window when it comes to forging scenes.
That and computer hacking scenes...
They do hire professional advisors (so they can put that in the credits), but directors typically ignore them to achieve their own artistic "vision" of a scene, or some other bs reason.
I think it's a mix of both. They hire experts (to claim that they did, rather than actually to listen to them), and add effects since they think the audience wants effects. Some do, some don't. _Armageddon_ is an example that managed to fall on both sides of the line. Very successful at the box office, but many would have stayed away if they had known how shallow the movie was going to be. The name of the trope is "viewers are morons" btw. "Rule of cool" applies, too.
OTOH, _Gravity_ managed to hit the good side most of the time, while _The Core_ just sucked. Insert a "Boardroom suggestion" meme, where every expert gets thrown out eventually, and only the brownnosers remain.
Yeah. Best example FMJ. R.Lee Ermey was hired as an advisor and ended up making the movie legendary.
As a welder the part about the throwing the glove off is so true. You can touch a hot piece of metal even for a split second with your glove you wont feel it for a second and then the heat immediately starts cooking your hand its such a weird feeling and catches you by surprise a lot
Or getting a small piece of hot metal in your glove - happens to me all time in foundry work (pouring metal) - gloves go flying when that happens 😅
I ride motorcycles, can confirm hot metal through gloves cooking your hand. Accidentally put my hand on my tail pipe when I dumped it once. Have not made that mistake again. Damn thing ate through my glove in about 3 seconds.
The critic made it very entertaining. Also can't help but have the deepest respect for a working skilled tradesmen like this.
Neil is Forged in Fire winner, he is awesome with blades he forged. Love his work
How many of the contestants have similar backgrounds as his vs how many are just medieval fans with disposable income?
I love him, too!
oh really, i think i vaguely remember him but i literally posted a comment to say he needs to go on FiF!
@@EV21 quite a lot of them are serious smiths or if part time then they've been doing it for years. usually also they're pitched against similarly skilled/experienced smiths so a master smith won't be put up against a 17 year old who started last month for example.
@@b4d69 at the begining there were alot of big names competing. But the latest seasons not so much.
For everyone who doesn't know Neil Kaminura, he is a Forged in Fire Champion (A show that consist of 4 bladesmiths competing against each other to create a blade).
I just realised lol the entire time I was like I have seen this guy somewhere
He's why I clicked the video! His work is impressive!
OMG! 🤦🏻♀️ THAT’S where I’ve seen him before! I was literally wracking my brain all the way through this, trying to figure out why & where I knew him from. Appreciate it & you’re right - his work is AMAZING!
He seems like a solid guy, I never met him despite being on the show three times myself.
There are some very talented guys on that show, but the way modern bladesmiths on that show go about creating a knife just kills me. Especially on the initial segment of the show (before they go to their home shop), 99% of them create what could only charitably be described as a somewhat knife-shaped object, then they grind away 2/3rds of the steel that's left to make it look like the knife they were going for.
I've been forging 18th century edged weapon reproductions for about 30 years now, and back then, raw materials were hard to come by, so they forged very closely to the final shape, and didn't have to remove (waste) much to clean it up and make it look good. I try to show some respect for my raw materials by not wasting a shitload of it.
Bro i love him. I have a huge respect for blacksmiths. Hes brutal ruthless but professional. I absolutely love him
I first became familiar with Neil Kamimura when I saw him compete on Forged In Fire. I was impressed with how well he forged his pieces. I then started following him on Instagram and was even more impressed with his blades. His craftsmanship is second to none. He’s definitely an expert in his field. It was a pleasure watching him critique how movies butcher his craft.
Mahalo for having me on the show!
Forge me a lightsaber please
Yeah! I hope they bring you back, you're absolutely awesome!
Sorry I couldn't give two likes
One of the few times I regret being a industrial electrician as your magnificent blades are out my reach. Please come back to critique more movies!
You're a wonderful guy who knows his stuff and is proud of his work! Your father raised a great son, remember that!
It really is fascinating to speak to -- or listen to -- someone from a profession that I'm not familar with. You realize there is so much to that profession that outsiders simply can't see -- or appreciate. So much context and nuance. Thank you for this video. It was very interesting. And this gentleman's brutally honest criticisms were hilarious.
Well said!
I've watched Forged in Fire, i'm practically one of you lol
Absolutely. Even the most "unskilled" of work has little details and nuances you'd never think of without actually doing it yourself. That goes up by orders of magnitude when you're considering a profession that takes years of training minimum.
It's the “Everything in the newspaper is accurate, except that one article about that one subject one happens to be an expert in, that's a joke written by someone who doesn't understand anything.”
6:44 Only thing I'm gonna say is that the sword they were melting down (it's named Ice) is absurdly large in both the books and show. That's why they were able to get two swords out of it.
I'm very disappointed they didn't show Balian from Kingdom of Heaven. That movie had very realistic blacksmithing technique and Orlando Bloom did a great job showcasing his abilities.
The biggest takeaway for pretty much all of these scenes seems to be "it's not hot enough". Filmmakers definitely seem to underestimate just how much heat is required for the forging process, and by extension what that does to the color of the metal.
I think it's actually the danger involved in having a white hot metal near the multi million actor. But again, they could have just added the correct color digitally. Also an orange colored heated metal is hot enough to eff em up, obviously.
It's a filmaker's technical problem. "Hot enough" is bright white while filming in a dark room. What you get is overexposed, ultrahigh contrast shot where you can't see anything but the flame. Keeping the flames kitchen hot and orange is necessary to film anything at all.
@@banhmibo Then as another commenter said, why not add the color digitally? Most of these shots are already using VFX to begin with.
@@EpicNerdsWithCameras That introduces a fair amount of extra expense to do, particularly for something that will only *really* bother Blacksmithing nerds. Everyone else might go "I'm pretty sure that isn't hot enough." and get told "Bah, it's just a movie." (Actual thing I get told constantly when I go "... that's... not how that works...")
also "Hollywood loooooves open faced molds"
I especially like how everyone seems to forge their swords at midnight… under an overcast sky… in a sealed cave.
😁
To be fair, I wouldn't want to be in a sweltering shop near a forge when it was already sunny and hot outside.
ayoooo
Oh I can give a reason for that one! :D It's easier to see the colour of the steel. Different temperatures give different colours. When I'm heat treating my knives I wait until it's darker out so it's easier to know I'm at the correct temperature.
@@KianGriffin also another fun fact cameras don’t show what the steel looks like irl when it’s hot it glows way brighter the camera just doesn’t pick it up
WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS!
I loved watching this guy on forged in fire. Absolutely one of my favorite contestants to date.
We love this professional’s take and honesty on each movie!
LoAA means telling the story as truthfully as possible!
Personally I agree about Robert Downey Jr's hammer swing since its also evenly paced to not trying to wear himself out but not going stupidly slow either.
That was probably the best part of all the clips. Looks very close to what I was taught as a silversmith (granted I don't do much hammer & anvil work because my neighbours would kill me), trick is to have an ergonomic stance and find a "rythm" in your strokes to minimize effort and strain. His stance looks good, like you said an even pace but the amount of force he uses looks a lot more like silversmithing than steel to me.
@@Loliiten Same thing when I worked construction. You used a 22oz framing hammer because it was the most efficient hammer size for the job. 2 swings on an 8d nail and 3 swings on a 16d nail.
@@chasm9557 Meanwhile us finish carpenters use a 16oz and 8 taps so we don't bruise the little trimmies haha
@@HiddenBrick22 I still used a 22oz when I would install moulding when we'd remodel kitchens, but I had one that was a smooth head as opposed to a waffle head and I would sand the face with a 100 grit piece of sandpaper a few swipes crossways to give it a bit of grip on the finish nail heads. If I needed to tap something in place, there was always a scrap piece of softwood I could use to protect the finish product and you just swing with your wrist and not with your arm. I was also used to swinging a 22oz all day long, so a 16oz would feel too short and light compared to what I was used to using.
@@chasm9557 I use a 16oz for trim cause i've had multiple wrist injuries and it feels much better after 10 hours of swinging a hammer, when I have to hand nail trim I use a lot more wrist movement than elbow or shoulder. But when I frame I use a 20oz framer. Never been a fan of waffle heads though for any application, I get the purpose but just not for me.
I would have liked Neil analyze the orc bladesmiths, who were actual WETA blademakers who produced the swords for Lord Of The Rings
Yeah, as a major LotR fan, I was kind of disappointed that they chose the Elven smithing scene. It's definitely the most 'fantasy' out of all the potential choices; you're meant to assume that there's some serious Elven magic going on. A better choice would have been the grittier scenes from Isenguard.
@@moonwatcher99 agree~
@@moonwatcher99 If the elves had "magicked" Andúril together, that would have been fine. But hammering a bunch of pieces together was dubious
In the brief scenes in the caverns of Isengard where they're making the Urukhai cleavers , I would say there are a couple of improper quenches where the blade is not heated uniformly and not dunked completely in the quench medium. There's a shot where they hammer on a cold blade and a shot where they hammer way too hard on what looks to be a near finished blade, at which point you'd only be tapping it to make sure it's straight and the surfaces are nice and flat. And if I really wanna get nitpicky, there's a super short shot with an orc using a manual powered wheel to grind a blade that has no bevel, even though the forged blades seemed to already have forged bevels. Also it looks like they used some magnesium alloy to get really bright white sparks which are untypical of steel, especially at the speed of a manually powered grinding wheel. Plus there's a bunch of low temperature molten material being poured that can't be the same material as the swords because the swords are solid at the same color.
The fact that the swords were designed and made by a certain prop making company has no bearing on how they show the weapons made in the film.
@@moonwatcher99 The elven magicks would've been acceptable but Peter Jackson made a conscious decision to mute most of the magical elements and keep things more grounded inadvertently making that forging scene not pass the suspensionof disbelief bar. I'm not a blacksmith but I've worked in welding and machine shops and I thought it was ridiculous.
Kamimura you delightful man you. That was awsome, brutally honest and harsh, yet still tempered enough to get points across
You have got to love Neil's honesty! He was my favourite when he appeared on Forged in Fire. A real professional. Jason Knight would have also pulverized these scenes
This was thoroughly enjoyable. Thank you ! What a cool guy
Hello ☑
Love this guy, looks like you could just sit down with him and listen to him ramble about how much he loves this stuff for hours!
He looks so genuinely interested and invested in everything he does.
@Repent and believe in Jesus Christ jesus is fake
As someone that’s only just worked with welding and such, I admire how ruthless he is because it shows just how much respect metal needs and demands
This is my favorite one yet. I was cracking up all through this. Let’s find this man some more forging scenes to critique 😂
I remember this guy from Forged in Fire and wining the episode he was in , talking about how the show inspired him to become a bladesmith, seeing how he turned out to be, and him owning a successful business makes me happy. God bless you, Neil.
i thought the business was established in 1932 from his grandfather....
@@noneck3099 it was, but the show inspired him to continue the family tradition.
This dude's hilarious. Need him and Jason Momoa in a buddy comedy.
Totally bro
That and his expertise are my favorite part!
Wow that sounds god awful 🥺🍺
Man, if they ever do that I'd preorder the bluray before even actually watching the movie! Momoa is too cool and this guy is amazing!
I'd watch it in a heart beat
Neil is great at what he does. He has helped me with questions and been a major influence on my craft! Keep hammering brother!!
I love how this man called an anvil sexy 😂 More of him please
The amount of benefit of the doubt he’s giving people is so wholesome
Except Rambo, cuz F*** Rambo!
This was by far the best episode from your series ever. The most honest person talks out of his soul. Respect for this blacksmith it was about time that an expert explains to Hollywood filmmakers what jackasses they are in some regards:)
You should probably watch the Fireman Chronicles. He rips apart firefighting TV shows in a very funny way. Hope you enjoy it!
I think they don't care. They want to show open top because molds are boring, can't see the hot metal glow
@@nameunknown007 Most likely true, and maybe not because boring, but it's instantly recognizable. I _would_ like to see a scene where they show a nice investment casting. (Actually, the forging of the Rings of Power in the LotR movies is pretty close.)
I actually found this dude totally charismatic and easy going! Love to see more.
Neil is just way too nice and polite about the rating, such a big hearted guy
Not only have you gotten a blacksmith and bladesmith to rate these scenes, Neil is also a Forged In Fire Champion!
I knew it, i kinda recognize him from somewhere. Its the keel show
2 time forged in fire winner
His family's professional blacksmith lineage is infinitely more impressive than winning that joke of a show.
@@xDjembexhes an amazing person with alot of talent, but I don't understand why you're crapping on the show.
@@jbrock2175 because it's not a worthy metric and the theatrics of the show detract from any semblance of legitimacy the contest may have.
The funny think about the Lord of the Rings is they actually had professional blacksmiths forging all those weapons. The prop shop made replicas of them all for various types of filming shots but...there were hero blades created by actual smiths.
Not only that, but the first time we "fly-through" under Isengard and see weapons being forged for the Uruks, those were set armourers in orc make-up, as it was safer to get people who knew what they there doing to be around hot metal than to have extras or stunt performers do it. (Doesn't explain the reforging of Narsil scene though.) :)
@@MartinDickson because white hot metal does not look good in movie mood lighting btw the critic has done that same trick on his channel banging on a blade way to cold to actually be hammering away at because it look better than white hot.
yeah but those blacksmiths probably weren't involved on the filmmaking side, probably just for the props (and as extras). And there's a lot of creative liberty done to "get a shot".
@@Native_Creation to be fair though when you have actors and dangerous props risk assement tends to get involved and say nooo you cant do that.
@@aikidodude05 umm the metal should be orange when hammering at it especially in the shaping process. It only needs to bee white-hot when forge welding .
This guy is incredibly entertaining to listen to
Great analysis by Smith Kamimura. He is wonderfully honest in his descriptions of what is lacking in each of these scenes. I was very happy to see the classic sword forging sceene from Conan the Barbarian included, as that scene where the blade is cast always annoyed me. This video has given me a new Smith to watch on UA-cam, and I love those kind of gifts. I give this video a 9/10. (lost a point for not having more content ;) )
So glad he said a little on the difference between forging and casting.
And that the sci-fi/fantasy metals don't need to be that realistic.
the elvish hammer-swing technique 😂
yea i agree on that part. those are fantasy sci-fi/fantasy film which is why he didnt give 3/10 to all of them because he knows they don't need be really accurate. but they were too lazy to even do research on it lol
Yeah the forging scene from LOTR have more one can get away with. The real life version of Anduril that BKS forged looked pretty damn cool though.
He didn't mention this, but cast steel also doesn't have the properties you want in a weapon.
Historically, you *couldn't* cast steel. Heating your iron that much would cause it to absorb way too much carbon, and the resulting metal would be (unsurprisingly) cast iron, not steel.
In modern times, you can cast steel, but the resulting microstructure is not good for a weapon. Forging gets you a weapon that is tougher and more durable.
"And that the sci-fi/fantasy metals don't need to be that realistic." You clearly do not write fantasy or science fiction. One of the things that gets stressed repeatedly and old writers state constantly to new writers is "learn how a process is supposed to happen without magic or stupidly advanced technology, it will help you make things MORE fantastical."
Smithing is such a dying art, and it's awesome to see a master being critical and telling it as it is. As a boilermaker I always admired blacksmithing. Such a talent!
@Rukodiora decorative blacksmithing never exactly died but it was awfully close. It's increasingly popular nowadays though still very niche. Bladesmithing has always been around and is definitely waxing in popularity.
The vapor jacket talked about during the Conan part was something I didn't think about, but makes so much sense. Cool bit of information to learn.
I think this is one of the best, most honest, reviews. I hope they bring him back.
I'm surprised that noone in the filmmaking industry just went: OK, we're doing a forging scene, let's invite a blacksmith for a couple hours to show us how it's done.
They just go "OK, everyone knows what forging is, just hit hot metal with a hammer, then put in cold water"
Why spend money when you can keep money?
Why waste money when the common viewer will probably never realize?
@@LightHawKnight There's something instinctually engrained in humans about the "correct" way the world works.
Like why we see a difference between a well choreographed fight scene that had body mechanics in mind, and the one that isn't.
Why John Wick's action looks solid and the gunfight in the first Matrix movie (you know the one, where they're running up walls as if it was a dream sequence) looks impossible.
And why a guy smacking a metal bar in the middle with a ball peen hammer doesn't look right either.
And let's use just some hammer. Hey David, go get some hammer from home depot.
@@darth_dan8886 A lot of John wick fight scenes look like they are trying not to kill each other to me. The matrix I give a bit of a pass because it is supposed to be supernatural.
I like how he ends with: "They may actually make a good one". I hope so too. I remember watching a video of making a katana for real and there was so much more than I ever thought went into it.
Well accuracy is sacrificed for cinematography. The idea is to show just enough that he audience gets the idea but no more.
The best forging scene is Kill Bill, where the master swordsmith disappears for a month then comes back with the finished piece, having completed his work off screen :)
@@antourte1 I would not include scenes that were never filmed as "best" scenes.
@@robertmickelberg3720 I apologize my obviously light hearted suggestion failed your very literal standard for a hypothetical internet list.
Yeah he is 100% on all these and yes making a katana in traditional way takes a age from initial bloom steel all the way through the breaking and sorting of the steel tiles to the final polishing and testing of the sword. For one person it is truly a masterful art. Now we have many grades of steel made it a little easier as alot of people use one homogenous metal instead of creating a traditional jacket of hi and low carbon steel which creates a hard resilient edge and still allows the sword to flex and release pressure on the blade. Many nuances in sword making.
6:47 From what I remember in the books, the sword they melted down was described as having a 6 feet long blade (fairly large great sword) and they made it into a longsword and an arming sword sized for a teenager.
It's actually magical steel as well...
Love this guy!!
His knowledge of his craft is vast; and based on his comments you can be assured he gives his own work strict attention to detail
I have followed Neil for years on other social media and its good to see Insider finally let the experts go both barrels on these hollywood movies. Well done, more of this!
Small detail to redeem LoTR about not using all the pieces - that sword initially was large af because the people who lived at the time were much taller, so for a shorter guy it would make sense to forge a shorter sword.
Also, they're elves, so everything they do is magic. The heating and hammer swinging was just part of the ritual.
@@kd5nrh was going to say this. Only elves could do it because only elves had the magic to do it.
Also the GOT sword isn't really steel so maybe Valyrian steel works different to ordinary steel...he also had an issue with them making two swords from the one blade but i don't think he realise that the original sword was a Greatsword that was turned into two Longswords
Further, the original wielder back in the times when people were taller... was Elendil The Tall. He was actually know as The Tall. Dude was like 8 feet tall. (2.4ish meters for those using the more sensible measure of distance.)
Aragorn is still quite tall at 6.6 feet, or just under 2 meters, so I'm still not sure how much length you want to lose on that blade.
@@SquallLionhart409 You need to go on a mountain somewhere, and live three months in a desolate cabin with only J.R.R. Tolkien books and movies and George R.R. Martin books and movies for entertainment. To quote my fav eco-warrior,,How dare you??!!''
Kamimura ganó el reto de "forged un fire". Hizo un trabajo impecable. Es evidente que siente un gran respeto por su arte, y creo que hizo que todos sintieramos lo mismo
Would love to see him react to the forging scene in avatar the last airbender!
Great episode
I had this EXACT SAME THOUGHT
My favorite "bad" forging movie is "Dragonslayer" (1981) where the hero, after having had a special spear forged for him chops off the smith's anvil's horn (cold!) as a test. What a great way to thank the craftsman who has just produced a very special weapon for you!
Vandalizing their workshop is the most proper way to thank a craftsman for his time and effort and talent. That's what I've always been told, anyways.
With a title like Dragonslayer I suspect the creators of the film were inspired by the legends of Siegfried (or Sigurd) the Dragonslayer in which the dwarven smith Regin is tasked with forging the hero a mighty sword with which he will slay the dragon Fafnir. Sigurd tests two swords against the smith's anvil and both break. Regin then reforges Gram (or Balmung) the sword of Siegfried's father (broken by Odin) which passes the test.
Lol sounds like how my ex played video games:
Ex: “Thanks!”
Ex:
😧
I don't think anything can chop off an anvil's horn in one swing without shattering
@@bobsurname6344 You have a point there. There is also the saga of Wieland. He tests his sword Mimung against his anvil and splits the anvil. Also Mimung splits a man in armour with a light touch. Some of those sagas and movies inspired by them may have taken a few artistic liberties and sacrifized historical accuracy.
As a bladesmith, Neil has been one of the most potent influences and inspirations in my path
I dig Neil's matter of fact way of reacting to these clips.
This guy is so rightfully fed up, and it's adorable. Get this guy on more movie sets!
I watch tons of these and this is one of the very best. Neil Kamimura - way to drop tons of knowledge. Those of us interested in blacksmithing have lots to learn from you. I know an expert when I hear one, and you know exactly what you're talking about. Thank you!
IIRC Neil successfully competed in "Forged in Fire". He does not only have the knowledge, he has the skills too.
That was informative and fun! Can we get more from him?
Agreed! Was great and funny toi hear him call out all the bs haha!
This has just made me that much more excited to learn blacksmithing.
This is one of my fave in this series! This is hella informative!
Just a note on the GoT segment - the initial sword that got melted was HUGE. It was described as such in the books and it was shown as an impractically large one in the show. So that's why its metal was enough for two normal swords. All the other issues with the casting can be attributed to the material itself - it's some magical "valyrian" steel, so it might be like bronze - not benefitting from being hammered, which would make it more pactical to be cast into shape.
I agree with you, though as magical as Valyrian steel is supposed to be, the book mentions there's barely anyone who can forge it anymore, meaning the material requires a very specific know-how and would be less practical to forge than regular steel.
Btw, on the swords size, Ice (the name of the first sword) was indeed gigantic AND the sword later gifted to Joffrey was made smaller than normal to fit him.
They didn't really do the magical swords Justice. Valerian steel is supposed to be indestructible and cut through other materials easily like through swords.
@@serronserron1320 I think they also mention Valyrian steel sword make a distinctive sound when they're drawn.
I was just looking through the comments to see if anyone else mentioned this. Even that episode of the show mentioned that they had reworked two swords from the original one, because it was ridiculously large.
The rest of his review on how the metal was recast is spot on, though.
I guess the other thing is that Ice was not used in battle, so it may not have been built to take punishment. That said, the scene fails on the fact that they cast the swords, rather than forged them.
I love the derision at the Rambo scene, because he's right - a movie with a big star and budget could at least spend comparatively pennies to get someone on set that can point out the most basic error. Like one day of someone's time is enough to make somethin terrible passable. Not to get all high and mighty, but it shows a lack of respect for the reality of what is supposed to be happening in the scene. Just spend the $1000 to get someone qualified on set for a day to advise.
That would be from the movie's budget and you think they'll want to spend that money when people are watching it for the action and killing and gore instead of the smithing realism?
I think most smiths would be so proud to have a famous action star in their workshop for a day or two that it could be done for an autograph and a picture together
@@festivebear9946 first Rambo has a budget in the millions. A thousand bucks is like me giving you a dollar.
And finally anyone of these producers could have gone to a professional smith and ask them to be on set for a day or two for a big movie like Iron Man or Rambo. For pay the smith would more then likely settle for a good dinner with a autograph and picture. The fact that the movie wanted their expertise and was willing to show their craft in a big movie being done the right way is probably worth more to them.
@@josephherrera6656 I'm saying that nobody in the target demographic would've cared if the smithing was realistic or not. So why waste a day or two on doing that?
I understand that it's not a lot in comparison to the overall resources of the movie, but they had no reasons to care about it and thus, didn't.
In hindsight, 20-30 years after the rambo movies were made, maybe it would've been cool to have it accurately. Since we pay much more attention to detail. But back then, nobody is watching it for the minute details, everyone's watching it for the big explosions and guns and gore.
@@timothymoore7890 Yeah probably. But literally who cares? The movies were made 20-30 years ago when the general demographic of these movies only wanted to watch some action and explosions. Nobody was watching it for the realistic smithing scenes.
So spending 1-2 days on something like this is just a plain waste.
10:03 That is very cool. Literally. The clay keeps the back cooler, so the sword bends. I had no idea, but it makes perfect sense.
I can't believe I never saw this video! I love Neil Kamimura and his work is awesome! (as awesome as his hair)
Discovered him because Jason Momoa keeps advertizing him, and he actually did Jason's weapons for several movies/tv shows, which I find so awesome. That Katana on See was just pure gorgeousness.
I have no experience forging anything, and I'm not challenging any of those aspects. But as a photographer, I can said that everything Mr. Kamimura says about the colour of the hot metal is correct, but that's where reality has to give way to creative license. When shooting photos or footage, they can't have the steel (or anything else) be properly hot, because it would completely blow out the scene. That's a creative choice, and it has to be made to put the art over the authenticity. I've worked with directors that make those choices, and the ones I've worked with don't take it lightly.
That said, anyone that watches a movie or TV show and thinks they have the knowledge needed to tell an expert in ANY field how to do their job because they saw it on "CSI: Boise" or whatever is just delusional.
Hot steel is actually darker in natural light to human eye than on camera in a same natural light. Camera captures color better when it comes to hot steel.
Thats why blacksmiths usually darken the room when its time to do quenching . To see color of the steel better.
P 3
Have you heard of CGI or photoshop? Can't you make the steel brighter with after effect?
@@williamberne thats what I was about to say too. Overall though I think red is just the chosen color because it's more eye catching and we associate it with many hot things in our daily lives (red on the faucet, red fire trucks, red chili peppers, etc.)
it is perfectly possible to film hot steel without having the footage blown out with the light. just look at youtube blacksmiths like "the Works" and you can see beautiful properly hot steel shots while forging and being able to see everything they do. no CGI or camera tricks needed to do it. just the right settings and knowledge on how bright the surroundings have to be compared to the hot steel.
15:07 Nike sword
I just checked out this guy's channel. He does amazing work... I immediately subscribed.
Neil is absolutely awesome. I love the concise & hilarious way he explains the flaws in each movie scene. He is very informative & funny.
This may be my favorite one of these. I love how he just says "No. That's crap." and then explains why it's crap!
It’s always a delight to see a master craftsmen discussing their trade and giving feedback on the realities of film making. Movies and their like have some suspension issues disbelief, but there’s just something special about capturing the reality of a given craft while representing it in media. When it’s done right, and looks cool, that is the victory we want to see
Wow! This one was great! Neil Kamimura explains so much! Hollywood’s storytelling needs more research.
9:47 such a beautiful blade, he instantly wins all my trust with that piece of art.
Well, the snow-quenched Conan sword did shatter in combat later on in the movie so it ended up being pretty accurate.
If I recall correctly he was making a weapon using the best he had, so it wasn't like it was supposed to be high quality materials. But then again, it's been a long time since I've seen it.
That critique always bothered me I've watched so many of these types of breakdowns and they never mention the fact that the sword does indeed break when struck by the Atlantean Sword.
I wonder if it was intended to be ceremonial
Bit nitpicky but if it failed to quench properly what you would get would be a blade that hadn't hardened rather than one with microfractures/ too brittle, etc. It would basically just bend like a banana when used.
@@92Pyromaniac Bananas don't bend.
haha
10:00 casually whips out my katana to demonstrate 😂
Excellent analysis and very entertaining
My man's dedication is over the top!
This guy was, by far, my favourite guest you've ever had on this channel. What a riot! 😂
With everything being industrialized these days I love seeing the old school blacksmiths. It's really a work of art.
Fascinating stuff that quenching. So it's sort of like how air creates an isolation pocket around everything, for example window glasses and basically any other material.
this sword you brought is absolutely magnificent and I'd love to learn more about it
I would've loved a review of Sokka making his space sword from Avatar the Last Airbender, curious to see how accurate it was :)
Well it's a 20 second clip but you can see he just pours the melted space rock into a cast of a sword, which is how he explains is not how non bronze swords are forged. But he did quench the entire sword (that was glowing hot) into the water while it was already straight and finished, so that gives it some points.
Use your brain to see how accurate it is! This man educated us on the basics of forging, surely you can retain at least some of that information to judge a short animated clip.
@@evandien9947 I don't think they meant they needed an education about the scene. Rather, they probably want an expert to reach to the scene and praise the show for making a good job because they like The Avatar.
@@evandien9947 so they forge space metal unrealistically on a cartoon?
@@jimmyclimer594 They did better than some movies did! Give them some credit... Lol.
@@jimmyclimer594 nope im saying they forged it mostly correctly. and I'm sure this dude would agree
0:30 Iron Man Forging his suit satisfied me!
This is one of the most enjoyable things on UA-cam.
16:29 - An old and not particularly popular movie from '95 called 'The Hunted' may have done a good job. They show almost the entire process of forging a katana which as far as I remember looked legit (it's been a long time since I watched it though).
Love that movie
Love how this guy's just plain tired of bad scenes in movies. Really refreshing that he's so critical.
5:50 for those who don't know, the color of an object is directly related to its temperature. (black body radiation). If you heat a stone up to 2000F, it's going to be the exact same color as a piece of metal heated up to 2000F. Because of this we can understand the temperature of stars on the other side of the galaxy.
This is something I don't understand. Different materials react to heat differently. Some would just turn to soot at that temperature. Would the soot still have that color? Doesn't the object's innate color matter?
Crucibles would glow though...(the same hue as the blade at that very moment you time-stamped) but the molten steel would be like the sun right in front of you.
@@usmh yeah soot would glow that color, you can take a blowtorch to ash/soot and assuming it doesn't blow away, it will start to glow
@@usmh The innate color depends on what wavelengths it absorbs and what wavelengths it reflects, the glow color depends on what wavelengths it emits. Above a certain temp, 1000 C° or so, it emits so much more light than ambient that the reflected light is like a drop in a bucket, it's there but you just don't notice it.
@@usmh While different materials do indeed react differently to heat, they all emit the same colour at the same temperature (as long as they are glowing hot, off course. Otherwise they are just their regular colour). Sure, you can add colour with chemical reactions occuring at the same time, like fireworks do, but barring all other factors save glowing hot temperature they all have the same colour.
This includes soot. What you see when you look at a fire are glowing hot soot particles. As they move away they cool down and stop emitting light of their own. We see this as the flames disappearing, but in reality it's just the soot particles turning black.
The Hunted knife making scene is badass
This is my favorite one of these so far. He's brutal, love it