I usually flower at 1000 ppfd minimum. I've flowered at up to 1200 without CO2 and no problems but I didn't feel the extra 200 ppfd was helping enough to justify the heat of my light when maxed out.
No good some strins like Barney's and DNA genetics I flicked into flower had it on 900 ppfd they bleached them plants went yellow from light stress. So I stick to lux 28,000 soon as u flick to flower. Better then 900 ppfd on the first day flicking into flower lux better 28,000 or 32,000 lux. Is a lot better garentee then 900 or 850 ppfd tbh
I never understood why low PPFD on seedlings considering in nature they get full sun all day right from sprout. Never had any problem with seedlings outdoor. Isn't it weird?
@@sixmillionsilencedaccounts3517 the natural sun ☀️ make different living organisms develop in the plant .our fake light. Blue light. hps or l.e.d is to strong . The natural sun has balance we can not or ever beat the sun light power.
@@sixmillionsilencedaccounts3517 we can't go beyond 1000 ppfd sometimes. Outside bud grows with 2000+ ppfd and more. Because the sun makes things u can't see. No eye can see. Living organisms and more
@@sixmillionsilencedaccounts3517 Seedlings in nature are usually sprouted during late winter/early spring. That's there introduction to hard light. Throughout spring and summer they grow, during fall and winter they bud.
No offense to Migro but you cannot be considered a legend if you grew your first cannabis plant in 2005.. You are definitely a huge contributor to the industry these days and I applaud your hard work, but I cannot consider you legend yet. Keep up the good work future legend ;)
I try to keep my ppfd at 800. More when I light the boiler for the winter. I don't think the pilot light on water heater adds a whole lot of co2. The fan does need to run at those levels or I get slight tip burn on one plant, but not the others.
The pilot light on your water heater should not be adding any CO2, nor should your heating boiler. Those combustion gases should be going up the flue not into the house. If you have a ventilation issue with your gas and/or oil appliances you are more likely to get Carbon Monoxide rather than Carbon Dioxide.
At 5:17 Shane explains that autos don't need more. They actually require less, because they're on 20hrs - as opposed to photos that are on 12hrs. When photos are in veg, they use the same as autos. 30-45 DLI. But in flower, photos can use up to 60 DLI, whereas autos can stay on 30-45
Shane, DLI this a very under talked about factor. Could you possibly make it more understood for autos on both an 18 and 20 hr light schedule and the ppfd levels that suit them best? I think the DLI is extremely important and would love to know more, thanks
My garden is in flower just flipped 1 week ago and my ppfd is just over a 1000+, must admit that all I use is my mobile phone with the app, is that accurate enough would you say please??.?
oh theres also the other limit of root oxygen, hydro fixes that but in soil it can be a problem. ive heard of using hyperoxygenated water in fields works.
That's why fabric pots are used, but that doesn't mean plants and trees in-ground don't get oxygenated. Same goes for ceramic or plastic pots, as long as the soil has carbon and nitrogen fixation from nature, it'll get enough "oxygen"
@@freedom_born yes pots get o2 via air penetration, theyd die rapidly otherwise. its not the nutrients but literally just gas flow. number 1 cause of houseplant death is waterlogging stopping air from penetrating, which so many non botanists dont know about 😭 but it still limits it: this is why coir outperforms soil for most plants even though coir is such an alien enviroment.
@@OsirusHandle I didn't think I needed to mention drainage, however coir is inert, it's basically hydro. It needs to be constantly irrigated. It needs to almost always be wet. Which isn't recommended for pots in general... unless it's mixed and amended into regular soil. But then it doesn't need to be constantly wet. In any case, drainage goes without question - but there's definitely no problem with soil being oxygenated in fabric pots. Much less ceramic or plastic (provided drainage is good ofc). Coir and hydro are just direct feeding. But soil actually requires that the microbes receive oxygenation. So they can function to breakdown nutrients. Nonetheless, irespective and regardless, *soil produces better terp profiles* that's fact man - and the Sun produces even better terps on top of that. Which hydro can't utilise. You can't just run your dwc setup outside
@@freedom_born My point is that roots directly use oxygen, not just microbes. They have mitochondria like us, as we share the ancestor that evolved them. Logging outside is rarer purely due to higher evaporation rates and easier drainage, however plants would still prefer oxygen levels unobtainable with simple hydrated soil, the paper I saw said rice and wheat performed the best at >40mg/L dissolved o2, but oxygen is only soluble in 20c water to 8 mg/L
@@OsirusHandle Soil and Sun produce better terps than hydro. That's fact man. You can't run dwc setups outside, and the oxygenation outside is significantly better than inside anyway. Unless you're running CO2 tanks. Which is an added hack... and tanks can be also be used for soil indoor grows too. But direct oxygen to the roots doesn't equal better profiles. It equals faster growth.
Cannabis is one of the only plants with a high threshold for light. The Ruderalis (Auto) species has just adapted to lower light levels, but still has a high threshold
This must be why so many grow lights are "weak" and not up to snuff, yall are saying that infoor photoperiods IN FLOWER only need 30W per SqFt?!?! that seems super super low to me! but i dont make lights for profit sooooo....
Most commonly reputable brands like Mars, Viper, Spider etc are renowned for their 100W lights. The TS600 pulls 95+W, and it's meant for a 2x2 !! That's 95+W divided by 2ft by 2ft Most reliable 100W lights are meant for 2x2s !! Idk what you're talking about
Is the cost of CO2 really worth the 30% increase though? I can't see it being worth it. Not only the cost, but the extra worry of temperature and humidity.
CO2 is always worth and it has nothing to do with PAR. CO2 always improves growth. Bruce Bugbee already debunked this myth. 1200ppm of CO2 (higher is useless) all day, no matter if you have 500 or 1000 PPFD.
I been saying it for last year . These companies keep making these led fixtures for 4x4 areas tgey keep making them more n more powerful. There too bright now burning plants.
18/6 Keep vegging... keep lux light power at 22,000. You don't need more power then that in vegging 15,000 to 22,000 is perfection in vegging mode then make sure ur humidity don't drop below 45% humidity I love 60% humidity that give u best fast healthy veg 20,000 lux check the heads and humidity 60% or 55%
Your both legends i use lux meter more accurate then ppfd seeds 10,000 minimum vegging from 12,000 lux to 22,000 lux maximum. The day i flick into flower its 28,000 lux some times i leave it on 28,000 all the way. But i relised by week 6 into flower u can turn up the lux to 34,000 or 36,000. Ive mastard it. Every strain works. Im a king .
Anything less then 10,000 lux. The seed will stretch. If u leave seeds under 7,000 8,000 lux it strach after the seeds hatches. U get me I mastard it all. And cannabis like drought stress the best form of stress for the plant it pumps power and medicine into the plant when no water 💧 a clean up and many things happen I call it fasting for the plant .
@@freedom_born as if LoL 🤣 led companies only have the solution..or have the best information there many ways to the plant .u 🤡. U only have 300 to 600 ppfd vegging lux 12,000 to 22,000 even up to 25,000 after that in vegging mode u get light stress. 🤡
I usually flower at 1000 ppfd minimum. I've flowered at up to 1200 without CO2 and no problems but I didn't feel the extra 200 ppfd was helping enough to justify the heat of my light when maxed out.
Great to hear, thanks for your input
I love it when my two mentors have a chat ❤ Without you, my tomato-game would be non-existent.
Yet another team up! Love the collabs!
🎉🎉🎉BENDICIONES🎉🎉🎉
Without added co2:
Seedling - Veg - Flower
300 - 600 - 900
Good rule of thumb? I think so...
No good some strins like Barney's and DNA genetics I flicked into flower had it on 900 ppfd they bleached them plants went yellow from light stress. So I stick to lux 28,000 soon as u flick to flower. Better then 900 ppfd on the first day flicking into flower lux better 28,000 or 32,000 lux. Is a lot better garentee then 900 or 850 ppfd tbh
I never understood why low PPFD on seedlings considering in nature they get full sun all day right from sprout. Never had any problem with seedlings outdoor. Isn't it weird?
@@sixmillionsilencedaccounts3517 the natural sun ☀️ make different living organisms develop in the plant .our fake light. Blue light. hps or l.e.d is to strong . The natural sun has balance we can not or ever beat the sun light power.
@@sixmillionsilencedaccounts3517 we can't go beyond 1000 ppfd sometimes. Outside bud grows with 2000+ ppfd and more. Because the sun makes things u can't see. No eye can see. Living organisms and more
@@sixmillionsilencedaccounts3517
Seedlings in nature are usually sprouted during late winter/early spring. That's there introduction to hard light. Throughout spring and summer they grow, during fall and winter they bud.
2 legends that keep my cannabis game strong and up to date.
No offense to Migro but you cannot be considered a legend if you grew your first cannabis plant in 2005.. You are definitely a huge contributor to the industry these days and I applaud your hard work, but I cannot consider you legend yet. Keep up the good work future legend ;)
@@beavermonk1 something tells me Shane isn't offended by your opinions. We've all got em. Thanks for sharing yours!
Best info on youtube.!! 🔥🔥
1000ppfd minimum for flower, the sun is 2000+ ppfd in the warmer months.
dumb comment
It’s around 1500 max on summer solstice I thought?
app on my phone shows it way over 2000 ppfd, more like 2,500@@dynasty2146
I try to keep my ppfd at 800. More when I light the boiler for the winter. I don't think the pilot light on water heater adds a whole lot of co2. The fan does need to run at those levels or I get slight tip burn on one plant, but not the others.
The pilot light on your water heater should not be adding any CO2, nor should your heating boiler. Those combustion gases should be going up the flue not into the house. If you have a ventilation issue with your gas and/or oil appliances you are more likely to get Carbon Monoxide rather than Carbon Dioxide.
If Autoflowers receive 40 DLI IN 12 hours will they grow at the same pace as 40 DLI IN 18??
Debacco and migro linked up????? Sheesh 🔥🔥🔥🔥
I like towards the upper end before limit
There is a missing 0 in the DLI calculation at 4:18. Has to be 1.000.000 instead of 100.000. Greetings from Germany
For some reason I thought it was intentional.
maybe it is and i am wrong, but my calculator says it would be more understandable.@@Hal_50
Best light on the market 5 Star
Is there any decent science about autoflower DLI? Do they really make use of higher DLI than photoperiods?
At 5:17 Shane explains that autos don't need more. They actually require less, because they're on 20hrs - as opposed to photos that are on 12hrs.
When photos are in veg, they use the same as autos. 30-45 DLI. But in flower, photos can use up to 60 DLI, whereas autos can stay on 30-45
Hi, here is my view on PAR intensity for Autos: ua-cam.com/video/uZuD4iylmzM/v-deo.html
Shane, DLI this a very under talked about factor. Could you possibly make it more understood for autos on both an 18 and 20 hr light schedule and the ppfd levels that suit them best? I think the DLI is extremely important and would love to know more, thanks
check out this video: ua-cam.com/video/uZuD4iylmzM/v-deo.htmlsi=igDN-eWePpkx-p6q
My garden is in flower just flipped 1 week ago and my ppfd is just over a 1000+, must admit that all I use is my mobile phone with the app, is that accurate enough would you say please??.?
oh theres also the other limit of root oxygen, hydro fixes that but in soil it can be a problem. ive heard of using hyperoxygenated water in fields works.
That's why fabric pots are used, but that doesn't mean plants and trees in-ground don't get oxygenated.
Same goes for ceramic or plastic pots, as long as the soil has carbon and nitrogen fixation from nature, it'll get enough "oxygen"
@@freedom_born yes pots get o2 via air penetration, theyd die rapidly otherwise. its not the nutrients but literally just gas flow. number 1 cause of houseplant death is waterlogging stopping air from penetrating, which so many non botanists dont know about 😭 but it still limits it: this is why coir outperforms soil for most plants even though coir is such an alien enviroment.
@@OsirusHandle
I didn't think I needed to mention drainage, however coir is inert, it's basically hydro. It needs to be constantly irrigated. It needs to almost always be wet. Which isn't recommended for pots in general... unless it's mixed and amended into regular soil. But then it doesn't need to be constantly wet.
In any case, drainage goes without question - but there's definitely no problem with soil being oxygenated in fabric pots. Much less ceramic or plastic (provided drainage is good ofc). Coir and hydro are just direct feeding. But soil actually requires that the microbes receive oxygenation. So they can function to breakdown nutrients.
Nonetheless, irespective and regardless, *soil produces better terp profiles* that's fact man - and the Sun produces even better terps on top of that. Which hydro can't utilise. You can't just run your dwc setup outside
@@freedom_born My point is that roots directly use oxygen, not just microbes. They have mitochondria like us, as we share the ancestor that evolved them. Logging outside is rarer purely due to higher evaporation rates and easier drainage, however plants would still prefer oxygen levels unobtainable with simple hydrated soil, the paper I saw said rice and wheat performed the best at >40mg/L dissolved o2, but oxygen is only soluble in 20c water to 8 mg/L
@@OsirusHandle
Soil and Sun produce better terps than hydro. That's fact man.
You can't run dwc setups outside, and the oxygenation outside is significantly better than inside anyway. Unless you're running CO2 tanks. Which is an added hack... and tanks can be also be used for soil indoor grows too. But direct oxygen to the roots doesn't equal better profiles. It equals faster growth.
@MIGRO Does the plant need a certain amount of time in the dark to "reset" the DLI?
For Autos it is thought about 4 hours dark minimum, link to related short here: ua-cam.com/users/shortsWbgeu3gifqo
Dr Bugbee is currently studying NLI - Night Light Interval(s).
As opposed to DLI.
thanks!!
🤘
ig this depends on the plant but also probably similar for others
Cannabis is one of the only plants with a high threshold for light. The Ruderalis (Auto) species has just adapted to lower light levels, but still has a high threshold
This must be why so many grow lights are "weak" and not up to snuff, yall are saying that infoor photoperiods IN FLOWER only need 30W per SqFt?!?! that seems super super low to me!
but i dont make lights for profit sooooo....
Most commonly reputable brands like Mars, Viper, Spider etc are renowned for their 100W lights. The TS600 pulls 95+W, and it's meant for a 2x2 !! That's 95+W divided by 2ft by 2ft
Most reliable 100W lights are meant for 2x2s !!
Idk what you're talking about
Groplannar 150w for 50$
@@freedom_born
Is the cost of CO2 really worth the 30% increase though? I can't see it being worth it. Not only the cost, but the extra worry of temperature and humidity.
Having co2 allows very high PPFD which not only increases yield but overall plant health which = more cannabanoids
Air from outside is the best CO2. So use a inline fan to bring air from outside into ur grow room. Forget CO2 bags
CO2 is always worth and it has nothing to do with PAR. CO2 always improves growth. Bruce Bugbee already debunked this myth. 1200ppm of CO2 (higher is useless) all day, no matter if you have 500 or 1000 PPFD.
@sixmillionsilencedaccounts3517 what's the cost of having an actual system?
@@Irish_qatari1982 Filter that air if you can.
What about cactus ? Whats max micromul
cactus loads co2 only at night. No need for elevated levels.
Autoflowers will be happy with 1000 par and 1500 ppm co2???
1000 µmols and 1200 ppm co2, or 900 µmols and 1000 ppm co2.
Tomacco isn't my last name. 😬
is it your first name
@@OsirusHandle 😆
Please stop using high pressure sodium lights! LED is the way to go.
I been saying it for last year . These companies keep making these led fixtures for 4x4 areas tgey keep making them more n more powerful. There too bright now burning plants.
Is there more or less light available outside?
If you don't buy lights with dimmer and understand distance you'll be complaining about Leaf burn
18/6 Keep vegging... keep lux light power at 22,000. You don't need more power then that in vegging 15,000 to 22,000 is perfection in vegging mode then make sure ur humidity don't drop below 45% humidity I love 60% humidity that give u best fast healthy veg 20,000 lux check the heads and humidity 60% or 55%
@@Irish_qatari1982
Lol nobody really talks in LUX my man. Ppf(d) is the usual standard
Your both legends i use lux meter more accurate then ppfd seeds 10,000 minimum vegging from 12,000 lux to 22,000 lux maximum. The day i flick into flower its 28,000 lux some times i leave it on 28,000 all the way. But i relised by week 6 into flower u can turn up the lux to 34,000 or 36,000. Ive mastard it. Every strain works. Im a king .
Anything less then 10,000 lux. The seed will stretch. If u leave seeds under 7,000 8,000 lux it strach after the seeds hatches. U get me I mastard it all. And cannabis like drought stress the best form of stress for the plant it pumps power and medicine into the plant when no water 💧 a clean up and many things happen I call it fasting for the plant .
Lol well King, us commoners use PPFD as a standard of measurement. Perhaps you could learn a thing or two from the "common folk"
*Be Humble, Sit Down*
@@freedom_born lux more accurate
Thanks for sharing
@@freedom_born as if LoL 🤣 led companies only have the solution..or have the best information there many ways to the plant .u 🤡. U only have 300 to 600 ppfd vegging lux 12,000 to 22,000 even up to 25,000 after that in vegging mode u get light stress. 🤡
Matt and Shane collabs wicked stuff 🌿🔥🇬🇧🫡