Bill Johnson's Theology and Movement Examined Biblically.
Вставка
- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- Come with an open mind and an open Bible. We will try to really understand what's going on with this movement, what's up with their theology and how we ought to respond to it.
Hey Mike, I thought that this was one of the best and most thoughtful presentations on this subject. You did a super good job at not jumping on the "condemnation bandwagon" or the "defending the person bandwagon". I actually went to the School of Ministry at Bethel (I even met my wife there) and your thoughts about their teachings and theology are pretty spot on. I think that the theological concerns that you made mention of are extremely valid and ones that I share myself. Having a well-rounded theology is a major weakness and needs to be addressed there. I believe that true biblical and spiritual authority comes from actually understanding the meaning and the authorial intent of the text. Although God is faithful to his Word and so many amazing things have happened and are happening (my life was dramtically changed after being there) being correctly grounded in the Word is still paramount and you did a great job at making that seen.
"Condemnation bandwagon"? Is that what it is called when those in the body of Christ call out heretics? Let's be clear about one thing... Any- and I mean ANY- gospel being preached which is not scriptural is to be red-flagged. This over-sensitivity that has come over the contemporary church is causing all sorts of confusion. What is wrong is wrong. And if a ministry is unwilling to abide by scripture, unwilling to repent for misguiding people and unwilling to change then we are to have nothing to do with it. If you think that is harsh, read what God is capable of doing in that very same bible that those in the NAR love to quote healing scriptures from.
We are under a new covenant but God has never changed. It's a shame that those who stand for the truth are called "judgmental", but I would be happy to be labeled if it means that somebody out there hears what the Word of God ACTUALLY says. I say this all in love, but I am unwilling to be guilted for calling a spade a spade- which in this case is- a HERETIC. Remember that in Revelation Jesus says "'Come out of her, my people,' so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues..." Rev 18:4
Are there people in these misguided ministries who are saved? Yes, I'm sure! But as they grow and learn that they are a part of something unscriptural they are to leave that church.
God bless you. Stay awake and alert.
Peace to you.
I agree except I doubt if people who continue to follow this nonsense will be saved.
You have to pay a price if you're a truth teller. Prepare to be lonely, not one of the most popular. We are commanded to enter in through the strait gate, for wide is the gate & broad is the way of destruction, & many are they who enter in through it. Too many want to keep their itching ears, sins, etc., most likely you will be like one crying in the wilderness if you are willing to stand for that truth. If you have that desire to walk a separated life of truth burning inside you, you won't give it up easily! 1John 1:6, Galations 2:14, Ephesians 5:7-14,
I agree with the last comment wholeheartedly.
My husband and I visited Bethel a few years back. We found the people very warm and accepting but there wasn’t the clarity in their preaching that I wanted to see; theology took a back seat to the experiential. We also visited their Healing Room and thought it seemed a bit chaotic and weird. We had visited healing rooms in Santa Barbara and Ventura so we had some idea of what to expect. We also are from Vineyard so healing prayer is part of our theology already. I totally agree with your take on fake prophecies from the heart of man not God. And the pressure some people put on people receiving healing prayer to act as though they’ve been healed when they don’t know if healing has really happened. Seems like when Jesus healed people there was little doubt. Leppers, blind, crippled: it was pretty obvious healing had occurred.
Mike I wanted to make sure that you saw this comment and I hope you do. Please let me know that you do because I think it is a very important. My anointing is with revival. Oh I'm always focused on it and one day I had a thought. As course the devil is sneaky and so are his people and he will aid them to get them where they need to be. So I thought how is he the devil going to get people and Bethel church was in the forefront of my mind along with a couple other churches to Gods end time revival? I mean if a revival is starting up and they're informed by satan about this of course they think it's God. Or it has broke out. They can't just come and bust the way in the doors like "I'm Bill Johnson let me in here"!! So with the Holy Spirit I started meditating on this. I thought well things are going to have to happen, circumstances to get them to the area where it would first breakout. And of course the devil is not the one and only sovereign God. So he has got to get some people like Bill Johnson's churches in places where he thinks might be hotspots to break out in revival. Of course I had variables in my mind that could probly happen. Well guess what happened those fires broke out in Santa Rosa California totally took that place down. They have taken the property away from those people. Well guess what's happened now? Redding California is having fires and I bet you they end up taking the property of that church. Or they have to rebuild something small and walkie so they're going to put satellite churches all over the place!!!!!! I understand they're in or connected with a whole mess of other churches. But they're going toi want to have their own spot where nobody can kick him out of it.
Tozer said that almost every apostasy in the church can be traced back to an overemphasis on one of God's attributes to the neglect of all the rest.
Ok. When the innumerable multitudes came to be healed...Jesus should have just ministered healing to 2 or 3 And moved on to something else, Right? We don't want to spend too much time preaching Christ the Healer. Tough luck for all the sick among us.
H Owen
Amen
Love is Never Sin. You forget that Paul mentions a fellow worker who died due to illness. A focus on one aspect of God to the exclusion of all others always leads to error.
@@iceman4660
I am not particularly absent - minded , or forgetful : I just don't post every healing verse and its teaching with the 200+ related verses in every comment I make.
So , you think you have a " gotcha moment " here that is gonna make Prophet & Theologian Emeritus Jimmy de Lopst flew into a cave for the rest of his fleeing shadow life.
We ministers are not responsible for the health of anyone but ourselves and minor children. Paul can not be held responsible for another man's body: He spent his whole life preaching ALL the counsel of God: it is up to his hearers & acquaintance to Attend onto those words.
@@loveisneverasin9092 i didn't assume you were absent minded. I was just making the point that not all Christians are healed or don't get sick.
I believe in healing but i don't believe its always in God's perfect will for it to occur.
This is, hands down, the most accurate and even-handed analysis of Bill Johnson and Bethel Church that I have heard anywhere. I have listened to dozens of presentations, and yours is the only one that got to the heart of the matter, both theologically and methodologically. Thanks for your excellent work.
Thank you John
I'm curious about your thoughts regarding all of those false prophecies. Deuteronomy 13 and 18 both point to the condemnation of prophets who prophesied either inaccurately in the name of Yahweh or accurately in the name of a false god. Do all of the failed prophecies through Bethel Church disqualify them from being considered prophets in any right? It seems that the scriptural standard for prophecy is 100% accuracy.
@@mrjohnpdudley That is a very good point and one I'm not 100% certain of the answer for but I believe that the line of demarcation is the day of Pentacost. Jesus said it was better for him to go than to stay, because when he ascended, the Holy Spirit would come - to all believers and not just to a few old testament people a few times. It could be argued that we also now have the scriptures to help us judge as well as the Holy Spirit, but before Pentacost, there was neither to help guide someone in discerning and anyone who claimed to be a prophet back then had none of these checks and balances. Please don't forget that Paul told us to in 1 Corinthians 14:39...
King James Version
Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
New King James Version
Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues.
American Standard Version
Wherefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
Berean Study Bible
So, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
Just my 2 cents...you will need to ask the Holy Spirit to assist you in this matter.
Bill wife died 2022 of cancer may be you are wrong the way you criticize his methods
Why u don't ask him could be the holy spirit work on him
I had a friend who went to Bethel school then came back home a few years later. Ran into him in a coffee shop and he could tell I wasn't doing good and offered to pray for me. Then he prophesied. Everything he said was the exact opposite, no exaggerating, literally the exact opposite of what God had been telling me which had been confirmed with others. He was obviously not prophesying but speaking from his own soul, emotions, etc. It was all positive feel good, gods going to make it easy for you in this season.
God had already told me I was going to enter a difficult season and I would face many trials, that many would not understand, but He would be with me. Time bore out the true word of God which confirmed he wasn't speaking from God. But the confidence on his face was unsettling, and I knew at the time it wasn't from God. I've seen a lot of this from Bethel.
I have also seen a lot from Bethel, and I have seen many young people LEARN to hear the voice of God by practice. My nephew went to the school of ministry and now prophesies and speaks words of knowledge very accurately. He does this because he has put the work in and has taken the necessary risk. My personal experience with Bethel students has been hit and miss, but I understand what is actually going on. You do not.
That is very scary, I am sorry for your experience. I have had a VERY similar experience as well. I had a friend who went to their school of supernatural, prayed and prophesied over me & it was opposing to what God had been revealing to me in that time.
I truly believe that in such situations, God wants us to see how discerning we are called to be as believers! Resting in HIS assurance, even before prophetic word, THAT SHOULD COME FROM HIM! But testing all things and looking to Him and His word first.
They always have to shove the word "season" everywhere
It IS unsettling. That's a really good way to say it. Sometimes lies seem so blatant to me, and then I see the people around me eating it up and wonder if I'm crazy. I have noticed recently, and been deeply blessed, to realize that lies I saw years ago are being more publicly exposed. It really encourages me that God *does* give discernment when I rely on Him to do so instead of relying on other people.
@@anival9576 Dealing with inaccurate prophesies in not "unsettling" if you live in a culture training people to test what is spoken. It is a dual responsibility on the speaker AND the hearer. When you place an expectation on students to get it right 100% of the time, and resort to justifying it with OT slop, you are making a huge mistake. LIBERTY requires freedom to make mistakes. Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is FREEDOM.
For years I have been in bondage to guilt for not having enough faith to believe in healing every time for every one and listening to this has set me free! Thankyou so much for opening my eyes to what scripture really says.
@pennycrute814 I am so sorry you’ve experienced guilt over not being healed. The people who most helped bring me to Christ believe in complete miraculous healing by the blood of Jesus, anointing oil, deliverance, cutting souls ties, and denouncing illness. I’ve had epilepsy for 20+ years and now Parkinson’s. They cringe when I speak those words out loud because they believe it’s giving power to them. At the same time, they declare they won’t get something (cancer, Covid) but when they do never take back what they stated.
I’m a strong believer in Christ healing us when it’s His will. But I also accept that may not always happen and if it does not, it’s not because I lack faith. It’s because I lack the total understanding of God’s plan, which we all do. I’ve been healed miraculously and not been healed. I’m content knowing one day I will be with Him and glorified in my new body. I still pray for healing, but according to His will not my own. I hope you too have been able to find peace and refuge even when we suffer. God bless you!
Yeah. That's the trap.
So don't feel guilty and realize eternal salvation we have in Jesus His work done on the cross is the greatest first huge accomplishment that we Christians get to us believing and is the costly big diamond gift to us freely bestowed when we accepted Him believing then . No guilt necessary and since actually whenever we pass from here the true experience in eternity is much better than being down here now ..as God calls us home .
Mike, I struggled with not being angry at Bill's teaching. Your heart and patience is contagious. Your balanced and loving approach convicted me. Thank you for not only teaching correct theology but also for showing the fruit of the spirit as you teach us. God bless you.
Do you "struggle" with those who think God is purposefully afflicting people with sickness as a matter of habit? That healing is just an afterthought or a remote possibility depending on God's mood? Lol. It is grossly hypocritical to be outraged at Bill's "God always wants to heal" and not outraged at the deplorable failure of the church to align with the reality of Jesus's healing ministry.
Mike is an arrogant carnal minded pharisee. People who are not spirit filled cannot even begin to understand scripture. The arrogance is overwhelming. Here are people who do literally nothing for the Kingdom of God that is productive trying to judge those who are literally a million times more productive for god's Kingdom and show the heart and the love of God a million times more than this arrogant pompous carnal minded pharisee.
@@lightlover33 You are a 100% accurate and rightly point out Jesus perspective. Here is the bottom line... If you are not operating in the power of God by the biblical scriptural miracles and you attempt to judge those who are operating by the power of God, You are nothing more than a carnal minded pharisee. People like Mike are PHILOSOPHERS when it comes to The Bible. The relationship is an intellectual one instead of heart and spirit. They cover their own spiritual impotence by trying to arrogantly point out flaws of others when really they miss the heart of the issue altogether.
@@i-primeproductions1517 he clearly stated he has no problem with healing ministry. The problem is bill's flaws in his theology and you can't turn a blind eye and say I only accept the truth and ignore the lies. Lies mixed in truths or bending the truth should be rejected.
@@lightlover33if a church is teaching people are sick out of God's habit that is wrong. However if a church is preaching everyone will prosper physically in this life, it's equally as wrong. And it doesn't make one better. this is a fallen world such things will happen. Can't be thinking about life as this is our best life and we shall heal automatically and financially prosper. The joy is about our life in his presence. You can take some verses to make it fit the criteria but when you take the full bible it never said anyone and everyone would be healed physically.
I'm only at minute 47 and im already so HAPPY I could cry. I am a person with a back issue that is visible when I walk. Ive been in hundreds of environments just like this where prayer equals instant healing so people can clap. I cannot tell you the PRESSURE that puts on me. I stopped going for prayer cuz the PRESSURE makes me feel so bad afterwards... you know...cuz there MUST BE SOMETHING WRONG with me or in my life since I didn't get healed. It's crushing!!! I actually left this movement becuase of things like this.
Since then ivs been trying to understand where it's off and get simplified language to describe it!!!
THANK YOU SO MUCH for the lists of theology and practices and why they are off. I know something is off with Bethel and Jesus Culture but I couldn't tell another why with succinct definition and language. I SO APPRECIATE you digging thro the material to tell us this. So Grateful !!! Bless you.
It is curious to hear James White's debates with noted preachers and theologians because I have legitimate preachers and theologians to listen. I feel pity for James White as he is so in error, arrogant and angry.
John MacArthur is egotistical and full of Scriptural distortions. Also, full of hate.
I was part of a church for 5 years that was super keen on Bethel and their practises. I moved away for work but still fully trusted that they were following biblical principles and trusted that church. A few months later my then boyfriend (now husband) shared this video and it radically changed my views. I now consider myself to be evangelical instead of hyper charismatic Pentecostal. I have said to him many times since then how glad I am that I watched this video. I have watched many more of your videos since then and it has been so good getting decent biblical teaching. Thank you so much for your ministry and for making this video ❤️
glad you found truth
So happy for you! I consider myself just Christian. I don’t attach manmade theology to that. I would say born again, because Jesus preached those words. But this NAR stuff is concerning. So is WOF.
@@tracykarol
...the Word of Faith is from the Bible , Tracy ...Romans 10:8 - Paul said he Preaches the " Word of Faith " !
... So it is Not a Biblical viewpoint to be against this...
... soooo many are Proud to be telling us how they Stomped out of a Full Gospel Situation...but where are you now ?
... are you REALLY better off ... a " Super Chicken " now ?
...here is a Problem with what you did : Whom are you going to call - like from the ER at 3:00 in the Morning - to pray the Prayer of Faith for you on your Sickbed now , Honeybunch ?
... I don't see what you can do know - No one in your current place understands Divine Healing : that is a BIG problem!
@@jamesdelopst4699 The Evangelical church I go to now teaches the full gospel (I just complete a course there on sharing the full gospel with non-believers), and it doesn't teach practices that are unbiblical, so I fully believe that I am better off. We systematically go through books of the bible, and there are plenty of people there who would pray for me at 3am if I needed it. I am learning more about God and the Bible than I did at my old church. I still participate in charismatic practices (including praying for divine healing). I just no longer take part in the hyper charismatic things that aren't taught in the bible. I hope this helps. May God bless you and help you to calm down a little bit.
An incredible effort to explain the fundamentals of Bethel's theology, and pointing out where it matches scriptures and where it deviates from scriptures. Mike, this is truly the work of a shepherd, a teacher who knows he will be accountable for what he has taught. I had a lot of respect for your work, this one 10x it. Thank you.
I grew up in the church. I'm a PK and walked away from my faith for a loooonnnnggg time due to burn out, sin ect. Anyway, you have encouraged me to study my Bible and get to know Jeusus (the Jesus of scripture) you will never know the effect you've had on my mind and heart. I appreciate you very much. Also, one time this pastor stayed in my room and read my journal then "prophesied " over me the next day... nott knowing I was writing a fiction in that journal... it had nothing true in it. 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️ yeah, the church messed me up a lot that's just one of many stories lol . Again, thank you for your hours and hours of research and diligence. I truly appreciate you teaching the scripture and the youtubers you've recommended also. The first video I saw of yours was actually the Ravi Zacharias video and as someone who lived through something similar I truly appreciated the care and thought and heart you put into that. The family was most assuredly victims also. 💔 your awareness and compassion for how you handled that is why I kept watching you. God bless all you are doing brother.
It is amazing when I see people defend Ravi. Mike's video on that was a breath of fresh air. God bless you and may you continue to grow closer to Christ!
100% a breath of fresh air I agree that's why I kept watching him. Hes honest and Biblical. I cant read people defending Ravi either I get it. Thank you. I hope you grow in Christ also.
Sit with the lord 🙏
Hi Kayla. As a PK I have also struggled with my faith. Strangely it was my father that seemed to actively discourage me in my faith as a teenager. Yet it was his foundation that led to to be a follower of Jesus. I am a big fan of Tim Mackie at the moment because of his enthusiasm for Jesus and the Bible. His teaching on the wheat and the tares from Matthew was really helpful. Ultimately though everywhere is a mission field and we must find a place where we can serve.
Mike, this was my first introduction to you and your ministry. I was very impressed by the love, kindness and gentleness you exemplified in sharing this examination of Bill Johnson's theology. I was also impressed by the level of preparation it took to deliver this. Thank you!
Bilj Johnson is, ss the rest of us Spirit filled believers are doing the good works prepared beforehand for us to walk in. Bless you Bill and bless you finger pointing potentials. May you all find Jesus and live the way He did not matter the criticism you may face. All hail King Yeshua
@@NaylorLaurie Absolutely. God bless Bill Johnson as he faces persecution from the church, the demonic assault on anyone operating in the Spirit and bringing the church to a new level of faith. And God help all those who take the dreck of Mike and have no rebuttal as if none exists. The indoctrination of minimalism is a powerful drug in the church to those who dont know better.
If we assume that Jesus Christ (his corpse) after the crucifixion was eaten by his followers, we can explain not only the Christian cannibalistic mysticism, but also many other mysteries of Christianity.
The rituals of the Eucharist are similar to the ceremonies of the true cannibals
Non-Christians have always been confused by the rituals that simulate eating the body of Jesus Christ (Joshua from Nazareth, the Christian prophet, worshiped as a god or god’s son) or drinking his blood.
While eating special consecrated wafers or drinking wine, Catholics, the Orthodox and many other Christians imagine that these are the body and blood of their prophet (or god). Most Christians imagine that by doing this they get closer to their god, acquire a kind of divinity themselves, and some of them even fall into ecstasy.
These rituals by their form and meaning remind of the rites of many known cannibalistic cultures - the true cannibals ate people (perhaps they are still doing this in some regions of Africa and Asia) not because they were starving, but because they believed that by eating up a man or a certain part of his body they would overtake his power and courage.
In almost the same way, Christians eat the imaginary body and blood of Jesus Christ not because they are hungry, but because they want to obtain sacredness, unity with Jesus Christ, who has resurrected (as they believe), and to consolidate the Christian solidarity.
It is still not known what actually happened to the body of Jesus Christ
To the fact that the corpse of Jesus Christ disappeared from the tomb where it was left till the end of the Sabbath, Christians refer as a miracle, they present it as the proof of their prophet’s divinity or even his later resurrection. It is a strange argument - apparently, nobody who could not be interested in proving Christ’s divinity guarded the tomb (it will be considered later in this article), so the corpse could have been taken away and transported to another burial place.
Didn’t the scene of the ‘Last supper’ imply an order to eat up Jesus’ body after his death?
The so-called ‘Last supper’, which took place immediately before the Christ’s arrest and crucifixion, is described in several places of the New Testament. During it, Jesus Christ ordered his disciples to eat bread and to drink wine and suggested that these were his body and blood.
The Eucharist has its origins in the ‘Last supper’; however, it looks as if Jesus Christ had in his mind his own true flesh and blood when he spoke about the bread and wine during the ‘Last supper’.
The following thoughts of Jesus Christ are cited in the Gospel according to John:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
John:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
John:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
John:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
John:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
(John, 6, 53-58)
Christian theologians usually interpret this as a metaphor. Such an interpretation corresponds best with the interests of Christianity, but the words by no means sound metaphorically in the original text of the Gospel.
If Jesus Christ perceived his body and blood as a meal that had to be eaten, then it seems that the scene of the ‘Last supper’ - is nothing but the last reminder to the followers about their obligation to eat up their teacher’s body.
It is quite probable that Jesus Christ was eaten by his followers
As we can infer from the biblical texts, the tomb where Christ’s body was stored was not guarded. True, the Gospel according to Matthew claims that in order to prevent the corpse of Jesus Christ from being stolen from the tomb, the next day after the crucifixion chief Jewish priests and Pharisees assembled in front of Pilate and asked him to post a guard to secure the tomb, and when Pilot told them, - ‘You have a guard…’ - they put (their?) guards at the tomb and sealed the stone. (Matthew, 27, 62-66)
This episode does not seem to be a testimony by some Christ’s contemporary, but it rather looks as a fake, which was grafted into the Gospel by a person who was not familiar with the Jewish religion and culture, because the events took place during the Sabbath, and any work (sealing the tomb and possibly posting the guard or even standing on guard) was then a serious crime against the Jewish religion.
Even the mother of the prophet and his (apparently) girlfriend or wife Mary Magdalene did not dare even to make preparations for the pending burial ceremony - there is little doubt that that nobody guarded the tomb until the Saturday sunset.
Even on the Sunday morning when the two Maries came to the tomb, they found only one man, who tried to convince them that Jesus Christ had resurrected (or two men according to Luke and John). So, most probably none of Christ’s enemies had guarded the tomb at all.
The owner of the tomb, Joseph from Arimathea, apparently was Christ’s disciple, so in fact the followers of the Christian prophet could have done with his corpse whatever they wanted, and they could have eaten the body as well.
If the body of Jesus Christ had actually disappeared during the cannibalistic party of his disciples, it is quite natural that they preserved their secret. The disclosure of such secret would not only have discredited the then still emerging Christianity, but also Jews, who did not tolerate cannibalism, would have executed all the participants of the last feast. Anyway, even if somebody of the initiated had blurted it out, nobody believed him.
Having assumed that Jesus Christ was eaten, many myths and rites of Christianity do not seem strange and mysterious any more
As it was mentioned above, the scene of the ‘Last supper’ acquires sense. Its purpose is to persuade Christ’s disciples that they will have to eat the flesh of their teacher and to drink his blood and to convince the ‘apostles’ that by doing this they will overtake Christ’s divinity.
Then, there appears to be much more sense in many other aspects of Christianity, including the myth about the resurrection of Jesus Christ itself.
The mysticism of the ‘holy’ Grail
Christians attach great importance to the chalice from which Jesus Christ was drinking during the ‘Last supper’ and into which, according to Robert from Boron, Joseph from Arimathea later collected Christ’s blood.
Christians think that the Grail has various magic powers, and, in order to make use of them, one has to drink from it - thus, in some way one has to drink the true blood of Jesus Christ.
It seems that most probably Joseph had a point in collecting Christ’s blood into a chalice, and that possibly it was used for drinking shortly after Christ’s death, and that the Christian fantasies related to wine-drinking during religious rituals are repetitions of a horrible ceremony that took place almost two thousand years ago.
The myth about the Resurrection
Resurrection was invented long before Christians. There had been many religions that had a god who died and resurrected periodically. Various rites of sacrifice were related to the resurrection of one or another god and the offerings - usually domestic animals - were frequently eaten by the participants of the mysteries.
Did not Jesus Christ imagine his death and resurrection in a similar way - that he would resurrect in his disciples who would have eaten his flesh and would have drunk his blood? According to ‘Saint’ John, Jesus Christ explained: ‘The one who eats my flesh and drinks my blood resides in me, and I in him’. (John, 6, 56; italics are mine, G.Š.)
The Eucharist
Having assumed that the first Eucharist was not symbolic, but real and took place not before Christ’s death, but on the following night, the ritual itself appears in a completely different light - it is clear now how the rite managed to unite Christians.
After all, nothing has such power of uniting people as a common secret or crime. When people have performed religious rituals that others consider to be inhuman or even criminal, they feel initiated, special different from others.
Brother, I am a pastor who has a pentecostal/charismatic/deeper life background and ministry. This was one of the most carefully crafted, insightful and encouraging presentations. Thank you and I would love to interact through chat. Keep up the good work.
I actually got saved in a church that follows bethels teachings. As a new Christian I had no idea of the teachings or practices. Although, when I met my husband he was very biblically sound and had training and knowledge in the scriptures. Once I watched “American gospel” I was in shock of the differences in what bethel teaches and what the actual whole Bible teaches. It was confusing and I searched out the truth for myself and found MASSIVE discrepancies. It’s scary and sad and confusing for baby Christians. 😞
..what do you think of the 100,000 { One Hundred Thousand } Baptist Churches that deny everything Supernatural - Tongues...Divine Healing...Miracles : are all those Churches of the devil, too ??
There is such a thing as the Essentials of being a Christian...and then the Non - Essentials : Charismatic and Baptist Churches all agree on the Essentials - so neither is of the devil.
As far as I know Baptist churches don't deny healing, just don't give a person that calls him or herself a healer credit for it.
I was a follower of Bill Johnson for years. Honestly, it was really good for a time. So I appreciate more than you know that you aren’t slandering or attacking him or this movement. Instead you’re presenting sound theology and letting it speak for itself. The scriptures is its own best defense. I am now in a place that God is expanding my view of Him to include the whole Bible and its sovereignty and infallibility. Sola scriptura. I spend my days studying systematically and listening to Paul Washer, and you cover topics like this in love. So, thank you for your uncompromising diligence to The Word. 🙏🏻
Amen sister! ♥️🙏🏽
@Dean Agnor Interesting observations, and opinions! I would have labeled camps like progressive Christianity as more of the pseudo intellectuals. I don’t have in person local experience here, but online I follow numerous reformed churches, and ministries. And I don’t find them to be legalistic, or pseudo intellectual. But rather I find them to be the most middle ground, and level headed, and more fair about their discussions of everything. I have seen very rigid churches, but they didn’t identify as reformed. Now that I think of it, they identified as Baptist. Lol!
And I only say that I can’t say for in person reformed churches, because I have been spending a lot of years now just trying to find a home church. Because my area is very very dense with prosperity gospel, and WoF theologies. The very few I’ve found that weren’t, were …. Legalistic. But none of them were reformed. And reformed has been what I’ve ideally sought out, based off of ministries I see in other states. They seem to have it going the most correct direction, of both valuing the people, and valuing God’s truth. And not sacrificing on either.
So I’m curious where your opinions have originated? And what you have witnessed that led you to your conclusion? Isn’t it interesting that I’m different areas, our churches issues seem to be under different names? I find that interesting! So please do tell, if you have a moment. :)
@Dean Agnor I came from CA when I was a little kid, and moved to Billings Montana. And that has been my entire church experience location. If I don’t count when I traveled on business, or my active duty time in the military. Where I broadly sampled all different types of denominations, lol! I literally went to a different church almost every week on bases, because I found the dramatic difference of cultures to be so absolutely wonderful! Most of this was in the south, where the culture abs churches were very different from here. My favorite one down there was a gospel church! Where it was mostly a black community. It was so fun there!
But here in Montana, in the largest city, we have a huge issue with the prosperity gospel, and word of faith movement, and NAR type theologies. Their god is just a mystical vending machine, that they whole heartedly believe they can and should boss around. They have no sense of theology, and they feed off whatever the leaders tell them. Ignorantly following the desires of men, while telling themselves it’s the will of God. I have a plethora from my life of horrible experiences with these people, and their churches. And the legalism they instill along with it. Especially the WoF folks. I could talk all day and night about the very unbiblical things I’ve seen there, and the abuse of the congregants. But I’ll save you the excess of words, and you can just ask me about anything you would like to know about. :)
Your background is quite interesting to hear! So so different from mine! I can understand how being raised in that real legalistic environment would chase you away, and probably leave a bad taste for many years. And I can understand why u went to the other end of the pendulum with swinging out to a Bethel styled church. I understand because I’ve been seriously hurt by churches many times too, and it really does make your heart want to go far far away from it. That’s fair.
With what you said about your Baptist legalistic church experiences, I felt like you were trying to avoid just directly saying what happened. And that’s ok! But if you would like to tell me about it, I would like to listen. I think we can learn from each other’s church experiences, and maybe avoid more hurting in the Body, through sharing these things in a productive, solution intending environment.
It’s so interesting to me that we have a lot of similarities from our past churches. But we could not have had them in more polar opposite denominations. That’s a really big pendulum! But very similar abuses within those completely different churches.
@Dean Agnor Of course friend! I’m always open to talking. :) With the story you just walked me through, I do see some points of concern for me. And this is speaking as someone who came out of being raised mostly in those churches. You said as a youth, you went away to something, maybe a youth retreat or camp, you had some big experiential thing happen, which you kids identified as the HS moving. My concern is that kids are very very susceptible to being influenced. You should have had a mature Christian adult with you, to help bring those experiences to scripture, and to test every spirit according to God’s commands. Before anyone got all excited, and decided on a verdict, it should have been heavily scrutinized by the Word, to see if it was from God, or something else.
Secondly, the way you describe these “HS experiences”…. Scares me. It truly scares me brother. I spent 10+ years also in New Age. And what your describing to me, sounds just like a specific spirit encounter we all had in New Age. It is very strong, it is very “refreshing”, it does sort of charge you up and give you more strength. But as I learned many years later… it wasn’t from God. And just as it once built me up, while I was serving it, it also tore me down when I began to deny it. There are many many dangerous spirits, and practices that invoke them. And I say that as someone who has been there, done that, owned 10 of the T-shirt’s! Lol!
I’m trying to be very careful here with my words. I don’t want to call you anything, or label you anything, because I know that’s hurtful and offensive, and won’t help the conversation. But I know what I would call my experiences, after I began to read my Bible in full context, in order. The Bible does tell me of a couple rare situations, where similar experiences occurred, and it wasn’t from God in scripture.
So I guess, the root question here, that we want to really get down to. Is, do you put all your faith and truth into believing the inherency of Scripture? Do you submit to the absolute non negotiables that God has said? The salvific foundations of the faith. I’m not talking about anything secondary, or tertiary. It’s ok to disagree on non salvific topics. But my concern here for you brother, is it seems that you have trusted a spirit to be the HS, without truly testing it. To be very blunt.
There is nothing wrong with prosperity, nothing at all! But it’s not part of the foundational Gospel message, that God has given us. I’m horrible at quoting scripture exactly by number, so forgive me. But God says that the church will always have the poor, and the rich. How can the church always have both within the Body, if it’s Gods will for all believers to prosper? Or the scriptures that guarantee suffering for anyone who follows Christ? Prospering, and suffering are nearly opposites. So how might you reconcile scriptures like those, to the prosperity gospel being foundational in your beliefs?
God bless brother. I hope my blunt words have reached you with love. I’m a very direct person, but I never mean any malice. ♥️🙏🏽
@Dean Agnor Oh dear brother! I’m sorry if my words have offended. I’m genuinely just trying to understand, and talk through things with you. My perception of youth is based on my own life experience. And also, how Scripture commands older men to disciple the younger, and the same for women. I think years of life and study, does usually bring great wisdom. I know that me 10 years ago, was much more naive and uneducated, than the person I am today. I’m also much more compassionate, and Grace giving then my former self. And proverbs says that there is wisdom in a multitude of council. I personally have benefited massively from consulting other people, on many things in my life. So I would encourage that with anything! But especially faith related experiences, and interpretation of those.
To give you more reference friend, I was not raised in the church. I was not trained up in any man’s traditions or religions. And I was orphaned at 13 and on my own after that. So I don’t have any of those growing up experiences in the church that you have. Both the good and the bad, I have none of those in my raising. All of my conclusions on scripture, and Christianity, are simply based off me reading my Bible. That’s truly honestly it. I’m still trying to find a good home church locally too! Because that’s tough in my area, like I said before.
But what I’m trying to say here, is I don’t have some big church indoctrination history. And I don’t come to you with any agenda. In the words you have spoken to me already, I can tell that you have experiences both ends of the spectrum, in churches traditions. And you obviously have chosen the more charismatic side. But what I would challenge you to think about brother, is have you just chosen a different man’s traditions, over another, to suit what you desire? And you don’t need to say anything in response to me here, it’s ok, this is very public, and this is a very private topic. I just would love if you would meditate on that self examination. And I only ask that, because me without any church traditions indoctrination, and just reading my Bible, as an adult that came to God in adulthood…. I just don’t see what your church has done, and is doing, anywhere demonstrated in scripture.
And!!! I’m not saying that in a rigid way! I know you don’t know me, but I’m not rigid at all. I’m an Army veteran, and a full time mom, and I fly by the seat of my pants every single day. Most days I can be found playing in the mud with my son, in the backyard. I do not think that everything in Christianity is precisely explained exactly in scripture. I do believe that God has left many mysteries for us. And only God knows many many things! But that’s exactly why I’m cautious about hearing anyone that definitively ascertains something is with zero doubt, from God. With no proclivity for scripture. Even just following basic inductive, or deductive, mature reasoning. I believe humbly, that we should see some sort of guidance in scripture, that points us in a general direction of safety.
Where I’m not really seeing Bethel type camps establishing that scriptural foundation, at least in just a basic understanding of hermeneutics, but not in an absolute rigid way, just in an educated wise way. I am instead seeing something that is so very identical to my time in New Age. I was very very experienced in New Age, so I know it like the back of my hand. Im I’m concerned for brothers doing things identical to it. Im not concerned because I want to be right, or one up anyone. Im concerned because your eternal soul depends on this. It’s heartbreaking to me, to imagine anyone I’ve ever met, going to hell, but while pleading with God saying Lord Lord, but I have performed many good works in your name, I have prayed over and healed many people. I can’t imagine that moment of frantic desperation of someone standing before our God believing they were truly saved. Only for Jesus to turn them away and say I never knew you, you workers of inequity. That’s terrifying.
So that’s why I’m here talking with you brother. I have a prayer I often say, and that is Lord please teach me if I am wrong, please guide me into your Truth. But if this friend is wrong, Lord please show them, and guide them into your Truth. Because who am I honestly? Im no one. Im just a woman who reads her Bible at home alone. I have no title, no influence, and I will gain nothing in this life, from taking this time to chat. So please just think about what I said. Take yourself to God, ask Him for his Truth to be illuminated to you. Not the teachings of any man! Not the traditions of any man! For we are all so so broken and inherently sinful in every way. Don’t trust anyone, including me. Trust God. Trust His Word in scripture. And pray that He may illuminate your journey and study of His Truth.
Brother, you’re in my prayers. And not in some passive aggressive arrogant way. I would love if you prayed for me too! Lord knows I need it!! 😂 May God lead us both to His divine Truth. Amen.
This is an example of speaking the truth in love. Thank you!
This is an example of an open mind~! Our minds are to be closed to everything, other than the WORD of God, simply because as the book of John says, the "Word is God"
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 1:1
Mark Gallagher Can you elaborate on what you said please
I'm halfway through the video, and have listened to several clips of Bill - he is the master of verbal legerdemain. He does not give a logical argument but uses humor, appealing ideas without a basis in Scripture, and and other rhetorical techniques to persuade people to his position.
This video is blowing up again. I'm thankful. There's a lot of wisdom in how you responded to each point, and the biblical thinking you put into it. More people need to know the truth of the Bible and how Bethel and their teaching strays from it.
Hey man I love bethel very much, have friends that go there, watch a lot of messages. And this video was so informative and honoring I was able to receive what you were saying. Thank you for being a man of honoring the bride, and challenging us to grow our foundation.
What up Chris
You're too kind. Mike did exactly what he accuses Bill of doing. I disagree with Bill on some things but I think we need an evaluation of Mike too because he's being hypocritical. Saying Bill's "hermaneutic is terrible" (31:00) and gobbledygook, and it's what false teachers do is not informative and honouring. You are trying to honour Mike but you are being too kind: Mike tried to be honouring but he failed badly in that and since he's standing here as a teacher and a judge he needs to be checked.
Mike's treatment of "the poor will always be with you" is just one example, 37:40. Also, the bible says "mercy triumphs over judgment" James 2:13 so we can see why Bill would say that the truth of Mercy is superior to that of judgment, he's basically saying that yes people do evil things and we don't ignore that but we should still have mercy and that mercy triumphs in those who are cleansed by the blood of Jesus - and now apparently that's a heresy?
The Daigle's stay away from the nonesense
Jonathan mean while you judge him , yet you take two verses and relate them , ?? They don’t even relate to one another
People can have a zeal without knowledge. The Bible speaks of that as well. I love zeal for the things of God, but zeal without knowledge of Gods Word can get people in trouble.
I can attest to this comment. When I first Got saved I was on fire but was very naive and lacking in discernment and wisdom in and from the Lord so I just did and said things that ruined my testimony and didn't show Christ. Now I look back and say wow I was so immature in my faith and lacked guidance in the Holy spirit.
Indeed. "Did you know that Jesus was born again? He had to. He became sin." - Bill Johnson.
Romans 6:5; 8:9
1 John 2:20; 4:1-9
1 Timothy 3:1-13, 16
Galatians 2:20; 5:22-23
John 21: 25
Love this comment
Sharon Crawford I’m assuming you’re speaking of Romans 10. If you look at the context “knowledge” is not speaking of knowledge of scripture, but knowledge of Christ. The Jews had “zeal” for God but did not have “knowledge” of Christ. They had zeal for their works rather than Christ.
I am watching this quite a long time after the original release and have a few observations.
1) Bill Johnson is one of the people that Paul warned the church at Galatia about:
Gal. 1:6-10 “I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.”
Mr. Johnson is very clearly preaching “another gospel” contrary to the gospel of Christ laid out in the words of the Bible. As such, he is accursed (Merriam Webster = being under or as if under a curse; damnable).
2) For him to stand in front of a group of people, choose 1 verse, take it 100% out of context and then have the audacity to say that God didn’t lay out the teachings that we are to follow is heresy (M-W= adherence to a religious opinion contrary to church dogma)
3) The Bible is clear that we, true believers, will be able to look at the “fruits” of another person’s life and tell if they are also a true believer (Matthew 7:15-20 (words of Jesus Himself): Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorn bushes or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, not can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. This you will recognize them by their fruits.) This section of Scripture goes on to say that NOT every person who says “Lord, Lord” will enter into God’s kingdom. Even if their defense is, “But I prophesied in your name, cast out demons in your name and did many might works in your name.”
Your humility is on another level brother! This is the first time I’ve seen anything from you and it has hands down blessed me. Thank you.
The thorn in the flesh a messenger from Satan to buffet him. Messenger translates angel or demon. Not sickness. You can’t get around that. I agree with you but don’t created something to support your position.
A.E. Kuyler yup same here
The bible was not written by the prophets, and of the apostles to be interpreted base on there own preconcieved idea, there own carnal mind, there own theology, or there own philosopy, these are the tradition, or the doctrine of men. If anyone preach to you a different gospel that you have not recieve from the writting of the apostles of Christ, let him be acurse. You cannot go beyond what was writtin in the scripture. God will use the unwise to shame the wise. No man is wiser than God, or righteous in the sight of God, My question to you, are all prophets? ( pastor) do all speak in tonges? Do all have gift of healing are all apostles? then what is your answer if you know? May God bless all.
I’ve lived with infertility for fourteen years and while I have continuing faith for healing I am yet to see the fulfilment in my own life. I know God heals and God is all loving but above that I know from scripture that He is sovereign and everything is in His care. Learning to trust that God knows best has led to more faith in Him and His character than ever having faith for healing has. It has produced a deeper, more intimate and abiding trust and faith. I will always believe it’s possible for my husband and I to have children but even more powerful is my understanding that He is sovereign and a good Father. He knows what is best for us. This has come from many years of prayer, walking with the Lord and continued reading of scripture. This is where I believe this prosperity teaching falls short. It puts the emphasis on what God can do for us rather than on His character and majesty. I open my eyes now every day to the wonder of His creation and the gospel and I’m in awe. It has transformed my life.
I just started watching him maybe 3 days ago and I thought the same thing!!! I admire his character.
Gods word is complete, in fact we are told in and all through out the scriptures NOT to add or take away from it.
Amen!
Isn't that just the book of Revelation? There are some books that have been "taken out" for whatever reason, one being Enoch.
@@jesusislord229 Enoch was never included in the canonized Scriptures. Please do some research on how we got the 66 books instead of listening to whatever lies people can come up with to deceive
you mean the bible.
@A Lucky Man! You never heard of the Apocrypha?
I can't stand when pastors say stuff like, "Is there anyone in the room?", "Sure is quiet in here!", "You missed a good place to say amen!"
Thats a way of manipulating people.
It’s because they aren’t boosting his ego. I can tell he’s not happy. He has a very healthy ego!
@@daviddaffurn2563 Not always.
Pastor Mike, you are so gracious and generous in your teaching and discernment. Thank you for your valuable time and dedication. I rely on your videos for much of my own learning. God bless you and your ministry and family!
I think you are too kind. I have zero tolerance tolerance for people that take it upon themselves to twist the scriptures to suit their own agenda. I was involved in a cult for years and came out very scarred. Everyone must be pointed to the Word to let the Holy Spirit speak to themselves. Leaders have to be held accountable for theirs teaching.
Why concentrate on these outward gifts and healings when it should be the inside of a person that must be cleansed?
Hi! I have a question based on what you shared and was wondering if you had a point of contact if you wouldn't mind
Corrine Furjanic No only that we have a church similar over the road from us.
@@conartist267 I think she wants an email or facebook contact to ask you a question...
Facts
Carol Taylor oh ok. Thanks!
I've been watching a lot of your vids. Very good stuff. Thanks. I understand your desire not to "demonize" Bill Johnson, however I would ask just how much poison can be in a drink and it still not be fatal? He DOES alter the Gospel, or at least add to it, which is alteration. I think people need to be told to steer clear of him and his ministry. Be Blessed!
I fully agree. It is very scary.
A little leaven......I think that was a quote from Jesus.
Amen you are right.
The doctrine is false whether the leader is well meaning or saved isbesides the point as long as the doctrine the leader teaches is false he is a false prophet.
Let's pray he realizes that and repents of teaching obvious false doctrine and lies.
He may be mentally challenged or simply ignorant to the lies he is telling.
Yet they are lies on Jesus and he should be exposed and rebuked boldly and with love as God does offer even gals prophets grace and forgiveness when they repent.
Abbas Girl 7 spot on. Totally agreed. I’d stay away from the movement, and I think it could very well be part of the antichrist movement. The devil uses a ton of truth mixed with one or two fatal lies that leads people astray.
Thank you. I agree...WARN people to steer clear of being diluted and disillusioned by another gospel.
12:49 theology
18:04 what added into their gospel to be the "true gospel"
23:26 The major false doctrine in their theology
27:55 superior true and the other true ?
32:28 Jesus Theology > Theology ?
40:27 Kingdom of God Come to Earth? Healing Teachings
48:19 Losing your healing?
50:29 Healing Rooms Clips and always at the verge of achieving dreams
54:08 How he got people to prophetic and it's issues
59:21 How they teach prophetic (Clip)
Thank you
thank you
Thank you 😌
Thank you. I like "tl;dr" comments.
Mr. Popo thanks
About 15 months ago, I came out of hyper-charismatic and I am still struggling with the idea that God would cause a storm. I’m still getting a lot of stuff pruned out of my life and approach to God. The first 9 months were absolutely horrific. Like going cold turkey. At month 9, I realized, “As a Christian, I have to do what God wants me to do. I don’t know better than God”. And I discovered great peace in stopping my resistance (which was being fueled by what I learned in hyper-charismatic).
I was a believer in the word of faith gospel for a long time. I've learned the Lord is perfecting me in my struggles and pain and after He walks with me through my pain , the work He did in me is well worth the pain and struggle. The trials, tribulations etc.... The Lord allows us to walk through prepares us for the beauty of our blessed assurance. I had to really get in my spirit to seperate from this world. This world will be tough but my home, with Him will be amazing!!
I watched a video Apologia Studios uploaded about a young girl how left BSSM- the video was difficult to understand and follow. While somewhat helpful, I appreciated this so much more. I have never come across such a genuine heart lead conversation about something of concern. Thank you! This helps a newer Christian who doesn’t understand.
That interview was not a good starting block to Bethel and it's teachings. But it's more of a video to expose the cult like behavior of their ministry.
For more information on this - watch “American Gospel” or read Costi Hinn’s book “Defining Deception”
I agree with Tom K. That interview was not ideal for a first introduction to Bethel. However, the interview was still quite revealing and shared, from one person’s perspective, a quite shocking and disturbing and high volume of bad things happening at that church and in this movement. We all need to know that the spectrum at Bethel is (suspect to dangerous), not great to okay.
These heretic hunting discernment ministries could learn a lot from Mike Winger. This is how you address theological concerns "with gentleness and respect". (I Pet. 3:15)
When did you go conformist? I always thought you had something on the ball. Anybody who waters down on the Divine Healing process is a mortal enemy of the Christian Faith.
@@loveisneverasin9092 I didn't say that I agree with Mike Winger on everything, I just said that he is using the right approach. I don't agree with Bill Johnson on everything either, and I think Mike makes some valid points. That doesn't mean that I'm going soft on Divine Healing. It means that I use discretion with Bill Johnson like I do with everybody else.
He didn't go into exactly his Own theology, so I'm taking the higher road - and yes, I hve been more than once and am very well with their theology, Until you state your own theology and why You think that your own is the only path to walking out your theology. Personally - since you Didn't state your own I will stick with my bible-based church, happily and confident in Our blessed Hope, Jesus Christ
Mary FACTS I agree with you 100%
And as important, do all this in brotherly love
Just listened to a Bethel talk. Was able to listen critically (I mean work out where it was not sound) because of listening to your teaching for a month or so. Thanks for helping me develop my understanding.
Bilj Johnson is, ss the rest of us Spirit filled believers are doing the good works prepared beforehand for us to walk in. Bless you Bill and bless you finger pointing potentials. May you all find Jesus and live the way He did not matter the criticism you may face. All hail King Yeshua
Seriously thank you for every ounce of work you spend putting into these videos. THEY HELP TREMENDOUSLY form a right mentality in me as a young believer to think Biblically rather than just be caught with every whim of "new movement."
Bill Johnson: "God is bigger than his book."
Me: Aight, I'mma head out...
All preachers that try to see the entire bible as "spiritual" will falter. Some teachings recently ADD to the original meaning intended by the original author. We need to be sooooo careful that before we point fingers, we have , ourselves, a sound doctrine and theology based on biblical truth.
Right behind ya-
That's true, we should alway's examine ourselves first. If someone is teaching sound doctrine, it is scriptural to judge false doctrine & even rebuke.
Bill Johnson love him he is a teacher a really humble servant of Christ i feel inspired by him to seek for more the Lord ssys seek me and you shall find me .... and dont judge there is only one judge...none of us have the right to judge there is only one judge
@@patriciagibbs4191 wow, anyone that buys into his garbage theology, is just decieved. I pray for y'all though. Or should I say untheology?? Because half of what they teach is unscriptural, or twisted scripture. Guess people can only see from outside their little magik box
Thank you Mike, I have heard many people criticise Bill (or other preachers). However, you critiqued his preaching / theology with the Word and remembered that he is a person that is trying to love God. This is definitely appreciated. God bless you.
So are the jews, and Muslims too, so that isn't saying anything.
@@Max-kn9yi but they dont believe in Jesus
I love to listen to you Mike. You are so kind. If someone asked me how I would describe you, kindness and graciousness would be the 2 words I would use. I am Reformed and I have learned so much from you. You are a blessing to so many.
Thanks for this Mike. I attended Bethel for a month and recently went to their evangelical equipping ministry where they "teach" you how to pray and see people have a miracle. The Saturday before we went out (recently) I became very ill. When I messaged the leader of this group that I was sick, it was "no worries"....not "let me pray for you to have your miracle and come give others miracles". In the class where they teach people what to say and how to pray they pray and then say "Is your "back" ten percent better", then they pray again if it's just "ten percent". I am still working through this, I come from a reformed background and had a lot of friends who went into the ministry and went to Dallas Theological Seminary. I have had mental health issues, and chronic pain and was so hopeful that my miracles were/are coming it's been really upsetting. My friend, an athiest, said to me bc I've had such a hard month with sickness, PTSD, anxiety.."where are your church friends now? I think Bethel can be very damaging. Why would Jesus heal "ten percent"..does that make sense? I also wonder and wish to ask if this is actually withcraft and demonic and can it open other doors? My friend from Bethel who I believe has a good heart told me when I said I was struggling deeply in my mind I needed a Deliverance meeting. So it's like..if we pray and it doesn't work then you are clearly under "demonic influence"? I absolutely believe in the demonic, I wonder actually what you think of David Hernandez ministry? I just really appreciate this it has brought me so much more peace than trying to implement there "ideas" about healing.
Matthew 24:24 "For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect." (ESV)
Hey Natalie,
As the verse I gave you above states, by the mouth of Jesus Himself, it is emphatically stated that there will be many people pretending to wield the power of Yahweh yet operating under the power of the demonic.
I've been a "deliverance minister" (Christian exorcist) for many years and can say with near certainty that the majority of the "faith healings" today are either:
A.) *Placebo effect* - The placebo effect is when a person's physical or mental health appears to improve after taking a placebo or 'dummy' treatment. Placebo is Latin for 'I will please' and refers to a treatment that appears real, but is designed to have no therapeutic benefit.
You get in a state of almost frenzy within a huge crowd of elated, nearly manic people where everyone believes healing is imminent and will happen no matter what. So, for the time being, your mind jumps on board with the hysteria and release any number of hormones, endorphins, etc to match what you're forcing yourself to believe. Sadly, later that week all the problems remain and no real healing is to be found.
B.) *Demonic in origination* - This is a rather abstruse, highly complex principle of Biblical demonology, but I do believe it accounts for an enormous amount of demonically inspired "faith healings" all within the "name of Jesus". Matthew 7:21-22 says the following:
21 “Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?
This is the second group of people on judgment day that God says "depart from me I never knew you...", which is rather incredible given that they are attesting, before God Almighty, that they were "prophesying, casting out demons, doing mighty works" by the name of Jesus. How is it possible people who never knew, and were never known by God could do supernatural signs and wonders, many of which we appear to see in Bethel?
Solely because, Yahweh is not the only source of supernatural power available in the world today. Satan and his demons, as shown within the story in Exodus 7-8 with Pharaoh's magicians, can and still do magic, signs, and wonders. The story of Simon the Sorcerer in Acts 8:9-24 mimics this in the New Testament.
Deliverance ministry/Christian exorcism, as I practice and interpret it today, is something that mixes all the knowledge God has wondrously given us, and the usage of Biblical truth to determine whether or not a problem really is demonic. *Every plausible explanation must be exhausted first before blame on the demonic can be even feasibly suggested*
This is my biggest issue with Bethel. They conduct no medical, psychiatric, or occult screening prior to figuring out whether an issue is or isn't a demon. They jump in, assuming you either need a physical healing, have a demon, or both. It couldn't possibly be that you have some unknown medical ailment, some undiagnosed mental instability, some dietary issue you're not addressing, or any number of unintentional brush ins with the occult, witchcraft, magic, what have you that *may* account for your predicament.
All this being said, if you wish, I can dialogue with you via email and assist you further if you'd like. If not, I hope this helped.
@lovesdogs8616 thanks for the input and encouragement.
Natalie read your comment and praying for you sister🙏 I'm believing you have found peace I think you know how much Jesus loves you ❤️✝️✝️🙏🙏🙏
I really appreciated your approach. Thank you for spending hours doing the digging so you could point out theological errors. Loved your emphasis on all of Scripture, and the warning to not buy hook line and sinker all the teachings of one individual teacher. Keep it up!
Mike is a pastor. The hours spent digging were by a desperate man asleep at the switch , from members realizing they were missing something under the preaching at his Church.
My wife went to the Bethel school of ministry and I listen to Bethel music all the time during my quiet times. But I also lead an apologetics group and hold the word of God in the highest value. I am going to think about this and pray about it. I am not ready or willing to throw off Bethel and what they're doing but maybe through good teaching we can keep their good aspects and course correct in others. Maybe we can all pray for that together?
Even a little bit of fake is like a poison . . .
Please consider watching the documentary American Gospel Christ Alone. There’s a one hour version on UA-cam but the full version is in the AGTV app or amazon.
I appreciate your humility in this, but understand and know that they are leading weak Christians astray. I know someone personally who attended their ministry school and they were led to believe that they were a prophet in a marital relationship with the Holy Spirit. Surely a church with right teaching would have sought to correct this individual’s obviously flawed thinking. But this church is the one that inspired this individual’s thinking.
A little leaven, leavens the whole lump. We cannot have a "eat the meat and spit out the bones" attitude towards this type of teaching. Many Christians are not skilled enough to have the discernment to know when Doctrine is being misrepresented the same way that you do..
Sorry,No way!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pains: it is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world.”
C.S. Lewis
@Dean Agnor Pain is a gift. It helps you learn that fire is hot, sharp thing's cut, and that something is wrong. A pain lead me to do some tests and found a problem that would kill me if left untreated. I also cried out to God.
@Dean Agnor Correct good theology starts with God. Then you must show that God cares. Showing good results from pain is a part of that.
@Dean Agnor Suffering is inevitable in this world. But a Christian relates to suffering like gold does to fire. We can discuss how much of the suffering me experience comes directly from God or if we play a part in it, but the fact stands that God gives meaning to what would seem like meaningless suffering. The Bible is absolutely clear on this point.
Joseph in Genesis. Job in the wisdom literature. The Disciples and the early church. The guarantee that you will suffer can be found all over Jesus's teachings. But Jesus gives meaning to our pain, and because of this we can be blessed (which means "happy" in greek)
@Dean Agnor I would say God uses pain, but that ultimately it is not his final intention. The Garden had no pain, and the new Eden will have no pain either. So yes, I believe we agree.
I recently subscribed to your channel. Thank you for your truth revealing work and for being a watchtower and gate keeper of the true and sound Gospel of Christ. It is much needed. About a year ago I started having certain health issues. It’s amazing how this time has been one of growth and healing…spiritual growth and spiritual healing that is. I’ve drawn closer to God and His word. It may appear as if God has forsaken me but in reality it has been a one year Christian spiritual retreat. I feel like Jonah; stuck in the whale’s belly. God has detained my steps and my ways (my own routes and decisions), for which I am grateful. It’s better to enter the Kingdom of God without a leg or an arm than to not enter at all. I still have my limbs (don’t get me wrong) and others have worst medical conditions than I, but this ‘sick time’ has been very healthy for my spirit and walk with God. In Christ everything fulfills a purpose and everything is under His control. At times healing you is not God’s will. This is a reality which we must accept. Once again, thank you for this video (and others as well). Be blessed in Jesus’ name.
NEXT: Steven Furtick biblically examined
YESSSSSS!!!
Yes
That'll be a short video.
@@Sethseneca furtick is Satan spawn
YES PLEASE
Mike, you're being a bit too nice on this one, I think. Bill Johnson might be sincere and a very nice guy even. But he's not only preaching a bait-and-switch gospel, but he's EXPORTING it!
Maybe his niceness-- his, "sheep-ness," is really his "sheep's clothing?"
Mike did exactly what he accuses Bill of doing. I disagree with Bill on some things but Mike's being hypocritical here: Mike's treatment of "the poor will always be with you" is just one example, his point might be valid but he's completely misusing scripture in this example, maybe he's a wolf too? (37:40). He's also misrepresenting Bethel's teaching on financial blessings. They only teach that God *can* bless us financially (and it's okay to ask God for it) not that he always will. Secondly, the bible does say "mercy triumphs over judgment" in James 2 v13 so we can see why Bill would say that the truth of Mercy is superior to that of judgment, he's basically saying that yes, people do evil things, and we don't ignore that, but we should still have mercy and that mercy triumphs in those who are cleansed by the blood of Jesus ...and that's gobbledygook?
Sketchpad Warrior, Bill Johnson preaches a false Christ who was “just a man in right standing with God” rather than preaching the truth of the scriptures that say Jesus is God, the fullness of the Godhead of 1 John 5: 7 dwelling in one true living God. A false Christ can’t save anyone, so nothing else Bill Johnson says matters.
@@Redeemed.of.YHVH.thru.Christ I agree.
I agree
Amen and AMEN!! I got caught up in the counselor part of Bethel. Wow! What these people believe it's troubling. I went up to heaven several times and met lots of angels and all kinds of BS. This counselor really thought they knew what they were talking about. If I hadn't known my bible I would have fallen for it. God showed me all we were doing was going down rabbit holes that were not truth and to stop it!! Bill has a God complex like he knows more than you do. I'm scared for the people who don't know their bibles and don't read GOD's mind. You need more bible Mike. I love your teachings and have learned a lot from you but this is not a a good exposition on Bill or Bethel.
Mike I appreciate your desire to be gracious and giving a fair and balanced approach but I also think that the hallmark of false teachers and prophets is placing truth next to error, the true things they say and do are camouflage for the error, it's bait to lure the undiscerning and I'm so glad you clearly point out the error. I think we should steer clear of Bethel and be sober and alert so not to be deceived, yet we should pray for them. Thanks for all you do for the body!
Tom Brown, I totally agree with everything you said here.
I appreciate much of what you said but I wonder if Paul were speaking about these things if he would have been as gracious and willing to overlook their error.
I don't !
denoinwa1 you’re a Bethel follower, so it’s possible that Winger’s message is emotional for you right now. I was in a church like Bethel, as well, and understand where you’re coming from. I exhort you to continue prayerfully studying your Bible and seeking after the Lord. Biblical exegesis lessons are not “theological bias” and I don’t hear Winger falsely accusing Bill Johnson of anything. He’s looked at dozens and dozens of hours of sermons and he never questions Johnson’s sincerity. This is a very loving, careful look at what Johnson says, in light of Scripture. That’s all he’s doing. If you feel accusation, that may be a warning in your heart to study the Word closely.
denoinwa1 I was in an NAR church. Nice try, though. 😁
Great video Mike. I was influenced by Bethels teaching. Over the last year as I read the Bible, especially the New Testament, I became bothered by a dichotomy between how the believers lived in the Bible and my attitude. As I prayed and searched the Bible, I realized that Bethels teaching was all about the individuals best interests. In the New Testament, it was never about the best interests of the individual, but it was about the believer following God even unto death. I have learned that God has a plan that was devised at the beginning of creation to redeem the entire universe. I mean not only mankind, but also all creation. God is going to destroy all evil when Jesus returns. We the church have a role in this plan. Look at Eph. 3:8-13. We are even to demonstrate the manifold wisdom of God to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realm. These include the principalities we wrestle with. I had an epiphany where I now understand that God may not necessarily have my best interests in mind to further His plan of redemption. Look at Stephen in Acts. Look at all the Apostles who were all crucified. Our purpose is not self centered, it’s not about avoiding all suffering, in fact suffering is important for us to die to our flesh. I believe this process prepares us to serve Him in Eternity. It is necessary. The teachings of Bethel are not preparing believers to serve God in Eternity. They are only tickling the ears to seduce them from surrendering completely to our savior. You have to lose your life completely to Jesus to find it. Keep up the good work. May God grant you more wisdom and discernment to reveal truth from error.
Thank you for your comment. There is much wisdom and truth in it.
Remember that one of the devils greatest deception tactics is to mix truth with lies.
Did not GOD warn...NOT everyone one who say Lord Lord didnt we cast out demons (healing people) in your name?...and the Lord will say to them depart from me I never KNEW you.
Let us pray for Bill Johnson and the people of Bethel
nugat cube absolutely!
And Mike
@@Vazkez31 and ourselves.
Amen!!
Amen
I love Bill Johnson's teachings & most of it really resonates with my spirit , BUT I appreciate your thoughtful critique of some of his teachings without trying to vilify or demonize him. We all must remain humble in our journey to greater & more complete revelation. BLESSINGS!
Brother, there is no greater or more complete revelation. Hebrews 1:1-2 tells us Christ is the final revelation. Proverbs 30:5-6 warns us not to add anything to what God has said. In Galations 1:6-9 Paul actually warns against believing there is any other gospel than what he already taught: Christ's death, burial, and resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:3-6). We don't even need more revelation- God has already spoken. We are wise to study what He has already said so we can recognize the Truth (Matthew 24:24)
3:50 Bill Johnson history
5:30 momentum
7:00 spreading the movement
8:13 we need revival
8:50 they're exporting
10:00 bethel as a mecca, Mike is charismatic
10:44 bill Johnson clip, bethel is exporting
12:50 Bill is an apostle
13:45 clip, apostles' teaching
16:40 Bill's humility, WoF arrogance
17:22 is Bethel's gospel intact
18:20 Bill's anathema
Dude, I was so serious and listening to everything you were saying. Then you blew that all out of the water when you made the comment about “commentators”.
When you said “common potatoes” and I repeated “commen...tators” to myself slowly I lost it, literally laughing out loud. 😂 great video. 👍
😂
😂
I’ve never heard that before. I can’t stop thinking about it. 😂
😂😂😂
Honestly, what comes to mind when I examine Bethel, Hillsong, and other churches of the like is what Revelation says about false teachers and prophets. And I've noticed this type of evangelism is becoming more commonplace. Honestly I feel this is simply Bible prophecy coming to fruition
@@loveisneverasin9092 I might ask you the same, since apparently you're on a UA-cam comment section trolling. What reward do you think that will get YOU on Judgenent Day? I simply watched the video to educate myself more on their doctrine. I honestly see nothing wrong with learning about other churches I share my Christian community with. Especially when some of the music from these churches is being played on Christian radio stations I listen to. I tend to educate myself on these things to learn if the doctrines being broadcast agrees with my beliefs or not. So please don't be so quick to judge. As far as my comment being a "repeat" of others on here, as you so eloquently put it, I would simply call that agreement. So honestly, being rude to me was rather uncalled for. If you disagreed with what I said, all you had to do was say so. And honestly, I belong to a good church in my local community. I don't make it a point to attend other churches because I've already found one that the Holy Spirit speaks to me in. Other than that, peace and God bless
@@85bbenjaminfan
Alright...you don't want a Big reward. Standing there with a White Robe waving a Palm ....all you have left after all your Works get burned up....certainly isn't bad. Remember then that the few of us wearing Crowns and living in Mansions tried to reach you folks and improve your focus, but you rejected us.
Everyone cries out to God for Revival and Truth and Direction....and when it comes to our Porch, the front door routinely gets slammed shut .
Here's what I heard from Heaven: " O another one in the Prayer closet reciting the faults of Bethel and Hillsong for me...tell me Something I don't know( this is going to be a L - O - N - G Night) ...BORING! "
@@loveisneverasin9092 Dude, go find someone else to troll and let me be. I don't have time to deal with people like you
Jacob Harwood exactly! I’ve been thinking the same thing too. Jesus knows what’s really going on in these churches just like the 7 letters in Revelation.
I've lied about being healed under pressure!! This is why I don't like those things.
Im sure you are not the only one. Ive seen how some of these teachers operate. According to them, if you are not healed its your fault. You have sin in your life or lack the faith. Not what the Word teaches. In the Bible God put plagues and deseases on alot of people. God can do whatever He wants because Hes God. Be very careful who you listen to and KNOW THE BIBLE WELL. We are in great times of deception!
Same here
Sharon Crawford Yes we should understand God,s word and ask forgiveness, I'd discernment, .consider many examples where sin did affect God's heal or blessing in regards to sin, Jesus ,blessed the woman ,and told her to repent of her. sins .Grace yes ,but in relationship by His Spirit, "setting things apart."..even unforgiveness can hinder complete blessing.. He says not to" even give the devil a finger hold.. lest he take tge whole hand ans arm.Authority in Jesus name His power.. Shalom
Thanks for your honesty!
Carmen Perez you’re brave for admitting that
Pastor Mike, will you consider talking about how Beni Johnson's recent death puts Bethel's theology on healing under pressure? Thank you!
It is interesting that when he makes a statement and doesn't get a response from the people, he somewhat mocks them in a joking manner to bring them on board in agreement to what he is saying.
I thought the same thing
Yeap noticed that, pretty pathetic. I wouldn't be able to sit through one of his sermons. Absolute trash
I hope I'd have the good sense to walk out of a meeting like that or to challenge it.
Yes it worried me cz he seemed to get angry when they did not agree with him
I noticed the same thing.
His closing statement was incredibly honorable. I very much enjoyed this video. And, this is coming from my 5+ years of Bethel experience. And as a previous BSSM student. I do believe in the movement as a whole that Bethel has initiated, and very much look forward to the continued refinement of the movement in working out these types of issues. Mr. Johnson & Mr. Vallotton have inspired and empowered me greatly over the years (even in spite of seeing their flaws), and I have seen fruit of this movement bringing family members who weren’t walking with God to now come in a little closed. Much more refinement and diligence is sure to come with the heart that they, and many others in the movement have. I’m glad that they didn’t wait until perfection to get started...
The Detailist, LLC they are false teachers sir - read God's Word and make that your standard for truth as the Berean's did
I am so blessed to have found this channel. This sort of teaching is hard to come by in my experience.
Thanks so much for the hard work!
Generally, any Calvary Chapel is biblically sound. They are very proud of Mike Winger because he has grown a 21st century teaching hub online. Shalom..oh, that’s any church affiliated with the Costa Mesa Calvary. And I said generally. It’s a fellowship and churches can go astray.
Mike, great video! My only question would be, “if Bethel’s theology is wrong, why should we believe the ‘healings and miracles’ are from the God of the Bible?”
Great question…
Good question problem is I was brought up a pentecostal. Do I now identify serious errors and abuse that caused damage yes but when I look back there were also many redeemable things.
In saying that this talk has certainly n
Made me think deeply about my own theology.
My first experience with Bethel was a mission trip they made to my mission field, Italy. The empowered young people were very charismatic (in the magnetic sense). One of the leaders pointed me out for prophecy, and the things she said about me were truths that even my friends who were present didn’t know.
Later I went out in the streets with a group as an interpreter, and I definitely saw both the genuine prophetic and wishful, feel-good pseudo-prophecy.
All that to say that I believe that your video is both accurate and balanced. You obviously have no ax to grind, but are genuinely seeking to bring the Bethel culture back into biblical culture.
Thanks for an excellent video!
Demonic spirits watch our lives and they can feed information to those who have opened themselves up to them. It's how they know stuff we've never told anyone. It's Satan's own cheap parlor trick to hook the gullible and biblically illiterate.
Bill Johnson rejects reading anything contrary to what he believes ( his own words) Jude spoke of false teachers who had no fear of God. Solomon said that if you rebuke a wise man he will love you for it. It is no accident that you will never hear Bill teaching about how we should fear God. He also will not warn people of the coming judgement of God. You will understand a person's teachings better by what they refuse to teach or believe than what they do. Bigger church means more followers and with it more money. The love of which is the root of all evil.
Some people are good at reading others. I would be extremely wary of anyone that "
prophesies"over me. Mike Bickel from IHOP says that about 80% of the prophesy if wrong... What happened to the false prophets of the Old Testament?
@@rabidpigseatmore
They are stoned to death.
@@rabidpigseatmore Is BJ a false prophet?
Hey Mike, you do really great work! Just one quick comment. You say Bill Johnson 'has the Gospel plus additions.'
The problem with that is if you have added to the Gospel, then you are preaching a different Gospel.
If I say, Jesus saves us from sin and death, but you still need to be circumcised in order to be saved, that is a different Gospel.
David Emerson
Practicing circumcision is not wrong. Doing it for salvation is a different gospel. It's like some denominations claiming you are not saved unless you speak in tongues. Walk by the Spirit, and the flesh will follow.
Evelyn M. Young yes, I agree. That's what I was saying.
I think it more accurate to say Bill has a heretical Gospel plus additional heresies.
David Emerson nicely said!!
I agree...and if a preacher adds to the Gospel, then that is offensive to the work that Jesus did on the cross for the sins of the world. Adding to the Gospel cheapens what Jesus did.
It's so refreshing when this form of analysis is kind hearted - really interesting watch, particularly as a BSSM student. :)
@D - depends what aspect you're wondering about specifically. However as a previous and current theology student (Baptist seminary) now doing the ministry classes at Bethel, it's certainly a game changer when it comes down to the pursuit if God. Undeniably, people here are the most willing and open with their spiritual being and genuinely hungry for whatever it is God has for them. Did you have a specific you were wondering? :)
Ben Potter Music hi..did a nine month Bethel school....be hungry but careful with what you fill yourself with.....have been a Christian since 1976...have seen many teachings throughout the years...
Before coming to Christ I was into Silva Mind control, Aura reading..some tarot cards......I stayed at the school because I wanted to see what it was about...saw many similarities with new age activities....reading tattoos for spiritual meaning......meditating and visualize a garden scene and chose a deceased saint to meet with and interact with.....they did have some good teachings but mixed it in with the unusual....we need solid biblical teaching all things in balance...I could share more but suggest you do further research and ask the Lord to bring you His truth and direct your path🙏🙏
@@karengingras5600 wow yeah I mean I can't say I've come across any of that stuff (besides tattoo interpretation) in the school environment, in my time there - but that sounds intense!
@@karengingras5600 what are tattoo readings?
I had no clue this is what Bethel believes! I've only heard their music and really like most of it, but, WOW! The teaching is SO INCORRECT!! Am so thankful for coming across this video and some, from a few other sincere, born again Christian leaders!
I love your video. I love how you exposed false doctrine and false teaching with out being condemning
Mike any person who teaches another gospel is called accursed. I was there and I don’t think Bill Johnson is saved! Any man that teaches extra biblical teachings and allows grave soaking., along with teaching children to astral project and take trips to heaven at Will . Why can’t you see that you can’t be on the fence.? You either agree or disagree with the doctrine and practices. Didn’t the Apostle Paul rebuke Peter when Peter was in error?
Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Amen plus he teaches that Jesus on earth was only a man in right relationship with God. Wow.
Yes, Paul did rebuke Peter in Acts.
@@NcScbeach1 I agree, they are false teachers who needs to be exposed. Bill Johnson is a false teacher and the teachings of the Bethel are not biblical. We have to warn the body of Christ to avoid them. What does the bible say, Galatians 5:9: "A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump." I understand this verse to mean, a little false teaching can defile your whole body, spiritually speaking. We need teachers who will feed us on the pure word of scripture. We need to expose the wolves in sheep's clothing.
Bill is a cunning deceiver. Saved? Are Hereatics saved? False prophets saved? The ones that the bible warns us about, are saved???
Only Gods knows, but does God not show us how to spot the wolves?
This is not being in error.
Truth can not mix with falsehoods.
I enjoyed this. Although I feel it’s incomplete. I’d love to hear your thoughts on his books. Especially mystics of heaven (not sole author but he’s a participant), when heaven invaded earth, and a closer look at Kris Vallaton. I think it’s a mistake not to be stronger in encouraging people to completely avoid this teaching at all costs.
...are you so illiterate and w/o understanding...that I can't read a book 4 yourself...and discern its contents??
I see u are a naivete....
You have the same Holy Spirit in you that Mike has...use it....
@@loveisneverasin9092 Rebuke in love
I couldn't agree more - I believe you are absolutely right, that people should be encouraged to completely avoid this teaching. That's necessary for people's 'spiritual safety.'
@@loveisneverasin9092 Wow, how amazingly rude you are. You are toxic.
Yes this movement is very sick. Grave soaking is another sick thing. I think his wife made a article or book about it. Just witchcraft in a new age way. Love is kind i agree but sometimes we need a slap in the face.
5 years later Mike. Still good? I really appreciate you putting this video out there. Not just for me to begin to research who I allow to speak into my Christian walk, like Bill, but also encouraging people to think critically (Biblically) and not just accept everything said from any teacher.
I and my family have spent the last 15 years being associated with Bethel Church and Bill Johnson. We lived in Redding and attended Bethel for almost every service for 5 of those years. I've worked in the healing rooms. I've seen the men and the ministry up close. No movement is perfect as they are all made up of imperfect human beings. But I can tell you from my experience I've never been in relationship with a leader of a movement with more integrity, humiliity, passion and undeniable annointing than Bill Johnson. And my years there and the influence on me and my family ( we have 6 now adult kids) has been a watershed in all things spiritual. I spent 20 years in the Christian music industry. We lived as missionaries in Ukraine for almost 9 years. I've been apart of many ministries and organizations. I've seen the good, the bad and the ugly. I will be forever grateful to God and Bethel for how they opened my eyes to what Jesus meant when he said "The Kingdom is at hand" and "on earth as it is in heaven". Time alone will be the judge of what is God and what is not. Every man will stand before God and give an account. Let us not become weary in welldoing. Let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us. His Kingdom come, His will be done...On earth as it is in Heaven.
There is something about cats and a love of the gospel. Even though they are generally indifferent, my cats are always trying to get into the room when I am running through a sermon on Saturday morning. Their little paws are always reaching under the door.
My cat loves worship music !
Aww!
This is fantastic! Would love to hear your thoughts on Hillsong and Elevation as well!
They’ve also received some scrutiny from the Evangelical community.
I left Elevation because (and this isn't the only reason) Furtick called God "...is a molecular structure..."
@@jyow-xe7pw 😯
@@Robin19196 yeah. Among other things but that was final straw
@@jyow-xe7pw whoa!! That's so wrong
@@rojishivabhakti2601 yep........ And people still attend with unquestionable faith toward him... Not God but him
Voice and sound not together. Anyway to fix it? 1:51
One thing I really cannot stand is the way any time people don't respond immediately how he wants (i.e. with cheering and loud amens), he basically accuses them of being asleep or not paying attention. Which guilts them into agreeing with him, which is so wrong. Maybe your congregation isn't responding that way because what you're saying is nonsense.
Anyway, I'm glad you made this video, Mike. I'm from Redding, and it's so tough being around this Bethel culture all the time. I find it so damaging, and I have far too many friends who I think need to see the danger in it more than they do. It's very sad. I understand your hesitance to make a claim about Bill's salvation, because you aren't God and you can't really know for sure, but I personally do not believe someone spreading so much false gospel in the way he is can be saved. He doesn't know God, he only knows who he wants God to be.
CassTeaElle very limited thought process.
Does Bill study his bible? To me he is a lazy preacher.
@@peteush6928 Limited in what way?
I just want to thank you for how you approached this subject. Everybody else that I have try to listen to on the subject has been extremely critical towards Bethel. Even though I am in agreement with the others I couldn't listen to them because they were so critical and we're not speaking out of love. I think you did a very good job of approaching the subject in love and without being critical.
Andrew Martin that’s because they are using Jesus as a front for a supernatural cult. There is something very sinister taking place there, ppl falling to the floor and convulsing like their possessed. All you need is the Bible
*"Did you know that Jesus was born again? He had to. He became sin." - Bill Johnson. That's not the Gospel.*
Yikes, that's very blatantly teaching another Christ, just as the bible warns us about. I've only tried to listen the man a little bit and there's something very off w/ him, to his very countenance (which is discerning of spirits kicking in). It didn't take long before I started hearing error, only he's far more subtle w/ it mostly. That Heidi ? (last name is blanking) is blatant. The one who staggers and falls down drunk and laughing and imparts obvious demons on people. There's a viral video going around where a young man is touched by her and he writhes around unnaturally in agony while screaming and she just keeps yelling, "more Lord" and "fire fire...". Horrendous stuff. Not sure if Bill Johnson does that or if he just paves the way.
@@saintejeannedarc9460 Yeah, I've seen that video -- horrendous. It was as if he was experiencing being burned alive. Stuff of horror stories. Makes you wonder *seriously* who her "lord" is. Bill Johnson was right there watching, never stopping it. I believe 100% that God has nothing to do with them, but that the god of this world does. Evil.
That’s blasphemy.
Jesus bore the sins of all. He DID NOT become sinful. Also, why should Jesus have to be born again? He was perfect there was no transformation needed for him.
@@RealwithAida Yes, Bill Johnson has another Jesus. He also says Jesus spent 3 days in hell being tortured by demons. Sounds like he's reading straight from Satan's fan fiction.
But isn't it written in 2. Corinthians 5,21 that Jesus became sin?
It's been fascinating listening to the time you've taken to examine Bill Johnson's theology. I have been in pentecostal churches, am not now, and a lot of what you've said shows you've observed things well and is pretty accurate. I'm particularly impressed that you've pointed out this point of making the life of Jesus on earth the defining touchstone to everything else, it actually does sound right until you unpack it, and you've looked at the convoluted turn of phrase the Bill uses.
I do think however that Bill Johnson does encourage healthy practices for healing and prophecy. They are closely aligned with Randy Clark's Global Awakening ministry which encourages checking your healing with a doctor if the prayer for healing is for something you can't verify on the spot eg cancer. Also, they do allow for mystery in their theology, that sometimes God doesn't heal, and we simply don't know why. Still, they do go back to Jesus as being the archetype to follow, which as you've pointed out sounds right until you consider issues of suffering and the subtle way that can crowd out other areas of scripture.
The sense of safe space they encourage in praying for healing and prophecy is a good thing, and while yes, there can be false practitioners encouraged, they also acknowledge we can get it wrong - only don't let our getting it wrong impede the environment for giving it a go. A lot of the church could learn a lot from such practices because it at least encourages people to actively try to listen to the Spirit and step out in the use of spiritual gifts. The issue then is that of weighing and accountability to what is said, and that is something I feel they could work on.
After several years listening to a lot of their teaching and feeling encouraged and helped by the love and heart of Bill Johnson's teaching and the like, I find myself away from it because at some point I was left with the reality that I wasn't feeling these things happening to me, and that for all the respect fo his heart, the teachings were getting nebulous and I was losing a sense of gauge for discerning the teachings, whether they were actually biblical or not. I also found it hard to weigh what was a good prophetic word and what was a mistake. In addition, some of their network were harder to accept then they were, in particular Simmons and The Passion Translation - I just could not accept the basis for that so-called translation of the bible (it's a paraphrase).
I started along that path because of experiences that I believe were real while overseas and found my more convservative church background had no embrace of things of the Spirit. I remain convinced that spiritual gifs and operating in the SPirit of God is biblical and for today. However apart from the gift of spiritual language (ie tongues) I've now reached a place where it's hard to accept much else, though I mentally do feel I have benefitted from some general approaches from Bethel and the like, if only my current church would stop extinguishing the good about pentecostal practices.
Thanks for looking carefully at Bill Johnson's teachings and Bethel and Kris Vallotton's teachings. There is still much good in it, particularly in their heart, but there are areas that defy wrapping heads around so the head simply embraces the vibe of what might be conveyed, and sometimes it's a case of building a telegraphed concept they haven't spelled out but might have suggested. I take it for what it is, flawed but well intentioned, and not the demonised caricature some other churches paint it out to be which I find disingenuous. Thanks for your video, it's quality examination there.
I appreciate you response and feel that this is a very genuine reaction to spiritual realities and the validity of certain biblical truths. One thing I will say that I pray encourages you is this.
The things you spiritually experienced we’re definitely real and you seem to still carry them after years. But like most things these feelings will fade with time and in order for them to be revived there needs to be a renewal of the fire. I believe the modern American church in general lacks the spiritual understanding and as a result the spiritual practices that can consistently help us experience the power and mercy of God. A large part of our beliefs are intellectual and psychological in nature and reduce God to being understood in head knowledge.
Jesus said that it was beneficial that he would leave so that The Holy Spirit could come and live in us and as a result we would receive power to live as Jesus’ teachings would command us. But our lack of understanding in how to consistently engage these truths make for a lack of results. Therefore over time our only real encounters with power and the movement of the spirit are few and far between.
I believe you are definitely genuine and authentic in your desire to see more. I would encourage you to read Acts and not focus as much on the miracles and signs but see what practices you can consistently replicate and see how God can move through The Spirit.
This makes sense to me. I have had experiences of miraculous, shackles lifted mind and body. Truly miraculous and the Holy Spirit. Which is in part what drew me to bethel initially bc i too come from a reformed background. Still praying my way through all of this. I have a dear friend from bethel and God has really used her. Costi Hinn has some interesting talks on it as well. I do however believe in miraculous healing and deliverance now concerning bethel I do have concerns and issues so have pulled away for now until I'm more solid.
I love the way you've dealt with this topic! Personally, I appreciate the faith and fire for God that people in Bethel have. Truly, inspiring really!
However, like you, I don't see their theology to be completely accurate with the the Word of God, and I haven't seen any other expose videos that dealt with this issue with such sound, wise, and loving manner. Well done!
Ps. The cat is adorable! ❤
I read a couple of Bill Johnson's books, and what he presented in them was not scripturally sound. His description of his begging God to visit him for years, being so desperate to have an experience of some kind, any kind, of spiritual phenomenon was extremely concerning as he was very clearly opening himself up to demons and to possession. When he finally described the experience he eventually had, what he described was seeing a being of light that appeared, and that filled him, and paralyzed him.
He did not describe any kind of healing, or anything one might believe was from any life-giving source. What he described was being possessed, being paralyzed, and being unable to move for hours, while he experienced ecstatic emotions because he was having this experience.
Not only is what he described biblically unsound, and a very clear description of a demonic visitation, but it showed someone who was more concerned with having "an experience" than believing the Written word of God, and someone who was totally without any sense of spiritual discernment.
Pretty scary stuff, to be honest... and then for him, after admitting this, to promote himself as a prophet of God, well, that was the end of Bill Johnson for me after revealing he does not walk with the God who reveals himself in the bible.
As I was reading these books (I had bought them both at the same time, and so undertook reading them as a bit of a project), I underlined any line I came across that either contradicted the bible, told an untruth about what the bible said, or twisted and distorted what the bible said to give it a different and false meaning.
When I finished, both of those books were full of pages with underlined things Bill Johnson had stated. All of it was unsound doctrine, all of it was false teaching, and all of it was Bill Johnson striving to make himself into a prophet of healing and someone with an understanding that was beyond what anyone else had ever understood or read from the bible because of his own "personal revelation", which turned out to be nothing that God had actually revealed to him at all.
What he presented as his testimony is exactly what we are warned of in so many places in the bible about false prophets, about those with a "new teaching", about those who say to follow them but what they teach is not what the word of God states.
I found him to very clearly be a deceiver and a really messed up individual who didn't care where he got his "spiritual experience" that he prayed so fervently for for so long from. He only cared that he had that experience, regardless of the fact that God does not harm, God does not paralyze, God does not tell us to put our "experience" above what his Word says.
Bill Johnson is very clearly a false teacher, and someone that anyone desiring a closer walk with God would be well advised to stay far, far away from at all costs.
I appreciate you going into his sermons with an open mind. I think that that's noble and fair. However, I've tried that and came to your conclusion. More recently I went in critically. I'm convinced that Bill Johnson is not much more than a cult leader. I think that he's able to captivate an audience through jokes and bending scripture into long rants that seem super deep but end in utter nonsense. I believe that he's making profits off of an enormous cult following that has an extremely charismatic (not in the sense of the charismatic church) leader and hypnotizing music...I think that the entire NAR movement is an enormous cult and he can try to distance himself from it but he holds the same beliefs and associates with those people. I feel like these types are very good at speaking out of both sides of their mouth. I do follow calvinist doctrine but I also dont believe that the gifts have ended so I love listening to you, ravi zacharias, and such...but I also listen to paul washer, James white, and Jeff Durbin...my home church is reformed Baptist. But these "signs and wonders" there are counterfeit, they're not of The Holy Spirit's gifts, they're of another spirit and most are non-existent and their manifestations are horrifying...I listened to one of his sermons and he made 2 jokes about God right from the beginning that were downright blasphemous. He told them to open to a scripture and it took him 5 minutes to finally get to it because he related it to some night waking thing he had and then proceeded the scripture into confusion. I know you meant well by being fair while listening but bethel truly worries me.
AJ Burgess well said. I am in agreement with you. I appreciate Mike’s approach as far as it goes but I would like to hear a heavier cautionary undertone at least, an explicit warning against any involvement with Bethel at best.
@@PD-iu9bn I moved to Redding 6 months ago and had already heard about the false teachings when I was outside of the church I saw a huge red pyramid infrastructure and knew to never go there. Why would a place of God have the all seeing eye of satan and it's a coincidence it's also red which represents blood sacrifice.
I totally agree with you.
Some of the manifestations that are happening in this "church" are have nothing to do with the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit will always exalt Christ they don't even believe he was Devine at birth..
@@vivaeuropa You see my friend, the problem is that we are living in an age where many Christians are putting their heads in the sand, ignoring the warnings and pretending as though the prophecies of Revelation are not going to materialize. Even if Johnson were to tell them he is a cult leader, they would probably find it funny and laugh it off. We live in a world where Christians think that Satan has gone to sleep. They are more likely to believe that something is a conspiracy and that people cannot possibly be so deceitful.
But you brother, stay awake and be filled with the Holy Spirit. Don't be led astray by the lying spirits of this age. God bless you.
On the point about prophesy, you say prophesy isn't always encouraging, like Bethel teaches. I'd love to hear your thoughts on 1 Corinthian 14:3, 'the person who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouragement and consolation.". Thanks Mike, love your heart in this video. Well done.
As a student leaving Bethel! Thank u so so much !!! I can feel the creepy in the room. The errors in the cracks. Which is fine but this is correct.
Justin Lowther could you share your story? It grieves my heart to see friends still there & not sure what else to say to warn them & encourage them to test the spirits & read their bible to see if truth is truly being told
@@srivera6111 Hi there! I finished 3 years of BSSM a few years ago and the simple answer I can give you is "encourage them to test the spirits and read their bible to see if truth is truly being told"!
I received a bunch from my time there, but honestly, considering how many different voices you listen to during a week - that being teachers, fellow students, sermons online, etc - there's bound to be some errors and even some creepy in there. The 1. Thessalonians 5-command is a great rule of thumb. "Test everything, hold on to the good", and remind yourself that when you honestly seek The Holy Spirit, you won't end up with a snake. He is able to guide us into all truth and preserve us in Him as long as He's our goal :)
Ask any questions you'd like.
I was prayed over and felt pressured to say as you said, that I felt better. What I did experience was a demonic presence during the time I attended this meeting. It was horrendous and I’ve never experienced anything so horrible before or after stopping going.
You certainly are demonically oppressed, I will grant you that, and part of that oppression is to deceitfully blame others for the foul spirit of which you are in bondage.
@@lightlover33 well if it wasn’t there before and isn’t there now, why would you say I’m deceitfully blaming others, when it only happened AFTER they prayed over me, so I’m not in “bondage” to it am I! What a strange reply, a bit creepy in itself to be honest.
@@lightlover33 how would you know that this person is demonically oppressed because of the reason you stated? Are you God to know such things?
l also had that feeling when the Rodney Brown movement was going on. Isn't that called discernment?
@@lightlover33 What is wrong with you?
David Pawson (recently deceased), is a sound bible teacher. And of course, yes, he has his imperfect teaching moments also. I have learnt a lot from him.
Great video. I’m charismatic, coming to Christ through a movement that also came up through experiential signs and wonders that had some odd things that I didn’t know what to make of. I later went to bible college for 4 years that aided in developing an understanding of how to correctly handle scripture and to do so humbly, not claiming to know it all but to consider different interpretations and study them, weighing all things up.
I’ve got friends who had gone to the Bethel school of ministry whether in USA or UK (I’m from the UK). There were some things I wondered about but didn’t think much until I heard a preach from Bill that completely, and obviously, twisted scripture and what it was saying. From that moment I was really concerned about them and stand back from them as a movement. Listening to your video I found helpful in hearing more of their theology. I really appreciate your approach too in that you didn’t come banging the drum in a vengeful, angry rant but rather thoughtful, analytical look at scripture, highlighting the good but also the serious and dangerous errors. Unfortunately we do have brothers and sister in Christ who post videos in a tone that doesn’t just question, but can be quite aggressive in the approach which doesn’t do any good as a witness to the outside world.
Christ taught that the world will know that we are His disciples by the fact we have love for one another, and I think this can be incredibly powerful when we are highlighting we disagree biblically but do it with a gentle, direct spirit. In this we both rebuke while honouring the individual. I think you do this brilliantly here. Thank you.
As Iron sharpens Iron
take the last paragraph and replace "biblically" with "denominationally" and you can make an even more detailed discernment on condemning, sympathizing, or encouraging..
This was an honorable conversation! Thanks for taking out time to put this together! So needed.
Your joke about your cat saying "Preach it be Mike, Preach it!" Was Hilarious!!! Lol. Youre a great teacher and Pastor brother, with the heart of Christ Jesus. Blessed to learn from you. Fod has given you a Wonderful Gift of Teaching. Thank you for all the hard diligent effort you take brother. God continue to bless you.
I just attended (my 1st) Global Awakening Conference in Birmingham, AL. It is truly inspiring to see this movement inspire..though I asked the Lord that if the healing was true (mine Acid Reflux from a Word of Knowledge given, didn't work) I wanted to see a young boy (Aiden) who was suffering with a form of physical disability, healed & I would believe this whole healing ministry. . that didn't happen. I found your examination to be so helpful. You can emotionally be taken over & I do believe I felt the presence of the Holy Spirit..but your examination helped me hold up my experience to the Word of God. His whole counsel. Thank you. Carol
I was at that same conference and I saw some healings and some misses. I haven’t listened to this whole video, but I have to say, most of the comments remind me of the Pharisees of old. If I don’t agree with someone’s theology, I move on. Focus on your own relationship with Christ and not tearing down other people. The church has become a joke because of all this infighting and division.
Bill sadly lost his wife to cancer just a short time after to leaving Bethel. I believe, both have professed the same believe that God wants to heal us if we will only believe Him for this healing.
It is not for me to say just how this has shifted his own understanding of healing for all.
God has a way to keep His own on the path of life, in deepening our understanding of His Word and His will for us. God help us all to walk before Him in all humility, to remain teachable.
Jesus is perfect theoloy, it's their theoloy of Jesus that isn't perfect! Thank you for this video Mike. 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Well said.
Well said.
Great distinction
Yes.
Amen
2 And his disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
3 Jesus answered, "It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him. - John 9:2-3
This is a good example I think of the purpose for healing. God does love us but it is also for God to be glorified.
You are very right about the purpose for healing. Everything God does is ultimately for His glory. And that explains why he sometimes chooses NOT to heal in this life. Some people find it hard to believe that God could get more glory through allowing a sickness or infirmity or injury to persist than He could through a direct and immediate healing, but in some cases, clearly He does. Have you ever heard of Joni Eareckson Tada? She is a quadriplegic, paralyzed in a diving accident. She has spent over 50 years in a wheelchair. Yet she has the fruit of the Spirit and is joyful despite her tough circumstances. And she has a global ministry to the disabled. Evidently God has not seen fit to heal her now. He will later. But sometimes we have too narrow an understanding of what brings God glory. We also tend to think in the short term rather than the long-term. God takes the long view.
Here I am three years after the fact but I am basically binge watching these videos.
Mike, thank you for your heart to equip believers to know what the bible actually says. At the beginning of this year (2021) I felt the Lord ask me to seek truth. I wasn't sure what this meant at first but as the year has gone on I have understood that a lot of my theology was based on what I was taught by people and not what I was reading in scripture. Though everything I was learning wasn't wrong- it wasn't all right. I so appreciate you and Alisa Childers and a few others who have caused me to dig into things I thought I knew and re-evaluate. The Lord has already brought clarity to me in a lot of areas and I know I have a long way to go but I am thankful for what I have learned so far. Thank you for your ministry!
Mike is awesome. ❤️
Some reasons for Unanswered prayers (David Guzik)
· Not abiding in Jesus (John 15:7).
· Unbelief (Matthew 17:20-21).
· Failure to fast (Matthew 17:21).
· Husband not honoring his wife (1 Peter 3:7).
· Not asking (James 4:2).
· Selfish praying (James 4:3).
· Disobedience (1 John 3:22).
· Not praying in God’s will (1 John 5:14-15).
· Unconfessed sin (James 5:16).
· Cold, passionless prayer (James 5:16-18; 2 Kings 20:5).
· Prayerlessness or a lack of persistence in prayer (Luke 18:1-7; Psalm 55:17).
· Sin against others (Matthew 5:23-24).
· Lack of unity (Matthew 18:19).
· Not praying in the name of Jesus (John 14:13-14).
· Pride (James 4:6, 1 Peter 5:5, Proverbs 3:34).
· Lying and deceitfulness (Psalm 17:1).
· Lack of Bible reading and Bible teaching (Proverbs 28:9).
· Trusting in the length or the form of prayer (Matthew 6:7).
This was SUCH a great, balanced breakdown of their teachings and theology. Thanks for this!
No one enculturated in Calvary Chapel minimalism is going to give a "balanced" perspective on Bethel. NT apostles are real, and they are NOT the equivalent of the 12 with authority to produce canon. Prophecy is ubiquitous according to I Cor 14. Practice of gifts is necessary for development of a gift. The Holy Spirit manifests today as He has manifested all through history in every recorded revival. Practicing the faith is a threat to those who think pontification is a greater gift to the church.
It’s interesting how he has to make the audience respond when he says something that’s not correct.
marssionary lol
I noticed that too..
I also noticed that! He actually waits for a response and if he doesn't get one he tells them to give him one.
@@ursulamichele1511 I noticed that as well
@@ursulamichele1511 sales 101. that's neither good nor bad in a biblical sense, but it is an important part of the art of effective communication.
This was a very gentle and biblical rebuke of some questionable theology. I really appreciate the effort you took to avoid an accusatory stance.
The fact that Bill Johnson could not see what spirit Todd Bentley was of told me that he cannot see as he claims to be able to any more than the prophets he hangs out with. His discernment cannot be trusted. Yet to not rebuke anybody who refers to him as an Apostle (as per Lakeland) says to me that he is either partially deaf or agrees with the title bestowed upon him. Johnson's blindness concerning Bentley and the sight that God gave me concerning him (as a baby Christian) led to me leaving my first fellowship after warning them that judgement was coming - they put their trust in Johnson's claimed ability to see what God was going to do through Bentley and to commission him for works of service. Sadly, that fellowship fell apart as surely as Lakeland fell apart. Bill Johnson does indeed have an enormously wide influence on and in the charismatic Body of Christ and he is hard to escape from even here in the UK.
When their pastor speaks and says something outlandish that they don’t know how to react to, they’re silent, and then he mocks them and implies that they’re thick for not getting it until they cheer. How manipulative
I have been observing Bethel and it's teachings for over 10 years and it just gets more and more disturbing.
CULT FOLLOWING, of an Arrogant Self-Promoting "minister". BILL JOHNSON LOVES THE SOUND OF HIS OWN VOICE!
Bethel church and Bill Johnson the head of this cult disturbing? Hang on to your pants they're going to get worse
Yet not one of you say why. I disagree with their end times theology but the majority of what is preached is right on. Most people that don't like them don't believe in the miracles that happen there. They are real and they don't charge a dime for it. Cancer, heart disease, crooked bones, and emotional problems healed and much more. They are not scared of letting doctors look at people and they don't say they have any special powers. The whole church is involved.
BEN CALVERT - this video & many other [SPECIFICALLY STATE] exactly who-what-when-where & why... It’s pretty clear you never bothered watching the video (so you don’t have much interest in beyond your own opinion it seems...)
@@artisanshrew But yet no one here can back up the the video or anything else they have have written. It is lies. I have listened to his preaching for several years now. I have visited Bethel church. I have met the man in person. Not one time have I been hypnotized by the man. Not one time have I heard heresy preached. Nor has he ever preached his way was the only way and he has never asked for money for being used by God for healing some one. I have read lies on here . I have read heresy written in the comments here. What I have read are comments from little people who do not know God. They sit in there pews on Sunday for an hour and think that is a great thing they have done for God. I am not saying they are not saved but they do not believe in the Bible or the stories they have read. Thy think God and His miracles ended when John the Apostle died but they are wrong and history proves them wrong.
Thank you for an unbiased and thoughtful review of bethel. I really enjoy bethels teachings but it makes me wary of false teachings mixed in with biblical ones. Thanks for no dramatic music or far reaches of “satanic influence” that so many other videos use.
It’s a hair thin line... To quote a Brother of mine. “ One degree off for a thousand miles can put you 1000 miles from your one destination.”
Experiences do not qualify The Truth! The Truth is the truth.
✝️❤️
Mike, thank you for this very balanced (not wacky) expose. I appreciate your scholarship and gracious tone.
Scholarship? MIke, you should have corrected them here. It's an opinion piece, not scholarship. ...tut tut
Miracles can be from Satan as well as God. " try the spirits to see whether they are of God." We are warned of false teachers who will perform lying signs and wonders. Those who teach lies are in league with the enemy. Embrace truth reject error.
"And the teachers of the
law who came down from
Jerusalem said, "He is
possessed by Beelzebul! By
the prince of demons he is
driving out demons.“
23 So Jesus called them over
to him and began to speak to
them in parables: "How can
Satan drive out Satan?
Mark 3...
Yes, agreed! But many things are up to interpretation of the Word. Also the different translations can have important differences. I want to be sure I’m on that right narrow path to the Kingdom of God, but it’s hard to know if you are with so much error or deception!
The Pharisees accused Jesus of healing by the power of Beelzebub. Remember His response was that that would be contradictory. If someone is preaching Jesus, even if they’re wrong about some theology, the devil won’t be healing in Jesus’ name. Jesus will.
@@carolyns1141 I thi k it's important to read a bible that has been translated not paraphrased
@@tristdrum I get where you are coming from with this, but the context of this passage is "by the prince of demons he is driving out demons". They did not come against Jesus saying that His healing is of Satan, rather they said that He was driving out other demons by the power of the leader of demons. Nor does Jesus talk about healing. He keeps it specifically in the realm of driving out demons. "For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, the elect" Matthew 24:24. This directly shows that Satan can perform signs and wonders. Also look at: 2 Thess 2:9, Rev 13:13, Rev 16:14, Rev 19:20, and Deut 13:1-2.
That was a beautiful and spirit inspired summary at the end Mike. People ARE hungry to see the real power of God speak and act in our great need in this generation. Let us pray and believe for the real thing, and not accept any man made substitutes.
... are you saying that there is no Real manifestation of our Lord in your life and Church ... so we have to begin to pray for it ?
My Brother in Christ, thank you so much for caring about the truth to do this. God bless brother. In gratitude