Baldur's Gate 3: What if you murder Shadowheart in front of Nightsong?
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2024
- Baldur's Gate 3, what if we murder Shadowheart in front of Nightsong?
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"Fie! what sickness plagues Faerûn?" - Nightsong
I wonder what language "Fie" is taken from in the context of that dialogue... In romanian, which has latin roots -- it means "so be it"
@@ghipsandrew It's taken from English.
@@ghipsandrewIt's Shakespearean English, an expression of contempt.
What happens if you kill her with the spear? Does the lady of loss talk to you?
Minthara and Laezel: “fight, fight, fight!”
Minthara just having a lol watching this play out.
A Lolth*
@@Nefhith1337 Lolth
Really good acting from Nightsong VA here, actually. I've never talked to her this much here, but now I can clearly see it.
She talks alot. Especially about her "activities" in bed.
I absolutely love her inside here but in act 3 i dont like her very much. Just feels like she has a self righteous boner.i mean completely justified after being stuck and killed a thosand years or whatever but she was so bad ass here then felt one-note later, it made me sad :(
I haven't come across a single bad voice line in the game so far. Maybe there's some, but Larian really did have high standards.
tears well in my eyes every time she gets freed, her speech and movements are so powerful. it's very relatable.
@@DesertDuc There was one moment that made me think "fuck man, put some heart into it", but that was a random side npc with a single line of dialogue when you interact with him.
By and large, the voice acting is fantastic.
Did this as a cleric of selune and her love interest. Broke my heart but felt good for the dramatics
As far as I know a romanced Shart throws the spear away herself. I always managed to pass her speach checks myself though. First time I got lucky and after that I always take advantage perks and all 4 rerolls. Though the next I'm going for her throwing the spear on her own. I always end up romancing her.
Its any good approval not just romance @tomn.9987
@tomn.9987 a non romanced Shadowheart will spare the Nightsong too if her apprioval is high enough and you don't allow her to pray at Shar's temple.
@@chriskelly9476 You must not allow her to pray?
@tomn.9987 thats what I found in my playthroughs, anyway. I had neutral approval, never stopped her from praying and I also told her not to go through with killing the Nightsong. She did. Next playthrough (not romanced) with high approval, I didn't allow her to pray at the shrine (near Balthazar's hideout) and I let her make her own decision about Nightsong and she spared her.
I did the same thing as the author of the video. After killing Shadowheart, I put her corpse in my inventory. After leaving the location, Shadowheart's corpse fell out of my backpack. She was bruised and naked and attacked me. I was very surprised. O_o
"How long did you practice that speech Arryn?" "Until it was perfect"
All the nightsong did on my play through was talk about killing,sex and just hung out at my camp 😂
Good for her!
Isn't that basically most of the gods
I personally enjoyed throwing SH off the cliff here and into the depths.
"Join your Mistress in Darkness!" - Dirge Barbarian
2 things:
1) HUGE thanks for the mod list of yours. I added a bunch of them to my tracked list over on Nexus, which I'll likely be using on my first (modded & honor mode XP) playthrough.
2) Now that I subbed to you, you no longer have 666 subs. ;D
Hmm. After SH is ☠ Nightsong's convo with Tav almost seems more like it was meant for SH not the person who 💀 SH
who couldve tought
There was cut content where you could also play as a sharran (when you chose which god to follow). Its accessable through mods again
I read all the books I found in the gauntlet of Shar; her responses seem on point. For a century she's been imprisoned here with Sharrans killing her to become Dark Justiciars; she is addressing the player as if you're just the latest to come do that.
You can tell the dialog was clearly meant for Shadowheart, the NPCs NEVER call Val a girl or boy, whereas here she calls her "a good girl."
@@legendsofmichael4315 I’m not so sure about that, I think I’ve been called a lass/lad by NPCs before? 🤔
Shadow Heart never heard of the term “action economy”
So if we are a cleric of shar do we become a dark justiciar 👀👀👀 asking for science
It's not possible for Tav to serve Shar, unless you play as Shadowheart
@sakuraninomiya5691 dang it lol I have picked her a diety and was a cleric but never really read too much into it. Basically randomized when clicking dieties lol
@@sakuraninomiya5691you actually can :It was cut content which can be restored.. through the power of mods.
Anyone can become one yeah, even Selûnites. Just take her out at range and you’ll get the dj tag. Look it up if you want
@@4m4n40 👀👀👀 I might have to do my evil play through like did
One thing I don’t quite understand about this quest in particular is how later on Aylin explains how Ketheric had wannabe Dark Judiciers “kill” her in order to become true Dark Judiciers.
But when Shadowheart stabs her, she dies permanently and Ketheric loses his power.
Did the other Judiciers not use the spear of Night?
But even then that doesn’t explain why Shar wanted Shadowheart to permanently kill Aylin.
>Did the other Judiciers not use the spear of Night?
No
>But even then that doesn’t explain why Shar wanted Shadowheart to permanently kill Aylin.
Evil gods are stupid.
Shadowheart was groomed to become Shar's Chosen, as Ketheric was before. Shadowheart was meant to kill Ketheric for Shar, but in order to do that, the Nightsong had to be killed.
But, since Kethric needed to die permanently, so did the Nightsong this time. Before, Ketheric was still a Sharran, and so new Dark Justiciars would kill and re-kill Aylin to ascend to that position, until Ketheric betrayed Shar and became Myrkul's Chosen instead.
Shadowheart is only capable of killing Aylin permanently because Shar wanted it done, and empowered Shadowheart through the Spear of Night, which was the ritual tool used to kill the Nightsong again and again. Only in this case, the Spear was amped up for the purpose of slaying the Daughter of Selune permanently.
She wanted Shadowheart to Kill her because Ketheric was a Selunite who got corrupted by Shar but then turned on a dime for Myrkul. It was Shars way of punishing him for turning from her.
yea, Shar wanted Shadowheart to be the one to do it because it'd be like an extra huge middle finger to Selûne. I guess afterwards Dark Justiciars would just have to prove themselves by doing some other silly trial
TL;DR Yes, the gods truly are this petty
@@graysonb_designs I don't think the Spear of Night was used as a ritual weapon by all Dark Justiciars. There are books in the Silent Library that talk about how the Spear was guarded, even from Sharrans; how most Sharrans should be proud to merely keep it safe, because it was awaiting its intended user. One book even warns Dark Justiciars away from trying to find it and use it, because to do so would go against their lady's will. Only one Sharran is ever supposed to wield the Spear, and that's Shadowheart.
I also think (but now we're getting into speculation) that Shar wanted Shadowheart to permanently kill Aylin more as a symbolic gesture than as a means of destroying Ketheric, though that could have been part of it. I think this is all part of Shar's grand (and petty) plan to prove dominance over her sister by taking a young Selunite (Shadowheart) and turning her into not just any Dark Justiciar, but Shar's Chosen. Having Shadowheart kill Aylin for good would not only symbolize that she had completely turned from Selune, but also be a gesture of Shar's lasting victory over Selune (her Chosen finally killed the supposedly immortal daughter of Selune), as well as demonstrating Shadowheart's ascension above all other Justiciars. It marks the overcoming of an obstacle (Aylin's immortality) and a permanent change in Shar's church. New Justiciars would probably need to find a mortal follower of Selune to slay after completing the Gauntlet, which I'd guess is what happened before Ketheric trapped Aylin and she became their ritual sacrifice.
Now behold the Nightsong!!!!!!! As she proceeds to be absolutely useless vs kethric.
Give her haste and she gets rid of him without you
It’s funny, against Ketheric at the top of Moonrise she opted to go attack the ghouls rather than him and got dumpstered. But for the avatar of Myrkul she basically solo’d him.
She was actually pretty helpful for me 🤷♂️
@@brook_angel but she rizzes up against myrkul 😅
The AI, like in many other games, is weak with all NPCs. Maybe she could have been given some healing effect, but it's the style of BG3 that everyone who isn't part of the group dies quickly.
That being said, she wasn't entirely useless in my fight alongside Shadowheart against Ketheric. It was close, so her activity was important, although of course you imagine much more epic things when the characters are introduced and make their appearance.
Easiest companion to kill.
I can't be an asshole even in games so I never saw this on 4+ playthroughs. Just feels so.... terrible. I can kill assholes all day but never knowingly an innocent.
Shadowheart's an innocent, now? 😅
@@damien678 Maybe not, but she's certainly a victim of Shar's plans.
I haven't gotten this far with a cleric I am playing (I have beaten the game). She's a cleric of Selune. I'm curious if she gets special dialog.
People still say Lae'zel and SH are a good couple, but again and again the game shows us that they just tolerate each other bc of the bigger problem
This might be also because this Tav’s relationship with Shadowheart is not that strong. I’ve always come to this section at “Exceptional” approval from both. It’s Tav/Durge who encourage the two of them to put aside their differences to work together but first they’d need to foster bonds with both. Shadowheart and Lae’zel have no more petty dialogue after Act 1, and are quite civil.
And they really would. Once you play more of the game, you see they’re actually quite similar.
Spoilers:
Shadowheart: Tricked into worshipping a god who lied to her, wanting to be validated by that god and placed at her highest honor, is actually more understanding and friendlier than her fellow sharrans, puts on an act to seem tough but is actually sweet underneath
Lazel: tricked by her god, wants to be put in her highest honor, is very friendly considering her race, pretends to be tough and unforgiving but is actually a sweetheart underneath
They’re literally the same. Once they start to realize how similar they are, they foster this interesting friendship. Shadowheart is mischievous and can see the fun in things, while lazel is serious and too the point. It’s a nice balance and would be a very interesting relationship dynamic.
Ah, the spice of shipping!
I disagree with that. Shart is racist and hates Lae by extension for being biologically associated with the people who killed her friends.
@@channel45853 I don’t think she hates Lae’zel, especially after Act 1. And she’s not “racist”, racism implies an irrational prejudice. Githyanki are notorious for their extreme violence and xenophobia, and we see them act horribly all game. First Voss has his dragon slaughter a crowd of Flaming Fist at the bridge for no reason, believes we as LZ are with her as “slaves”, manipulate LZ into nearly killing herself in the Zaithisk, manipulate LZ into attempting to kill Orpheus yet sought to kill her right afterwards, imprisoned Orpheus in the first place, Vlaakith consumes the life force of her subjects and indoctrinates them. None of this exactly paints the prettiest picture of them, even LZ starts off callous and bloodthirsty and she is actually one of the nicest, tamest of her kind! LZ is also the one who instigates with Shads - first, by insisting she be left behind on the Nautiloid, treating her and Tav/Origin like her foot soldiers, abandoning them to run off into the wilderness when they crash. Then she is also the one who demands a duel to the death for the artefact. Shads is more than cordial with her considering her obvious discomfort with her presence and that’s mainly because she’s carrying something she stole from LZ’s people NOT racism.
How dare you killing Shadowcute :)
Sweetheart
First time I've played BG3 and I just got to this scene last night, thing is, when we landed to see the Nightsong, Shadowheart landed just on the edge of the platform, so when the fight started, I was curious to try shoving her and see what would happen, I figured that there would be some special dynamic set in place to prevent that kind of move.
Turns out... Not so, not so at all, shortest fight I've ever had in the game so far. Also not entirely sure if I missed something with her dialog to save her.
surprisingly, you gotta let her roll with it. nightsong does most of the convincing
@@battyrae1398 ah hah! Thanks for the reply! I guess I'll have to try on a future playthrough
Honestly if you do nothing Shadowheart actually choose to not kill the Nightsong on her own, if you goad her into killing her then yes of couse she becomes a Dark Justiciar, but if you stay silent she will choose to spare her.
@@Karomix3 Good to know! I actually started a new playthrough and I'm about to enter the gauntlet again, I've been mindful to check on her often and seems we have a good relationship, so crossing fingers!
@@Vecna Good for you. Though let me tell you that while Shadowheart as a Selunite is good for her, the spear she gets doesn't compare to the one she gets if she becomes a Dark Justiciar.
Wait... Are you an actual Sharran here or is she just making assumptions? Cause those accusations got me bristling like "woh, watch yer tongue, I ain't no stinkin Sharran!"
You can't choose to worship Shar, she's just making the perfectly rational assumption that anyone who willingly travels with a Sharran to kill her is a fellow Sharran.
@@SingAboutSwayze Gotyeh. I wasn't sure if it was a background thing some classes could choose. Have only played the game as a Dwarven fighter, half Elf bard and nonLolth Drow wizard.
@@shakyrob6512 If you end up playing as a cleric you'll get to choose which god you worship; it comes up in conversation occasionally. If you're on PC there's a mod to let everyone choose a god for that purpose and it still comes up in conversation. It's mostly completely freeform with a couple of exceptions; non-lolth drow can't worship lolth, lolthsworn can only worship lolth iirc, but you cannot choose Shar with any combination of race/subrace in the base game.
You could play as a cleric of Shar in Early Access, and there was datamined dialogues for this scene as a Cleric of Shar, but that was cut along with most of the other evil deity options, so in the release version it comes off as her just making assumptions.
@@catoblepasomega What other evil deity options were there? There's currently Ladaguer, Vlaakith, Talos, Tiamat, Gruumsh, and Lolth on the evil end of the spectrum. That seems like plenty to me.
Too little reaction. A dialogue saying she better be worth the ally you had to kill to free her or something would be too much to ask?
The first time I played I did this because I thought there was no other way to stop her.
it was funny.
My big buff lady barbarian had a relationship going with SH at this point. I was playing with my friend as well who didn't like SH too much. The moment she said to me that she'd step over my corpse I grinned and asked my friend to step back. Poor SH did not last even 1 turn
*Lae'zel approves*
Thanks for this. There is no world where I could bring myself to kill Shadowheart. :D
At that part I was undecided If I wanted to pursue Karlach or Shadowhearth with my character. I had them both in my team, but when Shadowhearth started saying that she would kill me with no hesitation If I tried to stop her... Let's just say now I'm with Karlach
Monk build? 🙏
Yeah my cleric of Bahamut had to do this in my playthrough last night 💀 I had 75% approval or above with literally EVERY companion but Shadowheart 💀 (it's fine because my cleric is gay & romancing Astarion anyway) and couldn't convince her not to kill Aaylin. Oh well.
why did we need to know if your cleric was gay? nobody ask lmao
Ngl I can't kill Shadowheart because I need that evil spear, such a good weapon for the end of act 2 and 3.
Wow, didn't know that was even an option!
does anything change if you use non lethal knockout on her?
Tried it on my Selûne cleric, and no. She’s just knocked out and stays there. You can’t recruit her again.
When fighting with shadowheart can you turn on non lethal attacks and will that work put so you still have her?
I've never had to fight her before
She will be permanently removed from the party
Yea idk how shadowheart THOUGHT that was gonna go. She has seen how lethal and effective Tav is the whole game and the healer thought she could take the MC? She deserved death for lack of forethought
"The healer." Clerics are one of the most powerful classes, and one of the most useful classes to dip into for multiclassing.
Clerics have a lot of powerful offensive abilities. Spiritual Weapon, Spirit Guardian, and Guardian of Faith to name a few. Then you have Tempest Clerics and their ability to make Thunder/Lightning abilities do max damage, or War Priests and their bonus action attacks. If all you used Clerics for is healing, then that's on you.
Somehow this path seems better than trying to turn Shadowheart.
The best outcome of many Origin Stories seems to be their death.
What do you think happens to her parents once you do that.
@@kamilgromek3817 I mean it's a better story, not that the outcome is better.
2:27 Doesn't this confirm that Shadowheart is the only one who can kill the nightsong for good?
What if playing as Shar's cleric and kill Nightsong self?
your outfit is so sweet
Where is this outfit? I want same. 😍
How do you get those cool outfits and weapons?
Mods can be found on my Blog (in descriptions)
Forced into this my first few play throughs. I actually had to research how to NOT kill SH this time. Eventually, I stopped playing her all together. Such a drag.
Just get her approval high enough, you dont need to even romance her. If your approval is high enough she will free Nightsong herself. Thats what I always did, just be understanding towards her religion and past, dont do evil choices and you get her approval pretty high up until you reach Shars temple.
"How to NOT kill Shadowheart?" All you literally have to do is generally not be an a-hole, and not rag on Shar or Sharrans when talking to Shadowheart. Shadowheart will just choose to not kill Aylin herself as long as you don't try to stop her.
That or just...actually pass the persuasion check... It's not exactly rocket science.
You don't have to do anything. Just leave the spear at camp
What mod is that outfit from!? I love it
@@dungeonsanddioramas8068 link adds in the description
It seems like Shadowheart kills herself by successfully casting hold person on you. How does this kill her?
They reacted with psionic backlash, which triggered cull the weak and instakilled shadowheart because she was at low enough health
Yep, I was trying to make her not evil and she was like "No! I'm going to murder this celestial of a good god!" and my dwarf was like "Well ok, you die then."
Wait, so even if Shadowheart kills the Nightsong with the spear she still comes back eventually? What’s even the point then?
Since the Nightsong is Seluné's daughter it's mostly symbolic. Shar has every dark justiciar kill the Nightsong to complete their trials so it makes sense that Aylin just comes back to life so the next little Sharran can waltz in and kill her again.
Gameplay-wise it just gives the benefits of choosing the dark route for most characters. You get a decent weapon and the Shart quest plays out differently in act 3, but you lose the opportunity for a few allies in the final battle (Aylin, Isobel, and Rolan I think)
She won't come back. It's explained in the books found throughout the Gauntlet of Shar (or only in the library?) that the Spear had been kept away from other Sharrans/Dark Justiciars and was basically meant for a "chosen one", that it was an honor for Sharrans to guard it. The wannabe Dark Justiciars of previous generations would use other weapons, kill her temporarily, only for her to come back to life.
It's the use of that Spear, possibly as well as Shar's blessing, that lets Shadowheart (and I guess Tav/Durge/other origin characters if Shadowheart isn't with you in the Shadowfell or you turn on her there) permanently kill Nightsong/Dame Aylin.
What glowing green hammer is this?
Greatclub bought in Moonrise Tower vendors
What clothes mod your Tav is wearing?
It's added by a mod. Modlist on my Blog (link is in descriptions)
Can you revive SH after that?
No longer available. cause the game makes her story end.
Shadowheart is so annoying wgen she does that. It litteraly goes on my nerves
"You're trying to stop me from fulfilling the destiny my literal Goddess gave to me (that I've been brainwashed since childhood to believe in)!"
You: Jeez, what's your deal?
@@AirLancer Exactly. Stop annoying me
how are you level 13
Hi, It's modded, can reach level 30
3vs1 hardly seems honorable lol
LOL, I forgot Aylin was a girl... Modded that out.
She always be
@@ElenaBG3 Yeah, like I said, I modded that out. In my playthroughs, Aylin is a guy.
Gay
Ew
What your armor wearing for shadowhart and dye color? Thanks
Guardian Armor (Can be looted in Final Battle... I used a mod to get it early lol)
I ended up doing the same thing. I even had decent approval with Shart, but DC30 persuasion was a bit much. Okay, I could have maybe trusted her to do the right thing, but despite having ok approval, I didn't really trust her. Beyond that, the choice is to either let her do what she wants or escalate and kill her. But hey, at least the shadow curse got lifted, even if Shart's goth phase ended up being permanent.
It's not hard ot skip the roll. Look up shart's nightsong triggers. there's about 4 story points that I you get, you'll have fueled her doubt enough for her to make the choice on her own.
@@imaansayed8147 Yeah I know about the mechanics now, but I didn't back then and I didn't really trust her anyway.
@@Ripulintuoja rereading your initial comment thats obvious. Sorry for the accidental overexplain :P I read too fast sometimes haha
@@imaansayed8147 No worries, happens to me too.
It is not because of approval the dc30 was. There are "nightsong points..."... there's a video here about them...
All the toxic girls too lol
This happened on my last playthrough. I’m guessing there’s a way to save Dame Alyn without having to kill Shadowheart. Right?
Yes, through certain dialogue options in act 1 you can make her doubt her beliefs enough that if you trust her to do the right thing she will throw the spear away and free Dame Aylin
yeah you can either convince her (though you need to roll a critical success) or if you make her doubt her beliefs she will spare dame aylin on her own if you choose to trust her
It's actually the most common path. If you have high relationship you don't even have to pass a skill check, you just have to slightly nudge her, back down, let her decide and she'll throw the spear into the void.
god imma love discarding SH as Durge
nah. I'd kill shart in front of nightsong, then kill nightsong myself. Tav's the main protagonist and shart's just came along for the ride. an npc.
Песня ночи бесполезна и нужна только для того, чтобы выжил Даммон. 😂
Unfortunately to me BG3 seems shallow. This could or basically IS a pretty big decision. In fact the whole temple and mission is. Yet no matter what you choose you still get almost the same outcome. And absolutely the same story. I tried being evil, joining the absolute, but still had to fight Balthazar and Ketheric.
If you joined Ketheric and he stays alive, then Act 3 basically can't happen since without him dying and losing his Netherstone to you, the Chosen of the Dead Three wouldn't lose control over the Absolute.
Not to mention having the Astral Prism is literally the only thing keeping you from falling under the Absolute's control, and they're not going to be like "oh well you're cool with us so I guess you can keep it." It's the only thing in existence that can stop their plans (besides Gale's nuke but they don't know about that).
If you're wondering "why not just let you join them as equals," it's because they're the Chosen of their gods and once they find out you have the Prism, they have no reason whatsoever to believe that you'll be able to stop them from taking it from you by force. "Sharing power" isn't part of their M.O. until you kill Ketheric, which shows Gortash it'd be smarter to get you on his side instead of fighting. Even Ketheric was going to betray the other two, so why would he accept you as allies instead of just taking the Prism back right then and there so he can keep it as leverage against Gortash and Orin?
Besides, in order to join Ketheric, Act 3 would have to be completely different which just isn't realistic to have.
i did it it was great lol
You guys are making it much too hard for yourself. It can be way easier if you play a good Tav
All you need is high approval. Then just picking the option to trust Shart does the trick.
I did that as Mystran Benedict Bard. I didn’t romance her, and it worked for me. Guess what happened? She threw away the spear 😂
It’s a RPG, what you find easy might not be as enjoyable to others
@@tacoboutit_ And because it is an RPG and my character got along well with her, despite the differences, she trusted her. There you go, i have been a roleplayer simce 1991 actually ;)
@@MoonsongReverb congrats I guess? What’s good for YOU isn’t always going to be good for someone else. People moralities are different and their play styles. If someone is making it hard on themselves maybe they just like it that way. Your way is not the definite way.
@@tacoboutit_ You are repeating yourself and interpreting too much into my words. But i‘m not in the mood to discuss with you atm
@@MoonsongReverb repeating myself cus you’re not getting the point but go off
I actually hated Nightsong, very stupid and bullheadead girl boss that has been put into peoples minds zillion times over by now...
But in the sake of my good ending run i persuaded Shadowheart not to kill her then regretted every second of that decision until the game is over...
I know what you mean. She's obnoxious and the lesbian stuff is way too in your face. This game has weak writing, but the game engine is somewhat fun.
@@nuhuh4564 i dont think the game has that weak writting but i agree after 7-9th playthrough i just want to kill her honestly i also love to kill that lying girlfriends of hers !!
True. It's ok for a first playthrough. But the never-ending self-righteous monologues after KT's down are just unbearable. The scene when Aylin is rageously crushing KT's head when he's eventually down is so ridiculous it becomes funny, though. Also, i do appreciate personally the lesbian selunites if you refrain speaking to them. As a whole, it"s the transition from act 2 to act 3 that has a lower writing than the rest of the game, it feels like you're channeled by force into act 3, independently of your role-play.