The Risks Of Being Assertive With A Narcissist
Вставка
- Опубліковано 16 лют 2022
- Even in the best of relationships, conflict happens, requiring you to address differences assertively. Dr. Les Carter underscores how it is even more essential to be assertive when the other person has a strong narcissistic bent. That understood, you will also need to prepare for the predictable backlash. Narcissists want to draw you into a competition, and invalidation is one of their favorite "winning" strategies. There are, however, ways to minimize the risks involved in standing your ground, so that's what will be highlighted in this session.
To read the article version of this topic, go to survivingnarcissism.tv/the-ri...
Sign up for Dr. Carter's course Free to Be HERE:
survivingnarcissism.tv/go/fre...
Use the following coupon code to get 20% off Free To Be: FTBUA-cam20
Dr. Carter's new course: This Is Me: Setting Boundaries With The Controllers In Your Life: survivingnarcissism.tv/this-i...
Join our Community HERE: survivingnarcissism.tv/subscr...
Dr. Les Carter is a best selling author and therapist who has semi-retired to Waco, Tx. In the past 40+ years he has conducted more than 65,000 counseling sessions and many workshops and seminars. He specializes in anger management and narcissistic personality disorder.
If you are interested in online therapy, Dr. Carter has a sponsor who can assist. As the need is there, please seek the help you deserve: betterhelp.com/drcarter
We receive commissions on referrals to BetterHelp. We only recommend services that we trust.
Sign up for our email list and check out other videos, articles, webinars, quizzes, and more at our website: survivingnarcissism.tv
Twitter: Surviving Narcissism @SNarcissism101
Instagram: @survivingnarcissism101
Tik Tok: www.tiktok.com/@survivingnarc...
Dr. Carter's personal website: drlescarter.com/
Dr. Carter's other UA-cam channel: / drlescarter
Bookstore: survivingnarcissism.tv/books-...
What I noticed with a narc is this. They have a fight with you because maybe you don't agree with them on something etc. and they get very vicious. Then afterwards, you try to talk to them calmly about it. What happens is, they will lie about what happened. And twist it around and make it look like YOU attacked them first, and so you deserved your abuse. And they will come up with an elaborate story about you attacking them and they will stick to it. But you know they know it's a lie the whole time. It's very frustrating.
Classic gaslighting. I find myself wondering whether the narc truly believes their own false narrative when they do this, or they're knowingly and consciously lying. Based on the behavior of the narcs I've interacted with, it honestly feels like the former.
This is what happened with my sister. 🥴
"Frustrating" may be an understatement, Sara. To some of us it becomes maddening. We are fortunate to have found Dr Carter and Gus in our search for answers and peace of mind.
I’ve been there So have lived this over and over and over
Omg! Yes! This has happened to me so many times! I have literally pulled my hair out of the frustration.
Expect punishment in one form or another, it will happen. Narcs will not take assertiveness at all, they consider it an attack, no matter how benign you are.
Exactly!!!
Truth!
My narc would give me the silent treatment as my “punishment” for days and days until I apologized and asked for forgiveness.🙄 And if my apology wasn’t good enough he’d continue the silent treatment until my apology was more authentic. Can’t believe I put up with his bs for so long!! Glad I’m out and free!!
Sadly true.
Too bad. They can't punish me. Im the one that has the control. Im the one that pays her rent. I could easily find somewhere else to live.
"Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.". ― George Bernard Shaw.
The same advice holds true for narcissists. Don't walk away---RUN!
ASAP for sure. Sometimes running away from a narcissist only makes them that more aggressive and at best from then on they are going to be often so disruptive of your workflow too then from there it becomes impossible to succeed only because you tried to run out the door instead of feeding them first in the exact way they expected you to do in their over developed collective sense of entitlement while they were watching and trying to take advantage of you. It is like choosing to run while coming across a hungry bear or a family of hungry bears during a camping overnight trip when you are alone in the great outdoors. Think about it. Why do you think the singer Madonna right now while not being of retirement age yet is willing to offer up only flashes of nudity to go along with her singing on stage now that she is over age 60 instead of keeping everyone including any narcissists who might be there too guessing about what she looks like in the buff now too both on or off the stage? After getting pregnant out of wedlock and then deciding to keep her baby instead of giving it up for adoption like Dolly Parton had to do instead before she was successful in the same way to earn a good enough living for her to bring up a child alone?
Yes. And never look back. Never. They will never change. Never.
Some are such covert Narcs that you don't recognize them as a narc until you are neck deep in it. And the bonds are tight. It's a tough journey.
"Never wrestle with the pig...UNLESS you intend on slaughtering it."
Thanks for the giggle , haven't laughed in a while.
When you stop sacrificing yourself for those who walk all over you again and again, that's assertiveness.
amen my friend. thats what i keep trying to get across to people who are having a hard time leaving. we've been there and done that - probably repeatedly. When is it enough? I would rather pluck nose hairs (which I've never done but it looks ooohh so bad) than deal with a narc. I have chosen to be alone rather than contend with the world of snarky, sharky narcs.
How pathetic have i been, feeling guilty when I see the defeated look on their face when they see me stand up for myself and refuse to sacrifice myself once again. Then I try and rescue them from the consequence of their behavior, only for them to throw to the wolves once again. And the cycle repeats.
I endured the wrath of Satan when I tried to be assertive! Walk away is really the only way.
The retaliation phase is most dangerous.
But why i dont understand them🤦♀️ my dad never told me dont take 💩 from anyone that treats you this certain way.
Any kind of assertiveness is seen as a direct challenge by them. Because as we know, they’re not to be challenged, disagreed with, etc
👍 👍 👍
I wish my brother's eyes will be opened to what she is doing to him. Because she makes him believe she is the best thing in the whole world and she so loves him. Hence, she doesn't want me around as I realize what she is up to - trying to kill him to get what he has worked sooo hard for
That final year, instead of crying at his verbal attacks and raised voice, I’d say, “Don’t talk to me like that. It’s disrespectful”. He’d glare at me and stomp out of the room. I think that’s when he decided to “discard” and began to punish me with the silent treatment, ignoring me and other bizarre, “I don’t need you” type of behaviors. He would throw in some nice words and gestures here and there (“breadcrumbing”) to keep me confused and hopeful. I still stayed. Finally he staged a monumental rage one night. That was it for me. In hindsight, I think he was done with me when I started standing up for myself instead of cowering in fear. I finally left.
Good for you !! I would welcome silent treatment, I prefer it to the constant criticism from an immature adult.
Exact Scenario same here …
👍 👍 👍
Thats exactly it, you became a Narc repellent!
I'm so glad you got out of there.
Aloha🌺 Thank you for your excellent and insightful comment. I am sorry you endured such abuse and confusion and happy you escaped. I believe a narcissist will use any tactic to extract pain and the very life from their target. I have learned that pathological narcissism is a trauma response to prolonged childhood abuse, like physical, overindulgence or neglect.
A narcissist projects their pain unto their target, demanding their own relief by witnessing the pain, confusion and suffering in another. It is a cycle of narcissistic abuse within them reenacted with those closest to them (mostly) which is never satisfied and never ends. As you aptly mentioned, they will rage, insult, control, humiliate, confuse or even revert to silence if all else fails, in order to inflict pain and drain your life. The only possible ultimate victory is to walk away completely, whenever possible. Enjoy your victory!!
Don't ever feel sorry for them...they're only 'hurt' because their bullying hasn't got them their ego worship...that they oh, so, 'deserve'.
We've all got hurt, but we don't all pick-on or be a bully! That's just being nasty!
Very true.
I needed this. I usually feel sorry for him and rush to make mends and fawn.. :/
Yeah, and I am OVER worrying about these half dead entities, the narcs near me better watch their backs 'cause I am over the temper tantrums and entitlement!!! Paying them dust from now on!!!
yes although i don't want to start acting like a narcistic abuser... and actually ive been looking into this for almost 10 years and from what i see narcism is a result of childhood post traumatic stress disorder ptsd . and a breakdown in our entire social fabric. . it's really sad. at the end of the day.
@@jesusislukeskywalker4294 I hear you, I would never let them change who I am, but I find when you give someone back the same energy, they are usually REPELLED by the relection of their own behaviour, now ain't that funny?!! I'm not talking about being physically violent, I'm talking about the subtle things, the disinterest, the mind games, the making everything about them...try it and see how quickly they will move on and take their ptsd with them. We all have childhood traumas, may we all heal, I know part of my healing is to no longer be a victim of the heartless users among us, cause I have PTSD from dealing with their PTSD!!🤣
I am grateful to the comments of those who have shared the decsription of the madness that was survived. I don't have anything to add, save to emphasize the similarities in the struggles. Here's to Team Healthy!
💚💜💚💜
@@petekdemircioglu a
I don't buy the notion that creatures who become narcissists turn out that way because they have been hurt. If anyone can tell me of a person that exists who has not been hurt then I'll fall off my chair. When are we going to get to the stage when we stop offering excuses for evil? My understanding is that it is not known why a narcissist becomes a narcissist. Their behaviour is so extreme that I find it difficult to grasp that the environment was the cause of it. Also, if a narcissist goes to therapy and the therapist addresses their issues of hurt, why is it that narcissists then don't stop being a narcissists. Nah, no one is gonna get by me a story that hurt is causing their disgusting narcissism.
@@raccuia1: joseph, do you have a notion on why certain (if not many) people become *nar.....t* or *nar......tic?❓*
learning more and more, it is evident that this happens/starts quite young.
💞💞💞🌹🙏🙏To hell with the narcs🎭 fake basterds 👞
The narc in my life becomes a coward when confronted, usually just walks away because they can’t face me. Which is entertaining because they dish it out but when it gets dishes back they can’t handle it. Pathetic
I’m so sorry you are married to a narc! Mine is my sister So the dynamic is different but she is so infuriating with her selfish behavior and her never taking responsibility for her actions.
Or they turn on the crocodile tears 😭
Isn’t it Melissa? This is a good session from Dr C
Go girl their all petulant 6 year old bullies, no backbone though.
My Mom cannot answer when I ask her to explain why she treats me the way she does. She pretends that I "don't want" to hear the truth, but the reality is she has no explanation, NOTHING TO SAY--she did what she did because she was jealous and insecure, and thus had to try to destroy me. I really nailed it, though, with a rational, thoughtful, careful exposition and let her know I see right through her. I don't mind because she has already hurt me in the worst possible way. There is nothing left to lose, so I stand up for myself anyway.
These people are filled with demons. They’re predators in the spiritual war.
I have come to acknowledge this fact. It's mind boggling.
Truth.
Yes they are, in Biblical theology Narcissim is known by another name "Jezebel spirit".
@Mary Carroll I agree I have several in my family, I stepped back and gave them up to God only HE can help them now because so far they have destroyed just about every single relationship with EVERYONE they came across that includes other family members.
It is a terrible thing to be.😔
Being assertive ,polite, got me no where ! Had to Completely cut ties . I do not do nastiness and being sworn at , not my style, not who I am . All I would like is peace , food on the table , comfort and no trauma in my life . Love nature love animals , love people , always happy to listen but not be a way for another person to release their anger to .I am learning so much from these informative videos, a big thank you 😊
/w\OneLove/w\
Same 🙏 how do the narcs find us??
@@christinapsalmist4267 they find you because that's what they are looking for, someone unwilling to show teeth, unwilling to fight, someone who wish to live their lives as a prey, remember that humans are predators, apex predators, you must show teeth, you must show willingness to fight, that way they will never bother you. So this is exactly what you should never think about yourself, embrace both sides of who you are. If you are still unwilling to stand up for yourself and assert who you are then make sure you have strong people around you willing to protect you. Women are caregivers, they give life and love to us all whilst men are warriors, they fight to preserve all that is good, just make sure your warrior is a force for good.
If you want to understand this from a logical perspective, the Wikipedia page on prisoner's dilemma explains it really well, narcissists are people who play this game of life with an anti-social strategy, called a nasty strategy. They prey on people who always say yes, are kind hearted, it's meant to exploit this vulnerability we all have, the solution is get rid of the vulnerability by changing your outlook on life to be a game of tit for tat, blow for blow, you are good to good people, bad to bad people. Positive to positivity, negative to negativity, that way narcissists will never bother you again.
Take care, stay strong! :)
@@Deucely logical, getting stronger and less of a pushover . Really don't do the drama it's so tiring. I just need peace . I really find the way that they throw things at you that are long forgotten and unimportant so exhausting. There is no middle ground with them . Everything is done for effect ! On you .
@@whatsupchannel3047 Yes, the two big solutions are abandonment and conflict. There are many ways to do those, you simply must choose the one that suits you best. In abandonment you have things like grey rock, being irresponsive, ghosting, etc. Those should be done if you can't escape the narcissist, say it's your dad and you do not yet have independence, so you become as useless as one be so he doesn't ask anything of you, however fighting generally yield better results, but is indeed exhausting. You must always remember they are like a savage wounded animal, there is no point in being it's friend, just let it be, or you will get attacked. The only point in fighting is to manage to heal them and make them go back to their original self, the same way we capture wounded pets aggressively so we can treat them and make them become good again. There are a lot of videos like that on the tube, where good people get a pet that escaped and is wounded and doesn't trust anyone, they go in and shower it with love and care until it becomes it's trusting loving self again. Again that's not for everyone because to get through, you must be stronger than the narcissist. Hope this helped, take care.
Nothing was resolved. I walked away silently because I realized this dynamics won't really change, I need to act and do the change.
This made me realize that in all my years spent with the narcissist, nothing ever got resolved. You're better off having a conversation with yourself. And you're absolutely right, the only change that comes about is the changes you make. Good that you walked.
This is the best response, probably the only effective response. If you want change, you must change. Move on.
@@andrewcarr3650 in a very sick way and it can take many years to get to this point - you can see them as ‘teachers’ as they got you to do the inner work and heal your broken inner child and be gone. It took me forever to see it this way as I thought they needed to do the learning - but they never will. They are unworthy. We are worthy
"Some individuals are BEYOND redemption"... Yes, I agree 100%!
Could be risking your life. Be careful out there. ❤️
For some this Is real
Very true do not underestimate how vindictive they can be
Actually, it's my brother who is in this situation. Married to a woman who has tried to kill him slowly. Now she has blocked his family from even speaking to him on his cellphones. She has called me demons on the phone and says she doesn't want me at her yard, so I can't even see him.
He was on the verge of dying in the hospital but God has brought him back. He did 2 months of therapy and is gone home but I am fearful she will hurt him again. So I have been praying but it is so frustrating
@@novrenedarlington2702 I’m so sorry. These people are truly the demons.
I'm done "dealing with" and "coping with" narcissists and letting them dictate the terms of all of our lives as they ruin so many opportunities for the rest of us to live happy, healthy lives. I don't want to make their lives more difficult, but after 58 years of life on this earth dealing with them, I'm not going to continue to react to them in ways that take their feelings/emotions/needs into consideration at the expense of mine - anywhere I confront them. I refuse to let the remainder of my life be lived in reaction to them. From now on, I will clearly assert my right to be treated with respect by everyone I interact with. From this point forward, I plan to let narcissists "cope" and "deal with" me as I live my life with dignity, respect, compassion, empathy, understanding and love for others - values I hold dear.
Amen
Narcissist have only ONE type of perception and that is "I win and you lose" there are no middle ground with them. Trust me I talked from experience assertiveness to a narcissist means been controlled and they see it as a personal attack so they lash out, gaslight or ghost if you are lucky or become aggressive. Every attempt to talk to them is like giving them the occasion to mistreat you more. I don't tolerate their behaviors anymore because I now suffer from anxiety and I become physically ill if I am stressed due to long exposure to their toxicity so if they abuse or gaslight me I just leave. I don't have patience anymore to deal with these nonsense
A narcissist will cut off their own nose to spite their own face if they think you're going to achieve autonomy from them! That mindset can be VERY DANGEROUS to you...so, be extremely careful of exhibiting assertiveness with a narcissist; even when it'd otherwise be entirely normal if you were dealing with a normal person. Dealing with a narcissistic individual is more similar to escape from a physically abusive relationship...you first have to survive before you can escape!
Spot on.
Yes I'd stand tall and maintain eye contact with the narc when we moved in together....next thing I was flying backwards down a flight of stairs, and another time had my laptop smashed and shattered in my face. So I learned grey rocking, assuming a submissive posture when he was raging. He quickly got bored and ignored me. It's ended finally but what an awful journey.
@@joywebster2678 I'm so sorry you went through that...but I'm so glad you are making it through all that!
L. OBrien- That's exactly how I feel, like I'm trying to escape from a physically abusive marriage. But the narcissists controlling me are a "friend" and my son. I feel so defeated. Thank you for sharing.
@@joywebster2678 I'm so sorry for what you had to endure. So happy to hear you got out safely. God bless you!
Being assertive is so much easier once you learn about narcissists. To think of all the years I tried to plead my case and was met with crazy making, invalidating, mumbo jumbo. And once you understand you never don't understand... there's no going back to unhealthy.
Yeah! It’s like meh… I have nothing to lose with upholding my self respect… this person is deaf to reason. Like talking to a zombie. Now I just say my truth and stay away from disgust and not fear or wishing for their respect or love!
absolutely! and its amazing watching other people who are otherwise intelligent beings fall for their BS when you've warned them.
"Once you understand, you never don't understand"
🙏🏽 exactly this.
"You don't need their approval" it takes a while for this to process but once you let this sink in it is the most freeing. "Be you" when you're comfortable in your own skin and don't care about their opinion, you can lay it on thick with them how different, wonderful, unique and full you are as compared to their ugly husk of a being
AMEN!!!
Passive Resistance works better than assertiveness. Assertiveness is seen as aggression by the narcissist. The most benign assertiveness is seen as a threat and challenge. Someone with a 'strong narcissist bent' has to feel like the winner with the upper hand in everything. Play tug of war and let go of the rope. What good is 'winning' with a narcissist?
I agree. If you have to deal with a narcissist it works best to maintain absolute neutrality (no reactions) until you can get away entirely; which should be as soon as humanly possible.
Yes❣ It really is the only sane way. 'Winning' is a non-victory... on SO many levels!
I like the “Grey Rock” method as a survival technique. Can be a lifesaver, but it’s so hard to get to a place where they absolutely cannot elicit some emotional reaction or response. I wouldn’t recommend it for long term use because you have to become a grey rock and stifle everything about you, but in times when you’re gathering strength, and preparing to escape, this method is great.
THEY WIN...THEY LOOSE...YOU, ME, OR WHOEVER IS THEIR SCAPEGOAT. ..WHEN THE SCAPEGOAT RELIZES THE DYSFUNCTION.
Excellent advice. Thank you!
When there is a spousal relationship and the Narc is regularly turning the home into a battle zone, the damage to the kids can be quite terrible. They are seeing such an unhealthy relationship and how to deal with disagreement. In my case, the person was SO volatile with ANY push back or disagreement, I had to be extremely careful when to choose to engage. I didn't allow it for serious issues, but it was ongoing with anything and everything in the household. Young people need to understand this much better and avoid this kind of personality all together, ESPECIALLY in a spouse.
100%
It gives a child an almost desperate longing for a happy family
Yes. This is the most hurtful part of dealing with a narc. The children suffer too. You have to shelter them while you feel like you're falling apart.
@@emilyferrante4589 in this kind of situation it is essential to find peace, find kindness, ways to refresh and know that we aren't the horrible person we are being framed as. Show the kids love and peace and kindness at every opportunity. We are good people, NOT perfect, because no one is. But we are definitely much more than what we are being sold. And definitely stay faithful to the marriage while you are in it. Don't throw gas onto the fire. Good friends, the ones who will let you talk, let you express the frustrations and walk that path with you... they are GOLD, but be very, very very careful who you share with. Be ASBOLUTELY sure that what you share will not get back to the Narc. People who don't understand the intensity will think "oh, I can help and go to them and talk this through and encourage them." wrong. That just loads the gun with new ammunition.
@Laura Griffiths agreed. My mother was covert vulnerable and did exactly what you describe. Courage and peace to you and everyone recovering from narcissistic abuse
I can't count how many times I experienced these exact scenarios and I can't say enough how thankful I am to be free from something I thought I might never be able to break free from. Praying for anyone who is still dealing with or feels stuck in this type of relationship🙏🏽
Thank you, I need your prayers, it's very hard to end it
Thanks.
They are incapable of having a heart-to-heart talk. Please people, if you see this in a particular person, get out of the relationship now, or drastically minimize contact. Don’t waste any more of your precious life, or time, dealing with these people. Life is too short.
I think the biggest lesson I learned from my ex abuser is that I need to stand tall in my right to be treated with respect, and to enforce those boundaries without needing validation or approval from anyone else. I have to choose me every time. I have to love myself more than the stupid narc. I have to take my feelings & needs seriously & cut people out of my life at the first signs of disrespect. No second chances.
You are so on target, Lindsey!
They are unable to have a discussion like an adult. Whenever I tried with my ex-narc he'd accuse me of causing an argument. Basically it was his way of shutting me down so that he could carry on with his unacceptable behaviour. I'm so glad I found these videos, they've helped me so much to move on :-) Thanks Dr C :-)
My Narc would try to accuse me of being argumentative when I was agreeing with him but he’d try to explain his point differently snd then say we did not agree and ask me why I was starting the argument when he started it.
yup...all the time..same here with my ex
Going through this now . I thought we were done as of last week but he tried calling me today . I stayed dry . He tried to get a reaction from me by saying some things that really triggered me (basically making himself the victim while simultaneously insult me and invalidate me). I ALMOST reacted but thank goodness for the mute button . He said he’s going to call me back when I’m not being moody . I laughed and said bye and hung up immediately. Changed his name in my phone to ‘narcissist’ .
I’m so done . On and off for 4 years . I’m so ready to be off this roller coaster for good .
@@stephanieburgess8217 omg same ! I tested it out several times too- and sometimes I would agree with him just to see if he would pivot his original point and he did EVERY TIME. He would say I’m argumentative, stubborn , controlling and ‘always have to act like the man’ . ( I’m a woman and he’s a man- these are ways he tried to ‘dominate ‘ me). I used to be a people pleaser and someone that people walk all over but after dealing with 3 narcissts (father, ex fiancé , ex bf of 4 years ) but my heart has been hardened and prefer to be alone now.
Me too. Every single time. Literally anytime I tried to express myself & how I felt about things, he’d say “I don’t want to fight with you”. It was beyond infuriating because I was like dude who’s fighting? 🤨I’m trying to communicate with you, you fucking imbecile
Another video that resonates in my soul. One of the reasons I never stood up to the narcissist in my life (until recently) is because I feared the backlash. It’s like they take your deepest darkest secrets and use them as blackmail against you. Oh you don’t want to be the whipping boy or girl to the narcissist anymore, well prepare to have all your dirty laundry exposed to everyone. I’m at an age now where I don’t care who knows about my mistakes and flaws, so I am able to show assertiveness and take back my power.
It does seem to get easier the older we get, and I think you're right--it's because the older I get, the less I care if other people know my flaws and dirty laundry
That's right, you shouldn't care because we all have flaws and have made mistakes.
Recently found out my father was a narc and was invalidating me for 30 years.
Screwed over my mom, my sister, my brother and lastly, me. Me trying my best to be a loving human being, but even that, he looks at me with contempt, 0 empathy, etc etc. I just uncovered how this dynamic works in my own life, in relationships, friendships, etc. so glad to be out finally! Now I can heal completely and rid disrespectful people out of my life. Stand up for myself, and whomever can’t accept that, just move on. Life is a beautiful journey!
Better late than never. Sure feels robbed tho. Be kind to yourself not bitter just informed and stay balanced and healthy
Congrats only up from here
I can feel your happiness, i wish the same for all of us who is going that direction :)
Congrats! It took me 30 years to figure this same thing out about my mother. I waver between no contact and grey rocking in our relationship. It’s hard. So many years spent thinking I was an “awful daughter” when it really all just meant to keep me on eggshells trying to earn respect and love. Now I don’t want it anymore. And I’ve found my source of love and respect from my own self worth. We aren’t prisoners of their game anymore!
Godspeed to all of us ⭐️
@@gardeniagorgeous4232 Excellent!
Great Job!
One of my ex-narcissist's favorite things to say was "Why are you attacking me?!!" when I would try to engage in communication. It could be a simple discussion or a disagreement or whatever, it didn't matter, but if it wasn't exactly what he wanted to hear, I was accused of "attacking" him. There was always a script that I was apparently supposed to follow, and I felt like I was daily being tested on whether I complied with his script. It was utterly exhausting trying to interact with him.
ME:I don't think we communicate well.
HIM: It's always something with you isn't it?
These people don't want to compromise.
And each new test starts the moment the last one just ended. It’s test, test, test on a loop and I was sure there’s a sadistic element in there too, I was sure when raging or glaring at times he got sexually aroused, shifting position or turning around to hide it. Is that even possible?
That word…”attack”. Seemed to have some hidden meaning. The narc always defaulted to “you’re attacking me” or “that’s when the attacks began”. Just R U N and stay away, horrible creatures.
My ex’s favorite line was “I don’t want to fight with you”. Same thing.. he’d say it anytime I tried to engage in communication about my thoughts, feelings or his behaviour.. you can’t get through to them 😵💫
This! I had just taken a new job after ending an 8 year narc relationship, undergoing therapy and rebuilding my self esteem. After quietly observing the environment and my boss, it was clear as day. The passive aggressiveness, setting up menial tasks and watching how I responded or baiting me. Which is weird predicament; as this is your boss, so of course you should just do these tasks, right? But they weren't dire or pressing, and quite disruptive to my already huge work load. If I didn't respond the way she expected, then I was gaslit that something was wrong with me. After months of self reflection and trying my best to comply, I realized at the end of the day, my well being is paramount and so is my integrity; it was making me angry, negative and I couldn't respect her leadership as is, nor respect myself if I stayed. She pulled her stunts one more time and I quietly set my stuff down, grabbed my purse and walked out. I've never done that on a job before, but I finally learned my worth and self respect. I am resilient and brave. 41 years of life and wisdom. Onward! ✊️
I envy Gus. He is comfortable in his own skin and knows what is important in life. He is uncomplicated and contented. He is an excellent role model. I do want what Gus has.
In my experience, I was argued with or verbally abused when it true to set boundaries. They try to push and provoke you to anger.
Assertiveness doesn't work when the narcissist refuses to look at or speak to you, whilst simultaneously running you down to others who then do the narcissists dirty work!
The Narcissist in our lives is my mother in law. She has become increasingly impulsive, unreasonable and angry as she ages. She is very paranoid and makes self destructive decisions that threaten her safety and well being. We have tried to intervene, reason with her, explain calmly that we are concerned about her financial well being and physical safety, but that has simply led us down a (short!) road to complete estrangement. She then embarked on the most vicious smear campaign, which is truly horrifying. It's hard to walk away from your 90 year old mom, but that seems to be the only option left to us as she won't even speak to us. It's all very sad.
You can only ignore the blatant abuse, disrespect, invalidating and controlling manipulation for so long. Being silent in the name of peace does not work. Sometimes yelling is the only option.
My most telling comment about my narc Mother is what a relief her death was. I cried at her funeral, grieving not the loss of her, but the loss of ever having a warm, affirming, relaxed relationship with a mother. I'm now 68 and still unraveling and examining how her toxicity has affected my ability to connect with other humans in a functional, easy manner.
That's sad indeed, but probably more common than we want to know. Dr. C
Me too
You're free now.....hold your head high .....
@@lisa-4145 I hope the same for you Lisa. Thanks friend!
The strange thing is I've spoken up about abuse in the home, amongst family and for some awful reason everything has been turned on me.... and I'm being made out to be the narcissist. I'm being told I'm paranoid, aggressive (for being assertive), victim mentality (even though I've always taken action on any obstacles I've come to etc). It's all been twisted and turned on me.
Sadly this is what Narcissistic family members do to anyone that dare points out the elephant in the room.
I had a similar situation happen to me. When I finally started telling people about what was going on, I did not get the reaction I was expecting.
I waited 21 years before I even told my Mom. She was very sympathetic, but shocked. She had only ever seen the "fake family." She lives in another state and would come up once a year to see the family. My brother on the other hand lived near by, and even though we have a great relationship, when I told him what was going on, he said "well maybe you shouldn't try to control everything." I was in complete shock, number one because that was wholly untrue, but I was confused about how he came to that conclusion, especially since he had never seen that behavior from me. I completely shut down, didn't even try to argue my point.
But now I understand. For 21 years my X had been laying the foundation for the moment in time when I would start exposing him. It took me another five years to be able to finally leave him and am now battling it out in court.
I stuck to my true self and those who love and care about me are now quite privy to the abuse me and my children suffered. The truth always comes out. Hang in there, stay true to your values and just continue to be the beautiful person you are. Some people will leave and some will have their eyes opened. If someone doesn't believe you, don't try to convince them, again the truth will come out.
They will always turn it on you because they project the weaknesses in themselves (which they can’t address much less be aware of) on to you. Hold on to the truth and what you know and have experienced. Journal that stuff if you need to. Be aware that it may get worse and that they want you to defend yourself because now it’s not them but you who have to prove yourself. Watch these videos. They have been my sanity because they help to hone in on the patterns which are a dead giveaway that it’s not you. Get involved with this community as much as you are able and just be as kind to yourself as you can. Hugs to you and I hope you have at least one person who can act as a sounding board for when it gets really bad.
@@TheBaumcm Thank you for your supportive words and encouragement. It's been a grilling of 10 years, if not more, and few of the people involved finally admitted their was nothing wrong with me and it was not my fault what was done to me (I finally went to the police in 2017, they did not help much). However they (people involved) have chosen to not speak to me anymore after confessing that I was not to blame. I try to watch as many videos like this as possible and others and it's a big help. Also, one thing I'm struggling with is certain behaviours I have picked up after constant bullying and gaslighting (I've almost been convinced I not who I am, but thankfully I still come back to myself (art, creativity, eating healthy, etc). I thing I need some more healing though 🙏🏽
@@msp5298 flying monkeys roll like this MsP,cut your loses with them all.
With mine, if I absolutely need to stand up for myself and say how I feel about things, I have to put steel and a growl in my voice because otherwise there is no chance he will listen because he raises his voice, interrupts, or whatever he can do to drown me out. He wants to 'communicate/talk' but he doesn't want to hear anything from me. He talks, and I am supposed to agree. So if I do assert myself, I am then told I have the anger problem - and he is gleeful when he says this because he wants me to believe I have lowered myself to his level. I have not. I am not yelling or raging, there isn't a sneer in my voice or any menace, I don't name call, I don't throw insults, I am just speaking and trying to be heard, too. I am not an angry person, though this situation of being bullied and shut down for over a decade every freaking time I try to talk is actually creating a sense of frustration that is verging on sending me towards becoming an angry person if I can't get out in the near future. He demands submissiveness, and any deviation from that by me means I have an anger problem. Well, THAT is actually making me angry because no one should place such demands on another person, and the fact someone enjoys trying to push me hard enough to make me angry like them makes me sad.
You describe the situation so well.
Anger covers sadness.
Narcs only respond to fear or ridicule. Their like monkeys, everything is hierarchical. No connection or resolution as equals. Only superior to inferior. Master to slave. This is why they are impossible to deal with.
Oh please please please tell me that you are squirreling away money and planning an exit ? GET OUT !!! I will pray for you… you are being consumed in a malevolent storm of his nastiness …
Get out as soon as possible. It's a burden to your mental health.
I really appreciate the scenarios you give, at times you get bombarded by a narc to the point you can't think straight, and by the time they have finished with dumping on you, you barely have time to think or answer. It's really appreciated.
Yes, they do this. My sister would call me with drama just because. She would go on and on and on about some fake ass drama in her life. She'd go on and on "not knowing what's left from right, up from down, uh....[insert filler trauma porn]." Nothing but a cesspool of negativity. And then the flying monkies do that too. They'll all come together when you're in a closed space like a classroom or a flight or anything like that just to bombard your nervous system with drama and negativity so that they can chip away at your soul. But keep educating yourself and never second guess yourself. Knowledge truly is power. And before you know it, you'll be able to see the demons for who they are and for what they're trying to do to you. And you'll be able to guard your spirit and your body. Stay strong. Sending peace and light ✨️
During a three year relationship I only stood up to my ex once. His reaction was explosive. Unfortunately for him he’d underestimated how angry he’d made me and was shocked, perhaps a little terrified at my reaction.
@Mary Carroll well done. Shows what cowards are hidden behind the bravado.
you're lucky he didn't MATCH your reaction! he could have put you into the hospital with grave injuries!!
@@EphemeralProductions He would be in jail..how many times were they aggressive and you did zero...Mine broke my back, hit my head, grab my neck and I never did a thing..Enough for 24 years..I was almost killed by the 3 and wicked in-laws who all are enabelers.. never knew that was love, let's not forget, telling my MOM going to put me in nursing home... wow..I drove to pick him UP after I picked her up...This man is nuts, what happens in the dark will come out to the light no one can mock Jeh God...
I wish my partner would be able to listen to this without blowing up. Its just completely bang-on target.
Being firm and not be trapped by their games, easily frustrates those people.
I remember my big moments of not tolerating anymore abuse from each of my abusers from the age of 2 to present. I remember hitting the wall of "no more" in each circumstance. There are big consequences to standing up for yourself, your younger siblings, and your children when others wont. But it still has to be done. even if it means you are standing alone in the end. when you get older the question "Is my sanity/safety worth their presence in my life?" begins knocking around in your head. there's your bottom line and it really doesnt get more basic than that. You may have to learn how to be a narc right back to them in most cases to get them to lose interest and go away. Its called self-preservation. I had to learn it when I was still in single digits in years. And it killed me. I hated having to know how to have snazzy come backs to my mother at age 12 & 13 in front of her friends - whom she eventually lost because of her treatment of me. But it didnt stop. I suppose it kept my mind sharp and thinking, always thinking, of how to stay one step ahead of her; until she zigged instead of zagged! but even that became predictable just like all narcs. but wow what a way to stay sharp. I wish I had known most of the rest of the world was like her; or that I am autistic so I might have been able to make better choices in my life. Learning how to just say "whatever" a while back was very key! and the cool manner with which Dr C says it helps bring it home. Makes my frenzied brain stop and say - 'yeah, ya know, I can do that.' as I have said before, its your cool manner that helps. A dry wit and mature mind that can see their games also helps immensely :) I have gotten to that stage more than once only to lose it again after so much hard work. Getting there again, hopefully will retain the 'new eyes' going forward. The last time I decided a narc wasnt worth my time anymore was costly. I dont want to do it again.
dear patti - I am so sorry you had to go through all of that . I hope that you are safe, and well and happy - and FREE of toxic relationships. 100 % Narc free !
@@lucyt-c8092 thank you ✨🌺❤️
Oh boy, oh boy, does this video ever strike home! Numerous examples!
My sixteen year old self got pushed into a corner where I had to be transparent about what was happening in my life. (I usually lay low and tried to be invisible around my father.) I was calm, honest, and respectful. He evidently didn't think so. He decided that I was lying. He called me several uncomplimentary names (loser...for one). He also wanted to beat me, but was "afraid that he wouldn't be able to stop." He felt badly weeks later when he learned that I had been truthful, but somehow I was responsible for his feeling badly too. 🙄 That was the one and only time in my life that a man threatened to hit me with his fist. I fell to the floor and covered my head with my arms. Fortunately, the blows didn't come.
When my nephew was born, I was so excited and totally in love. I spent quite a lot of time helping my sister. I was seventeen; she was twenty-five. After awhile though,, it started bothering me how my sister barked orders at me like I was her personal slave. I told her that I loved helping her with my nephew, but please and thank you's would be much appreciated. She WENT OFF!!!! It was like watching a toddler having a temper tantrum.
With narcissists, we're damned if we do and damned if we don't.
The greatest downfall of the victims of narcissism is once they see that their life long held passiveness and compassion hasn't been rewarded and has only led them to become low hanging fruit for narcissists. They start to overcompensate for it and lash out at everyone and become extremely combative/defensive. The real challenge is to not become the monster you're trying to defeat. I know because I've been that guy before.
I felt this.
That was SO WELL EXPRESSED!!
I am so glad I decided to read through the comments today (a habit I’m trying to break so that I can actually absorb the videos lol),
Because this is EXACTLY where I am at right now.
Literally at a cross road.
I know it sounds pathetic, but I assure you, I’m not looking for a pity party.
I guess I can compare it to an employee at a factory.
This employee is Always on time.
Always working and working hard.
Always available, even in off days.
Always doing the s**t work that everyone else just left behind.
Always there to listen.
Always there to help.
Never being compensated for even HALF of the work they’ve put out.
Oddly enough, this doesn’t upset the employee all that much. She’s just looking at it as “being apart of a team.”
Perhaps thinking, one day, all of her loyalty and hard work will come back to her.
Then the employee turns 40. Realizes that the other employees are simply becoming lazier, and taking more and more liberties with her kindness.
She is realizing that she was NEVER “a part of a team.”
She was stupid. She was gullible.
She was bamboozled, she was used.
Not only has she given all that she has away…she now realizes that no good is coming to her anytime soon.
She decides to resign, and on her final day of employment, she sets fire to the factory.
Relishing in the fact that this will be the only compensation she will ever receive for all that she’s given.
The end.
Lol
I agree with the first sentence. The privelage of age (64) gives maturity and the knowledge to not lash out at others, to not become what you despise in others.
Yes. It's called the pendulum. Sadly, the victim will many times get that approach used against them as well. Crazy making.
I was assertive with a group of narcissist personality types once, and not that long ago either. That was all it took to start the snowball rolling that resulted in cutting ties with "the family", (they kind of act like Mafia as well 🤣). At least it wasn't like trying to be assertive when I was a kid, that would often result with me being strangled, beaten, or if I was lucky only gaslit. Sometimes a combination of all of the above.
Oh my. Sorry to hear that, and yes some people call it gang stalking. 💜💜💜💛💛💛
@@ladennayoung2939 It's taken quite a while but I'm starting to come to terms with it, especially now they are out of our lives. Gang stalking is an extremely appropriate label for what they were doing. Thank you for that one, that's an extremely apt way of putting it and I'm going to store that one in the memory bank for later. The leader of the pack has multiple profiles so I still have to be careful what I say on my social media channels, but I highly doubt they are knowledgeable enough to track down comments on UA-cam 😁. I'm still waiting for the day when some of their gossipy friends try to get some information out of me because I can let them in on some stuff that I can guarantee they haven't said anything about 🤣. I'm not into revenge, but I am into taking the wind out of narcissists sails.
My thumbs up was in support of you getting away from, surviving, and ultimately thriving! 💜
I think you mean to say they're more like a cult!
Scapegoat right
Today told someone look after your own back yard don't judge me
You need to warn people they need to get ready to lose their whole family, even if you are disabled, because that's how far it will go if if it's your mother.
This is exactly what I went through with two different classmates recently. I spoke with them privately about something they said/did, and how it made me feel, with the objective of letting them know how it effected me, but on each occasion I experienced this very same response from them. I was really surprised and confused. I just can't believe the number of people out there who are just like this anymore. Thank you so much for helping me sort this out in my head; it has really caused some deep psychological suffering in me.
The deep psychological suffering is their objective. Soul murder basically
It's estimated that 5% of the population has NPD. Notice the red flags, don't argue with them, go no contact. Narcs are not interested in who you are, what you do and think, let alone your critique. They are only interested in narcissistic supply. Live a happy live. Avoid them.
So sorry. This sort of thing is just bewildering and upsetting. There are good friends you will meet. The bad behavior is actually abnormal behavior. I am on this site because I am dealing with it, but most people do not act this way. I found that when I was in school, this was more common and I think it was due to immaturity and insecurity. It will get better. You handled things perfectly well. You will have true friendship and love, and I hope you already have it.
Having self autonomy is threatening to them. In my experience, I've expressed that it's reasonable for them to have their own perspective and disagree with me. But it's unacceptable to them for the same to be true for you.
They like playing the victim and project that YOU are the real bully here and YOU'RE trying to control them. You being assertive is evidence to them that you're "the bad guy."
They can't get out of their head that nobody has to be the bad guy. They see problems within a relationship as the other party's fault...not as something that the both of you need to tackle together. They have to identify a villian...which is never them. Instead of addressing problems, they just attack the other person. Accountability is only for you, not them. Accountability to them from you is abuse in their minds.
It's so incredibly twisted and frustrating. They see any bit of decency and agreeableness in you to work out a situation as more opportunity to manipulate and control. They don't appreciate another humbling themselves to work things out...after all it's just proof about how right they were all along and how stupid and worthless you are. Truth is that they are just projecting their fears on to you of feeling worthless and stupid.
It's sad, but remember....that's their choice to be that way. It's not your responsibility to atone for their behavior. They are choosing to be bad all on their own.
"Be true to who you are." Dr. C. Thank you.
When a toxic person tries to pull me in their game, I don't speak, I just think: "get lost, untrustworthy deciever" and I go to carry on my life... It is better to shut up and do my life than give a lot of explainig, justifiing or convincing. They don't listen anyway, so why to bother.
My ex had a common set of responses whenever we tried to talk about issues. As the video stated, everything was a competition with her and she had to win. If she ever though she didn't win. there was always going to be retaliation. The rare times that we negoiated anything, she would just unilateraly begin to ignore any parts she didn't want to follow. Of course, when I then spoke up, well, she'd go into her anger mode and yell and always blame me for her actions.
same here
its exhausting
@@skinnyway Yes - to exhausting . I try a little mantra of “ save a little for me “- sometimes a little time ( 5 minutes watching silly animal stuff on you tube )… sometimes a little money squirreled away with a trusted friend -$10 for me , … sometimes just NOT doing household maintenance he expects ( no fresh towels in bathroom- he must go get them himself …) … sometimes time/ attention/ money on someone who is NOT him and it gives me pleasure to treat - a donut on a parkbench witj a five year old grandbaby - no donut brought to him after . Little , quiet things that make me more ME and give me courage for a well planned exit . Just what I WANT- what I NEED - what gives ME PLEASURE . ME , ME , ME . ME TIME . All of this is very quiet but makes me stronger. Try your own version to give yourself some energy back - energy that the narc vampire is stealing from you and not giving back . Best of Luck . I will pray for you .
Some of those narcissists believe it or not are into bragging about being best at practicing that sort of thing too as if all that means they are so much smarter, wiser and more important than us and so they should be working on some sort of elite team instead of being willing to ever make a compromise. While expecting us when according to them being privileged enough to hear them bragging for us to believe too that they should have already in the past been discovered and then welcomed as part of the Navy Seals team instead of ever actually lifting a finger around the house or yard themselves ever unless someone else besides us is watching at the time only so they can later if need be on paper try to claim the credit for all the work that was being done around the house and in the yard too after we leave them during their next oh so predictable discard phase.
I was very assertive when I left the narcissist and told him exactly what it what it is and what it's going to be like for him not to bother me ever again. Of course I had a threatened him with police but it's working for now and for always I hope good luck everyone and thank you for your lectures God bless
I didn't bother to waste my breath by explaining that to the narc...I just left.
, in my experience, they just snow their way through these types of encounters...and punish you even worse once they've gone.
The bottom line is, you will never win until you walk away completely.
Yes
The first rage I experienced was when I said "Could we sit down and talk this through?" He immediately smashed up every piece of furniture in my lounge, screaming in an inhuman way. I was in such shock about how such a normal request could be met with such destruction.
@Mary Carroll indeed! Months later, if I questioned anything, he focused that rage on me physically. It progressed from my possessions to me, as soon as we married and I was pregnant
@@thrivingnow7395 I pray your name is what you are doing after leaving that pos that NEVER deserved you. Stay strong and love yourself❤
It is a a method /behavior to exert control /intimidate others. Hope you are free of that.
Jesus, that's intense. I hope you get out of this and heal. x
@@mattdonna9677 I am free in the sense that I escaped, but that does not stop him from trying to hoover me. I have gone total no contact, but he now knows where I live and is trying the benign hoover via letters and presents left at my gate...
This is EXTREMELY timely Dr. C. Your knowledge is priceless. These narcs are armed & dangerous. So scary. 😶💔👹
i havent locked my door for 30 years but after telling certain family members to leave me alone a couple of weeks ago , i do now
I'm armed to!!
Just had this situation dealing with a meltdown. I just stayed mum or said okay as per Dr.C’s advice. Then flatly stated that I wouldn’t tolerate the behavior. I refused to defend myself or mirror the behavior, even when he was calling names. It worked better than attempting to explain or be assertive.
Having a conversation with my narc about who I am and how I feel would never ever happen..not a real genuine level. They just cant go that deep with another person. Its sad really.
Just swallow your pride and don’t do it. They will exact revenge and it’s not worth it.
And when the narc is a drug addict, the paranoia is over the top! So glad he's gone!
Truths become lies and lies become truths.
Recently, I had to assert a boundary with 2 vulnerable narcissists at work. Told them I have no time to chat as I am very busy. They continue to stand in my office looking at me as though I owe them something. I stated my boundary once, and kept on going doing my work. They still don't get it! They think they can drop in my space and suck up my time. I now grey rock, close my door and ignore. I am free to be me. I owe them nothing. Now, they are stirring up the poor me act. It's annoying how immature 🙄 people can be. Oh, well that's their problem.
Peace Team Healthy
They don't want to do any work, so they need to drag you down as well to justify their laziness. My office is an open setting. While I try to get work done, my narcissistic coworker called someone from another team, drilling that person if he's watching porn while at work, while dumping all his work duties on me. This narcissist has got the boss on his side. I have just handed in my resignation, as my boss asks us to sit down and talk to work through any disagreement.
Projection is their thing. Protecting the narcissist game, is the family version of circling the wagons. God help you if you start sounding like you are no longer willing to remain silent about family secrets. My solution was 3400 miles. Family visits were an unending litany of ‘you really need to come bacK’ translation “we miss our pin cushion”
Narcissists are so fragile, thay are difficult for me to communicate with. I'm to open with my true self for them for them to handle. This makes me sad for them
When I am assertive, or say anything that is not in aggreance with my Narcissist, I am called aggressive. When I say.....well, no, that's not right or ok for you to treat me this way. Or when I call him out on his passive aggressive behavior and say..."why did you do that. Its not kind and I do not like it".....he throws a fit and says I'm being aggressive and he doesn't like it.....you mean, I'm being assertive and it is a threat to your narcissistic self? Ok...
Exactly!!
Yes, I get the same from those who try to bully me, they take it as an attack when I stand up for myself. Even call me the narc for speaking up, having an opinion etc.
You said "my narcissist". He is not yours cause narcissists don't attach. You are just an object to him.
@@msp5298 Yes because they see you as an object, not a human, they see you daring to stand up for yourself as an injustice and attack on them, not the self defence that it is. The mold they have put you in in their mind will include you being someone with no backbone or inner strength so when you prove you do have that backbone and inner strength they need to abuse you more to 'abuse' it out of you. They have given themselves a never ending agenda, you prove them wrong and they feel they have to prove themselves right even though the very fact they are having to do it again and again is proof you do have the backbone and inner strength.
Yes replacements are fast and before you go too.
Can't imagine living such a subpar life that they have. The inner turmoil everyday would be enough to eat your intestines to pieces. Controlling other people is like trying to nail down jello. Trying to talk to a narc is too.
Yep I'd rather converse in sign language with a gnat!
There aren’t enough words to explain how factual, helpful and healing this session was. Father God, please continue blessing Dr. Carter, with his healing words. As he helps Team Healthy Members heal, please help Dr. Carter, and his family in their needs.
Narcissists (especially covert ones like my dad) are a bunch of sulky babies who will give you the silent treatment or throw temper tantrums if god forbid they don’t get their way or if you disagree with them on something. Dealing with my father and his unpredictable chaotic emotions similar to what a child experiences was so beyond ridiculous. This person is supposed to be my parent?? A 5 year old inhabiting an adult body?! What a joke. He is the reason I need to re-parent myself. This was someone who knew shockingly little about life and human nature but thought he knew it all-that’s the dangerous part.
Everything you do is dangerous, if you're dealing with a narcissist.
That's how you spot the disorder.
Every position, every tactic and every move turns to shit. You can't win.
For the narcissist, there are internal mechanisms, that are more important than anything else. This is a twisted mind.
A narcissist turns everything around, making you look bad. This includes your assertiveness.
All you do, explodes in your face.
Yep. Here to testify. Narcs like to give you things just to take it away. Everything is a game to them. Your life is just a game to them. Everything you are and everything you do becomes something for them to contort and disfigure. They're hoping that it'll disfigure you. Every opinion you have, every dream you have, every thought you have lol it all becomes a weapon that they fashion against you. Sending you peace and light ✨️. For you to have this knowledge means that you've been through some shit.
You’re describing my relationship with my daughter.
It's so difficult when the narcissist is your mother. My mom said, "Game on" the day i was born. I am very reactive when I speak with her and I am holding onto hurts because she is so relentless and merciless when it comes to telling me that I just remember everything wrong and how crazy I am. She has told me for years that I need counseling but that is the thing. I believed her so I got counseling. For over a decade. And counseling helped me learn other behavior patterns. Now she still says that I need counseling when she has spent zero time in counseling.
I love your channel. You changed my life! For the better!
So pleased!
"How can we manifest the beauty of Truth-Absolute when, in the middle of the aesthetic crescendo, the narc unaccountably and without our permission, happens to idly pick its nose in public?" 🤭
Mr. Gold quoted.
Quit on the Narcs.
Never quit on yourself. Xx
I have had a few narcs in my time. Friends, family, exes etc... and as soon as you say 'can we talk?' They are immediately on the defensive and ready to attack as Dr.C says. Lessons learned.
Narc Whisperer Pro Tip: Replace "Can we talk?" with "Can you help me with something?" Someone shared that with me several years ago and it really has been a gem of a tip. 💞
@@SamSolasdonSaol that's really useful. Thanks
@@amandaliverpool3374 You're welcome. I wish you much success and inner peace. 💞
@@SamSolasdonSaol Thank-you kindly and, to your good self 🙏
I have dealt with two narcissists in my immediate family of origin. Being assertive with my father meant being physically and verbally abused as a child and into adulthood. ALWAYS his way or else, or nothing. I can't begin to elaborate. So devastating and destructive to my whole family. And the kicker is, he's still alive and in his 90s. He's still cruel and manipulative. Everything that Dr. Carter says about malignant narcissists and the worst one can experience, I can tell the tales. The only person beside myself still alive, is my sister. My brother died before he was barely in his 30s, and my mother has been dead for 11 years. Death is the only way you totally escape, so live your life the way that is healthy for your physical and mental well-being and to love others in healthy ways. For years, I was under the delusion that my sister was so much better than me and had escaped and done much better than me in life. I thought of myself as a cautionary tale. For the last 13 years or so, I have finally seen the truth. My sister has to be better than me for her personal integrity. My parents groomed her to believe that she was better than me and treated her to be better than me but it's not like my sister hasn't suffered from being raised in that family too. If I am assertive with my sister, it becomes an immediate threat to her. I have to subordinate myself, and lockstep agree with her in order for her to feel secure. When I do not agree with her and confirm and validate her thinking and how she wants things done, a blow up inevitably occurs and I'm banished from all family gatherings. These days, and this last banishment has turned into a blessing in disguise for me. Ostracizing and banishment are blessings in disguise because it gives you a chance to step back and away for reflection and self-examination, and to find the kind of genuine and reciprocal love bonds you can make elsewhere. Love is the answer - just make sure that it's genuine love which takes time and patience. Agape and philia love. I am grateful that God never gave up on me. I have fallen far short from the perfect people that my father thinks he is, and my sister strives to be, but God loves me and even at my worst, God did not give up on me, and he has 'led me to still waters and restored my soul.' I am still a cautionary tale, and I am still flawed, fallible and finite but with God, I have love and joy in my life. I read the Bible every day, it's been instrumental for me.
Thank you for this powerful story.
It is SO SIMILAR to mine.
Right down to
.....sister has to be better...OR ELSE
....90 YR OLD dreadful malig narc father
....banishment. My sister actually orchestrated a (completely bogus) restraining order against me....so she could keep as close to TOTAL CONTROL of my dreadful abusive narc father.
Did I mention my sister has 5 kids, us married to a ne'er do well non income producing religious yahoo, has NO MONEY, and endlessly received money from my pathetic, horribly enabling mother (died a year ago).
Hmmmm ...money flow stopped to sis, MOMMYS CHECKBOOK WAS GONE.
Time to SMEAR ME (black sheep scapegoat)
YOU CANT MAKE THIS STUFF UP!!!
To be honest...the restraining order has been a total blessing.
We are very financially solid and self sufficient. Own home. Etc
Sis lives in a HOVEL.
As the empath (and very capable DIY er I am), I TWICE spent a week if MY SUMMER TIME doing thousands of dollars of work at her "home".
Holes in walk. Bathrooms without ceilings, Dead rodents literally in the walls.
I ACTUALLY AM HAVING TROUBLE BELIEVING THIS AS I WRITE IT. AND I LIVED IT
ANYWHO....BACK TO THE PRESENT ..
As Dr. C says ..these people just don't get life very well.
After months of verbally abusing my incredible, patient, empathetic wife....I finally HAD ENOUGH
SO I DID THE OUTRAGEOUS ...I ASSERTIVELY SPOKE TO HIM.
I said ...
.....you will NOT call her a BI##H.
.... You will NOT push her,
.....you will NOT demand her attention every second
ETC.
WELL, WELL, WELL....DONT CALL OUT THE NARC.
That night ..after my assertive standing up to this lifetime emotiona sadisticl vampire .... He called narc sis.
She "believed" every word of his.
More like she had a scheming AH HA MOMENT.
THE GRINCH READY TO BRING RUIN.
THE Malignant narc scheming idea lightbulb went off
Surprise surprise ....she
..NEVER called me to ask "hey, what's up. Dad was upset. I want to hear your side if story"
Ha ha ...of course she didn't
She saw an opportunity to unite with my father, enlist a few flying monkeys, and try desperately to HUMILIATE AND SHAME me publicly.
=======
SO ....
They filed a restraining order against me. The pathetic half truths in it were just laughable.
In our state ..it is virtually impossible to FAIL to get an RO passed, if elderly claims they are scared
Let me be clear. There was POSITIVELY NEVER ANY ASSERTION OF VIOLENCE AGAINST ME
My crime. Telling a warped a##H### that he couldn't get away with one more second of C##P on my watch.
NO ONE EVER STOOD UP TO HIM. 92 years surrounded by enablers. THE WORST...MY MOTHER. I HOPE SHE DIED VERY VERY ASHAMED
This guy would take family on 14 hour family "vacations" and not allow bathroom breaks for his wife or daughter .
DOMINATE
HUMILIATE.
This guy's ONLY HUMOR was to make fun of others.
Most often his wife's toilet habits . in front of children.
I REPEAT....HIS WIFES TOILET HABITS.
SICK. SICK. SICK
I can still hear his bellowing sadistic voice, and his pleasure at "getting a laugh"
KAREN, ARE YOU IN THE TOILET AGAIN
WHERES DINNER
=======
BUT
POOR BOY ..
VICTIM. .HIS YOUNGEST SON SCARED HIM .
BOO HOO.
TANTRUM
"BUT OF COURSE I CAN TREAT YOUR WIFE LIKE CR#P. ". He must have been thinking.
Treating people like cr#p must have felt like a birthright to him.
Boo hoo. Victim time
For the first time in 92 years, someone spoke sternly to him.
Then in the restraining order, he writes ..."I LOVE MY SON (me) VERY VERY MUCH."
That bizarro LOVE BOMBING at end of order was hilariously illustrative of my bizarre life w FOO. Totally DISREGULATED, DISORDERED HUMAN BEING.
Total CRAZY
I have lived 58 years like the cartoon character who's head is vibrating back and forth after being hit with a brick
These people are TWISTED!
Can't wait for stream at 11pm
D IGNITY
R ESPECT
C IVILITY
RB
@@bhabi7071 I hope you find peace.
@@margochanning6868 thank you.
You too
I had to leave the friendship completely, as I was getting manipulated and pushed into doing things i didn't want to do, and it was disturbing my heart in the end.
Also, i realised later i was traumatised by the sick physical exhibitionism that went on - after the first time i told her it wasn't okay, but she did it worse twice after that.
We had been friends for 20 years & it hadn't come through to me how aggressive and sick this person was.
One of mine is a martyr mother theresa. They don't allow any dissent, any assertiveness openness, even gentle questioning. Like a marshmallow covered in porcupine spikes, anything I bring up I get hit with spikes covered in poison and feel terrible for days on end. The next day they're back to acting as if everything is just normal and I can't get my head around that when im left feeling so Terrible. They keep me at an emotional distance as I hoop jump and walk on eggshells and eventually burst with anger and frustration and end up looking like the bad one! Seriously love this channel, I don't know where I'd be without this and the sense it's talking into me✌
Thank you, this is really helpful. So much of the advice to deal with a narcissist is to work on grey rocking/blocking or exiting as quickly as possible, or that any confrontation will likely lead to all out show down because a narc hates to be challenged and will immediately make you their enemy if you disagree or stand up for yourself with them.
But that doesn't feel like the full story, and this idea of finding ways to stay assertive in yourself, albeit with an adapted form of assertiveness, makes sense to me.
In all the rest of my relationships in life, I work hard to be assertive and empathetic which to me go hand in hand, as expressing and recieving respect.
Its so confusing to interact with a person who doesn't get it and can't do assertiveness, despite appearances of charisma or grandiosity sometimes or victim and being the centre of attention of a competition of drama. It feels good to think there is a way to hold assertiveness for yourself, as long as you don't anticipate their ability to reciprocate it, and not shut down your own empowerment and become submissive to their bullying.
It seems essential to me to have a frame of reference to continue to strike out in the world with competency and self assurance and humbleness, but not become deflated and submissive to comply with their games of authority over others, or forcing you to give up your self belief or healthy sense of self determination.
I think we all know by now that a narcs greatest sense of delight is to feel that they separated you from yourself and have you dangling on a puppet string that they control, yanking around your feelings and your mood depending on how they feel or how they react. It seems the most empowering thing to maintain your own self authority and maintain a sense of assertiveness, even if you dont invite a dialogue the way I would normally with most people, you can still try to be considerate of the narc and treat them humanely while not giving any of your power away or compromising yourself, the way they would like you to.
It also seems to confuse them when you continue to treat them with respect when they continue to try to bait you, hate you, pick fights, set up people backstabbing each other, disturb the peace. I guess I'm slowly learning how to be kind, without the usual generosity I express to normal people who I know will reciprocate, communicate, and are capable of appreciating it. If I am kind and assertive because those are my values, then I have already won because I refuse to be separated from my sense of righteousness and good self/good living, not to be brought lower by someone else's projections, jealousys, or games. It's complicated, if I'm joking, I almost feel like those of us who survive narcissistic abuse and recover deserve phds in human behaviour, but it's so worth the effort, of learning to keep ourselves safe.
Thank you for helping us learn Dr Carter
Lmao right? It takes being a certain kind of emotionally, spiritually, intellectually sound in order to get through this. An extremely high degree of it I'd say. You just have to keep raising your vibrations. It takes elevating your vibrations to break free from the negativity and darkness they try to fill your soul with. Peace and light being sent your way ✨️
Grey rocking done correctly confuses the narc, short circuits the planned game or rage event. Best of all when they get no fuel from you but politeness they get bored and go play most of their games elsewhere, while you plan your own future. Being calm and assertive got me thrown down staircases. So vibe as high as you want, many overt narcs and malignant narcs will NOT respond to assertiveness well. Milder narcs, yes there is a spectrum, may have more "manners" in the face of assertiveness but they aren't agreeing with it.
@@joywebster2678 - I agree with you. If you are dealing with a Malignant Covert Narc, assertiveness is an invitation to danger. Grey rocking, not joining or responding to their rage-fests is best for personal safety. After doing my deep dive (PhD worthy 😁) into Narcassism, thanks to Dr. Carter & Dr. Ramani - I decided to become so boring, not standing up to him (waste of time) in hopes that he would find interest elsewhere & I wanted him to think that divorce is his idea, etc., etc. Safer for me that way. BTW, I found out his M.O. has been exactly the same in 3 previous long term relationships of which 1 was a marriage. He intimidates by rage, threats, etc., only to his LTR/partner, to everyone outside he is so calm & cool, Mr. Mild Manner himself. Interestingly enough, he was about to go into a business partnership w/a person that I thought was weird, squirley & had innapropriate business behavior, as an adult. Very low EQ. Well, they ended up having a ridiculous dispute over the office design & the other guy jumped in his face in a rage. My soon to be Ex folded like a cheap suit, was very shaken up & immediately retreated into victim persona. They are such strange, emotionally disregulated people.
Being assertive & setting boundaries is downright dangerous with a narc. I did it not knowing what he was. What followed was abuse; full blown abuse. Verbal, physical, emotional, & sexual. What was scary was he’d been a complete gentleman until that point. I never saw it coming. If I’d known what he was I would have handled myself differently so I could have left the relationship unharmed.
Was he covert? Ross Rosenberg says run but silently. I finally took his advice with my family - it saved my life
@@MJ-qb5ph I don’t know if he was covert. All I know is he was abusive & controlling as hell & I’m lucky to be free from him. I wish I’d never met him; he messed me up real good, but I’m doing better now.
Narcs can turn you into the type of person Doc is describing. That's when you know it's time to get out, because I couldn't live with myself being like this. Narcissists can and that's the problem. Constantly playing defense is really tiring and not worth it in the end.
I paused this one on the advert.
I know this one all too well!
They will lie their hearts out to silence you in any way possible, and even sometimes. Impossible….
Yes, wisdom and discernment is really required in dealing with these people. Also one gets to be more comfortable with a quieter life.
I did not know about narcissistic disorder back in 1993. I just knew that my newlywed bride's grandmother weas just being way too bossy and trying to run our lives. I strongly resisted and told her I was going to run my house my way, thank you very much. Several days later, my bride and her grandmother were back home in New Hampshire and would not come back until I apologized to her grandmother for my rude behavior and allowed her to move in permanently and live with us. Since I would not do that, my wife refused to live with me anymore, and her grandmother filled her head with as much poison as she could telling her she was better off without me and that I was an evil, self-centered, lying man who did not deserve either one of them. We officially divorced a year later. I paid the price for being assertive to a narcissist.
You Got free. Good for you
Win for you. Her loss.
I love your dog sleeping on the couch! I wonder if he understands you or like the narcissist hears only blah blah blah! Lol
Well, Gus can't understand my words, but we connect at the heart level.
Hilarious! And accurate!!
I had to ditch a “friend” due to his narcissism. This poor coward had grown up hating women, especially strong women. His delusion was total and incurable.
This is it. At 50, I tried to tell my mother that she'd hurt me. 35 years + of casually projecting ''paranoia'' on to me (I'm too trusting in fact) and she THREW HERESELF UP ON THE CROSS. The biggest victim in the world. I'm the devil. I tried to talk about it and I got the silent treatment. I was more assertive than I'd ever been in the past and held firm in my interpretation of events which she perceives that as a huge act of aggression. She tried to summons me back in to the family but made it clear I had no voice in the family. She told me that she and my Dad had decided not to ''throw accusations around'' so my hurt is ''accusations'' and a ''grudge'' but hers is going to put her up on top of the cross. I wouldn't go back to playing the part of daughter if she wouldn't acknowledge that she hurt me, so she went back from mere stonewalling to original silent treatment. She isn't talking to me now and is smearing me to all the aunts, uncles and cousins. At this point I think it's hopeless. I feel so much hurt, this could never be fixed even if she got it, and she never will. I have to give up and accept I have no family. This is where assertiveness got me. I don't know if I regret it exactly. I see who they are. A narc, a co-dependent, an enmeshed golden boy who all seem to need to hurt me just to be ok.
Your story sounds exactly like mine and my partners. Its her mom and how she treats her. I stood up and was the assertive one, and the smear campaign started against both of us. My partner is still dealing with the hurt and lies her mother is doing/saying. The cross part is real. Her mother is the victim. I'm the bad guy for speaking up. My partner is the one who lost family.
Stay strong. You're not alone in this journey.
Victimization is their calling card. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
I am assertive and try to be very careful with my words, and it gets me nowhere 99%. When cornered the only tool they can reach for is extreme anger which is hard to deal with it you don't function of that level It makes it impossible to ever get a point across. The deflection, the turning things around on you., the verbal abuse. It's exhausting honesty and like watching a two-year-old throwing a tantrum.
My ex narc was often accusing me of being a victim because i called out on his bad behavior, so laughable as i was taking care of him and his son, the one who held stable, well paying job and could handle life, he could not and his family were flying monkeys who let him get away with his cruelty and rudeness for 64 yrs! He was not safe and when I tried to be assertive and discuss a current issue he would bring up issues from 5 yrs ago!
Wow, Dr Carter, how do you know my husband so well ! Honestly everything you have said and described in this video is my life with a controlling, self obsessed person. I am slowly learning that a Narcissist has no intention of being human. Compassion, respect, communication, loving someone else besides themselves is no way on their agenda . I am so worn out just trying to survive in a loveless marriage after 45 years of knowing and allowing this person to control my life. Thank you so, so much for these videos, they give me the strength to go on 😉
I tried to be assertive with my ex husband. I asked if he could be a little more gentle and kinder cos I wasn't coping with menopause. Instead he became even more controlling and blaming and then our children started to use the same accusatory comments towards me "You're too needy, too sensitive". I also tried two things......
1. Became submissive and nodded my head. He liked that and life was definitely better for him. (But in my heart this is when I realised how incredibly controlling he was and that my views. opinions and self were not what he wanted to hear.
2. I started to be more assertive and said I needed time to think over his viewpoint/requests etc. This resulted in him pushing for an immediate answer and accusing me of being disruptive, argumentative and being told I had to make everything into an issue. And that escalated with such irritation, even more passive-aggressive, bullying behaviour and then a real mission on his part to become so enmeshed with our children and me being excluded.
No win situation!!
My ex wouldn't listen or discuss problems, he'd yell walk away, throw something
My narc brother became so aggressive that for several years, the only safe response to him was to bolt.
For years, he would burst into a room where I was, snatch whatever I was doing from me, and start punching, usually to my head. Frequently he destroyed that object in the process. I found that it was better to bolt immediately than to fight back. He would block the door to prevent escape, so I would go out the window. These attacks became life-threatening - he had several tries at cornering me in front of glass and trying to punch my head into the glass.
I cut him out of my life, and then emigrated. That was 36 years ago.
in 2004, I challenged him over his behaviour, in front of his wife. That included telling him that I left because I feared for my life - with good reason, because he had punched our father's head through glass, and I had to intervene to save his life. A month later was his first try at doing that to me. There were three such attacks in a few months...
His response to my calmly telling him how he had behaved (I expressed no emotion)was to say, with total rage, "That is INCORRECT. Everything, EVERYTHING I have ever done in relation to you is RIGHT and PERFECT". He is clearly psychotic. It was clear that only the presence of his wife stopped him from making a full-on attack, probably resulting in a fight to the death.
Scroll on a few years, a year ago I had a phone conversation with his now ex-wife. She left him, probably not much later. He had beaten her up too many times, the last time when she was asleep he repeatedly punched her in the stomach 'like a boxer'.. Now that he has a new bride-to-be, he has no interest in his adult children (three, now around 19-26) from that marriage.
When you identify a malignant narcissist, do not challenge them. Just get away.
One thing I've noticed with the narcissist is that when someone has told her she needs to change her behaviour and treat me with respect, she sees that as someone giving me value because if I didn't have value then they wouldn't speak up for me. This makes her more determined to destroy my reputation because she then want to make them wrong so they'll have to apologize to her, which will give her a lot of supply. This is why she doesn't stop and just finds different ways to get at me that are less detectable by others.
One person who the narcissist told two specific things to ("That M's been messing with the computer system which is why it broke" and "M's the only one who knows how it works.") in one conversation didn't see until I pointed it out to her that the narcissist is trying to influence her into not trusting me by lying about me messing with things (it was obvious the network went down when the system threw errors and was not because of anything anyone had done) and with the other comment she was acknowledging I have value by being the only one with certain knowledge (how to make db's in MS Access) but instead of her learning how to program in Access too, she would rather we stop using the db I created. This would devalue me and my experience and skills.
Some people encourage ignoring or dismissing the narcissist's behaviour, but I've found there are times when a calm statement is necessary to convey your ethos or actual facts, contradictory to the narcissist's often incorrect or ignorant assertions. Sometimes no response to their hurtful behaviour allows them to think they've wounded you with what they perceive to be a legitimate attack.
Assert your dominance......increase your social status
I did EXACTLY what you're suggesting, & the narc fumed & sulked... Kept track of every time I stood my ground against their garbage, & off-loaded ALL OF IT IN TWISTED GASLIGHTING when they finally detonated... When they finally left, the garbage took out the trash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!😅🖤
Edit: ...that psychopath won't come anywhere near me now; they never wanted this house, only the $$$ it represented... never wanted me either...my retirement account was their primary target. They got neither...and I stripped a vehicle & any financial support from them. They can scream victim forever but the Court saw what they tried to scam me for... They're exposed, convicted...DONE.😡🖤
Amount of trouble I've got into after being assertive is inexplicable. I being assertive was being disrespectful for my husband. And he took it as an opportunity to hit me, only to tell me later that I made him do it. Because i was being Disrespectful and frustrated him. Wonderful Married Life!
Get out, get out. I’m too old to get out, hope you’re not. This will never get better.
File a police report and get out.
File charges and leave. It just gets worse. Trust me. Please leave. You deserve better.
@@heidimartin5070 you are NEVER too old . even if you only live ONE more year … it will be a narc free year ! make a plan . get strong … save money ( very very well hidden money )… PLEASE get out ! I will pray for you .
make a quiet plan .. get out get out .. Please get out … it will only get worse… I will pray for you …
It is indeed. Better to say nothing because you do not want to become like them.
Being assertive with a narcissist is showing your cards and with the narcissist. Big mistake it’s like telling your enemy your plans
I learned about NPD and now I have to witness it between two siblings. One has been successful in going on with life through many tragedies and is surrounded by loving people. The other has destroyed relationships over and over again with “ losers”. Still competing for my mother’s love, only now they have to be together due to my Mom being diagnosed with a terminal illness. I love them both and I won’t take sides but I see the destructive dynamic between them. I wish I could give them some peace during this difficult time. The passing may be a relief from the family “bonds” that people think they have to honor even if it is unhealthy. Everyone has some narc in them but those who don’t try to do better are never going to change. They just can’t accept that we all have choices. It is so sad to watch but I am glad that I won’t engage, even though it is perceived as “taking sides” or “ older sister syndrome”. I am quietly assertive but I refuse to take bait.
Keep you eye out in the next few weeks for a video about how narcissists implode. Your description of the 2nd brother fits the depiction perfectly. Dr. C