More like the Freakanoreans, am I right? My favorite moment in his story is right after the Doom of Mandos announcement when everyone was trembling but Feanor. He gave a speech that basically boiled down to "yeah yeah, blah blah, doom and gloom, but do you have a pair of balls though? Do you even have a pair?" The more madlad elves we get, the better, in my opinion.
I always think of Feanor's sons as being the first longest-enduring of all of Feanor's victims. Lives rent out of shape in servitude to their father's fire. Stunted and not fully formed by his presence, as it were. Nerdanel at least had a choice to associate with Feanor, their children had none. I mean, being born of Finwe's line does not mean anything but fleeting happiness, sorrow, grief, and loss (one or two partial exceptions aside) - but being born with Feanor as your father is like winning a share in a terrible lottery jackpot.
Weren't all of them already fully matured adults by the time the Oath happened? They don't get to hide behind their father's influence for swearing to brutally murder even those who happened upon the damned rocks and wanted nothing to do with them, nor have they eny excuse for their despicable behavior unrelated to the Silmarils, such as what happened in Nargothrond.
They chose to take the oath. That's part of the tragedy. The decision haunts the remainder of their lives- no matter their characters otherwise, they were the people who took that oath.
21:16 "Maedhros is the wise and tempered one... until suddenly he isn't". I find it interesting that Maedhros worst actions, sacking of Doriath and Havens of Sirion, take place after Fingon's death. Death that happened because of Maedhros's plans and the failure of said plans.
I certainly think that's a factor. Kind of like he gave up on careful planning after his plans got his favorite cousin killed, and decided to just go on a rampage.
@@GirlNextGondor Late reply I know, but I just found this video. I think that by the end Maedhros was a broken man and self destructive. His upbringing wouldnt have resulted in the mose well balanced mental state, we know he was disturbed by his father's betrayal and burning of the ships, and his father's subsiqent death before Maedhros had the chance to come to terms with those feelings wouldnt have helped. Add in his torture by Morgoth and you're looking at some deep mental scars meaning it was impresive that he was as stable and sensible as he was for much of the subsiquent events. But the death of Fingon, possibly in Maedhros's mind in part due to the responsibility of the position Fingon held due to Maedhros's decicion to give up the kingship, that was probably the final straw and he mentaly broke. His final actions speak to me of someone who, conciously or not, has given up all hope and, is actively seeking their own end just to... make it stop becaues they can't deal with the things they've experianced anymore.
It’s actually really fascinating how, as you point out, none of them are major characters in individual stories yet they drive the plot, none are extremely developed but their diversity gives them depth, and so on. Just goes to show how genius Tolkien was.
@@waltonsmith7210 I wonder how long that might have taken though. Given the number of things we have learned from later books about things Tolkien was at least thinking about changing, it could have taken decades still.
There's some principle here that ties into something I've been pondering since the Gurthang-v-Narsil video, where Middle-earth achieves incredible depth simply because of the repetition of motifs with variation. I'm not sure Tolkien consciously had that in mind when he worked those elements in, but it fits in really well with the whole sub-creation thing he has going on, so I tend to doubt it's purely coincidental!
@@GirlNextGondor Thats a brilliant insight. You do see the repetition of a few really deep themes that hit close to the core of what it means to be human: the nature of art, the nature of power and corruption, temptation, courage, mortality vs immortality, etc. I wonder if we would've gotten more in his lifetime if the position of "professional fantasy writer" existed back then. If he hadnt had to do all the work of actually being a professor and could live the lifestyle of a Brandon Sanderson, maybe we'd have the Silmarillion.
One of my favorite family traits is how each son is 'among the best in the world' at something, which means if a Feanorian is not Better Than You in a particular field, there's a very good chance one (or more) of his brothers is. And people wonder why they're so overconfident....
@@GirlNextGondor Lexi, I hope everything is okay with you and your family. You haven't put out a video in a while. We are all dying for some more of your content and wit. Right now everything is about The Rings of Power series. I hope you can avoid getting into that mess. It is just divisive.
Something tells me that Christmas at the Feanor household would make Henry II's dysfunctional family in The Lion in Winter look loving and peaceful by comparison.
Snort laughed at @2:11 😅😭🤣🤣🤣 Honestly, the Feanorions remind me of Indian families. Even the first time i read the Silm, when i barely understood anything, their family was giving me war flashbacks to family issues I've seen here, and the way Feanor behaves is so... We've all seen dads behave this way here in extended families, friend circles, neighborhoods... The step family story, and Nerdanel being left in the dust, the unquestionable obedience to the Father while the mother has no power in the household certainly by comparison, the deference to older brothers, Feanor creeping on his niece of all things, his son deciding to abduct a woman to coerce her... All of it is also very 80s Bollywood vibes. And of course, some of it is still real life.
It's been said before that the reason Elves are so detached and isolated in the Third Age is because all the proud, ambitious ones were killed off in the First 😆
I once heard that having so many sons was a compliment to Nerdanel's strength more so than Feanor's ambition considering how harsh the childbearing process is on the Eldar. If only more of the boys were mother's sons rather than father's.
I do find it a bit surprising that Feanor has an apparently... cavalier attitude toward procreation, considering his mother's fate. It seems he was drawn to Nerdanel, despite her average looks, because of her strength of will; maybe he knew he needed to prioritize a woman who could keep up with him, in every sense. And even then, maybe the reason the boys all take after their father so much is because he was the one with the surplus of energy to put into their creation?
I have always assumed that female Elves did not experience pain during childbirth, with the exception of Miriel, and that was deep anguish and depression more than physical pain. My reason for this is because according to the Bible, the pain during childbirth is a result of Eve's sin in the Garden of Eden. Personally, I don't think Elves are born into "sin" like mankind is. I wonder if the Good Catholic Professor would agree with my take on this topic?🤔
My understanding is that while elves do put more of their strength and will into their children than men do (and male elves actually contribute to this), because in elves their fëa and hröa are more tightly coupled, childbirth for the elves is actually much easier. Elves celebrate the date of the child's conception, not the date of their birth. I wonder if this putting of their strength and will into their children actually occurs at conception.
@@Enerdhil Elves can only conceive with a deliberate decision of both partners, which solves a whole lot of problems (although, as Aredhel shows, not all).
I like what you said about how the sons of Feanor COULD be reduced to 2 for the plot, but that they very fact of there being 7 makes it more nuanced and intriguing/ less simplistic
Thank you! I thought it was a very nifty authorial trick - built-in character development in half the time! Though, whether Tolkien planned it that way or it was just another happy by-product of his drawing on legendary motifs, I can't say 😉
Tolkien is known for being the kind of writer whose characters often appeared out of nowhere and took control of the story. Just as there are pantser writers and plotser writers (and Tolkien was a pantser), there are writers whose characters Do What They Are Told or Else, and writers whose characters stroll in a say “oh that’s supposed to be my role, isn’t it? two lines and walk off stage? I don’t think so.” Faramir did this to him. Maybe the Fëanorians did too. I like to imagine that for Tolkien his secondary creation was so vivid and present that he wouldn’t be surprised one day to open the door to a tall one-handed ginger with some very pointed questions.
The absolute SHADE with Celebrimbor. It's ok, I'm still not over it either. 😆 We got just enough scattered information regarding the Feanorians, but yet so little that's concrete, it leads the way to a ton of speculation and exploration. Silm meta and fic is just filled to the brim with this family; they are undoubtedly fan favorites!
I swear, I'm trying to come to terms with it, but Tyelpe deserved better 😭 I think Tolkien left the most space for 'other minds and hands' with this family; you get just enough detail to suggest their 'type' but everything else is pretty much open to interpretation. They're like those really intricate coloring sheets; the lines are there, so you don't have to start from scratch, but you can fill them in however you want.
"Smithing hammer indicative of not being an accountant" had me CACKLING. Anyways, the video was lovely and I always appreciate hearing your thoughts on the Fëanorians - you do a great job of balancing your appreciation for the characters with the unavoidable fact that they were deeply, DEEPLY flawed. Nuanced takes on the family are few and far between imho, so you're doing great work out here! I'll be eagerly awaiting your individual videos on the Fëanorians! :^)
🤣 I swear, I'm trying to get the saltiness out of my system, but I haven't quite reconciled myself yet. Glad you enjoyed this take! I love a good antivillain, but I know a lot of people find these characters simply frustrating or appalling and, well, they do have their reasons.
And so was Turin but it doesn't make him any less heroic. I think we're meant to view these characters more in the manner of a Greek tragedy and epic poetry rather than anything else. Tragic circumstance, afflictive emotions and caught between forces too great and beyond their control. I think compassion and pity should be available more than saltiness and judging them on their misbehaviour. Assessing and judging these characters in a cognitive fashion according to one's own morals or to the standards of modern psychology is missing the mark on how these stories imo are best appreciated.
"The Little Murder Family That Could".....oh my, that is the most HILARIOUS thing I've ever heard :D. Your way with words, coupled with your in-depth analysis, is why I love your videos so much (I think only In Deep Geek goes as deep into the lore as you do).
In my MERP campaign, he is. I have him skulking around his old stomping ground of northern Forlindon and upper Numeriador, an embittered and (as you say) moody character. He has a small retinue of loyal Noldor, and they periodically move from place to place as their mood takes them. He is occasionally found at his brothers old gaff (Barad Caranthir). Cirdan and Elrond keep tabs on him from time to time as : A) He was Elronds foster father, and B) He is still a Noldor Prince from before the First Age, powerful and dangerous. A veritable 'loose cannon', .........and best left alone.
"Sir not appearing in this video" nice Monty Python touch 🤣 And nice to see the mighty Celebrimbor as he should be. On a more serious note the Alexey Rudikov painting of Feanor is exceptionally powerful. I've always loved that painting. Superb visuals!
I appreciate that you have the classiness to say "um... progenerative" instead of making a dirty joke like so many UA-cam nerds would have. Keep it up!
Not my favorite Tolkien-tuber uploading the moment I sit down to start a video for background noise to do a project. Well, I guess that project will have to wait, this deserves my undivided attention.
You really got me laughing with the 'sir-not-appearing in this video' remark love Monty Python, so good reference Lexi! As to the Feanorians, the thought experiment of reducing them to two could be doable but part of me cringes and cannot actually imagine there being less than 7 sons of Feanor due in no small part to the manner and detail into which Tolkien went into on various ones and the importance that some of them journeying in pairs (the middle-brothers) and the importance of Maglor and so much more. With one burnt aboard a ship, and others perishing in the later wars of the First Age, I can't help but think there was good reason for there to be 7. And your simping for Feanor's brood is noted, and I'll raise you that I can simp no less hard for Maedhros & Maglor, alongside the children of Finarfin ;). Anyways this was a fantastic video.
I've always kinda wondered about the descendents of Fëanor but because you mentioned how we aren't told about Fëanor's children's own families, it makes me think that there are other descendents in Middle-Earth besides Celebrimbor
@@GirlNextGondor I'm of the same mind. The Faenorians as a whole but especially High King Curufinwë has some of the most compelling and "grey" motivations of probably anyone in the legendarium.
It is probably very difficult to say "No," to Feanor. I don't imagine he heard it often. Add that charisma to being Mr. Arda handsome and it becomes clear how he ended up with a record number of children. Of course he wants lots of kids. They are clones of himself with a bit of the woman he evidently can't get enough of to add some chaos and spice to the mix. They are additions to his list of the stuff he's made:: new script? They fit in right after the Silmarils. The first Kinslaying is what happens when the paragon Chaotic Neutral gets told, "No" by those he considers indebted to him. How dare they! Someone as Narcissist as Feanor would love and encourage the parts of his sons that reminded him of himself. Of course the kids follow their mad genius dad into Doom. Speaking of Doom, the Curse of Mandos is most obviously demonstrated in the last conversation between Maedhros and Maglor. If there were any potential Good Guys it would be these two of the seven. If you follow the logic of the conversation, the logical thing with the best chance of success is to hop a ride Home and sue for pardon. These are the same Ainur that pardoned Melkor so the odds are in their favor. Are they fully aware that, Eonwe, greatest weapon master in Arda, is in the command tent just right over there? Yes. Do they tacitly agree that this is probably the stupidest thing ever done by an elf besides making the Oath in the first place? Yes. Then they do it anyway. A few more bodies to add to the count, the last bit of your honor stripped away. And in the end, the Silmarils burn you, just like they would Carcharoth or Morgoth. Some things, once you do them, can't be undone.
@TheThirdRichard The Valar would have to appeal to Eru as he was the ultimate Authority called to witness the oath. What He witnessed was his Children being arrogant, rash foolhardy, and catastrophically ignorant. If M&M were humble and repentant for the mountain of misdeeds they were responsible for in pursuit of their impossible oath, it might create a eucatastrophe moment. But, as Maedhros implies, the Oath will find a way to bring about the worst scenario never the best.
@TheThirdRichard well. Maedhros can’t have forgotten the eagle. But yes, after that, it was “fuck you, come back with the Silmarils or forget any help” from the Valar. I also honestly think that Meadhros had been trying to die in pursuit of his Oath since the Nirnaeth.
Imagining the rest of the clan in Mandos, drawing maps and charts of the tides and prevailing currents 😂 "It *has* to be somewhere, we just need to break out of here and then we'll find it sooner or later...."
Please don’t give up. You’re one of my favorite Tolkien channels. I remember it was a blow to have to delete a lot of videos but your channel has inspired me. Don’t give up!
You're not alone; the complicated naming conventions is one of the most complained-about (and satirized) part of the Silmarillion. Glad you enjoyed it!
One of those pesky throwaway lines; I hunted it down and found out it's in Morgoth's Ring that she's noted as having been silver-haired (and dark-eyed!) Very odd for a Noldo. There's a contradictory description in Nature of Middle-earth, of course 😆 The silver/gold symbolism between her and Indis is a nice touch, and it provides one avenue for explaining how Celegorm could be called 'the Fair' when he's apparently got no Vanyarin heritage.
Just noting that while Maglor in the pre-LotR writings survived (this was adopted into the published Silmarillion), in later writings Maglor perishes by casting himself into the sea: "The last two sons of Feanor, compelled by their oath, steal them, and are destroyed by them, casting themselves into the sea, and the pits of the earth." Letter 131 "The other two Silmarils were also taken by the Valar from the crown of Morgoth. But the last surviving sons of Feänor (Maedros and Maglor), in a despairing attempt to carry out the Oath, stole them again. But they were tormented by them, and at last they perished each with a jewel: one in a fiery cleft in the earth, and one in the sea." Concerning... The Hoard Maglor's death is also implied: "The sons of Eärendil were Elros and Elrond, the Peredhil or Half-elven. In them alone the line of the heroic chieftains of the Edain in the First Age was preserved; and after the fall of Gil-galad the lineage of the High-elven Kings was also in Middle-earth only represented by their descendants." LotR "Galad occurs also in the epessë of Ereinion (‘scion of kings') by which he was chiefly remembered in legend, Gil-galad ‘star of radiance’: he was the last king of the Eldar in Middle-earth, and the last male descendant of Finwë except Elrond the Half-elven." Shibboleth of Feanor
Agreed - the evolution of his fate is something I need to dive further into. This is one of those places where I think there's a good chance Tolkien would have gone with the 'cast-himself-into-the-sea' version, but I can't tell if I prefer that to the 'wanders-in-pain-and-regret' version. There's a nice parallelism if he and Maedhros both kill each other in their respective elements, but someone once pointed out that a surviving Maglor ends up paradoxically fulfilling the fate his father predicted for those who *remain* in Valinor: mourning deedless for ever, a shadow-folk, mist-haunting, dropping vain tears in the thankless sea. A real damned if you do, damned if you don't situation😅 (I'll see myself out....)
@@GirlNextGondor I myself prefer the 'wandered in pain and regret composing laments' variant, but Tolkien seems to have gone with the he dies version (this also appeared in an early version IIRC). In the event, I think people should be aware that Tolkien had a later version of Maglor's fate.
Excellent video! first age lore is definetly the best and you narration and editing is pretty soothing, just a small note i think at 0:56 you said that Finwe was king of the Noldor and the elves, but i think the high king of all the elves is Ingwe of the Vanyar, i might be wrong tho.
Ah - my script said 'Noldorin Elves;' I should have enunciated 😅 You're right of course, Ingwe is said to be acknowledged as king over all Elves. First Age ftw!
Working on catching up :) I'm in a delay, but I always keep you in mind, dear Lexi! I hope you are doing well...! And whenever you come back, Manwe and Varda's names will be mentioned in a fiery speech.
The Celebrimbor shade👏👏👏 Also I have to add- Fëanor did nothing wrong! On a more serious note- this was an amazing video!! I had been hoping you would make a vid on the shiny murder family and it did not disappoint!! If you ever get around to it, separate videos on all the boys would be awesome! Can't wait to see more great content!!
Now that I’ve watched this excellent video, I do feel the topic of the Noldor is one of your “signature brands” among the Tolkientube content creator community. congratulations on passing 6k subscribers and I’m looking forward to seeing you hit 10k and 100+ patrons!
Thank you, jose! Any time you need someone to do something plot-specific, and there's no reason for it to be anyone else but at the same time you don't want it to feel arbitrary: use a Son of Feanor 🤣
As always, a wonderful exposition of a fascinating aspect of JRR Tolkien's legendarium! And, as always I learn things beyond the specific scope... Though a psych major way back in the day, I had to google "parentification," which led me down a very interesting rabbit hole, right in the middle of the vid!!! Love&Peace
I’ve waiting for this since the channel started but I can say it was worth the wait!! Thank you! I don’t know why this screwed up fiction family is so interesting but I’m glad all of us that share this fascination can go through the world together 💙😂
...I went to press send on my comment and firefox died....so forgive me if this is the abbreviated version of what you would have had. One of my greatest laments about this world is that we don't have more on Nerdanel. I have to wonder if maybe she had some level of foresight that we don't know of that might have influenced things since foresight itself is 'foggy' at best and malleable. After all, I just find it rather strange given both how long elven pregnancies apparently are and how many were usually in a brood that she happened to have THAT many children. I just can't believe that it was just because her hubby was so irresistible and fertile. It kind of reeks of cosmic intervention to me. And like you said, not just yer kiddos but that line is so prominent throughout the series. And, statistically speaking, for them ALL to be sons? With some exceptions, who does history remember? The males of the line. Beyond that, thanks to her own pops she was a smith and craftsman herself. What would someone of her talents been able to help with given all the chaos to follow if she had joined her family? Did she ever get word of them isolated away from the wanderers? I have questions darn it! Get me the medium and lets channel this man's spirit darn it! Their not having a specific home also lends well to how far and wide they end up wandering, though. Fate's design perhaps? I freakin love your humor. I will never not be able to think of them as anything other than "The little murder family that could." Given some of the more traditionalist ways some of the sons willingness to follow might just be honor/duty... or "I've already got one foot in the quicksand I might as well sink." And, as you pointed out, helllooooo dysfunctional. Part of the reason there were seven might just be because the number is so significant in history. It's all through Christianity (Seven days, seven sins, seven sacraments, seven years plenty/seven famine) there was something in Islam, I believe about seven in pilgrimages or naming. There are seven Chakras. In Japanese myth there are the seven lucky gods. I believe there was something in Celtic myth but I'm blanking. To even popular usage, break a mirror and get seven years bad luck. 7 wonders of the world. A lot of astrological connections. Seven seas. Seventh son of a Seventh son.. so on and so forth. It's just seen as such a strong/important/cycling number.. that maybe he just wanted to weave in those elements into his own 'epic'. Love hte point about it taking their papa's death to really get to know the next generation. Thank you as always for your astounding work.
Faenor makes the none canon shadow of Mordor/war celebrimbor seem saintly compared to Faenor Could you imagine talion being bonded to Faenor geez it scary even Galadriel says she sees nothing but darkness in him
Honestly, getting back into the Silmarilion, it seems like most elves who held the Silmarils instead of giving them back to the house that founded them, got what they had coming, everyone knew of the kinslaying of the Toleri in pursuit of the jewels, so they should have expected a similar response by the Feanorians if they also refused to give up the Silmarils, I can’t decide wether all the other Elves were greedy or if the Feanorians were just bad, because most of the siblings did questionable things, (usually the middle 3) but they were driven by an oath which drove them forward, the other elves didn’t have any type of oath telling them to keep the Silmarils, it was just greed
It was greed. The silmarils caused anyone who gazed upon them or possessed them to covet and keep them. just like the ring of power. It would have been smart for the holders to give up the silly little jewels to the Faenorians just to keep them happy, but the Doom of Mandos decreed that doom would befall any who sought them. This included the non Faenorians.
@@MasterGhostf exactly, the fandom needs to hold these other elves accountable as well instead of just blaming the Feanorians who were following an oath
I would really like to know how having 2 feanorian brothers would have turned out, maybe the reason is that I'm biased towards the character I adore and I want him a more protagonic role😅
Thanks for this amazing video, Lexi. It was obviously a labor of love. After watching it, it is hard for me to hate the Feanorians as much as I did before. One question I have for you is, and maybe you could answer it in a video, Are Elves other than the Fëanorians capable of evil acts? We know Maeglin was. His daddy was probably evil depending on your interpretation of how Aredhel got pregnant with Maeglin. Personally, I always thing of the Elves as being as close to sinless as possible in Arda. I also think that is why they can go West to the Undying Lands or be reembodied at all. I also think Eru has to do something different with mankind to cleanse them from the pain and sin of the world. I think Eru sends men and women to a place of cleansing by which will take until the Dagor Dagorath. Just my own theory, but I would like to know your take on the concept of evil in Tolkien's world and who it affects and how it affects them. This is another video content concept that I think you and Steven would be great at tackling in a Collab. Sorry, if it seems I am trying to get you two together for another Collab, but I am. Guilty as charged.
Fascinating question. Unless there is something specific to the Fëanorians that leads them to be evil (besides following Fëanor), I would think so but it simply never made it into the histories that were written. P.S. There's always Adar P.P.S. That was a joke. Not a good joke I'll admit.
@@istari0 Tolkien must have mentioned somewhere that Elves do not fall into the same kinds of bad behavior that humans do. I can't imagine an Elf breaking any of the Ten Commandments. Maybe it is because I think Tolkien created the race of Man that he thought God had intended people to be before the Fall. In the Legendarium, mankind is prone to sin and give in to evil. The Elves have always seemed to me to be a counter balance to that.
@@Enerdhil I do recall reading something to that effect somewhere in HoME but can't begin to remember where. Then again, there are the Fëanorians, who are a thoroughly evil lot.
@@istari0 It would be amazing that they know the day of conception, much less celebrate it. But I love the idea. Abortionists have been losing big time in the Federal Courts. Soon Roe vs Wade will be overturned and then they will lose their collective minds... for no reason because New York can keep allowing ninth month abortions or post birth abortions because each state will make their own laws about abortion.
@@istari0 i don't think Tolkien would have said that about the feanorians. I think he would have pointed the finger at Morgoth for such an accusation, when in an interview, stated that he was several stages down than lucifer. (Topic was the luciferian fallen from grace analogy about melkor)
Like you needed any excuse to talk about one of the most toxic families in all of Arda. 👌 Btw the artwork used reminds me of how well an anime adaptation of the legendarium could work. Off-topic, I know.
Well, toxic to the rest of Arda, but while they might have fought like cats and dogs among themselves, the *second* somebody said a word against one of them, bam! you were not dealing with That Jerk Amras but with the uttely solid front of the Sons of Fëanor (tm) and all their pointy sticks.
I have been quietly lobbying for animated/anime Silmarillion for years now. I can't think of a better way to unironically combine over-the-top violence, Manly Tears, epic speeches, a plot that's powered by grade-A extra-strength friendship, and flamboyant hair.
@@larsdejong7396 For convoluted plots, dysfunctional family relationships, and killing off a good portion of the characters, Hideaki Anno would be the choice.
...my dark side wants to frame this family's shenanigans as a terrible sit-com. All the stuff up to the Big Beach Barbeque would be in the opening, Fëanor's actor would leave in the first season so they'd have to write him out of the show early on, the second season would have episodes end with Maehdros hanging from Thangorodrim and making a terrible joke, and the next couple of seasons would be just goofs, gaffes, and wild dysfunction set during the Siege of Angband. "The Fëanorians was filmed on location, in front of a live studio audience!"
Oooh boy. Anything by thearrogantemu, especially relevant here is “Though All You Have Slain…” but her masterpiece is “These Gifts That You Have Given Me.” All of Himring for more Mardhros angst than you can handle. And my latest obsession, Clothonono, especially “Those who favour Fire”.
It's been forever since I read Another Man's Cage but it was absolutely formative. And I'd be remiss not to mention the venerable, unfinished, but still iconic "Leithian Script" / "A Boy, A Girl, and A Dog" if you've missed out on that one. Wish I had more recent recommendations but I've had a hard time settling into a good longform fic lately and I've just been consuming Kidnap Fam fluff oneshots like popcorn....
@@GirlNextGondor thearrogantemu, especially if you are joneseying for good (and tasteful!) silvergifting content. Anything that Scedasticity writes is utterly brilliant. Ditto Lilithsea and Clothonono.
Thank you guys for your recommendations!!! I will read all of them...... I am embarrassed to say I have mostly only read the self-insert/romance types of fics🤣🤣
Re. the Fëanorians as background characters: Given the way Tolkien chose to write the legends, there are no sources from them, or anyone who felt loyalty to them while writing. What we get is particularly Gondolin and Nargothrond-centric. If the Fëanorians did write their own stories, we don't get to hear much of it, though they may (or may not) get used here and there to explain motivations or reveal private debates.
You think Feanor having seven sons is a lot? Sam Gamgee had 13 children! ( Elanor, Frodo, Rose, Merry, Pippin, Goldilocks, Hamfast, Daisy, Primrose, Bilbo, Ruby, Robin, and Tolman Gamgee.)
Feanor was a fallen King.
Of him the harpers sadly sing.
He lost his Jewels and couldn't let go.
Thus led his children all to woe.
His crest was red, his lisp was keen
His fiery death afar was seen
And later, oft would say his clan,
"Don't fight a balrog hand-to-hand."
@@GirlNextGondor Nice 2nd verse! I love that Gil-galad poem. It's easy to change a few words and have some verses that apply to any character in Arda.
I know this is old, but I am glad I found it in my long travels across this world we call the internets. A gem buried in a fair glen, as it were.
Change Jewels to Marbles. A double meaning of losing his sanity and the silmarillions.
Fantastic
More like the Freakanoreans, am I right? My favorite moment in his story is right after the Doom of Mandos announcement when everyone was trembling but Feanor. He gave a speech that basically boiled down to "yeah yeah, blah blah, doom and gloom, but do you have a pair of balls though? Do you even have a pair?" The more madlad elves we get, the better, in my opinion.
I had to laugh really hard at that summary of Fëanor's reaction to the Doom of Mandos.
😂
Feanor and his family needed just a couple of therapy sessions, also said therapist would have needed years of therapy
Feanor nothing - if Finwe had gotten some postpartum family coaching, the whole problem could have been avoided!
@@GirlNextGondor
It was Míriel who wanted to die thus leaving her boys alone. She threw the snowball down the slope.
I don't think that therapist survives one session with Feanor himself, nor their office, nor the building
@@pedrovargas2181post-partum deppression in an immortal creature hits like Mike Tyson for real
A family of pretentious princes (looking at you, House of Fëanor), and you get a bunch of messed up stuff
Amazon have done it all wrong... They should have made Keeping up with the Feanorians.
Instant TV hit I tell you.
😁
So the Fëanorians being seven in number allows for them to partake of the song 'dumb ways to die,' basically.
🤣
Seven sons, because "7" is a traditionally magic number.
7 sons, 7 balrogs, we need a rematch, Tolkien overlooked that, c-tier writes that man
I always think of Feanor's sons as being the first longest-enduring of all of Feanor's victims. Lives rent out of shape in servitude to their father's fire. Stunted and not fully formed by his presence, as it were. Nerdanel at least had a choice to associate with Feanor, their children had none. I mean, being born of Finwe's line does not mean anything but fleeting happiness, sorrow, grief, and loss (one or two partial exceptions aside) - but being born with Feanor as your father is like winning a share in a terrible lottery jackpot.
Weren't all of them already fully matured adults by the time the Oath happened? They don't get to hide behind their father's influence for swearing to brutally murder even those who happened upon the damned rocks and wanted nothing to do with them, nor have they eny excuse for their despicable behavior unrelated to the Silmarils, such as what happened in Nargothrond.
They chose to take the oath. That's part of the tragedy. The decision haunts the remainder of their lives- no matter their characters otherwise, they were the people who took that oath.
The salt with Celebrimbor (note: not a tired old dad worried about his mortgage) made my entire week.
The hilarity almost makes up for it!... almost.
21:16 "Maedhros is the wise and tempered one... until suddenly he isn't".
I find it interesting that Maedhros worst actions, sacking of Doriath and Havens of Sirion, take place after Fingon's death. Death that happened because of Maedhros's plans and the failure of said plans.
I certainly think that's a factor. Kind of like he gave up on careful planning after his plans got his favorite cousin killed, and decided to just go on a rampage.
He lost hope with his cousin s death.
Or he got wracked with guilt and sorrow and went nuts
@@GirlNextGondor Late reply I know, but I just found this video.
I think that by the end Maedhros was a broken man and self destructive. His upbringing wouldnt have resulted in the mose well balanced mental state, we know he was disturbed by his father's betrayal and burning of the ships, and his father's subsiqent death before Maedhros had the chance to come to terms with those feelings wouldnt have helped. Add in his torture by Morgoth and you're looking at some deep mental scars meaning it was impresive that he was as stable and sensible as he was for much of the subsiquent events.
But the death of Fingon, possibly in Maedhros's mind in part due to the responsibility of the position Fingon held due to Maedhros's decicion to give up the kingship, that was probably the final straw and he mentaly broke. His final actions speak to me of someone who, conciously or not, has given up all hope and, is actively seeking their own end just to... make it stop becaues they can't deal with the things they've experianced anymore.
Fingon was 85% of his impulse control.
It’s actually really fascinating how, as you point out, none of them are major characters in individual stories yet they drive the plot, none are extremely developed but their diversity gives them depth, and so on. Just goes to show how genius Tolkien was.
If only he had finished the Silmarillion in his lifetime. What a book it wouldve been.
@@waltonsmith7210 I wonder how long that might have taken though. Given the number of things we have learned from later books about things Tolkien was at least thinking about changing, it could have taken decades still.
@@istari0 Honestly I think he'd need the lifetime of a Numenorean to really finish it.
There's some principle here that ties into something I've been pondering since the Gurthang-v-Narsil video, where Middle-earth achieves incredible depth simply because of the repetition of motifs with variation. I'm not sure Tolkien consciously had that in mind when he worked those elements in, but it fits in really well with the whole sub-creation thing he has going on, so I tend to doubt it's purely coincidental!
@@GirlNextGondor Thats a brilliant insight. You do see the repetition of a few really deep themes that hit close to the core of what it means to be human: the nature of art, the nature of power and corruption, temptation, courage, mortality vs immortality, etc. I wonder if we would've gotten more in his lifetime if the position of "professional fantasy writer" existed back then. If he hadnt had to do all the work of actually being a professor and could live the lifestyle of a Brandon Sanderson, maybe we'd have the Silmarillion.
Ah! The Feanorians. The greatest and most tragically complex family in history.
One of my favorite family traits is how each son is 'among the best in the world' at something, which means if a Feanorian is not Better Than You in a particular field, there's a very good chance one (or more) of his brothers is. And people wonder why they're so overconfident....
@@GirlNextGondor Overconfident to the point that they never realized that what they were truly best at was killing their own kind.
@@GirlNextGondor
Lexi, I hope everything is okay with you and your family. You haven't put out a video in a while. We are all dying for some more of your content and wit.
Right now everything is about The Rings of Power series. I hope you can avoid getting into that mess. It is just divisive.
Something tells me that Christmas at the Feanor household would make Henry II's dysfunctional family in The Lion in Winter look loving and peaceful by comparison.
Feanor and Richard the Lionheart are both brilliant but flawed.
@@capuchinhelper Richard never put 1 foot on england
Snort laughed at @2:11 😅😭🤣🤣🤣
Honestly, the Feanorions remind me of Indian families. Even the first time i read the Silm, when i barely understood anything, their family was giving me war flashbacks to family issues I've seen here, and the way Feanor behaves is so... We've all seen dads behave this way here in extended families, friend circles, neighborhoods... The step family story, and Nerdanel being left in the dust, the unquestionable obedience to the Father while the mother has no power in the household certainly by comparison, the deference to older brothers, Feanor creeping on his niece of all things, his son deciding to abduct a woman to coerce her... All of it is also very 80s Bollywood vibes.
And of course, some of it is still real life.
Soo true.
The Feanorians. A case of why pride and poor communications can cause disaster and tragedy. A staple of negative Elven traits.
It's been said before that the reason Elves are so detached and isolated in the Third Age is because all the proud, ambitious ones were killed off in the First 😆
More a staple of Noldorin traits i would say. Feanors brood, rather than all elves
Is it pride or unforgiveness that is at the root of their problems? Their grudge and desire for revenge is what destroyed them.
@@GirlNextGondor The needs of the many (in this case, survival) outweighed the needs of the few (in this case, recovering the Silmarils).
@@Enerdhil Both I would say.
I once heard that having so many sons was a compliment to Nerdanel's strength more so than Feanor's ambition considering how harsh the childbearing process is on the Eldar. If only more of the boys were mother's sons rather than father's.
I do find it a bit surprising that Feanor has an apparently... cavalier attitude toward procreation, considering his mother's fate. It seems he was drawn to Nerdanel, despite her average looks, because of her strength of will; maybe he knew he needed to prioritize a woman who could keep up with him, in every sense. And even then, maybe the reason the boys all take after their father so much is because he was the one with the surplus of energy to put into their creation?
I have always assumed that female Elves did not experience pain during childbirth, with the exception of Miriel, and that was deep anguish and depression more than physical pain.
My reason for this is because according to the Bible, the pain during childbirth is a result of Eve's sin in the Garden of Eden. Personally, I don't think Elves are born into "sin" like mankind is. I wonder if the Good Catholic Professor would agree with my take on this topic?🤔
My understanding is that while elves do put more of their strength and will into their children than men do (and male elves actually contribute to this), because in elves their fëa and hröa are more tightly coupled, childbirth for the elves is actually much easier. Elves celebrate the date of the child's conception, not the date of their birth. I wonder if this putting of their strength and will into their children actually occurs at conception.
@@istari0
Where does it say that Elves celebrate the conception of their child? Abortion activists would hate that.
@@Enerdhil Elves can only conceive with a deliberate decision of both partners, which solves a whole lot of problems (although, as Aredhel shows, not all).
I like what you said about how the sons of Feanor COULD be reduced to 2 for the plot, but that they very fact of there being 7 makes it more nuanced and intriguing/ less simplistic
Thank you! I thought it was a very nifty authorial trick - built-in character development in half the time! Though, whether Tolkien planned it that way or it was just another happy by-product of his drawing on legendary motifs, I can't say 😉
Tolkien is known for being the kind of writer whose characters often appeared out of nowhere and took control of the story. Just as there are pantser writers and plotser writers (and Tolkien was a pantser), there are writers whose characters Do What They Are Told or Else, and writers whose characters stroll in a say “oh that’s supposed to be my role, isn’t it? two lines and walk off stage? I don’t think so.” Faramir did this to him. Maybe the Fëanorians did too. I like to imagine that for Tolkien his secondary creation was so vivid and present that he wouldn’t be surprised one day to open the door to a tall one-handed ginger with some very pointed questions.
The absolute SHADE with Celebrimbor. It's ok, I'm still not over it either. 😆
We got just enough scattered information regarding the Feanorians, but yet so little that's concrete, it leads the way to a ton of speculation and exploration. Silm meta and fic is just filled to the brim with this family; they are undoubtedly fan favorites!
I swear, I'm trying to come to terms with it, but Tyelpe deserved better 😭
I think Tolkien left the most space for 'other minds and hands' with this family; you get just enough detail to suggest their 'type' but everything else is pretty much open to interpretation. They're like those really intricate coloring sheets; the lines are there, so you don't have to start from scratch, but you can fill them in however you want.
@@GirlNextGondor "intricate coloring sheets" is a great analogy!
Now Nerdanel, I know you get bad vibes from this baby, but you don't have to try and name him "doomed".
"Smithing hammer indicative of not being an accountant" had me CACKLING. Anyways, the video was lovely and I always appreciate hearing your thoughts on the Fëanorians - you do a great job of balancing your appreciation for the characters with the unavoidable fact that they were deeply, DEEPLY flawed. Nuanced takes on the family are few and far between imho, so you're doing great work out here! I'll be eagerly awaiting your individual videos on the Fëanorians! :^)
🤣 I swear, I'm trying to get the saltiness out of my system, but I haven't quite reconciled myself yet.
Glad you enjoyed this take! I love a good antivillain, but I know a lot of people find these characters simply frustrating or appalling and, well, they do have their reasons.
That was such a sick burn 🤣
@@GirlNextGondor No, no! You must keep the saltiness! You wouldn't be GirlNextGondor without it!
And so was Turin but it doesn't make him any less heroic. I think we're meant to view these characters more in the manner of a Greek tragedy and epic poetry rather than anything else. Tragic circumstance, afflictive emotions and caught between forces too great and beyond their control. I think compassion and pity should be available more than saltiness and judging them on their misbehaviour.
Assessing and judging these characters in a cognitive fashion according to one's own morals or to the standards of modern psychology is missing the mark on how these stories imo are best appreciated.
@@istari0 we love the saltiness!
Ah, the Corleones of Middle Earth. Great video!
“Not wearing a nightgown” was when I broke into a full-throated cackle
"The Little Murder Family That Could".....oh my, that is the most HILARIOUS thing I've ever heard :D. Your way with words, coupled with your in-depth analysis, is why I love your videos so much (I think only In Deep Geek goes as deep into the lore as you do).
I like to think that Maglor is still out there, playing his harp and being all moody...
In my MERP campaign, he is.
I have him skulking around his old stomping ground of northern Forlindon and upper Numeriador, an embittered and (as you say) moody character.
He has a small retinue of loyal Noldor, and they periodically move from place to place as their mood takes them.
He is occasionally found at his brothers old gaff (Barad Caranthir).
Cirdan and Elrond keep tabs on him from time to time as :
A) He was Elronds foster father, and
B) He is still a Noldor Prince from before the First Age, powerful and dangerous. A veritable 'loose cannon', .........and best left alone.
He is
"Sir not appearing in this video" nice Monty Python touch 🤣 And nice to see the mighty Celebrimbor as he should be.
On a more serious note the Alexey Rudikov painting of Feanor is exceptionally powerful. I've always loved that painting. Superb visuals!
As a half-brother I can confirm that relationships are not always easy
There aren't many characters in fiction that I find entirely despicable, but Fëanor is a stand-out example.
Grumpy was always my favourite out of the 7 Feanorians.
Maedhros lol
I appreciate that you have the classiness to say "um... progenerative" instead of making a dirty joke like so many UA-cam nerds would have. Keep it up!
Stopped in to remind you that you are absolutely stellar, just in case you forgot.
That’s a great observation about using the Feanorians to show the many ways there are to fail. Thanks!
You're welcome! 🤣 Though I do wish that maybe they didn't *all* have to fail so very... spectacularly.
Obligatory Fëanor did alot wrong
I'm contractually obligated to deny this, difficult though that undeniably is after making this video.
@@GirlNextGondor You signed a contract with the Fëanorians? I hope you had them remove the clause about recovering certain gems.
He's innocent, your honour
@@GirlNextGondor Mhm.
If the family is evil, why are they all hot?
Not my favorite Tolkien-tuber uploading the moment I sit down to start a video for background noise to do a project. Well, I guess that project will have to wait, this deserves my undivided attention.
Ah, a familiar problem 🤣 I'm honored to be the cause of it. I did try to keep this one under 30 minutes, at least?....
@@GirlNextGondor Girl, I don't care if it's two hours as long as it's content as good as this! Don't limit yourself!
Your patreons are great at making decisions. I always love to hear your take on everyone's favorite disaster family!
They didn't let me down 😊 Hope you enjoy it, I know people have been waiting for this one!
"Not wearing a nightgown". 😂 Loved it!
You really got me laughing with the 'sir-not-appearing in this video' remark love Monty Python, so good reference Lexi!
As to the Feanorians, the thought experiment of reducing them to two could be doable but part of me cringes and cannot actually imagine there being less than 7 sons of Feanor due in no small part to the manner and detail into which Tolkien went into on various ones and the importance that some of them journeying in pairs (the middle-brothers) and the importance of Maglor and so much more. With one burnt aboard a ship, and others perishing in the later wars of the First Age, I can't help but think there was good reason for there to be 7.
And your simping for Feanor's brood is noted, and I'll raise you that I can simp no less hard for Maedhros & Maglor, alongside the children of Finarfin ;). Anyways this was a fantastic video.
I've always kinda wondered about the descendents of Fëanor but because you mentioned how we aren't told about Fëanor's children's own families, it makes me think that there are other descendents in Middle-Earth besides Celebrimbor
Gotta love the "blatant Faenorian partisanship". Wouldn't have it any other way!
Glad you don't mind it 🤣 I can't help my biases but at least I can own them.
@@GirlNextGondor I'm of the same mind. The Faenorians as a whole but especially High King Curufinwë has some of the most compelling and "grey" motivations of probably anyone in the legendarium.
It is probably very difficult to say "No," to Feanor. I don't imagine he heard it often. Add that charisma to being Mr. Arda handsome and it becomes clear how he ended up with a record number of children. Of course he wants lots of kids. They are clones of himself with a bit of the woman he evidently can't get enough of to add some chaos and spice to the mix. They are additions to his list of the stuff he's made:: new script? They fit in right after the Silmarils. The first Kinslaying is what happens when the paragon Chaotic Neutral gets told, "No" by those he considers indebted to him. How dare they! Someone as Narcissist as Feanor would love and encourage the parts of his sons that reminded him of himself. Of course the kids follow their mad genius dad into Doom.
Speaking of Doom, the Curse of Mandos is most obviously demonstrated in the last conversation between Maedhros and Maglor. If there were any potential Good Guys it would be these two of the seven. If you follow the logic of the conversation, the logical thing with the best chance of success is to hop a ride Home and sue for pardon. These are the same Ainur that pardoned Melkor so the odds are in their favor. Are they fully aware that, Eonwe, greatest weapon master in Arda, is in the command tent just right over there? Yes. Do they tacitly agree that this is probably the stupidest thing ever done by an elf besides making the Oath in the first place? Yes. Then they do it anyway. A few more bodies to add to the count, the last bit of your honor stripped away. And in the end, the Silmarils burn you, just like they would Carcharoth or Morgoth. Some things, once you do them, can't be undone.
@TheThirdRichard The Valar would have to appeal to Eru as he was the ultimate Authority called to witness the oath. What He witnessed was his Children being arrogant, rash foolhardy, and catastrophically ignorant. If M&M were humble and repentant for the mountain of misdeeds they were responsible for in pursuit of their impossible oath, it might create a eucatastrophe moment. But, as Maedhros implies, the Oath will find a way to bring about the worst scenario never the best.
@TheThirdRichard well. Maedhros can’t have forgotten the eagle. But yes, after that, it was “fuck you, come back with the Silmarils or forget any help” from the Valar. I also honestly think that Meadhros had been trying to die in pursuit of his Oath since the Nirnaeth.
@TheThirdRichard yes because if it was for Maedhros, it sure took its time.
@@annafdd exactly, in his last years he was decided to die and end everything
If maglor threw his silmaril into the ocean, it cant be that far from the coast, and can be found with some good luck
Imagining the rest of the clan in Mandos, drawing maps and charts of the tides and prevailing currents 😂 "It *has* to be somewhere, we just need to break out of here and then we'll find it sooner or later...."
@@GirlNextGondor the question is, would a silmaril float or sink?
@@halikarnak1862sink
30 min individual analysis videos for each of Feonor’s kids when?
As soon as I can convince them to sit for the interviews 😂
Please don’t give up. You’re one of my favorite Tolkien channels. I remember it was a blow to have to delete a lot of videos but your channel has inspired me. Don’t give up!
As you know, I can't keep names straight,, but I am enjoying learning about the family dynamics. Nice job!
You're not alone; the complicated naming conventions is one of the most complained-about (and satirized) part of the Silmarillion. Glad you enjoyed it!
Don't sweat it, even Tolkien forgot what names he gave people
I wonder why Miriel is so often depicted as silver haired when she is a Noldo.
One of those pesky throwaway lines; I hunted it down and found out it's in Morgoth's Ring that she's noted as having been silver-haired (and dark-eyed!) Very odd for a Noldo. There's a contradictory description in Nature of Middle-earth, of course 😆
The silver/gold symbolism between her and Indis is a nice touch, and it provides one avenue for explaining how Celegorm could be called 'the Fair' when he's apparently got no Vanyarin heritage.
The elvish equivalent of recessive genetics perhaps?
I don’t care what anyone says, I would totally have followed Feanor to middle-earth
@TheThirdRichard I like that UA-cam is offering me to translate that into English.
@TheThirdRichard alas, I didn’t try and it doesn’t show on my phone!
@TheThirdRichard I know, but I was curious to see if UA-cam did. (At one point I could almost sing the Oath. In Quenya. )
I'm just gonna leave this here:
ua-cam.com/video/w7jC6Jf2iUA/v-deo.html
@@GirlNextGondor exactly.
Thanks, Lexi. Watching now!
Hope you enjoy it as much as I loved making it 😆
Lol the little murder family that could 😂😍
The family that kinslays together stays together 😂
Yeah, that line smote my ruin upon the mountainside. 😂🤣😵💀
Just noting that while Maglor in the pre-LotR writings survived (this was adopted into the published Silmarillion), in later writings Maglor perishes by casting himself into the sea:
"The last two sons of Feanor, compelled by their oath, steal them, and are destroyed by them, casting themselves into the sea, and the pits of the earth."
Letter 131
"The other two Silmarils were also taken by the Valar from the crown of Morgoth. But the last surviving sons of Feänor (Maedros and Maglor), in a despairing attempt to carry out the Oath, stole them again. But they were tormented by them, and at last they perished each with a jewel: one in a fiery cleft in the earth, and one in the sea."
Concerning... The Hoard
Maglor's death is also implied:
"The sons of Eärendil were Elros and Elrond, the Peredhil or Half-elven. In them alone the line of the heroic chieftains of the Edain in the First Age was preserved; and after the fall of Gil-galad the lineage of the High-elven Kings was also in Middle-earth only represented by their descendants."
LotR
"Galad occurs also in the epessë of Ereinion (‘scion of kings') by which he was chiefly remembered in legend, Gil-galad ‘star of radiance’: he was the last king of the Eldar in Middle-earth, and the last male descendant of Finwë except Elrond the Half-elven."
Shibboleth of Feanor
Agreed - the evolution of his fate is something I need to dive further into. This is one of those places where I think there's a good chance Tolkien would have gone with the 'cast-himself-into-the-sea' version, but I can't tell if I prefer that to the 'wanders-in-pain-and-regret' version. There's a nice parallelism if he and Maedhros both kill each other in their respective elements, but someone once pointed out that a surviving Maglor ends up paradoxically fulfilling the fate his father predicted for those who *remain* in Valinor: mourning deedless for ever, a shadow-folk, mist-haunting, dropping vain tears in the thankless sea.
A real damned if you do, damned if you don't situation😅 (I'll see myself out....)
@@GirlNextGondor I myself prefer the 'wandered in pain and regret composing laments' variant, but Tolkien seems to have gone with the he dies version (this also appeared in an early version IIRC).
In the event, I think people should be aware that Tolkien had a later version of Maglor's fate.
Love that magical kiss art .
Excellent video! first age lore is definetly the best and you narration and editing is pretty soothing, just a small note i think at 0:56 you said that Finwe was king of the Noldor and the elves, but i think the high king of all the elves is Ingwe of the Vanyar, i might be wrong tho.
Ah - my script said 'Noldorin Elves;' I should have enunciated 😅 You're right of course, Ingwe is said to be acknowledged as king over all Elves. First Age ftw!
@@GirlNextGondor No worries, you did a fantastic job :)
Congrats on 6K! Glad to have been along for the ride! Great video!
🎉 Thank you!! So glad you've stuck around!
GNG just letting you know that I love your content, and look forward to more. :-)
1:38 Wow. Beautiful drawing. I recognized the scene immediately from LOTRO, and love seeing it as artwork rather than in the game's dated graphics.
Good to see this one pop out! Will watch this evening 😀
Cheers! 🥰
Working on catching up :)
I'm in a delay, but I always keep you in mind, dear Lexi!
I hope you are doing well...! And whenever you come back, Manwe and Varda's names will be mentioned in a fiery speech.
The Celebrimbor shade👏👏👏
Also I have to add- Fëanor did nothing wrong!
On a more serious note- this was an amazing video!! I had been hoping you would make a vid on the shiny murder family and it did not disappoint!! If you ever get around to it, separate videos on all the boys would be awesome! Can't wait to see more great content!!
Woo; the Fëanorians are always fun so I’m excited to dive into this one later. Always an exciting day to see a new video from you, great stuff indeed.
Now that I’ve watched this excellent video, I do feel the topic of the Noldor is one of your “signature brands” among the Tolkientube content creator community. congratulations on passing 6k subscribers and I’m looking forward to seeing you hit 10k and 100+ patrons!
Oh! This was so good! Wonderful!
So glad you enjoyed it! Despite the delays it was a really fun one to work on.
Feanor is complicated sometimes he's Good and sometimes he is evil.
It's been a while. Hope you haven't cashed in your chips; you make terrific content.
2:12 (not wearing a nightgown) loving the shade, lmao
Thanks lexi . Always a pleasure to get your alert. Bravo patrons ( topic choice)
You're very welcome, Shane. I was very proud of my patrons' choice 🤣
Yay! I've been excited for this one!
Great stuff as ever GNG. I feel like there are so many of them, because they have so much plot to carry. Thanks and keep up the good work.
Thank you, jose!
Any time you need someone to do something plot-specific, and there's no reason for it to be anyone else but at the same time you don't want it to feel arbitrary: use a Son of Feanor 🤣
@@GirlNextGondor Works very well in the 1st Age, not so well afterwards!
Looking forward to seeing more of these community choice videos.
Me too! It's really neat to get that input from audience members.
Please come back
Now when is the Celebrimbor video?
What a GREAT idea.
Oh man!!!!!i would love to hear more about feanorians from you!!!! i would watch any feanorian character study you do
Excellent closing remark!
As always, a wonderful exposition of a fascinating aspect of JRR Tolkien's legendarium! And, as always I learn things beyond the specific scope...
Though a psych major way back in the day, I had to google "parentification," which led me down a very interesting rabbit hole, right in the middle of the vid!!!
Love&Peace
Great Video on the Feanorians. Gotta say, the sons of Feanor actually inspired characters for a story that I'm worldbuilding right now.
I’ve waiting for this since the channel started but I can say it was worth the wait!! Thank you! I don’t know why this screwed up fiction family is so interesting but I’m glad all of us that share this fascination can go through the world together 💙😂
...I went to press send on my comment and firefox died....so forgive me if this is the abbreviated version of what you would have had.
One of my greatest laments about this world is that we don't have more on Nerdanel. I have to wonder if maybe she had some level of foresight that we don't know of that might have influenced things since foresight itself is 'foggy' at best and malleable. After all, I just find it rather strange given both how long elven pregnancies apparently are and how many were usually in a brood that she happened to have THAT many children. I just can't believe that it was just because her hubby was so irresistible and fertile. It kind of reeks of cosmic intervention to me. And like you said, not just yer kiddos but that line is so prominent throughout the series. And, statistically speaking, for them ALL to be sons? With some exceptions, who does history remember? The males of the line.
Beyond that, thanks to her own pops she was a smith and craftsman herself. What would someone of her talents been able to help with given all the chaos to follow if she had joined her family? Did she ever get word of them isolated away from the wanderers? I have questions darn it! Get me the medium and lets channel this man's spirit darn it!
Their not having a specific home also lends well to how far and wide they end up wandering, though. Fate's design perhaps?
I freakin love your humor. I will never not be able to think of them as anything other than "The little murder family that could."
Given some of the more traditionalist ways some of the sons willingness to follow might just be honor/duty... or "I've already got one foot in the quicksand I might as well sink." And, as you pointed out, helllooooo dysfunctional.
Part of the reason there were seven might just be because the number is so significant in history. It's all through Christianity (Seven days, seven sins, seven sacraments, seven years plenty/seven famine) there was something in Islam, I believe about seven in pilgrimages or naming. There are seven Chakras. In Japanese myth there are the seven lucky gods. I believe there was something in Celtic myth but I'm blanking. To even popular usage, break a mirror and get seven years bad luck. 7 wonders of the world. A lot of astrological connections. Seven seas. Seventh son of a Seventh son.. so on and so forth. It's just seen as such a strong/important/cycling number.. that maybe he just wanted to weave in those elements into his own 'epic'.
Love hte point about it taking their papa's death to really get to know the next generation.
Thank you as always for your astounding work.
Great job!
Thanks! 🥰
Excellent analysis, as always. Keep up the good work, and the restoration of the channel.
Thank you! I will persevere and get all the videos restored if it takes me until the Remaking of Arda to do it.
GirlNextGondor: The Feanoreans were basically a disaster smoothie
Me: *Big, loud sip*
🍹
A refreshing, nutrient-dense, *delicious* disaster smoothie....
Nice work thanks
Thank you too!
Faenor makes the none canon shadow of Mordor/war celebrimbor seem saintly compared to Faenor
Could you imagine talion being bonded to Faenor geez it scary even Galadriel says she sees nothing but darkness in him
This is the best video on the subject I’ve ever listened to
Honestly, getting back into the Silmarilion, it seems like most elves who held the Silmarils instead of giving them back to the house that founded them, got what they had coming, everyone knew of the kinslaying of the Toleri in pursuit of the jewels, so they should have expected a similar response by the Feanorians if they also refused to give up the Silmarils, I can’t decide wether all the other Elves were greedy or if the Feanorians were just bad, because most of the siblings did questionable things, (usually the middle 3) but they were driven by an oath which drove them forward, the other elves didn’t have any type of oath telling them to keep the Silmarils, it was just greed
It was greed. The silmarils caused anyone who gazed upon them or possessed them to covet and keep them. just like the ring of power. It would have been smart for the holders to give up the silly little jewels to the Faenorians just to keep them happy, but the Doom of Mandos decreed that doom would befall any who sought them. This included the non Faenorians.
@@MasterGhostf exactly, the fandom needs to hold these other elves accountable as well instead of just blaming the Feanorians who were following an oath
Nice work
We need a "Dumb Ways to Die" parody of them.
I would really like to know how having 2 feanorian brothers would have turned out, maybe the reason is that I'm biased towards the character I adore and I want him a more protagonic role😅
Let's be honest, we all want a book that's just about Maedhros 🤣
@@GirlNextGondor Indeed
I Love Maedhros most of all second place is Feanor and then Maglor
I'll say it yet again, you're the best.
As always, wonderfully inciteful.
great video!
They need to make a movie or series on the war of wrath and on how the numenorians got their island
Oh well played...."Sir not appearing in this video" brava
another great video, very very well told. I love story times especially before bed.
Thanks for this amazing video, Lexi. It was obviously a labor of love. After watching it, it is hard for me to hate the Feanorians as much as I did before.
One question I have for you is, and maybe you could answer it in a video, Are Elves other than the Fëanorians capable of evil acts? We know Maeglin was. His daddy was probably evil depending on your interpretation of how Aredhel got pregnant with Maeglin. Personally, I always thing of the Elves as being as close to sinless as possible in Arda. I also think that is why they can go West to the Undying Lands or be reembodied at all. I also think Eru has to do something different with mankind to cleanse them from the pain and sin of the world. I think Eru sends men and women to a place of cleansing by which will take until the Dagor Dagorath. Just my own theory, but I would like to know your take on the concept of evil in Tolkien's world and who it affects and how it affects them. This is another video content concept that I think you and Steven would be great at tackling in a Collab. Sorry, if it seems I am trying to get you two together for another Collab, but I am. Guilty as charged.
Fascinating question. Unless there is something specific to the Fëanorians that leads them to be evil (besides following Fëanor), I would think so but it simply never made it into the histories that were written.
P.S. There's always Adar
P.P.S. That was a joke. Not a good joke I'll admit.
@@istari0
Tolkien must have mentioned somewhere that Elves do not fall into the same kinds of bad behavior that humans do. I can't imagine an Elf breaking any of the Ten Commandments. Maybe it is because I think Tolkien created the race of Man that he thought God had intended people to be before the Fall. In the Legendarium, mankind is prone to sin and give in to evil. The Elves have always seemed to me to be a counter balance to that.
@@Enerdhil I do recall reading something to that effect somewhere in HoME but can't begin to remember where. Then again, there are the Fëanorians, who are a thoroughly evil lot.
@@istari0
It would be amazing that they know the day of conception, much less celebrate it. But I love the idea.
Abortionists have been losing big time in the Federal Courts. Soon Roe vs Wade will be overturned and then they will lose their collective minds... for no reason because New York can keep allowing ninth month abortions or post birth abortions because each state will make their own laws about abortion.
@@istari0 i don't think Tolkien would have said that about the feanorians. I think he would have pointed the finger at Morgoth for such an accusation, when in an interview, stated that he was several stages down than lucifer. (Topic was the luciferian fallen from grace analogy about melkor)
Great analysis
The Fëanorians..... that's a reality show i would watch 😂
Like you needed any excuse to talk about one of the most toxic families in all of Arda. 👌
Btw the artwork used reminds me of how well an anime adaptation of the legendarium could work. Off-topic, I know.
Well, toxic to the rest of Arda, but while they might have fought like cats and dogs among themselves, the *second* somebody said a word against one of them, bam! you were not dealing with That Jerk Amras but with the uttely solid front of the Sons of Fëanor (tm) and all their pointy sticks.
I have been quietly lobbying for animated/anime Silmarillion for years now. I can't think of a better way to unironically combine over-the-top violence, Manly Tears, epic speeches, a plot that's powered by grade-A extra-strength friendship, and flamboyant hair.
@@GirlNextGondor especially with a talented writer in charge. Miyazaki or something.
@@larsdejong7396 For convoluted plots, dysfunctional family relationships, and killing off a good portion of the characters, Hideaki Anno would be the choice.
Perhaps feanor burned the ships because in his heart he wanted the elves to stay in valinor
...my dark side wants to frame this family's shenanigans as a terrible sit-com. All the stuff up to the Big Beach Barbeque would be in the opening, Fëanor's actor would leave in the first season so they'd have to write him out of the show early on, the second season would have episodes end with Maehdros hanging from Thangorodrim and making a terrible joke, and the next couple of seasons would be just goofs, gaffes, and wild dysfunction set during the Siege of Angband.
"The Fëanorians was filmed on location, in front of a live studio audience!"
as a silmarillion fanfic reader myself, would you please recommend some??????
Oooh boy. Anything by thearrogantemu, especially relevant here is “Though All You Have Slain…” but her masterpiece is “These Gifts That You Have Given Me.” All of Himring for more Mardhros angst than you can handle. And my latest obsession, Clothonono, especially “Those who favour Fire”.
It's been forever since I read Another Man's Cage but it was absolutely formative. And I'd be remiss not to mention the venerable, unfinished, but still iconic "Leithian Script" / "A Boy, A Girl, and A Dog" if you've missed out on that one. Wish I had more recent recommendations but I've had a hard time settling into a good longform fic lately and I've just been consuming Kidnap Fam fluff oneshots like popcorn....
@@GirlNextGondor thearrogantemu, especially if you are joneseying for good (and tasteful!) silvergifting content. Anything that Scedasticity writes is utterly brilliant. Ditto Lilithsea and Clothonono.
Thank you guys for your recommendations!!! I will read all of them...... I am embarrassed to say I have mostly only read the self-insert/romance types of fics🤣🤣
@TheThirdRichard 🥰🥰🥰🥰
Re. the Fëanorians as background characters: Given the way Tolkien chose to write the legends, there are no sources from them, or anyone who felt loyalty to them while writing. What we get is particularly Gondolin and Nargothrond-centric. If the Fëanorians did write their own stories, we don't get to hear much of it, though they may (or may not) get used here and there to explain motivations or reveal private debates.
Lol the roast is real for the rings of power
You think Feanor having seven sons is a lot? Sam Gamgee had 13 children! ( Elanor, Frodo, Rose, Merry, Pippin, Goldilocks, Hamfast, Daisy, Primrose, Bilbo, Ruby, Robin, and Tolman Gamgee.)