Imagine if the wraith hates mushrooms or something. "Merry, what's wrong? You've barely touched your third plate of morels!" "Nay.. I mean, no, my friends, it is just that I... (shudders) wish to *savor* such a... toothsome dish."
Neil Gaiman played with this in Good Omens, where the antichrist imagined his pet as being a cute little dog while the Hellhound is coming, then finding itself to be just a cute little dog rather than a raging monster. Pretty funny stuff.
😉 sometimes I kind of feel like the Stilton cheese of UA-cam, it's a product not everyone's going to like, or even see the point of, but while the market may be small, it is *dedicated* Glad you found me; hope you enjoy the channel!
Your take on the Barrow-Wight is enlightening. I now require a comedic sitcom about an enslaved Elven fëa looking for a new body, and his Mannish Wight sidekick who's just a fun-loving goof who likes to scare people.
I did not realize I needed this until this precise moment but I too can confirm I need it. Bonus points if it's a particularly snobbish Noldo who considers men inferior but now has to rely on them to accomplish anything.
Lol, thank you so much! Researching it was less like going down a rabbit hole and more like falling down a well 😆 Are PhDs in Tolkienian Magic eligible for tenure, do you think?...
Thank you! I commissioned it from the lovely MG Coco: mgcoco.tumblr.com/ Not everyone responds favorably to "hey so we've never met but could you please draw an elaborate scene in which my avatar is high-fiving the Noldor's Most Extra Prince while his sons display varying levels of trauma in the background?" 😅
@@GirlNextGondor Maedros is one of the most tragic figures in the lore. He was just trying to do right by his father and his people, and you can tell he had a good heart that was tormented by the oath.
Wow, what a compilation of necromancy and un-death has seldom been seen in Middle Earth. This really got me in the mood of playing the One Ring rpg again..
I had a dream just this morning about necromancy. It only concerned me and other living people, which confused me because no dead thing was involved. They said “I gotta check your neck” I was like “neck?” Then he said “yes necromancy” then started chanting in Latin. It scerd me
The army of the dead Aragorn commands isn’t from necromancy. In Tolkiens universe oaths aren’t just words they have great power. We see that with both Gollum and the army of the dead. By breaking their oaths they were both punished in kind for breaking them. The reason Aragorn can control and release the army isn’t because he is the king it is because he is the blood of Isildur whom the oath was sworn. Great video though on a topic that very few have dove deep into. Thoroughly enjoyed it
Glad you enjoyed it! I would say oaths are one of the few, possibly the only, thing that seem to affect a person's destiny even after death. They certainly have unique weight.
@@GirlNextGondor yes Tolkien put a huge weight on them in the spiritual realm, they carry far more weight than just the consequences of lost honor, reputation, and trust usually found in stories with breaking an oath. They affect you sometimes for eternity and in magical and spiritual ways. I think it was an awesome idea to add brevity to oaths in his works
One example of unhoused spirits being bound into new forms that I particularly found fascinating were those spirits bound into dragons as illustrated in "The Children of Hurin" where we are told of the evil spirit bound into Glaurung that seems to give him intellect if not life. Interestingly Morgoth also speaks through him to Mablung, which is especially creepy.
The whole 'evil spirits bound into monstrous/animal form' thing is hugely creepy. Dragons, yes, and apparently also the werewolves, the Balrogs, whatever the heck is animating the Watchers of Cirith Ungol.... It's hard to make the call on which of these cases are necromancy vs something else, but regardless, 'bind an evil spirit to it!' is my least favorite of Morgoth's most-commonly-used solutions (to problems no one should have).
You just totally changed my perspective on the Barrow Wight. I assumed it was a low level maiar and/or elf spirit and couldnt possibly be human because of the "rules" of Arda. Now Im not so sure. I thought Merry's outburst about the men of Carn Dum was a result of some kind of residual memory rather than literal possession but maybe I was wrong....wow.This is why I love your channel. No one thinks harder about Middle earth metaphysics, a subject near and dear to my heart.
I was pretty convinced the wights were some kind of maia-adjacent spirit or creature, but as I researched I couldn't help but suspect something mannish was going on. Even the word 'wight' came from a word that meant 'human being'.
This was exactly my reaction to Lexi's take on the Barrow Wights. I have never heard anyone say that Merry was close to being inhabited by the evil spirit of a man. If that is what she meant. I thought Merry had a dream of what was happening to him. I was sure the Wights were just evil spirits that inhabited what bodies they could. But then they had arms that stretched supernaturally long, so who knows?
@@GirlNextGondor I still think your first instinct is right. Making them human spirits in Zombified bodies gives the Witch King way more street cred than he deserves.
While I had always thought that what Merry said was something that happened to a Man, I never thought about the possibility that Merry was being possessed, albeit briefly.
I previously only watched Nerd of the Rings, but her library of deep, well researched, and long videos has earned her a new loyal subscriber! Thank you!
Fascinating stuff, especially your interpretation of what was happening in the Barrow-downs. I assumed the ritual was to turn the hobbits into Barrow-wights as well. I hadn't considered that spirits might want to possess their bodies and switch places with them, desperately trying to escape their endless undead existence. I think that scene just got even creepier!
I just found this channel and I normally consider myself as knowing quite a bit about tolkiens stories but I've only watched 3 videos of yours and already learned a pile of new things I never knew. These videos and your Tolkien knowledge is amazing
The dragon-sickness is a lot like the effect of the dwarven Rings of Power: it inflames greed. This appears that greed is a particular problem for dwarves (imported from Norse and Teutonic myth). Remember Galadriel's blessing on Gimli: his hands would flow with gold but over him gold would have no dominion - a qualifier suggesting that this dominion would otherwise likely be a problem.
@@earlwajenberg Ah, so rather than attacking their resistance directly, the curse basically circumvented it altogether by affecting something adjacent, aka their mental/emotional state?
I always thought that the fate of arda being directly linked to the elves was fascinating. The elves ends when arda ends. Not the men though. That’s a part of the gift of men. They endure after arda is no more.
Finrod's line about death for the Elves being a slow-footed hunter, but one it was impossible to escape has always struck me as very chilling. Poor Elves. No wonder they don't have as much sympathy for Men's short lives as Men seem to think they deserve.
@@GirlNextGondor Perhaps they don’t even believe that men can’t see the spirit-world, as they may not even think to ask if we can’t, just as I never thought to ask if they could before I saw this video lol. It comes to them as naturally as death comes to men.
Seems like senseless cruelty on Eru's part. Elves doomed to suffer for as long as Arda exist (and they all suffer, eventually even in Valinor), and THEN cease to exist. Elves are doubly fucked if this is true. Fuck Eru. But where else would Melkor (and humanity) get his knack for cruelty from? The only good thing is that it is not actually clear that it is actually true. The fear of the Elves are bound to Arda for as long as it exists, while men leave the circles of the world to return to Iluvatar. That the eldar actually just cease to exist with Arda IS treated more as an in-universe theory by the Wise, so it's Not a definite fact that the elder and younger children won't eventually re-united after all, instead of Eru discarding one of them like trash. And of course supposedly Arda IS re-created as Arda Healed. It would be pretty perverse of this Arda Healed contained humans in some form, but the elves were just purged like Morgoth's corrupting influence. Under this circumstances the idea of the dwarves helping Aule to re-build Arda, coming as it does from a much older layer of the mythology would probably be just a illusory belief on part of the dwarves, while in reality Eru is waiting to spring "Surprise suckers! You really thought you had some kind of future post Dagor Dagorath? Well, fuck that, you are just deleted like a faulty piece of software, hahaha!! Arda Healed is for men only!" on them.
as ever you go straight to the heart of the matter, like the very blades of morgul. life and death is the theme which fills the professors works, Elves tempted to gain death, men tempted to fight for immortality, desperately clinging to life whatever the odds. i feel that for tilkien in his religious life understanding of the life corporal and the everlasting life is the most important thing, in LotR and the sillmarillion he does indeed show us many possible fates within the possibilities of life and death inviting us to try to find out why god made his choices for us. I know why i made my choice long ago to subscribe and now to liek. The quality of your work is just so high, thanks GNG and keep up the good work.
Thank you so much, I appreciate it! The question of death, including fates after death, especially the paradox of Men dreading death but finding no rest in the world, and so much of the Elves' "powers" being due to them simply having more time and experience than any Man could hope for, are some of the most foundational themes of Middle-earth and yet often overlooked. There's plenty more to explore here.
Another fantastic one. I'm slowly going through your existing content and it's blowing me away every time. You have such a pleasant speaking voice! In regards to the barrow-wights and their potential nature, I'm actually very curious what you think about what Bombadil sings to expel the wight when he rescues the hobbits. Get out, you old wight! Vanish in the sunlight! Shrivel like the cold mist, like the winds go wailing, Out into the barren lands far beyond the mountains! Come never here again! Leave your barrow empty! Lost and forgotten be, darker than the darkness, Where gates stand for ever shut, till the world is mended. Apart from being fantastic imagery using only simple words, the lines about "the barren lands" and "gates forever shut" are interesting. To me they always evoked the Doors of Night through which Morgoth was thrust, but I'm not sure that's what's being discussed here. Perhaps this is another description of "the nothing that awaits you and your master"?
I know this is more than half a year later, but I have something to say about the "gates stand for ever shut" part. Seeing how the song is structured, the shut gates are referring to the barrow. The barrow should be left empty, lost, forgotten, dark, and with shut gates. As for the "barren lands far beyond the mountains" I have a few ideas, but nothing I could support with any evidence.
Hey Lexi and squad, any thoughts about where the inhabitants of the Dead Marshes fall on the Necromancy Continuum? The bodies there aren't reanimated or possessed and don't seem to exist as ghosts or wraiths, but the "dead" in the marshes definitely seem a little "un"... And all of the folk who meet their end there (plus the corpses that are swallowed up as the marshes expand) - elf, human, evil, good - suffer the same fate. It seems like a bit of an enigma even by Tolkien's wibbly-wobbly magic-system standards.
If I had to guess, I think that Sauron put so much power of dread and domination on the area around his tower during its seven year besiegement that it made an unholy psychic glue trap. The marshes were the site of a particularly violent and wrathful engagement too. I think even the characters would recognize it as an anomaly.
@@GirlNextGondor I think your "psychic glue trap" description is perfect! I sometimes wonder how long it took the Dead Marshes to fade into non-magicness in the same way that everything else did - like, in Fourth Age 294 did the government of Gondor send out a press release stating that it was officially just another marsh and travellers no longer had to worry about terrifying corpses and treacherous lights? Or did folks simply avoid it for so long that eventually the context for why maps named it the Dead Marshes was lost on later generations?
I suspect that Morgoth's curse is identical to the displayed power of the Nine. He put forth his power - in other words, a shard of his massive soul - to unnaturally stretch out a lifespan indefinitely, without actually providing any more life, as it were.
@@GirlNextGondor Indeed, I was scrolling the comments to find the names of the cute cartoony elves at the end I had from right to left: Feanor highfiving Galadriel, maedros the tall, fingolfin, finarfin?, then in the back 2 sons of feanor but which ones they look like twins but maedros looks ashamed? and then fingon, turgon.
Just wanna say that I'm watching all your videos one by one and it is by far the most interesting analysis and telling of Tolkien's fantastic works I've seen on UA-cam. Keep it up, I love your work!
This is absolutely incredible. I have loved the lore of middle earth for 20+ years and this is easily one of the best channels that interprets Tolkien's work
Fantastic video, very well researched! This is one of my favorite topics from the Legendarium... One of my favorite parts of fantasy series with “softer magic systems”, is trying to identify guiding principles (rather than hard rules) for how the world’s magic and metaphysics work :)
You put that really well - I never thought about it in those terms but I think that's why I'm more drawn to 'soft' magic too. You generally don't know for certain what might be possible, and trying to figure that out is very satisfying!
Lexi, this was simply brilliant! My head was spinning so much, I had to rewind several times to make sure I took in all you had to say. Your take on the Barrow Wights is something I have never heard or read before, but the way you explained it took us all on that magical road to get to your conclusion. I still have reservations, but your take 110% possible to be what Tolkien intended us to think. Thanks for the incredible content!!😁👍
Glad you liked it! Death and the afterlife are fascinating topics but also places where the evidence is often vague or confusing. I myself am still cautious about a lot of these claims - I think there's good evidence for, eg, the Barrow-wight theory, but I'd stop short of saying I know for certain it's what Tolkien intended.
@@GirlNextGondor It is still brilliant and original. Tolkien would do something like give us a hint of what Merry truly experienced. He tell us outright because Merry himself could not explain it any better than he did. I like your theory the more I think of it.
Very very well done. 👍 I wish the people involved in the Rings of Power had reached out to the fans, like yourself. The potential for greatness was there. Anyway, more of this please. 😁🙏
Great job, everything from the art to your comprehensive summary of a extensive topic made this a solid video. I had never seen the art of Finrod and Bëor's people, it's beautiful.
It's a particular favorite of mine, it's such an important (and potentially picturesque!) scene but for some reason rarely depicted. The artist for that one is Alystraea; links to her portfolio are in the description. She has a lot of great Tolkien art and was very gracious to allow me to use her work!
Okay I'm just going to sit here and wait for someone to write that fanfiction about our dear hobbit friend actually being possessed and/or possibly trying to chase down the spirit that stole his body. And possibly getting it back by causing him to die in the most ridiculous way imaginable. ;) In all sincerity, though, this was incredibly well thought out. I think I'm going to need to rewatch a time or two if I'm honest as you've given me a lot to think about.
I have a document titled 'someone write this fic' where I save all the bizarre scenarios that come up during research (a surprisingly high percentage involve merry). I think the version I'd prefer is that Merry and Mr. Anonymous Cardolanian come to an agreement ('Okay, you can stay, but no more trying to take over my body!') and in return the shade gives him little boosts of insight or courage when he gets into a tight spot. Glad you enjoyed it, this was such a neat topic and I feel like there's a lot left to ponder 🥰
I'm new here, so forgive me if you've covered this already; your description of the Elves' relationship between their Fea and their Hroa, specifically one line, that they foresake their hroa when it becomes too badly damaged or "non-functional", made me wonder how Tolkein depicts disability among the various children of Iluvatar. We know that there were several prominent elves who lost hands doing various heroic things, and they evidently decided this was still operational enough to stick around in their hroa, but I wonder if there's more to be said about how Tolkein thought about disability overall?
What terrifying fate being turned into a wraith would be. Imagine trying to fight evil in the world only to be consumed by it against your will. Cursed to haunt the world you defended for time unknowing.
the old rankin bass cartoon was so good I wish there was an extended version and animation tech is so good now they could make a very good animated version of the stuff like the war of wrath and the war of the elves and sauron
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it. "Wraithification" made me imagine some device or machine in the basement of Dol Guldur affectionately called the "Wraithifier 3000" and now I can't get the image out of my head.
I have to say that I am no friend of the idea of morgul arrows, for this would be too mighty of a weapon. I understand the fear of the Gondorians more in the sense, that they fear that the enemy might now posses such arrows, since Faramir is suffering like struck by a morgul blade, not that the Nazgul confirmedly posses such darts. Furthermore even then we don´t know whether the beliefe of the Gondorians about the morgul darts are based on reality, or rather made up stories to make sense of battlefield observations they can´t explain otherwise. But as I am already a Spirit in your mighty host, who am I to disagree? ;p
Very true, there's no proof either way. Gondorians are among the more learned men (and the ones with the most direct experience with the devices of Nazgul) so even if there aren't any morgul arrows, the fact that it's even considered a possibility suggests we can't rule it out. I do think that morgul weapons, whatever their form, must be rare and require a good deal of time/effort to make or wield. Otherwise Sauron would be using them all the time 😆
@@GirlNextGondor I would say that despite having the most direct experience, they still forgot that Athelas is the best treatment for morgul inflicted wounds, so them coming up with Nazgul related horror stories like morgul arrows wouldn´t be too far fetched. But be it like it be, I am completley with you about the rareness of such weapons, for otherwise Middle Earth would have been conquered long ago by Saurons legions of wraith turning arrows. XD That would I say if I would still posses the ability to argue against your will. ;p
Thanks for the video, I loved it! If Frodo and Bilbo went to the Undying Lands, I wonder what their deaths (or potential undeaths)were like🤔. Hopefully nothing as horrific as those of the Numenorean invaders.
i heard on another awesome channel (the red door) that they never would have gone to aman, only tol eressëa, because no mortals were allowed in aman. so, gimil wouldn't have been allowed either.
@@jpbjoel I'm with you, I think it would be a peaceful release after receiving healing and honor. I'm almost certain there's a couple of references to it in the letters that I'll have to hunt up.
You are amazing, I can't believe how you can explore so much and so deeply in every video you make, not only I love your videos (specially this one) but I also love Tolkien's work even more thanks to people like you and Stephen
Interesting. Perhaps the binding of souls after death is the practical purpose for Melkor/Sauron worship. Perhaps the worship of the Dark Lord (of your choice) entails giving your soul to said Dark Lord forever. As for the Barrow Wights, when I ask myself, what is the most hateful act to Eru? It would be forcing the dead souls of the Angmarim that are bound to you, into the bodies of their defeated foes. That's how the Witch King gets golf claps from Dol Guldor. That might also be the way to turn Fornost Erain into Deadman's Dyke.
The specter of Morgoth-worship and the implications and penalties thereof is so tantalizing; we get some vague but very significant hints that suggest something very like what you're saying. Also, 'golf claps from Dol Guldur' is a top-tier phrase and one I will try to work into conversation this week. 😅
This is the second video I watch from you, and your in-depth analysis really blew my mind like your first one I watched. Here's a Like and a new subscriber!
@@Enerdhil IDK, eating ghostly popcorn with all the Elf-heroes of yore while we watch Vaire's weaving so we can keep up with current events? The chance to stalk Namo around his own Halls, corner him, and pester him to clarify all the things Tolkien left vague? Sounds like a party to me!
@@GirlNextGondor On the other hand, you explained in this very same video that those in the Halls of Mandos don't engage in any festive activities. So, cancel the popcorn and no harassing the Maiar! You need to be meditating on your Fëanor obsession!
Just found your channel. I was a fan of Middle Earth for a long time but never thought about searching for specific lore for it until recently I got into games about Middle Earth again and wondered what about different aspects we never seen in movies or only mentioned a couple of times in books
Love this! Particularly the comparison between elven fading and humans getting faded by elven rings. I wonder what use Sauron or the Lord of the Nazgûl has of minor wraiths. Interrogation would seem the obvious. And as you point out, there is likely some connection with the barrow-wights. But apparently there was no move to create a terrifying group of wraiths to use like the Dead Men of Dunharrow, which could be very effective. But then, they already have the Nazgûl to terrify enemies, and probably more effectively.
Hello! I really love your video's ❤❤ and I think they are among the top tier of LoTR content! Really delving deep into interesting subjects! Anyway: I have a question that is bugging me already for a very long time, perhaps you have an insight, it is regarding what happens to men when they enter Valinor. Point 1) When a man enters Valinor either their Feä or Hroä collapses, due to the undying nature of Valinor. Point 2) Valinor is made as a resting place for elfes to escape fading. Point 3) Fading happens because Melkor unleashed his power into the very earth itself. Which brings me to my question: it seems to me that if Melkor hadn't done that and Arda would have been unmarred, the arrival of men would not have been possible, for Arda would have (and this is kind of an assumption) looked more like Valinor, in perfect bliss, which would have made the lifes of men rather horrid. Assuming that in the above arguments are no errors (which there very well might be), it does remind me of a story of Tolkien between Eru and Ulmo, to which Ulmo complains that everything they to is for nothing, but than Eru saying that the cold Melkor created contributes to the formation of something as beautifull as a snowflake. Also linking to the statement from Eru to Melkor 'everything you do will be for the theme of Arda, wether you percieve it as such or not (parafrased) So ultimatly, I feel Melkors marring of Arda made way for mankind to arrive. But it is all speculative and I would LOVE to hear your thougts on it haha❤
Eru gave the Gift of Men only after it became clear that Melkor was going to go after them. Presumably the original plan did not require mortals to be able to die and so escape Morgoth's corruption.
A great video. Only remarks I have is that the concept of the seen and unseen worlds, the nazgul's bodies had basically faded, but frodo was able to see them in the unseen world, when he had put the ring on, a pretty good illustration of this can be seen in the Peter Jackson movies.
You have a very interesting angle on the Legendarium! Quite academic, and I like that! This is the first of your videos that I've seen, and it won't be my last!! Thanks for the hard work!!
I feel like Sauron and his ring could also be described in the vague high fantasy sense of necromancy, being that it's essentially a Lich and their phylactery. He is taking his soul, or part of it, and housing it within a physical form, though not a living one as we understand it. This connection is maintained while he has the ring on his person, then when it's severed (along with his finger) he is broken, and his primary physical form is laid waste to, as it had been in Numenor and as Luthien threatened to do. Being "born" an already incorporeal spirit it's hard to label it directly as undeath, but with the moving of an "essence" of someone from different houses, keeping them within a certain plane of existence, it does feel like Sauron is trying to cheat death, so just as he and Morgoth tricked men into fearing death to the point they suffered a far worse fate, so did they fall for their own propaganda and end up suffering an utter withering of their beings, cast out into the void. I feel like Sauron's spirit definitely had to be damaged in the same way that the Nazgul were in trying to perpetuate their lives, only in a reverse. It's a complicated line of thought but I like it.
Sauron's chief servants, the Nazghul, were men corrupted by the Nine rings. Given by Sauron to his 'trusted' servants, these men were turned into Wraiths. Though the Dwarves were given 7 rings, they had a different effect. Enflaming the desires of Dwarves, gold & especially Mithril Silver! Though not discussed in Tolkien's writings, Sauron could have created more Wraiths using the captured Dwarven rings given to men. (As Aule made the Dwarven race, they were made a tougher constitution!)
Hi new subscriber here. This is a really great in-depth look at these concepts. I remember barely being able to conceptualize what was going on with the hobbits and barrow wights as a young teenager when I first read those passages. I vaguely remember thinking the barrows are trying to scare them from away from falling into service of the shadow (Sauron and his servants) by showing them horrors in nightmares but now I understand that may have been an unintended consequence of the wights actually trying to steal new bodies for their spirits.
I also think the idea of unhoused spirits finding a bodies is in alignment with the real world idea of the vampire which is a unrestful dead Spirit which possesses its own body for the purpose of remaining in the physical world and feeding
It is interesting that no one can go in or out of Mandos' halls without his permission. The influences are obvious, but I wonder if Tolkein ever tried out an Orpheus/Eurydice story with Beren and Luthien and abandoned it.
I could've sworn that Oathbreaker's broke their Oath with some later ruler of Gondor who followed Isildur, but movies streamlined to reduce number of names. But looks like I was wrong. Now I'm left wondering what other piece of legendarium I might be mistaking it. lol
I'm guessing when tolkien thought to have elves be able to reconstruct their bodies was pretty early because I feel like that's why feanor burnt to ash on his own because all that he had caused with his oath/kin slaying he was never to return to a physical body
@@GirlNextGondor I've only recently (last 2 years or so) been getting into this stuff and between you, MOTW, NOTR, and a few other channels I feel like I am running out of brain storage space but I love it thank you - rather, I've been getting into the REAL lore in the last 2 years. I first read / watched the hobbit the old rankin bass cartoon like once a day when I was a kid back in the 80's and my mom had a copy of the LOTR trilogy books
Ooooh I've never seen those quotes about Men in Aman before, they're so interesting! Good thing I just got Morgoth's Ring so I can dive in for myself! :D
One of us! One of us! 😆 Good luck with Morgoth's Ring, it's a very rewarding experience (and, as you've probably noticed, it's one of the most heavily cited 'extracanonical' sources on UA-cam). Myths Transformed is my favorite section, such a trip (although I'm also very fond of Finwe being sassy to the Valar during the remarriage debate).
Very well put together. Tolkien can be a bit dry for me personally but you evoke interested in the way you put your videos together. I look forward to watching the rest ofnyour content.
Yes, he and his brother Hilary were raised in part by Fr Francis Morgan after their mother was cut off financially by her Anglican relatives and passed away from what was most likely diabetes.
Really enjoyable essay~ I had much fun listening to it and You did remind me many things not to mention I've learned some new ones considering themes from appendices.
26:13 I’m not so sure that would be the case… unlikely as it is, piercing a heart doesn’t guarantee its failure: this is true with gunshots, and they’re far more damaging than an arguably small blade. Also, since the Ringwraiths themselves are not exactly dead, I think it’s wrong to assume death to be a necessary step for the wraithfication to occur. I think it’s far more likely that the blade has to reach the heart for the enchantment to work, especially so if we keep in mind that the heart is commonly seen as the house of our soul. Though Tolkien may not have stated this explicitly, he could’ve very well been influenced by such traditions
Yup, it's definitely hypothesis on my part rather than a verifiable claim 😅 always possible that I took it too far.... Regarding the significance of the *heart*, I am torn between its fairy-story/mythic/poetic value, which (as you noted) Tolkien must have been sensitive to, and his claim elsewhere that Elves did not confuse or equate the physical organ with the 'seat of emotions,' and when they say things like 'my heart tells me' it's their best attempt at translating a totally distinct concept/term. It's often the case that a perfectly-respectable use of fairy-story logic runs afoul of some of the later, more scholastic essays, so I'd say it's valid to just accept that maybe there *was* something mystical about the heart in this case after all.
The idea of a wraith getting embodied in a hobbit's boddy is both creepy and pretty damn hilarious. "Why am I so short?"
Imagine if the wraith hates mushrooms or something. "Merry, what's wrong? You've barely touched your third plate of morels!" "Nay.. I mean, no, my friends, it is just that I... (shudders) wish to *savor* such a... toothsome dish."
😂
@@GirlNextGondor "How do you do, fellow hobbits?"
Neil Gaiman played with this in Good Omens, where the antichrist imagined his pet as being a cute little dog while the Hellhound is coming, then finding itself to be just a cute little dog rather than a raging monster. Pretty funny stuff.
Sounds like Chucky
We also need to consider the watchers near the orc tower where Frodo was held.
Yes! These seem so intriguing to me. Is there any story I can find that expands that faint reference in TRotK?
The idea of the trapped Numenoreans in Valinor coming back in the Dagor Dagoroth to serve Morgoth as basically a feral army of beasts is super cool.
They will serve the forces of Good.
My first video on your channel, and as soon as I heard the phrase "we don't know much about the metaphysics of Dwarves" I knew I had found my people!
😉 sometimes I kind of feel like the Stilton cheese of UA-cam, it's a product not everyone's going to like, or even see the point of, but while the market may be small, it is *dedicated*
Glad you found me; hope you enjoy the channel!
Your take on the Barrow-Wight is enlightening.
I now require a comedic sitcom about an enslaved Elven fëa looking for a new body, and his Mannish Wight sidekick who's just a fun-loving goof who likes to scare people.
i also need this
I did not realize I needed this until this precise moment but I too can confirm I need it.
Bonus points if it's a particularly snobbish Noldo who considers men inferior but now has to rely on them to accomplish anything.
@@GirlNextGondor Tolkien's Pinky and the Brain
Yes. How about a musical to boot? Maybe a Middle Earth Rocky Horror Picture Show.🤔
Someone compose the theme song pls
You have to hand it to GNG - only she can breathe new life into a previously dead topic!
I see what you did there. 💀
@@GirlNextGondor hahahha
He's here all week, folks! Enjoy the pepper steak!
She really can!!
Go to your room.
I think you deserve a Ph.D. In Tolkienian Magic by now. This is one of your best yet!
Lol, thank you so much! Researching it was less like going down a rabbit hole and more like falling down a well 😆
Are PhDs in Tolkienian Magic eligible for tenure, do you think?...
The scene at the end being your character high-fiving feanor at the burning of the ships while maedros looks on horrified was awesome.
Thank you! I commissioned it from the lovely MG Coco: mgcoco.tumblr.com/
Not everyone responds favorably to "hey so we've never met but could you please draw an elaborate scene in which my avatar is high-fiving the Noldor's Most Extra Prince while his sons display varying levels of trauma in the background?" 😅
@@GirlNextGondor Maedros is one of the most tragic figures in the lore. He was just trying to do right by his father and his people, and you can tell he had a good heart that was tormented by the oath.
Wow, what a compilation of necromancy and un-death has seldom been seen in Middle Earth. This really got me in the mood of playing the One Ring rpg again..
I had a dream just this morning about necromancy. It only concerned me and other living people, which confused me because no dead thing was involved. They said “I gotta check your neck” I was like “neck?” Then he said “yes necromancy” then started chanting in Latin. It scerd me
When people start chanting in Latin that's usually a good time to wake up 🤣
That's a lot better than MY necromancy dream. Which involved a lot of dead, a lot of blood, and the asthestics of 300. It was really weird.
The army of the dead Aragorn commands isn’t from necromancy. In Tolkiens universe oaths aren’t just words they have great power. We see that with both Gollum and the army of the dead. By breaking their oaths they were both punished in kind for breaking them. The reason Aragorn can control and release the army isn’t because he is the king it is because he is the blood of Isildur whom the oath was sworn. Great video though on a topic that very few have dove deep into. Thoroughly enjoyed it
Glad you enjoyed it! I would say oaths are one of the few, possibly the only, thing that seem to affect a person's destiny even after death. They certainly have unique weight.
@@GirlNextGondor yes Tolkien put a huge weight on them in the spiritual realm, they carry far more weight than just the consequences of lost honor, reputation, and trust usually found in stories with breaking an oath. They affect you sometimes for eternity and in magical and spiritual ways. I think it was an awesome idea to add brevity to oaths in his works
One example of unhoused spirits being bound into new forms that I particularly found fascinating were those spirits bound into dragons as illustrated in "The Children of Hurin" where we are told of the evil spirit bound into Glaurung that seems to give him intellect if not life. Interestingly Morgoth also speaks through him to Mablung, which is especially creepy.
The whole 'evil spirits bound into monstrous/animal form' thing is hugely creepy. Dragons, yes, and apparently also the werewolves, the Balrogs, whatever the heck is animating the Watchers of Cirith Ungol.... It's hard to make the call on which of these cases are necromancy vs something else, but regardless, 'bind an evil spirit to it!' is my least favorite of Morgoth's most-commonly-used solutions (to problems no one should have).
You just totally changed my perspective on the Barrow Wight. I assumed it was a low level maiar and/or elf spirit and couldnt possibly be human because of the "rules" of Arda. Now Im not so sure. I thought Merry's outburst about the men of Carn Dum was a result of some kind of residual memory rather than literal possession but maybe I was wrong....wow.This is why I love your channel. No one thinks harder about Middle earth metaphysics, a subject near and dear to my heart.
I was pretty convinced the wights were some kind of maia-adjacent spirit or creature, but as I researched I couldn't help but suspect something mannish was going on. Even the word 'wight' came from a word that meant 'human being'.
This was exactly my reaction to Lexi's take on the Barrow Wights. I have never heard anyone say that Merry was close to being inhabited by the evil spirit of a man. If that is what she meant. I thought Merry had a dream of what was happening to him. I was sure the Wights were just evil spirits that inhabited what bodies they could. But then they had arms that stretched supernaturally long, so who knows?
@@GirlNextGondor
I still think your first instinct is right. Making them human spirits in Zombified bodies gives the Witch King way more street cred than he deserves.
While I had always thought that what Merry said was something that happened to a Man, I never thought about the possibility that Merry was being possessed, albeit briefly.
@@istari0 Interestingly, that was my first thought when I read it. But I didn't know that much about the metaphysics of Arda back then.
I previously only watched Nerd of the Rings, but her library of deep, well researched, and long videos has earned her a new loyal subscriber! Thank you!
I'm just going to go ahead coin the term Ar-Pharazombie right now.
Yes. The Ar-Pharazombies are practicing their "Thriller" dance performance. It is scheduled to be the opening performance of the Dagor Dagorath 🧟🤪
What can I say? Meneltarma is a bitch.
@@LeSerpentBlanc
You mean Taniquetil?
@@Enerdhil thanks for making me smile!
@@Enerdhil thanks for making me smile!
Fascinating stuff, especially your interpretation of what was happening in the Barrow-downs. I assumed the ritual was to turn the hobbits into Barrow-wights as well. I hadn't considered that spirits might want to possess their bodies and switch places with them, desperately trying to escape their endless undead existence. I think that scene just got even creepier!
I just found this channel and I normally consider myself as knowing quite a bit about tolkiens stories but I've only watched 3 videos of yours and already learned a pile of new things I never knew. These videos and your Tolkien knowledge is amazing
Must have been one hell of a curse on Smaug's horde then, to have affected the Dwarven kings so badly if they're quite resistant to certain magics.
The dragon-sickness is a lot like the effect of the dwarven Rings of Power: it inflames greed. This appears that greed is a particular problem for dwarves (imported from Norse and Teutonic myth). Remember Galadriel's blessing on Gimli: his hands would flow with gold but over him gold would have no dominion - a qualifier suggesting that this dominion would otherwise likely be a problem.
@@earlwajenberg Ah, so rather than attacking their resistance directly, the curse basically circumvented it altogether by affecting something adjacent, aka their mental/emotional state?
I always thought that the fate of arda being directly linked to the elves was fascinating. The elves ends when arda ends. Not the men though. That’s a part of the gift of men. They endure after arda is no more.
Finrod's line about death for the Elves being a slow-footed hunter, but one it was impossible to escape has always struck me as very chilling. Poor Elves. No wonder they don't have as much sympathy for Men's short lives as Men seem to think they deserve.
@@GirlNextGondor Perhaps they don’t even believe that men can’t see the spirit-world, as they may not even think to ask if we can’t, just as I never thought to ask if they could before I saw this video lol. It comes to them as naturally as death comes to men.
@@GirlNextGondor “Death is their fate, the gift of Ilúvatar, which as Time wears even the Powers shall envy.”
Seems like senseless cruelty on Eru's part.
Elves doomed to suffer for as long as Arda exist (and they all suffer, eventually even in Valinor), and THEN cease to exist.
Elves are doubly fucked if this is true.
Fuck Eru.
But where else would Melkor (and humanity) get his knack for cruelty from?
The only good thing is that it is not actually clear that it is actually true.
The fear of the Elves are bound to Arda for as long as it exists, while men leave the circles of the world to return to Iluvatar.
That the eldar actually just cease to exist with Arda IS treated more as an in-universe theory by the Wise, so it's Not a definite fact that the elder and younger children won't eventually re-united after all, instead of Eru discarding one of them like trash.
And of course supposedly Arda IS re-created as Arda Healed.
It would be pretty perverse of this Arda Healed contained humans in some form, but the elves were just purged like Morgoth's corrupting influence.
Under this circumstances the idea of the dwarves helping Aule to re-build Arda, coming as it does from a much older layer of the mythology would probably be just a illusory belief on part of the dwarves, while in reality Eru is waiting to spring "Surprise suckers! You really thought you had some kind of future post Dagor Dagorath? Well, fuck that, you are just deleted like a faulty piece of software, hahaha!! Arda Healed is for men only!" on them.
as ever you go straight to the heart of the matter, like the very blades of morgul. life and death is the theme which fills the professors works, Elves tempted to gain death, men tempted to fight for immortality, desperately clinging to life whatever the odds. i feel that for tilkien in his religious life understanding of the life corporal and the everlasting life is the most important thing, in LotR and the sillmarillion he does indeed show us many possible fates within the possibilities of life and death inviting us to try to find out why god made his choices for us. I know why i made my choice long ago to subscribe and now to liek. The quality of your work is just so high, thanks GNG and keep up the good work.
Thank you so much, I appreciate it!
The question of death, including fates after death, especially the paradox of Men dreading death but finding no rest in the world, and so much of the Elves' "powers" being due to them simply having more time and experience than any Man could hope for, are some of the most foundational themes of Middle-earth and yet often overlooked. There's plenty more to explore here.
So much to process! Thank you for explaining a complex topic.
Glad it was helpful!
Another fantastic one. I'm slowly going through your existing content and it's blowing me away every time. You have such a pleasant speaking voice!
In regards to the barrow-wights and their potential nature, I'm actually very curious what you think about what Bombadil sings to expel the wight when he rescues the hobbits.
Get out, you old wight! Vanish in the sunlight!
Shrivel like the cold mist, like the winds go wailing,
Out into the barren lands far beyond the mountains!
Come never here again! Leave your barrow empty!
Lost and forgotten be, darker than the darkness,
Where gates stand for ever shut, till the world is mended.
Apart from being fantastic imagery using only simple words, the lines about "the barren lands" and "gates forever shut" are interesting. To me they always evoked the Doors of Night through which Morgoth was thrust, but I'm not sure that's what's being discussed here. Perhaps this is another description of "the nothing that awaits you and your master"?
I know this is more than half a year later, but I have something to say about the "gates stand for ever shut" part. Seeing how the song is structured, the shut gates are referring to the barrow. The barrow should be left empty, lost, forgotten, dark, and with shut gates.
As for the "barren lands far beyond the mountains" I have a few ideas, but nothing I could support with any evidence.
Hey Lexi and squad, any thoughts about where the inhabitants of the Dead Marshes fall on the Necromancy Continuum? The bodies there aren't reanimated or possessed and don't seem to exist as ghosts or wraiths, but the "dead" in the marshes definitely seem a little "un"... And all of the folk who meet their end there (plus the corpses that are swallowed up as the marshes expand) - elf, human, evil, good - suffer the same fate. It seems like a bit of an enigma even by Tolkien's wibbly-wobbly magic-system standards.
If I had to guess, I think that Sauron put so much power of dread and domination on the area around his tower during its seven year besiegement that it made an unholy psychic glue trap. The marshes were the site of a particularly violent and wrathful engagement too. I think even the characters would recognize it as an anomaly.
@@GirlNextGondor I think your "psychic glue trap" description is perfect! I sometimes wonder how long it took the Dead Marshes to fade into non-magicness in the same way that everything else did - like, in Fourth Age 294 did the government of Gondor send out a press release stating that it was officially just another marsh and travellers no longer had to worry about terrifying corpses and treacherous lights? Or did folks simply avoid it for so long that eventually the context for why maps named it the Dead Marshes was lost on later generations?
Are you saying their fëar are still in their hroar? Or are you just referring to how well the hroar are preserved?
Maybe the water contains high amounts of formaldehyde.🤔
Psychic Glue Trap is going to be my next band’s name :)
I suspect that Morgoth's curse is identical to the displayed power of the Nine. He put forth his power - in other words, a shard of his massive soul - to unnaturally stretch out a lifespan indefinitely, without actually providing any more life, as it were.
Gorgeous artwork. Well chosen.
Thank you, there were a lot of lovely spooky pieces out there!
@@GirlNextGondor there really are . In a good way.
@@GirlNextGondor Indeed, I was scrolling the comments to find the names of the cute cartoony elves at the end I had from right to left: Feanor highfiving Galadriel, maedros the tall, fingolfin, finarfin?, then in the back 2 sons of feanor but which ones they look like twins but maedros looks ashamed? and then fingon, turgon.
Honestly you're my favourite person. This is so brilliant, and just as insightful as all your content always is.
Aw 😊 thank you! So glad you liked it, I love the dark and spooky stuff.
Whoa. I wasn’t about to watch this until I heard how lovely her voice is
Truly a modern elf
Just wanna say that I'm watching all your videos one by one and it is by far the most interesting analysis and telling of Tolkien's fantastic works I've seen on UA-cam. Keep it up, I love your work!
Wow, awesome vid! I love finding new high quality content makers. Subbed.
Excellent! Yes, I've wondered about this myself after reading.
Excellent. Your research appears exhaustive. Thanks....
This is absolutely incredible. I have loved the lore of middle earth for 20+ years and this is easily one of the best channels that interprets Tolkien's work
Thanks lexi
Fantastic video, very well researched! This is one of my favorite topics from the Legendarium... One of my favorite parts of fantasy series with “softer magic systems”, is trying to identify guiding principles (rather than hard rules) for how the world’s magic and metaphysics work :)
You put that really well - I never thought about it in those terms but I think that's why I'm more drawn to 'soft' magic too. You generally don't know for certain what might be possible, and trying to figure that out is very satisfying!
Lexi, this was simply brilliant! My head was spinning so much, I had to rewind several times to make sure I took in all you had to say. Your take on the Barrow Wights is something I have never heard or read before, but the way you explained it took us all on that magical road to get to your conclusion. I still have reservations, but your take 110% possible to be what Tolkien intended us to think. Thanks for the incredible content!!😁👍
Glad you liked it! Death and the afterlife are fascinating topics but also places where the evidence is often vague or confusing. I myself am still cautious about a lot of these claims - I think there's good evidence for, eg, the Barrow-wight theory, but I'd stop short of saying I know for certain it's what Tolkien intended.
@@GirlNextGondor
It is still brilliant and original. Tolkien would do something like give us a hint of what Merry truly experienced. He tell us outright because Merry himself could not explain it any better than he did. I like your theory the more I think of it.
@@GirlNextGondor just found this channel. Love it. Amazing work.
yoooo I thought this series was finished. Awesome!
We still have like 6 different flavors of magic to go! Every time I revisit my planned videos I have to add new categories 😅
this is a very insightful commentary. The kind that is lacking from more established channels. Thanks!!!
Topics of your videos are so deep and interesting, waiting for more ❤️
I was skeptical of another Tolkien channel (what has not already been said?), but my word this is very well researched and presented.
New sub!
Thanks for giving me a chance! Glad you enjoyed! 🥰
Thank you. It was a delight to listen to you like allways
🥰
Very well researched videos backed up by the writing, love it. Also the fanart is the icing on the cake.
Very very well done. 👍
I wish the people involved in the Rings of Power had reached out to the fans, like yourself.
The potential for greatness was there.
Anyway, more of this please. 😁🙏
Girl I’m impressed by your lore wisdom & crystal clear analysis ❤️❤️🍀🍀♥️♥️
Thank you! 🥰
wow, this was really awesome.
love the spin you give to that subject and the effort you put it is really felt.
thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it! 🥰
Oh GNG! I've missed you. Fabulous topic and video!
Woohoo! I've been so excited for this one. 👍
Such a fun one to do!
Just found this channel and I like it! Liked and subscribed! Good luck moving forward with your content.
Great job, everything from the art to your comprehensive summary of a extensive topic made this a solid video. I had never seen the art of Finrod and Bëor's people, it's beautiful.
It's a particular favorite of mine, it's such an important (and potentially picturesque!) scene but for some reason rarely depicted. The artist for that one is Alystraea; links to her portfolio are in the description. She has a lot of great Tolkien art and was very gracious to allow me to use her work!
Wow!!! This was literally my first video of GNG and all I can say is I'm so freaking happy to find a new channel to binge all of!
Okay I'm just going to sit here and wait for someone to write that fanfiction about our dear hobbit friend actually being possessed and/or possibly trying to chase down the spirit that stole his body. And possibly getting it back by causing him to die in the most ridiculous way imaginable. ;) In all sincerity, though, this was incredibly well thought out. I think I'm going to need to rewatch a time or two if I'm honest as you've given me a lot to think about.
I have a document titled 'someone write this fic' where I save all the bizarre scenarios that come up during research (a surprisingly high percentage involve merry). I think the version I'd prefer is that Merry and Mr. Anonymous Cardolanian come to an agreement ('Okay, you can stay, but no more trying to take over my body!') and in return the shade gives him little boosts of insight or courage when he gets into a tight spot.
Glad you enjoyed it, this was such a neat topic and I feel like there's a lot left to ponder 🥰
@@GirlNextGondor OH now that's just not fair because I completely want that fir now!
@@reflectiverambling1148 It's free for the taking, anyone looking for plot bunnies to adopt should hmu because these suckers breed *fast* 😅
I'm new here, so forgive me if you've covered this already; your description of the Elves' relationship between their Fea and their Hroa, specifically one line, that they foresake their hroa when it becomes too badly damaged or "non-functional", made me wonder how Tolkein depicts disability among the various children of Iluvatar. We know that there were several prominent elves who lost hands doing various heroic things, and they evidently decided this was still operational enough to stick around in their hroa, but I wonder if there's more to be said about how Tolkein thought about disability overall?
Just discovered your content. THOROUGHLY enjoy the channel name and this video (first one I've watched)!
Welcome to the lore moshpit, and I'm so glad you enjoyed it! 😊
What terrifying fate being turned into a wraith would be. Imagine trying to fight evil in the world only to be consumed by it against your will. Cursed to haunt the world you defended for time unknowing.
Extraordinarily well researched, and illustrated. You deserve way more subs. You now have mine 👍.
the old rankin bass cartoon was so good I wish there was an extended version and animation tech is so good now they could make a very good animated version of the stuff like the war of wrath and the war of the elves and sauron
I'd love to see more Tolkien animation.
"Wraithification". Nice coinage! I appreciate your insights.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it.
"Wraithification" made me imagine some device or machine in the basement of Dol Guldur affectionately called the "Wraithifier 3000" and now I can't get the image out of my head.
That explains the orcs! Morgoth must've been excited when the Orcifier1000 was delivered to Angband
I have to say that I am no friend of the idea of morgul arrows, for this would be too mighty of a weapon. I understand the fear of the Gondorians more in the sense, that they fear that the enemy might now posses such arrows, since Faramir is suffering like struck by a morgul blade, not that the Nazgul confirmedly posses such darts. Furthermore even then we don´t know whether the beliefe of the Gondorians about the morgul darts are based on reality, or rather made up stories to make sense of battlefield observations they can´t explain otherwise.
But as I am already a Spirit in your mighty host, who am I to disagree? ;p
Very true, there's no proof either way. Gondorians are among the more learned men (and the ones with the most direct experience with the devices of Nazgul) so even if there aren't any morgul arrows, the fact that it's even considered a possibility suggests we can't rule it out. I do think that morgul weapons, whatever their form, must be rare and require a good deal of time/effort to make or wield. Otherwise Sauron would be using them all the time 😆
@@GirlNextGondor I would say that despite having the most direct experience, they still forgot that Athelas is the best treatment for morgul inflicted wounds, so them coming up with Nazgul related horror stories like morgul arrows wouldn´t be too far fetched. But be it like it be, I am completley with you about the rareness of such weapons, for otherwise Middle Earth would have been conquered long ago by Saurons legions of wraith turning arrows. XD
That would I say if I would still posses the ability to argue against your will. ;p
Excellent video. We'll researched, well written, we'll delivered.
Thank you very much!
Thanks for the video, I loved it!
If Frodo and Bilbo went to the Undying Lands, I wonder what their deaths (or potential undeaths)were like🤔. Hopefully nothing as horrific as those of the Numenorean invaders.
i heard on another awesome channel (the red door) that they never would have gone to aman, only tol eressëa, because no mortals were allowed in aman. so, gimil wouldn't have been allowed either.
I tend to hope it would be like Aragorn’s. He had the most dignified death in the legendarium.
@@jpbjoel I'm with you, I think it would be a peaceful release after receiving healing and honor. I'm almost certain there's a couple of references to it in the letters that I'll have to hunt up.
You are amazing, I can't believe how you can explore so much and so deeply in every video you make, not only I love your videos (specially this one) but I also love Tolkien's work even more thanks to people like you and Stephen
Thank you so much, I love hearing that videos like this one can increase people's appreciation and enjoyment of Tolkien!
@@GirlNextGondor You deserve it❤️
Way to make the Barrow-wights even creepier than they already were! Excellent work on this one!
Thank you! I never pass up the chance to make a dark topic even darker 😅
I loved your commentary…new sub…
Welcome aboard, I'm so glad you liked it!
Interesting. Perhaps the binding of souls after death is the practical purpose for Melkor/Sauron worship. Perhaps the worship of the Dark Lord (of your choice) entails giving your soul to said Dark Lord forever. As for the Barrow Wights, when I ask myself, what is the most hateful act to Eru? It would be forcing the dead souls of the Angmarim that are bound to you, into the bodies of their defeated foes. That's how the Witch King gets golf claps from Dol Guldor. That might also be the way to turn Fornost Erain into Deadman's Dyke.
The specter of Morgoth-worship and the implications and penalties thereof is so tantalizing; we get some vague but very significant hints that suggest something very like what you're saying. Also, 'golf claps from Dol Guldur' is a top-tier phrase and one I will try to work into conversation this week. 😅
This is the second video I watch from you, and your in-depth analysis really blew my mind like your first one I watched. Here's a Like and a new subscriber!
I’m not normally glued to my screen but I was with this topic as it was extremely interesting! I can only hope to achieve thread necromancy…
Sauron managed to find a rhyme for "disco dancer", gotta hand it to him.
Happy Friday it’s a Lexi video
I love your video!
Thank you! ☺
That was simply outstanding. Well done.
The beauty of Tolkien is that he is entishly thorough
This approach to subjects I thought I knew something about is definitely worth subscribing the channel. Brilliant work here.
Amazing video. Very detailed, very informative.
I watched your video; thumbs up! It's been decades since I read the books.
Omg, the picture of you high-fiving Fëanor at the burning of the ships is hilarious.
Yes. That gets Lexi an extra AGE in Mandos.🤪
@@Enerdhil IDK, eating ghostly popcorn with all the Elf-heroes of yore while we watch Vaire's weaving so we can keep up with current events? The chance to stalk Namo around his own Halls, corner him, and pester him to clarify all the things Tolkien left vague? Sounds like a party to me!
@@GirlNextGondor
😆🤣😂🤣😆
I can't breathe because I'm laughing so hard! 😆🤣😂🤣😆
@@GirlNextGondor On the other hand, you explained in this very same video that those in the Halls of Mandos don't engage in any festive activities. So, cancel the popcorn and no harassing the Maiar! You need to be meditating on your Fëanor obsession!
This is an incredible video!! Thank you so much.
Thank you, so glad you liked it!
Wow, excellent theory of death in middle-earth! Subscribed.
Thank you! Welcome aboard!
Just found your channel. I was a fan of Middle Earth for a long time but never thought about searching for specific lore for it until recently I got into games about Middle Earth again and wondered what about different aspects we never seen in movies or only mentioned a couple of times in books
Love this! Particularly the comparison between elven fading and humans getting faded by elven rings.
I wonder what use Sauron or the Lord of the Nazgûl has of minor wraiths. Interrogation would seem the obvious. And as you point out, there is likely some connection with the barrow-wights. But apparently there was no move to create a terrifying group of wraiths to use like the Dead Men of Dunharrow, which could be very effective. But then, they already have the Nazgûl to terrify enemies, and probably more effectively.
Hello! I really love your video's ❤❤ and I think they are among the top tier of LoTR content! Really delving deep into interesting subjects! Anyway: I have a question that is bugging me already for a very long time, perhaps you have an insight, it is regarding what happens to men when they enter Valinor.
Point 1) When a man enters Valinor either their Feä or Hroä collapses, due to the undying nature of Valinor.
Point 2) Valinor is made as a resting place for elfes to escape fading.
Point 3) Fading happens because Melkor unleashed his power into the very earth itself.
Which brings me to my question: it seems to me that if Melkor hadn't done that and Arda would have been unmarred, the arrival of men would not have been possible, for Arda would have (and this is kind of an assumption) looked more like Valinor, in perfect bliss, which would have made the lifes of men rather horrid.
Assuming that in the above arguments are no errors (which there very well might be), it does remind me of a story of Tolkien between Eru and Ulmo, to which Ulmo complains that everything they to is for nothing, but than Eru saying that the cold Melkor created contributes to the formation of something as beautifull as a snowflake. Also linking to the statement from Eru to Melkor 'everything you do will be for the theme of Arda, wether you percieve it as such or not (parafrased)
So ultimatly, I feel Melkors marring of Arda made way for mankind to arrive.
But it is all speculative and I would LOVE to hear your thougts on it haha❤
Eru gave the Gift of Men only after it became clear that Melkor was going to go after them. Presumably the original plan did not require mortals to be able to die and so escape Morgoth's corruption.
A great video. Only remarks I have is that the concept of the seen and unseen worlds, the nazgul's bodies had basically faded, but frodo was able to see them in the unseen world, when he had put the ring on, a pretty good illustration of this can be seen in the Peter Jackson movies.
You have a very interesting angle on the Legendarium! Quite academic, and I like that! This is the first of your videos that I've seen, and it won't be my last!! Thanks for the hard work!!
We in my collective collection of friends, Frown on Necromancy.
I feel like Sauron and his ring could also be described in the vague high fantasy sense of necromancy, being that it's essentially a Lich and their phylactery. He is taking his soul, or part of it, and housing it within a physical form, though not a living one as we understand it. This connection is maintained while he has the ring on his person, then when it's severed (along with his finger) he is broken, and his primary physical form is laid waste to, as it had been in Numenor and as Luthien threatened to do. Being "born" an already incorporeal spirit it's hard to label it directly as undeath, but with the moving of an "essence" of someone from different houses, keeping them within a certain plane of existence, it does feel like Sauron is trying to cheat death, so just as he and Morgoth tricked men into fearing death to the point they suffered a far worse fate, so did they fall for their own propaganda and end up suffering an utter withering of their beings, cast out into the void. I feel like Sauron's spirit definitely had to be damaged in the same way that the Nazgul were in trying to perpetuate their lives, only in a reverse. It's a complicated line of thought but I like it.
Okay that has got to be one of the best like and subscribe outros I've ever heard.
this makes sense what the witch king is doing in the Angmar campaign ( I know is not canon but the devs had a good grip over the lore)
The name "Barrow-downs" still creeps me out
Sauron's chief servants, the Nazghul, were men corrupted by the Nine rings. Given by Sauron to his 'trusted' servants, these men were turned into Wraiths. Though the Dwarves were given 7 rings, they had a different effect. Enflaming the desires of Dwarves, gold & especially Mithril Silver! Though not discussed in Tolkien's writings, Sauron could have created more Wraiths using the captured Dwarven rings given to men. (As Aule made the Dwarven race, they were made a tougher constitution!)
Hi new subscriber here. This is a really great in-depth look at these concepts. I remember barely being able to conceptualize what was going on with the hobbits and barrow wights as a young teenager when I first read those passages. I vaguely remember thinking the barrows are trying to scare them from away from falling into service of the shadow (Sauron and his servants) by showing them horrors in nightmares but now I understand that may have been an unintended consequence of the wights actually trying to steal new bodies for their spirits.
I also think the idea of unhoused spirits finding a bodies is in alignment with the real world idea of the vampire which is a unrestful dead Spirit which possesses its own body for the purpose of remaining in the physical world and feeding
It is interesting that no one can go in or out of Mandos' halls without his permission. The influences are obvious, but I wonder if Tolkein ever tried out an Orpheus/Eurydice story with Beren and Luthien and abandoned it.
I could've sworn that Oathbreaker's broke their Oath with some later ruler of Gondor who followed Isildur, but movies streamlined to reduce number of names. But looks like I was wrong.
Now I'm left wondering what other piece of legendarium I might be mistaking it. lol
I'm guessing when tolkien thought to have elves be able to reconstruct their bodies was pretty early because I feel like that's why feanor burnt to ash on his own because all that he had caused with his oath/kin slaying he was never to return to a physical body
The spirit of the man in Merry who speaks of the spear in his heart, seems to be a good person - not planning anything evil.
outstanding stuff!
Thank you!
@@GirlNextGondor I've only recently (last 2 years or so) been getting into this stuff and between you, MOTW, NOTR, and a few other channels I feel like I am running out of brain storage space but I love it thank you - rather, I've been getting into the REAL lore in the last 2 years. I first read / watched the hobbit the old rankin bass cartoon like once a day when I was a kid back in the 80's and my mom had a copy of the LOTR trilogy books
This was a fantastic analysis. Solidly based in the texts and very well thought out.
Ooooh I've never seen those quotes about Men in Aman before, they're so interesting! Good thing I just got Morgoth's Ring so I can dive in for myself! :D
One of us! One of us! 😆
Good luck with Morgoth's Ring, it's a very rewarding experience (and, as you've probably noticed, it's one of the most heavily cited 'extracanonical' sources on UA-cam). Myths Transformed is my favorite section, such a trip (although I'm also very fond of Finwe being sassy to the Valar during the remarriage debate).
Very well put together. Tolkien can be a bit dry for me personally but you evoke interested in the way you put your videos together. I look forward to watching the rest ofnyour content.
When I say he ( Tolkein) was a devoted Catholic he was was quite litteraly raised by the Church.
Yes, he and his brother Hilary were raised in part by Fr Francis Morgan after their mother was cut off financially by her Anglican relatives and passed away from what was most likely diabetes.
Really enjoyable essay~ I had much fun listening to it and You did remind me many things not to mention I've learned some new ones considering themes from appendices.
26:13 I’m not so sure that would be the case… unlikely as it is, piercing a heart doesn’t guarantee its failure: this is true with gunshots, and they’re far more damaging than an arguably small blade. Also, since the Ringwraiths themselves are not exactly dead, I think it’s wrong to assume death to be a necessary step for the wraithfication to occur. I think it’s far more likely that the blade has to reach the heart for the enchantment to work, especially so if we keep in mind that the heart is commonly seen as the house of our soul. Though Tolkien may not have stated this explicitly, he could’ve very well been influenced by such traditions
Yup, it's definitely hypothesis on my part rather than a verifiable claim 😅 always possible that I took it too far....
Regarding the significance of the *heart*, I am torn between its fairy-story/mythic/poetic value, which (as you noted) Tolkien must have been sensitive to, and his claim elsewhere that Elves did not confuse or equate the physical organ with the 'seat of emotions,' and when they say things like 'my heart tells me' it's their best attempt at translating a totally distinct concept/term. It's often the case that a perfectly-respectable use of fairy-story logic runs afoul of some of the later, more scholastic essays, so I'd say it's valid to just accept that maybe there *was* something mystical about the heart in this case after all.