I know, right?! And am I the sole fan who was glad Peter Jackson DIDN’T fool with adding the layer of Tom, et al, to the movie? That sees the Tom interlude into the rest of the narrative in LOTR as totally superfluous? I remember reading LOTR as a kid and when coming to the Bombadil/Goldberry part, thinking, “Um…why?!”. 😂
As I've gotten older, I've come to appreciate Goldberry (and Tom) more. "Have peace now until the morning! Heed no nightly noises! For nothing passes door and window here, save moonlight and starlight and the wind off the hill-top."
Yeah, I'd love to visit Tom's place. At the edge of adventure, a cozy and psychedelic place of comfort. And banger ass tracks to sing-along-to. Sip some magical singing water before embracing on more adventures involving evil trinkets, wraiths and whatnot. It's such a breath of comfort, yet in a mystical way. My headcanon is that Merry and the Pippin picked up some psychedelic mushrooms by accident from the Old forest, explaining some of these events and Tom is just a normal dude singing a lot. Okay I'm just joking around here. Maybe... Anyway, I always used to skip it, now I love reading these passages. So on the same boat as you :) edit: i realize now your comment was more about Goldberry as is the video; I just woke up and not fully cognizant yet, sorry. Anyway, I also love Goldberry's mystical aura and near-annoying ambiguity about Tom. "He is, as you have seen him." Okay, thanks for the info :D
@@expred hundreds have said that skipping Tom and the song and poems and or the description of a tree and a leaf or something on the side of the road don’t get Tolkien. As it’s all important. Heck. Even faramir said to Frodo he wouldn’t take the ring even if he saw it on the side of the road somewhere.
I think it comes close to the answer, but don't forget she's the river-woman's _daughter_, not the river-woman herself. As far as we know from the Silmarillion, none of the Ainur have offspring among themselves, but there is a precedent for one reproducing with an Elf (Melian the Maia and Elwë/Thingol, parents of Luthien). So my hypothesis is that a Maia of Ulmo (embodiment or guardian of the Withywindle, or possibly Baranduin) was involved with a non-famous elf in the distant past, and Goldberry is the result. It's simplest to assume an elven father who departed west due to physical death or ennui, because in Tolkien's world a human/maiar couple wouldn't happen. (In GRRM's world, her father would of course be Bombadil himself.)
With Goldberry and Tom, I’ve often thought of them as demonstrating in their marriage the interaction between Nature and Mankind if Mankind had not Fallen. The elves had not fallen as a race (they had as individuals) and Nature entwined with them, and together, places of beauty and solace were created. Goldberry and Tom showed what the interplay of unfallen Mankind and Nature would be like. More rustic, closer to the beating heart of the Earth, less etherial and more sensual than the elves, rustic and more fun, but no less wonderful. The Eruhini are of Arda, but fallen Man is distanced from it. G&T give a glimpse of what life in Arda would be like for unfallen men. I haven’t pondered on this in some time, but it’s how G+T make the most sense to me. That’s the best thing about your videos for me, Lexi. Even when real life is crazy for months on end, you create a moment to allow me to revisit Tolkien’s work - and that allows me the space to think about different, simpler, but in many ways deeper things.
I always thought Goldbery very interesting and could never understand why almost nobody talks about her, when everyone is wondering about Bombadil. So happy to see this video! ❤
I always thought she had a touch of Persephone - she appears at the cusp of summer and fall, and the perils the hobbits face are natural and alive before they meet the Bombadils (Old Man Willow) and dead and supernatural after (the barrow wights).
@GirlNextGondor It implies perhaps there were other similar beings that did not have beating hearts, that were purely spiritual, or illusory. From the time I first read it as a much younger man it always seemed a strange way to describe a corporeal being. To be sure, Tolkien did not just add the line as filler.
I always read it as a double meaning, in that first he was surprised at Goldberry being corporeal, maybe she'd been taunting him and tricking him for a considerable time? And he didn't "think" she was, but some incorporeal spirit playing tricks on him. But also, and more immediate, the quite obvious boy meets girl meets boy scenario. "And her heart was a beating". I wouldn't be surprised if her reprise was "and his feet were a floundering"
@@Requiemslove She's actually a semi-transparent river-nymph, of a kind known to biology, being larvae of insects such as mayflies, damselflies and dragonflies.
When you said "wights' barrow" I heard it as "white sparrow" and was momentarily confused. This has been your help-with-the-algorithm interaction for today!
It's probably not very important, but I think it likely that Goldberry descends from the river-fairies in The Water-Babies (1863) by Charles Kingsley -- a strange, pro-Darwinian children's story which was a Christmas gift-book in Tolkien's youth. The fairies are portrayed similarly to real water-creatures, rather like young-Goldberry, and they have a Queen who would be the River-woman.
Tom? "Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow, Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow. None has ever caught him yet, for Tom, he is the Master: His songs are stronger songs, and his feet are faster." Goldberry is Tom's wife.
I love the characters of Tom Bombadill and Gold Berry. I felt that the fellowship of the ring wasn't complete without them in the movie. I was also disippointed about the fight for the shire. That should have been included too.
The movies are crap without those. Those two events are the absolute soul of the book. They symbolize Tolkien's utopic Catholic vision of what life could be, and how to feel to achieve it, AND that you cannot ever "go home again" after participating in any conflict abroad. It changes you AND your home. These are absolutely the critical points Tolkien made about conflict and harmony. It also makes no sense that the hobbits become leaders at home with no demonstration of what they had learned in war.. and how Frodo felt isolated in a Shire touched by war. SO MUCH could have been done with both. Instead we got what seems like 20.minutes of gay-adjacent greetings and battle scenes that should have been laid aside for the extended edition so the emotional parts of the story got more space. For this reason I don't mind at all extending Arwens part so much, she is serving as Goldsberry and Glorfindel both. As wormtongue kills Sharkey anyway this is less shifty but misses that the setting is the point.
I always got the feeling that Tom and Goldberry were aligned to the spirit of place 'gods'. River spirits in Goldberry's case and certainly in Tom's case you gather that within his own 'Kingdom' he's very powerful. So much so that the ring has absolutely zero influence on him. But outside of it might well be another matter. Both Tom and Goldberry are clearly closely aligned to nature and Tom's chief role seems to be both to nurture it and prevent it from being imbalanced, hence his contention with 'Old Man Willow' which is a form of nature turned into a malevolent force. In either case everything about Tom and Goldberry is always tied to place. They are reminiscent of the lesser Gods of place worshiped in particular by the Romans and by the Teutonic and Celtic peoples. Gods tied to a particular river, spring, forest or even a region. All powerful in their own place but otherwise limited in power. Tom contends with local matters, his enemies are local, his wife local, his acquaintances generally come to see him (not the other way around) unless they live nearby, like Farmer Maggot. He is tied to 'place'.
I love seeing my illustration used in the video! 😁 Great video as always, I love especially the comparison of Goldberry with Galadriel. It was always obvious that there was a similarity, but the number of parallels in the narrative is striking. And at the same time the differences are even more interesting. Goldberry representing the seasonal changes in natural landscape, whereas Lothlórien is so enchanted in its time bubble, that even the seasons do not work there as they would normally do.
The observation of Goldberry’s expressly emphasized seasonality being the opposite of Galadriel and her Wood’s expressly emphasized disruption of the usual seasons is really important, I think. Tolkien did that on purpose, for certain.
Once again, I'd like to compliment you on your art selection for the visuals. I watch other Tolkien channels and see a lot of the same (very, very well-produced) images repeated there. Many of your selections are new to me and equally well done.
@@GirlNextGondor So who on earth was that supposedf to be in the final art photo? Goldberry is described as being as slender as a willow-wand yet the person depicted in that picture is anything but slim. Her thigh is thicker than my whole body. Has Goldberry benn on steroids?
She's the secret love child of Ulmo and Yavanna. As a result she is not a Valar or Maiar. as she was never an Ainur. Yet she is clearly not a Child of Illuvitar. The stillness of a flowing river, or the persistence of change in the seasons, a being of beautiful paradox.
An interesting theory, but it is flawed. The problem is, Eru is THE God. The first and the timeless, the immutable, the forever, the has always, will always be. Eru, created everything, even that which Eru didn't consciously bring into being, exists due to Eru's subconscious thought filling in the blanks. That is what the "nameless" and such as Ungoliant are. Ultimately, everything owe's its creation to Eru, for only Eru "can" create. If Goldberry is the love child of Yavanna and Aule, well, guess what, the conception of that is because of Eru, on a very real biological level. Eru is THE God of Tolkien's world. And much like God, for Tolkien, creates EVERYTHING as far as he as a Christian, is concerned, so does Eru. They are one and the same concept. Goldberry is then a child of Illuvator, because EVERYTHING is. [Even Tom Bombadil]
@@Requiemslove Child of Illuvitar in this sense is a reference to the Children of Eru Illuvitar, those being Elves, Men, and the "adopted" Dwarves. Goldberry is not any of those three.
@@DrTimes99 Yes. I know that. You merely quote the Silmarillian, Dr Times. But Eru created far more than the "races". Directly or indirectly, Eru creates EVERYTHING that exists in all of the universe of that fiction. That includes all the Valar, the Maia and all the lesser spirits after which. Be that direct creation or indirect creation. Direct being that which Eru is well aware that Eru did. Indirect being either that which came FROM what Eru created, as in the albeit rare progeny OF Valar's and maia, or that which Eru subconsciously made, because EVERYTHING needs an opposite. That is for example what Ungoliant is about. Yes, in fact, Eru CREATED Ungoliant. Whether Eru would choose to accept that or not. What I am saying here is that in the case of Goldberry, whatever she "is" directly or indirectly she was created by Eru. There's no way she could "not" be, because EVERYTHING see's it's uttermost source in Illuvatar. From the children Eru claims directly to every spirit Eru fashioned in the dawn of time itself to "not be lonely", to the nameless and the evil and the foul things that crawl around in the dark recesses away from the light, to every progeny of any sentient creature that has ever been. All of it, EVERYTHING is created by Eru. Eru is the spark that causes everything that has ever or will ever be, cause to be. The alpha and omega and every other phrase. The centre of all that there is. Because Eru is THE God of Tolkien's fiction, and is much akin to Tolkien's Christian God. [That is regardless of any of us knowing in the very LITERAL sense that Tolkien himself, made everything, that is a moot point in the case of the canon of the fiction]
Perfect discussion to listen to while im outside transplanting a bunch of seedlings in the fog while its lightly misting rain. Not rain just mist drops. Perfect discussion for this. Loved it thanks.
I've wondered about Goldberry. She and Tom are favorites of mine. I think that the idea that she is linked with Ulmo, perhaps a Maia, makes a lot of sense. I also have wondered if she and Tom are Elementals of something like. It seems likely that they were sung into existence when Middle Earth was.
I don’t believe there is a River woman. I think it’s a deliberate mistranslation, a device of Tolkien to pick homophones but to use both their meanings from different languages. In this case in Welsh (the inspiration for Sindarin) the word ‘merch’ can be ‘woman, girl, maiden’. But in other languages, the word ‘merc’ is at the root of words meaning ‘mark, boundary, border’ ie Mercia, Westmarch, the Marish etc So I think ‘river woman’s daughter’ is more like ‘daughter/maiden of the river’s edge/border’. What’s fun is applying this concept to other names and I found something interesting for Finduilas: (also from Welsh) Ffin > of ‘boundary, border’ Dwr > water Las > maybe short for ‘lass’ girl/maiden (as in ‘Frodo-lad’ and ‘Rosie-lass’) So ‘Finduilas’ can perhaps also be interpreted as ‘maiden of the river’s edge/border’🫠
@@ravendelacour1917 Indeed. And one has to wonder what water we might be discussing and what kind of border. Can you think of another example, perhaps more biological than geological?
@@David.Bowman. Are you aware of the mythic concept of the Anima/Animus, the living spirit of a place? Goldberry strongly resembles such a being embodying the waters of the Old Forest and Tom the land. Each representing where raw primal nature of the land and the human intersect. Their relationship embodying the water and land mingling and providing the land life.
@@ravendelacour1917I wasn’t familiar with that term but they definitely do fit that description! I was being more broad - though not unrelated - the ‘border’ is a womb, and the ‘water’ being amniotic fluid. What’s fun is if you break down the name Elbereth Gilthoniel: ‘gilth’ could come from the Gothic/Germanic ‘kilþei’ meaning ‘womb, uterus’. ‘oniel’ could be a singular suffix taken from Latin ‘-onia’, which formed Roman goddess names. Which brings me back to my other comment where I mentioned the British legend of Sabrina of the River Severn. Which matches up nicely with your description 😊 So Goldberry can also be linked through metaphor, etymology and mythology to Varda herself!
@@GirlNextGondor hey am I dreaming or did you change the title because I feel like I wouldn't have made that joke if it was up there already? I won't tell if you did.
Man I love being in the time I’m in… my father was an arguably bigger Tolkien fan than anyone I’ve ever met, read everything, watched everything, etc… but he never really got to experience such philosophy on the topics as I get from these kinds of videos. Thank you young lady, every year my respect for Tolkien and his effect on the modern world grows.
This was fr a great video. I loved the comparisons to Galadriel. I never thought of her as a “Galadriel-warmup.” I also love that you dissected Goldberry as opposed to Tom. I don’t think I’ve seen another Tolkien channel do that.
Having watched farther, I change my answer to Tom being an uncorrupted Man (evil thus has no power over him, nor even does death) wooing a playful Maiar. Which is honestly quite a wholesome romance.
He is described differently to that of a man. If I recall he is described as somewhat taller and yet as burly as any dwarf yet shorter in stature than a man. Beside which he is known as "the first". If we take that literally, the FIRST sentient being, period. At the least of flesh and blood. Tom was walking before there were the Elves. No Ent's had been created, and no Dwarfs were awake yet. I see him more as a caretaker sent to Arda by the authority [Eru] to better prepare it for what was to come, which eventually set aside that duty when Bombadil found a spot in Arda that Bombadil cherished. We have to remember that even the Ainur didn't take up physical forms until they went to what would become the "undying" lands. Which lends credence to the very real possibility that Bombadil really WAS the first. [as in the first sentient being sent to Arda] I see it as Eru cast about Eru's gaze, looking for a likely gardener, and then fixated on whatever passes for the spirit of Tom Bombadil, who was more than willing to fulfil that role. [initially]
It was Elrond who had forgotten Tom, not Gandalf. Elrond then wondered aloud if he was the same being as was heard of long ago, and if he was, should he have been summoned to the council. Gandalf just says that Tom would not have come.
Haven't seen the video yet, but I gotta say you always come up with the best video ideas. We all love to theorize on merry fellow Bombadil, but Goldberry is as mysterious as him. Surely we can learn more about Tolkien's world by diving into her character. Edit: Watched it now, I loved to hear about Goldberry's connection to Ulmo and especially her place in the story and themes of LOTR. Her and Bombadil are more connected to Middle-Earth (both in universe and in the meta narrative) than I had previously thought. Beautifully crafted video 💛
I think I favor the idea that Bombadil is a manifestation of Ea itself, which is the master but does not dominate others, and Goldberry is that part of Ea that is the progress and process of the living things on Ea, the turning of the seasons, and the things that a life on Ea. Thus Bombadil and Goldberry work in concert to make a total whole. This is reflected in how they worked separately yet clearly in concert in laying the table before the meal.
I've always thought it was interesting that Frodo's dream/vision of the undying lands came in the home of Tom and Goldberry, long before the hobbits got to Lothlorien and Galadriel.
A thought occurred to me during the discussion of Goldberry possibly being a Maia of Ulmo: If I'm not mistaken (please correct me if I am), Tolkien didn't fully abandon the concept of some Maiar being children of the Valar until _after_ the publication of LotR. So in that context, Goldberry being "daughter of the River" might then take an interesting meaning.
@@Enerdhil He would be the authority on it all. Still, it's interesting to consider nonetheless. I get the impression he abandoned that specific strand because of the sheer headache it would cause. How much bigger would the geneology be if the Valar and offspring [?] were also included? [Along with all Samwise's children, ETC...]
Married with three children, divorced, re-married for coming up on twenty years. I wish I had met a woman in my youth who came close to your interest in Tolkien. You/she would have been my Rosie Coton. My wife supports/entertains my obsession with Tolkien, but she doesn't get it.
@@PrometheanRising Well put! Perhaps that's also why getting immersed in Tolkien lore seems so therapeutic to me, it's a different world I love to learn more about, and it feels I've been living there for a long time.... yet simultaneously I live in a completely different world to it. The other world (Tolkien's lore) is quite like being able to see to the Unseen realm, a place where other fans dwell, yet while inhabiting the "Seen world". hehe. Listening to a lore channel like this one really sends my mind to another place... another mind, actually, that of Tolkien's. I know Tolkien himself thought that Middle Earth is the same world as the world we live in ; while I don't personally like to consider this canon (even though it is), that means we Tolkienists could also say we're living in two different eras, instead of worlds, at once :)
I can partially relate, however I wanna say it's delightful how these days we can at least discuss these matters online with other fans so easily :) Different people in my life have different roles, one person does not have to fill all the needs we have. Obviously it would be amazing to have a partner who loves discussing Tolkien, but the main thing is she supports and entertains it. And you can talk about the topic with other people, for example right here. But I get what you mean. My friend, married for 10 years, said "She never really understood Tolkien though... Well, there's still time for a divorce" LOL (this was a joke between us, obviously this is not something to have a divorce over. But a good laugh we had over it) edit: replying here to @stoner36s ... UA-cam comments are quite confusing sometimes, to realize who is talking to who.
I always thought of Tom as an embodiment or necessary aspect of *the* song, and as Goldberry as a singer of some sort - a Maia of Ulmo definitely works
for me, Tom and goldberry represent this aspect of the world that "just is", irrespective of whether some upright walking apes (or diminutive soon-to-be heroes) can understand it or not. Some things we just, as an individual, won't know or understand, try as we might....
Thanks for another video! Always a good day when they land. I like how you even formatted Tom's prose with linebreaks to reflect the poetic meter of his speech 🙂
I get the impression that Goldberry was one of the Children of the Valar from the early Legendarium who was retained and used in the LotR as a transition from the Shire to the wider world the Hobbits will be plunged into in the near future. She might have been a daughter of Ulmo at one point instead of one of his people. I think of her as the Kami of the Withywindle. Perhaps during the Shaping of Arda, some Maiar were assigned certain land / water features and some of those Maiar became attached to their pet project in the same way that other Ainu get attached and then confined into a particular form. The closest Ainu to Goldberry for me is crotchety old Carhadras. If it took physical for I imagine it would look like old Clint Eastwood yelling, "Get Off My Lawn!" Sweet Goldberry is his opposite in personality of course, but they are the sort of fey nature spirits that were part of the Legendarium before the Valar went from gods to angels.
Interesting thought. I wonder if there is anything specific in either volume of The Book of Lost Tales that talks about a character that could have been proto-Goldberry.
@@Enerdhil Neither was Eru. In my head-canon, when Melian had a child Eru began to try and crunch the numbers of the eventual geneology, got a SERIOUS headache and then decided "you know what, it's hard enough work keeping tabs on all the MORTAL babies, I don't WANT this headache as well". And then just snapped Eru's fingers, or whatever Eru does when Eru makes a choice, and, no more Valar babies. I guess even one true Gods have second thoughts every once in a while...
I’ve also been interested in who Goldberry was. I’ve wondered why there hasn’t been more curiosity regarding her origin, powers and the love she and Tom share. Thank you for all you have shared!
Lexi this was just brilliant, i may have to listen to it again, it is so rich. Thanks for pointing out the parallels between the encounters with Goldberry and Galadriel. Also that wonderful hint of mysticism at the (as in transcending time and space) which Tom also does when he leads the hobbits back to the silence of the heavens. It is a sudden fear and wonder of that silence that makes Frodo ask Tom who he is. Then a shadow passes the window and Goldberry comes in. What an absolutely brilliant writer Tolkien was.
A breath-taking analysis! Perhaps your best yet! Thanks to your sharing your thoughts and insights, my rereading have become profoundly enriched. Thank you!
Tokein hated allegory, so anything he meant by his stories was unintentional unless he was unconsciously channeling some cosmic truth. That being said, if Galadriel is the Empress in a deck of tarot, then Goldberry is the Queen of Hearts. So, basically the same thing, just with some nuance.
Your scholarship is so impressive... and more impressively, matched by your delightful presentation. Much respect! Thank you for sharing your insights.
Tom was a plot device character meant for irrelevance until obsessive speculation about his origins morphed him into prominence. If asked about Tom directly, Tolkien would state Tom was an afterthought character rather than an enigma.
This was great stuff GNG, your drawing out of parallels, both between Goldberry and Galadriel and between Goldberry and other mythic figures is illuminating. For me Goldberry is one of the most delightful mysteries, which the professor spreads throughout his works for us. I most often see her as a spirit of change, who somehow remains constant. Luckily she is a down to earth character, easier for us lowly folk to love than some of the higher characters. I also love how she changes the hobbits and the nature of the book. Thank you.
This video has made the themes of a TTRPG character I've been playing every week for several years click into place. Thank you. My character was heavily inspired by Lúthien, and a dash of Goldberry is totally what I need to finish off her story. Goldberry is one of those characters that I find I haven't thought about a lot, but her themes and vibes have been growing inside me for many years. Like, she's very important in a very subtle and not necessary to speak way. But when somebody as skilled as yourself comes out and makes a video discussing Goldberry it does prove the value of words in crystallising thoughts and vibes.
Your video essays are always top notch. They reach a level of depth, interconnectivity and amount of insight which is honestly impressive. Your delivery is also crystal clear and sometimes frankly put hilarious, I do love the occasional dry humor here and there. (I'm still laughing over "hijinxes ensue" as your description of the entirity of events of LotR in one of the videos, think it was about Arwen&Aragorn)... I'm not a native English speaker but I can still tell your essays have great structure, they are very academic and scholarly, just overall well written. Still they're not dry, they have a sparkle of magic in them. Quite like Tolkien himself. I think the most impressive thing however is how with almost every single video you've managed to breathe life into any topic by presenting new perspectives - even topics I feel I "know everything about". I am proven wrong every time, and to "know everything about Tolkien" is pretty much like saying "i understand all of quantum physics". If I say I do, I don't. I'm sure Tolkien himself would be impressed by your work. What a shame he isn't around to hear these, to see how we people connect over his stories still so long after his passing. Lexi, may you have a summer blessed by the Valar themselves!
The same to you, friend! I'm very grateful you took the time to write this out - it matters a lot to me that my videos keep a sense of humor no matter how scholarly they get, so I'm always particularly happy when I hear others value it too. And I definitely agree that knowing 'everything about Tolkien' is impossible; no matter how deep into the books I go, I'm always left feeling like I'm standing on the shore of an ocean, trying to see across it. Of course, that's part of the fun 😁 Thanks again 💖I'm glad you've enjoyed the channel and really appreciate the feedback!
@@GirlNextGondor I'm happy to have made a positive impact with my comment. The scholarly professionalism with an occasional witty comment here and there makes a big difference in my opinion. I always thought learning should be entertaining, so I might be a bit biased here. Jokes and other forms of entertainment make even the heaviest of topics more digestible. And I don't seem to be the only one enjoying the humor (The comment section of your videos are a gold mine on their own and surprisingly civil for, well, an Internet comment section. Your squad definitely loves you). Every time I think I've finished hearing all the details about any Tolkien topic, I just seem to reach "new unattainable vistas" as the Fantasy OG himself would probably phrase it. And it's amazing. I still can't believe all of this stuff I've spent years researching as a hobby comes from the mind of basically a single person (of course he draws influence from others and myths, and there is the amazing work of Christopher Tolkien which deserve all the praise in the world, but in the end it is still pretty much a one man project). The mind can truly be a vast and a beautiful place. It's also trippy to imagine how Tolkien never could have foreseen how successful his works would become. Being an artist myself (though not literary, but audio/visuals), the thought of dedicating my life to pretty much a single project and not even knowing if people will care, truly speaks for how much this project meant to the man himself. I'd imagine any kind of fame was an afterthought. But I'm getting sidetracked here. Thanks for taking the time to reply and as always, looking forward to the next one! Though, especially with your quality of research, I definitely would choose quality over quantity here (as pretty much anywhere tbh). Doesn't matter how long it takes, so don't feel too pressured to come up with something, the squad will gladly wait for more :)
What a great analysis! This is the first time I've gotten a recommendation for your channel, and I'll definitely be back for more. I have to admit that I never thought much about where Goldberry came from, although if anyone had asked me, I'd have guessed she was a Maia of Ulmo's domain - a child of a river-dwelling Maia, I guess. I also want to thank you for curating *good* art for your video - and for crediting the artists on the spot rather than jumbling all their names together in the end credits or description. This sets you apart from other certain Tolkien UA-camrs, and it shows you care for proper accreditation. Thanks for the lovely video!
...a brilliant exploration and analysis of Goldberry as a character, and looking at the interplay between her and Tom, as well as looking into the similarities and differences with Galadriel is very enlightening, while you show all the respect to not nail her down unnecessarily, as well as Tom... beautifully done - love it! I'm sure that Tolkien put much care, intuition and attunement into the choices of names, pairing up, may it be Sauron and Saruman, Arwen and Eowyn, Boromir and Faramir, or... Galadriel and Goldberry - they share the 'G' as a door into the vibration of their name, between them, but also with Gandalf... co-incidence? - I don't think so. 🌈
I think Tom is an accidental good created by Morgoth's part of the song. He can easily handle the ring because of this. Every good character in the story are affected by the ring negatively, Tom isn't. Goldberry is his compass that keeps him on the right path with her love she has for him and his love for her.
My favourite explanation for Tom comes from the fanfiction The Green Ring by EvadneGrande. The story is about a girl from modern Earth who happens across one of old Andrew Ketterly's world-hopping rings from The Magician's Nephew and is sent to Middle Earth at the end of the Third Age. Tom is a boy who was sent to Middle Earth way back at the very dawn of creation, before even elves, and has been wandering ever since. The fact that he is from outside of Arda is why he is not subject to Arda's laws, and hence is ageless and able to handle the One Ring without issue.
I really like the idea of her being a Maia, but in my headcanon whenever I read through LoTR, I like to think of her as some kind of conceptual river spirit. I got the vibe she may be an embodiment of how the sound of water is the closest thing to the music of the Ainur brought to being, especially with how intrinsic singing seems to be to her character!
Cant she not be both? Consider when Bombadil is joking about the one Ring. To him, it's a mere trifle. A toy of little consequence. And how when he put it on [for Tom put ON the one Ring] he didn't vanish from sight, and said and DEMONSTRATED to Frodo that he could see Frodo when Frodo had the ring on. Tom is both of the seen and the unseen, as much in one as in the other. More so even than any Elf of any stature. Tom remarks on "catching" Goldberry, that "and her heart was a beating". Could it not be that he was delighted at finding a being much like he? That she is there, corporeally, yet also innately a spirit made flesh? A spirit that eventually became a living being. As though, just maybe, Eru was like "Oh go on then, live, have fun out there". And then Tom Bombadil, who claims he is the "first" had a companion. One created initially just as a spirit of the prominent river in that region yet eventually became more.
Brilliant analysis, both scholarly and inspiring. This whole passage of LotR is really fundamental to my enjoyment of the Legendarium. Thank you for your take on her literary purpose as well as her place in the ontology of Tolkiens mythology.
And my heart starts racing at the sight of a new GNG video. I'm prepared to be enlightened and slightly intimidated by levels of intelligence to which I can only aspire.
Excellent food for (getting lost in) thought! As you teased out the subtle differences between Bombadil’s and Goldberry’s behavior, it occurred to me that Tom incessantly (seemingly without willing it) talks and sings in the same poetic meter, as though he were a fairly pure expression of a specific motif in the music of the Ainur - perhaps taking on a body and a name only because he likes interaction with nature and occasionally with other sentient folks. Goldberry certainly can sing, but her songs seem to have a different quality of intentionality. Tom flows with things and occasionally employs some verbal tai chi to avoid drowning or injury; Goldberry understands the flows but also makes things happen on a larger scale (very consistent with the “Maia of Ulmo” hypothesis). And over the years they learn of each other’s ways, so that while still distinct from each other their views and purposes drift closer together over the years. Dang, I’ve got to go make some progress on my fanfic now.
I love this theory. Just Tom Bombadil written as a song with a 'repeat from :' notatation at the end of the tune, under which are scribbled his many, many verses.
Goldberry's association with seasons also reminds me of Vana with her flowers and spring thing. Could we be dealing with a duel associated Maia like Olorin or something?
Goldberry as a daughter of the valar was always my belief and Tom is the first archetype "man" was also my thought . He stopped heading west when he met goldberry . The love of your life is more important than your life's journey , they become your life . Just my thoughts . Thank you for your site/ page ....
Babe, wake up! The Queen has returned! And she's picking water lilies for the River daughter!
🏵🌼🏵
lmao. Tolkien:"Don't think about Tom too much. It's not important." Fandom: " Challenge accepted."
😂🤣
I know, right?! And am I the sole fan who was glad Peter Jackson DIDN’T fool with adding the layer of Tom, et al, to the movie? That sees the Tom interlude into the rest of the narrative in LOTR as totally superfluous? I remember reading LOTR as a kid and when coming to the Bombadil/Goldberry part, thinking, “Um…why?!”. 😂
As I've gotten older, I've come to appreciate Goldberry (and Tom) more.
"Have peace now until the morning!
Heed no nightly noises!
For nothing passes door and window here,
save moonlight and starlight and the wind off the hill-top."
I am always struck by how well Tolkien writes dialogue for female characters.
@@EnerdhilI'm always impressed by how well he writes everything 😁
Yeah, I'd love to visit Tom's place. At the edge of adventure, a cozy and psychedelic place of comfort. And banger ass tracks to sing-along-to. Sip some magical singing water before embracing on more adventures involving evil trinkets, wraiths and whatnot. It's such a breath of comfort, yet in a mystical way.
My headcanon is that Merry and the Pippin picked up some psychedelic mushrooms by accident from the Old forest, explaining some of these events and Tom is just a normal dude singing a lot. Okay I'm just joking around here. Maybe...
Anyway, I always used to skip it, now I love reading these passages. So on the same boat as you :)
edit: i realize now your comment was more about Goldberry as is the video; I just woke up and not fully cognizant yet, sorry. Anyway, I also love Goldberry's mystical aura and near-annoying ambiguity about Tom. "He is, as you have seen him." Okay, thanks for the info :D
@@Enerdhil notice how treebeard/Fangorn speaks several lines of Tom. Gandalf does too. In the movies.
@@expred hundreds have said that skipping Tom and the song and poems and or the description of a tree and a leaf or something on the side of the road don’t get Tolkien. As it’s all important. Heck. Even faramir said to Frodo he wouldn’t take the ring even if he saw it on the side of the road somewhere.
Whoa, the parallels with Galadriel are eerie. Can’t believe I never noticed that before!
Oooh. Really like the idea of Goldberry being a Maia of Ulmo.
I think she most likely was, a lower-level one, a river-sprite Maia in the company or service of Uinen.
I like that concept too.
I believe she's a river sprite, lower level.
I think it comes close to the answer, but don't forget she's the river-woman's _daughter_, not the river-woman herself. As far as we know from the Silmarillion, none of the Ainur have offspring among themselves, but there is a precedent for one reproducing with an Elf (Melian the Maia and Elwë/Thingol, parents of Luthien). So my hypothesis is that a Maia of Ulmo (embodiment or guardian of the Withywindle, or possibly Baranduin) was involved with a non-famous elf in the distant past, and Goldberry is the result. It's simplest to assume an elven father who departed west due to physical death or ennui, because in Tolkien's world a human/maiar couple wouldn't happen. (In GRRM's world, her father would of course be Bombadil himself.)
@@johnscanlon8467
Goldberry a child of Ulmo?! 😱
It would explain why he isn't married, though.😅
With Goldberry and Tom, I’ve often thought of them as demonstrating in their marriage the interaction between Nature and Mankind if Mankind had not Fallen. The elves had not fallen as a race (they had as individuals) and Nature entwined with them, and together, places of beauty and solace were created. Goldberry and Tom showed what the interplay of unfallen Mankind and Nature would be like. More rustic, closer to the beating heart of the Earth, less etherial and more sensual than the elves, rustic and more fun, but no less wonderful. The Eruhini are of Arda, but fallen Man is distanced from it. G&T give a glimpse of what life in Arda would be like for unfallen men. I haven’t pondered on this in some time, but it’s how G+T make the most sense to me. That’s the best thing about your videos for me, Lexi. Even when real life is crazy for months on end, you create a moment to allow me to revisit Tolkien’s work - and that allows me the space to think about different, simpler, but in many ways deeper things.
I really like how you've phrased this, and I pretty much agree.
Sounds kind of like Enkidu and Shamhat in the epic of Gilgamesh.
How can you fall as a race and still have individual free will?
I always thought Goldbery very interesting and could never understand why almost nobody talks about her, when everyone is wondering about Bombadil. So happy to see this video! ❤
I always thought she had a touch of Persephone - she appears at the cusp of summer and fall, and the perils the hobbits face are natural and alive before they meet the Bombadils (Old Man Willow) and dead and supernatural after (the barrow wights).
I would love Overly Sarcastic Productions take on that! They did wonderful deconstructions of Persephone
"And her heart was beating!"
A very interesting observation.
Rules out barrow-wight, I should hope 🤣 💗
@GirlNextGondor It implies perhaps there were other similar beings that did not have beating hearts, that were purely spiritual, or illusory. From the time I first read it as a much younger man it always seemed a strange way to describe a corporeal being. To be sure, Tolkien did not just add the line as filler.
@@GirlNextGondor
Yes. Goldberry has white arms, not wight arms.
I always read it as a double meaning, in that first he was surprised at Goldberry being corporeal, maybe she'd been taunting him and tricking him for a considerable time? And he didn't "think" she was, but some incorporeal spirit playing tricks on him.
But also, and more immediate, the quite obvious boy meets girl meets boy scenario. "And her heart was a beating". I wouldn't be surprised if her reprise was "and his feet were a floundering"
@@Requiemslove She's actually a semi-transparent river-nymph, of a kind known to biology, being larvae of insects such as mayflies, damselflies and dragonflies.
I always figured Tom was basically Man before the Fall (an un-Fallen Adam), so Goldberry could be an un-Fallen Eve.
I love Tolkien's ethereal description of Lady Goldberry. The man had a way with words.
Meeting a lady at the river can be life changing.
Leonard Cohen wrote a song about that.
When you said "wights' barrow" I heard it as "white sparrow" and was momentarily confused.
This has been your help-with-the-algorithm interaction for today!
It's probably not very important, but I think it likely that Goldberry descends from the river-fairies in The Water-Babies (1863) by Charles Kingsley -- a strange, pro-Darwinian children's story which was a Christmas gift-book in Tolkien's youth. The fairies are portrayed similarly to real water-creatures, rather like young-Goldberry, and they have a Queen who would be the River-woman.
And said mother easily has a connection as a Maia of Ulmo’s lot
... i.o. descends - ascends maybe?
@@itsjkforreal I meant it was her ancestry as a concept :-))
Tom? "Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow, Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow. None has ever caught him yet, for Tom, he is the Master: His songs are stronger songs, and his feet are faster." Goldberry is Tom's wife.
Why, the answer is right there,
Springing fair in the video:
Goldberry, GNG my dear,
she's a merry yellow berry-o!
I love the characters of Tom Bombadill and Gold Berry. I felt that the fellowship of the ring wasn't complete without them in the movie. I was also disippointed about the fight for the shire. That should have been included too.
The movies are crap without those.
Those two events are the absolute soul of the book. They symbolize Tolkien's utopic Catholic vision of what life could be, and how to feel to achieve it, AND that you cannot ever "go home again" after participating in any conflict abroad. It changes you AND your home. These are absolutely the critical points Tolkien made about conflict and harmony. It also makes no sense that the hobbits become leaders at home with no demonstration of what they had learned in war.. and how Frodo felt isolated in a Shire touched by war.
SO MUCH could have been done with both. Instead we got what seems like 20.minutes of gay-adjacent greetings and battle scenes that should have been laid aside for the extended edition so the emotional parts of the story got more space.
For this reason I don't mind at all extending Arwens part so much, she is serving as Goldsberry and Glorfindel both. As wormtongue kills Sharkey anyway this is less shifty but misses that the setting is the point.
I always got the feeling that Tom and Goldberry were aligned to the spirit of place 'gods'. River spirits in Goldberry's case and certainly in Tom's case you gather that within his own 'Kingdom' he's very powerful. So much so that the ring has absolutely zero influence on him. But outside of it might well be another matter.
Both Tom and Goldberry are clearly closely aligned to nature and Tom's chief role seems to be both to nurture it and prevent it from being imbalanced, hence his contention with 'Old Man Willow' which is a form of nature turned into a malevolent force.
In either case everything about Tom and Goldberry is always tied to place. They are reminiscent of the lesser Gods of place worshiped in particular by the Romans and by the Teutonic and Celtic peoples. Gods tied to a particular river, spring, forest or even a region. All powerful in their own place but otherwise limited in power.
Tom contends with local matters, his enemies are local, his wife local, his acquaintances generally come to see him (not the other way around) unless they live nearby, like Farmer Maggot. He is tied to 'place'.
I love seeing my illustration used in the video! 😁 Great video as always, I love especially the comparison of Goldberry with Galadriel. It was always obvious that there was a similarity, but the number of parallels in the narrative is striking. And at the same time the differences are even more interesting. Goldberry representing the seasonal changes in natural landscape, whereas Lothlórien is so enchanted in its time bubble, that even the seasons do not work there as they would normally do.
The observation of Goldberry’s expressly emphasized seasonality being the opposite of Galadriel and her Wood’s expressly emphasized disruption of the usual seasons is really important, I think. Tolkien did that on purpose, for certain.
Once again, I'd like to compliment you on your art selection for the visuals. I watch other Tolkien channels and see a lot of the same (very, very well-produced) images repeated there. Many of your selections are new to me and equally well done.
Thank you!!
@@GirlNextGondor So who on earth was that supposedf to be in the final art photo? Goldberry is described as being as slender as a willow-wand yet the person depicted in that picture is anything but slim. Her thigh is thicker than my whole body. Has Goldberry benn on steroids?
She's the secret love child of Ulmo and Yavanna. As a result she is not a Valar or Maiar. as she was never an Ainur. Yet she is clearly not a Child of Illuvitar. The stillness of a flowing river, or the persistence of change in the seasons, a being of beautiful paradox.
That... is, surprisingly, not a bad theory. A child of two Ainur... Great theory!
An interesting theory, but it is flawed. The problem is, Eru is THE God. The first and the timeless, the immutable, the forever, the has always, will always be. Eru, created everything, even that which Eru didn't consciously bring into being, exists due to Eru's subconscious thought filling in the blanks. That is what the "nameless" and such as Ungoliant are. Ultimately, everything owe's its creation to Eru, for only Eru "can" create. If Goldberry is the love child of Yavanna and Aule, well, guess what, the conception of that is because of Eru, on a very real biological level. Eru is THE God of Tolkien's world. And much like God, for Tolkien, creates EVERYTHING as far as he as a Christian, is concerned, so does Eru. They are one and the same concept.
Goldberry is then a child of Illuvator, because EVERYTHING is. [Even Tom Bombadil]
What a theory!
@@Requiemslove Child of Illuvitar in this sense is a reference to the Children of Eru Illuvitar, those being Elves, Men, and the "adopted" Dwarves. Goldberry is not any of those three.
@@DrTimes99 Yes. I know that. You merely quote the Silmarillian, Dr Times. But Eru created far more than the "races". Directly or indirectly, Eru creates EVERYTHING that exists in all of the universe of that fiction. That includes all the Valar, the Maia and all the lesser spirits after which. Be that direct creation or indirect creation. Direct being that which Eru is well aware that Eru did. Indirect being either that which came FROM what Eru created, as in the albeit rare progeny OF Valar's and maia, or that which Eru subconsciously made, because EVERYTHING needs an opposite. That is for example what Ungoliant is about. Yes, in fact, Eru CREATED Ungoliant. Whether Eru would choose to accept that or not.
What I am saying here is that in the case of Goldberry, whatever she "is" directly or indirectly she was created by Eru. There's no way she could "not" be, because EVERYTHING see's it's uttermost source in Illuvatar. From the children Eru claims directly to every spirit Eru fashioned in the dawn of time itself to "not be lonely", to the nameless and the evil and the foul things that crawl around in the dark recesses away from the light, to every progeny of any sentient creature that has ever been. All of it, EVERYTHING is created by Eru.
Eru is the spark that causes everything that has ever or will ever be, cause to be. The alpha and omega and every other phrase. The centre of all that there is. Because Eru is THE God of Tolkien's fiction, and is much akin to Tolkien's Christian God. [That is regardless of any of us knowing in the very LITERAL sense that Tolkien himself, made everything, that is a moot point in the case of the canon of the fiction]
Perfect discussion to listen to while im outside transplanting a bunch of seedlings in the fog while its lightly misting rain. Not rain just mist drops. Perfect discussion for this. Loved it thanks.
I've wondered about Goldberry. She and Tom are favorites of mine. I think that the idea that she is linked with Ulmo, perhaps a Maia, makes a lot of sense. I also have wondered if she and Tom are Elementals of something like. It seems likely that they were sung into existence when Middle Earth was.
You mean during the Ainulindalë? That could be true.
She is the River-woman's daughter
I don’t believe there is a River woman. I think it’s a deliberate mistranslation, a device of Tolkien to pick homophones but to use both their meanings from different languages.
In this case in Welsh (the inspiration for Sindarin) the word ‘merch’ can be ‘woman, girl, maiden’.
But in other languages, the word ‘merc’ is at the root of words meaning ‘mark, boundary, border’ ie Mercia, Westmarch, the Marish etc
So I think ‘river woman’s daughter’ is more like ‘daughter/maiden of the river’s edge/border’.
What’s fun is applying this concept to other names and I found something interesting for Finduilas: (also from Welsh)
Ffin > of ‘boundary, border’
Dwr > water
Las > maybe short for ‘lass’ girl/maiden (as in ‘Frodo-lad’ and ‘Rosie-lass’)
So ‘Finduilas’ can perhaps also be interpreted as ‘maiden of the river’s edge/border’🫠
That translation suggests Goldberry is a liminal being between the elemental realm of water and the material world.
@@ravendelacour1917 Indeed. And one has to wonder what water we might be discussing and what kind of border. Can you think of another example, perhaps more biological than geological?
@@David.Bowman. Are you aware of the mythic concept of the Anima/Animus, the living spirit of a place? Goldberry strongly resembles such a being embodying the waters of the Old Forest and Tom the land. Each representing where raw primal nature of the land and the human intersect. Their relationship embodying the water and land mingling and providing the land life.
@@ravendelacour1917I wasn’t familiar with that term but they definitely do fit that description!
I was being more broad - though not unrelated - the ‘border’ is a womb, and the ‘water’ being amniotic fluid.
What’s fun is if you break down the name Elbereth Gilthoniel:
‘gilth’ could come from the Gothic/Germanic ‘kilþei’ meaning ‘womb, uterus’.
‘oniel’ could be a singular suffix taken from Latin ‘-onia’, which formed Roman goddess names.
Which brings me back to my other comment where I mentioned the British legend of Sabrina of the River Severn. Which matches up nicely with your description 😊
So Goldberry can also be linked through metaphor, etymology and mythology to Varda herself!
the River daughter?
boom... when's lunch?
It's right now, apparently 🤣
@@GirlNextGondor :)
@@GirlNextGondor hey am I dreaming or did you change the title because I feel like I wouldn't have made that joke if it was up there already? I won't tell if you did.
I can't believe I hadn't really noticed most of the many parallels between Goldberry and Galadriel.....
Ahh the unique and beloved Goldberry thankfully getting some attention at last. Blessings of Elbereth upon you.
Man I love being in the time I’m in… my father was an arguably bigger Tolkien fan than anyone I’ve ever met, read everything, watched everything, etc… but he never really got to experience such philosophy on the topics as I get from these kinds of videos. Thank you young lady, every year my respect for Tolkien and his effect on the modern world grows.
Goldberry; don’t keep her waiting
70th birthdays are beautiful 💜❤️
80 and 90 are hard but most of us will get 70
This was fr a great video. I loved the comparisons to Galadriel. I never thought of her as a “Galadriel-warmup.”
I also love that you dissected Goldberry as opposed to Tom. I don’t think I’ve seen another Tolkien channel do that.
Having watched farther, I change my answer to Tom being an uncorrupted Man (evil thus has no power over him, nor even does death) wooing a playful Maiar. Which is honestly quite a wholesome romance.
This doesn’t make sense to me, because Men in Tolkeins lore were always subject to death, death being Iluvatar’s gift to men.
He is described differently to that of a man. If I recall he is described as somewhat taller and yet as burly as any dwarf yet shorter in stature than a man. Beside which he is known as "the first". If we take that literally, the FIRST sentient being, period. At the least of flesh and blood. Tom was walking before there were the Elves. No Ent's had been created, and no Dwarfs were awake yet. I see him more as a caretaker sent to Arda by the authority [Eru] to better prepare it for what was to come, which eventually set aside that duty when Bombadil found a spot in Arda that Bombadil cherished. We have to remember that even the Ainur didn't take up physical forms until they went to what would become the "undying" lands. Which lends credence to the very real possibility that Bombadil really WAS the first. [as in the first sentient being sent to Arda] I see it as Eru cast about Eru's gaze, looking for a likely gardener, and then fixated on whatever passes for the spirit of Tom Bombadil, who was more than willing to fulfil that role. [initially]
At the council, it seems Gandalf had no idea Tom was still there while Aragorn seemed to know him.
It was Elrond who had forgotten Tom, not Gandalf. Elrond then wondered aloud if he was the same being as was heard of long ago, and if he was, should he have been summoned to the council. Gandalf just says that Tom would not have come.
Haven't seen the video yet, but I gotta say you always come up with the best video ideas. We all love to theorize on merry fellow Bombadil, but Goldberry is as mysterious as him. Surely we can learn more about Tolkien's world by diving into her character.
Edit: Watched it now, I loved to hear about Goldberry's connection to Ulmo and especially her place in the story and themes of LOTR. Her and Bombadil are more connected to Middle-Earth (both in universe and in the meta narrative) than I had previously thought. Beautifully crafted video 💛
the 2nd night in the house Frodo's dream implies a link between the house and the West. goldberry being a miar of Ulmo makes a lot of sense suddenly
Excellent writing. Closely reasoned, economical, propulsive.
I'm glad you talked about her. She's one of my favorite characters of The Lord of the Rings novels.
Goldberry has always fascinated me, so thank you, Lexi, for this deep dive into her lore. It's a great day when GirlNextGondor teaches us!
I think I favor the idea that Bombadil is a manifestation of Ea itself, which is the master but does not dominate others, and Goldberry is that part of Ea that is the progress and process of the living things on Ea, the turning of the seasons, and the things that a life on Ea. Thus Bombadil and Goldberry work in concert to make a total whole. This is reflected in how they worked separately yet clearly in concert in laying the table before the meal.
I just thought of Tom as representing Tolkien's love of Great Britain's country and country folk.
I've always thought it was interesting that Frodo's dream/vision of the undying lands came in the home of Tom and Goldberry, long before the hobbits got to Lothlorien and Galadriel.
I like how you put the Slender as a willow-wand poem on top of the Chonkberry fan art 😂
Butterberry
A thought occurred to me during the discussion of Goldberry possibly being a Maia of Ulmo: If I'm not mistaken (please correct me if I am), Tolkien didn't fully abandon the concept of some Maiar being children of the Valar until _after_ the publication of LotR. So in that context, Goldberry being "daughter of the River" might then take an interesting meaning.
Nevertheless it is ancient lore, which Tolkien would dismiss later in his life.
@@Enerdhil He would be the authority on it all. Still, it's interesting to consider nonetheless. I get the impression he abandoned that specific strand because of the sheer headache it would cause. How much bigger would the geneology be if the Valar and offspring [?] were also included? [Along with all Samwise's children, ETC...]
Married with three children, divorced, re-married for coming up on twenty years. I wish I had met a woman in my youth who came close to your interest in Tolkien. You/she would have been my Rosie Coton.
My wife supports/entertains my obsession with Tolkien, but she doesn't get it.
To love Tolkien is to be like the elves and live in two worlds at once.
@@PrometheanRising Well put! Perhaps that's also why getting immersed in Tolkien lore seems so therapeutic to me, it's a different world I love to learn more about, and it feels I've been living there for a long time.... yet simultaneously I live in a completely different world to it. The other world (Tolkien's lore) is quite like being able to see to the Unseen realm, a place where other fans dwell, yet while inhabiting the "Seen world". hehe.
Listening to a lore channel like this one really sends my mind to another place... another mind, actually, that of Tolkien's. I know Tolkien himself thought that Middle Earth is the same world as the world we live in ; while I don't personally like to consider this canon (even though it is), that means we Tolkienists could also say we're living in two different eras, instead of worlds, at once :)
I can partially relate, however I wanna say it's delightful how these days we can at least discuss these matters online with other fans so easily :) Different people in my life have different roles, one person does not have to fill all the needs we have. Obviously it would be amazing to have a partner who loves discussing Tolkien, but the main thing is she supports and entertains it. And you can talk about the topic with other people, for example right here. But I get what you mean. My friend, married for 10 years, said "She never really understood Tolkien though... Well, there's still time for a divorce" LOL (this was a joke between us, obviously this is not something to have a divorce over. But a good laugh we had over it)
edit: replying here to @stoner36s ... UA-cam comments are quite confusing sometimes, to realize who is talking to who.
I always thought of Tom as an embodiment or necessary aspect of *the* song, and as Goldberry as a singer of some sort - a Maia of Ulmo definitely works
for me, Tom and goldberry represent this aspect of the world that "just is", irrespective of whether some upright walking apes (or diminutive soon-to-be heroes) can understand it or not. Some things we just, as an individual, won't know or understand, try as we might....
Thanks for another video! Always a good day when they land.
I like how you even formatted Tom's prose with linebreaks to reflect the poetic meter of his speech 🙂
I was so excited when I saw this content in my feed. Thank you!
I get the impression that Goldberry was one of the Children of the Valar from the early Legendarium who was retained and used in the LotR as a transition from the Shire to the wider world the Hobbits will be plunged into in the near future. She might have been a daughter of Ulmo at one point instead of one of his people. I think of her as the Kami of the Withywindle. Perhaps during the Shaping of Arda, some Maiar were assigned certain land / water features and some of those Maiar became attached to their pet project in the same way that other Ainu get attached and then confined into a particular form. The closest Ainu to Goldberry for me is crotchety old Carhadras. If it took physical for I imagine it would look like old Clint Eastwood yelling, "Get Off My Lawn!" Sweet Goldberry is his opposite in personality of course, but they are the sort of fey nature spirits that were part of the Legendarium before the Valar went from gods to angels.
Interesting thought. I wonder if there is anything specific in either volume of The Book of Lost Tales that talks about a character that could have been proto-Goldberry.
"Children of the Valar" is an old lore concept. I am not a fan of them having kids.
Are you using the Japanese word "Kami" for "God?" Are you making a reference to Miyazaki's "Sen to Chihiro no kamikakushi?" (Spirited Away)
You don't think Melian is closer to Goldberry?
@@Enerdhil Neither was Eru. In my head-canon, when Melian had a child Eru began to try and crunch the numbers of the eventual geneology, got a SERIOUS headache and then decided "you know what, it's hard enough work keeping tabs on all the MORTAL babies, I don't WANT this headache as well". And then just snapped Eru's fingers, or whatever Eru does when Eru makes a choice, and, no more Valar babies. I guess even one true Gods have second thoughts every once in a while...
Great video as always.
I’ve also been interested in who Goldberry was. I’ve wondered why there hasn’t been more curiosity regarding her origin, powers and the love she and Tom share. Thank you for all you have shared!
As always, such a great video!
Nice to have you back :)
Yeah I found Goldberry to be just as intriguing as Tom.
I really appreciate the work you're putting into this
Thanks for the new content! Made my morning 🌞🌱🍃
In "Bored of the Rings" her character is parodies as "Hashberry".
Simply another wonderful video. Thank you so much.
This is my favorite of your essays so far! We’ll done!!! They both make me think of the Tao.
Excellent video, thoroughly enjoyed watching❤👍
Best channel on UA-cam!! ♥️
Incredible analysis of these characters, and I loved all the art you picked.
Alors, belated happy birthday to Papa Burns, and Blessed Pentecost in advance!
Lexi this was just brilliant, i may have to listen to it again, it is so rich. Thanks for pointing out the parallels between the encounters with Goldberry and Galadriel. Also that wonderful hint of mysticism at the (as in transcending time and space) which Tom also does when he leads the hobbits back to the silence of the heavens. It is a sudden fear and wonder of that silence that makes Frodo ask Tom who he is. Then a shadow passes the window and Goldberry comes in. What an absolutely brilliant writer Tolkien was.
A breath-taking analysis! Perhaps your best yet! Thanks to your sharing your thoughts and insights, my rereading have become profoundly enriched. Thank you!
Great, as usual :)
Excellent! This is the best analysis of Goldberry I've read or heard in 50 years.
Yay! I've been excited for your next video. I love it already.
Yay! Thank you!
Tokein hated allegory, so anything he meant by his stories was unintentional unless he was unconsciously channeling some cosmic truth. That being said, if Galadriel is the Empress in a deck of tarot, then Goldberry is the Queen of Hearts. So, basically the same thing, just with some nuance.
THANK YOU. I feel like I truly understand Goldberry now.
Leave it to Tolkien to write a mayfly-december romance in which the immortal nature spirit is the mayfly side of the equation.
Your scholarship is so impressive... and more impressively, matched by your delightful presentation. Much respect! Thank you for sharing your insights.
Tom was a plot device character meant for irrelevance until obsessive speculation about his origins morphed him into prominence. If asked about Tom directly, Tolkien would state Tom was an afterthought character rather than an enigma.
Please a reference?
Well done!
Beautiful commentary for a foggy afternoon. Thanx!
Excellent weather for it!
This was great stuff GNG, your drawing out of parallels, both between Goldberry and Galadriel and between Goldberry and other mythic figures is illuminating. For me Goldberry is one of the most delightful mysteries, which the professor spreads throughout his works for us. I most often see her as a spirit of change, who somehow remains constant. Luckily she is a down to earth character, easier for us lowly folk to love than some of the higher characters. I also love how she changes the hobbits and the nature of the book. Thank you.
This video has made the themes of a TTRPG character I've been playing every week for several years click into place. Thank you. My character was heavily inspired by Lúthien, and a dash of Goldberry is totally what I need to finish off her story. Goldberry is one of those characters that I find I haven't thought about a lot, but her themes and vibes have been growing inside me for many years. Like, she's very important in a very subtle and not necessary to speak way. But when somebody as skilled as yourself comes out and makes a video discussing Goldberry it does prove the value of words in crystallising thoughts and vibes.
Your video essays are always top notch. They reach a level of depth, interconnectivity and amount of insight which is honestly impressive. Your delivery is also crystal clear and sometimes frankly put hilarious, I do love the occasional dry humor here and there. (I'm still laughing over "hijinxes ensue" as your description of the entirity of events of LotR in one of the videos, think it was about Arwen&Aragorn)...
I'm not a native English speaker but I can still tell your essays have great structure, they are very academic and scholarly, just overall well written. Still they're not dry, they have a sparkle of magic in them. Quite like Tolkien himself. I think the most impressive thing however is how with almost every single video you've managed to breathe life into any topic by presenting new perspectives - even topics I feel I "know everything about". I am proven wrong every time, and to "know everything about Tolkien" is pretty much like saying "i understand all of quantum physics". If I say I do, I don't.
I'm sure Tolkien himself would be impressed by your work. What a shame he isn't around to hear these, to see how we people connect over his stories still so long after his passing. Lexi, may you have a summer blessed by the Valar themselves!
The same to you, friend! I'm very grateful you took the time to write this out - it matters a lot to me that my videos keep a sense of humor no matter how scholarly they get, so I'm always particularly happy when I hear others value it too.
And I definitely agree that knowing 'everything about Tolkien' is impossible; no matter how deep into the books I go, I'm always left feeling like I'm standing on the shore of an ocean, trying to see across it. Of course, that's part of the fun 😁
Thanks again 💖I'm glad you've enjoyed the channel and really appreciate the feedback!
@@GirlNextGondor I'm happy to have made a positive impact with my comment. The scholarly professionalism with an occasional witty comment here and there makes a big difference in my opinion. I always thought learning should be entertaining, so I might be a bit biased here. Jokes and other forms of entertainment make even the heaviest of topics more digestible. And I don't seem to be the only one enjoying the humor (The comment section of your videos are a gold mine on their own and surprisingly civil for, well, an Internet comment section. Your squad definitely loves you).
Every time I think I've finished hearing all the details about any Tolkien topic, I just seem to reach "new unattainable vistas" as the Fantasy OG himself would probably phrase it. And it's amazing. I still can't believe all of this stuff I've spent years researching as a hobby comes from the mind of basically a single person (of course he draws influence from others and myths, and there is the amazing work of Christopher Tolkien which deserve all the praise in the world, but in the end it is still pretty much a one man project). The mind can truly be a vast and a beautiful place.
It's also trippy to imagine how Tolkien never could have foreseen how successful his works would become. Being an artist myself (though not literary, but audio/visuals), the thought of dedicating my life to pretty much a single project and not even knowing if people will care, truly speaks for how much this project meant to the man himself. I'd imagine any kind of fame was an afterthought. But I'm getting sidetracked here.
Thanks for taking the time to reply and as always, looking forward to the next one! Though, especially with your quality of research, I definitely would choose quality over quantity here (as pretty much anywhere tbh). Doesn't matter how long it takes, so don't feel too pressured to come up with something, the squad will gladly wait for more :)
I’ve always thought of Tom and Goldberry as Father Time (he always existed) and Mother Nature
What a great analysis! This is the first time I've gotten a recommendation for your channel, and I'll definitely be back for more. I have to admit that I never thought much about where Goldberry came from, although if anyone had asked me, I'd have guessed she was a Maia of Ulmo's domain - a child of a river-dwelling Maia, I guess. I also want to thank you for curating *good* art for your video - and for crediting the artists on the spot rather than jumbling all their names together in the end credits or description. This sets you apart from other certain Tolkien UA-camrs, and it shows you care for proper accreditation. Thanks for the lovely video!
My favorite scene
Is Tuor meeting Ulmo
That scene is epic in The Fall of Gondolin and The Silmarillion.
“Who is Goldberry?”
She is.
...a brilliant exploration and analysis of Goldberry as a character, and looking at the interplay between her and Tom, as well as looking into the similarities and differences with Galadriel is very enlightening, while you show all the respect to not nail her down unnecessarily, as well as Tom... beautifully done - love it!
I'm sure that Tolkien put much care, intuition and attunement into the choices of names, pairing up, may it be Sauron and Saruman, Arwen and Eowyn, Boromir and Faramir, or... Galadriel and Goldberry - they share the 'G' as a door into the vibration of their name, between them, but also with Gandalf... co-incidence? - I don't think so. 🌈
May God bless you and your work young lady Next Gondor💙💙💙💙😇😇😇
"and a merry yellow berry-o" 😑
Lmao your delivery makes me laugh sometimes.
Great presentation of such an Enigma
I think Tom is an accidental good created by Morgoth's part of the song. He can easily handle the ring because of this. Every good character in the story are affected by the ring negatively, Tom isn't. Goldberry is his compass that keeps him on the right path with her love she has for him and his love for her.
My favourite explanation for Tom comes from the fanfiction The Green Ring by EvadneGrande. The story is about a girl from modern Earth who happens across one of old Andrew Ketterly's world-hopping rings from The Magician's Nephew and is sent to Middle Earth at the end of the Third Age. Tom is a boy who was sent to Middle Earth way back at the very dawn of creation, before even elves, and has been wandering ever since. The fact that he is from outside of Arda is why he is not subject to Arda's laws, and hence is ageless and able to handle the One Ring without issue.
I really like the idea of her being a Maia, but in my headcanon whenever I read through LoTR, I like to think of her as some kind of conceptual river spirit. I got the vibe she may be an embodiment of how the sound of water is the closest thing to the music of the Ainur brought to being, especially with how intrinsic singing seems to be to her character!
The one does not preclude the other.
Cant she not be both? Consider when Bombadil is joking about the one Ring. To him, it's a mere trifle. A toy of little consequence. And how when he put it on [for Tom put ON the one Ring] he didn't vanish from sight, and said and DEMONSTRATED to Frodo that he could see Frodo when Frodo had the ring on. Tom is both of the seen and the unseen, as much in one as in the other. More so even than any Elf of any stature.
Tom remarks on "catching" Goldberry, that "and her heart was a beating". Could it not be that he was delighted at finding a being much like he? That she is there, corporeally, yet also innately a spirit made flesh? A spirit that eventually became a living being. As though, just maybe, Eru was like "Oh go on then, live, have fun out there".
And then Tom Bombadil, who claims he is the "first" had a companion. One created initially just as a spirit of the prominent river in that region yet eventually became more.
I have always obeyed what Tolkien said. Accept them as mysteries.
Brilliant analysis, both scholarly and inspiring.
This whole passage of LotR is really fundamental to my enjoyment of the Legendarium. Thank you for your take on her literary purpose as well as her place in the ontology of Tolkiens mythology.
And my heart starts racing at the sight of a new GNG video. I'm prepared to be enlightened and slightly intimidated by levels of intelligence to which I can only aspire.
Nice work thanks
I've always wanted Goldberry to be the lost Nimrodel, sense be damned.
This is the best video about Goldberry/Tom ever done. For so many reasons.
Excellent food for (getting lost in) thought! As you teased out the subtle differences between Bombadil’s and Goldberry’s behavior, it occurred to me that Tom incessantly (seemingly without willing it) talks and sings in the same poetic meter, as though he were a fairly pure expression of a specific motif in the music of the Ainur - perhaps taking on a body and a name only because he likes interaction with nature and occasionally with other sentient folks.
Goldberry certainly can sing, but her songs seem to have a different quality of intentionality. Tom flows with things and occasionally employs some verbal tai chi to avoid drowning or injury; Goldberry understands the flows but also makes things happen on a larger scale (very consistent with the “Maia of Ulmo” hypothesis). And over the years they learn of each other’s ways, so that while still distinct from each other their views and purposes drift closer together over the years.
Dang, I’ve got to go make some progress on my fanfic now.
I love this theory. Just Tom Bombadil written as a song with a 'repeat from :' notatation at the end of the tune, under which are scribbled his many, many verses.
Goldberry's association with seasons also reminds me of Vana with her flowers and spring thing. Could we be dealing with a duel associated Maia like Olorin or something?
Amazing. I have so many theories about Goldberry now and a few more about Tom. I won’t burden you with them.
Goldberry as a daughter of the valar was always my belief and Tom is the first archetype "man" was also my thought . He stopped heading west when he met goldberry . The love of your life is more important than your life's journey , they become your life . Just my thoughts . Thank you for your site/ page ....
I do not know where Tom came from but I know where he went. In the 4th age he became a rapper with the name Tom daBombadil.