I think you were spot on in this one. Some really good insight about couples (or really close friends) backing each other up, and about the ones going into PF to prog on the side. I think you're totally right about raid leaders setting boundaries and expectations up front and managing the situation and comms throughout. Ultimately tho, I think the drama that blows up on this scale is with people who just have too much free time on their hands
i do think there comes a point where you need to take a step back and decide if it's really worth getting so worked up over. At the end of the day it IS a game and even if youre running for world first, there is no prize besides bragging rights, which is pretty hollow if you ask me. Maybe id understand more if people were competing for money but they arent. At some point you have to see the negative impact something has on you and decide if it's really worth it. Do you really want to become a toxic asshole with no friends over a raid in a game??
@@Aitherea I totally agree. I don't think it's worth it. But Asmongold did make a good point that there can be a monetary impact for some cause of sponsors, clicks on their vids/posts etc, for being world first. But for anyone else, like why (and for me even if it was for world first I wouldn't be an asshole to get there). But what you said now is really important imo. People should take a step back and reflect before replying. Sleep on it even. But we've gotten so used to replying fast. Don't even think, just react
@@idno4856 My friend told me it's very diff in WoW BECAUSE there are sponsors and theres a lot going on behind the scenes to get people where they are. But FFXIV doesnt have an official WF race like wow does... most of those ppl streaming WF for ffxiv probably dont even pull anywhere near the views of someone like Zepla or Mr Happy so Idk that there's much money involved in an FFXIV wf race xD Then again ive never bothered to watch a WF race cuz i just dont care, so maybe they get better numbers than i would imagine.
It has changed quite a bit recently, especially when the WoW guys came over. That's part of what allegedly pushed the Japanese team to cheat (well a couple of members). But you're right, it doesn't pull in the same numbers as WoW even today (even tho wow numbers are way down)
Those are my observations based on numbers I've seen and 2nd hand accounts. I'm not a raider and not part of that scene (and i played WoW for 7 mins and hated it hahaha)
Miscommunication is almost inevitable. You just gotta know it's part of the process and work through it with the ultimate goal of clearing. Problem is not everyone is on that same page and will get fixated on the petty stuff and forget about the main goal. This adheres to all walks of life whether it be work related or team related.
I get what you're saying and you're not wrong, but I don't think that miscommunication is inevitable. For sure you can say one thing and another will understand it differently than how you meant, but I think communication is not a one way street. There are things that can be done to ensure everyone is on the same page. Have people rephrase the plan in their own words, ask them questions to confirm their understanding, etc
I agree with all of this. Unfortunately drama caused by raiders also reaches outside of raiding. Really, like 8/10 times there's some drama around, the origin was a raider. My theory is that they are used to point the finger at things or people they think are not right and should adjust to them or what they think is the correct way. For some reason they think they are above the rest only because they clear content that in this game is consider hardcore, when in reality is a glorified rhythm game where you need 7 other people to clear. I've seen them call 'casuals' in this game baby gamers because they don't clear savage+ content and some of these 'casuals' or 'baby gamers' do 100% solo level 1 clears on Souls games xD
@@anteprs7908 they openly show disdain for the rest of the community, they seem to forget without the rest of the community they don't have a game to play...If they had it there way they would have everyone pay for the game and not be able to play it at all.
Couples enabling are some of the most unpleasant experiences I've ever had. One of them even said “I get triggered by people that have receipts of conversations.” Big crimson flag to not be able to reference to previous conversations. I'm glad my friends generally aren't down to enable bad behavior and try to be as fair as possible. We all call each other out (thought constructively as possible) if we've done something wrong and we generally own up to it as well
one of my friends was in a group where the raid leader had a uhh flirtationship (i think they werent together yet but liked eachother??) with one of the other members. Well, that other member was such a flake and got away with being rude, unprepared, and dipping without much of a heads up all because the raid leader had feelings for him. I was out here like Y I K E S.
@@Aitherea oh dear thats unfortunate, it sucks dealing with such crappy people like this with no regard to their teammates. well cheers to us peeps being with healthy statics and actively avoiding others like that!
Drama happens coz being able to kill pixels in a game becomes their whole identity, and when it gets threatened, oh boy. They feel they are some top shit in a game and act all elitist and look down on others in game coz they have deep insecurity about themselves in real life.
I’ve heard it described similarly to road rage, the people have no control over their own lives, so in whatever way they can try to control others, driving slowly on the road to hold people up, or being a shithead in raids and bossing people around. It makes me glad in 14’s case there’s normal raiding and then the endgame stuff that you don’t even have to participate in, and I’ll take a casual run of raid content over this static nonsense.
Ah! its like everyother end game end game MMO where some people will take the end game content way too serious! The main problem is the selfish player who only thinks about themselves, will manipulate their team and harras anyone who tries to give them constructive criticism. These people don't care who they hurt, all they want is to prove how good they are by min-maxing in the game and getting all the loot. Sadly this is way too common!
and when they are gotten BIS and min-maxed they leave out for months at a time for raid content in other games, That is why they should be called fly-by-night raiders and not "Hard Core Raiders" because they are some really good raiders out there that do not behave like that unforchantly they are lumped in with the problem children. Also can we instead call the "hard core Raiders" "fly-by-night raiders" because they only show up for new raid content and leave once it is done, they dont stay around and only leach off the community and provide nothing (legitimate) of value, other than disdain, stress, and drama...
And unfortunately, there are people like me who sometimes cannot understand the mechs that much no matter how much I try. I had a TIA so that greatly impacted my cognitive and comprehension thinking. Thanks brain lol!!
i haven't done savages since the eden ones but i remember meeting a crazy amount of tanks in party finder that just had the biggest egos it was the worst. its like they think being main tank makes them the leader of the raid or something
Heh, I was typing out the exact same thing you said here :D Yeah, be careful with want kind of static you join. If its a tightknit friend group, stay clear. But all of this advise is useless after the effect. From what I understand is that Wave was not only new to raiding but to FF14 in general :( This is the worst kind of introduction into raiding. I dont blame Rin and his group outright, but they should've been honest about what kind of environment they provide - and apparently this never happened: the many failed trials showed this. And since they dont seem to bother with improving themselves... well, best of luck to them. As for Wave, I think he'll do fine: many statics would call themselves luck to have a healer with his mindset...
Its interesting because Wave literally was like "ill just play with my friends." Some people know that playing with friends is not a good idea because of skill issues xD Unfortunately, some friends, lovely as they are as people, just suck at this game! So they will hold you back and it can end up hurting the relationship if you have to kick them from the group. So, I think raiding with friends is something you have to do with caution and maybe be okay with going at the pace of the weakest link.
@@Aitherea Sad but true, yeah... Raiding in any game demands certain skill and disciplin, in short: professionalism. I think, 90% of raid drama is simply the collision of expectations and a lack of honesty.
used to raid a lot in wow and some in ffxiv and the topics you stated are why i dont raid anymore in games people dragging down or dealings with people's ego's especially the parse monkies XD
Aitherea my beloved ♥️ Im glad i don't get in much drama, i enjoy my peace!
Рік тому+2
I think a lot of it comes down to building Statics on the wrong basis AND it is night impossible not to - You never know how a static works out before you hit a brick wall... It is more than just skill - it is a combination of skill, personality, trust (for the criticism) and expectation. If the expectation of how the static should work, how criticism should be handled and how to deal with the fact that sometimes even the most hardcore of hardcore raiders can have a shitty day it might sooner or later implode.
On the point of doing pf practice outside of the static. Even for the people who aren't doing it, it puts pressure on them to perform better as they now have people who perhaps even has cleared in the group. It's no longer a group who are trying to clear together, it's a group where some people are trying to not waste the time of the ones who have cleared who now have 0 reason to be in the static anymore besides some thin sense of responsibility. It damages the group cohesion and can even diminish the fun for either side.
Drama is why I don't associate with the high end raiding community at large. I have a static and if we don't run content, I don't do party finder. My overall experience in this game has been much better for it and I've been able to complete savage and ultimate just fine. Definitely had to kiss a lot of frogs to get to that point though but when you find a quality group of friends, socializing beyond that seems vastly overrated. Some of it also has to do with knowing your own limits. People think they're "hardcore" progression until they join one that is truly hardcore. Then they find out their schedule isn't compatible with 12+hrs of wiping to the same handful of mechanics or being called out on every mistake and coached on how to optimize their class in a particular scenario. Some of these people are Excel spreadsheet nerds who have an unfathomable amount of time to invest in raiding. Just because a casual or "midcore" group feels like it's moving too slow for you does NOT necessarily mean you're a hardcore progression raider. Lurking around party finder to join groups closer to the finish line is not even remotely close to the same experience.
I don't raid, but I do have story to tell you. A friend mine does savage raiding and with a now ex friend of theirs, (we will call this ex friend white mage) who was hot and cold about raiding in a toxic way... Basically at the start or a new raid, he would be like "Chill, who cares if we don't clear immediately, we're a casual group." - to then getting clears through PF and shrugging off the static group going "wtf white mage?" and like you said, would have this sudden change in expectations with the static because he got the clear while the static is still progging. He would then start talk crap about the static behind their back for not getting the clears fast enough and "slowing him down", being condescending and then became a giant man baby when his behavior was called out. Long story short White Mage lost both a static and friends because of his behavior. Not that he will admit it, since according to him "Everyone but me has no chill."
Can't comment on my experience raiding with others. So far, I just brute forced earlier savage raids solo with high level gear, but I am concerned about it once I get to the more recent savage/extreme raids that I can't do on my own (Shadowbringer and newer). Before starting XIV, I asked my friends if they want to play it with me. They didn't, stating the need for rotations as their reason. The games they usually play have rotations, too, but oh well. Maybe it's for the better, one of them always complained that the meta dealt no damage and that his own version was way better when he had no idea how to play the meta. Teaching him to do mechanics and his rotation would be hard and exactly what you described in the video: How to call out a friend on being wrong without causing drama? That's hard. So now I need to find some other people to raid with me later on and I don't know if I have the commitment for a static. Maybe I should just join one of these FCs with 100s or 1000s of members that constantly send invites to others randomly. No one will miss me if I choose to go awol there. Or I'll do it in PF.
PF raiding is always an option. It can be rough but I'd suggest going with at least one person who you enjoy spending time with/who you know is a decent player. Then you can hang out in discord and figure out the raids together and help one another. There are also varying levels of commitment and skill levels for statics. It's def tough to navigate cuz you kind of never know what you're gonna get in terms of personalities, but when possible it can be good for statics to do trial runs together before the new raids drop (basically you go in synced to some raids and see how everyone vibes).
@@Aitherea That's an issue, then, the only person I know in XIV is not in the same region I am. I'd have to transfer my character over to the US data centers and hope my lag is not too bad for higher difficulty content. Other than that, I treated XIV as a single player game that just happens to have an online mode. I don't actually know anyone in my region (Europe), we just cleared content together and then left.
@@Aitherea Of that I'm sure. Finding a nice FC would work as well. Alright, off to Limsa it is for that Extreme Raid Progression FC ;). No, not really, but I should try to socialize a bit more in the game.
The outside perception that the game is not toxic and everything leading up to them trying Savage/Ultimates paints a misleading picture that raiding will be the same... then you have the third party tools that allow people to see everything about what happened and possibly cheat while turning their nose up at other players legitimately playing and on top of that a development crew who is actively against damage meters despite designing every encounter to be a damage check. Recipe for drama Ultimate haha.
Ahh yep. Raiders. From GW2 to WoW, the reason I avoid raiding in almost every MMO is because it's like the PvE version of PvP. I forget which MMO it was, but I ran into a raider using a third-party DPS checking tool in the dungeon. He complimented my DPS for being "higher" than it was supposed to be, or something. I blocked and reported him. I feel like this demographic is the same as the twitter drama demographic (I don't use twitter either XD). Some individuals are extremely negative. I feel as though those individuals flock together. "Birds of a feather" and all, and that they end up as raiders and PvPers in most MMOs.
Raiding is really a mixed bag. I had really great raiding experiences, but i also have plenty of friends who could tell you some stories lol. As for the dps meter, it's called ACT, and I would say for the most part the playerbase is fine with it being used as long as it is for personal use only and not weaponized against other players. It's used in tandem with FFlogs and sometimes people will deny others entry to a static due after looking at FFlogs. Overall, i think the tool ACT is harmless, it's just how SOME players use it that isn't the greatest. I have plenty of friends who use it but they dont talk about other people's damage unless asked, and that's what the etiquette should be.
Last time I'm doing the latest EX trial with one friend and 6 random people. I thought that my friend sign up to a gruop that tries to done that trial not to a Group that farming a Mount. I don't know how to do mechanic with numbers and a teter (my friend told me how to do it, but I must read it myself to under stand it :D) So I wiped our party like 3 times,and then someone write me what to do, and for 4th time we done it, but I feel So he King bad that I waste the Group time... Maybe it's not savage or Ultimate, but EX trial is pretty High for me, so that's my story. Never gonna do something again until I'm sure that I'm prepered. What I mean is I Just waste the time of people. And that's why there might be people that are frustrated about how much players like me are out there. Just don't repeat my mistakes guys :D
That poor guy Wave sounded like he was a lot to lose his emotions. And yeah, Dice WAS wasting mana on “healing” NOTHING. I guess that is because parsing numbers. Jesus I joined this game to get away fro WoW…..and it comes back. I’m just glad I stopped raiding.
I'm with you on this. I'm a very sensitive person I cried myself to sleep once just bc someone told me that I could be doing a lot better I can't take criticism well at all I'm as squishy as a marshmallow
"Why is there drama in raiding communities" 8 sweatlords myself included meet up to take on the hardest challenge the game has to offer. Hours ruined because someone wasn't paying attention. Nights with no prog because people were late/cant show. "Can we do anything about it" No, its the human condition to want to place blame. When you get in a static and schedule hours of free time for 2-3 days a week its inevitable. Its apart of raiding and if you don't like it then there is no helping that. Qualifications -- Raided since Everquest back in 1999.
A lot of those are raiders from WoW coming over, and bringing their habits with them. You don't see this in the 'normal' player's game in XIV, though. WoW you can see this crap from leveling all the way up to mythic.
Lol, get 8 people trying to do anything together, which they have to cooperate to accomplish, and it will be interesting 🤣. My static is super cool and chill. But damn, when I go for tuesday morning reclears, you find some people who got opinions, lol. Like the last one, where I was a bit too slow on R5 (first pull), got clipped by the baits. Heal didn't go off, I hesitated. My fault? 100%. I owned up to it. Did I need to get the "come on people?!?! Stop wasting everyone's time!" Probably not, since it was a second pull clear. But, were they wrong? Not exactly. My ego told me they were, but really, yeah, I'm definitely better than that. But, you know, maybe get mad 3rd, 4th, 5th pull, instead of first. But still, hopping in a 625 ilvl quick reclear group, everyone should know what they're doing. Still, I didn't join their P6S reclear group 🤣
the answer is simple raider do hardcore content they thing becuase they clear it it mean they are gods and cant be wrong (not al raiders of course ) but with any challnaging content it sadly breed ego in most raiders .the isue with riders is that often they thing that raiding is the hardest content in any game but it isnt pvp is true skill grow from instant ability to adebt to any situation in a raid the boss will always do the sme things unless you f up badly but pvp is pure ability to adebt oyu dont know the mind of the other player what moves he will pull that why i always say the most toxic mmos player are pvpers but they do have the skill to complain at least.
Why? It's because people have a conflict of interests. Not everyone can agree on something, and it goes the same for real life. That doesn't mean that there aren't good out of joining a group though, it may not be for you or it might be...you never know till you try and join :P
Rin has always been a problem child of the community no one in there right mind respects him or his tag-a-long Dice, which Dice alone has a known history of being a troll and sabatoging savage raids on PF. Besides Rin and Dice and the rest of that subcommunity are fly-by-night raiders, only shows up for new raid content and leave for WoW or other games to raid once they are done raiding in FFxiv and pretends to be an authoritative figure.TBH alot of the "Hard core" raiding subcommunity are like that as well...The "Hard Core" raiding subcommunity don't provide anything of value they only take and create stress and drama for everyone else...They should not be treated with respect since all the problems stems from that subcommunity, the cheating,the drama, and yes the highchair drama as well comes from them as well. So I wouldn't be surprised if Yoshi-P stops making content catered for those outliers and stops listening to them alltogether. one common phrase they say alot is "this game is dead" is code which means "We will not play this game unless you submit to our demands" So SE needs to stop catering to these outliers so SE can produce something better product for the rest of the playerbase why should SE focus all these attention of Raid content? Because the "Hard Core Raiders" are trying to reproduce what they did in WoW to FFxiv...and look how that turned out for WoW, can't play the game at all unless you have a ton of addons (3rd party software) and any content outside of raiding is total garbage because Blizz listened to them...
I had a really pleasant experience with the midcore group I was with! Everyone was chill, we owned up to our mistakes, no one got mad if we asked if so and so did xyz. We all knew we were just trying to figure out what went wrong so we could improve, so no one took it personally. So yeah, i feel like it doesnt have to be but I am told it is rare to find a group that clicks as well as we did!
That's a nice dream but ffxiv made it really annoying to run stuff like Panda without some sort of static because of the rolling. I get they want the Raiding to be harder to get, but it's more stress on the entire team for the chests.
I get what you mean, but I think NA just gets more coverage cause there are more steamers and content creators in NA. We've seen recently that drama happens in other regions as well
The ones the cause the drama in NA are the same ones that cause drama in other MMOrpg's what do other communities do with them...most of the time they ignore them as they are only a small part of the community and they are told most of the time by the devs to STFU and play the game...
"Hard Core Raiders" are not the best players in this game or genre since they do no do any other content (or if they do they speed run it) just raid content.and are reliant of others to produce the food and potions they need to clear the content...funny how they hate the rest of the community but yet they need us for food and pots...Also this is not the only game they cause drama in they do this to every game that has raid content in, but unlike WoW & FFxiv other games communities tell them to STFU and they do.
I think you were spot on in this one. Some really good insight about couples (or really close friends) backing each other up, and about the ones going into PF to prog on the side. I think you're totally right about raid leaders setting boundaries and expectations up front and managing the situation and comms throughout. Ultimately tho, I think the drama that blows up on this scale is with people who just have too much free time on their hands
i do think there comes a point where you need to take a step back and decide if it's really worth getting so worked up over. At the end of the day it IS a game and even if youre running for world first, there is no prize besides bragging rights, which is pretty hollow if you ask me. Maybe id understand more if people were competing for money but they arent. At some point you have to see the negative impact something has on you and decide if it's really worth it. Do you really want to become a toxic asshole with no friends over a raid in a game??
@@Aitherea I totally agree. I don't think it's worth it. But Asmongold did make a good point that there can be a monetary impact for some cause of sponsors, clicks on their vids/posts etc, for being world first. But for anyone else, like why (and for me even if it was for world first I wouldn't be an asshole to get there). But what you said now is really important imo. People should take a step back and reflect before replying. Sleep on it even. But we've gotten so used to replying fast. Don't even think, just react
@@idno4856 My friend told me it's very diff in WoW BECAUSE there are sponsors and theres a lot going on behind the scenes to get people where they are. But FFXIV doesnt have an official WF race like wow does... most of those ppl streaming WF for ffxiv probably dont even pull anywhere near the views of someone like Zepla or Mr Happy so Idk that there's much money involved in an FFXIV wf race xD Then again ive never bothered to watch a WF race cuz i just dont care, so maybe they get better numbers than i would imagine.
It has changed quite a bit recently, especially when the WoW guys came over. That's part of what allegedly pushed the Japanese team to cheat (well a couple of members). But you're right, it doesn't pull in the same numbers as WoW even today (even tho wow numbers are way down)
Those are my observations based on numbers I've seen and 2nd hand accounts. I'm not a raider and not part of that scene (and i played WoW for 7 mins and hated it hahaha)
Miscommunication is almost inevitable. You just gotta know it's part of the process and work through it with the ultimate goal of clearing. Problem is not everyone is on that same page and will get fixated on the petty stuff and forget about the main goal.
This adheres to all walks of life whether it be work related or team related.
I get what you're saying and you're not wrong, but I don't think that miscommunication is inevitable. For sure you can say one thing and another will understand it differently than how you meant, but I think communication is not a one way street. There are things that can be done to ensure everyone is on the same page. Have people rephrase the plan in their own words, ask them questions to confirm their understanding, etc
I agree with all of this.
Unfortunately drama caused by raiders also reaches outside of raiding. Really, like 8/10 times there's some drama around, the origin was a raider. My theory is that they are used to point the finger at things or people they think are not right and should adjust to them or what they think is the correct way.
For some reason they think they are above the rest only because they clear content that in this game is consider hardcore, when in reality is a glorified rhythm game where you need 7 other people to clear. I've seen them call 'casuals' in this game baby gamers because they don't clear savage+ content and some of these 'casuals' or 'baby gamers' do 100% solo level 1 clears on Souls games xD
fact my freind all of it a ton of ffxiv player also havea weird hateboner for casuals.
@@anteprs7908 they openly show disdain for the rest of the community, they seem to forget without the rest of the community they don't have a game to play...If they had it there way they would have everyone pay for the game and not be able to play it at all.
Couples enabling are some of the most unpleasant experiences I've ever had. One of them even said “I get triggered by people that have receipts of conversations.” Big crimson flag to not be able to reference to previous conversations. I'm glad my friends generally aren't down to enable bad behavior and try to be as fair as possible. We all call each other out (thought constructively as possible) if we've done something wrong and we generally own up to it as well
one of my friends was in a group where the raid leader had a uhh flirtationship (i think they werent together yet but liked eachother??) with one of the other members. Well, that other member was such a flake and got away with being rude, unprepared, and dipping without much of a heads up all because the raid leader had feelings for him. I was out here like Y I K E S.
We had something similar, but it was more like, if one of the couple wasnt available (work, sick, you name it) the other peaced out, too -.-
@@Aitherea oh dear thats unfortunate, it sucks dealing with such crappy people like this with no regard to their teammates. well cheers to us peeps being with healthy statics and actively avoiding others like that!
Drama happens coz being able to kill pixels in a game becomes their whole identity, and when it gets threatened, oh boy. They feel they are some top shit in a game and act all elitist and look down on others in game coz they have deep insecurity about themselves in real life.
I’ve heard it described similarly to road rage, the people have no control over their own lives, so in whatever way they can try to control others, driving slowly on the road to hold people up, or being a shithead in raids and bossing people around.
It makes me glad in 14’s case there’s normal raiding and then the endgame stuff that you don’t even have to participate in, and I’ll take a casual run of raid content over this static nonsense.
Ah! its like everyother end game end game MMO where some people will take the end game content way too serious!
The main problem is the selfish player who only thinks about themselves, will manipulate their team and harras anyone who tries to give them constructive criticism. These people don't care who they hurt, all they want is to prove how good they are by min-maxing in the game and getting all the loot. Sadly this is way too common!
fact
and when they are gotten BIS and min-maxed they leave out for months at a time for raid content in other games, That is why they should be called fly-by-night raiders and not "Hard Core Raiders" because they are some really good raiders out there that do not behave like that unforchantly they are lumped in with the problem children. Also can we instead call the "hard core Raiders" "fly-by-night raiders" because they only show up for new raid content and leave once it is done, they dont stay around and only leach off the community and provide nothing (legitimate) of value, other than disdain, stress, and drama...
And unfortunately, there are people like me who sometimes cannot understand the mechs that much no matter how much I try. I had a TIA so that greatly impacted my cognitive and comprehension thinking. Thanks brain lol!!
i haven't done savages since the eden ones but i remember meeting a crazy amount of tanks in party finder that just had the biggest egos it was the worst. its like they think being main tank makes them the leader of the raid or something
Heh, I was typing out the exact same thing you said here :D Yeah, be careful with want kind of static you join. If its a tightknit friend group, stay clear. But all of this advise is useless after the effect. From what I understand is that Wave was not only new to raiding but to FF14 in general :( This is the worst kind of introduction into raiding. I dont blame Rin and his group outright, but they should've been honest about what kind of environment they provide - and apparently this never happened: the many failed trials showed this. And since they dont seem to bother with improving themselves... well, best of luck to them. As for Wave, I think he'll do fine: many statics would call themselves luck to have a healer with his mindset...
Its interesting because Wave literally was like "ill just play with my friends." Some people know that playing with friends is not a good idea because of skill issues xD Unfortunately, some friends, lovely as they are as people, just suck at this game! So they will hold you back and it can end up hurting the relationship if you have to kick them from the group. So, I think raiding with friends is something you have to do with caution and maybe be okay with going at the pace of the weakest link.
@Aitherea I think this goes to what you were saying about communication and setting expectations and objectives at the start.
@@Aitherea Sad but true, yeah... Raiding in any game demands certain skill and disciplin, in short: professionalism. I think, 90% of raid drama is simply the collision of expectations and a lack of honesty.
@@markup6394 you mean alot of them cheat to attain...
used to raid a lot in wow and some in ffxiv and the topics you stated are why i dont raid anymore in games people dragging down or dealings with people's ego's especially the parse monkies XD
Aitherea my beloved ♥️
Im glad i don't get in much drama, i enjoy my peace!
I think a lot of it comes down to building Statics on the wrong basis AND it is night impossible not to - You never know how a static works out before you hit a brick wall... It is more than just skill - it is a combination of skill, personality, trust (for the criticism) and expectation.
If the expectation of how the static should work, how criticism should be handled and how to deal with the fact that sometimes even the most hardcore of hardcore raiders can have a shitty day it might sooner or later implode.
On the point of doing pf practice outside of the static. Even for the people who aren't doing it, it puts pressure on them to perform better as they now have people who perhaps even has cleared in the group. It's no longer a group who are trying to clear together, it's a group where some people are trying to not waste the time of the ones who have cleared who now have 0 reason to be in the static anymore besides some thin sense of responsibility. It damages the group cohesion and can even diminish the fun for either side.
Drama is why I don't associate with the high end raiding community at large. I have a static and if we don't run content, I don't do party finder. My overall experience in this game has been much better for it and I've been able to complete savage and ultimate just fine. Definitely had to kiss a lot of frogs to get to that point though but when you find a quality group of friends, socializing beyond that seems vastly overrated.
Some of it also has to do with knowing your own limits. People think they're "hardcore" progression until they join one that is truly hardcore. Then they find out their schedule isn't compatible with 12+hrs of wiping to the same handful of mechanics or being called out on every mistake and coached on how to optimize their class in a particular scenario. Some of these people are Excel spreadsheet nerds who have an unfathomable amount of time to invest in raiding. Just because a casual or "midcore" group feels like it's moving too slow for you does NOT necessarily mean you're a hardcore progression raider. Lurking around party finder to join groups closer to the finish line is not even remotely close to the same experience.
I don't raid, but I do have story to tell you. A friend mine does savage raiding and with a now ex friend of theirs, (we will call this ex friend white mage) who was hot and cold about raiding in a toxic way... Basically at the start or a new raid, he would be like "Chill, who cares if we don't clear immediately, we're a casual group." - to then getting clears through PF and shrugging off the static group going "wtf white mage?" and like you said, would have this sudden change in expectations with the static because he got the clear while the static is still progging. He would then start talk crap about the static behind their back for not getting the clears fast enough and "slowing him down", being condescending and then became a giant man baby when his behavior was called out. Long story short White Mage lost both a static and friends because of his behavior. Not that he will admit it, since according to him "Everyone but me has no chill."
Can't comment on my experience raiding with others. So far, I just brute forced earlier savage raids solo with high level gear, but I am concerned about it once I get to the more recent savage/extreme raids that I can't do on my own (Shadowbringer and newer). Before starting XIV, I asked my friends if they want to play it with me. They didn't, stating the need for rotations as their reason. The games they usually play have rotations, too, but oh well.
Maybe it's for the better, one of them always complained that the meta dealt no damage and that his own version was way better when he had no idea how to play the meta. Teaching him to do mechanics and his rotation would be hard and exactly what you described in the video: How to call out a friend on being wrong without causing drama? That's hard.
So now I need to find some other people to raid with me later on and I don't know if I have the commitment for a static. Maybe I should just join one of these FCs with 100s or 1000s of members that constantly send invites to others randomly. No one will miss me if I choose to go awol there. Or I'll do it in PF.
PF raiding is always an option. It can be rough but I'd suggest going with at least one person who you enjoy spending time with/who you know is a decent player. Then you can hang out in discord and figure out the raids together and help one another. There are also varying levels of commitment and skill levels for statics. It's def tough to navigate cuz you kind of never know what you're gonna get in terms of personalities, but when possible it can be good for statics to do trial runs together before the new raids drop (basically you go in synced to some raids and see how everyone vibes).
@@Aitherea That's an issue, then, the only person I know in XIV is not in the same region I am. I'd have to transfer my character over to the US data centers and hope my lag is not too bad for higher difficulty content. Other than that, I treated XIV as a single player game that just happens to have an online mode. I don't actually know anyone in my region (Europe), we just cleared content together and then left.
@@Viech54 well you can still do pf alone. I just think having a friend helps keep you sane and makes it more fun.
@@Aitherea Of that I'm sure. Finding a nice FC would work as well. Alright, off to Limsa it is for that Extreme Raid Progression FC ;). No, not really, but I should try to socialize a bit more in the game.
The outside perception that the game is not toxic and everything leading up to them trying Savage/Ultimates paints a misleading picture that raiding will be the same... then you have the third party tools that allow people to see everything about what happened and possibly cheat while turning their nose up at other players legitimately playing and on top of that a development crew who is actively against damage meters despite designing every encounter to be a damage check. Recipe for drama Ultimate haha.
You spilled my Tea already
Ahh yep. Raiders. From GW2 to WoW, the reason I avoid raiding in almost every MMO is because it's like the PvE version of PvP. I forget which MMO it was, but I ran into a raider using a third-party DPS checking tool in the dungeon. He complimented my DPS for being "higher" than it was supposed to be, or something. I blocked and reported him. I feel like this demographic is the same as the twitter drama demographic (I don't use twitter either XD). Some individuals are extremely negative. I feel as though those individuals flock together. "Birds of a feather" and all, and that they end up as raiders and PvPers in most MMOs.
Raiding is really a mixed bag. I had really great raiding experiences, but i also have plenty of friends who could tell you some stories lol. As for the dps meter, it's called ACT, and I would say for the most part the playerbase is fine with it being used as long as it is for personal use only and not weaponized against other players. It's used in tandem with FFlogs and sometimes people will deny others entry to a static due after looking at FFlogs. Overall, i think the tool ACT is harmless, it's just how SOME players use it that isn't the greatest. I have plenty of friends who use it but they dont talk about other people's damage unless asked, and that's what the etiquette should be.
Last time I'm doing the latest EX trial with one friend and 6 random people.
I thought that my friend sign up to a gruop that tries to done that trial not to a Group that farming a Mount.
I don't know how to do mechanic with numbers and a teter (my friend told me how to do it, but I must read it myself to under stand it :D) So I wiped our party like 3 times,and then someone write me what to do, and for 4th time we done it, but I feel So he King bad that I waste the Group time...
Maybe it's not savage or Ultimate, but EX trial is pretty High for me, so that's my story. Never gonna do something again until I'm sure that I'm prepered.
What I mean is I Just waste the time of people. And that's why there might be people that are frustrated about how much players like me are out there. Just don't repeat my mistakes guys :D
(Before watching)
People are often toxic because what they are so ardently defending or attacking is related to their own fragile ego.
That poor guy Wave sounded like he was a lot to lose his emotions. And yeah, Dice WAS wasting mana on “healing” NOTHING. I guess that is because parsing numbers. Jesus I joined this game to get away fro WoW…..and it comes back. I’m just glad I stopped raiding.
I'm with you on this. I'm a very sensitive person I cried myself to sleep once just bc someone told me that I could be doing a lot better I can't take criticism well at all I'm as squishy as a marshmallow
"Why is there drama in raiding communities" 8 sweatlords myself included meet up to take on the hardest challenge the game has to offer. Hours ruined because someone wasn't paying attention. Nights with no prog because people were late/cant show.
"Can we do anything about it" No, its the human condition to want to place blame. When you get in a static and schedule hours of free time for 2-3 days a week its inevitable.
Its apart of raiding and if you don't like it then there is no helping that.
Qualifications -- Raided since Everquest back in 1999.
A lot of those are raiders from WoW coming over, and bringing their habits with them. You don't see this in the 'normal' player's game in XIV, though. WoW you can see this crap from leveling all the way up to mythic.
Lol, get 8 people trying to do anything together, which they have to cooperate to accomplish, and it will be interesting 🤣.
My static is super cool and chill. But damn, when I go for tuesday morning reclears, you find some people who got opinions, lol.
Like the last one, where I was a bit too slow on R5 (first pull), got clipped by the baits. Heal didn't go off, I hesitated. My fault? 100%. I owned up to it. Did I need to get the "come on people?!?! Stop wasting everyone's time!" Probably not, since it was a second pull clear.
But, were they wrong? Not exactly. My ego told me they were, but really, yeah, I'm definitely better than that. But, you know, maybe get mad 3rd, 4th, 5th pull, instead of first. But still, hopping in a 625 ilvl quick reclear group, everyone should know what they're doing.
Still, I didn't join their P6S reclear group 🤣
This is why I haven't been in a FC for six months.
the answer is simple raider do hardcore content they thing becuase they clear it it mean they are gods and cant be wrong (not al raiders of course ) but with any challnaging content it sadly breed ego in most raiders .the isue with riders is that often they thing that raiding is the hardest content in any game but it isnt pvp is true skill grow from instant ability to adebt to any situation in a raid the boss will always do the sme things unless you f up badly but pvp is pure ability to adebt oyu dont know the mind of the other player what moves he will pull that why i always say the most toxic mmos player are pvpers but they do have the skill to complain at least.
One word, stress
Why? It's because people have a conflict of interests. Not everyone can agree on something, and it goes the same for real life. That doesn't mean that there aren't good out of joining a group though, it may not be for you or it might be...you never know till you try and join :P
Rin has always been a problem child of the community no one in there right mind respects him or his tag-a-long Dice, which Dice alone has a known history of being a troll and sabatoging savage raids on PF. Besides Rin and Dice and the rest of that subcommunity are fly-by-night raiders, only shows up for new raid content and leave for WoW or other games to raid once they are done raiding in FFxiv and pretends to be an authoritative figure.TBH alot of the "Hard core" raiding subcommunity are like that as well...The "Hard Core" raiding subcommunity don't provide anything of value they only take and create stress and drama for everyone else...They should not be treated with respect since all the problems stems from that subcommunity, the cheating,the drama, and yes the highchair drama as well comes from them as well. So I wouldn't be surprised if Yoshi-P stops making content catered for those outliers and stops listening to them alltogether. one common phrase they say alot is "this game is dead" is code which means "We will not play this game unless you submit to our demands" So SE needs to stop catering to these outliers so SE can produce something better product for the rest of the playerbase why should SE focus all these attention of Raid content? Because the "Hard Core Raiders" are trying to reproduce what they did in WoW to FFxiv...and look how that turned out for WoW, can't play the game at all unless you have a ton of addons (3rd party software) and any content outside of raiding is total garbage because Blizz listened to them...
To be honest, I don’t fucking know. Lmfao
It honestly don’t have to be.
I had a really pleasant experience with the midcore group I was with! Everyone was chill, we owned up to our mistakes, no one got mad if we asked if so and so did xyz. We all knew we were just trying to figure out what went wrong so we could improve, so no one took it personally. So yeah, i feel like it doesnt have to be but I am told it is rare to find a group that clicks as well as we did!
You shouldn't raid with friends if you want to clear the fight. You need to raid with disposable people.
That's a nice dream but ffxiv made it really annoying to run stuff like Panda without some sort of static because of the rolling. I get they want the Raiding to be harder to get, but it's more stress on the entire team for the chests.
Short answer. Japanese only take perfection.
NA drama*
It's always NA with their boring drama
I get what you mean, but I think NA just gets more coverage cause there are more steamers and content creators in NA. We've seen recently that drama happens in other regions as well
The ones the cause the drama in NA are the same ones that cause drama in other MMOrpg's what do other communities do with them...most of the time they ignore them as they are only a small part of the community and they are told most of the time by the devs to STFU and play the game...
Oh. This is familiar xD
"Hard Core Raiders" are not the best players in this game or genre since they do no do any other content (or if they do they speed run it) just raid content.and are reliant of others to produce the food and potions they need to clear the content...funny how they hate the rest of the community but yet they need us for food and pots...Also this is not the only game they cause drama in they do this to every game that has raid content in, but unlike WoW & FFxiv other games communities tell them to STFU and they do.