Saudi Arabian GP Talking Points | Too Dangerous?
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- Опубліковано 9 чер 2024
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Talking points from the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix including F1's new raceability, the dangers of the track and the politics of where we go racing.
#F1 #Formula1
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Twitter: / chainbear
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Will do. Right after you admit you haven’t actually read the “hideous” Florida House Bill 1557.
@@blakebarone1809 👍
The big problem with Jeddah is that it's a regular circuit pretending to be a street track to get away with not having runoffs or adequate safety. You can't build a perfectly smooth racetrack purposely for 1 specific race and then call it a street track, it's just bullshit.
Also the tunnels of catch fencing are hideous and disorienting.
part of it is actually on what used to be a street, so in some way it is a street circuit
@@BolosYT So was Spa and we're not calling that a street circuit.
Monaco gets resurfaced every year days before the race happens. Calling any modern F1 track a "street track" is a misnomer at best.
@@BolosYT alignment chart: nurburgring norchliffe is a street circuit
It was crazy difficult to follow especially during the first few sessions. The camera angles were almost at car height so all you saw was panning shot of cars either blasting through a turn or blasting through a straight. I didn't really learn the track at all during the weekend, after each change to a different driver from a different part of track I was lost at where we are in relation to the previous driver shown. Extremely disorienting, I hope we never see that track again.
"I don't know about Vegas, everyone that goes there never says anything" 😂😂
Nothing happened in Las Vegas
Just don't google Las Vegas Raiders 2021 season.
The racing problem is Jeddah was rushed in as a ‘temporary track’ on a piece of land that one day will be too valuable for a racetrack, but it now seems it’ll be here for a few more years. The FIA has done more than hand wave its safety rules for “the fastest street circuit in the world” and allowed some very 1980s barrier solutions to be used. The concrete walls need to go, the cost is not an issue here.
Jeddah has decade long contract. Not a few more years...unfortunately.
@@emanuelemattianava9147 I'm guessing that Russia had contract too.
@@philspencelayh5464 yes and next year it was supposed to move to saint petersburg updated track. Which should be way better than sochi. I guess that russian races will be skipped for a while though
@@emanuelemattianava9147 no, there is a long contract, but it is not for Jeddah. The Saudi GP was supposed to move to a new, purpose-built circuit (that reminded a lot of Spa apparently) in Qiddiya for 2023, but I heard there were some delays, so 2024 is more likely
@@splatbeef74 thanks for the clarification, i'll look it up. Seems like good news. At least it will be hard to worsen the situation track wise
Thankyou for mentioning Yemen, in all the "interviews" the only human rights issues that were brought up were internal ones. Oh and Nauru, top job!
Well nobody wanted or barely mention external issue ones because if it is, so many countries would get trapped like UK and US, who intervened in so many places and have their own so many human rights issue
Anyone else find it a bit hypocritical that F1 races in Saudi but not Russia?
I've been looking it up but I can't find any information about it, what is happening between Australia and nauru?? I really wanna learn about it
@@lostalone9320 Ummm...you realise Russia is majority white and christian, right?
@@TierNoneOperator Saudi is backed by America, they ain’t doing no war crimes like those pesky Russians
if you don’t believe some, search “Obama Kunduz Hospital” for you to see how america and Saudi Arabia do honest god work on all of the Middle East 🙏🙏
Jeddah in many ways turned into the Nikita Mazepin of tracks. Well, except the racing was good.
And it actually managed a second season
Its still a dangerous shit circuit.
All thanks to the new regs, pretty sure even Valencia would make for a decent race at the very start of a new set of rules.
@@Crazy___Ginger Hopefully more modifications will be made in future for this track...
Absolutly a death trap. 150 mph semi blind corners with no run off space what could go wrong?
Just a matter of time before there is a truly bad incident if modifications aren’t done to this circuit.
Notice how it was only the amateur drivers who don’t deserve an F1 seat who crashed. The ones that actually are capable of performing did just fine.
Perhaps it’s the nepotism and bribery in driver selection that needs to be dealt with.
@@frederikbrandt424 that attitude is probably what eventually led to Senna’s death. All drivers should be respected regardless of skill and also protected .
@@pucs82 This isn’t pillow fighting, they all know the risks of F1. If you don’t have the capabilities to drive a city track then find another sport. The cars are pretty much safer than a nuclear bunker at this point, nothing like back in Sennas time.
@@frederikbrandt424 you missed the point completely. You’ll say it’s the driver’s fault for ending up in a crash due to their skill level rather than track design until a driver you revere gets significantly injured or dies on that track. Other drivers nearly got caught out on the same portion of track that Mick did. It’s just a matter of time before someone seriously injured themselves on that track if the design isn’t modified to improve safety.
I just dont think we should be racing in places where its a regular occurrence to be hit with bombs??
Like you can talk about the politics of countries like the US and UK but I think we all can agree that at least those countries arent under threat of literal missile strikes.
Plus in the UK and US you can oppose the government and keep your life and freedom
And funnily enough, racing in Russia now doesn't have the risk of getting hit by a stray missile.
What are the chances though in those countries that someone blows up a fan stand, walks and stabs passers by with a knife, or does a drive-by shooting to protest F1 overtaking Nascar in popularity?
When it comes to the politics stuff I think that even among the Middle Eastern nation Saudi Arabia has an abhorrent human rights record when compared to Bahrain, Qatar, and the UAE
well of course but we will race in china too so its not just the middle east
the biggest human rights offender on the planet since WWII is by far USA, once you start reading about all the shit they've done across the world you wish they would collapse as fast as possible
@@bucketslash11 Don't forget that Saudi is US backed, so that statement is doubly true
Easy solution to the human rights, dont break the law
Perhaps we should discuss the United States' human rights record
Love your videos mate! So insightful and sophisticated. How are you enjoying this season so far?
“I think F1 handled it pretty badly” that might as well be the tag line for the sport its happened so often
And Qatar can be added to the list of countries that has a questionable human rights record, But F1 is still happy to go too and race.
Way too early in my mind for them to seriously consider changes for DRS. Two great races so far this year, let’s hope it keeps going! I love the tactical battles, the drivers know better than I do to keep things safe among themselves.
Agreed! Lets see how the season plays out. We're getting some awesome racing this year all across the grid and people are wanting to make it worse all the sudden. I just dont get it.
I think if the "DRS chicken" continues or worsens throughout the season, they should consider changing to 1 or maximum 2 DRS zones per track, for example in Jeddah it's only 1 corner between 2 of the DRS zones so if you pass before turn 27 you get re-passed immediately on the next straight. If there was a full lap between DRS zones, you wouldn't consider purposefully giving up position, but it'd still allow an opportunity for cars closely following.
This isn't to say DRS needs changing, but I can see it possibly getting stupid and dangerous later this season, and I think if it does, then increasing the distance between consecutive DRS zones would stop dangerous manoeuvres.
It's very gimmicky tho
Upsides: following's good. We've got a good fight going on. etc
Downsides: We shouldn't be racing in places that sweep dismembered journalists under the rug, or that are currently committing genocide (Not that any country doesn't have dark parts, but SA pushes hard to make insurgent attacks seem inconsequential)
Meh: TV direction needs work, and Jeddah Circuit also needs more safer barriers and run-off areas. Also, walls that give a bit more; I think it was Nashville that had a ton of hard crashes with relatively minor injuries due to the fact that even unprotected/solid walls gave under high impact. Jeddah's walls took full-speed crashes without a dent.
I thought TV was actually quite good this week. It'll never satisfy everyone because "your favourite driver isn't featured enough" or whatever reason. However it's a big track and the cars were by and large spread out over it very quickly making it much harder to deal with. Personally I can't stand the "in cockpit" view, at least under lights and Crofty droning on about how great it looks didn't help.
Genocide is a bit of an exaggeration, I think.
I’m a new F1 fan and honestly your channel has been a great help - your comprehensive and fair coverage is much needed - thank you!
Loving this format! So much to talk about on these races so far
This is honestly the best F1 channel on UA-cam. Amazing work, I hope you get a lot more viewers and subscribers this season.
Man your videos have just the right amount of information with a little pun like the las vegas one inbetween to keep things down to earth, keep up the good work!
“Well I don’t know about Las Vegas, everyone who went there won’t talk about it”
You raise a good point about this new Vegas race, how are any of us supposed to watch it if everyone is so damn secretive about what goes on there?
Hey Stuart, thanks for mentioning Australia's issues. We want better, but like the UK and US government doesn't listen
If that were true, governments wouldn’t stay in power.
Being an Australian myself, I did raise an eyebrow at the "I'm sure they don't do anything awful" line, but no, he did point out one of the things we don't do right.
@@TheVeyron623 but what should we do about all the refugees? Just… let them all in?
love your analysis of on track action . just great. keep it up
Another well thought out video from you. Great job!
While I disagree with some of your political positions you made a good video.
As an F1 fan, still I think "all the money in the world and they built that?!
Which political positions do you disagree with?
@@Lateralus14 Personally my disagreement is on his opposition to the bill in Florida that, frankly, likely stems from not actually knowing what it contains given regardless of politics it's actually pretty hard to find an ideological reason to oppose it given it bans discussion of topics that would, in the UK or most other European countries, cause a scandal if it was ever discovered elementary school children where having such discussions in class and at the very least have all the adults involved fired and have their teaching licences revoked.
@@ZontarDow This. Chain Bear comparing human rights violations and Yemeni humanitarian crisis / war with banning discussions of sexual topics in school until third grade. Man, regardless if you believe kids should discuss that in school that's quite a stretch to compare the two.
@@Lateralus14 i, on purpose, did not mention them. I'm keeping my participation firmly un F1.
I mentioned the politics just to make clear they didn't just passed me by.
It was like I'm listening to a Russian bot. "WhatAbout [insert insignificant thing] that's happening in the USA?" [that's also present in countless other countries]
Chain Bear you are the best at making f1 videos, keeper going
Great commentary as always. I think Brawn and co may have pulled it off! I look forward to seeing more of these this year
You make a great points here. Gracias.
Hope you do one of this for every race!
haven't they lengthened the DRS zone on multiple tracks back in 2017 or 2018 when the drivers complained they can't follow?
Maybe they can try revert it to the old lengths and see how it works out, or they can try lower the maximum DRS gap?
hell, maybe even making it like the wind tunnel testing time rule, the faster teams have less DRS gap while the slowest team had the biggest like some kind of success ballast, so the lower teams can follow better cars and maybe line up a move
I like the varying gap size idea... But with constant development of cars it would be a nightmare to keep some kind of bop...
Wonderful as usual. Tx
Consise and informative as always.
My god, your videos are amazing. Best f1 videos eva
The last bit is amazing 👏
Honestly, I LOVE the track itself. Seeing the drivers do those fast flowing corners is incredible.
BUT! Every single outside wall needs to be pushed like 20 meters back. Same situation as Eau Rouge really. Great corner, shitty barrier.
The track isn't bad, it's the fact its a death trap. Also, it would no longer be a "street circuit" with this fix
@@simi_lc8 Who cares about being a "street circuit" that's just a stupid gimmick
@@PPedroFernandes exactly, its a full racing circuit thats designed to call itself a street circuit. A street circuit has to use, you know.... real streets.
And the inside walls need to be pushed back if not lowered so they aren't blind corners.
The race was amazing. One thing to mention is that it also shows how hopefully different the strategies will be moving forward. Bahrain was 3 stops and this was 1. It might show that on old surfacing, the tyres degrade much faster, no matter how hard they are. This track is very new, so lenient on the tyres. It might be that we're now getting exciting 1 stop races and boring 3 stop races, as the cars might not be able to push and overtake as frequently due to tyre wear.
This is the best video you ever made!
Good video. Glad someone is brave enough to bring up these issues while discussing F1.
Time to relax with a bit of coffee and Chain Bear.
Agreed pretty much with all you points, but I don't think there isn't anything wrong with DRS as you put it. It has become part of the driver's toolkit and isn't much different from the "boosts" used in Formula E. Maybe we can have even more (strictly regulated) active aero devices in the future to prevent high-speed bouncing, or even aero-braking.
Do you think you could do a full video on the broadcasting side of F1 and how it can be improved? Would love your opinion on how you rate the broadcast from sky etc
+ great idea!
Great video!
Great nuanced video.
Love this format, sort of a "this week in F1".
As much as I loved seeing the new cars absolutely zip round the track at massive speeds, the track itself is far too dangerous
The cars are clearly not able to overtake without DRS in most conditions still. I would be for reducing the DRS zones or DRS strength though. Maybe they can bring back a push to pass style system with the 2025 PUs to emphasize the importance of battery development, and use that to complement a weaker DRS?
So, basically KERS?
@@princeendymion9044 the PUs today already has KERS
@@wotwott2319 ERS and KERS are different. ERS is the amount of energy the battery is releasing over a lap that is taken from heat energy and kinetic energy lost when braking and off throttle and it can be controlled as to how much is released and when. KERS was just a 7 second kick to the engine that was recharged under braking and what the OP describes sounds more like KERS where you're given a small boost to engine power in order to close the gap more quickly as opposed to today where you have a large battery store where you can control how much power it gives you.
@@princeendymion9044 Yep!
Thank you Chain Bear ♥️
How about they move some of the DRS detection points to after the corner instead of before it? I doubt they'll try to give up track position going onto the straight
The reason DRS detection lines are behind the corner is because there's the risk the following car would lose so much pace going around they'd miss the timing entirely. Maybe the less problematic dirty air would reduce it somewhat, but it is still a concern.
@@Appletank8 good one, I didn't think of that. If that has been the reasoning though, looking at the season so far it might be worth considering it at certain tracks.
that bit for Australia in the end.
Regarding the issues with Australia, thejuicemedia's "Honest Government Ads" on Timor-Leste and West Papua are simultaneously eye-opening and hilarious. Would recommend.
Yeah honestly if you start digging you find every country is guilty of terrible things. Some just have better propaganda departments. Saying as an Australian.
@@Peachrocks5 i would argue that what the australian government did and still does in that region is awful, but what the saudis are doing in Yemen and what they do in internal politics is much much worse. Khassoggi murder for example.
British genocide of the Indigenous people in Australia, and many other parts of the world is totally ok though right?
@@blakedake19 yeah, but once a human right violation it is human rights violation nomatter which one is worse. Once F1 decided publicly to not race in a country with human rights violation, there will be so much talks because these people will also highlight human rights violations on western countries. And remember my first sentence. Because if F1 failed to manage this had they chose this route, the FIA would be stamped as double standard.
And for me personally have seen this double standard so bad since this ukraine thing. Just to mention a few, sport wasnt supposed to be tied with politics so showing your political support in a sport is a big no. But suddenly football supporters in europe showed their support for ukraine with no sanction from UEFA, even though something similar happened months before but got fined. So yeah this is an extremely sensitive topic
@@raihanrusli2720 Access to the internet is a human right recognised by ONU, the court of Aja and so on. I am certain that certain violations are worse than others. Bombing schools and hospitals in Yemen is worse than preventing internet access. Now, I do not want to do a tier list of some sort, but mistreating migrants and having ties with authoritarian governments with nations in the south indian ocean can not be on the same level as what the Saudis are doing in Yemen.
Great video as always. I definitely agree with a lot of the points especially with the tyres looking like they got the balance right there. I also agree that DRS was just too powerful there. While these new cars have done a lot for improving following through the corners, this has taken away their ability to slip stream down the straights as well (something my head has not got used to as I keep expecting cars to close up when they get a good drive out of the corner). This means that we aren't quite ready to get rid of DRS yet but it does need to be looked at to get the balance right. This is only the second race of the new era so there is plenty of time to rebalance the equation and get it right. Overall looks like the sport is going in the right direction on track. Off track however... There is a lot to talk about. It is still letting itself be played by brutal dictatorships. It's time F1 has a long hard look at itself and who it associates itself with.
The FIA and Race control seriously need to improve. How long it took to get the vsc when the drivers stopped on circuit on the silly lap 37 or so was stupid. I think that proved that it wasnt just Masi but a systematic problem.
The stewards need to be more professionalized tbh...
or the lack of a call about Perez crossing the SC line second and Redbull keeping him ahead at the restart to protect Max. Those kinds of things feel like things that the computers should flag up the stewerds and it should take all of 30 seconds to hit the approve button. Basically Automated system detects two cars crossing the SC line too close together. Flags it, sends race control the car numbers, the order it thinks the crossing happened, the current order of the cars, and a slow-mo replay vide from parallel along the SC line. Bonus points for a link to the regs section(s) that apply to what it's flagging. Basically the same thing as the speeding in the pit lane.
Love this series! Quick request, on your track animations at the start of the video I could barely see the animated cars when watching on my phone, maybe it could zoom in a bit more in future? 🧡🧡
Maybe a brighter dot for the cars
Seems like reducing the dirty air behind the cars is also reducing the overall air pressure behind the cars (go figure), and so decreasing the slipstream effect. At the moment, its hard to say if being able to follow closer before a straight is actually better this year than last, due to the lack of slipstream effect. Is it better, worse or about the same? i.e. you can get twice as close, before the straight, but only catch half as quickly going down it.
It'll take time to tweak this stuff, though.
I know it’s simple but for parts of track like T 27 in Saudi. I jus think moving the DRS detection to the apex, would be the perfect curveball to any teams trying to play DRS chess. Again I’m referring to the Jeddah track at turn 27
That Vegas joke had me DEAD mate!
Well said
Great video (I'm Australian)
The end killed me. Goes to show EVERYONE has dirty laundry.
Nobody is perfect so legalize murder?
Throwing women in prison for driving is definitely dirtier than prohibiting baby murder, come on. Also, in the US, you can complain about it if you want. Try complaining in Saudi Arabia.
This is the Hypocrisy of F1 and the west.... If the drivers could talk directly about not racing in Russia, what happened in Saudi??? Isn't people losing life here? I'm gonna point Seb Vettel in specific...
He literally just made a statement against Saudi after recovering from COVID. Give the guy a chance!
@@wiegraf9009 Man, the things happening in Saudi is not yesterday or last week... It's been happening since long.. Just that the biased media couldc't hide it any longer..
I'm not here in debate...
@@lostalone9320 That's the hypocrisy... The way you put your words, fall in it too...
the circuit reminds me far too much of those Indy car street circuits that kept having bad crashes 20 years ago. doesn't seem safe to me at all.
or make the gap that opens much closer than it currently is when DRS is opened up
Best f1 channel around... 🙌
Ah, perfect ending. No notes. 😙👌
Yes.
Ok now time to watch the video
Last year the cars had way more drag and therefore the DRS was reducing drag by (for example) 20%. Now with all the underfloor downforce and the top side cleaned up the rear wing makes almost all the aero drag. So when you open that up they are getting ( for example) 50% less drag. I think this is why its so much stronger and i think the answer is just make the opening smaller.
On the Missle strike. They attacked an ARAMCO factory. Excuse me of im wrong but ARAMCO is like the title sponser of F1. You would assume the giant track plastered in their banner would be priority target. I dont think they took it serious enough.
Would a limited cumulative duration of DRS use over the entire race, similar to what IndyCar does with “push to pass“, be a potential solution?
Maybe instead of shortening the start point of DRS zones, we shorten the end point? Ending the boost before the breaking zone?
Can you close DRS at full speed while not breaking? Wouldn't it be that DRS zone stars later rather then ends sooner?
1. DRS strategy was so fun to watch, but drivers letting other drivers overtake or trying be the slowest has the danger of its own.
2. Saudi track concept which is high average speed is fun, and I hope there will be more, but why does it have to be like street circuit ? Kinda too dangerous with so many cons shown in the video
The actual race, besides of almost half the grid having engine problems and the shoddy camera work, didn't make too much of a impact in comparison to what happened since FP1 until the end of qualifying. FIA will have now so many critics, from both inside and outside the sport.
An idea might be to change the behaviour of the detection zones. Perhaps the detection should begin at the start of the DRS zone itself. It's hard to control your speed as you speed up rather than while decelerating, preventing DRS chickening as we're calling it 🐔
Whoever suggest that safety shouldnt be top priority in motor racing is an idiot. The primary purpose of them putting on the racing is for entertainment. Entertainment should never come at the cost of safety and thats not just the drivers, but everyone that helps the F1 weekend go ahead
Got a really big rug down here in Aus, and plenty of people to man the brooms. Should be right
I think they got drop drs and move towards battery deployment push to pass like in indycar. They could even make it so that drivers get a limited number of p2p per race like 100 seconds or something. It will introduce a strategy game like in indycar with drivers needing to save p2p for crucial moments of the race. Say you need an extra boost to pip a driver in the pits.
I wonder if more information will come to light about the drivers' desire to cancel the race. I got the impression that they were forced to race against their will, which would indeed be very concerning.
What makes you say that? Genuinely asking
@@lostalone9320 It wouldn't be suddenly changing their minds, there was literally a missile strike 20km away.
@@topiasr628 the fact that the drivers meeting went on for so long and ambiguous PR statements from the teams and F1, combined with vague interviews from the drivers. I'm reading between the lines, which is why I'm anxious for more info. I could be proven wrong on this point. Also a lot of info has come to light about a dispute that WWE had with the Saudi government and the sketchy way that situation went down.
Maybe we could disable DRS if cars are too close, or changed positions within 5 seconds, to prevent DRS chicken.
Well said about the relationship between F1 and oppressive regimes mate. Bit of an iffy one that.
@Chain Bear, totally loved your extra-political conversation. So many youtubers should become like you. Ban Russia? Yes. Why not Saudi? Why not UK? Even Japan has crazy laws. Thank you
I do think there are improvements to be made to this Saudi street circuit. But I still hold to the belief that this really is Monaco but a big step faster.
That DRS ZONE to DRS title transition @04:08, tho. So smooth! 👌
@04:08
people comparing the US and UK to saudi is just absolutely laughable
To you
Are you serious? Might wanna do some research on the history of the British Empire and the genocide committed in many, many countries.
Not having the DRS detection zone near a braking zone would help stop the shenanigans.
I'm very inclined to think DRS should be a bit nerfed now. I think there's a chance the cars being able to race closer and keep so much of their downforce puts the DRS in a position where it can crucially tip the balance back and forth between a much wider range of cars than it did, such that most battles between reasonably level cars will turn into an artificial Arnoux Vs. Villeneuve -- yes, I'm arguing too much of a good thing might be bad in this specific scenario, because of the artificiality.
DRS should take a 180. And only be available when your more than 1 second from the car in front. And some rule to stop drs trains..
let me give one opinion for what it's worth. Apparently American wrestling was effectively held hostage at the airport when they didn't put on a show one time. I got that vibe from the f1 teams, that they had little choice but to keep the event going. Now they had a good race but, now that drivers and teams are out of Saudi Arabia safely, they should refuse to go back. They were able to cancel Russia despite contracts. The same can be done to Saudi for the safety of teams & drivers.
DRS chicken will only be a "problem" with consecutive DRS zones and when the 2 drivers playing chicken have a considerable gap to the next driver. THIS WAS THE BEST RACE SO FAR
That minute of morning brew was painful.
After how Jeddah went this year, I hope teams will simply refuse to attend next year if it still makes the calendar, points be damned.
It would be a great track with gravel all around it. Not that crap modern runoff.
Big respect for posting this video.
Saudia Arabia seems to be pushing to get involved in alot of professional sports of late. Professional Wresting, Golf, F1, and even E-sports. I think its mostly PR rehabilitation.
1. Don’t paint a DRS detection line
2. Shorten long DRS zones
if this track was in open space like bahrain with a little elevation change and runoffs it would be half decent
After 5 or so videos with the new intro, i now desperately need to know the name of that song if it exists aside of this videos.
Why is everyone talking about making DRS zones shorter? Just make it weaker, make the opening panel smaller. It should just about get you next to the other car at the end of the zone, so you'd still have to rely on a better line/ later braking/ using the battery to get past someone.
They need to move the line to a place it would be difficult to manipulate
Almost every country has its current of recent problems, if we only went with politics we would have about 4 races a season
@@lostalone9320 what, is that some shite from the bible
Instead of removing DRS zones why not change DRS activation rules to allow the leader to also open the rear wing if the threatening car is within 0.2 seconds?
Personally I think this race was one of the best in terms of strategy with on track battles, that we’ve had in a while. If the season continues like this. Not only with the top battle be Amazing. But Formula 1.5 is going to be CUT THROAT
Well given that there was literally missiles near the track I'd say yeah a bit dangerous
can you change your f1 cars in the videos to the 2022 f1 cars
How many of those passes would have taken place without DRS? Not having it would mean few passes if any.