F1's Pit Stop Time Loss Explained
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- Опубліковано 1 чер 2024
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You know the deal - you've got to make a pit stop sometime. But how much time is it going to cost you? And how to you work that out? And why is it so much less painful to pit during a safety car?
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221 minus 212 equals 8 'ish'
8.99ish. Give or take
I would definitely argue that 9 is 8ish
Square root of 69 is 8 something
I can't imagine him do this accidentaly. Maybe it's an comment trigger experiment or something...
@@LightsEnd304 Worst lyrics ever 😂
I do just want to say that I really appreciate this current upload schedule, Stuart. I know you've talked about F1 exhaustion in your video about next year's calendar, but for what it's worth, I am always looking forward to seeing these videos pop up during the week after a race. I hope Gloomhaven isn't suffering too badly.
I wish he could talk more about other disciplines like FE back then and the Mercedes CLR thing with Autosport, but Gloomhaven is a priority 😉
Thanks Robert
@@DannyPlaysStuff Yeah I've been having a think about what I wanna do on this channel and hopefully be bursting with inspiration and diversity of content. maybe
I'm surprised you didn't mention two other factors to this when discussing the safety car:
1. You want to pit right away, not wait for the train, as you're more likely to lose more track position once everyone is bunched up behind the SC.
2. Under VSC the cars don't bunch up, but the delta isn't quite as drastically affected as it is by a regular safety car.
At the beginning of a regular SC they use the same delta-time system as VSC until the cars are bunched up. So the pit stop delta under VSC is exactly the same as under the first lap of regular SC.
On the second lap of SC the delta would technically be larger, but like you said you'd loose more positions as the cars are bunched up now.
Likewise, he didn't mention it's a cheap pitstop but it's often a pitstop at the wrong time. So the teams have to constantly check whether or not the time gained in the pit stop is worth (for instance) the time lost at the end of the stint with degraded tires
@@anidiotinaracingcar4874 Absolutely, the timing of a pit stop, plus the potential for undercut/overcut, can be pivotal to the outcome. I think that bleeds a bit more into overall race strategy, so I can see why that might not have been included in this video.
And there's one more thing to consider. Sometimes pitting before the safety car can be even better. I'm not sure how but I remember Vettel using it to overtake Hamilton in 2012 Australian GP. I think it's because Hamilton caught the back of the safety car before he could pit?
@@dlake1224 Yeah, that's similar to what I was talking about with pitting right away when the SC is called, and that can be thwarted if you catch the SC (or its train) before you get a chance to pit.
Mate, honestly been ages since you released such videos. My F1 foundation was your channel back in 2017.🔥🔥
Dude me too, I have incredibly good memories of chain bear videos about basic F1 stuff playing while I tried to figure out simracing.
Me too bro! All the technical details and concepts I learnt from here. F1 for Dummies (UA-cam class)
Would love to see an analyse of the top speed difference of the teams this year compared to previous
Redbull 11km faster on the straight without drs last weekend, seems a bit mad
1:16 221-212=9 Is the Speed Delta of 8 a mistake or am I missing something.
The only thing you're missing is the question mark 🌚
I'm don't recognise 217 as a number
@@chainbear You're don't ? 🤔😂
@@falinestixiaolong9691 He's doesn't have time to fix it either. 😏
@@chainbear Understandable, bringing to mind Mark Webber's count of race entries and that he never took a World Championship. It hurts us Aussies down deep.
I've missed this kind of video. Loved it!
You could also mention that you have to pit RIGHT AWAY once SC or VSC is called, otherwise you’ll lose a lot of positions because the distance between the cars will shrink progressively during SC until they’re all right behind each other, correct?
That's track position based, not pit delta based
@@hdr_diamondz Correct, but it makes a big difference in how many cars will have passed you. In the pre sc situation it is likely to be fewer places than in the sc train situation. Eventually it is not time lost, but position on track that matters.
That’s exactly what I mean. So, if you pit at the beginning of the safety car, when the cars aren’t that close together, yet, you might be able to take advantage of losing less time for your pitstop. If you pit later, you will lose a lot of track position because the field has compressed. Unless, of course, everybody around you also pits.
Or, of course, if you know other cars around, you will have to pit Eventually, you can take advantage of the smaller time loss when pitting during safety car.
Track position loss under VSC is more analogous to green flag running than safety car. Most of the time you cannot lose track position to literally everyone like you would under a full safety car.
Yours are among the best-produced videos on racing and F1 that I know of. Thank you for doing what you do!
This is the best F1 content around, always love to see a new Chain Bear video pop up!
A pit stop under the SC train will have a smaller delta (he says -12s) but will lose more places as cars are bunched up.
Your videos are genuinely the most informative F1 things on youtube.
Again, your videos are the absolute best!!!
You’re the 3Blue1Brown of F1 content!
Brilliant explanation!
Love these videos
Awesome, as always
Thanks for actually explaining that!
For many years the F1 TV feed never showed this information. There always was only the "total time spent in pits" clock shown on screen, and our local reporter usually suggested that that would be the time lost when making a pitstop.
But it occurred to me early that this is wrong. You need to subtract the time a car on track requires to drive from pit entry to pit exit.
So every time he was surprised that after making a stop, a car would not lose nearly as much time as displayed on screen....
Now that usually after a couple of stops the F1 TV displays "average time lost during pitstop" there is no need to guess how much less it is than the "time spent in pits" displayed for every stop.
(of course the exact pit delta for a stop is difficult to display as it varies according to speed of the cars on track, as you explained)
Miss your content Chain Bear. Your informational videos were a big part of how I got in to F1.
Thank you, you make me able to better appreciate F1 (motoracing in general)
I would love a video on how teams anticipate when a safety car is more/less likely. Great video!
As far as I'm aware they take historical data from previous races there
yeah they just hoping cars will spin off and beached based on historical data.
And factoring in whether Latifi is in the field or not
@@swfc_clips anytime Latifi enters a technical sector the chances are boost by 50%
Will you be doing a talking points video for the US GP? I'm interested in hearing what you have to say about Fernando's penalty
just as a slight further extension to this... this is also why some races/series have something called a "joker" lap... where instead of pitting every car needs to make a certain amount of joker laps, usually through an extended version of the track or through the pit lane to simulate having to pit for w/e reason... can be used as punishment, added in to spice up a race or just because the format works better with one.
chain bear f1 was everything back in 2019. his video on how honda could have had a red bull 1-2-3 finish at brazil 2019 was amazing. verstappen was his favorite underdog driver. what happened.
but shouldn't pitting before the safety car train forms be more advantageous since when you pit all the cars behind you on the train pass you? So in that case delta does not make a huge difference I assume
Great video
please do a video about the budget cap breaches, its clear from social media that noone really understands it. i need a chain bear explanation
Pit delta comparison might be more accurate if you use the lap before the entry lap plus the lap after the exit lap, as your baseline. That removes the tire change effects from the comparison, leaving just the slowdown from navigating through the pit lane/in-pit process.
You should have also added positions lost during all those 3 variants. Losing 16s for a pit stop but only 1-2 positions is better than losing 12s but 10 positions because all the cars already cought up to the SC.
Another factor is pit lane entry getting closed during safety car meaning pitting right before then is often good (Gasly at Monza 2020) but it can vary depending on the timing of opening the pits and race restart + how many cars actually decide to pit.
Then to make the video complete, add a situation when a driver pits right before SC and pit lane is open (for example Perez in Saudi Arabia 2022).
So what about when they say a certain track is not liable for undercuts or overcuts? I have a feeling tyre deg is q very huge factor but I would really like to see a video on that
Is the pit lane time the same regardless of the conditions between your 2 points? If you are exiting the pits, under SC you still have to respect the delta, so your time would surely be slower between those 2 points?
Ooh back to explained videos good
I dont know how I feel about this but as a thought experiment how much different do you think strategy would be if a pitlane/speed limmit was designed i such a way that that pit delta is as close to the actual in box time as possible.
I thought I knew all there was about it but I'm glad I wacltched this. I have a much better comprehensive knowledge of it now
Hey, haven't seen anything from you for months now, and just wanted to check-in. Hope you are well and hoping for new awesome content. Take care
Would one way to accurately measure pit delta be to just measure a lap starting and finishing somewhere else than the start/finish line, such as the start of sector 3?
Yeah, you could just measure at the start and end points of the relevant part of the track.
I doubt, the way he explained it, is how it's actually measured. Taking the combined time of the lap a car pits and the one after it and subtracting the time of 2 combined normal racing laps from that, can't give you the realistic pit loss time because you would also have to factor in the effect of the new tires.
I bet they actually measure it by starting the lap time from say the first timing post after the pit exit, and actually just measure the time to do 1 lap normally and one while pitting.
I know what the Pit Delta is but I had to watch this video anyways just bc it's Chain Bear!
Here's an interesting pit stop delta for you. Donnington 1993: No pit lane speed restrictions + pit lane being significantly shorter than the corresponding section of track = Senna sets fastest lap after entering pitlane and then not stopping.
Okay so I've been following this channel a couple of years now, and I have to ask...
...what actually is a chain bear?
Do you think that reducing the pit delta as much as possible would encourage harder and more aggressive driving? As if you burn through some tires it'll be easy to change them and get back out there?
While the base premise holds water, that shouldn't happen, ever. The pit delta isn't something magical we want to reduce, it exist as a natural consequences to safety measures. Yes, you could build tracks where the pit lane is a massive shortcut so you don't lose as much time, and that would certainly be interesting - but most tracks can't really change.
Also, pit lanes are - rather ironically, considering the speed limits - already pretty dangerous. There's a reason teams don't refuel cars anymore and anytime you have 3+ cars in the pits at the same time will be pretty chaotic and therefore dangerous.
I'm thinking the pit lane distance should be close to the racing lane distance it substitutes.
I wish you had gone further.
Yes it's a cheap pitstop but it's often a pitstop at the wrong time. So the teams have to constantly check whether or not the time gained in the pit stop is worth (for instance) the time lost at the end of the stint with degraded tires
You should add more info about under and over cuts.
Isn't each second "more costly" in terms of position loss when cars are bunched up though? I.e. a 20 second pit stop might cost 3 positions while an 8 second pit stop under SC might cost 10 positions.
This is a great video explaining timing, but without full context it might leave viewers with wrong impressions on what has to be considered when making pit stops.
There was something captivatingly special about the F1 racing era prior to mandating pit stops; as the cars raced the 300 km distance on a single set of tires and fuel; i.e. no pitstops. It took a set of special skills for the drivers to apply fuel and tire management to make both last the entire race.
Been a while since an "I'm going to explain a thing" video
I think that we pay too much attention to just the "stop" part of the pitstop and not the whole pit trip. Announcer obsess ofver 2 or 3 tenths in changing tires, but then are oblivious to the actual total time which varies a lot (more than a second),
I remember when they closed the pit when there's a SC deployed, I dunno, it felt weird, isn't like the drivers are crashing on purpose for their team mates getting wins... anymore...
right?
While it might be true that the SC-Train/Pit-Stop delta is much less than the normal-running/Pit-Stop delta, this (contrary to VSC or catching up to the SC) is not the end of calculations. Becuase while you may loose 8 seconds less, you will fall down the order (i.e. track position) far, faaar more than during a VSC stop. And having to re-overtake a bunch of cars after the restart will loose you more than 8 seconds in almost all circumstance, even if you are the faster car. Stopping behind a full SC when the field is already bunched up only makes sense if you also gain an advantage on the tires - e.g. you get to swap away from a bad tire or towards a quicker tire for free.
Chain Bear fallen off the face of the earth?
Where is our Zhou Time :)
1:15 isn't 221-212 = 9? not 8? DRS speed delta should be 9???
Good lord talk about making a simple subject seem overwhelmingly complicated.
Separately what I'd like to know is just how Red Bull are so consistently faster at their pit stops and why nobody else is able to achieve their times with the same regularity? I mean can personnel really just be that much quicker? 0.5s advantage is enormous in F1.
One thing I don't quite understand is why a car pitting 1 or 2 laps before a SC is deployed gets so much advantage, like alonso in Singapore 2008 or gasly in monza 2020
It doesn't. It would be very bad if you pit and a lap later a safety car comes out, as explained everyone that hadn't pitted yet and do so under the safety car, lose less time on you compared to how much you lost to them during your stop.
If car nr1 is, say 3 seconds, ahead of car nr2 and pits, then 2 laps later a safety car comes out and the car that was nr2 pits at the beginning of the safety car, car nr2 will more than likely come out ahead of the nr1 car, because car nr1 was moving at a reduced pace behind the safety car.
You always lose out pitting just before safety car.
2008 there was a rule that you could not pit until the field was cued up behind the safety car.
While in Gasly's case, the Pit entry was closed for security reasons.
Hope the Brazilians pundits watch this video... We had the commentators saying it makes no difference to pit behind a SC or not since the pit stop time was the same...
unless you are near the back of the field pitting while in the Safety car train is just an awful idea because you lose a huge amount of places.
There have become why too many streaming platforms it’s gotten worse than cable, and the whole reason we cut the cable, was to NOT SPEND OUR CASH,!!!
The solution to stop massively unfair advantages being gained by being lucky with a safety car stop is really simple...
SOLUTION: If you stop during a safety car or virtual safety car the pit crew have to wait 5 seconds before working on the car!
It Delta varies from track to track, but even on the tracks with the largest the advantage gained will be severely limited.
And on those tracks with the lowest Delta you maybe slightly punished pitting under safety car, but it will only equate to a slow stop.
That or lower the speed limit in the pit lane when the safety car is deployed. Done. No more free pitstops.
But apparently all the F1 fans I have talked to prefer more show instead of fair racing...
@@swe223 they don't realise that as the cost cap, tunnel time variations, and new regulations will make the show better and better and things that were traditionally ways to shake up a GP will make them worse!
@@samueldorrington8990 I agree and I think it's even worse. Some people (and I mean 20 years+ fans) did not even question the fact that cheap pitstops exist. When I talked to them, they were like "Yeah it's good or bad luck, that's just how it is". Like a fatality. It is so engraved in their brain and in the habits of the sport that they never ever thought that we could get rid of it (super easily)
If the in lap is almost as fast as a normal lap couldn't Magnussen have tried to beat Seb through the pit lane?
Ohhh it might actually be close. I'd be very interested in the answer. What is the fastest route to the finish line, ignoring time loss afterwards.
London E-Prix 2021 - Negative pit delta.
CHAIN BEAR!!!
How do I email you? This was a good primer on lap Deltas but I believe you miss a crucial bit about how the whole outlap is also slower because tyres are warming up and most importantly, how this affects the undercut/staying out (your pit delta actually somewhat lowers the lap after your opponent pitted). A lot of cool stuff is going on in the strategy that should probably be coming to light!
I would love to send you a quick little video with some points or just a more detailed email with some examples - you could do a follow-up video or sprinkle some similar examples into your future content :)
Forward this video to Ferrari and maybe they will have an understanding too
Would have Lewis been able to pit in Abu Dhabi 2021. He was 12/13 secs ahead of max. When the SC came out Lewis was a turn or so from the pit entry. Would that have been enough to keep in front if he had pitted? Feel like Mercedes gave red bull the win by not pitting
Yas Marina has an odd pit lane. Remember, on pit out, that it goes into a very narrow tunnel under the track, curves sharply to the left then back to the right before paralleling the track. The delta even under a SC would likely be much greater than he showed at COTA.
@@stevelavergne285212/13 secs would had been enough time for Lewis to pit and keep the lead? I know when max pitted it was like 20 secs overall. Not sure how much time Lewis would have saved.
No he would have lost track position if he pitted and max stayed out which was why they chose not to pit. He lost enough time battling with checo so max was able to stay within that window.
@@AyoSosanya somewhat true? Don't think Lewis would lose time battle max or Perez on fresh tries. Look what max did to Lewis. Same would have happened . Pretty sure Red bull would have pitted even if Lewis did. Just because of the risk of a restart. They don't pit, Lewis wins. If they pit they would be basically on level ground.more of a chance to win.
@@ericktb4 He did? the whole "checo is a legend" thing came from when Checo extended his stint on old tires to hold lewis up after he pitted for fresh tires. Checo held him up enough for max to make up like almost 15 secs lol
I don't think they would have, Max was already on fresher tires from when he pitted under VSC late in the race and is aggressive enough to defend that position for one lap.
Merc trapped themselves when they didn't pit under VSC because that meant they had no choice but to stay out at the end or give a free position to max.
1:17 but 221-212 is 9, not 8...
Unless you're crofty and you claim DRS is worth about 90 MPH.
Now finish up Bottas march to the title.
o
o
221 km/h - 212 km/h = 8 km/h 🤦♀
Why doesnt F1, knowing the delta between the pit delta and the pit delta with safety car, add that difference as a mandatory stactionary time in the pits before the crew makes any changes? I Would assume it would reduce virtual gains right? It should all be in the spirit of competition that we close down this lucky gains as much as possible.
Or simply lower the speed limit in the pit lane when the safety car is deployed. Done. No more free pitstops.
But apparently all the F1 fans I have talked to prefer more show instead of fair racing...
when they get rid of tyre blankets the delta is absolutely gonna need to account for the out lap...
DRS delta
1:56 you only included the changing track width for turn 1
9:16 Yeah nice graphics but there wasn't that much new learning going on
Nebula gets early access folks! Go get it right now!
Slight tangent, but I've always felt the introduction of the pit lane speed limit was a big aggravating factor in the rise in 'boring' races over the subsequent era (as well as the bigger issues of car size, aero disruption when following etc). Pit stops became more 'pricey' due to the longer pit delta, making it harder to claw that time back - so drivers became less able to risk diving into the pits for a fresh set of boots when they were racing for position. Add in good tyre durability and there was pretty much no incentive to stop if you didn't have to.
The apparent solution to rebalance that - designing compounds with massive deg to create a bigger lap time offset between fresh/worn - has taken quite a few years to figure out, but recently it seems to be coming good: seeing a number of races in the last couple of years where late stops for fresh tyres have created exciting finishes with drivers chasing each other down in the closing laps (even without needing a SC or VSC situation).
Obviously would never advocate getting rid of the speed limit due to safety, it's just a situation I occasionally ponder.
This isn't showing in my sub feed fyi
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I hope Lewis gets one of these last 3
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max (first)
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