Had to rewind to make sure I saw it correctly and it was indeed a Euro note rather than a Pound note behind that clip. I'm guessing you put it there because with some travel restrictions still in place, you're not going to use it for a while anyway? 😂
I would say, why not let there be specific laps, when you'd assume otherwise boring racing to be taking place, to be "unlimited" fuel laps? Say you know that Lap 25 of Monaco is a bore, so you say "on Lap 25, for each car, we disable fuel flow limitations". Would that help at all?
To be honest its a pretty simple concept, so might not be very video-worthy. In a nutshell: the FIA uses a flowmeter to check the fuel usage of the engine, this fuelmeter only measures X times a minute. Ferrari figured out this interval and *increased* the fuel flow whenever the fuelmeter wasn't checking, and lowered it to a lower, legal rate whenever i did check. Redbull suspected Ferrari was doing this, and prettty much asked the FIA "If someone would do this, would this be legal?" which it obviously wasn't.
@@spibased while I like wtf1 for their podcasts and in summary that's what Ferrari did, you surely don't wanna believe anything from wtf1 that isn't an opinion video. They just thrash out half baked, subparly researched sub 8 min videos for the YT algo gods when they aren't doing their podcasts.
Their oil had a high octane level and they oiled the combustion chambers directly with this oil causing it to burn after lubricating piston rings which produced more power
Think of the pulse setting on a showerhead, but with fuel flow, and you've pretty much figured it out. FIA fuel flow meters check the flow X times every minute, and Ferrari figured out the intervals and dumped more fuel in whenever the meter was essentially not paying attention.
@@ZontarDow It was literally in the rulebooks lmao. Sure, only cheating if you don't get caught but lets not pretend it's some incredible innovation that the FIA banned for no reason.
@@ThatGenericName The FIA has banned innovation for decades, the most advanced and "road relevant" F1 cars where in the 90s (and the FIA's constant stifling of innovation makes any claims that F1 has any degree of road relevance fail the straight face test). Cheating's a part of racing, that's just how it is and nothing will change that.
I wondered if you could use an "inflatable fuel pipe" to create a small storage/buffer tank near the engine and inflate it with fuel when the engine didn't need the full 100L/hour (eg in the braking zone).
Think you've got it back to front at 7:25 - fuel is heavy, you go high burn at the start, run your fuel down, then spend longer coasting when you're lighter and faster anyway.
Agreed. Which would arguably add some excitement if teams are running alternative strategies and you spend the end of the race watching Driver A run down Driver B who burnt their fuel for the early lead.
Personally I think allowing mega-rich mix would improve tactical viability. Sure you could have the stalemate suggested, but you could also have drivers feigning rich mix or wearing through tires and forcing the opponent into wasting fuel to gain a benefit later in the race. The defender doesn't know when rich mix is going to be used so he either has to overuse his fuel or he will eventually get caught out by it. Ultimately there will be a lot more mind games. No competitive e-sports are ever as simple as "the opponent does x so we mirror them, forever stalemate" - there is always some degree of unknown and some delayed reaction times ruining that mentality. There's no reason to think F1 will be any different. Plus there are more than 2 cars, if you've burnt all your fuel you get overtaken by multiple cars later in the race. Hardly a tactical win even if you keep the position. The prediction on saving fuel early doesn't seem to fit either. Historically teams have done the polar opposite as fuel gives a weight penalty carried throughout the race. With tire wear such an extreme focus of F1 compared to decades past, and high fuel loads wearing tires more than lower fuel loads, its a safe assumption that the default strategy won't be to sit on a massive weight of fuel for 75% of the race. This just seems like a bunch of simplistic and frankly rushed tactical arguments to claim that fuel limits are more fun to watch. It seems like you started with the conclusion and are looking for arguments to support fuel limits rather than looking at the evidence then finding a conclusion. Also "different cars at different speeds" seems to be argued as a negative here. Isn't that the goal of a lot of F1. Forcing tire strategy, adding DRS, it all seems to be oriented to having different cars at different speeds. Or in other words, more overtaking. I don't see why its constantly being pushed as a problem in this video.
To be fair, the main argument for the limit was the road relevance, however some people thought well F1 shouldn't have to be road relevant so he examined it from a purely racing perspective. Of course it's more difficult to justify it in that isolated case as with many other F1 things, but he explained it doesn't automatically make the racing better just having additional strategic options and noted the downsides of such regulations. Also more strategies might sound fun to some, but on the other side there would be a lot more fuel management meaning the cars would have to go through periods where they are going significantly slower. For the people that just want to see drivers keep pushing, this would be crap to watch as the driver would have to do laps with nursing the car and a lot of people already hate that with the tyres currently. Can't please everyone I suppose, so yeah fuel limits aren't inherently making the racing worse. Personally I'm fine with the fuel limit, Pirelli just needs to bring softer compounds to make more than a single pitstop strategy viable on many circuits and that would be plenty enough of strategic options. Either that or find a way to make refuelling safer and make them do fuel sprints, but it doesn't seem like that is viable still.
We would just have more parades you have teams like Redbull, Merc that are another world faster than the midfield in the turns especially the medium to fast turns, and would run minimal fuel with no threat and then just go full out on the straight. So instead of a parade of tire saving, we would have tire saving and engine modes that would just protect against an overtake which really only happens on the straights. It might help at Monza and Spa but I don't think it would help overall. The RB Merc turn speeds are replicated through the midfield but slower than the top and for the most part have the same turn speeds and so do the backmarkers. If anything you would see the best-funded teams just become even richer. More mechanical grip would be more helpful to get turn speed discrepancies and then drivers would be able to gain more momentum. To your point of guys messing up, it would be more of a race of attrition hoping the car in front has a mechanical issue. I race full races online in Iracing, RFactor, and F12020, and don't forget to change my engine modes and hit DRS I say this only because I am not even close to sniffing the talent these drivers have. Also, do you really want to watch a race for 2 hours hoping for a mistake? I mean these guys rarely screw up on drying tracks with a narrow margin for error on the dryline this may help the first race but the teams would just be on the radio to tell the driver they need to go to engine mode (insert number/letter here) knowing the exact moment they would need to change modes to stay ahead.
Agree with Olivia 100%. The video feels like FIA hired Chainbear to come up with excuses for why fuel flow restrictions are a good thing. He didn't even give a single positive effect removing the restrictions could have. Even the things that would be positive were spun as negatives and safety issues. No restrictions = more strategies, more overtaking, more action, more surprising outcomes. @MRSchockwave, removing fuel flow limits would not hurt road relevance at all. Having a more efficient engine than your competitors would still give you a big benefit as you could make more total net power from the limited amount of fuel everyone is allowed. More total power generated during a race = higher average speed during a race = more likely to win the race. What I mean is, the more efficient an engine you have, the quicker your lap times will be compared to your competitors while using the same amount of fuel per lap as your competitors.
You're assuming that F1 teams wouldn't be able to (A) figure out the preferred strategy, (which would put any other strategies in the bin) and (B) that they wouldn't be able to tell or learn exactly when their opponents are full beans. All they might have to see is a lap time or if their driver is near a sudden spike in acceleration or top speed.
7:00 i think it would be the other way around; go full beans at the start for track position and burning fuel weight so you run lighter for the rest of the race while you conserve
It's honestly pretty simple: there is a sensor that checks fuel rates every so often. While the sensor isn't checking, the engine takes an extra gulp of fuel. Think of it like sneaking past guards on a strict patrol path in _Metal Gear Solid_ or a similar game. You hide while the guard is looking down your hallway and move to the next hidey hole while he's not looking. The tricky part is that in this case the guard looks down the hallway 22,000 times every second. Beating that level of scrutiny is hard. F1 changed the setup after Red Bull's inquiry to have two sensors, as well as adding a random element to how often they check.
I just want to know how chuffed you were when realized the air intake bobbing up and down is the perfect way to show the engine is on. I'm not kidding, I would feel pretty good about it.
When that chart levelled out at the end, you realize how much of a masterclass is your animation and demonstration. As always, thank you for the content and keep it up. Cheers.
in the F1 games I always try to get the amount of fuel to go full beans most of the race (not rich mix all the time but a bit in reserve) and always try to go more than less pit stops, to maximize my own enjoyment, ofcourse some circuits are set on one stop unfortunately
7:00 I'm quite sure all teams/cars are going to use as much fuel as they can at the start when everybody is really close and overtaking matters. Then have a lighter car for the rest of the race.
I really enjoy Indycar's refueling as it allows for them to only carry 35kilos of fuel at a time and push harder for longer on the tires. Personally, pitstop drama from fuel rig malfunctions and trying to pass through pitstops is very entertaining to me and I think fire safety technology has come a long way making it much safer than before. Though with how many people there are in an F1 pitbox there's a lot more safety concern with fire
@@howdareyou41 yeah that’s why I added the part about newer safety technologies because Indy and NASCAR have occasional fueling fires but nobody ever gets hurt in those anymore. It’s much more safe. For example, F1 never did the squirt of water on splashed fuel like Indy does
@@Koopzilla24 nobody ever gets hurt anymore? that's what they said about f1 too and then ppl still got hurt and killed. I'm all in favour of making the sport as safe as possible. kinda tired of my heroes being killed in race cars.
@@howdareyou41 if you want the F1 pit lane to be safer you need less than 14 people in the box with cars going in and out. Also having more fuel in the car at a time would mean there’s more to ignite in a worst case scenario crash. We saw how much flames are produced just by what little went up in Grosjean’s crash last year
Great video, Stuart! I agree about limiting the fuel flow, although I believe F1 would benefit from a ruge where all teams must start the race with full tank, 110 kg, no matter what circuit they’re racing on. And please, make the video about the Ferrari trick. Cheers
You marked the coast sections of the Berlin E-Prix wrong as it goes counter clockwise under normal circumstances. But nice, that you thought of that one-off reverse layout from last year :D
For the FIA this would be absolutely no problem. But for the engine manufacturers this would mean they'd have to develop separate engine mappings and possibly even different hardware parts for each track. So it would massively increase development costs, without adding any benefit to the sport.
@@samiraperi467 no they wouldn’t, they have fuel flow sensors that monitor the flow rate, they don’t actually have a restrictor which limits the fuel flow.
This also addresses the “party mode” kerfuffle from last year: why not do what Super Formula does? Have a normal engine mode where the fuel flow 100kg/hr limit is in place, but allow 2-3 super mode activations per race where they can use a higher fuel flow limit for several dozen seconds. Add the airbox lights so fans and drivers know when certain cars are on berserk mode.
I was of the opinion that cars should have no maximum fuel flow rate and teams should be given much less fuel to begin with, but this video has changed my mind. Fuel flow is fine how it is. Something else regarding this, however is that I think the team should be able to control the cars engine and ers modes. It would allow the drivers to just concentrate on driving and not have to be guided through how to control their own car. Give the drivers an override button so that team orders aren't 100% enforced. I think the racing would benefit from this.
I think qualifying would be also a problem. Without the fuel flow limit there would be a hyperpartymode as it was in the first turbo era. The famous 1400 hp BMW engine was an qualifying engine. We can only imagine what power level can be reached with 2021 technology. So other types of limitations would be introduced, as the maximum turbo pressure and so on. The simple fuel flow limit a simple solution for a lot of concerns.
That was a brilliant video. I did not ever think of the details that you gave in this video but yet had the same question. Please make that video that you are referring to about that unnamed team
I'm not sure I agree with all this, some of it makes sense but not all. Many of the hypotheses you used to argue against free fuel flow is just that; hypotheses. We don't know how the racing would pan out. I think the logic answer is that teams would calculate how to reach the finish of the race with the given amount of fuel in the shortest possible time, like they do for tire strategy, and then alter that on the fly depending on what actually happens during the race. To me that would be super interesting. If one team starts pushing hard early on, do others stick to their plan knowing they will be faster over-all that way, or do they follow suit? Not being able to defend because you burned off your fuel already, or being able to push late on because you have been conservative in the early stages. I think we might actually see a lot of overtaking that way. The worst that would happen is probably that everyone always just goes for pretty much the same strategy, which isn't any worse than what we have now... The teams are simply too good these days for much interesting chaos to occur regularly.
Indeed! If I had my way I'd go all the way and change F1 from an engine to a fuel formula: -Everybody has to run the same standardised fuel. -From the end of Qualifying everybody gets, say, a maximum of 100kg of fuel to spend in the race as wished. You are entirely free to develop your power unit and strategy to fit within that envelope. At a stroke fuel development costs are eliminated, innovation is promoted, and current PUs remain viable for those who want to keep using them. Better yet with no room to develop fuels there will be less pressure to incrementally develop PUs at great expense for little reward - once you are happy with your concept there will be little reason to keep at it.
ok, you've convinced me on the F1 side of things. But with EVs not really being where we want them to be right now in terms of road cars, I think Formula E should allow full motor and battery development. FE should really be pushing for road relevance and they're not.
Racing with limited energy and regeneration Percentage of 35 to 40 %?? What more do you want?? I'm currently working on Electric buses and best they can achieve is 25 to 30% regeneration. Batteries should be opened up as they are the bottle neck not the motors
Donut Media did a very good video about Ferrari "tricking" the fuel flow sensor, but maybe you could add more details on it. And I like when you related the tech with the sport side of things.
The part that is missed is the cost element. If fuel flow was unrestricted there would not be a limit to the power that could be achieved with a turbo engine. That would trigger a development race to make stronger internals and maximize air flow into the engine. The other part is with regards to safety, not just speed differential. There is a desire to cap power output as tracks and tires would need to be changed.
Donut Media literally released the ferari video today unfortunately :( If you want *other* video ideas though, I'd love to see more on strategy (you could of course reference the merc strategy win in spain and the monaco strategy excellence from redbull and Aston Martin), or a speculative video on what cars will look like next year. Or if you want to do a "how it works" type-thing, it could be neat to learn about the steering setups and what ratios/sizes they use and what mechanisms there are to allow steering post-crash etc.
They need a minimum amount of fuel in parc ferme, when the cars are weighed or you are disqualified, look what happened to Ticktum in Monza F2 race last year
Wouldn't it still be a better strategy to keep fuel consumption steady, instead of the low/high strategy. Things like air resistance will increase exponentially with speed and the brakes will need to bleed more energy to slow down for corners if you go fast. So one fast lap might require two slow laps to compensate. That means that the average lap time will be longer. So if other cars employ the low/high strategy while you use a steady power and we ignore other factors like weather. In the first half of the race you will take the lead and then increase your lead because you are going faster than the other cars. It the second half the race the other cars will be going faster than you and start closing the distance, but they should never be able to catch you if you both have the same amount of fuel.
Im not sure I agree that drivers/teams would conserve the fuel in the first part of the race without the limit. On circuits where overtakin is hard, getting out into free air is very important, hence a lead car would like to create a big enough gap to seperate to allow for a pitstop and come out ahead of the midfield teams. Burning the fuel early also gives you a faster overall time as you will spend more of the race on an average lower fuel, hence faster. The no limit could also benefit the clever driver who knows when to match an opponent trying to overtake with high fuel burn, and when not to. It also allows for greater tactics when a lead car which have pitted (fx mercedes HAM) is trying to overtake the teammate (Perez) of the 2nd position (VER). It would allow the teammate to have better blocking opportunity, and not just get passed because of used tyres.
In regards to ignoring road relevance - the premise that restricting fuel rates lead to better racing because racing drivers are more likely to go full-throttle isn't entirely sound. If that were the case, then simply restricting fuel rates so that the driver can go full-throttle with the given fuel reserve is the logical solution. The concern that the optimal strategy turns into coasting in the beginning then boosting at the end exists for any case where the maximum fuel flow rate with the maximum fuel capacity results in a distance less than the race distance (which is the situation now).
Interesting stuff. I never realised, that this kind of thing actually leads to more flat out racing. I understand the economical and ecological concerns, especially when it comes down to longevity of the parts, but never thought it would impact racing on such a positive note.
I would love to see a video about the certain team. I don't get how the situation unfolded how it did, and what the team actually did. Maybe that was the idea though 🤔
It also applies to costs. FIA limit the number of ICUs a team uses per season to keep costs down. High fuel flow means more engine wear and that entails more engines per season, which defeats the purpose of cost savings with limited ICUs.
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2:30 that was too funny man 😂
Had to rewind to make sure I saw it correctly and it was indeed a Euro note rather than a Pound note behind that clip. I'm guessing you put it there because with some travel restrictions still in place, you're not going to use it for a while anyway? 😂
I want to see how a certain team managed to subvert the fuel flow rates. Pretty please :)
I could swear you were the same guy from WTF1 hahahahah
@@segueoyuri “you was”?
"Not even for a split second"
Angry pasta noises
Mama mia !
Scemooooo lol!
Mamma Mia, we musta burna somma oilé instead Mattia!
I would say, why not let there be specific laps, when you'd assume otherwise boring racing to be taking place, to be "unlimited" fuel laps? Say you know that Lap 25 of Monaco is a bore, so you say "on Lap 25, for each car, we disable fuel flow limitations". Would that help at all?
*sad pasta noises to be precise.
Would love to know how the "certain" team did that...
Me too!! Please make the videooo
Same here
The Great 🛑 Master🅱️lan™
To be honest its a pretty simple concept, so might not be very video-worthy.
In a nutshell: the FIA uses a flowmeter to check the fuel usage of the engine, this fuelmeter only measures X times a minute. Ferrari figured out this interval and *increased* the fuel flow whenever the fuelmeter wasn't checking, and lowered it to a lower, legal rate whenever i did check. Redbull suspected Ferrari was doing this, and prettty much asked the FIA "If someone would do this, would this be legal?" which it obviously wasn't.
@@XLRATEable wasn't about burning oil?
Sf90 in the split second is brilliant.
You mean 🅱️rilliant
He got me, not gonna lie
Now i got it.
Men, i am just as slow as the red tractor.
There’s nothing I’ve ever wanted more than a video on how Ferrari subverted the fuel flow regulations
I think wtf1 made one, basically they figured out the intervals where the sensors check the fuel flow, and between those checks they burnt more
@@spibased while I like wtf1 for their podcasts and in summary that's what Ferrari did, you surely don't wanna believe anything from wtf1 that isn't an opinion video. They just thrash out half baked, subparly researched sub 8 min videos for the YT algo gods when they aren't doing their podcasts.
Their oil had a high octane level and they oiled the combustion chambers directly with this oil causing it to burn after lubricating piston rings which produced more power
Think of the pulse setting on a showerhead, but with fuel flow, and you've pretty much figured it out. FIA fuel flow meters check the flow X times every minute, and Ferrari figured out the intervals and dumped more fuel in whenever the meter was essentially not paying attention.
Donut media made a video on this an hour ago
Yes, please give us the "Ferrari cheated this way" video, CB!
No ferrari is so integer. They always follow the rules exactly🤣😂
It ain't cheating if it isn't in the rule books, it's innovation. It's only cheating if you get caught.
@@ZontarDow It was literally in the rulebooks lmao. Sure, only cheating if you don't get caught but lets not pretend it's some incredible innovation that the FIA banned for no reason.
@@ThatGenericName The FIA has banned innovation for decades, the most advanced and "road relevant" F1 cars where in the 90s (and the FIA's constant stifling of innovation makes any claims that F1 has any degree of road relevance fail the straight face test).
Cheating's a part of racing, that's just how it is and nothing will change that.
@@ThatGenericName just like bendy wings. Let's just agree FIA can't regulate sht.
Yes please it would be interesting to see how a "certain team" managed to find a way around the fuel flow limit.
By pulsing the flow rate synchronously with the flow rate sampling. What’s impressive is that the sample rate is 22kHz.
Using Nyquist theorem to f*ck checks is brilliant. Crazy, dirty but brilliant.
Donut Media just did a video on it
ua-cam.com/video/VUvPyCwC7lU/v-deo.html
I wondered if you could use an "inflatable fuel pipe" to create a small storage/buffer tank near the engine and inflate it with fuel when the engine didn't need the full 100L/hour (eg in the braking zone).
The fact that you subtitle these videos properly doesn't go unnoticed or unappreciated.
Think you've got it back to front at 7:25 - fuel is heavy, you go high burn at the start, run your fuel down, then spend longer coasting when you're lighter and faster anyway.
Agreed. Which would arguably add some excitement if teams are running alternative strategies and you spend the end of the race watching Driver A run down Driver B who burnt their fuel for the early lead.
"not even for a split second"
FIA: we don't do that here
Personally I think allowing mega-rich mix would improve tactical viability. Sure you could have the stalemate suggested, but you could also have drivers feigning rich mix or wearing through tires and forcing the opponent into wasting fuel to gain a benefit later in the race. The defender doesn't know when rich mix is going to be used so he either has to overuse his fuel or he will eventually get caught out by it. Ultimately there will be a lot more mind games. No competitive e-sports are ever as simple as "the opponent does x so we mirror them, forever stalemate" - there is always some degree of unknown and some delayed reaction times ruining that mentality. There's no reason to think F1 will be any different. Plus there are more than 2 cars, if you've burnt all your fuel you get overtaken by multiple cars later in the race. Hardly a tactical win even if you keep the position.
The prediction on saving fuel early doesn't seem to fit either. Historically teams have done the polar opposite as fuel gives a weight penalty carried throughout the race. With tire wear such an extreme focus of F1 compared to decades past, and high fuel loads wearing tires more than lower fuel loads, its a safe assumption that the default strategy won't be to sit on a massive weight of fuel for 75% of the race. This just seems like a bunch of simplistic and frankly rushed tactical arguments to claim that fuel limits are more fun to watch. It seems like you started with the conclusion and are looking for arguments to support fuel limits rather than looking at the evidence then finding a conclusion.
Also "different cars at different speeds" seems to be argued as a negative here. Isn't that the goal of a lot of F1. Forcing tire strategy, adding DRS, it all seems to be oriented to having different cars at different speeds. Or in other words, more overtaking. I don't see why its constantly being pushed as a problem in this video.
To be fair, the main argument for the limit was the road relevance, however some people thought well F1 shouldn't have to be road relevant so he examined it from a purely racing perspective. Of course it's more difficult to justify it in that isolated case as with many other F1 things, but he explained it doesn't automatically make the racing better just having additional strategic options and noted the downsides of such regulations.
Also more strategies might sound fun to some, but on the other side there would be a lot more fuel management meaning the cars would have to go through periods where they are going significantly slower. For the people that just want to see drivers keep pushing, this would be crap to watch as the driver would have to do laps with nursing the car and a lot of people already hate that with the tyres currently. Can't please everyone I suppose, so yeah fuel limits aren't inherently making the racing worse.
Personally I'm fine with the fuel limit, Pirelli just needs to bring softer compounds to make more than a single pitstop strategy viable on many circuits and that would be plenty enough of strategic options. Either that or find a way to make refuelling safer and make them do fuel sprints, but it doesn't seem like that is viable still.
We would just have more parades you have teams like Redbull, Merc that are another world faster than the midfield in the turns especially the medium to fast turns, and would run minimal fuel with no threat and then just go full out on the straight. So instead of a parade of tire saving, we would have tire saving and engine modes that would just protect against an overtake which really only happens on the straights. It might help at Monza and Spa but I don't think it would help overall. The RB Merc turn speeds are replicated through the midfield but slower than the top and for the most part have the same turn speeds and so do the backmarkers. If anything you would see the best-funded teams just become even richer. More mechanical grip would be more helpful to get turn speed discrepancies and then drivers would be able to gain more momentum. To your point of guys messing up, it would be more of a race of attrition hoping the car in front has a mechanical issue. I race full races online in Iracing, RFactor, and F12020, and don't forget to change my engine modes and hit DRS I say this only because I am not even close to sniffing the talent these drivers have. Also, do you really want to watch a race for 2 hours hoping for a mistake? I mean these guys rarely screw up on drying tracks with a narrow margin for error on the dryline this may help the first race but the teams would just be on the radio to tell the driver they need to go to engine mode (insert number/letter here) knowing the exact moment they would need to change modes to stay ahead.
Agree with Olivia 100%. The video feels like FIA hired Chainbear to come up with excuses for why fuel flow restrictions are a good thing. He didn't even give a single positive effect removing the restrictions could have. Even the things that would be positive were spun as negatives and safety issues. No restrictions = more strategies, more overtaking, more action, more surprising outcomes.
@MRSchockwave, removing fuel flow limits would not hurt road relevance at all. Having a more efficient engine than your competitors would still give you a big benefit as you could make more total net power from the limited amount of fuel everyone is allowed. More total power generated during a race = higher average speed during a race = more likely to win the race. What I mean is, the more efficient an engine you have, the quicker your lap times will be compared to your competitors while using the same amount of fuel per lap as your competitors.
Things could change if a safety car pop's inn. Could be more of strategy then racing.
You're assuming that F1 teams wouldn't be able to (A) figure out the preferred strategy, (which would put any other strategies in the bin) and (B) that they wouldn't be able to tell or learn exactly when their opponents are full beans. All they might have to see is a lap time or if their driver is near a sudden spike in acceleration or top speed.
Imagine having a fuel flow limit...
This post was posted by Scuderia Ferrari.
Ferrari: *heavy sweating*
2:30
7:00 i think it would be the other way around; go full beans at the start for track position and burning fuel weight so you run lighter for the rest of the race while you conserve
Why don’t you do a video on how to exceed fuel limits under 2021 regulations?
-Not a Ferrari engineer *wink wink
Great video as always!
I definitely want a video on how "some team" "allegedly" managed to get over the fuel flow limit. :)
It's honestly pretty simple: there is a sensor that checks fuel rates every so often. While the sensor isn't checking, the engine takes an extra gulp of fuel.
Think of it like sneaking past guards on a strict patrol path in _Metal Gear Solid_ or a similar game. You hide while the guard is looking down your hallway and move to the next hidey hole while he's not looking.
The tricky part is that in this case the guard looks down the hallway 22,000 times every second. Beating that level of scrutiny is hard.
F1 changed the setup after Red Bull's inquiry to have two sensors, as well as adding a random element to how often they check.
I don't care, if it's called 'megamode', I'll allow it.
Ah the golden times where you could just let it flow like a team did.
And the tanks were twice as big
@@Fred_the_1996 nah. I was actually talking about a certain red colored team with a thing called fuel flow meters
Would love to know how this "certain" team got away with subverting fuel flow rates
Gave the video a like at the "Split Second" mark !!
2:29 Haha, that split-second Ferrari.
It is at 2:30 lol I some how actually paused on that very moment to grab a drink an started crying I was laughing to hard!
I just want to know how chuffed you were when realized the air intake bobbing up and down is the perfect way to show the engine is on. I'm not kidding, I would feel pretty good about it.
When that chart levelled out at the end, you realize how much of a masterclass is your animation and demonstration. As always, thank you for the content and keep it up. Cheers.
I would love to see a video from you on a "certain team" sidestepping the fuel flow regs. Would be great to look at. Love your content as always
in the F1 games I always try to get the amount of fuel to go full beans most of the race (not rich mix all the time but a bit in reserve) and always try to go more than less pit stops, to maximize my own enjoyment, ofcourse some circuits are set on one stop unfortunately
Yes, I personally would like a primer about said certain team and subverting flow rates.
Given not even the FIA are prepared to talk about what that "certain team" got up to. I would love to know.
FIA being run by an ex-Ferrari boss probably isn't great
You’ve just been strolled
Great to see you include FE a bit more in your videos!
Did wonder this, swear you read people’s minds sometimes
7:00 I'm quite sure all teams/cars are going to use as much fuel as they can at the start when everybody is really close and overtaking matters. Then have a lighter car for the rest of the race.
I really enjoy Indycar's refueling as it allows for them to only carry 35kilos of fuel at a time and push harder for longer on the tires. Personally, pitstop drama from fuel rig malfunctions and trying to pass through pitstops is very entertaining to me and I think fire safety technology has come a long way making it much safer than before. Though with how many people there are in an F1 pitbox there's a lot more safety concern with fire
yeah I mean that's why they stopped refuelling because it was insanely dangerous
@@howdareyou41 yeah that’s why I added the part about newer safety technologies because Indy and NASCAR have occasional fueling fires but nobody ever gets hurt in those anymore. It’s much more safe. For example, F1 never did the squirt of water on splashed fuel like Indy does
"Smo-o-o-oke on the water...
BUURRNN!!!!!"
@@Koopzilla24 nobody ever gets hurt anymore? that's what they said about f1 too and then ppl still got hurt and killed. I'm all in favour of making the sport as safe as possible. kinda tired of my heroes being killed in race cars.
@@howdareyou41 if you want the F1 pit lane to be safer you need less than 14 people in the box with cars going in and out. Also having more fuel in the car at a time would mean there’s more to ignite in a worst case scenario crash. We saw how much flames are produced just by what little went up in Grosjean’s crash last year
We want everything you have!
Def want that certain team video! Great work as always
Yes would love to know how "certain" split second team does it.
Quite interested in knowing how the 'certain team' subverted the fuel flow rate
Throwing some shade on a certain red horse. I like it! Another!
Yes, I want to see that ferrari fuel thingy, also if you have some info on what actaully happened and that private agreement would be great
That sure was a happy VW guy that went bouncing by.
That VW badge bounced with pure “I’m overjoyed that CB spent time learning animation” energy
Great video 👍🏻 Would love to see a video on the Ferrari fuel flow saga too
I love when there is an ad within an ad...
Suspicious how ridiculously smooth the video goes if you sponsorblock the ad
Another complex topic made simple with easy-to-understand graphics and explanations. Well done!
Great video as always.
And yes, I would like the story of how a certain team subverted the fuel flow rules.
Great video, Stuart! I agree about limiting the fuel flow, although I believe F1 would benefit from a ruge where all teams must start the race with full tank, 110 kg, no matter what circuit they’re racing on. And please, make the video about the Ferrari trick. Cheers
I started watching F1 at the start of this season and find your content really informative. Really helps me understand the sport better, thanks!
I appreciate the Formula E explanation as well.
As a fan of a "certain" team: I'd love to see a video on that
You marked the coast sections of the Berlin E-Prix wrong as it goes counter clockwise under normal circumstances. But nice, that you thought of that one-off reverse layout from last year :D
2:28 I see what you did there you smart man
This makes me think what if FIA sets different fuel flow rate limit each track. Would it be possible?
They'd need to calibrate the limiters for each track. It's a hassle.
For the FIA this would be absolutely no problem. But for the engine manufacturers this would mean they'd have to develop separate engine mappings and possibly even different hardware parts for each track.
So it would massively increase development costs, without adding any benefit to the sport.
@@samiraperi467 no they wouldn’t, they have fuel flow sensors that monitor the flow rate, they don’t actually have a restrictor which limits the fuel flow.
Yet again, excellent, technical content with proper science, Stuart...
I've often asked myself that question, why not just entirely leave it up to the teams but your explanation makes perfect sense. Thanks a lot!
Yes, we want the fuel flow video for a certain team.
That’d be a big “Hell Yeah!” to the suggested video on ‘cheating?!????’ ‘scandal’
thank you for the subtitles! it's very important for people who don't have english as their mother language
This also addresses the “party mode” kerfuffle from last year: why not do what Super Formula does? Have a normal engine mode where the fuel flow 100kg/hr limit is in place, but allow 2-3 super mode activations per race where they can use a higher fuel flow limit for several dozen seconds. Add the airbox lights so fans and drivers know when certain cars are on berserk mode.
Yes please Stuart to the 'subverting the fuel flow limit' video. Cheers.
I would like to know about the 2019 fuel trickery by the guys in red, thanks for asking!
We need that "certain team" video
Yes I would be very happy if I could see how a _certain_ team got around that rule, yes
what a brilliant and wonderfully concise video. bravo.
I was of the opinion that cars should have no maximum fuel flow rate and teams should be given much less fuel to begin with, but this video has changed my mind. Fuel flow is fine how it is.
Something else regarding this, however is that I think the team should be able to control the cars engine and ers modes. It would allow the drivers to just concentrate on driving and not have to be guided through how to control their own car. Give the drivers an override button so that team orders aren't 100% enforced. I think the racing would benefit from this.
I think qualifying would be also a problem. Without the fuel flow limit there would be a hyperpartymode as it was in the first turbo era. The famous 1400 hp BMW engine was an qualifying engine. We can only imagine what power level can be reached with 2021 technology. So other types of limitations would be introduced, as the maximum turbo pressure and so on.
The simple fuel flow limit a simple solution for a lot of concerns.
That was a brilliant video. I did not ever think of the details that you gave in this video but yet had the same question. Please make that video that you are referring to about that unnamed team
I'm not sure I agree with all this, some of it makes sense but not all. Many of the hypotheses you used to argue against free fuel flow is just that; hypotheses. We don't know how the racing would pan out. I think the logic answer is that teams would calculate how to reach the finish of the race with the given amount of fuel in the shortest possible time, like they do for tire strategy, and then alter that on the fly depending on what actually happens during the race. To me that would be super interesting. If one team starts pushing hard early on, do others stick to their plan knowing they will be faster over-all that way, or do they follow suit? Not being able to defend because you burned off your fuel already, or being able to push late on because you have been conservative in the early stages. I think we might actually see a lot of overtaking that way. The worst that would happen is probably that everyone always just goes for pretty much the same strategy, which isn't any worse than what we have now... The teams are simply too good these days for much interesting chaos to occur regularly.
Yes!!!!!!
please a video on the fuel flow controversey
Indeed! If I had my way I'd go all the way and change F1 from an engine to a fuel formula:
-Everybody has to run the same standardised fuel.
-From the end of Qualifying everybody gets, say, a maximum of 100kg of fuel to spend in the race as wished. You are entirely free to develop your power unit and strategy to fit within that envelope.
At a stroke fuel development costs are eliminated, innovation is promoted, and current PUs remain viable for those who want to keep using them.
Better yet with no room to develop fuels there will be less pressure to incrementally develop PUs at great expense for little reward - once you are happy with your concept there will be little reason to keep at it.
There's a limit on energy recovery. Some teams may by pass it and pump more energy in the battery using KERS.
I wish schools explain the learning material as well as you do!
Thank you, Chain Bear!!!
ok, you've convinced me on the F1 side of things.
But with EVs not really being where we want them to be right now in terms of road cars, I think Formula E should allow full motor and battery development. FE should really be pushing for road relevance and they're not.
Racing with limited energy and regeneration Percentage of 35 to 40 %?? What more do you want?? I'm currently working on Electric buses and best they can achieve is 25 to 30% regeneration. Batteries should be opened up as they are the bottle neck not the motors
@@alokapte7308 that's what i mean, open it all up.
Much respect bc at the start of this video I was certain a flow cap was a stupid idea which harmed racing, and 9 mins later I’m certain it isn’t.
Donut Media did a very good video about Ferrari "tricking" the fuel flow sensor, but maybe you could add more details on it. And I like when you related the tech with the sport side of things.
I need to see your proposed video on that split second team.
I’m in absolute stitches. “Spunk all your fuel away” LOL
The part that is missed is the cost element. If fuel flow was unrestricted there would not be a limit to the power that could be achieved with a turbo engine. That would trigger a development race to make stronger internals and maximize air flow into the engine. The other part is with regards to safety, not just speed differential. There is a desire to cap power output as tracks and tires would need to be changed.
really nice to see the formula e comparison!
That would be brilliant if you could make that video in the future, absolutely love your channel, keep up the great work, thank you 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
very cheeky output on the rate per second.
Yes please, I'd love to know how a certain team pranced around the regs!
Donut Media literally released the ferari video today unfortunately :(
If you want *other* video ideas though, I'd love to see more on strategy (you could of course reference the merc strategy win in spain and the monaco strategy excellence from redbull and Aston Martin), or a speculative video on what cars will look like next year.
Or if you want to do a "how it works" type-thing, it could be neat to learn about the steering setups and what ratios/sizes they use and what mechanisms there are to allow steering post-crash etc.
I was looking away at the "Not even for a split second" moment, but know exactly what to expect when I went back a few seconds... 😂😂
2:30 subtle
Very similar to restrictor plates in NASCAR, although that was more to reduce average lap speeds in the name of safety.
I am still laughing hard at the nearly-subliminal Ferrari that popped up at a special moment.
But is it possible for some teams to exceed this maximum fuel flow rate? And if so, how?
ferrari
@@gp-oi5nt yes, mate. I was being sarcastic 😂
They need a minimum amount of fuel in parc ferme, when the cars are weighed or you are disqualified, look what happened to Ticktum in Monza F2 race last year
That split second just gave you a sub chainbear
G'wan, tell us how Ferrari subverted the fuel-flow regs then, you know you want to. ;)
full beans at the end actually sounds really good
This is very useful, thanks for making this. I was wondering a lot about this.
Wouldn't it still be a better strategy to keep fuel consumption steady, instead of the low/high strategy.
Things like air resistance will increase exponentially with speed and the brakes will need to bleed more energy to slow down for corners if you go fast. So one fast lap might require two slow laps to compensate. That means that the average lap time will be longer.
So if other cars employ the low/high strategy while you use a steady power and we ignore other factors like weather. In the first half of the race you will take the lead and then increase your lead because you are going faster than the other cars. It the second half the race the other cars will be going faster than you and start closing the distance, but they should never be able to catch you if you both have the same amount of fuel.
Im not sure I agree that drivers/teams would conserve the fuel in the first part of the race without the limit.
On circuits where overtakin is hard, getting out into free air is very important, hence a lead car would like to create a big enough gap to seperate to allow for a pitstop and come out ahead of the midfield teams.
Burning the fuel early also gives you a faster overall time as you will spend more of the race on an average lower fuel, hence faster.
The no limit could also benefit the clever driver who knows when to match an opponent trying to overtake with high fuel burn, and when not to.
It also allows for greater tactics when a lead car which have pitted (fx mercedes HAM) is trying to overtake the teammate (Perez) of the 2nd position (VER). It would allow the teammate to have better blocking opportunity, and not just get passed because of used tyres.
In regards to ignoring road relevance - the premise that restricting fuel rates lead to better racing because racing drivers are more likely to go full-throttle isn't entirely sound. If that were the case, then simply restricting fuel rates so that the driver can go full-throttle with the given fuel reserve is the logical solution. The concern that the optimal strategy turns into coasting in the beginning then boosting at the end exists for any case where the maximum fuel flow rate with the maximum fuel capacity results in a distance less than the race distance (which is the situation now).
Awesome. ANd for sure lets see that Ferrari fuel flow video!
Interesting stuff. I never realised, that this kind of thing actually leads to more flat out racing. I understand the economical and ecological concerns, especially when it comes down to longevity of the parts, but never thought it would impact racing on such a positive note.
I would love to see a video about the certain team. I don't get how the situation unfolded how it did, and what the team actually did. Maybe that was the idea though 🤔
It also applies to costs. FIA limit the number of ICUs a team uses per season to keep costs down. High fuel flow means more engine wear and that entails more engines per season, which defeats the purpose of cost savings with limited ICUs.
Yessss do the certain team thingy!
Thanks for this video. I never thought of it that way