Maxine Hanks edited a book about feminism and was excommunicated. Her spiritual journey back
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- Опубліковано 23 вер 2023
- "I had been serving in a private chapel for 13 years and when I came back into the ward and sat there and felt the Spirit of the body of Christ in that ward I just started sobbing, I couldn't stop crying. It felt like I was immersed in an ocean of love and light because the body of Christ is so alive in Mormonism and in sacrament meeting."
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I absolutely loved this episode. I am sharing it with my female Sisters who are struggling with feminism (or lack of) in the church. Thank you SO much for telling us of your journey.
Thank you Marla...I'm SO glad this helped you!
The best part is that Maxine had every reason to maintain a life-long attitude of bitteness, and by returning she has demonstrated humility and letting God prevail in her life, following direction of the Spirit. I also returned, after 32 years away.
Would love to hear your story if you are willing to share email ashly.comebackpodcast@gmail.com
If you don't know all the details, then you have no idea if she really had reason to be bitter or not. We haven't heard the other side of the story of why she was excommunicated.
@@nonrepublicrat Well, lemjwp1756 is exactly right...
I did have plenty of reason to be bitter...but I chose not to be, at all. I did tell the "other side of the story" why I was excommunicated. I did not deserve to be excommunicated... But rather than spend my life blaming the church, I focused on the positive side of leaving, and found healing avenues of grace. Otherwise I would not have accomplished anything...
I can’t help but think that her ancestor, Ephraim Hanks had something to do with yet another rescue, this time, his own family. Her story is just such a miracle and beautiful. Thank you for sharing this.
That’s an insightful comment. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you Joe, this is so beautiful, and I honestly had that sense, that he was there helping me. I had researched his life for years, and always felt very close to him, but I really felt him with me at that time.
I've long since struggled with modern secular feminism. I honestly believe they hate men more than they truly care about women. So hearing the term made me bristle a little initially, I was curious but just...very suspicious. Growing up, I didn't even know sexism was a thing, I just assumed everyone liked girls more than boys. My sisters were treated better, always told they were so mature, asked to babysit, etc, in church, leaders would always tell us to be more like the girls who were quiet and mature (they were rarely more mature, just better at hiding immaturity), at school I was always told that girls are smarter and mature quicker, I even noticed certain language patterns, where if something is really valued it will be referred to as "she" or "her"... obviously, I'm aware of sexism and whatnot now, I care deeply about my mother and my sisters, etc etc, women are vitally important in the plan of happiness/salvation.
This woman impressed me greatly, she has such humility, she went through a clearly unfair or unfortunate situation, but didn't become bitter. She has a drive for truth, and she truly cares about women, our sisters on this earth. She has such a unique perspective and I'm glad we have people like her and David Alexander in the fold. Strong spirits. She's totally right as well, there's a unique brand of feminism (not a term I would typically use, but fitting) found within the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Women have divine identities and divine potential, they have an incredible responsibility to the world in these, the last, days. I'm sure there's things that we'd disagree on, but we absolutely agree that everyone has a place in the Church and Christ should be the center of our lives; that's more important than anything. I was really comforted by her saying she had no interest in introducing secular ideas into the gospel doctrine, rather making people aware of the unique beauty of what we have.
I hope I communicated all this correctly. This was a surprise for me, but it was a pleasant one. I sincerely hope to see more women come to terms with their divine identities and join us! 🙏
I think there's a need to reckon honestly with the resentment and antagonism that has driven the big political Feminist movements of the past 50 years. "Feminism" is not a really clear word and using it always calls for some qualification. I think that needs to be acknowledged honestly by everybody, particularly when there is a lot of necessary advocacy for women's interests that even "anti-feminists" can support. Have you read Mary Harrington?
@@TrebizondMusic-cm6fp I'm not familiar with her. To clarify, I'm not "anti-feminist" or anything, I just know it's a lie when they say they want to help men as well. They're much more interested in blaming men for every societal ill and demoralizing young men, even demonizing them. I used to argue with those types way back when, but it was never constructive 😂
As I said before, I love all the women in my life and want them to be safe and happy. I think anything that educates and protects women is fantastic. I'm aware that feminist is a broad term and that there are different focuses and degrees of severity. I think the sex wars are a purposefully driven means of division, and definitely something we need to overcome, we well and truly NEED each other! I just don't think I'd ever call myself a feminist and I've had mostly awful experiences with those who do. These days I don't really dedicate much time to that stuff, I have different focuses. As for reading, I love it, and I'm always willing to hear people out and consider different perspectives...any specific recommendations from that author? I'll check her out 🤙
@@JazzyUnderscoreTrumpeter Mary Harrington's Substack, "Reactionary Feminist" is good, so is her recent book _Feminism Against Progress._ She's been making the rounds on internet interview shows lately; I liked her interviews on Triggernometry and with Chris Williamson.
Erika Bacchiochi is a Catholic, pro-life feminist; her site is called Fairer Disputations (Harrington contributes).
My exit from feminism went hand-in-hand with perceiving the dishonesty in claims that "feminism is all about equality." To make a long story short, I realized that this was a stupid way to define a word that, whatever other uncertainties in meaning, should at least mean a focus on women. My entry into considering myself a feminist had been largely facilitated by Camille Paglia (her masterpiece _Sexual Personae_ is still one of my favorite books) and Mary Wollstonecraft - who feminists like to claim as a founder, but her arguments predate the use of the word "feminism" or the movements as they developed after the mid-19th century. Erika Bacchiochi has given some good interviews about what Wollstonecraft was really saying, and it has very little to do with the _Ms_ Magazine-style Feminism of the late 20th century.
Anyway, to wrap this up, of course I'm in favor of protecting and advancing the interests of women, but in order to do that right it's important to be clear about what those interests are, and do it in a way that isn't polluted with resentment and antagonism. When people speak against feminism, they're generally calling out that resentment and antagonism that has soaked into the political and cultural movements that most proudly claimed the name, and made them stink.
@@TrebizondMusic-cm6fp That's fair, the fundamental idea is valid, but the practice has been corrupted. I wrote down those suggestions, thanks for the reply 🙏
Well said, Elias, in both your comments and replies. I loved this episode because it opened my eyes to see more clearly and better understand, and I can appreciate Sister Hanks journey and rejoice in the outcome. Also very informative about the Gnostic denominations today.
Just saying the word "feminism" made me bristle because of it's history and controversy. I liked how Maxine describes it now and how she realized intellectually and from the Spirit that the Restored Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, along with our dear sisters and their place in it, was a real Restoration of Christ's church as set up with the Former▪︎day Saints.
She impressed me. I have not step my foot in church for over 30 years. She made me think, I appreciate the connections she has discovered with feminism and the church
wow, I am so glad this helped you 🙂
Thank you Maxine and Ashly. Maxine, there is no doubt the church and world need you to help them become more informed and heal from hurtful misunderstandings and ignorance. I look forward to learning more from from you. I loved your witness that the restoration is a lot more than the simple, limited, and traditional ways we looking at it. There are far more facets to it than we realize. Thank you for opening up our view to another beautiful and profound perspective.
So the church leaders need Maxine to educate them and tell them what they should be doing? Yeah, right.
@@nonrepublicrat No one believes that ...
We all need each other to be more aware and informed....
Gosh, that is very generous of you @echandlerchilds I'm just one person doing my small part, in a huge church of countless hardworking and inspired leaders, men and women, and employees and scholars and historians. 🙂 I try to find direction for my own path and hope I'm doing what I can and should be doing.
Your podcast gives me hope for some of my family members. ❤
Thank you Maxine. This is exactly what I needed to hear today. May our Heavenly Parents bless you in your important work.
Thank you, may they bless you too !
“I could talk forever.” Please do! What a wonderful interview ❤
Your testimony was so peaceful to me. I’ve always felt very ‘feminine’ growing up in the church. I attribute a lot to my dad and my husband because we were revered not downcast. At the same time I don’t put either myself ‘above’ the men either. I’ve never felt the need for superiority. I love the perspective you have brought up here! Thank you!!!
That is very nice for me to hear, thank you! I try to be a peacemaker.
I cannot help but feel that Maxine now has such a unique perspective and such a beautiful, strong skill set in interfaith work--she will bless everyone that she's around in wonderful ways. ❤
gosh, that is so kind, thank you for your encouragement.
as one of the few men who took the time to listen to this testimony, I just want to say that I couldn't agree more with the conclusions she came to on her journey. Women DO and should hold a relevant place in our organizations.
And, while it's disappointing that we cut off those with whom we disagree or don't understand, I have my own testimony that the Lord knows what he is doing and, in the words of Benjamin Franklin, "People will sometimes get it wrong. But they will, after a time, correct it". Very glad that there is a podcast like this to put things in proper perspective
Thank you Matthew, this is so well said, and it really means a lot to me.
Wow. This is a good one. Maxine- I love you! I feel well taught. Thank you for sharing your story. Ashly, thank you for bringing her on. ❤
So kind of you @ericabase I'm so happy it was helpful.
This is why I think Joseph was sealing the different married women to himself, to connect them to the Priesthood so they could work in the temple. Mary Lighter was married to a non Mormon and needed that connection.
Actually, the endowment/priesthood and marriage/polygamy were entirely separate, they didn't have anything to do with each other. Joseph (and Emma) ordained & inducted women directly into the ministry and the priesthood, so women had direct access to the priesthood themselves, they didn't need to go through a man or their husband to be connected to the priesthood.
Joseph didn't bring polygamy into the temple endowment at all, he brought couples of 1 man 1 women, and several singles without a partner, into the temple endowment. So what changed and put women's priesthood under men's authority and brought polygamy into the temple -- was changes made by Brigham Young after Joseph died.
However, I agree with you that Joseph was sealed to several women for a spiritual partnership -- to include both male and female access to the divine in bringing forth new revelations ...I just wish he had not taken that spiritual partnership into physical relations, which was a mistake.
I know that most of these women became part of the Holy Order which met weekly. However we have to be careful with the terminology, it wasn't always set in stone at that time.
With the building of the Nauvoo temple Joseph needed women who could perform the temple ceremonies and act within the Priesthood authority. But that does not mean Joseph was ordaining woman to the Priesthood.
@@NancyBrown-xw8hg Actually, Joseph did ordain women, directly, in several ways, and he used the word "ordain." In 1830 Emma was "ordained" to highest church office, and in 1842 she was "ordained" as President of the R.S. as were her counselors. And in 1843-44, Emma and other women were "ordained" to the "fullness of priesthood" themselves, directly as "priestess to the most High God," not to their husbands or through his priesthood. Those are the exact words in the original sources.
However, yes, I agree with you that we have to be careful how we state this --- because women were never ordained to male offices and orders, they were not ordained to the Aaronic or Melchizedek orders-- they were ordained to female offices and orders of priesthood, and to the inclusive temple Holy Order of priesthood.
I'm always careful when I say that women were ordained to the priesthood--it was not to the male orders & offices, the male side of priesthood, it was to the female side of priesthood. Neither side was the fullness of priesthood, which Joseph said that men and women would only receive in the temple Endowment, the Holy Order of the Priesthood, which was the fullness.
Wow!!!! What a POWERFUL POWERFUL episode! One of my favorites! Thank you both for sharing!
So happy you found it powerful for you, that makes me feel like I'm accomplishing something. 🙂
Beautiful. So glad she decided to come back. We know that there is continuing revelation and more knowledge to be poured out on the heads of the Latter Day Saints. So glad that an intellectual woman and feminist still was able to feel and follow the influence of the Holy Ghost and experience the wonder of belonging to the body of Christ.
Thank you, that means a lot.
Maxine you need a podcast!!!! We need more at this stage and season in the church and history of the world and the restoration. We need your voice, experience and love of Christ as we prepare for the 2nd coming of Christ. Amazing. ♥️🙌♥️
Maxine thank you for sharing your beautiful story. I am Jana Spangler's sister and have heard so many wonderful things about you.❤
Wonderful!
Thank you Maxine! Your journey is amazing! I have kept my feelings and knowledge of these issues to myself for nearly 40 years now! Having felt a powerful warning that sharing this could push me out of the church. I felt comfort in the assurance that with time and further restoration all these truths would be restored (again)! You have helped this to happen! My heart aches for the trials and burdens you have had to bear! God be with you! ❤️❤️❤️
That is so kind of you, thank you, I admit it has not been easy, but I'm hanging in there, and I love seeing how women's status has been improving and progressing. And how much more free we have been these last 15 years to finally talk about all these issues and topics in public. We have a vibrant religious culture .
Love you both sisters thanku for sharing your spritual testimony i dont have much to say but the spirit touch my heart thanku
that is the best thing I could hope for ♥
Loved this! Everyone belongs. I've lost a couple of neices because of this issue. Our family is heartbroken. I'm sending this to my sister to share with her daughters.
Everyone does belong, this is a gospel of inclusion. 🙂
This episode was amazing!
Amazing Maxine!! I wish this episode was longer. I want to read your book. Thank you for coming back and bringing your contributions and healing with you ❤❤❤❤
Thank you, I love the way you put that, I brought my contributions and healing with me, I do see it that way as well. 🙂
Thank you for this beautiful episode. Love your experiences and insights Maxine. Everyone has their own journey and yours is fascinating and powerful. Sending love ❤
thank you !
Ephraim’s Rescue is such a great movie. What an amazing man he was.
Great show ladies.
I served my mission in 79-80 and one of my favorite companions left the church because of the way we/she were treated as sister missionaries.
I bit my tongue but vented to my mother in my letters home. She (a woman who never let anyone use her as a doormat) called the church and spoke with Carlos E Asay. LOL. She raised some cain and Elder Asay called my mission president and set him straight on a few things. It was tough back then for women like us. I broke up with my fiancé when he called me “help meat”.😂😂😂 Adios dude. Ain’t happenin’!
I could have easily been in your shoes, Maxine. But I figured things would change eventually so I “back-burnered” it. I waited until I was 27 to marry because the MCP’s back then turned me off. Finally found a man who appreciated me for who I was-been married 40 years now.
I agree, Eph was an amazing man. 🙂 Yes, it was very hard to be a sister missionary in the 1970s... I almost gave up and left, but then God sent people to convince me to stay. I'm glad you found support from your Mom, she sounds amazing. And glad you found a good man who appreciates you.
I joined the Church in 1977, from a pentacostal house church, in Northern Virginia. I remember the uproar, and how sad I was that it had led to excommunication. Welcome back! Perhaps you were just too early, but you were on the right path.
I am proud of the progress the church has made. It gives another meaning to "true and living". Given the church's history of persecution and exilation. It seems it has taken a long time to heal as an organization, given it's mistrust of perceived scrutiny. We are at a better place now. I love this church. I am grateful to be a member in a brighter day and look forward to even greater things in the future.
Me too.. 🙂
Thank you for this session! Excavate & Recover! ❤And yes, we /I need to learn how to minister better.
Agreed !
What a cool journey! Thank you for sharing.
Maxine, you have truly taught me today more about faith, hope, and charity. Thank you for your perspectives.
I'm so glad I could be of help !
Fascinating to learn about the feminit in the early church. That is such an important doctrine. Mankind is created in the image of God, MALE AND FEMALE, both commanded to cleave to each other, and become one flesh in heart and mind. This unity of man and woman is essential to Godhood.
Elohim being both a name and a plural term implies that God is not just a perfected man or woman, but is rather a perfected couple. This is why polygamy and adultery is an abomination because it completely undermines our ability to achieve the marital unity necessary to fulfill the measure of our creation.
I agree, and Genesis tells us this -- God is male and female, and the Gods (both male and female deities) created human beings in their own image. So we have a divine Mother as well as a Father.
Thank you for coming back we need you,and I am sorry that what you went through 😢😊👏👏👏
Thank you, that is very kind.
What an enlightening podcast. So many insights were shared. My heart has been lifted and your story will resonate with so many. Maxine your journey through all you’ve studied and participated in will help hundreds over the years. Bless you.
That is very kind, I hope my efforts can help others.
This is so awesome. Definitely one of the most amazing and insightful UA-cam episodes of any channel I’ve ever seen. Thank you both!
Gosh that is So Kind, I'm grateful if I can be of help to others.
What an incredible journey. I thank Maxine for sharing all her studies and experiences. I for one believe that anyone who keeps on peeling back the layers of history will inevitably discover that all truth came from the same source. I'm sad for people who see something negative just jump off the wagon and quit discovering the treasures that lay deeper. I believe in Jesus Christ and his true church on earth.
I agree GrandpappyJim and the Dalai Lama said the same thing when he visited Salt Lake in 2001 🙂
Beautiful!
You are a WONDERFUL and amazing woman! God bless you forever!
Thank you, Maxine, for your story and testimony. I loved this!
Excellent interview and enlightening faith journey. This really affected me. Thanks.
I'm so glad it helped you!
That was absolutely amazing! I love Jesus so much! ❤
Another fascinating episode, thank you! I have never felt...er..."second class" (for want of a better term) in our church; I seem to have always known and/or felt, instinctively, about the feminine/feminist aspects of the gospel and the church. I wish so many of the women I know/know of could listen to Maxine and know that they are "not one whit behind" ANYone. There's a lot of rubbish being circulated about the church's supposed bad attitude to women and it's being spread by both men and women. So, so, sad. I hope Maxine's story helps redress some balance. 😊
Absolutely! I feel that as women strive to understand the origins of feminine priesthood power, as taught in the temple, they would never feel anything negative about our roles. We are necessary to the Plan of Happiness! ❤
I too hope we can see and hold onto the best parts of our tradition, the truly empowering parts, while letting go of the mistakes of the past. I agree about finding healing and balance, we need to see and hold fast to the good, while ceasing the harms we do to each other.
So beautiful. Thank you for sharing such a fascinating and profound journey!
Thank you 🙂
Wow! My spirit literally rose up inside me and gave what felt like a standing ovation when she said that our church contains the fullness of what we need to make the ascent toward God. What a beautiful, beautiful plan our Father has for us.
Thank you, I feel the same way when I think about the amazing LDS spiritual initiation and formation path, the ecclesiastical ladder of all our ordinances, in both the lower and higher sacraments of our faith.
Thank you Maxine!!
I love this. I am having my 19 year old son listen to these as he is going to be serving his mission in Utah and will interact with people that have had faith crisis’s and may be a tool in the Lord’s hands to invite a reframing on the path to full fellowship again.
A true pioneer!
🧡thank you
Thats a clever sister 🙏 interesting how the "church" have changed in culture and now is accepting things we dident in the 90 ties. Thank you for 'coming back' its awsome 🙏❤️
Thank you for this interview. I love Maxine's story and yes she has a mission to fulfill to build bridges and to teach us of our early Christian feminist roots which Joseph Smith restored.
I would love to do more with this connection, there is so much to see, but Nibley understood a lot of this and talked about it.
This episode was incredibly insightful! Thank you both for such a wonderful conversation. I need to confess that at times, Maxine’s explanation of things was so complex (to me) that I had to keep rewinding to really understand what she was saying. Thank you Maxine! I personally have a love and sacred admiration for Heavenly mother. She is mentioned in my patriarchal blessing and I really treasure that. Thank you Ashley for creating this podcast! I basically watch it any time I get a few moments to myself. ❤
Wow I am so glad I found this episode. I love this because I have been listening to Margaret Barker and how the divine feminine was removed from the Old Testament. Although I am not a “feminist” I know we do have a mother in Heaven and I have always felt so valued in the church. I was aware of the September 6 and I am so thrilled to hear Maxine’s experience. Several others members of Sept 6 came back, hallelujah.
thank you, I think the church and its amazing theology is big enough for all of us, at least that's how Joseph felt, and tried to minister. I love Margaret Barker's work, she''s helped to illuminate some positive aspects of LDS theology.
Maxine thank for your story is so inspiring and powerful, I listened your story like ten times now my testimony is so much stronger, thank you for coming back, my Savior needs you to inspire those who need this kind of faith in their lives in the Savior !!!
Wow, thank you, this is very gratifying to hear! I am glad my experiences are helpful for you! I really agree that our faith in God is what sustains us and opens new paths. I'm just a human trying to hear the voice of God in my life and follow it... 🙂
Thank you so much! I will listen to this often. I also left and came back. I missed Priesthood!
would love to hear your story if you are interested in sharing! Email ashly.comebackpodcast@gmail.com
This is such a tremendous episode!! I knew many of those six individuals who were excommunicated, but I did not know the back story. Thank you so much!
Thanks, we all sincerely were trying to help the Church, but it was too much info too soon, before the church was ready... I'm glad things have improved since then. But I wish we could do more, there is still a lot of healing work needed.
When you feel rejected make sure you are not the one rejecting, like rejecting God because you refuse to humble yourself
Thanks for coming on the podcast, Maxine. Excited to have a big gun with us.
Thanks is so kind 🙂 It was an honor to join this podcast.
Thank you for this beautiful video.
Wonderful episode, thank you.
Oh I’m getting so many chills as I listen to these confirmations about the significance profundity ennobling truths that Joseph restored. . Thank you! So much! I’ve just been on a divine feminine reading adventure with Francine rivers and Sue Monk-Kidd. I hope they have a chance to hear your insights. Thank you so much for your honest and true journey out and back to this true path of discipleship 🙏🤩🙌🏼 in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints 😍
We really Do have a very profound religious tradition that we need to recognize far more and appreciate and embody far better.
Wow
Love your content! It builds faith and strengthens this dreary world! 🔥
This is my second comment but I just feel like Maxine’s journey is so timely. God has such a special mission for her at this time in the restoration. Gave me chills listening to her! Wish I could hear more of her story
Thank you, I know I need to write and speak more, I will try to do that 🙂
You mentioned rediscovering our own origins, referring to the church. It just reminded me that each one of us is rediscovering our own personal origins as were progress through this life.
I agree!
Wow! THANK YOU! 🥰
Ephraim Hanks rescued my ancestors and he rescued me through his beautiful granddaughter. I also studied the gnostic texts years ago.
That's so great he was there for your people, this is so beautiful, thank you!
Wonderful inspiring episode - what a journey: the honesty, the humility, the vision and the so deep scope of knowledge of the restoration - thank you so much- EXTRAORDINARILY ENCOURIGING AND PRECISE EXPRESSION
Thank you for your kind compliments, I'm an introvert and I get nervous doing public presentations, and I can get lost in details, and worry if I'm making sense, or clear enough, so I'm very heartened to know that my words were clear for you!
Such interesting life experiences she’s passed through. Beautiful testimony.
The church can get it wrong and it takes time for the Lord to straighten us out. Thank goodness you took the time to recognize how more like the "ancient" church we are. I am so glad to see the church moving in an inclusion way. My heart breaks for those who got lost along the way.
Thanks, it really does take a lot of work and a long time to sort through all these issues and listen to inner guidance to figure it out... it's an ongoing work in process. 🙂
Dear Maxine, I was very impressed by the things you said and the things I felt while you said them. Thank you for coming back and thank you for accepting healing and not holding on to grudges. I also feal for those that are in this groupe you told us about that were excommunicated. Please pass along to them as well, that we need them? Thank you!
Thank you for your insight about letting go of grudges, that is so vital to healing. And thank you for your compassionate words about our whole group, I will pass those along to others. We surely needed support and comfort. You have a caring soul.
Ephraim's Rescue is the best church history film! The actor is a descendent (I believe) and has made a movie that's coming to theaters December 8th; The Oath
The actor isn't related to Eph but he did a great job of playing him.
I totally agree with Maxine! The most egalitarian feminist worship and priesthood is found in our church. So glad she proved to herself that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the true restored, Christ-centered body of Jesus Christ, our Heavenly Father and Mother. So glad that we can be our own individual and as we strive to become Christ-like in our faith, ministering, and serving others we do not judge one another. All are wanted, loved, and respected as we build our relationships with one another and God. We are all divine, valued and loved by Heavenly parents, who we can strive to emulate, despite our shortcomings.
I loved this wonderful interview with the erudite, loquacious, faithful, educated historian, and feminist - Maxine! ❤❤❤
Thank you, our church really was designed to be a true partnership between the genders and that original blueprint or template is still there, but it wasn't finished, due to the martyrdom and move west, but it survives underneath alterations over the years, and just needs full recovery, re-alignment, and to finish fleshing it out.
WOW! Amazing! ❤️☀️
I absolutely love Ephraim’s Rescue.
What little I've known about Maxine has come from years and years of listening to John Dehlin at Mormon Stories. John was a devout member at one time. Despite how outspoken he's been against the church, I've always hoped and prayed that he'd find his way back. Maxine's story is one of a disciple of Christ who sought truth independent of a religious body. The story of her excommunication, which is fairly well known in certain circles, compared to her own account of personal restoration and returning to the church, should be heralded as one of the most beautiful conversion and "come back" stories maybe ever. Her scholarly background, independent intellect and spirit are all intact and she and we are all the more blessed because of her and those like her. Wow! Thank you so much for such a wonderful, faith-promoting story.
I agree with you 100% thank you for this comment. Maxine is indeed incredible.
wow, this is SO kind of you, one of the most insightful compliments I've ever received. Thank you, for understanding that my journey was that of "a disciple of Christ who sought truth independent of a religious body." I prayed for direction during and after excommunication, and it was there for me, every step of the way. I loved my path and my time outside just as much as my return. I love them both, as divinely led. I truly experienced that my intellect and spirit both remained intact for the whole journey. I am blessed by your insights, which are rare and healing.
❤️❤️
Women have been talked into forgetting their value.
Think, what was the apex of the creation? Still thinking?
It is the presentation of Eve to Adam. The Mother of all living to the first Man.
Wish I could tell you what I learned while dying twice.
Women standing is not feminism, it’s standing as a partner.
Love you all. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is true and all my Sisters are equal, if not superior, in it.
I wish you could share what you learned and experienced! Were there some things you were told not to share?
Thanks!
Thank you so much!
Ashly I’ve been sending all the haters to your channel 😂. The ones who are all over the church because of Ruby Franke and Jodi Hildabrand. They keep talking about all they have learned from people like Mormon Stories. So I’ve been telling them if they want to see a truthful podcast about the church they should come to your channel.
Right on Ramona, those podcasts are so manipulative, and it annoys the heck out of me 👍
Ditto! I get so angry with the ‘Korrihor’ channels spreading crap and negativity. Thank you, Ashly, for this inspiring channel 👍🏻👍🏻
@@ThreeD.s I’ve been watching one called Ward Radio with some guys from the church. Also one of the guys wives will be on. They are pretty funny and love to take the antis on.
I get irritated when the main guy keeps bashing my boomer generation and saying a lot of negative things come from my generation. Like we were and are too straight laced. That tells me he hasn’t really done his research on boomers. I seem to remember hippies, Woodstock, the summer of love 😂 They will bash Utah “Mormons” too, making sure people know they are California “Mormons” I grew up in Oregon and was baptized there. I came to Utah after my college graduation. So I’ve seen both sides of that. I can tell you what it all comes down to is your Attitude. You want to find something negative about Utah and the members here you will. If you think where you live makes you a superior member of the church, then you are far from it. But like I said they are funny.and very well versed in our doctrine. They invite anti Mormons on all the time but I’m not sure any of them have come on.
@@ramonasmith5893 I’ll check it out. Thanks 👍🏻
@@ThreeD.sTotally agree with your assessment.
One of my favorite movies. Ephraims rescue.
Maxine Hanks and I have a common ancestor! Mary Field Garner is my 4th great grandmother! That’s so cool!
wow I love this, Mary was such a precious woman, I love her, and there is a book about her on Amazon by another descendant.
❤
I remember hearing the acronym ERA (equal rights amendment) and feminism in the late 1970s.
I was in junior high.
Zero LDS women and zero of the military wives worked outside the home at Fort Bragg and Fayetteville, North Carolina.
Many of the women went to the “march on Washington” and gave speeches. (Against ERA.)
July 9, 1978
It was a huge deal back then.
It was indeed a huge deal back then, we've lived through a lot. 🙂
@Newdiscourses - How does this shape your understanding of what’s going on in Utah and Mormonism more broadly?
Not sure what you mean...? debates over church policies about women and others? I think answers to true inclusion and equality are already in LDS origins... for example how black men were ordained originally in the 1830s-40s, then lost that, then recovered it in 1978. We have early precedent for full equality we haven't seen. We have to search and discern what is true, find the healing truths from God latent in our theology and history and implement them much better.
Welcome home Maxine. Are there any UA-cam videos where you discuss motherhood? The word was never mentioned during your interview. It appears to be the great divide between feminists and “militant homemakers” like my wife, who view the creation and nurture of life to be an under rated female activity:)
That's a good idea, I should talk about that. I have always validated and defended mothers, motherhood, and women's agency, right, choices to be whatever they feel called to be-- whether mothers or career women, or both. Feminism doesn't invalidate motherhood or mothering, that's a big misconception -- feminism has aided women and the needs of mothers all along, to have support. People get the wrong idea that feminism is against mothers....since some women don't want to be stay-at-home moms so feminism supports their agency to be whatever they want to be. That is an individual choice, not a campaign against other women. Women who want to work outside the home or want to limit how many children they have are not against other women being full-time moms. They are only speaking for themselves, defending their own right to be who they want to be. I chose not to be a mom, yet I still mother all kinds of kids and adults and I defend mothers and motherhood to the end. Moms & kids need our support !
Has Maxine written an updated book on women in the church today related to serving as preistess?
I do not believe she has other than the one she spoke of. She should though!
@@Come.Back.Podcast a new updated release would increase her sales. I would buy it as I am having trouble with my wife feeling the church is Male ran and woman have no place in the church in her eyes. And it makes me sad and I am not sure how to respond to her in a loving charismatic way. Just some thoughts. And thank you for your time and energy you put into your show. I have been a video editor for 20 plus years and I know the work it takes to make a show happen.
@@schulze420 Thank you ! I do need to publish more books to help women and other members. i am working on that. And I will be re-releasing my 1992 W&A book soon, in new paperback, stay tuned. And I am working on other things.
I’m sorry, but this is a very skewed perspective on this issue. I don’t doubt her testimony or her current membership. So glad when anyone comes back. But I don’t think the original book was meant as innocently as she claims. She even said she was disheartened by the church for 10 years before she published the book. I found a 2019 quote where she says “We lost our Church membership, but we knew that was a risk and the price for publishing…”
So the whole I just didn’t think to discuss it with the leaders thing doesn’t seem super genuine
@snun1772 When we know people only a little, we have little basis for judging their sincerity. When we know them well, we have a great deal of basis for that. From everything I know of Maxine after having known her for decades, I can attest to the sincerity of her desires, then and now, to contribute positively to the church.
Thank you Don!
@@onandagus1 I’m not even saying I disagree with everything she says. And I have read a lot. Just re read this. www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/V52N01_hanks.pdf
A few thoughts….
1. Where’s the mention of Christ in this or any of that discussion?
2. History ≠ authority (even though it’s super interesting and important to learn)
3. Scholarly knowledge ≠ authority
Just a a she still disagrees with a lot of the “problematic” things in the church, but still goes and loves and serves. I can use my critical thinking to not agree with everything she says (problematic to me!) and still see her as an eternal sister!
I agree with you -- we can disagree about points of doctrine or policy and All still be members of the Body of Christ. And I agree -- I should talk more about Christ, so thank you for that point! I often fail to mention that I have felt very close to Jesus and God ever since I was a tiny child, at age 3, when I gave my first talk in Jr. Sunday School, about God and our relationship. I have felt guided by God and Christ all through my life and my path, except for some hard times in my 20s and 30s when I felt disillusioned and needed to work through that.
However, I can assure you that my intention in creating my 1992 book was 100% sincere and focused on providing healing information for women and for the Church. My book emerged from and was about spirituality as much as scholarship. I rely on both epistemologies in my life and work -- knowing via spirit and via intellect.
The book was a healing project for me, after a decade of personal struggle and disillusioning experiences. And it took great courage in the 1980s to reclaim our LDS heritage of the divine feminine and women's priesthood, when people feared to even talk about them -- so of course we knew there was a risk and price, because so few people had dared to do this, before 1992!
Yet, also I'm quite honest when I say -- it did not dawn on me, until afterward, that I could have discussed my book with Church leaders first. I didn't know that they'd be interested or willing to talk with me about it ! That came as a surprise, after the book came out, how they were affected, troubled by it -- but by then it was too late. That was my one big regret about the book -- that I hadn't realized how it would affect the leaders. I have said that in public many times. So that's the one thing I would have done differently -- I would have talked to them about it first. I had ignored them as my audience, and I hadn't viewed them as my brothers. So that changed later...
My journey of working through both the problems and solutions in our tradition is very honest, and courageous. Not everyone feels able to do that. Some people focus on the positives, and some people focus on the negatives. I believe we need to deal with both, since they constitute the whole picture, the reality, so that's what I strive to do. I think we need to see both -- the flaws, harms in our religion as well as its divine truths. If we only see the good and not the bad, or vice versa, we are not seeing the whole truth.
I think scholarship helps us to see our tradition better, see its limitations and mistakes, but I think spirituality is what enables us to deal with and heal those things
Please Maxine, will you republish your first book, Women and Authority? Paperback is fine. I hate Kindle copies.
I promise, it is coming soon !
I have someone close to me that struggles deeply with the patriarchal structure of the church. It's come to the point where she looks at everything through the Lense of patriarchy. For example Ryan Gosling winning best supporting role in Barbie shows the patriarchy is alive and well in society today.
She finds issues patriarchy, modesty, gender roles, garments, polygamy, and whole mess of other things.
Where does someone like that turn? I want to share this with her but at this point I think she needs to talk with a woman that can relate to her experience but still sees a lot of value in the church.
It feels like those who relate closest to her feelings are either out of the church or are barely in.
For example, she used to listen to a podcast of these woman who are in the church that talk about all the issues of being a woman in the church. Not that we should ignore the issues, but it just felt the women did very little in helping their listeners feel that the church was the right place to be. An over simplified summary of a podcast would be "Modesty is taught all wrong and that's because the church is ran by a bunch of men. We stay anyway because of Jesus." Just saying Jesus's atonement is real after just ranting for 45 minutes about problem's in the church isn't going to help someone want to stay.
Ideally, I want her to find someone who has a listening ear that's been where she is but finds tremendous value in the principles of the church.
Is she interested in talking to someone?
@@Come.Back.Podcast Yes she would be
I think this podcast would help her a lot. These voices are sincere in sharing the truly positive aspects of LDS tradition. Every religion has positive and negative aspects, but the negatives don't negate the positives. It's important to see both aspects for a whole picture. I also have other podcast interviews I've done, like Latter Day Struggles, which might help her.
What was the name of her book?
www.signaturebooks.com/books/p/women-and-authority
Maxine when you're talking about the gnostics are you talking about the nagamati Scrolls in the Dead Sea Scrolls?
Thanks, I'm referring to the early Christians who produced additional scriptures (in the Nag Hammadi and other texts) which testified of our personal connection to the divine and the mysteries that Jesus taught his disciples, and the kingdom of God within our own soul. The gospel of Thomas is a good place to start. I discovered gnostic Christianity when I first read Hugh Nibley's book on the JS Papyri: an Egyptian Endowment in 1979. Like Nibley, I see a great deal of early gnostic teachings in the LDS restoration.
I probably missed something so I will tread lightly. My understanding of excommunication is to help someone through the repentance process, protect others and to protect the Church's image (I'm sure there's more). I heard Maxine say if her book was published today she doesn't think it would be a problem. I never heard her say she did anything wrong (this is what I might have missed). I have a hard time believing her membership in the church was taken because she wrote a book about women's true roles in the church.
Her book is exactly why she was excommunicated. Michael Quinn was also excommunicated for an essay he contributed to the book.
I'm listening to Terryl Givens book, "Stretching the Heavens" the life of Eugene England. The church hoped to make an example of scholars who taught doctrine that wasn't officially sanctioned by the brethren. The presidency and CES seem to have been struggling with scholars who spoke out against official church teachings. I listen while driving so I don't recall all that was said about Maxine Hanks, I have to listen again and also buy the printed copy of the book. I recommend reading it. I'm a fan of Terryl Givens among other scholars, also of interest is Jarred Halverson speaking on proving contraries.
The church at the time of the September 6 , wasn't coping well with accessibility to historical documents, after this it seems they took steps to make information available. It has taken time
kenscott98 -- This is accurate and well said! thank you.
rickyde0255 --We were indeed exed for our writings in the book, that is the fact. I don't take back anything in the book, other than a couple of words or phrases I could have written better. However, my one regret was that I didn't see the Brethren as my audience, and my brothers: I ignored them, thinking the book was for women, the members, not leaders. Later wished I had talked to the Brethren first about it and lessened the shock for them. I have actually said this many times in public. But the info in the book was solid, accurate, and I stand by that. I would only edit a few words or phrases for better clarity.
What is her full name? I didn't catch it and don't see it in the description. Thank you.
Maxine Hanks
@@jonny9998 thanks
There are different brands of feminism.
This is so true. I was on campus at UCLA Northridge for a meeting of Mother's Against Sexual Abuse years ago and a feminist speaker was screaming and yelling on a stage out on the grounds. It was the first time I had ever seen a feminist movement in action. Women are so important in the Kingdom as they are in the home.
Yes, exactly, so many types over the past 200 years, so it worries me that people who don't know feminist history and theory think feminism is only the current and most extreme vocal version, which is a tiny minority of feminism.
I wish she would quit using "mormonism" 😒
Old habits take time to change :) Ive noticed that on a few episodes
@@Come.Back.PodcastI think a lot of members fall back on “Mormon” once in a while. “Mormonism” is different. Scholars aren’t even trying to drop it
I appreciate the reminder, I use it too much, lifelong habit (I'm old). I try to never use it for the Church or its members, which re LDS, but the label Mormon does work for the larger culture and Mormon studies and Mormon history.
poligamy is this menber of the leadership of the church if they dont come to the savior trough me ...they will lose their eternal companion for not unclean can enter ,,,,their wifes became my lineage troghout all eternaty and there is a whole bunch of woman in jesus name amen
I’m not sure I understand what you are trying to say.
Maxine, what does one expect to learn when one decides to study "gender studies"? What its the purpose of it? How do you define "feminism"? The feminism of "progressives" is very harmful and destructive. What was your problem with how the church treats women??
I never met ANY female church member who has had such issues.
It is cultural studies and social science, plus some history. You might want to look at university catalogues to see courses in women's / gender studies programs, which teach how discourse operates and how voices operate within discourses. I define feminism as femina (woman) + ism (philosophy of) -- so women's perspective. There are many types of feminism, not just one, but none are called "progressive." They include Liberal, Cultural, Equality, Difference, Social, Radical, Separatist, Eco-feminism, Post-modern, Psychoanalytical, Post-feminist, and others. I group them all in 2 main categories -- those that focus on equality of sexes/genders minimizing difference, and those that focus on difference in gender between men and women as a group with distinct needs. Both approaches are vital, real, valid and help us see gender more fully in society. There is no one true best feminism...each responds to a specific aspect of women's lives and their situations and challenges in society.
I became feminist at an early age simply because I wanted freedom to be whatever interested me and not be prevented from learning just b/c I was a girl. For example, I took both Home Econ. and woodshop in high school, since I valued both. I worked at both traditional male and female jobs, like secretary and truck driver. I wanted to be a whole person. Historically, women were treated as subordinate to men, but feminism since the Revolutionary period in the 1700s has been improving opportunities for women, moving society and culture forward decade after decade toward real partnership.