Worst Handgun Adopted by US Military in the 20th Century?
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
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The US military has adopted several different autoloading pistols in the 20th century, some more prominent than others. In this video I choose what I think was the worst handgun purchase the US military made in the 20th century and explain why. This does not include special/one-off firearms procured by individual USSOCOM members or units, or other special operations groups.
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#hurtfeelings #handgun #military
Nope. The very worst handgun adopted was the Colt/Smith & Wesson M13 revolver issued to air crews. The lightweight frame and cylinder were so weak that they had to develop special, underpowered .38 ammunition to help prevent catastrophic failure. Forgotten Weapons has a good video on this.
To be fair, it was an emergency sort of revolver issued to pilots so maybe we can give that exception?
Do we redesign or strengthen the firearm? Nah just weapon the bullet, lol that's one way to do things wrong.
@@justiron2999
Well, at least they were ambitious, a bit misled but still.
I was going to add the same comment so thank you for getting to it first brother.
@@JohnSmith-fd5un I wouldn't. Not much reason to make it unreliable.
The Mark 23 is the greatest handgun the U.S. Military FORGOT they had.
I almost bought one .
Cause NATO don't do 45 cal.
They chose to forget.
I was in the Navy from 1981 to 1985. I heard out of Coranado Island (Yeah those guys who broke the M-9 slides ) that no military handgun without a safety would get adopted for general use.
Yes SIG sells the P 320 without a safety mostly, but the military one has the optional (For Civilians, not the military.) manual safety as issued.
So no, the P-226 never had a chance. What the SEALS used was not going to be given to everyone for general use.
Overheard in Boston: "Suppress my KAC."
I currently have 2 1911s. One is stainless and the other black. Over the years I've owned 5. I've never had any problems with them. My favorite gun of all was a WWI US Army parkerized version. I currently have 2 Beretta M92s, again one black and one stainless. I missed a chance to get a 3rd in FDE. I have all sorts of problems with both Berettas. I can't empty a full magazine with either one without at least one stovepipe or other malfunction. I'm sure I have put enough rounds through them to smooth out any rough action. I like the aesthetics of the Berettas and would make one of them my go to carry gun if they were dependable. Instead I use my S&W MP 9. I'm happy with it, although I might someday get a Glock 19 if I find one in a color that appeals to me. Right now, shelves are almost empty.
Everyone has an opinion. My opinion is that I love the 1911, .45! -Gunny T sends
You make a point, plus the fact that HK had developed the USP 45, what became the MK24, during the MK23 testing phase. HK was encouraging Navy PEO for Expeditionary Warfare to hold on the MK23 and look at the USP 45C. The Navy could have switched gears but no. They forged ahead, ultimately replacing the MK23 with the MK24 anyway, and finally the SIG226. Is that irony or par for the course.
What? Lowest bidder got a US government contract? No, can't be. Say it isn't so....
because if the reason that the 1911 pistols were replaced because they have few rounds in the magazine, then they should return it now as the standard issue for the U.S. military because at present or even 10years ago there are already high capacity (14+1) 1911 pistols. What i know was the US military adapted the 9mm and the Beretta because in Europe where they have their military uses the 9mm pistols so they have much available ammo for their Beretta than if they have their .45 caliber pistols.
I would have gone with the Colt 1902. It’s awkward, uncomfortable, the mag release is on the back of the magazine release and is interfered with by a lanyard, and the sights are razor thin. That being said it is quite accurate.
I would submit that the worst commonly issued US handgun would be a series of double action Colt revolvers chambered in .38 Long Colt which proved lacking in stopping power during our police action in the Phillipines at the beginning of the 20th century. After action reports of failures in the field gave impetus to our military issuing a request for a new service pistol in .45 caliber resulting eventually in Brownings .45acp 1911.
For some reason I thought the special forces would have thought the mk23 was the coolest thing ever like I do.
On any semi automatic the magazine is 1 third of the gun.
If I remember correctly one of the requirements was that it needed to work in the extreme cold of Alaska because the military was preparing for fighting Russians in sub-zero environments. So the size and heft of that pistol was a benefit but only for that scenario.
So...you don't like crew served handguns? The gun was designed for high speed room clearing. Most of the Popeye armed assaulters were just fine with the weight. The mass minimizes muzzle flip making for fast repeat shots.
Mk.23 is always gonna be one of my favorite guns for the same reason I like the XM29. Super cool idea, but completely divorced from reality
You said beautiful and elegant when talking about the M9 paperweight, I can't take anything else you say too seriously now.
The American military should have kept the 1911, never mess with perfection. 100 years from now the 1911 will still be used and talked about.
Nothing like over 100 year old technology at today's prices.
The Mk23, a weapon to surpass Metal Gear.
I think you should have chose the Beretta after all the problems they had with it
M13 Aircrewman revolver. An aluminum alloy weapon that was so dangerous to the user that they were all destroyed only a few years after purchase.
ua-cam.com/video/MGR_29YbLQs/v-deo.html
The examples of the M13 Aircrewman, either from Colt or S&W, are now collectors items.
A case of knowing what you want, but getting the details rather wrong.
They were only dangerous if you shot them
I said the same thing. I'm surprised that someone else brought up the M13.
The gun met the requirements of the military. Sounds like the problem is with the military and the people in charge than the gun.
Military-Industrial Complex
Same thing can be said of other bad gun designs adopted by the US. For example, the 1919 Browning machine gun was too heavy, suffered from random "cook-off" firing, used weather-sensitive cloth belts, and had no quick change barrel. Compare it to the superior MG34 and MG42 used by Germany and you'll appreciate the backwardness of US military weapons procurement. It wasn't John Browning's fault for designing a dog that met crappy requirements.
@@widehotep9257 You really think machinegun which needs barrel replacement after 200 shots is superior? :-) Germans lost war for some reason.
The gun was created for the specials forces, it met the requirements of the military ( weight, accuracy, reliable, suppressor ready , the gun went to 30000 rounds of +p with no malfunctions)
So it’s the worst gun because hk over delivered ???? I quite don’t understand why it’s the worst gun. ( the grease gun or tommy gun are the worst guns in the military now hand guns the military is not gonna adopt something bad )
as a matter of fact at the beginning the beretta was the worst gun, unreliable, low quality parts , complicated when racking the slide for novices !!!! After a couple of years the fixed the problems so that makes it the worst gun and the worst gun according to this guy is the gun that the military wanted and hk didn’t need to fix nothing??? That doesn’t make any sense !!
@@Pidalin not like they were sandwiched between the most powerful militaries on the planet and had captured almost the entirety of Europe with a politician who had no place leading a military at the helm who repeatedly sabotaged their efforts accidentally because he didn't understand what they actually needed on the battlefield and didn't listen to the people who did.
When I was in the Navy ('77-'86), when issued the .45 for watch or security, we were only allowed to keep 5 rounds in the mag and NO mag in the pistol. The 2 issued mags (with 5 rounds each) were in a mag holster....snapped closed...same as the sidearm...holster snapped closed. We often joked that if needed we could just throw the .45 faster than all of the wasted time to get the .45 into action.....only one thing wrong with the throwing idea....the .45 was tied to you with a lanyard.
Remember the 2 MPs playing John Wayne on duty at check point ? See who can draw faster for cigarettes? Then one MPs won when he blew away his battle buddy.
That lanyard allows a serviceman to rapidly throw his 1911 at the enemy multiple times. 😉
@@stephenrandolph6322 Wait, what?
In 1978, I was tasked with designing a "qualification course" for sailors to safely carry and shoot the .45 by CINCLANTFLT because a sailor on watch had fired his pistol and narrowly missed hitting anyone. Every type of course I came up with failed, because sailors didn't take it very seriously or were afraid of the pistol and they shot the ground, the sky - anything but the target. In frustration, I tried the same course of instruction with the navy wives living on Dam Neck base and they were extremely successful and easily qualified "Expert". Admiral Kidd finally gave up and removed pistols for the quarterdeck watches.
This is what happens when you get a Democrat Congress making decisions about how the military does its job.
I was honestly expecting the Colt "Aircrew" revolver, with it's aluminum cylinder and pud-loaded .38 round.
Right!? ...and all to save 1 pound in an 183,000 pound bomber, with 312,175 lbs of fuel, and 70,000lbs of bombs...an all up weight of 488,000 pounds(!), but a real K-frame, or God forbid a 1911...oh no, that's too much!
@@jacobmccandles1767 I cannot wrap my head around that! It's like someone designed and made that thing because they could and definitely not because they should. As you say, what would an airman prefer? Almost anything in a decent caliber other than that!
Or the .22 they issued to U2 pilots.
One of many worse guns than the mk23.
EXACTLY! We used this .38 for my first range qualification in the Army. Was not accurate and only 6 rounds of .38! No thanks! I was a young, stupid W01 right out of flight school and partnered up with a experienced CW4 Vietnam vet that day at the range. He hated it and here is why. This is what he told me. He was shot down in Vietnam flying his UH-1 Huey and everyone ended up unconscious after the crash except him. There was a Vietnamese soldier approaching and my buddy emptied his .38 into the approaching soldier who kept coming at him. He was out of bullets now. The door gunner came too around this time and hit the soldier with multiple rounds from his door mounted M60 and ended it right there. 7.62x51 for the win! I said "What would you like to have for your handgun?" "Something with as many bullets as I can get", was his reply. He also told me he used to carry a Thompson submachine gun on board with him after that incident. I learned ALOT from guys like my friend. Vietnam vets get all my respect. This .38 revolver does not....at least for a soldier in combat.
1980’s: SIG undercut by Beretta.
30 years later..... SIG undercuts Glock.
"Fool me once..."
Lol
The same model too LOL
Lol sig was like that scene in war dogs 😂 they under bid the competition by over $100 million
Then they slid in the contract they are the sole provider of parts extra barrels and mags at a higher rate than glock so in the long run the military budgets and tax payers get screwed. Now that per unit undercut looks like peanuts to the fortune in mags & parts.
As the late great Col. Jeff Cooper once told us in a class at Gunsite: "The sole purpose of a combat handgun is to fight your way to a rifle or shotgun."
Yup, that's Col. Cooper. And he was serious when he said it. Totally.
And let's not forget Jeff Cooper gave us the Beast known as 10mm, one hell of a great caliber.
Hard to swim with a rifle.
@@bdr32965 Well, better than 45 ACP (!)
(braces for shitstorm).... :)
@@markh.6687 Oh ya 10mm hits a hell of a lot harder than .45 AARP.
You nailed the reason the HK wasn't perfect when you said "The US Army didn't actually know what they were asking for." Had the SOCOM requirements actually had a solid idea of what they wanted, HK would have delivered a firearm that would have fit the requirements with German precision. Too many things kept changing through the development to come up with a fully conceived design.
That's called the Pentagon .
@@stephenrandolph6322 It wasn't the Pentagon in this case, it was feuding between Army SF and Navy SEALS who couldn't agree on anything about the design and saw any compromise as the other branch "winning". Hence why it has a manual safety AND a separate decocker, and why that decocker is such a pain to use.
I think it's more likely the US army weren't asked what they needed. They simply got what the bean counters thought was a good idea even though they were given a shopping list of features to look for. Military procurement will never improve..
Requirements creep has been the bane of most gov’t projects.
SOCOM (although a misnomer) has their own acquisition & procurement mechanism. The M9 went through the standard material fielding process. Going to the 9mm was part of the "let's be like NATO countries" idea. I retired just as they were fielding the M9. Just comparing the M1911 and the M9 side by side, one is a weapon, the other is just a pistol.
I love this gun. Ever since MGS came out when I was a kid I had to have it. My Mk23 is still my favorite handgun that I own.
Same, it looked really cool and badass. However? After joining the military, the MK23 lost it’s luster for me.
Fuck ya dude
I wanted one but then went with a FNX45 Tactical
Pfft peasants.
*crack* *sip* "Naked Snakes 1911 from MGS3, now that's a real military handgun"
@@shaynewalker3248 Can't forget the SA Operator 1911 that Old Snake had in MGS4, the weapon choice was probably a reference to Big Boss
The Mark 23 is my favorite handgun. Period. I have a Maritime finish model, with a KAC suppressor and an Insight LAM1450. It's among my most shot firearms. Tear mine apart and you'll see carbon caked on everywhere. It's surprisingly easy to shoot, even as a guy with smaller hands.
That being said, I usually describe it as a really good execution of a terrible idea. HK did everything the US Government asked of them, and then some. Thing is, no one ever stopped to ask if what the government was asking for was a good idea.
Yeah, thats a really good point.
The Mark 23 is my favorite handgun as well. I use mine as my EDC but I'm also 6'3.
“...Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should.”
--Ian Malcolm, Jurassic Park
Genuinely curious. What makes it your favorite handgun?
@@thalesofmiletus6162 If you're expecting an objective explanation of why it's my favorite, you're probably not going to get it from me. I just like the gun, because it shoots well for me. I guess I can try to explain it, both by talking about the gun itself, and about the guns it's often compared to (most of which I own).
I actually like the controls on the Mark 23. I do own a lot of HKs, so I prefer the paddle magazine release, and I like the Mark 23's implementation the most, of all of HK's paddle magazine releases. The USP release is too small, the new VP9/P30 release could use more texture, the HK45C release is similar to the Mark 23 (good), and the P7M8 release is pretty good too. I like HK's slide releases, and the Mark 23 is no exception - nice, big, easy to hit. The decocker is a bit slippery and low profile, but to me, decocking is an administrative procedure, not a tactical one, so I'd rather a decocker be out of the way than easy to hit. The safety I could do without (I'm not the kind of guy that runs the gun cocked and locked), but it mostly stays out of the way.
The trigger is pretty decent too. Not a 1911, but pretty decent. The SA break is reasonably crisp, in the 5-5.5lb region. The reset is actually fantastically short, tactile, and audible, I'd go as far as to say the best reset of all the HKs I've shot. The DA is smooth, but somewhat heavy (maybe the 12lb range). I tend to like checkering on my handgun grips, and the Mark 23 definitely has that. The sight radius is pretty long.
What about compared to some of the guns the Mark 23 is usually compared to? I have a USP Tactical, which is said to have been procured off the shelf and used instead of the Mk23 (albeit, in .45 instead of the 9mm that I have). The USP Tactical has a better SA break, but is worse in almost all of the other trigger aspects (more lackadaisical reset, grittier DA pull). I prefer the USP's trigger convertibility (I converted mine to V3 to remove the safety), but the lever is pretty big and kinda gets in the way of getting a higher grip. The sight radius is shorter, being a smaller gun, and at least on the 9mm, the sights don't clear suppressors as well.
The HK45CT (Mk24) replaced the Mk23. I don't have one, but I do have a USP45 Compact, which the HK45CT is an evolution of (went something like USP45C > USP45CT > HK45CT). Most of the comments of the USP Tactical apply, but you also lose even more sight radius, magazine capacity (8-10 vs 12) and overall shootability. The USP45C feels a lot snappier than the Mk23 and I just don't shoot it anywhere near as well.
The FNX45 Tactical is another comparison. It beats the Mk23 easily, on paper. Higher capacity, optics compatibility, better ambidexterity, actual Picatinny rail. I've got one, and I do like it. But it's the small details that I don't like. Mags don't drop free as well as most other guns. The safety lever works like a V1 USP, which I don't prefer. It's liable to decocking if you sweep it off of safe with force, and honestly, it's a bit mushy going to each position. The grip texture is a bit too aggressive. The gun overally feels more loose than a Mk23. The trigger SA break is lighter, but mushier, and the reset is not as good. The DA pull I'd say is comparable. Slide release is laughably small, comparable to a Glock.
The Mark 23 just shoots really well, especially suppressed. I've shot it out to 100 yards with ease, and I'd love to stretch it out even further when I have the chance. The KAC suppressor, despite weighing nearly a pound, doesn't really throw off the balance of the gun (now, gun + suppressor + LAM does get heavy). It's not the most quiet suppressor, but it's still shockingly competitive for something from the 90s (I have the Rugged Obsidian 45, and it is quieter, but also longer, than the KAC). The gun does have a lot of muzzle flip (being long and having a high bore axis), but it gets back on target pretty fast and is a soft, smooth shooting gun.
I am not saying it's the most practical gun. If I had to choose one handgun to cover my every day needs, the Mark 23 would not be it (just too big to conceal for me). But if you asked me to pick one gun for the range, or one gun to trust my life to (without the need to conceal), the Mark 23 would be it.
That was a lot of text to say "I like the gun just because." But yeah. I like the gun just because.
Saw you holding the 1911 and my heart stopped. Don’t scare me like that ever again lol.
Same.😂😂😂
Hi everybody Happy New Year!
I feel like a lot of us felt this way. Lol
Haha same
M9 >>> 1911
"This was the worst handgun adopted by the US Military."
Solid Snake would like to have a word with you.
who?
You’re pretty good
I don't know, he tried pawning it off to Meryl for the Desert Eagle 😂
B M but we’re talking about the 20th century so the p320 is not eligible. Also I wouldn’t say so, there was a fix to that problem so it’s not a bad gun as it stands.
Am... He used MR 23 Socom.
It’s basically the Thompson SMG of handguns because of the hefty weight and the high price.
Except soldiers actually liked The Annihilator
@@snowlothar45 Indeed, clearly I didn't serve in WW2 but the "Tommy gun" was an incredibly awesome weapon for its time.
we rag on the thompson for its excessive cost and weight. But looking back, All double stack mag SMGs built to standards worth shit were expensive and heavy(Suomi, Beretta 1938, PPD40, etc), until the PPsH41, M2(intrim SMG that was only technically adopted) and PPS43.
@Travers Kilroy Cooper Alvirez ehh the Thompson was definitely obsolescent in WW2, it doesn't bring anything new to the table and it is heavy and expensive. But it worked and worked well.
Now, if you were talking about the .30 carbine thompson...
@@CKshouta I think that it's fair to say that soldiers will generally put up with heavy, some lack of ergonomics, something out of date provided it is reliable and does the job to whoever is on the receiving end. The Thompson is almost certainly all of those things. When a weapon works and you have every confidence that it will work when you need it to, a soldier will like that weapon.
US government asks HK to make a gun.
HK makes gun the way the US asked for.
"Why wou HK make this?"
I'd like a cheeseburger with no cheese, please. xD
Same with the german government/Bundeswehr.
@@nickcorsello8445 you asked for a hamburger
Like the FBI picking the trendy powerful 10mm caliber and then watering it down to the weakest 10mm load in existence, and then turning around and running it through a heavy duty S&W gun purpose-built for hot loads.
@@nickcorsello8445 my first job was in that field of hospitality, and those people DO exist.
"For it to fire, you must have a round chambered" 🤔 ..... Hold up, what a min. Lol
To contrast with all of the open-bolt handguns out there. 😉
Or any of the guns that will fire without a round chambered. Is that a ghost gun?
@@michaelreed1380 "A magazine with 100 clips in it!"
You obviously haven't experienced ghost bullets
It's an old design. Newer handguns don't even need any ammo in the magazine.
He is missing lots of the colt semi-auto pistols issued between 1900 and 1911, that used .32 or .38 caliber.
He is like the MSM He only tells what he wants
@@steemerxaxon1643 I am coming at it from a viewer of Forgotten Weapons or c&arsonal. Filter my possibly unreasonable expectations through that.
@@edwardwood6532 you're correct tho they deserve an "honerable" mention.
I don't think many of those were formally adopted by the US Military. Most of those were very good guns although lacking in stopping power. The M1909 revolver was sort of a step in the wrong direction too but at least had a lot of power.
@@redtra236 Without rereading the entire thing, I believe they were used by officers. Widespread or official adoption, whatever that specifically means, may not be the case for those early pistols.
I still want a 10mm Mk. 23. Chambering such a big pistol in that round would actually make sense. Also, just because.
Definitely. Or even a MK 24 in 10mm
Mk23 45 socom is my dream pistol because of Rainbow Six
I just want a 10mm :(
Sadly HK doesnt design guns for the civilian market. I highly doubt any contract will ask for a 10mm pistol ever.
@@jacobs1230 true. Because we suck and H&K hates us.
Mac starting controversy again in the comments 😂
U.S. would've loved the Hi-Power.
Yep!
As an owner of one, I'd have to agree. Once you remove the magazine safety.
Should’ve adopted the Hi-Point C9 :).
@@Miller09095 Mag safeties are the devil. The devil!
The US military sort of did that. They replaced an effective .45 caliber handgun with a little .36 caliber (9mm) popgun.
Remember Murphy's law of combat, "Never forget that you're weapon was made by the lowest bidder."
Unless you’re Swiss
your*
@@keithstone8693 how to tell someone failed their middle school English class
Except the Mark 23. It is the toughest pistol out there made from the best materials with legendary Kraut Space Magic.
@@keithstone8693 grammar Nazi
“Every American should own one of these (1911)!”
Understood. Will comply. I’ll just forward this video to my spouse from the gun store parking lot.
Haha me too man
Meh, gimme a Glock over a boomer blaster any day. 17 shots of 9mm in a lighter package with better build quality, yes please.
@@slamshift6927 Tim never said every American should *carry* a 1911, just own one.
@@Retr0Whiskey The fuck is the point of owning it if you don't put it to practical use
@@slamshift6927 you ever heard of a collectors item?
Possibly the best gun to fill a role that didn't exist.
You're exactly correct. The m9 filled the role. The 1911 is a good Jesus moses Browning gun. But in combat, you want more rounds in a magazine.
Rule 1 ask the end user if they need it . This weapon is the result of a defence spending increase leading to vanity projects getting the nod.
Bull shit, the 9
1911 is one of the best combat handguns to exist to this day.
Happy Holidays! Free Penny Lane Ippolito in DHS in Fort Collins Co! They moved her to Elizabeth Burchs house in Arizona when her arm needed medical attention! Plz Help!ua-cam.com/video/bvBu2Cd0bj0/v-deo.html
*Too. I think you meant. And "hollow points" aren't widely available in Geneva Convention abiding militaries. Although not unheard of. Key point. It's just my personal opinion. Based on experience and research.
Worst handgun is not having a handgun.
"For it to fire it must have a round chambered"
Wow, who would've thought
I’d love to buy a firearm that doesn’t need ammunition to shoot...
@@The_SmorgMan a Energy using gun?
*laughs in open bolt*
He's explaining to people who are new to guns
you mean..... wow. my pistol is realy outdated, and its a h&k usp!! it cant fire unless there is a round in the chamber.... is that a problem??
"The gun is just too big." I'm sure there is some 2 meter tall(6' 7") veteran somewhere watching this and laughing.
I'm not that quite that tall but the Mark23 fits my hands rather well as I tend to dwarf most pistols
Maybe not 6'7" but Tim is a big guy and he's a veteran.
6'4" here, pistol is a good fit in my gorilla hands
Not a vet but 6'8. Glock 19's are too small lmao
I'm 5'3" and have tiny hands. No pistols fit me well. I don't have a Mk23, but other double stack 45s like the FNX and Glock don't fit me worse than anything else, so the size of a double stack 45 ends up not mattering for me either.
Let's not kid ourselves...offensive handgun just means fun toy for all us gun lovers.
Fun fact: the Brazilian military didn’t retire their 1911’s: the contracted a manufacturer to produce a kit comprising a slide, magazine, and barrel combination to retrofit their pistols to use 9mm.
Yep, the manufacturer is the Imbel.
The first handgun I ever fired on the range was a Colt Commander 9mm with a 9-round mag. It was a great arm, but I still preferred the Hi-Power that I later purchased.
What was the point?
Who cares?
@@cs-rj8ru the point is that no point needs to be made
When I was an MP in the Army during the Vietnam era, I carried a Model 1911 every day on duty. The powers that be limited us to carrying magazines holding only 5 rounds, probably in the mistaken belief that it would weaken the magazine follower spring. Perhaps that was true for some suppliers of magazines. I think the weakened spring theory has been pretty much been debunked. But did the brass issue us additional magazines to compensate? No they did not. Ironically, they also limited us to 5 rounds of buckshot for the 12 ga. pump shotguns we carried for payroll runs and special guard duty situations. Military Intelligence?? I think not!
I can tell you why the five round thing. It was five rounds out of a 50 round box. Easy math! That's it! That stupid! They did the same thing issuing ammo for the M3 grease guns. Five rounds for a submachine gun. Dumb.
I'm Flagg; military counter-intelligence! Nobody said the government had to make any sense. Except when we tell them to.
"They" have always worried soldiers would use too many bullets.
And usually these decisions are made by Pogues sitting safe back at HQ!
We had problems with the mags on the M9 as well. I could not get that thing to feed no matter how clean it was and it was traced to the mags. They were crap. I love the M9 but hated the mags they used when they were first introduced. Mac nailed it in the video.
I’m diggin the Boba Fett stocking cap.
This is the way
@@tdnavy1066 Weapons are part of my religion.
@@Militaryarmschannel now this is the way
@@tdnavy1066 this is the way
@@tdnavy1066 this is the way
Small Arms Solutions had mentioned that the military wasn't buying OEM parts which lead to problems with the M9...
That and Winchester screwed up a bunch of their cases, causing pressure to skyrocket. They were basically shooting a steady diet of proofing loads through them. Cracked frames on Sigs as well.
Yup that combined with the basically proof load 9mm they were feeding them caused things to muck up pretty badly.
Yeah. Small Arms Solutions and Gun Jesus talked about those. Lol..So..in a nut shell....
Small Arms in a nut shell: The government cheap out on parts and didn't care to maintenance the guns.
Gun Jesus in a nut shell: The government switched the powder on the last minute without telling Beretta as the testing phase continued.
Anyway..does all of these sounds familiar?..Hmmm..M16? Does that ring a bell?
@@SCH292 Yep, at least this time it was a sidearm and not the main infantry rifle the government mucked with.
@@Thorn19774 I knew there was something else, I forgot about the ammo!! :0)
I shot expert with the beretta in bootcamp. Thats all I just wanted to brag
You know what stranger on the internet? I’m proud of you!
i like the honesty, im proud of you too!
M9 is an awesome pistol only reason people hate it is because they get one that had a million rounds through it and was abused by a dozen other Soldiers or whoever. People don't realize how bad our military is at weapon maintenance
back in 92' we didn't qualify with a handgun in boot, at least in the Army. Would have been nice
The one time I actually did a pistol qual was with the M9 way back when.
I adored my M9. I think that, in the service, in the early 2000's there was a "cool" factor to 1911's. Because all the secret squirrel types were using 1911's and Medal of Honor prominently featured them.
I have had three 92's so far. I had a 92SB (Italian), a 92F (U.S.) and now I have a 92A3 (Italian). If you like the M9, check out the M9A3. They freaking nailed it! Thry brought an iconic platform into the current era. I run suppressed pistols and I have NEVER seen a barrel where you did not even have to remove the THREAD PROTECTOR to field strip. Everything about that gun is just dead on.
@@Ten_Mil_Will Agreed on the M9A3. I've had a 92F since the early 90's, but got bored with it since the grip was a hair big, the trigger was a hair heavy and it didn't quite shoot point of aim, so it mostly sits. I got interested in the M9A3 after catching a few reviews, including MAC's, so picked on up and think it's amazing. It fixed everything that was just a little off for me on the 92F.
@@stuartgorka989 Are you using the Hogue wrap arounds or the flat handle scales (for the "Vertec" profile)? I have the wrap around on mine but with it more closely replicated the original 92 feel. To me it seems like it is just a little fatter. I have been told to try the plastic wrap around grips but they're 80 bux. BTW what color you get? I got the Black and Grey and love it.
@@Ten_Mil_Will I'm using the flat handles...I originally didn't like the look of the vertec since I'm more of a purist, but it grew on me. I love the feel of it in my hands with that (I have medium sized hands). I got the FDE one. I think it's funny that the box says "SCAR FDE", I guess since it's also 73 shades of tan like a scar.
@@stuartgorka989 That is kinda funny, "SCAR FDE". I couldn't warm up to the flat panels. The pistol just felt a little nose heavy, to me, without the "hump" (and that was WITHOUT the suppressor). If you're not into them yet, check out a CZ P01. If you like Berettas, you will probably love CZ's (their metal framed hammer fired models).
🔥 The H&K Mark 23 was built for Hell on Earth ‼️
Sounds like a defense spending problem not an H&K problem. Thoughts?
Exactly: this gun was robustly tested to destruction, it does exactly what the military wanted it’s just what they wanted was stupid...
I have a beretta m9a3 so when he brought out the m9 my heart stopped for a second. But thankfully it was not the worst. I love my beretta very accurate and reliable. Plus the slides breaking up from the pistol was not Beretta's fault the government was using a new type of gun powder that went against what beretta said. Beretta actually sued the government and won after the new ammo was used in different pistols and they all broke!
M9 was the best modern handgun back in the day, but that doesn’t means it can beat other newer generation pistol. M9a3 can be the exceptional in accuracy test but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s not modular enough. Like m17, you can make it compact, you can make it longer barrels, you can replace it right on the field if things broke...you can add extra attachments. Don’t get me wrong, m9a3 is the best full size pistol but in next generation standard, it fall short in multiple check marks.
@@NamelessPassenger that's fair
@@NamelessPassenger I love beretta and I’m not a fan of sig. Your point here though is honestly very agreeable.
@@willa.568 you shouldn’t be fan of Sig...man, i only show an example of check marks army were asking for. That m17 is straight up losing to most today pistols...dunno did they fix the strikers that will fire in impact (drop). Still now, I scratched my head every time people mention m17 join in army. Wonder how many soldiers may got killed before even enter the battle if that sh1t going on. And as standard user, i suggest you should stick to high quality than go undercut like army did. And i gonna tell you, that full metal pistol will last through your whole life, unlike “polymer”...after all, plastic is plastic, it will break if you treat it brutally. That is why myself also not a fan of glock. But i have to agree one thing, that m17 modular trigger vs barrels are the only good things in that whole gun, hope beretta learn something from it. We all know, army standard is only “slightly better than trash”. So i doubt every choice they made.
And for some reason beretta outstanding and proof they are special even in that trash. My friend told me “that is a diamond in a trash bin”. M9 in army also been cut more corners than you ever imagined, the material, the quality control, etc...look at the m9 my friend use during services vs the m92x performance he own now, it’s like night and day. And yet, m9 still reliable.
@@NamelessPassenger About the only thing the new SIG can do is go from full size to compact in the field. The Beretta comes apart simply with no tools just like most Browning style guns. Later M9s have rails for attaching stuff. Attaching optics is a bit of a problem on the M9 series but that wasn't part of the requirements for the XM17 trials and no M17 or M18 handguns come as standard issue with a red dot. Back in 2012/2013, nobody was making a slide mounted red dot.
and to be fair, the US Army didn't even evaluate the M9A3 which did meet requirements, instead electing to proceed with their choice to hold trials.
Truth be told, it kind of looks like the Army had its heart set on the Sig and that would be the choice regardless. Considering the high quality of the competitors, and this is just my guess, it looks like Sig had this one in the bag on both price and predetermination. So much that Ruger didn't even bother entering, CZ entered one and didn't bother with another for the next round and Glock wound up filing a protest.
The MK 23 is a great pistol that is extremely reliable but it’s also designed to use as a bat if you get involved in a punch up!
😂😂😂😂😂
The M1911 is the handgun that refuses to completely retire.
I own 2 lol
Long Live the 1911!
@@RageUnchained same here.
Ditto !! Still my favorite HG!!
1 hit from a 45 and you are down compared to 2 or 3 hits from a 9MM.
So this is essentially the handgun version of the ACU?
At least the Mk 23 works....
By ACU you mean UCP right?
@@rogermcbadlad2812 yes, I mean that. Whoever thought making a camo that blends in with nothing but grandmas couch is an idiot.
@@burnyburnoutze2nd lol, I agree. I heard it works okay on a rock quarry though. It looks sweet when people dye it darker shades of green or brown though.
Oof.
@@burnyburnoutze2nd The not-entirely-wrong concept was that future warfare would likely occur primarily in urbanized areas, which UCP does actually work reasonably well in, and that a camo that was optimized for urban and "ok" in every other terrain was the best choice.
The US should have adopted the Browning Hi Power. John Browning himself called it a replacement to the M1911.
9mm vs 45acp
@@reallyhappenings5597 Correct 9mm is flat out better
No he actually didn’t, also .45acp is objectively ballistically superior.
@@Galahad_Du_Lac Ballistically superior? I mean, they both penetrate about the same distance, have leave similar wounds, and 9mm has higher pressures and muzzle velocity. I'd say they're more comparable, as opposed to one being objectively superior. Unless you have some big proof to backup your big claim?
7 rounds of 45ACP vs 13 rounds of 9mm. John Browning did have a valid point.
When I was 19 I watched Tears of the Sun I wanted one of those so bad, then I found out the price and I was making $7 an hour.
Good movie
@@tdnavy1066 except when the one character said something like " I'm staying. These are my people too". Dumb line.
@@TRUTHISABSOLUTE777 lol can't have it all
Those were in fact in real life canadian special forces not american SF so they would have been using sig sauer pistols
Whenever I hear built to military grade I think cheapest and lowest priced.
Yes cause we know Uncle Sam is not trying to waste our taxpayer dollars ha ha ha
Yea definitely, beretta m4 (over 2k) , beretta mrad (over 7k), all beretta 50cal versions (some over 10k) . All cheap military grade staff...
The opposite is true when you look at round count without stoppage, sand/dust, and arctic testing requirements, and US materials requirements.
US Mil-Std/NATO requirements are a very high bar to reach for that most commercial market firearms manufacturers could never reach and keep their current business models/pricing schemes.
Government waste is much worse than you think.
Werner von Braun, architect of the Apollo Program: "Six million parts, all built by the lowest bidder".
The 1911 is by far and away one of the most beautiful handgun designs ever. It may have started of as a .45 ACP, but you can get it in various calibers which proves how damn great the design really is. I've got a Rock Island 1911 chambered in my favorite caliber which is 10mm.
I’ve got one in the Patriot brown version. Love it.
"You're not a SEAL until you've tasted Italian steel" is a quote attributed to SEALs testing the new M9s and having the slides break and hit them in the mouth.
The story is quite different. SEALs adopted the 92SB before the Army adopted the M9, and had two cases of slide breakages. One was trying loads he prepared for his SMG, the other had fired over 30.000 rounds with that gun.
Beretta obviously replied that they should have used standards NATO spec ammos and replace parts according to the schedule (in the early '80, 30.000 was an incredibly hig count of rounds for any handgun. IE The XM9 program only requested a service life of 5000 rounds) but, at that point, the 92 fell out of the SEALs favour and they adopted the SIG P226.
Ironically in the '80s the P226 was known for frame breakages (they had one even during the XM9 trials) and lately the SEALs experimented several, with operators suffering hand injuries.
@@neutronalchemist3241 Yeah, I've heard all that, too. But I'm curious about the very last thing you said. Are you saying they were re-evaluating the MK 25 _recently_ and experienced breakages?
@@f3uibeghardt522 They had breakages in the '80s, when SIG used welded frames.
@@neutronalchemist3241 Oh, okay. I knew about that, but it sounded like you were talking about a far more recent evaluation.
@@jlinms8721 People talk often about the weaknesses of the original P226 with its stamped slide and pinned-in breech block.
When you are going to talk about the worst handgun adopted by the US military, and start off by whipping out a 1911....ya about knocked my blood pressure off the chart.
Boomer moment
@@beepbooboobopbooboobeep it really was good for its time though, not a boomer thing to appreciate it for what it is
@@michaelscotch3835 M9 fanboy over here. I still love the M1911 and I start drooling whenever I see a M45A1 MEUSOC Pistol!
In terms of capacity, weight, and complexity of operation, I'm afraid the 1911 is the worst anymore. Don't get me wrong, it's a decent platform and it was one of the best of its time, but it's obsolete compared to what's available today. Of all the handguns he reviewed in this video, the 1911 is the last one I'd choose to carry into battle.
I agree. The M9 is super easy to maintain, it’s accurate, and the only malfunctions I experienced were locking block cracks in guns that had thousands upon thousands upon thousands of rounds fired through them. I like it. I carried one in my three trips to Iraq and my one trip to Afghanistan. No issues with it.
I'm English and even I want to own a 1911
Imagine getting our pale hands on some of the .455 Webley models...
I feel bad for y'all over there in Europe
What sucks is if you know the right people you can get an illegal weapon for a couple of hundred pounds but we aren't allowed to own centerfire autoloaders or handguns.
@@philmcglen6194 well that really fucks the "saftey" the government has given you
Spec Ops guys can throw their entire Mk23 stock to me if they don't want it anymore 🤣
“Boss I’m tryna sneak around but some old guy keeps talking shit about my hk mark 23 socom that I paid $2000 for and my frustration is alerting the guards”
2000.00??? Back in the 90s that pistol was just over 1000.00
@@jasondevereaux3369 not with the lam
@@sinisterwombat3128 ya...there was no "lame" back then. Is that a 700.00 part???
@@sinisterwombat3128 mark 23 socom...fat oversized usp 45 with a threaded barrel, this size of a desert eagle. Cool as shit for sure but...dudes video says it all
@@jasondevereaux3369 the Insight LAM was adopted with the gun in the very beginning.
I’m 6 minutes into the video and I’m going to guess the worst pistol is going to be that service revolver that used .38 long colt. Please let me be correct. Edit: I was wrong😓😓😓
I feel like he should've crossed his chest like Catholics when he spoke the name John Moses browning.
DarkP,
CatLicks...lol
Browning was a Mormon. You should wear your magic underwear when speaking his name.
No Quarter Given I'm from Utah...lmao....Never wore magic underwear though.
@@Darkpassenger2012 I love Utah. One of the most beautiful places on earth.
@@noquartergiven7789 ...and morman chicks are hot...typically. You just gave to find the bishops daughter, if ya know what I mean.
As a Beretta fanboy, I fully admit I came into this expecting to be mega-mad.
Same
Same here. I thought I might have to sit through him hating on my Beretta. That might have been a game ender for me lol.
Same
I dont care what anyone says, the MK 23 can ride in my holster, any day.
@@desertwolfarmory he probably hunts with it i assume.
Slap a set of wheels on the 23 and YOU can ride it instead.
@@desertwolfarmory and you're the dumbass that mocks someone without knowing why it is done. Thereby exposing your own ignorance...
@@desertwolfarmory so like the French special police GIGN who use the MR73 which is a sniper revolver?
@@desertwolfarmory clearly you didn't read it correctly, A SPECIAL FORCES UNIT USES A REVOLVER WITH A SCOPE ON IT AND IT WORKS GREAT.
"offensive pistol" means it shoots insults at the target. Or the shooter...
Offensive because it is not a Glock.
@@stig1280 I´m Austrian, so every gun not a Glock or a Steyr is offensive to me ;)
@@sim.frischh9781 I love both of those Austrian brand's, although I wish Steyr would put a better front sight on their pistols?
"offensive pistol" means it triggers them. (them = anyone other than the operator of the weapon)
@@sim.frischh9781 No love for Walther? I can't quit my PPQ!
Honorable mention: revolvers with aluminium cylinders aka Aircrewman
Contract specified a lightweight revolver for aircrew. Didn’t say anything about shooting them...
@@briansmithwins Uhh....I think you missed the point of providing the gun, but I'm being picky. :)
@@markh.6687 “making aircrews feel better” is a valid reason for equipping them with sidearms. That most of them won’t survive a situation where they need a sidearm is a different matter.
@@briansmithwins I THINK the Gov't. meant them for more than just moral support.....notice I hedged and said "THINK". Given the mess they created of the whole thing though....
We were still using the M1911 in W. Germany until the 90's. Got an Expert Marksman badge with it in Graf. back in 90.
Good old Grafenwoehr! 535 Engineer Co CSE
Early 90s here!
I understand all the points. I just think "worst" is the wrong choice of words.
Mac messed up by saying "Worst Handgun Adopted...", it should have been "Worst Adopted Handgun..."
The former says the handgun is the worse, the latter says the adoption is the worse. So Mac is sort of craping on the gun despite him saying he isn't.
Least adopted for it's role?
Least best...feel better now!?
Thought you were going to go with a WW1 revolver. I wouldn't say that HK is the worst, I would say pointless.
@@uglydog311 Geez, Jerry is probably one in the billion.
@@uglydog311 I'd love to master wheelgun one day myself :) But Jerry, he's faster with revolver than me with CZ and I'm not the slowest, believe me.
A 1851 colt
Note: the M9s that were 'exploding' and splitting and hit the Navy Seal in the face....yea, the military was using way overloaded rounds causing pressure way too powerful for what the pistol was designed to deal with. Further proof that the M9 on its own was perfectly normal, it was poor ammo, mags, and training that pissed people off about an amazing pistol.
makes me laugh the idea that the beretta it's not reliable. Used and abused worldwide since "ever" we can say, i never ever hear complain about. Yup, it's heavy, that's true.
no one broke with ww silvertip only use < 5000 rounds
European subgun ammo.
Colt .38 revolver during philippino war
Don’t expose Jeffrey Epstein’s death or else you will be melted
Most models of Colt revolver chambered in .38 Long Colt were produced and issued in the 1890's.
To my knowledge they weren’t shooting specials like we would today
@@danielgrant9213 and it was so bad that the army dug out the old 1873 peacemakers to ensure the guys they shot stayed down
"Every American should own a 1911 45acp", i agree with that 100%.
And us Canadians get a rubber banana. Oh wait that's the prime ministress wish list.
Or in 10mm.
*every American should own a GOOD 1911, not a RIA, Taurus, or Kimber!
Nah
@@orinjackson975 I've got about two thousand rounds through my rock island standard 2011 with no jams. Outshoots my father's kimber eclipse wether it's set up for 9mm or .22 TCM.
My 2" taurus snub nose 856 shoots one hole groups at 7 yards and 11 inch groups at 25 yards and I'm no Paul Harrell. A $1400 smith performance center model 10 will not give you those groups at over 4x the price. If I got a performance center I wouldn't be able to stash three of them around the property and have $300 left for ammo like I did with my 856's. You don't know what you are talking about or you have more money than sense. Money is a poor replacement for skill, practice, and familiarity with the tool. Just like a roofer couldn't hand me his roofing hammer and expect me to be able to put a roof on I couldn't hand him my nitro piston air gun and expect him to hit without teaching him the artillery hold. Give me any fixed barrel $100 bryco or jennings Saturday night special and I'll outshoot 90 percent of $1k gucci glock owners at the 25 yards line.
I would suggest the aluminum framed aluminum cylinder Colt / S&W M13, 38 spl. revolver, air crew special was a bigger flop imo.
The Mk.23 is essentially a large USP in .45 ACP.
Acquired a USP45 instead for that specific reason among others. Collateral being one of em 😆
And the USP is a great pistol also
Which I personally love the USP, those things were so badass in the 90’s. Still are but they were one of the only pistols coming with threaded barrels.
@@willy4018 one of the best pistols ever made...especially for suppressing...I’ve shot hundreds of different pistols and while the USP and its variants are larger, they are among the most accurate factory produced and among the most RELIABLE PISTOLS EVER MADE...JMHO 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Isn't it literally the other way round?
The Beretta butt-hurt many people. The myths and misuse were the only "problems" in the beginning. The safety "problem" is by newbs and no training/use troops.
Agreed, I loved mine in the Army (tanker) and I loved my 96 later, its accurate, reliable, and sexy to boot
I know a few SF that would annihilate this idiotic comment.
@@lucaschudleigh7193 Yeah, they are the experts in metallurgy and firearms design. Anecdotal stories are as valid as your arguments here! Sorry fool, the pistol WORKED and still does.
No disrespect to SF guys, but appeal to authority is not a valid argument.
My snake became anything but solid when the MK 23 was considered a joke weapon
Huh ?
!
@@troybranch9720 its a reference to a the video game Metal Gear Solid, where the main character Solid Snake used a mk 23 primarily and in its intended role.
Hahahahhaa
!Who's footprints are these?
Well done, sir!
A 2" group at 25 meters? Some people would be hard-pressed to do that standing, with a rifle.
Fore sure! Seems alittle much doesn’t it?!?!
Some of the "some people" couldn't hit if the muzzle was touching the target!
Yeah, I couldn't do that with an AR-15, much less any handgun ...
The pistol needs to be capable to do that. It's in the contract.
Gun santa is my new favourite. Seems like a friendly guy I could have a beer with and talk about gun history.
Consider the longest serving rifle in US army history the army got back doored into by the US Air Force and Marine Corp.
Mk23. Finally a gun that looks regular size in MACs hands.
I'm about the same size as him and i've had people joke about that with my desert eagle lol
How is your comment a week old already?
@@Ufos4dahoes i think members get early access
Wait...Beretta undercut SIG on pricing and won the contract...I'm guessing SIG learned from their opponents for the MHS trials when THEY undercut Glock on pricing and won the contract lol
They also provided exactly what the military asked for. A MODULAR handgun. The 19x isn't modular and to call it modular is a lie. Glocks just aren't that good anymore... don't get me wrong, they're reliable. But not any more so than any other striker fired polymer framed pistol.
@@noclass2gun342 you do get better build quality/features on other guns compared to a Glock, but for some reason I just shoot my Glock 19 much better than my other pistols with less training. That alone is the reason I love my Glock even though it costs more than many of their other competitors, doesn't come with metal sights, and has an okay trigger at best. Most modern guns these days are reliable even without the track record Glock has so I don't really consider that a major selling point anymore. As long as Glocks continue to be the most popular handgun in the world, I don't see them adjusting the prices or making major changes because they don't really need to be competitive.
@@JacksonWalter735 those are the very reasons I choose to carry a 1911. I just shoot it better than anything else. Would i recommend it to a new shooter, or one who wants to just shoot their guns and not maintain them, nope. But for me, it just works. I dont mind the extra maintenance requirements and the benefit i get in accuracy and confidence outweighs any downside
@@noclass2gun342 modularity is cool but no-one is going to getvto take advantage of it anyways
@@justinmanns1569 the point is, thats what the military asked for. In typical glock fashion, they tossed out the request and just did whatever the fuck they felt like. And glock fanboys licked that shit up like porn stars slurping up jizz in an adult film
I was a gunnersmate in the navy working in the armory and range. My own observation, marines and sailors typically did not qualify their first time with the 1911. When the change over to the beretta 92f occured just the opposite happened and most were qualifying their first time. But give me a 1911 or 92f i love them both.
92 WAY 2 BIG 4 my fingers.
Could only DA it left 'weak' handed.
Couldn't hit shit, went to P35, Then 1911 till injury, then G36.
Still miss that gem of a 1911.😢
"Heavy is good. Heavy is reliable. If it doesn't work you can always hit him with it." - Rade Šerbedžija aka Boris The Blade
Heavy is stupid
Someone had to refer Boris. Da!
In a gunfight the man with the heaviest gun has the advantage. Heavy = less recoil, more capacity, more powerful cartridge, and more accurate.
@@snek9353 I think your really stupid
@@popinmo "I think your really stupid"
- YOU'RE funny.
In desert storm they gave me a beretta M9 and I was a little sad. I told the armorer that I’d much rather have a 1911. The next time and every time after that I came to check out a weapon I got a 1911. They were still in inventory but phasing out. I qualified with both weapons the 1911 in the early seventies at enlisted BCT and the Beretta M9 in 1986 at officer basic. I enjoyed the Beretta but loved my 1911 much more.
Why are you so sentimental for an antiquated weapon? How is a gun that is prone to jamming and holds less than half the ammo of a double stack any good?
@@ccengineer5902 I can field that: when you have to use nonexpanding ammo, the .45 gives the impression of greater stopping power. Wether it does...that's debatable.
Any decently serviced 1911 is not "prone to jamming". Remember that when it was phased out there were guns in inventory from clear back to WWI!
The M9 is a good weapon, but the open too slide that lets dirt fall out, also lets it in...right on top of the exposed locking lugs.
Most people can't fire the M9's DA 1st shot for beans, and the grip circumference is port to say the least. For anyone with less than gangley philangies, the 1911 is easier to shoot well.
@@ccengineer5902 I wouldn’t call a handgun that served the US military for over 100 years antiquated...
@@ccengineer5902 after shooting 1911s for half a century, I have never had one jam using reliable Ammo. When it was for score my 1911 went bang when my M16 went click. We’re are all these jams of which you speak?
@@captbart3185 the 1911 fails in any field test. In a dirty environment, the 1911 reliably and predictably fails, because of how the frame rail is designed. That's why no modern pistol shares that part of the 1911 design. M16 is also an old design that should be updated. No modern firearm uses a gas impingement design. It's remarkable how long Americans cling to their weapons despite the flaws they carry and despite there being much better alternatives available. Simply remarkable.
love the intro lol make us think your going to shit on the 1911 i bet some peoples blood pressure spiked for a minute
This ought to get a rise by a lot of folks but imho the biggest error the military made with a handgun was not adopting the CZ75. I say this for many of the reasons you mention plus the price point would have been more reasonable than the berretta. However the US was not about to accept a weapon that in the 1980's whose country of origin was still part of the Soviet bloc. This did not stop a lot of other nations including many in Nato of taking advantage of what many including, me consider to be the best designed 9mm service weapon ever made. The CZ75 is to the 9mm what the Colt was the 45 acp.
It's not too late yet
Agreed 👍 CZ75 eats up any ammo
Easy to break down.
I have one not impressed no better than any other pistols I own
Uh oh, you're going to get on HK Social Media Girl's bad side with this 😀.
Yep, she's toxic. Not gonna fly too well. It's ok though, Tim has valid points. HK did what they were asked, but they were asked to do some goofy shit that made no sense.
If I take a picture of a battalion of soldiers armed to the teeth in Iraq no one cares
Upload a picture of a whore posing with a gun & everyone looses their minds!
@@Ufos4dahoes I don't know if we have ever seen a picture of her... HK Social Media girls runs their Twitter account and always has something snarky to say... she really embodies what people who think people who own HKs act like.
So..umm..guys. I don't have Twitter, FB or any of those major platform. Milsurp Mike Channel's comment and all of the replies has gotten my curiosity up now. So....who are you guys talking about?
@@Ufos4dahoes Some of us LIKE whores and guns. :)
Sig, I didn't Win Anything, It was chosen strictly on price
.....that would be the 21st century. This is about the 20th century.
In my college, in the faculty of engineering there is something we call the "german way": why make it the easy way if you can make it the hard way ?
As a Bosch Technician I fully approve this message
Tried go fix up a clean 1972 MBZ 300SEL. Just had a slightly burnt engine compartment. I'll fix it up & sell it for $$$ and go back to Hawaii in style. Famous last words. Sold it for the $500 I paid for it and limped back in '99. If I'd gotten the car started, that would be the beginning of my woes?
in the usps ,we got german engineered stuff, they turn-off the return line, we the power line.
“Oops I guess I had one in there!” That my friends is why you always treat a firearm as if it’s loaded!! (Not knocking you for it Tim, just a point to other folks!)
This might sound dumb, but I really want a double stack Tokarev with a picatinny on the bottom and a threaded barrel. 7.62x25 is such a cool round.
You are not dumb! You are weird like the rest of us! We all dream about this kind of stuff! Good luck my friend!
Cool idea. It’s a little zippy for a suppressor so it might not get as quiet as you want. Still pretty cool.
I want a Tokarev that shoots 10mm Auto.
Norinco makes P226 copy in 7,62x25 mm. Not a Tokarev, but still double stack with picatinny.
Double-stack Tokarev does exist
Search "súng K14"
This is like buying a Lamborghini and keeping it parked because the insurance is to high
Not only American's love the 1911. The whole world loves the 1911.
I don’t 😁
But sure I like .45 acp
@@mkw2555 😒
230 Grains of Freedom
1911 is a class act of a gun. Reliable, sturdy, unyielding, yet refined and modern in ways a gun of its era really doesn't deserve to be.