How To Tell If Your Apex Seals Are Blown In Your Rotary Engine
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- Опубліковано 1 лют 2018
- How to tell if you have a blown apex seal
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I watched this video far away from my FC so it doesn't get any ideas.
@Dat Boi Bruh moment
@Dat Boi Wrong car, wrong character
@Dat Boi its actually Ryosuke
@@nolansprinkle813 it’s actually dio
Im not sure if you did this on accident because of the meme or on purpose since the voice actor of ryosuke and dio is the same
Nope. One apex seal gone = two bad compression chambers on one rotor.
Man i have a rotary and watching this made me scared
What burns em out is cold start cold kill and the unburned gas stays in there, gas washes the walls of oil then restart wears seals a ton because no oil film on the walls. Cylinder engines do this too but the way piston rings are designed the wear doesn't lose compression near as bad because rings can expand with wear and still seal. The only thing that effects is ring gap but generally engine still will run a long time fine.
Plus say 4 cylinders wear and lose compression the other 4 that didn't can start and get the others fired up. Unfortunately u don't have that with a rotary or a single cylinder engine. Either it starts or not.
Twin rotor slightly better but yeah. Don't cold start car drive 3 miles and park. Let that thing warm up first...
Rotaries w low miles are ironically higher risk than high miles because at least the higher mile gets driven a lot
@@ShogunAutoworks So basically I can still drive it in the cold. But I just gotta let it warm up before driving?
same
Man I’m scared rn
When you blow one seal you effectively lose two (2) rotor sides. I heard one puff and two weaker puffs (lighter puffs with a distinct hiss) and one regular solid puff. If you lose two seals (or more) you would tend to hear no puffs (or lighter puffs with a distinct hiss as the chamber loses compression thru the compromised sealing element.) Got my info from a veteran rotary tech.
@2:29 I propose the following mnemonic device:
Puff. Puff. Pass.
In all actuality, you should only hear distinctive compression from one face, as one apex seal seals two faces of the rotor (think about it). Same goes for using a compression tester.
That is to say,
Puff. Pass. Pass.
More videos. I need to learn. I bought an FC and need to know these type of rotary related issues/signs/symptoms/repairs. Great job and thanks.
Can’t wait for the next video. I recently obtained my uncles 84 gsl-se and once I finish fixing my mustang I’m going to be bringing that in the garage for a minor resto. All original down the the exhaust
Well done and explain my friend, I have a RX-8 and had similar problems, tnx for a great video
Great information.
I don't know a whole lot about rotary engines.
So the how to tell if something is wrong information is greatly appreciated.
Really informative video Zack, keep it up!
Great advice! when I had my rx7 turbo, I had a variable boost and twisted it up too high... LOTS of power, then one day you go to start up and you hear the sound of rotors spinning with No compression at all..completely blown, zero start...I just replaced the whole block with a factory new one... like a beer keg.. they werent that expensive back in the day.. today though, I can only imagine!
Remove the trailing plugs, put a few squirts of oil in each housing, turn it over with some fresh gas and you can get most rotaries started.
Good video, pretty informative. Looking at getting an rx8, so getting info on them.
I thought he was to say “if you hear a puff, puff, pass” 😂😂
Awesome video and well explained. Subscribed
Thanks for the heads up. Been thinking what if scenario on my FC. Guaranteed not broken apex seal with how it performs and how you're showing a broken apex seal rotary will run. Have holes in the exhaust on the back close and on muffler, soldered on the other from previous owners. Waiting for parts from racing beat. Mazda over here cleaned out their storage for parts. Either way small horsepower gain and probably even less noise as exhaust not going through the muffler on one side, for the most part, makes quite a bit of noise already.
If you manage to unflood your engine by cranking the engine with the key and fuse to fuel relay out and start there's gonna be billowing white smoke from unburnt fuel. No brainer really but is a heads up for those thinking a coolant seal might've blown.
Since you’re the top channel that comes up when I search about rotaries, can you do an in depth tutorial on how to check for compression and what the engine bay should look like. I’m looking at an FB with a missing carb and I want to make sure all I need is a new carb and battery and not a whole engine rebuild. And I want to make sure I’m doing it right
Thanks man! Good vid keep it up!
So I glad I found your videos!
Great video! Appreciate the information and how easy you made it to understand. Looking to by my first RX-8 with 93k miles on it but never owned a rotary before!
hope you didn't buy it, thatll need a rebuild soon.
TFR lol I was planning to buy one that had 200k km on it, so 93k doesn’t seem too bad. The owner doesn’t know if it the engine has been rebuilt but claims that the engine is still working and drives great.
TFR lol I was planning to buy one that had 200k km on it, so 93k doesn’t seem too bad. The owner doesn’t know if it the engine has been rebuilt but claims that the engine is still working and drives great.
@@tfr6 I picked one up with 79k on it, but it does 0-60 in 6.3 seconds, and runs good. Just need to clean the cat out
Just bought a 2006 rx8 with 132k miles. It's been about 2 weeks and it runs amazing. Still gonna get the compression test and all that done just to be safe
Very informative. Thanks broh
thats was very helpful, thanks dude!
For other rotary owners, if your engine drops a lot of power like he showed, it may just be the coil packs. I thought mine blew because it suddenly felt like half the engine stopped working (which it did, I had 2 coil packs fail and the second one was very noticeable). Tested with a multi-meter, replaced the ones out of spec and ran great. Those coil packs fail about every 20-30k miles, and there are 4 of them in the RX-8 so its not uncommon for it to happen. You'll loose about 60% of your power or maybe even more like 70% (since only half your engine is running, and the other is acting like a giant air compressor without ignition), and it sounds all kinds of weird since now its an air compressor plus an engine.
So before panicking, check the coil packs, they are fairly cheap but nobody ever has more than 1 in stock at stores so you'll need to walk to several stores if you have to (but it will run with just one coil pack per rotor, poorly, but good enough for like 80-90% performance and good enough to drive to the next auto parts store. Good luck and keep those rotors brapping!
Hmm got me thinking now. My coil has a big crack in it and my car did lose a lot of power. Still starts like a champ though
This was a very informative video.
Love your videos
Yo', nice video! You got a new suscriber!
A penguin is travelling along the coast of New Zealand when his car breaks down. He speaks to a local mechanic who comments "It looks like you've blown a seal" to which the penguin quickly retorts "Yeah? Well you f*ck sheep!"
How much did you spend in total on the 13b swap? I’m thinking about it but I’m not sure it’s in the right price range
blown apex seal sounds like a go kart or a lawn mower
Thank you brother I have a 2006 RX8 much love
Nice informative video bro! If the car gives a a slight irregular idle let say at a traffic light, what could this be?? Could this be i need Plugs and wires and coils?
Did you find out what it is? Mine does that a lot.
I think its probably due to computers expecting a brand new engine and using those fuel injection formulas when in reality, every engine has wear (its just not a big amount for piston engines, so its more present in rotaries). That's what I would guess, because it seems to give it a little more rev for a second after it recovers (which is what a carbaurated engine will do sometimes with the extra unburnt fuel, but the 13b I have is fuel injected, so that wouldn't make sense, its probably computer compensating for rpm). Mine has fairly new race coil replacement, but I will be changing out the plugs soon. I wouldn't think it would be plugs though, it only does it on mine when idling super hot after driving around fast. Its enough to drop the RPM gauge down to 500 rpm to where I think its going to stop the engine, but it's always revved back up.
One fix would be to turn the RPM up a little (it doesn't happen at 1k rpm or any amount of throttle). It may be like my diesel Mercedes where I had it idle at 500 rpm because it could, but maybe it really shouldn't and 900 rpm was just an arbitrary number by marketing since people might think 1k rpm was "idling high", which for a normal engine probably would, but its not a normal engine.
Can the seal deteriorate? I'm looking at a 81 thats been sitting since 94 with 120k miles... I don't know if the engine has been rebuilt or not, haven't asked yet
My Rx8 has been Idling like a Subaru Lately. But it still has power every now and then. Im really confused. Theres no Vac leaks and ssv does knock but it doesn’t knock on cold start whereas the rumble happens immediately.After warm up the SSV starts knocking and ofc it needs replacement, but could this my problem. Its been struggling to rev most times. Lightly pushing gas pedal it does fine but if i need to floor it it will go but make a loud metal thumping noise coming from intake. Which is in sequence with exhaust Rumble(I have Aem Cai). Coilpacks and Wires are all good but i still have misfires around 4-6k rpms. Basically my rx8 SOUND like its got a blown seal but it sometimes doesn’t FEEL since the power is there.
what about blown side seals? would that make the engine feel like thumping?
What's the price for both at a shop I'm thinking of looking for a rx8 I want some headaches lol
What direction do you crank the engine by hand
I have a 85 rx7 12a wat kinda rebuild should I get
How hard was that 13b swap?
I just bought an n/a FC so i've been watching your videos. Right now it puffs a little bit of white smoke on cold starts but then it goes away. Also lost a bit of coolant on the 1hr drive home, but the radiator cap is bad so I hope thats the problem and not the coolant seals. (which the guy said he replaced...)
Pulls really hard though, just wont go into first/reverse anymore so replacing clutch system comes first.
Keep on the coolant you'll be fine I've had blown coolant seals for over a year. Still daily driving and track beaten
Sorry bro.. if it wont go into first or reverse... you're looking at a new trans.. or a rebuild. Unless... you dont use the clutch for shifting between gears at all...
Yo I got a 13b and it lags start like the vid I got there but bc it's low on coolant and needs new battery . It also blows white smoke at the start when it first turns on. But after 15 secs it stops ....easy fix or should I just not fuck with it
@3:35 Jesus... even my body hurts just listenning to the motor trying to start....
Thanks buddy.
I just got a 1979 rx7 and it needs new seals and smokes so I don’t know what I need to fix
I lost 1 of the rear rotor apex seals and my shit starts evertime like a champ, and the other 2 on same rotor were stuck, i unstuck them, my no start when hot issues have always been other problems and never the motor..
The first gen is my favorite one
I have a rotary lamp made from a rotor and rotor housing from an rx8 and one apex seal is blown and they weren’t so lucky the housing and the rotor have super deep scaring on them and are completely ruined
I need an FC in my life.
zvmb get an fb, they are just as nice as an fc and still tons of fun. Also they are way cheaper.
i want an fb :(
No no you dont its a bad headache
I'm not the legal age to drive yet but I want a rotary engine so bad no matter what car RX8 RX7 don't care so this video helped me a lot thank you
just bought a fc s4 turbo 2 hardtop. subscribed!
i found a rx-7 with a blown apex seal, will i need a new engine or can it be fixed? which route is the best?
Depending on what if anything it took with it a rebuild could do the trick but the only to find out if it's rebuildable is to tear into it.
Gonna be honest, I really wish the community would say more than likely you'll need new housings, rotors, ect for a rebuild instead of just saying you need the $1300 rebuild kit. That was the entire reason I even got my FB cause I was told countless times that its not a big deal if the engine blows, all you need is a rebuild kit from Atkins. I understand it's partly my fault for not doing even further research, but the community (or just the general knowledge on rotaries, not sure what to blame) was VERY misleading at first. The general consensus for most people at first is all you need is the rebuild kit, but that's only if you're REALLY LUCKY, I just wish people would mention that probably won't happen more often.
pepsuchan from what ive read over tge past 3 years of owning a rotary when you rebuild you can expect to replace the rotors and the irons in most cases. Id have to believe that when a seal wears out it would have to fall out into the housing causing catastrophic damage to the rotor and housing. Thats my guess anyway
Yea It sucks. To actually rebuild an engine your looking at lots of money. On Atkins Rotary the rotors are about $750 (2) = $1500 plus a couple housings $600 (2) = $1200
Plus a rebuild kit $1250. If you need an Eccentric shaft that's another $1300...
You most likely cant rebuild for less than 3k
Hey mate I'm looking at getting a rotary but some people have been getting in my head they say a rotary won't last 80,000kms even when looked after lol what's your experience can they last!? Thank you!
Ceramic seals last forever but are very delicate (extra sensitive to detonation and expensive). Aluminum/iron impregnated seals are virtually indestructable when it comes to detonation but last a very short time.
@@ngrinshift4383 Interesting comments. Do u know if premixing 1/2 - 1oz 2 stroke oils will definitely help seals or just a myth? Also if steel Apex seals are "indestructable' than why the short life? Thanks 🙏⭐
Yup I need new seals guess I have to pull out the engine
Good video
Zach how does an apex seal blow? My fc hesitates to start. Also my rx7 blows white smoke when I cold start it
x1WARRIOR1x could be a coolant seal. Check to see if your coolant is muddy looking
This video actually helped me a lot though zack. I tested the engine and I do have a blown apex seal. Luckily though I have a 13b from a parts car to use. Thank you for your help though man I’m so glad you make rotary videos
I’m new to rotary’s and trying to learn more about them. Would it be a bad idea to replace apex seals every certain amount of miles before they have the chance to blow
The apex seals are on the rotors, which are completely inside the engine. in order to replace them, you must completely disassemble and rebuild the engine.
Shooting Cars I understand that part but is it that much of a hassle to replace before they decide to blow
Just tried this out on the lot. Rotaries sound fine but the AC acts weird when I'm in first or reverse. Is that normal?
Check battery connections & alternator power. I had similar issue and fixed it because AC is affected by electrical power.
What do you mean "blew"? Does the apex seal wear down until clearances are no longer met, or does it physically break into pieces? How exactly does it fail?
Factory seals shatter into hundreds of pieces.. 95% of the time they get drug around I side the housings and leave what's called "devils nail marks". There are several videos on what happens. There are a few race apex seals out there that just bend and dont shatter. Those are highly recommended to be used on rebuilds just to save your expensive housings from being destroyed. Just saying.. ppl should look into it.
thinking about buying an rx7 fc. preferably a turbo II. Thing is I live in Pennsylvania, and it would be my daily driver, also I've been driving stick for years and never had the privilege of driving a rwd car so..thoughts anyone? lol
Thanks
Did you warm up the engine before reving it?
i think he didnt because the temp indicator was at the minimun
Unless it's the one at the bottom left
Puff the magic triangle.
If you hear a Puff-Puff-Pass, you know its time to get baked
when u blow one apex seal that causes two sides of the rotor to lose compression...then you'll only have one compression side working.....turning the engine three rounds by hand will give u 3 distinct compression pops per rotor....but with a blown seal you'll only hear one compression pop per three turns of the e. shaft....if you have an old school piston engine compression tester hooked up you might see 20 to 30 psi on that rotor, which is an average of the three compression cycles. for example...0 psi plus 0 psi plus 90 psi.....
Interesting comments. Do u know if premixing 1/2 - 1oz 2 stroke oils will definitely help seals or just a myth? Thanks
Did you settle down with Emori ? I see she is feeding you well you, you lucky bastard
Wow. Like ... that is one old ass mazda he has there. Lol. I'm hoping to repair an apex seal on a 05 mazda rx8 and trying to find the parts and how to out there
its funny cause I felt like mine blew but I was never able to figure it out, I have a video on my channel of turning it on, but It never wanted to run properly, would just run like garbage and turn off, I replaced ECU, Injector Seals, etc and it never fixed it, just puffed a little bit of white smoke ( GAS ) and turned right off, it would flood like crazy
could be coolant seals? I'll have a video out next week about those
Nope, never puffed a lot of white smoke, it only puffed a little bit of smoke, which was gas because of the smell, car never burned through coolant, if you watch the vid on my channel you'll see what it was doing exactly
Sounds like maybe the AFM wasn't connected.
The most creative people are motivated by the grandest of problems that are presented before them each turn of the crank one apex lines up in the plug hole to get flooded each time fresh fuel FLOODED WASTED FUEL simple, straightforward
however there are many disadvantages to the rotary engine which has kept it from being successful. frist it is the big fat leading plug hole
Just picked up a 2004 yesterday for $350 towed (owner claimed needed new seals) now searching for ways to rebuild, if over $1,500 im throwing my 550 WHP LS3 in it that I have lying around my shop.
Lucky! I paid $4,000 for my 05 it runs and drives great though
WHEN A APEX 2MM LINES UP WITH THE LEADING PLUG HOLE 14MM MAJOR LEAKAGE
Free-piston linear generator
Why your engine light on
Love the Video but check your hair @ 5:18 LOL! Thanks for the info!
I'm supposed to buy my gsl-se today... been up since 7am... guy hasn't replied yet 💔
Max Goldberg, BSME just got here after a 2 hour drive and still no reply lucky small town in .CA I found it driving down the street but not going to show up since he is out of town and don't want to be disrespectful
What is most common part that would need replacement if a apex seal breaks.
The rotors, housings, and irons are all at risk of being damaged when an Apex seal blows
Thanks alot, that why everyone buys aftermarket apex seals I guess stronger and don't have to worry about expensive parts breaking
@@sammyturbo786 Some aftermarket apex seals are also advertised as "softer" so if they do blow, they don't gouge the other parts
My rx7 will run off one for like 20 seconds then it immediately goes back to normal with power and all, anyone know what’s going on?
Sounds like you're losing compression on the one housing. Possibly clogged omp orifices.. if you still have them. I recommend removing the omp and using a block off.. and, running a good premix and new spark plugs.
One blown apex seal means you lose 2 faces of the rotor because the two faces are now bridged
Mazda rx8 dies when I come to a stop or slow down. Took it to Mazda they couldn't help me. Anybody have any idea what could be wrong?
Did you ever end up finding out with the issue was?
3rd motor put in car. Bad APEX seal. Must put new oil injectors when you change the motor.
One low compression face is a side seal failure.
I JUST FOUND A NEW TERM FOR ROTARY ENGINES: TWINNY SPINNY DORITOS
not new at all sry
Or a side seal
You have any ideas what is causing my 08 to not want to start right away once its warmed up
Dave's garage Hey man. Not an expert or anything but have done a lot of research lately: The Gen 1 RX-8s came with a weak starter from the factory that can very often cause this problem. However, this is an easy fix, as a newer high-torque starter will correct this issue. The install is easy too. Check out Driven by madness; he's got a good video on installing the new starter 👍
Thank you. Since this comment i actually fiund driven by madness and did the starter thing and it didnt help
Dave's garage Damn man I'm sorry. Have you checked the compression? Same guy (Driven by madness) has a super simple vid on that too...
After that I'm just not sure man 🙁
@@danielredheffer9309 yeah im about to do that next.
Dave's garage Checked out your video for your RX-8. Does the check engine light stay on?
compression check
HERE IS WHY IT FLOODS APEXS FAILURE WHEN IT IS IN THE PLUG HOLE
The blown apex seal clip sounds like a motorcycle
what i learn from ths video is that when the apex is broken, it looks n sounds very very bad
HEMI ROTARY BREAKTHROUGH ON UA-cam
endoscope
the keg was ruined from you trying keep starting it.....
So this is the pain of rotaries
yes indeed!
I came here after carsandbids... thisssss!
A rebuild for a rx8 in Australia is $10,000 AUD or about $7000 USD 😭 that’s a drive in drive out OEM rebuild
You can buy a whole Rx8 for that price here in the states my guy. 😅
Well shit I was hoping mine was leads/plugs/coils but after seeing this it looks like one of my seals is blown
BLOWN APEX SEALS!!! *crys*
3:12 That example isn't possible
SMALLER VOLUMES AND LARGER VOLUMES 4 STROKES ALLWAYS MOVING IN A ROTARY MOTION
8,501 subscriber.
Apex seals don’t “ blow” they wear out or fracture a rubber seal can blow
They wear out then they fly out (commonly when parts fly out from compressive pressure forces like a frag, people call that "blow out", similar with tires etc). Once they wear enough (or foreign material shatters it), then they can fly out of their housing and through the exhaust (hopefully it goes through the exhaust quickly without damaging anything else)
DAMRIGHT
Just happened to me smh
all wankel engines have been running on 80 lbs compression vs 135lbs?