Stifflers Web brace kit for the 79-93 Fox Mustang+ Maximum Motorsports subframe connectors+ 1x3" mild steel box tubing along the rocker rails+ CE Mild steel 8pt cage, YES, welded through the floor pan+ Maier MOD1 narrow leaf, Panhard bar kit+ Shelby style front tower brace+ triple adjustable Mustang II IFS set up in a '68 Mustang coupe= PERFECTION ! Hope everyone has a happy 2024 !
Frame connectors in my 69 Camaro made a huge difference in stiffening the car and those were bolt ins! Handling and acceleration were both tremendously improved.
Anyone who's actually installed subframe connectors on a unibody chassis like a Fox know immediately how big of a difference they make. You can very easily feel how much more rigid the car is, and how much less it twists. Yeah, this video is total bullshit.
He's right...for the style suspension he talks of using and the intended use of the vehicle he is modifying. As usual though with anyone that has an interest in selling you something, he unfortunately just passes everything else off as garbage. Thats not really the case and his way of doing things isn't the only viable way. (and there are certainly less intrusive ways to add stiffness) You can judge subframe connectors very simply by looking at how they attach and how well the connections spread the load into the attachment points. For the most part, the longer (more spread out...) the attachment points are the better. If stresses are confined to a very small area they will flex surrounding metal almost like a hinge and eventually the metal will fail. Spreading those stresses over a larger area will increase the stiffness and add a lot of durability to the vehicle. It all comes down to intended use, as a road course vehicle is dealing with different dynamics that say a drag car. It also comes down to cost V/S improvement over stock. Is it worth the additional cost and effort to gain ultimate frame stiffness when a less expensive, and much less invasive setup will make a noticeable difference at 1/10 the cost and effort? Maybe...maybe not.
That kind of where I started in to looking to see if I will hurt the car. I've two kits that the car front and rear and intended to added some additional home pieces as well. Will I make it too stiff? Or fuck it and see what breaks instead of loosing hair over it. I do know the probability of abuse is high. Twisities, drag, air time. It's a Phat B, b body Mopar no less. Very fat. Something has to give. Maybe with so much added all over the car something will snap or maybe it will spread the load, who knows?
I guess it depends on the car. These are way stronger than the commercial ones I see for my car. This is almost like what OEMs do on convertible cars. Its welded all along instead of just at the front and rear. The commercial subframe connectors helped my car immensely, but this would take the torsional rigidity even higher.
Yup. I put a set of weld on sub-frame connectors on a 1990 Mustang GT convertible and it made a HUGE difference. You could lift it by the frame and still open and close the doors. Couldn't do that before and it was a non-abused low mileage car.
Properly designed subframe connectors would have a tall vertical span. The problem is that most people don't want the beam protruding into the passenger compartment. The compromise is to add a longer horizonal span connecting the frame rails.
properly designed for what? of course folks dont want a beam sticking through the floor. the vertical span could go all the way to the top of the car....and all around the cabin....oh wait, thats a roll cage. well we can do that too, but by that time you should just build a race-car from the ground up. fine line between maximizing street performance and creating something thats not suitable to be on the street at all.
@@NINJA4RL Thanks for the comment. There are several Mustang performance parts manufacturers (Griggs Racing and Team Z come to mind) who offer through-the-floor subframe connectors for added resistance to the torsional twisting forces.
interesting... not sure then if my subframe connectors are actually doing anything or not? ...but i rekon ill keep em on my 98 formula, if for no other reason than a jacking point & a safe place to use the jack stands...
So how do you explain the amount of flex in a Camaro with out subframe connectors vs with sub frame connectors? A great example is say putting the front of the car on jack stands then trying to open the door. The door will bind a bit more than when all 4 wheels are on the ground. Install subframe connectors and try the same test .the doors will bind less. Please explain how they did not stiffen the chassis. I'm not trying to be a jerk. I just dont understand your video. No explanation of what subframe connectors do and, do not do. Sub frame connectors do tie the front and rear suspension together if welded to the body they will make a car far more ridged.
The collective experience and knowledge us F-Body owners have has inspired several MFG to create these F/R subframe connectors for a reason, because they flat work as advertised.!
@@Thaddaeus417 camaros and nova are unibody. What didn't make sense to me is this guy cut the car to weld in braces to stop twist. Yet the suspension is still floating on sheet metal. Subframe connectors on the camaro and nova will attach to the rear spring mount. They seem to be far better and less work than cutting up the car and welding in beams vs having a frame that touches front and rear suspension.
@@TheChibitodd Doesn't that depend completely on the vehicle? From what I've read, the mounting of the subframe and/or the structure between the subframe and the attachment points for the rear springs are a particular weakness of the Camaro/Nova platform, but might not be for the cars (Falcon based?) that this guy was modifying. Could it be that reinforcing the side rails addresses the "low hanging fruit" for the cars in this video? PS: That said, I don't understand why the term "subframe connectors" even comes up with Falcon based cars. I don't know of any that have subframes; if not, wouldn't these simply be unibody braces?
One difference is the weld all the way along the beam. Makes it a lot more solid than the subfames I see for like 3rd and 4th gen camaros and firebirds that just weld at the front and the rear.
I was thinking this same thing. Talks about the physics of why subframe connectors don't work, then just basically welds in longer subframe connectors and says they're amazing. What?
Work = mass x distance. Not sure if I he is attempting to describe moment of inertia or a beam equation, but he is actually describing “work” which is not relevant.
@@jkmorgan1975 : Work is force x distance. Oddly, torque has the same units but is a different animal. The difference is one measures a force that is moving over a distance. The other measures a force applied to a lever arm.
Temper of the metal is junk according to my welder. The metal is thicker but has less rigidity than the originals. Its Chinese steel. A friend built a 1969 mustang with a full 12 point cage in chromoly. It made the car safe for high HP.
A watt's link ties the frame rails together??? Bullshit. Does nothing to stiffen the frame rails either. In fact-- you have to substantially tie the frame rails together before installing a watt's link.
This bloke talks alot of rubbish his kits have many weaknesses one is not using crush tubes when bolting parts into a chassis especially in a rear end. Also his front end parts are junk you would never swap double wishbone for a macpherson strut double wishbone has much better geometry and the so called bad geometry of the older ford suspension can be fixed to far out handle his kits This guy sells snake oil I have seen old fords with his tower notching kit bend because the support has been taken out of the strut tower. Do your own research before you buy any product not only his.
This guy states that subframe connectors are bad, and then he goes and stiffens up the subframe in a different manner. Don't talk crap if your are trying to sell something.
@@errolpoxleitner9586isn’t that all Chinese crap panels? Their door skin and front guards are always badly out of whack and only work when you use all Chinese
Stifflers Web brace kit for the 79-93 Fox Mustang+ Maximum Motorsports subframe connectors+ 1x3" mild steel box tubing along the rocker rails+ CE Mild steel 8pt cage, YES, welded through the floor pan+ Maier MOD1 narrow leaf, Panhard bar kit+ Shelby style front tower brace+ triple adjustable Mustang II IFS set up in a '68 Mustang coupe= PERFECTION ! Hope everyone has a happy 2024 !
Frame connectors in my 69 Camaro made a huge difference in stiffening the car and those were bolt ins! Handling and acceleration were both tremendously improved.
Cracks me up that most of the comments call “bullshit” which so do I. He’s selling something.
Anyone who's actually installed subframe connectors on a unibody chassis like a Fox know immediately how big of a difference they make. You can very easily feel how much more rigid the car is, and how much less it twists. Yeah, this video is total bullshit.
He's right...for the style suspension he talks of using and the intended use of the vehicle he is modifying.
As usual though with anyone that has an interest in selling you something, he unfortunately just passes everything else off as garbage. Thats not really the case and his way of doing things isn't the only viable way. (and there are certainly less intrusive ways to add stiffness) You can judge subframe connectors very simply by looking at how they attach and how well the connections spread the load into the attachment points. For the most part, the longer (more spread out...) the attachment points are the better. If stresses are confined to a very small area they will flex surrounding metal almost like a hinge and eventually the metal will fail. Spreading those stresses over a larger area will increase the stiffness and add a lot of durability to the vehicle. It all comes down to intended use, as a road course vehicle is dealing with different dynamics that say a drag car. It also comes down to cost V/S improvement over stock. Is it worth the additional cost and effort to gain ultimate frame stiffness when a less expensive, and much less invasive setup will make a noticeable difference at 1/10 the cost and effort? Maybe...maybe not.
That kind of where I started in to looking to see if I will hurt the car. I've two kits that the car front and rear and intended to added some additional home pieces as well. Will I make it too stiff? Or fuck it and see what breaks instead of loosing hair over it. I do know the probability of abuse is high. Twisities, drag, air time. It's a Phat B, b body Mopar no less. Very fat. Something has to give. Maybe with so much added all over the car something will snap or maybe it will spread the load, who knows?
Dude is there any way I can get in contact with you for advice on my stang
I jacked up only , one side of rear of a car with proper frame connector and the entire car lifted at once, i say no flex at all if done right
I guess it depends on the car. These are way stronger than the commercial ones I see for my car. This is almost like what OEMs do on convertible cars. Its welded all along instead of just at the front and rear. The commercial subframe connectors helped my car immensely, but this would take the torsional rigidity even higher.
Yup. I put a set of weld on sub-frame connectors on a 1990 Mustang GT convertible and it made a HUGE difference. You could lift it by the frame and still open and close the doors. Couldn't do that before and it was a non-abused low mileage car.
Properly designed subframe connectors would have a tall vertical span. The problem is that most people don't want the beam protruding into the passenger compartment. The compromise is to add a longer horizonal span connecting the frame rails.
properly designed for what? of course folks dont want a beam sticking through the floor. the vertical span could go all the way to the top of the car....and all around the cabin....oh wait, thats a roll cage. well we can do that too, but by that time you should just build a race-car from the ground up. fine line between maximizing street performance and creating something thats not suitable to be on the street at all.
@@NINJA4RL Thanks for the comment. There are several Mustang performance parts manufacturers (Griggs Racing and Team Z come to mind) who offer through-the-floor subframe connectors for added resistance to the torsional twisting forces.
interesting... not sure then if my subframe connectors are actually doing anything or not? ...but i rekon ill keep em on my 98 formula, if for no other reason than a jacking point & a safe place to use the jack stands...
Proper subfram connectors need the be tied to the floor pan.
So how do you explain the amount of flex in a Camaro with out subframe connectors vs with sub frame connectors? A great example is say putting the front of the car on jack stands then trying to open the door. The door will bind a bit more than when all 4 wheels are on the ground. Install subframe connectors and try the same test .the doors will bind less. Please explain how they did not stiffen the chassis. I'm not trying to be a jerk. I just dont understand your video. No explanation of what subframe connectors do and, do not do.
Sub frame connectors do tie the front and rear suspension together if welded to the body they will make a car far more ridged.
The collective experience and knowledge us F-Body owners have has inspired several MFG to create these F/R subframe connectors for a reason, because they flat work as advertised.!
@@Thaddaeus417 camaros and nova are unibody. What didn't make sense to me is this guy cut the car to weld in braces to stop twist. Yet the suspension is still floating on sheet metal. Subframe connectors on the camaro and nova will attach to the rear spring mount. They seem to be far better and less work than cutting up the car and welding in beams vs having a frame that touches front and rear suspension.
@@TheChibitodd Doesn't that depend completely on the vehicle? From what I've read, the mounting of the subframe and/or the structure between the subframe and the attachment points for the rear springs are a particular weakness of the Camaro/Nova platform, but might not be for the cars (Falcon based?) that this guy was modifying. Could it be that reinforcing the side rails addresses the "low hanging fruit" for the cars in this video?
PS: That said, I don't understand why the term "subframe connectors" even comes up with Falcon based cars. I don't know of any that have subframes; if not, wouldn't these simply be unibody braces?
My 4th gen was day and night after installing the SFCs. It would 3 wheel going up into my driveway after install.
I wonder who sells the stiffeners he welds in there?
That metal you were welding in under the rockers @3:35, isn't that doing pretty much the same as sub-frame connectors?
yes but it's more expensive bc he cuts out body panels and charges more XD
One difference is the weld all the way along the beam. Makes it a lot more solid than the subfames I see for like 3rd and 4th gen camaros and firebirds that just weld at the front and the rear.
I was thinking this same thing. Talks about the physics of why subframe connectors don't work, then just basically welds in longer subframe connectors and says they're amazing. What?
Yea there just side frame connecters
If youve ever been inside a refridgerated trailer, youll see what they use for load restraint... looks similar to what hes welding in haha
Force = Mass x Acceleration, not distance
Work = mass x distance. Not sure if I he is attempting to describe moment of inertia or a beam equation, but he is actually describing “work” which is not relevant.
@@jkmorgan1975 : Work is force x distance. Oddly, torque has the same units but is a different animal. The difference is one measures a force that is moving over a distance. The other measures a force applied to a lever arm.
I just got a headache
Does that metal raid stuff come pre made or do you have to dimple.die it all by hand?
Monocoque and unibody are not the same thing.
That's why you use gussets
Dynacorn bodies ? Are they good ?
Temper of the metal is junk according to my welder. The metal is thicker but has less rigidity than the originals. Its Chinese steel. A friend built a 1969 mustang with a full 12 point cage in chromoly. It made the car safe for high HP.
Very rough. Figure 10-20k to make them workable.
Your physics is a little off? Where did you attend university?
A watt's link ties the frame rails together??? Bullshit. Does nothing to stiffen the frame rails either. In fact-- you have to substantially tie the frame rails together before installing a watt's link.
Crocodile Dundee ...WTF ???
Cars with B pillars like that POS are a different animal than American 2 door coupes.
@@noybgooglepuppet6025aye thanks for not lashing out on all aussies because of one dude talking crap trying to sell his product
Mass x distance = force
this is bunk
This bloke talks alot of rubbish his kits have many weaknesses one is not using crush tubes when bolting parts into a chassis especially in a rear end. Also his front end parts are junk you would never swap double wishbone for a macpherson strut double wishbone has much better geometry and the so called bad geometry of the older ford suspension can be fixed to far out handle his kits
This guy sells snake oil I have seen old fords with his tower notching kit bend because the support has been taken out of the strut tower. Do your own research before you buy any product not only his.
This guy states that subframe connectors are bad, and then he goes and stiffens up the subframe in a different manner. Don't talk crap if your are trying to sell something.
dynacorn is crap does not fit
Non of the aftermarket panels are exactly right so you make them fit right a damaged lot of work.
@@errolpoxleitner9586isn’t that all Chinese crap panels? Their door skin and front guards are always badly out of whack and only work when you use all Chinese