Lionel Messi vs. Virgil van Dijk Ballon d’Or debate gets HEATED! | ESPN FC
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- Опубліковано 2 гру 2019
- ESPN FC's Alejandro Moreno, Dan Thomas, Frank Leboeuf, Mark Ogden and Steve Nicol take on the major arguments after Barcelona’s Lionel Messi narrowly beat out Liverpool defender Virgil van Dijk for the 2019 Ballon d'Or award, including: should Messi care that he has gone above Juventus’ Cristiano Ronaldo with an unprecedented sixth win, (4:26) have players like Real Madrid’s Karim Benzema been ranked too poorly by the voters, (5:10) will PSG stars Kylian Mbappé and Neymar be the next players to dominate the Ballon d’Or discussions, (6:04) and is the Ballon d’Or meant to be for the best player in the past year or the best player on the planet.
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Mans said “he only had 50 goals” ......
id like to see him score 50 goals for a pro football team
ikr
And choked in CL Semi lol
@@msfantastico4139 Bit before that he did smash Liverpool by scoring two goals against them. You guys seem to ignore that fact.
@@msfantastico4139 and liverpool choked the prem so whats your point. Youre ignorant if one match makes u ignore a players entire season
The man had 51 goals and 19 assists in 50 matches. Are you people brain deficient???
I remember Copa America
@@JESUSisComingBackSoon-ue9pc doesn't matter, he carried barca in cl,most goals in Europe, most goals in cl 2018 19..and in copa America he won bronze
Nobody is brain deficient, they both had a case for the award. City had to have an astronomical year for Liverpool not to win the EPL. And in my opinion head to head Liverpool beat barca in the champions league so in my opinion I'd give van diyk. Also considering their performances in their national team. Messi had an incredible year but van dijk more than deserved it too remember this guy was not dribbled past for almost an entire year doing it in wins.
@@kritarthanand6922 Messi is the king of bottling in the big matches.He never performs well,for example look at the UCL Semi final against Liverpool,Copa Del Ray final against Valencia and Copa America semi final against Brazil
@@vivekmenon5648 this award is for individual performance and Messi describe it well in last season ,and it's not team award...
Remember two years ago, people went crazy when Salah scored 44 goals. They said Salah had a GREAT season but Messi with 54 goals and 24 assists had a good season only? Nonsense
Yes, cause that is in the Premier League. Different ball game.
@@roysmith5711 yeah exactly, game is faster in the PL so there are more counter attacks and scoring attempts. It's harder in La Liga because game is slower. Messi creates 90% of all Barca's goals and chances. If his teammates weren't so bad he would finish with 60 goals and 40 assists.
@@roysmith5711 y'all delusional epl fans are sickening. Which player scored more goals against the top 6 epl teams last year? Hint: he doesn't even play in the epl..
Brain defects
@@kra.7671 yeah, against Man Utd.
Imagine saying Messi didn't deserve a YEARLY AWARD when he scored more than 70 goals and assists, just because he had a bad second leg against the most complete team in Europe. Solid argument mate. So let's continue the nonsense and say VVD doesn't deserve it also because Liverpool conceded more than 35 goals last year and didn't win the league...
Not that I agree with this whole process (see Modric last year), but it's an individual award. Everyone with their eyes attached to their brain can see Messi was the best individual player out there, dragging this terrible Barca team to a CL semi-final and comfortably winning the league while contributing to something like 70% of the goals.
Exactly!!!
I fucking love u
exactly by that logic if we only count 1 game then origi should have won the ballon d'or.. last season messi finish 5th is a joke.. he should be in the top 3..
Messi wasn't even bad in the second leg at Anfield, he hit the post, and looked like the only Barça player likely to produce something (as usual)
Terrible defending let him down
@@trajan182 yeah, he had more dribbled than any other player on the field, and took/ created all 8 of Barca’s shots
if salah or mane had 50 goals and 20 assists they would have won the ballon d’or over vvd too
Well many say CR7 had a shitty season while sxoring 30+ goals and 10+ Assists.
These are solid numbers
@@justinoppermann3997 Messi and Ronaldo are judged by their own standards not by the standards of mere mortals. 30 goals are horrible for a lethal goalscorer as Cris is considered while Messi score 50 goals essentially from the midfield.
@@sammysmartwizch3184 fax, ppl tend to forget that Ronaldo is a pure goalscorer while messi is more then just a goalscorer
@@sammysmartwizch3184 but that doesn't mean people should say he was poor.
EXACTLY. if a person like sterling scored 51 goals with 20 assists while playing 50 games despite not winning the CL, it STILL wouldnt even be an arguement cuz that is CRAZY but cuz its messi this was so close to the point that van dijk was only 7 point behind. If this was sterling there would be a gap over 200 points. Messi competes vs himself and its just stupid to see.
06:30 this is the example of why Messi is a victim of his own success. He scored more than 50 goals, whilst being injured for 2 months last season, and it's described as a good year? No, it's a UNBELIEVABLE year.
Yeah, all of those defenders and keepers don't deserve to be considered after scoring less than an attacker.
Nick Jones he only missed 4-5 games ffs
XhoowieX Messi carries his teams. That’s the difference. Also, he’s a midfielder and a forward. He does everything in attack.
Alan Smith no he doesn't, he mainly plays as the main striker of the team
@@alansmith4655 Carried his teams to what ?? a shitty league title where Real only had 68 points and a copa america loss. While Van Dijk carried his team to 97 points in league, the champions league and the nations league final
51 goals 19 assist in 50 games.
What a time to be Alive!
Treasure the GOAT when he is still playing and stop meaningless debates.
@Ngm Mngw LOL, la liga is much harder than the Premier League mate
@@Charlie_Nice Funny I could ask you the same question. Both leagues are the hardest out of the big 5, but imo la liga is harder, because the bottom leagues actually put up a fight, 3 of them already beat Barcelona this season. Look at Liverpool, not obviously at their most impressive level but 12 wins out of 13...
@Ngm Mngw Hum. Liverpool/Chelsea last year? 25 points appart. 2nd and 3rd... now please..
Kowxley 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@Ngm Mngw lol German league is easier... Ronaldo went to Italy and I don't see him outscoring any one, Coutinho went to Germany and is doing better than he was in Spain, Neymar went to France and became worst... its not about the league, its each persons own Talent, Lewa is great, but don't compare him to the goat Messi, no even to Ronaldo.
“It’s always sad to see the same player win every time” man this isn’t a democratic election, it’s the best player in the world & unless someone else comes in & matches his numbers Messi will be head & shoulders above everyone
You right !
😂😂✊🏽
I don't have a problem with Messi as I think he is the best player of all time ..
That said judging by the comments here only goal scorers are eligible for the award which is wrong virgel changed Liverpool last year to a team that won the champions league i don't thinking that Messi added anything to Barca from last year
Vvd made Liverpool better let's not forget Liverpool still got to the champions league last season...and it's not all down to vvd..so are we trying to say vvd was the reason they won the championship league last season
tell me if Salah had 50 goals and 20 assits, who would you say should win it, van dijk or salah?, trust me everyone would have said salah and that would be deserved soo becasue no matter what league you play in or in what team, 50 goals and 20 assits are just a huge number which not even great great players accomplish, remmeber the time when 30 goals used to be considered legendary.
So Messi has to score exactly 92 goals before he has a great year?
Yeah Mark just didn't fancy the Argentain winning it.
Maybe that's what some of these pundits want. When most of them were playing, I doubt whether they ever crossed 20 goals margin 🤣🤣
And Nicols is a Virgil d^** rider
J C Considering Steve Nicol and his history and I don’t think he’s jealous of anything this team has...
Love how people miss his point he said messi is the best player on the planet but last season the top performer in the team that won the biggest trophy was VVD if messi did something at anfield I would agree but you cannot say like these guys they lost 4 nil but it's the other ten players fault not messi who was also on the field
6:30 “Messi had a good year not a great year”
This just proves the ridiculous standard messi has put himself at. If anyone burst onto the scene this season with Messi’s stats, that person would win it and nobody would ask questions. Messi makes it seem normal
Well said, I'm not saying vvd wasn't good but if it wasn't for mane also they wouldn't have talked about vvd because mane was the one saving them most of the time
He had a good arguement, Champions league is bigger than the spanish league, Liverpool wouldnt have won it without van dijk,
When liverpool played barcelona van dijk came out on top between himself and messi.
No, it proves that he had a good game at camp nou v liverpool and went missing at anfield, barcelona did almost nothing going forward, they created like 1 goal chance and got battered 4-0 on the other end. VVD transformed liverpool and was european champion, which is the most prestigious trophy in club football. This was his ballon dor, not messis, or ronaldo or modric or anybody else.
Denial
@@Tripnotik25 vvd hasn't been the best for 10 years or so... lol, that alone tells you something. Sergio ramos has scored some important goals for real Madrid when they won the Champions League , so he deserves one too ? Lol, look they both had a great season, but come on, what Messi does is just out this world . This is going to be known as the Messi era, hands down .
Ale said he is “idiotic” 😂😂😂😂
he is....look at his face when he was been told that..LOL
he really is. im so happy that ale said that, because maybe this premier league fangirl will think more than a sec now before he opens his mouth to tell us bullshit like that
Which minute did he say it ?
Finished him there and then😂😂
They act like the rest of liverpools defenders are scrubs and van dijk carries them 😂😂
g soto n how is mbappe sixth? Bernardo silva should be in the top five. Seriously the ranking doesn’t make any sense
Hard truth.
Liverpool is conceding goals left, right and center and guess who is not playing ? Joel Matip. Watch Liverpool games closely and he's the one doing all the tackling and dirty works, not Van Dijk. Van Dijk is a great defender, but the way English media and pundit overrates him is ridiculous.
@@samp.4542 true.. it was matip who stop messi from scoring at anfield not van dijk
@@marleyans6454 and Sam p don't be jealous boys it's only a game right!
Yow forget this. Can we talk about the guy that voted for alexandre arnold as number 1 😂
Rroxez 49 and then greizmann #2 and ter stegen #5 😂😂😂
Rroxez 49 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@emmettramirez18 i think that guy put aubameyang at number 2 lol
It pisses me off when journalists do stupid shot like that. That’s what skews the results and makes everyone complain. They’re just voting for their favorite players.
That is what happens when you watch football in radio.
who is this Best player on the planet but not the best year? how come ppl come up with such idiotic things to say? 50 goals in a season is a joke just becz messi has had 90? Utter Nonsense
Exactly what I was thinking 😂best player but not best that year.. I swear this English media is relentlessly stupid
Lionel Messi has never scored 90 goals in a season.
highest messi scored in a season was 72
@@SamikGhoshMusicals he did not have the best 2019 of any footballer.
50 goals ON FARMERS LEAGUE EASY TO SCORE
They need to get that guy fired. What you mean by “The usual good year” on Messi. Dude that’s just nonsense. Tell me when someone come and scored 50 goals and 20 assists in a year consistently
Dude yall acting like messi and Ronaldo are normal footballers
he's british。。。
he just a stupid fangirl. just like that..
Just like Ale said, an usual good year for Messi is a career to many others. Man we've taken the genius of Messi for granted. We'll know in a few years what he is in this sport.
Not to mention the fact that Messi starts most attacks from midfield up in Barcelona
"Idiotic" the right way to describe this debate!!
“Best player on the planet but not best performer of the year” potato
ronaldo way better than messi
@@keyuantejohnson6266 in your dreams 🤣
@@zeeshanaziz1115 ronaldo proven won the league and champions league in the premier league the best league in the world while messi has yet to prove himslef by moving to another league
Keyuante Johnson Messi doesn’t even play in the Prem and he has more goals against the top 6 sides than any player and Ronaldo played in that league lol
Keyuante Johnson was it hard to type that out with all the tears in your eyes?
6 Liverpool players in the top 20 and 3 of them in the top 5! And you still have guts to say VVD carried Liverpool to the CL glory, overlooking at what Mane, Salah and Allison did?
VVD won the Primier League player of the season but he did not win the Primier League. Why Manchester city was just a better team than Liverpool, their crucial goals came from almost everyone in their team including their last goal by Vincent Kompani.
So why are we failing to understand the difference between the best player and the best team.
Messi is the best player and Liverpool is the best team made of VVD, Mane, Salah and Allison.
Exactly! Thanks for those stats.
Beautifully spoken and very well said. Logic and common sense right there
Liverpool won the champions league. Did City win it? No.
Richard ok?
@@eldarion933 Liverpool did not win the Premiere Legea but VVD won the EPL player of the season.
Ale is my boy! Man said facts with that fiery passion aha
Meh...he doesn't seem to know that Mahrez won AFCON in addition to FA Cup and EPL title.
If Salah or Mane had Messi's stat last season, would that dude say they just had an okay year? The dude is just so confused
He is biased. you can clearly hear that he a liverpool fan
Ronaldo did score 46 goals for RM in 1 season. But not with man utd. Why? Because la liga is all about rm and barca, and sometimes atletico. But in EPL, even Leicester can win the league. Aspas scored like fun in la liga, did he do that in EPL, did Forlan did that in EPL?
@@muhammadfiqrullahbinmohdyu8259 the players you mentioned, Forlan and Aspas, were they at the peak of their careers when they were in epl? If you want to make a point, do it like someone who really knows about football Are the likes of Aguero, Torres, Silva, Carzola, Diego Costa, etc not from La liga as well? Why didn't you mention them as well. Y'all be acting like you have to play in England to be successful. ABSOLUTE RUBBISH!
@@adebolaidowu718 man, agreed there are lots of spain players success in England, and even better, player like Luis garcia, came from Barcelona b, xabi alonso, came from sociedad. But 1 you cant deny, la liga is not as competitive as epl. Im not saying you need to play in English to be successful. Messi still whatever all people say. Is only proven in la liga only as of now. If he really carries barca, why can't he do with Argentina? Ronaldo proved that when he brings portugal to win euro. Clearly Argentina have beter players than portugal
@@muhammadfiqrullahbinmohdyu8259 so Messi doesn't carry Argentina. For information, he has been to five five finals with Argentina cos was fortunate to win three of those finals doesn't mean he doesn't carry them. Do you think they could have even qualified for last world cup if not for Messi's hat trick on the final day? Between, who's Argentina's top scorer? How many Finals has Ronaldo been to in his life with his country compared to Messi? What you guys don't understand is that there is a difference between carrying a team and a team being organised. Is Ronaldo playing every role on the field for Portugal? So he didn't carry Portugal, the team was Organised and cos Ronaldo was in the team doesn't mean he carried them. What if Ronaldo was not there? I'm sure if Ronaldo was in Liverpool or Man City, you would have said he carried them too. And how does Messi and Ronaldo's performance hace to do with competitiveness of La liga in relation to Epl
They’re so delusional on here. The Ballon D’or is the best player of the year. That was clearly Messi, who got UEFA player of the week every week in the UCL?
StandardGenius no, maybe maybe maybe best player of this time, but of the year no, van dijk is the best this year , his form has been amazing.
No I think you’re the delusional one
Messi last season
✔Most goals in europe 52 goals
✔Most assist in all competition 23 assist
✔Most goals in Champions league 12 goals
✔Most goals in la liga 36 goals
✔Most goals vs top 6 EPL team
✔6th Golden boot - 3 in a row
✔Most assist in la liga ✔Most chances created ✔Most freekick goals ✔Most braces
✔Most goals from outside of box
✔Most hattrick in whole europe
✔Most MOTM award 17 times
✔Most MOTM in champions league
✔Contributed to 74/96 team goals
✔UCL goal of the tournament ✔UCL best forward
✔UCL most man of the week
✔Pichichi award
✔Laliga winner
✔Spanish super cup
✔La Liga MVP
✔ESPY award top male footballer ✔Highest average player rating in whole season - 8.48 ✅
Jake Pauler each starter from Liverpool’s team has showed out this year and made it easier for van dijk but when Barca was struggling Messi pulled them across the line every time and scored game winners. Messi gets the assists and when he doesn’t, he’s creating. Messi deserved it more than anyone and even after him mane would be before van dijk
@@isaiahbattle204 finally someone with football knowledge, speak bro!
It’s week 3 and I’m still not seeing Jesse Lingard on this show. The wait continues.
Im amazed that three liverpool players made to top 5.
@@yale5547 the whole top 5 should have been 4 liv players and messi
@@Hellou123 id put lewa in there tbh
@@rroxez4915 which liverpool player did lewa out perfrom last season ? mane? firmino ? salah? alison?
Rroxez 49 still very underrated
According to these arguments Ramos should’ve won about 2 ballon d ors
Ramos should've won Ballon d'Or with his red cards, jungle tackles, Kung Fu fighting and unprofessional fouls. Go on Sergio.
@@megadonmaster uhuh and? Did he also not defend well and score last minute goals?
Ramos prime vs vvd prime 😛ramos all day
no, but Xavi, Schnider, Ribery and Van Dijk did... Messi should have 3 Balon dors and Ronaldo should have 3 of them as well.
sadly this title has almost nothing to do with football
@@bsman321 Actually Messi should've won at least 10 if the Ballon d'Or had more to do with football and less with advertising and the image of footballers.
La liga is far more difficult to be win than UCL
Ask Zidane
Exactly. Oh RM is so great because they won the CL! Yeah? How can you be so great and not even win your own league?! How? Oh, cause Barca was greater over the long run, that's how. And anyone who watches Barca has known for awhile now, that Messi carries this team, the day he retires every Barca fan is going to be scared shitless about what comes next, me included.
@@eddiecastaneda8918 Zidane only won la liga once because he rests a lot of big players in la liga so they are fresh for champions league, this is what gave them the edge
@@nehal3674 That's fucking smart but cheating a little bit.
@@michaelalexander9386 No resting players is not cheating at all
@@tobiayo8146 i know it's not cheating but not every team does that so if you do that it gives an advantage.
I bet The guy at 6:20 only watch’s Messi few games a season lol
Lilbite50 yep only a few Barca games in champions league. Messi literally carries the team week in week out in la liga
Liberty or Death are you stupid or trolling, it’s really hard to tell
@@stevencats7137 are you?
B1ODIN Then you clearly haven’t followed up what’s been going on with AFA and other stupid decisions in regards to Argentina’s national team over the years. I’m just referring to this individually, not in comparison to other teams and their management.
B1ODIN aight cool let’s act as if messi doesn’t have ter stegen, pique, umtiti, alba, busquets, vidal, rakitic, coutinho, suarez to help him oh pls stfu
6:16 LOOL this guy is a joke
'Messi had a good year' 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Even in the second leg in the UCL where apparently he had a terrible game.....he still ended up creating 3 one on one chances for Suarez, Alba and Coutinho and they bottled it. Messi singlehandedly dragged Barca to the semi final and the la liga title.
Randy stfu and respect his opinion
Hamza Orakzai wrong
Mark Ogden is the only one who makes consistent analytical and logical sense. He’s not just giving his opinion, his research and insider knowledge speaks volumes by allowing him to provide accurate and solid arguments for and against, instead of ignorantly following unchallenged, popular opinion.
There is no denial that Messi is probably the best player to play the modern game, but, there is good reason to deny he was the best player in 2018/2019.
Respect go Alejandro for trying to put some sense into these people’s brains
LOL Moreno makes no sense. he's best argument is that if he had to pick a player in a schoolyard pick it would have been Messi and that Barca wouldnt have won La liga without him. I say they would have won(it was the weakest La Liga in 12 years) and no one can prove if im right or wrong and that's why it a dumb argument. Facts are that Barca didnt win the UCL(lost to Liverpool), didnt win the cup and Argentina didnt win the Copa(Messi scored 1 penalty and had 0 assists).
on the other hand, facts that Van Dijk was part of the UCL winners who ended their season with the 2nd highest amount of points out of all the teams in Europe(10 more than Barca).
also in 20 years when if ill tell my kids about the 18/19 stats it wouldnt be about Messi's goals, it would be about Van Dijk not letting anyone get past him the entire season. so even in individual stats Van Dijk deserves it more than anyone else
He is an idiot Alejandro, always worship Messi since he got into that ESPN studio
@@bsman321 tell these losers pliz. Criterias always change to suit messi for balon. No champions league no way he is winning it. Same reason he last won balon since 2015 coz barca has not sniffed UCL since 2015. Bullocks
@@benito0072 Pass the weed bro
Number 6, well deserved OVERALL INDIVIDUAL PERFORMANCES AND STATISTICS REFLECTS THE CLEAR AND OBVIOUS.
“It’s tiring to see the same person winning the award all the time” find a player who scores 50+ consistently....find a player who decides the game. As a matter fact find a player that Van Dijk believes who should win it other than Leo! It’s Ballon’d’or for godsake! Not just anyone
If Mane would go to la liga he would be scoring left and right as well. It's top defenders are old guys.
@@debjitnag474 Yeah. Even now, the only defenders that are worth anything are in Atletico Madrid and some in Real. Every other defender is sub par or garbage. You just go around youtube trying to make arguments that were based on something around 2 years ago? Quite pathetic if you ask me.
@@marcostorres2329 Ya La Liga is so pathetic that even mid-table La Liga teams are defeating the 2nd place PL team...We all saw what happened at the 2021 Europa League final.
that Mark Ogden has a weird way to see greatness
Guy has no brain...pretty sure he lost money when he bet on van dijk!!!
@@ViktorNegan 🤣🤣🤣
The fact that Messi was the only one doing something against Liverpool in the second the leg says everything. The whole game he was basically isolated alone with the ball. It’s not his fault the 9 other players on the pitch were awful.
Imagine if Valverde wasnt the manager
If valverde wasn't the manager I guarantee you messi and barca would at least have another champions title.
Chris how disrespectful you are to seasoned players like Luis Suarez, Pique to fit what you wanna get to be the story so that Messi wins. Field a team of Messi and make him win the World Cup and UCL if you at it
Chris Messi never scores in the UCL when there team gets knocked out. However Ronaldo on the other hand...
How do you lose when you are 3-0 up tho is beyond me
Ale Moreno . You beauty 👏
Thank for shutting the other clown with sheer facts . Man actually said ' he only had 50 goals' 🤦
Messi is simply the best, why would they give the award to someone else?
because in my opinion, Barca would have won La Liga without him. Facts are that Barca didnt win the UCL(lost to Liverpool), didnt win the cup and Argentina didnt win the Copa(Messi scored 1 penalty and had 0 assists).
on the other hand, facts that Van Dijk was part of the UCL winners who ended their season with the 2nd highest amount of points out of all the teams in Europe(10 more than Barca).
also in 20 years when if ill tell my kids about the 18/19 stats it wouldnt be about Messi's goals, it would be about Van Dijk not letting anyone get past him the entire season. so even in individual stats Van Dijk deserves it more than anyone else
@@bsman321 Judging purely on stats is idiotic, who won what, who would've won what without whom. And you know what, I'm not gonna tell my kids kids about 18/19 stats, I'll show them videos of Messi playing in 18-19, that'll surely make bring them joy and enrich their horizon about what football really means and how it should be played. It's one thing to read three statistics at the end of a game, and another to watch 90 minutes of football. You do that and come back telling me who performed better in 18-19, Messi or Van Dijk.
@@alluzzmystique1601 It's not about Messi being a forward. It's about Messi being Messi. No amount of skillful defensive play could compete with what Messi has done that year on an individual level.
@@alluzzmystique1601 The best version of a defender is nowhere near a normal version of Messi, let alone 2019 Messi. It's unfair, but that's how it goes when you play in the same generation as such a footballer.
I always thought Mark Ogden was a clown but wow
Lol how he spews bs with a serious face is mind blowing 🤣🤦♂️
@@gagzman1 🤣🤣yeah Mark really didn't fancy Messi winning it, he was talking absolute garbage, I showed the part where Mark was talking to my friends and they were laughing their heads of with tears on there eyes🤣🤣, som people would would say incredibly Idiological things just for the sake that they didn't want something to happen.
You can tell he only watches pl
His arguments were so poor I felt embarrassed for him.
This dude has to be a prem rider, what a absolute idiot. His argument made absolutely no sense at all. 😂😂😂
06:30 dumbest thing I've heard on UA-cam 😂😂😂
mothusi basaini he’s dumb that’s all bro. 😂😂😂 he is just one of those who don’t like messi
@@prestongray3119 he reminds me of Shaka
how? it makes perfect sense, and dont get me started to the fact that he didnt even talk about messi abysmal performance in the copa america. it makes perfect sense, but at the end of the day fact is that messi and VVD deserved it more than ronaldo, now the problem is that VVD kept saying messi should win it even though deep down he wanted to win it, he paid too much respect to messi and that is why messi won it and it reflects in the voting, only 7 points difference. VVD would have easily won it if he acyed like robben or griezemann when they were nominated for it respectively when they kept lamenting on why they should win it. im a ronaldo fan but, ronaldo didnt deserve it
@@donald4364 did you hear what he said,forget about who won the balloon dor he practically said Messi had an average season,Messi was surrounded by shitty players for club and country,and look where he took Barcelona he won them the league and took the to ucl semi final,Virgil also deserved it but I believe the players that surrounded him for club and country where also brilliant which then worked against him
mothusi basaini he did not say average he actually used the word “good” don’t put words in his mouth, there is a huge difference between “average” and “good”
Messi almost had a great year ? This guy looks dead inside
“Only 50 goals” and highest number of assists... can you hear yourselves!
Hey Marc Ogden. It goes to the best player not the most improved player. Ale killed it!
Ale Moreno baby!!! Gettin Spicy! I love this dood!
Lonn Phillips best pundit on ESPN!
Love Moreno,He makes the most sense...everytime!
Agreed
Moses McCree salty
I imagined any other player having the exact year messi had. The goals, assists and incredible freekicks. He would've been voted best without any questions. How is Mahrez even number 10.
yes, lets say if you had a young 20 yo who played 43 games and scored 39 goals and had 17 assists but wasnt Messi you would have given him the title?
Ronaldo had a similar season in 2018 to what Messi had in 2019 and Ronaldo still lost out to Modric! So your argument is wrong
@@invictussupremus5832 they are biased twards the wc im a messi fan but i think modric didnt deserve it in rm he preformed soo poorly and the only highlight was the world cup which is only 7 games in that case origi should win it
8:19 This mark guy is lost..."is it awarded to the best player of the year or the most outstanding player of the year"...isn't the best player the most outstanding player himself....SMH
Lol that’s not what he said, he asked is it the best player on the planet or the best player of that year
His point was what if the best player in the world had below avg stat like ronaldo has this season( btw ronaldo is not the best).
@@FullBody How can you be the best on the planet if you weren't the best that year???? Cmon bro.
@@eddiecastaneda8918
Best player on the planet is defined by a fluid time frame.
Best player of the year is defined by a specific calendar year time frame.
Makes no sense. He is simply the best and he deserves it. Best player ever-Messi
Not even top 3 all time.
Michael Trumph VVD isn’t even top 5 best defenders all time...
@@michaeltrumph121 cry harder 😭 😭😭 😭😭 😭
So what do you expect VVD to do in order to win the Ballon’dor? Score 50 goals a season? The ballon’dor is a joke, only for attackers.
@@jvfvdjddvdbfjxj7720 tell me what VVD did more than Vidic did in 2008?
9:36 "Well, you are great, but not greater than yourself"
Haha its funnt and sad the guy is competing with himself
"He didn't win the UCL" Mark just doesn't get it, does he? It is an individual award.
Ville Jokela well another argument could be it’s the only competition both play in so it’s only one where you can compare performances.
Ville Jokela and I bet if Messi did win the UCL you’d wouldn’t be saying that dumass
@@andrewbello9784 ur dumb. If messi won the cl and wasnt top scorer ucl and at let say 25 goals this season then he shouldnt have won it. Its an individual award
Then why did Modric won it?
@@invictussupremus5832 bias from the World Cup. That one competition messed everything up for Ronaldo and Messi. You don't just go from being named best in the world to not even top 30. Just shows how messed up up that award is
did Mark Ogden really say the Ballon d'Or is to be given to the most improved player hahahahaha
ryan manyemba woooow hahahahaha may be thats why ooh am dieing
VVD had an amazing year but Messi as a foward put up unbelievable stats compared to any other foward. As a defender VVD wasn’t as good as Messi as a foward imo
i wish more people saw this comment
I mostly agree but Messi is always going to look better bc he scores goals. I mean VVD wasn’t dribbled past in the UCL or the Prem that’s with playing 2 games against Messi. But Messi and VVD are both incredible players.
Are u expecting a CB to outscored every one before you know that he has done his work
Worla Akplor not at all but its easy to see who carried his team more
@@krys8494 u guys agree on modric winning it last year saying he is a CMF and goals shouldn't be use but this season u all turn around saying Messi has more goals and assist than vvd, unbelievable
Ale Moreno is a Living Legend !
He is a debate master. Congrats to him.
Lol..not a pundit..a Messi fan boy..
@Greek Paian2zeus and Stevie is a vvd d***rider
Ale Moreno schooled those english fools.... The fact dat messi does it Every year doesn't mean i should use it against him
When you smoke low quality weed + drink + drug all at once at 6:30
Bala Prasanna moonshine and petrol and meth and banana peel
straight comedy. this clown should get an award for keeping a straight face while saying this non sense hahahah
Dude at 6:30 can’t even comprehend his sentence. I can’t even see his teeth.
Ale's got it!! A good year for Messi is a CAREER for anybody
The level of idiocy of that fella talking about the "good" year of Messi is unbereable
@Unruly Rebel but is not Virgil's fault either, because he had a great year too, but I can't believe that he can't see that he is using Messi against Messi, or worse two finals that even lost, Messi was far from playing bad and best from his team and among the best from both teams involved...he is actually saying a good point about no clear rules, but on the other hand is an almost not written rules from last years that if Messi is not winning a treble, he doesn't deserve it, nor apparently having a more than great year...last season CLEARLY it was way MORE than just a great year...if he had won the treble having awuful two finals aparrently he deserved it a lot more and would automatically he would have enjoyed an exceptional season
Learn to read and spell first
@@dliteent.6554 yeap my fault, that was some bad spelled and badly written rant...and I guess I've failed to make a clear point...but I still think is idiotic to not see how a formidable year messi had, without even talking about Virgil or any other player.
Love Ale's explosion!
representin!!
Messi was the best this year and deal with it
Dude, he was the best even under Valverde so...
What is wrong with these people
Let's think of it this way:
Liverpool vs Barcelona, CL 2019.
Both matches are played 10 v 10:
- Liverpool plays without Virgil
- Barcelona plays without Leo
Is there any doubt that Liverpool would have crushed Barcelona (both in terms of quality AND result) in both games?
Liverpool would easily win.
I mean in the 1st leg, Liverpool had their best team. They were by far the better team but 1 brilliant moment from Alba/Suarez put Barca ahead. It would also be their last moment.
After that Liverpool created the biggest chances to score and pressed Barca, but then one little man made it 2-0 and then that same guy smashed in an incredible free kick to make it 3-0 and also gave chances for the 4-0 to his teammates. Liverpool were by far the better team, yet lost 3-0 because of some luck for Barca and some individual brilliance, mostly by Messi.
Now the 2nd leg. Liverpool missed so many important players (Naby Keita, Mohamed Salah, Roberto Firmino and Robertson who got injured in the 1st half). Liverpool weren't even playing as good as they did in the Camp Nou, while Barca actually played better than they did at Camp Nou, yet Liverpool took the lead after an error by Alba.
Then, Messi creates 3 1v1 chances for Coutinho, Alba and Suárez. All of them miss. Then Wijnaldum scores 2 goals inside 3 minutes while Barca's defense are sleeping and that same defense sleep when Trent takes a quick corner.
This tell you everything. When Liverpool played with their best squad, the were better than Barca yet lost 3-0, mainly because of Messi.
When Liverpool played without their best players on the pitch, they still found a way to beat Barca 4-0.
This shows you the difference. If Messi does not score for Barca, it's game over for them. Meanwhile Liverpool could miss 2 of their best attackers and the best leftback in the world (at the moment), yet still win 4-0 against that Barca side.
VVD was incredible, but you simply can not deny nor understate the importance of Messi for Barcelona and the reliance of Barca on Messi. He is DIRECTLY involved in 75% of the goals they score. And at the same time he leads the goals/assists/dribbles/chances created statistics when it comes to ALL PLAYERS as well.
He is simply on another level.
yes.. because Barca is absolutely trash without Messi
Lol you just killed them. No way they gonna answer this. BigFACT
Amen
EA Xposed Quality, reasoned comments here and elsewhere over this vid. Top to bottom could not agree more. Cheers.
Big ronaldo fan here👍🏻 van djyk had a great season and was Liverpool’s most important players in getting them where they did this years, he had a fantastic season and I can see why people think he deserved to win the ballon d’or, but cmon of course Messi deserved it he’s been amazing all year😂
If Barcelona won the champions league there would be no debate. Barcelona spent almost 300mill on 2 players coutinhio and dembelle and Expected big things. Barcelona have more super stars than Liverpool.
realnesx what’s your point bro
Only because Messi scores goals and vvd keeps them out
billy bob Messi does a whole lot more than score goals but yeah do they do tend to favor attackers for these awards, and honestly I wouldn’t of complained wether it went to Messi, van djyk or even Ronaldo
This man said where was Messi in the second leg but where was van dijk in the first leg 🤔
Valverde fuck.d up..2 and leg..@3-0..don't need to score..
Who went through??
Ronaldo also single handedly destroy atletico.
@@rbar6501 "single handedly" 😂 bro the man got fed 3 goals!! props to him for finishing, not trying to discredit him, it was an awesome game but dont play bro, hes one of the best goalscorers of all time but he didnt "single handedly" beat atletico
They're actually saying the same thing. But one side translates "Outstanding" as a self-comparison, while the other side translates it as an overall comparison.
Virgil Van Dijk exceeded Virgil Van Dijk's standards more than Messi exceeded Messi's standard. But Messi's standard is higher than Van Dijk's standard. For example, let's say Van Dijk's normal level is 7. This past year he preformed at 9, far exceeding his own standard. Messi's normal level is 10, and he preformed at 10, not exceeding his own standard, but still outperforming Van Dijk.
So yes, if the prize is about exceeded one's own normal standard, Van Dijk should have won. But if it's about who preformed the highest, it's always going to be Messi
*Only and only Alejandro makes sense on this show*
actually true
Yep. Only him. Sometimes Stevie when he's not talking about Liverpool, because when anything involves liverpool then he is biased
💯
I keep saying it the Ballon d'Or should have a category for each position on the field. There is no way to measure a defenders impact vs a Strikers directly against each other its two completely different games.
However in saying that who is more worthy of the Ballon d'Or? Messi, hes the best player in the world right now for one. But lets measure this on impact alone, if Liverpool didn't have Van Dijk would they have won the champions league? Possibly not? But then again he didn't exactly do much when they lost 3-0 away did they? However if Barcelonas current side didn't have Messi they would be fucked right now period. Messi is more important for his team than Van Dijk is to Liverpool, Van Dijk has the luxary of an amazing team behind him, whilst Messi has an aging Barca side to carry.
Now you can argue but Messi has won it 5 times, Yeah and? The amount of times he has won the award is irrelevent, does he deserve the award? Exactly.
someone will read this and still argue.. you are spot on
Spot on bro spot on! I have to screenshot this comment 😂
Impact you have for your team isn’t everything. Messi could play in this Liverpool team and still win the Balon D’or if he scored 100 goals in a year even if Salah and Mane each scored 75, making Messi’s 100 unimportant. Virgil went an entire season without getting dribbled past. That’s the best individual season that a defender has ever had
VVD did more in that 3-0 loss than Messi did in the 4-0 loss
ThatGokuRoleplayer Both players deserved it imo. Van Dijk contributed to 20 clean sheets in PL, had 97 points only losing once, EPL player of the year, won the Champions League, reached the Nations League Final & was NEVER dribbled the whole season. He was arguably the best player in the best European team. He’s revitalized Liverpool & Netherlands. It’s actually a reasonable argument looking at it.
7:20 this is very sad that people actually hold messi’s standards against him. plus, this year was a very special year for messi with 50+ goals, la liga title, and carrying barca on his shoulders to a ucl semi final. he is the god on the game and deserves to win this award every year its up for grabs
@Liberty or Death But before that didnt Messi smash 2 goals past them? Where was Van Dijk then?
@@sirswearsalot1813 When it really counted VVD beat HIM. Messi did nothing to him. Virgil van dijk pocketed Messi.
Sir SwearsAlot thank u
Moses McCree i think either couldve won it bc messi was brilliant this year and virgil was brilliant as well. im a barca fan so i watch messi week in week out but i should probably watch more of virgil
@Liberty or Death and so?
6:30 this man don't watch Barcelona matches weekly surely.
In the champions league semi final Messi laid 3 one on one vs the keeper for alba, Suarez and someone else
Dembele bro and he fluffed it...
Exactly. Goes along with that pathetic "hasn't won the WC," argument, it's so elementary. If Higuain, etc... scores, suddenly Messi would've been the best? What matters are the stats. Messi dribbles, creates, assists, scores, better than anyone, every year, for the last decade.
Imagine thinking Messi had good/ok year and then thinking TAA had a great year
He's a typical premier league elitist wanker
Yes TAA is champions of Europe and that corner made messi looks like 5 years old boy
TAA had 12 assists as a fullback, how is that not a great year?
@THE HUMANIST not last season baby Trent had the biggest one 😘
Barca TV Corner taken quickly...
Mark said Messi didn't have a great year even though Messi scored over 50 goals🤷♂️🤷♂️
You mean even though he scored more goals than anybody 😂
Phil Jones should win Ballon D'or bruh
@@hazimmuzhaffarsuherman4372 Phil Jones is trash. Mustafi is the one who deserves the balon dor.
Is Mark Ogden even a journalist? Doesn't he look more of a fisherman on a Sunday market?
Nobody knows you but we all know Mark ogden hope you are OK now.
@@desmonddessy4614 oh you too at the same Sunday market then. Say hi to the rest of your fellow fishermen.🐟🐠🐡
6:30 does this guy know what hes talking about
He has absolutely no idea what he's talking about.
reminds me what Calpello said..earlier" Ronaldo hasn't dribbled a defender in 3 yrs"..
marius rusu except he did lol
@@Charlie_Nice tell taht to F Capello he knows him well
When we take both legs it's be a 4:3 for liverpool, messi scores twice and create 10 chances.
where is the logic vvd was better than him in this 2 legs?
Chocker. Pecho frio. No leadership qualities. Puking in the locker room during half time. Quits the NT because he missed a penalty kick. That's Lionel "The ripper of Leganes" Messi. A mentally weak guy who can't performe away from home unless he is sorrounded by equaly world class players and the oponent isn't Getafe
One goal was a great free kick you can't blame Virgil for that and the second goal was a tap in that came of the bar and fell to Messi's feet, so what are you on about.
In the second leg he had no free kick and didn't get a lucky tap in, so Messi went missing at Anfield.
It's unfair to compare goals and assists stats of attackers and defenders.
@@Pamastrike
So tell me a big club messi didn't score against.
I am waiting
Gary exactly most of the game Leo was isolated with the ball past Liverpool’s half with no help. He was making runs all alone most of the time trying to create something, but it’s imposible to do a 1v4 everytime
@@realnesx
Its 3:0 last min 3 player surrounded messi and he shows vision and finds dembele,he goes one on one and fail.
So why u blame messi for that ? And why you blame messi to get 4 goals in the second leg, is he a defender ?
2 goals and 10 chance create in 2 games this means he is better than him because he do his job and vvd nearly failed when they get so 3 goals as a defender
Messi was the best player of the year - end of discussion.
8:20 Man this dude is on drugs for sure
Cristiano ronaldo sister and his fans are clowns. Van dijk was just joking. Strange people
El Dio not always the right time for those kinds of jokes bruh
Sure van dijk was joking but you have people who love to instigate trouble
Bro, he wasn't joking, these guys just got the meaning wrong. Was he a rival? He actually meant, I admire ronaldo so it isn't exactly a rivalry!!
El Dio oh yeah but if it was messi, his asslickers will show no remorse AT ALL
ronaldo better than messi
Somebody explain to me how Ronaldo is ahead of Sadio. I’ll wait.
Disclaimer: I fucking hate Liverpool.
I love Ronaldo but this is shocking.
@@inferno7156 Because of being the MVP of Serie A
Fernando Pizarro Villagarcía didn’t deserve mvp of serie a
Malone cuz mafia of Italy aka)Cr7 mom)😂😂😂😂
Don’t want to play the race card. But they never market towards western African players. Mane isn’t as marketable so the journalist just vote for the most popular player. Unfortunately
Criteria: best player
There is only one best player. Messi.
You speaks sence. It's a crime that Leo won it after 4 years. By far best player of the planet
Alejandro Moreno👍👍👍I'm with you...
Never have Mark on again lol
Lol please
fr tho he only ever talks rubbish
Meanwhile I’m just mad Ronaldo somehow got more votes than Mané
Hahahahah
You have a point
Mane should of had more votes than VVD...
Yesterday juls made a brilliant point:
Van dijk made Liverpool better but Messi carried Barcelona.
These pundits are just jealous seeing a player that they could not dream to be in their life
Imagine if mane had 51 goals and 19 assists last season. will they still say that he had a good but not a great year?
Also let's be honest if vvd wasn't at pool or and epl he wouldn't have gotten near the ballon dor
amari ebbin Same could be said if Messi played in any other team in Spain not called Madrid or Barca
Ty Txnnick who was talking about him?
Same for chucky Lozano ... if he played for Barca or Madrid he would have had 2 ballon d or at minimum
Toribio Romo not really. Anyone who scores 51 goals and 20 assists in a season where he pretty much IS the attack deserves it regardless of what team they play for ( in a decent league at least)
If he played for Barcelona or Real Madrid he would of win it
Switch Messi and Van Dijk and Liverpool beat Barcelona 7-0 on aggregate
Facts
Not a fair comparison lol but Messi had a better year than vvd
Exactly
Fun fact: Messi was the best player of the competition won by VVD. 5x MOTM VS VVD's 1x
Hamilton Júlio César that’s true.. Messi got robbed
I think you should quit smoking 6:30 😂 😂 lol
Forget This I Want To Know How Ronaldo Won Serie A MVP & Best Striker When He Only Started Playing Well Halfway Through The Season 😂
If you dont think he wasnt the best last season you are joke..If its abt the 2019 calendar year, I get you
While Messi plays for only one club 👁👁
@@msfantastico4139 your remark is irrelevant
@@msfantastico4139 *carrying the team
6:20 This guy is a troll
He's competing with himself nobody else .
Messi is just amazing ❤❤
Ale is probably the only one with some sense out of the whole panel☠
Who is Mark Ogden btw? Smh
an idiot?lol
@@TheMypurpleflower4u 😆
You do great one season, you're good.
You do great every season, you're Lionel Messi.
It's only in the club football
Yeah I'm talking about season
That little boy in 6:30 is a van dijk fan n Christiano ronaldo fan 😂😂😂😂
If messi scores 91 goals in first year and 80 goals in second year, mark Ogden will say ask did messi really have an outstanding year
Wow that guy is a complete joke
How can u tell messi with 54 goals is not the best of the last season..
The defender can’t score 54 goals. If u were comparing him against another goalscorer or even a midfielder then fine but dats y it’s impossible for a defender to win the ballon d’or because there’s no comparable stats for a defender.
did Messi make 150 tackles?
So what do you expect VVD to do in order to win the Ballon’dor? Score 50 goals a season? The ballon’dor is a joke, only for attackers.
@@YoogiNation the point is that argument goes both ways...if VVD can't be compared to messi because he is a defender then people should have no problem if someone considers messi the best player because of his consistent performances
Riyad Mahrez lead his national team, Algeria, to the Africa cup of Nations. And his performance was superb! Mahrez definitely deserved to be placed above Benzema. Benzema ddnt have the better season.
8:53 "It is easy to give it to Ronaldo and Messi every year" Why does this guy keep bringing Ronaldo up? Clearly not watching or even following Ronaldo for the past few years.
That Ogden dude is actually brain dead. Messi had a good year, but was he the outstanding performer???? Dude. If anyone else had 1 season like Messi has had for a decade, they’d win the balon dor. Pls fire that dude ASAP
6:16 this guy doesn't know about football he is just a van dijk fan boy i think he living under the rock for many year
he is just a premier league fanboy. a league which forget to win in the champions for god knows how long. and suddenly they won it and now they dont know what to do with it. thats why its either someone from liverpool or not
Am so happy to see someone defending the greatness of messi,some people are just either ronaldo fans or European fans and dislike seeing messi a non European or a non Ronaldo winning the world best.
That Mark guy is on something saying Virgil deserved ballon d'Or. We all know that he did NOT
Please put Frank in an old person home
dan laying some truth, that is refreshing from his usual shtick
Bruh we need more of these please
Tbh when I first clicked on this video I went straight to the comments and by the time I looked up the video was almost over