Have you fitted or travel adjusted your fork? - Please be sensible and follow guidelines from the frame manufacture as safety is really important (especially around the headtube area!)
GMBN Tech friend of me swapped out forks. First ride he broke the fork in two. Luckily without injuries.... Don’t work on things like this if you have no clue.
Yes. 180 to 200 on an old dh. 140 to 160 trance 2 with a 140 to 152 adjustment to the back. I plan to do something stupid like a 160 on a 120mm bike in the near future. Starting with 66 degree head angle.
I changed my fork from 120mm to 140mm. It felt great but the next day i discovered massive cracks in the headtube, If I rode it again I would have snapped the headtube off.
UMF Dirt Kick (16,5") and a Rock Shox Domain 302 180mm fork. I ride it so a year ago and still no sign of weakness. Of course, except on uphills, not so fun, as downwards. :)
100mm vs 180mm Before & After Numbers: Head Tube Angle - 70 to 64 degrees Bottom Bracket Height - 305mm to 327mm Wheelbase - 1119mm to 1200mm Bar Height - 1042mm to 1100mm Seat Tube Angle - 73 to 68 degrees
If you sit on this bike your fork travel will switch to less than 160mm and your head tube angle will fly out of the window. 120-140mm works only with full susp. bikes.
@@shoeonhead I never said there is no 140-160mm HT on the market. Still, if you have a 67' head tube, and solid, mountains-ready amount of SAG you will lose 4cm=2' out of your slack bike right when sitting on it. That makes your bike an XC with no slack at all 69' angle. Not to mention the case when you will hit anything with your front wheel. The same SAG in full-susp. bike will give you your regular head tube angle because rear susp. will compensate.
There's no point on using 120mm fork, that works pretty well most of the time. 130-150 would've been a better choice, you're adding to up 50% more travel, that's a lot anyway.
@@honkytonkinson9787 he was nowhere near bottomed out when hit the pedal. Even if he was, how would his bb be any lower than it would if he bottomed out a 100mm fork?
I’ve changed my stock 120mm fork to a 140mm, and it’s the sweet spot where it’s made the bike more capable downhill, without sacrificing too much in other areas.
@@VantagePoint2 it can hurt your frame generally, some frames are not designed to take that much tense on the head of frame it can simply crack in time; however + - 20mm is usually pretty ok from the stock fork made for your bike
Me too! I upgraded my fork to 140mm from 120mm stock. Made it livelier on downhills. I hesitated on choosing 150mm because it changes the HA to 65 degree.... way too much degree in difference from stock imo
@@ostankovalex1176 Complete bullshit unless its a double bracelet dh fork theres no way to have "more stress" on the frame bc the tiny tube thats the fork is supported by is the first thing to snap. And more angle is more fun.
GMBN needs to have another Presenters challenge; $1000 bike (new) and $500 to upgrade as much as they can. Not only entertaining, but this is probably what alot of new Mtn bikers would do anyhow. Buy a bike, ride it for a while, and then look to upgrade parts later
I have a similar bike and I replaced the 100mm suntour fork with a 120mm rockshox recon and it made a massive difference with no negatives from what I can tell.
Can't complain about seat tube angle if you haven't bothered to slide the saddle all the way forward to compensate! Or even tipped it back to level by the looks...
@@tripmogames absolutely agree, now that ive got a bike with Fox 40s my enduro with 180mm 36s feels flimsy and looks anorexic. difference is as clear as night and day
It's all good putting a 180mm travel fork on a bike designed for a 100mm travel fork and it was an enjoyable video to watch but the problem with doing such a conversion is that nobody is realistically going to go to that extreme, it would be nice to have a bit of a follow up video where you put a bigger fork on a bike but within what people may actually consider doing (eg: fitting a 150mm fork on a bike designed around a 120mm or 130mm)
Apart from a slack seat tube, loss of rear traction and less headtube strength on a bike tested to that size fork. So actually all you gain from flipping the stem and removing the spacers is a lower, more hunched over stance on the bike.
Seb T no I just know how geo is more important than travel. I don’t think I’d be jealous of 180 on a budget xc hard tail when I have a 150mm trail bike.
GCN and GMBN have gone downhill so fast. First video I've watched in months, and its trash. Chris Opie makes some great content now that he's free from GCN, road and MTN.
@@rupedog How hard would it have been to put both numbers on the screen and the difference? maybe a minute? Pure laziness because this video wasn't a sponsor spot.
@@DougTheSnowMan Sorry to hear that! We didn't feel this video needed stats up at the end as it's not as technical as some of our other content. We will bear this in mind for next time though.
I have a 2009 Rocky Mountain Vertex10 and put a 150mm Fork on it last year with beefy Tires and its great fun to ride even in bikeparks and kind of jumpy, i love it and was great to "revive" the old frame. Put XT and XTR 2 piston Brakes on and works good even with 160mm rotor in the back.
I love overforking. A long time ago the most fun bike I had was a random hardtail on which I put a 200mm Junior-T. I rode street with that. As crazy as it sounds, I pulled my biggest bunny-hops ever with that setup.
@@DavidMaruca_ They don't die. Also, it makes the BB higher, messing up handling. On a straight line trail, it should be brilliant. Otherwise, it's going to be a mess.
I'm suprised how rideable it remained with a nearly twice as long fork. I am planning to switch my crappy 100mm XCM fork to a 130 or 140mm one and I was afraid it could be too much but it looks like going from 100 to 130 on an XL sized frame can't hurt.
I used to ride an early 90s Mt Shasta hardtail. At one point it had a Rockshox Judy XC which probably had something like 50-80mm elastomer dampened travel. I don’t remember. It had the rubber boots on the stanchions and I recall that in the end the elastomer poured out of the lowers as a powder. Upgraded to a K2 fork in the early 2000s with 90-100mm travel or so. Probably at least 20mm or more extra travel. The difference was massive. So much more rideable. The Judy was just pathetic. Better than a rigid, but barely. Later I put on a Rockshox Dart which was 100mm and it had a couple extra spacers worth of steerer too. That fork was even more comfortable than the K2 and I could still climb just fine. But now my jaw wasn’t rattling out of my head because shocks were much better 20 years on, imagine that. Since I don’t know exactly how much travel I had originally it’s hard to say what the mm change really was. Could have been 80-100 or 63-100 or even 50-100... that original shock died 15+ years ago so it’s hard to recall. But in any case slackening the bike out and raising the front end with a change of between 20 and 50mm almost brought the bike reasonably into the 21st century. Almost. I can’t think of a downside. Of course, that bike started about as steep and short as any bike ever built so I think there was quite a bit more room for slackening than a modern xc bike. The best part honestly was every upgrade made OTB less likely. And if you’ve ridden a 90s XC bike you know that it’s almost like riding a roadie with drop bars.
Manufacturers take note. More travel adjustable forks please. (external adjust) A tuneable fork for multiple trail and frame types. Helps tune out inherent climb limitations of long travel fork and a frame transferable fork. (upgrade friendly) My rockshox revelation u turn on marin quad Tara (4,5,6inch rear) is a multi tool on wheels. Tight firm xc and plush DH. An old but versatile dog. I would choose a travel adjust fork over a fixed travel. Even if the adjustment is made once after installation...
Surprised not many comments about adding an angleset or works headset. You could slacken it more to reduce the rise of longer fork and keep the bb height and seat geometry in check
I think that it would of been a more realistic test to put a 140/150mm fork on it since 180 is a bit too extreme and people are unlikely to put that on there bike. Interesting test tho making a monster bike!
Not to mention make some adjustments to stem, seat position etc. Didn't run bigger tyres for the changed style either. This setup was doomed to fail from the start. Really annoying to watch.
I have done something similar to my old hard tail, bought back in 2010 and just recently went crazy and put a not so massive 130mm 29” fork and 29” tire on the front. Stock was 100mm 26” tire. Moved my head tube angle from 70 to 64 . The thing makes me giggle with joy especially how lofty the front is, climbing is a little wonky but I love everything else. Not much climbing on my local trails.
@@norissalajanstill have it, no issues but I will mention that my head tube has a beefy gusset so probably won’t have any issues. Still my only MTN bike too.
To echo several other comments, a 20 to 40mm upgrade to an XC frame like this is fine. In fact it will do wonders to its ride characteristics if you’re not addicted to its XC efficiencies and just want something more versatile and certainly faster descending. Lowering a 72-68 degree HA by a few degrees is a game changer. I did this to a 2006 XC 29er as a Hail Mary attempt to modernize it and it was a whole new bike afterwards. I added 40mm of travel. Went from 80 to 120mm. Calculate an increased BB height and slight decrease in “Reach” as well . To further modernize this bike, I reduced the stem by a couple cm but widened the bars. (Picture what came stock in 2006 on an XC bike.) Factoring in reach, increased HA and BB height, wheelbase , stem and bar length, gives you some variables to calculate with increased fork travel. But it’s not as daunting as it sounds. Just do it. I really see no downside if you want a more all around capable hard tail at least. I can swap between this new build and a 2018 Ragley Marley-a pretty modern geo spec and moderately “hardcore hard tail”-and it holds its own, no longer riding like a 15 year old dinosaur. As far as frame manufacturer guidelines for the head tube, my research at the time left me largely unconcerned and it’s also not my main rig, nor does it plummet into rock gardens at 25 miles an hour or clear 20 foot gaps, so zero concern there for me.
This review should continue on, please make adjustments, to mimic original geo... Lower stack height, lengthen stem ( no rise, or negative), possible angle set to offset longer fork, and if all else fails try a reverse mullet.
No one: My friends back in 2010: this video Yeah we broke as hell but were having fun. Nothing beats our POS bike and putting a 160mm fork on our bikes. We were pushing on uphill anyways
After seeing Sam pilgrim putting a downhill fork on a road bike and shredding it harder than most riders on a MTB. Which means nothing is impossible if you have the skill and balls
You just said modern day geometry, but said that that modern day bike comes with a 70’ hit angle. The same as my 1995 xc bike. I don’t think there is any such thing as modern day geometry, it should be called enduro or DH geometry (enduro being a new category of mob that never used to exist). XC bikes now are very similar to XC from 25 years ago. Enduro is a different category of bike so it is pointless comparing the two.
I've got a Chromag Stylus with a 160mm dual air Lyrik on it. The geometry change when flipping between 160mm and 130mm of travel is the only real difference I notice, since it's genuinely hard to bottom out the fork on a hardtail if you land correctly even with extra sag and in the 130mm position. Still neat though, and the geometry change really does help uphills.
People will overfork their budget bikes. But people wont be putting 180mm lyrics on there! I'd say do it again on something more reasonable like putting a 140mm fork on there
If the front end came up, why not slam the stem? better yet run a shorter negative angle stem? I've done this with an old hardtail and have beaten times acheived on my dually. It's a blast.
I can only recall two hardtail frames that were actually designed with a 180 mm fork in mind: the Nicolai 2MXTB and the Evil Imperial, both monsters from the 26" wheel era.
This has definitely made me consider a 120-130 on my 100mm trek x-caliber now. I enjoy XC but can't say no to the steeper techy stuff and often end up feeling underbiked, this could be the answer.
Talon 3 went from 100 thing they called a fork to a 120 Manitou Marvel. Transformed it into a pretty fun ride on green and blue trails; not least because of the weight saving. Whyte T130 has just had a 2021 140 upgrade, not yet ridden but I'm hoping it'll be nice.
Isn't that a UA-cam thing? Since 1 month back i have gotten like twice as many ads per video (on all videos i watch on UA-cam, not matter which channel) compared to before that
I have a 170 yari fork on my 120/130 Marin b17. Was put on it before I bought it off a mate, rides sweet on most trails but doesn't quite have the rear suspension for roots and rocks. Apart from that it rips at bikeparks
Plus / minus 20mm i think Is ok from a safety standpoint. It depends about your frame, i wish never overfork a XC light frame over 20mm. But a robust enduro frame could be overforked more. Is common sense i think.
Thank you 🙏 @GMBN Tech for you video, it was entertaining. I especially liked the whoops with the 180. It was extreme to go for a 180 Lyric when as you say in the film a 140 would add so much without being ridiculous.
Can't you fix the seat tube angle simply by installing the saddle "incorrectly"? The saddle often can be moved at least +/- 5 mm back and forward. Your bottom is not going to know if the post is slightly further back from where you sit as long as the saddle is in correct position.
So, mullet the wheels - drop a 27.5" rear tire, and you've solved around half the geometry issues, achieves mullet status, and it's probably actually a better bike.
Ive got a gt avalanche with a 150mm marzocchi bomber z1 fork and I had to buy a new rim for front but it had to be a 26 instead of 27.5 and on the rear I've still got the 27.5. Doesn't feel to bad but I'm gonna get a better frame when I can afford it lmao
I put a 150 air on a FS bike that came with a 130 coil. The fork is lighter, longer, and more responsive. Win, win, win. It doesn’t seem to have affected the geometry in a negative way. I can still climb and I have plenty of brakes. Maybe going even bigger would cause problems but 20mm seems fine a couple years later. Can’t see any negative and it works together with the 130 rear travel just fine.
Some bikes also come longer as you go up range spec wise. My growler is this way, 120 on the base, 140 on the top model. I think as with all things, moderation is key
Years I had a Ghost Dual Slalom bike on which i fitted a 200 mm RockShox Boxxer. It indeed was not such a climber, but wasn't anyway as a Dual Slalom bike but it was a great bike to ride. After that i had a Ghost full suspension (140 mm rear) and also slapped the Boxxer up front. this bike felt really great, it is important to have sufficient suspension up front for riding safety, especially through CHALLENGING terrain. i would recommend over forking.
I just went ham on my lonely old Niner One 9 RDO putting in a 150mm Pike fork, 150mm dropper, wider wheels, and Nobby Nic tires last month. It took a weight and rolling resistance hit as far as racing goes, but the fun factor went through the roof just being able to send it everywhere. Now my enduro bike is the one that stays at home more often.
Awesome thanks for making this video! Learned alot! My gravity bike is almost identical to this canyon. I've kept the hardtail frame but have upgraded about everything else on it. Its been fun adding parts to upgrade it in ways that best suits my style. Im not just a downhiller. This video helped me on a decision on a bigger fork thanks guys!
I was always wondering whether manufacturers stating "BEWARE, 100MM ONLY, YOUR SOUL WILL PERISH" really mean that you could seriously affect your ride negatively or is it just to have their arses covered and have another reason to void warranty
I went from 100mm to 120mm on my 2020 Rockhopper. It rides amazing, the fork is adjustable to 140mm, thinking about trying it for the hell of it. I don't do much climbing at all... Thoughts?
Looks about like my Cannondale Catalyst. It went from 75mm of travel and 27mm stanchions SR Suntour to a DNM Suspension 120mm of travel and 32mm stanchions!!
I use a XC frame with 150mm rockshox 35dia travel forks, Maxxis Assegai 29x2.5 on front, dhr ii 27.5x2.4 on rear and 100 mm drop seat: it is quite cheap and works fine on descending and it works fine climbing. You can do everything: it depends from biker skills.
#AskGMBNTech Am I wrong or did you put a fork with a tapered steerer tube in a frame thats for straight steerer tubes? I am confused because I think that Doddy sad in a ask gmbn tech episode that that is't going to work (and I think that he didn't sad anything about headset cups...). I hope you can help me with that question and maybe mention it in a video (maybe I'm not the only one who has that question).
There was a Hope EC44 lower headset cup which makes it possible to use a tapered fork in a 44mm straight head tube. Incidentally it also effectively adds 10mm to the axle to crown length of the fork so that Lyrik was basically a 190mm...
I'm trying to wrap my head around how his bottom bracket being higher off the ground translated into him getting a pedal strike. when you watch it over, he leans the bike way over and clips the slope on the side of the trail. All i can think of is if he had that 100mm on it wouldn't be a "pedal strike" it would be a "pedal dead stop"
what i learn from this test is, build ur bike so it fits ur skill and enviroment u are riding in the most..really an old solution..buy what u need and not what is considered 'cool' ^^
I dunno, if I was gonna up my XC bike to a 180mm fork it definitely wouldn't be to improve the climbing. To me looks like a fun way to convert an old XC into a cheap and rowdy DH bike, and for a lot of people a good full suspension bike is just not affordable, as well as that most people would not have a great place to take full advantage of a real DH bike anyway and would be pushing it up the hills. So pushing a cheap 180mm travel XC bike back to the top is the small price you pay to have a bit of fun on a local trail, opening up options that were just too intimidating on a twitchy XC. I'm no expert on bike geometry and the structural integrity of the frames so correct me if I'm wrong but, I believe changing the head tube angle is gonna put relief on the frame around the headtube when absorbing heavy frontal hits because the fork is able to compress horizontally and not just vertically, so if someone is hitting heavy downhills on their XC because it's the only bike they have then it's probably going to be better for their bike as well as being safer and more fun to ride.
@@bananasstuff3344 yeah if landing to flat or casing I agree it's putting more strain on the joint at that angle, but what about the reduction in stiffness that having a longer fork allows? A short travel fork would have to be much stiffer to not bottom out so the frame would take a bigger shock from the impact than if it had a longer fork
it would have been more interesting if you took something like a Honzo or Chameleon and specced up the fork from 130mm to 150mm or 160mm - this is more likely what is happening in the "market" - making it more "down country" rather than taking an XC bike as you are arguing extremes of the spectrum
I have a adjustable fox talas 36 on my 2010 chameleon and love it! It can be set down to 120mm for climbing, then raised back to 150mm for the decent. Best of both worlds! Honestly tho, I only lower it on the real steep or technical up hill. It still climbs pretty well at 150, even with my short stem. Santa Cruz does say you can run up to 160mm, so I guess my example is less extreme..
@@rayred74 Nice! That's funny were both pretty much on the same setup. I'll never sell my chameleon! The thing is a tank, and its good at everything from trail riding, to dirt jumping, to xc. I've thought about upgrading to the new model, but I think I'll get a DH bike next and continue using the chameleon for everything else till I can afford a nice enduro bike.
You crazy? Those bikes are made to withstand 250lbs rider jumping the bike... this guy is like 150lbs soaking wet ... the 5 degree angle change won't break the bike
@@googleleavemynamealone9145 it really isnt. Because there is an angle to the fork, the contact patch is in front of the headtube and not directly under it, therefore applying torque. more angle = more torque longer fork = more torque
I put a 150mm travel and a 27.5 fork on a Giant XTC 26er bike. My front wheel is 27.5 and my rear is 26. I know this is crazy but for me it's fun. I loved it
Enjoying this channel. I picked up privately, my first off road Marin with, I guess, a stock Spinner Grind fork (100mm.) and I'm humming and hawwing about changing the fork. Though not sure it's worth it, though my LBS thought it was worth giving it a good tune-up. All this is great skinny. Thank-you!
I went from fox32 120mm to 36 150mm on my hardtail and its amazing. Your not going to break your frame. Thats rediculous. Think about it. Your rear, pivots off rear axle and any hits will be soaked up by the extra travel. Your more likely to crack your frame on smaller forks. For me the angle changes were so minute i didn't change my seat height or angle. Your hardtail can easily handle an extra 30 to 40mm. For you guys thinking about it, pull the trigger. Plus youll get higher bottom bracket. On full suspension that might be a different story
I run a chromag stylus mullet (27.5 front 26 rear) with a 180 mm fork on it and it's a real gem. Throw two tokens in for flow and jump trails. Run one token for real choppy bits. Handles downhill trails like a monster. But its definitely a fire road climber.
Have you fitted or travel adjusted your fork? - Please be sensible and follow guidelines from the frame manufacture as safety is really important (especially around the headtube area!)
GMBN Tech friend of me swapped out forks. First ride he broke the fork in two. Luckily without injuries....
Don’t work on things like this if you have no clue.
Yes. 180 to 200 on an old dh. 140 to 160 trance 2 with a 140 to 152 adjustment to the back. I plan to do something stupid like a 160 on a 120mm bike in the near future. Starting with 66 degree head angle.
@@kyleslater5245 I have a 160 on a 120 too
I changed my fork from 120mm to 140mm. It felt great but the next day i discovered massive cracks in the headtube, If I rode it again I would have snapped the headtube off.
UMF Dirt Kick (16,5") and a Rock Shox Domain 302 180mm fork.
I ride it so a year ago and still no sign of weakness. Of course, except on uphills, not so fun, as downwards. :)
As Sam pilgrim would say "it's the dream"
"welllll goood!"
to the sky
Thats mega
And here we go
@sampilgrim
didnt really convince me that it is a bad idea. sounds pretty fun
180 on a 100 frame is undoubtedly a bad idea, but something like a 140mm works really well on most 100m xc frames and makes for a super fun ride.
I look forward to seeing your Steerer tube shear on next weeks Friday Fails.
RaggleFraggle! Haha
Same
Look in the description
100mm vs 180mm Before & After Numbers:
Head Tube Angle - 70 to 64 degrees
Bottom Bracket Height - 305mm to 327mm
Wheelbase - 1119mm to 1200mm
Bar Height - 1042mm to 1100mm
Seat Tube Angle - 73 to 68 degrees
Sounds like advantages to me
@@rcdaily8754 Not for climbing.
LMAO that actually doesn't even look that weird... however I think they should have started with a 120-140mm travel bike.
If you sit on this bike your fork travel will switch to less than 160mm and your head tube angle will fly out of the window. 120-140mm works only with full susp. bikes.
MrKansai1 teghe false, there’s plenty of 140-160 hardtails out there. The Honzo ESD and the Ragley MMMBOP and the commensal meta HT AM come to mind.
@@shoeonhead I disaree this is exactly the Bike many many people have and then Ask If a 180mm fork fits
@@shoeonhead I never said there is no 140-160mm HT on the market. Still, if you have a 67' head tube, and solid, mountains-ready amount of SAG you will lose 4cm=2' out of your slack bike right when sitting on it. That makes your bike an XC with no slack at all 69' angle. Not to mention the case when you will hit anything with your front wheel. The same SAG in full-susp. bike will give you your regular head tube angle because rear susp. will compensate.
There's no point on using 120mm fork, that works pretty well most of the time. 130-150 would've been a better choice, you're adding to up 50% more travel, that's a lot anyway.
10:15
So you hit your pedal because your BB was higher?
What?
Because he bottomed out
@@honkytonkinson9787 he was nowhere near bottomed out when hit the pedal.
Even if he was, how would his bb be any lower than it would if he bottomed out a 100mm fork?
Jimskateuk I guess that makes him a liar and me an idiot
@@honkytonkinson9787 just looked like a general mistake, pedaling when he shouldnt be, didnt appear to have anything to do with the fork lol
XC guys lol.
Rule of thumb overforking 20-40mm depending on the base platform and additional mods, is fine. But obviously jumping 80mm is testing an edge case.
I know a guy who got a Boxxer on a short travel Specialized trail bike that used the bike for XC rides.
I’ve changed my stock 120mm fork to a 140mm, and it’s the sweet spot where it’s made the bike more capable downhill, without sacrificing too much in other areas.
twinnedsuns Treks website says I can’t put anything more than a 120mm on my Roscoe. Is this BS? Would a 130 or 140 hurt it?
@@VantagePoint2 it can hurt your frame generally, some frames are not designed to take that much tense on the head of frame
it can simply crack in time; however + - 20mm is usually pretty ok from the stock fork made for your bike
Me too! I upgraded my fork to 140mm from 120mm stock. Made it livelier on downhills. I hesitated on choosing 150mm because it changes the HA to 65 degree.... way too much degree in difference from stock imo
Ksea Spotting You’d likely void your warranty.
@@ostankovalex1176 Complete bullshit unless its a double bracelet dh fork theres no way to have "more stress" on the frame bc the tiny tube thats the fork is supported by is the first thing to snap. And more angle is more fun.
GMBN needs to have another Presenters challenge; $1000 bike (new) and $500 to upgrade as much as they can. Not only entertaining, but this is probably what alot of new Mtn bikers would do anyhow. Buy a bike, ride it for a while, and then look to upgrade parts later
I have a similar bike and I replaced the 100mm suntour fork with a 120mm rockshox recon and it made a massive difference with no negatives from what I can tell.
Can't complain about seat tube angle if you haven't bothered to slide the saddle all the way forward to compensate! Or even tipped it back to level by the looks...
Would massively shorten the reach doing that!🙄
Rupert Wenn reach is the distance from bottom bracket to stem and has nothing to do with seat position 🙄
Exactly mate. Look how slanted back the seat tube angle is of many full-sus bikes.
@@rupedog So the move is to over-fork an xc-bike thats a few sizes too big then, no?
Bradley Burns The STA steepens as the suspension sags.
Better title would be:
WE PUT 180MM FORK ON XC HARDTAIL SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO
bro I want too
Bro, now i have to
Got it so need to go greater than a 180mm.
do a DH fork!!!
Have a look at pilgrims channel for that kinda steeze fella. Boxxers on a drop handle an he sends it!!
This is basically dh only 20 more mm needed
@@smashyrashy a 180 single crown isn't even close how a double crown feels....
my 2nd hand giant xtc cross country bike came with a dual crown downhill fork on it lol
@@tripmogames absolutely agree, now that ive got a bike with Fox 40s my enduro with 180mm 36s feels flimsy and looks anorexic. difference is as clear as night and day
GMBN: This is a No-Go
Sam Pilgrim: Hold my Mon-ey
100mm travel fork on a full enduro bike video next please @gmbn 🤣🤟
It's all good putting a 180mm travel fork on a bike designed for a 100mm travel fork and it was an enjoyable video to watch but the problem with doing such a conversion is that nobody is realistically going to go to that extreme, it would be nice to have a bit of a follow up video where you put a bigger fork on a bike but within what people may actually consider doing (eg: fitting a 150mm fork on a bike designed around a 120mm or 130mm)
lose the spacers under the stem and flip it for negative rise and you'll lose nearly all the negatives of the bar height increase.
Yea
Apart from a slack seat tube, loss of rear traction and less headtube strength on a bike tested to that size fork. So actually all you gain from flipping the stem and removing the spacers is a lower, more hunched over stance on the bike.
@@stanp2281 Sounds like someones jealous of all that 180mm lol
Seb T no I just know how geo is more important than travel. I don’t think I’d be jealous of 180 on a budget xc hard tail when I have a 150mm trail bike.
But that would take away the negative bias and lack of perspective that they were after...silly Mike.
I beef up my headset to put a 120mm fork on my On One Scandal 100mm geometry. So far it's been 10 years and the bike still holds.
wtf you wont put the numbers all toghther so we can compare them?
Bad editing!
GCN and GMBN have gone downhill so fast. First video I've watched in months, and its trash. Chris Opie makes some great content now that he's free from GCN, road and MTN.
Not much to remember!!
@@rupedog How hard would it have been to put both numbers on the screen and the difference? maybe a minute? Pure laziness because this video wasn't a sponsor spot.
@@DougTheSnowMan Sorry to hear that! We didn't feel this video needed stats up at the end as it's not as technical as some of our other content. We will bear this in mind for next time though.
I have a 2009 Rocky Mountain Vertex10 and put a 150mm Fork on it last year with beefy Tires and its great fun to ride even in bikeparks and kind of jumpy, i love it and was great to "revive" the old frame. Put XT and XTR 2 piston Brakes on and works good even with 160mm rotor in the back.
I love overforking. A long time ago the most fun bike I had was a random hardtail on which I put a 200mm Junior-T. I rode street with that. As crazy as it sounds, I pulled my biggest bunny-hops ever with that setup.
*laughs in fox 40 on hardtail*
: 0
Dirt jump + downhill fork is a great combination
Someone needs to a 250mm rear shock on a bike with no fork
GMBN did a video a bit like this (not 250mm though) 👉 gmbn.eu/hardnose
I put a 160mm rock shox 35 gold rl on my trek roscoe and absolutely love it
Did you notice any affect on the climbing or handling? I have a Roscoe too and thinking on doing the same
This looks like wicked fun honestly. I might do 160 than 180, but still. My fork is 120 stock.
I'm currently switching from my bikes stock 120 to a 160, should make it alot more fun
Berserker Nick let me know how it feels? I’m waiting till this fork dies before I replace it I think. It’s a Rockshox Reba.
@@DavidMaruca_ They don't die. Also, it makes the BB higher, messing up handling. On a straight line trail, it should be brilliant. Otherwise, it's going to be a mess.
Don’t go more than 20mm over stock length. Axle to crown is the real thing to check though.
I'm suprised how rideable it remained with a nearly twice as long fork. I am planning to switch my crappy 100mm XCM fork to a 130 or 140mm one and I was afraid it could be too much but it looks like going from 100 to 130 on an XL sized frame can't hurt.
This is the video I was waiting for when I was starting mountain biking 😘😂🤙. Thanks GMBN Tech 🤙🤙🤙
I used to ride an early 90s Mt Shasta hardtail. At one point it had a Rockshox Judy XC which probably had something like 50-80mm elastomer dampened travel. I don’t remember. It had the rubber boots on the stanchions and I recall that in the end the elastomer poured out of the lowers as a powder. Upgraded to a K2 fork in the early 2000s with 90-100mm travel or so. Probably at least 20mm or more extra travel. The difference was massive. So much more rideable. The Judy was just pathetic. Better than a rigid, but barely. Later I put on a Rockshox Dart which was 100mm and it had a couple extra spacers worth of steerer too. That fork was even more comfortable than the K2 and I could still climb just fine. But now my jaw wasn’t rattling out of my head because shocks were much better 20 years on, imagine that. Since I don’t know exactly how much travel I had originally it’s hard to say what the mm change really was. Could have been 80-100 or 63-100 or even 50-100... that original shock died 15+ years ago so it’s hard to recall. But in any case slackening the bike out and raising the front end with a change of between 20 and 50mm almost brought the bike reasonably into the 21st century. Almost. I can’t think of a downside. Of course, that bike started about as steep and short as any bike ever built so I think there was quite a bit more room for slackening than a modern xc bike. The best part honestly was every upgrade made OTB less likely. And if you’ve ridden a 90s XC bike you know that it’s almost like riding a roadie with drop bars.
Manufacturers take note.
More travel adjustable forks please. (external adjust)
A tuneable fork for multiple trail and frame types. Helps tune out inherent climb limitations of long travel fork and a frame transferable fork. (upgrade friendly)
My rockshox revelation u turn on marin quad Tara (4,5,6inch rear) is a multi tool on wheels. Tight firm xc and plush DH. An old but versatile dog.
I would choose a travel adjust fork over a fixed travel. Even if the adjustment is made once after installation...
I have a 24" hardtail I just put a 27.5 front with some fox 38's and it is actually amazing
Surprised not many comments about adding an angleset or works headset. You could slacken it more to reduce the rise of longer fork and keep the bb height and seat geometry in check
I think that it would of been a more realistic test to put a 140/150mm fork on it since 180 is a bit too extreme and people are unlikely to put that on there bike. Interesting test tho making a monster bike!
I got a hardtail with 180mm on the front, and happy with it. :)
@Stable Genius {Jihad} my comment says 180mm, but you read and write 810mm, now what?
Or even a 120/130 would be more realistic
Not to mention make some adjustments to stem, seat position etc. Didn't run bigger tyres for the changed style either. This setup was doomed to fail from the start. Really annoying to watch.
Just ordered a 140mm fork for a 100mm Trek Marlin. I may die but it'll be fun.
I have done something similar to my old hard tail, bought back in 2010 and just recently went crazy and put a not so massive 130mm 29” fork and 29” tire on the front. Stock was 100mm 26” tire. Moved my head tube angle from 70 to 64 . The thing makes me giggle with joy especially how lofty the front is, climbing is a little wonky but I love everything else. Not much climbing on my local trails.
@@jakobbasham5907 3 years later, any frame damage? do you still have that bike?
@@norissalajanstill have it, no issues but I will mention that my head tube has a beefy gusset so probably won’t have any issues. Still my only MTN bike too.
Wait. Isn't that Neil's fork ?😂
Everybody steals Neil’s fork 😂
No I think it is one of rich’s Pole stamina!
@@twinnedsuns 🤫 They actually do! Didn't Blake took one for when he rode the Mega 🤣
@@gmbntech how many people in the GMBN HQ use a Lyrik?
To echo several other comments, a 20 to 40mm upgrade to an XC frame like this is fine. In fact it will do wonders to its ride characteristics if you’re not addicted to its XC efficiencies and just want something more versatile and certainly faster descending. Lowering a 72-68 degree HA by a few degrees is a game changer. I did this to a 2006 XC 29er as a Hail Mary attempt to modernize it and it was a whole new bike afterwards. I added 40mm of travel. Went from 80 to 120mm. Calculate an increased BB height and slight decrease in “Reach” as well . To further modernize this bike, I reduced the stem by a couple cm but widened the bars. (Picture what came stock in 2006 on an XC bike.) Factoring in reach, increased HA and BB height, wheelbase , stem and bar length, gives you some variables to calculate with increased fork travel. But it’s not as daunting as it sounds. Just do it. I really see no downside if you want a more all around capable hard tail at least. I can swap between this new build and a 2018 Ragley Marley-a pretty modern geo spec and moderately “hardcore hard tail”-and it holds its own, no longer riding like a 15 year old dinosaur. As far as frame manufacturer guidelines for the head tube, my research at the time left me largely unconcerned and it’s also not my main rig, nor does it plummet into rock gardens at 25 miles an hour or clear 20 foot gaps, so zero concern there for me.
It actually got much better
Lower the bar with flipped stem and no spacer to make it perfect
Then when you near the bottom of the travel you're essentially riding with your jaw against the tyre
@@dmrfnk Yes, like with any dh bike
@@Hunter_Bidens_Crackpipe_ with the difference that on a dh bike the rear comes down as well
This review should continue on, please make adjustments, to mimic original geo... Lower stack height, lengthen stem ( no rise, or negative), possible angle set to offset longer fork, and if all else fails try a reverse mullet.
No one:
My friends back in 2010: this video
Yeah we broke as hell but were having fun. Nothing beats our POS bike and putting a 160mm fork on our bikes. We were pushing on uphill anyways
After seeing Sam pilgrim putting a downhill fork on a road bike and shredding it harder than most riders on a MTB. Which means nothing is impossible if you have the skill and balls
You just said modern day geometry, but said that that modern day bike comes with a 70’ hit angle. The same as my 1995 xc bike. I don’t think there is any such thing as modern day geometry, it should be called enduro or DH geometry (enduro being a new category of mob that never used to exist). XC bikes now are very similar to XC from 25 years ago. Enduro is a different category of bike so it is pointless comparing the two.
bananas stuff what sort of mtb, DH enduro, trail, XC?
Nice to see a more affordable bike being used!
I've got a Chromag Stylus with a 160mm dual air Lyrik on it. The geometry change when flipping between 160mm and 130mm of travel is the only real difference I notice, since it's genuinely hard to bottom out the fork on a hardtail if you land correctly even with extra sag and in the 130mm position. Still neat though, and the geometry change really does help uphills.
People will overfork their budget bikes. But people wont be putting 180mm lyrics on there! I'd say do it again on something more reasonable like putting a 140mm fork on there
Don't over fork your bike because it'll be so fast on descents that your brakes won't stop you. What the FORK! ;-)
If the front end came up, why not slam the stem? better yet run a shorter negative angle stem? I've done this with an old hardtail and have beaten times acheived on my dually. It's a blast.
I can only recall two hardtail frames that were actually designed with a 180 mm fork in mind: the Nicolai 2MXTB and the Evil Imperial, both monsters from the 26" wheel era.
Why can't my 1 hour trail rides just be a 1 minute montage... would be so much easier for my schedule :P
This has definitely made me consider a 120-130 on my 100mm trek x-caliber now. I enjoy XC but can't say no to the steeper techy stuff and often end up feeling underbiked, this could be the answer.
This is why I'm watching! I've got a 2011 X-Cal and I'm curious what would happen. My only issue is the G2 geo and how to compensate.
I have been doing that for years with dirt jump. I'm running at the moment with 180mm up front and 140mm rear and it's really good fun
The back wheel may have had a little more traction if you put a more grippy tire on
Talon 3 went from 100 thing they called a fork to a 120 Manitou Marvel.
Transformed it into a pretty fun ride on green and blue trails; not least because of the weight saving.
Whyte T130 has just had a 2021 140 upgrade, not yet ridden but I'm hoping it'll be nice.
4 advertisements in 11 min.... to see how that changed from old videos is kinda sad
Isn't that a UA-cam thing? Since 1 month back i have gotten like twice as many ads per video (on all videos i watch on UA-cam, not matter which channel) compared to before that
I have a 170 yari fork on my 120/130 Marin b17. Was put on it before I bought it off a mate, rides sweet on most trails but doesn't quite have the rear suspension for roots and rocks. Apart from that it rips at bikeparks
Cool video Rich, Cheers👊😎 Im thinking of upgrading my forks on my HT from 100mm to 120-140mm. This vid helped
Good to hear Curtis! 🤘
Are u using a XC or a Hardtail
Plus / minus 20mm i think Is ok from a safety standpoint. It depends about your frame, i wish never overfork a XC light frame over 20mm. But a robust enduro frame could be overforked more. Is common sense i think.
Thank you 🙏 @GMBN Tech for you video, it was entertaining. I especially liked the whoops with the 180. It was extreme to go for a 180 Lyric when as you say in the film a 140 would add so much without being ridiculous.
Can't you fix the seat tube angle simply by installing the saddle "incorrectly"? The saddle often can be moved at least +/- 5 mm back and forward. Your bottom is not going to know if the post is slightly further back from where you sit as long as the saddle is in correct position.
Considering I've done way harder trails on a bike from 1999 with clincher brakes, I'm sure your budget disc brakes are more than fine!
Believe me you become an even more of a beast when you got great brakes. You gain a lot of confidence and more shredibility. 👍
Lmao I was just thinking about what would happen if I put a 120 mm in my Xc bike😂😂😂how accurate
Just yesterday i commented on askgmbn video about this, thx for answer
So, mullet the wheels - drop a 27.5" rear tire, and you've solved around half the geometry issues, achieves mullet status, and it's probably actually a better bike.
Ive got a gt avalanche with a 150mm marzocchi bomber z1 fork and I had to buy a new rim for front but it had to be a 26 instead of 27.5 and on the rear I've still got the 27.5. Doesn't feel to bad but I'm gonna get a better frame when I can afford it lmao
The hope bottom cup to fit a tapered fork made me laugh
For liability reasons we have to say, DONT DO THIS, but for awesome reasons, DO THIS, longer wheelbase, slacked it out, more travel = rad!
6:33 that noise made my day.
I put a 150 air on a FS bike that came with a 130 coil. The fork is lighter, longer, and more responsive. Win, win, win. It doesn’t seem to have affected the geometry in a negative way. I can still climb and I have plenty of brakes. Maybe going even bigger would cause problems but 20mm seems fine a couple years later. Can’t see any negative and it works together with the 130 rear travel just fine.
So what you need to add is hinged chain stays and adjustable seat stay extenders, which you drop for downhill.
Some bikes also come longer as you go up range spec wise. My growler is this way, 120 on the base, 140 on the top model. I think as with all things, moderation is key
Years I had a Ghost Dual Slalom bike on which i fitted a 200 mm RockShox Boxxer. It indeed was not such a climber, but wasn't anyway as a Dual Slalom bike but it was a great bike to ride. After that i had a Ghost full suspension (140 mm rear) and also slapped the Boxxer up front. this bike felt really great, it is important to have sufficient suspension up front for riding safety, especially through CHALLENGING terrain. i would recommend over forking.
Looks pretty rad too me. I think you actually achieved the opposite and more people might actually be over forking 80mm now lol.
I just went ham on my lonely old Niner One 9 RDO putting in a 150mm Pike fork, 150mm dropper, wider wheels, and Nobby Nic tires last month.
It took a weight and rolling resistance hit as far as racing goes, but the fun factor went through the roof just being able to send it everywhere. Now my enduro bike is the one that stays at home more often.
Awesome thanks for making this video! Learned alot! My gravity bike is almost identical to this canyon. I've kept the hardtail frame but have upgraded about everything else on it. Its been fun adding parts to upgrade it in ways that best suits my style. Im not just a downhiller. This video helped me on a decision on a bigger fork thanks guys!
I was always wondering whether manufacturers stating "BEWARE, 100MM ONLY, YOUR SOUL WILL PERISH" really mean that you could seriously affect your ride negatively or is it just to have their arses covered and have another reason to void warranty
Spend mad cash on longer travel forks to do wheelies and manuals like a pro. Makes complete sense and seems like a worthy investment. LOL.
Overforking is the worst way to increase downhill performance. Slapping on some heavy-duty downhill tires, and changing your cockpit is far better.
Non sense.. you adapt to new hardware. Don't remain the same rider.. evolve with better gear.
I went from 100mm to 120mm on my 2020 Rockhopper. It rides amazing, the fork is adjustable to 140mm, thinking about trying it for the hell of it. I don't do much climbing at all... Thoughts?
If it doesn't cost too much do do then sure!
I have 180mm fork on an old dirt jump frame and it works perfectly
maybe try putting a shortem stem like 90mm to a 60mm or 50mm and a wider bar maybe that can unlock the full potential of the bike
Looks about like my Cannondale Catalyst. It went from 75mm of travel and 27mm stanchions SR Suntour to a DNM Suspension 120mm of travel and 32mm stanchions!!
I use a XC frame with 150mm rockshox 35dia travel forks, Maxxis Assegai 29x2.5 on front, dhr ii 27.5x2.4 on rear and 100 mm drop seat: it is quite cheap and works fine on descending and it works fine climbing. You can do everything: it depends from biker skills.
You sure went extreme. Putting a 120mm would have made a much more interesting story.
#AskGMBNTech Am I wrong or did you put a fork with a tapered steerer tube in a frame thats for straight steerer tubes?
I am confused because I think that Doddy sad in a ask gmbn tech episode that that is't going to work (and I think that he didn't sad anything about headset cups...).
I hope you can help me with that question and maybe mention it in a video (maybe I'm not the only one who has that question).
Theres plenty of good straight steerer forks if you want to upgrade a cheap hardtail.
There was a Hope EC44 lower headset cup which makes it possible to use a tapered fork in a 44mm straight head tube. Incidentally it also effectively adds 10mm to the axle to crown length of the fork so that Lyrik was basically a 190mm...
@@tiaalto1 thanks👍
uhh I was wondering if added leverage may cause failure at the headtube on lighter bikes
I'm trying to wrap my head around how his bottom bracket being higher off the ground translated into him getting a pedal strike.
when you watch it over, he leans the bike way over and clips the slope on the side of the trail. All i can think of is if he had that 100mm on it wouldn't be a "pedal strike" it would be a "pedal dead stop"
I think I'm close to unsubscribe from both of their channels. Their latest videos are even worse. Content for children.
what i learn from this test is, build ur bike so it fits ur skill and enviroment u are riding in the most..really an old solution..buy what u need and not what is considered 'cool' ^^
'Holy mole' I love it.
I dunno, if I was gonna up my XC bike to a 180mm fork it definitely wouldn't be to improve the climbing. To me looks like a fun way to convert an old XC into a cheap and rowdy DH bike, and for a lot of people a good full suspension bike is just not affordable, as well as that most people would not have a great place to take full advantage of a real DH bike anyway and would be pushing it up the hills. So pushing a cheap 180mm travel XC bike back to the top is the small price you pay to have a bit of fun on a local trail, opening up options that were just too intimidating on a twitchy XC.
I'm no expert on bike geometry and the structural integrity of the frames so correct me if I'm wrong but, I believe changing the head tube angle is gonna put relief on the frame around the headtube when absorbing heavy frontal hits because the fork is able to compress horizontally and not just vertically, so if someone is hitting heavy downhills on their XC because it's the only bike they have then it's probably going to be better for their bike as well as being safer and more fun to ride.
@@bananasstuff3344 yeah if landing to flat or casing I agree it's putting more strain on the joint at that angle, but what about the reduction in stiffness that having a longer fork allows? A short travel fork would have to be much stiffer to not bottom out so the frame would take a bigger shock from the impact than if it had a longer fork
it would have been more interesting if you took something like a Honzo or Chameleon and specced up the fork from 130mm to 150mm or 160mm - this is more likely what is happening in the "market" - making it more "down country" rather than taking an XC bike as you are arguing extremes of the spectrum
Agreed, with an xc a 120 is super popular right now but very few I think are doing this(large up for kings on xc bikes I mean).
I have a adjustable fox talas 36 on my 2010 chameleon and love it! It can be set down to 120mm for climbing, then raised back to 150mm for the decent. Best of both worlds! Honestly tho, I only lower it on the real steep or technical up hill. It still climbs pretty well at 150, even with my short stem. Santa Cruz does say you can run up to 160mm, so I guess my example is less extreme..
Ian Hanson yep. I have Fox 36 150mm on my Chameleon - love it
@@rayred74 Nice! That's funny were both pretty much on the same setup. I'll never sell my chameleon! The thing is a tank, and its good at everything from trail riding, to dirt jumping, to xc. I've thought about upgrading to the new model, but I think I'll get a DH bike next and continue using the chameleon for everything else till I can afford a nice enduro bike.
Ian Hanson I have an HTLT too. Hardly ever use it as the Chameleon is so capable. Love both bikes but
Love the simplicity of the Chameleon
I’d be more concerned with the head tube breaking off of the frame with the extra leverage from the slacker angle
What? The force is still linear compression from. ... you know, the wheel travel?
The Grim Donut laughs at that as slack...
You crazy? Those bikes are made to withstand 250lbs rider jumping the bike... this guy is like 150lbs soaking wet ... the 5 degree angle change won't break the bike
@@jckdnls9292 five degrees is a huge difference, head tubes break at the weld all the time.
@@googleleavemynamealone9145 it really isnt. Because there is an angle to the fork, the contact patch is in front of the headtube and not directly under it, therefore applying torque.
more angle = more torque
longer fork = more torque
I have this bike... I have increased my 100mm travel to 130mm.. and the results.are.awesome
hear me out.....29 inch wheel on the rear, 27.5 on the front with the 180mm fork?
Overforked reverse mullet? 😂
@@TheCynabal in a way yeah lol.
oooh... that might work! Might get a bit steep at max travel but it would be interesting to see.
Understeer , not for the faint of heart
I put a 150mm travel and a 27.5 fork on a Giant XTC 26er bike. My front wheel is 27.5 and my rear is 26. I know this is crazy but for me it's fun. I loved it
Enjoying this channel. I picked up privately, my first off road Marin with, I guess, a stock Spinner Grind fork (100mm.) and I'm humming and hawwing about changing the fork. Though not sure it's worth it, though my LBS thought it was worth giving it a good tune-up. All this is great skinny. Thank-you!
I might want to convert my oldschool xc bike to a mullet. 27.5" in front, 26 on the back. Might be easier to bomb onto stairs (from below)
I went from fox32 120mm to 36 150mm on my hardtail and its amazing. Your not going to break your frame. Thats rediculous. Think about it. Your rear, pivots off rear axle and any hits will be soaked up by the extra travel. Your more likely to crack your frame on smaller forks. For me the angle changes were so minute i didn't change my seat height or angle. Your hardtail can easily handle an extra 30 to 40mm. For you guys thinking about it, pull the trigger. Plus youll get higher bottom bracket. On full suspension that might be a different story
My bone was only designed for an 80mm sus fork. I put a 120mm on it. That’s only half as bad as what you guys did so it’s alright 😬👍🏾
Over forking is a myth
People from Fork disagree!
slap boxxer on dat bad boi and shreed
Putting a 130mm fork on an xc bike will mess up a lot the geometry? (Intended use is for light trail riding, some uphill some downhills etc)
@Smashy Rashy: Overforking is a myth
Me: Immediately thinks of something ridiculous like the fork to a dirtysixer or alternately a penny farthing
I run a chromag stylus mullet (27.5 front 26 rear) with a 180 mm fork on it and it's a real gem. Throw two tokens in for flow and jump trails. Run one token for real choppy bits. Handles downhill trails like a monster. But its definitely a fire road climber.
Check out the Chromag Doctahawk 62.5 HTA hard tail 180mm travel
Done this a good few times, the seat stay angle causes tonnes of shoulder pain