What's the REAL difference between these two mountain bikes?
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- Опубліковано 14 чер 2024
- Today, we evaluate the differences between a $400 bike and a $13,000 one. The $400 bike is the Ozark Trail Ridge, which to my knowledge is the best new mountain bike you can buy for $400. The $13,000 bike is my Sage hardtail, which I built up from individual parts and spent way too much money on. Does more money (in this case 32x more money) get you more performance? How much more performance? 13x as much? 8x as much? Twice as much? Today, we’ll talk about that.
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The advantage of the 400dollar bike is that it doesn't cost 13000dollars
Yep
The thing is, you are paying 30x the price (yes, a 3,000% increase in price) for what is a fairly good difference in quality. So at best maybe a 20-30% better ride for some more comfort, and reliability. I paid less than that for my toyota camry durring covid. Diminishing returns for real.
@@austinseph1 so a $1,800 bike is the best bet. lol.
I'd rather get that 400 dollar bike AND a new engine for my RX-8 AND still have enough money for 6 months worth of gas for the RX-8. lol
"Visiting a shipwreck...?"
Wow, he really let that one sink in. Brutal.
But definitely not too soon
I wonder what boring men would find this funny.
well, the carbon failed as far as i know nut yeah
Titanium bits were the parts that survived the imposition in mint condition, everything else not so munch…
the joke is the dead billionaire should've used Titanium only, not Carbon Fibre. RIP to the 4 people he killed.
Great video. I would like to add that it is okay to be $400 interested in something. If you just want to go spin in the dirt twice a year and don't feel like trawling Craigslist, the Ozark Trails bike will suit your needs. And that's okay. You don't have to pursue every hobby like it's your life's passion.
It's insane that Walmart finally made a mountain bike that actually looks like a rideable mountain bike 😮
They didn't make it, Walmart is a retail store.
Wal mart doesnt make bikes.
Yes you're both right, I didn't even think of that haha.
They had them made to their own specification. So they made them happen.
In my country we have Decathlon a sports products retailer and they got the best mountain bikes for the money. And they do manufacture I think
The problem with owning a really expensive bike is that you can almost never turn your back on it. The minute you dismount bike security becomes your #1 issue.
Basically.
Unless you are carrying like 2 U locks, still I see a +10000$ bike like something I will never daily drive.
100%
@@moisescastillo217 I carry 4 locks when I commute on my mountain bike. My primary lock costs $350 and eats angle grinder blades.
It's not a $13000 bike, I just *really* don't want it getting stolen (plus I'm a bit of a security nerd).
... Technically if you count the individual part locks I have more than 4 locks. It's also registered on Project 529 and Bike Index.
@@GNMi79 being far away from it for sure
That shipwreck line was prime comedy. Well done sir.
👏 when is Seth going to speak about his refusal to certify his bikes before letting others ride them
You can get to a shipwreck with carbon fiber also.
That's a short waiting to be made
First
@@theymademepickaname1248lmost reaching a shipwreck* 😅
When it comes to the 13k bike, as a completionist and optimizer I feel like a huge factor is simply knowing "this is the best for me." Not "this is a good value," not "this is good enough," just the best possible solution to this specific person and use case.
Just picked up a garage sale bike to start ripping apart without worrying about having a bike to ride, looking forward to learning more about working on it!
The margin on that $13,000 bike must be ridiculous
Honda cfl300 can give more off-road capability half of the price
For the manufacturer. Bike shops get the shaft
Yes the manufacturer and wal mart are in business. By the time you get it, it costs as much as a newer car .
Nobody is getting ripped off except you!
Nahhh how is nobody talking about the ship wreck joke😂
he threw it in there so discreetly too
I wonder if it has to do with the video being out for less than 10 minutes so far
came down here looking for this comment and it came out first 😂
Lol 😂 bro just shook his head
Hahahaha
In my eyes, the $400 bike isnt the kind of bike you buy once and then ride as is. Its the kind of bike you grow to love and upgrade, knowing every bushing and bearing and all its quirky features. You upgrade it till its the bike that you are satisfied and happy with, then buy another bike as its younger sibling (maybe a fullsus) but always go back to the bike you spent so much time on. Its the entry point to riding and having fun
But it still looks like you bought it at Walmart. It’s like the ultimate sleeper bike.
@@jcorkable people also sometimes repaint it to match their style, but thats what I love about it. Its not a blank canvas, but its a good canvas to start making it your own.
@@jcorkable to bad they didn't make that ozark trail logo a decal that could be peeled off. I've seen that bike a few times at walmart though and with that flat grey paint it's a damn good looking frame. If they had an XL size I'd buy it just to use the frame.
Probably just better off buying the bike with the parts you want since the bikes you get from Walmart are more or less just intended for beater bikes you can replace when they ultimately break.
@@daexion this is assuming you had the budget to begin with. If 200 is all you have, and you need one now, it's a good platform to start upgrading. It's more economical to upgrade parts as you go along instead of buying it in one go if you can't afford the higher spec in the first place.
After intense chemo for 3 years Ive started biking again. I got a 50 dollar Mountain bike of FB marketplace. Thing is steel framed and its heavy! I love the 2 bikes paired against each other. that 400 dollar bike looks great compared to my current! great content
So why mention you had chemo? It has nothing to do with the rest of your comment.
@@hossman8499uhh it does. He got back into riding after chemo. But some people can’t help but be a blowhard.
Bikes are ridiculously expensive nowadays, I bought one for 200 euros (220 dollars) about 7 years ago. It's good for me and still looks fresh, I'm still riding it to this day with no problems.
Indeed.
These ones, expensive just for professional riders are far far worthless as our yotuber said, value vs. performance
You don't pay for the good quality, you pay for the new tech
Berm Peak Express, Thank you for all your videos. I recently got a mountain bike called "The Yonder" by Zize Bikes made for people up to 550lbs. I weigh 488 myself, and started with the bike a couple of months ago at over 500.
I haven't ridden a bicycle since I was 15, so it's been about 22 years total. Your videos really helped me make the decision to buy the bike, and get into better shape. Bikes have changed a bit since the early 2000's but your videos have helped me catch up on all the changes. You even inspired me to start recording video to do a review on the Zize for people my size. I hope to encourage others, and show them that as a bigger person we have options.
So again, thank you! and keep up with the awesome videos!
That’s amazing dude keep that work going!
Good for you :) Enjoy
Awesome, well done.
Welcome to the sport! Enjoy it.
Without meaning to be rude, but how do you mount and balance on your bike. Googled your bike, looks nice, congratulations.
That titanium joke made me spit out my drink 😂
That was a good point well made. Getting into MTB doesn't NEED to be crazy expensive.
I rode that 400.00 bike yesterday I was impressed and I bought one instead of a 1200 TREK . I had it inspected at a bike shop and upgraded the seat and I am happy.
It's like this for every hobby. I love when people call out diminishing returns. I can't stand when I start enjoying a new hobby, and people shame me for not spending 10x more money on something for a 5% gain when I'm not even certain I like the hobby yet. I don't even ride mountain bikes, but I watch every video you make because of your attitude on these kinds of things. You got me into 24 scale crawlers, and now I'm building a giant course in my back yard from upcycled stuff like pallet wood, rocks for free off craigslist etc. Keep on telling the truth. There's no shame in being a whale and spending $13k on a bike, but there's also no shame in scavenging what you can to build a thrifty downhill bike with what's left over after you buy groceries.
In agreement
my only motive is to get from point A to point B.
Free tip: stay away from clay pigeon shooting. While you may perform quite well with a cheap shotgun, bragging about owning the most expensive equipment is more often then not, the real goal of this sport. And a luxury shotgun cost several tens of thousand dollars.
Same in the Rc word
@@Neomalthusiano Pro O/U elitists are THE WORST.
All of us have items that cost way too much that we didn’t need. Life is too short to not splurge on some things. I have probably $3k invested into my bike. My bike skills say I should probably be on the $400 Walmart bike. But my bike makes me smile so oh well 😊
I 100% agree. If you buy a "grail bike" thinking it's going to make you faster, then yes you're sorely mistaken. However, splurging on things we love is part of being human.
Gluttony is a human trait, you'd feel better longer if you gave away 13 $1,000 bikes.
@@franklee6301 Your comment is spot on. If something makes you get more joy out of your ride, that's great. but I think way too many people fall into the trap of overspending in things they don't really need.
@@franklee6301Nice 💯 one ! And I'd rather be dropped or be slower than the other riders on a cheap-ish bike than on a 13K bike ..... I know my soft delicate ego wouldn't be able to take it 😊
@@BermPeakExpress I'm guilty of splurging on bikes. I do like the fact that you offer a sober appreciation for a low costing bike, that still can be fun as well as a good place to enter into mountain biking experience.
Great video! Even better advice. I did the same thing. Started on a Walmart bike (Axum), rode it for two years after upgrading it with the help of your how to videos! You're also one of the few people on YT that pronounce Sram correctly instead of saying Schram. Keep up the great work getting more people into mountain biking.
Man.... Your video quality and camera and post production is also superb. Enjoyed it thoroughly. Thank you very much for taking time to do this video. Just subscribed to your channel
I'd be happy to ride any bike at the moment. Just found out I have a heart problem and I might not be on the bike again any time soon, if ever. I'll have to ride vicariously through Seth for the time being. Wish me luck, brothers!
You offer us great perspective! Thank you.
Emtb if your doc allows it!
I’ll ride for you brother
Hope you get back in the saddle!
Thank-you to all of you for your kind thoughts. I've been getting on the stationary bike with the hope that I can build my cardiovascular capacity enough to get out on the trails again. I'll let you know if I get there. Til then, ride for me brothers!
I think Seth brings enough to the community that he should be able to own/ride any bike and not feel silly due to cost or anything. He’s more than earned the right, the honor to proudly swing a leg over that Ti master piece. I would make people uncomfortable by how much I would touch that bike and just look at it if it were mine.
Such a good channel
The amount of time I spend just starring at my bike is alarming (2021 Mach 6)!!
seth always dilivers quality content without fail !
Very in depth. As always, another epic Berm Peak video from Seth.
It’s not the cost that matters. It’s the smile at the end of the ride that matters.
"visiting a shipwreck?"
That one was so deep and the way he let it sink in really put me under pressure!
I recently upgraded my high street (Halfords in the UK) bike I got for £450 to £1,700 bike and the difference is like night and day. So much more capable and feels a lot safer on trails and in the bike parks. On the strength of this video I'm glad I didn't go much more expensive than that though, right now the bike is better than my ability, but I'll catch up. Thanks for another great piece.
Im glad you mentioned the pedals those labels are very important one time I got a bike from walmart that said left on both of them it was really confusing
The titanium survived the trip to the shipwreck....the carbon fiber on the other hand....
Man it’s a good day when Seth posts
Thanks for the recommendation on the Ozark trail, picked one up and an impressed with it. They did good on that bike.
I decided that maybe I wanted to start mountainbiking since I've sort of stopped doing my main hoppy, skydiving, so I've watch a whole bunch of your vids to try to get ahead a bit and not be completely lost. Went today with a friend to a trail he know fairly well (I didn't even know how you go..like...over root), but was good fun! I'm processing it a bit right now, but I'm sure I will keep on doing this more. So thanks for making a fun that helped actually get me out there. :)
Thank you for making these great videos. For entertaining us and teaching us some stuff. Nearly at 1million 🎉. Thanks again, you are if not my favourite UA-camr.
You should revisit that old Genesis V2100 bike that you and Alex got at Walmart years back and compare it to the Ozark Trail Ridge to make a video that someone could just show a parent or a friend who wants to get into mountain biking but is more attracted to the bells and whistles than the simple, solid bike. You could also take it a step further and maybe show why it's not worth trying to upgrade something like that.
Thanks Seth! Great video!
I started with a $900 entry level MTB and its been a blast learning how to do upgraded. Got about $1500.00 in parts in it now but a $1,000,000.00 worth of fun with my son.
The key is to buy an entry level bike that CAN be upgraded economically. Some cheap bikes use non-standard and awkward to upgrade fittings. But great video! For every activity there's a 'sweet spot' price of equipment.
That's pretty much it. Chances are that if you're buying an entry level bike you might be just starting out and find out that it's not the hobby for you, if so then the loss is minimised. If however you find out you really enjoy it and want to upgrade the bike then the loss is greater if that entry level bike can't be upgraded because you've got to buy an entirely different bike in order to progress.
@@DjDolHaus86 I tend to say similar to people who ask. I normally say buy something that can be repurposed as a commuter/shopper because either way the bike isn't going to be right for you in future!
EXACTLY. Found this out the hard way with an Amazon special. Bottom brackets, weird hubs, etc. The bike shop said those things are cheaper to replace than to fix.
The plastic ring may be more for liability reasons on a department store bike. It would be to prevent the pant leg of someone riding street pants from being sucked into the chainring, which can easily make someone crash.
Thank you so much for this video, I recently spoke with "bikers edge" on a comment thread wondering about different levels of components and their performance. This video answered everything I was pondering. Thank you so much!
Thanks for the video. I find it entertaining and useful. Much appreciated!
When I first got into MTB I laughed at the price of high end bikes and was sure that there was no way they were any more fun than a cheap one. I went from Diamondback to Kona to Santa Cruz Chameleon to Ripley AF with numerous part upgrades in between. I'm prolly in for about $8000 at this point but I don't regret the journey.
I have a Diamondback AxisTT titanium mountain bike. Have owned it since 1993, all still stock and going strong.
Really great video. It is amazing to me what can be bought new and put to use on trail for $400, upgraded as need be. Also amazing: You have such a clear, objective-minded perspective after investing so much into your dream bike. Cheers.
RIght?? Not so long ago Wal Mart was selling. 41 POUND full suspension Mongoose Mountain bikes. We actually weighed one once, when it came in for a tune up.... They have come a long way!
This was a great vid ! I just bought a Marlin 8 and this cleared up a lot ! Thanks man!
it's been a long time since we've seen micro crawler videos, you should bring it back
Although Seth’s not pregnant he always delivers
.
My Axum Dropper is fantastic at about $1,100 total cost with all the upgrades, and I could ride it right away while figuring out which parts to upgrade over time and how much to spend on them. I'm very happy with it.
Very nice! That's what I'm doing with my $124 Taff Comp. Just ordered some air forks & a Jessica headset. Next up bottom bracket & cranks.
I love my upgraded Axum too
very thorough! thank you. new to mountain biking so really loving your videos. thanks.
I totally agree! I have a $750 29” Cannondale with hydraulic disc brakes and it does very well for what I do…and I’m 60! Would a $4,000 bike give me more? Well, yeah, but not $3,250 worth of “more.” Ride safe!
Okay, Okay, Okay... Is a $13,000 bicycle better than a $13,000 motorcycle? You've shown us a price point comparison. Now we need a price bracket comparison.
Better at what? The two are vastly different in nearly every single way. The guy who bought the $13k mountain bike likely did it to compete in that field. The vast majority of people won't ever think of spending over 2k on a bike unless they're planning on making a name to themselves winning races
@@elpretender1357 i think he is asking about what you get for the money. In that regard the 13k motorcycle provides more value. Much more engineering, machined parts, production costs, etc. Similarly, a 13k car provides even more value still.
@@elpretender1357 Better at component quality, versatility, options, accessories, ergonomics, speed, power, value for the money, take your pick. The intent of the user is irrelevant.
A like for all of you! I only have a mountainbike shaped bicycle but managed to get home every single time. Feeling better?
And it only cost... zero dollars
Thanks, Seth, this is an excellent breakdown of the realities of each bike and as a now 63-year-old who spent seven wonderful years on a Schwinn Sting-Ray, the best bike a kid could have in the '60s and '70s until BMX bikes hit the market in '75, I'd say just love the bike you got and I am thankful I did that with my Sting-Ray. And when I got it for my birthday during the Summer of Love in San Francisco in '67, it was the era of kids playing outside until sundown and I still marvel at the fun and freedom that bike gave me. Like I'll never forget crossing 19th and riding around the Sunset District to the beach. Or heading downtown and riding on Mission Street. It was all big stuff for an eight-year-old with a couple of friends. And best of all was learning to zig-zag up those steep streets and then fly back down them. Not to mention the dirt trails at the top of Twin Peaks. And yeah, these days, anyone who looks at an old Schwinn Sting-Ray would probably say, well, looks sort of sporty but can't see anyone doing much on it. But we did and even the sport of BMX was started on Sting-Rays years before mountain bikes were in production. And, well, there was Evel Knievel, too, and a favorite memory is seeing him wheelie and jump like 19 cars at Ontario Motor Speedway in '71. And when you're 11, it doesn't get much cooler than that. And of course those memories become part of the fabric of our rides and good for you to build up a 13-grand bike and show everyone that even a 400-dollar bike can be a good start down the trail. And for sure, better wheels and some jumps await. 😀
I also had a Sting-Ray back in the 60’s…green with the stick shift. Loved that bike until I outgrew it. Think I bought it new for $75 and sold it several years later for $40. Your experiences growing up in SF (my favorite large city) sound wonderful. I have visited there and run those hills (like up the bricks of Lombard St on a Saturday early before traffic started). Can’t imagine how fast you got going on the way down😮
@@bethensor4680 Thanks for sharing your Sting-Ray stories, Beth, and we do have to keep them alive as nobody would ever believe otherwise that there were years of our childhoods when those 20" bikes were everything to us and they were enough because of our great imaginations and applications and expressions and just all of it. And we had all those inspirations, too, most notably fast and colorful cars and Evel Knievel and motocross stars. And in a book called No Hands, The Rise and Fall of the Schwinn Bicycle Company by two Chicago journalists with a clear eye and love for Schwinn's glory days, the authors tell the Sting-Ray origin story, that some kids in Southern California were modifying their 20" bikes into chopper-like steeds with high-rise handlebars and long Troxel bicycle polo saddles, then a Schwinn exec flew out from Chicago to check out the trend, then within a handful of months the Sting-Ray went into production with the banana seat and high-rise bars and colorful paint and lots of chrome. And it wasn't but a few years later that you and I benefited from the influence those OG cool kids had on Schwinn with all the Sting-Ray models . And truly, I had so many wild rides on mine in San Francisco, with thanks to a handful of older kids who taught me the ropes of the city when I was eight. And I'll never forget the first time we zig-zagged in a train up a steep street. It was miraculous, it was easy to get back up by doing that. And there were times after school I'd get my kicks by waiting at the top of our street on Twin Peaks for a car to start descending. I'd let it get about a third of the way down and then drop like a stone and overtake it and skid at the bottom. Then zig-zag by my lonesome back up. And all I was doing, really, was wanting to be a race car driver and it was as close as I could get to those high-speed thrills and chills. And I was serious, not a kook about it. And my Dad actually had a shingle for Chastain High-Perfrormance Engines and he spent much of the '60s as a moonlighting engine builder for SCCA competition cars, tho' his daytime job was civil engineering and construction. Yet, incredibly, he pursued big-time engine buildiing full-time in '69 and '70 in the South, building Camaro engines in '69 at Gene White Firestone in Atlanta for a young star driver named Pete Hamilton and then working in '70 at Bud Moore Engineering in Spartanburg, South Carolina, the year that famed team fielded the Factory Ford Trans-Am Mustangs. Then he happily stepped away from it all, we returned to California, and the family car became a new VW Super Beetle. But he did keep his hand in it by helping the Pettys when they ran Riverside and Ontaio and it was at Ontario in '71 that I got to see Evel Knievel ride gloriously long wheelies and successfully jump 19 cars. And that was another Sting-Ray trick for us to do, ramp-to-ramp jumps on asphalt. The days. 😀
Always encouraged to learn more after watching your videos, Seth.
Appreciate the honesty! Truth can sometimes be hard to accept, but must always be respected. Thank you sir!!
Your comparison about these 2 bikes is an eye opener for those wanting to own high end bikes but could not afford one and gives a comfortable feeling to an average biker like me who is satisfied with regular affordable bikes that fit my purpose. Thank you!
Amazing video. I plan on getting the Ozark Trails bike to begin mountain biking. It's something I've always wanted to. Everyone that I know that bikes a lot keeps telling me to get a $6k+ bike but that's just not an option for me for a hobby that I'm unsure on how much I'll do. Thank you.
I love this, 0.5 million views and NOT typical UA-cam salesmanship! Keep going
Keep up the good work bud. thanks for the content
Awesome video! Hoping to see the Ozark Trail get pimped out.
I like the dig at the titan sub😝
Love the video keep up the great
Great video. I believe doing a similar comparison but with full suspension bikes would be very interesting. Then you may find some bigger differences.
Love it. This was me, I started with a $200 cheap hardtail and slowly upgraded parts. Now it's biggest limitation is weight, but ya know, get strong, biking is supposed to be a workout right
a 400 dollar bike is still a luxury
Depends on your income, for some it's their mode of transportation.
@@billbobcovey7998a mountain bike is not likely someone's mode of transportation. $400 really is quite a luxury for the vast majority of ppl in the US
Been watching you for about a decade. Watched you move from Jacksonville to Asheville. I still have your face sticker on a few coolers and my Ranger. Still have your “Seth’s Bike Hacks” t-shirt.
I just recently discovered your channel. Your videos are sooo well done and entertaining. Guess I might bingewatch some lol. Btw: I never thought your HT would be that heavy - but in hindsight: you got the heavier wireless derailleur and a dropper seatpost plus the tool in the front post. Should be the stuff which makes it heavier than the most expensive CC fullys.
It would be cool to upgrade some parts on the $400 bike to see how much it would cost to get it to be decent.
Never worth buying and upgrading Walmart bike where every component really needs replaced.. Look at the $599 Salsa Rangefinder 29" right now for example. Would take putting $1000 all in Ozark to be similar spec
@@derek2gloves KevCentral would like a word with you. Especially this Ozard Trail bike, it's very very good for $400
@@qui11 It's not bad for $400 but lot of cons vs buying used sub $500 XC 29er or spending $600 on good bike deals like that salsa rangefinder or even $599 new Polygon Xtrada that has deore, hydraulic brakes, better fork, boost rear, listed geometry vs Ozark with unknown groupset, no hydralic brakes, 135 rear, no geometry numbers, and doubt most local shops would or could service it. Mandatory to upgrade brakes if riding trails and I doubt most beginners can replace internally routed brakes with hydraulic + the cost.
@@derek2gloveswhere does this mentality come from? People were riding full rigid bikes with rim brakes for years. You do *not* need hydraulic disc brakes unless you're riding very crazy trails very quickly. 😂
And what do you mean about if a shop could or would service... what? The bike? If you have a shop that won't service a bike because if its perceived cheapness, I'd suggest never stepping in there again. They're either snobbish excuses for humans, or severely lacking in talent.
Fantastic breakdown! An entry-level clutched derailer would make them a lot closer. It’d be interesting to know how much that would have increased the price of the Ozark Trail.
I'm already working on building the Superzark 😂
Let’s not Kid ourselves people there is no comparison between the two bikes. Walmart shoppers like to hype the Walmart bikes but in reality you only buy them because that’s all you can afford.
@@MikeR65 Or you buy this one because it has more potential than some of the other budget bikes.
@@BermPeakExpressmake it a series where you see how far you can go to the next level. The superzark to the ultrazark, megazark and end up at the godzark
@@MikeR65Sometimes you buy them because there's better things to spend money on. I'll take experiences over stuff any day.
Thanks for this video on this bike. I’ve been looking for a new bike that won’t break the bank. Now I know this is a good bike for the money I’ll get one and I can upgrade parts as I go.
Wow! This is a really good video. I learned a lot from this video. I really appreciate all that you shared here. Great job! Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Very interested to see how a few upgrades change the ridge.
I mean, even 1200 doesn't get you an air fork on most bikes.
I could see a few upgrades that make the ridge cost maybe 1000, including purchase price.
It would be a very good mild to moderate trail bike.
Hell I'm still bombing around on my 11 year old 26" Giant revel. But it has enough upgrades on it that make it a totally capable ride, and I have fun on it still.
I'm definitely looking forward to a build up on the Ridge.
Its funny you say that. I finally pulled the trigger on 3 - Niner Air 9 bikes. It was on sale new for $1099, so I bought 2 for my daughters that have far outgrown their Trek Roscoe 24 bikes. The price was so good I decided to pick one up for myself. Give Rob at Hutch's bicycle in Vegas a ring. He will hook you up. Been running my 2010 Giant Revel 0 forever. Its been rebuilt a few times and has been converted to a 1x10 drivetrain of used parts from marketplace. I made the 26" wheels tubeless by using gorilla tape and cutting a valve out of a motorcycle tire and using e4000 glue to seal in the valve. Held for 3 years till I landed short on a sharp edge and blew out the sidewall of the tire and broke 3 spokes. Going to have to rip out the tubeless setup and run a tube in the rear as the tire is almost new. Cant waste a $50 tire.
The only three upgrades legitimately worth investing in if you're on a budget (in no particular order): Dropper post, tubeless tyres, gearset with clutch and narrow-wide chainring.
Those are by miles the biggest bang for buck you get on a bike. Transformational to the experience. Not having to deal with flats and dropped chains and being able to easily get your saddle out of the way (or not killing yourself with a bad pedal angle uphill) are all massively important.
You can live with a little more weight, coil spring suspension, cable-driven brakes and so on, at least until you get fast enough that these become a significant limitation.
@KindredBrujah that's what I started with. Well, I waited on the dropper. Tires, drivetrain, and a good seat and grips is what I started with.
imaging paying 13,000 for a hardtail
That weighs over 26 lbs
Makes his other full suspension better value for money.
Imagine paying 13k for any bicycle.
Great honest review/comparison.
love your videos mannn!! and the way you explain the pros and cons😊
Great, honest comparison. Followed by common sense advice. Thank you.
I really appreciated the explanation of why to start with a "cheap" bike, make upgrades as you go along and then consider buying something more..
@@programxxx
Thanks for the advice, but I disagree. 90% of people buying a bike, of any kind, are not professional riders, they're into having a bit of fun and exercise . I'll take my 600 mongoose fat tire mtb through various trails, jump it here and there pull a wheelie... or a "technical" whatever the pros or semi pros or wanna be pros call it now.
I've done a few upgrades that have improved the performance, as well. Hydraulic brakes, front forks and a drop seat. So I'm about 800 bucks into it.
The first mtb I had was a 29" I got from a local proshop. A bit over 4 grand. My $600 mongoose performs just as well for the fraction of the cost, even before my meddling.. lesson learned with that.
It's like my 2005 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4, that I paid 3 grand for, plus about 3 grand in modifications , performs just as well as my friend's 2019 Ram 1500 TRX he paid over $90,000 for.
When you get down to it, it all becomes a group think, a clikish subculture of pretentiousness nonsense, when you overspend on a bike to fit into the, "crowd"
No way in hell, would I spend 13k on a bicycle. The extra $12, 200 I would have to spend, would not return that much value in longevity nor performance. At the end of the day, I'll continue to be one of the unwashed masses of bicyclists society.
@programxxx Evidently, you and I come from different generations. As a Gen X'r, I gave zero f$&@s about the "tiny print" and jumped cheap Kmart bikes off the roof of my house and the frame nor forks broke... the wheels bent to shit, but that was about it.
As far as the "fine print" about warnings, they're there for legal reasons, so the idiots can't sue when their children do stupid shit, like we did back in the day. The difference being , is that there were fewer lawyers back then willing to sue over every damn thing. Less people in general were less likely to as well.
The cheap bikes back then were really, really cheaply made as well. Compared to today's "cheap" bikes, by a Long shot.
I never said you were lying, I disagreed with your premise of what these bikes are capable of and the notion that very miner angles of frame design were somehow more dangerous, that's nonsense.
Is this guy doing an advertisement for Wal-Mart bikes ? Probably, but that doesn't dimish what he said. Which on essence was for beginners to start cheap, modify, then when ready or willing, "go big" That is wise advise.
@programxxx I have to say that your reasoning is based on opinion and a complete lack of knowledge on how corporations protect themselves from litigation. I will also say that you obviously lack real-world experience with taking mechanical objects and improving their performance. I have owned cheap and expensive bicycles. In the past, the performance and endurance differences were quite obvious.
However, over the last few years, that is no longer the case. The Ozark displayed in this video was performing just as well as the 13,000 custom made bike. I could take the time and buy the same crank, pedals, saddle etc on the custom bike , install them on the cheap bike and get the exact same performance. Those are facts.
I'd love to see the $400 bike get over built with everything as high end as possible then compare it again.
I want to see this Ozark Trail get upgraded! Come on Seth! Dig into that spare parts bin 😂
Thanks, I just started biking, know nothing about bikes, and wanted to know why my Walmart bike cost $100 and pro bikes are 2-3k+. Good to know I can learn how to upgrade my current bike as I grow in skill. Very helpful video!
Love your honesty, so many other bike channels never consider a viable bike under 1000 dollars.
It’s like comparing a supercar against a modded honda civic, sure they both go on the road and both can do the same thing, but at the end of the day the civic has a low barrier to entry but with potential for more fun. But the more expensive car is built for you, more comfortable and just that much better engineered.
Epic vid! Both are sick bikes! Love the stuff Seth
Seth! Love your channel! Can you do a video on Gravel Bikes? I want to understand their capabilities more. Maybe do a road vs gravel vs trail bike? Or just gravel vs mountain bike video?
hi🌷 I did learn alot thanks!, loving ur ride 🚴🏼♂️
I love your vids Seth keep up the good work ( I think you should try and do a collaboration with Sam pilgrim bc you guys have the same silly mind )
That shipwreck line was so outta pocket ☠
Thanks for your honesty seth! Its refreshing. But dont stop enjoying that bike. Something about having a bike that you wamted, to the spec, makes it...better. the intangibles. Like, does a paint job really matter...? Not really. But if that paint gets you on the bike to ride it more...then maybe yea. Yea it does. Cheers. Enjoy your ride.
Thanks, I have 2 ebikes, one is a very expensive full suspension Haibike, the other is a very cheap Giant hard tail which I fitted a Bafang mid drive motor, I love both, and am slowly upgrading the cheapo. Both have their merits but in several ways the Bafang is better, it is quieter and of course you can tune it to your requirements, and if you burn out the controller etc, it is very cheap and easy to fix.
You made this 400$ bike cooler🤣
How much would the custom bike cost if it’s mass produced 🤔
Less than half, I would guess.
I started on a $400 Nishiki Colorado Comp back in 2019. It's still stock and I only just recently (in May 2023) "upgraded" to a Giant Talon 0. I still prefer my Nishiki to the Giant on most rides that don't involve a lot of climbing.
You have a great channel. Thank you for the superb content.
I fully realize my bike is far more expensive then it needs to be. But i love identifying the slight differences over priced parts allow for. Ohlins suspension and. Sram transmission, are no doubt on my horizon. Lol
Please upgrade the hell out of that Walmart bike and let's see how it does 💪
You know the Superzark is coming!
@@BermPeakExpress I would love to see modest upgrades for the person on a budget who bought the $400 bike.
I have a similar bike and would love to know which upgrades are worth it.
Seth hitting it with the spicy jokes 🤣
Great information. Yes. I have experienced this since starting mountain biking back in the early 80's. Diminishing returns. Compromises.
So. On that budget hardtail, which "upgrade" do you think would be the best budget bang for the buck upgrade that would put it closest to your Ti HT? I would go with wheels/tires. But that's just me. And at what price point would you think would be worth it for those wheels/tires?
This video was so much fun. I'm going to get and Industry Nine stem . . . just because.
As someone from Europe, I always feel a bit left out when it comes to budget [product] reviews, like for the Ozark. I think a roundup review of budget bikes from around the world would be really cool, and it would reach a huge audience from around the world. I bet the comparatively small big box stores in other countries would be more than happy with the exposure, too!
Maybe some of us could capture footage testing and showing the bikes and send it to Seth for editing? Or if Seth would be up for some traveling I’m sure people would volunteer and collaborate with bike sourcing and providing access to a workshop.
This Ozark is similar to Decathlon Rockriders, but the Decathlon bikes are cheaper.
Nice one Seth, 13000 USD for a hardtail. Thats not something you see everyday. Lekker video 💪🏽
I started earlier this summer on a vintage Mesa Runner and just upgraded to a Nishiki Pueblo and thought that (being all I can afford right now) was a huge jump in quality.
Revgrips are so nice for my local park, all the braking bumps have half the effect as not having them
Made this video just to brag.
Can you do a test where you do 13,000$ bike vs 400$ bike in a time trial from the top to bottom of Berm Peak? Lowest time wins
Assuming I clear everything, both bikes would have nearly the same time since Berm Peak is mostly a jump trail with features. In fact, the titanium one might be slower since it's easier to clear jumps with. To test which one is faster, we would need to ride some singletrack or maybe a bike park tech trail. I'd definitely consider doing that in the future!
@@BermPeakExpress I would love to see the single-track or bike park video idea.
Lowest time? Wow so groundbreaking
@@BermPeakExpress I think the brakes could make the titanium one faster because can you really rely on the mechanic brakes to brake late?
Speed is not the only measure of a bike. Durability, reparability in remote areas, comfort, FUN!, and of course cost, all matter. Speed is probably about the last consideration for some of us. There's also something really fun about riding a cheap bike beyond what people think it's capable of. $13,000 bike? You're going to look like a chump being anything less than amazing on it.
Totally awesome honest truth !! EXCELLENT EXCELLENT EXCELLENT VIDEO!!
I spit my drink out at the Titan reference!!