Hi-Fi Power Cables. My Experience.
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- Опубліковано 2 лип 2024
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Todays video is about HiFi Power cables. I talk about my experience with a big money cable and a couple of cables that are very affordable and actually help some systems! Power cables are a touchy subject and even I am skeptical still after years of messing with them. This is just me telling my experience and nothing more. Enjoy!
Enjoy!
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I hear clear differences in my system too. Many people insist it's not possible but they have probably not actually tried it.
Yes! the ones with the strongest opinions are the ones that have never tried it, but they can tell you 100 reasons why they won't make a difference.
@@Pete.across.the.street isn't that always the way?
Spot on. Totally with you on that.
lol your name is phantom plastics, those differences you hear with your cables are also phantom, phantom psycho acoustics
Prove it!
I personally recommend a better power cable for your TV, the visuals are insane.
Hi are you saying that the images get better? Which cable do you use? Shielded?
Thanks a lot Gino
@@gino3286 He's being sarcastic.
@@johnratcliffe6438 hi I see
Actually some appliances do use shielded power cables like photocopiers
I tend to believe in shielded power cables
They don't need to be very expensive
@@johnratcliffe6438 Shielding is needed to combat the effects of EMI. Cables can be a main source of transfer for EMI, both as a source and receiver. As a source, the cable can either conduct noise to other equipment or act as an antenna radiating noise. As a receiver, the cable can pick up EMI radiated from other sources.
(taken from the web)
Buy it, try it if you don't like it send it back is the absolute key to all audio purchases. If the seller won't do that walk away whether that's speakers or mains cables. Vitally important you try it in YOUR system in YOUR room.
For speakers perhaps, power leads nope.
I envy those who stays in countries where you can just return a purchase when you don’t like it. Here in Singapore, we can only return faulty product on receiving and in many cases, the seller won’t take returns even if it’s faulty, we have to go to the authorized Centre’s. So far, I only know that we can do that for Apple products. I’d returned the iPhone 12 after I receive it and found it too small for my old man eyes, they accepted it and gave a full refund.
@@BillyKueekSG I have never returned any audio stuff apart from some KEF speakers. You don't need to try anything in your room apart from speakers.
@@MrsZambezi I am more of a headphone user although I have a simple home theatre and HiFi. I have physical disabilities so I tend to purchase things online but regardless of what it is, there’s just no return policy here except for faulty items. I read with envy when many can return DAC, amps, speakers, headphones, IEMs just because they didn’t like how it sounds or performs. For us here, we got to resell it as a used item and take some losses.
Yes absolutely. If the improvement is not obvious, never be afraid of sending them back. Also, it is not a given that more $ = better sound.
Once again :
- Cables do make a difference in sound...
- The result is not correlated to the price you pay !
- The placebo effect of the price tag is your worst enemy !
So just try and don't expect anything... it can be better, it can be worst, it can be the same... but most of the time it's just different !
And you can get unexpected surprise !
Cables argh!!
Many forget to mention materials construction shielding terminals etc
And there are examples such as Jay’s Audio where there are plenty of demo’s of differences between cables. I have a variety of cables across my system and I can switch between them. Speaker cables do make a difference too… esp silver vs copper.
I upgraded to $50 power cables, and they made a difference in my mid fi system on the DAC and amplifier. I suspect their effectiveness is related to how clean your wall power is. In my case, I have dirty power, so the upgrade helped improve the soundstage by a noticeable difference. I was skeptical beforehand.
Which cables did you buy?
@@reptidan I got Audiocrast cables from the famous online shopping store. 10 guage, plain black color. Of course, your mileage may vary.
@@arthurkillen396 thank you, I’m going to look into those.
@@arthurkillen396 Why not just say Amazon?
Actually it made no difference whatsoever.
Wonder if they’ll work with powered tower speakers ?
I have to use this power cable for my air-conditioning to make unit quiet and cleaner air
if you use it on your washing machine your clothes will come out cleaner & brighter 😆
@@jdekong3945 that's true but i have to try it 😎👌
It will NOT make your air cleaner.
@@jdekong3945 but you can only wash white clothes, colors will be off after the washing cycle
Why are they never UL or ETL, or DIN, or VDE, or CSA tested to meet industry qualifications?
I use Russ Andrews Kimber power cables, they work as when you cross the individual cores they help reduce interference that's already present in the mains. This interference is a problem for class a b amps and also the analogue side of dacs. When you use these cables I have more detail in the sound, and sound is more musical.
Actually they make no difference at all, just like most things Russ sells.
@@MrsZambezi every single RA product I've tried made an improvement, what products did you try and not like?
@@BoomerUKEngland They make an improvement, but only to Russ's bank balance. I don't need to try obviously fraudulent products.
@@MrsZambezi Yeah I got some . No audible difference.
When you say your voltage is super high at home, what numbers are we talking here? Just trying to compare with what I see in my home
What about the power cables that run inside the walls of your house? Will they make a difference or can the difference only be detected from the power socket and onwards?
Because power cords deliver AC, the components first and last experience the field round the power cable.
The only upgrade I have done is changing the stock cable fr my Sutherland phonostage and it made a difference. I will change the power cable eventually to my PrimaLuma EVO 400 integrated amp but I am saving up for other additions and upgrades. I am glad that you have presented us with a possible cost effective solution.
Sutherland is a great company. I wish he made more than phono preamps.
in electrical design and maintenance, batteries and capacitors are the exceptions and not the rule. They are only components shown on schematics and wiring diagrams.
Usually high quality cables use better wires and plugs compared to the generic ones Another important issue could be a correct grounding of various components
Is it better or just different I've tried a lot of things that were not better or worse just different what's your thinking on that
It makes a difference sometimes. Not always for the better...
Wow .
This is exactly what I have found. Thanks.
Haven’t experimented with power cables yet. Might be time to give it a try.
Thanks
You mention that reducing line noise increases low level transparency, I just installed a Topping P50 to feed their budget E30 dac. Initially hardly noticed any improvement but it soon became apparent that the upper midrange harshness had almost disappeared and sounds became more complete. Previously the music’s recording engineer seemed cause certain songs to be too bright, thin and hashy / distorted. Some of this music became quite listenable and all improved. I doubt any of this was measurable but I don’t think I imagined it. Found this P50 for only $150. dollars and it’s not going back. See this is how us audiophiles get suckered in. My system just improved but I’m thinking, how much better would better would a more forgiving dac sound?
The Ifi Nova had som early production problems and they where not made to specs. Hope they fixed it by now. It was discovered in the spring of 2022.
Thats interesting. Can you link where you found this info? Thanks.
Sources of noise in a Hi-Fi system?
1. Internally from components that transmit electromagnetic noise
2. Introduced internally from the power supply or from other component inputs, from a source to a DAC for example
3. Introduced externally from routers and other electronic gear through the environment into your unshielded equipment including cables.
in general, the electronic noises use the electron flow as the direction of electrical current, and the engineers use the conventional direction of electrical current.
They make the main cable coming into my home from the power transformer have cable envy.
Not just envy, they are actually excitedly hard, hoping for a connection to be made.
My biggest reason for hoping power cables don't actually make a difference is that I would need them for the AVR, 2 monoblocks, separate preamp, dac, and cd transport. At even just $300 per cable that's 2 grand with tax. What components would you upgrade the cables for and which would you not bother?
Steven don't get stuck in the trap thinking only expensive audiophile cables will work. All different types of cable geometry and materials will sound a bit different to each other. But if your stock cables can be improved on you can try any alternative.
None of the differences in cables will be audible with the exception of speaker cables. They need to be low resistance.
@@MrsZambezi yes I have found speaker cables make the most difference to the sound
You have to try for yourself. But, before you try new cables, be sure to have cleaned those that you have: even stock cables sound better after you clean the connectors. You don't want to compare cables with dirty connectors with cables with clean connectors.
In order of importance, which components would you upgrade power cables for? DAC? Preamp? Power amp? Subwoofer? Electrostatics?
Depends what you currently have. Power cables will probably give you the least bang for your buck, dac could be the most.
new listening room
Source first, then pre anp, then amp
Cheers!!
Is the improvement in sound correlated to the price you pay or the quality of the product? A lot of the expensive ones are built no better than the $50.00 ones on Amazon.
ifi has very, very advanced and performer marketing staff. It seems like they rediscovered the powder in hifi. If you filter all in hifi you finaly filter the sound too.
I have some power cables and I couldn't tell a difference. I have Kimber speaker cable and I could tell difference.
Not likely you could tell the difference.
I have the similar experience. I used Kimber power and speaker cable.
You couldn't hear a difference because there is no difference to be heard.
Any claimed difference heard is a product of ones imagination / hallucination / delusion.
I am a bit reluctant towards active power conditioners. People say they close in sound (Paul McGowan amongst them).
Conditioners that use anything in series with the mains can limit transient current supply, which strangles dynamics, but a properly designed audiophile conditioner uses only parallel components which have no effect on current delivery.
@@banginghats2 Every other device in every other home connected to your particular phase will cause transients. Series components in your "conditioner" are so small fry by comparison.
if an amplifier needs a "special"power cable to combat the miniscule transients an ripples then news flash that amp has a crap power supply and filtering inside 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I’d be worried that those incredibly heavy cables would break the power receptacles of my components.
And your damn bank account. This is, without a doubt, woo woo.
The Supernova power cable has dc blockers integrated ?
What
4 points.
The PS Audio power regenerator is basically a 800 watt amplifier fed by a 50/60 hz signal.
A common feature of all these cables is a ferrite noise filter, which may make a difference. You can buy these collars for a few dollars and fit them yourself.
If they are so effective, why don't McIntosh supply one with their $10K amps. I suspect that they are happy with their own filtering.
You would do far better having an electrician wire your power points directly to the switch board, isolating it from other power in your premises.
Have anyone ever taken one apart i would recommend you do
THEY REALLY RAISED THE PRICE ON THOSE PRETTY HIGH
Did you use an oscilloscope to check for any ripples or spikes ?
or can these things only be measured with the ear ?
It's measured with the eye 2:22
You check the PSU caps with an oscilloscope. Low and behold all the spikes and ripples are gone, regardless of any mains crap that might be present.
Why do you not use the cable provided with your Amp? That should make the Amp perform conform specifications?
Great information, just starting to experience cables...I purchased a Vincent SV-737 hybrid integrated amplifier ...What should I do first...get a power conditioner ( what one for entry) buy the nova cable for my integrated or for the power conditioner or what...do I need a nova for each device ?
Thanks so much!
Be very careful of power conditioning. I removed all conditioning from my system, found a neutral power board and am enjoying overall, a more natural, easy on the ear presentation. I've found power conditioning can clean a lot of the " music " out of a system.
I will be getting my ifi SupaNova Cord today!! I have all stock cables so I will be sharing my experience with this cable. I will be using it on the Arcam SA20 and Arcam ST60 Streamer. Let see how it goes!
How did it go Edwin
Sorry for the late reply. I am really enjoying using it to power my Arcam SA20. My music is a more rich and dense. I am enjoying it and have l zero regrets. Now I want to get a second one to power my streamer👍😎
I am now using it with a Denon PMA-A110. It sounds fantastic
Before i would venture into this world of power cables i would have to get a long demo of sorts, in my mind how does it work, you have cheap cabels running in the wall and the cables inside the amp are probably not the same price either.
in general, the electronic technicians use the electron flow as the direction of electrical current, and the engineers use the conventional direction of electrical current.
Power cable need to meet the amperage peak power requirements, or a little above to be on the safe side. No more.
If 14 guage is sufficient, 16 gauge may compromise the amp and 10 gauge might be unnecessary.
Different types of interconnect, home made, borrowed from a hi fi dealer, bought used etc. Sound different to each other and can be used to tailor the sound of your system.
You're imagining it.
@@MrsZambezi No I'm not imagining it. Different types have a certain sound. Two examples: If you try mains cable it has a bassy dullish sound. Thin Silver plated copper single strand wires are brighter sounding .
@@adotopp1865 Oh yes you are imagining it. It's the placebo effect.
Nah, it’s real.
@@a.s.2426 I've been trying different interconnect I have between my phono stage and amp to calm down the sound I was getting from records. I tried four versions and found the best synergy.
I use power cable to get emotions..however, i modded it from original..
Power cable makes a difference, but not sure if it is significant for the investment and efforts of changing out. But some power cables just make the system look way better. Thus sounds better.
No, they don't make any difference.
Don't forget to replace your electricity wiring in your house by these cables.
Just installed 3 x 18m Gigawatt installation cable, made a HUGE difference.
It sounds like you have a question for PS Audio and a reason to doubt that your power regenerator is functioning as advertised.
This ^
i could imagine that the powerplant isnt doing something fancy with ground, thats probably why you still hear differences with cables going into the powerplant
IFI seems to be a company that is aggressively marketing products so I have some Spidey sense barriers that go up when I hear that name.
Bottom line- Did you continue with the Blue Jeans or Nordost power cables you were using or did you switch to the IfIs?
I tried their DC blockers and they made a positive difference.
Still too expensive. I'd rather buy the ones that cost 50 bucks on Amazon ' and look like thousand dollar ones. Right now I have a purple flair and some Cullen cable power cords that at the time I didn't mind spending on. Since then, my power cords are stock or "fancy" looking ones from Amazon.
This is why Audiophile is a bad word in the real audio industry.
I was working on a bass amp once and the guy had a who had such a thick power cable it was breaking the IEC Jack. I opened it up to check it out and the cable going to the tiny traces on the circuit board were 18 gauge.
I looked up the cable and found one of the best Amazon reviews about the cable where the guy in a long drawn out description said after getting the cable he realized his house cable was inadequate so he replaced all of that. then he realized the power company lines were a problem. Then after he traced the problem back to the power company transformers and his wife bailed him out of jail for trespassing he gave up on the dream.
Seriously there is filtering that can help certain situations and solid connections to minimize inefficiency due to loss is the best your going to get. Everything else is really a load of crap.
Yes there's a lot of ubsoluute roobish
I haven't been to drawn into all that stuff much. I'm more interested in their construction or the way the cables look lol
Audiophoolery.
My question is: What about all the power cabels in the wall? The cables in the wall are cheap cobber wires, and will be "the weakest link" no matter what.
The wires in the wall will feed the socket and a super cable is designed with crossing negative and positive wires which will act as a filter to RFI.
@@justinbennitt835 thanks for the feedback on MCRU cables. I have tried Russ Andrew's and for what they cost I was not impressed.
@@justinbennitt835 But you found it worth buying the MCRU basic DIY cable ?
Maybe yours are. Mine are on a dedicated line.
@coxysailor
Your home and everything in between must be re-wired all the way back to the power generating station to have satisfactory sound on your audio system.
Or just use balance connection.....
I use SMSL DAC-AMP. Zero noise! Normal cable! Zero $!
He didn't say it reduces noise. Just that it sounds better with a better cable. He didn't say that it was worth it either. With the gear your using it would be difficult to buy aftermarket power cables that make economic sense.
GR Research recommends starting at the source first. For example, stream, then dac, then pre, and last power amp.
Small signal cables may benefit from shielding. Once it's a large signal, probably doesn't have much of an effect
Don't you need to make sure your wall outlet is a direct circuit to the breaker first???
Yes this is what i have done. I have a 6mm spur feeding my Hi Fi.
Yes it's an excellent idea and you hear the difference. And also buying a new breaker (nothing fancy: 80$) made a difference (the old one was from the 90's).
Just get you a PS Audio Noise Harvester and call it a day 😂😆
Don't be silly
To absorb earthquake energy.
but......the cable behind the wall socket is...?
Those old arguments. The argument that the kilometers of wires until the wires come to the socket.
As usual it is always those that never have heard a difference that looks for "logical" explanations that support their believe.
After they self experienced a difference then they find alternative arguments. Like the one above..
Looking from the component perspective it is the first feet's that is the most important.
It is funny how we now turned the "logic" around 180°. Just to support our belief, that is convince. 😉
@@AmazonasBiotop Well said. Totally agree 👍🎶😊
not braided to reject RFI
Electrical engineers say that, in an electrical circuit, electricity flows one direction: out of the positive terminal of a battery and back into the negative terminal. Electronic technicians say that electricity flows the other direction: out of the negative terminal of a battery and back into the positive terminal.
That's experts for you. They used to say the Earth was flat.
AC line cords in the real world, do not have funny names....
Ummm , how would these work with powered tower speakers ?
No sorry you will have to get a mains filter
Thanks will do .
Mugs eyeful.
The Nova is $300. The Nordost's Blue Heaven is $275
Whenever I think about premium power cables, I also think about the miles of cable from the power station to the house - costing around 3 cents a yard. 😁
well... what do you think about it?
And why do you distrust people's ears?
Exactly!
the cables to your house are heavy gauge tho like 4 or 6mm² ATLEAST
Are these cables ul approved
Probably not
UL certification is so passé.
These cables are certified by accurate, self-calibrated listening devices.
Note its engineers who have the knowledge who debunk power cable myths....
You have to try them to find out
@@adotopp1865 Knowingly wasteing your time is worse than wasteing your time.
@@listeningto8371 do you mean wasting my time?
Are engineers actually doing listening tests though. They seem to dismiss it on what they've been told at electrical college.
@@adotopp1865 yes and guess what, no difference,stop being seduced by snakeoil and be happy..
I Dunno... 80% correct on an ABX test ???
yes keep getting fooled by your "foolproof" ABX tests, you have to know the system well to notice the "big" changes people are talking about, switching and listening each 10 secs doesnt reveal anything
@@dornauge1995 You wrote: "switching and listening each 10 secs" -- Strawman on your part
Can you please do a session for the rapper Takeoff ?
Different? sure. Better? Debatable
Yes I agree
Physics says you are deceiving yourself
Electronics theory shows he's right, and ignorance is bliss ;)
Sorry John, electricity flows in a closed circle, called a circuit. To reach our homes, electricity travels from power stations, through transmission lines and distribution lines, until it flows into the wires that power our devices.
@@adotopp1865 Again: please take some time and study. The Feynman Lectures on Physics are freely available online. In a few years you can have a better idea of how many things you have to learn.
@@DaveJ6515 what do I need to learn? Everything is sorted thanks., 😊
Now, you’ve got to treat your connectors with Furutech Nano Liquid.
That Liquid transformed my system, it now sounds magical!
You now have the best sounding system on the block! Didn't even need to upgrade your speakers! 🤣🤭
no difference. Ite the fact that you're making a change, so when you're listening more carefully, you hear more things. ABX is the way to really know.
No it isn't. Interconnects affect the sound. It's obvious in my system.
Yeah right
Different does not always mean better. Most of time, it isn"t.
I am eager to read the results of your extensive research.
Yesterday my Supernova arrives.
My Test Equipment:
Kef Meta
Lexicon RV9
Nvidia Shield modified Power suppy
At the begin i change Nvidia Power suppy to Supernova.
My wifes First comment:
Sound more clear, Pictures have more colour TV. She isnot s Fan of Hifi!! My comment:" This clearness in Bass areas... Many more Details at TrueHD films. More room. Digital interferences are gone...
I compare with tertellus 200eu and phonosophie 500eu cables.
Audioquest Hurricane > 1000eu.
All Power cables are better than normal Product cables.
Supernova kills them all with a big advantage. I will change any device to Supernova.
I was really confused because one wire on the power supply made that difference.
Changing from Denon 6400h to Lexicon RV9 was just as big..
Best Deal for 500eu!!!!!
Cables can 100% make a difference.
Sure. Just disconnect them and all will be silent
@@AudriusN have you ever tried swapping/upgrading your power, speaker cables or interconnects, or are you just going by what you’ve read on the internet?
Power cable, well in my case a power board. On one outlet there is a bit of hum . Move to another it clears . Cause bad grounding connection.
The best power cables aren't worth anything unless they come with a small container of serpent derived lubricant.
Hahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
In a wire, negatively charged electrons move, and positively charged atoms don't.
what about using an equalizer for 50 pounds?
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Thick or heavy means EXPENSIVE in the audio world.
If you want to clean up your AC, get an AC regenerator UPS. I used these throughout my IT career to protect some damned expensive gear. These units basically convert line AC to DC and then convert the DC back to clean AC. No noise and a guaranteed clean sine wave. After that, YMMV.
Some of these units have noisy fans, so there's that.
Addendum: Liebert/Emerson makes excellent units. You can find surplus units on eBay, particularly the GXT3 - GXT4 series. The neat thing about them is that you can stack battery modules to extend their runtime.
As musicians working in clubs and hotels we used a rackmounted Power Conditioner to clean up any issues with fluctuations in the power sources we had to use in different venues.
The problem is that even a slight increase in impedance could limit the dynamics of the power amp.
It's funny that people are talking about SnakeOil, it's all about physics & electronics! Its obvious, different materials like silver, copper, rhodium... do have different properties...yes, it will have impact on audio signal transport..yes, it has heavy impact on amp,dac etc internal cabling ...active noise cancelation? Hmm, no
You have provided no evidence. Dismissed.
Attempting to change the books, theories, and especially the minds of all the engineers and scientists around the world would be the cause of mass arguments. It was also assumed that the actual direction didn't really make a real difference, at least as long as everyone stuck to one direction of electrical flow or the other.
Cables are the most overpriced part in HIFI. There are 500-1000 pricent increase in price.
🤣🤣🤣
You have hundreds of miles of cheap crappy wire from the transformer station to your house, and the the last meter would make a BIG difference. You are insane.
Is he telling lies then?
@@adotopp1865 Ah, this tired old argument again.
@@adotopp1865 Doh!
@@martinjohnson2381 why bother then? Why all the negativism?
@@martinjohnson2381 which one?
ROFL.. look behind your power plates
Lol so now they impact some amps but not others? Power is power, that statement is illogical. If it impacts one it has to impact the rest.
Power is power but some power supplies are more sensitive to cable changes than others. How a cable sounds depends on what you use it with.
@@groovesick If it's that sensitive it's a wonder it doesn't blow up when the voltage fluctuates
No, No, No, I use stock power cords, my power where I am is pretty dirty and my system is silent, why? cause all that AC crap DOES NOT make it past the gears power supply. Stable or unstable voltage is about the only thing on the AC side that will affect the sound. 60hz hum is the worst contamination of the AC and it's there till the PS, then it's GONE. The music is made from DC voltage. PS is the buffer between AC noise and clean DC for making audio signal.
Your ignorance is astonishing 😂
@@Coneman3 ok, then explain how a power cable can make a difference.
I don’t know how I just know it can from experience.
@@Coneman3 You know from experience, but you don't know what you experienced?😂
@@Coneman3 you say such nonsense and dare to call someone out for being ignorant?
🤣😂
This is a disease
It should be established as a compulsive addiction, sometimes causing harm.
100%
Of course it is 😅
In a wire, negatively charged electrons move, and positively charged atoms don't.
@@TechStuff365 Bad comparison
Not watching. Why? Our physics has not changed, that's why.
Sssh, go back to sleep....the tablets will kick in soon.
Was this an April fools post?
Nonsense won't subscribe!
Nonsense!
OMG! This is such a load of hogwash! You hear what you spend and nothing more. It's all in your imagination and need to hear something different to justify the cost of these ridiculous priced cables.
Yeah and then multiply the cost for every single cable you need to replace. 😄
I can understand better shielded cables to minimize EMI. But actually changing the sound coming from the speakers is preposterous. If it does, it's not a change you want.
I believe the company that makes these cables is "Placebo Inc."
@@pdxtom Nocebo.
Have you ever tried one of these cables yourself
No it is true. J.J. Thomson investigated the cathode rays and he figured out about the electron in the atom. He also concluded that the current flow known as the "Edison Effect" was made by electrons traveling through the vacuum
There's no controversy. It's electronics. Changing a power cable doesn't make the slightest difference. Fact.
May I ask which power cables have you actually tried.
@@totalplonker824 Do you mean to see if they work or not?
Quote "There's no controversy. It's electronics. Changing a power cable doesn't make the slightest difference. Fact." Fact... you can't perceive any difference in your system or with your ears. Fact.
Pure. Fucking. Hubris. I wouldn't expect any differently from someone who thinks the success they have achieved in life which allows them to spend $25k on hi-fi would also believe they have golden ears capable of telling the difference between power cables.
Only 25k? That's low-fi, sir. You don't know what you are talking about.
They CAN make make a difference.
So hostile! LOL
Nonsense...unsubscribed
Some cables make a difference especially speaker cables but if you spend more than a few hundred you are being screwed
How much ifi and Amazon pay you
more gobbledeegook by another audiofile who have taken the laws of physics and the english language and made a whole industry out of nonsence .....WellDone !
No there is a fact based explanation the books, theories, and especially the minds of all the audiophiles and scientists around the world would be the cause of mass arguments. It was also assumed that the actual direction didn't really make a real difference, at least as long as everyone stuck to one direction of electrical flow or the other.
🤣🤣🤣