HiFi Real Talk - Why I don't use power conditioners... BUT something else
Вставка
- Опубліковано 16 гру 2020
- Many HiFi audio power conditioners out there like PS audio, Torus, furman, Audioquest Niagara and so on... but
Do power conditoners improve sound quality?
most affordable power conditioner that actually works is not what you think. It may be something that has nothing to do with HiFi or the audiophile world.
for more info on our Reviewer info, patreon, and personal interest in our reviews: nbtsmedia.com/about-us/
Also check out a video about...
Hi-Fi Real Talk ! 🚫 STOP "upgrading" the wrong way. Less is MORE
• Hi-Fi Real Talk ! 🚫 ST...
Vintage HiFi speaker drivers like THIS was the BEST for a reason
• Vintage HiFi speaker d...
Spotify for Hi-Fi Absolutely Sucks? 🤔
• Spotify for Hi-Fi Abso...
Why you shouldn't buy Chinese Hi-Fi products
• Why you shouldn't buy ...
Is HiFi For Rich People because I can't afford anything: • Is HiFi For Rich Peopl...
Hi-Fi Real Talk ! Maximize/evaluate your Speaker's performance in a small room
• Hi-Fi Real Talk ! Maxi...
PATREON: / nbts
Instagram: / nbtstudio2017
Facebook: / next-best-thing-studio...
Twitter: / nbtstudio2017
#hifi #audiophile #hi-fi - Розваги
for more info on our Reviewer info, patreon, and personal interest in our reviews: nbtsmedia.com/about-us/
Also check out a video about...
Hi-Fi Real Talk ! 🚫 STOP "upgrading" the wrong way. Less is MORE
ua-cam.com/video/zJd2M17Hs14/v-deo.html
Vintage HiFi speaker drivers like THIS was the BEST for a reason
ua-cam.com/video/-ruOoVMv2Wc/v-deo.html
Spotify for Hi-Fi Absolutely Sucks? 🤔
ua-cam.com/video/Wj4SXqsDgM8/v-deo.html
Why you shouldn't buy Chinese Hi-Fi products
ua-cam.com/video/rvQkJYKYw0o/v-deo.html
Is HiFi For Rich People because I can't afford anything: ua-cam.com/video/E2pjBAq-VgQ/v-deo.html
Hi-Fi Real Talk ! Maximize/evaluate your Speaker's performance in a small room
ua-cam.com/video/i1LMzgRWfaI/v-deo.html
Hi...
Have you people tryed the Isotek Sigmas?
There’s only one company you need to try: Shunyata. Have you and if so, how do you rate them?
Power Conditioner = Snake Oil
Your Amplifier's power supply convert any AC signal into FLAT "DC" power, then amplifies the music from this DC power.
Your Amplifier does NOT use power in AC form.
That's the basics of Audio Amplification.
So any imperfection gets taken care of in this simple AC to DC conversion step.
Every electronic devices use FLAT DC voltage.
So you absolutely don't need clean AC signal, period. Seriously.
Companies who make these kind of things should be sued for fraud.
Utter waste of money, just like $60,000 speaker cables or $1,000 HDMI cables.
The niagara 7000 situation you saw & could not reproduce elsewhere was probably due to unacceptably crappy wall power.
In such case, get electrician and fix the electric supply lines in the whole house.
Absolutely no reason to get power conditioner, period.
Just a question, were those other tests of power conditioners also made in the same store, with potentialy tens of plugged in devices? Did you try this Niagara gear in your home and did it made as big of a diference there?
@@sbkarajan Thank You for your candor.
I have a new Parasound Halo amplifier, a new Rotel preamp/ processor & Totem Tibe Mini Tower Speaker.
Do you think getting a dedicated line will make an appreciable difference in my overall sound of my system?
I agree, I haven't had any luck with power conditioner or isolation transformers.
Unfortunately, finding the right conditioner is also finding the right power cables. I would have sold my AQ NIAGARA had I kept the Thunder power cord. Some love it, but the Hurricane worked. A friend needed the Firebird. Unfortunately, one must try many cords, and metal surfaces...gold vs silver rhodium vs copper.
Steve, do you have dedicated 15 or 20 amp circuits? or do you share vertical circuits in your apartment building with how many other apt. units? I find power regenerators (PS Audio P12 & P15 Power Plants) does help with sound and imaging making a definite difference in my 1948/1949 built apartment building with the old original wiring and sharing vertical circuits with 5 to 8 other apts. depending on the time of the day.
@@williampearson4968 there’s very little chance you are on “1948” wiring - the insulation would have broken down in the 70’s or 80’s - an oversized medical grade isolation transformer is your friend - a vast majority of “hifi” grade filters are BS or marginally effective at best & yes most are current limiting
@@BogdanWeiss Wiring in my apartment and the other 8 units still has the original 1948 wiring as never replaced. Conduit is in cinder block walls.
I bought the EMI-filter from local electrical shop and Make it to 20 amp. I only use power conditioner for other equipments. I make all cables by myself based on helix structure. Tried more than six versions on each individual cable Finally I feel pretty much satisfied
Years ago I had an electrician run home run to the breaker box with 10awg wire. Spent under $200, best money I’ve spent in a long time on my system.
@@Scottlp2 no- a straight run from the breaker box to the hifi gear
@@NateEll That's exactly what he said.
I'm currently Wiring up my studio / playback room.
I have 3 outlets in the studio room, I decided to "Homerun" each of these directly to the breaker box (on the same phase).
2 questions.
Is 10awg wire truly better than 12awg (20a) and is Romex ok?
And is it best to hook only a *Single* Receptacle up to each line? Or will it make no difference to make each of the 3 outlets with Double Receptacles? This would help me plug into all my gear without having to mess with power strips etc.
I'm using spec grade solid brass Receptacles btw. Any other suggestions?
Levi Jesse Gonzalez just go off ampacity rating and load. For maximum shielding, use Metal conduit and make sure it's properly grounded.
That was outrageously underpriced - Even if your load center was next your audio equipment. 10gauge (30A cable 10/2 costs approx $1.50 per foot.)
I had a power conditioner but it was primarily an ACTIVE surge protector. This was worth its weight in gold. My audio system always shutoff seconds before I heard thunder and before the whole house surge protection kicked in. Food for thought!
I'm an electrician and an audiophile. A dedicated run for stereo should be at minimum 20 Amps, but even better is to run a 30 amp wire and make it a 20 Amp circuit by installing a 20 Amp Receptacle and 20 Amp breaker. The 30 Amp wire makes for less voltage drop, and more headroom and clarity.
Yep, I've got 2 of them powering my system, the exact same way. Did my research, paid the money.
Roughly how much does this cost
@@jay12345ist Jaylen, I never call for an electrician or a plumber unless I have a lot of work to do that I know I can't do myself. So in this case when I installed the two dedicated 20 amp lines with 20 amp circuits from take 5 audio and 20 amp switches, I had a few other things done as well. Including adding a main surge/brownout breaker on the main electrical panel.
My situation is this, I used to 20 amp circuits one dedicated to my two monoblocks and one dedicated to all of my other components going through a Chang Lightspeed line conditioner. My 20 amp switches are before the receptacles and although I keep my monoblocks on all the time I turn off all my other equipment from the second switch to the Chang Lightspeed. This roughly cost me about $1,000 Canadian for everything.
I now get piece of mind and my amps have no dynamics limit. Or at least that's my theory. Does everything sound better this way, yes it absolutely does but only buy a small bit.
Okay, for those of us who are not electrician's you mean 10ga wire and 20a CB's, right?
Damn
@@blkmacster
Yes
That's what he meant...
10awg to the 20a breaker.
That said, regardless whether its a 20a or even a 15a breaker, upsize the run back to the panel with 10awg.
Excellent thinking. Exactly about 20 yrs ago I had my house remodeled with a dedicated 25A line for my entertainment center. Not really thinking of power conditioning, just enough power to run the system without tripping the breaker, but after listening to you wow that was a great thought, because I was considering a power conditioner. Thx 2 heads are better than one ✌.
Had a little eczema on my scalp. A power conditioner cleaned it right up.
And you think the election was rigged, and you sent trump money.
@@ramsaybolton9099 You'd think you useful idiots would get tired of being made to look like fools by the msm, can't fix stupid.
@@bactareality Yes YOU can. You’re the only one who can fix stupid.... it starts with fixing YOU.
@RamsayBolton @BactaReality Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!
Yeah tried head&shoulders HAIR CONDITIONER...that did not work either 😭😭😭
One of the best things I’ve have done to my audio system was dedicated 20amp breaker with 10awg and on a Hubble hospital grade plug.
Would recommend it to anyone getting into the hobby or anyone that has been an audiophile for years.
Set a good base and build from there !
I'm currently Wiring up my studio / playback room
I have 3 outlets in the studio room, I decided to "Homerun" each of these directly to the breaker box (on the same phase).
2 questions.
Is 10awg wire truly better than 12awg (20a) and is Romex ok?
And is it best to hook only a *Single* Receptacle up to each line? Or will it make no difference to make each of the 3 outlets with Double Receptacles? This would help me plug into all my gear without having to mess with power strips etc.
I'm using spec grade solid brass Receptacles btw. Any other suggestions?
@@levijessegonzalez3629 I'm thinking that landing a romex to a dedicated duplex receptacle will work pretty well for you.
@@levijessegonzalez3629 I doubt that there's much of a difference switching from number 12AWG to number 10AWG. Number 10 can get a little hard to work with.
@@levijessegonzalez3629 I know this is a year old post, but if you are running thirsty amps, the 10AWG would be better. If running an AVR, and sources, 12AWG Romex is fine. And like was stated, 10AWG is a bit tougher to work with, especially at the receptacle/outlet. Or, you could homerun a dedicated line/circuit for each amp in your system with the 12AWG, that is what I would do if there is room in your panel. I do all of my own electrical, so it is easy for me to say that.
@@michaelwright1602 well I ended up using 12 guage. I ran 3 dedicated lines.
1 line for my guitar amps and guitar pedals (I record music)
1 line for my PC, audio interface, and different rack mount recording gear.
1 line for my 2 powered studio monitors.
thoughts?
Great handling of a sensitive topic. What you said all makes sense!
Line level components can benefit from simple power conditioning as they only output a few volts max.
Of course you notice the noise in the quiet passages so millivolts of audio is easily affected by low level noise.
Power amps have high voltage rails and big capacitors which will filter out most noise as long as the line input is clean.
Power amps are more sensitive to current not voltage. Dynamics will suffer if current is restricted.
Surge protector are the big enemy, their very name suggest they restrict current surges.
Another easy solution is just buy high efficiency speakers. Very low current demand!
Also why they are more dynamic sounding!
I gave you a thumbs up on this but you are actually only 40% correct.
The most important thing about a good audio system is the get the Grounding / Earthing correct.
It starts at the power distribution board and must be correct throughout your audio system, as well as the rest of the building!
Regardless of the audio system being on a dedicated line.
Many audiophile tricks such as lifting the wires of the floor are often attempts to fight the Earthing problems that may prevail throughout your audio system and indeed the rest of the building.
In our country one of the biggest problems will often be an corroded electrical water heater element.
These water heater elements need to be checked frequently.
When a good electrician installs the dedicated line, he will also check and correct any Earthing / electrical problems throughout the building.
Valid points Jay! I use a UPS from General Electric (VH Series) You can set the frequency and voltage and it generates this nice sine from batteries, I have used it on a JBL S7150 power amp and it was not limited in power.
Good Jay, this is something I try to help with often. There is a bit more I could add to it.
- Try to have power load on each leg of the panel as even possible
- Dedicated line and circuit breaker for amplifier
- Then have all your other electronics on a circuit that's breaker is connected to the same leg as the amplifier's breaker in panel
- Then to take to the next level, make sure the Panel's grounding wire is Thermowelded to the grounding rods. Also, make sure the grounding rods are to code, proper distance apart, depth...etc.
You are on the way to become my favour Reviewer, next to Thomas ;-)
Keep up the Heart felt/honest Reviews !
When we built our house I had a shielded dedicated line put in. I finally got to use it with my audiophile power distributor via a heavy duty shielded power cable. Good tip, Jay. Interesting to hear your experience with the Naim. I made the exact opposite experience since I went from an untreated system next to RF transmitters (WLAN routers) to using the dedicated power sockets and RF shielding on all power cables. Wow! Blacker background, deeper bass, more detail, energetic highs. it started sounding like the $25000 system it would be if I had to replace everything today. All the best, Rob in Switzerland
How to get dedicated shielded installed ? Thanks
@@babagandu It was part of our design for the house as we specified it. If you wanted to do this after the house is built, you would probably need to get an electrician to make a dedicated power outlet socket near your hifi and feed it from the main connection to the house with shielded cable. I hope this was helpful. Alll the best, Rob
Totally agree with the dedicated circuit/line directly from the power box. The other thing that can also make a huge difference is a good earth rod/negative grounding. After doing this I got rid of a lot of hum and buzzing in my systems.
Please explain" Earth rod" haw do you do it. where do you earth to. (See my plea to Jay)
@@johnh539 You drive a metal stake which is at least 8 feet long into the ground next to your house, and then run a wire from that stake to the grounding screw on the outlet you plug your gear or even just the amplifier into. This avoids picking up hum and noise from the many other circuits in your home's breaker panel.
Except it’s dangerous because it bypasses earth ground to the circuit breaker so the breaker won’t protect you in case of a fault at the component. The chassis will be hot and touching it could be fatal.
@@lmff620 I absolutely agree that the earth rod needs to be connected to the main power board earth.
You are correct. It is not a safe way to wire it. With a regular receptacle (not an isolated ground receptacle) the receptacle would theoretically be grounded back to the circuit panel via the mounting strap, but that is only true if the home has metal boxes and all the conduit leading back to the circuit panel is connected securely. Good luck, right? @@lmff620
You sound a lot more humble now, not that you were arrogant, but in terms of tone, it feels that way. :P enjoyed your videos so far! Thank you for doing this.
As posted on your recent video on tweaks. I also have not had much luck with power conditioners. They have their place. However, I concur. The greatest improvement to my system has been dedicated 20 amp circuits where the electrician paid considerable attention to eliminating ground loop hum.. He owned VTL Wotan's and knew exactly what I needed for my Amps. I found that to be far more effective than either power conditioners or insanely priced, after market power cords.
I had a passive Audience ar2p-TO and enjoyed the sound with it in my system. It introduced that juicy, liquid, open characteristic that teflon capacitors often do. Maybe not the most natural, but enjoyable. I view it as tweak like cables, used to tune the sound to taste, but doesn't change the fundamental character of the system components.
Too bad your AC quality has zero effect to your sound output, unless your devices are severely damaged or badly designed. Every hifi device on the planet rectifies the AC to DC at which point nothing from the AC source is affecting the sound output (and this can and has been verified by measurements). Your AC may have huge amounts of distortion and it won't matter.
Fantastic breakdown of a tough topic to tackle! 💥💥
Thanks Jay. I do have a dedicated 20 amp circuit since last October. But I always had my PS Audio power conditioner to my amp. I removed it from my amp and used it for upstream components after watching this video. And my soundstage depth doubled! And I have been lowering my volume like 3 times in 3 hours. I guess the previously un-used dynamic headroom alone sufficiently explains that phenomenon. Probably cleaner power to the upstream helps too. Everything sounds so good and dynamic even when I am doing laundry LOL.
To PS Audio credit, after all these years I only notice today that the 'zones' actually have one labelled 'Amplifier' (RTFM moment), presumably by-passing the choke. Anyway, no urge to trying that option any time soon. And seeing someone saying good thing about PS PC below, I should add that mine is the early gen entry level PC, not the fancy re-generator.
I bought a 6 outlet furman power conditioner/surge protecter that made a definite difference. the difference may be subjective for everyones taste but I really like it and it cost me $70. Well worth the money.
Years ago, I tried a Chang Lightspeed Power Conditioner briefly and haven't used any since. I plug my amplifiers directly into the wall outlet and think they work well. I did change my wall outlets to a commercial grade 20A so they're a little more rugged.
Very very true! Most homes have atleast 5 outlets on one breaker...many extra feet of wire as well. Jumping from one fixture to the next. Not much left to play with...when we start plugin our our hobby!
Great video, thanks for the info.
This video was very good! I always look for your videos when I have a question or need some trustworthy information. I am also a Master Electrician, retired, but my equipment is not in the right placement...yet. So, no dedicated line...yet. I love the info on the power conditioner and when to get one and which one! Thanks!
I had the AudioQuest passive shunts in my system before. They worked. So did the PS Audio Powerplant Premiere. I am finding out that grounding can have significant SQ gains.
Yup, you're right. I ran a dedicated 20A home run for my Krell KSA 150, KSP&B about 15 years ago and it really did the trick. Fortunately, I'm a mechanical engineer and more than comfortable doing all of my own electrical so mine came at almost no cost as I always have plenty of Romex, outlets ... etc ... on hand. I also found this approach beneficial for my computers as well.
What other makes of outlets do you recommend?
I don't see Romex outlets available online but maybe I missed them somewhere in my search. I did see their wiring for sale.
I'm trying to determine if the cost of highering an electrician to put in a dedicated line will make an appreciable difference in the performance of my av system.
I have recently upgraded my gear. I purchased a used Parasound Halo amplifier, a refurbished Rotel preamp/processor & Totem Acoustic Tribe Mini Tower Speakers.
So, just to confirm, IYO a dedicated line would be a good investment for me at this point?
Thanks So Much,
Dave
Thanks. Good timing. I was contemplating buying a power conditioner but now you have presented a alternative worth exploring- dedicated line. Thanks again for Sharing your experiences...
PS- talk about those Dalis behind you 😉
Great video Jay. You can thank whoever gave you that sage advice to install a dedicated power line.
I was fortunate to move into a house for many years now whose owner had rented out one room and installed a separate line entirely. So the whole room has its own meter that is billed separately. I only bought a 1000W AVR and that's it. System is always dead quiet. No substitute for it.
Great review Jay.
Hi Jay thanks for the review I think your point is well taken don't go crazy on a power conditioner until you have the other components first.
My dealer is a Naim, Vinnie Rossi, Lyngdorf, Rega, Clearaudio, Innuos, Chord and NAD dealer for electronics. For cables and electronic accessories he's a firm believer in Audience. I have a new Naim Nait XS3 Integrated Amplifier. Bluesound Node 2i Streamer, an old Kenwood (1990) CD Player and Project DC TT. My dealer promotes the Audience Forte V8, a very basic power conditioner. He specifically does not believe in surge protection "let the internals of the unit do their job." Anyway. after watching your video about a year ago for budget reasons I took my chances with the little round $99 white ifi power conditioner plugged into a straight power strip no surge protection. I should also point out I am not running on a dedicated line. The TV and cable equipment are plugged into the same circuit 6 feet away. It's difficult for one person to do A/B comparisons so I go with my first impression. My first impression after the ifi was I could tell no difference.
Four months after purchasing the Naim and Bluesound I had squirreled up the $900 for the Audience Forte V8. No way I was telling the wife "I spent $900 on a power strip!!!" Currently Audience is throwing in the power cord which is a $150 savings. I plugged the Forte V8 into the wall, the ifi into the other socket in the wall so theoretically I am getting some surge protection? Who knows? The Amplifier into the first socket, Bluesound into the second socket etc. there are 8 sockets and sat down on the couch to listen.
I started with the Streamer. I was startled by how much improvement there was in clarity and and overall sound quality as a first impression. I was sure it was better. I won't say this specific or that specific part of the sound was better I really don't know? 20 minutes later my wife came home from work. She thinks a "Bose Wave Radio" sounds great it does make my audiophile pursuit life difficult. It was nuclear war to get the two new pieces over my 37 year old Denon PMA 750 since it still worked. My speakers are Martin Logan Motion 15's, next stop new speakers (my wife wants to go back to the little Bose cubes put a spike through my head. "They were fine until you went into that stereo store...") But I digress. She comes home, "is that the 'Stream' she calls it you are listening too?" (we are 62 and 58) "Yes, it sounds really good today doesn't it?" "I've never heard it sound that good." I didn't say a word.
Great video. Thank you very much.
Very helpful. Thanks.
GREAT show Jay!
Straight shootin and directed right at folks like me...
Very well done, don't ever change, please carry on!!
Thanks for sharing your experience which is really useful generic stuff.
I don’t have dedicated line (yet) but have recently compared an Airlink balanced mains supply(£500) with Vertex (now called Quiesence) Hi Rez taga (£2500) and a Puritan 165 (£1450). I had active sub, pre and power connected to these conditioners with the turntable power supply and the MC head amp on balanced supplies. The BMS lowered noise floor but skewed the sound making top end frequencies more prominent to the detriment of mid and bass. As you have suggested, maybe it wasn’t doing the power amp any favours although at 100WPC its not particularly current hungry. The Vertex lowered noise floor to a lesser extent as did the Puritan. The Puritan made my music sound great though, much more natural sound.
As you say you can spend many thousands on these power conditioners but I heartily recommend the Puritan 165.
Good information. Thanks.
great video - i had my electrician install dedicated 20a circuits throughout my entire showroom for this exact reason
Totally agree, i have the Niagara 1000 and the difference is huge.
$179 CAD for each dedicated 20A line when building my house. Recently also added a PS Audio P20. Just love the improvement that the P20 brings.
@Homesteader Workouts Some people buy expensive watches/jewelry some people buy expensive blocks of aluminium lol. To each their own I guess.
@@TheEchelon Yes, you do guess. I guess some people get off on trying to be smart.
Except for the fact that the P20 does nothing relevant whatsoever.
@@susokraut3169 How did you have it setup? Maybe you overlooked something.
@@AT-wl9yq I did not set it up as I don't own it and would never spend my money on some completely unnecessary piece of gear. I does nothing of worth and any audio device leads via filters with the input AC easily. That was being measured with the P5.
Agreed on conditioners. I use the Niagara 5000, Hurricane power cord. The power cord is very important with these. The Thunder was too warm and fat sounding to my ears, in my system. The Hurricane fit the bill. Matching is exhausting, but wall outlets, cable choices all affect conditioner success.
The rest of my cables I make myself using rhodium ends.
Thanknyoy for this. Do you mind listing what other products you used that had the less desirable effects and/or no noticeable change from plugging into a wall?
I had a dedicated power line installed. And I listened to my stereo plugged into that for a year. Till I recently tried plugging in my integrated amp directly, instead of via my isotherm isolator, and it sounded absolutely horrendous. Upon taking some measurements I figured that my direct line was the dirtiest and the noisiest line in the whole house. I’m not sure what my electrician did with that direct line, but my stereo sounded a whole lot better when I just plugged into a different shared outlet. This experience and left me more confused than ever.
Having a clean AC is absolutely vital for power amp as the operate in Analogue domain.
Jay you hit the main point with most power conditioners, they are current limiting.
If one is serious about getting the cleanest power supply, forget about expensive power regeneration devices and just go powering from a DC power. With proper design this will provide all the current a highend audio system will ever need and is completely decoupled from the grid and the associated noise and interference.
Let's discuss a solution that takes your idea of dedicated line to the next level and having your own power source.
I run my system using AC supplied by two AC inverters. A 3000w sustained and 5000w peak Pure Sine wave inverter runs the power to the analogue amplifiers. Then a 1000w Pure Sine Wave inverter supplies power to all the digital components.
The DC power for these inverters are drawn from a bank a 16x 120Ah LFP batteries, each capable of outputing over 200A. They are connected in parallel to support over 3200A current draw.
The 16x LFP are organised in a 4x4 matrix. Providing 4 banks of batteries, with each bank consisting of 4x LFP connected in parallel with a custom 500A flexible busbars. 4x of these battery banks joins together at the Victron Lynx 1000A busbar system to power the inverters.
The LFP batteries are kept charged using solar.
6x Victron SmartSolar 100/50 controllers are connected to 16x Sunpower Maxeon 3 400w panels to collect the solar energy during daytime.
As you can see see, this solution provides practically unlimited amounts of current that any audio system would ever require. And the solution is totally green and sustainable. The big plus is, there is absolute zero snake oil component in this solution because we know that it absolutely works! The science speaks for itself 😊🌞🌞🌞
You have it upon something I have been doing forever. My system is in a room with a dedicated line and I do most of my listening late at night with really nothing else significant operating in the house. I do however. use a synergistics research power conditioner on all the source components which does make a difference.
Is there a review coming up for those lovely bookshelves behind you ? Look fwd to it.
Nice, helpful video.
Great summary of the subject on power conditioners. I have a basic Niagra 1000 and definitely improves sound reproduction for source devices. My Musical Fedility 6S PRX Power amplifier is known not to benefit and my tests show that. Remember to also use decent Power cables, at least in the $100 range.
Your power cables in the "$100 range" connect to $0.05 a foot romex right on the other side of the plug
@@mikejulian8662 my Power cables protect interference with the low voltage signals carried by the many interconnects I use and speaker cables. Also after the Niagara removed the RF from the mains supply, the cables need shielding from further RF transmission.
I use a TrippLite Isobar plug in unit, no cable. For
Thanks for the info Jay, conditioners in most cases seem like bandaids for other problems down the power line, understandable if you have no other choice for sure. Running two dedicated lines and a nice quality receptacle for each is all you ever need. Just imagine if you ran shielded 10awg right from the panel Hahahha
Hahaha
Very interesting topic.
But very basic and important.
What is your opinion of the regenerator PS audio P20?
Good stuff Jay
I can confirm the Audioquest Niagara are an amazing improvement, even for amplifiers. I only have the 1000 model.
Wow was just researching ac line conditioners and you put out this video. Your a true mind reader bro lol.
Great video, kinda weird as I been looking into power conditioners. Thanks Jay
The most promising looking power regenerator I have seen is the PS Audio Stellar Power Plant 3, comes with a free shipping 30 day risk free trial. And in some of their UA-cam videos Paul acually explains how it works so you can figure out if you actually need one.
I was super skeptical about regenerators but tried a PS Stellar regenerator and ended up keeping it. Not a huge difference but noticeable enough that I didn’t want to send it back.
@@CaptainCrunch823 agreed. i have two PS audio regenerators - the stellar 3 for my low-power equipment (dac, &c.), and an older perfectwave powerplant 10.
This is a great topic. In my experience, power conditioners helped some of my equipment, other equipment, not noticeable. A lot of the gain of "performance/sound quality" depends on the quality of the power feed to your home. The worse it is, the more noticeable will be the improvement from the power conditioner. Some power service areas have very good steady sinusoidal AC voltage, others can be awful. If you are getting "gritty" power fed to your home, you usually won't notice it on appliances, but it can reek havoc of stereo equipment. Also, you may have ineffective grounding at your home, or at least ground loop problems inherent in your home. Power conditioners solved two problems I was having. First, on a high current high power amp (i.e. 400wpc, 4ohm, 10hz to 30khz band width). The amp does not have a soft/delayed start, so when you power up, when connected to high efficiency speakers, you get a hard pop. Similarly, powering down causes a hard pop. A great sounding older amp that I almost parted with until I ran it through a switched feature on a power conditioner. Power on still had some pop, but much less and the power down pop was completely eliminated. This was really awesome. Another problem I was having was RF hum between some components. Improving the quality of rca connectors did help some with shielding, but did not satisfactorily reduce it. Connecting components to the power conditioner removed the hum. Very quiet ground floor. Additionally, since I always run the equipment through surge protection anyway, the power conditioners provide a nice central hub to connect a lot of gear. For me, they have been great and each of them were purchased under $1k. It would seem that unless you are running extremely high power amplification, going to a 5 or 10k+ power conditioner isn't likely to be a good return on investment.
I concur...People give their opinions and do what they want, yet i tend to listen to people who work on LIVE concerts and huge clubs with monster systems, lime the Paradise Garage, Studio 54, Zanzibar, Ministry of Sound, etc..If you do not take care of the current coming into your system,it's all moot...
Hi there, what level power conditioner worked for you? The symptoms you described are exactly the sort of things I am experiencing at the moment.
I enjoyed reading your post. I live in a highrise building. I also have a high voltage power station 2 blocks away.
I use an Audioquest Power2 surge suppressor for my amps & av sources.
I have not had any audible noise thus far.
It seems like a Dedicated electricity line would make sense given my situation.
I am skeptical about
Power conditioners, although I like Audioquest products & use their cables in my av system.
Given what I said, do you have any advice?
Thanks!
@@michaels5166
Hi Michael, I have a question for you Michael.
I, like you, tend to listen to av professionals more than casual hobbyists.
I live in a 45 year old highrise building.
I purchased some used fairly high-end audio gear...a dedicated Parasound Halo amplifier, a Rotel pre/pro...Audioquest XLR (balanced) cables for my amp, pre!/pro & OPPO Blu-ray & DAC.
I also use an Audioquest surge protector.
It seems like an unnecessary expense to have a dedicated powerline for my gear.
Any thoughts about this??
Thanks,
Dave
I've been wanting to do this for quite some time. Is the recommendation to run one dedicated circuit for just the Amplifier, and use the existing power for the rest of the system?? Or while you're at it, run two dedicated lines to the same spot: one for amp, one for Pre & Sources?
Thank you. Well said. 👍
DO NOT CONSIDER A DEDICATED LINE until you check whether it will be quieter than the other lines in your house! I hired an electrician to install two dedicated lines, one for each of my two systems. I wanted to do this because my household electricity was extremely noisy according to my tester. I tested every circuit in my house plus most outlets. They ALL measured very very high in noise. My electrician had never seen such high readings. He thought a dedicated line would not improve my situation and to test it he installed a facsimile of a dedicated using spare wire. The dedicated line was just as dirty as all the other circuits. He then tested the power coming into the house, it was the source of all the noise. So do not install a dedicated line without doing something to verify that it will actually improve your situation.
The dedicated line as you say will not change the noise coming into your system's power supply. It WILL however prevent other devices (such as LED dimers, appliance motors, etc.) from introducing noise on whatever line you have your system plugged into. And this is usually found on the ground and return legs of the AC power. If it is not a dedicated line it will be sharing AC lines. Grounding loops will be virtually eliminated with a dedicated line ... and these are critical for sensitive circuits, such as those in high gain phono pre-amps. Also, look into having a pair of copper grounding rods installed into the earth outside of the dwelling. Something that is now considered code (required) in many new constructions.
Have your electrician monitor your AC line direct and then compare it to when you have other devices running, such as AC motors (furnace blower), appliances, LED dimmers, or any PCM dimmers. If he didn't ask for you to do that then I would look for another electrician.
After that, then you can consider looking into a power conditioner. The two are not synonymous. They attack different problems through different means.
excellent information.
I put a dedicated ring for my hi-fi system some 20 years ago, I was refurbing my house just after I purchased it, and I have 4 Triple outlet sockets wired in series. (UK wiring is a RING circuit that runs from the fuse board to socket outlets and back to the same fuse, instead of a Radial circuit that is from the fuse to the last socket) I have no idea if it makes a difference but I am glad I did it as my system is smooth and sweet with great clarity with a controlled and extended base that has good texture, I got this information from reading hi-fi mags over the last 35 years. The only other item that may help your system is to use DC conditioners, DC voltage can be a problem and even on a dedicated supply can exist.
I have very good experience with Naim gear. One thing you should know about Niam is, they need to left on all the time . Every time you switch it off it takes a week to regain its top performance. And, Naim gear absolutely does not work with conditioners and p-regeneration devices. Definitely the sound will alter, but it will take away the PRAT factor Naim gear is know for.
Extremely important to leave on if you can.I had a British intergrated amp that was only turned off maybe less than 10 times in 20 years! That mostly due to a storm or power outage ! The amp died last year unfortunately 😂!
During the day my sound system sounds like it wants to distort the sound while during the night it sounds so much better and this is something that I've learnt along as time goes on. This happens on a DENON AVR-3808 straight to the wall AC outlet without a power conditioner or line filter. My thoughts for a dedicated electrical AC outlet? Before I'd to anything like that I'd be checking with an oscilloscope, before the circuit breaker board (basically straight off the meter) and thereafter the circuit board to see the difference and also when appliances are running together just to see if the oscillation frequency changes. Then you can decide on what's best for you, what works for you because every system is so different👍
Terrific video jay! For those lucky enough to be able to install a dedicated line or multiple lines this should be a mandatory start for any serious system. If you can get multiple separate lines it would be beneficial for say one for each monoblock amps and than one for the digital or source side. I have had good luck with audience adept power conditioners for small source and headphone gear but not so much for my big power amp. It sounded like it was being restricted. I would be curious about audioquest lower Niagara line (1200l for comparisons with my audience adept. Thanks!
My thought is that the power line as been through thousands of houses before it gets to your house and its a known fact that it is heavily polluted when you receive it. I can see a dedicated line would stop any interference from your house going on the line but its like trying to close the stable door when the horse as already bolted. A dedicated line from the Power station now I could see great value in that. Any thoughts
@@Justin-fy7xk i. I'll give my thoughts. FWIW, I am a retired low-volt electronic technician, former SoundStage reviewer (like 20 years ago, but some of my reviews are still out there) and a former audio shop owner. Anyway, the power comes from a grid, not through a line that goes thru thousands of houses. Your house's power begins at the step-down transformer you are hooked up to. Recall that there is no physical contact of the wiring going into the transformer and the wiring leaving it, it works by magnetic induction. Any other homes on that transformer's line can add noise. It may be a few or dozens depending on where you live. I'll go so far as to say that some of the mains noise also comes from inside your home. Appliances, switch mode power supplies, LED lights, etc all inject noise into your home's power mains. So, the question. Do you need a PLC? The first step is to get a power noise measuring meter like an Entech or a Stetzerizer and see if you actually have a mains noise problem. Every house has some degree of internally generated noise which can be mitigated with a few plug in devices rather than an expensive PLC. My power is pretty clean. I live in a community of homes- no businesses, factories, etc., but if you're in a older place, a congested, city, etc. It may be quite different. Hence the necessity of buying a meter and doing your own measurements. Good listening!
@@michaelmasztal7871 Thanks for sharing. I still dont think a power conditioner or power regenerator is needed to clean up the mains because when the ac gets convererted to dc it gets rectified and all the noise on it goes and you are left with clean mains,
Thank you!
When I was having my theater built, I had 2 20amp lines run to a pony panel - really made a difference in the quality of the sound and less wear on components.
Less wear? How would you even detect wear on electronics? Usually time is what gets to the caps.
Marcus - I would suspect that poor fluctuating voltage would have an adverse impact on caps?
Jay, Great point plus a dedicated line it's much cheaper then most power regenerators, as far as a power conditioner I don't see that making an improvement. it will help it regards to spikes and surges but the electronics in the conditioner will probably lead to additional noise. also would like to add normally a house has 2 phases coming in. When I added a dedicated line in my house I took it from the phase that didn't have the air conditioner compressor and refrigerator. you want to stay away from the phase that power motors.
A dedicated line is a line tapped directly to the Utility company’s primary lines, has its own dedicated step down transformer, and its own non-shared secondary line into the customer’s home. This would require you to get a separate Utility meter for this service drop and pay for this entire upgrade. You also need a dedicated ground installed at your home for this service drop.
Adding an additional breaker and a new line from your panel board is far from “dedicated” and electrically is no different. You might have benefited from this upgrade because your electrician might have used a lower gauge wire, the path to the service entry might be shorter therefore slightly less Voltage drop, your new path to the “noisy” household electronics might be longer now therefore more of that electrical contamination is dissipated in cable losses until makes it to your amplifier. So everyone’s mileage will vary depending on the above situations.
But in no way or means, you are getting dedicated power, “clean” from electrical noise contamination from the rest of your household electronics and whoever else is sharing the same Utility owned step down transformer. Overhead lines can extend up to 300 feet with acceptable Voltage drop. Underground lines can be extended easily to double that or more. So all those homes within those distances share the same secondary lines.
It is another argument how relevant clean or dirty power is to a power amplifier with a well designed power section. All that noise is filtered out and stocked in the capacitors after the rectifier.
For reference, I have designed distribution and transmission lines in multiple states/utilities, engineered, designed, reviewed and commissioned gigawatts of electrical energy generators including energy storage systems.
Spot on my friend. It would cost a lot more than $700 to install another independent power circuit from what he is describing or wanting to achieve.
But hell people do believe in it.
Before installing a new line, try to figure out what else is sharing the line/circuit and unplug/move them or turn them off while you're listening to your stereo. Also, all appliances in your kitchen shouldn't be a problem as all electrical lines/circuits in the kitchen (except for lighting) are not shared with anything else in the house (electrical code requirement).
I would hear occasional hissing through my headphones late at night. I discovered that is was the fridge kicking in and out, even though the fridge was not on that line. Power conditioners on the front end solved that issue. Everyone’s experiences may be different.
@@ramsaybolton9099 My last house had the same issue, the fridge thermostat kicking in caused a click through the amp. Very frustrating. In my new house there are also random clicks heard through the amp and I don't know what it is. Even more frustrating
I appreciate very much your reviews. Very well argued and with a lot of common sense.
Regarding the power conditioners, have you ever tried a power plant? Paul Gowen says there's a fundamental difference between the two, in the favour of power plant.
Interesting topic. As I have had a lot of experience with mains wiring for audio, thought I’d add something here of value. Completely agree that a dedicated mains supply is more important than a power conditioner. There’s not much point in trying to condition an unsatisfactory mains supply when you can correct that at source. I consider the mains as ‘front end’, like a CD player or record deck or microphone in a studio. The mains power supply is a source and can have a profound effect on an audio system. And it powers all the audio equipment, so it needs to be good with a low noise floor if possible. We can’t do anything about the mains supply from the substation transformer but we can implement a dedicated circuit for the Hi Fi like recording studios do. I do actually use an isolation transformer by Ben Duncan. And it works well along with the dedicated mains supply. However, it works much better when it is hard wired in: via the mains distribution board to an isolator and direct into the transformer and from there non switched sockets from the transformer for plugging in the audio equipment. Using non switched outlets is better than switched and hard wiring is the best, if it can be done! There is a compromise to be made by the fact that the impedance will be raised by having an isolation transformer and therefore can affect the bass end of the spectrum a little which is why on power amplifiers the transformer needs to be at least say 1kva. (Also it’s worth noting that high quality power amplifiers are designed with very good internal power supplies to get the most out of the audio electronics.) On my audio system the improvement in the subtlety of the music makes it worth the compromise of just a slight ‘bass depth loss’. So it’s worth it here in my case but, of course, each case will be different!
Thanks for your comments
I am trying to determine if a dedicated electrical line to my av system is worth the investment.
I have a new Parasound Halo amplifier, a new Rotel preamp/ processor & Totem Tibe Mini Tower Speakers.
I use Audioquest XLR ( balanced) Cables that I use to connect the amp to the pre/pro. I use AQ Rocket 33 speaker cables to biwire them.
I also use the latest model Audioquest surge suppressor.
Is it worth the $500. for an electrician to put in a dedicated line IYO?
Or is that money better spent somewhere else.
Do you think getting a dedicated line will make an Appreciable Difference in my overall sound of my system?
I use Audioquest XLR Cables that run from my amp to my pre/pro
I also use AQ biwire speaker cables.
I have an AQ surge suppressor.
I have No Audible Noise Anywhere in my av system.
My av system is in my livingroom.
The circuit breaker box is about 50 feet away from my av system in my kitchen closet.
I am definitely an audio buff on a budget.
I was curious if you have any suggestions ...
If I hire an electrician, I want to get the biggest bang for my buck for around 4-5 bucks max.
Thanks,
David
@@davidstein9129 Hi, people can spend money on power conditioners but apart from surge protection it's better to get the mains supply right to start with. A decent mains supply is a very cost effective approach to getting the best out of all your equipment. Do you know what type of circuit your hi fi is on at
the moment? Do you know the total CSA of the wiring conductors of the mains circuit? Check at the mains what kind of MCB or breaker it's on.... A certain size cable has to be specified to the electrician because they inevitably will install a smaller size than is needed to get the sound system to sound really good. Check and see if you can find out what the main supply is that's feeding you hi fi. I may later check out some typical circuits used in USA as typical circuits for sockets here in UK are ring circuits...
@@davidstein9129 the person below mention using 10 awg and that needs to be minimum size of cable, even better if you could use 8 awg which is about equivalent to 10 mm CSA. It's a simple circuit which can be run direct into un switched sockets block, eg 6 way, 8 way or 10 way . Using non switched sockets will also improve sound along with dedicated mains supply.
On my system, I only put a surge protector strip in case of thunderstorms and current interruptions. Great video!
Power strips don't protect against lightning damage. Power surges, yes, but not lightning.
@@solarfall2728 I didn't write power strip, I did write surge protector strip! It is a power bar fitted with a surge suppressor and conditioning protection. They have a limit on how much punishement they can take but most of the time there's an interuption or a spike in the AC line, they are designed to absorb the excess energy into a shunt thus protecting our precious and costly electronics.
@@yvesboutin5604 Let me be more specific. You said this.
"On my system, I only put a surge protector strip in case of thunderstorms and current interruptions."
Thunder is the sound associated with lightning. Whatever you call it, power strip, surge suppressor or any other similar term, it will not protect against lightning. You're only options are to unplug the equipment, or cover them under some type of insurance policy.
US homes built before 1974 have aluminum wiring and cheap breakers- doesn't move juice as good as modern copper. Insist on 10 AWG wire from the box to your new sockets or you'll get the cheap code 14 AWG. Use premium wall outlet
I learnt something new. Well said and also Set up affiliate links of the products
If you're in a rental property and can't implement his tip here: 6:58, e.g. then a simple alternative is to work out the number of electrical circuit rings in your property and identify if there's one ring that will allow you to remove all devices except your hifi. Even if it's just a temporary removal for one listening session, it's worth doing.
I agree. I want to be happy with the basic sound quality before i try to enhance it with power conditioners or listening room wall, ceiling & corner bass-trap treatments.
If i sit right up close to my speakers, almost inbetween them & angle them in directly at my ear height, or place them side by side & sit < 1 metre in front of the inward angled pair but find i'm not at all happy with the sound... (like said on this video, i have tried this just to see how my room effects the sound from my normal listening sofa & it deffinately does) ...then i fail to see how listening room accoustic treatments will improve things or power conditioners improve things much if the sound source is not right & unpleasant in the 1'st place from a position where room reflections don't enter into the equation.
There is a widespread total misconception that our equipment sits on the end of wires & recieves electricity as if the mains wiring is recieving power like water from taps when you run a bath or a tap piped from the house's water main & this couldnt be further from the truth. Our equipment effectively sits inbetween the 'live' & the 'neutral' wires of the house's mains wiring & distance from where the electricity comes into the house or the plugs placement along the wiring is 100% irrelevant, unlike water taps who's pressure drops with distance & height from the incoming water main. This means that appliances with half-wave rectifiers like drills, hair dryers, fridges, heating system's motors & a host of other non-hi fi appliances can detrimentally effect the whole house's power by reflecting it's created distortion of the electrical A.C. sine wave back onto our mains line & even from the house next door or houses further along up to a point, all depending on how the local voltage step-down power transformer routing is feeding a number of houses, but you'll only notice it on hi-fi reproduction or mains powered radio or on cheaper TV pictures. Pity they never run an independent spur from the localised power transformers & into each individual house but they never do, they daisy-chain the mains along the houses up to a point of X number of houses before the next localised mains voltage stepdown transformer takes over for houses further along. All that is why (i.m.firm.o.) a dedicated power line just for your equipment, resistance slugged or 1:1 transformer isolated from the rest of your wiring, will help enormously or at least noticeably but definately worth doing for peace of mind, esp' because of half-wave rectifiers in our own house. Non hi-fi appliances put no expense into making sure their rectifiers & motors or active components dont reflect distortion back into the powerline, there's normally nothing beyond a simple supressor to stop your hi-fi or tv or battery radio buzzing away because of active components transmitting EMF radio wavelength noise via air- transmitted noise. There's one bad lawn mower somewhere along the line of the 9 houses that my house sits on, that when i hear it going, it causes my stereo to buzz away like bees inside the speaker, this is not being recieved into my amp through the air... (for many decades, our power & preamps are all protected from recieving & amplifying radio signals & amplify them through our speakers) ...but by that particular bad lawn mower putting a gross distortion back onto it's power line as it sits between the same 'live' & 'neutral' wires that also feed my house & will cause all tv's or hi-fi's connected to the same daisy chained wiring line along the road.
Idealy, we'd run a single power line directly onto the local voltage step-down transformer's secondary from our houses, there's one nearby all house groupings in residential & city areas, even if you havent noticed it, it's usually inside at least a 20 × 20 ft area protected with high steel wired fence & locked gate or simllar around the giant sized voltage step-down transformer inside. Shame it's illegal to do that. We've our local step down transformer diagonally across the footpath in front of my house, & i'd have to tunnel under the footpath like some dude from "The Colditz Story" but 2'nd best is a dedicated power spur isolated from your incoming mains.
This is the most informative video on the subject on UA-cam.
Great Advice Jay. The electrician route is a must, I agree with the others. I also have a few Panamax 1500s with battery extenders + CV1 cards. The MB saved my butt countless times during power outages + conditioning.
I finally ran a dedicated 20 amp line with aluminum armoured (for shielding) 10/2 copper solid core cable to a Furutech outlet in which I plugged in my integrated and an active sub. The dynamics improved even though I was still running the TV and all the audio sources off a cheap Monster surge protector plugged to a regular separate outlet. Recently purchased a Furman PST-8D to replace the old Monster.
TV picture seems cleaner but digital audio sounds..well, way more digital as in shrill. My records on the other hand never sounded better. Bummed yet pleased? I'm hoping a break in period will smooth things out.... Or get a divorce and get what I've always wanted, a Bryston Bit 20. Initially made by Torrus, Bryston bought the company because it does exactly what it says it does: your own isolated clean power transformer in your living room with built in protection and faster access to massive power swings for unrestricted dynamics! As you might suspect, the club membership is prohibitive.
Great tip bud!! Back 40 years ago, we would say that to our "audiophile clients". Also, here's another tip, do a listening session on jazz, classical, something not too hard and loud, and also records you know well. Try a session at 5 pm, and same session at 10 pm...sounds different. Why? At 5 pm EVERYONE IS HOME using the computer, dishwasher, stove, fridge is open like it's an air conditioner...all these factors affect the noise level in your line. I remember a client had some medical grade power transformer (how he got it...no clue!) but this thing was the size of a small bar fridge!!!! LMAO, it also ran on 240v....but he had McIntosh gear from A to Z. On Electro-voice Patricians!!! Wow. Simply...Wow!!! when money isn't a problem...LOL Cheers and great vid!
Nice vid:) i did try out my first power conditioner and the experiance was bad:( i bought the isotek evo3 aquarius, plugged it in, first thing I noticed was weaker bass and not as extended. Tought at first it was only my head that played some tricks, so I left it in my systems for 3 days to get used to the sound. After 3 days i inplugged everything and straight into the wall outlets, and wow, my music came to life again. But whis was my first power conditioner, so I cant speak for them all
That observation on Naim stuff sounds interesting. Hard to believe though. If one of the Naim power cord connects one sub-standard outlet that can introduce some microphonic effect to pollute your power supply....
I have always installed a dedicated circuit ground it properly and install it from it's own consumer unit .Nothing else gets plugged into this circuit.
My new music room a separate building will also benefit from a ballanced mains unit on that circuit installed next to the consumer unit .
that scenario you described at your store was probably mostly due to it being a audio store with hundreds of devices and lights plugged into the circuit with who knows how much noise running through the lines. I doubt your customer would experience the same drastic sound quality change at home.
Long time viewer here, if you have the chance give the Ansuz Mainz8 series a try. It could change your view on power conditioner. It is definitely on the pricier side but even their entry-mid level stuff can make a huge difference IMO
Great topic and thank you to bring it up. Let me try to understand it.
Like any other computer device(your DAC or Amplifier ) the electrical flux (voltage)has to be stable in order to minimize errors. (anyone trying to overclock a computer know this)Is there a "Noise calculator" or a more calculated way, because all homes are differently affected
Btw Happy new year!
hi, i want to know what you think about ps audio power plant p5 or p12 ?
So what do you plug everything into? A power strip?
Hello, what do you think about the PS Audio Power Plant equipment? Are they really worth?
At the moment I'm looking forward to this or a Niagara from Audioquest to supply current to my equipment.
I had problems with the line as my source would glitch for just a sec with fridge coming on. I changed the receptacle itself first this all cleared up. Good recetacles are tighter and connection is better. $3.99 fixed. Start there. I'm an electrcian/technician. so I recommend that you get help if you are not sure how to do this. Then you may want to add a cct dedicated for your audio..If you need more than i cct install a split plug which will give you double the power and can be installed for the very little extra cost.
Did you ever try to change faze when plugging things into a power conditioner?
I agree 100%. Thanks.
Does the Niagara 1200 get you some of the benefits of the larger models or is this more similar to cheaper conditioners?
My experience from the 1000 model is very positive. It is very possible that it is a better value for money than the bigger models even if they perform better considering the cost difference.
Instead of installing a dedicated line, can UPS also do same work?
It all depend of two factors if it is working or not .
1 - If your equipment have well made filters in the power supply then
mostly you will not experience any noticable difference .
2 - If your power supply line in the house / appartment is relative noise free
( no heavy industry close to your main line ) then again you will not notice anything .
It is very much equipment and source power quality dependent .
Where I live the power lines are extremely bad and filled with lots of spikes and noise .
A real nightmare to eliminate this in my little home studio / HighEnd equipment .
My personal problem number one is this noise combined with NO grounding at all .
I have set up ground and grounded my equipment myself and it helped a lot .
I have two computers connected to my studio .
One laptop that suffered so much from the main power lines noise and spikes that
I ended up using an isolation transformer and filter .
It worked but it have a professional USB external soundcard where ground is
not same potential as the other equipments ground level so I had to level this
out by using a ground ' lifter ' and it worked gone was noise .
My big computer on the other hand really doesn't care about the noise and spikes
because the filters in the power supply simply phase this out very effectively .
My two Eq's I use for recording they have almost no filter and suffered too so
my solution was to change the filter in the powersupplies and that did the trick .
My 3 power amplifiers they also doesn't care at all , because the filters simply
just works so effective .
Now my biggest problem ended up being my second Firewire Professional
soundcard / ADC - DAC it have same ground level problem as the other one .
Simply connect the ground to the main ground loop will make everything noisy .
Solution was to connect the ground in paralell with the USB soundcard / ADC - DAC .
They ended up on same ground level and gone was noise when connected back
to the main ground loop , but it requires a seperate cable from the ADC -DAC to
the ground connection on the amp and down to the chassic on the main computer .
( keep in mind I use a ground lifter on the UBS sound card / ADC -DAC and the
lifted ground is routed with the cable )
Yes that solution works just nice ( sometimes it defy any logic )
I also have a big Tube / valve Guitar Amplifier and when record / play on that I have
to wire up a seperate ground cable and connect it to the computers ground .
Result , totally silence .
My only remaining problem is a Guitar effects pedal that was as good as
impossible to lift to correct ground potential / level .
result - when I touch the strings and at same time have my feet on the floor
it make a terrible noise .
But I kind of solved it by simply use thick socks .
When I wear those thick socks there is no noise sound from the pedal .
( sometimes the obscure tricks seems to work just fine )
Also a thing as a simple cable can pick up noise as hell .
My guitar cable if I just toss it on the floor in front of the computer will
pick up extreme amount of noise ( yes it is a HQ shielded cable ) but
if I move it just 10 cm away it be gone .
All cables in the system is carefully routed around and away from potential
noise sources .
This is a real trial and error thing to do because sometimes it doesn't comply
with any logic for where to put them .
Even my big computer screen suddenly suffered from shadows in the picture .
Well the signal /VGA cable run beside the power cable to my 18 inch Powered
subwoofer and by moving it a little away then picture was perfect .
Funny enough the subwoofer was totally unaffected by the Screen / VGA cable .
( No noise there and it's 5000 W Amplifier remain silent )
Getting rid of power line Noise and ground noise and such can really be a pain
in the A............ s .
We all use different equipment and different cables ans setups ect ect , and
what is working for one may not work for another person .
This is the strange world of HiFi - HighEnd - Music Studio - Musician - ect ,
headache in a nutshell .
There is so many strange solutions to all kinds of troubles some work for me
but wont work for you .
It all depend of individual situations and equipment and power lines , ground
cables , placement ect ect ect .
Very good video and a good explanation , I can only agree on your thoughts as
seen from your perspective with your setup and equipment ect .
I am shure it can help some fellow entusiasts out there .
Keep it up : )
Ps - USB power conditioners can be very effective if your Pc / ADC -DAC is too noisey .
I used some years ago a PCI card power conditioner to remove PCI bus noise .
YES it worked in my old setup but not my new .
Also when thinking on buying a power line power conditioner , Try see if possible
to try it out before final buying .
This way you can try several solutions and find one that work for you .
The Idear about getting a seperate Electric line / dedicated line Is what most studios
actually doing to get isolated from the rest of the lines .
This work very effectively .
( still you can get noise from outside , factories , heavy industry , bad main lines
neighbours noisy equipment , motors ect ect )
Last and very important - Remember to get a seperate ground too for your new line .
Edit - sorry for my eventually typos , im in my coffe right now : )
Hi Jay. When you talk about a dedicated line do they actually run another power line from the street or is it all done in the fuse box from just the one cable coming from the street power line?
Good video. So what I expect the conditioner to do is eliminate the AC noise. What I have in my system is a 20 amp regulatior. This is the foundation of my system. My noise floor is bottomless pit quiet. As for sound improvement I'm sure its there inherently, but I don't this the issue is so much as what you hear as what you don't hear.
I have done this. Try using a good car amplifier for home use. Works awesome! Ploblem is...you need a car battery and a charger in your home. It works. You will be amazed. We are all just audiophiles playin around. If you have some car audio layin around and extra time on your hands, go play around with it. Its fun.
With a dedicated circuit (I'll be installing a dedicated 20A line for my system when I start putting it together), would you recommend having ONLY the amplifier connected to it, or can it safely share the circuit with the other components (receiver, game consoles, projector, etc.) without having sound negatively affected?
In my experience, using one dedicated line to a UPS that runs my AVR, TV, game console, and internet router has been perfectly fine.
@@JPSurratt1986 That's what my plan ended up being once I double checked the specs on my Krell KAV-1500. It'll get its own dedicated 20A circuit and the rest of the components will be on an AVR that'll also have its own 20A circuit.