Quick answer: Yes, power cords make a difference. Without them I can’t hear any music whatsoever. This was with a properly done double blind test by the way.
Science can't explain everything but It can explain how it work. Sound related topic here is kind of chicken and egg issue ... but different power cord do affecting the sound. But those danm expensive cable are really! too much. Haha
Robert, I'm so glad that Gene talked about the crap home wiring in most home. I wonder who many system installers pro and/or DIY add up or measure the load placed on the power circuit. Surely damn few. I'm considering running a dedicated 10ga 30amp circuit to my system just to be safe. 15 amps add up quick.
@@shannonwilliams6623 if Danny is such a badass then why doesn't he work at or for any one of the audiophile businesses such as let's say PS Audio?? Or Stereophile? Danny was founded by a UA-cam beggar who literally begged his viewers for money because he had to move. Has his daughter crawling all over him during his videos. Danny is an arrogant man who is nothing but a snake oil salesmen who uses his channel to pedal is products period...
I run stock power cords on my full system but because I wanted to test for myself I put an audioquest NRG 4 on my main speaker amp (emotiva xpa2 gen 2). On a completely unrelated note I have for sale one 3ft Audioquest NRG 4 ;)
You would think a 5 or 10 thousand dollar amp would have a sufficient power cord from the factory and if it made a difference wouldn't they include that in the price of the amp
That is absolutely correct ! You buy a Ferrari and it comes with cheap fuel lines ? People who can afford things are not as smart as you think ? Fools and money never stay together !
Is everything really measurable? Take 10 violins, play open "A" (assume they are tuned) all will measure A440. I guarantee without a shadow of a doubt all 10 will sound differently.
Everything is not measurable, but you know what is? Power cable, speaker wire, and cables. Astounding that in 2020, we are still having this discussion and snake oil still putting other people's kids through college. As the man said "nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people"
@@oldb3139 my point was all the violins will measure the same but sound different. I believe there are too many people saying different cables sound differently. Unfortunately, I am not able to buy enough of them to do side by side comparisons and stay married... That said they may sound different but measure different as well. For example, the two Kimber speaker cables the Audioholic likes both sound and measure differently.
You could measure the difference with the right equipment. An instrument does not play a constant single tone like a tone generator does. They all color the sound to a degree. This is why a string intrument sounds different than a saxaphone or a piano or whatever. And each instrument will have a sound that is unique to itself. This is why when you go to buy one you play several different ones to see how they sound. And it can be measured if you can see the spectrum of sound it is putting out. The dominant tone will be 440 but there will be many tones around it. Pretty much everything you can hear (and can't hear) can be measured. Many of just might not know the technical term for it. If you think something sounds warm, bright, muddy or whatever it can be measured and compared to something else. And someone can tell you exactly what you were hearing that gave you that impression if you did indeed hear it. If it can't be measured it was probably your brain tricking you. Not everyone hears the same way and even something as simple as your mood can effect how you percieve sound. Humans are very poor measuring devices lol.
Yes it is measurable. It's called harmonics and every violin has variation there even if the fundamental tone is the same. Proper measurement devices are way more sensitive than human hearing. Do not trust manufacturers that don't show measurements (or at least extensive specs).
Surge protection is a good way to save expensive audio equipment during thunderstorms with lightnings nearby. Better to switch off any equipment from powerline. But if you did not do it those surge protectors can protect from overvoltage surges.
Must be most probably related to your expectations bias. But as Gene says, DBT listening is almost impossible with power chords/conditioners, that lead to psychoacoustics/Placebo effect.
@@vintageflanker7096 False. Not only can it be heard which I have A/B tested if you review the data testing by Shunyata on how it does effect audio and signal improvements you will see why their products are used in the Medical testing fields then migrated to Audio.
@@garykarczewski6678 So you're telling me power that traveled hundreds of miles through antiquated power lines, then reached your 40 year old panel, with 40 year old breakers, then traveled a few more feet through your 40 year old wiring to your equipment is magically going to get fixed by an expensive power cable? Do people really believe this garbage?
I switched to extra crunchy peanut butter and it raised my sound stage. I’ll have to do a side by side comparison it seems to be make a hissing noise now.
An explanation that made sense to me (from Hans Beekhuyzen) is when a high current device like your power amp draws power a electromagnetic field surrounds the cord which is modulated by the power demands and can induce noise on your your low level interconnects even though they are shielded unless great care is taken to separate them and, this can be difficult with many devices in your rack, this is why a well shielded heavy gauge power cable can make a difference. Please comment.
@@DisconnectedAudio agreed 100%, saw his UA-cam channel (Hans Beekhuyzen) and sensed that he’s more like a newscaster reading from a teleprompter rather than a reviewer or audiophile. Basically, Hans and a couple of others are just clueless but useful idiots to brands that sponsored their channel. Very fortunate that such misinformation are spread even given their limited audience and channel followers
Very rare that can occur if you use shielded interconnects. Virtually nothing will get through to double braided double foil shielded coax like Belden 1694A. Also, use XLR anytime you can and try to route power leads away from speaker cables and interconnects. I've never found a need to use shielded power cables.
@@Audioholics correct, use XLR for long runs, fuss-free and no worries of interferences. Much cheaper and more effective than those exotics cables that cost a kidney yet does nothing. Acoustics principles are known and proven scientifically for so long that it’s sad that unscrupulous sellers use disinformation to mislead the general public.
at 10:11 Did you misstate the effect of smaller gauge for longer cable length? I would expect resistance losses to increase with lighter gauge, not increase. Please clarify!
I own an NRG-2 myself and I really like it. However, I never expected it to do anything for the sound quality of my system. I bought it because I wanted a well-made, high-quality power cable made from quality materials that would last. That's why you buy a replacement/after-market power cable, not because it will improve the quality of the sound you hear at all. (Oh, and I bought my used for around $22)
Im running a Krell KAV400xi integrated and the manual says to NOT use a 3rd party cord. It came with a 6 foot 14 awg power cord. I needed a shorter one so I purchased a 14 awg UL certified cord for 13 bucks. Spent the other $287 on actual vinyl so I had something to listen to on my system.
Gene is the benchmark reviewer for me very very knowledgable and tells it exactly as he see’s it Not trying to sell anything and not trying to spread the bullshit to appease fancy rip off brand owners All power to you and THANK YOU !! very very refreshing 👍
So you're telling me power that traveled hundreds of miles through antiquated power lines, then reached your 40 year old panel, with 40 year old breakers, then traveled a few more feet through your 40 year old wiring to your equipment is magically going to get fixed by an expensive power cable? Do people really believe this garbage?
Please talk about ground loops. I have one that I isolated to my cable box cable. I put a noise filter on the cable to suppress it but is there a better way to eliminate it , instead of just covering it up? I would love to learn more....Thanks for teaching us so much, Gene!
Thanks I appreciate the input. I have standard cables, have ocationally been thinking about upgrading, but I agree it is hard to think of any rational reason why they would be better. Still a few things crossed my mind when listening to you: 1. The notion that if you cannot measure a difference, there is no difference. I recently made a CD player upgrade. There are plenty of small details added to how particular insturments in the orchestra sound which makes the listening more inspiring. I very much doubt you can measure anything to detect this. 2. The idea that only immediately switching from one set-up to another would give a fair comparison. You only get a superficial view of the overall scope of the sound this way. Listening carefully to how different instruments sound in certain passages, how the echo rings out when the music stops etc. There is plenty of details that can be captured when comparing different set-ups even if some time elapses in between. Finally, assuming that you are right, it must be concluded that the power cord companies´ marketing is very successful since they are able to sell expensive products that have essentially zero functional value.
Gene - Would you be able to debunk some myths about power conditioners? Things to look for and avoid? Why some people think power conditioners degrade the sound quality and who is the right candidate for one? I use a commercial grade Middle Atlantic PDU that includes surge and spike protection, as well as EMI filtering. While it doesn't "condition" the power, it provides me the protection from my power line.
I will do a video on power conditioners. Long story short, I use them for power protection and to have a common connection point for ALL equipment in a rack. No magic.
@@Audioholics thats a great topic, i have 2 power conditioners 1 is a Panamax M5400-PM for all my media stuff in the LivingRoom and a Furman PL-PRO DMC for my Mini Home Recording studio. I have had a couple power outages and the only thing ive noticed is the devices turning back on immediately upon the power coming back up. Another small issue is that my Panamax does make some Grounding hum but it doesn't affect what i have connected to it. I do like that it tells me on 1 gauge that i have 123 volts and the otherside tells me the amp hours all my devices are using.
I have an old APC S Type power conditioner S15 with 1,500VA of uninterruptible power supply. The thing is a beast and I cannot believe it’s still going for over a grand for one... while I paid $250 with shipping 10 years ago. Don’t remember why it was so cheap though, I tend to buy “broken” things and repair them, but I don’t remember in this case.
Thank you for a very honest video and technical explanations !! Now, with all that has been said, what do you think about power conditionners ? Do they make a difference or is this snake oil also? I live in a very old appartment buiding and I use a Monster Power HTS 1600 mostly as a power surge and noise suppressor. Do you think this is enough or should I upgrade it since I have, in all, around 10k$ of equipment plugged into it? Thank you again !!
I bought a hospital grade power cable because it's 14 AWG and also the wall end of the cord has a really nicely shaped plug that's easy to grab. I think it was $12.00 US.
Romex from the breaker to the outlet, with a 500mA fuse feeding the unit (pre-amp). What the hell can 3-feet of "special" cable do in between? Fairy dust does the same thing.
Well, Gene is correct with one exception, he literally mentions the exceptions and says to disregard it, I work with multiple rack components both at work and home and behind the these the interference between cables is massive, and most high-speed network and server cables have some shielding so, I do use similar cables at home, nothing too fancy, many reputable cables manufacturers make SJT UL-certified cables for 2 to 10 bucks per feet that can be used to reduce noise, and obviously this only applies if the system has multiple devices on the same rack with cable management, as having 2 or 3 cables away from each other will not cause any problems. So in summary buying spending hundreds of dollars of magical cable topologies is a form of snake oil, having reputable cable brand cables on a component rack will reduce "noise"/ interference from component to component.
Any noise induced or otherwise in the AC mains voltage going into your gear will be filtered by the rectification and filtration of the unit's DC power supply. PERIOD. Amir over at Audio Science Review shows this in some recent videos.
@@aussie8114 Sure, use shielded AC cables. You won't hear it but if ti makes you feel better, fine But these people ("audiophiles") believe magic faeries are sprinkling dust on expensive audio cables and it makes them sound better, even though they measure exactly the same as a $1 cable.
@@aussie8114 thats audiophile nonsense. That the whole idea that the really expensive systems are more "highly resolving" than my medium priced system that I build is just nonsense. What exactly is it that my preamp or amplifier is failing to amplify that a $50,000 amplifier is amplifying, and that humans with tin ears can actually hear or perceive? Is my amplifier forgetting to amplify a cymbal crash? Is it failing to amplify a few bass guitar notes every once in awhile? Is it doing it on purpose? Like out of spite?
High-speed network and sever cables have some shielding? No, they don't, actually. That's almost always all just UTP. Unshielded Twisted Pair. They rely on the number of twists per foot withing the cable itself (on pairs of wires) to cancel out signal crosstalk among the cables. Almost no networking cables are ever shielded, with very few exceptions. Now, you can get shielded network cable, of course (STP) but unless you are in a VERY harsh, industrial-type environment with extremely high levels of EMI/RFI, that's not necessary at all and you are just paying for something that doesn't give you any actual benefit.
When you say lower gauge you mean 14 gauge vs 18 gauge, right? Many components came with 18 gauge, 6 foot iec cable. Just wondering if 14 gauge, same as 15 amp line, would be better as an "upgrade"?
Gene, for the first time I disagree with you, I haven't bought expensive cables, but US$20 bulk cables from Alliexpress and the sound totally changed, more transparent, better positioning, more control in the low zone and more musicality. This time I affirm it with certainty because I have lived it.
Back in the day when I was experimenting with power cables I found that some makes of stock cable were more musical than others. You may have got lucky with the ones you bought. Snake oil doesn't exist at this level......
I really really want to buy the top of the line audioquest cable just to take the outer case of it and put it in to a regular cable and give it to someone who already own a lower end audioquest cable to see if they will notice a big difference .....
I'm going to get burned alive now 😂 I am so sorry everyone! I was so skeptical on this subject that I had to try this for my self. I bought some "HiFi" power cords. Not expensive, but alot bigger gauge than the standard cables. I have done serious a-b testing, and had no reason to wanting to justify my purchase "not that expensive" I am running a Marantz sr8012 bi-amped to a Rotel RMB1585 power amp. 5.1 system with Arendal Speakers. All pieces of my equipment got a new power cord. Again I am so sorry. But I can hear a difference. This is not placebo. I have done A-B testing with multiple non audio interested people and all could hear a difference. I can't argue with science, nor am I an expert on this subject. I do trust me ears though. Please don't be to harsh!
Lunatic! Haven't you heard that we have decided that power cords don't make any difference!? And who cares what YOU hear, as Gene said, you're clearly deluded. Having said that, I would never go back to the stock power cords, they suck all the life out of the music... but don't tell anyone I said that 😉
@@Audioholics not necessarily. His old cables might be bad/malfunction/broken. i can confirm from my experience that if cable is not capable for some reason to deliver current properly sound looses quality. In my case level of sound in right channel was dropping
Great video Gene. Is there a benefit to using shielded power cables? Not to shield the power line but to reduce emissions from the power cord to nearby equipment (provided the shield is grounded at the plug end).
It's not a bad idea if that's a problem but just realize many shielded power cords don't meet UL due to fire safety issues. Personally keep power cord away from line level stuff and you will be ok.
The end of the world argument against audiophile power cable: if power cables make a difference in sound quality do you think high end hi-fi products manufacturers would spend a lot of money in R&D to then sell you their stuff with shitty power cables that make their effort worthless? Wouldn't it be like Mercedes Benz selling you a brand new cars with retreaded tires on it?
ok, GEne and the energy conditioners? I noticed an improvement in the audio when I removed my steup from the conditioner and plugged it straight into the socket
Just saw a Audioquest cable manufacturing demo her on YT... Hillarious... they invented cold welding they say... ( crimping) 😂😂😂 sadly comment are disabled on their channel... wonder why...
This is what I’ve always thought intuitively. I recently heard another science-based testing site. The only thing he said that gave me pause is that the low voltage signal interconnects can possibly pick up electromagnetic interference if put in close proximity to a power cord passing high current power. So my interconnects from preamp to power amp would not go through a transformer. This is assuming that the cables are not properly shielded. Is there any validity to that?
If you run your high impedance interconnect cable alongside the AC power cord carrying a high current, there will be some interaction. But the interconnect cable is shielded, and that will block the interaction. I don't think you can buy unshielded RCA to RCA cables. You would have to make them up yourself from pieces of wire.
I wired my entire house myself. If I were to plug in my equipment in my living room, there is at least 60’ of 12/2 Romex wires to the breaker. Yet 2-3’ of special wire will give me a better Sound? It only makes a difference if the power cord was 14/2 or smaller gauge.
Thank you for discussing this topic! I am a metallurgist and quality assurance engineer, also a lifelong audiophile seeking equipment with high value/quality per the investment. The only time I have replaced a power cord is when the installation required a longer or shorter cable, or one time I noticed a power cord was getting warmer than expected, (damaged). I have had great success with replacement power cords in every configuration and length from Monoprice and Amazon, they are quite inexpensive. I usually opt for 12 gauge if available, considering the wiring in my home is mostly 14 gauge between the breaker box and wall outlets. Best wishes to all-
I would have been the last person to believe in power cords as well. That said, I run a pretty nice headphone system around my gaming pc. I have a discreet DAC and separate solid state and tube amps. I purchased a reasonably priced Furman power conditioner, mostly for better protection and sure enough, it didn't really make any difference to the sound. Later, I bought a handful of $30 'audiophile' power cords just to try out. I put one on each audio component and the pc and then left them all alone. It wasn't day and night, but I absolutely noticed that the solid state amp was closing the gap with the tube amp. The sound stage debth was more coherent and over all sounded more real. The tube amp didn't seem to benefit much. I brought out my older DAC/amp all in one that I felt didn't have the resolution of my newer gear. With the new power stuff, it also seemed more on par with the other electronics. I am a person who didn't think power cables could make a difference and always laughed at people who did. Also, FWIW, I think AB testing is good for finding frequency response or tonality differences, but not spacial cues. I take more time to explore the 'space' of the sound and then have to be familiar with both pieces of equipment in that way to make a comparison. To my ear anyway, these kinds of spacial cues are where higher end gear duke it out, over lower end gear, since it's not that hard to achieve frequency response and resolution these days. All that said, I still wouldn't advocate expensive cables, or expect to hear a difference right out of the wall. I also can't hear any difference between my $30 and $200 interconnect cables, either.
Even if your new (expensive) power cord worked as described , this approach often results in no benefits to the system unless all other ground paths in the connected equipment can be totally isolated. An isolation transformer is not a substitute for the proper shielding or grounding of individual equipment. As G said...
Try a power cable at the level of a Nordost Valhalla V2. If you can't hear a major change in sound, then you either have hearing issues or shouldn't be considered a reviewer of audio. I understand that it doesn't make any sense, but the sound quality is what I care about. Power cable sets the tone for the entire system especially at the source.
@@ujwiersma8482 no I'm a victim of education. 6 years of Engineering school + 7 years designing electronics took the magic and mystisticm out of cables for me.
@@Audioholics Yup, seen that many times. You EE guys talk all the techno talk, but fail to explain why so many people can hear differences. BTW, as far as science goes, you don't need double blind testing. It does not matter if the person changing the power cords during a trial knows (is not blind to) what pcs are being used at the moment. As long as that person does not convey that information to the listeners.
@@ujwiersma8482 you obviously aren't well versed in psychology or science. A blind test doesn't mean you blindfold the listener. It just means they aren't aware of what DUT they are listening to. Placebo effect and expectation bias are far better indicators of the "differences" people think they hear when swapping a device that has no measurable difference.
Sonic argument aside, I don’t see anything wrong with dressing ones high end audio/video system with nice looking cables. There’s a level of psychological satisfaction that comes with that. Just don’t break the bank in your quest or if you’re a nut, who cares? I own some expensive amplifiers/equipment from Dartzeel, Burmester, Jeff Rowland & Boulder and connecting them to the wall with a cheap little black rubber PC seems like an audiophile sin. And, that will remain in the back of your mind as you try to enjoy the system. Gene, thank you for your engineering experience and insightful video! Perhaps it will help reign in some of the ridiculous audible claims made by manufacturers and reviewers.
I upgraded my power cable from a bog standard one to a £40 one from China with a Gold Plated C-079 IEC Connector. Did it improve the audio hmmmm not sure but the crackle and momentary sound drop out that sometimes occurred when adjusting the volume on my tube amp... stopped permanently !!?
Noise and dropout when adjusting the volume is due to age issues or contamination in the volume control itself. It can come and go, and tends to clear somewhat if you wind the control up and down many times. Since it's not consistent, there could seem to be a cause-effect relationship with the new power cable if you only change it once. But you can prove to yourself that it doesn't correlate to the power cable, by going back to the old cable, then to the new cable, multiple times in succession. The bad news is that noisy volume control pots tend to get worse long-term.
Diminishing returns definitely applies here, upgrading from 20 ga. lamp cord to something heavier and maybe shielded probably makes a difference, going from that to $5000 cables, well, I'd like to see some double blind test results on that.
@@patthewoodboy Shielded cable definitely helped in my specific case of noise coming from my computer. I had ground loop hum and fixed that, but there was still noise when I moved my mouse or played more intense games. Switching to a shielded cable helped. It is still unbalanced cable though. Balanced cable probably would have eliminated the noise too.
Biases do exist, I 100% agree that placebo and confirmation bias is a real thing in audio and in many other things. Having said that, I find these 'trust the science' type videos to be slightly arrogant. Truthfully, there is a lot we know about electricity, losses and sound, but there is still a lot that we don't know. I think we should give the benefit of the doubt to some people who experiment with different power cords and hear improvements or detrimental impacts to the sound of their system. To just essentially imply that they are stupid and imagining things is a bit condescending in my opinion. There is a lot of truth to what he is saying, but its a very hardline stance. I wish he would take up the Synergistic Research challenge and fly over there and do a true double blind test with his own ears and let us know what he thinks. Sometimes people can be too smart for their own good. I've been humbled many times in my life by people and I think having a little bit of humility is a good thing, especially in audio where there haven't been billions and billions of dollars spent researching such a niche hobbyist market.
Experimenting is fine if it's done controlled. Simply swapping out power cables and doing a sighted test is highly flawed and reveals nothing but placebo. To ignore objective data to help make a purchasing decision is both foolish and arrogant. The "Synergistic Challenge" was a ruse simultaneously tied to a threat for litigation from their attorney. It was never a legitimate challenge. Nice try.
@@Audioholics Just so I fully understand, are you saying that if we used three different power cords, all UL and all 12 AWG solid high quality pure wire from the same manufacturer and not found to be limiting the current delivery in any meaningful way. If we got these cords and had their contacts treated, one with gold, the other with silver and the other with tin plating, that they would sound identical? Now again, I’m not saying one would sound better than the other, but if they measured the same electrically, do you believe it is even possible within any stretch of the imagination that they would sound different whatsoever?
@@isobutylquinoline If you tin them with a metal less conductive than copper, then resistance will increase and you can potentially have power loss and an audible difference if severe enough. If all 3 power cables have the same DC and AC resistance, then there will be no difference. Not rocket science.
@@Audioholics Gene. Your little adders of 'nice try' and 'not rocket science' and these little jabs is worrying. I like your channel and you've helped me a lot when it comes to setting up my subwoofer and I really appreciate the Star Trek stuff as well. I don't know if its the whole Synergistic Research thing, which we don't have the full story on, or maybe you've been attacked by a lot of zealots talking about how cables make a difference, but something isn't right with you recently. Maybe I just misjudged you initially and saw what I wanted to see, but the Gene from a few years ago wasn't so abrasive. If you pray, please consider praying about it. I am glad that you enjoy your sound and your system and its good that you have a channel and can share your experiences with others.
Lalalalalala I can’t hear you! I just spent $20k on power cables and it lifted a veil on the soundstage, improved detail and image the micro dynamics came to li....pffffbwahahahaa I can’t do it!
Do cigars taste different? Can you measure that? I don't smoke. I guess you could try to explain it to me but I would not truly understand until I developed my taste for them and learned the differences. Sound is the same thing. I hate cigars, cigarettes but I believe in the freedom we have to enjoy those things. If I can tell the difference then why do you care so much. Are you just a Fan Boy?
If there are facts and proof then its just subjective because you blew that kind of money and someone made a good profit. I hear you. Which is a demo done in truetone electronics, Toronto. May be a fraction difference. But again depending on my brain
@@jackryder6732 Agreed. I mixed live audio for many years. I peaked on what I could learn on my own. I hired a degreed audio engineer and what he showed me was mind blowing but sometimes the.difference between a good mix and great mix were very small changes.
The OEM cable for my receiver has a SA stamp and 16awg, sub is UL rated and 18awg. I'm thinking of upgrading to Pangea AC-14 cables [14awg]. Reasonably priced, $40 for 1.5 meters and are a heavier gauge than the OEM cables.
Gene the timing of videos just right, i got a couple of power cables to compare with the stock ones.if power cords don’t make a difference then do the power filters or conditioners do anything?
I recently got a filter, that can filter from a bit to a lot. When it filters a lot (on the amp) it makes the sound worse. When it filters a bit, it changes the sound - making some records sound better and others worse...
Can they? Possibly, depends on the power in your house. If you have power issues in, or coming to your house then yes they can make a difference. If not then it probably won't do anything but give you piece of mind. I use UPS's in my system because my power cuts out randomly sometimes. Will they make a difference in sound quality? I highly doubt it. Like he said this is what the power supply in the component is for. The component is already regulating, converting and filtering the ac signal. Filters and conditioners should be a safety concern, not a quality of sound issue. If I had a really exepensive system I would probably have some nice line conditioners just to help protect all that gear. And most likely an insurance plan that covered it too. I wouldn't expect it to make it sound better though. For lower end stuff like I own UPS's made for computers work just fine. That is what I use. They help with voltage spikes, cut outs and if the power goes out it gives me some time to shut everything off properly. If you hook a fancy line conditioner up to your system and it makes a difference in your audio quality I would highly suggest you call an electrician because you have issues in your house.
Well this hobby is all about experience and experiences. I really wanted and new pair of speakers. The dealer brought them to my home. We listened and - nah. They didn’t bring the improvements I thought they might. He looked behind my kit and suggested removing all the SMPS from the same distribution block. We listened, ooh, that sounded better! Free upgrade. He said do you want to try something else? Why not?, I said He produced two mains cables. He plugged the first one into my amp. We listened. It was incredible. The sound was a night and day improvement. Sound stage, texture and shape of bass notes. He put the second into my dac. Again an improvement. Not as large but noticeable. We removed both cables and my old system was back. We added the cables back and it was a vastly improved system. Not different sounding like a component change but a better sounding system. An improvement in all areas and repeatable. The cables were pre owned (customer had upgraded) and £350 each - an absolute bargain for the difference they made. Before he left he smiled and went to his car. He came back with another different cable. Into the amp it went. My jaw hit the floor. I’ve listened to HiFi for 40 years and had heard nothing like this. That cable was £2500. Way out of my league. However, I heard it. I heard it. They are not sexy like a new shiny box but if I had £2500 to spend that would be my next purchase. My experience.
Agree completely. I only have a 'special' $40 OFC cable on my custom toroidal transformer going to a class A headphone amp I use for IEM's. Can't say I heard an improvement, but for an extra $30, why not get a really nice looking cable with OFC for shits and giggles
Is there any way you could perform an A/B test and measure them under power? Is there any difference then? Not just measurements taken with no signal? Or has this been done? And can I see those results? Im still on the fence like many of us.
I bought a cheap pangera power cord from audioadvisor. Hooked it up to my McIntosh MC 352 amp. Right away I heard more bass. So I bought one for my preamp. Didn't hear any difference. Just my 2 cents worth
Gene great insight .You hear some of these audiophile utubers say how ac power chords make big improvements.bass is richer and there is space between the instruments and vocals blah ,blah, blah and meanwhile non of them have the credentials you have maybe a high school equivalency in their back pocket.
Look up Bill Whitlock (Quad-Eight, Jensen Transformers, former AES President). If you have an AES membership you can watch a two hour presentation he does on the subject but if not the powerpoints are out there freely available in PDF format. There are two of them, just search "bill whitlock ground loop" on google and you'll find them.
I was going to order power cables from GR but then I tried the Encore XLS speaker kit build. Unimpressed with the Encores when compared to my home built open baffle design loud speakers, I opted out of the power cord upgrade.
Having good shielding around the RCA interconnect cables between your source and your preamplifier matters the most, because that signal is soon going to be AMPLIFIED. Any noise in that signal will be amplified too.
Hello. Do you have a video on power conditioners/line filters, lately I've been a bit obsessed with the idea, even though part of me doesn't really think it will make an audible difference. I just bought a good surge protector to protect my equipment, and it's supposed to have basic voltage regulation and EMI/RFI filtering, along with surge suppression, but is a good power conditioner beneficial in terms of sound quality?
This is hands down the most honest and accurate info on power cables I've seen. Thank you! Not much else I could add that you didn't cover already. Cheers!
I use good surge suppressors to keep peaks from killing my components, but if I have no issue powering my 800 watt rms bass amp or my 100 watt guitar half-stack, I have a hard time believing that if it's thick enough to handle the load, I seriously doubt it will make a difference in my stereo. My issues come from shielding and properly placing the input cables to get rid of EMI. Moving my input cables away from EMI transmitters makes a big difference, especially when I'm pushing the front end of my amp.
Great video. I like your reference to UL. I want to further point out another scam here. Some power cord vendors will buy OEM UL listed plugs and even IEC connectors. Then they claim "see our power cord is UL listed". WRONG! As you probably know Gene, replacement or OEM connectors are only UL listed by them selves. That listing does not extend to the entire cord assembly. In order to have a legally listed power cord, the entire assembled product must be submitted for testing. Just using UL listed plugs doesn't cut it. And what is scary is the unknown raw wire they use? Is it rated and listed for AC line voltage application? And another issue are these UL listed OEM plugs and wall outlets that are then re-plated with some exotic metal or cryo treated by the cable charlatans. Any listed electrical product that is modified beyond the OEM's instructions is no longer listed. That UL stamp on a modified plug or wall outlet now means nothing once it's re-plated or cryo treated. Harmless? You tell me? How was it plated? Is the plating metal compatible with the OEM surface plating or will it flake off over time and cause a metalized conductive track? Did the cryo treatment weaken the plastic to where the outlet or plug can split apart when connected exposing live terminals?
Audiophile power cables do make a big difference in sound quality. But if gear in your system is not high-end, there will certainly be a bottleneck that will mask any sound improvement. In order to avoid that, just connect these wonders directly between the speakers and an high end AC conditioner and purifier. And you will see! If that's not the case, it's probably because you forgot the cable riser!
Cable risers? Mannnn you kiddin'? my friends had those things all around their houses, I asked one diehard self-proclaimed audiophile when was the last time he's been on the couch (head doctor) lol.
@@ecstasy5317 One audiophile invited me at his house. He had very high end $200,000 speakers. In order to maintain the signal path as short as possible, and avoid noisy and distorting amplifier, he connected the speakers (using $20,000 per feet high end power cables) directly to the AC Outlet. I was trying to stop him, but he said: "the ideal amplifier is a wire with a gain. And since the gain of these wonders is limited to 1, you need the full power of the AC outlet and some good cable riser in order to really appreciate the sound". And it was at that moment that suddenly, just a few seconds after his sentence, I've heard the most realistic explosion I've ever experienced. It was so realistic that you could also see the flames coming out of the speakers, and feel the smell of something burning. So please stop arguing about cable risers and good power cables!
You power cable upgrade is not complete unless you add the Mapleshade Floor Trestles ($55), Mapleshade Wall Trestles and Mapleshade Traid Cable Lifts to keep those wires off the floor.
AudioQuest Niagara 1200. It has none sacrificial surge protection and will condition your sound, filtering out any unwanted noise from shared circuits etc.
Maybe organize a double blind test with a few audiophile people who know their music very well and bring their own tracks and source gear....also with the proper gear to switch instantaneously. That will be something..the debate will be put to rest😆
I mostly agree with the idea that good standard power cables are fine enough. Still my question would be : so measurements don’t show apparent improvements. But do those that measure measure the right thing ? Another question I have is : Why are medical, space or military grades power cables manufactured if that would not bring improvements to the equipment behind ?
Medical and military equipment power cords are designed to be rugged and in some cases pass lots of current for high power devices. There's no magic in how they are designed. My $40k Audio Precision Analyzer that measured > 130dB SINAD used a standard power cable you get with consumer audio gear. No magic.
I am not an audiophile to open this up. I use a 200 watt Sunfire amplifier that to this day I enjoy. I'm 55 so my hearing is not what it used to be. On my amplifier is a joule VU style meter which measures incoming power. It sits dead steady at 390 joules. I switch cords and it's 390. So zero power flow increase. And I cannot hear a difference. I hear more by removing my speaker grills. Thanks for the video.
That Sunfire was a beautiful component series, when I first saw the preamp and power amp combo I liked it just as much as the beautiful sounding and looking Classe audio systems. 💎👍
Powercords , Usb cables, intercons, power conditioner etc can have a positiv impact on the audio quality. I trust my ears, if something contributes a positv it stays.
If "audiophiles" were actually concerned with real measurements as well as the actual limitations of human audio physiology, there would be 90% less companies out there hawking products designed for and marketed to fools.
no but I've measured amplifiers with various type of power supplies. SMPS has come a long way and are just as viable as linear supplies now, if done correctly.
Thanks for the video. I agree with most of your views, but what about the impact of the EMI from the power cable to the other low voltage cables and/or sensitive components that might be in close proximity eg a DAC near Amp power chord
This is why a properly designed power supply is important. Not a power cable. As long as the cable is UL and is capable of delivering the current needed, that is all that is needed.
Any good interconnect cable will have a properly applied shield surrounding the audio conductors, without costing you silly amounts of money. Long-time manufacturers of cables, such as Belden and Mogami have such good cabling, available for OEM, and they don't cost as much as a luxury car either! The markups on some audiophile cables are truly insane. Equipment, like DACs, phone preamps, etc should also have a metallic case connected to properly implemented grounding. Any small net amount of 60 Hz (+ related harmonics and previously picked up rf junk signals) radiating from a power cable conducting high (60 Hz component) demanded current would then be inconsequential.
Gene, I would like to say how much I appreciate your solid "logical" work in the Audio/Video world. I am an EE also "from long, long ago" and get so tired of the claims by some companies. Thank you for exposing them and showing the truth based on solid engineering principles. As an aside, I first came across one of your videos on UA-cam several years ago and you had a cutout of Spock and Kirk beside you in the background. I instantly thought "I should listen to this guy" as I am a original Trekkie. I was just entering the 7th grad in the first season. When they were going to cancel the series after the second season, I was one of those Nerds who wrote a letter to NBC to not cancel, which we won and did get a 3rd season. I hope it was okay that I posted your videos when you had COVID-19 to show people what it was really like . Those videos were very helpful and I was very happy when you recovered. Again, keep up the good work.
@@billyshows5675 You know Gene deserves it.Better have low manures than be a lier and sellout. If he was a human, i would treat him like a human.But he is a ****.
I have played with power cables, and yes going from the supplied cable to a £35 upgrade did make a difference. I think this is down to the low quality and thin cable that came with it. I then tried at £300 cable and this made no difference that was obvious. Replaying the wall socket also helped but not as an upgrade, but due to the old one had got damp. The point being is knowing what your kit needs to perform and checking these things are in place.
Gene makes all the rational arguments, however he overlooks some truths that can affect sound quality in a high quality listening system. As just 1 example, all power cords act to a greater or lesser extent as both an antenna and a filter. Both can affect the SQ, even with a short length between the wall and your component. Second, connectors matter ALOT. High quality power cords use much better connectors, metal welding techniques instead of soldered connections, copper and gold instead of steel, and tigher fitment with the IEC connector. All of which can affect the SQ in a high quality system. Third, purer copper as well as gauge and geometry all can make significant AND MEASURABLE differences to the performance of the cable, and thus the SQ based on how it interacts with your specific electronics. Thatis partly why this topic is so subjective....everyone's system is different electrically, acoustically, and qualitatively. It's well established AND MEASURABLE that resistance, capacitance, and inductance all have an effect on SQ in a high quality system. Nice try Gene, but respectfully, you need to re-think your simplistic position. You are misleading alot of people out there with your opinion.
You’re just making bald assertions, and comically responding to “all the rational arguments” with “truths”. Where are the rational arguments and measurements for the “truths”, or are the only arguments left irrational ones? If it’s the latter, we’re talking about faith. This stuff gets into the realm of religion, astonishingly enough. We’re talking about power cables here. Did you happen to miss the entire part of the video where he explained the power supply? The power cable delivers AC into the power supply of your device, which converts AC to DC, the process of which filters out anything you might be worried about, basically by definition. The rest of the circuit is powered by whatever unvarying DC current that was generated by the component’s power supply. The 60hz AC and whatever might have ridden in with it is long “forgotten” by the time you’re in the circuit. But lets say you’re right: the thing is, if the component requires 3ft of fancy power cable to do its best job, then it’s a failed design (not “high-quality”), and was never worthwhile in the first place. If you think it’s worthwhile to put a $100-5000 power cable on an amp with a broken power supply, well it’s your money. I agree that connectors are important and must be sufficient to task, but they are hardly high technology or worth any great deal of money. It seems pretty safe to assume good-quality manufacturers are going to use power cables that don’t have faulty connectors. Similarly, yes, good internal connections are important, but what real difference do fancy “metal welding techniques” make over normal techniques, solder or otherwise, especially given the receptacle you’re shoving that fancy plug into has *screwed-on* connections to romex behind it, not to mention at the power panel, at the sub-station, and untold other connections upstream? All that said, I do own some aftermarket power cables, but only as seldom-seen “jewelry” to dress up the appearance of the system. They look good, feel nice in the hand, and get the job done. I just don’t kid myself that they do anything more than that. And even more said, I know this was all a waste of time to type in. Sometimes I can’t help myself. You do you and I wish you continued happiness with your setup. At least we can agree we like to listen to music - and I bet you have a cool system :-)
I'm going to very politely disagree. I do understand this plays with the guys that critique audiofools and to the measurement crowd. And my counter is the question do different components in an electrical (audio) component sound different? For example do engineers and audio designers hear differences between capacitors of the same value but manufactured differently? The answers are yes, of course they do. Nelson Pass and others talk about the sound of various circuits and components. They switch out bits and listen to them in circuits and decide what to include and exclude based on cost and sound quality. You get the end result of that design process. Of course it includes measurement and testing but a lot of listening. Audio amplifiers are designed with different types of feedback and the types of feedback used and in what ratios, global and local change the sound as well as stability of the amplifiers. We buy those results and we all agree we can hear differences between different amplifiers, integrated amps which again are based on design choices which included listening and yes the bias of the designer. We can hear differences in rooms, anechoic chambers sound different then home listening rooms and if you have four friends with four different listening rooms each room will sound different. You won't need a measurement to tell you that. Then all of a sudden when we get to cables, which after all are only electrical components, we claim we can't or shouldn't hear differences. These cables are constructed differently, are drawn from different metals, may include varied amounts of different metals, different shielding, different terminations (again all electrical components) but somehow the measurement crowd says, well I couldn't measure a difference and all of a sudden though our ears and brains are sophisticated enough to hear differences between a compendium of electrical choices our gear represent, the rooms we listen in, etc. they are not sophisticated enough to hear differences in cables. All I can say is that you are wrong and the angst this perspective brings to the table is the result of pricing choices made in a capitalistic economic system. I get that many things are way way over priced, but unfortunately this is a market problem. We have allowed our market to become bifurcated by income and seduced by our desires for luxury into overpaying for gear that ought to be more reasonably priced. But that fact that many cables cost too damn much does not mean they all sound the same, nor does it mean that because engineers haven't figure out a way to measure these differences yet that they don't exist. Engineering schools by in large teach their students that electricity is electricity and wire is wire it's probably the first thing they learn in school. By the time they graduate they have absorbed this mantra so much that it has become a paradigm. They are stuck in it and they can not measure their way out of it and so it persists. As an audiophile in the hobby for more than 35 years and also selling audio gear for more than 20 years, I have heard different renditions of this over and over again. I would say to you all trust your ears with your gear and your cables. You are always looking for synergy to get the best out your gear. The engineers that built your gear have gone through similar processes of listening when choosing components, designing power supplies etc and so should you with cables and watch your own wallets not everybody else's. I have built my own power cables using different wire and different terminations and they sound different. I saved a lot of money doing so and I would suggest you try it as well. Lastly, even with Ul certification not every cable is inspected, in the same way not every slaughtered chicken in inspected. If you don't feel comfortable building your own cables then just stick with stock but if you try various cables you can at least tune the sound differently, at the end of the day whether something sounds better or worse will be a subjective one which may or may not be also measurable. The last issue I want to address is this issue of noise, the wire coming into the house versus the cables you use to connect your equipment. Obviously there is a lot of noise on the grid and yes to varying degrees equipment is designed to filter out some of that noise. The diagram was nice but to not point out that the choices engineers make in designing those components that filter noise have implications for each piece of gear's ability to filter out that noise. Not everyone builds a robust set of filters into their gear due to market based price constraints for the piece being designed. The noise to be most concerned with is in your own house, The number of computers, network based devices, refrigerators, freezers, poorly designed lights etc, all bring more noise, a properly designed power cable (I put ferrite cores on all of my own hand built power cables) So a power cord can help as a first filter if long enough and designed well and then can change the sound depending on the metals used as one example. copper versus silver or combined sound differently in your system and may or may not help you find synergy in your gear but you have to listen to it to decide. Lastly, it is not the cost of the wire that matters. I have heard really expensive cables that I did not think sounded better or were not synergistic in my system and if the cost of something is way out of proportion as many things are these days than just don't buy it. The price thing won't be corrected until the economy gets corrected which unfortunately, I don't see happening anytime soon but that is a different conversation...
Elton, that is perhaps the most intelligent post that I have seen on audio discussions. Seriously. And you have nothing to sell. I will think about this next time I buy a cable or eat chicken. Cheers.
I think you explained it very well. I thought the audiophile world was all BS until I bought my 1st McIntosh pre-amp and amp. Wow, night and day difference from my $2k Yamaha. Then I tried several power cables from $75-600 dollar range. Had a party with about 6 of my friends, did a blind test with stock vs upgrades PC's. Everyone in the room heard the difference. I guess we are a full of sh** according to this crew!!
Dang! I was hoping to see the word "synergistic" right away, but you made me wait till the end. Well played, sir. By the way, Walmart has a sale on tin foil. Better hurry!.
In my house, there is 35m of wire length inside the walls between the fuse box and the power outlet where my AMP is plugged it on 3rd floor. This should illustrate the insignificance of the need for any "audiophile power cable".
future shock There is a guy near New Haven, CT who has his own transformer pad on property. And if I remember correctly, it’s 3 phase too. But not for “clean” power... but actual POWER! I wish I could find the article, I read it mid to late 2000’s. He has over 20 vacuum tube amps powering 30 tower speakers. His average annual power bill was $200,000 at the time.
In my system better quality power chords DO make a huge difference. Its audible and repeatable. However it works it does work. So completely don't agree with you.
Answering a question from somewhere below. Pull a 20 amp home run from the panel. Remember the breaker is there to protect the wire from overloading, it's not there to protect whatever equipment is on the circuit. One 20 amp circuit generally has 10 outlets on it so if you run a dedicated line with a double box your good and make sure to use 20 amp outlets. If you have ground issues and your line in is flown look outside by your meeter and make sure the green ground wire is connected to the copper rod they drove in the ground.
Quick answer: Yes, power cords make a difference. Without them I can’t hear any music whatsoever. This was with a properly done double blind test by the way.
LOL 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Science can't explain everything but It can explain how it work. Sound related topic here is kind of chicken and egg issue ... but different power cord do affecting the sound. But those danm expensive cable are really! too much. Haha
@@ryanling7319 They dont, end of story.
Got ya! True… ya gotta have one plugged in LOL
As an electrician, I approve of this message. Especially about the lack of the UL listings.
'My 5k power cable made a HUGE difference, it really lighted things up...'
Approved by Robert Steich, Master Electrician. Thank you Robert!
@Mr Do that guy is rediculous. I would love Gene to comment on his silly wire pedalling video.
Robert, I'm so glad that Gene talked about the crap home wiring in most home. I wonder who many system installers pro and/or DIY add up or measure the load placed on the power circuit. Surely damn few. I'm considering running a dedicated 10ga 30amp circuit to my system just to be safe. 15 amps add up quick.
@@shannonwilliams6623 if Danny is such a badass then why doesn't he work at or for any one of the audiophile businesses such as let's say PS Audio?? Or Stereophile? Danny was founded by a UA-cam beggar who literally begged his viewers for money because he had to move. Has his daughter crawling all over him during his videos. Danny is an arrogant man who is nothing but a snake oil salesmen who uses his channel to pedal is products period...
I run stock power cords on my full system but because I wanted to test for myself I put an audioquest NRG 4 on my main speaker amp (emotiva xpa2 gen 2). On a completely unrelated note I have for sale one 3ft Audioquest NRG 4 ;)
You would think a 5 or 10 thousand dollar amp would have a sufficient power cord from the factory and if it made a difference wouldn't they include that in the price of the amp
That is absolutely correct ! You buy a Ferrari and it comes with cheap fuel lines ? People who can afford things are not as smart as you think ?
Fools and money never stay together !
Is everything really measurable? Take 10 violins, play open "A" (assume they are tuned) all will measure A440. I guarantee without a shadow of a doubt all 10 will sound differently.
Everything is not measurable, but you know what is? Power cable, speaker wire, and cables. Astounding that in 2020, we are still having this discussion and snake oil still putting other people's kids through college. As the man said "nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people"
@@oldb3139 my point was all the violins will measure the same but sound different. I believe there are too many people saying different cables sound differently. Unfortunately, I am not able to buy enough of them to do side by side comparisons and stay married... That said they may sound different but measure different as well. For example, the two Kimber speaker cables the Audioholic likes both sound and measure differently.
@@richardpeters2193 I'm confident you could measure the differences.
You could measure the difference with the right equipment. An instrument does not play a constant single tone like a tone generator does. They all color the sound to a degree. This is why a string intrument sounds different than a saxaphone or a piano or whatever. And each instrument will have a sound that is unique to itself. This is why when you go to buy one you play several different ones to see how they sound. And it can be measured if you can see the spectrum of sound it is putting out. The dominant tone will be 440 but there will be many tones around it. Pretty much everything you can hear (and can't hear) can be measured. Many of just might not know the technical term for it. If you think something sounds warm, bright, muddy or whatever it can be measured and compared to something else. And someone can tell you exactly what you were hearing that gave you that impression if you did indeed hear it. If it can't be measured it was probably your brain tricking you. Not everyone hears the same way and even something as simple as your mood can effect how you percieve sound. Humans are very poor measuring devices lol.
Yes it is measurable. It's called harmonics and every violin has variation there even if the fundamental tone is the same. Proper measurement devices are way more sensitive than human hearing. Do not trust manufacturers that don't show measurements (or at least extensive specs).
Would the same principles apply to power strips with surge protection?
Surge protection is a good way to save expensive audio equipment during thunderstorms with lightnings nearby. Better to switch off any equipment from powerline. But if you did not do it those surge protectors can protect from overvoltage surges.
I upgraded my system to all Shunyata power management and the audio improvement was very noticeable. Expensive but I found I appreciated the value.
Must be most probably related to your expectations bias. But as Gene says, DBT listening is almost impossible with power chords/conditioners, that lead to psychoacoustics/Placebo effect.
@@vintageflanker7096 False. Not only can it be heard which I have A/B tested if you review the data testing by Shunyata on how it does effect audio and signal improvements you will see why their products are used in the Medical testing fields then migrated to Audio.
@@garykarczewski6678 cope
@@munmunyee ?????????????
@@garykarczewski6678 So you're telling me power that traveled hundreds of miles through antiquated power lines, then reached your 40 year old panel, with 40 year old breakers, then traveled a few more feet through your 40 year old wiring to your equipment is magically going to get fixed by an expensive power cable? Do people really believe this garbage?
I switched to extra crunchy peanut butter and it raised my sound stage. I’ll have to do a side by side comparison it seems to be make a hissing noise now.
An explanation that made sense to me (from Hans Beekhuyzen) is when a high current device like your power amp draws power a electromagnetic field surrounds the cord which is modulated by the power demands and can induce noise on your your low level interconnects even though they are shielded unless great care is taken to separate them and, this can be difficult with many devices in your rack, this is why a well shielded heavy gauge power cable can make a difference. Please comment.
Hans Beekhuyzen uses a lot of technical sounding mumbo jumbo but he's a quack. He refuses to use any measurements to back up his claims.
@@DisconnectedAudio agreed 100%, saw his UA-cam channel (Hans Beekhuyzen) and sensed that he’s more like a newscaster reading from a teleprompter rather than a reviewer or audiophile. Basically, Hans and a couple of others are just clueless but useful idiots to brands that sponsored their channel. Very fortunate that such misinformation are spread even given their limited audience and channel followers
Very rare that can occur if you use shielded interconnects. Virtually nothing will get through to double braided double foil shielded coax like Belden 1694A. Also, use XLR anytime you can and try to route power leads away from speaker cables and interconnects. I've never found a need to use shielded power cables.
@@Audioholics correct, use XLR for long runs, fuss-free and no worries of interferences. Much cheaper and more effective than those exotics cables that cost a kidney yet does nothing. Acoustics principles are known and proven scientifically for so long that it’s sad that unscrupulous sellers use disinformation to mislead the general public.
Your power cord has equal current flowing in both directions which creates magnetic fields that cancel each other out.
at 10:11 Did you misstate the effect of smaller gauge for longer cable length? I would expect resistance losses to increase with lighter gauge, not increase. Please clarify!
I own a few AudioQuest NRG-2 power cables. Magnolia reps got me good when I first got in to home theater. Haha!
I was ready to buy one until I did some research on UA-cam. Plenty of people have tested these junk chords by now and they do nothing.
Same here. Doh!
shameful upvote. we can always sell them on ebay if we are unscrupulous.
I own an NRG-2 myself and I really like it. However, I never expected it to do anything for the sound quality of my system. I bought it because I wanted a well-made, high-quality power cable made from quality materials that would last. That's why you buy a replacement/after-market power cable, not because it will improve the quality of the sound you hear at all. (Oh, and I bought my used for around $22)
That's nothing. Imagine spending 60,000$ on Nordost Odin Gold power cord
Im running a Krell KAV400xi integrated and the manual says to NOT use a 3rd party cord. It came with a 6 foot 14 awg power cord. I needed a shorter one so I purchased a 14 awg UL certified cord for 13 bucks. Spent the other $287 on actual vinyl so I had something to listen to on my system.
Gene is the benchmark reviewer for me very very knowledgable and tells it exactly as he see’s it
Not trying to sell anything and not trying to spread the bullshit to appease fancy rip off brand owners
All power to you and THANK YOU !!
very very refreshing 👍
Thanks!
So you're telling me power that traveled hundreds of miles through antiquated power lines, then reached your 40 year old panel, with 40 year old breakers, then traveled a few more feet through your 40 year old wiring to your equipment is magically going to get fixed by an expensive power cable? Do people really believe this garbage?
Yes!
Audiophiles are VERY weird people.
Please talk about ground loops. I have one that I isolated to my cable box cable. I put a noise filter on the cable to suppress it but is there a better way to eliminate it , instead of just covering it up? I would love to learn more....Thanks for teaching us so much, Gene!
You can buy *shielded* power cords for only slightly more than unshielded.
Thanks I appreciate the input. I have standard cables, have ocationally been thinking about upgrading, but I agree it is hard to think of any rational reason why they would be better. Still a few things crossed my mind when listening to you:
1. The notion that if you cannot measure a difference, there is no difference. I recently made a CD player upgrade. There are plenty of small details added to how particular insturments in the orchestra sound which makes the listening more inspiring. I very much doubt you can measure anything to detect this.
2. The idea that only immediately switching from one set-up to another would give a fair comparison. You only get a superficial view of the overall scope of the sound this way. Listening carefully to how different instruments sound in certain passages, how the echo rings out when the music stops etc. There is plenty of details that can be captured when comparing different set-ups even if some time elapses in between.
Finally, assuming that you are right, it must be concluded that the power cord companies´ marketing is very successful since they are able to sell expensive products that have essentially zero functional value.
Gene - Would you be able to debunk some myths about power conditioners? Things to look for and avoid? Why some people think power conditioners degrade the sound quality and who is the right candidate for one? I use a commercial grade Middle Atlantic PDU that includes surge and spike protection, as well as EMI filtering. While it doesn't "condition" the power, it provides me the protection from my power line.
I will do a video on power conditioners. Long story short, I use them for power protection and to have a common connection point for ALL equipment in a rack. No magic.
@@Audioholics thats a great topic, i have 2 power conditioners 1 is a Panamax M5400-PM for all my media stuff in the LivingRoom and a Furman PL-PRO DMC for my Mini Home Recording studio. I have had a couple power outages and the only thing ive noticed is the devices turning back on immediately upon the power coming back up. Another small issue is that my Panamax does make some Grounding hum but it doesn't affect what i have connected to it. I do like that it tells me on 1 gauge that i have 123 volts and the otherside tells me the amp hours all my devices are using.
@ Better yet: invest in prayer beads.
I have a big Belkin that theoretically does something but mostly is a nice big surge protector they lets me know the line voltage.
I have an old APC S Type power conditioner S15 with 1,500VA of uninterruptible power supply. The thing is a beast and I cannot believe it’s still going for over a grand for one... while I paid $250 with shipping 10 years ago. Don’t remember why it was so cheap though, I tend to buy “broken” things and repair them, but I don’t remember in this case.
Thank you for a very honest video and technical explanations !! Now, with all that has been said, what do you think about power conditionners ? Do they make a difference or is this snake oil also? I live in a very old appartment buiding and I use a Monster Power HTS 1600 mostly as a power surge and noise suppressor. Do you think this is enough or should I upgrade it since I have, in all, around 10k$ of equipment plugged into it? Thank you again !!
I bought a hospital grade power cable because it's 14 AWG and also the wall end of the cord has a really nicely shaped plug that's easy to grab. I think it was $12.00 US.
Romex from the breaker to the outlet, with a 500mA fuse feeding the unit (pre-amp). What the hell can 3-feet of "special" cable do in between?
Fairy dust does the same thing.
Well, Gene is correct with one exception, he literally mentions the exceptions and says to disregard it, I work with multiple rack components both at work and home and behind the these the interference between cables is massive, and most high-speed network and server cables have some shielding so, I do use similar cables at home, nothing too fancy, many reputable cables manufacturers make SJT UL-certified cables for 2 to 10 bucks per feet that can be used to reduce noise, and obviously this only applies if the system has multiple devices on the same rack with cable management, as having 2 or 3 cables away from each other will not cause any problems. So in summary buying spending hundreds of dollars of magical cable topologies is a form of snake oil, having reputable cable brand cables on a component rack will reduce "noise"/ interference from component to component.
Any noise induced or otherwise in the AC mains voltage going into your gear will be filtered by the rectification and filtration of the unit's DC power supply.
PERIOD.
Amir over at Audio Science Review shows this in some recent videos.
@@aussie8114 is that the point? Because that's not what most audiophiles say at all.
@@aussie8114 Sure, use shielded AC cables. You won't hear it but if ti makes you feel better, fine
But these people ("audiophiles") believe magic faeries are sprinkling dust on expensive audio cables and it makes them sound better, even though they measure exactly the same as a $1 cable.
@@aussie8114 thats audiophile nonsense. That the whole idea that the really expensive systems are more "highly resolving" than my medium priced system that I build is just nonsense. What exactly is it that my preamp or amplifier is failing to amplify that a $50,000 amplifier is amplifying, and that humans with tin ears can actually hear or perceive? Is my amplifier forgetting to amplify a cymbal crash? Is it failing to amplify a few bass guitar notes every once in awhile? Is it doing it on purpose? Like out of spite?
High-speed network and sever cables have some shielding? No, they don't, actually. That's almost always all just UTP. Unshielded Twisted Pair. They rely on the number of twists per foot withing the cable itself (on pairs of wires) to cancel out signal crosstalk among the cables. Almost no networking cables are ever shielded, with very few exceptions. Now, you can get shielded network cable, of course (STP) but unless you are in a VERY harsh, industrial-type environment with extremely high levels of EMI/RFI, that's not necessary at all and you are just paying for something that doesn't give you any actual benefit.
When you say lower gauge you mean 14 gauge vs 18 gauge, right? Many components came with 18 gauge, 6 foot iec cable. Just wondering if 14 gauge, same as 15 amp line, would be better as an "upgrade"?
Whatever cable the equipment came with is more than plenty for that equipment.
Gene, for the first time I disagree with you, I haven't bought expensive cables, but US$20 bulk cables from Alliexpress and the sound totally changed, more transparent, better positioning, more control in the low zone and more musicality. This time I affirm it with certainty because I have lived it.
Back in the day when I was experimenting with power cables I found that some makes of stock cable were more musical than others. You may have got lucky with the ones you bought. Snake oil doesn't exist at this level......
I really really want to buy the top of the line audioquest cable just to take the outer case of it and put it in to a regular cable and give it to someone who already own a lower end audioquest cable to see if they will notice a big difference .....
I'm going to get burned alive now 😂 I am so sorry everyone!
I was so skeptical on this subject that I had to try this for my self. I bought some "HiFi" power cords. Not expensive, but alot bigger gauge than the standard cables. I have done serious a-b testing, and had no reason to wanting to justify my purchase "not that expensive"
I am running a Marantz sr8012 bi-amped to a Rotel RMB1585 power amp. 5.1 system with Arendal Speakers.
All pieces of my equipment got a new power cord.
Again I am so sorry. But I can hear a difference. This is not placebo. I have done A-B testing with multiple non audio interested people and all could hear a difference. I can't argue with science, nor am I an expert on this subject. I do trust me ears though.
Please don't be to harsh!
I can't believe all reviewers who hear a difference are lying. There must be something more to this phenomena.
@@johnmann726 not lying, just delusional. Without a controlled blind test with instantaneous switching, the mind plays tricks on you.
@@Audioholics could be the case 🙂 but I am sorry, I and other non audio addicts can hear a difference. I can only tell people to try for them selves.
Lunatic! Haven't you heard that we have decided that power cords don't make any difference!? And who cares what YOU hear, as Gene said, you're clearly deluded. Having said that, I would never go back to the stock power cords, they suck all the life out of the music... but don't tell anyone I said that 😉
@@Audioholics not necessarily. His old cables might be bad/malfunction/broken. i can confirm from my experience that if cable is not capable for some reason to deliver current properly sound looses quality. In my case level of sound in right channel was dropping
This channel is refreshingly practical and honest.
Great video Gene. Is there a benefit to using shielded power cables? Not to shield the power line but to reduce emissions from the power cord to nearby equipment (provided the shield is grounded at the plug end).
It's not a bad idea if that's a problem but just realize many shielded power cords don't meet UL due to fire safety issues. Personally keep power cord away from line level stuff and you will be ok.
@@Audioholics thanks for the reply, makes sense to me.
Can we also cover expensive audio grade fuses...both for home and car audio(Anl and mini Anl)...
I do like the idea of a shielded power cable that's not radiating EMI/RFI into nearby audio-carrying cables.
Basic cable hygiene costs nothing.
Yes, but with shielding you will lose the Chocolatey midrange and buttery highs lol
Everything behind the wall all the way to power plant is unshielded. Most audio cables are shielded though.
Exactly!
@@jefflabute2946he's talking about interference with audio cables
Planning to install a separate line for the hifi and upgrade it to 14 awg though :)
The end of the world argument against audiophile power cable: if power cables make a difference in sound quality do you think high end hi-fi products manufacturers would spend a lot of money in R&D to then sell you their stuff with shitty power cables that make their effort worthless? Wouldn't it be like Mercedes Benz selling you a brand new cars with retreaded tires on it?
If you buy a car that you want to put on track to race, you won't go on stock tires 😉
ok, GEne and the energy conditioners? I noticed an improvement in the audio when I removed my steup from the conditioner and plugged it straight into the socket
Just saw a Audioquest cable manufacturing demo her on YT... Hillarious... they invented cold welding they say... ( crimping) 😂😂😂 sadly comment are disabled on their channel... wonder why...
Hi great tower speakers on the back 11:19 ... what are they ? they must sound phenomenal indeed
This is what I’ve always thought intuitively. I recently heard another science-based testing site. The only thing he said that gave me pause is that the low voltage signal interconnects can possibly pick up electromagnetic interference if put in close proximity to a power cord passing high current power. So my interconnects from preamp to power amp would not go through a transformer. This is assuming that the cables are not properly shielded. Is there any validity to that?
If you run your high impedance interconnect cable alongside the AC power cord carrying a high current, there will be some interaction. But the interconnect cable is shielded, and that will block the interaction. I don't think you can buy unshielded RCA to RCA cables. You would have to make them up yourself from pieces of wire.
I wired my entire house myself. If I were to plug in my equipment in my living room, there is at least 60’ of 12/2 Romex wires to the breaker. Yet 2-3’ of special wire will give me a better Sound? It only makes a difference if the power cord was 14/2 or smaller gauge.
Thank you for discussing this topic! I am a metallurgist and quality assurance engineer, also a lifelong audiophile seeking equipment with high value/quality per the investment. The only time I have replaced a power cord is when the installation required a longer or shorter cable, or one time I noticed a power cord was getting warmer than expected, (damaged). I have had great success with replacement power cords in every configuration and length from Monoprice and Amazon, they are quite inexpensive. I usually opt for 12 gauge if available, considering the wiring in my home is mostly 14 gauge between the breaker box and wall outlets. Best wishes to all-
I would have been the last person to believe in power cords as well. That said, I run a pretty nice headphone system around my gaming pc. I have a discreet DAC and separate solid state and tube amps. I purchased a reasonably priced Furman power conditioner, mostly for better protection and sure enough, it didn't really make any difference to the sound. Later, I bought a handful of $30 'audiophile' power cords just to try out. I put one on each audio component and the pc and then left them all alone.
It wasn't day and night, but I absolutely noticed that the solid state amp was closing the gap with the tube amp. The sound stage debth was more coherent and over all sounded more real. The tube amp didn't seem to benefit much. I brought out my older DAC/amp all in one that I felt didn't have the resolution of my newer gear. With the new power stuff, it also seemed more on par with the other electronics.
I am a person who didn't think power cables could make a difference and always laughed at people who did. Also, FWIW, I think AB testing is good for finding frequency response or tonality differences, but not spacial cues. I take more time to explore the 'space' of the sound and then have to be familiar with both pieces of equipment in that way to make a comparison. To my ear anyway, these kinds of spacial cues are where higher end gear duke it out, over lower end gear, since it's not that hard to achieve frequency response and resolution these days.
All that said, I still wouldn't advocate expensive cables, or expect to hear a difference right out of the wall. I also can't hear any difference between my $30 and $200 interconnect cables, either.
Even if your new (expensive) power cord worked as described , this approach often results in no benefits to the system unless all other ground paths in the connected equipment can be totally isolated. An isolation transformer is not a substitute for the proper shielding or grounding of individual equipment. As G said...
Your thoughts on those power conditioners? When not needing a UPS type support.
Try a power cable at the level of a Nordost Valhalla V2. If you can't hear a major change in sound, then you either have hearing issues or shouldn't be considered a reviewer of audio. I understand that it doesn't make any sense, but the sound quality is what I care about. Power cable sets the tone for the entire system especially at the source.
LOL you're a victim of placebo effect but if it makes you happy, enjoy.
@@Audioholics You are a victim of ignorance, but, hey, ignorance is bliss, right?
@@ujwiersma8482 no I'm a victim of education. 6 years of Engineering school + 7 years designing electronics took the magic and mystisticm out of cables for me.
@@Audioholics Yup, seen that many times. You EE guys talk all the techno talk, but fail to explain why so many people can hear differences. BTW, as far as science goes, you don't need double blind testing. It does not matter if the person changing the power cords during a trial knows (is not blind to) what pcs are being used at the moment. As long as that person does not convey that information to the listeners.
@@ujwiersma8482 you obviously aren't well versed in psychology or science. A blind test doesn't mean you blindfold the listener. It just means they aren't aware of what DUT they are listening to. Placebo effect and expectation bias are far better indicators of the "differences" people think they hear when swapping a device that has no measurable difference.
Sonic argument aside, I don’t see anything wrong with dressing ones high end audio/video system with nice looking cables. There’s a level of psychological satisfaction that comes with that. Just don’t break the bank in your quest or if you’re a nut, who cares? I own some expensive amplifiers/equipment from Dartzeel, Burmester, Jeff Rowland & Boulder and connecting them to the wall with a cheap little black rubber PC seems like an audiophile sin. And, that will remain in the back of your mind as you try to enjoy the system.
Gene, thank you for your engineering experience and insightful video! Perhaps it will help reign in some of the ridiculous audible claims made by manufacturers and reviewers.
my local audio shop is trying to sell me upgraded power cables, i told them hold off and let me look into it. glad i did.
The rage is "hospital grade" power cables. $100+ per meter.
I upgraded my power cable from a bog standard one to a £40 one from China with a Gold Plated C-079 IEC Connector. Did it improve the audio hmmmm not sure but the crackle and momentary sound drop out that sometimes occurred when adjusting the volume on my tube amp... stopped permanently !!?
Noise and dropout when adjusting the volume is due to age issues or contamination in the volume control itself. It can come and go, and tends to clear somewhat if you wind the control up and down many times. Since it's not consistent, there could seem to be a cause-effect relationship with the new power cable if you only change it once.
But you can prove to yourself that it doesn't correlate to the power cable, by going back to the old cable, then to the new cable, multiple times in succession.
The bad news is that noisy volume control pots tend to get worse long-term.
Diminishing returns definitely applies here, upgrading from 20 ga. lamp cord to something heavier and maybe shielded probably makes a difference, going from that to $5000 cables, well, I'd like to see some double blind test results on that.
its been done , no difference was heard
@@patthewoodboy Shielded cable definitely helped in my specific case of noise coming from my computer. I had ground loop hum and fixed that, but there was still noise when I moved my mouse or played more intense games. Switching to a shielded cable helped. It is still unbalanced cable though. Balanced cable probably would have eliminated the noise too.
Biases do exist, I 100% agree that placebo and confirmation bias is a real thing in audio and in many other things. Having said that, I find these 'trust the science' type videos to be slightly arrogant. Truthfully, there is a lot we know about electricity, losses and sound, but there is still a lot that we don't know. I think we should give the benefit of the doubt to some people who experiment with different power cords and hear improvements or detrimental impacts to the sound of their system. To just essentially imply that they are stupid and imagining things is a bit condescending in my opinion. There is a lot of truth to what he is saying, but its a very hardline stance. I wish he would take up the Synergistic Research challenge and fly over there and do a true double blind test with his own ears and let us know what he thinks. Sometimes people can be too smart for their own good. I've been humbled many times in my life by people and I think having a little bit of humility is a good thing, especially in audio where there haven't been billions and billions of dollars spent researching such a niche hobbyist market.
Experimenting is fine if it's done controlled. Simply swapping out power cables and doing a sighted test is highly flawed and reveals nothing but placebo. To ignore objective data to help make a purchasing decision is both foolish and arrogant. The "Synergistic Challenge" was a ruse simultaneously tied to a threat for litigation from their attorney. It was never a legitimate challenge. Nice try.
@@Audioholics Just so I fully understand, are you saying that if we used three different power cords, all UL and all 12 AWG solid high quality pure wire from the same manufacturer and not found to be limiting the current delivery in any meaningful way. If we got these cords and had their contacts treated, one with gold, the other with silver and the other with tin plating, that they would sound identical? Now again, I’m not saying one would sound better than the other, but if they measured the same electrically, do you believe it is even possible within any stretch of the imagination that they would sound different whatsoever?
@@isobutylquinoline If you tin them with a metal less conductive than copper, then resistance will increase and you can potentially have power loss and an audible difference if severe enough. If all 3 power cables have the same DC and AC resistance, then there will be no difference. Not rocket science.
@@Audioholics Gene. Your little adders of 'nice try' and 'not rocket science' and these little jabs is worrying. I like your channel and you've helped me a lot when it comes to setting up my subwoofer and I really appreciate the Star Trek stuff as well. I don't know if its the whole Synergistic Research thing, which we don't have the full story on, or maybe you've been attacked by a lot of zealots talking about how cables make a difference, but something isn't right with you recently. Maybe I just misjudged you initially and saw what I wanted to see, but the Gene from a few years ago wasn't so abrasive. If you pray, please consider praying about it. I am glad that you enjoy your sound and your system and its good that you have a channel and can share your experiences with others.
Lalalalalala I can’t hear you! I just spent $20k on power cables and it lifted a veil on the soundstage, improved detail and image the micro dynamics came to li....pffffbwahahahaa I can’t do it!
Do cigars taste different? Can you measure that? I don't smoke. I guess you could try to explain it to me but I would not truly understand until I developed my taste for them and learned the differences. Sound is the same thing. I hate cigars, cigarettes but I believe in the freedom we have to enjoy those things. If I can tell the difference then why do you care so much. Are you just a Fan Boy?
If there are facts and proof then its just subjective because you blew that kind of money and someone made a good profit. I hear you. Which is a demo done in truetone electronics, Toronto. May be a fraction difference. But again depending on my brain
@@jackryder6732
Agreed. I mixed live audio for many years. I peaked on what I could learn on my own. I hired a degreed audio engineer and what he showed me was mind blowing but sometimes the.difference between a good mix and great mix were very small changes.
@James Tremblay You are just a fan boy.
The OEM cable for my receiver has a SA stamp and 16awg, sub is UL rated and 18awg. I'm thinking of upgrading to Pangea AC-14 cables [14awg]. Reasonably priced, $40 for 1.5 meters and are a heavier gauge than the OEM cables.
Gene the timing of videos just right, i got a couple of power cables to compare with the stock ones.if power cords don’t make a difference then do the power filters or conditioners do anything?
I recently got a filter, that can filter from a bit to a lot. When it filters a lot (on the amp) it makes the sound worse. When it filters a bit, it changes the sound - making some records sound better and others worse...
Can they? Possibly, depends on the power in your house. If you have power issues in, or coming to your house then yes they can make a difference. If not then it probably won't do anything but give you piece of mind. I use UPS's in my system because my power cuts out randomly sometimes. Will they make a difference in sound quality? I highly doubt it. Like he said this is what the power supply in the component is for. The component is already regulating, converting and filtering the ac signal. Filters and conditioners should be a safety concern, not a quality of sound issue. If I had a really exepensive system I would probably have some nice line conditioners just to help protect all that gear. And most likely an insurance plan that covered it too. I wouldn't expect it to make it sound better though. For lower end stuff like I own UPS's made for computers work just fine. That is what I use. They help with voltage spikes, cut outs and if the power goes out it gives me some time to shut everything off properly. If you hook a fancy line conditioner up to your system and it makes a difference in your audio quality I would highly suggest you call an electrician because you have issues in your house.
Good video, logical explanation... What are your thoughts on power conditioners for source equipment?
Good for connecting everything in one convenient area but makes a negligible difference in actually cleaning up power or "improving" sound.
Well this hobby is all about experience and experiences.
I really wanted and new pair of speakers. The dealer brought them to my home. We listened and - nah. They didn’t bring the improvements I thought they might.
He looked behind my kit and suggested removing all the SMPS from the same distribution block. We listened, ooh, that sounded better! Free upgrade.
He said do you want to try something else?
Why not?, I said
He produced two mains cables. He plugged the first one into my amp.
We listened. It was incredible. The sound was a night and day improvement. Sound stage, texture and shape of bass notes.
He put the second into my dac. Again an improvement. Not as large but noticeable.
We removed both cables and my old system was back. We added the cables back and it was a vastly improved system. Not different sounding like a component change but a better sounding system. An improvement in all areas and repeatable. The cables were pre owned (customer had upgraded) and £350 each - an absolute bargain for the difference they made.
Before he left he smiled and went to his car. He came back with another different cable. Into the amp it went. My jaw hit the floor. I’ve listened to HiFi for 40 years and had heard nothing like this.
That cable was £2500. Way out of my league. However, I heard it. I heard it.
They are not sexy like a new shiny box but if I had £2500 to spend that would be my next purchase.
My experience.
Jim Ettridge no wonder the dealer was smiling 😁 after talking (conning) you into buying 2 pre owned (could even be faulty) power cables for £700 🤦🏾♂️
Will a heavy gauge extension cord be okay if my power cable isn't long enough?
Agree completely. I only have a 'special' $40 OFC cable on my custom toroidal transformer going to a class A headphone amp I use for IEM's. Can't say I heard an improvement, but for an extra $30, why not get a really nice looking cable with OFC for shits and giggles
Is there any way you could perform an A/B test and measure them under power? Is there any difference then? Not just measurements taken with no signal? Or has this been done? And can I see those results? Im still on the fence like many of us.
I bought a cheap pangera power cord from audioadvisor. Hooked it up to my McIntosh MC 352 amp. Right away I
heard more bass. So I bought one for my preamp. Didn't hear any difference. Just my 2 cents worth
Gene great insight .You hear some of these audiophile utubers say how ac power chords make big improvements.bass is richer and there is space between the instruments and vocals blah ,blah, blah and meanwhile non of them have the credentials you have maybe a high school equivalency in their back pocket.
Please, please make a video about grounding loops.
Look up Bill Whitlock (Quad-Eight, Jensen Transformers, former AES President). If you have an AES membership you can watch a two hour presentation he does on the subject but if not the powerpoints are out there freely available in PDF format. There are two of them, just search "bill whitlock ground loop" on google and you'll find them.
I was going to order power cables from GR but then I tried the Encore XLS speaker kit build. Unimpressed with the Encores when compared to my home built open baffle design loud speakers, I opted out of the power cord upgrade.
Subscribing to premium electricity from your utility company makes a bigger difference.
what about if you have a power conditioner and then from there to component ?
Having good shielding around the RCA interconnect cables between your source and your preamplifier matters the most, because that signal is soon going to be AMPLIFIED. Any noise in that signal will be amplified too.
Hello.
Do you have a video on power conditioners/line filters, lately I've been a bit obsessed with the idea, even though part of me doesn't really think it will make an audible difference.
I just bought a good surge protector to protect my equipment, and it's supposed to have basic voltage regulation and EMI/RFI filtering, along with surge suppression, but is a good power conditioner beneficial in terms of sound quality?
This is hands down the most honest and accurate info on power cables I've seen. Thank you! Not much else I could add that you didn't cover already. Cheers!
I use good surge suppressors to keep peaks from killing my components, but if I have no issue powering my 800 watt rms bass amp or my 100 watt guitar half-stack, I have a hard time believing that if it's thick enough to handle the load, I seriously doubt it will make a difference in my stereo. My issues come from shielding and properly placing the input cables to get rid of EMI. Moving my input cables away from EMI transmitters makes a big difference, especially when I'm pushing the front end of my amp.
Your channel is fantastic!
Which cables will make a diff ? Interconnects or speaker cables etc?
Interconnects and speaker cable do make a difference.
Great video. I like your reference to UL. I want to further point out another scam here. Some power cord vendors will buy OEM UL listed plugs and even IEC connectors. Then they claim "see our power cord is UL listed". WRONG! As you probably know Gene, replacement or OEM connectors are only UL listed by them selves. That listing does not extend to the entire cord assembly. In order to have a legally listed power cord, the entire assembled product must be submitted for testing. Just using UL listed plugs doesn't cut it. And what is scary is the unknown raw wire they use? Is it rated and listed for AC line voltage application?
And another issue are these UL listed OEM plugs and wall outlets that are then re-plated with some exotic metal or cryo treated by the cable charlatans. Any listed electrical product that is modified beyond the OEM's instructions is no longer listed. That UL stamp on a modified plug or wall outlet now means nothing once it's re-plated or cryo treated. Harmless? You tell me? How was it plated? Is the plating metal compatible with the OEM surface plating or will it flake off over time and cause a metalized conductive track? Did the cryo treatment weaken the plastic to where the outlet or plug can split apart when connected exposing live terminals?
Audiophile power cables do make a big difference in sound quality. But if gear in your system is not high-end, there will certainly be a bottleneck that will mask any sound improvement. In order to avoid that, just connect these wonders directly between the speakers and an high end AC conditioner and purifier. And you will see! If that's not the case, it's probably because you forgot the cable riser!
You should join the Religious Order of Power Cable Placebo, you're a perfect disciple...
Cable risers? Mannnn you kiddin'? my friends had those things all around their houses, I asked one diehard self-proclaimed audiophile when was the last time he's been on the couch (head doctor) lol.
@@ecstasy5317 One audiophile invited me at his house. He had very high end $200,000 speakers. In order to maintain the signal path as short as possible, and avoid noisy and distorting amplifier, he connected the speakers (using $20,000 per feet high end power cables) directly to the AC Outlet.
I was trying to stop him, but he said: "the ideal amplifier is a wire with a gain. And since the gain of these wonders is limited to 1, you need the full power of the AC outlet and some good cable riser in order to really appreciate the sound".
And it was at that moment that suddenly, just a few seconds after his sentence, I've heard the most realistic explosion I've ever experienced. It was so realistic that you could also see the flames coming out of the speakers, and feel the smell of something burning.
So please stop arguing about cable risers and good power cables!
What about cleaner current, does it improve audio
A power conditioner can help they filter out line noise.
@@poserwannabe1 If the component manufacturers design in *good power supplies,* it is the PS's job to do all of this BS.
You power cable upgrade is not complete unless you add the Mapleshade Floor Trestles ($55), Mapleshade Wall Trestles and Mapleshade Traid Cable Lifts to keep those wires off the floor.
Gene what are your thoughts on power conditioners?
@StringerNews1 thanks for info, I was about to buy one myself
Hi, what is a good quality power strip? Thanks
AudioQuest Niagara 1200. It has none sacrificial surge protection and will condition your sound, filtering out any unwanted noise from shared circuits etc.
Maybe organize a double blind test with a few audiophile people who know their music very well and bring their own tracks and source gear....also with the proper gear to switch instantaneously. That will be something..the debate will be put to rest😆
I mostly agree with the idea that good standard power cables are fine enough. Still my question would be : so measurements don’t show apparent improvements. But do those that measure measure the right thing ? Another question I have is : Why are medical, space or military grades power cables manufactured if that would not bring improvements to the equipment behind ?
Medical and military equipment power cords are designed to be rugged and in some cases pass lots of current for high power devices. There's no magic in how they are designed. My $40k Audio Precision Analyzer that measured > 130dB SINAD used a standard power cable you get with consumer audio gear. No magic.
I am not an audiophile to open this up. I use a 200 watt Sunfire amplifier that to this day I enjoy. I'm 55 so my hearing is not what it used to be. On my amplifier is a joule VU style meter which measures incoming power. It sits dead steady at 390 joules. I switch cords and it's 390. So zero power flow increase. And I cannot hear a difference. I hear more by removing my speaker grills. Thanks for the video.
That Sunfire was a beautiful component series, when I first saw the preamp and power amp combo I liked it just as much as the beautiful sounding and looking Classe audio systems. 💎👍
What about the gage of speaker wires? Is 14 gage plenty for normal runs?
www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/speaker-wire-gauge
Powercords , Usb cables, intercons, power conditioner etc can have a positiv impact on the audio quality.
I trust my ears, if something contributes a positv it stays.
is it possible to shield a power cord to make it okay to be operating next to signal cables?
Gene, we appreciate you. You have saved us thousands of dollars.
Should I upgrade my power Cord on my 1969 Yamaha cr2020?
It's pretty old.
Thanks
If "audiophiles" were actually concerned with real measurements as well as the actual limitations of human audio physiology, there would be 90% less companies out there hawking products designed for and marketed to fools.
Did you measure difference between music servers / streamers powered by linear power supplies vs switching power supplies vs hybrid power supplies?
no but I've measured amplifiers with various type of power supplies. SMPS has come a long way and are just as viable as linear supplies now, if done correctly.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and knowledge. You should make a video about isolation feet for Hi-Fi components. That would be interesting
Thanks for the video. I agree with most of your views, but what about the impact of the EMI from the power cable to the other low voltage cables and/or sensitive components that might be in close proximity eg a DAC near Amp power chord
This is why a properly designed power supply is important. Not a power cable. As long as the cable is UL and is capable of delivering the current needed, that is all that is needed.
Any good interconnect cable will have a properly applied shield surrounding the audio conductors, without costing you silly amounts of money. Long-time manufacturers of cables, such as Belden and Mogami have such good cabling, available for OEM, and they don't cost as much as a luxury car either! The markups on some audiophile cables are truly insane. Equipment, like DACs, phone preamps, etc should also have a metallic case connected to properly implemented grounding. Any small net amount of 60 Hz (+ related harmonics and previously picked up rf junk signals) radiating from a power cable conducting high (60 Hz component) demanded current would then be inconsequential.
Gene, I would like to say how much I appreciate your solid "logical" work in the Audio/Video world. I am an EE also "from long, long ago" and get so tired of the claims by some companies. Thank you for exposing them and showing the truth based on solid engineering principles. As an aside, I first came across one of your videos on UA-cam several years ago and you had a cutout of Spock and Kirk beside you in the background. I instantly thought "I should listen to this guy" as I am a original Trekkie. I was just entering the 7th grad in the first season. When they were going to cancel the series after the second season, I was one of those Nerds who wrote a letter to NBC to not cancel, which we won and did get a 3rd season. I hope it was okay that I posted your videos when you had COVID-19 to show people what it was really like . Those videos were very helpful and I was very happy when you recovered. Again, keep up the good work.
Billy
Offcourse that sellout pretend he have covid, cause he is sellout and a lier.He is lieing about audio for years.
@@billyshows5675 You know Gene deserves it.Better have low manures than be a lier and sellout.
If he was a human, i would treat him like a human.But he is a ****.
So UL is not mandatory? Any rules?
I have played with power cables, and yes going from the supplied cable to a £35 upgrade did make a difference. I think this is down to the low quality and thin cable that came with it. I then tried at £300 cable and this made no difference that was obvious. Replaying the wall socket also helped but not as an upgrade, but due to the old one had got damp. The point being is knowing what your kit needs to perform and checking these things are in place.
Gene makes all the rational arguments, however he overlooks some truths that can affect sound quality in a high quality listening system. As just 1 example, all power cords act to a greater or lesser extent as both an antenna and a filter. Both can affect the SQ, even with a short length between the wall and your component. Second, connectors matter ALOT. High quality power cords use much better connectors, metal welding techniques instead of soldered connections, copper and gold instead of steel, and tigher fitment with the IEC connector. All of which can affect the SQ in a high quality system. Third, purer copper as well as gauge and geometry all can make significant AND MEASURABLE differences to the performance of the cable, and thus the SQ based on how it interacts with your specific electronics. Thatis partly why this topic is so subjective....everyone's system is different electrically, acoustically, and qualitatively. It's well established AND MEASURABLE that resistance, capacitance, and inductance all have an effect on SQ in a high quality system. Nice try Gene, but respectfully, you need to re-think your simplistic position. You are misleading alot of people out there with your opinion.
You’re just making bald assertions, and comically responding to “all the rational arguments” with “truths”. Where are the rational arguments and measurements for the “truths”, or are the only arguments left irrational ones? If it’s the latter, we’re talking about faith. This stuff gets into the realm of religion, astonishingly enough.
We’re talking about power cables here. Did you happen to miss the entire part of the video where he explained the power supply? The power cable delivers AC into the power supply of your device, which converts AC to DC, the process of which filters out anything you might be worried about, basically by definition. The rest of the circuit is powered by whatever unvarying DC current that was generated by the component’s power supply. The 60hz AC and whatever might have ridden in with it is long “forgotten” by the time you’re in the circuit. But lets say you’re right: the thing is, if the component requires 3ft of fancy power cable to do its best job, then it’s a failed design (not “high-quality”), and was never worthwhile in the first place. If you think it’s worthwhile to put a $100-5000 power cable on an amp with a broken power supply, well it’s your money.
I agree that connectors are important and must be sufficient to task, but they are hardly high technology or worth any great deal of money. It seems pretty safe to assume good-quality manufacturers are going to use power cables that don’t have faulty connectors.
Similarly, yes, good internal connections are important, but what real difference do fancy “metal welding techniques” make over normal techniques, solder or otherwise, especially given the receptacle you’re shoving that fancy plug into has *screwed-on* connections to romex behind it, not to mention at the power panel, at the sub-station, and untold other connections upstream?
All that said, I do own some aftermarket power cables, but only as seldom-seen “jewelry” to dress up the appearance of the system. They look good, feel nice in the hand, and get the job done. I just don’t kid myself that they do anything more than that.
And even more said, I know this was all a waste of time to type in. Sometimes I can’t help myself. You do you and I wish you continued happiness with your setup. At least we can agree we like to listen to music - and I bet you have a cool system :-)
Absolute load of garbage. Be better. Get educated , or stop lying !
I'm going to very politely disagree. I do understand this plays with the guys that critique audiofools and to the measurement crowd. And my counter is the question do different components in an electrical (audio) component sound different? For example do engineers and audio designers hear differences between capacitors of the same value but manufactured differently? The answers are yes, of course they do. Nelson Pass and others talk about the sound of various circuits and components. They switch out bits and listen to them in circuits and decide what to include and exclude based on cost and sound quality. You get the end result of that design process. Of course it includes measurement and testing but a lot of listening. Audio amplifiers are designed with different types of feedback and the types of feedback used and in what ratios, global and local change the sound as well as stability of the amplifiers. We buy those results and we all agree we can hear differences between different amplifiers, integrated amps which again are based on design choices which included listening and yes the bias of the designer. We can hear differences in rooms, anechoic chambers sound different then home listening rooms and if you have four friends with four different listening rooms each room will sound different. You won't need a measurement to tell you that. Then all of a sudden when we get to cables, which after all are only electrical components, we claim we can't or shouldn't hear differences. These cables are constructed differently, are drawn from different metals, may include varied amounts of different metals, different shielding, different terminations (again all electrical components) but somehow the measurement crowd says, well I couldn't measure a difference and all of a sudden though our ears and brains are sophisticated enough to hear differences between a compendium of electrical choices our gear represent, the rooms we listen in, etc. they are not sophisticated enough to hear differences in cables. All I can say is that you are wrong and the angst this perspective brings to the table is the result of pricing choices made in a capitalistic economic system. I get that many things are way way over priced, but unfortunately this is a market problem. We have allowed our market to become bifurcated by income and seduced by our desires for luxury into overpaying for gear that ought to be more reasonably priced. But that fact that many cables cost too damn much does not mean they all sound the same, nor does it mean that because engineers haven't figure out a way to measure these differences yet that they don't exist. Engineering schools by in large teach their students that electricity is electricity and wire is wire it's probably the first thing they learn in school. By the time they graduate they have absorbed this mantra so much that it has become a paradigm. They are stuck in it and they can not measure their way out of it and so it persists. As an audiophile in the hobby for more than 35 years and also selling audio gear for more than 20 years, I have heard different renditions of this over and over again. I would say to you all trust your ears with your gear and your cables. You are always looking for synergy to get the best out your gear. The engineers that built your gear have gone through similar processes of listening when choosing components, designing power supplies etc and so should you with cables and watch your own wallets not everybody else's. I have built my own power cables using different wire and different terminations and they sound different. I saved a lot of money doing so and I would suggest you try it as well. Lastly, even with Ul certification not every cable is inspected, in the same way not every slaughtered chicken in inspected. If you don't feel comfortable building your own cables then just stick with stock but if you try various cables you can at least tune the sound differently, at the end of the day whether something sounds better or worse will be a subjective one which may or may not be also measurable. The last issue I want to address is this issue of noise, the wire coming into the house versus the cables you use to connect your equipment. Obviously there is a lot of noise on the grid and yes to varying degrees equipment is designed to filter out some of that noise. The diagram was nice but to not point out that the choices engineers make in designing those components that filter noise have implications for each piece of gear's ability to filter out that noise. Not everyone builds a robust set of filters into their gear due to market based price constraints for the piece being designed. The noise to be most concerned with is in your own house, The number of computers, network based devices, refrigerators, freezers, poorly designed lights etc, all bring more noise, a properly designed power cable (I put ferrite cores on all of my own hand built power cables) So a power cord can help as a first filter if long enough and designed well and then can change the sound depending on the metals used as one example. copper versus silver or combined sound differently in your system and may or may not help you find synergy in your gear but you have to listen to it to decide. Lastly, it is not the cost of the wire that matters. I have heard really expensive cables that I did not think sounded better or were not synergistic in my system and if the cost of something is way out of proportion as many things are these days than just don't buy it. The price thing won't be corrected until the economy gets corrected which unfortunately, I don't see happening anytime soon but that is a different conversation...
Can't say your not passionate about the topic!🤓😎
You’re so right. Good powercables made my system go to another level. The level I didn’t expect to reach with the gear I have
Elton, that is perhaps the most intelligent post that I have seen on audio discussions. Seriously. And you have nothing to sell. I will think about this next time I buy a cable or eat chicken. Cheers.
I think you explained it very well. I thought the audiophile world was all BS until I bought my 1st McIntosh pre-amp and amp. Wow, night and day difference from my $2k Yamaha. Then I tried several power cables from $75-600 dollar range. Had a party with about 6 of my friends, did a blind test with stock vs upgrades PC's. Everyone in the room heard the difference. I guess we are a full of sh** according to this crew!!
Dang! I was hoping to see the word "synergistic" right away, but you made me wait till the end. Well played, sir. By the way, Walmart has a sale on tin foil. Better hurry!.
In my house, there is 35m of wire length inside the walls between the fuse box and the power outlet where my AMP is plugged it on 3rd floor. This should illustrate the insignificance of the need for any "audiophile power cable".
Spare Change had an interview yesterday with Garth Powell about how great the AQ cables with batteries are.
Puke
batteries included ... for the movie only 😉
They are really good. I bought a used pair of Rocket 88 cables with the 48V DBS. Biggest improvement in my system.
are iso tek great power cables im planing to replace my audioquest with them
That guy in Japan would beg to differ, he had the power company give him a dedicated power line into his house lol
future shock There is a guy near New Haven, CT who has his own transformer pad on property. And if I remember correctly, it’s 3 phase too.
But not for “clean” power... but actual POWER! I wish I could find the article, I read it mid to late 2000’s. He has over 20 vacuum tube amps powering 30 tower speakers. His average annual power bill was $200,000 at the time.
That video is legendary, any link to the wsj full video ?
The Internetwanderer
OMG, I’m laughing so hard right now!
@@robertsteich7362 lmfao get out
Does the power company supplies him with DC or AC 😂
My Cool Music DM100 didn't come with a power chord. Where can I buy one.
In my system better quality power chords DO make a huge difference. Its audible and repeatable. However it works it does work. So completely don't agree with you.
Answering a question from somewhere below.
Pull a 20 amp home run from the panel. Remember the breaker is there to protect the wire from overloading, it's not there to protect whatever equipment is on the circuit. One 20 amp circuit generally has 10 outlets on it so if you run a dedicated line with a double box your good and make sure to use 20 amp outlets. If you have ground issues and your line in is flown look outside by your meeter and make sure the green ground wire is connected to the copper rod they drove in the ground.
Always interesting with these debunking videos, thank you for making them. A video on ground loop-issues would be very much appreciated Gene! :)
Did you do this with dacs?