Ironically I think most people missed the point of Neo Metal. He essentially represents Metal Sonic's identity crisis; the realization that he is nothing more than a clone of Sonic and is not his own person is what drove him to madness. It's why he betrayed Eggman, why he gave himself a voice, why he turned himself into a hulking kaiju. He is trying to distance himself from Sonic and become his own person. Just listen to his dialogue in the boss fight, or hell even the lyrics to "What I'm Made Of". It's honestly kind of genius and a really cool thing for a kid's video game to do, to this day its probably his most interesting portrayal in a Sonic game.
Neo Metal Sonic is probably my favorite Sonic villain because his whole thing seemed about gaining individuality with the addition of dominance. Imagine your whole identity being just a copy of someone else and your only motivation is just to surpass the original. Neo Metal lifted those limitations by showing that his skills/intelligence make him more than just a lacky and just as menacing as Eggman if not more.
Metal (both his Neo and normal variants) was probably the one and only Sonic villain that had the most character development and impact as a proper rival to Sonic, Eggman just hates Sonic for destroying his machines, Infinite hates Sonic for some reason, Shadow hates Sonic because he thinks Sonic is the fake, but Metal Sonic hates Sonic because he believes he’s the original, not the copy, and in IDW, after almost 30 years of thinking the same thing, Metal had to come to terms with him being the copy, which is honestly really sad, unlike Shadow’s “death” or Blaze’s disappearance in 06, you can just feel Metal’s thoughts through wordless panels on paper
@SoundwaveSuperior6969 Infinite and his jackals were essentially Eggman messing with mad science by creating super soldiers in his final judgement lab, and pretty much giving them fake memories to let them show their capabilities in their mercenary careers, which almost ends up killing him like always. Basically a Shadow born without his own power source.
it took me a little while to appreciate infinite. at first i thought he was a poorly written character, but i looked at it more, and i kinda understood him more. it’s like, you have someone who acts all cool and tough that’s super edgy, but under the mask hes just a whiny loser. it’s actually kinda genius, he’s all serious till he gets bested and everyone sees how lame he actually is
I agree, Infinite was basically someone who acted edgier than Shadow. That's cool part, and his voice is great. But like ya said, only the mask makes him look cool, he's only a loser under the edgy as hell mask and triggered because the old Edgiest character from Sonic (Shadow) called him weak.
Infinite basically had two backstories in Forces. The writers wanted him to be a creation of Eggman before changing him to a mercenary. I think his petty backstory works in concept but it needs to be expanded on. There are villains out there with petty motivations that are written really well. TLDR: Some people in real life are evil for no reason or for petty reasons. If written correctly, petty villains can be intimidating if you show how batshit insane they are.
@@radmilastupar4235 that’s part of it. Both that and Shadow calling him weak triggered him. (But he never got out of the whiny loser phase and without his mask he don’t do nothing)
I can definitely understand why you left out the comic lore. Zavok was written WAY better in IDW. While only Master Zik seemed to rise above being a mere stereotype out of the supporting cast, Zavok was on a whole other level. In IDW, Zavok is intimidating, menacing, and actually seems like a legitimate threat. It probably helps that, being depicted on paper, you could imagine a much better voice than the games present. Also, you never have to see that weird mouth he has. The comic just never shows it, which is a huge plus, in my opinion.
@Austin Jenner The voice isn't bad, but I can imagine something more fitting for the character. Something deeper and more menacing would be my preference, but that's just my opinion. I imagine everyone who reads the comics has their own way of interpreting the voices.
@@M3G4T3RR4 I didn't see it when I last paged through the comics. I'll have to go back and look again. At the very least, it isn't as common as it is in the games.
Good lord. I’m sorry but your take on Neo Metal Sonic. Your opinion on him rlly boils down to “he’s different from the Metal Sonic I’m used to so I don’t like him” which is somewhat the point of this whole form. Metal Sonic is so determined to prove his superiority that he literally evolves. It’s a great direction to take his character in
About The End being seen as the Moon, Sonic has this friend who's into fortune cards, maybe he was unwillingly informed about Tarot symbology. The moon card is a really bad time, the moon is what stares down at you when you're lost and stranded in the night, it symbolizes the cruelty of Nature when you're at your most vulnerable. So, very fitting.
Keep in mind that Tails Skypatrol was originally a Disney game, Wendy originally intended to be the Snow White Queen's witch form. Also magic and fantasy existing in the main Sonic universe is not too disruptive, maybe as a third party between nature and technology?
I like that they tried to introduce more variations of villains, i just wish they made Wendy important, not just a witch on a minecart. Also, i really like how they dealt with her in archie comics
Fun fact: Fang/Nack isn't a weasel - that was a weird localization choice... He's actually a Jerboa, but was later retconed as part wolf, making him the first hybrid in the series.
While I don’t fully agree with your lists, I do appreciate you explaining why your list is the way it is and giving good reasons that actually changed my perspective on a couple of these villains. While Mephiles is my top favorite Sonic villain. I’m afraid of SEGA possibly bringing him back since I feel that his character may get lost in the newer games or that he won’t be the same. While I’m not as worried now since we now have a writer who understands Sonic lore, I’m still a bit concerned that he could still be ruined. This is the same company that tries to Shadow as an antagonist when he isn’t anymore.
Just wanted to say, I love your puppet design. It reminds me of the blues clues characters that looked like they were made with felt or arts and craft materials
You should make a list of your favorite depictions of Dr. Robotnik/Eggman in the Sonic series. You could lump together the various iterations (Adventure, Boom, Boost, etc.), but I'd personally like to see each game and show rated separately. Robotnik was different between Adventure 1 and Adventure 2, after all. Ultimately, it's up to you what you want to do.
To this day, I still believe that the best way to bring Infinite back and do him justice would be on Ian jr's debut game, that would just make sense...
A lot of people have already mentioned Neo Metal Sonic's actual motives and drive, and I add to that when I say I feel that's really made most potent BY the fact normal Metal is supposed to cross as fed up, tired, and generally just exhausted by his role under Robotnik. The thing that makes Neo Metal Sonic WORK in heroes is that it's his personal identity, his desire to be MORE, that's what shines through there. I'm not going to beat around the bush though, Sonic Heroes and its writing did this idea basically no favors with Neo being obscured for most of the game and never directly interacting with the main cast outside of the final story, and he only goes over his feelings in the middle of final battle. I feel it best encapsulates the idea of Metal Sonic as a whole, and that, as a raw villain? He's actually kind of bad. He's more intimidating appearance-wise, but that's why you really only feel bad for him. Many other characters are ABLE to transcend their original motives, their vision, change how the world perceives them. Metal on the other hand has none of that. Whether he is wrung under Robotnik's control fully, or operating on his own, the undeniable part of his existence, that even he is well aware of himself, is that he is and always will be an inferior version of Sonic. Neo Metal is this breaking through, is a desperate cry to be something else. I think that's why he takes the form of Metal Overlord by the end. There's a deeper part of him trying to ESCAPE the part of him that is Sonic, but he's so conflicted because fighting Sonic is all he had ever known. He has to prove to himself he IS better, that he can be more than Sonic. He's tragically bound by the limitations of his being in one way or another that he's frequently STUCK in this loop that prevents him from being himself and just remaining an inferior Sonic.
Another good reason why Mephiles is better than The End and Infinite is because he actually KILLED SONIC (although temporarily) but still did what no other villains couldn’t do.
Honestly I like the "concept" of Wendy Witchcart. It's a basic idea of technology versus magic which if the character gets utilized in the future, could bring an added layer of how both affect the word around them. Cause, nowadays I don't exactly think there are a lot of magic-users in the world of Sonic, at least in the modern-games. So introducing a character that dabbles in those kinds of mystical/strange arts against Tails who's moreso grounded in the "real-world" with technology, could bring up an interesting dynamic.
I hope we see Shadow back as a serious anti-hero with more humanity than he likes to admit, instead of a simple edgelord rival to Sonic. The dark hedgehog used to be so much smarter, cunning, and complex. He wasn’t that deep, but he wasn’t tragic and edgy for the sake of it either. Sonic may seem more empathetic and caring compared to Shadow, but Shadow does care, he just has reasons for not being so open. He takes his job seriously because he doesn’t want anyone else to suffer like Maria did, and he’ll do whatever it takes to keep the world safe, even if it means utterly destroying his enemies.
Honestly when I heard The End and Mephiles are very similar I was about to argue otherwise until I thought about what they both did and yeah they’re actually pretty similar, still not sure if The End was meant to be something for people who wanted Mephiles back I think that might’ve just been a coincidence but yeah Anyway my favorites are definitely Metal Sonic and Mephiles (I’m not counting Shadow in most of SA2 and Knuckles in most of Sonic 3&K), both of them highlighting what’s great about Sonic and Shadow, Metal being devoid of life where Sonic is full of it and feeling like everything Sonic is making sure he doesn’t become and Mephiles being like the devil of Shadow’s shoulder constantly trying to make him turn on his friends and allies only for Shadow to refuse every time and it’s always great in my opinion
Neo Metal Sonic's story actually perfectly fits what you're describing. He drives himself insane trying to beat Sonic and prove himself as both a unique and superior individual. Just go back to his boss fight dialogue. Mephiles the Dark is a uniquely fairy tale villain. He's the boogieman in the dark, the shadow stalking the princess and her knight. He doesn't work in another context because you would have to so drastically alter the character it would no longer be Mephiles. He shouldn't come back. They can't do him justice without repeating themselves and they know it. Infinite really shouldn't be graded as high as he based on potential alone. Most characters have potential, but few realize it. Melina was definitely a better villain writing wise.
So, believe it or not, people theorized that when Sonic was fighting the End, he (Sonic) saw Mephilis as the End's form because he was the only villain to successfully kill him.
if one villain could come back i would love to have infinite in execution he wasnt a good villain but as you said he had potential with a little bit of retcon he could become a very interesting villain
Infinite is basically Eggman’s project Shadow. Originally just a prototype to eventually create a final creation with a uniquely powerful source. But then he accidentally bumps into his maker, allies with him, and finds out sooner and later that his mercenary life that he and the jackals had was a forgery (final judgment has the jackal lab). Then Shadow proceeds to end any semblance of Zero as a casual gun mission. There was no one left for Zero to carry on. Only scars of him remained of who he was. Basically, he and Sage are meant to be top dogs that can fly on their own, with completely different backgrounds to link them to Eggman.
I really cant wait for more sonic prime. Im hoping we could get some proper background on rusty roses backstory since shes the only one of sonics friends in that universe thats a villain turned into a cyborg. Im excited for a lot of other things that show could introduce, like super sonic potentially because of shadow finding a chaos emerald
I'd like to see the SatAM Robotnik show up in Prime and just take over everything. It's never going to happen, unless they want to completely change the tone going forward, but maybe that's for the best. The Council of Eggmen just doesn't feel like a competent ruling body to me.
I don't know. On one hand, yeah he is cool. However that would mean demands for Sally and Freedom Fighters would skyrocket. And we all know what type of mine field that can be Edit: I must have missed reading. My bad
@@maciejas2471 Satam Robotnik can and should be in Prime, same with Sally etc, there's a large demand for these characters and it's mind boggling that a show by Wildbrain, that's about essentially the multiverse, doesn't have any of them, they'd sell far more than the lame alternatives in Prime. There's nothing wrong with the demand for those characters rising.
If they made neo have more of base metal sonic’s personality instead of just being a evil overlord, lean a bit more into his identity crisis, and let us fight the neo form instead of just bootleg perfect chaos. He would have been one of the best sonic villains.
Has a big fan of infinite, I'm happy people are starting to at least think he isn't bad. I will admit has a fan, his backstory should've been better but the reason why I love the character unironically is because he reminds me of a late 2000s edgy cartoon character(not edgelord just edgy) and I like edgy characters but also his design,voice and powers are cool too. To me, he's the reason why I somehow enjoy sonic forces. But again, I do agree that he could've been better
It’s less that he has a bad backstory and it’s more like they didn’t fully explain it despite it making a lot of sense with his song and why he views his life as zero to be an illusion (he was created by Eggman to live this manufactured life, similar to Shadow having his memories altered to make his life about killing everyone.
I think if sonic 06 were well animated, the mascot suit effect could fit well with Mephiles, it could be even more scary comparing him with the rest of the characters if they had a good animation.
For all the reasons you mentioned, I agree that Shadow does deserve to be in the #1 spot on this list. I think that Movie Shadow may likely get shown more like the SA2 version of him instead of like an edgeloard, especially because I've heard that the director, (Jeff Fowler,) is a big fan of that character and even worked on the CGI movie production of Shadow's own 2005 spin-off game. He likely knows a good amount about what that character was originally like, and from being a fan he may possibly not want Shadow to be written wrongly in it. They said that they will be adapting an amount of elements from SA2 into that highly anticipated upcoming movie, so that could help too.
The closest I can think of about “eggman who won” is the SATAM robotnik where he already is the dictator of the world and sonic and his friends were the freedom fighters trying to overthrow him. Kinda like the galactic empire vs the rebel alliance in Star Wars. Edit not to mention he’s actually pretty menacing and evil on that show.
Mephiles could work well as essentially Shadows metal sonic, a recurring dark reflection style villain, having him rise out of shadows... Shadow every once in a while to manipulate and shit talk him would bring a good spook factor
I was mad that Mephiles is so low but then I saw that you put Villain Shadow/Knuckles in the top 2 and saw it was more acceptable. Me personally I'd still put Mephiles as second only to Eggman himself, but Villain Shadow is great too.
I personally would have to disagree about Neo Metal Sonic. To me, I think it was rather interesting seeing Metal Sonic’s drive to defeat sonic, no matter the cost take into it the logical extreme. To fill his sole purpose, he concluded that he had to conquer the Eggman empire. With all of the resources he now had he devised a plan to replicate the powers of the heroes and unlike his maniacal creator, metal sonic was smart enough to keep himself hidden until all the preparation‘s were made. I especially like how metal sonic is finally able to speak. Although I normally like metal sonic being voiceless has a way of mirroring how sonic uses wisecracks, it is nice seeing how metal truly feels about things. and as a final note, although I agree, it would’ve been awesome just to fight neo, metal sonic in his base form, and argue. The metal overlord is almost a mirror of supersonic. They’re both the ultimate forms of these rivals, oh, and sonic harnesses his true power he becomes a golden god, while metal sonic becomes a hideous, metallic monster.
I could not agree less about Neo Metal, Heroes gave him so much more character and motivation. I think it fits perfectly with Metal Sonic, He isnt just some pawn to Eggman to do his every bidding, he’a a deeply complex character struggling through an identity crisis as to what he’s supposed to be, and thats what Neo spawned from - a breaking point. He couldn’t take it anymore. His base character cannot speak and his emotions can be misread, in his Neo form he can. That’s where we truly learn his motivations. He didn’t change suddelt, we were just able to suddenly understand him because he could now tell us directly how he felt
Shadow is easily the most complex character in the entire franchise that i wish Sega would just expand upon him. He is the most "human" of any Sonic character and as the ultimate life form has the most potential for growth. I would love a game where you do missions for G.U.N. but see more of Shadow's personal life and reflecting on his actions as well as struggling to prove himself and that he is not the villain or threat humanity sees him as. Play off what Mephiles tells Shadow that no matter how hard he tries, humanity will betray and persecute him in the future due to distrust and his power.
Dark gaia, iblis and Biolizard are just giant mojsters with a back lore, there's not much about them, only "we need to destroy them otherwise they'll destroy the world. On the other hand, why were the metarex left aside? It's a crime.
Wouldn't it be interesting if there was a future game where Infinite and The End both returned and teamed up? Infinite having been used and cast aside by Eggman for his failure, seeking revenge on both Sonic and Eggman. Meanwhile The End, weakened from its defeat in Frontiers, manipulates and empowers Infinite to aid him in his revenge and ultimately use him as a vessel to continue its relentless desire for destruction. Plus their names just kinda match in an antithetical way.
Fan fact when frontires was developing one of the test music for one of boss fights was infinite s theme maybe it was just testing what type of music will match with the boss but maybe they had a plan somehow add the jackal in newer games but they scared because of the hate that forces gots n decide never touch the weak one maybe for long or he can be gone forever
I’ve always believed that if you changed one thing about infinite, it would’ve made him 1000x more interesting, just make him the Sonic equivalent of the Scarecrow from Batman. Don’t just have Have him conjure any illusions, have him conjure illusions of peoples fears. It’d make him a lot more intimidating as basic every character would be challenged since they’d have to face their innate fears but it’d make everyone else more interesting as well seeing their fears. Hell, he practically sounds like Scarecrow
Mephiles is probably my favourite Sonic villain, but Shadow is easily one of the best characters. There is definitely a lot more potential for him in the future. I'm really looking forwards to seeing him in action in Sonic 3, and if they follow up Frontiers, I'd love to see what they could do with him there as well after all the incredible work they did with Amy, Knuckles and Tails!
Sad there are no Archie villains despite many of them are remembered by fanbase. For example, Regina Ferrum, her arc was one of the strongest, Mogul the Mammoth is a great gray-moral manipulator, and Scourge who is still ADORED by many people.
From what i could tell rusty was the result of Amy trying to survive new yoke by fighting back, slowly turning herself into a robot and eventually being hacked by the chaos council
Glad that someone else wants Infinite to return, he has loads of potential, especially if he was flushed out. Also jackals are my favourite animals so that’s also a plus
Sonic vs. the End keeps reminding me of this exchange from Gaiman's "The Sandman," when Choronzon and Dream are playing "The Oldest Game." Choronzon: I am anti-life, the beast of judgement. I am the dark at the end of everything-- gods, worlds, universes, everything. Sss. And what will you be, Dreamlord? Dream: I am hope. Choronzion: I... I... I don't know. As for Shadow, I think Sega keeps wanting to make him an anti-hero, but they don't know how to do it consistently and he just keeps coming across as a jerk.
Neo Metal Sonic is the BEST Metal. Yeah he’s supposed to mirror Sonic. But Neo Metal is best because it’s Metal becoming MORE than just a robotic version or Sonic. It’s him finding his own identity. Becoming a better menace than Eggman. Edit: Bruh, Infinite is in honorable mentions but his whole backstory is that he lost to Shadow, and that was his breaking point. Dude threw a hissy fit and it was one of the cringiest things ever. You put him in honorable mentions yet Neo Metal is in worst?
About the witch, like i have to agree that she dont have that much with the sonic universe (until the comics made her more fitting) and a contrast with tails i think the way the tails we know now in days is different than the tails was back in the day where he was just a kid side kick unless tails adventure was out early than skypatrol. But the witch sucks? Yeah she kinda sucks for being a villan but i think she can be a nice comic relief in "classic games era" if they continue making mania games
Okay here are my 3 favourite Sonic Antagonists/Villains: 1. SAGE (She does what Infinite don´t) 2. Metal Sonic (The Fact that even Sonic 4 didn´t flandarize him is astounding) 3. Fang The Sniper (I love how he played a better Role in the 16-Bit Version despite not having played it yet)
I wonder if a good youtube video would be Eggman Henchman. Someone for Eggman/Robotnik to monologuing to tier list. Sage Orbot & cubot Bocoe &Decoe Scratch &Grounder Snively Agent Stone Likely more
I personally, absolutely adore The Ends concept. It was dumb at first until I realized, this thing killed a highly advanced civilization all on its own. And the idea of it looking different to everyone is awesome. Just wish the fight was better but I hope to see the concept of it, and the Starfall island in general, to be expanded upon
People are going to hate me for saying this but, I like zavok. I can't deny how dumb he becomes later in lost world. Pretty sure he forgets that the lost hex is his home not sonics. I guess sonic colonised it.
8:07-8:12 Why did Naugus have to catch a stray like that. I think he’s a pretty cool villain. Also this has had magical concepts in it before so what’s wrong with having straight up witches and wizards in the Sonic franchise?
Don't forget Mephiles also has a Monstrous Form when he empowered up with his darkness. Creating a giant body to control. He can also show laser from his cyclops eye.
Also Mephiles in his Crystal form is bloody terrifying and not to mention he's voiced by Dan Green the same actor as Knuckles so hearing him as Mephiles is amazing not to mention that crazy and long evil laughter in the opening of the last episode that gave me goosebumps alongside that 4th wall breaking stare before that ooh this guy just screams evil and I love it
I don't think the Eggman in Sonic Prime is THE Eggman. I think he was split into multiple beings that represent aspects of his psyche, there isn't a sole leader of the group that represents the actual Eggman. He doesn't even have the memories of his former self.
I agree on Zavok and 6 being worst villains in a Modern Sonic revamp of Sonic X-treme. Zavok and others are so forgettable. Zavok is litteraly the only "Deadly" 6 I can remember.
I would disagree on your opinion with Neo Metal Sonic. I think ti is brilliant for Metal to become a being of his own as he has at that moment, completely compromised the reason of his creation and I think him using the power of the Gods to become stronger than Sonic would be a brilliant idea.
What about nine he is a dark version of tails n what willl happen whith him if he never met sonic n was continue bulled by other antropormorphic animals n become closed n angry person who rejects evryone n at the end he gets a redemption n helps sonic to restore the shatterverse and I agree rusty rose is also a great vilian that the fact that the original amy rose is my favorite character n it was intresting to see her reverse version like usaly multiverse does whith known characters but I think whith nine it works more better n deeper but still this two furys work allot better than all the chaos council brought together
Ironically I think most people missed the point of Neo Metal. He essentially represents Metal Sonic's identity crisis; the realization that he is nothing more than a clone of Sonic and is not his own person is what drove him to madness. It's why he betrayed Eggman, why he gave himself a voice, why he turned himself into a hulking kaiju. He is trying to distance himself from Sonic and become his own person. Just listen to his dialogue in the boss fight, or hell even the lyrics to "What I'm Made Of".
It's honestly kind of genius and a really cool thing for a kid's video game to do, to this day its probably his most interesting portrayal in a Sonic game.
thanks for understanding
I couldn’t have put this better myself.
Underrated comment
THIS is exactly what I really needed to read this is ABSOLUTTLEY 100% correct and 'm not being sarcasticd
I agree with you
Neo Metal Sonic is probably my favorite Sonic villain because his whole thing seemed about gaining individuality with the addition of dominance. Imagine your whole identity being just a copy of someone else and your only motivation is just to surpass the original. Neo Metal lifted those limitations by showing that his skills/intelligence make him more than just a lacky and just as menacing as Eggman if not more.
Neo metal was so good in the idw
arent neo metal and metal the same person
Same.
Metal (both his Neo and normal variants) was probably the one and only Sonic villain that had the most character development and impact as a proper rival to Sonic, Eggman just hates Sonic for destroying his machines, Infinite hates Sonic for some reason, Shadow hates Sonic because he thinks Sonic is the fake, but Metal Sonic hates Sonic because he believes he’s the original, not the copy, and in IDW, after almost 30 years of thinking the same thing, Metal had to come to terms with him being the copy, which is honestly really sad, unlike Shadow’s “death” or Blaze’s disappearance in 06, you can just feel Metal’s thoughts through wordless panels on paper
@SoundwaveSuperior6969 Infinite and his jackals were essentially Eggman messing with mad science by creating super soldiers in his final judgement lab, and pretty much giving them fake memories to let them show their capabilities in their mercenary careers, which almost ends up killing him like always. Basically a Shadow born without his own power source.
it took me a little while to appreciate infinite. at first i thought he was a poorly written character, but i looked at it more, and i kinda understood him more. it’s like, you have someone who acts all cool and tough that’s super edgy, but under the mask hes just a whiny loser. it’s actually kinda genius, he’s all serious till he gets bested and everyone sees how lame he actually is
I agree, Infinite was basically someone who acted edgier than Shadow. That's cool part, and his voice is great. But like ya said, only the mask makes him look cool, he's only a loser under the edgy as hell mask and triggered because the old Edgiest character from Sonic (Shadow) called him weak.
Infinite basically had two backstories in Forces. The writers wanted him to be a creation of Eggman before changing him to a mercenary. I think his petty backstory works in concept but it needs to be expanded on. There are villains out there with petty motivations that are written really well.
TLDR: Some people in real life are evil for no reason or for petty reasons. If written correctly, petty villains can be intimidating if you show how batshit insane they are.
@@TheTSMBoi l Like Infinite 👍🏼 l Wish Became Remastered better in Sonic Frontiers 🙏🏼
@@TheTSMBoii once heard that infinite didn't become evil, cuz shadow called him weak, but because he killed all of his friends.
@@radmilastupar4235 that’s part of it. Both that and Shadow calling him weak triggered him. (But he never got out of the whiny loser phase and without his mask he don’t do nothing)
I can definitely understand why you left out the comic lore. Zavok was written WAY better in IDW. While only Master Zik seemed to rise above being a mere stereotype out of the supporting cast, Zavok was on a whole other level.
In IDW, Zavok is intimidating, menacing, and actually seems like a legitimate threat. It probably helps that, being depicted on paper, you could imagine a much better voice than the games present.
Also, you never have to see that weird mouth he has. The comic just never shows it, which is a huge plus, in my opinion.
I wanna see him after a shave when his weird mouth is fully exposed.
I wish the comic never showed the mouth, because it actually does. And yes, it looks even worse than in the games.
What’s wrong with his voice? I usually hear Dio Brando from Jojo’s bizarre adventure.
@Austin Jenner The voice isn't bad, but I can imagine something more fitting for the character. Something deeper and more menacing would be my preference, but that's just my opinion. I imagine everyone who reads the comics has their own way of interpreting the voices.
@@M3G4T3RR4 I didn't see it when I last paged through the comics. I'll have to go back and look again. At the very least, it isn't as common as it is in the games.
Kishimoto already confirmed that both Mephiles and infinite can comeback in future sonic titles
I just hope that they’re canon
Fingers crossed there'll be follow up on that.
MEPHILES IN SONIC FRONTIERS 2
Holy heck, he did?
@@Nedum05 what? They were always canon
Good lord. I’m sorry but your take on Neo Metal Sonic. Your opinion on him rlly boils down to “he’s different from the Metal Sonic I’m used to so I don’t like him” which is somewhat the point of this whole form. Metal Sonic is so determined to prove his superiority that he literally evolves. It’s a great direction to take his character in
About The End being seen as the Moon, Sonic has this friend who's into fortune cards, maybe he was unwillingly informed about Tarot symbology. The moon card is a really bad time, the moon is what stares down at you when you're lost and stranded in the night, it symbolizes the cruelty of Nature when you're at your most vulnerable.
So, very fitting.
One of the worst Sonic villains.
Fun fact: that friend into tarot cards is Amy. It's just a rather obscure (well less now that the IDW comic referenced it) character detail
@@bakedbeans5494what do you mean worst ?
@@Nabnab_TheTwistedOne The End was self-overhyped.
@@bakedbeans5494 I technically wouldn't call it the worst since Imperitur IX and Erazor Djinn exist but okay
Keep in mind that Tails Skypatrol was originally a Disney game, Wendy originally intended to be the Snow White Queen's witch form. Also magic and fantasy existing in the main Sonic universe is not too disruptive, maybe as a third party between nature and technology?
I like that they tried to introduce more variations of villains, i just wish they made Wendy important, not just a witch on a minecart. Also, i really like how they dealt with her in archie comics
I thought they were suppose to be witch hazel?
i didn't know that thanks for letting me know though
Fun fact: Fang/Nack isn't a weasel - that was a weird localization choice... He's actually a Jerboa, but was later retconed as part wolf, making him the first hybrid in the series.
Lol, this aged poorly
While I don’t fully agree with your lists, I do appreciate you explaining why your list is the way it is and giving good reasons that actually changed my perspective on a couple of these villains.
While Mephiles is my top favorite Sonic villain. I’m afraid of SEGA possibly bringing him back since I feel that his character may get lost in the newer games or that he won’t be the same. While I’m not as worried now since we now have a writer who understands Sonic lore, I’m still a bit concerned that he could still be ruined. This is the same company that tries to Shadow as an antagonist when he isn’t anymore.
Just wanted to say, I love your puppet design. It reminds me of the blues clues characters that looked like they were made with felt or arts and craft materials
You should make a list of your favorite depictions of Dr. Robotnik/Eggman in the Sonic series. You could lump together the various iterations (Adventure, Boom, Boost, etc.), but I'd personally like to see each game and show rated separately. Robotnik was different between Adventure 1 and Adventure 2, after all. Ultimately, it's up to you what you want to do.
That's a solid idea.
eggman at the end of unleashed, during the egg dragoon fight, was the peak of eggman.
@@ChannelPup You ain't kiddin'!
To this day, I still believe that the best way to bring Infinite back and do him justice would be on Ian jr's debut game, that would just make sense...
A lot of people have already mentioned Neo Metal Sonic's actual motives and drive, and I add to that when I say I feel that's really made most potent BY the fact normal Metal is supposed to cross as fed up, tired, and generally just exhausted by his role under Robotnik. The thing that makes Neo Metal Sonic WORK in heroes is that it's his personal identity, his desire to be MORE, that's what shines through there. I'm not going to beat around the bush though, Sonic Heroes and its writing did this idea basically no favors with Neo being obscured for most of the game and never directly interacting with the main cast outside of the final story, and he only goes over his feelings in the middle of final battle. I feel it best encapsulates the idea of Metal Sonic as a whole, and that, as a raw villain? He's actually kind of bad.
He's more intimidating appearance-wise, but that's why you really only feel bad for him. Many other characters are ABLE to transcend their original motives, their vision, change how the world perceives them. Metal on the other hand has none of that. Whether he is wrung under Robotnik's control fully, or operating on his own, the undeniable part of his existence, that even he is well aware of himself, is that he is and always will be an inferior version of Sonic. Neo Metal is this breaking through, is a desperate cry to be something else. I think that's why he takes the form of Metal Overlord by the end. There's a deeper part of him trying to ESCAPE the part of him that is Sonic, but he's so conflicted because fighting Sonic is all he had ever known. He has to prove to himself he IS better, that he can be more than Sonic. He's tragically bound by the limitations of his being in one way or another that he's frequently STUCK in this loop that prevents him from being himself and just remaining an inferior Sonic.
At 6:48 that's the point. He was desperate for a victory so bad that he had to deveate on what he was ment to be to the point that he's unraganizable
Let’s be honest, if Eggman won he wouldn’t call himself Mr Dr Eggman, he’d call himself something like supreme lord Eggman
Eggman solos and I loved the clarification that our mad scientist is the King around here
Another good reason why Mephiles is better than The End and Infinite is because he actually KILLED SONIC (although temporarily) but still did what no other villains couldn’t do.
Glad to see Boom get some love.
Boom will always get love here.
Honestly I like the "concept" of Wendy Witchcart. It's a basic idea of technology versus magic which if the character gets utilized in the future, could bring an added layer of how both affect the word around them. Cause, nowadays I don't exactly think there are a lot of magic-users in the world of Sonic, at least in the modern-games. So introducing a character that dabbles in those kinds of mystical/strange arts against Tails who's moreso grounded in the "real-world" with technology, could bring up an interesting dynamic.
I hope we see Shadow back as a serious anti-hero with more humanity than he likes to admit, instead of a simple edgelord rival to Sonic. The dark hedgehog used to be so much smarter, cunning, and complex. He wasn’t that deep, but he wasn’t tragic and edgy for the sake of it either. Sonic may seem more empathetic and caring compared to Shadow, but Shadow does care, he just has reasons for not being so open. He takes his job seriously because he doesn’t want anyone else to suffer like Maria did, and he’ll do whatever it takes to keep the world safe, even if it means utterly destroying his enemies.
Honestly when I heard The End and Mephiles are very similar I was about to argue otherwise until I thought about what they both did and yeah they’re actually pretty similar, still not sure if The End was meant to be something for people who wanted Mephiles back I think that might’ve just been a coincidence but yeah
Anyway my favorites are definitely Metal Sonic and Mephiles (I’m not counting Shadow in most of SA2 and Knuckles in most of Sonic 3&K), both of them highlighting what’s great about Sonic and Shadow, Metal being devoid of life where Sonic is full of it and feeling like everything Sonic is making sure he doesn’t become and Mephiles being like the devil of Shadow’s shoulder constantly trying to make him turn on his friends and allies only for Shadow to refuse every time and it’s always great in my opinion
Neo Metal Sonic's story actually perfectly fits what you're describing. He drives himself insane trying to beat Sonic and prove himself as both a unique and superior individual. Just go back to his boss fight dialogue.
Mephiles the Dark is a uniquely fairy tale villain. He's the boogieman in the dark, the shadow stalking the princess and her knight. He doesn't work in another context because you would have to so drastically alter the character it would no longer be Mephiles.
He shouldn't come back. They can't do him justice without repeating themselves and they know it.
Infinite really shouldn't be graded as high as he based on potential alone. Most characters have potential, but few realize it. Melina was definitely a better villain writing wise.
So, believe it or not, people theorized that when Sonic was fighting the End, he (Sonic) saw Mephilis as the End's form because he was the only villain to successfully kill him.
if one villain could come back i would love to have infinite
in execution he wasnt a good villain but as you said he had potential
with a little bit of retcon he could become a very interesting villain
Infinite is basically Eggman’s project Shadow. Originally just a prototype to eventually create a final creation with a uniquely powerful source. But then he accidentally bumps into his maker, allies with him, and finds out sooner and later that his mercenary life that he and the jackals had was a forgery (final judgment has the jackal lab). Then Shadow proceeds to end any semblance of Zero as a casual gun mission. There was no one left for Zero to carry on. Only scars of him remained of who he was.
Basically, he and Sage are meant to be top dogs that can fly on their own, with completely different backgrounds to link them to Eggman.
I really cant wait for more sonic prime. Im hoping we could get some proper background on rusty roses backstory since shes the only one of sonics friends in that universe thats a villain turned into a cyborg. Im excited for a lot of other things that show could introduce, like super sonic potentially because of shadow finding a chaos emerald
I feel like Knuckles and Pacified Chaos both guarding the Master Emerald would make for pretty fun dynamic to see at some point
I'd like to see the SatAM Robotnik show up in Prime and just take over everything. It's never going to happen, unless they want to completely change the tone going forward, but maybe that's for the best. The Council of Eggmen just doesn't feel like a competent ruling body to me.
I don't know. On one hand, yeah he is cool. However that would mean demands for Sally and Freedom Fighters would skyrocket. And we all know what type of mine field that can be
Edit: I must have missed reading. My bad
@@maciejas2471 That's why it will never happen.
@@maciejas2471 Satam Robotnik can and should be in Prime, same with Sally etc, there's a large demand for these characters and it's mind boggling that a show by Wildbrain, that's about essentially the multiverse, doesn't have any of them, they'd sell far more than the lame alternatives in Prime.
There's nothing wrong with the demand for those characters rising.
If they made neo have more of base metal sonic’s personality instead of just being a evil overlord, lean a bit more into his identity crisis, and let us fight the neo form instead of just bootleg perfect chaos. He would have been one of the best sonic villains.
I mean he did copy the gene of chaos
I was not expecting that sonic boom villain to show up in here even if he is an honorable mention
You forgot that mephiles was the only villain who’s goals were reach and the ONLY one to have killed sonic and have dire consequences
Has a big fan of infinite, I'm happy people are starting to at least think he isn't bad. I will admit has a fan, his backstory should've been better but the reason why I love the character unironically is because he reminds me of a late 2000s edgy cartoon character(not edgelord just edgy) and I like edgy characters but also his design,voice and powers are cool too. To me, he's the reason why I somehow enjoy sonic forces. But again, I do agree that he could've been better
It’s less that he has a bad backstory and it’s more like they didn’t fully explain it despite it making a lot of sense with his song and why he views his life as zero to be an illusion (he was created by Eggman to live this manufactured life, similar to Shadow having his memories altered to make his life about killing everyone.
In the IDW comics, Zavok and the Deadly Six were actually GOATED. I'm not kidding.
I think if sonic 06 were well animated, the mascot suit effect could fit well with Mephiles, it could be even more scary comparing him with the rest of the characters if they had a good animation.
For all the reasons you mentioned, I agree that Shadow does deserve to be in the #1 spot on this list. I think that Movie Shadow may likely get shown more like the SA2 version of him instead of like an edgeloard, especially because I've heard that the director, (Jeff Fowler,) is a big fan of that character and even worked on the CGI movie production of Shadow's own 2005 spin-off game. He likely knows a good amount about what that character was originally like, and from being a fan he may possibly not want Shadow to be written wrongly in it. They said that they will be adapting an amount of elements from SA2 into that highly anticipated upcoming movie, so that could help too.
The closest I can think of about “eggman who won” is the SATAM robotnik where he already is the dictator of the world and sonic and his friends were the freedom fighters trying to overthrow him. Kinda like the galactic empire vs the rebel alliance in Star Wars.
Edit not to mention he’s actually pretty menacing and evil on that show.
Mephiles could work well as essentially Shadows metal sonic, a recurring dark reflection style villain, having him rise out of shadows... Shadow every once in a while to manipulate and shit talk him would bring a good spook factor
I was mad that Mephiles is so low but then I saw that you put Villain Shadow/Knuckles in the top 2 and saw it was more acceptable. Me personally I'd still put Mephiles as second only to Eggman himself, but Villain Shadow is great too.
The Title: "Sonic Villains Tier List" is a "Sonic Villains: A Sonic Fan Film Reference"
I personally would have to disagree about Neo Metal Sonic.
To me, I think it was rather interesting seeing Metal Sonic’s drive to defeat sonic, no matter the cost take into it the logical extreme. To fill his sole purpose, he concluded that he had to conquer the Eggman empire. With all of the resources he now had he devised a plan to replicate the powers of the heroes and unlike his maniacal creator, metal sonic was smart enough to keep himself hidden until all the preparation‘s were made.
I especially like how metal sonic is finally able to speak. Although I normally like metal sonic being voiceless has a way of mirroring how sonic uses wisecracks, it is nice seeing how metal truly feels about things.
and as a final note, although I agree, it would’ve been awesome just to fight neo, metal sonic in his base form, and argue. The metal overlord is almost a mirror of supersonic. They’re both the ultimate forms of these rivals, oh, and sonic harnesses his true power he becomes a golden god, while metal sonic becomes a hideous, metallic monster.
I could not agree less about Neo Metal, Heroes gave him so much more character and motivation. I think it fits perfectly with Metal Sonic,
He isnt just some pawn to Eggman to do his every bidding, he’a a deeply complex character struggling through an identity crisis as to what he’s supposed to be, and thats what Neo spawned from - a breaking point. He couldn’t take it anymore.
His base character cannot speak and his emotions can be misread, in his Neo form he can. That’s where we truly learn his motivations. He didn’t change suddelt, we were just able to suddenly understand him because he could now tell us directly how he felt
Shadow is easily the most complex character in the entire franchise that i wish Sega would just expand upon him. He is the most "human" of any Sonic character and as the ultimate life form has the most potential for growth. I would love a game where you do missions for G.U.N. but see more of Shadow's personal life and reflecting on his actions as well as struggling to prove himself and that he is not the villain or threat humanity sees him as. Play off what Mephiles tells Shadow that no matter how hard he tries, humanity will betray and persecute him in the future due to distrust and his power.
I'm quite surprised that dark Gaia didn't make the list. Other than that good video!
Dark gaia, iblis and Biolizard are just giant mojsters with a back lore, there's not much about them, only "we need to destroy them otherwise they'll destroy the world. On the other hand, why were the metarex left aside? It's a crime.
Yeah, Dark Gaia and the Black Arms were sorely missed.
I’d argue that Rusty Rose is an Enforcer for the Chaos Council, like Mecha Sally in the pre-genesis wave Archie Sonic comics
If infinite had better writing, he would be a villain worthy of his amazing theme song
Neo metal Sonic turn into a monster because how far he willing to take to take Sonic down
Wouldn't it be interesting if there was a future game where Infinite and The End both returned and teamed up? Infinite having been used and cast aside by Eggman for his failure, seeking revenge on both Sonic and Eggman. Meanwhile The End, weakened from its defeat in Frontiers, manipulates and empowers Infinite to aid him in his revenge and ultimately use him as a vessel to continue its relentless desire for destruction.
Plus their names just kinda match in an antithetical way.
Eggman sealed Infinite away because Infinite would kill himself if he kept fighting. The doctor is cruel, but not unreasonable.
@@justice8718 And where is that stated?
@@slenderminion2229 Just look at infinite. He was crumbling to pieces.
Fan fact when frontires was developing one of the test music for one of boss fights was infinite s theme maybe it was just testing what type of music will match with the boss but maybe they had a plan somehow add the jackal in newer games but they scared because of the hate that forces gots n decide never touch the weak one maybe for long or he can be gone forever
I’ve always believed that if you changed one thing about infinite, it would’ve made him 1000x more interesting, just make him the Sonic equivalent of the Scarecrow from Batman. Don’t just have Have him conjure any illusions, have him conjure illusions of peoples fears. It’d make him a lot more intimidating as basic every character would be challenged since they’d have to face their innate fears but it’d make everyone else more interesting as well seeing their fears. Hell, he practically sounds like Scarecrow
So Shadow can beat mephiles in stop them at the end of the day I hope so.
Where's The Barrel of Doom? Its backstory is amazing and poses a real threat IN-GAMEPLAY unlike most other sonic villains.
Mephiles is probably my favourite Sonic villain, but Shadow is easily one of the best characters.
There is definitely a lot more potential for him in the future. I'm really looking forwards to seeing him in action in Sonic 3, and if they follow up Frontiers, I'd love to see what they could do with him there as well after all the incredible work they did with Amy, Knuckles and Tails!
No there isn't, Mephiles fused with Iblis to become Solaris and was wiped from existence, you can't bring back Mephiles without Solaris.
@@artistanthony1007 We don't know if Solaris was wiped from existence.
@@bakedbeans5494yes they both were. The events of sonic 06 were removed from existence In the end
Remember that time Knuckles mugged a demigod.
1:27 "I've come to make an announcement!"
Sad there are no Archie villains despite many of them are remembered by fanbase. For example, Regina Ferrum, her arc was one of the strongest, Mogul the Mammoth is a great gray-moral manipulator, and Scourge who is still ADORED by many people.
Mephiles: I killed Sonic.
There are three main Sonic comics Fleetway's Sonic The Comic (STC), Archie Sonic comic, and IDW Sonic Comic.
Methylus the Duck got me real bad 🤣🤣🤣
I always found Gemerl in advance 3 to be what Emerl would be if he was taken control of completely
From what i could tell rusty was the result of Amy trying to survive new yoke by fighting back, slowly turning herself into a robot and eventually being hacked by the chaos council
Thank you for putting shadow as number 1 he is my favorite character
Also I kinda like neo metal Sonic mainly all his designs and voice
I will never forgive you for doing neo Metal this dirty
4:43 so we’re just gonna ignore the Sonic SatAM cartoon?
him: i am not gonna put eggman on this list also him; puts eggm,an first from forst
Metal is at his best in Mania(Adventures)
It has his menacing side from K-Chaotix and Heroes, with his apathy from everything else.
Merlina has a releatable motivation . She is afraid of death and fear. Putting Infinite above her is a crime lol
I didn't put Infinite above her. I didn't rank honourable mentions. They weren't in any particular order.
@@ChannelPup sry bro
Glad that someone else wants Infinite to return, he has loads of potential, especially if he was flushed out.
Also jackals are my favourite animals so that’s also a plus
here remastered of my top 5 worst list 1 biolizard 2 the END 3 iblis 4 eggman nega 5 gillwing
You put a witch above some popular characters what a mad lad
He better be a playable character in the next super smash bros series
Great video pup!
Nah.
Im still enraged on how much potential was wasted on infinite he could've been such a cool and deep character but no emo mr. Im not weak it is >:/
Zavok is really amazing in the Idw comics
“Welcome to tilted towers my name is Memphis Tennessee”
I could even see The End as a sort of “Planet X” that would crash into the earth, destroying everything on it.
Awesome video.
2:26 based King Pup, make that bread
Sonic doesn’t have Bad Villains but Villains like Infinite,Zavok,and the Deadly Six are Just Disappointing.
True
Sonic vs. the End keeps reminding me of this exchange from Gaiman's "The Sandman," when Choronzon and Dream are playing "The Oldest Game."
Choronzon: I am anti-life, the beast of judgement. I am the dark at the end of everything-- gods, worlds, universes, everything. Sss. And what will you be, Dreamlord?
Dream: I am hope.
Choronzion: I... I... I don't know.
As for Shadow, I think Sega keeps wanting to make him an anti-hero, but they don't know how to do it consistently and he just keeps coming across as a jerk.
In Infinite's defense, Sonic Forces did everyone dirty. So maybe Sega will let Ian Flynn fix Infinite in a later game or comic.
Damn my boy didn't even bring up Gamma, RIP my forgotten boy.
He isn't a villian
Neo Metal Sonic is the BEST Metal. Yeah he’s supposed to mirror Sonic. But Neo Metal is best because it’s Metal becoming MORE than just a robotic version or Sonic. It’s him finding his own identity. Becoming a better menace than Eggman.
Edit: Bruh, Infinite is in honorable mentions but his whole backstory is that he lost to Shadow, and that was his breaking point. Dude threw a hissy fit and it was one of the cringiest things ever. You put him in honorable mentions yet Neo Metal is in worst?
Well just as well you can put Neo Metal above Infinite on your list.
27:43 fun fact mephilas is another name for the devil so you can see where they got the resemblance
About the witch, like i have to agree that she dont have that much with the sonic universe (until the comics made her more fitting) and a contrast with tails i think the way the tails we know now in days is different than the tails was back in the day where he was just a kid side kick unless tails adventure was out early than skypatrol.
But the witch sucks? Yeah she kinda sucks for being a villan but i think she can be a nice comic relief in "classic games era" if they continue making mania games
Okay here are my 3 favourite Sonic Antagonists/Villains:
1. SAGE (She does what Infinite don´t)
2. Metal Sonic (The Fact that even Sonic 4 didn´t flandarize him is astounding)
3. Fang The Sniper (I love how he played a better Role in the 16-Bit Version despite not having played it yet)
My favorite Sonic Villains are Mephiles Black Doom Dark Gaia and King Arthur aka The Black Knight.
“There’s obviously limitations to storytelling and characterisation in 16 bit style video games”
Oh really says Freedom Planet
I wonder if a good youtube video would be Eggman Henchman. Someone for Eggman/Robotnik to monologuing to tier list.
Sage
Orbot & cubot
Bocoe &Decoe
Scratch &Grounder
Snively
Agent Stone
Likely more
I personally, absolutely adore The Ends concept. It was dumb at first until I realized, this thing killed a highly advanced civilization all on its own. And the idea of it looking different to everyone is awesome. Just wish the fight was better but I hope to see the concept of it, and the Starfall island in general, to be expanded upon
@ChannelPup... You will die in the next 5 minutes
I am a big fan of shadow the hedgehog and I love his stories
People are going to hate me for saying this but, I like zavok. I can't deny how dumb he becomes later in lost world. Pretty sure he forgets that the lost hex is his home not sonics. I guess sonic colonised it.
Well the storybook games have been confirmed canon ever since Sonic Generations
Do Orbot and Cubot count? Since they are in many mediums. Not that I expect to see them anyway.
8:07-8:12
Why did Naugus have to catch a stray like that. I think he’s a pretty cool villain.
Also this has had magical concepts in it before so what’s wrong with having straight up witches and wizards in the Sonic franchise?
Welp missed the update on this one.
Can I still claim the giveaway?
Don't forget Mephiles also has a Monstrous Form when he empowered up with his darkness. Creating a giant body to control. He can also show laser from his cyclops eye.
His true form is more actually Solaris, when he's fused with Iblis. Solaris looks like a simple but creepy and uncanny form of phoenix.
Also Mephiles in his Crystal form is bloody terrifying and not to mention he's voiced by Dan Green the same actor as Knuckles so hearing him as Mephiles is amazing not to mention that crazy and long evil laughter in the opening of the last episode that gave me goosebumps alongside that 4th wall breaking stare before that ooh this guy just screams evil and I love it
I don't think the Eggman in Sonic Prime is THE Eggman. I think he was split into multiple beings that represent aspects of his psyche, there isn't a sole leader of the group that represents the actual Eggman. He doesn't even have the memories of his former self.
I guess there are some interesting directions they could take him that make him better. But we'll have to see.
When he was saying Emeral, all I could hear him saying was "Email" lol
Are you forgot Silver who is antagonist in Sonic 06?
I agree on Zavok and 6 being worst villains in a Modern Sonic revamp of Sonic X-treme. Zavok and others are so forgettable. Zavok is litteraly the only "Deadly" 6 I can remember.
I would disagree on your opinion with Neo Metal Sonic. I think ti is brilliant for Metal to become a being of his own as he has at that moment, completely compromised the reason of his creation and I think him using the power of the Gods to become stronger than Sonic would be a brilliant idea.
What about nine he is a dark version of tails n what willl happen whith him if he never met sonic n was continue bulled by other antropormorphic animals n become closed n angry person who rejects evryone n at the end he gets a redemption n helps sonic to restore the shatterverse and I agree rusty rose is also a great vilian that the fact that the original amy rose is my favorite character n it was intresting to see her reverse version like usaly multiverse does whith known characters but I think whith nine it works more better n deeper but still this two furys work allot better than all the chaos council brought together