I did almost complete coverage of roof flat areas with Killmat. The walls 50% seems adequate. Sleeping in a van during heavy rain can get very loud. To me thats worth the weight penalty of one full box of killmat on the roof.
I spoke with 3M directly on proper adhesive to use, and they only recommend hot melt adhesive. This is because the insulation itself is polypropylene which is a low energy plastic. Has the 3M 90 held up over the long run? How would one know if it's inside a wall?
Inexpensive options for tools to roll out the mat would be a wallpaper roller, or if you know somebody that does counters or cabinet fabrication see if you borrow a j-roller from them.
Just bought a '23 Sprinter.. It came with some sound deadening.. about 4"x10" pieces in each panel.. some are larger. It's very thin.. but seems to take the tinniness out of the panels. Would you suggest adding the Kilmat on top of that or just go to the next step?? Hope you see this.. Thanks..
You guys are crushing it! Clear, concise with sound reasoning. Speaking of sound - levels on this are low compared to the rest of the youtube space if that's helpful info.
Yeah it's easy to do when editing, if your system puts out good volume, you have nice monitors, and you're used to quiet sounds. Don't mix down your audio based on the volume you like it at, make sure that different systems can increase the volume sufficiently while also maintaining low noise at lower volumes... trade just a bit of fidelity for enough volume so that even those with less than ideal systems can still hear you.
Mucho thanks for the clear, concise, and positive video. The AVC videos are helpful and appreciated. Are there any AVC tips for applying the Thinsulate in the van's structural channels, overhead, and other unique places?
We don’t. Honestly if you roll out the sound mat you can’t go wrong. I shoot for %50 coverage on main areas and go heavier on wheel wells and doors. Insulation is easy too. Just do your main areas first. Use your scraps to stuff the nooks and crannies.
Some doors do, it depends on what you order. I prefer the 270 opening doors. Like other manufacturers they also have a more simple opening door that doesn’t open as wide. I’m not a fan of wool insulation in my builds. If you like it use it!
Wool may seem all eco-friendly but it's not the most hygenic material to use in thie application. Wool fibers can hold moisture within the fibers and those fibers are slower to dry out than synthetic alternatives. But *you're better off not using any fibrous insulation (including Thinsulate) because all of them can and will hold condensation within the fiber matrix (even if - as with Thinsulate - the fibers themselves don't actually absorb water).* Refer to Gary's tests at 'Build A Green RV' for more info. Any fibrous batts or loose fill should be bagged to avoid migration. One of the most cost-effective fibrous insulations to use is foil-faced fiberglass duct insulation (e.g.: J-M Ecofoil), doubled so that the fibers are completely contained by foil on both sides & edges. If installed with proper air gaps, the foil also provides radiant barriers.
What are your thoughts on Lizard Skin application inside the van for condensation / sound deadening... after KilMat, but before before 3M Thinsulate application?
Wouldn’t you want to apply Lizard Skin prior to any of it, and then follow up with Kilmat and Thinsulate? I’m curious about this same exact process. I live in FL where max reduction of heat transfer is going to be key :)
I’d apply lizard first then kill mat. The lizard is designed to be a radiant barrier the sound dampening is just for sound so it can go on second. Might be redundant if you apply enough lizard skin though.
While i used secondskin products (butil dampening and then spectrum/firewall layer) you use he butil layer first, then you can tape the seams or apply the liquid product over the butil aluminum layer, then your thinsulate. The butil layer as stated in the video is mostly the same for different brands, there was an experiment done that found its more the thickness of the aluminum layer rather than the thickness of the butil that makes the most difference in effectiveness of this layer. But it is a foam and/or mass loaded vinyl layer that blocks sound (in this case its the thinsulate layer) the dampening product adds rigidity and tweaks the vibration of large panels. While you do get more returns on more butil (like 100% coverage) there is a point of diminishing returns after about 60% coverage. The most efficient use, as correctly pointed out in the video is over large flat panels, in a checkerboard pattern, or otherwise not perfectly centered means the panels lose a balance of vibration modes which makes the layer more effective. So adding more coverage sill gives you gains it is far less the more you add.
If the batts are compressed, it kills the R value. Insulation like wool, Thinsulate, and fiberglass works by creating a dead air space between the walls. It's the air, not the fibers, that insulates.
There’s really no such thing as non organic batt or any other insulation since unless you are building a van in a “clean room” and sealing it completely the organic dust in the air will be trapped in the batt and if wet will mold
My spinner passenger van came with heavy duty coverings on the inside over the rear wheel wells so there would be no reason to take those off and put down kill Matt and it has a sound dampening product similar to that all over the inside so I’m just gonna trust it Mercedes knows more about this than you do and not add any Killmat or any other sound dampening glue on material that just adds cost and weight if it’s not necessary
If you do the knock test you will definitely notice a difference adding sound dampening. If you’re happy with it, then there’s no reason to add more. I never trust the manufacturer to do the best job. Just “enough” remember these are designed as cargo vans not campers.
I did almost complete coverage of roof flat areas with Killmat. The walls 50% seems adequate. Sleeping in a van during heavy rain can get very loud. To me thats worth the weight penalty of one full box of killmat on the roof.
If your insulation have sound dampening property it is necessary also have a sound dampening panels? This is not adding cost and weight to the build?
Thanks Matt and the team. I’m using all your video to help with my van build. Just wish you were based in the UK.
We appreciate it! Maybe someday we’ll break into the big leagues
In your supplies list you have 3M 90 adhesive-in your video you have 3M 74 adhesive. Which one should I use to glue the thinsulate to the Van wall?
Thanks for these tips
Super helpful, thank you for making it simple!
No vapour barrier on the insulation ?
I spoke with 3M directly on proper adhesive to use, and they only recommend hot melt adhesive. This is because the insulation itself is polypropylene which is a low energy plastic. Has the 3M 90 held up over the long run? How would one know if it's inside a wall?
You look like Dexter Lab. Cartoon Network lol. But I really like how you explain with so much help with my project. Thanks a lot.
Welcome to my labor a tory 😂
Inexpensive options for tools to roll out the mat would be a wallpaper roller, or if you know somebody that does counters or cabinet fabrication see if you borrow a j-roller from them.
That’s a great tip!
Love you man. You are so helpful!!!
Thank you!
Just bought a '23 Sprinter.. It came with some sound deadening.. about 4"x10" pieces in each panel.. some are larger. It's very thin.. but seems to take the tinniness out of the panels. Would you suggest adding the Kilmat on top of that or just go to the next step?? Hope you see this.. Thanks..
If Thinsulate is a sound deadening product, why use Killmat also?
This was a well made video
Thank You ! ❤
great concise video
How about spray foam?
What are your thoughts on the Lizard Skin spray on product for sound dampening and insulation?
I think it’s ok. We be tried it once but to really get the right effect you need to spray a LOT of it on. At the time I couldn’t afford it.
You guys are crushing it! Clear, concise with sound reasoning. Speaking of sound - levels on this are low compared to the rest of the youtube space if that's helpful info.
It is definitely helpful. Our older videos had inconsistent sound. I appreciate you sticking with us!
Yeah it's easy to do when editing, if your system puts out good volume, you have nice monitors, and you're used to quiet sounds. Don't mix down your audio based on the volume you like it at, make sure that different systems can increase the volume sufficiently while also maintaining low noise at lower volumes... trade just a bit of fidelity for enough volume so that even those with less than ideal systems can still hear you.
Do you do work for people?
Hi do you sound deaden the roof and floor?
Hey any tips on insulating the tops and side pillars of the rear cargo doors on the ford transit high roof?
I rip up thinsulate and just stuff it in there. There are a few holes up high and in the corners that make it doable.
Do you need to clean the walls before sticking on the foil pads?
Definitely. Always prep for best adhesion. Who knows what’s on there from the factory or your dealership.
What are your thoughts on roxul for insulation?
I used it in my basement addition at home. Haven’t considered it for the van. How does it do with moisture?
Thanks
Mucho thanks for the clear, concise, and positive video. The AVC videos are helpful and appreciated. Are there any AVC tips for applying the Thinsulate in the van's structural channels, overhead, and other unique places?
I’d just tear up the thinsulate and stuff it in with a coat hangar. Sound would be too much trouble in those spots.
Great vid guys! Do you guys have a video showing the application process, both in amount and placement? Thanks!
We don’t. Honestly if you roll out the sound mat you can’t go wrong. I shoot for %50 coverage on main areas and go heavier on wheel wells and doors. Insulation is easy too. Just do your main areas first. Use your scraps to stuff the nooks and crannies.
@@AVCRIG great thank you!
what happens if you overuse the insulation?
@@N3pea it just stuffs the spaces and makes it tough to install the walls.
I dig your videos. How much Thinsulate do you use in a Ford Transit High Roof 148?
About 40 ft
And how many cans of 3m 74?
@@AVCRIG So 2 rolls of 20’x60”?
I see it only comes in 60” widths so, 40’ makes sense, thank you.
@@wdbottom if you’re doing a full conversion I’d start with a case. (12) you’ll use them I promise.
2 questions does the ford back doors open a lot wider backwards?
Why not use havelock wool insulation?
Some doors do, it depends on what you order. I prefer the 270 opening doors. Like other manufacturers they also have a more simple opening door that doesn’t open as wide.
I’m not a fan of wool insulation in my builds. If you like it use it!
@@AVCRIG But why no wool? Is the 270 available with the adventure package do you know?
Wool may seem all eco-friendly but it's not the most hygenic material to use in thie application. Wool fibers can hold moisture within the fibers and those fibers are slower to dry out than synthetic alternatives. But *you're better off not using any fibrous insulation (including Thinsulate) because all of them can and will hold condensation within the fiber matrix (even if - as with Thinsulate - the fibers themselves don't actually absorb water).* Refer to Gary's tests at 'Build A Green RV' for more info. Any fibrous batts or loose fill should be bagged to avoid migration. One of the most cost-effective fibrous insulations to use is foil-faced fiberglass duct insulation (e.g.: J-M Ecofoil), doubled so that the fibers are completely contained by foil on both sides & edges. If installed with proper air gaps, the foil also provides radiant barriers.
Curious how much Kilmat we should get for our Ford Transit EL HR?
I’d do 3 boxes.
Is it worth it to get the 80mm or is it just overkill and a waste of money?
Cant find info on Should it be 50 mil kilmat or 80 mil?
In theory 80 will work better, but I think 50 is fine. If you’re insulating with Thinsulate then definitely 50
@@AVCRIG thanks for your response.
What are your thoughts on Lizard Skin application inside the van for condensation / sound deadening... after KilMat, but before before 3M Thinsulate application?
Wouldn’t you want to apply Lizard Skin prior to any of it, and then follow up with Kilmat and Thinsulate? I’m curious about this same exact process. I live in FL where max reduction of heat transfer is going to be key :)
I’d apply lizard first then kill mat. The lizard is designed to be a radiant barrier the sound dampening is just for sound so it can go on second. Might be redundant if you apply enough lizard skin though.
I think you’re right. I tried lizard once and only noticed a small difference. I should probably try again.
While i used secondskin products (butil dampening and then spectrum/firewall layer) you use he butil layer first, then you can tape the seams or apply the liquid product over the butil aluminum layer, then your thinsulate. The butil layer as stated in the video is mostly the same for different brands, there was an experiment done that found its more the thickness of the aluminum layer rather than the thickness of the butil that makes the most difference in effectiveness of this layer. But it is a foam and/or mass loaded vinyl layer that blocks sound (in this case its the thinsulate layer) the dampening product adds rigidity and tweaks the vibration of large panels. While you do get more returns on more butil (like 100% coverage) there is a point of diminishing returns after about 60% coverage. The most efficient use, as correctly pointed out in the video is over large flat panels, in a checkerboard pattern, or otherwise not perfectly centered means the panels lose a balance of vibration modes which makes the layer more effective. So adding more coverage sill gives you gains it is far less the more you add.
Fire resistant insulation you sold me!
Also Great for home theater sound dampening on my HVAC ducts. Best and cheapest brand
Pro tip!
Is that you, Killmat?
I think so…
What problems are caused by over doing insulation? Except weight gain and loss of space?
Moisture buildup possibly.
If the batts are compressed, it kills the R value. Insulation like wool, Thinsulate, and fiberglass works by creating a dead air space between the walls. It's the air, not the fibers, that insulates.
There’s really no such thing as non organic batt or any other insulation since unless you are building a van in a “clean room” and sealing it completely the organic dust in the air will be trapped in the batt and if wet will mold
I definitely don’t recommend sealing it in.
@@AVCRIG Can you explain more to this noob (me!)?
Damping, not dampening
Noted! Thank you.
My spinner passenger van came with heavy duty coverings on the inside over the rear wheel wells so there would be no reason to take those off and put down kill Matt and it has a sound dampening product similar to that all over the inside so I’m just gonna trust it Mercedes knows more about this than you do and not add any Killmat or any other sound dampening glue on material that just adds cost and weight if it’s not necessary
If you do the knock test you will definitely notice a difference adding sound dampening. If you’re happy with it, then there’s no reason to add more. I never trust the manufacturer to do the best job. Just “enough” remember these are designed as cargo vans not campers.
Can you give me the information on where I can purchase the jack you use to hold up the van ceiling pannel in place that you use?