Hi! What are your thoughts on the 4 Series? What do you think about that grill? Thanks for watching and I look forward to seeing all of your perspectives in the comments!
I don't really like it to be honest, I think such huge grills are not beautiful anymore, at least when they're so vertical. I think the current 7 series is the limit. The X7 is borderline. I think the current M4 is one of the more beautiful BMWs, together with the i8, M1 Procar, X5 and and the current 8 series. But I think it's still better than the i4 concept because on an EV such a huge grille like grafic doesn't serve any purpose, a reason the Tesla model S and X are my favorite EVs, they're modern and futuristic but still conservative enough to appeal to a wide audience.
Just want to say thanks for listening to our feedback and doing this video. We appreciate it. As for the 4 series, I have a feeling the design language will grow on us over time. It's polarizing because it's different to what we expect. That said, I don't think borrowing from Audi's narrow taillight design is going to do them any favors because it looks "done before"
This car from side and back looks like a new chinese kickstarter car brand that. I think all modern cars LOST their identities.. everything is same just complex electonic crap with more plastic, cup holders , sporty shit and USB ports.. just same crap at every manufacturer
They changed subtle BMW designs into basically an Audi. Mercedes is at least still trying to do it's own thing (although I am personally not a fan of their design)
I’m 48 years old now and I’ve only owned BMWs since I got my drivers license at age 18. Because the unique BMW design language speaks to my heart. Even during the Chris Bangle spell, when I didn’t care much for the design of the 7 and 6 series, at least the 3 and 5 series were still ok. Nowadays when I look at their current line (way too many models by the way) I can only appreciate the 3 series. Everything else is so ugly with the new 4 series as prime example. I truely and deeply hope that we just have to sit through this one generation and that BMW will return to form for the next one. Otherwise I’ll be forced to look elsewhere after 30 years of being a loyal customer...
It depends on the sales. If they make more money than with the current 4 series it is a success and they will stick with it. If sales drop they’ll change it with an early facelift I think.
I hope BMW EXECUTIVE will read your statement. Chapeau bas for the 30 years loyalty. I was able to be loyal 6 years then i went to an estate car from Audi
Frank: "Very aggressive lines, it lacks the Hofmeister knick, the kidney grill is not coherent with BMW's design identity..." Doug: "It looks like a Wombat"
The front clip is their version of any alfa of the past 15 yrs and that's not a bad idea to expound upon given that the prodigious surface area of the grill will aid in cooling. The rear 3rd looks all Audi S5. A set of recessed non-5star wheels will set it of considerably. The rear is very attractive and follows the theme began in the front utilizing the side vents which in this case will also double as a high diffuser. The M version with the aero bits, skirts, splitters, black carbon roof with the special wheels should be breathtaking.
@@theraggededgeonboardfastes8461 there are differences between "evolving the design" and "losing the identity" Chris Bangle's design might got a lot of flak initially, but he did keep the design identity (Hofmeister's kink, proper twin kidney grille, proportion, smooth curves from classic 303). This doesn't even look like BMW anymore.
Well, he styled it, he didn't design it. Probably 150+ people designed it for Crash, NVH, durability, Ergonomics, Packaging. Ride and Handling, Aero etc. It really annoys me when 1 person says they _designed_ a car, which is a massive disrespect to many teams of engineers that really DO design it.
Engineering and design are two totally different things. In the old days car designers were infact stylists but now designers work with engineers to make it all happen. Of course it’s a team effort but the design is often from one person’s vision and that usually gets the best results.
@@kobbetop Engineers design many parts of the car. Engines are _designed_ Nothing to do with stylists. Crash integrity is designed. Ride and handling is designed.
Lewis72 You’re so fucking wrong. Not because you don’t have a point, but because you think you are the only one who’s right. Of course he did design it. If 150 people design a car. All of them are the designer of the car. So if he participated in the X5’s design process, he IS an X5 Designer. Also he didn’t say anywhere that he was THE designer. Dumbass.
I went to art school and majored in graphic design, and Frank's reaction to the buck tooth beaver grille parallels my design professor's reaction to any designs I showed him that just flat out weren't good lol. I loved your critique design analysis Frank, very objectively honest!
Don't forget that high waistline, the kink + high waistline is what makes a BMW. Looking at this car from the sides only I cant even tell if it's a BMW or not, it just looks generic and soulless.
So this is exactly my issue with the S550 Mustang. Looks like a European car. Seems like cars everywhere are losing their design aesthetic. The previous 4 series was one of the best looking cars to ever grace the road. Same for the late-model S197 Mustangs. But then.... modernisation!
6:45 It's just the exact reaction when the professor of programming course in uni, saw the assignments of the students. The grill redesign of Mercedes Benz was much making sense.
I actually think the complete opposite, this is much less aggressive, much more organic feeling with softer body lines. I don't like it at all, but I don't think it's has any sort of particular presence from any angle except the front.
This is future car design. Tailor made n customability for each customer. Who doesnt want his or her very butt print as the front car grill of their cars. Now this is genius idea there for future of automobile design.
Hi Frank, Loving the videos. As an Australian industrial designer I've always had a fascination in our local car industry. I'd love to see an episode reviewing modern Australian car design up until its unfortunate collapse in the mid 2010's. Some notable models include: Holden Commodore VE SS (as well as the VF SS after it) Ford Falcom FG XR6 (and the FGX XR6 after it) HSV Maloo R08 Holden Monaro CV8 And for a meme, the Ford falcon AU Forte. Cheers.
it's like they decided to fire every designer from the beautiful F32, and instead just hired some filthy casual car render junkie online to do their latest design. the new look is so cheap.
@@derek400004 "beautiful F32" lmao It looked exactly like 3 series because it is a 2 door 3 series, which is almost identical to 5 series from the front. What designers if 4 series didn't have a design at all? 🤣 It literally doesn't matter what they change and how it looks, you get a feeling of satisfaction by shitting on everything new and circlejerking with your flock and you'll do it no matter what.
“I don’t like the fact that cars are getting bigger and bigger all the time” 🙏🙏🙏🙏 this right here !!!! I don’t understand why every car manufacturer is doing this! The proportions of some of the outgoing models were far superior!
In no particular order, 1. Safety guidelines, 2. Increased headroom 3. Increased cargo capacity. I share the same sentiment as you, but I don’t think manufacturers can do anything about it unfortunately.
Corduroy why do they need to? If a customer doesn’t like the amount of space in a 3 series, go shopping for a 5 series. 4 series not big enough? Look at the 6 series (now 8 I guess?). No reason to continually make every segment bigger. It’s getting out of control. At this point, the only normal size car they will have will be the 2 series.
Russell Brown Manufacturers don’t base their decisions off of UA-cam fanboys though. If their market research shows that people want more room, that’s how they’ll decide. And safety guidelines are not optional obviously.
Corduroy ok, outdated pants style. That’s a great insight. I’m sure they don’t. How the UA-cam fanboys collectively feel about something I believe is a good enough indicator of how the market will respond. The guys (including me) that were into M3s won’t be interested in them starting with this generation. They’re getting way too big to be a legitimate performance car. Most Bmer drivers don’t want to feel like they’re driving a bathtub around. The M2 will be the only legit sports car they have left for this new generation. The rest are grotesquely large and have lost their iconic looks and handling. Now, where you get the idea that size is connected to safety I have no idea. These cars are already plenty big and heavy.
I think it might be like a fuck you statement so its kind of cool in that way. With the license plate right on top. I could see myself buying it just to be a troll.
I arrived here from the Harry's Garage video and I had a lot of fun listening to your very polite description of the front grill, trying not to totally destroy the designer for getting paid and making that mess. I worked in consultancy for years (IT, not design) but I can relate a lot to what you mention both here and on Harry's video about button-less touchscreens. The problem in both cases is that the very basic elements (license plate and tactile feedback) were an afterthought. Someone put together a fancy concept, which then is made "realistic" for a production model, and you keep making modifications here and there but at the end you get something defective by design which doesn't fulfill it's reason to exist. Here we have a humongous front grill which doesn't suck in air and makes the car look ugly. And instead the beautiful headlights, your sight gets stuck to the grill
Side: looks like a Honda Back: looks like a Lexus Front: looks like a joke I'm very disappointed with this offering as a customer who has previously owned: E46, E92 and F82
I'm more of a BMW Motorrad man myself but it's the same story on two wheels. Compare the love it or hate it old S1000RR to the current, is it a Honda? version.
@@gerardmontgomery280 in many ways we can be glad. We reached "peak BMW". It was always a very expensive hobby. Now I just wish I still had some of my old cars.
100% agreed! Honda accord coupe is just like it on the side. I wouldn't really mind the back even though it doesn't look like a BMW sadly. But that front grill??? Oh god this has to be the ugliest thing ever created, it's really bad!
@@lubospatak459 I agree 100%. There's really nothing special about it at all. It's a very generic design and too much like the F1 but worse. It's still probably gonna be the greatest driving car of all time though lol
Great video! As a designer myself (architect) I appreciate the thoughtfulness you put into your critiques. I am in the market for a new car, and the 4 was on my short list, vying for the top spot with the Alfa Romeo Giulia. You may have made up my mind... to me the new grill is very polarizing. Any chance you'd take a stab at reviewing the design of the Giulia? Thanks!
To anyone who has ever worked in a warehouse or factory. You know in the morning when you first go in. The manager turns the lights on and unlocks a metal gate and pushes it up with a "whooooosh" sound. That sound is exactly the sound of a new work- day. Getting down to business, grabbing the problem by the horns. That sound is what the grill is meant to evoke.
the front and side view just don't work well together. The sideview feels very soft and the front rougher edges and more aggressive. Doesn't work together at all for me.
The design feels super front-heavy. All this angles and aggressive-ness up front, and the sides are calm and smooth. It's like sticking a bulldozer plow on a toy wagon.
I had three brand new BMWs in my life. Today I cannot find a single model that is really appealing to me in their current products. Would only drive one for free…
A lot of customers will buy these just out of loyalty for the brand and BMW will continue down this same path. The best we can hope for is an LCI version with a more tasteful grille and bumper
I was loyal for a long time, but there isnt much to be loyal anymore ... its not just the mess of one car, the whole lineup and philosophy feels just way off
I am relieved that I am not the only one who thought ‘what.. is it..?’ for the front grill. I was not sure if that came from my lack of artistic imagination. Thank you for the video!
You can make a free facelift by crashing it na just joking lets hope someone made a body kit with a better looking front bumper for this thing soon like real soon lol it needs to be the first mod for the car XD
actually I think that one of BMW's greatest issues, even cheap cars can copy their style nowadays, and so they have to innovate their design to keep a brand identity, but that grill is not the way to do it
BMW is my favorite mass production car company since I was 16 ) as an amateur car designer I always tried to design my ideal BMW and I continue to do that until this day. Absolutely agree with the analysis, thank you! Even current M4’s grille’s air intake placed not vertically, they are horizontal. My biggest disappointment related to front fascia is that they got rid of round doubled headlights and separate kidney grille.✌️
“The things that make it a BMW are slowly dissolving and making it look like other cars...” That’s it, well said. That’s exactly the problem I’m having with a lot of the modern BMWs. I’m keeping my F30 because the design is gorgeous.
@@daltoncope6537 power steering in the F30 is fine (my wife drives an F34) compared to say an opel insignia. It may be electric, but you still get a decent feel for the road (unlike in other cars) - at least in sport mode. Sure it's a far cry from the steering feel of an E46, but it still feels sporty compared to other cars of the same year. You can have good electric power steering.
Thanks for these videos, very insightful design videos, it reminds why I had studied industrial design degree at University in Australia. The Copic markers brings back memories and the late nights drawing away. For many reasons I did not end up pursuing a design career but I still have a passion and these videos help me understand car design.
Could you do a video on how you would have designed the 4 series. That would be a brilliant insight to how you would have done it with your experiences on working with bmw in the past. Many respects frank. J.
What I love about Frank's designs are that they drive exactly like they look. The R53 Mini, the 12c, X5, even the Fiat 500 was comically enjoyable when I rented one in Sicily a while back. Hope he sees this comment! Big fan here, and there has to be a few more cars left in his career.
First I thought he's right, the front grill is ugly. Then I saw it in person and I changed my mind, the front grill is the best part. Very bold and it works.
I feel like they tried to mimic audi or mercedes in unifying the kidney grilles as one big center piece. Unfortunately it looses the bmw dna. Maybe if they did a better marketing campaign in explaining the design choices or referencing to historic bmw designs, it would have been received better. For example, when porsche was obliged to go 4 cylinder with their boxster, they remarketed it as the 718 and referenced it to historic and successful small porsches racecars. That took the attention away from the engine choice and made the car more appealing. Here, there is absolutely no purpose in making the grille that big as you said, so it’s really done for aesthetics only. Unfortunately it’s too much and doesn’t work well.
I think I only have two complaints with that car. The radar sensor could be a bit different and the back could look a bit lighter. When you look at it it looks like it's had a slight butt job. I have the 4 cylinder Giulia so I obviously love it but it could be improved
I understand why BMW went for that particular grille design but, I'm generally not a fan of fake grilles where large parts are actually blocked off as I believe beauty can often be found in the function of a part. Making large sections of it fake means it feels like design for the sake of design and almost over complicating the shape.
I had the fortune of owning a first gen x5 and the last small 740i... The only thing I'd complain about is fit and finish of the x5... Rover had to be the problem Speedo went, radio went, liner fell, every handle broke, suspension wore out, nagging battery drain, poor placement of battery, window shades broke, paint peeled on hood and roof,finally went to limp mode...
The one thing that damages the front image of the 4 series: They're trying to sell it to China. Which is common for the Chinese to own cars with big grilles that symbolizes their status.
This is rather ironic, considering that market studies show that it's actually the US that wants the big grilles, while the trend for China is smaller grilles
Hi Frank, it’s Martin your Marketing colleague of the MINI Launch in 1999/2000. Now I also want to ad something to the kidney grill of the new 4 series. When the car was presented I asked the BMW designer of this car (don’t want to place his name here) about the license plate, why it is fixed so unambitioned badly awful in the middle of the (also awful rough designed) grill. His answer was the most ignorant and arrogant answer one could give on this: he seriously answered it‘s not his problem that there needs to be an ugly license plate on the front of a car and so it must be somewhere. I was speechless, it‘s his baby and he doesn’t give a f* about the look of the front of his car where the license plate is part of, like it or not, you got to make the best out of it. And in this case it would have been to implement the plate on the right side of the lower end of the bumper (as many cars did it and even historic BMW‘s like the 328). Showing this kind of arrogance and ignorance and now begin to understand why the latest BMW‘s (7 facelift, 4, 2, XM…) look as uninspired and imperfect to the detail). This is damaging a brand and giving up the brand‘s heritage as BMW already did under Chris Bangle. I would have thought the designers would have learned from these horrible unsuccessful years and models.
The 4 series concept car at the Motorshow looked good. It didn't translate to the production model unfortunately. I also thought the 3.0 CSL Hommage is what the 4 series is supposed to look like. I think this car will sell really well if it was put into production. There has to be a way to make large vertical grills beautiful. Mercedes W108 1980s Rolls Royce 1938 BMW 328
This gentleman is the only one who has a qualified opinion on the 4 series . It's an educated opinion based on design and not personal preferences. He's discussing it as a whole, and not focusing just on the grille.
Are you one of those stuck up elitist people who think only designers ought to have an opinion on the design of things? (which btw is EXACTLY why modern BMWs look the way they do).
Andy Chavez, you, my friend, are a pretentious so and so. So this man has 'the only qualified opinion'. We all have qualified opinions. Perception and opinion are what will make or break this car. If you have no confidence in your own opinion it would best to keep it to yourself.
8:13, This is a good point. The grill is more round in the corners and the shape in general is completely different to all the other parts of the car. I think BMW themselves have noticed this and this is probably why the grill on the new M3/M4 are slightly sharper looking and suits the overall design more so.
I'm really glad to have found your channel! Apparently I owe thanks to the UA-cam "algorithm". I appreciate your honesty in reviewing this car. I agree with all of your points, except I also think it has too much / too long back overhang. As you said, the elephant in the room is the horrible front end, specifically the grill, which does not belong on a BMW. It's just awful. I also dislike that they omitted the Hofmeister kink. It's almost like the designer was ashamed of BMW's design language so the kink and the traditional kidney grills were replaced. Please review the G87 M2. I own an F87 M2C, which I like the look of, but I'm not a big fan of the G87.
The back is Lexus, the side is Infiniti, and the front.... is just hideous. As a current F82 owner, no way will I be "upgrading" to this. Maybe when they do an LCI they'll fix the front.
Faster facelift coming than any Bangle design imho. In fact when I compare the jumps BMW took in both of those eras - this one seems the most hasty and least thought out.. At least with Bangle - every question had an answer. This grill - answers Zed.
It does and I hate that. If they toned back the bulging of the the front and slightly smaller and refined looking and less sharp boxy back it would be so much better
I think this highlights how much Frank cares about the history of the marques he designs for and how much some new designers at BMW don't. There's a mass of arrogance in this design for me, as the recent BMW social media campaigns have shown.
Hi! What are your thoughts on the 4 Series? What do you think about that grill? Thanks for watching and I look forward to seeing all of your perspectives in the comments!
First impression, I don’t want it even tough i like the older 4 series
That grille should have really been saved for a halo car. And i am not talking about the 8 series. Edit: or the Z4 or other 2-seater
I don't really like it to be honest, I think such huge grills are not beautiful anymore, at least when they're so vertical. I think the current 7 series is the limit. The X7 is borderline. I think the current M4 is one of the more beautiful BMWs, together with the i8, M1 Procar, X5 and and the current 8 series. But I think it's still better than the i4 concept because on an EV such a huge grille like grafic doesn't serve any purpose, a reason the Tesla model S and X are my favorite EVs, they're modern and futuristic but still conservative enough to appeal to a wide audience.
Just want to say thanks for listening to our feedback and doing this video. We appreciate it. As for the 4 series, I have a feeling the design language will grow on us over time. It's polarizing because it's different to what we expect. That said, I don't think borrowing from Audi's narrow taillight design is going to do them any favors because it looks "done before"
Agree with everything you've said 👍🏻
"I'm not even sure BMW designed this... it's unrefined" the most polite insult to ever grace modern BMW's
But so true
This car from side and back looks like a new chinese kickstarter car brand that. I think all modern cars LOST their identities.. everything is same just complex electonic crap with more plastic, cup holders , sporty shit and USB ports.. just same crap at every manufacturer
Maybe some outsourcing to save costs
Lot of uninformed people here. It is paying homage to the bmw 303 grill ... this is a heritage inspired move. People are not talking about this.
@Mark A The 303 grill actually fitted the shapes of the rest of the car, this grill does not fit on this car.
Seems like Frank is a very nice man. He also hides pain quite well.
He's great at being diplomatic. You could tell deep down he was as repulsed as the rest of us but he put it very politely!
@@soundseeker63 You are 100% correct!
He gave 8 out 10 in his rate. That's kind.
He would do a great teacher
First there was Hide the Pain Harold and now there's Fake The Feels Frank.
BMW: We're making a statement.
Everyone: it's an overstatement.
Just like eeeeeeeeeeveryone else.
Still trying to think what was going through the designers mind.....I mean, didnt a single person at BMW say it looks horrible?
They probably forced them to say it looks good
Cmiiw, this is because Chinese market love big grill
Maybe BMW felt pressured to try and stay relevant design wise?
They changed subtle BMW designs into basically an Audi. Mercedes is at least still trying to do it's own thing (although I am personally not a fan of their design)
they think a new generation of millennials will like it. Like "I don't care if it's beautiful or not - IT"S A BMW AND I HAVE MONEYYYYY"
I’m 48 years old now and I’ve only owned BMWs since I got my drivers license at age 18. Because the unique BMW design language speaks to my heart. Even during the Chris Bangle spell, when I didn’t care much for the design of the 7 and 6 series, at least the 3 and 5 series were still ok. Nowadays when I look at their current line (way too many models by the way) I can only appreciate the 3 series. Everything else is so ugly with the new 4 series as prime example. I truely and deeply hope that we just have to sit through this one generation and that BMW will return to form for the next one. Otherwise I’ll be forced to look elsewhere after 30 years of being a loyal customer...
It depends on the sales. If they make more money than with the current 4 series it is a success and they will stick with it. If sales drop they’ll change it with an early facelift I think.
I hope BMW EXECUTIVE will read your statement. Chapeau bas for the 30 years loyalty. I was able to be loyal 6 years then i went to an estate car from Audi
Personally I love the new 5 series so far
@@homerles in fair n'est all the bmw looks good. Only the next 3,4 serie looks terrible
@I CUwell i never had reliability issue.
Frank: "Very aggressive lines, it lacks the Hofmeister knick, the kidney grill is not coherent with BMW's design identity..."
Doug: "It looks like a Wombat"
Bmw do take a lot of chances as they evolve design-wise in the end if you don't like it at first it will grow on you.
The front clip is their version of any alfa of the past 15 yrs and that's not a bad idea to expound upon given that the prodigious surface area of the grill will aid in cooling. The rear 3rd looks all Audi S5. A set of recessed non-5star wheels will set it of considerably. The rear is very attractive and follows the theme began in the front utilizing the side vents which in this case will also double as a high diffuser. The M version with the aero bits, skirts, splitters, black carbon roof with the special wheels should be breathtaking.
I can hear a stock chimpanzee sound in my mind at reading this.
@@RDSyafriyar do you have an opinion on the styling ?? What do you see in it ?
@@theraggededgeonboardfastes8461 there are differences between "evolving the design" and "losing the identity"
Chris Bangle's design might got a lot of flak initially, but he did keep the design identity (Hofmeister's kink, proper twin kidney grille, proportion, smooth curves from classic 303).
This doesn't even look like BMW anymore.
Dukec: "You can't please everyone"
Doesn't mean you get to displease almost everyone
You can displease everyone
I love how he demonstrated the demeanor of "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all"
“X5 designer” is an understatement of what you have actually done.
Well, he styled it, he didn't design it.
Probably 150+ people designed it for Crash, NVH, durability, Ergonomics, Packaging. Ride and Handling, Aero etc.
It really annoys me when 1 person says they _designed_ a car, which is a massive disrespect to many teams of engineers that really DO design it.
@@lewis72 why you have to be mad?
Engineering and design are two totally different things. In the old days car designers were infact stylists but now designers work with engineers to make it all happen. Of course it’s a team effort but the design is often from one person’s vision and that usually gets the best results.
@@kobbetop
Engineers design many parts of the car.
Engines are _designed_ Nothing to do with stylists.
Crash integrity is designed.
Ride and handling is designed.
Lewis72 You’re so fucking wrong. Not because you don’t have a point, but because you think you are the only one who’s right. Of course he did design it. If 150 people design a car. All of them are the designer of the car. So if he participated in the X5’s design process, he IS an X5 Designer. Also he didn’t say anywhere that he was THE designer. Dumbass.
6:30 "ehm... uhm..." I know, it's hard to be polite.
It's hard to be polite when you're about to vomit.
6:39
I'd love to see his reaction on the BMW X7 lol
I went to art school and majored in graphic design, and Frank's reaction to the buck tooth beaver grille parallels my design professor's reaction to any designs I showed him that just flat out weren't good lol. I loved your critique design analysis Frank, very objectively honest!
@@highland96 actually the grill on the X7 it's not that bad consider how big the car is
Looks like a Mustang from the side... funny how a “kink” makes all the difference! Awesome video Maestro‼️✌🏼😊
Exactly what I thought.
I agree
Don't forget that high waistline, the kink + high waistline is what makes a BMW.
Looking at this car from the sides only I cant even tell if it's a BMW or not, it just looks generic and soulless.
So this is exactly my issue with the S550 Mustang. Looks like a European car. Seems like cars everywhere are losing their design aesthetic. The previous 4 series was one of the best looking cars to ever grace the road. Same for the late-model S197 Mustangs. But then.... modernisation!
Indeed
I've had a shit ton of BMW's and love the brand but they have truly lost their way.
: (
Same but I think it’s just moving forward. They can’t move backwards
@C0mmand 0ption Hyundai has a crazy design language but it actually looks good. Crazy can still look great if done right
@@jakegutierrez2323 No. they have to retain the “Formsprache” of the marque. Instead they’re eroding it away
@@Montezuma0 exactly. Hyundai is proof that it can be done right.
The extent of his praise was “the wheels are in the right place” lmao
Also kink is “not bad”
The Polestar 1 has been getting a lot of attention design wise lately, I would really like your take on it!
This 👆
Yess it is awesome
They look minimal and everything so it’s perfect
quality but of looks shit...
Yeah absolutely! I would love the polestar
The high percentage alcohol always in hand's reach. Now this is a designer I can get behind
Relax
@@aaryanbhardwaj5293 you didn't get it
6:45 It's just the exact reaction when the professor of programming course in uni, saw the assignments of the students.
The grill redesign of Mercedes Benz was much making sense.
BMW’s design language always has been “Subtle with a Huge presence”
This screams LOOK AT ME
E39 was the epitomy of that sentence!
Or the Z8.
I actually think the complete opposite, this is much less aggressive, much more organic feeling with softer body lines. I don't like it at all, but I don't think it's has any sort of particular presence from any angle except the front.
@@DPW864 compared to what car? The old 4 series?
No, this screams
My nose go: *Sniff Sniff*
Yeah, without presence. Lol
The grille looks like the butt print someone left on a waiting room chair.
Right, I am not a fan of the latest bmw grills, starting from the x5 2020 version...
At a liposuction clinic
This is future car design. Tailor made n customability for each customer. Who doesnt want his or her very butt print as the front car grill of their cars. Now this is genius idea there for future of automobile design.
More like balls hanging out.... You can thank China for that, China loves them big grills
Honestly the 3 series grille is the only good grille that they have right now. The rest is Alright at best.
Hi Frank,
Loving the videos. As an Australian industrial designer I've always had a fascination in our local car industry.
I'd love to see an episode reviewing modern Australian car design up until its unfortunate collapse in the mid 2010's.
Some notable models include:
Holden Commodore VE SS (as well as the VF SS after it)
Ford Falcom FG XR6 (and the FGX XR6 after it)
HSV Maloo R08
Holden Monaro CV8
And for a meme, the Ford falcon AU Forte.
Cheers.
Frank is far too classy to say it's Fugly, so I'll do it for him.
You wanted to say “it looks like a Lexus”, don’t you...
It literally looks like an RCF from the side😐
At least the Lexus grill looks better.
They wanted to copy Lexus and Audi with the big grill.
A Lexus that married a Mustang.
ghibli608 it wishes...
Finally, I found someone with my same opinion. I started thinking to be crazy
You’ve been far too kind. The front is a mess, even amateurish.
Its a gentleman :D
it's like they decided to fire every designer from the beautiful F32, and instead just hired some filthy casual car render junkie online to do their latest design. the new look is so cheap.
I'll have the Alfa Romeo, please!
It clownish
@@derek400004 "beautiful F32" lmao
It looked exactly like 3 series because it is a 2 door 3 series, which is almost identical to 5 series from the front. What designers if 4 series didn't have a design at all? 🤣 It literally doesn't matter what they change and how it looks, you get a feeling of satisfaction by shitting on everything new and circlejerking with your flock and you'll do it no matter what.
Frank's accolades are among the highest in his profession yet he comes across as very approachable without sacrificing class.
„Lets talk about the elephant in the room: ähm eh....first of all i like the headlights.“
“I don’t like the fact that cars are getting bigger and bigger all the time” 🙏🙏🙏🙏 this right here !!!! I don’t understand why every car manufacturer is doing this! The proportions of some of the outgoing models were far superior!
In no particular order, 1. Safety guidelines, 2. Increased headroom 3. Increased cargo capacity. I share the same sentiment as you, but I don’t think manufacturers can do anything about it unfortunately.
Corduroy why do they need to? If a customer doesn’t like the amount of space in a 3 series, go shopping for a 5 series. 4 series not big enough? Look at the 6 series (now 8 I guess?). No reason to continually make every segment bigger. It’s getting out of control. At this point, the only normal size car they will have will be the 2 series.
Russell Brown Manufacturers don’t base their decisions off of UA-cam fanboys though. If their market research shows that people want more room, that’s how they’ll decide. And safety guidelines are not optional obviously.
Corduroy ok, outdated pants style. That’s a great insight. I’m sure they don’t. How the UA-cam fanboys collectively feel about something I believe is a good enough indicator of how the market will respond. The guys (including me) that were into M3s won’t be interested in them starting with this generation. They’re getting way too big to be a legitimate performance car. Most Bmer drivers don’t want to feel like they’re driving a bathtub around. The M2 will be the only legit sports car they have left for this new generation. The rest are grotesquely large and have lost their iconic looks and handling. Now, where you get the idea that size is connected to safety I have no idea. These cars are already plenty big and heavy.
because fat people?
The new BMW front design seems satirical. Utterly terrible.
Spot on... honestly thought the first pic. I saw was a joke
I think it might be like a fuck you statement so its kind of cool in that way. With the license plate right on top. I could see myself buying it just to be a troll.
RIP FALLEN AFRKICAN LEGENDS Genesis is its own brand now
They did it for the Chinese market.
Such a shame especially since the new headlights are sexy
i can't believe this guy is so nice and down to earth
I arrived here from the Harry's Garage video and I had a lot of fun listening to your very polite description of the front grill, trying not to totally destroy the designer for getting paid and making that mess. I worked in consultancy for years (IT, not design) but I can relate a lot to what you mention both here and on Harry's video about button-less touchscreens. The problem in both cases is that the very basic elements (license plate and tactile feedback) were an afterthought. Someone put together a fancy concept, which then is made "realistic" for a production model, and you keep making modifications here and there but at the end you get something defective by design which doesn't fulfill it's reason to exist. Here we have a humongous front grill which doesn't suck in air and makes the car look ugly. And instead the beautiful headlights, your sight gets stuck to the grill
👍
Side: looks like a Honda
Back: looks like a Lexus
Front: looks like a joke
I'm very disappointed with this offering as a customer who has previously owned: E46, E92 and F82
I'm more of a BMW Motorrad man myself but it's the same story on two wheels. Compare the love it or hate it old S1000RR to the current, is it a Honda? version.
@@gerardmontgomery280 in many ways we can be glad. We reached "peak BMW". It was always a very expensive hobby. Now I just wish I still had some of my old cars.
Front looks like a pig snout
100% agreed! Honda accord coupe is just like it on the side.
I wouldn't really mind the back even though it doesn't look like a BMW sadly.
But that front grill??? Oh god this has to be the ugliest thing ever created, it's really bad!
Rear reminds me Jaguar
T50 hypercar by Gordon Murray design review pls
Yes please.
Lubos Patak how old are you?
@@lubospatak459 wrong. nothing from a mechanical perspective is overrated about the T50.
@@lubospatak459 what I thought it was great
@@lubospatak459 I agree 100%. There's really nothing special about it at all. It's a very generic design and too much like the F1 but worse.
It's still probably gonna be the greatest driving car of all time though lol
Great video! As a designer myself (architect) I appreciate the thoughtfulness you put into your critiques. I am in the market for a new car, and the 4 was on my short list, vying for the top spot with the Alfa Romeo Giulia. You may have made up my mind... to me the new grill is very polarizing. Any chance you'd take a stab at reviewing the design of the Giulia? Thanks!
Soon as you said front view and started to grin, we all knew and agreed lol.
6:42 sums up my thoughts perfectly
😁
The fact that D.B Cooper is Loki in the MCU is funny
*Hits blunt*
"I wanna put gigantic beaver teeth on a Q60..."
Lmaooo looks exactly like a Q60 to me too. Especially from side view
I work at an infinity dealership and everyone there also agrees😂😂
Hits it again: "and make sure you put the licence plate right in the middle.. yes in front of the grille"
If you block out everything except the side of the car anyone will say it's a q60/g35
🤣🤣🤣
Hated to grill at first.. but its grown on me and i now like it.
To anyone who has ever worked in a warehouse or factory. You know in the morning when you first go in. The manager turns the lights on and unlocks a metal gate and pushes it up with a "whooooosh" sound. That sound is exactly the sound of a new work- day. Getting down to business, grabbing the problem by the horns. That sound is what the grill is meant to evoke.
I'd love to see BMW go in the opposite direction and use very small kidney grills like the 90s 7 series.
100%
Me too, more i8 or E31 850
Just keep the good ones they finally sorted out in the F10 5 series.. ;) (Which are basically, slightly larger E46 era kidneys)
Exactly! Taller and thinner grills, just like the old M3 E30.
Considering how so many walks of life are referencing retro stuff right now, I can't wait for car manufacturers to join.
the front and side view just don't work well together. The sideview feels very soft and the front rougher edges and more aggressive. Doesn't work together at all for me.
Exactly, they made the sides look like a late 90's alfa romeo, and the front is made specifically for the Chinese market.
The side reminds me of the c class coupe 7:25
And I do agree, the front Is not only horrible, but doesn't suit the side and the rear either
The design feels super front-heavy. All this angles and aggressive-ness up front, and the sides are calm and smooth. It's like sticking a bulldozer plow on a toy wagon.
The side view looks a lot like a mustang and the front view reminds me of a alpha Romeo
I had three brand new BMWs in my life. Today I cannot find a single model that is really appealing to me in their current products. Would only drive one for free…
I hated the grills but once you see it in person a few times, it begins to grow on you
Does it ever STOP growing? It’s BIG enough!
I agree, that front grille "kidney" looks more like an open waffle iron
What a proper adjective!
Hahahaha
A lot of customers will buy these just out of loyalty for the brand and BMW will continue down this same path. The best we can hope for is an LCI version with a more tasteful grille and bumper
Agreed
I won't. Customer lost.
I was loyal for a long time, but there isnt much to be loyal anymore ... its not just the mess of one car, the whole lineup and philosophy feels just way off
Justin Buice I read the new (2020) X3 doesn’t drive the same as the as for example, E53.
if the new 3 series gets this cartoonishly large oversized disaster of a grille. I will turn in my current lease and get a Lexus IS350.
And now in 2024 this car looks better than anything else in its class ...
…not.
I am relieved that I am not the only one who thought ‘what.. is it..?’ for the front grill. I was not sure if that came from my lack of artistic imagination. Thank you for the video!
This car needs a face lift soon. Literally.
@Dacia Sandero guys I don't know about that , if I bought the old 4 series, I'd be feeling pretty smug right now.
Even bigger grill LOL
Well since it got one not so long ago, you'll have to live with it...
Well, I do not really care.
You can make a free facelift by crashing it na just joking lets hope someone made a body kit with a better looking front bumper for this thing soon like real soon lol it needs to be the first mod for the car XD
the missing hofmeister kink is exactly what I noticed right away. To be frank: It pisses me off!
Maybe it's just me but the second he started discussing it I thought Honda Accord coupe.
This line reminds me of Audi A5
You don’t mess with the Hofmeister . It’s kind of like starting with DOT safety parameters... you start there and work around them.
I agree, the kink makes it look more muscular. That's why I love previous BMW coupes.
“Knick“ in German
Like your glasses Frank👍 Thank you again for your lovely Modern Timeless design on my 2005 Mini Cooper S JCW!
I love your BMW related content, Frank. It's so interesting to hear your thoughts on current gen BMW designs.
BMW is losing its charisma. New Asian cars look almost like new BMWs
actually I think that one of BMW's greatest issues, even cheap cars can copy their style nowadays, and so they have to innovate their design to keep a brand identity, but that grill is not the way to do it
royalbangal101 agree. It’s an Infiniti side and rear
Well Hyundai bought out Albert beirmen from bmw(he engineered the e30 m3) and a few Audi designers........
Miguel Garcia well that makes sense. Hyundai have really improved their design in recent years
your reaction at 6:40 is priceless !!!
BMW is my favorite mass production car company since I was 16 ) as an amateur car designer I always tried to design my ideal BMW and I continue to do that until this day. Absolutely agree with the analysis, thank you! Even current M4’s grille’s air intake placed not vertically, they are horizontal. My biggest disappointment related to front fascia is that they got rid of round doubled headlights and separate kidney grille.✌️
I can hear the car yelling "where's your manager?"
"Most wanted guy right now who designed the grill" and the one approved it💀
Guy so designed the grill:
Objective: survive
This is is what i call a DESIGNER!!! He knows exactly what He is talking about!!!
He should design 4 series as well..
He designed just about every modern Mclaren road car!
Thanks, Frank. My wife dropped her 25-year relationship w BMW based on this design choice. She went to MB.
It is a pleasure listening to you express your views.
6:41 that moment you realize even the bmw designer cannot stand the ugly grills
This car looks like a fancy KIA, not saying KIA doesn't make nice looking cars just NOT A BMW AT ALL.
Meanwhile imo it looks like a mustang with bmw front face :v
XxGødZ!llaxX I think the sides look like a modern mustang
No, the new KIA K5 has outstanding design.
oh well... i stop buy BMW very long time now...
Exactly my thoughts, when I saw it from the side I thought it was either a Stinger or some modern Hyundai for a moment
You remind me of President Snow from the Hunger Games lol
Agree with your assessment again Frank. Keep up the great work! Dominic
Should've left "The Kink" alone. Looks like an Audi from the side.
I say it looks like a Lexus RCF from the side
Rear lights remind me way too much of the recent A3 too.
2017 Honda Accord 2 door... Only the Honda has more of the C pillar window kink than this BMW.
“The things that make it a BMW are slowly dissolving and making it look like other cars...” That’s it, well said. That’s exactly the problem I’m having with a lot of the modern BMWs. I’m keeping my F30 because the design is gorgeous.
F30 styling is nice but driving dynamics are no where near as nice as the e90!
@@marwanmalek2147 how so ?
Jb Vay no hydraulic power steering for one
@@daltoncope6537 power steering in the F30 is fine (my wife drives an F34) compared to say an opel insignia. It may be electric, but you still get a decent feel for the road (unlike in other cars) - at least in sport mode. Sure it's a far cry from the steering feel of an E46, but it still feels sporty compared to other cars of the same year. You can have good electric power steering.
You know what? I think the previous gen 4 series will be even more expensive in 2. Hand market because its way better looking than this “something”.
Thanks for these videos, very insightful design videos, it reminds why I had studied industrial design degree at University in Australia. The Copic markers brings back memories and the late nights drawing away. For many reasons I did not end up pursuing a design career but I still have a passion and these videos help me understand car design.
Man... I’d kill to hear Frank’s thoughts on the hated 996 911s.
"Separate the 2 grills"
Thank you!
Could you do a video on how you would have designed the 4 series. That would be a brilliant insight to how you would have done it with your experiences on working with bmw in the past. Many respects frank. J.
The side profile of the car just kind of looks like a Mustang. The front view is what the Hell were they thinking?
Thank you so much for backing up my thoughts.
6:40 my professor in first year auto design class when everyone put there work up for the first time.
loooool. My professor in senior design aeronautical engineering, THIS DESIGN WILL NOT FLY
What I love about Frank's designs are that they drive exactly like they look. The R53 Mini, the 12c, X5, even the Fiat 500 was comically enjoyable when I rented one in Sicily a while back.
Hope he sees this comment! Big fan here, and there has to be a few more cars left in his career.
First I thought he's right, the front grill is ugly. Then I saw it in person and I changed my mind, the front grill is the best part. Very bold and it works.
9:40, well, this BM has 7 radiators (1 AC, 4 Cooling, 1 for oil and 1 for the transmission), but this, this,... ahhhHhHhhh
*dies
Couldn't have agreed more with," A certain sense of refinement that you have to bring in when you do something like this."
Politeness at its best.
Great analysis. What are your thoughts on the alpine A110?
Im so happy my E46 doesent look like this lol
Those giant grilles are a metaphor for how big and valuable your kidneys have to be in order to afford the new cars
I feel like they tried to mimic audi or mercedes in unifying the kidney grilles as one big center piece. Unfortunately it looses the bmw dna. Maybe if they did a better marketing campaign in explaining the design choices or referencing to historic bmw designs, it would have been received better. For example, when porsche was obliged to go 4 cylinder with their boxster, they remarketed it as the 718 and referenced it to historic and successful small porsches racecars. That took the attention away from the engine choice and made the car more appealing. Here, there is absolutely no purpose in making the grille that big as you said, so it’s really done for aesthetics only. Unfortunately it’s too much and doesn’t work well.
Have him review the new GMA T.50. That's a car that is disregarding a lot of these dubious new design trends.
That car is boring as fuck to look at. if it wasn't for the fan in its butt, the front looks like a generic kit-kar.
Glad to have found your channel. Knowledgeable, respectful and sincere opinions. Great content.
BMW tail lights have been some of the most iconic in the car industry. Those tail lights look like like they came off a q50 or a new Elantra.
See wot I done came in a black benz left in a white one ima badmans innit
This was 100% on point. It’s like you pointed out what made me feel what I was feeling and now I know why.
The alfa romeo giulia quadrifoglio! Would love to hear your insight on the design cues of the car.
I think I only have two complaints with that car. The radar sensor could be a bit different and the back could look a bit lighter. When you look at it it looks like it's had a slight butt job. I have the 4 cylinder Giulia so I obviously love it but it could be improved
I so wished that Alfa Romeo would build a coupé and a station wagon Giulia too and not just a sedan...
@@stephankrain I would prefer a coupe but right now I just want them to release the Tonale so they can get more sales and stay alive.
@@JStryker7 Maybe they would have had more success with more autobody variants 🤷🏼♂️ But I do support you in hoping for their success in general 🤞🏻
Great analysis! It looks like an "Angry Beaver" from the front
I was sweating with anticipation when he got to the front end....we all knew it was coming lmao
The Car almost looks like its wearing a mask 😂
It's another level of conditioning to get us to be comfortable with wearing masks. Lol
I understand why BMW went for that particular grille design but, I'm generally not a fan of fake grilles where large parts are actually blocked off as I believe beauty can often be found in the function of a part. Making large sections of it fake means it feels like design for the sake of design and almost over complicating the shape.
Every single car designer needs to see your comment.
Why'd BMW choose that grille? The older 4 Series' grilles were much better looking.
@@marius1873 more to do with engineers and aero
@@marius1873 when the roadster will come out?
Great observation and perspective on the subject, have to def agree my brother
I had the fortune of owning a first gen x5 and the last small 740i... The only thing I'd complain about is fit and finish of the x5... Rover had to be the problem Speedo went, radio went, liner fell, every handle broke, suspension wore out, nagging battery drain, poor placement of battery, window shades broke, paint peeled on hood and roof,finally went to limp mode...
I'm addicted to your videos, they are so interesting and relaxing! :)
6:40 I just love your reaction!
Like it just hurts his soul
The one thing that damages the front image of the 4 series: They're trying to sell it to China. Which is common for the Chinese to own cars with big grilles that symbolizes their status.
It's China's world, our eyes just bleed in it.
This is rather ironic, considering that market studies show that it's actually the US that wants the big grilles, while the trend for China is smaller grilles
Not that difficult to design a grille/bumper just for the chinese market if that's the case, but I doubt it.
They could simply mod it for that market.
No, even the Chinese can't accept the grill
Hi Frank, it’s Martin your Marketing colleague of the MINI Launch in 1999/2000. Now I also want to ad something to the kidney grill of the new 4 series. When the car was presented I asked the BMW designer of this car (don’t want to place his name here) about the license plate, why it is fixed so unambitioned badly awful in the middle of the (also awful rough designed) grill. His answer was the most ignorant and arrogant answer one could give on this: he seriously answered it‘s not his problem that there needs to be an ugly license plate on the front of a car and so it must be somewhere. I was speechless, it‘s his baby and he doesn’t give a f* about the look of the front of his car where the license plate is part of, like it or not, you got to make the best out of it. And in this case it would have been to implement the plate on the right side of the lower end of the bumper (as many cars did it and even historic BMW‘s like the 328).
Showing this kind of arrogance and ignorance and now begin to understand why the latest BMW‘s (7 facelift, 4, 2, XM…) look as uninspired and imperfect to the detail). This is damaging a brand and giving up the brand‘s heritage as BMW already did under Chris Bangle. I would have thought the designers would have learned from these horrible unsuccessful years and models.
The 4 series concept car at the Motorshow looked good. It didn't translate to the production model unfortunately.
I also thought the 3.0 CSL Hommage is what the 4 series is supposed to look like. I think this car will sell really well if it was put into production.
There has to be a way to make large vertical grills beautiful.
Mercedes W108
1980s Rolls Royce
1938 BMW 328
This gentleman is the only one who has a qualified opinion on the 4 series . It's an educated opinion based on design and not personal preferences. He's discussing it as a whole, and not focusing just on the grille.
It's been made quite difficult to not focus on the grille..
Are you one of those stuck up elitist people who think only designers ought to have an opinion on the design of things? (which btw is EXACTLY why modern BMWs look the way they do).
What difference does it make? The conclusion is still that it's a bad grill.
Andy Chavez
Wrong. Potential customers have a say too because they are those who buy the car.
Andy Chavez, you, my friend, are a pretentious so and so. So this man has 'the only qualified opinion'. We all have qualified opinions. Perception and opinion are what will make or break this car. If you have no confidence in your own opinion it would best to keep it to yourself.
I love how everyone was asking Frank to criticize the 4 series and then he does and boom 300k views 😅
Tough to wrong giving the people what they want. It's a reasonable strategy for success.
8:13, This is a good point. The grill is more round in the corners and the shape in general is completely different to all the other parts of the car. I think BMW themselves have noticed this and this is probably why the grill on the new M3/M4 are slightly sharper looking and suits the overall design more so.
I'm really glad to have found your channel! Apparently I owe thanks to the UA-cam "algorithm". I appreciate your honesty in reviewing this car. I agree with all of your points, except I also think it has too much / too long back overhang. As you said, the elephant in the room is the horrible front end, specifically the grill, which does not belong on a BMW. It's just awful. I also dislike that they omitted the Hofmeister kink. It's almost like the designer was ashamed of BMW's design language so the kink and the traditional kidney grills were replaced.
Please review the G87 M2. I own an F87 M2C, which I like the look of, but I'm not a big fan of the G87.
The back is Lexus, the side is Infiniti, and the front.... is just hideous. As a current F82 owner, no way will I be "upgrading" to this. Maybe when they do an LCI they'll fix the front.
Oh really? The LCI which the grill will get even bigger by 20%?
Faster facelift coming than any Bangle design imho. In fact when I compare the jumps BMW took in both of those eras - this one seems the most hasty and least thought out.. At least with Bangle - every question had an answer. This grill - answers Zed.
Front is Hyundai.
It has a lot of mustang styling cues
It does and I hate that. If they toned back the bulging of the the front and slightly smaller and refined looking and less sharp boxy back it would be so much better
Side profile looks almost 1:1
Rear and front are VERY aggressive and different though.
I think this highlights how much Frank cares about the history of the marques he designs for and how much some new designers at BMW don't. There's a mass of arrogance in this design for me, as the recent BMW social media campaigns have shown.