Thank you man. My daughter came home from work at 2am and was freaking out. Hard not to be pumped when you think a car is DOA and it turns out to be an easy fix.
@@lancepogodzinski8768 my Fiancé's car has been making this noise and at first I thought it was the Valves so I popped off the Valve Cover and the Valves and Camshaft looked great and were getting oil so I was having a Hard time figuring it out because it sounds like it's coming from the Valves
You know what? The best part about this video is you using the light and mirror to show the clip and giving more information on how to do it. That part is so far back in the engine bay that I was pretty much guessing what to do to get it disconnected. In fact the first two times I tried I couldn’t get it off at all.
Just some advice folks, don't just load up the parts cannon on this type of issue. You have to do diag, and perform the wiring harness test I go over in the video. The GM Ecotec 1.4L has a *normal* ticking sound simply due to its fuel injector design. What you're looking for is an _additional_ abnormal sound, in this videos case, specifically from a failing purge solenoid assembly. If you do not get the results shown in the video, your sound source is elsewhere. These solenoids are not whisper quiet to begin with, but they are also not supposed to be audible from a distance while the engine is idling either. That's what this repair vid is about addressing.
I did the test like you and the noise stopped so I put a new part in and it makes the same noise. It is loud and like I said stopped when I disconnected the power. So why would it still make this noise?
Tough to say, as you can read thru the comments for the vast majority of us this is what to do to repair this noise issue. If you can hear the noise inside the car with the doors closed and the windows up, only then is this a problem. It's _normal_ for this GM engine to make a ticking noise you can hear with the hood up. What you're listening for is not no noise, but _less_ noise. I can suggest two considerations if you still have the _hear it inside the car_ problem: Did you use a genuine GM ACDelco part? Aftermarket ones are typically of inferior quality and construction. Is there a check engine light, or a stored history diagnostic trouble code (DTC) in the computers memory? The noise may be related to another component in the same EVAP system.
Awesome video man! And thank you for all the helpful replys below. True competence is often best displayed by effective communication. You sure nailed that one.
No. That is the effect of over pressurization. That is not the cause. You have a bad timing chain tensioner. The timeing is off just so slightly that it causes back pressure. It will just break again until you tear apart the front of the engine and replace the time chain tensioner. 1:37
@@robertolson7304 hi im having this problem with my ford fiesta 2012 it stalls when you push the gas after a stop. And it also has a very very bad starting after every full up
@@robertolson7304 what he described is absolutely a symptom of a fault purge solenoid. What you’re suggesting is analogous to getting brain surgery for a headache. Start simple
Thanks Doc.i have the same issue and went ahead and unplugged it and it made no change.it does get alot quieter when warmed up.just got this 2015 cruze with the 1.4 turbo.i remember my 2014 silverado was also noisy as heck and i listened 2 a few new trucks and had the same noise.they said it was the high pressure fuel system as well.awesome video!
Thank you. My thinking is that this is what UA-cam was created to do. Helpful money saving advice. Mind you on my 2018 they seem to have changed the damn clip so it's different now.
Just remember these solenoids are not _quiet_ at all. As I mentioned in the video, the sound is a problem only when it gets loud enough to hear in the cabin or over the engine noise with the hood closed.
Just remember, as I had mentioned, it is perfectly normal with these GM Ecotec engines that there will be _some_ sound. It's a solenoid after all. But you should not hear it from inside the cabin, or with the hood closed. That's when it has worn enough to consider this repair.
I understand that the purge valve is responsible for the ticking, but I am wondering what moving parts are inside the purge valve that are actually moving back and forth, causing the ticking....
Mine in particular is actually something else is a louder tick and especially when u rev so come to find out it’s a exhaust leak in front engine bay gonna get it back today from shop and see for sure
Totally a cosmetic issue (acoustic) in the beginning. You do not have to be concerned with functionality until the vehicle shows the check engine light on the dash.
Had the EXACT same problem with my Opel Adam S they use the same engines, 1.4T, replaced it under warranty back then. Now after 3 years it came back. The noise also comes after the car is idle a little and got warm already, it wont make any noise when cold
My car never made this noise, and I replaced the evap purge valve, and it started ticking. I'm just gonna live with it for now that I know it's not the timing chain making that noise.
If I remove the dipstick or the oil cap while the engine is on, it shakes too much and pulls in a lot of air. I complained to the seller and he said it was normal. He said that's how that type of engine is.😢
It is _normal_ for this particular GM engine in turbocharged form to have _some_ vacuum (i.e., suction) from either the dipstick, or oil cap, even at idle. It may even make a noticeable noise of the air rushing in when doing opening either. However, you shouldn't be checking the oil level, or adding oil, on this type of engine while it is running though. It cannot be done reliably on this model, and its very likely to end up with oil splash all over. This is because the turbocharger is involved with crankcase ventilation on this model engine. Opening up either can also cause a change in idle rpm, and may even generate a DTC, again perfectly normal for this particular GM engine because opening either of those introduces a vacuum leak. _Excessive vacuum_ however can indicate a problem with either the integral vent on the camshaft cover, or bypass valve in the intake manifold. But you want to assess the health of this particular model engine _without_ opening either the dipstick or cap. Other engines will be different in behavior, this video is about a particular one with its own unique quirks.
@@DrShock I asked you to start the engine because it doesn't always work. In my case I changed it to a new one and the ticking sound continued. Then I took the car to the dealership and he cleaned the tubes connected to the evaporator and reprogrammed it according to what he said and the sound disappeared. Now it works fine.
The Ecotec 1.4L turbo is a ticker by nature, but when you have one of these purge solenoids go you will *definitely* notice it as louder than the baseline ticking. ;-)
I replaced mine but as soon as a couple minutes with the car on it starts making a loud ticking noise.. before replacing i did have purge valve code and after fueling with gas the car would hesitate before installing a new purge valve
Hi. This might be unrelated but really want to figure this out if possible. I have a 2012 Chevy sonic that when it rains, the ac stops cooling and the temperature in the radio shows as -40 degrees. As long as it is not raining it works really well. I assume that the undercarriage getting wet had something to do with the failure but might be wrong. TIA
The temperature displayed on the radio is the outside ambient air temperature. It is provided by a sensor mounted in the front bumper fascia. On the RH (pass) side I believe for the Sonic. You might check the condition of the wiring harness and sensor itself for damage allowing for water intrusion when it rains.
This particular GM engine has a _normal_ ticking to it. When the purge solenoid ages it adds to the melody. The unplug/plug test I showed in the video is how you determine if you have an _abnormal_ ticking noise issue relating to the purge solenoid. The solenoid obviously makes _some_ sound when it's functioning, but as it ages the sound becomes much louder, pending a failure. If during the unplug test you are still hearing what you're commenting on, it's not related to the purge solenoid. It could be _normal_ or something else, like an exhaust manifold leak (that also makes a _ticca ticca ticca_ sound. Or an internal engine component from low oil, wear etc. Many things.
Check the hose that connects from the canister valve to the intake manifold. Also called the purge line. Sometimes there will be a ball check piece inside the hose itself that could be making the noise. If so, replace the hose, you should be able to feel it as well.
Here is how I stopped mine from ticking: I originally bought an off-brand purge valve and I put it on. It caused ticking still and the check engine light even went on. I researched around and I was reading an Amazon review on the AC Delco brand part. Someone had the same issue. All they said was they returned the off-brand part and bought the AC Delco Brand Part and it stopped the ticking. I installed the AC Delco Part just yesterday and my ticking noise is gone for now. I was looking for a comment like this all over so hopefully someone can find this information instead of searching all over.
Can this cause a startup problem due to excessive negative tank pressure ? I'm definetly getting the noise and the vehicle acted like it was starving for gas at startup(it would run for a few seconds and then die). Thanks for the video.
Usually what happens here is, if you ignore the noise and do not replace it proactively, the solenoid eventually fails enough where you get a check engine lamp on the dash lit with a code you can pull with a scan tool. This part completely failing can cause the start symptoms you describe, but you may have multiple failures going on. I'd start with pulling the codes with a scan tool (not all of them will trigger the check engine lamp), and work that list first.
I had an EVAP code and I replaced my evap solenoid. The brand new one that I just put on is making a ticking I've never heard before. Is there something wrong with the part?
Sounds like a non-GM aftermarket part? If so some cheaper aftermarket brands are just noisy if you read thru earlier comments here. That's not typically indicative of a problem per say.
Thanks for the video..its awesome !! Btw, what will happen if we not replace the Canister?? It just make an anoying sound or it can make the engine damage ??
Thanks. No, this noise problem causes no damage if ignored. Eventually the solenoid will fail to operate properly and cause a check engine light in the instrument cluster to come on. The solenoid is part of the emissions system, to reduce pollution of the air we all breath. Once the check engine light is on, it is a repair that you will have to do at that point to pass state inspection, if your state checks the vehicle for emissions compliance.
Nah, not on this GM engine. Only emissions. Of course if the vacuum hoses going into and out of this part are damaged/open, that could lead to driveability issues but that's unrelated to the EVAP solenoid function itself.
Hi friend. I have a question. I have a 2012 Cruze. I just bought one and when I remove the oil cap it sucks in a lot of air and shakes too much to the point of almost shutting off. HELP
Just ran out of time with the cars owner needing it back, as mentioned at 4:55. It's a pretty cut and dry diagnosis here as shown with the harness disconnect/reconnect test. Just remember that there's always ticking with an Ecotec 1.4L. And there is some sound that _normally_ comes from an operating purge solenoid. It's just a question of _abnormal_ ticking that you might notice that was *not* there before. There are several sources for such new sounds, this is only _one_ of the possibilities.
At this stage, where you have no trouble codes posted, it's just a cosmetic type of problem and nothing to be concerned about otherwise. I've mentioned in other comment replies that these solenoids are never _silent_ and make some sound through normal operation. It's only when you can detect the sound is no longer _normal_ that this video is about.
For this particular model GM engine, the device has no discernible sound to show when functioning correctly. So, for all practical purposes, same sound as unplugging a defective one.
@@DrShock Thank you for reply. I installed a new one yesterday, but it still makes the loud clicking sound from the unit. Is there something you might suggest or think I can also check into that may be causing it to do that. Thanks.
1:11 you can hear the sound of the faulty part (kinda clicky or rattly) 1:14 part is unplugged and you can hear a clean idle without rattle. This is also how a new non-faulty part should be, silent as far as we can tell
@@carldrew Do the unplug/replug test. If there's no change in sound, the ticking is coming from elsewhere under the hood. If there is only ticking when the solenoid is plugged in then it's either the wrong unit for the vehicle, or a dud part.
hi mate thank you very much u give me confident to do it myself. i did it today but i accidentally broke the orange or pink clip that u was find it hard to take at the begining. do u know what is the name plz?
Post a time index from the vid to be sure, but I _think_ what you are referring to is just a safety lock on the electrical harness connector. It's a small piece of plastic that helps make sure that the electrical connector does not accidentally get depressed and come loose. If so, its not a big deal. You could procure one at some point from a wreck at a you pull your own parts type salvage yard. Like an LKQ PYP site. If instead you mean the retainer for the vacuum line that connects into the solenoid, well if that broke you may have to replace that whole plastic line or the line won't stay connected.
Would be nice if we could take our broken parts back to Chevy to get the part reimbursed. I heardvthis is a recall part and covered, even outside the warranty.
I'm working on a 2002 Buick LeSabre 3.8L and the problem I'm having is with the purge solenoid. My long term fuel trim is pegged out at -25% and my short term is around -5%. The solenoid is ticking meaning it's being energized. When I disconnect it the long term fuel trim goes back to 0. With the connector unplugged I connected a test light to battery power and the other end to the negative terminal. My test light pulsates continuously. The ground is controlled by the ECU. Does that mean the ECU has a bad driver or can a faulty fuel pressure sensor cause the computer to continuously run the Evap integrity test? I haven't checked the fuel pressure sensor voltage yet but I will once I jack up the car. Please Help!
Does the noise increase when u accelerate? If i continue to ride with the bad valve what's going to happen because i have Brv ivtech and there no power drop or milega mileage
The symptom we go over in this particular video is a cosmetic acoustic problem when you can hear it inside the cabin, until you get a check engine light there's nothing to worry about or be concerned over. It does not typically get any louder on acceleration. But the noise can be annoying to some drivers, so proactive replacement can address such a concern.
I replaced mine twice still makes that noise and dtc codes p0443 comes up. I measured the voltage and it fluctuates from 12v to 7v or 3v and so on. What does this mean? Thanks
I replaced mine and it's doing the exact same thing. I found out it's not a simple on/off valve but operates on a duty cycle so it will tick like this when functioning correctly
Like i ordered a EVAP Canister Purge Solenoid but there is a round thingie to the right. I just found the purge valve without any hoses if you know what i mean. So if the purge valve is broken is the round thing also broken or what does that do?
Not quite sure what you're referring to, would you be talking about the part that has the red colored retainer for the electrical connector attached to the EVAP solenoid? Or further back?
So with the EVAP solenoid assembly removed a 3:31, the connector at the intake manifold that the assembly snaps onto is in the right hand view. That connection is part of the plastic engine intake manifold. Everything removed is all one unit, if using genuine GM parts. If yours has something missing or different about that assembly itself, it could be an aftermarket design or damaged in some way.
u save me 60 pound thank you very much but i wonder if u can help me with the name.of the clip is it ornage or red one but mine is green. do u know what is called plz?
There are at least eight different possible causes for that code on the ecotec 1.4L, but the evap solenoid is not one of them. More likely a vacuum hose leak, or an obstruction/leak in the crankcase ventilation flow.
You should expect an ACDelco OEM unit to go for many years. Remember there is supposed to be _some_ sound, it's a solenoid afterall. It's just when the sound becomes excessively noticeable with the hood closed that you can proactively address it.
@@DrShockIf it works, I don't replace it. They are loud inherent to their design. Most companies surround them with rubber along with the rubber mounting them to the metal bracket. Helps to bring the noise down. Placement of this valve also makes a difference. A lot of them are under the intake or somewhere tucked away. The Cruze is an econo box, so they cheeped out on the purge valve.
This part would be one of the _least_ likely to be involved with a misfire condition. Diagnosing a misfire can take some time as there can be many many causes for such an engine problem. Definitely not a parts cannon fired into the dark candidate, can get expensive real fast just throwing parts at it. Start with the diagnostic codes being recorded for the misfire, and run thru the troubleshooting associated with each code stored in the engine computer.
Hello sir mine does the same thing my car is throwing a p0171 you think it's because of this purge valve and can I replace all the pcv plastic hoses with rubber goses
That code is unlikely to be related to the purge solenoid, it's more likely coming from the intake manifold pcv bypass valve or a vacuum line in that component area. More diagnosis would be required to confirm, too many possibilities for a comment forum diag. You could check for th pcv bypass with this check though - ua-cam.com/users/shortsqGBt5skZWLI
nice video mate. I am not mechanic but would i be able to replace it my self at home because my mechanic want to charge me 60 pound. by looking at ur video i dont think is 60 pound labour. i have vauxhall zafira tourer turbo engine. would i be able to change it myself?
This one is definitely a DIY project with no special tools required. Just be sure to put the $ saved into the OEM part and not the inferior imported aftermarket versions.
i always buy from main dealer. would i need to clear the code after fitting? PO171 system too lean bank 1. is this the cause for Evaporation purge faulty?
That particular code, for this specific GM engine, is rarely associated with this EVAP solenoid. That code has a number of possible causes ranging from PCV oxygen sensor and would need specific diagnosis to determine which. Code P0496 is more commonly associated with the repair this video is going over.
so i have a new 2023 kona nline and had to get this replaced the other day, problem was gone for 1 day and back to the same issue. is it possoble for a new purge valve to fail that quick? im going to bring it back in anyways just annoying listening to that noise. they told me its only affecting my gas consumption
Aftermarket parts tend to have this problem the most, vs using a genuine GM ACDelco part. In the beginning, it's just cosmetic - an annoying noise. But in the long run, the noisy part will fail and trigger a check engine light on the dash.
Eventually an actual failing/failed EVAP solenoid will generate a DTC on GM vehicles. Prior to that point though it's a only cosmetic / nuisance type of issue (the noise being loud enough to hear in the cabin).
Mine was extremely loud, replaced it with a new AC Delco as shown, this one is evan louder. Could there be a vacuum leak? I don't detect one. Maybe the new one is defective?
@@DrShock yes, I pulled the purge valve off and all ticking stopped. Happy to report that after driving a few days now, no more loud ticking, glad I changed it. Thank you for your helpful info.
This particular problem is totally cosmetic noise, you could let it go until the part ultimately fails where it will then cause the check engine light to come on. Then you can replace it. Most folks don't like the cosmetic noise though, and replace it proactively just to address that.
At the stage I've shown the issue in this video, it's purely cosmetic acoustically. Eventually, the solenoid will fail completely and the check engine light will come on in the dash area. You could certainly wait on this sort of repair if it's only in the early cosmetic stages.
The initial GM new vehicle bumper to bumper warranty, yeah. Past that unlikely, the solenoid is usually considered a wear part like a filter, gasket or seal.
@@MatallicA35dozer It won't _harm_ anything per say. You'll eventually get a check engine light and in some states you can't pass inspection with that condition. And depending on how the unit eventually fails, it can fail in a state making for hard starting conditions. But it won't damage anything, you just need to get it fixed when the time comes. Most folks don't even notice the sound, and only realize there's a problem when the check engine light pops and they get the code.
First of all, anyone know what causes them to tick? Just changed mine today. Old one ticked until I unplugged it. Put a new one on made by Dorman same as old one. Plugged it in and same tick. Just learned if your going to replace this part buy an AC Delco one. Going to try that next and hopefully have better luck but that's what I get when trying to save a buck!
Would the sound change at idle ? I got a 2011 nissan versa I think bad lifters but now that I see this . I broke the stem to the purge solenoid so I jb welded it back in place . I wonder if it's that and not the lifters .
The overall sound would yes. But different engines can have different sounds for both normal and abnormal, especially across manufacturers. So I wouldn't compare a GM engine to a Nissan engine alone, for this sort of problem. The GM Ecotec 1.4L, for example, has a perfectly normal ticking to it. That's kinda unusual to begin with engine sounds wise. It's only when you have this added noise with the purge solenoid failing that we cover in this vid, that you get an additional clue about something truly amiss. Most folks would never notice it, until the check engine light came on further down the calendar.
@@josephg8818 In my experience, these kinda tick away at a specific rate. Best test is the unplug/plug at idle like I showed. If they are failing, they fail at idle so that test gets rid of alot of other engine noise from higher rpms that could make it harder to hear it.
I just bought a 2020 sonic about 3 weeks and it has this noise already. Can someone tell me if this is normal and if not, should i give back and claim my money back? THANK YOU
Like with some of the earlier comments, those new to the Sonic and GM's Ecotec 1.4L turbo may not be used to the ticking sound it makes _normally_ by design. You have to go thru the diagnosis I do in the video to see if what you have is an _additional_ ticking noise caused by this solenoid on its way out. A failing solenoid would not be covered by warranty usually anyway, as this is a wear item like a brake pad. They are relatively inexpensive, and easy to replace yourself if proven to have been the source. Only use genuine GM/ACDelco though (part info in the description), the aftermarket import parts will fail very quickly.
I also have a 2020 Sonic. It is not a super quiet engine. These engines are not like the older, quieter V-8s we used to have. They sometimes run and sound like lawn mowers. But did you get rid of that ticking sound?
The before/after test I show is to help determine if _this_ is what you're hearing. The part is not silent, even when operating correctly. But you shouldn't be able to hear the genuine GM/ACdelco solenoid with the hood closed when operating normally. There's a basket of other things that can cause a ticking (besides the fact this particular GM engine has a _normal_ ticking to it to begin with). Exhaust manifold leaks or lifters are other possible _tickers_ that can be heard over the engine noise.
This is just a noise problem, there is no check engine light. Though it can trigger one if you let the problem go long enough for the part to fail. If you have a check engine light, you may have other issues and should get those codes diagnosed separately.
Can this cause a P2090 code to pop up? I am having the same sound not constantly but sometimes and I cannot find the reason for the P2090 code. So I’m wondering if these are connected. Please help if you know I don’t know anything about cars but I’ve had many repairs done trying to fix this code.
The typical code for this problem, when you let it go until the part finally fails outright, is P0496. I'm not familiar with it causing other codes, but it may be possible.
This is a solenoid related to the emissions system of the engine, to meet US EPA regulations on pollution. It is a system required to be maintained in working order for all states that perform motor vehicle inspections.
They are not totally _silent_ when operating, but should not be loud enough for you to notice with the hood closed. At least the genuine GM / ACDelco ones are like that. Aftermarket ones will always be of a lower quality construction (that's why they are cheaper), so _may_ be noisier even when operating normally.
When you did the unplug/plug electrical test I showed, before replacing the part, did the sound change? That's an important diagnostic confirmation step, because there are other things that can sound similar. So you have to confirm the purge solenoid is the source of the sound, or at least one of the sounds, before you change the part. Like I mentioned in this video, we had actually had two failures to remedy before we got rid of all the ticking. This is one of them though.
Anyway to fix the part? I'm from Egypt and local suppliers sell it for about a 100$. And if I try to import it, it's gonna take a month and cost about 70$ after import fees and taxes.
Thank you man. My daughter came home from work at 2am and was freaking out. Hard not to be pumped when you think a car is DOA and it turns out to be an easy fix.
@@lancepogodzinski8768 my Fiancé's car has been making this noise and at first I thought it was the Valves so I popped off the Valve Cover and the Valves and Camshaft looked great and were getting oil so I was having a Hard time figuring it out because it sounds like it's coming from the Valves
You know what? The best part about this video is you using the light and mirror to show the clip and giving more information on how to do it. That part is so far back in the engine bay that I was pretty much guessing what to do to get it disconnected. In fact the first two times I tried I couldn’t get it off at all.
Thank you so much. This was exactly what my daughters car was doing and it was driving me nuts. Thanks for the help and avoiding the mechanic.
Just some advice folks, don't just load up the parts cannon on this type of issue. You have to do diag, and perform the wiring harness test I go over in the video. The GM Ecotec 1.4L has a *normal* ticking sound simply due to its fuel injector design. What you're looking for is an _additional_ abnormal sound, in this videos case, specifically from a failing purge solenoid assembly. If you do not get the results shown in the video, your sound source is elsewhere.
These solenoids are not whisper quiet to begin with, but they are also not supposed to be audible from a distance while the engine is idling either. That's what this repair vid is about addressing.
I did the test like you and the noise stopped so I put a new part in and it makes the same noise. It is loud and like I said stopped when I disconnected the power. So why would it still make this noise?
Tough to say, as you can read thru the comments for the vast majority of us this is what to do to repair this noise issue. If you can hear the noise inside the car with the doors closed and the windows up, only then is this a problem. It's _normal_ for this GM engine to make a ticking noise you can hear with the hood up. What you're listening for is not no noise, but _less_ noise. I can suggest two considerations if you still have the _hear it inside the car_ problem:
Did you use a genuine GM ACDelco part? Aftermarket ones are typically of inferior quality and construction.
Is there a check engine light, or a stored history diagnostic trouble code (DTC) in the computers memory? The noise may be related to another component in the same EVAP system.
Awesome video man! And thank you for all the helpful replys below. True competence is often best displayed by effective communication. You sure nailed that one.
One symptom of a failed purge solenoid, from my own experience, is hard starting immediately after refueling
No. That is the effect of over pressurization. That is not the cause. You have a bad timing chain tensioner. The timeing is off just so slightly that it causes back pressure. It will just break again until you tear apart the front of the engine and replace the time chain tensioner. 1:37
@@robertolson7304 hi im having this problem with my ford fiesta 2012 it stalls when you push the gas after a stop. And it also has a very very bad starting after every full up
@@robertolson7304 what he described is absolutely a symptom of a fault purge solenoid. What you’re suggesting is analogous to getting brain surgery for a headache. Start simple
Just saved me about $250.00 at the local garage! Thanks.
Thanks Doc.i have the same issue and went ahead and unplugged it and it made no change.it does get alot quieter when warmed up.just got this 2015 cruze with the 1.4 turbo.i remember my 2014 silverado was also noisy as heck and i listened 2 a few new trucks and had the same noise.they said it was the high pressure fuel system as well.awesome video!
It is exactly what is happening in my car, i will fix it. Thank you mate!!
Thank you. My thinking is that this is what UA-cam was created to do. Helpful money saving advice. Mind you on my 2018 they seem to have changed the damn clip so it's different now.
Thank you so much for this video, this is the exact problem i have on my 98 volvo v70r!
Thank you for this video! i thought my ticking noise was going to be a much bigger problem. thank you again
Thank u i have 2015 chevy cruze everytime i ask the mechanic he say that is normal i knew it wasnt normal
I have a 2018 Buick Encore. I honestly thought it's supposed to sound like that. Guess I'll change mine out then. Glad I happened upon this video.
Just remember these solenoids are not _quiet_ at all. As I mentioned in the video, the sound is a problem only when it gets loud enough to hear in the cabin or over the engine noise with the hood closed.
@@DrShock yeah it's pretty loud. It's clearly heard.
Just wanted to Thank you for your Awesome advice I had the same problem with a louder knocking and it worked. Change the part and wow so quiet. 10 in
Thank you so much it's been driving me nuts
Thanks I will change that soon. This vid helped out it does stop ticking when I unplug the sensor. I just changing the thermostat housing kit aswell.
Thanks for the video. I just ordered one. I was thinking it's the engine, but when I disconnect the wire, the sound goes away.
Just remember, as I had mentioned, it is perfectly normal with these GM Ecotec engines that there will be _some_ sound. It's a solenoid after all. But you should not hear it from inside the cabin, or with the hood closed. That's when it has worn enough to consider this repair.
Thank you yet again i didnt know for sure that it needed to be replaced but you confirmed that it does and itd easy enough
Thanks god! So anoying sound... it's driving me crazy. In the morning sounds louder...
Same with my trax.. when the part arrives I will replace it soon..
Thank you very much !
I'm having this issue on my Opel Corsa 1.4 Turbo and it has 65 000 km on it.
Thanks a lot fixed the issue !
I understand that the purge valve is responsible for the ticking, but I am wondering what moving parts are inside the purge valve that are actually moving back and forth, causing the ticking....
That would be an electricial solenoid, it moves a plunger back and forth to open or close the pathway of the fuel vapors inside the tubing
Thanks it was super easy to fix
I replaced mine and it still ticks lol any other ideas??
Mine in particular is actually something else is a louder tick and especially when u rev so come to find out it’s a exhaust leak in front engine bay gonna get it back today from shop and see for sure
I replaced mine with aftermarket light went off but still have ticking sound I do smell gas sometimes
Really good video !! Mine is doing the same rn bro. How bad is this to Continue to drive it ?what does this do to the vehicle ?
Totally a cosmetic issue (acoustic) in the beginning. You do not have to be concerned with functionality until the vehicle shows the check engine light on the dash.
Thanks I plan on switching it out Ty
I was wondering what that ticking noise was. I own a 2014 Trax.
Had the EXACT same problem with my Opel Adam S they use the same engines, 1.4T, replaced it under warranty back then. Now after 3 years it came back.
The noise also comes after the car is idle a little and got warm already, it wont make any noise when cold
My car never made this noise, and I replaced the evap purge valve, and it started ticking. I'm just gonna live with it for now that I know it's not the timing chain making that noise.
If I remove the dipstick or the oil cap while the engine is on, it shakes too much and pulls in a lot of air. I complained to the seller and he said it was normal. He said that's how that type of engine is.😢
It is _normal_ for this particular GM engine in turbocharged form to have _some_ vacuum (i.e., suction) from either the dipstick, or oil cap, even at idle. It may even make a noticeable noise of the air rushing in when doing opening either. However, you shouldn't be checking the oil level, or adding oil, on this type of engine while it is running though. It cannot be done reliably on this model, and its very likely to end up with oil splash all over. This is because the turbocharger is involved with crankcase ventilation on this model engine.
Opening up either can also cause a change in idle rpm, and may even generate a DTC, again perfectly normal for this particular GM engine because opening either of those introduces a vacuum leak. _Excessive vacuum_ however can indicate a problem with either the integral vent on the camshaft cover, or bypass valve in the intake manifold. But you want to assess the health of this particular model engine _without_ opening either the dipstick or cap. Other engines will be different in behavior, this video is about a particular one with its own unique quirks.
I noticed a loud ticking noise coming and going while engine in park in the top manifold area..
I just bought a 2016 chevy sonic and it has this noise thanks
Thank you 😊
why you not turn on engine after replacing it to hear if ticking sound has gone or not
Of course this was done, but not filmed because I already showed the test at the beginning. Trust issues? ;-)
@@DrShock I asked you to start the engine because it doesn't always work. In my case I changed it to a new one and the ticking sound continued. Then I took the car to the dealership and he cleaned the tubes connected to the evaporator and reprogrammed it according to what he said and the sound disappeared. Now it works fine.
I always thought that was just my fuel injectors being loud 😭
My Chevy Trax has been ticking since brand new even after the new purge valve got put on
The Ecotec 1.4L turbo is a ticker by nature, but when you have one of these purge solenoids go you will *definitely* notice it as louder than the baseline ticking. ;-)
I replaced mine but as soon as a couple minutes with the car on it starts making a loud ticking noise.. before replacing i did have purge valve code and after fueling with gas the car would hesitate before installing a new purge valve
Hi. This might be unrelated but really want to figure this out if possible. I have a 2012 Chevy sonic that when it rains, the ac stops cooling and the temperature in the radio shows as -40 degrees. As long as it is not raining it works really well. I assume that the undercarriage getting wet had something to do with the failure but might be wrong. TIA
The temperature displayed on the radio is the outside ambient air temperature. It is provided by a sensor mounted in the front bumper fascia. On the RH (pass) side I believe for the Sonic. You might check the condition of the wiring harness and sensor itself for damage allowing for water intrusion when it rains.
Mine has a clicking noise but it doesn't stop when I unplug it
It's annoying sounds like a engine knock lol thought the old lady blew up the car then I found it was coming from the purge valve
Would the ticking happen with acceleration as well cause I have a 2015 Chevy cruz that when idling and accelerating I hear a ticking noise.
Yes
The first time ever I've seen an American work on, to them, small European engines.
Same noise coming from my 2013 Cruze ltz. Just changed the purge valve and still getting the same sound. Still have no idea why
Same I just replaced the part with a brand new part and still have the clicking. So I am ordering the delco brand and retrying.
This particular GM engine has a _normal_ ticking to it. When the purge solenoid ages it adds to the melody. The unplug/plug test I showed in the video is how you determine if you have an _abnormal_ ticking noise issue relating to the purge solenoid.
The solenoid obviously makes _some_ sound when it's functioning, but as it ages the sound becomes much louder, pending a failure. If during the unplug test you are still hearing what you're commenting on, it's not related to the purge solenoid. It could be _normal_ or something else, like an exhaust manifold leak (that also makes a _ticca ticca ticca_ sound. Or an internal engine component from low oil, wear etc. Many things.
Check the hose that connects from the canister valve to the intake manifold. Also called the purge line. Sometimes there will be a ball check piece inside the hose itself that could be making the noise. If so, replace the hose, you should be able to feel it as well.
Here is how I stopped mine from ticking: I originally bought an off-brand purge valve and I put it on. It caused ticking still and the check engine light even went on. I researched around and I was reading an Amazon review on the AC Delco brand part. Someone had the same issue. All they said was they returned the off-brand part and bought the AC Delco Brand Part and it stopped the ticking. I installed the AC Delco Part just yesterday and my ticking noise is gone for now.
I was looking for a comment like this all over so hopefully someone can find this information instead of searching all over.
@@FireDredFTW Thanks
Can this cause a startup problem due to excessive negative tank pressure ? I'm definetly getting the noise and the vehicle acted like it was starving for gas at startup(it would run for a few seconds and then die). Thanks for the video.
Usually what happens here is, if you ignore the noise and do not replace it proactively, the solenoid eventually fails enough where you get a check engine lamp on the dash lit with a code you can pull with a scan tool. This part completely failing can cause the start symptoms you describe, but you may have multiple failures going on. I'd start with pulling the codes with a scan tool (not all of them will trigger the check engine lamp), and work that list first.
I have the same issue
That's what mine did wouldn't start when I got gas
@@DrShock could it cause a Lean bank code when it starts going bad?
I had an EVAP code and I replaced my evap solenoid. The brand new one that I just put on is making a ticking I've never heard before. Is there something wrong with the part?
Sounds like a non-GM aftermarket part? If so some cheaper aftermarket brands are just noisy if you read thru earlier comments here. That's not typically indicative of a problem per say.
Thanks for the video..its awesome !!
Btw, what will happen if we not replace the Canister?? It just make an anoying sound or it can make the engine damage ??
Thanks. No, this noise problem causes no damage if ignored. Eventually the solenoid will fail to operate properly and cause a check engine light in the instrument cluster to come on. The solenoid is part of the emissions system, to reduce pollution of the air we all breath. Once the check engine light is on, it is a repair that you will have to do at that point to pass state inspection, if your state checks the vehicle for emissions compliance.
@@DrShock Beside reduce the pollution, that part can affect the gasoline consumtion?? Maybe, it can be more economic..
Nah, not on this GM engine. Only emissions. Of course if the vacuum hoses going into and out of this part are damaged/open, that could lead to driveability issues but that's unrelated to the EVAP solenoid function itself.
I repeated everything as you did but the sound remained the same
What happens at such a time?
Hi friend. I have a question. I have a 2012 Cruze. I just bought one and when I remove the oil cap it sucks in a lot of air and shakes too much to the point of almost shutting off. HELP
Answered earlier
Why did u not Start it to show the clicking gone ?
Just ran out of time with the cars owner needing it back, as mentioned at 4:55. It's a pretty cut and dry diagnosis here as shown with the harness disconnect/reconnect test.
Just remember that there's always ticking with an Ecotec 1.4L. And there is some sound that _normally_ comes from an operating purge solenoid. It's just a question of _abnormal_ ticking that you might notice that was *not* there before. There are several sources for such new sounds, this is only _one_ of the possibilities.
Can anything bad happen if we just ignore it and keep driving for let's say, another 50k kilometres after this symptomps have shown up?
At this stage, where you have no trouble codes posted, it's just a cosmetic type of problem and nothing to be concerned about otherwise. I've mentioned in other comment replies that these solenoids are never _silent_ and make some sound through normal operation. It's only when you can detect the sound is no longer _normal_ that this video is about.
@@DrShock thank youu! I thought this would affect my fuel consumption or performance, but maybe I should clean my throttle body/injectors 😁🙏🏻
Did I miss something? Did you show us the sound after you fixed it? That would have been helpful to compare.
For this particular model GM engine, the device has no discernible sound to show when functioning correctly. So, for all practical purposes, same sound as unplugging a defective one.
@@DrShock Thank you for reply. I installed a new one yesterday, but it still makes the loud clicking sound from the unit. Is there something you might suggest or think I can also check into that may be causing it to do that. Thanks.
1:11 you can hear the sound of the faulty part (kinda clicky or rattly)
1:14 part is unplugged and you can hear a clean idle without rattle. This is also how a new non-faulty part should be, silent as far as we can tell
@@carldrew Do the unplug/replug test. If there's no change in sound, the ticking is coming from elsewhere under the hood. If there is only ticking when the solenoid is plugged in then it's either the wrong unit for the vehicle, or a dud part.
Try checking spark plugs
hi mate thank you very much u give me confident to do it myself. i did it today but i accidentally broke the orange or pink clip that u was find it hard to take at the begining. do u know what is the name plz?
Post a time index from the vid to be sure, but I _think_ what you are referring to is just a safety lock on the electrical harness connector. It's a small piece of plastic that helps make sure that the electrical connector does not accidentally get depressed and come loose. If so, its not a big deal. You could procure one at some point from a wreck at a you pull your own parts type salvage yard. Like an LKQ PYP site.
If instead you mean the retainer for the vacuum line that connects into the solenoid, well if that broke you may have to replace that whole plastic line or the line won't stay connected.
Would be nice if we could take our broken parts back to Chevy to get the part reimbursed. I heardvthis is a recall part and covered, even outside the warranty.
Only certain years/VINs got something warranty wise - you could check if yours was included with the info here ua-cam.com/video/UNqQ_egsbas/v-deo.html
I'm working on a 2002 Buick LeSabre 3.8L and the problem I'm having is with the purge solenoid. My long term fuel trim is pegged out at -25% and my short term is around -5%. The solenoid is ticking meaning it's being energized. When I disconnect it the long term fuel trim goes back to 0. With the connector unplugged I connected a test light to battery power and the other end to the negative terminal. My test light pulsates continuously. The ground is controlled by the ECU. Does that mean the ECU has a bad driver or can a faulty fuel pressure sensor cause the computer to continuously run the Evap integrity test? I haven't checked the fuel pressure sensor voltage yet but I will once I jack up the car. Please Help!
Does the noise increase when u accelerate? If i continue to ride with the bad valve what's going to happen because i have Brv ivtech and there no power drop or milega mileage
The symptom we go over in this particular video is a cosmetic acoustic problem when you can hear it inside the cabin, until you get a check engine light there's nothing to worry about or be concerned over. It does not typically get any louder on acceleration. But the noise can be annoying to some drivers, so proactive replacement can address such a concern.
I replaced mine twice still makes that noise and dtc codes p0443 comes up. I measured the voltage and it fluctuates from 12v to 7v or 3v and so on. What does this mean? Thanks
Dont take your car to the dealer 520 bucke .
I replaced mine and it's doing the exact same thing. I found out it's not a simple on/off valve but operates on a duty cycle so it will tick like this when functioning correctly
Like i ordered a EVAP Canister Purge Solenoid but there is a round thingie to the right. I just found the purge valve without any hoses if you know what i mean. So if the purge valve is broken is the round thing also broken or what does that do?
Not quite sure what you're referring to, would you be talking about the part that has the red colored retainer for the electrical connector attached to the EVAP solenoid? Or further back?
If you go to 2:37 and look right to your fingers. Theres the thing around the hoses.
Between the solenoid and the adapter
So with the EVAP solenoid assembly removed a 3:31, the connector at the intake manifold that the assembly snaps onto is in the right hand view. That connection is part of the plastic engine intake manifold. Everything removed is all one unit, if using genuine GM parts. If yours has something missing or different about that assembly itself, it could be an aftermarket design or damaged in some way.
u save me 60 pound thank you very much but i wonder if u can help me with the name.of the clip is it ornage or red one but mine is green. do u know what is called plz?
I just got that noise and code p0171 could that be the problem and have to change that part ?? Help here
There are at least eight different possible causes for that code on the ecotec 1.4L, but the evap solenoid is not one of them. More likely a vacuum hose leak, or an obstruction/leak in the crankcase ventilation flow.
How long before the replacement did the same thing?
You should expect an ACDelco OEM unit to go for many years. Remember there is supposed to be _some_ sound, it's a solenoid afterall. It's just when the sound becomes excessively noticeable with the hood closed that you can proactively address it.
@@DrShockIf it works, I don't replace it. They are loud inherent to their design. Most companies surround them with rubber along with the rubber mounting them to the metal bracket. Helps to bring the noise down. Placement of this valve also makes a difference. A lot of them are under the intake or somewhere tucked away.
The Cruze is an econo box, so they cheeped out on the purge valve.
Does this cause a MIsfire this part is ticking for me and I have a misfire
This part would be one of the _least_ likely to be involved with a misfire condition. Diagnosing a misfire can take some time as there can be many many causes for such an engine problem. Definitely not a parts cannon fired into the dark candidate, can get expensive real fast just throwing parts at it. Start with the diagnostic codes being recorded for the misfire, and run thru the troubleshooting associated with each code stored in the engine computer.
Will this give me code p0420 mine is clicking like that slightly but i have the code, car only has 22k on it 🤦
When these fail, it's usually a P0496. But you could have more than one issue going on.
Hello sir mine does the same thing my car is throwing a p0171 you think it's because of this purge valve and can I replace all the pcv plastic hoses with rubber goses
That code is unlikely to be related to the purge solenoid, it's more likely coming from the intake manifold pcv bypass valve or a vacuum line in that component area. More diagnosis would be required to confirm, too many possibilities for a comment forum diag. You could check for th pcv bypass with this check though - ua-cam.com/users/shortsqGBt5skZWLI
I replaced mine noise came back occasionally a few days after
I replaced mine and it’s still clicking loud
Did you use a genuine GM ACDelco part? Did you perform the test shown in the vid?
nice video mate. I am not mechanic but would i be able to replace it my self at home because my mechanic want to charge me 60 pound. by looking at ur video i dont think is 60 pound labour. i have vauxhall zafira tourer turbo engine. would i be able to change it myself?
This one is definitely a DIY project with no special tools required. Just be sure to put the $ saved into the OEM part and not the inferior imported aftermarket versions.
i always buy from main dealer. would i need to clear the code after fitting? PO171 system too lean bank 1. is this the cause for Evaporation purge faulty?
That particular code, for this specific GM engine, is rarely associated with this EVAP solenoid. That code has a number of possible causes ranging from PCV oxygen sensor and would need specific diagnosis to determine which. Code P0496 is more commonly associated with the repair this video is going over.
thanks
my mechanic said i need to change Evaporation purge. ur advice should i go ahead to replace it or not. the part alone cost around 100 pound.
so i have a new 2023 kona nline and had to get this replaced the other day, problem was gone for 1 day and back to the same issue. is it possoble for a new purge valve to fail that quick? im going to bring it back in anyways just annoying listening to that noise. they told me its only affecting my gas consumption
Aftermarket parts tend to have this problem the most, vs using a genuine GM ACDelco part. In the beginning, it's just cosmetic - an annoying noise. But in the long run, the noisy part will fail and trigger a check engine light on the dash.
I just change the old purged valve and it did make that ticking noise and suddenly when I put the new one in it started to tick why is that
Genuine ACDelco part?
does it set code when it does that?
Eventually an actual failing/failed EVAP solenoid will generate a DTC on GM vehicles. Prior to that point though it's a only cosmetic / nuisance type of issue (the noise being loud enough to hear in the cabin).
Mine was extremely loud, replaced it with a new AC Delco as shown, this one is evan louder. Could there be a vacuum leak? I don't detect one. Maybe the new one is defective?
Are you sure the sound is coming from the EVAP purge solenoid - there is a test early in the video to determine.
@@DrShock yes, I pulled the purge valve off and all ticking stopped. Happy to report that after driving a few days now, no more loud ticking, glad I changed it. Thank you for your helpful info.
How much for that part? My Trax with 1.4 is making that noise.
There are links in the video description where you can buy.
What is the name of that part
There’s a link in the description. EVAP solenoid.
About how long will I be able to drive my car with it sounding like this?
This particular problem is totally cosmetic noise, you could let it go until the part ultimately fails where it will then cause the check engine light to come on. Then you can replace it. Most folks don't like the cosmetic noise though, and replace it proactively just to address that.
#1: check your oil levels.
I should’ve done this first.
Yep, all kinds of causes for sounds. That's why I show the unplug test right up front. If the sound doesn't change, you have to keep looking.
Much love and respect from Sudan, thanks a lot
I'm having same problem is it bad if i don't replace it?
At the stage I've shown the issue in this video, it's purely cosmetic acoustically. Eventually, the solenoid will fail completely and the check engine light will come on in the dash area. You could certainly wait on this sort of repair if it's only in the early cosmetic stages.
@DrShock i detach solenoid like you did but the noise still it's not too loud you can't hear it from inside or outside and no light on dash yet
If you hear the noise with the solenoid disconnected, that's not where the noise is coming from. ;-)
Is it safe to assume this would be covered under the drivetrain warranty?
The initial GM new vehicle bumper to bumper warranty, yeah. Past that unlikely, the solenoid is usually considered a wear part like a filter, gasket or seal.
@@DrShock if I just let it go, will it harm something? I only ask cuz I'm not very Teck. And I have warranty.
@@MatallicA35dozer It won't _harm_ anything per say. You'll eventually get a check engine light and in some states you can't pass inspection with that condition. And depending on how the unit eventually fails, it can fail in a state making for hard starting conditions. But it won't damage anything, you just need to get it fixed when the time comes. Most folks don't even notice the sound, and only realize there's a problem when the check engine light pops and they get the code.
First of all, anyone know what causes them to tick? Just changed mine today. Old one ticked until I unplugged it. Put a new one on made by Dorman same as old one. Plugged it in and same tick. Just learned if your going to replace this part buy an AC Delco one. Going to try that next and hopefully have better luck but that's what I get when trying to save a buck!
I replaced it and it's still making the noise what else could be.😢
You did the electrical test before replacing it as shown in the vid to confirm the sound source?
Would the sound change at idle ? I got a 2011 nissan versa I think bad lifters but now that I see this . I broke the stem to the purge solenoid so I jb welded it back in place . I wonder if it's that and not the lifters .
The overall sound would yes. But different engines can have different sounds for both normal and abnormal, especially across manufacturers. So I wouldn't compare a GM engine to a Nissan engine alone, for this sort of problem.
The GM Ecotec 1.4L, for example, has a perfectly normal ticking to it. That's kinda unusual to begin with engine sounds wise. It's only when you have this added noise with the purge solenoid failing that we cover in this vid, that you get an additional clue about something truly amiss. Most folks would never notice it, until the check engine light came on further down the calendar.
@@DrShock But say it does make that sound and that is the issue when you Rev the engine will the sound get louder
@@josephg8818 In my experience, these kinda tick away at a specific rate. Best test is the unplug/plug at idle like I showed. If they are failing, they fail at idle so that test gets rid of alot of other engine noise from higher rpms that could make it harder to hear it.
I just bought a 2020 sonic about 3 weeks and it has this noise already. Can someone tell me if this is normal and if not, should i give back and claim my money back? THANK YOU
It has 43k miles
Like with some of the earlier comments, those new to the Sonic and GM's Ecotec 1.4L turbo may not be used to the ticking sound it makes _normally_ by design. You have to go thru the diagnosis I do in the video to see if what you have is an _additional_ ticking noise caused by this solenoid on its way out.
A failing solenoid would not be covered by warranty usually anyway, as this is a wear item like a brake pad. They are relatively inexpensive, and easy to replace yourself if proven to have been the source. Only use genuine GM/ACDelco though (part info in the description), the aftermarket import parts will fail very quickly.
I also have a 2020 Sonic. It is not a super quiet engine. These engines are not like the older, quieter V-8s we used to have. They sometimes run and sound like lawn mowers. But did you get rid of that ticking sound?
Can this cause check engine light to come on?
When the solenoid fully fails, yes it will usually trigger a trouble code. But not in the early stages like we see in this video.
Changed this part because I have a 14 cruze with exact noise. Noise still continues... what can also be the problem ? Or what should I be looking for?
The before/after test I show is to help determine if _this_ is what you're hearing. The part is not silent, even when operating correctly. But you shouldn't be able to hear the genuine GM/ACdelco solenoid with the hood closed when operating normally.
There's a basket of other things that can cause a ticking (besides the fact this particular GM engine has a _normal_ ticking to it to begin with). Exhaust manifold leaks or lifters are other possible _tickers_ that can be heard over the engine noise.
Mine still clicks loudly
I have the same problem so u think is from that? Did u it show Engin light on ? My remote starter won’t let me start too ? Can u plzz help me ?
And what the cause when your car shakes when you slow down? I have the same car with yours
This is just a noise problem, there is no check engine light. Though it can trigger one if you let the problem go long enough for the part to fail. If you have a check engine light, you may have other issues and should get those codes diagnosed separately.
Can this cause a P2090 code to pop up? I am having the same sound not constantly but sometimes and I cannot find the reason for the P2090 code. So I’m wondering if these are connected. Please help if you know I don’t know anything about cars but I’ve had many repairs done trying to fix this code.
The typical code for this problem, when you let it go until the part finally fails outright, is P0496. I'm not familiar with it causing other codes, but it may be possible.
Question: What is the function of this part?
This is a solenoid related to the emissions system of the engine, to meet US EPA regulations on pollution. It is a system required to be maintained in working order for all states that perform motor vehicle inspections.
@@DrShock thank you.
Can this cause a rough idle?
Possibly, though there can be a multitude of causes for that symptom. Start with checking for vacuum leaks across all the lines.
Mine ticks some times then it stops.. even after I replaced the valve
They are not totally _silent_ when operating, but should not be loud enough for you to notice with the hood closed. At least the genuine GM / ACDelco ones are like that. Aftermarket ones will always be of a lower quality construction (that's why they are cheaper), so _may_ be noisier even when operating normally.
I replaced the purge Canister but it still making the noise. What do I do?
When you did the unplug/plug electrical test I showed, before replacing the part, did the sound change? That's an important diagnostic confirmation step, because there are other things that can sound similar. So you have to confirm the purge solenoid is the source of the sound, or at least one of the sounds, before you change the part. Like I mentioned in this video, we had actually had two failures to remedy before we got rid of all the ticking. This is one of them though.
@@DrShock I did that and the noise stopped, I think that I maybe got a faulty part.
Yeah, that's what I would suspect if the unplug/plug test confirmed this was the point of noise.
I just replaced mine with a brand new one on my 2012 Ford Fusion SE 3.0 V6, and it still makes a clicking noise.
Got a system too lean code and I got this exact issue. Does that make sense?
It’s normal for those engines nothing wrong with them. I see videos from when these engines are new never been on the road yet making that noise
Anyway to fix the part? I'm from Egypt and local suppliers sell it for about a 100$. And if I try to import it, it's gonna take a month and cost about 70$ after import fees and taxes.
It wouldn't tick when first started (cold)?
2013 sonic ltz1.4 dose the watergate solenoid have a fuse location? Tks