The Livewire One DESTROYS the Zero SR/S
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
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Harley Davidson loaned you a bike just to literally fuck with ZERO. DAMN! I might need to go visit a Harley dealer soon just to see what's up.
You stated that the Zero charges in 4.5 hours off a wall socket, while the LiveWire needs 11 hours. This is not accurate. The Zero needs a comparable amount of time off a wall socket. The 4.5 hours you state is most likely for Level 2 home charging (220v 16a). It can charge even faster at home with the Level 2 220v 32a charger option (half the time).
You then stated that with Level 2 the LiveWire charges 0-100% in an hour. The LiveWire does not support Level 2 charging; so it would take the same amount of time on a 220v Level 2 charger as it does on a 110v wall socket. To charge a LiveWire in one hour you need a CCS DC Fast Charger (Level 3) which is not a typical option you would find in a home.
This is like... exciting. It's like the 80s again, when stuff got better literally every year, and every bike was noticeably different to every other bike.
As someone who has actually ridden both of them, they’re both a lot of fun to ride. The Livewire has a “quality heft” to it, the Zero doesn’t, but its not like it feels cheap, it feels fine, the livewire just feels more Mercedes like. Livewire is more of a sport bike feel vs the Zero which is more like a naked bike. Personally I’d love a Livewire.
Zero seems like an electric ninja 650 is that fair ?
@@chrishart8548 Not even as sporty as a Ninja 650… it’s a really plush ride (and superb seat) and softish damping and way more upright seating position than you’d think the fairing gives the wrong impression.
@@piersdenney I noticed the normal handle bars. I think the ninja 650 should have those sort of bars not clip ons. Didn't the er6-F have normal handle bars? It was heavy though 221kg or something.
Great video, thanks for putting this together. Loved the detailed comparison done. Minor note, the LiveWire has no level 2 charge rather a level 3 DC fast charging, which the Zero doesn't offer.
I love my 21 Zero SR. Only 430lbs, 200 mile range going 35-40 and 3.3 seconds to 60mph. No cipher store b.s. and it only costed 15k out the door.
Does lack of L2 charging capability bother you at all?
@@David_Day naw, I use my rebel 1100 for highway so for everything else i get like 200 mile range which is more than enough for daily riding. I'm sore by 40% charge. I just charge it overnight.
@@ascendedmaster1126 my bad, I meant to say level 3 charging. Well, in that case, you wouldn’t need to worry about fast charging then. I do agree that low range EVs make great commuters.
Bought a Zero FXS for a local commuter bike used. It’s light, quick and perfect for the way I’m using it. However, I would not get any of their new bikes where you need to pay to unlock features. Will be looking at Energica or some of the newer brands coming out for longer range and higher end bikes.
What model year did they start the store?
If you test them for range, I recommend you set them to no regen (more efficient to coast at times than to regen and have to recover the speed) and use eco/rain/related mode. Still plenty of power, but it limits the fat-hands on the throttle.
Never thought I'd be yearning for dirt bike content.
Wonder why yammies never recorded his motocross stuff? I'm not as much into regular off-roading but motocross is sick.
I'd love to see you get an energica ego or ribelle on the channel to compare to some of these other ev motorcycles.
Yep! Energica is the other big contender in the EV motorcycle space. I'm sure it would wipe both of these with the new EMCE motor.
For that matter a sondors metacycle.
Honest purpose built commuter for the win.
@@mrspeigle1 LOL, that's an electric bicycle without pedals. It doesn't even compete with the lowest model Zero. It is more in line with a SurRon
You could even use the EsseEsse9 RS and still beat both of those and it's not even their flagship. We have one at our dealership and I borrow it on weekends all the time and it's stupid fast.
Whew toaster isnt here yet
5:40 The Zero SR/S does have a custom ride mode in the mobile app. I know you hate Zero but let's be fair here.
One word: energica
And further: a lot of people own more then one bike, so an electric bike for city or daily commite, while having a fun longrange bike for weekend fun and travel make s perfect sense.
I seriously think of the energica experience to suplement my s1000xr.
Funny enough I work at a BMW dealership and we're currently in the process of picking up Energica as a brand and they sent us an EsseEsse9 RS to play with and it is an amazing bike. Stupid power and awesome around town so it would be a perfect compliment to a S1000XR if you wanted something as a commuter and used the XR for your longer trips
Specifically the proper comparable bike would be a 2022 Energica Ribelle RS w/ Windshield. Don't go comparing some 2017 old model (which are still awesome).
At the moment, the LiveWire is the best EV motorcycle that money can buy. Thanks to Harley-Davidson, it also has access to the largest dealer network in the United States. I’ve owned a couple dozen other motorcycles including bikes from Ducati and MV Agusta. 1000 miles into my LiveWire experience, it’s the best bike that I have ever owned - no joke.
The Energica Eva Ribelle destroys the LiveWire my guy. It's not even close.
@@ashleybailey1785 Oh, I have to check it out at my local dealer. Never mind, there are no local dealers. I have owned a lot of Italian motorcycles. Good luck with getting parts for an Energica in 5 years.
@@detansinn9882 Get them shipped to you.
Access to parts and service is part of why it's #1. Sounds to me like someone just wants to down HD
Thumbs up for mentioning Energica at the end :D
absolutely love the look of the livewire....i could actually see "harley" in the headlight assembly and faring.
Almost bought the base model zero. It was like 11500 out the door. Then I heard of all the games they play , I didn't do it. Just don't like that bullshit of having the big battery and having to pay more to use it. Or u can pay more for more battery or a fast charge. I want both. Zero needs to rethink their business model.
Very interesting, maybe dyno them both and call zero's bs?
Also, I think Alta is the only electric bike to win races up until now, I would buy their bike instead of these two if they didn't go bankrupt.
Umm. Alta doesn't exist anymore. Harley bought part of their company and then pretty much froze them out by refusing to invest. Almost like Harley did it on purpose. They love eliminating their competition. Last I heard, BRP bought up a bunch of their IP, but have no plans on restarting the company. That was in 2019.
@@LARGO125 The Del Mar supposedly incorporates the advances pioneered by Alta. It even looks like an off-roader/supermoto.
The Zero looks much more sophisticated to my eye, you could say "more Euro", in that the fairing has *better aerodynamics* .
It looks much more "slippery", like it SLIDES THROUGH the air. The Livewire looks more like it STUFFS ITSELF down the road,
whether the air likes it or not. It will be interesting to see if the better aerodynamics results in better highway range for the Zero.
The entry price is a really big pill to swallow, especially here in Oz where they go for $50k AUD, but the inner hooligan in me loves the look of the Livewire.
Styling wise, the Zero certainly lives up to its name. The CB125E has more personality & better curb presence, and the pay to win nature of it really turns me off.
They jack up most things over here due to our higher wages. So they say.. just a cash grab imho. But oddly low to mid bikes are priced on par with U.S and some are even cheaper when you take currency exchange into consideration like the Duke 390 or Honda Grom... seriously... It's the luxury brands/models that are massively jacked up.
The Livewire could be had for $35k aud out the door towards the end of when they were selling them in OZ
Wait wait wait....so Harley is SO dedicated to the "Harley shake" that they put a dedicated vibrator on their electric bike that is just always on, and therefore drawing power.....and lowering your range.
Why does Harley ALWAYS feel the need to shoot themselves in the foot??
Buy the livewire, because zero is the ea of electric bikes.
And Livewire is Harley so... no.
I really love the livewires and I plan on getting one some day, I love ur videos, all of u guys at Yammie noob do a great job with making them entertaining and educational!
😂😂😂 love the tape on the livewire
"Do not move W/O ignition on"
These dang new electric bikes are something else y'all. 🤦♂️
Man, talk about timely! We're moving to Austin next month, and planning to get an electric motorcycle as my ride once I'm down there. It's wild seeing y'all riding down some highways I came to recognize in recent weeks, on my trips to scout out the area, find an apartment, do interviews, etc, etc.
“No one’s gonna watch this crap” made me chuckle.
You guys always do these side by side pulls on test rides but I've never heard you mention that Spite is obviously like 100lbs heavier than Yam lol. You should have another lighter teammate on for those. otherwise you might as well be riding 2 up...
Turns out, the best way to make your bike faster is to just be a lighter rider xD
At a certain point if you want to go faster, a diet is the best choice.
I think the Live Wire looks more like an electric Street rod & the Zero is a seadoo explorer pro 😂
25k would get some really mean bikes though. a triumph, any of the flagships from japan even. and i rode the livewire, i didn't like it when i tried it. however i did ride a 1995 Kawasaki concours there. just cant get over the missing engine sound
The Mario kart effects were a genius idea, not sure if Nintendo will be very happy about it, when they find out.
For those who don't know, Nintendo used to flag anyone that used footage of their games on videos, and later they had a program that you had to send the video to them, get it approved, and then you could post it in your channel. That's the short version anyway, if you want the long one go look it up on the Internet, there is a lot of content about it out there.
I agree, I for the most part really don't like harley, but between the two, seems like the better bike. Not to mention having to pay to unlock features in an item you have already purchased is the ultimate is BS late stage capitalism nonsense.
Hope zero reads these comments because for me, it is out before even getting to the ride based off of the micro-transaction store to unlock features already installed on the bike. That is a shady business model and I want nothing to do with it. So if nothing else, it's good to see the livewire is a good bike on its own.
I cannot unsee the jet ski now
2:28 love the subliminal sound
The range is just not good enough. Here in the UK, public charging infrastructure is not there; you basically have to be able to get out and home on your own charge and while sure, the theoretical maximum is close to your average ICE bike, the fact it's 8-11 hours charging time means it's not good enough vs the 5 mins to brim a petrol tank from empty.
I wonder if the Zero is power managing itself in the background? Perhaps at full charge it gets the full-fat power and torque figures, but drops that in line with battery charge? Most electric cars do have management systems to stop the car just eating the battery in one hit and automatically stretch the life span, partly to preserve battery health and life span; ie not damage the battery pack by draining it too quickly. It could also be what the cooling is like; computers automatically reduce performance as the devices heats up, again to protect the electronics, perhaps the Zero's cooling is not as good as the Livewire and so has to do more power management?
EV's have a long way to go for me, and then there's question of what happens when the battery needs replacing in 6-8 years? What's the cost of replacing the equivalent of the engine (Ie the thing that generates the motive power)? And E-Waste, including lithium batteries is a becoming a major problem and EV companies need to answer that before I will touch one.
In contrast, classic car and bike markets are a thriving industry for vehicles decades old.
Yammie's disappointment when Spite says "they're already fired up!", Noooooo... 🤣
Livewire wins for me just on looks alone.
I remember passing test and going to choose a bike, I sat on quite a few sports bikes and felt nothing much about them tbh, then I saw a Yamaha xv535 virago and it just called out to me, sat on it and it felt right, started it up a loved the sound, bought it there and then and has it for years.
The harly had that same appeal looks wise.
Energica do nice bikes too but I like the style of the harly.
I just dont like the price here in the UK it's still £29k.
Also, would love if EVs could somehow incorporate a neutral gear, or maybe engine braking? That's what I love about a motorcycle over a CVT transmission. Being able to drop it out of gear is huge.
Not a motorcycle but my maverick hybrid starts regen braking the moment I let off the accelerator. I wonder if the livewire's custom modes would let you set up an aggressive throttle mapping with immediate strong regen when released?
As someone who wants to ride an electric bike, I do enjoy the comparisons. I appreciate you
I'm curious to see how the offerings from Damon Motorcycles plays out in the real world. 200 horsepower, 200 mile range and 200 MPH according to them.
Im curious to also see the copilot thing, and the ride shift. See if they provide anything useful or just gimmicks.
Have you seen the price of the 200mph 200 mile Damon? INSANELY EXPENSIVE
Get both of these bikes to a $15-17k price tag and I'm in on either, though I like the looks of the Livewire better.
If you can get your hands on one, I'd like to see you review a Verge TS.
Go grab the 2023 SRS that has ALL the features open and see if you are a little more impressed. I've put 9000 miles on my 2022 in 4.5 months and I am really happy with all it's been giving. "Try sport mode or a modified wide open all functions custom mode."
Thank you for this video .
The only option for an electric motorcycle I had I'm my part of the world when I bought mine was the Livewire.
I thought it was a good bike when I test rode it and have owned a Harley before and that did what it said on the box but , I didn't know if there were better EV bikes out there.
But it seems that The Mo Co has proved that they can make good motorcycles , which makes me silently scream "for the love of god make the Bronx before ICE bikes are banned" !!!
If you go to a ridesmart trackday in Texas, Dave will let you take the livewire out for a session. You sign the waver and accept the responsibility for returning it in the same condition it was given to you. It is hyper effective on track and is a breeze passing others into corners. No downshifting gets super composed corner entries. Lots of torque and hooks up everywhere. No ground clearance issues. Traction control does a great job. I never felt handicapped by the bike. Eye openning.
The SR/S is beautiful…I’d much rather have…
I could like a Livewire. It has a f eeling of inevitability. By bthat I mean (post oil/gas ICE).Appreciate thatb you can be objective to quite a degree.
What often is forgotten comparing these Bikes (energica as well) is the point that a harley dealer is in every city and there are like one to three zero or energica dealers/garages on every continent. Big point for the live wire here especially if there are problems, that need a mechanic.
Range of energica eva and lifewire was tested in the german alps by the bike journal "Motorrad" with full power mode active on both bikes. Results were 151km (94miles) for the livewire and 165km (103miles) for the energica until batteries were dead.
The plain Eva model is now over 2 years old, newer Energica models have much larger batteries and better efficiency.
Also LW has cruise control and fast charging for an all day ride.
Zero has no cruise control and slow charging but bigger battery option which makes charging even longer
Zero has cruise control.
When I gave up on ICE motorbikes 10 years ago I didn't think I'd be waiting 20 years for an affordable electric model. Hoping for cheap 2nd hand livewire soon.
Anyone else noticed yammy's shirt shift pattern is backwards?
MotoGP shift pattern
Track bikes usually have reversed gears.
@@Mike_Papa Someone should tell Marc Marquez that.
Maybe it would stop all his highsides...
From your commentary the zero seems like a 20 thousand dollar verseys 650 with less character. It even resembles it on camera.
As someone who has both types of bike in the family honestly it’s not all that great, electric is interesting and but many of the argument’s that people make fall flat, for example emissions a motorcycle with a sub 400cc engine will make the same amount of carbon it takes simply to make an electric bike at around 162k miles. Next is cost of charge I know this is different for everyone but it costs me 7.82$ to fill my r3 it costs 6.23$ to charge the livewire. The only thing that electric bikes win at is honestly maintenance but at the enormous starting price that would still take years to even out, I bought my r3 for $2700 the livewire including financing is going to be 29,000$. So I mean is it really worth it? No no it’s not.
Any chance you could make a cool sticker that say's "Not a real man's bike" ?
90% of the time I only need a 10km range. It would be nice to have a modular battery I can add and remove as required.
You hit the limiter. The secret sauce is the custom high voltage battery and motor.
I'll still take a normal bike ny day I'd hate to lane split with a quiet bike like that
Look it’s about preference I think the live wire looks more like a street fighter Zero looks more like a sport bike and the look of the Zero is beautiful 34:54
I test drove both and found the zero much faster and better handling. I can see back road touring on the zero would be better.
Hopefully ya'll adjusted the ride mode settings for a true test. The Sport mode on the Livewire isn't even the full power/throttle settings. You'd have to go into the custom ride mode and adjust the power settings for full 100%. Not sure about the SR/S sport mode settings.
9:50 They said they put it in custom mode with full power, full throttle response, and 80% regenerative braking.
@@r.j.bedore9884 thanks! Missed it when watching
Wheelie test?
This made me want a Livewire even more... I love my XSR700, but that ease of use. Appealing.
Level 3 DC charger for LW beats Zero because there are almost zero 12kwh AC2 chargers in NorthCal
The Zero and Livewire both charge at the same rate at home, and DC charging is Level 3.
Fancy seeing you here NZ
@@biggums3368 hey cool that you've heard of my tiny channel 😂
@@NewZeroland lol tiny? It's good content for the zero crew and now energica
Yammie PLEASE try Energica.
One big mistake. The livewire uses level 3. Not 2.
Technicallyyyy...it uses level 2, just not at that rate!
@@AdventuresonZero yep. I meant to clarify. It uses level 3 for fast charging. Level 2 is nearly as slow as the wall plug option.
@@DouglasSonders yep!
"but the Street Triple will pull to atleast 140-150"
My Street Triple RS does not agree 🤣
One quick note about the charging. Technically, there's no such thing as level 3 charging. You have level 1 and 2 AC charging, then level 1 and 2 DC charging. The LiveWire can do Level 1 AC charging (slowest rate) and Level 1 DC charging (2nd fastest form of charging). I never really take 11 hours to charge my LiveWire. It's a different way to think about it. Think of it like an iPhone, partial charging. If mine is at about 50% charge, I can charge it up to 80-100%, the convince of charging from home. Charging at home it usually only takes about 4-5 hours since I never run the batter down.
Livewire looks lit
I'd love to see another one of those drag strip videos you guys did about a year ago. Bringing along a couple of electrics as well as the Turbo-Busa (and what ever other interesting bike you have in the shop) might make some good content.
No bias showing in that title. How much did HD was pay for this commercial?
It seems as if both of these motorcycles may have been appropriately named.
Where's the Energica? Take them all to a track!
Let’s not forget there isn’t much support for electric bikes as there is for gas bikes. I have a SURRON lite bee that does 65mph and a great bike. But now I have throttle issues and no one to work on it. Electric bikes are a great idea and we’ve been using them for years since my kid was 5 and riding his razor. They have issues ALL of them. Gas is king.
I think the fairing aerodynamics will help Zero quite a bit ...?
I can only say my Zero SRS is fast and fun. I have had no problems with it, I commute to work with it. If you are a Harley fateful buy the live wire, I get it. Zero SRS is faster and is American made. It’s all about getting out there and riding!
This guy's may be paid by Harley, the title for this video is exaggerated., They have personal preference, not neutral.
Livewire for the win. Love it!!! I'm a Harley simp too. Once a hater turned to the dark side. I do not fear the vtwin like you do obi wan.
Yes! Energica 🤌🏼
How about some dyno runs? See what’s up with those manufacturer specs
love to see you compare a 125ccm to a supersoco
The Zero makes me think of one of the motorcycles from Grand Theft auto. Supposed to look like every sport bike you can think of but not enought to have to pay rights to any manufacturer.
But why does yammie hate BMWs sooo much?!? They do everything amazingly except long cruises.
I hope this doesnt sound stupid. Is there some kinda of on off switch on either bike? And how do you prevent the bike from bring stolen? Are there forse looks? Or?
17:55 they need the key fob to switch bikes 👍
If the Zero SRS is not in sports mode this could happen. I own a SRS and don’t believe this video was done in sports mode.
I feel like the live wire is built from old Buell left over parts
i am sorry but we need riding pants .
I could never have a electric bike I couldn't even make it to work a day in a half meaning be relying on car the rest of the week while thing charges.
Okay, I know Yammy said in the podcast that they don't read long comments, but here we go again:
2:45 Just like with ICE motors, the horsepower and torque figures listed by the manufacturers is measured at the crankshaft, not the wheel. Depending on the gear ratio, drive line losses, and wheel/tire size, the torque you "feel" when accelerating can be vastly different than what the manufacturer lists. Before you go calling them Disneyland numbers try putting the bikes on a Dyno and actually measuring their output, then adjust for the tire diameter and gear ratio to get what the torque numbers at the crank would be. Then you can call BS with confidence.
16:25 Batteries have a finite lifespan. As you charge and discharge them, they eventually wear out. Charging them more quickly wears them out faster, as does completely discharging or fully charging. If I remember correctly, the optimum lifespan of a typical Lithium battery is achieved by keeping it between 40% and 80% total charge capacity. That is why companies will list the battery at a lower capacity than what the battery is actually capable of, as it allows them to warranty a product for a longer period than they would be able to if they gave you access to the battery's entire physical capacity. This is called over-provisioning and is quite common in things like cell phones, where the battery would wear out long before the rest of the phone, so the manufacturers limit the useable battery capacity in software so that it will last the life of the warranty on the device. While many of Zero's microtransactions are egregious and indefensible, them charging you extra for the privilege of faster charging or to access the full battery capacity is understandable, as doing so will shorten the lifespan of the battery and will significantly increase the likelihood of them having to replace a battery under warranty. They are basically charging you upfront for the new battery they know they will probably have to put in the bike after you completely thrash the first one.
As far as the drag racing goes, the Livewire looks to have better battery cooling, so after repeated hard pulls the Zero battery might be too hot to be able to give it the full beans anymore. There were also a lot of variables in your street racing that make it hard to say one bike is definitively faster than the other. It would be interesting to see you guys take both bikes to the dragstrip and do repeated pulls with the same person riding both bikes, then compare trap times to see which bike is faster and if either of them started slowing down as they heat up.
Finally, as far as the looks go, I would normally say that looks are subjective and beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but the Livewire is just so much better looking that I can't say that with a straight face. The Livewire wins in the looks department, hands down.
In general this was a good comparison of the two bikes, but if you guys are going to complain that manufacturers are lying about specs, then please test the bikes to prove they are lying instead of just saying it doesn't "feel" like the claimed specs are true. It would help out us consumers if journalists like yourselves held manufacturers accountable for the claims they make about their products. Thanks.
Highly enjoyed this video 👍. Livewire must be good if Mr yam given it some praise especially it being in HD camp. Which would i buy definitely the livewire but I am bit partial to HD motorcycle's. Not keen on the touring bagger models and Dyna models when they were produced. Owned 2 sportster and currently 2 softail models big fan of those bikes. Not a lover of the twincam Dyna models or those touring models. Love HD but not a die hard rather a 77 lowrider than a electraglide of any generation.
try taking the Livewire out of road mode and put it in sport mode.
Level 3 boys.
but u can almost but 2 zeros for 1 harleys price
Spite's got at least 50lbs on Yammie.
Energica vs Lightning
It takes two minutes to fill m petrol bike and I don't want to be waiting an hour or more it seems like where going backwards in technology
I need y’all to get a Damon motorcycle now before I get one
You could say it's 'one' level up
What's funny is. Most people have know clue where electric comes from. Lol most is from fossil fuels.
Need to get the s1 lightning electric sportbike to compare as the gold standard of electric bike performance vs all other electrics...lightning would be the only 1 I'd be interested in maybe more as a track bike maybe work commuter cause work is only 20 minutes away but I'll always prefer my fz09 to anything
S1 Lightning is a gas bike by Buell.
I will wait until electric motorcycles are as affordable as their ICE counterparts. I don't need a ton of power. I just need a bike that can do 150kms on a full charge and is not over 200kgs. I don't really care about charging time but I care more about the charging infrastructure availability. I imagine an electric bike that I can charge thru our normal home power sockets. If it can give me 70% charge in an hour, I'll take that, instead of needing to go to a "specialized" charging station or needing to buy an "optional" fast charging add-on.
On topic, yeah, the Livewire is better than the Zero. I will also take the Livewire over other electric motorcycles I've seen on social media, but that price tag...I'll wait for the technology to get better and become more affordable. While waiting, I will enjoy my ICE bike as long as I can.
I agree, give me range over overall power.