How does your FTL work? Star Wars fan: by entering a dimension where the values of distance and time are switched Trek fan: Antimatter annihilation and using the resulting energy to achieve superluminal velocity Halo fan: by punching a hole in reality and folding two points in space towards each other 40k fan: *YOU GO THROUGH HELL*
"by entering a dimension where the values of distance and time are switched " that does not make any sense whatsoever. Also Star Trek uses warp. Antimatter is just for power.
"we are the defenders of humanity. we are the emperor's blazing sword and the imperium's crushing fist, hundreds of billions of hands ready to die for our mission in the cold, unforgiving space. We are..... the Imperial navy! " ++Admiral spire++
you can add a time stamp on that quote technically 19XM41 we dont exactly know when we shall atribute his qoute so thats why its a X...and no i am not adding realtivity nummber becuase we have no clue of how far form terra his statment is.
"And all I ask is a tall ship and a astronomican to steer her by, And a thousand xenos world to perform exterminatus on as I fly." Fleet Master John Masefieldidus.
The #5 flaw is misguided. Warships in the 40K universe are not *slow and cumbersome.* As for care and maintenance, clearly you underestimate the Mechanicus who literally anoint these venerable vessels in holy oils. Like Astartes, these vessels are deceptively fast. *This video is an offense to the Machine God.*
@@Rawkit_Surgeon 1 Why would a novel trump scenes showing the ships move? 2 Why would a novel trump the BFG source books talking about ship movement? 3 How do you know if the ship is maunverable vs it compromising systems to burn retros to make a sharp maneuver? 4 How can you tell it was very maunverable?
@@lancer737 1. Because that's the appeal of the franchise. Everything is overkill in this universe therefore we need equally overkilly things to out overkill everything else. 2. I'm relatively new to the series and BFG source books were published almost a decade ago and things have kind of moved on. 3. Some of these vessels are over 10K years old. Systems are always compromised. 4. They move at sub light speeds and still perform evasive action. Which I will not get into for I have gotten into too many nerdoffs both in real life and online to know where this kind of questioning is going. Bottom line this video is an analysis and I don't expect them to actually dive too deep into the lore. That only comes with passion for the franchise one loves. Like you and ( *insert obsession for chosen scifi here* ). Fair enough?
@@Rawkit_Surgeon 1 Not really, because we know source books trump everything except for maybe visual media. 2 Said books are still canon as the people making the BFG games for pc use all the lore from them, to make everything, including ranges. 3 Not in the same sense as Retro Thrusters which you can see in their lore. 4 Anything can move at sunlight speed and do evasion maunvers. The targeting systems in 40k used by every single faction is very bad in comparison to others series. Holofields on Eldar ships are nothing more than advanced holograms, for which a hard counter is a mass projection of gravometric waves from Doppler Nova Cannon shells. We see the iom has some, but not all the sensors a ship like a SW ship has, as standard they use gravity sensors. Granted the IOM has some good gravometric senors built into ships, but they don't use them in combat because of the nature of how the senor functions. Ether way, this implies that any radar or radar like sensor will easily counter holofields, and it also implies all IOM ships are under equipped in the sensor department. Nercons semi bypass this issue using lightning cannons, or gauss whips that have a huge area of effect.
loss of vital ships of the imperium to the warp. Never retainabe. And make galaxy equivalent of a carrier of bad ju ju for the rest of the galaxy... kinda a flaw
@@captainangel1078 possibly, but space hulks aren't just a warp problem, only part. Wreck and lost Imperial ships is the main problem that cause space hulks. Orks are quite common scavengers of space wreckages, and they create massive space hulks out of ship remains as well. Space hulks are a downside, not just because of their warp relations, and the problems they cause; but it's the fact that they seem to be primarily a problem that only exists in the Warhammer 40k universe
@@klarkkent6957 That is true. Perhaps they might add it as a minor + for rediscovering ancient tech and equipment from long lost space hulks. I'm thinking about the board game with the same name, where that is an option for missions and game victory rewards
#1 is somewhat mitigated by the Gellar Field Generators on every ship. Granted, if the warp currents wash you into a warpstorm, Emperor help you and your crew, but still... About #4, didn't they switch production focus away from battleships to concentrate on heavy cruisers? To my understanding, building a battleship takes at least a century, while a cruiser is merely a decade.
Lockret heavy cruisers? Heavy cruisers?! You're either a green recruit or a heretic, education will cure the one while a bolt pistol cares for the other. Heavy cruisers, that is mainline vessels fitted with vast amounts of additional firepower and the doctrine of their use is a staple of the traitor fleets. The modern Imperial Navy uses battle cruisers, cruiser class vessels fitted with the most advanced equipment those red robed hoarders are willing to part with, creating vessels with far superior ranges compatible to workhorses like the Lunar class, as well as improved sensors, c3 capabilities as well as often coming with a Nova cannon and/or hangar bays to complement their role as long range support and command vessels. *BANG*
It takes the century because the holy order of the mechanicus is blessing and anointing every rivet and weld as they go, also some of the equipment requires incredibly rare stuff built at only a few locations in the galaxy, not to mention the few yards and forgeworlds building them also have to build and repair a few thousand other ships constantly. Basically it's the Dark Ages in space and automation is a cardinal sin.
Strengths to take into account: 1) Layered Void Shields - 40K ships have layered shields, with each layer regenerating independently, and fast to boot.For good ships, a layer can regenerate within a minute or even less. If you don't break trough the 7th layer before the 1st regenerates, you're back to square 1.This makes these ships VERY hard to kill. 2) Officer Experience - in a universe of only war, Imperial ship officers have vast comba experience against a vas array of enemies with different technologies and tactics. Generals and admirals can also get rejuvenant treatments, meaning that that can easily be far older than any normal human. 3) Weapon variety - 40K ships are generally not amed with just a single type of weapon, but a vast array of all kinds of weapons. Kinetics, missiles, lasers, plasma, microwave and more extotic weapons can all be found on a single ship, meaning that even if the enemy has shielding or armor resistant to one kind of damage, it won't help them much. 4) RAMMING - 40K ships are all built to ram if necessary. 5) NOVA CANNONS - Capable of crippling or destroying several ships at once. 6) Manufactorum ships - Adeptus Mechanicus ships that are capable of producing everything a crusading fleet needs on the spot, making the logistics nightmare of war traval almost irrelevant.
The Imperial creed guide me banishing all doubt or regret. The Emperor stands with us and I have felt the purity of his righteous. I have witnessed his glory burn away the darkness. I have seen the Imperium indomitable ferocity unleashed upon it's countless enemies. I show courage and honor displayed in the Emperor's name. I saw unwavering loyalty and righteous that he inspired. No fortress could withstand the Emperor's wrath, no fury can overcome his protection. The Emperor's light cleanses even darkest corruption, stronger then even the strongest curse. His glory beings salvation to those whose embrace his ideals, even the fallen are offered a chance of redemption in the Emperor's service. Through death, sacrifice, duty, honor these are what the Emperor requires of us.
they are trying to do a series about the logistical and practical use of these sci fi fleets, as far as I can tell. If sailing through the warp makes fleet movements unpredictable for everyone, then I would consider that a disadvantage of sorts
@@Lucarionape That's a fair point. I myself am sad that they didn't talk about the degradation of technology inside of the ships, which is what has force the imperium to utilize slave labor in the first place
@@Lucarionape You could also say the same about the warp. It's just a product of the enviroment, but it still causes massive logistical problems for all whom exist in the Imperial Navy
5:50 one of the problems is that the Imperium of man is at any point engaging in hundreds of various conflicts with xenos, chaos or rebels, and insurrectionists , anything at any one time. So in order to maintain massive Garrison forces or fleets could deprive vital resources from a battle zone for no reason resulting in more losses. The Imperium is just so incredibly massive in scope they can't afford that on the off-chance the eye of terror spits out of chaos fleet to keep valuable forces there for possibly no reason. Hundreds of years can go in between fights and incursions in a region so maintaining a massive fleet there would be a huge waste of necessary resources. This is why the emperor sought to make an improved webway project in order to allow the human empire to move troops and fleets across the Galaxy in moments rather than use the warp but of course the Horus heresy interrupted that.
For proof of the size of ships in 40k - the Gloriana-class battleship, Iron Blood (one of only 20) had a forward ram larger than a Borg cube, at most this is about one sixth of the length of the entire ship.
On #6: the Tempestus Scions fill the role of elite crew members within the navy. They are elite, well armed and well armored soldiers who are trained in void combat and used in boarding actions. They follow their orders fanatically, and on occasion fight alongside the Imperial Guard as storm troopers. By the way, will you talk about the fighters the Imperium uses, or will save them for a video specifically for fighters?
#1 Can't blame the universe mechanics as a flaw. Besides a proper maintained Geller field does make warp travel comparatively safe for the most part. #2 Explaining the intricacies of Imperial bureaucracy is pretty boring so the various authors who have written in the 40K universe tend to sweep it aside. AS far as the command sturcture goes it is pretty simple, captains answer to the fleet command. The fleet commander answers to sector command and sector command answers to segmentum. Chain of command seems pretty clear to me. #3 eh thats accurate. #4 fair point. #5 Battleships get a lot of attention, but the fact is the Imperial navy is made up of countless cruisers, escorts, frigates, destroyers etc. #6 The majority of the tasks aboard a ship are menial and are overseen by the various officers who do know what they doing. you don't need to know how to navigate the stars if your job is just to load multi-tonne shells into a marco cannon. #7 Man power is something the Imperium is not short of and if you do the crime you do the time until you pretty much die. There may be rare exceptions that a prisoner may survive his time and become a rating though. As for mutiny thats just laughable. The prisoners are kept under a strict watch and the only chance a prisoner might have at mutiny would be in the event the ship was rendered derelict and only as long as it took the navy to reclaim it or the enemy to board it, if they cared too. #8 Which is why the navy quarantines any hulks that linger in a system ensuring that no one gets on or off a hulk unless its a Space Marine detachment who are feeling board and looking for something to do. #9 They seem to do a decent job of identifying and meeting most threats and being vague about the effectiveness of the intelligence gathering abilities does not make for a compelling reason. The Ordos Xenos also does a decent job of identifying alien threats and has linguists in their ranks. #10 You don't get to be Grand Admiral if you don't know the composition of the fleets under your command and those of nearby sectors you can call upon. Also did you just suggest that the Cadia fleets have veteran conscripts ???
To be fair, press gangs can be an advantage some times. I remember reading one story about a space frigate captain, a Lucky Jack Aubrius, who was being hounded by the Adeptus Arbites for alleged piracy. After weeks of chase, the law finally cornered him on the docks. Sadly, it was the captain's ship's dock, so his crew just press ganged the arbites and they were never heard from again.
@Generation Films, the picture you showed showing the length of a battleship is outdated and not even acknowledged by the lore. They are between 8-20km long. Depending on the source and sector, as not all battleships even of the same class are the same and can be further modified.
What are recognized as Battleships are actually 8-12km. Things like the Glorianas (the +20km ones), while commonly referred to as battleships, do not fall in the same classification as standard Imperial battleships.
Advantages: unwilling to let the enemy truly win. If they take the planet, you deny them access to that planet as anything but a molten, ruined rock or a new field of debris.
because they don't understand how rare space hulks are and plowing into one is as likely as getting a planet sized comet to the dome as your leave hyperspace in Star Wars.
If you are looking for 10 cons/flaws of Imperial navy, i will give you much better: 1) The ability to build the biggest and best ship was lost, (and in some cases was never there). 2) Imperial navy tactics does not show awareness about that. I mean, the best and biggest warships - the battleships are used for line of battle for simple material grinding of enemy. If i had such problem, i would rearm most, close to all of said battleship with starfighters, or extremely long range armament, or extremely fast engines, and use for the battleline the biggest ship i can still produce, in a bigger numbers if neccessary. 3) There is extremely limited technological (and because of it even tactical) progress. 4) Need for rare and hard-to-train, impossible to train onboard, specialized psykers for navigation in FTL - Navis nobilae and even FTL comunication - Astropath chorus. 5) Because of general lack of trust towards the AI, there are no really "smart" torpedoes, or missiles in Imperial Navy. No "Fire and forget", mostly only "aim, fire, and pray for the best" dumbfire missiles. 6) Because of the dimmensions of ships, the ships are extremely costly resource-wise. Even escorts, light cruisers and cruisers, embody YEARS, or tens of years of WHOLE planetary production of metal materials. In combat, that can vanish in mere seconds. 7) Because of technological state of the imperium, no-one properly understands the gellar fields (the macguffin, wich protects the crew from the demonic incrusion onboard in warp), therefore it is hard to say, if the next FTL travel will be the last one, or not. 8) Because of imperial faith, some of the missions of navy are tacticaly and strategicaly needless (or idiotic), just to protect some "saint nobodys bones" from the enemies. 9) Only really versed personnell onboard of the ships are the mechanicus techpriests (and their higher ranks), who does not TEACH in it even each other, less so normal people, wich means, of the great number of the crew, only small portion does have real technical expertise, to repair, or even participate on repairs of vital systems. 10) The rank for each officer can be purchased, when the candidate comes from privilige and do not want to loose time in lower ranks. Sadly, that sometimes means, the latter officer do not have skills, experiences, gut, or overall attitude, to serve in that rank. 11) difference in living conditions for crew onboard is immesurable. The ratings sleap on flee infested mattress on the floor, wich is sharet with opposite shift(s) personnel and one bucket (toilet) for 10 people. The admirals are known to be acompanied by their persnnal harems and hundrets of manservants. 12) Existence of political officers onboard, who may, and even is expected to execute crew (including captains and higher ranks) for "cowardice". If the captain makes strategic retreat, and does ot presuade the bridge crew, that it will help with winning the engagement, he may end with a bullethole in the back of his head. 13) Wrong ussage of rogue traders since great crussade. - during GC, the RTs were kinda pathfinders for the bigger fleats. But when the GC ended, they did not have SOMEONE, to whom report their findings, from wich source could be said information used, when said region is again a target for imperial crusade, or bigger naval movements. there may be more, but i belive, you did catch the main idea.
@@thexbriannova They literally feed space hulks by how massive of a fleet they are... more of a humble brag, but lets count it as a flaw to not make all those other fleets look even worse. Big E protects!
The space hulks should've been tacked onto the warp flaw: those things only exist because of the Imperium's less-than-safe method of warp travel, as every time their protection fails and a ship is lost en-route they inadvertently create space hulks or add to existing ones.
@@MrEvan312 I question the Warp being a Navy flaw as well. It's really more of a fundamental flaw of the universe than of the Navy. Claiming something that doesn't actually have anything to do directly with their ships as a flaw is absurd. It's like saying the fact that the laws of physics don't allow people to fly by flapping their arms is a flaw of humans. Patently ridiculous.
@@ZZMonkeysUncleZZ Well the Warp itself is not a flaw, it's the Navy's (and the Imperium at large) declining and relatively unreliable technology which cannot always protect them in transit. It's a shame that humanity almost got access to the Webway, thanks MAGNUS.
There are some disadvantages which are either not disadvantages inherent to Imperial Navy, but are problems caused by their enemies, or are total nonsense 1. The Warp - Warp is only dangerous because of the Chaos, you may as well list as weakness of the SW navy that any superweapon they build gets inevitably destroyed before it does much of anything. 2. Spacehulks - Similar to 1. those are dangerous because of the enemies that reside in them. 3. Battleships - No Battleships are absolute beasts and are not inefficient use of resources, also they may be slow and cumbersome by 40k standards, but are still much faster and more agile than something like Star Destroyer. 4. Inteligence - 40k inteligence gathering is actually extremely good, but so is their and their enemies counter-inteligence. They can rip out their enemies memories and have casual access to future precognition. Again the previously listed Galactic Empire is much worse in this area.
The still have some advantages, they are armoured. I mean, an starfighter can't damage it shooting with it's regular guns unlike other universes. Also the bridge are not that exposed as they have heavy armoured and all view ports are closed with reinforced dors at the mimimun signal of danger.
the imperial navy does have specific ship classifications though, so not understanding the ships might not be quite as bad as u may think, also there based on lactation meaning that the ships will be suited to the requirements of that area and if a lord high admiral orders the admiral of one of those fleets to do something in that area, the admiral of the fleet of that area will have a good understanding of not only his fleet but how best to use it in the situation
Most of these are just about what a harsh setting 40k really is. It's to the Imperium Navy's credit that it holds up against such a variety of threats. Is the existence of Space Hulks really a flaw of the navy?
You forget, the Imperial navy is a military force not a policing one. They need the Battleships for major threats. The various PDFs of inhabited worlds handle policing in space.
Found a flaw in your lore. Imperial battleships. all wrong. a lunar class cruiser is 5km long with 95k crew... thats a cruiser and canon. you listed a battleship as a cruiser.
*Makes the sign of the Aquila over his heart* Never forget Cadia. Although I should also point out that in the lore, all Imperial Militrary units (including the Holy Astartes) are designed to be strong in some fields and so very weak in a few other areas. According to the lore this is so that if the unit goes heretic, units can be called in that are strong to the heretic's weaknesses. For example, an Imperial Guard platoon falls to choas, send in a Leman Russ tank formation (although having a formation of multiples of the Primarch Leman Russ would be OP).
In all honesty, I feel like the majority of these flaws are quite solid. There was one flaw that I thought you should have added (and that was the degradation of technology and equipment, forcing the Imperial Navy to even require slaves labor force in the first place), but besides that I think it was a good video. I like that we are avoiding the "who has the biggest stick" arguments, and are focusing more on "who swings it better".
Star Wars ships get destroyed going through an asteroid field at an ant's pace (And we are talking about the 'big and scary' Star Destroyers) One shot from a Nova Cannon will go through two Star Destroyers, one Super Star Destroyer and bury itself deep into the Death Star!
Actually In the scene in Empire Strikes Back, we regularly see Star Destroyers tanking hits from asteroids. That one ISD that got destroyed is an exception, not a norm. In the Empire Strikes Back novelization (which is canon by both Disney and old LucasArts definitions, mind you) it states that these asteroid impacts are easily in the megatons. It also states that the gun crew on the Star Destroyers are shooting down all the asteroids they can see and the ones slipped through regularly hit the Star Destroyer shields. Not saying that they are stronger than IoM cruisers, just saying they are not made of paper.
Dauz. It probably wouldn't go through two and bury itself into the death star. Yes the rounds go two percent the speed of light, and have the equivalent force of a MAC round fired from a UNSC space station from the HALO universe, but the trajectory would be influence after it made impact upon the first ship. Would the round go through an unshielded ISD II? Yes, but not straight through. With shields up? That's a different story, probably after two to three volleys.
you heard it here folks, the math behind the Macrocannon is 3.7 gigatons of tnt (not my math, just double check by me, because I even thought that was absurd)
@@SgtRackhamm I called BS on that argument If tiny asteroids on a slow trajectory can destroy an ISD then why not a shot from a Nova Cannon? (Which is heavier and much faster)
@@christiandauz3742 The Empire only sent that many because if they sent 200 the Rebels would notice a sudden movement of ISDs and realize there's a trap. You do have to remember it's 25,000 ISDs spread throughout possibly hundreds of thousands if not millions of systems.
# 1 should be the lost technology. Those "indentured servants" are only needed because civil wars etc. burnt the knowledge of how the self-loading mechanisms on mega-cannons etc. work.
For points 6 that's the whole point, is to limit the navy to only void battle and the guard for land. Back in the days of the Imperial Army things were better. But then Hersey happened. And also point 8, the Navy doesn't really deal with space hulk. It better to let space marines board it. Point 10, I point to the Lunar class cruiser
@@GenerationFilms You're welcome :) Oh, and if I may make a request: could you at some point go more in-depth into the Humanity First philosophy? Is there a hierarchy of species beneath humans (i.e. are more humanoid species better than, say, xenomorphs)? I had previously requested this on the Generation Tech channel, specifically about the myriad species in Star Wars, although the placements of other species from other franchises would be valuable. In addition, what are your thoughts on the octopuses and other cephalopods? I mean, they can change colour and camoflauge, and there are octopus species which can even crawl on land, and considering a popular Japanese view of tentacles, I would surely imagine that octopuses are a greater threat to us than the sex predator bottlenose dolphins could be.
Ahm, what do you mean by saying that crew members are untrained? The crew, or rather, population, of an imperial vessel is made up of people who literally live there, the ship is their entire world. Indeed, it is entirely common to see a crew who has been in that ship for dozens of generations, if the ship is old enough (which tbh a 5 centuries old ship is considered brand new in the Imperium, and crews are recruited when the ship is finished building)
To be fair the inquisition does the bulk of the Intelligance gathering then tells the navy/army what to do/asks the space marines for help and if it's the space wolves they ask very politely 😂
Using mutiny and bad moral as flaw for the imperium doesn't seem right. If one of the other faktions had too deal with the enemy of the imperium they wouldn't Act different or would be even worse.
great video. To counter your argument in the defense of battleships, the simple size and multitude of enemy ships in 40k has made the battleships a crustal part of the battle field. In the war against the small and fast fleets of the tau they were nearly unstoppable with their thick armor and massive weapons allowing them to plow through enemy picket lines, often preferring to drop out of the warp and smash whole fleets in broadsiding and porting action. While in the wars with chaos space hulks , Ork rocks, Tyrinde bio ship the size of moons, and Eldar craft worlds you will need a really big and sturdy ship that can hold the line better then a frigate and punch better then a cruiser if you don't want to meet the Emperor after a quick dip in the void. or to quot from Burt Gummer of Tremors 2: Aftershocks "When you need it, and don't have it, you sing a different tune"
"Hello hurray we are the great we are the soldier's of the human race Hello hurray we are the great we are the soldier's of the human race We know whats best for you For you" Imperiet - C. C Cowboys (half lyrics in swedish, half in english, just took english part that all can sing along to^^)
#7: using manpower tactics that humanity realized was stupid over 41,000 years before Cadia fell. The Emperor knew this was stupid, he was there in person to see the dominant forces logically figure out how stupid it was to have crews made up of slaves, the Imperium has really bastardized the Emperor's visi- Who the hell is banging on my door at this hour?
If humanity could achieve faster than light travel without entering the warp. It would be a huge boon to the imperium. Plus if the imperium could recreate the necron anti warp technology that would help out a lot.
@@AverusMuto No wonder they don't even bother invading the 40k universe, the entire universe is like America's Funniest Home Videos except at a galactic scale.
the Rune Priests advise caution Lord Inquisitor even our venerable Battle Barges have there quirks act up from time to time nothing the Iron Priests can't handle let us see what they have to say.
Sly Marbo makes "Chuck Norris" jokes about Librarian Moarfistin the Extremely Cross, right up until he uses his power boots to kick Marbo's ass so hard that his spine impales his brain because you don't fuck with the Angry Marines!
I laughed so hard about the Battleship part, the disadvantages you mentioned is EXACTLY the problem with Battleships, they are high cost in resources, man power, are big and slow and nigh unstoppable bring with them high armour and firepower. If you want something that is a little less of everything then you are thinking of the Grand Cruiser (which comes just under battleships, if you want to keep the firepower part, reduce armour, silhouette, cost, man power and speed then you are thinking of battle cruisers.
Ahem. What was that you were saying, citizen? (And, mind you, a million worlds is canonically a rather rough estimation. Entire systems have been lost for centuries to possibly even millennia thanks to this bureaucracy)
How are these flaws? All you've done is demonstrate how good the Imperial Navy is to cope with everything they are faced with. As for 'battleships are expensive' ... Well, duh!
Space Hulks are not a flaw exclusive to the Imperial Navy. Any space ship (Ork, Eldar, even Tau) can end up as part of a space hulk. And they can appear near any world, not just human ones. Granted, with the sheer number of human populated worlds, it's more likely, but they could just as easily reemerge near a Tau colony, or even and uninhabited rock. That's the nature of the warp, unpredictable even at the best of times.
Let’s see... 1. Sly Marbo 2. “Planet broke first!” You guys have been doing your research... You just gained another subscriber! Sly Marbo: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA...!!!!! 👍👏🤬
"Sir, the fleet is burning, the transports have been bombed out of the skies, millions are dead!" "Did you recover the titan precept?" "Yes...?" "Then we only suffered light losses, move on."
@@christiandauz3742 and the Ewoks would have been hunted to extinction as sport and food supplement by the Catachan jungle fighter garrison. And they would probably do it naked, alone and unarmed to make it almost challenging.
Exactly - it takes a long time to build even a single battleship class vessel in the 41st Millennium, but the Imperium has several hundred thousand ship yards each building many ships at the same time, and those yards have been working flat out all day every day for as long as they have been commissioned, which for many of them is 10,000 years. The standing strength of the Imperial Navy is beyond vast. Also, while standard pattern Imperial Battleship are about eight kilometres long, there are super capital ships much larger, though they tend to be unique constructions rather than classes of ship, one of the exceptions being the Gloriana class that was first employed during the Great Crusade. Vessels like the Red Tear are ridiculously huge, and that is before you get to constructs like the Phalanx and the Rock. And each and every Imperial navy warship is extensively void shielded, plated with armour ranging from several metres thick on the smallest ships to many dozens of metres thick on the capital ships, and over gunned to an extent that would be utterly ludicrous in any setting other than 40K.
@@gregorygreenwood-nimmo4954 Mars alone can pump out thousands of Grand Cruisers in a reasonable amount of time Meanwhile, primitive worlds can build Cruisers on their own without support The Imperium's navy is not only much bigger but also more numerous If the Imperium has to switch to full on Escort production, it would Zerg Rush Star Wars in just a year! (And unlike the retarded Empire won't send an ant's force to critical battles) Warp Travel does have the advantage of sometimes being faster than Hyperspace
Again, your preparation and study of topic sucks pretty hard. Problem with warp - if there is no comparably effective way of transport (Tau way is using warp too, only differently and much slower, therefore it is unfit for longer voyages necessary across segment, or even whole imperium. Necron and Tyranid FTL is not applicablefor Imperium, because it can be used only by that races-necron crew - robot skeletors - almost do not mind inertia related problems, and tyranids needs a special ship for their fleet to make a space-jump, not to mention they do not have actual crew - they can transport the crew in a form of biogel, from wich are the footsoldiers bred, when needed. The only "better" FTL than existing is ussage of webway gates - and only sciencist who had a decent shot on it - the big E himslef, did not succeed because of circumstances. After him, the humanity is pretty much limited only on warp, or eldar good will to use their own webway, wich is close to nill. Another point, the ratings are often forcibly conscripted - usually by forcing whole hive-city gangs onboard the ship. Hell sometimes the ratings are convicted criminals chained to their workpost, and their only motivation is the bailifs whip behind their back. Naval inteligence on xenos is provided by inquisition - ordo xenos, or their military arm - the deadwatch spacemarines. Informations regarding weakness and strenghts of xeno vessels, informations are given by mechanicus (wich does have records of combat against said vessels, or even some of them, gained by boarding actions). The same goes for chaos and ordo maleus + ordo hereticus. Regarding the differetiation in imperium fleet - that is a joke? It is easy peazy for imperium to rip ten millenia old starship out of the spacehulk and STIL have the requested spareparts to repair it and properly set if on the enemy... Not to mention, MOST of the ships are based on few STC patterns, wich differs only in dimensions of the ship (escort, light cruiser, cruiser, battlecruiser, and battleship) and armament. And it is (again) not unheard of, to salvage guns of friendly debry and bolt it on your own ship, or swich for your dammaged gunposts, to bolster your AA defence. And that works for 12000 years of void cruising. I have to inform you, that NO compared armada (imperium in star wars, halo, marines from aliens, nor RDA from Pandora) works with SUCH gigantic degree of standardisation, to be able to use ships THOUSANDS of years old for spareparts, nto to mention even salvage and use them.
The strength of the Warhammer navy is the scale of its ships. I suspect it could well have a similar failing to the Star Wars Imperial navy where it comes to smaller ships and fighter craft.
Nope, the 40k navies have escorts at a dime a dozen, and close support weapons cover every inch of the hulls with overlapping fields of fire. The only way anything as big as a single A-wing might get through would be with a jedi pilot and hoping there aren't any sanctioned psykers aboard the imperial vessels looking for that kind of threat so they could fool the sensor and targeting operators.
I don't entirely see why you count space hulks as a flaw with the imperial navy as I can only imagine a similar thing would happen if the debris from the Deathstar was lost in the warp
Imperial Star Destroyer Captain: Lord Vader we found the remnants of an unknown starship roughly 3 times the size of our star destroyers, virtually everything is destroyed or some how distorted except for a new form of faster than light travel, referred to as a warp drive, from what we have learned it can open a gateway to another dimension. Darth Vader: And. Imperial Star Destroyer Captain: The beings used this warp drive to access a series of inter dimensional tunnels in their own galaxy and one connecting to ours, if true the Empire could have a safe route to a new galaxy to conquer for the glory of the Empire! Darth Vader: Take the fleet into this "warp". When we arrive in this new galaxy we will establish a beachhead to launch a full invasion. Imperial Star Destroyer Captain: As you command lord Vader. A year or 3 seconds later in a grim dark galaxy........ A minor demon puppeteering the husk wearing the melded face, helmet and cybernetics of a on""powerful" Sith lord took a deep bow before the Demon Prince of Chaos undivided, when the minor demon opened the defiled and destroyed mind of what was once Darth Vader, the Demon prince began to laugh............... Darth Vader, the 501st and it's accompanying fleet were never seen again. 1 year later the laughter of thirsting gods was heard in the Imperial galaxy.............. 2
2) A cloaked ship of the 20th Legion emerges from the warp in the sensor shadow of Courouscant's sun under orders from the Warmaster... 3) Three days later, two full chapter host fleets of the 17th Legion arrives in high orbit from the warp, bypassing the hyperspace lanes completely and supported by elements of the 8th and 15th Legions as well as elements of Legio cybernetica from the dark mechanicum... 4) As the GE defence platforms and garrison fleet attempts to engage the enormous unidentified warships, their shield generatorss, and weapons suffer unexplained catastrophic failiures, sensors go dark or drive their operators insane through bursts of static laced with daemonic scrap code. Blast doors close and open at random, whole decks are vented into space without warning or command, and unarmed utility droids unexpectedly run amok on inexplicable murder sprees, spreading panic and confusion throughout the imperial defence forces. 5) Then the unmistakeable sounds of heavy impacts on the hulls vibrate throughout every capital ship and defence platform above the planet as boarding torpedoes and dreadclaw assault pods strike true... Hullwards corridors near the impacts fill with acrid smoke as the tearing roar of melta cutters and melting hull plating sizzles to the deck, flowing in bright white hot torrents along the decks, warping the bulkheads as the immense heat disperse and the torrents rapidly cools, slows and solidifies back into solid metal. 6) Stormtroopers are cut down instantly by the thousands behind their makeshift barricades as the first salvos of mass reactive armor piercing bolt shells slam through barricades that would stop a blaster bolt with enough momentum to punch effortlessly through plastoid armour to detonate within... They still doesn't know what's attacking them or why, as all they hear is an incessant, mind splitting unnatural chanting in a language never meant to be uttered by mortal voices, a chant that's making them taste sound, hear colour and the visions etching into their minds is the stuff of their worst nightmares given form mixed with their most secret fantasies of excess... 7) In less than a day, the capital world of the Galactic empire is reduced to a gibbering asylum where daemonic wardens stalk the streets manifesting in physical form at will, always searching for more victims as the emerging vortex of a nacent warp storm swirls above and the skies rain blood... For on Courouscant, there is only war, and the mad laughter of feasting gods...
How does your FTL work?
Star Wars fan: by entering a dimension where the values of distance and time are switched
Trek fan: Antimatter annihilation and using the resulting energy to achieve superluminal velocity
Halo fan: by punching a hole in reality and folding two points in space towards each other
40k fan: *YOU GO THROUGH HELL*
Radmus the Shitpost Machine, 👍
hell literally EMPEROR Protects
HELL YEAH you do...no pun intended
"by entering a dimension where the values of distance and time are switched " that does not make any sense whatsoever.
Also Star Trek uses warp. Antimatter is just for power.
@@XMysticHerox however ST warp is different from 40k warp
40K: we travel through literal hell for a chance to murder our enemies.
DOOM guy: *excited reloading of shotgun*
Sly Marbo: AAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!
Warhammer40k always game me a doom feeling
im pretty sure the doom slayer is what the grey knights have sealed up in titan, with a sign that says "break sarchophagus in case of emergency".
MS bS in case of demon invasion
@@hang_kentang6709 Incorrect. The Doomslayer is in fact one of the two missing Primarchs.
"the first flaw is the warp"
I don't know why but I find this hilarious.
Nature itself is a flaw in warhammer.
Robin Falkner-Wedge yep u no stuff is bad when ur imagination could summon spiky daemons and gut u
@@gongtommy4105 Well, it's not THAT bad...unless you are an untrained psyker.
@@betchersgland7236 Nearly every living being is warp sensitive. The Chaos Gods are just a Projektion.
@@bobuscesar2534 yeah but you have to perform some rituals to *summon* demons if you are not a psyker.
Warhammer 40k only works cause it’s Warhammer 40k
"we are the defenders of humanity. we are the emperor's blazing sword and the imperium's crushing fist, hundreds of billions of hands ready to die for our mission in the cold, unforgiving space. We are..... the Imperial navy! "
++Admiral spire++
The best part of the bfga trailer, it still gives me shivers.
*Raises Finger*
That's *Lord* Admiral Spire.
[happy Admech noises]
you can add a time stamp on that quote technically 19XM41 we dont exactly know when we shall atribute his qoute so thats why its a X...and no i am not adding realtivity nummber becuase we have no clue of how far form terra his statment is.
killertron for me the best part was the ship raming a chaos ship and allah alkbaring
THE PLANET BROKE BEFORE THE GUARD DID!
*BLAM!* It's "The planet cracked, before the guard did!"
CADIA STANDS,
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Cadia broke before the Gaurd.
Cadia STANDS!
"And all I ask is a tall ship and a astronomican to steer her by,
And a thousand xenos world to perform exterminatus on as I fly." Fleet Master John Masefieldidus.
how do i like this more than once ?
I think I know somebody who would like to see your video
INQUISITOR!!!!
*trembling intensifies*
@@GenerationFilms And just pray its the sexy, blonde Inquisitor and not the insane Russian one who never gets off his walking throne
@@weldonwin I'm more worried about Inquisitor Headsmash...
@@GenerationFilms
Star Wars ships get wrecked by tiny little asteroids
Warhammer Ships use asteroid fields as hiding places
ARBITRATOR!! I have a report about Citizen Group #29462, AKA Generation Tech.
The #5 flaw is misguided. Warships in the 40K universe are not *slow and cumbersome.* As for care and maintenance, clearly you underestimate the Mechanicus who literally anoint these venerable vessels in holy oils. Like Astartes, these vessels are deceptively fast.
*This video is an offense to the Machine God.*
We see in animated cut scenes that IOM ships are not that maneuverable.
@@lancer737 Books, my friend.
"Dark Imperium" and "Betrayer" come to mind.
@@Rawkit_Surgeon 1 Why would a novel trump scenes showing the ships move?
2 Why would a novel trump the BFG source books talking about ship movement?
3 How do you know if the ship is maunverable vs it compromising systems to burn retros to make a sharp maneuver?
4 How can you tell it was very maunverable?
@@lancer737 1. Because that's the appeal of the franchise. Everything is overkill in this universe therefore we need equally overkilly things to out overkill everything else.
2. I'm relatively new to the series and BFG source books were published almost a decade ago and things have kind of moved on.
3. Some of these vessels are over 10K years old. Systems are always compromised.
4. They move at sub light speeds and still perform evasive action. Which I will not get into for I have gotten into too many nerdoffs both in real life and online to know where this kind of questioning is going.
Bottom line this video is an analysis and I don't expect them to actually dive too deep into the lore. That only comes with passion for the franchise one loves. Like you and ( *insert obsession for chosen scifi here* ).
Fair enough?
@@Rawkit_Surgeon
1 Not really, because we know source books trump everything except for maybe visual media.
2 Said books are still canon as the people making the BFG games for pc use all the lore from them, to make everything, including ranges.
3 Not in the same sense as Retro Thrusters which you can see in their lore.
4 Anything can move at sunlight speed and do evasion maunvers. The targeting systems in 40k used by every single faction is very bad in comparison to others series. Holofields on Eldar ships are nothing more than advanced holograms, for which a hard counter is a mass projection of gravometric waves from Doppler Nova Cannon shells. We see the iom has some, but not all the sensors a ship like a SW ship has, as standard they use gravity sensors. Granted the IOM has some good gravometric senors built into ships, but they don't use them in combat because of the nature of how the senor functions. Ether way, this implies that any radar or radar like sensor will easily counter holofields, and it also implies all IOM ships are under equipped in the sensor department. Nercons semi bypass this issue using lightning cannons, or gauss whips that have a huge area of effect.
I'll be honest, you gave no reason as to why Space Hulks were a flaw for the Imperiuem, you just stated what they are.
loss of vital ships of the imperium to the warp. Never retainabe. And make galaxy equivalent of a carrier of bad ju ju for the rest of the galaxy... kinda a flaw
@@SgtRackhamm No, because that would still be lumped up with using the warp since the ship was lost to it already, it shouldn't be it's own flaw.
@@captainangel1078 possibly, but space hulks aren't just a warp problem, only part. Wreck and lost Imperial ships is the main problem that cause space hulks. Orks are quite common scavengers of space wreckages, and they create massive space hulks out of ship remains as well.
Space hulks are a downside, not just because of their warp relations, and the problems they cause; but it's the fact that they seem to be primarily a problem that only exists in the Warhammer 40k universe
@@SgtRackhamm if space hulk enters realspaxe, old ships CAN be retrived from it. It happened.
@@klarkkent6957 That is true. Perhaps they might add it as a minor + for rediscovering ancient tech and equipment from long lost space hulks. I'm thinking about the board game with the same name, where that is an option for missions and game victory rewards
The Emperor Protects!
Indeed. The Emperor protects, but having a loaded bolter never hurt either.
From the lightning and the tempest, Emperor deliver us
May his hand guides us through warp.
Let’s face the facts: the ship looks incredible.
phong Wong
I like halos ships the best
@@spaceman6463 **loads bolter**
*HERETIC!*
**BLAM**
Sentinelus The Forgotten
Dragon ball z broly the entire multiverse got destroyed and every thing in 40k : )
@@spaceman6463 what?
WarmongerIan
Broly from dragon ball can kill every thing in 40k and destroy the the universe
#1 is somewhat mitigated by the Gellar Field Generators on every ship. Granted, if the warp currents wash you into a warpstorm, Emperor help you and your crew, but still...
About #4, didn't they switch production focus away from battleships to concentrate on heavy cruisers? To my understanding, building a battleship takes at least a century, while a cruiser is merely a decade.
Lockret heavy cruisers? Heavy cruisers?! You're either a green recruit or a heretic, education will cure the one while a bolt pistol cares for the other. Heavy cruisers, that is mainline vessels fitted with vast amounts of additional firepower and the doctrine of their use is a staple of the traitor fleets. The modern Imperial Navy uses battle cruisers, cruiser class vessels fitted with the most advanced equipment those red robed hoarders are willing to part with, creating vessels with far superior ranges compatible to workhorses like the Lunar class, as well as improved sensors, c3 capabilities as well as often coming with a Nova cannon and/or hangar bays to complement their role as long range support and command vessels.
*BANG*
why the fuck does it take a century to build a battleship that is 8km long I would assume that is it will take like a decade or something
It takes the century because the holy order of the mechanicus is blessing and anointing every rivet and weld as they go, also some of the equipment requires incredibly rare stuff built at only a few locations in the galaxy, not to mention the few yards and forgeworlds building them also have to build and repair a few thousand other ships constantly. Basically it's the Dark Ages in space and automation is a cardinal sin.
@toprowsky123 no to mention that a battle cruiser will win against any number of other ships, as long as they arent from 40k
Primitive Planets can build anything up to a Cruiser on their own in the Imperium!
*=][=*
This channel is now declared heretical
Now, now! Ordo Hereticus, let us wait to see what good things they say about our beloved Imperial Navy
@@SgtRackhamm If not, we have a barrage of Cyclonic Torpedoes ready with American Ben's name on them
@@weldonwin I do believe allowing for an accidental hive fleet to slip passed us and knock on his door would suffice
@@SgtRackhamm Yes, but then you have tyranids. Do you want to get Tyranids? Because thats how you get Tyranids
The Star wars Empire had to build a special battle station to destroy a planet. The Imperium of Man conduct Exterminatus regulary
Strengths to take into account:
1) Layered Void Shields - 40K ships have layered shields, with each layer regenerating independently, and fast to boot.For good ships, a layer can regenerate within a minute or even less. If you don't break trough the 7th layer before the 1st regenerates, you're back to square 1.This makes these ships VERY hard to kill.
2) Officer Experience - in a universe of only war, Imperial ship officers have vast comba experience against a vas array of enemies with different technologies and tactics. Generals and admirals can also get rejuvenant treatments, meaning that that can easily be far older than any normal human.
3) Weapon variety - 40K ships are generally not amed with just a single type of weapon, but a vast array of all kinds of weapons. Kinetics, missiles, lasers, plasma, microwave and more extotic weapons can all be found on a single ship, meaning that even if the enemy has shielding or armor resistant to one kind of damage, it won't help them much.
4) RAMMING - 40K ships are all built to ram if necessary.
5) NOVA CANNONS - Capable of crippling or destroying several ships at once.
6) Manufactorum ships - Adeptus Mechanicus ships that are capable of producing everything a crusading fleet needs on the spot, making the logistics nightmare of war traval almost irrelevant.
7) Transdimensional teleportation boarding parties...
The Imperial creed guide me banishing all doubt or regret.
The Emperor stands with us and I have felt the purity of his righteous.
I have witnessed his glory burn away the darkness.
I have seen the Imperium indomitable ferocity unleashed upon it's countless enemies.
I show courage and honor displayed in the Emperor's name.
I saw unwavering loyalty and righteous that he inspired.
No fortress could withstand the Emperor's wrath, no fury can overcome his protection.
The Emperor's light cleanses even darkest corruption, stronger then even the strongest curse.
His glory beings salvation to those whose embrace his ideals, even the fallen are offered a chance of redemption in the Emperor's service.
Through death, sacrifice, duty, honor these are what the Emperor requires of us.
First, to die for OUR GLORIOUS EMPEROR !!!!
A glorious death indeed 🙌 😢.
We thank you, o' holy martyr.
Molom labe why are you an alien the imperium is only for human not xenos
@@vino1238 I'm a mutant not a xeno. I shall serve the GLORIOUS EMPEROR till my death, to be forgiven for my sins!
We either die for the Emperor or we die trying
I feel like most of the flaws in this video, or at least the early ones, are not flaws of the Imperial Navy but that of the setting.
they are trying to do a series about the logistical and practical use of these sci fi fleets, as far as I can tell. If sailing through the warp makes fleet movements unpredictable for everyone, then I would consider that a disadvantage of sorts
Sgt. Rackhamm I’m not saying it’s not true, I just feel like this is partially misrepresenting the Imperial Navy and the setting.
@@Lucarionape That's a fair point. I myself am sad that they didn't talk about the degradation of technology inside of the ships, which is what has force the imperium to utilize slave labor in the first place
Sgt. Rackhamm also, why raise the subject of spacehulks ? It is quite literally outside of Imperial control wether or not one forms.
@@Lucarionape You could also say the same about the warp. It's just a product of the enviroment, but it still causes massive logistical problems for all whom exist in the Imperial Navy
5:50 one of the problems is that the Imperium of man is at any point engaging in hundreds of various conflicts with xenos, chaos or rebels, and insurrectionists , anything at any one time. So in order to maintain massive Garrison forces or fleets could deprive vital resources from a battle zone for no reason resulting in more losses. The Imperium is just so incredibly massive in scope they can't afford that on the off-chance the eye of terror spits out of chaos fleet to keep valuable forces there for possibly no reason. Hundreds of years can go in between fights and incursions in a region so maintaining a massive fleet there would be a huge waste of necessary resources.
This is why the emperor sought to make an improved webway project in order to allow the human empire to move troops and fleets across the Galaxy in moments rather than use the warp but of course the Horus heresy interrupted that.
The only negotiations for Xenos is at the end of a bolter.
@Dylan Harshman shovel
Keep the Rock far from any 40k movie, unless your talking Dark Angels.
CAN YOU SMELLL!!!!
DARK ANGELS!! FOR THE LION!!!!!
Can you smell what the Rock is cooking? The most recent batch of Fallen experiencing Asmodai's tender love and care
Don't
Mention
Those
Heretics.
I love how big part of the flaws are not purely plot holes.
Most of them have logical and realistic explanation how they work.
For proof of the size of ships in 40k - the Gloriana-class battleship, Iron Blood (one of only 20) had a forward ram larger than a Borg cube, at most this is about one sixth of the length of the entire ship.
On #6: the Tempestus Scions fill the role of elite crew members within the navy. They are elite, well armed and well armored soldiers who are trained in void combat and used in boarding actions. They follow their orders fanatically, and on occasion fight alongside the Imperial Guard as storm troopers.
By the way, will you talk about the fighters the Imperium uses, or will save them for a video specifically for fighters?
Why is the presence of space hulks a flaw of the imperial navy?
Sam Cornero wasted materials and it is a threat that occurs from their knocked out ships
"Cloudy with a chance of heresy" 😂
#1 Can't blame the universe mechanics as a flaw. Besides a proper maintained Geller field does make warp travel comparatively safe for the most part.
#2 Explaining the intricacies of Imperial bureaucracy is pretty boring so the various authors who have written in the 40K universe tend to sweep it aside. AS far as the command sturcture goes it is pretty simple, captains answer to the fleet command. The fleet commander answers to sector command and sector command answers to segmentum. Chain of command seems pretty clear to me.
#3 eh thats accurate.
#4 fair point.
#5 Battleships get a lot of attention, but the fact is the Imperial navy is made up of countless cruisers, escorts, frigates, destroyers etc.
#6 The majority of the tasks aboard a ship are menial and are overseen by the various officers who do know what they doing. you don't need to know how to navigate the stars if your job is just to load multi-tonne shells into a marco cannon.
#7 Man power is something the Imperium is not short of and if you do the crime you do the time until you pretty much die. There may be rare exceptions that a prisoner may survive his time and become a rating though. As for mutiny thats just laughable. The prisoners are kept under a strict watch and the only chance a prisoner might have at mutiny would be in the event the ship was rendered derelict and only as long as it took the navy to reclaim it or the enemy to board it, if they cared too.
#8 Which is why the navy quarantines any hulks that linger in a system ensuring that no one gets on or off a hulk unless its a Space Marine detachment who are feeling board and looking for something to do.
#9 They seem to do a decent job of identifying and meeting most threats and being vague about the effectiveness of the intelligence gathering abilities does not make for a compelling reason. The Ordos Xenos also does a decent job of identifying alien threats and has linguists in their ranks.
#10 You don't get to be Grand Admiral if you don't know the composition of the fleets under your command and those of nearby sectors you can call upon. Also did you just suggest that the Cadia fleets have veteran conscripts ???
To be fair, press gangs can be an advantage some times. I remember reading one story about a space frigate captain, a Lucky Jack Aubrius, who was being hounded by the Adeptus Arbites for alleged piracy. After weeks of chase, the law finally cornered him on the docks. Sadly, it was the captain's ship's dock, so his crew just press ganged the arbites and they were never heard from again.
@Generation Films, the picture you showed showing the length of a battleship is outdated and not even acknowledged by the lore. They are between 8-20km long. Depending on the source and sector, as not all battleships even of the same class are the same and can be further modified.
What are recognized as Battleships are actually 8-12km. Things like the Glorianas (the +20km ones), while commonly referred to as battleships, do not fall in the same classification as standard Imperial battleships.
Advantages: cyclonic torpedoes
Advatages, a ground invasion is uneeded.
Advantages: unwilling to let the enemy truly win. If they take the planet, you deny them access to that planet as anything but a molten, ruined rock or a new field of debris.
6:10 “before you scream heretic,”
Waits 5 seconds
HERETIC
Whats do Space Hulks have to do with flaws in the Imperial Navy ?
because they don't understand how rare space hulks are and plowing into one is as likely as getting a planet sized comet to the dome as your leave hyperspace in Star Wars.
If you are looking for 10 cons/flaws of Imperial navy, i will give you much better:
1) The ability to build the biggest and best ship was lost, (and in some cases was never there).
2) Imperial navy tactics does not show awareness about that. I mean, the best and biggest warships - the battleships are used for line of battle for simple material grinding of enemy. If i had such problem, i would rearm most, close to all of said battleship with starfighters, or extremely long range armament, or extremely fast engines, and use for the battleline the biggest ship i can still produce, in a bigger numbers if neccessary.
3) There is extremely limited technological (and because of it even tactical) progress.
4) Need for rare and hard-to-train, impossible to train onboard, specialized psykers for navigation in FTL - Navis nobilae and even FTL comunication - Astropath chorus.
5) Because of general lack of trust towards the AI, there are no really "smart" torpedoes, or missiles in Imperial Navy. No "Fire and forget", mostly only "aim, fire, and pray for the best" dumbfire missiles.
6) Because of the dimmensions of ships, the ships are extremely costly resource-wise. Even escorts, light cruisers and cruisers, embody YEARS, or tens of years of WHOLE planetary production of metal materials. In combat, that can vanish in mere seconds.
7) Because of technological state of the imperium, no-one properly understands the gellar fields (the macguffin, wich protects the crew from the demonic incrusion onboard in warp), therefore it is hard to say, if the next FTL travel will be the last one, or not.
8) Because of imperial faith, some of the missions of navy are tacticaly and strategicaly needless (or idiotic), just to protect some "saint nobodys bones" from the enemies.
9) Only really versed personnell onboard of the ships are the mechanicus techpriests (and their higher ranks), who does not TEACH in it even each other, less so normal people, wich means, of the great number of the crew, only small portion does have real technical expertise, to repair, or even participate on repairs of vital systems.
10) The rank for each officer can be purchased, when the candidate comes from privilige and do not want to loose time in lower ranks. Sadly, that sometimes means, the latter officer do not have skills, experiences, gut, or overall attitude, to serve in that rank.
11) difference in living conditions for crew onboard is immesurable. The ratings sleap on flee infested mattress on the floor, wich is sharet with opposite shift(s) personnel and one bucket (toilet) for 10 people. The admirals are known to be acompanied by their persnnal harems and hundrets of manservants.
12) Existence of political officers onboard, who may, and even is expected to execute crew (including captains and higher ranks) for "cowardice". If the captain makes strategic retreat, and does ot presuade the bridge crew, that it will help with winning the engagement, he may end with a bullethole in the back of his head.
13) Wrong ussage of rogue traders since great crussade. - during GC, the RTs were kinda pathfinders for the bigger fleats. But when the GC ended, they did not have SOMEONE, to whom report their findings, from wich source could be said information used, when said region is again a target for imperial crusade, or bigger naval movements.
there may be more, but i belive, you did catch the main idea.
I wish you did more research before making this video and pick "real" flaws not arbitrary ones like spacehulks...
Agreed. I was like thinking - How is that any of the Imperial Navy's fault?
@@thexbriannova They literally feed space hulks by how massive of a fleet they are... more of a humble brag, but lets count it as a flaw to not make all those other fleets look even worse. Big E protects!
The space hulks should've been tacked onto the warp flaw: those things only exist because of the Imperium's less-than-safe method of warp travel, as every time their protection fails and a ship is lost en-route they inadvertently create space hulks or add to existing ones.
@@MrEvan312 I question the Warp being a Navy flaw as well. It's really more of a fundamental flaw of the universe than of the Navy. Claiming something that doesn't actually have anything to do directly with their ships as a flaw is absurd. It's like saying the fact that the laws of physics don't allow people to fly by flapping their arms is a flaw of humans. Patently ridiculous.
@@ZZMonkeysUncleZZ Well the Warp itself is not a flaw, it's the Navy's (and the Imperium at large) declining and relatively unreliable technology which cannot always protect them in transit.
It's a shame that humanity almost got access to the Webway, thanks MAGNUS.
Anyone watch that movie Event Horizon? That's basically going through the Warp without a gellar field, and your entire crew are psykers.
There are some disadvantages which are either not disadvantages inherent to Imperial Navy, but are problems caused by their enemies, or are total nonsense
1. The Warp - Warp is only dangerous because of the Chaos, you may as well list as weakness of the SW navy that any superweapon they build gets inevitably destroyed before it does much of anything.
2. Spacehulks - Similar to 1. those are dangerous because of the enemies that reside in them.
3. Battleships - No Battleships are absolute beasts and are not inefficient use of resources, also they may be slow and cumbersome by 40k standards, but are still much faster and more agile than something like Star Destroyer.
4. Inteligence - 40k inteligence gathering is actually extremely good, but so is their and their enemies counter-inteligence. They can rip out their enemies memories and have casual access to future precognition. Again the previously listed Galactic Empire is much worse in this area.
The still have some advantages, they are armoured. I mean, an starfighter can't damage it shooting with it's regular guns unlike other universes. Also the bridge are not that exposed as they have heavy armoured and all view ports are closed with reinforced dors at the mimimun signal of danger.
the imperial navy does have specific ship classifications though, so not understanding the ships might not be quite as bad as u may think, also there based on lactation meaning that the ships will be suited to the requirements of that area and if a lord high admiral orders the admiral of one of those fleets to do something in that area, the admiral of the fleet of that area will have a good understanding of not only his fleet but how best to use it in the situation
Most of these are just about what a harsh setting 40k really is. It's to the Imperium Navy's credit that it holds up against such a variety of threats. Is the existence of Space Hulks really a flaw of the navy?
You forget, the Imperial navy is a military force not a policing one. They need the Battleships for major threats. The various PDFs of inhabited worlds handle policing in space.
Found a flaw in your lore. Imperial battleships. all wrong. a lunar class cruiser is 5km long with 95k crew... thats a cruiser and canon. you listed a battleship as a cruiser.
*Makes the sign of the Aquila over his heart* Never forget Cadia.
Although I should also point out that in the lore, all Imperial Militrary units (including the Holy Astartes) are designed to be strong in some fields and so very weak in a few other areas. According to the lore this is so that if the unit goes heretic, units can be called in that are strong to the heretic's weaknesses. For example, an Imperial Guard platoon falls to choas, send in a Leman Russ tank formation (although having a formation of multiples of the Primarch Leman Russ would be OP).
"The worst possible thing you could do in the universe, next to introducing your girlfriend to Sly Marbo" 🤣
Is it me or does flaw 5 sound like a illegitimate flaw
I only saw 9 as an actual claim of a flaw. The rest were just facts or difficulties.
In all honesty, I feel like the majority of these flaws are quite solid. There was one flaw that I thought you should have added (and that was the degradation of technology and equipment, forcing the Imperial Navy to even require slaves labor force in the first place), but besides that I think it was a good video. I like that we are avoiding the "who has the biggest stick" arguments, and are focusing more on "who swings it better".
Star Wars ships get destroyed going through an asteroid field at an ant's pace
(And we are talking about the 'big and scary' Star Destroyers)
One shot from a Nova Cannon will go through two Star Destroyers, one Super Star Destroyer and bury itself deep into the Death Star!
Actually
In the scene in Empire Strikes Back, we regularly see Star Destroyers tanking hits from asteroids. That one ISD that got destroyed is an exception, not a norm.
In the Empire Strikes Back novelization (which is canon by both Disney and old LucasArts definitions, mind you) it states that these asteroid impacts are easily in the megatons. It also states that the gun crew on the Star Destroyers are shooting down all the asteroids they can see and the ones slipped through regularly hit the Star Destroyer shields.
Not saying that they are stronger than IoM cruisers, just saying they are not made of paper.
Dauz. It probably wouldn't go through two and bury itself into the death star. Yes the rounds go two percent the speed of light, and have the equivalent force of a MAC round fired from a UNSC space station from the HALO universe, but the trajectory would be influence after it made impact upon the first ship. Would the round go through an unshielded ISD II? Yes, but not straight through. With shields up? That's a different story, probably after two to three volleys.
you heard it here folks, the math behind the Macrocannon is 3.7 gigatons of tnt (not my math, just double check by me, because I even thought that was absurd)
@@SgtRackhamm
I called BS on that argument
If tiny asteroids on a slow trajectory can destroy an ISD then why not a shot from a Nova Cannon?
(Which is heavier and much faster)
Inquisitor you know you had to do it to em
Remember kids the high way to he'll is the fastest highway there is
Despite all their problems, let's face it. What's 25000 isds gonna do against literally millions of Imperial of man battleships.
You mean 20 Star Destroyers as they are the only ones sent to Endor!
@@christiandauz3742
The Empire only sent that many because if they sent 200 the Rebels would notice a sudden movement of ISDs and realize there's a trap.
You do have to remember it's 25,000 ISDs spread throughout possibly hundreds of thousands if not millions of systems.
@@404found00
And all of those systems DO NOT FUCKING MATTER SHIT if the Empire LOST ENDOR!
ALL OR FUCKING NOTHING!
Yes inquisitor this video here, it spews heresy like the back end of a plague marine
*=][=* Noted, charging up the nova cannons
# 1 should be the lost technology. Those "indentured servants" are only needed because civil wars etc. burnt the knowledge of how the self-loading mechanisms on mega-cannons etc. work.
For points 6 that's the whole point, is to limit the navy to only void battle and the guard for land. Back in the days of the Imperial Army things were better. But then Hersey happened.
And also point 8, the Navy doesn't really deal with space hulk. It better to let space marines board it.
Point 10, I point to the Lunar class cruiser
THE EMPEROR PROTECTS!
11:27 For anyone in the comments who was wondering, Dari is the name of the Persian language (Farsi) in Afghanistan :)
OHHHHHHHH. Thanks for the tip!
@@GenerationFilms You're welcome :)
Oh, and if I may make a request: could you at some point go more in-depth into the Humanity First philosophy? Is there a hierarchy of species beneath humans (i.e. are more humanoid species better than, say, xenomorphs)? I had previously requested this on the Generation Tech channel, specifically about the myriad species in Star Wars, although the placements of other species from other franchises would be valuable.
In addition, what are your thoughts on the octopuses and other cephalopods? I mean, they can change colour and camoflauge, and there are octopus species which can even crawl on land, and considering a popular Japanese view of tentacles, I would surely imagine that octopuses are a greater threat to us than the sex predator bottlenose dolphins could be.
Me: reads the title
Also me: THE HERESY!!! IT BURNS!!!
Ahm, what do you mean by saying that crew members are untrained? The crew, or rather, population, of an imperial vessel is made up of people who literally live there, the ship is their entire world. Indeed, it is entirely common to see a crew who has been in that ship for dozens of generations, if the ship is old enough (which tbh a 5 centuries old ship is considered brand new in the Imperium, and crews are recruited when the ship is finished building)
To be fair the inquisition does the bulk of the Intelligance gathering then tells the navy/army what to do/asks the space marines for help and if it's the space wolves they ask very politely 😂
Using mutiny and bad moral as flaw for the imperium doesn't seem right.
If one of the other faktions had too deal with the enemy of the imperium they wouldn't Act different or would be even worse.
Great review/video 👍☯️👍
Mutiny? I can’t hear you over the yelling of the thousands of commissars I recruited
great video.
To counter your argument in the defense of battleships, the simple size and multitude of enemy ships in 40k has made the battleships a crustal part of the battle field. In the war against the small and fast fleets of the tau they were nearly unstoppable with their thick armor and massive weapons allowing them to plow through enemy picket lines, often preferring to drop out of the warp and smash whole fleets in broadsiding and porting action. While in the wars with chaos space hulks , Ork rocks, Tyrinde bio ship the size of moons, and Eldar craft worlds you will need a really big and sturdy ship that can hold the line better then a frigate and punch better then a cruiser if you don't want to meet the Emperor after a quick dip in the void.
or to quot from Burt Gummer of Tremors 2: Aftershocks "When you need it, and don't have it, you sing a different tune"
Oh don't worry about the 3rd one. I'm working on it.
"Hello hurray we are the great
we are the soldier's of the human race
Hello hurray we are the great
we are the soldier's of the human race
We know whats best for you
For you"
Imperiet - C. C Cowboys
(half lyrics in swedish, half in english, just took english part that all can sing along to^^)
What sort of Heretical statements are these?!?!?....the Imperial Navy is the greatest to ever exist!!!
But not perfect
Saying you are makes you a knife eared asshole
@@sicarius6501 Heresies!, Commissar, do your duty! (As the Emperor wills it!) *BLAM*
@@destroyermanfernandez6471the Emperor said and accepted that .
Thus making you contradict what he said
And so making you a...
Heretic
@@sicarius6501 So you say...
Heretic
Hi this is choas. Yeah navy is not that great
Who needs to worry about crew revolts when you have explosive collars aka the penal colony's best friend?
Yes Lord Inquisitor. This video right here.
I love how the spaceships in Warhammer looks like gothic archetecture.
wait, this series is gonna last a MONTH? how many faction are we doing?
#7: using manpower tactics that humanity realized was stupid over 41,000 years before Cadia fell. The Emperor knew this was stupid, he was there in person to see the dominant forces logically figure out how stupid it was to have crews made up of slaves, the Imperium has really bastardized the Emperor's visi-
Who the hell is banging on my door at this hour?
Love the video thank you guys please ceep up the amazing content
If humanity could achieve faster than light travel without entering the warp. It would be a huge boon to the imperium. Plus if the imperium could recreate the necron anti warp technology that would help out a lot.
Now i know the Rock thing was a joke but I'd watch the hell out of it
Thanks for the video!! :)
Flaws with the glorious and flawless Imperial Navy?!
HERESY! *BLAM!*
For the emporer
Heresy. You shall meet with our inquisitors soon.
no one ever suspect the arrival of IMperium Inquisition
Now, now! Ordo Hereticus, let us wait to see what good things they say about our beloved Imperial Navy
@@SgtRackhamm to say there are flaws is an heresy to such a degree I must do only one thing. Exterminatus!!!! *Slams the Button with both hands*
@@AverusMuto No wonder they don't even bother invading the 40k universe, the entire universe is like America's Funniest Home Videos except at a galactic scale.
the Rune Priests advise caution Lord Inquisitor even our venerable Battle Barges have there quirks act up from time to time nothing the Iron Priests can't handle let us see what they have to say.
It's probably not gonna be relevant but would love you to cover the king ships of the word bearers
The Imperial Navy has flaws? HERESY!
You finally said it. Thank you.
Sly Marbo makes "Chuck Norris" jokes about Librarian Moarfistin the Extremely Cross, right up until he uses his power boots to kick Marbo's ass so hard that his spine impales his brain because you don't fuck with the Angry Marines!
I laughed so hard about the Battleship part, the disadvantages you mentioned is EXACTLY the problem with Battleships, they are high cost in resources, man power, are big and slow and nigh unstoppable bring with them high armour and firepower. If you want something that is a little less of everything then you are thinking of the Grand Cruiser (which comes just under battleships, if you want to keep the firepower part, reduce armour, silhouette, cost, man power and speed then you are thinking of battle cruisers.
The emperor protects brothers
Summary: the warp is completely safe, except when it isn't.
flaws? WE DON'T EVEN REMEMBER HOW THESE THINGS WORK!
Ahem. What was that you were saying, citizen? (And, mind you, a million worlds is canonically a rather rough estimation. Entire systems have been lost for centuries to possibly even millennia thanks to this bureaucracy)
How are these flaws? All you've done is demonstrate how good the Imperial Navy is to cope with everything they are faced with.
As for 'battleships are expensive' ... Well, duh!
Yes Inquistor this is the video.
I bought Sly Marbo at the start of last year. By August I was single.
I never made the connection until I watched this video....
We've all been there.
Space Hulks are not a flaw exclusive to the Imperial Navy. Any space ship (Ork, Eldar, even Tau) can end up as part of a space hulk. And they can appear near any world, not just human ones. Granted, with the sheer number of human populated worlds, it's more likely, but they could just as easily reemerge near a Tau colony, or even and uninhabited rock. That's the nature of the warp, unpredictable even at the best of times.
Let’s see...
1. Sly Marbo
2. “Planet broke first!”
You guys have been doing your research...
You just gained another subscriber!
Sly Marbo:
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA...!!!!! 👍👏🤬
"Sir, the fleet is burning, the transports have been bombed out of the skies, millions are dead!"
"Did you recover the titan precept?"
"Yes...?"
"Then we only suffered light losses, move on."
All of their ships are bigger than an ISD, with battleships being up to ten times the length, in a navy of hundreds of millions.
They can actually replace their losses and actually use them in desperate situations
The Imperium would have never loss a single ship on Endor
@@christiandauz3742 and the Ewoks would have been hunted to extinction as sport and food supplement by the Catachan jungle fighter garrison.
And they would probably do it naked, alone and unarmed to make it almost challenging.
@@SonsOfLorgar
Nah, just send one Death Korps Company
They would kill all the Ewoks and Rebels in under a day!
Exactly - it takes a long time to build even a single battleship class vessel in the 41st Millennium, but the Imperium has several hundred thousand ship yards each building many ships at the same time, and those yards have been working flat out all day every day for as long as they have been commissioned, which for many of them is 10,000 years. The standing strength of the Imperial Navy is beyond vast.
Also, while standard pattern Imperial Battleship are about eight kilometres long, there are super capital ships much larger, though they tend to be unique constructions rather than classes of ship, one of the exceptions being the Gloriana class that was first employed during the Great Crusade. Vessels like the Red Tear are ridiculously huge, and that is before you get to constructs like the Phalanx and the Rock. And each and every Imperial navy warship is extensively void shielded, plated with armour ranging from several metres thick on the smallest ships to many dozens of metres thick on the capital ships, and over gunned to an extent that would be utterly ludicrous in any setting other than 40K.
@@gregorygreenwood-nimmo4954
Mars alone can pump out thousands of Grand Cruisers in a reasonable amount of time
Meanwhile, primitive worlds can build Cruisers on their own without support
The Imperium's navy is not only much bigger but also more numerous
If the Imperium has to switch to full on Escort production, it would Zerg Rush Star Wars in just a year!
(And unlike the retarded Empire won't send an ant's force to critical battles)
Warp Travel does have the advantage of sometimes being faster than Hyperspace
Again, your preparation and study of topic sucks pretty hard.
Problem with warp - if there is no comparably effective way of transport (Tau way is using warp too, only differently and much slower, therefore it is unfit for longer voyages necessary across segment, or even whole imperium. Necron and Tyranid FTL is not applicablefor Imperium, because it can be used only by that races-necron crew - robot skeletors - almost do not mind inertia related problems, and tyranids needs a special ship for their fleet to make a space-jump, not to mention they do not have actual crew - they can transport the crew in a form of biogel, from wich are the footsoldiers bred, when needed. The only "better" FTL than existing is ussage of webway gates - and only sciencist who had a decent shot on it - the big E himslef, did not succeed because of circumstances. After him, the humanity is pretty much limited only on warp, or eldar good will to use their own webway, wich is close to nill.
Another point, the ratings are often forcibly conscripted - usually by forcing whole hive-city gangs onboard the ship. Hell sometimes the ratings are convicted criminals chained to their workpost, and their only motivation is the bailifs whip behind their back.
Naval inteligence on xenos is provided by inquisition - ordo xenos, or their military arm - the deadwatch spacemarines. Informations regarding weakness and strenghts of xeno vessels, informations are given by mechanicus (wich does have records of combat against said vessels, or even some of them, gained by boarding actions). The same goes for chaos and ordo maleus + ordo hereticus.
Regarding the differetiation in imperium fleet - that is a joke? It is easy peazy for imperium to rip ten millenia old starship out of the spacehulk and STIL have the requested spareparts to repair it and properly set if on the enemy... Not to mention, MOST of the ships are based on few STC patterns, wich differs only in dimensions of the ship (escort, light cruiser, cruiser, battlecruiser, and battleship) and armament. And it is (again) not unheard of, to salvage guns of friendly debry and bolt it on your own ship, or swich for your dammaged gunposts, to bolster your AA defence. And that works for 12000 years of void cruising. I have to inform you, that NO compared armada (imperium in star wars, halo, marines from aliens, nor RDA from Pandora) works with SUCH gigantic degree of standardisation, to be able to use ships THOUSANDS of years old for spareparts, nto to mention even salvage and use them.
That condescending dickhead won’t make a counter argument
Lol sly marbo joke hahaha amazing
It is time for a Hell Ride without a Paddle!!!
Remember to bring your didgery-do to fight off the crotalids!
@@redenginner crikey, I almost fogot
If you could look up the definition intergalactic that be great. Only race I can think of in 40k that are intergalactic are tyranids.
The inteligence gathering part of the video is from the Gaunt s Ghosts novels.
*The War Eternal!*
The strength of the Warhammer navy is the scale of its ships. I suspect it could well have a similar failing to the Star Wars Imperial navy where it comes to smaller ships and fighter craft.
Nope, the 40k navies have escorts at a dime a dozen, and close support weapons cover every inch of the hulls with overlapping fields of fire.
The only way anything as big as a single A-wing might get through would be with a jedi pilot and hoping there aren't any sanctioned psykers aboard the imperial vessels looking for that kind of threat so they could fool the sensor and targeting operators.
I don't entirely see why you count space hulks as a flaw with the imperial navy as I can only imagine a similar thing would happen if the debris from the Deathstar was lost in the warp
Imperial Star Destroyer Captain: Lord Vader we found the remnants of an unknown starship roughly 3 times the size of our star destroyers, virtually everything is destroyed or some how distorted except for a new form of faster than light travel, referred to as a warp drive, from what we have learned it can open a gateway to another dimension.
Darth Vader: And.
Imperial Star Destroyer Captain: The beings used this warp drive to access a series of inter dimensional tunnels in their own galaxy and one connecting to ours, if true the Empire could have a safe route to a new galaxy to conquer for the glory of the Empire!
Darth Vader: Take the fleet into this "warp". When we arrive in this new galaxy we will establish a beachhead to launch a full invasion.
Imperial Star Destroyer Captain: As you command lord Vader.
A year or 3 seconds later in a grim dark galaxy........
A minor demon puppeteering the husk wearing the melded face, helmet and cybernetics of a on""powerful" Sith lord took a deep bow before the Demon Prince of Chaos undivided, when the minor demon opened the defiled and destroyed mind of what was once Darth Vader, the Demon prince began to laugh...............
Darth Vader, the 501st and it's accompanying fleet were never seen again.
1 year later the laughter of thirsting gods was heard in the Imperial galaxy..............
2
2) A cloaked ship of the 20th Legion emerges from the warp in the sensor shadow of Courouscant's sun under orders from the Warmaster...
3) Three days later, two full chapter host fleets of the 17th Legion arrives in high orbit from the warp, bypassing the hyperspace lanes completely and supported by elements of the 8th and 15th Legions as well as elements of Legio cybernetica from the dark mechanicum...
4) As the GE defence platforms and garrison fleet attempts to engage the enormous unidentified warships, their shield generatorss, and weapons suffer unexplained catastrophic failiures, sensors go dark or drive their operators insane through bursts of static laced with daemonic scrap code.
Blast doors close and open at random, whole decks are vented into space without warning or command, and unarmed utility droids unexpectedly run amok on inexplicable murder sprees, spreading panic and confusion throughout the imperial defence forces.
5) Then the unmistakeable sounds of heavy impacts on the hulls vibrate throughout every capital ship and defence platform above the planet as boarding torpedoes and dreadclaw assault pods strike true...
Hullwards corridors near the impacts fill with acrid smoke as the tearing roar of melta cutters and melting hull plating sizzles to the deck, flowing in bright white hot torrents along the decks, warping the bulkheads as the immense heat disperse and the torrents rapidly cools, slows and solidifies back into solid metal.
6) Stormtroopers are cut down instantly by the thousands behind their makeshift barricades as the first salvos of mass reactive armor piercing bolt shells slam through barricades that would stop a blaster bolt with enough momentum to punch effortlessly through plastoid armour to detonate within...
They still doesn't know what's attacking them or why, as all they hear is an incessant, mind splitting unnatural chanting in a language never meant to be uttered by mortal voices, a chant that's making them taste sound, hear colour and the visions etching into their minds is the stuff of their worst nightmares given form mixed with their most secret fantasies of excess...
7) In less than a day, the capital world of the Galactic empire is reduced to a gibbering asylum where daemonic wardens stalk the streets manifesting in physical form at will, always searching for more victims as the emerging vortex of a nacent warp storm swirls above and the skies rain blood...
For on Courouscant, there is only war, and the mad laughter of feasting gods...
@@SonsOfLorgar *WARPED FRAGMENTS:* "Ooh~, Do you mind if we have a feast on the Warp itself?"