"To be a good healer you should play as tank too, and to be a good tank you should play as a healer too" while I think that advice still hold, this video is a really good subtitute for that since it's not feasible for everyone to play multiple jobs. Another great video!
Also great advice! I also realize probably many healers already have played a tank and so might not need this video. But hey, maybe this alternative perspective still adds something! 😊 Thank you!
@@CaetsuChaijiCh Haha It really does add something for me. I completely forgot how HoC heal work, since GNB is my least played tank. I somehow assumed it was a regen like Holy Sheltron. Hahaha.....
💯 My mains are WHM and WAR but I've leveled all of them. It gives you insights to the job if you're actually the type of person to try to understand their tool kits.
Fair warning to any healer that heals a tank in the 50-60s range that is down-synced is that you somtimes get someone that thinks he is invincible because of cds he no longer has. I think that healing is hardest with newer players in whateversburg lvl 50 (hard) dungeons because of this.
@@CaetsuChaijiCh That panic you feel in your gut when the buttons do nothing? That's the same feeling you feel when you know you are being hunted. It's some primal shit, to be a healer.
Thank you for this! Often as a healer, I get the impression that Tanks believe you should know all the abilities in THEIR job as well as my own. I will eventually, and am trying to get better, but jeez no need to scream at me about it
Indeed, the classic example is with living dead, but just generally it does seem to be the case that it is assumed everyone just knows about tank toolkits! 😅 Thank you!
Tanks without patience are a bummer! I love being part of a team and there's something satisfying about putting my life in someone's hands and working as a full group to overcome. It's thrilling!
My "favorite" tanks are the ones that never stop running, don't know their own limits and get confused when they aren't receiving heals cause the rest of the party no longer has line of sight on them.
I mean, knowing the big important skills on every other job is important as a player in this game in general. It lets you adjust more quickly to what your random group has (to use a dps example I have seen more than once from every role in the game, it keeps you from being a dick to a Red Mage who just isn't at Rez Mage levels yet), and since as a healer you're going to be dealing with all four invulns a lot it's a good idea to have a basic idea of how all the invulns function, even if it's just at the most basic level. Now, obviously decently knowing *every* job off the top of your head is an ideal and not something most people can do, but it does genuinely help tactics to have a vague idea of what people are capable of at various levels-if you have a tank that stubbornly wants to pull big in Stone Vigil when your DPS consists of two dragoons, you should expect difficulty in keeping them alive purely because the aoe damage output just isn't there yet. Keeping what people can do in your group in mind is part of being a good player of any role.
Something not mentioned during the GNB invuln is White Mages Benediction. The Bene-Superbolide meme is nearly as well known as the floor tank Dragoon, and that as a GNB, if you have a Whm heal, you -really- need to communicate if you're planning on using Superbolide, otherwise they will throw their cane at you after you superbolide right as they cast benediction.
@@azadalamiq Bene can be super-efficient, though. I don't normally bother trying to communicate things in roulettes, but when playing with a friend as WHM-tank combo it wasn't uncommon to plan Benes
@@Uwawa96I have seen WHM described as "playing How Low Can You Go with the tank's hp bar before casting Bene" which is absolutely 100% the best way to give tanks anxiety xD
Watching the GNB explanation on superbolide made me remember the meme of WHM using Benediction just before the GNB hits superbolide without advicing the intent.. I have gone thru that one a lot when playing healer.. I used to panic back then, now I laugh and drop MedII, regen and goodluck to all of us 🤣
I managed that once in lightspeed i literally use Superbolide _one frame_ after i get Benediction like almost at the same time but in the wrong order :D
Recently ran a dungeon as GNB, did a huge pull, ran out of cool downs and waited for just the right moment to bolide. The WHM cast Benediction just as I clicked the button to superbolide, and all I could do was laugh it off lmao
As someone who plays healer a lot, there are 2 types of warriors: >Unkillable tanks that don't need no healer >They take everything raw, not even popping bloodwhetting/raw intuition and needing to be babysit the entire time Unfortunately, I find the latter is more common in roulettes.
I can kind of vouch for the 2nd type. I had a warrior not use ANY mitigation until I pointed it out, in which case they did actually started using RI. The warriors I tend to run into as a healer have been mostly decent( not unkillable, but I had no problems with healing them). I've been trying to get a healer glam from Azadaal's Legacy these past few days and gun breakers have been the hardest to heal and I can coast when it's a warrior.
I always just assume the healer knows I'm a warrior. But everytime they show that they don't by already spamming heals when I've only lost 20k HP, I go ahead and let them think they have to suffer. Your best bet as a healer is to NOT PANIC. Always assume they are the unkillable type. 😅
@@anjoumaakait's all fun and games to let the tank eat some damage until they're halfway down their HP so you start healing them and notice the damage is outpacing the heals+regen because they pulled w2w and WON'T MOVE AWAY OUT OF THE AOES!
Great video! you could probably do a "How Healers work But From a Tank's Perspective". Sometimes healers have certain quirks that make certain pulls sometimes weird, but interesting and fun in a way. WHMs have Holy that causes a stun to any pack in it's range which can be spammed (I consider Holy almost like another form of mitigation when you are not getting hit in a dungeon pack) with a bit of downsides to where you have to work around it and time things. For example, when a WHM spams Holy early on, I seen tanks unfortunately waste Bloodwhetting while the mobs are stunned, or a DRK's TBN didn't break because they are stunned and when the pack is finally immune to stun, the tanks go-to bits is on cooldown. I'm sure it's not a huge deal since most dungeon mob packs are not immensely dangerous and maybe the general tank population are probably used to just going standard approach, but still helps out in a way for anyone to take advantage of a healer's movekit on maximizing cooldowns and the output. I sometimes like to time Holy during it's diminishing returns for when the mobs are now immune to stun so that I can go to town with Bloodwhetting etc. There's also other ones like SCH's Excog or SGE's Haima where I like to see those pop first so that the rest of the tanks cooldowns flows smoothly.
I did consider the alternative combination video, but I felt most of the things to watch out for would be white mage quirks 😅(holy, asylum dome placement, benediction, and greeding extra on damage), but you're not the first to suggest this. I might see if I can make such a guide 😊 As a warrior player myself, I tend to use bloodwhetting despite white mage holy because I've seen white mages hold back on attacking to top me up first otherwise. I won't be missing the cooldown, since the holy stuns were extra mitigation I never planned for anyway, just to give a perspective! 😊 Considering the healers options is a great idea though as a tank!
Holy only stuns twice. Casting it more than that is worthless. Cast twice then prep to heal. Too many whites forget or don't pay attention to the fact stun immunity is a thing, as is stun reduction. SOME enemies you can stun 3 times with holy. The 3rd stun lasts like half a second.
@@Nempo13 just cause the stun is no longer effective doesn't mean its worthless. healer DPS is important in reducing the time it takes for a pull to end
Learning far too late that letting my health drop to half before hitting my Raw Int/Bloodwhetting is causing all kinds of panic. Even having leveled a few healers to max already, somehow my brain didn't think that there were healers who just weren't sure what I was doing when I was letting that happen. I've done it without thinking for so long! Thank you for the very necessary perspective my brain needed to hopefully cause less freakouts in the future. Healers have it hard enough already... orz
It may be worth noting how depending on what healer you are, tanks will react differently. Particularly for AST; waiting to get the most out of ED often scares them, and they're often not aware of your Earthly Star cooking in the background.
This is true. Indeed, for both ast and whm, letting your tank drop really low to get the most out of Ed or bene can have a weird panic effect on the tank, which is basically the reverse of when the tank decides to use nothing so they drop low to invuln 😅
You also have to consider personal experience too, I've had many bad experiences with White Mages due to trying to let me get too low, and then, me going down before their benediction comes out, I don't think I've ever really experienced anything similar with any other healer class, it's only ever White Mage. It often leaves me being a bit more trigger happy with Superbolide around white mages, and then like, never having to touch it for any other of the healers. On the other hand I've teamed with so many good astros at this point that I just don't... Panic at low HP anymore with them due to how well those Astros were at keeping me standing.
Thanks for this! I’m trying to unlearn some bad healing habits, and I’ve run into some unexpected situations where the tank just…magically healed themselves from my POV. If I could offer a suggestion, though (which might just be me): Because I’m so unfamiliar with other classes, when you say to keep an eye on the tank’s buffs, I’m not actually sure which buff icons I should be looking for. Thankfully you have other guides that go into tank abilities and show what it looks like on the party list when certain actions are taken, so I’ve been cross-referencing this with your other guides, but some kind of highlight around the buffs under discussion would have helped me to better understand what to look for. It’s a minor issue, though, since your other videos make it easy to find out that information elsewhere, so thanks for those as well!
Thank you! Yeah I sort of realized that later down the line, that obviously not everyone is aware of what the icons of each defensive cooldown is for each tank, and I was very focused on the invulnerabilities in that regard ^^ Thank you for the suggestion!
Today, for the first time ever, I had a tank stop and announce that they were using a cooldown on the next pull. NGL, I don't really know what I was meant to do because I don't know how the tank invulns wor exactly, I just got my benediction finger ready... they popped it too late, and I didn't bene them in time, and we wiped, but our second run worked out. As a white mage I'm just out there trying to keep you from hitting zero as you run away. I should maybe learn what all the invuln buffs look like on the party list, because it would probably be nice to know I worked well with the tank and their cooldowns. This video was exactly what I needed, thank you.
Great concept for a vid. I try to announce all of my intentions, especially pulls i intend to use invuln but it's clear once the pull starts and I'm getting healed through my inv as a war i know the healer either didn't see or didn't understand what i said
Yeah, unfortunately if the healer doesn't know, explaining in detail what you expect of them simply is too long of a message for them to read, so all you can do is hope they know 😕
As a tank, this video is still really useful for me! Healers are the one keeping me alive, so proper communication (both spoken and unspoken) will go a long way. This video also made me realize that invuln skills like Living Dead aren't just desperation moves against bosses, but are also really useful for harsh wall-to-wall pulls. The 3.5 MSQ dungeon, for example, has a *lot* of enemies in its first area, so when I tried going for a W2W for the first time, it caused a wipe. If I knew to use Living Dead, and properly conveyed this to my healer, I think we could've actually taken that W2W pull. (And since it was the first area, the 300 second cooldown would've finished earlier, just in case I needed Living Dead again.)
as a former wow player, it was hard to learn to switch the mentality from panic "must save this just in case i need it later" buttons to "plan to use this in your rotation on purpose" buttons. The thing I tell people now is "you have the button, use it" and honestly, it has really helped. both in reducing the number of times I've been put into a panic situation by straight up avoiding the situation, but also using the buttons more often give me a better muscle memory / reaction time to where the button is when things hit the fan. but also, helping me stay calm and feeling in control when things go sideways, because I know my toolkit and how to use it and how to react quickly and get us back on track. like before, a lot of times i would panic and find myself lost on what to do, and hitting all the buttons and finding the one i need too late or sometimes not even sure how to save the situation. and after the wipe thinking, "man if i had just done x, we probably would have lived" similarly to your thoughts about using LD on that pull. i know a lot of the cool downs seem long when just looking at the raw number of seconds. but this video does a great job of explaining the timing on a lot of them. and having that in mind really helped me plan out CDs for dungeons. and each dungeon is a little different, with some pulls being harder than others, making which pull to use which CDs more important.
While we're sharing things most people probably don't know, something for the tanks reading this. Did you know that Arms Length is a defensive cooldown in mob pulls? It gives enemies slow, which doesn't work vs bosses, but reduces attacks by 20%, effectively another mitigation to add to your rotation.
@anteprs7908 are you talking about arms length? It says the slow effect in the second half of it. And while bosses are immune to it, most regular mobs get a generic slow debuff from it which Indeed makes them take 20% longer between each swing 😊
@@CaetsuChaijiCh it say but all effect show up in the name of npc at least effect over time like with most dots or mits you can see them on ,but arms length only show up on thr chr that uses it and show the knockback effect .
Imo tanking is the role with the most "unspoken rules" and is the most behavior/strategy heavy role. I recently found a guide about off-tanking where he explained how various tank/boss interactions work, and there was so much stuff I didnt know. For healers and dps, it's enough to just know how your kit works and interacts with itself, but for a tank there are so many more points about how you interact with bosses, enemies, other tanks and more to set everything up for your team. Tanking is the hardest role to learn because it's hard to find the information to teach yourself in the first place.
This is very true. Tanks also deal with a lot of less specific rules like positioning just to name one. And because the role is defensive in nature, it can be hard to even make a guide that applies for everything, since optimally you have to adjust to every fight case by case!
I half agree. The upfront learning curve is big, but once you get past that, it's probably the easiest role to play. On another hand, healing is a tossup because its difficulty depends on how many mistakes are made; teammates dying eats up your MP for reviving, and you dying makes your own healing weaker upon being revived. The hardest role, actually, is dps. You can't self-heal or raw hp/mit through mistakes, and your rotation is the hardest, so you are least able to focus on other players.
@iPlayOnSpica hahaha, now we're looping back to caiji's video on job difficulty for various types of players. That's how you know the man makes good content! At the time of writing this, it hasn't even been 24 hours since I finished the base end walker msq, and I haven't even started post-ew yet. 4 jobs are lvl 90 for me, so for someone well established in the raiding scene I can see how dps would be the hardest job to play once it's been learned.
Tbh Tank is mostly.. hard to learn but easy to master, sure many player also scared about tanking because _you are the leader of the group_ and not experience Tanks are also often the target for rude players, because many player dont care when you dont have a good dps rotation (in casual content) BUT.. when you fuck up something as tank _everyone sees it_ Its literally the opposite of a dps job.. dps is literally easy to learn because casual content has barely dps checks but when you go in the "Hardcore" Content?.. oh boi i hope you learn your rotation.
@@kohlicoide2258 tbh, as tank main... Yea. Most difficult part for me is to switch my muscle memory between WAR and DRK (as I've cleared the entirety of savage Anabaseios as DRK, and Abyssos as WAR), but the defensive part is quite standardised per se, with a couple of quirks like when is actually a good time to use Vengeance, or Dark Mind, etc.
I know this is aimed at healers, but as someone more freshly coming into tanking, this had some good info for me on that front as well. Some how no one, not even my friend, had told me yet it is best to start with your short mit, then cycle to long, then back to short. I will be keeping that in mind next time I play my tank.
As one of the Warriors that "don't need no healer" I can say with absolute certainty that if I wasn't "this stingy with said healing" then I would, in fact, be a warrior that needs a healer. A lot of the time the reason you hold out on using Bloodwhetting is to offset the cooldown so its up again when you need it, especially if its the 2nd pull when your Vengeance is on cooldown. This is less true if your in full BIS (or just generally overgeared for a dungeon) but even then it still holds water for some dungeons. And this is **always** true if your doing a 3dps 1tank dungeon run.
That is a fair point. In my experience, I typically have plenty of resources to work with when I am tanking as warrior, that I can spend Bloodwhetting quite early in a pull and still be fine regardless of what the healer chooses to do. The primary reason I advice against sitting on Bloodwhetting like this, is specifically because when it scares the healer, the healer is more likely to spend more resources rather than less, which is the exact opposite of what you intended to do. In a real situation, there is of course also a far greater chance that the logical time to use bloodwhetting is when youve lost a bit of HP. But there is also a massive difference between using Bloodwhetting at 100% (Which is technically sort of what I am suggesting in the video I will admit xD), 80%, 50%, and 20% (which tends to be where a lot of healers start panicking a lot, if they didn't already start panicking earlier than that) And when your healer starts panicking, they start wasting resources. Whether that resource is casting Cure 2, or tossing 2 or 3 oGCDs that you didn't actually want can vary from healer to healer. Problem being is that at 20%, if YOU don't do anything about it by then, then if the healer doesn't you die. And then they risk a tank blaming the healer for not healing them. So if you wait too long, and the healer has to act, they will ^^ In a 1 tank 3 DPS scenario, there is of course no healer watching your HP bar which also completely changes the situation, and there I would also say you are free to do whatever you'd need to do to make the healing last!
Is that the ability that makes their HP drop to 1? Cuz if so, my buddy who Tanks always does that. Thankfully it’s not that hard to remedy. Depends on your Healer but I’m normally AST which has a 60 sec CD huge heal
It is also worth noting that some Dark Knights will stop using any actions at all while Walking Dead is active, and only use an AoE towards the end of its duration if they expect that to top them up, simulating a Warrior's Holmgang + Bloodwhetting. Of course this does mean that they're doing practically no damage for 10 seconds, but free mitigation is free mitigation. The thing to look for here is to see if they have topped themselves early or not after Walking Dead triggers.
That is actually quite an interesting trick I never considered! Partly because I don't think I trust healers to just do nothing when you're at 1 hp which could compromise the trick!
I cant believe no one ever made this video before but it is absolutely a video we have needed \o/ Even as a veteran player, I havent yet played all the tanks (I'm at 3/4) and even the ones I have tried I really only dabbled in but don't know very well. Great video! \o/
You are MY HERO! Liked! **Subscribed**!!! I've been a healer since beta testing FFXI. Yes, you read that right, BETA testing NA Final Fantasy ELEVEN. An Elvaan WHM (so smug about my high Mind, extra smug about my flawless MP management!). I SO needed your insights here, especially after taking time away from FFXIV for a while and just getting back into it! Now I have to go through your ENTIRE library of guides!! The way you explain things is so perceptive and easy to follow and go, "oh YA! I get it!" Thank you thank you THANK YOU!!
I started my FF14 journey as a Paladin, with a bit of Red Mage on the side, then shifted over to White Mage for my main healer (and main class), and then have since fallen in love with playing Warrior. It feels good to be able to do dungeons with basically 3 DPS. Would happily replace that green one with another red (with ress) if I could. I have also been called godtank more than once which does stroke my ego just a little. Overall, the guide is pretty good, and I will shunt it at a friend that is new to the game.
This is a great video! I’m a tank with 400+ hours of experience specifically as a tank and I just assumed healers already knew lmao. I main Warrior now and will be telling my healers not to worry about my aggressive play-style at the beginning of the dungeon as opposed to the end
As a healer main who knew nothing, the first time a tank used a macro to announce invul with a nifty countdown timer all I could think is "I know this is nice but what the heck does that mean? No heals until countdown is over? Save holy stuns for after? Are they going to need a lot of heals in a few seconds?" None of those were answered until I asked my fc later because dungeons aren't really the place for explanations. Same thing with walking dead, tank said they were going to use it and I had to ask if I needed to let them die lol.
I haven't really played tank at all since I capped them all at 90 but I still feel I know how they work better than the tanks I get paired with in Party Finder. Dark Knight in Expert roulette the other day didn't press a single defensive button once. No TBN, no Reprisal, not even an Arm's Length. Interesting video though, I'd love to see the reverse scenario next. There are a lot of tanks (like, most of them in roulettes) who need to understand that the healer is intentionally letting their HP drop because Essential Dignity and Benediction are better when they're lower, and that their HP amount is less of a bar with a full range and actually more like a binary value of either "0" (dead) or "1 or more" (alive).
I believe abyssal drain use to be a mana spender instead of a charged ability. It still healed but they took it away and put it on a charge instead. Wasn't a fan of this just like I wasn't a fan of them changing thin air into charges.
One thing I rarely see other players do in dungeons that I do a lot is using WHM Benediction regularly. Without the Blood Lily, the first priority for healing is Regen uptime (if necessary), Divine Benison if the content is at a high enough level, then ogcd (primarily Tetragrammaton and Benediction) before finally resorting to gcd healing. Using Benediction in dungeons as often as possible allows for more dps uptime as WHM, but it is a little hilarious to occasionally freak out the tank. I generally use it at 25% tank hp, accounting for potential latency and snapshotting.
Indeed, a trick like that could sometimes warrant a warning of its own, because some tanks go into danger mode by that point and start spamming defensives, or start running away even, if they don't know the healer is planning benediction 😅 I believe the trick is less common because many white mages really like to save bene as a last resort, and others simply don't feel like they need it when they have lilies and things like tetra 😊 naturally using all of your toolkit is always more efficient than sitting on something!
When I play WHM and plan to bene, I don't even look at the tank's health bar. I just watch and wait for the "panic wiggle" that occurs when the tank thinks he's going to die. I'm not evil, I just like to make sure my fellow gamers get some healthy heart rate elevation into their gaming sessions.
As a healer main with all tanks at 90, i still have trouble predicting what the tank is gonna do in dungeons, not because i dont know thier kit but because it feels like they dont know their own lol. Dark knights who never use tbn in dungeons where you at?
I think this is the single most important video i watched as a healer in the making. I was planning on leveling all tanks at some point to see what their abilities actually do, but this is immensely helpful until i get to investigate tank gameplay myself. Thanks for the great vid
I wish you were correct on GNB using Bolide. outside of a personal friend, I've never seen one in a roulette, let themselves get low first before using Bolide. They just pop it from 100% if they EVER use it. I'm sure there are others.. but I main heals :( it can't be that common if i don't see it much) maybe a Server behavior difference? I play on Jenova
I don't see gunbreakers use superbolide aggressively very much in general. However a *good* use of superbolide would be as described in the video at least 😂 i have seen it. But I have also seen your version, usually when a tank buster is coming. It's especially weird, when I know the tank buster does less than half their hp in damage 😂
As a gun breaker I do try to ensure that superbolide is typically the last resort clutch ability that appears when I realize two things: I'm about to die, and my healer has run out of fancy healing spells and has been reduced to using basic heals only while trying to weave in good heals quickly as they hit. I live for perfectly timed superbolides
Warrior main here! There is one uncommon but not insignificant thing about Holmgang worth mentioning. It can be used while targeting an enemy or while untargeted. And if the enemy its used on an dies the invulnerability effect ends instantly which can lead to the Warrior dropping suddenly. It's kinda funny when it happens tbh
This is true! Quite a weird interaction indeed! This is also why some warriors use a "target self" macro for Holmgang to be sure it doesn't ever happen! 😅 Although, a macro brings its own oddities in regards to needing to press the action more exactly when you can 😁
As a mainly dps player, I also love to play Tank and always make sure my healer is good to go or if they need help to make sure my cooldowns line up with pulls. I do this because I cant play Healer because I get panic attacks if I cant do the job right. So I massively respect them haha
hot tip, pick up at least one job per each role, the experience will give you a wider perspective overall about what the other players around you are doing, and in turn will make you a better healer that can work seamlessly with anyone
This is so helpful!! I am reaching a level where big pulls are more common + I am more comfortable with my job and can actually pay attention to what abilities tanks are using, so this came at a perfect time. I just have difficulty remembering the icons for abilities, but I suppose that will just come with experience and a little bit of memorisation on my part.
I am sure it will come with experience yes! 😊 You could also try and look up the actions of each tank, as the buffs often look similar to the actions themselves! 😁
I just discovered the “enmity gems” like a week ago when I was grinding up my squadron. (We did it, Flame Captain baby!) I sometimes find myself pressing my “engage” button when I’m on my white mage cause that’s what I used to level it to 50.
I have never had a gunbreaker use superbolide on purpose...it's always an accident and it always gives me a heart attack. They all apologize for it after the fact though XD. I think the biggest thing I've noticed as a healer is that at or bellow 50 Dark Knights aren't particularly sturdy tanks a lot of the time, so if you have a really greedy one things might get a bit crazy. Once I got used to that it got much easier to heal for them, but for a while seeing them as my tank would make me sweat a little. The other thing that stuck in my head a bit later on was that some warriors will start pulling more and more if they realize they can get away with it, it's only really noticeable at lower levels since they haven't reached peek healer masquerading as a tank yet. When I start branching out to the other healers (started as a scholar) I found it a bit difficult at first to go from a shield healer to a pure healer, the mind set is a little bit different, cause you don't really want to be too reactive on either or you'll fall behind, but it also felt harder to be proactive as well. I ended up gravitating towards Astrologian, cause something just didn't gel with me with white mage. Some of the initial difficulty might have just been not yet having a feel for the heals yet. (I pickedup sage yesterday and am having the same issue, just don't have a feel for the class, so it feels really difficult to heal with so far...and for some reason the leveling que keeps dumping me in higher level dungeons so I'm probably going to have to use my grand company squad to get into lower levels to get myself more familiar with all the buttons) I still have to kind of change how I think about things when I switch between scholar or astro, and will usually not play both in the same play session cause my muscle memory and timing gets thrown off.
Regarding the sage problem, I would simply recommend specifically queueing for lower level dungeons if you want that, instead of queueing leveling roulette and praying! 😅
@@CaetsuChaijiCh I will try that, usually it always puts me in the really low level dungeons, so I didn't expect it to start putting me in 45+ two times in a row. (my parties did not suffer for it at least so there's that)
Another point on DRK's TBN: it only lasts 7 seconds, and if they don't take enough damage for it to be completely depleted before it runs out, they both waste healing AND don't get the free use of their damage ability. That means if they're geared enough, they often won't use TBN alongside other mit because there's a chance it won't get fully used up. Also, Holy can be extremely frustrating, as the stun will sometimes waste an entire use of TBN, both negating their strongest mitigation tool and hurting their damage. PLD also has a strong low-level mitigation tool in Shield Bash, but like Clemency, it loses them damage. You sometimes see frightened PLDs rotating through targets with Shield Bash if they're scared their healer isn't healing them enough and they don't have Clemency yet.
As a WHM I just regen and sometimes shield if need be. Gives me the most uptime for dps. Same thing when a player gets smacked by something, regen and move on. If they get smacked twice Ill thrown down some petal heals and move on. Focusing on just healing when learning is class is absolutely fine. Once you learn the ins and outs of your healing class you know your windows better for dps. Only tank I ever struggle to heal most times has been Dark Knights due to their higher magic damage mitigation over natural defense.
As a whm main I like healing gunbreakers best. All they need is a regen tick, and a heal on tankbusters. The rest of the time I get to dps. I don’t get to dps as much with the other tanks except warrior. A regen is good for them lol.
Gunbreaker is more though then other Player think, GNB is for me on the same level like PLD in single target but he miss almost everything from his selfhealing in AoE.
My issue with invuls is most tank players treat them as oh shit buttons. its a tool like everything else I use them during pulls which will hurt a lot pop it once I stop and then everyone can dps like crazy meaning by the time it wears off most of the troublesome mobs should be dead. Im a healer main so normally I have an idea on which pulls hurt and which not so much
Yes yes yes, especially with the influx of WoW players, where mitigation buttons are intended to be “oh shit” buttons. Seems to take a while to break out of that mindset, heh.
Good info, though I'd say that Warrior is closer to the shield healers than White Mage. White Mage features very minimal shields in exchange for flat healing while Warrior has shields as well as healing; better shielding than Paladin in most respects and appears more regularly than Dark Knight. Paladin I'd say is closer to White Mage as it has a good deal of healing but doesn't have many shields, just like White Mage.
Then there was me in Abyssos; a DPS main who had to learn the rotation/combination of tank mitigations to teach tanks how to make the healers not hate them long term, and then learning how healers properly worked for their healing to be more efficient for the tanks. While learning the fight and learning/figuring out how I wanted to do calls. Fun times.
Given all those brutal dots especially in the savage version, I could absolutely imagine this! Although I really hope this was on normal if they tanks and healers needed that much help 😅
@@CaetsuChaijiCh It was, in fact, my static for Savage. We did finish Abyssos past the growing pains and most stayed together for Anabaseios. 8 week clear of Anabaseios vs Abyssos' 16 weeks, so it was worth it learn the ins and outs of most relevant jobs and teaching a friend from scratch. It made me a significantly more knowledgeable and flexible player compared to me in Asphodelos.
As someone who just got into FFXIV, I'm glad I watched this before getting too far in. I'm starting as Warrior and would 100% be the kind of person to try and "optimize" my self healing, so hearing that I'd only end up making my healer's job harder by doing that is something I'll keep in mind when I get to raid content.
Optimization is a lot about optimization! I am sure if your healer is aware of what you are doing, it is perfectly fine! I am glad you found this helpful!
I have to note this, it's happened to me and some friends a few times in the past, Superbolide has an additional downside that if it is cast it just as something hits you or just before(i'm not sure on the exact timing but it is really rare) you die as the effect isn't on you in time. As far as I can tell the squence of the effects are lower to 1 hp then apply invuln.
I don't think that's quite it, but you might be right, although I think it might be something else! You see, if an attack was initiated before you pressed superbolide, so the damage snapshot already happened, then the damage will be dealt regardless of what you do. Superbolide sending you to 1 hp means of course that attack will kill you as a result. This kind of order of actions stuff happens a lot in pvp, where for example you can see a summoner cast bahamut, and use guard (so you take 90% less damage), but even though bahamuts attack lands a good full second later, it still deals full damage. It is the same problem in your superbolide case I imagine. Which is really weird actually! I haven't seen that happen before, and given how easily this could happen, I can't imagine how it doesn't happen more frequently!
Oh I've been in parties in which Superboilde didn't trigger when popped and the gunbreaker died. I think there's a slight delay from pressing it. Might be the server delay giving them the finger.
@@CaetsuChaijiCh you could be right there, the hp drop is imidiate after all, but again i'm not sure it doesn't happen often enough for me to have an accurate understanding of how it occurs.
@IKMcGwee it is not uncommon for these things to happen if you invuln just before you are about to die. I do believe superbolide actually occurs like half a second after the animation begins, now that I think about it. This isn't uncommon and could even be a latency thing. It's the same problem also, as when white mages use benediction, heal goes through, and the tank dies anyway! 😅
Something I’ve liked to do as Drk is stagger pulling. I grab the first pack, pop TBN, and one TBN pops I move to the next pack. By the time I get to the next pack TBN is off cool down and I can do it again. Also, WHM, please hold off a little on Holy at the start of pulls, it can sometimes cause TBN not to pop.
Great video, very informative! While I have been healing for a long time, I never looked into some Tank abilities ("How tf does Living Dead work?!") so this was handy. I only have PLD and dabbled in WAR, though a friend who plays WAR has given me most of the lowdown. GBN and DRK stuff was good to know. All that said, as a SGE they get drip-healed no matter what most of the time. But I suppose I could, for example, use my Druochole-so-I-don't-cap-Addersgall on a DPS or myself if I notice some icons on the tank. This video can also be useful for Tanks, both for some tips on defensive cooldown management, as well as what to possibly expect your healer is thinking. Especially good are callouts when the big defensive CD is being used, doubly so for GBN and DRK. WAR a bit too.
Thank you so much! I'm glad you found it helpful! 😄 For the sage consideration, if you need the mp then using druochole on something can be fine, but if you don't actually need the mp and no one needs the healing there's nothing lost in sitting on three addersgall 😊 even if it feels so wrong to sit there on full resources! 😅
@@CaetsuChaijiCh Very true, yeah. I like to keep em cycled out of habit, in case I need a bunch of MP for oshit moments. With doing that and Lucid I usually am not below 60% MP. I still keep that "free Addersgall" button available too. I just like being extra prepared, since I've found SGE can have trouble if things hit the fan really hard. Maybe the tips from this video will help prevent those too!~
Healer pet peeve: Holmgang with no mit to deal with bleed or other status effects that last longer than holmgang. Because, sure, you don't die, but when the invuln is over, you end up taking CHUNKS of damage because the initial bleed wasn't mitigated. Like I get the benefit but I still hate it.
Yeah, this also applies for any other invulnerability, since you still take the full damage once the invulnerability ends. It is almost like the painful Bleed is there to tell you to not invuln it! xD
I'm a healer main but I never worry about any of these little intricacies. I never let my tank get so low that they freak out and using something like living dead. Also, no one ever complains about my healing management because I'm always helping with DPS whenever I'm not healing.
Indeed, a very good point. Some people find it more helpful than others. I mainly only adjust my play as a healer around warriors simply because of how strong bloodwhetting is. But still, it is helpful to know how, say, living dead works, when something goes wrong, and you can't keep them topped for whatever reason 😊
As a main tank I'll always in the first pull use Reprisal & Arm's Length and use that as a gauge to see how the healer reacts. This results in either 1. The healer will overheal because they didn't see me use mitigation (i.e. Rampart), or 2. They'll relax and notice that I have things under control.
Rules To Live By: Click the tank. Check their equipment. If their gear is at or slightly above the level of the dungeon, just treat them like they're new and heal hard. Hover over their buffs. You don't have to know names or icons, but if you read it and see "reduces damage" or "regenerates," they're an okay tank. Though if there are too many buffs, there's a setting that allows you to see up to 10 in the character config menu. Conversely this will also help you know who's blowing all their cooldowns too early. Lastly assume all warriors are Gigachads who don't need healing. 👍
Assuming all warriors don't need healing is also dangerous! 😅 I have genuine footage of a warrior that didn't use bloodwhetting very much to put it lightly! 😂 But the idea is good, which is also why many of my tips included watching for cooldown cycling! 😊
@asl9555 Oh no, it does. You just have to really know what you're doing. It ain't easy. You got that right. It sucks. It's not particularly fun. It's a pain in the ass, but if a tank only uses one singular cooldown per pull, I can handle the rest. Consistently. As long as they're not woefully undergeared, anyway and standing in every AOE. I can't tell you the amount of times I've healed a DRK who casually jogs through a dungeon and only hits the TBN button every now and then because they think it's the best ability ever. I don't mean to brag or say it's a good thing that they do this, but I AM saying that you have a lot of control as the healer, no matter how bad the tank is.
"When a Paladin have to use Clemency then something went terrible wrong, or there is nothing to attack.. sometimes both"^^ Maybe i dont notice it but it also good to know for Healer that Gunbreaker can use Heart of Corundum and also Aurora on other players, when im farming _the last extrem trial from Endwalker_ (dont want to spoiler) i dont know how many times i save some dps or healer that touch a toxic bubble by giving them Heart of Corundum But yeah its a cool video, reminds me of one dungeon run where a Healer get almost a heart attack because i drop to 1 Lifepoint as Gunbreaker :D
Friend of mine did that to me while I was leveling my first healer. I literally yelped in fear, and when he stopped laughing and explained himself I chewed him a new one for scaring me, lmao.
When I play WAR in level 90 dungeon content, I just wish healers would stop healing me at all. (Unless it's some free crap like Kardia or oGCDs) Every level 90 dungeon is possible to do with 1 WAR and triple DPS with even just a mediocre tank. (Hell, I'd wish they'd stop spot-healing me when I'm playing SAM and I'm intentionally taking vuln stacks because it gives me uptime and I know I can un-fuck myself with Bloodbath and Second Wind at no extra cost to the healer) I have so much mitigation on WAR that I end up over-mitigating a bunch of pulls just to show the newbie healer "See? It's not so scary. This is a safe place. You can let go of the GCDs now" Or to at least goad them into DPSing because a lot of DF healers are allergic to letting tank HP drop below 70% and won't DPS if that HP bar looks even remotely scary to them. There's on average about 1 pull per level 90 dungeon that necessitates the use of a Holmgang if there's no healer or no healing from a healer. I'd go so far as to argue that Sprint is a form of mitigation because it reduces that time between you pulling the first pack of mobs and arriving at the wall for that trash pull. This time is useless time because the DPS, for the most part, don't get to do meaningful DPS (IE: Reducing the amount of GCDs it takes to kill the whole trash pull). The faster they get started on doing their work, the less damage the tank has to take overall. Really wished more people would just press sprint. It's one (1) button. Nice guide, though. Plenty of "good enough" information that gets the point across without cluttering with tonnes of details that would be difficult to process for new healers. Any more in-depth than this and we're getting into speedrun and raid territory, which a player should be going out of their way to do their own research on at that point. (Should probably mention somewhere that this guide pertains only to dungeons and not much else. Just for the convenience of people looking this up.)
Thank you! Indeed, to your point in the parenthesis, this guide focuses mainly on dungeon pulls specifically because many of these differences in tanks are much more prominent and clear in dungeons, where in other content, it tends to be less of an issue. Or if need be, theres time to explain things! Also, Sprint is absolutely mitigation. I feel like that would be weird to mention in this guide, simply because the healers also have that. Although in a guide to tanks, it might be handier! :D
Try telling your healers not to heal you or not to heal unless you drop to a certain level when you start the dungeon. For every great self healing warrior there are about two hundred that don't use their self heals at all, or pop their defensives all at the same time if they get below 50 and then get mad at the healer for "not doing their job". I have had warriors wall to wall pull with 0 mitigation while sprinting and using gap closers out of my range of healing, then refuse to pull less when asked after the party wipe, then rage quit the dungeon after the third party wipe. It is much safer to hedge your bets and assume your tank is not a good tank.
I main as tank (pal and dk) so this was interesting to watch what it looks like from a healers perspective. I tried to play as a healer and found out that I dont like some tanks very much ;p
Playing a bit as a healer also helps you to understand what you would like to see from a tank which allows you to improve your tanking as well, so maybe seeing those bad tanks is a good thing in a way? 😅
As a tank main, I do this but backwards. When I have a WHM, I make sure not to use a strong mit at the start of the pull because the WHM probably wants to use Holy and Benediction. I may use Superbolide and Living Dead more liberally too. When I have SGE I try not to use barriers until later in the pull to make sure their Toxicon procs, and I try not to double mit since they often use taurochole and kerachole on cooldown.
One thing I keep seeing in dungeons is that mentally challenged gunbreakers will run into a blob of mobs with full HP and a bunch of regens/shields placed by the healers then they immediately hit superbolide, wasting 99.9% of their HP and the healer's buffs/resources.
Yeah that happens sometimes, but that one I attribute more to bad gunbreakers 😅 so if you see that in a dungeon, I recommend keeping an extra close eye on that tank, because they might not actually be great! 😅
i played white mage so i was always suprised when from nowhere tank hp dropped to 1 - taught me when i finally played tank to warn that i will use superbolide:D
I became a better healer when I started tanking, and became a better tank due to me being a healer main. It's super beneficial to play all the roles to understand what they all can and can't do.
And then there's me, giggling because I feinted the boss's attack so it didn't trigger TBN, knowing the Dark Night is kinda mad, but also can't get mad at me for using mitigation. :D
Bold of you to to assume dark knights even know what mitigation is. Hands down my least favorite tank to get in roulettes. Everything from popping walking dead at 80% when single pulling to trying to kitchen sink at 15% as they're trying to raw dog the mt gulg pull. Also I love how you never mentioned arm's length as most tanks seem to forget it exists XD
In fairness, a lot of tanks that even do know of arms lengths defensive value save it for far too long 😂 It is quite funny with dark knights, and also gunbreakers at times, that they seem far more likely to be played by players that really wanted a dps job rather than a tank 😅 fortunately not all of them!
@@CaetsuChaijiCh I for sure agree with the observations, Darks for me are the pits because when you get a bad Dark it's like the tank with the worst mitigation with the worst driver at the wheel. I've met a handful of darks in my travel that know their stuff, but they are a rarity compared to say warriors or paladins. Reminds me of the one time when I muttered under my breath they need to go back to dragoon and I died a little inside when I viewed their search info and dragoon was in fact their only 90 class >.>
I think the reason for that is DRK and GNB are usually picked up by people maining other jobs first, as opposed to people that started with PLD or WAR. DRK also has a higher skill floor, so you’re going to run into more that don’t know how to use CDs well vs other tanks.
The number of SCH's that heal for a DRK and forget about emergency tactics when the DRK doesn't get enough healing off their own attacks....or when GNB superbolides and the SCH suddenly needs to top them off... it converts the shield part of your next shield into healing.
I'd say the first thing to do as a healer is probably learn what the Icons for abilities are (Most likely by asking). That's what I did which helped me alot starting out. Learning what each invul looked like and what they did was a big boost. Also on DRK invul, I ended up making a text/sfx macro for it so you will see a text and hear a sound when activated which I'll pop around some low threshold. If the healer is healing aggressively for some reason then I just try to get hit by everything to pop it LOL, no pop? I guess we mittin lol. As for Abyssal, I use it after Rebirth is falling off to heal a hefty chonk back, that has been ideal for me. Also Hyper Potions are in the game now and heal for a ton, so they're really qol in dungeons, especially pre 70. All in all, Drk fun in dungeons! :D
Thank you very much. Dark knight has been the most awkward for me when healing. I haven’t played Dark Knight yet and Living Dead always seemed confusing (should I heal? Should I not?). Now it makes more sense.
Paladin here, mostly play with my friends so comunication isn't really an issue, but when we're running 8mans or alliance i like to play off-tank so i can effectivly drop clemencies on people my healer friends rez, to save them mana for things like mitigation, dps, or emergency oh-shit buttons. It's saved us a number of wipes because the healers could focus on getting people up on a near wipe while I slap them with heals.
As someone who changed jobs every expansion starting qs a tank doing all 3 dps and then ending on healer. I hated healing dark knights as a early lvl undergeared sage
Dark Knight tends to be the hard mode to heal because they need to work harder for the mitigation. That of course makes it even more tough if you are new to the healer you are playing! ^^'
Whenever I am playing WAR or WHM its always weird trying to figure out if the WHM will open the fight with holy spam and the WAR should save bloodwhetting until after all the stuns or vice versa
I regularly play warrior with a friend who prefers to play white mage. I concluded that opening with bloodwhetting, even if some of it goes to waste because of holy stuns, gives the white mage a safer opportunity to start their holy spam. You should have plenty of cooldowns to make it despite wasting some of that bloodwhetting as well, so I would simply not worry too much about that detail unless you know the white mage is totally confident in attacking even if you drop some in hp 😊
I have leveled all the tanks and healers. But it has been over a year since i did so. Outside Gnb, the tank i play 95% of the time, i could not tell you the what the other tanks did. The plethora of cds gnb has explains why i feel the most relaxed it instead of the other 3.
I don’t know if this changed with Endwalker or not, but if you use Cover before you pop Hallowed Ground, you can give protection to the Covered target. I did this in Shadowbringers on the last boss of Heroes Gauntlet to a Dragoon that dropped their meteor too close to mine. So, I did that to test if it would work and neither of us took damage from the impact.
As it stands right now, Cover's damage always passes through Hallowed Ground. However, I have heard other incidents where combining them sometimes allows you to bypass something deadly under weird circumstances despite this. (Usually that does involve the Paladin dying anyway though!)
I'm trying to figure out a good way to tell a healer I'm about to use Living Dead and how to get good use out of it. And if I'm a WHM and my tank is using their invuln, I probably want to avoid using Holy right? At least if I haven't applied the stun yet. So, should I be applying my DoT to enemies while I wait for the invulnerability to end?
Announcing you will use living dead in the next pull is a good starting point. If the healer knows what that means, great, if they don't, 15 seconds before you will use it is not the time for them to learn that 😅 so you just have to be okay with the fact some healers will ignore your announcement. On the holy thing: no absolutely not. Holy is used primarily for the damage, secondarily for the stun. If the tank uses an invuln before your stuns have taken their course, that's their mistake, they should know you have to cast holy for damage, and plan around it 😉 With a low enough target count where your dot could be just as good as holy, you can of course choose to use the dot instead while waiting it out, but simply put, the tank using invuln before your holy stuns have run their course is a bit comparable to a dark knight announcing their living dead intention, and the healer ignoring it 😊
Dumb question as someone not well versed on the balance philosophy of FFXIV: I just finished leveling DRK is there a reason abyssal drain has a cooldown 60 sec as apposed to 25-30? like I get TBN exist but you don't get that for a while when starting from 30 and having virtually no self sustain feels terrible. (sorry if this sounds like just complaints but I'm the type of person that finds it easier to deal with things when I have a rational to why something is the way it is.)
There isn't a particular reason for it. Dark knight happens to be the weakest of the tanks on self healing for some reason. I think the best explanation I can give is that as long as the tanks work okay in dungeons, and are somewhat equal in raids, then they are all fine. Which has led to dark knight being the hardest dungeon tank, and warrior being a demigod for some reason. I don't think there is a specific balance question to it, which makes it hard for me to give a clear or rational answer to you 😅
When I tank, and I know a large pull is coming up, I like to double check that my healer is up for it. If they agree, we make the run. Other than that, normal pulls and normal mits. I also try not to use Superbolide unless I genuinely need it, since I don't like giving my healers heart attacks if I can help it.
I main GNB, high level corrundum is by far my favorite cooldown, i use it on myself for defensive heals, and also to heal party memebers in savage to alleviate stress on healers
As DRK main, it's not too hard actually. Pop Living Dead if you want to not bother with mitigations during W2W is fine, especially at the start. For something spicier, Living Dead while you're near the source of the proximity AOE (though sometimes you can get away with less, depending on fight). Just remember that GCDs will heal, so just do your 1-2-3 or 1-2 AOE combo lol
Very few tanks I have run with in DF ever use Invuln except as a panic button. In some cases as a healer, I feel a bit offended like a slap in the face by an invuln use when it wasn't really necessary(More so than Celemency PLDs). Similarly, I'd rather keep the invuln for if I need it in most cases. Exceptions being specific pulls of various dungeons I know outright will be exceedingly tough, where wipes happen more often than usual. I also will use my invuln if I don't want to slow down, but just got through a pull where I used a lot of mits already, to keep the pace while waiting for the CDs to rotate out. As for while healing, I just use the first 2 pulls to get an idea of how much I need to care about the tank, regardless of the job. The only time I really start to even look at their defensive usage are when I am having to spam out Lustrate or something to keep them up. If the tank is even half decent, Excog, plus fairy AOE, and Soil typically are all I need. Maybe a lustrate if the fight is long. Otherwise, Green DPS it is. When I was leveling RDM a long time ago, I had no personal sense of how healing in 14 worked compared to WoW, and letting HPs get a little lower, and I would top off tanks with vercure a lot. I remember distinctly a tank getting miffed at the healer over me doing it, when realistically I was the one in the wrong overall, asking them why I was having to heal him instead of DPS. That WHM was actually fine, they had Bene primed, etc. I was just a paranoid DPS that liked to support a lot.
I had a returner warrior in Akadaemia Anyder that used Holmgang once, shake it off like 3 times, and Vengeance once immediately after they popped Holmgang... My DPS was in the hole because I couldn't cast holy more that once or twice a pull. I've tanked that as Warrior, and I usually start pulls with vengeance and either Arm's Length or Reprisal, then I pop the other with Rampart. Usually my combo healing and MAYBE Thrill of Battle or Raw Intuition with those CDs.
That random warrior certainly was doing it weird. However I can recommend to you: just start with raw intuition. It alone should keep you alive on aoe. After it runs out, you should consider other cooldowns like vengeance 😊 which then will last long enough to use raw intuition shortly after again! 😁 Of course how much you need between raw intuitions can vary, but raw intuition itself heals for so much, that it is on the verge of being equivalent to an invulnerability, on aoe! 😊
@@CaetsuChaijiCh the frustration with that warrior was that wasn’t per pull. That was the whole dungeon. But thanks for the tip! I’ll try it next time I run Warrior.
The amount of times I've pressed bene 3 frames before the GNB uses bolide is almost as many as the times I've seen a PLD using clem on himself at 75% health. Which is to say, a lot. Just saying "invuln this pull" is a gigantic help. I know a good tank when I can pop a regen or two on him and just DPS the rest of the pull.
As a warrior main, I usually just ignore Holmgang in EW dungeons completely, unless it's really needed because the dps are doing so little damage that the healer is obviously struggling to keep me alive during that 5 minute trash pack fight. In my opinion, invulns just confuse healers more than they help. Newer healers won't understand what's going on and the rest can heal me easily anyways. Lower lvl dungeons get a bit more complicated as the kits worsen for both, the tank and the healer, but once you have Bloodwhetting there is really no point in using Holmgang in dungeons aside from "cause I can" and "welp, my team is dead and I feel like soloing the boss".
Yeah I tend to have a similar experience: while using Holmgang might be more efficient use of cooldowns, it just feels like more effort than it is worth to force it to be helpful 😊
@@CaetsuChaijiCh Agreed. Sometimes playing optimally yourself is just making it harder on everyone else. I do it when I see that everyone is on the same page trying for super quick clear times, but if I'm really pressed for using invuln in order to clear at all......I just shorten the pull. Too many ppl think it's w2w or nothing. If ppl are having a rough time, just pull less and let everyone chill. It's just dungeons.......not like you have to hit enrage or get logs.
As a GNB main, I do not need any healing in Endwalker dungeons to recover from Superbolide, so just dont waste your Benes on me unless its con cooldown. Corundum + Aurora gives me 1700 potency of healing, + passive regen (yes, you do heal in combat. IIRC its 1% of max hp every 3 seconds, vs. out of combat's 10%/3s; In current gear I should be healing around 1,160 hp periodically, but know that each mobs autos hover around 7-9k and are more frequent than regen is) and another 200 pot heal after the invuln ends. And its worth noting that Catharsis can *crit*. Corundum does not trigger off of receiving *damage*, it only looks at your HP value, so if youre out of combat and missing 51-99% of your HP, casting Corundum will immediately trigger it; more relevantly, this means that having it when or using it after Superbolide will instantly pop the burst heal as I hit 1 HP. its for this reason I have Bolide, Corundum, and Aurora all going at the same time whenever Im using my invuln. As Aurora has multiple charges at high levels, it is beneficial to me to keep it running regularly so I dont overcap, and Corundum, Camoflauge, and Ramparts combined have short cooldowns and high uptime so I lose next to nothing this way, while also keeping my healers safe from cardiac arrest
Indeed! The only real reason for the healer to be concerned when the gnb superbolides is that not all gunbreakers actually remember to heal themselves afterwards! 😂
On the other hand, using corundum to heal in bolide means you're completely missing its mitigation aspect - IMO it's better to use it before bolide, to have more time before you drop yourself to 1 HP, and then it'll be soon off cooldown after your invuln ends
@@nospoilerit's true I lose mit if I heart after bolide but it's a 25 second cool down so I generally don't give it much thought since I'll probably follow up bolide with camo or rampart anyways
If you're a White Mage and the tank is a Dark Knight don't start the Holy spam on trash pulls if Darkest Night is up, wait for it to break, spread Aero/Dia until it breaks, then start spamming it. It might hurt your personal DPS, but the overall damage of the party as a whole will be slightly higher. I have a friend who's a Dark Knight main, and I'm a White Mage main, and we're usually on Discord while playing together, so we've done all the math, and unless everything is already stun immune it's anti-synergy if it keeps Darkest Night from breaking, or slows it's breaking. Aero/Dia's lack of cast time keeps you mobile while waiting for TDN to break and still applying the pain. I have comms with my friend so I can start casting Holy before it breaks with knowledge it will break before it goes off, but this requires either a very sharp eye on the shield or verbal comms, if you don't have either wait for the buff to drop.
![[FFXIV] How Healers Work But From a Tank's Perspective](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/PNhWwTHjXCU/mqdefault.jpg)
![[FFXIV] How Healers Work But From a Tank's Perspective](/img/tr.png)
![[FFXIV] Five Mistakes Tanks Make!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zu7l-S6Rvpw/mqdefault.jpg)
"To be a good healer you should play as tank too, and to be a good tank you should play as a healer too" while I think that advice still hold, this video is a really good subtitute for that since it's not feasible for everyone to play multiple jobs. Another great video!
Also great advice! I also realize probably many healers already have played a tank and so might not need this video. But hey, maybe this alternative perspective still adds something! 😊
Thank you!
@@CaetsuChaijiCh Haha It really does add something for me. I completely forgot how HoC heal work, since GNB is my least played tank. I somehow assumed it was a regen like Holy Sheltron. Hahaha.....
💯 My mains are WHM and WAR but I've leveled all of them. It gives you insights to the job if you're actually the type of person to try to understand their tool kits.
if they are too busy trying to do damage to mitigate themselves do you really want to put another tanks lives in their hands as a healer?
@@CaetsuChaijiCh bro, you taught me how Living Dead works xD And I play DRK, though I'm a SCH main. That wall of text..
Fair warning to any healer that heals a tank in the 50-60s range that is down-synced is that you somtimes get someone that thinks he is invincible because of cds he no longer has. I think that healing is hardest with newer players in whateversburg lvl 50 (hard) dungeons because of this.
Oh yeah that's a good one too 😅
It gets extra hectic if you accidentally try to use a healing cooldown you also don't have for the same reason 😂
I have been guilty of trying to use invuln in pre 50 dungeons
@@CaetsuChaijiCh That panic you feel in your gut when the buttons do nothing? That's the same feeling you feel when you know you are being hunted. It's some primal shit, to be a healer.
I just had a DRK who never popped anything, they only had tank stance... idk why? did they level skip?
I'd like to apologize for I was one of these tanks before RI should be a lvl 1 skill this is my totally non bias take
Thank you for this! Often as a healer, I get the impression that Tanks believe you should know all the abilities in THEIR job as well as my own. I will eventually, and am trying to get better, but jeez no need to scream at me about it
Indeed, the classic example is with living dead, but just generally it does seem to be the case that it is assumed everyone just knows about tank toolkits! 😅
Thank you!
Tanks without patience are a bummer! I love being part of a team and there's something satisfying about putting my life in someone's hands and working as a full group to overcome. It's thrilling!
My "favorite" tanks are the ones that never stop running, don't know their own limits and get confused when they aren't receiving heals cause the rest of the party no longer has line of sight on them.
I've only had one, ONE, tank that stopped before a w2w, said "I'm going to superbolied this pull" got confirmation from us all, and preceded as such.
I mean, knowing the big important skills on every other job is important as a player in this game in general. It lets you adjust more quickly to what your random group has (to use a dps example I have seen more than once from every role in the game, it keeps you from being a dick to a Red Mage who just isn't at Rez Mage levels yet), and since as a healer you're going to be dealing with all four invulns a lot it's a good idea to have a basic idea of how all the invulns function, even if it's just at the most basic level.
Now, obviously decently knowing *every* job off the top of your head is an ideal and not something most people can do, but it does genuinely help tactics to have a vague idea of what people are capable of at various levels-if you have a tank that stubbornly wants to pull big in Stone Vigil when your DPS consists of two dragoons, you should expect difficulty in keeping them alive purely because the aoe damage output just isn't there yet. Keeping what people can do in your group in mind is part of being a good player of any role.
Something not mentioned during the GNB invuln is White Mages Benediction. The Bene-Superbolide meme is nearly as well known as the floor tank Dragoon, and that as a GNB, if you have a Whm heal, you -really- need to communicate if you're planning on using Superbolide, otherwise they will throw their cane at you after you superbolide right as they cast benediction.
Haha that's true! And that cane skips invuln for certain! 😂
if ur a whm and using bene as a main heal.. that is just giving your tank anxiety.
@@azadalamiqIf you are not giving your tank Anexiety you are wasting Healer DPS uptime.
@@azadalamiq Bene can be super-efficient, though. I don't normally bother trying to communicate things in roulettes, but when playing with a friend as WHM-tank combo it wasn't uncommon to plan Benes
@@Uwawa96I have seen WHM described as "playing How Low Can You Go with the tank's hp bar before casting Bene" which is absolutely 100% the best way to give tanks anxiety xD
Watching the GNB explanation on superbolide made me remember the meme of WHM using Benediction just before the GNB hits superbolide without advicing the intent.. I have gone thru that one a lot when playing healer.. I used to panic back then, now I laugh and drop MedII, regen and goodluck to all of us 🤣
Ah yes, the hidden passive of gunbreaker where they automatically superbolide when you benediction! 😅
I managed that once in lightspeed i literally use Superbolide _one frame_ after i get Benediction like almost at the same time but in the wrong order :D
Recently ran a dungeon as GNB, did a huge pull, ran out of cool downs and waited for just the right moment to bolide. The WHM cast Benediction just as I clicked the button to superbolide, and all I could do was laugh it off lmao
As someone who plays healer a lot, there are 2 types of warriors:
>Unkillable tanks that don't need no healer
>They take everything raw, not even popping bloodwhetting/raw intuition and needing to be babysit the entire time
Unfortunately, I find the latter is more common in roulettes.
I can kind of vouch for the 2nd type. I had a warrior not use ANY mitigation until I pointed it out, in which case they did actually started using RI. The warriors I tend to run into as a healer have been mostly decent( not unkillable, but I had no problems with healing them). I've been trying to get a healer glam from Azadaal's Legacy these past few days and gun breakers have been the hardest to heal and I can coast when it's a warrior.
I'm sorry for doing that, but I am WAR, not PEACE
@@Feuerhamster no, if ur nr2 ur just DEAD
I always just assume the healer knows I'm a warrior. But everytime they show that they don't by already spamming heals when I've only lost 20k HP, I go ahead and let them think they have to suffer. Your best bet as a healer is to NOT PANIC. Always assume they are the unkillable type. 😅
@@anjoumaakait's all fun and games to let the tank eat some damage until they're halfway down their HP so you start healing them and notice the damage is outpacing the heals+regen because they pulled w2w and WON'T MOVE AWAY OUT OF THE AOES!
Great video! you could probably do a "How Healers work But From a Tank's Perspective".
Sometimes healers have certain quirks that make certain pulls sometimes weird, but interesting and fun in a way. WHMs have Holy that causes a stun to any pack in it's range which can be spammed (I consider Holy almost like another form of mitigation when you are not getting hit in a dungeon pack) with a bit of downsides to where you have to work around it and time things. For example, when a WHM spams Holy early on, I seen tanks unfortunately waste Bloodwhetting while the mobs are stunned, or a DRK's TBN didn't break because they are stunned and when the pack is finally immune to stun, the tanks go-to bits is on cooldown. I'm sure it's not a huge deal since most dungeon mob packs are not immensely dangerous and maybe the general tank population are probably used to just going standard approach, but still helps out in a way for anyone to take advantage of a healer's movekit on maximizing cooldowns and the output. I sometimes like to time Holy during it's diminishing returns for when the mobs are now immune to stun so that I can go to town with Bloodwhetting etc.
There's also other ones like SCH's Excog or SGE's Haima where I like to see those pop first so that the rest of the tanks cooldowns flows smoothly.
I did consider the alternative combination video, but I felt most of the things to watch out for would be white mage quirks 😅(holy, asylum dome placement, benediction, and greeding extra on damage), but you're not the first to suggest this. I might see if I can make such a guide 😊
As a warrior player myself, I tend to use bloodwhetting despite white mage holy because I've seen white mages hold back on attacking to top me up first otherwise. I won't be missing the cooldown, since the holy stuns were extra mitigation I never planned for anyway, just to give a perspective! 😊
Considering the healers options is a great idea though as a tank!
@@CaetsuChaijiCh I agree! I still tend to use bloodwhetting during those moments where I just go "Oh WHM! ehhh... we are still good xD"
Yes please!
Holy only stuns twice. Casting it more than that is worthless. Cast twice then prep to heal. Too many whites forget or don't pay attention to the fact stun immunity is a thing, as is stun reduction. SOME enemies you can stun 3 times with holy. The 3rd stun lasts like half a second.
@@Nempo13 just cause the stun is no longer effective doesn't mean its worthless. healer DPS is important in reducing the time it takes for a pull to end
Learning far too late that letting my health drop to half before hitting my Raw Int/Bloodwhetting is causing all kinds of panic. Even having leveled a few healers to max already, somehow my brain didn't think that there were healers who just weren't sure what I was doing when I was letting that happen. I've done it without thinking for so long! Thank you for the very necessary perspective my brain needed to hopefully cause less freakouts in the future. Healers have it hard enough already... orz
It may be worth noting how depending on what healer you are, tanks will react differently. Particularly for AST; waiting to get the most out of ED often scares them, and they're often not aware of your Earthly Star cooking in the background.
This is true. Indeed, for both ast and whm, letting your tank drop really low to get the most out of Ed or bene can have a weird panic effect on the tank, which is basically the reverse of when the tank decides to use nothing so they drop low to invuln 😅
You also have to consider personal experience too, I've had many bad experiences with White Mages due to trying to let me get too low, and then, me going down before their benediction comes out, I don't think I've ever really experienced anything similar with any other healer class, it's only ever White Mage. It often leaves me being a bit more trigger happy with Superbolide around white mages, and then like, never having to touch it for any other of the healers. On the other hand I've teamed with so many good astros at this point that I just don't... Panic at low HP anymore with them due to how well those Astros were at keeping me standing.
Thanks for this! I’m trying to unlearn some bad healing habits, and I’ve run into some unexpected situations where the tank just…magically healed themselves from my POV.
If I could offer a suggestion, though (which might just be me):
Because I’m so unfamiliar with other classes, when you say to keep an eye on the tank’s buffs, I’m not actually sure which buff icons I should be looking for. Thankfully you have other guides that go into tank abilities and show what it looks like on the party list when certain actions are taken, so I’ve been cross-referencing this with your other guides, but some kind of highlight around the buffs under discussion would have helped me to better understand what to look for. It’s a minor issue, though, since your other videos make it easy to find out that information elsewhere, so thanks for those as well!
Thank you! Yeah I sort of realized that later down the line, that obviously not everyone is aware of what the icons of each defensive cooldown is for each tank, and I was very focused on the invulnerabilities in that regard ^^ Thank you for the suggestion!
Today, for the first time ever, I had a tank stop and announce that they were using a cooldown on the next pull. NGL, I don't really know what I was meant to do because I don't know how the tank invulns wor exactly, I just got my benediction finger ready... they popped it too late, and I didn't bene them in time, and we wiped, but our second run worked out. As a white mage I'm just out there trying to keep you from hitting zero as you run away. I should maybe learn what all the invuln buffs look like on the party list, because it would probably be nice to know I worked well with the tank and their cooldowns. This video was exactly what I needed, thank you.
I'm glad my video happened to come out right at the right time! Good thing your group figured it out the second time around at least!
Great concept for a vid. I try to announce all of my intentions, especially pulls i intend to use invuln but it's clear once the pull starts and I'm getting healed through my inv as a war i know the healer either didn't see or didn't understand what i said
Yeah, unfortunately if the healer doesn't know, explaining in detail what you expect of them simply is too long of a message for them to read, so all you can do is hope they know 😕
As a tank, this video is still really useful for me! Healers are the one keeping me alive, so proper communication (both spoken and unspoken) will go a long way.
This video also made me realize that invuln skills like Living Dead aren't just desperation moves against bosses, but are also really useful for harsh wall-to-wall pulls. The 3.5 MSQ dungeon, for example, has a *lot* of enemies in its first area, so when I tried going for a W2W for the first time, it caused a wipe. If I knew to use Living Dead, and properly conveyed this to my healer, I think we could've actually taken that W2W pull. (And since it was the first area, the 300 second cooldown would've finished earlier, just in case I needed Living Dead again.)
I'm glad to hear that! And indeed, using living dead as a resource can be incredibly helpful in hard pulls! 😊
as a former wow player, it was hard to learn to switch the mentality from panic "must save this just in case i need it later" buttons to "plan to use this in your rotation on purpose" buttons. The thing I tell people now is "you have the button, use it"
and honestly, it has really helped. both in reducing the number of times I've been put into a panic situation by straight up avoiding the situation, but also using the buttons more often give me a better muscle memory / reaction time to where the button is when things hit the fan. but also, helping me stay calm and feeling in control when things go sideways, because I know my toolkit and how to use it and how to react quickly and get us back on track.
like before, a lot of times i would panic and find myself lost on what to do, and hitting all the buttons and finding the one i need too late or sometimes not even sure how to save the situation. and after the wipe thinking, "man if i had just done x, we probably would have lived" similarly to your thoughts about using LD on that pull.
i know a lot of the cool downs seem long when just looking at the raw number of seconds. but this video does a great job of explaining the timing on a lot of them. and having that in mind really helped me plan out CDs for dungeons. and each dungeon is a little different, with some pulls being harder than others, making which pull to use which CDs more important.
While we're sharing things most people probably don't know, something for the tanks reading this. Did you know that Arms Length is a defensive cooldown in mob pulls?
It gives enemies slow, which doesn't work vs bosses, but reduces attacks by 20%, effectively another mitigation to add to your rotation.
Indeed! It is quite effective for a cooldown a lot of people forget about!
A good Tank always use Arms Length on big pull but also Reprisal is literally a mitigation on big pulls because all adds doing 10% less damage^^
There is zero proof of that in game no ssugn on the mobs or bosses name.
@anteprs7908 are you talking about arms length? It says the slow effect in the second half of it. And while bosses are immune to it, most regular mobs get a generic slow debuff from it which Indeed makes them take 20% longer between each swing 😊
@@CaetsuChaijiCh it say but all effect show up in the name of npc at least effect over time like with most dots or mits you can see them on ,but arms length only show up on thr chr that uses it and show the knockback effect .
Heart of corundums icon is just Ash from evil dead yelling about his boomstick.
Imo tanking is the role with the most "unspoken rules" and is the most behavior/strategy heavy role. I recently found a guide about off-tanking where he explained how various tank/boss interactions work, and there was so much stuff I didnt know. For healers and dps, it's enough to just know how your kit works and interacts with itself, but for a tank there are so many more points about how you interact with bosses, enemies, other tanks and more to set everything up for your team. Tanking is the hardest role to learn because it's hard to find the information to teach yourself in the first place.
This is very true. Tanks also deal with a lot of less specific rules like positioning just to name one. And because the role is defensive in nature, it can be hard to even make a guide that applies for everything, since optimally you have to adjust to every fight case by case!
I half agree. The upfront learning curve is big, but once you get past that, it's probably the easiest role to play.
On another hand, healing is a tossup because its difficulty depends on how many mistakes are made; teammates dying eats up your MP for reviving, and you dying makes your own healing weaker upon being revived.
The hardest role, actually, is dps. You can't self-heal or raw hp/mit through mistakes, and your rotation is the hardest, so you are least able to focus on other players.
@iPlayOnSpica hahaha, now we're looping back to caiji's video on job difficulty for various types of players. That's how you know the man makes good content! At the time of writing this, it hasn't even been 24 hours since I finished the base end walker msq, and I haven't even started post-ew yet. 4 jobs are lvl 90 for me, so for someone well established in the raiding scene I can see how dps would be the hardest job to play once it's been learned.
Tbh Tank is mostly.. hard to learn but easy to master, sure many player also scared about tanking because _you are the leader of the group_ and not experience Tanks are also often the target for rude players, because many player dont care when you dont have a good dps rotation (in casual content) BUT.. when you fuck up something as tank _everyone sees it_
Its literally the opposite of a dps job.. dps is literally easy to learn because casual content has barely dps checks but when you go in the "Hardcore" Content?.. oh boi i hope you learn your rotation.
@@kohlicoide2258 tbh, as tank main... Yea. Most difficult part for me is to switch my muscle memory between WAR and DRK (as I've cleared the entirety of savage Anabaseios as DRK, and Abyssos as WAR), but the defensive part is quite standardised per se, with a couple of quirks like when is actually a good time to use Vengeance, or Dark Mind, etc.
I know this is aimed at healers, but as someone more freshly coming into tanking, this had some good info for me on that front as well. Some how no one, not even my friend, had told me yet it is best to start with your short mit, then cycle to long, then back to short. I will be keeping that in mind next time I play my tank.
I'm glad you found that tip helpful! 😊 I hope you continue to enjoy your journey mastering tanking! 😄
I never knew this either, my tank friend that I healed for told me use your longest cooldown first so it’s back up for the next pull. O.o
As one of the Warriors that "don't need no healer" I can say with absolute certainty that if I wasn't "this stingy with said healing" then I would, in fact, be a warrior that needs a healer. A lot of the time the reason you hold out on using Bloodwhetting is to offset the cooldown so its up again when you need it, especially if its the 2nd pull when your Vengeance is on cooldown.
This is less true if your in full BIS (or just generally overgeared for a dungeon) but even then it still holds water for some dungeons. And this is **always** true if your doing a 3dps 1tank dungeon run.
That is a fair point. In my experience, I typically have plenty of resources to work with when I am tanking as warrior, that I can spend Bloodwhetting quite early in a pull and still be fine regardless of what the healer chooses to do.
The primary reason I advice against sitting on Bloodwhetting like this, is specifically because when it scares the healer, the healer is more likely to spend more resources rather than less, which is the exact opposite of what you intended to do.
In a real situation, there is of course also a far greater chance that the logical time to use bloodwhetting is when youve lost a bit of HP. But there is also a massive difference between using Bloodwhetting at 100% (Which is technically sort of what I am suggesting in the video I will admit xD), 80%, 50%, and 20% (which tends to be where a lot of healers start panicking a lot, if they didn't already start panicking earlier than that)
And when your healer starts panicking, they start wasting resources. Whether that resource is casting Cure 2, or tossing 2 or 3 oGCDs that you didn't actually want can vary from healer to healer. Problem being is that at 20%, if YOU don't do anything about it by then, then if the healer doesn't you die. And then they risk a tank blaming the healer for not healing them. So if you wait too long, and the healer has to act, they will ^^
In a 1 tank 3 DPS scenario, there is of course no healer watching your HP bar which also completely changes the situation, and there I would also say you are free to do whatever you'd need to do to make the healing last!
Me as a WAR tank learning GNB, accidentally putting Superbolide on my hotbar in the wrong place, and giving my healer a heart attack.
Is that the ability that makes their HP drop to 1? Cuz if so, my buddy who Tanks always does that. Thankfully it’s not that hard to remedy. Depends on your Healer but I’m normally AST which has a 60 sec CD huge heal
this is going to help me play tank better as well, thank you for this video!
I'm glad you found it helpful! Thank you! 😁
Wait, you mean most healer mains don’t max out and gain a passable understanding of all other tank and healer jobs in the name of better synergy?
I know, quite a shocking revelation if I said so myself! 😂
Speaking of the aggressive invuln, gotta love the "I'm at 100%, popping superbolide". Yeah thanks man saved me a lot of healing.
It's extra funny when it's used to block something like a tank buster which was absolutely not going to do that much damage anyway! 😂
Me and my faerie in tears seeing that I just used my good single heals on him.
@@CaetsuChaijiCh *sighs in Savage and Ultimate raids*
But yea in most situations, invulns are not required lol (barring really wild circumstances)
A test of your reflexes!
It is also worth noting that some Dark Knights will stop using any actions at all while Walking Dead is active, and only use an AoE towards the end of its duration if they expect that to top them up, simulating a Warrior's Holmgang + Bloodwhetting. Of course this does mean that they're doing practically no damage for 10 seconds, but free mitigation is free mitigation. The thing to look for here is to see if they have topped themselves early or not after Walking Dead triggers.
That is actually quite an interesting trick I never considered! Partly because I don't think I trust healers to just do nothing when you're at 1 hp which could compromise the trick!
wait, I'm a drk main. Why would you ever stop using actions while walking dead is up? There is no downside to keeping your AoE going.
I cant believe no one ever made this video before but it is absolutely a video we have needed \o/ Even as a veteran player, I havent yet played all the tanks (I'm at 3/4) and even the ones I have tried I really only dabbled in but don't know very well. Great video! \o/
Thank you so much! I'm certainly glad so many have found it helpful, too! 😄
You are MY HERO! Liked! **Subscribed**!!! I've been a healer since beta testing FFXI. Yes, you read that right, BETA testing NA Final Fantasy ELEVEN. An Elvaan WHM (so smug about my high Mind, extra smug about my flawless MP management!). I SO needed your insights here, especially after taking time away from FFXIV for a while and just getting back into it! Now I have to go through your ENTIRE library of guides!! The way you explain things is so perceptive and easy to follow and go, "oh YA! I get it!"
Thank you thank you THANK YOU!!
Thank you so much! That means a lot to me! 😄
And welcome back to ffxiv! I hope you enjoy your return! 😁
I started my FF14 journey as a Paladin, with a bit of Red Mage on the side, then shifted over to White Mage for my main healer (and main class), and then have since fallen in love with playing Warrior. It feels good to be able to do dungeons with basically 3 DPS. Would happily replace that green one with another red (with ress) if I could. I have also been called godtank more than once which does stroke my ego just a little.
Overall, the guide is pretty good, and I will shunt it at a friend that is new to the game.
This is a great video! I’m a tank with 400+ hours of experience specifically as a tank and I just assumed healers already knew lmao. I main Warrior now and will be telling my healers not to worry about my aggressive play-style at the beginning of the dungeon as opposed to the end
I'm glad you found it helpful! 😄
And that is an excellent idea! I hope it works well!
As a healer main who knew nothing, the first time a tank used a macro to announce invul with a nifty countdown timer all I could think is "I know this is nice but what the heck does that mean? No heals until countdown is over? Save holy stuns for after? Are they going to need a lot of heals in a few seconds?" None of those were answered until I asked my fc later because dungeons aren't really the place for explanations. Same thing with walking dead, tank said they were going to use it and I had to ask if I needed to let them die lol.
I haven't really played tank at all since I capped them all at 90 but I still feel I know how they work better than the tanks I get paired with in Party Finder. Dark Knight in Expert roulette the other day didn't press a single defensive button once. No TBN, no Reprisal, not even an Arm's Length.
Interesting video though, I'd love to see the reverse scenario next. There are a lot of tanks (like, most of them in roulettes) who need to understand that the healer is intentionally letting their HP drop because Essential Dignity and Benediction are better when they're lower, and that their HP amount is less of a bar with a full range and actually more like a binary value of either "0" (dead) or "1 or more" (alive).
Thank you! And those are some good ideas to consider for such a video 😊
Bit of a side tangent... abyssal drain should heal for a lot more and it should be on at most a 45 second cool down. 60s is just too long.
I think it could also help with an extra charge, so you can more easily delay the second use for when you need it 😅
@@CaetsuChaijiCh Oh true! Either way, I think it needs to be decoupled from Carve and Spit and thought of as a defensive instead of an offensive.
I believe abyssal drain use to be a mana spender instead of a charged ability. It still healed but they took it away and put it on a charge instead. Wasn't a fan of this just like I wasn't a fan of them changing thin air into charges.
@@ninponighthawk thin air being changed to single use/charges definitely reduced its flexibility, yeah.
@@Scerttle thin air + presence of mind into holy spam use to trivialize mobs. Peak whm
One thing I rarely see other players do in dungeons that I do a lot is using WHM Benediction regularly. Without the Blood Lily, the first priority for healing is Regen uptime (if necessary), Divine Benison if the content is at a high enough level, then ogcd (primarily Tetragrammaton and Benediction) before finally resorting to gcd healing. Using Benediction in dungeons as often as possible allows for more dps uptime as WHM, but it is a little hilarious to occasionally freak out the tank. I generally use it at 25% tank hp, accounting for potential latency and snapshotting.
Indeed, a trick like that could sometimes warrant a warning of its own, because some tanks go into danger mode by that point and start spamming defensives, or start running away even, if they don't know the healer is planning benediction 😅
I believe the trick is less common because many white mages really like to save bene as a last resort, and others simply don't feel like they need it when they have lilies and things like tetra 😊 naturally using all of your toolkit is always more efficient than sitting on something!
You know what, you make us locate mitigation combos we never would otherwise. Little panic makes us learn.
When I play WHM and plan to bene, I don't even look at the tank's health bar. I just watch and wait for the "panic wiggle" that occurs when the tank thinks he's going to die.
I'm not evil, I just like to make sure my fellow gamers get some healthy heart rate elevation into their gaming sessions.
As a healer main with all tanks at 90, i still have trouble predicting what the tank is gonna do in dungeons, not because i dont know thier kit but because it feels like they dont know their own lol. Dark knights who never use tbn in dungeons where you at?
Yeah those dark knights are quite a hoot! :/ But very understandable. After all, you can only plan for people who are predictable in a way!
I think this is the single most important video i watched as a healer in the making. I was planning on leveling all tanks at some point to see what their abilities actually do, but this is immensely helpful until i get to investigate tank gameplay myself. Thanks for the great vid
I'm glad you found it so helpful! Thank you so much! 😄
I wish you were correct on GNB using Bolide. outside of a personal friend, I've never seen one in a roulette, let themselves get low first before using Bolide. They just pop it from 100% if they EVER use it. I'm sure there are others.. but I main heals :( it can't be that common if i don't see it much) maybe a Server behavior difference? I play on Jenova
I don't see gunbreakers use superbolide aggressively very much in general. However a *good* use of superbolide would be as described in the video at least 😂 i have seen it. But I have also seen your version, usually when a tank buster is coming. It's especially weird, when I know the tank buster does less than half their hp in damage 😂
I have my own Superbolide Warning Macro its legit "I will soon use Superbolide! (I will drop to 1 DONT PANIC!)" :D
As a gun breaker I do try to ensure that superbolide is typically the last resort clutch ability that appears when I realize two things: I'm about to die, and my healer has run out of fancy healing spells and has been reduced to using basic heals only while trying to weave in good heals quickly as they hit.
I live for perfectly timed superbolides
Warrior main here! There is one uncommon but not insignificant thing about Holmgang worth mentioning.
It can be used while targeting an enemy or while untargeted. And if the enemy its used on an dies the invulnerability effect ends instantly which can lead to the Warrior dropping suddenly. It's kinda funny when it happens tbh
This is true! Quite a weird interaction indeed! This is also why some warriors use a "target self" macro for Holmgang to be sure it doesn't ever happen! 😅 Although, a macro brings its own oddities in regards to needing to press the action more exactly when you can 😁
As a mainly dps player, I also love to play Tank and always make sure my healer is good to go or if they need help to make sure my cooldowns line up with pulls. I do this because I cant play Healer because I get panic attacks if I cant do the job right. So I massively respect them haha
It's always a good thing to respect every role, that way, you Will also play better in a way! 😄
hot tip, pick up at least one job per each role, the experience will give you a wider perspective overall about what the other players around you are doing, and in turn will make you a better healer that can work seamlessly with anyone
Thank you for this! \o/ I know you explained it to me on the stream but this is great for referencing back!
I'm glad you found it helpful! 😄
This is so helpful!! I am reaching a level where big pulls are more common + I am more comfortable with my job and can actually pay attention to what abilities tanks are using, so this came at a perfect time. I just have difficulty remembering the icons for abilities, but I suppose that will just come with experience and a little bit of memorisation on my part.
I am sure it will come with experience yes! 😊 You could also try and look up the actions of each tank, as the buffs often look similar to the actions themselves! 😁
Playing scholar and Warrior made me go and learn the other tanks and healers. Helped so much in being a better tank.
I just discovered the “enmity gems” like a week ago when I was grinding up my squadron. (We did it, Flame Captain baby!) I sometimes find myself pressing my “engage” button when I’m on my white mage cause that’s what I used to level it to 50.
Yeah considering how crucial the enmity gems are, it is weird that the game doesn't really call much attention to it!
I have never had a gunbreaker use superbolide on purpose...it's always an accident and it always gives me a heart attack. They all apologize for it after the fact though XD.
I think the biggest thing I've noticed as a healer is that at or bellow 50 Dark Knights aren't particularly sturdy tanks a lot of the time, so if you have a really greedy one things might get a bit crazy. Once I got used to that it got much easier to heal for them, but for a while seeing them as my tank would make me sweat a little.
The other thing that stuck in my head a bit later on was that some warriors will start pulling more and more if they realize they can get away with it, it's only really noticeable at lower levels since they haven't reached peek healer masquerading as a tank yet.
When I start branching out to the other healers (started as a scholar) I found it a bit difficult at first to go from a shield healer to a pure healer, the mind set is a little bit different, cause you don't really want to be too reactive on either or you'll fall behind, but it also felt harder to be proactive as well. I ended up gravitating towards Astrologian, cause something just didn't gel with me with white mage. Some of the initial difficulty might have just been not yet having a feel for the heals yet. (I pickedup sage yesterday and am having the same issue, just don't have a feel for the class, so it feels really difficult to heal with so far...and for some reason the leveling que keeps dumping me in higher level dungeons so I'm probably going to have to use my grand company squad to get into lower levels to get myself more familiar with all the buttons)
I still have to kind of change how I think about things when I switch between scholar or astro, and will usually not play both in the same play session cause my muscle memory and timing gets thrown off.
Regarding the sage problem, I would simply recommend specifically queueing for lower level dungeons if you want that, instead of queueing leveling roulette and praying! 😅
@@CaetsuChaijiCh I will try that, usually it always puts me in the really low level dungeons, so I didn't expect it to start putting me in 45+ two times in a row. (my parties did not suffer for it at least so there's that)
Awesome, I've asked several you tubers for exactly this, but this is the first one I've seen.
Thank you! 😁
Another point on DRK's TBN: it only lasts 7 seconds, and if they don't take enough damage for it to be completely depleted before it runs out, they both waste healing AND don't get the free use of their damage ability. That means if they're geared enough, they often won't use TBN alongside other mit because there's a chance it won't get fully used up. Also, Holy can be extremely frustrating, as the stun will sometimes waste an entire use of TBN, both negating their strongest mitigation tool and hurting their damage.
PLD also has a strong low-level mitigation tool in Shield Bash, but like Clemency, it loses them damage. You sometimes see frightened PLDs rotating through targets with Shield Bash if they're scared their healer isn't healing them enough and they don't have Clemency yet.
As a WHM I just regen and sometimes shield if need be. Gives me the most uptime for dps. Same thing when a player gets smacked by something, regen and move on. If they get smacked twice Ill thrown down some petal heals and move on. Focusing on just healing when learning is class is absolutely fine. Once you learn the ins and outs of your healing class you know your windows better for dps. Only tank I ever struggle to heal most times has been Dark Knights due to their higher magic damage mitigation over natural defense.
Indeed, finding space to attack is part of the learning process! ^^
As a whm main I like healing gunbreakers best. All they need is a regen tick, and a heal on tankbusters. The rest of the time I get to dps. I don’t get to dps as much with the other tanks except warrior. A regen is good for them lol.
Gunbreaker is more though then other Player think, GNB is for me on the same level like PLD in single target but he miss almost everything from his selfhealing in AoE.
My issue with invuls is most tank players treat them as oh shit buttons. its a tool like everything else I use them during pulls which will hurt a lot pop it once I stop and then everyone can dps like crazy meaning by the time it wears off most of the troublesome mobs should be dead.
Im a healer main so normally I have an idea on which pulls hurt and which not so much
Worse, the tank is so used to never using them "in case of emergency," that when it is an emergency they completely forget to use them anyway.
Yes yes yes, especially with the influx of WoW players, where mitigation buttons are intended to be “oh shit” buttons. Seems to take a while to break out of that mindset, heh.
Good info, though I'd say that Warrior is closer to the shield healers than White Mage. White Mage features very minimal shields in exchange for flat healing while Warrior has shields as well as healing; better shielding than Paladin in most respects and appears more regularly than Dark Knight. Paladin I'd say is closer to White Mage as it has a good deal of healing but doesn't have many shields, just like White Mage.
Then there was me in Abyssos; a DPS main who had to learn the rotation/combination of tank mitigations to teach tanks how to make the healers not hate them long term, and then learning how healers properly worked for their healing to be more efficient for the tanks. While learning the fight and learning/figuring out how I wanted to do calls.
Fun times.
Given all those brutal dots especially in the savage version, I could absolutely imagine this! Although I really hope this was on normal if they tanks and healers needed that much help 😅
@@CaetsuChaijiCh It was, in fact, my static for Savage. We did finish Abyssos past the growing pains and most stayed together for Anabaseios.
8 week clear of Anabaseios vs Abyssos' 16 weeks, so it was worth it learn the ins and outs of most relevant jobs and teaching a friend from scratch. It made me a significantly more knowledgeable and flexible player compared to me in Asphodelos.
Not a healer but I’m sure as a healer you kinda have to react how each person interacts as a tank.
Very true, this is also why the best advice I can give is based on what tanks typically do, since often there are outliers!
As someone who just got into FFXIV, I'm glad I watched this before getting too far in. I'm starting as Warrior and would 100% be the kind of person to try and "optimize" my self healing, so hearing that I'd only end up making my healer's job harder by doing that is something I'll keep in mind when I get to raid content.
Optimization is a lot about optimization! I am sure if your healer is aware of what you are doing, it is perfectly fine! I am glad you found this helpful!
Warrior's cringeworthy healing can keep an entire party up, you should bring a third dps.
tfw you queue healer and get a drk in low level dungeons be like "ah shit, here we go again"
I have to note this, it's happened to me and some friends a few times in the past, Superbolide has an additional downside that if it is cast it just as something hits you or just before(i'm not sure on the exact timing but it is really rare) you die as the effect isn't on you in time. As far as I can tell the squence of the effects are lower to 1 hp then apply invuln.
I don't think that's quite it, but you might be right, although I think it might be something else! You see, if an attack was initiated before you pressed superbolide, so the damage snapshot already happened, then the damage will be dealt regardless of what you do. Superbolide sending you to 1 hp means of course that attack will kill you as a result.
This kind of order of actions stuff happens a lot in pvp, where for example you can see a summoner cast bahamut, and use guard (so you take 90% less damage), but even though bahamuts attack lands a good full second later, it still deals full damage. It is the same problem in your superbolide case I imagine. Which is really weird actually! I haven't seen that happen before, and given how easily this could happen, I can't imagine how it doesn't happen more frequently!
Oh I've been in parties in which Superboilde didn't trigger when popped and the gunbreaker died. I think there's a slight delay from pressing it. Might be the server delay giving them the finger.
@@CaetsuChaijiCh you could be right there, the hp drop is imidiate after all, but again i'm not sure it doesn't happen often enough for me to have an accurate understanding of how it occurs.
@IKMcGwee it is not uncommon for these things to happen if you invuln just before you are about to die. I do believe superbolide actually occurs like half a second after the animation begins, now that I think about it. This isn't uncommon and could even be a latency thing. It's the same problem also, as when white mages use benediction, heal goes through, and the tank dies anyway! 😅
As a new player tank main…I’m so sorry to every healer main
You will learn and grow! Actually caring about the healers perspective honestly already puts you way ahead of a lot of players! 😊
Something I’ve liked to do as Drk is stagger pulling. I grab the first pack, pop TBN, and one TBN pops I move to the next pack. By the time I get to the next pack TBN is off cool down and I can do it again. Also, WHM, please hold off a little on Holy at the start of pulls, it can sometimes cause TBN not to pop.
White mage was my first job as a sprout and I had no idea what was happening.
I could imagine so! 😅
As long as you are healing and dealing damage, popping the lucid dreaming, youre doing your role
Great video, very informative! While I have been healing for a long time, I never looked into some Tank abilities ("How tf does Living Dead work?!") so this was handy. I only have PLD and dabbled in WAR, though a friend who plays WAR has given me most of the lowdown. GBN and DRK stuff was good to know.
All that said, as a SGE they get drip-healed no matter what most of the time. But I suppose I could, for example, use my Druochole-so-I-don't-cap-Addersgall on a DPS or myself if I notice some icons on the tank.
This video can also be useful for Tanks, both for some tips on defensive cooldown management, as well as what to possibly expect your healer is thinking. Especially good are callouts when the big defensive CD is being used, doubly so for GBN and DRK. WAR a bit too.
Thank you so much! I'm glad you found it helpful! 😄
For the sage consideration, if you need the mp then using druochole on something can be fine, but if you don't actually need the mp and no one needs the healing there's nothing lost in sitting on three addersgall 😊 even if it feels so wrong to sit there on full resources! 😅
@@CaetsuChaijiCh Very true, yeah. I like to keep em cycled out of habit, in case I need a bunch of MP for oshit moments. With doing that and Lucid I usually am not below 60% MP. I still keep that "free Addersgall" button available too.
I just like being extra prepared, since I've found SGE can have trouble if things hit the fan really hard. Maybe the tips from this video will help prevent those too!~
I make sure to examine the tanks and memorize their skill looks so I know what they are doing for me to better juggle keeping them alive and DPSing
Healer pet peeve: Holmgang with no mit to deal with bleed or other status effects that last longer than holmgang. Because, sure, you don't die, but when the invuln is over, you end up taking CHUNKS of damage because the initial bleed wasn't mitigated.
Like I get the benefit but I still hate it.
Yeah, this also applies for any other invulnerability, since you still take the full damage once the invulnerability ends. It is almost like the painful Bleed is there to tell you to not invuln it! xD
I'm a healer main but I never worry about any of these little intricacies. I never let my tank get so low that they freak out and using something like living dead. Also, no one ever complains about my healing management because I'm always helping with DPS whenever I'm not healing.
Indeed, a very good point. Some people find it more helpful than others. I mainly only adjust my play as a healer around warriors simply because of how strong bloodwhetting is. But still, it is helpful to know how, say, living dead works, when something goes wrong, and you can't keep them topped for whatever reason 😊
As a main tank I'll always in the first pull use Reprisal & Arm's Length and use that as a gauge to see how the healer reacts.
This results in either 1. The healer will overheal because they didn't see me use mitigation (i.e. Rampart), or 2. They'll relax and notice that I have things under control.
Rules To Live By: Click the tank. Check their equipment. If their gear is at or slightly above the level of the dungeon, just treat them like they're new and heal hard.
Hover over their buffs. You don't have to know names or icons, but if you read it and see "reduces damage" or "regenerates," they're an okay tank. Though if there are too many buffs, there's a setting that allows you to see up to 10 in the character config menu.
Conversely this will also help you know who's blowing all their cooldowns too early.
Lastly assume all warriors are Gigachads who don't need healing.
👍
sometime it does not work
i ve seen some pld ONLY using holy sheltron during pull and nothing else which make it really hard to heal
Assuming all warriors don't need healing is also dangerous! 😅 I have genuine footage of a warrior that didn't use bloodwhetting very much to put it lightly! 😂
But the idea is good, which is also why many of my tips included watching for cooldown cycling! 😊
@asl9555 Oh no, it does. You just have to really know what you're doing. It ain't easy. You got that right. It sucks. It's not particularly fun. It's a pain in the ass, but if a tank only uses one singular cooldown per pull, I can handle the rest. Consistently. As long as they're not woefully undergeared, anyway and standing in every AOE.
I can't tell you the amount of times I've healed a DRK who casually jogs through a dungeon and only hits the TBN button every now and then because they think it's the best ability ever.
I don't mean to brag or say it's a good thing that they do this, but I AM saying that you have a lot of control as the healer, no matter how bad the tank is.
@@CaetsuChaijiCh A little danger never hurt anyone. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Except the tank, that is.
"When a Paladin have to use Clemency then something went terrible wrong, or there is nothing to attack.. sometimes both"^^
Maybe i dont notice it but it also good to know for Healer that Gunbreaker can use Heart of Corundum and also Aurora on other players, when im farming _the last extrem trial from Endwalker_ (dont want to spoiler) i dont know how many times i save some dps or healer that touch a toxic bubble by giving them Heart of Corundum
But yeah its a cool video, reminds me of one dungeon run where a Healer get almost a heart attack because i drop to 1 Lifepoint as Gunbreaker :D
Friend of mine did that to me while I was leveling my first healer. I literally yelped in fear, and when he stopped laughing and explained himself I chewed him a new one for scaring me, lmao.
When I play WAR in level 90 dungeon content, I just wish healers would stop healing me at all. (Unless it's some free crap like Kardia or oGCDs)
Every level 90 dungeon is possible to do with 1 WAR and triple DPS with even just a mediocre tank.
(Hell, I'd wish they'd stop spot-healing me when I'm playing SAM and I'm intentionally taking vuln stacks because it gives me uptime and I know I can un-fuck myself with Bloodbath and Second Wind at no extra cost to the healer)
I have so much mitigation on WAR that I end up over-mitigating a bunch of pulls just to show the newbie healer "See? It's not so scary. This is a safe place. You can let go of the GCDs now"
Or to at least goad them into DPSing because a lot of DF healers are allergic to letting tank HP drop below 70% and won't DPS if that HP bar looks even remotely scary to them.
There's on average about 1 pull per level 90 dungeon that necessitates the use of a Holmgang if there's no healer or no healing from a healer.
I'd go so far as to argue that Sprint is a form of mitigation because it reduces that time between you pulling the first pack of mobs and arriving at the wall for that trash pull. This time is useless time because the DPS, for the most part, don't get to do meaningful DPS (IE: Reducing the amount of GCDs it takes to kill the whole trash pull). The faster they get started on doing their work, the less damage the tank has to take overall. Really wished more people would just press sprint. It's one (1) button.
Nice guide, though. Plenty of "good enough" information that gets the point across without cluttering with tonnes of details that would be difficult to process for new healers.
Any more in-depth than this and we're getting into speedrun and raid territory, which a player should be going out of their way to do their own research on at that point.
(Should probably mention somewhere that this guide pertains only to dungeons and not much else. Just for the convenience of people looking this up.)
Thank you! Indeed, to your point in the parenthesis, this guide focuses mainly on dungeon pulls specifically because many of these differences in tanks are much more prominent and clear in dungeons, where in other content, it tends to be less of an issue. Or if need be, theres time to explain things!
Also, Sprint is absolutely mitigation. I feel like that would be weird to mention in this guide, simply because the healers also have that. Although in a guide to tanks, it might be handier! :D
Try telling your healers not to heal you or not to heal unless you drop to a certain level when you start the dungeon.
For every great self healing warrior there are about two hundred that don't use their self heals at all, or pop their defensives all at the same time if they get below 50 and then get mad at the healer for "not doing their job".
I have had warriors wall to wall pull with 0 mitigation while sprinting and using gap closers out of my range of healing, then refuse to pull less when asked after the party wipe, then rage quit the dungeon after the third party wipe.
It is much safer to hedge your bets and assume your tank is not a good tank.
My favorite pulls as both a healer and tank are the ones where we w2w to invuln pull. Getting that timing right is such an amazing feeling.
I main as tank (pal and dk) so this was interesting to watch what it looks like from a healers perspective. I tried to play as a healer and found out that I dont like some tanks very much ;p
Playing a bit as a healer also helps you to understand what you would like to see from a tank which allows you to improve your tanking as well, so maybe seeing those bad tanks is a good thing in a way? 😅
it was , I hope I don't make much trouble for healers lol @@CaetsuChaijiCh
As a tank main, I do this but backwards.
When I have a WHM, I make sure not to use a strong mit at the start of the pull because the WHM probably wants to use Holy and Benediction. I may use Superbolide and Living Dead more liberally too. When I have SGE I try not to use barriers until later in the pull to make sure their Toxicon procs, and I try not to double mit since they often use taurochole and kerachole on cooldown.
A lot of good considerations indeed! Considering how you can get the most out of your play with your healers is a great approach! 😊
One thing I keep seeing in dungeons is that mentally challenged gunbreakers will run into a blob of mobs with full HP and a bunch of regens/shields placed by the healers then they immediately hit superbolide, wasting 99.9% of their HP and the healer's buffs/resources.
Yeah that happens sometimes, but that one I attribute more to bad gunbreakers 😅 so if you see that in a dungeon, I recommend keeping an extra close eye on that tank, because they might not actually be great! 😅
@@CaetsuChaijiCh Oh yeah they're definitely shit at the game, just pointing that one out for people so they're prepared for the worst lmao.
i played white mage so i was always suprised when from nowhere tank hp dropped to 1 - taught me when i finally played tank to warn that i will use superbolide:D
The thumbnail really got a chuckle out of me hehe
I'm glad to hear it! 😁
that "i'm using living dead" hit deep... just had a bad group in azadal's legacy that complained about my macro...
I became a better healer when I started tanking, and became a better tank due to me being a healer main. It's super beneficial to play all the roles to understand what they all can and can't do.
And then there's me, giggling because I feinted the boss's attack so it didn't trigger TBN, knowing the Dark Night is kinda mad, but also can't get mad at me for using mitigation. :D
Me a Warrior main: don't mind me heal the damage pushers
Bold of you to to assume dark knights even know what mitigation is. Hands down my least favorite tank to get in roulettes. Everything from popping walking dead at 80% when single pulling to trying to kitchen sink at 15% as they're trying to raw dog the mt gulg pull. Also I love how you never mentioned arm's length as most tanks seem to forget it exists XD
In fairness, a lot of tanks that even do know of arms lengths defensive value save it for far too long 😂
It is quite funny with dark knights, and also gunbreakers at times, that they seem far more likely to be played by players that really wanted a dps job rather than a tank 😅 fortunately not all of them!
@@CaetsuChaijiCh I for sure agree with the observations, Darks for me are the pits because when you get a bad Dark it's like the tank with the worst mitigation with the worst driver at the wheel. I've met a handful of darks in my travel that know their stuff, but they are a rarity compared to say warriors or paladins. Reminds me of the one time when I muttered under my breath they need to go back to dragoon and I died a little inside when I viewed their search info and dragoon was in fact their only 90 class >.>
I think the reason for that is DRK and GNB are usually picked up by people maining other jobs first, as opposed to people that started with PLD or WAR. DRK also has a higher skill floor, so you’re going to run into more that don’t know how to use CDs well vs other tanks.
The number of SCH's that heal for a DRK and forget about emergency tactics when the DRK doesn't get enough healing off their own attacks....or when GNB superbolides and the SCH suddenly needs to top them off... it converts the shield part of your next shield into healing.
I hope you make this kind of video for other roles too. Tanks who don't play healers for example
Actually I made precisely that video yes 😉
ua-cam.com/video/PNhWwTHjXCU/v-deo.htmlsi=SyH3JEuPlNGiB_JZ
I'd say the first thing to do as a healer is probably learn what the Icons for abilities are (Most likely by asking). That's what I did which helped me alot starting out. Learning what each invul looked like and what they did was a big boost. Also on DRK invul, I ended up making a text/sfx macro for it so you will see a text and hear a sound when activated which I'll pop around some low threshold. If the healer is healing aggressively for some reason then I just try to get hit by everything to pop it LOL, no pop? I guess we mittin lol. As for Abyssal, I use it after Rebirth is falling off to heal a hefty chonk back, that has been ideal for me. Also Hyper Potions are in the game now and heal for a ton, so they're really qol in dungeons, especially pre 70. All in all, Drk fun in dungeons! :D
Thank you very much. Dark knight has been the most awkward for me when healing. I haven’t played Dark Knight yet and Living Dead always seemed confusing (should I heal? Should I not?). Now it makes more sense.
I'm glad I could help! 😄 Living dead is widely known to be confusing!
Paladin here, mostly play with my friends so comunication isn't really an issue, but when we're running 8mans or alliance i like to play off-tank so i can effectivly drop clemencies on people my healer friends rez, to save them mana for things like mitigation, dps, or emergency oh-shit buttons. It's saved us a number of wipes because the healers could focus on getting people up on a near wipe while I slap them with heals.
love this song, its from the endwalker gathering beast tribe area!
Indeed! It is one of my favorites!! 😄
@@CaetsuChaijiChalso gonna use this as a tank guide as i level em all, so i dont feel as guilty lollo
@pristinepastel if you are interested, I have tons of guides for tanks on the channel as well, from general tips, to job specific guides, and so on! 😊
"My soul burns in the darkness, I cannot die here! I activate my ultimate ability!" [Auto Translation](Living Dead)!!!
As someone who changed jobs every expansion starting qs a tank doing all 3 dps and then ending on healer.
I hated healing dark knights as a early lvl undergeared sage
Dark Knight tends to be the hard mode to heal because they need to work harder for the mitigation. That of course makes it even more tough if you are new to the healer you are playing! ^^'
Whenever I am playing WAR or WHM its always weird trying to figure out if the WHM will open the fight with holy spam and the WAR should save bloodwhetting until after all the stuns or vice versa
I regularly play warrior with a friend who prefers to play white mage. I concluded that opening with bloodwhetting, even if some of it goes to waste because of holy stuns, gives the white mage a safer opportunity to start their holy spam. You should have plenty of cooldowns to make it despite wasting some of that bloodwhetting as well, so I would simply not worry too much about that detail unless you know the white mage is totally confident in attacking even if you drop some in hp 😊
GNB: Supers At start of a wall to wall
Me: I hate you so much.
From FULL HP no less! >.
"You're stressing out your healer, don't do that."
I'm gonna do it even harder now.
I have leveled all the tanks and healers. But it has been over a year since i did so. Outside Gnb, the tank i play 95% of the time, i could not tell you the what the other tanks did. The plethora of cds gnb has explains why i feel the most relaxed it instead of the other 3.
I don’t know if this changed with Endwalker or not, but if you use Cover before you pop Hallowed Ground, you can give protection to the Covered target. I did this in Shadowbringers on the last boss of Heroes Gauntlet to a Dragoon that dropped their meteor too close to mine. So, I did that to test if it would work and neither of us took damage from the impact.
As it stands right now, Cover's damage always passes through Hallowed Ground. However, I have heard other incidents where combining them sometimes allows you to bypass something deadly under weird circumstances despite this. (Usually that does involve the Paladin dying anyway though!)
I'm trying to figure out a good way to tell a healer I'm about to use Living Dead and how to get good use out of it.
And if I'm a WHM and my tank is using their invuln, I probably want to avoid using Holy right? At least if I haven't applied the stun yet. So, should I be applying my DoT to enemies while I wait for the invulnerability to end?
Announcing you will use living dead in the next pull is a good starting point. If the healer knows what that means, great, if they don't, 15 seconds before you will use it is not the time for them to learn that 😅 so you just have to be okay with the fact some healers will ignore your announcement.
On the holy thing: no absolutely not. Holy is used primarily for the damage, secondarily for the stun. If the tank uses an invuln before your stuns have taken their course, that's their mistake, they should know you have to cast holy for damage, and plan around it 😉
With a low enough target count where your dot could be just as good as holy, you can of course choose to use the dot instead while waiting it out, but simply put, the tank using invuln before your holy stuns have run their course is a bit comparable to a dark knight announcing their living dead intention, and the healer ignoring it 😊
@@CaetsuChaijiCh Thank you for the responses! I'm glad I asked.
Dumb question as someone not well versed on the balance philosophy of FFXIV: I just finished leveling DRK is there a reason abyssal drain has a cooldown 60 sec as apposed to 25-30? like I get TBN exist but you don't get that for a while when starting from 30 and having virtually no self sustain feels terrible. (sorry if this sounds like just complaints but I'm the type of person that finds it easier to deal with things when I have a rational to why something is the way it is.)
There isn't a particular reason for it. Dark knight happens to be the weakest of the tanks on self healing for some reason. I think the best explanation I can give is that as long as the tanks work okay in dungeons, and are somewhat equal in raids, then they are all fine. Which has led to dark knight being the hardest dungeon tank, and warrior being a demigod for some reason.
I don't think there is a specific balance question to it, which makes it hard for me to give a clear or rational answer to you 😅
Squeenix REALLY loves Warriors for whatever reason; I can’t think of an xpac where they aren’t good.
When I tank, and I know a large pull is coming up, I like to double check that my healer is up for it. If they agree, we make the run. Other than that, normal pulls and normal mits. I also try not to use Superbolide unless I genuinely need it, since I don't like giving my healers heart attacks if I can help it.
I main GNB, high level corrundum is by far my favorite cooldown, i use it on myself for defensive heals, and also to heal party memebers in savage to alleviate stress on healers
I play DRK sometimes and I don’t even know when to use LD and I haven’t got a macro for it yet 😭
Let alone knowing how to deal with that as a healer
As DRK main, it's not too hard actually.
Pop Living Dead if you want to not bother with mitigations during W2W is fine, especially at the start.
For something spicier, Living Dead while you're near the source of the proximity AOE (though sometimes you can get away with less, depending on fight).
Just remember that GCDs will heal, so just do your 1-2-3 or 1-2 AOE combo lol
I'm so sad, that people who most need this video will never watch it, because effort bruh.
On the plus side, it does seem the video is catching at least some popularity with the algorithm, so maybe it might catch some of them! 😅
Very few tanks I have run with in DF ever use Invuln except as a panic button. In some cases as a healer, I feel a bit offended like a slap in the face by an invuln use when it wasn't really necessary(More so than Celemency PLDs). Similarly, I'd rather keep the invuln for if I need it in most cases. Exceptions being specific pulls of various dungeons I know outright will be exceedingly tough, where wipes happen more often than usual. I also will use my invuln if I don't want to slow down, but just got through a pull where I used a lot of mits already, to keep the pace while waiting for the CDs to rotate out.
As for while healing, I just use the first 2 pulls to get an idea of how much I need to care about the tank, regardless of the job. The only time I really start to even look at their defensive usage are when I am having to spam out Lustrate or something to keep them up. If the tank is even half decent, Excog, plus fairy AOE, and Soil typically are all I need. Maybe a lustrate if the fight is long. Otherwise, Green DPS it is.
When I was leveling RDM a long time ago, I had no personal sense of how healing in 14 worked compared to WoW, and letting HPs get a little lower, and I would top off tanks with vercure a lot. I remember distinctly a tank getting miffed at the healer over me doing it, when realistically I was the one in the wrong overall, asking them why I was having to heal him instead of DPS. That WHM was actually fine, they had Bene primed, etc. I was just a paranoid DPS that liked to support a lot.
I had a returner warrior in Akadaemia Anyder that used Holmgang once, shake it off like 3 times, and Vengeance once immediately after they popped Holmgang... My DPS was in the hole because I couldn't cast holy more that once or twice a pull.
I've tanked that as Warrior, and I usually start pulls with vengeance and either Arm's Length or Reprisal, then I pop the other with Rampart. Usually my combo healing and MAYBE Thrill of Battle or Raw Intuition with those CDs.
That random warrior certainly was doing it weird. However I can recommend to you: just start with raw intuition. It alone should keep you alive on aoe. After it runs out, you should consider other cooldowns like vengeance 😊 which then will last long enough to use raw intuition shortly after again! 😁 Of course how much you need between raw intuitions can vary, but raw intuition itself heals for so much, that it is on the verge of being equivalent to an invulnerability, on aoe! 😊
@@CaetsuChaijiCh the frustration with that warrior was that wasn’t per pull. That was the whole dungeon. But thanks for the tip! I’ll try it next time I run Warrior.
Now, how healers works from a tank perspective ?
A video i am indeed working on 😁
@@CaetsuChaijiCh That's legit interesting for me as a main tank :D Thanks !
The amount of times I've pressed bene 3 frames before the GNB uses bolide is almost as many as the times I've seen a PLD using clem on himself at 75% health. Which is to say, a lot. Just saying "invuln this pull" is a gigantic help.
I know a good tank when I can pop a regen or two on him and just DPS the rest of the pull.
I mostly play summoner, but some day i want to try other classes, so i might as well watch this
Understanding these other perspectives could well be helpful for you as well from a DPS perspective!
As a warrior main, I usually just ignore Holmgang in EW dungeons completely, unless it's really needed because the dps are doing so little damage that the healer is obviously struggling
to keep me alive during that 5 minute trash pack fight. In my opinion, invulns just confuse healers more than they help. Newer healers won't understand what's going on and the rest
can heal me easily anyways. Lower lvl dungeons get a bit more complicated as the kits worsen for both, the tank and the healer, but once you have Bloodwhetting there is really no point in using Holmgang in dungeons aside from "cause I can" and "welp, my team is dead and I feel like soloing the boss".
Yeah I tend to have a similar experience: while using Holmgang might be more efficient use of cooldowns, it just feels like more effort than it is worth to force it to be helpful 😊
@@CaetsuChaijiCh Agreed. Sometimes playing optimally yourself is just making it harder on everyone else. I do it when I see that everyone is on the same page trying for super quick clear times, but if I'm really pressed for using invuln in order to clear at all......I just shorten the pull. Too many ppl think it's w2w or nothing. If ppl are having a rough time, just pull less and let everyone chill. It's just dungeons.......not like you have to hit enrage or get logs.
As a GNB main, I do not need any healing in Endwalker dungeons to recover from Superbolide, so just dont waste your Benes on me unless its con cooldown.
Corundum + Aurora gives me 1700 potency of healing, + passive regen (yes, you do heal in combat. IIRC its 1% of max hp every 3 seconds, vs. out of combat's 10%/3s; In current gear I should be healing around 1,160 hp periodically, but know that each mobs autos hover around 7-9k and are more frequent than regen is) and another 200 pot heal after the invuln ends.
And its worth noting that Catharsis can *crit*.
Corundum does not trigger off of receiving *damage*, it only looks at your HP value, so if youre out of combat and missing 51-99% of your HP, casting Corundum will immediately trigger it; more relevantly, this means that having it when or using it after Superbolide will instantly pop the burst heal as I hit 1 HP. its for this reason I have Bolide, Corundum, and Aurora all going at the same time whenever Im using my invuln. As Aurora has multiple charges at high levels, it is beneficial to me to keep it running regularly so I dont overcap, and Corundum, Camoflauge, and Ramparts combined have short cooldowns and high uptime so I lose next to nothing this way, while also keeping my healers safe from cardiac arrest
Indeed! The only real reason for the healer to be concerned when the gnb superbolides is that not all gunbreakers actually remember to heal themselves afterwards! 😂
On the other hand, using corundum to heal in bolide means you're completely missing its mitigation aspect - IMO it's better to use it before bolide, to have more time before you drop yourself to 1 HP, and then it'll be soon off cooldown after your invuln ends
@@nospoilerit's true I lose mit if I heart after bolide
but it's a 25 second cool down so I generally don't give it much thought since I'll probably follow up bolide with camo or rampart anyways
If you're a White Mage and the tank is a Dark Knight don't start the Holy spam on trash pulls if Darkest Night is up, wait for it to break, spread Aero/Dia until it breaks, then start spamming it. It might hurt your personal DPS, but the overall damage of the party as a whole will be slightly higher. I have a friend who's a Dark Knight main, and I'm a White Mage main, and we're usually on Discord while playing together, so we've done all the math, and unless everything is already stun immune it's anti-synergy if it keeps Darkest Night from breaking, or slows it's breaking. Aero/Dia's lack of cast time keeps you mobile while waiting for TDN to break and still applying the pain. I have comms with my friend so I can start casting Holy before it breaks with knowledge it will break before it goes off, but this requires either a very sharp eye on the shield or verbal comms, if you don't have either wait for the buff to drop.