Jak 2 Lore - Baron Praxis
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- Опубліковано 28 жов 2017
- Baron Praxis used to serve under Jak's father Damas, who used to be known as the king of Haven City. Baron overthrew Damas and ended up in the Wastelands where he founded Spargus City.
Baron Praxis also used to work for Kor in secret, giving eco to the metal heads via eco wells. He was hungry for power and didn't care what it took even if that meant killing part of the city.
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Baron Praxis Quotes:
jakanddaxter.wikia.com/wiki/Ja... - Ігри
You're interpretation of the Baron is completely wrong. When the Baron says, "if they city must die, weall die!" He's not saying he's the only one that matters, he's saying that he will sacrifice anything for the protection of the city. When he abandoned dead town he probably did so for reasons of strategy, reasoning that saving the citizens would weaken the guard and make defending the city more difficult.
Similarly, his usurpation of the house of mar was probably done for similar reasons, the war was going badly, and he became convinced that Damas was incapable as a military leader and thus had to be gotten rid of in order to preserve the city.
Repeatedly, in fact is the most common message on the propaganda stations, you hear the Barron say sacrifice for your city, sacrifice is something you should do for your city.
The Baron is certainly a vile man, but he's not insane, by any means, just an extremist, he's willing to sacrifice everything for the city, including his own life, and expects everyone else to be willing to do so as well. That's why he had no hesitation in using his own daugter's life as a prop when threatening Torn, and why he's willing sacrifice civilians for the greater good of the city. But he's not rash or wasteful with the lives under his protection either, as seen when he admonishes Errol when he wanted to launch an attack on the metal head nest.
Facts.
Nice
The wound implies he did fight back on the front lines and probably had to retreat. It could have been his reasoning to over throw Damas moving from military leader to city leader.
Agreed. A villain with a code of honor. The best kind.
I also always thought he was a man with a lot of regret. The way he holds the metal plate over his injured head when warning Errol about charging foolishly in an assault against the nest at the beginning of the game, and the way he seems almost remorseful for what he did to Jak near the end when he died- It excellently sets up the Baron as a character that might have some strange sentimental feelings towards his creation. Who knows maybe he had an inkling who Jak was by the time he death came about, maybe not.
But he did seem like he knew he was an ass for all the stuff he did, the creation of freaky Dark Jak and the previous Exile of Jak's father which wasn't even thought up till Jak 3, but it works.
Praxis is my favorite Villain, as I kid I always wanted to get to his palace and see the city like he sees
Your not alone about that : funny thing, but I felt exactly the same when I played it, in my child years ; thought that it will be fascinating to see the city with his point of view. Because the few times we see him, speaking as a person and not as the ruler of the city, he seems to care and be more rational that his cartoonish theatrical grandiloquence implies.
I know right? Such a great game, made me think a lot as a child.
Gene Smilas don't be deceived, he IS a politician after all lol 😂
Yo u actually can go directly into his palace right after the cutscene with Ashelin ends
I always thought there was a way to get in his palace in the cutscene
Damas was upset about his son being taken and went crazy and Praxis took that opportunity to gain his position.
Possible!
It's because of this whole Jak and Damas situation that they OWE us some real closure in the form of another game or a movie.
The timeline of events is always a bit odd for me, but I think it's very possible that some time either before or after Jak's abduction, Damas simply made a bad call that cost much in the war, including the loss of half the Baron's face. This was probably a long line of other shortcomings from Damas, or just a singular isolated catastrophe that drove the Baron over the edge and gave him ample reasoning for usurping the throne.
Agreed, Baron seems like a logical guy. Damas seems like the kind of guy that would order a direct assault on the nest.
Damas has the intellect of a caveman. "The world is ending but I am a survivor, I say this world ends and we live on." Such utter nonsense from a simpleton.
@@K-11609 He didn't just usurp the throne, he clearly didn't have the support of the public to do it. Hence why he needed to create a totalitarian police state and make a deal with the metal heads to keep attacking the city to justify his rule. So the idea that Damas was some kind of incompetent fool that lost legitimacy doesn't make much sense. Especially given how well he ran a city in the goddamm wasteland of all places.
Baron Praxis while he was a power hungry dictator, I think he does care about the city as he was trying to protect it, and did whatever it takes, no matter the cost. I am not trying to justify his actions but he comes off more as a sympathetic villain if you will.
Also since Count Veger also had a hand on overthrowing the House of Mar, do you think Count Vegar was the actual ruler of Haven City, or behind-the-scenes, kind of ruler as he was pulling the strings.
I see. However, he still left behind part of the city and the ones defenceless just died. He is trying to be the hero, but to me it's just failure. I think Veger was always council, well for Praxis that is.
VTNVIVI So Veger is no ruler then?
About the part of the city he abandoned : sure it was a bad thing, and a coward one. But to be objective, one must also see this event in a tactical and strategical military point of view . Situation : your are besieged, that means that your opponent has a strict military advantage in term of number or quality about his forces. If your opponent can't break your walls\defenses, what can he do ?
Do, exactly what the Metal Heads did ; begin an attrition war, because you have so much manpower, that you can don't care about the loses... The Metal Heads are a one spirited mind, so they don't know self-preservation, and they must probably reproduce really fast.
In opposition, Havens city, with its man base army, will suffer any massive loses dramatically.
And now, chronological conjuncture :
- Praxis came to power after exiling the last king, maybe because he was the defender of a more defensive strategy, against the idea of imperiling his forces and the citizens they protect. Praxis now, must prove himself to the city, with an extraordinary audacious or powerful action.
- So, Haven city launched a full scale attack against the Metal Heads nest. The operation ultimately failed, resulting in huge loses in term of men and weapons (the giant tanks see everywhere in the nest).
- After that, the City is weakened definitely for the remaining time of the war. So, the Metal Heads launched a counter-attack to weaken even more, a recovering Haven city army ; this lead to an attack in the most fragile part of the city defenses, the old town.
- Praxis and the Council had now two choices : begin a very like Stalingrad battle, where the two factions will progressively deploy all their forces and reserves, in order to push out the other... knowing that the loses will only impact the men base army.
Or, retreat all the forces and resources you can before a battle to big for you begin.
So the decision of Praxi was logical and even wise. But he was also some sort of coward, because it seems (but we can be absolutely sure, Torn and the Rebelles can also lie a bit to us), he didn't even tried to gain some time for the people to retreat.
But, maybe even that was too risky, so this even doesn't prove much about his lack of car for the city.
- Finally, after this event, knowing he can't win a conventional war, Praxis decided to make a deal with the Metal Heads, in order to make his bombs and see if the dark warrior project lead to somewhere.
Addendum : it's impress me to see how much the Jack and Daxter universe is logical, even we have only an insignificant part of it.
Gene Smilas Wow, incredibly well said. You seem to see things in different perspectives, or point of views.
I really thank you for this kind remark, very perspicacious of you. You too have a good point, with the implication of Veger. This point of view, emerge progressively with philosophy, history and love for work of art, of all kind, video games or animes, there all saying something with different tools. Without developing too much, is all about justice and truth, not a social system or complicated things.
Only, and individual will to interrogate, be skeptical, no to distrust all things, but to finally give trust, to what merit it. Thus, I hope to be the more just and right, according to my own definition of what can be acceptable, in order to never betray my convictions. And, that's require, not work, but personal effort, to find what is true and what is not, and the more we find the truth, the more we can be moral, the more we can understand ourselves and others, and so, more we can be happy, always seeking for progress.
And there is no small or not noticeable truth ; understanding why Praxis did or did not something, can help us in general to apprehend many other things, historical or Political. When we know, and even when understand an evil action or decision, where's the point in saying "this is bad ?", but I think that all agree with one fact : beyond the wrongness or the kindness, understanding with rationality why an action took place at a time, can only help us to support it, if it's desirable, or abolish it or reduce it, if not.
All human can think, so if we want, we can all, with will and time, step by step, progress and understand, there is only one obligation : never underestimate are progress the little they can be and, the same goes for the truths we found, all truths are not equal, but there's none with no value.
Hoping I was answering comprehensibly to your remark.
That awkward moment when you realize that Baron Praxis is voiced by Mr. Krabs.
Well Mr Krabs did try to sell SpongeBob soul for a penny
I know it's never even implied but I suspect that Veger kidnapping Jak is what allowed Praxis to overthrow Damas. I recall Damas mentioning that he was banished shortly after Jak's kindapping and he lost focus on the war around that time.
Hmm... Got me curious there!
I appreciate you making Jak and Daxter videos especially Jak 2 my favorite in the series. Really brings back memories. Just wish the Jak and Daxter games would come out already for PS4. I just want Jak X combat racing for ps4. They said it would release in 2017, but no news thus far. Could they have possibly forgotten?
I'm thinking a delay is on the way...like early 2018 who knows. And thank you :)
VTNVIVI this game predicted Donald trump
Ultra gaming M
Build a wall, make Haven great again!
I'm playing Jak x right now and oh my the damn rubber banding in this game is about to make me flip my damn desk!
I always thought that judging by the size of the piercer bomb after the Krew-bossfight, just sending that alone witohut the precursor stone would be enough to destroy the metal head nest and Kor... Also I disagree that baron Praxis just acted for himself. He was a ruthless dictator that did what he thought was nessesary to keep the last bastion of humanity (or whatever they are) alive
Pretty sure the green eco sword wielded by Praxis was a relic passed down from Mar. Mar is depicted in statues as wielding a huge sword very similar in shape to the one Praxis wields. When Damas was exiled, the Sword of Mar was probably collected by Praxis.
But why enchant a sword with green eco, the essence of life that is capable of healing and allowing growth in nature? What benefits would this eco have as compared to yellow or orange eco when speaking about melee weapons? Could it be that by enchanting the weapon with green eco, the blade deals more damage to dark eco creatures? I think this is considerable, since Jak has had multiple missions where he must dispense green eco to plants infected with dark eco to cure them. Or perhaps the Sword of Mar gives off a healing aura to allies? If this is possible, maybe Praxis used this healing aura when he raised his sword before charging at Metal Kor? Sure, it didn't seem to help much, being that Kor's blast decimated all of the Krimzon Guards. Still, it's fun to speculate!
It is fun to speculate!!!! Since it is believe that dark eco for example acts different on everyone, what are the chances of green eco let's say acting differently when combined with special type of material?
I love Clancy Brown. :3 He's such a talented voice actor! He can play almost any character.
I always got the impression that Praxis did love the city and the people who lived in it, but felt that there was no other way to protect the city than to rule it with strength, not that he was just a generic power hungry villain. In terms of the dark warrior program, those could have been volunteers before. When Errol first meets Jak, he said "we've been waiting for you" implying that Praxis knew that Jak was going to come forward in time. It could be that he somehow knew about Jak's origins and knew that he was able to harness the power of Eco, which is why he didn't get consent before experimenting on him, (or it could be how desperate he got, too). I'm not saying he's completely innocent, I'm just saying he's more complex than you suggested in this video. We just weren't given enough information to start judging him too fiercely. Also, he didn't say a month supply of dark eco, he just said a month supply of eco.
Thanks for sharing! As for the supply of eco, Errol crashed into it and looked like dark eco.
If I remember correctly, Onin was the one who told Praxis about Jak's powers and his arrival, but it is not clear why she told him that.
Not a bad theory, but I still disagree. I believe Praxis has actually fought for dead town but he and his army of crimzon guards weren't strong enough to repel the metalhead attack. Then for revenge, he tried to charge into the nest but ultimately failed and thus leaving his face so scarred because of this battle, that's also why he tells Errol it's not a good idea to attack the nest. Why should Praxis not speak the truth there? I mean no one hears it except Errol so it's not like propaganda if you get what I mean. Next is, Praxis delivers dark eco to the metalheads not to justify his position of power, but because this is simply a deal between these factions. Praxis keeps the dark eco flowing cause he knows otherwise Kor will completely destroy Haven, he perfectly knows he is not (yet) strong enough to take them out as mentioned before. He even says to Errol "Strength is their weakness, we play the weak fool until they eat from our hands...move forward with the plan!" And the plan is, as we all know finding the precursor stone to build the bomb and deliver it to the metalhead nest (which ultimately failed cause Kor killed him).
I'm not saying he is good or something cause he's still a dictator, BUT I think your theory lacks a bit in terms of evidence that what you say is true, it all seems a little far fetched. Also again, I'm not saying bad theory cause I enjoyed the video, I'm just sharing my point of view and what seems logical to me :)
Also as for Praxis' Sword : Wikipedia says it's Damos' sword that Praxis simply took when he toppled him and seized power
Glad you enjoyed still :) I enjoyed reading your version.
The Hessian
From an objective standpoint though, Haven's defences are too strong for the Metalheads to simply breach or they would've done so before Jak 2. That's why we see them using metal bugs to infiltrate and search for weaknesses during the events of Daxter.
It's far more likely that the attack on the Nest happened first, and the recovering forces were too weak to repel the counter attack that ultimately destroyed Old Town.
Realistically, why would the Baron make an all out attack and risk everything when the city is already under siege?
Even at the end, Jak and Daxter go to the Nest alone because the invaded city is too besieged to send more reinforcements.
love your videos as always i have always looked for a deeper lore to the baron thanks a bunch!
No problem!
He was a very Noble man, despite his questionable rule over the city of defy and die, along with bansihing people to the wasteland, he did so with an iron fist, to ensure no crimes would never happen within the city or it would have torn itself apart from cival war, and of course did anyting to keep the metal heads at bay, he did what he had to do to protect the people, despite his drastic actions, Jak and the people he helped did put the city in danger by lowering the sheilds, putting the entire city in danger, you half to remember the world is in an apocalypse state, and Count Vulger was the one to really impact the city all because of a theory on the precursors, The Baron was even accpeting of his death and only asked Jak to keep the people safe, not a villian in my eyes, just a man trying to the do the right thing
Dude you're seriously a genius. I have been playing the trilogy my whole life and never thought of the points made in your videos
Nah I wouldn't say genius heheh, just some ideas I thought of this guy :P
Awesome video VTNVIVI keep up your amazing video
Thanks :D
Baron Praxis is one of my favorite villains of time
You know VTNVIVI , I really like your channel , never regert for subscribing
Thank you so much :D
OMG I WAS LOOKING FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS ALL WEEK
There you go mate :P
VTNVIVI thanks really enjoyed it I think you should do lore on other characters
So Baron Praxis is basically a low key Emperor Palpatine with the Krimzon guard as his Empire.
I'm not subbed, but I watch your videos so much the UA-cam app notifies me that you upload videos. Either way, great video as always, keep up the good work
Thank you I appreciate it :)
Baron praxis death at the end always proved to me he wasnt asking for anything he wouldnt give himself namely dieing for the city
Love you vids man keep it up
Means a lot thank you!
Baron Praxis kinda reminds me a lot about Shao kahn from the mortal kombat series. Both betray those who they were once loyal to just to gain power.
I see!
I think Baron Praxis is a stronger written villian than merely pure evil. He is utilitarian, but his goal is instead to hold onto as much as he can.
For the Dead Town example, he would easily trade the power of Dead Town if he knew that by losing it he would be able to defend his rule better. Throughout the game, you can see him engage in whichever actions grant him the strongest sense of power, despite the fact that his power was crumbling before him.
What I greatly appreciate about Jak II is that all of the events that occur happen because the characters interact with each other to create those events. Krew's goal is for wealth, so he unknowingly creates a massive superweapon in exchange for cash. Samos is written to restore balance and life to the world around them as sage(s). And the way these characters weave themselves into the story based on their motive is much stronger storytelling than a decent chunk of games out there.
I really wish they didn't rush Jak III production. That story has so much potential but falls flat on its face due to the plotholes.
Excellent presentation and thinking, but : even if they are few things that support him, due to the narrative structure of Jack 2, that never really try to explain much about the background ; no one, and no things, can be absolutely bad.
And example : Kor and the metal heads in general, are not “bad”, they are things meant to kill, conquer and destroy, that's inherent to their nature. They are, cruel, brutal, violent, but like any endemic and dangerous animal hunting ; if somewhere there is a thousand of wolf, they gather into pack and then they go kill what they can for eat. (Example of that : the Wolves of Paris, quote : In winter of 1450, Paris was invaded. Not by an invading army. But by a pack of man-eating wolves).
The same goes for the Baron Praxis : he serves and unknown number of years the king, and one day, with at least the support of a part of the aristocracy, Count Veger in head, he took the power.
So, first, maybe the king Damas was a good king, but a part of the elite, and probably the military, betrayed him. But, really interesting thing : they didn't kill him, they exiled him. In term of political symbolic, this mean so much ; why, Jack was exiled ? Because he was seen (and the chiefs of accusation were not false notwithstanding, he as a part of responsibility in the infiltration of the city by its enemies) due to his actions endangering the very existence of the place.
Conjuncture, but maybe, with reason or not, Damas was too cautious for most of the rulers of Haven city, so he was seen as endangering the future of the location, and so, was not kill, but exiled. If Praxis was so bad or powerful, it was wisher to kill the pretender to the throne, but he didn't, because of his own past loyalty to the king, or the opposition of the reaming aristocracy and military leader, that never want to kill their king, but to preserve Haven City and their power. Praxis, was the solution, for them.
Ashelin, defended and seen his father in the past, not the tyrant he's became, as a man of valor, and honor. She said about him, mostly, that her father was mistaken himself. And despite all, she care for him, prove by her : "this is for my father".
So, for my comprehension, when I played jack and Daxter, more than ten years ago : Praxis was not a good guy for sure, but after taking the power, in a city in constant siege, siege that can sign the end of all, he really knew and care for, in leas than few days... He began to become more and more power hungry, not so much because power was all he wants, but because he thought that it was his responsibility to assume the entire charge of ruling the city. Like he was charge to do after the abolition of monarchy.
To be fair, we must think of his absolutely, terrifying, psychological stress in Haven City : you are siege my monstrous abominations, ready to kill you at the least evidence of your weakness, what will you do ? Enforce a democratic and righteous system of ruling, or be sure that all resources of the city are mobilized to protect what can be protected ?
In all game, whe never really see any so call "corrupt" forces of Haven city, the Krimzon guard, do more that, yes, maintening order, but imagine : one public manifestation that turn into a riot, and the Metal Heads launch a full attack to destabilize or even destroy the city. What do you prefer ? a civil war into the walls of Haven city ? Or an order, strict yes, corrupt, maybe, but where you have a chance to survive ?
Why does the rebels are so few and so powerless ? Because no one was really happy of the Praxis government, but no one neither wants to die in the hand of the Metal Heads. As for the overrun district, in the game it is clearly say that it was impossible to save because of the powerful attack the place was suffering.
Praxis, probably after the coup d'etat, leaded personally the charge to destroy the Metal Head's nest. Why, if he was so power hungry and so fast to allied with his enemies ? Why would he tried to destroy the very reason, the very threat that legitimated him ? And he was almost killed doing so ! Was a brave man !
Failing, he became to develop a messianic thought : I was charge to protect this city, I am the only one that can save it, all must help me in this task, that is the more important, and with the most sens.
And then, he developed his tyrannical and egocentric personality, and he was wrong, but all man can't support so much charge in their shoulders, and remain strong and just.
But when he said, “if the city must die, we will all die !” ; he proved that at the very last, him, the most powerful man of this city, him that possess enough power to flee the city during all these years, and offer himself a chance to survive, he never does that.
At the very last, he fought and died, for the city he cares. Without him, and the deal of peace with the Metal Heads, the city would have been destroyed long before Jak and Daxter come.
When the veteran soldiers of the Krimzon guard, enrolled in the “Freedom League”, say : “I miss the old baron”, they don't say, “I miss when I was corrupted”, they say : “I miss the time when the city was not in a persistent civil war”.
dude u put sum effort into this damnnn
Wow!!!!! Thank you for sharing this in-depth analysis of the whole situation I enjoyed reading :D
A real pleasure to do it : is a little thing in opposition to all your inspiring, work of thinking, about this so intellectually under appreciated, works of art. For a long time, I was thinking about Praxis and why he acted like he did ; your reflection was the right moment for me to express. I thank you for your acknowledgment, and the inspiration you bring with this video.
Yeah... that was a long time writing it. An effort, exactly... I was inspirited, and so, I bring myself do to a little work of thinking and writing, because the most important for me, it's not the response or the lack of it, but the intellectual effort, that allways allows progress, in propensity to the effort.
I agree with this. Very well said! Baron Praxis became a monster for the good of his city.
He's very similar to Negan from Walking Dead. He does monstrous things, and is not a good person, by any means, but due to his experiences (and his ego), he believes that only he can save humanity from the zombies, and if people won't won't go along with him... well, then he'll just have to force them to, for their own good. Despite his evil actions, he truly believes he is saving people, hence naming his group "the Saviors". As he says, "I became a monster, because that's what this world needed."
Now that we have Open Goal, I need there to be an elaborate Jak 2 mod one day, that goes deeper into the politics of Haven City that led to the rise of Praxis. I'm imagining a whole story for Praxis, where he grew up poor, leading him to become a political activist, and eventually into becoming the high-ranking officer that ended up overthrowing Damas. I want a Skywalker to Darth Vader transition story for Praxis.
love this video
about the face you were right when you go near these things where you hear baron he says "as you know I was assaulted when we attacked the metal head nest many years ago"
This got deeper than i tought
I'll take that as a like :P
VTNVIVI yeah haha
I think the character analysis is way to shallow and one-sided. Words like "villain," "bad person", "evil" etc. I think it's way too simplistic a view to have. The Jak and Daxter universe seems to be pretty true to life in a lot of ways, ie they have grey area. I mean look at Jak. He spends 2/3 of the trilogy trying to balance the darkness within himself. Praxis isn't a cookie-cutter bad guy. He was faced with a tremendously difficult situation, and he did what he thought he needed to in order to protect as much of Haven City as he could. That involved some sacrifices. He definitely wasn't a classic good guy, but he wasn't purely bad either.
I played it religiously as a kid, but upon replaying at 25, I immediately realized that Praxis is voiced by the outstanding Clancy Brown and that Seem and Keira are voice actor who plays Raven in Teen Titans!
Your Baron v Damas theory is now my head cannon
My biggest question still. Why did the palace rotate after the final race even if it's hardly fixed on a tower?
Good video!
Love your videos. I would be interested if you possibly did a video regarding seem and the monks. Seem says something that doesn't make a lot of sense because of the fact that no one knew what the precursors looked like if they even still existed. But when Jak goes to the Temple in Jak 3 to save Seem from the Dark Makers, Seem thanks Jak and realizes he is the hero the world needs, then looks to Daxter and says" I am glad to see the face of my creator, thank you little one." How does he know what they look like?
Thanks for the support! Do keep in mind that the monks had a purpose, to discover and protect the secrets of the precursors, they knew what they looked like but had to protect it.
"Cough cough. You..are my greatest weapon jak...i made you. Everyone knows any great leader worth his salt,when making a bomb...always make two.."
In my opinion i believe in his own Sick horrid way,he belived in his soul he cared about the city he was sacrificing bit by bit. The ends justify the means kind of logic. He'd let Metal kor attack parts of the city, just to protect the rest of "His" city that he felt like he made what it was.
Thats just my opinion.
I think we can all agree that Clancy Brown was the perfect choice to voice Praxis. Behind Mr Krabs, it's my favorite voice performance by him
Also when Jak opens the time gate they travel to the future through, Kor says “finally the LAST rift gate has been opened”. What happened to the rest of the rift gates and why do we only mess with the one?
I wonder that myself.
I always loved Praxis. Its a brilliant villain
I feel like since veger kidnapped Jak I also feel like Damas got revenge and kidnapped the Barons wife and killed her for kidnapping Jak when he was a little boy that’s just how I see the story of this video game
well dead town also has samos old hut from sandover village
I love the jak and daxter story.
It was odd Praxis did give a months supply of dark Eco which is the most unpredictable substance it still can be manipulated given it can be used in munitions, funneled into a person to make a dark warrior, you also see metal head eggs feeding on pools of Dark eco at the strip mine, in jak and daxter dark eco could even create living eco beasts when mixed with green eco which we see with the final, and it’s never said what eco is used when powering the City walls or the city itself. So maybe Dark eco provides an immense amount of power while being rather volatile.
:O
Oh and for the green sword thing :
Another item is green without be green eco : tre precursor eg/stone
Since they could make a weapon with it maybe the baron wanted a powerful weapon, so this sword ?
(But then why he didn't make research for the crimson guard and stuff ? Because he didn't have time ? )
Also, Jak had to collects drops of eco during a certain mission. Now Green Eco is health, that's what makes me wonder why it was on the sword.
I think its interesting that he makes a comment in the radio that the Metal Head betrayed them and caused Dead Town. I think you are onto something with Kor warping his mind to betray Jak's family. I suppose its because Kor knew that Jak would defeat him. Perhaps whenever he overthrow Damas, Kor betrayed him by attacking Dead Town and thats what he meant by being betrayed by the Metal Heads.
Thank you for sharing :D
If Dead Town was once Sandover Village, and Baron says “when the metal heads attacked that section of the city” he would’ve had to be born during young jaks timeline.
On top of the “this section of the city” line used in the game. Was there more city at the time of the invasion?
The metal heads weren't supposed to be in old Sandover village, they come here from the future. In the original timeline Sandover village probably become a big city in whic much, much latter the Baron would be born.
"If the city must die, then we all die!"
"Money Money Money" - Mr krabs
@@thewintersoldier8387Baron Praix"quiet you"
Let's assume Praxis' cool sword is powered by green Eco. That's not a big deal, you can find Eco anywhere, and make batteries out of it. The same way the ammo for guns, available to anyone, has Eco inside them.
Another possibility. Also, we had a mission with Jak where we had to collects green orbs of eco.
0:27 - Even though it was a little disappointing that they build him up to be the main villain you fight with at the end and just swaps him for Kor, I did find him to be a memorable character in the 2nd game. :)
0:43 - Great choice of words to sum him up.
1:02 - It is great to see all the bios for each of these characters, did you look them up on the wikia or just simply memorized them? ;)
1:20 - So are you implying that she knew Damas back then or no? If not then remember the beacon she left Jak with when he was banished to the wasteland, she intended for Damas to find him.
1:49 - We all have. ;)
2:13 - I completely forgot about his face! I never thought about that! :/
2:33 - And for some reason the Krimson Guards went into battle with precursor orbs, uh ... did I miss something? :/ :/
2:39 - Hey look! Mar's gun actually was aimed towards the nest! :D
2:55 - Oh so that's what they were! It all makes sense. :D
3:08 - And Jak at times.
3:25 - Oh it's just words from the wikia, I was hoping you'd play a clip of it from the actual game. :(
4:11 - I believe Torn says something about that.
4:21 - And to prove to the Baron as well as the city that the Underground(not to be mistaken for the train stations under the UK!) has what it takes to defend the it against Metal Heads.
4:52 - So in other words; he was leaving his citizens no choice then? :P
5:09 - A deal with the devil let's call it.
5:51 - Or maybe he just wanted to avoid being called the weakling who couldn't even defend himself? Just a guess. :/
6:24 - That could also be true, he probably didn't feel comfortable making a deal with the enemy, he was just obligated to defend his city.
7:23 - Who we all know as Jak. :)
7:48 - It's not just about defending the city, it's about defending his reputation.
8:07 - Wait, Onin told him? Where is that in the 2nd game? :/
8:30 - Also be aware; even if he died in the 2nd game, he will have some importance in the racing spin off. ;) ;)
8:50 - But what would you say they had to offer to Krew?
9:17 - "Stuff happened"? He just got blasted towards a scaffolding filled with dark Eco barrels! XD
9:48 - He's never even used it against Jak and when he decides to against Kor we still don't know! Maybe it was harnessed by green Eco? He did have two green Eco sages in his captivity so maybe he could've extracted some from them to prepare for battle against Kor?
10:33 - Then Baron had one green Eco sage in his captivity and therefor used his green Eco to energize his blade! Scratch that last comment! ;) ;)
11:15 - Maybe he was just too overconfident that Erol might win since no one has ever won against him up to that point, which would mean that all that dark Eco would've gone back to Baron.
11:34 - Always happy to watch ... and to analyse! ;)
Baron Praxis was a great character. Stuff I don't remember, yes I do look up wiki it's faster, also sometimes you find things you never knew about. Hmm... I think Ashelin did know Damas and knew where he was, I mean she was ranked captain, I'm sure he had hidden info. The whole thing with Onin was hinted at in Daxter if I remember correctly. Oh yeah I heard Krew even if dead, played a role, he poisoned everyone something like that. Oh yeah!!!! Samos was in captivity, maybe that explains it?
In Jak 3 when Jak asked Ashelin where does she know Damas from, she said "Unnecessary." So yeah, she might have known him
Awesome video and also what was the music you used at the end of you vid?
Thanks! The music is from Final Fantasy 13-2 credits.
Interesting, Mr Krabs.
Could you do a lore vid for Gleeman Vox. And didn't Kor basically black mail Praxis to keep supplying eco or the Metal Heads would destroy the city?
Gleeman Vox? That could be interesting. Kor and Praxis basically had a deal. Of course if Praxis wasn't doing his part, Kor would grow impatient and start to threaten.
VTNVIVI Vox from Deadlocked/gladiator. And that deal turned to blackmail. Kor wasn't threatening he was making a promise its very clear by the end of the game if the Metal Heads wanted to they could have taken Haven at anytime with practically no effort
Kyle Zammit I disagree.
Haven and the Metalheads were in a war of Attrition, each side trying to outlast the other.
In Daxter they use Metal bugs to search for a weakness in the city's defenses, and it isn't until Jak 3 that we learn the Council blames "Jak's friendship with Krew lets the Metalheads into the city".
Based on this it seems Krew was trying to use the chaos of the siege to seize power for himself in the aftermath, but it didn't go his way thanks to Jak.
It would make sense why he has a weapon factory outside the walls, he considered it far safer than being inside
this makes me wonder what and where was krass city in all this
Something I'll talk about eventually!
I think you're kind of leaving out the philosophical concept of Machiavellism, as well as the doomsday scenario Haven City and the rest of the world is in. Keep in mind that if what you assume is correct, and Damas was contacted by Kor, however Kor refuses to accept the deal that Praxis would later maintain, then if he did refuse and Praxis didn't do anything, the entire city would be destroyed and everyone in it would be dead.
If you can delay the enemy from that final blow, you have to do that. The Byzantine Empire did something similar in the 1400s to the Ottomans. Constantinople (today Istanbul) had always been the center of the Byzantine Empire, and perhaps the greatest city in the East, both in the arts, philosophy, economics, et cetera. But the Empire was failing. It was falling to Turkish invaders, and the Western Catholics were no better, as those very knights sworn to protect them from the west, instead sacked Constantinople.
The Empire was left to rot, but it would not go down just like that. Although almost just the city plus a few other possessions were all that remained of the Empire, they were capable of surviving for some time. They payed the Ottomans tribute in order to survive, something that didn't last, but it did buy them time. In this time, the Byzantines were trying to establish diplomatic contacts with the very people who had betrayed them in a last ditch effort to get the aid they required. While they ultimately failed, they managed to gather some sympathies, and the Turks, when they finally invaded the city, suffered casualties they never thought they would receive. But they did win the war, and the Byzantine Empire fell.
Baron Praxis is in a similar scenario. He is buying the city time, and yes, he does lie to the people about where the Eco goes. What else would he do? Tell them the truth that they're paying tribute to the Metal Heads to buy time before the imminent collapse of the city and the death of everyone in it? I think you can see what is wrong about that. He couldn't. People would rebel against this, and if they did, they'd most likely win as they are the masses. And what would happen when the Metal Heads are no longer supplied Eco? The city falls.
But he didn't entirely lie. Some of that Eco genuinely went to projects designed to defeat the Metal Heads. Including the Dark Warrior Project. We can also assume that Haven City is far more militarized than it was during Damas' Rule. Something the city desperately needs for its survival. He was not just spouting propaganda when he said "If the city dies we all die." That is as true as the scenario gets and he knows it. The concept of Machiavellism basically states that it is okay, and also a duty to go any length that needs to be taken, for the benefit of the majority when absolutely necessary. Kill one to save two million. A city sector, to save the rest.
When confronted with Machiavellian dilemmas, you would be surprised just how many people would choose the Machiavellian answer. I myself am one of those people who often choose the Machiavellian answer. And I believe Baron Praxis also is one of those who would choose the Machiavellian answer to Machiavellian dilemmas. You might know the saying "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
But when you think more deeply about it, the Dark Warrior Project did actually succeed. Yes, it cost the lives of three people, and one person's life was nearly ruined by it. But it did succeed. It gave Jak the edge he needed to save the city. Baron Praxis himself notes that Jak has become a supreme weapon, and then leave the task of destroying the Metal Heads to him moments before he dies. This also shows that he had genuine respect for Jak, even if he viewed him more as a tool.
We can only assume what Haven City and the world would've looked like without Baron Praxis. But I dare say that it would've been worse without him. In fact, I think there wouldn't have been a city left to save without Praxis. Which is why I show my respect to my dead foe, after I defeat him in the game. I am not willing to recognize him as a good person for all the things he felt necessary. But I am still willing to recognize him as a hero who saved the city from certain doom. Otherwise, I like your video, and I hope you can put this into consideration.
Very interesting way of analysing it, I love it when you fans dive deep as this!
Honestly From my point of view, praxis is kinda like a solidus snake, he seems evil and like the main villain through out the whole game, then only at the end you get a hint that he's human, he's made the tough choices, even for that time period they still added grey hair on him here and there. Its hard to know opinion from fact when you don't see the battle of dead city firsthand, but I saw it as his last option to take down the metal heads was by bargaining, and giving dark eco, remember He tried Attacking the Nest, failed and more than that, they took a part of his city. the only way the Metal Head Leader revealed himself was if Praxis showed himself He must've decided the only way to survive the metal heads, was if they fought the metal heads on his terms, on his soil. , so even while the city's being overrun, He dedicates his life to try to directly stop the problem more than that prior to the invasion he started equipping special units with more durable armor (yellow soldiers)
The simple way to look at him is a corrupt ruler, but the more complicated reasoning for many decisions might've not been that horrible
Nice way of putting it!
You FOOLS! You brought me right to the stone!
VTNVIVI I'm pretty sure the Baron's sword, like everything else he enjoyed, was stolen from Damas when he exiled him haha
Could be.
4:45 In one of the propaganda stands, it mentions “Genetic alteration research”. You think that could have something to do with Errol’s corruption?
Oh! But the world alteration is pretty big, if Baron was indeed behind Errol's transformation, I don't think he would've altered him. Daxter in the trilogy movie said Errol transformed thanks to his Krimzon bots.
VTNVIVI you’re right, but it seems like maybe bots used the citizen’s voluntary eco.
I understand what everyone was saying about the Baron, but we all know at the end of the day, _the ends do not justify the means,_ of how he went about things, much like societies today.
Can you do a Samos theory I feel like he should be more looked into he's the only weird looking sage from the future
Noted!
I wish Jak 2 would drop on PS4.... never beat the game got stuck like 80 percent through
We shall wait.
VTNVIVI the wait is killing me, I am leaving for the military in 29 days so I only have 29 days left of gaming for a couple months :(
It's gonna release this december 6. I mean this week!
Mine crashed and got corrupted literally at like 90% completion I never even knew kor was the villain lol until I played jak 3
Baron was bad through and through, yes, he did everything that was necessary to defend the city, but the end never justifies the means.
The cost is not always worth it.
What is the true story of Damas and Baron Praxis?
Praxis had the best outfit out of any villain in the series.
He was also the only human one (Gol is half Lurker, Kor is a Metal Head, Errol became robot and Veger became Percursor)
Praxis sounds like the typical politician. 😂
He turned jak into a weapon for the cities defense
As a kid i hated him, as an adult i can understand he made extreme choices but in the end he died thinking he was acting in the greater good
Brings me beck to when I was 14
Proof this game needs a real ps5 update. The prologue of all prologues of this great series!
any thing on sly cooper.. the tv show or movie??
Nothing as of yet.
How tall is Baron Praxis because he's taller than everyone?
where is the rest of the series on ps4??
No one knows, we're still waiting.
what if ashlen was born after her father took over haven city
Possible, we're not too sure when Damas was dethroned.
But green eco is the power of healing, why would you put that power on a sword?
I wonder!
@@VtnVivi omg I just realised I also put a comment right under this one like 2 years ago, kinda embarrasing x)
Anybody else notice the similarity between the Baron's machines and the things Dr. Eggman from Sonic builds?
Just saying the Egg Dragoon looks a LOT like the palace roof boss, maybe Sega was inspired by/ripped off Naughty Dog's design.
hmm...Never looked at it that way :P
Baron praxis sounds like mr. krabs
This is off topic , but why is Daxter a sexy little animal for , so much sexyer then the human species.
Hes not evil but i wouldnt say not good either. He just wants to protect his keep, defeat the metal heads, and contain his escaped weapon (jak)
Like an anti-villain?
@@VtnVivi yes. A messed up individual in his own right but had the safety of hos people at the basis of his deeds. Jak was his antagonist until roles switched for kor to be revealed as the true villain
Wait, Baron is his name? I thought it was his title!
It was always portrayed as his name.
More like classic Dr Cortex (to me Lax Lang is true Cortex), Mr Krabs and Hades from God of War 3 (Clancy Brown)
Mr Krabs XD
VTNVIVI OH YEAH MR KRABS
Veger was eaten alive in jak x
Perhaps not.
I always thought he was a count, because "Baron" is the german word for "count. Never realized it was his first name.
theNeorax it’s not his first name. Baron in English is synonymous to “Lord”
Baron in Armenian means chef fun fact :P
VTNVIVI chef praxis vs gordon ramsay XD
Prop-a-gan-da not Prop-a-gon-da
Great games though to this day Jak2 is the hardest game I’ve ever played, even when compared to the souls series
#jakforever
Damos didn’t found spargus, the wasteland was there before him. That’s a fact.
He at least became ruler, in a way he did found it.
i beat mr krabs without guns
I feel like Veger is the true villain. I feel like Veger manipulated Praxis and Errol and Veger brainwashed Praxis and Errol Veger made Errol and Praxis became corrupted I think Veger convinced Praxis to betray Damas since Veger is a manipulator. Which means Veger is the true villain of the Jak trilogy
Certainly an interesting way of putting it!
VTNVIVI I like to think Praxis and Errol were once good people until Veger appeared
Baron Praxis reminds of emperor mengsk from starcraft that leads the terran Dominion both characters betrayed there friends and there kin Baron Praxis is no different then mengsk himself both lead evil empires krimzon empire is evil to only care for power
I hate the races for jak 2 but love the game
As well as water slum mission, fucking pain in ass took me whole day to beat that mission first time i played Jak 2
Stefan Loncar worst mission for me was the seal piece mission in the water slum.
It's like GTA with the endless police force attacking on all sides lol
Yeah so ... a french politician ?
The way you say propaganda is funny.
I dont know what to put in comment so i will put "this"
"that"
VTNVIVI no "this" because i need to piss
I know that was stupid but i really have to piss.
That means the villager die from the first game.
Everyone on that island died from old age most likely.
VTNVIVI have you ever played the secret level that can be accessed during Jak 2's opening?
It allows you to explore Sandover Village as Jak 2, without the beach or jungle or fire canyon connected. Its a bleak, empty desolate version of its former self and this hidden level implies to me that the villagers met with a terrible fate thanks to the Metalheads.
Can't remember but their may be flying Metalheads in the sky during that area as well.
It stands to reason Sandover would be ground zero and thus the first to be attacked
Donald trumps long lost elf cousin.
This is rebel propaganda, Praxis did nothing wrong, he gived his own life for the city, and was even ready to execute his daughter for the city. A true hero and a great loss.
I love this lore video but you are pronouncing propaganda wrong(prop-a-gan-da)
Baron Praxis-a future version of Donald Trump o wait he is 100 times worse than Trump.
Also he would be a perfect husband for Hilary Cilton (just imagine if Cilton won election instead of Trump it would be worse)
Stefan Loncar Baron Praxis is similar to real life dictators like Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, and Pol Pot, and other real life dictators you can think of.
Well, at least Trump doesn't abuse people for dark eco experiments.
First comment
You know, I understand a lot of peoples concerns, even Naughty Dogs own concerns, that if they tried to go and make Jak 4 now that it might not turn out how fans would want, like with the story and such.
However, what if they did a prequel to Jak 2? Not a game like Daxter, I mean a prequel showcasing the events that took place in Haven City, all of the things that lead to the events of Jak 2. They'd need to get the gameplay and graphical tone right of course, but beyond that there isn't a whole lot talked about in game or otherwise known of the events leading to Jak 2, so minus having to go and take everything that is mentioned or hinted at within Jak 2 and 3, they'd be free to come up with whatever they wanted, within reason, so long as it made sense and was good.
A game on Mar founding the city? That'd be very interesting!
@@VtnVivi I more meant about a game that shows what happened before and during Praxis betrayed Damos and banished him from the city.
My idea is it would end where Jak 2 began, with Erol being told about, finding and capturing Jak, even if that would be a time skip in the last cutscene. Just think it would be cool to see and play all these events that took place that get mentioned.