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Milsurp Munitions (GAME CHANGER?) Ammo Test 💥 6.5x52mm Carcano Rifle Ammunition .268 Accuracy Review
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- Опубліковано 26 бер 2024
- It's about time someone started loading Carcano ammo with correctly sized .268 bullets. Milsurp Munitions is a new company offering ammunition for old-school surplus rifles. However, do they make a quality product? We put their first production run of 6.5x52mm Carcano to the test, and the results were very interesting. We tried both their .264 and .268 loads. The difference in accuracy between the two was striking, but a very odd malfunction we encountered during the review left us scratching our heads. Do you guys think that was a squib load?... I'm still not sure.
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Thanks for the review and apologies for the issue! I'll be sure to send you over some 6.5 Vetterli and 8x50R soon. The ammo for sale on our site is pre-primed brass fresh out of the case, so this wont be a problem for customers. I'm glad you were able to tighten those groups with the .268's.
As for the squib issue, this batch of ammo was hand loaded by us using once fired brass (fire formed to .268), then dry tumbled. The yellow stuff on the powder is primer compound. It has the hallmarks of moisture in the case, but I'm considering either a bad primer or dry media stuck in the flash-hole as well. We're still investigating this, but I'd love to hear the communities thoughts on it as well.
Looks exactly like the clumps of crud I get in cases if I use too much brass polish with corn cob media in my tumbler.
As someone else pointed out, you can get clumps of powder from too much case lube too. 🤠
Having just ordered some a few days ago, will I be getting some from the same lot?
When and where can we get some?
Wet powder also look like it had a lot of grease in it
Good on you for responding and addressing this. Things happen, and companies that address the issue head on get a big thumbs up from me. 🇺🇸 👍🏼
I load 6.5 for 1.50 each on new brass. Reloaded is around .75 cents. It pays to reload for these odd calibers. I also know it's consistent and of quality.
NTW headstamp is PPU brass. I have brass I bought in bulk to load my own and when I bought it it stated "NTW Head Stamp produced by Prvi Partizan."
Get some 100 yard rifle targets with black center. I don’t know how you can even see those homemade targets.
The powder certainly looks like it got wet. I've never seen multi colored powder OR the big clump that USED to be powder ! Glad you're OK.
As far as the powder goes, that Yellow in it reminds me of when I've seen very old powder, or it was exposed to the flame of the primer it just didn't ignite. Not the first time I've seen that clumping.
The squib is almost 100% caused by not using a hot enough primer with ball powders. Ball powders are hard to ignite compared to stick and mainly work well at high pressure and not reduced loads. This will happen frequently when loading for any milsurp caliber like 7.7 or 30-06 , if you don't have a hot enough (magnum) primer with H335 or BLC(2) you'll get squibs and facefulls of unburnt powder due to partial ignition.
We just switched off from using ball powders and over to an extruded powder. That should keep it consistent and reliable
I didn’t hear the primer even pop
That's just not true. You don't need magnum primers for ball powder.
@@timvest8141 It is very true. Especially with temp sensitive ball powders. In cold temps I've encountered a few slight hangfires with ball but never with stick. Especially true with mag loads. Zero issues with stick powders using standard primers. But ball powder in cold temps a few slight hangfires. But my groups are alot tighter using standard primers over mags in mag cartridges. Lol
Learned that the hard way lol
The brown color in the powder indicates a chemical break down, usually caused from temperature and/or moisture exposure over time. The clumps could be the solvents used in powder manufacture coming out of suspension and clumping, but most likely it's moisture.
What sight picture are you using? According to Italian manuals from 1916, the top of the front sight should be at the bottom of the rear v-notch. It is different from what we are used to, assuming that the sights are original and have not been altered by grinding down the front sight. The proper bullet diameter for Carcanos is .268”. By using an improper sight picture and undersized bullets, the rifle will indeed be inaccurate. I have a Carcano Moschetto Modello 91 cavalry carbine and it shoots well with .268” diameter bullets, but not so well with standard .264” bullets. Sweet little carbine.
Im hoping to test some of this and the 8x50r for when it comes out on my channel. This company is just what milsurps need. Hopefully the teething troubles can be ironed out.
303 british is getting hard to find!
That ntw head is just ppu's old head stamp. As for that powder it looks like it got contaminated from case lube I had that problem when I started reloading the powder looked just like that the yellow dots and clumps.
I still can't believe that Lee Oswald used this type of rifle to do that kind of thing........
i own several carcanos, they are neat quriky rifles, but no way oswald did the deed.
@@highboy72 I visited Dealey plaza last week. From the window to the x on the street where he was shot, it’s shockingly close. I’m not surprised at all.
Jim Garrison (as played by Kevin Costner) didn't believe it either!
I'm paying more attention to that squib round than you are. That's a serious quality issue.
Gonna take a pass on the Royal Tiger grade ammo.
Reload. Reload if you can't find ammo reliably. Reload even if you can.
I buy quality ammo when I can find it cheap and save the brass.
PPU makes reliable ammo with good brass for reloading. They also make .268" bullets for reloading, but only in light, spitzer bullets, not the original, 160 grain, bottle nose round. OK for deer rounds but not the original.
Bottle nosed rounds feed better and their sectional density is .321 so they make up for any appreciable drop from spitzer performance.
Finding that bullet is the problem.
Hornady has stopped producing their .267" 160gr bottlenecked bullet. It was stock #2645 and called "6.5 Carcano" right on the box.
Write them and complain. Nicely, but let them know there are Carcano shooters who want to load the correct round.
I think milsurp munitions is onto something here personally. I’ll definitely buy a few boxes of 6.5 carcano for my rifle.
The 6.5 Carcano rifle has a progressive rifling that start with a slower twist to a faster twist. It is needs it to stabilize that long bullet. the longer barrels have the faster twist at the end that the shorter barrels do not. If you are going to get one, get the the longer barrel you will be glad you did.
Had an M38 carcano that shot great IF you aimed a foot low but thats due to the nattle sights on it. I used milsurp ammo from the war. Was accurate as long as you aimed low. Well, that and all the click nangs from antique ammo
When you do your squib removal video I reccomend soaking the bore with Hoppes 9 or a similar copper remover that won't damage steel if left on long term, this will erode the jacket making removal easier and hopefully prevent further damage that can happen if you break or bend a rod trying to get the bullet free
I'm sure you know this, but it should be noted for other viewers: the Carcano M91/24 you were using is known to be the WORST shooting of all the Carcanos. They are M1891 Infantry (long) rifles cut down to carbine length, and because the M1891 used gain twist rifling, the fired bullets were not spun fast enough when fired from the shortened barrels. The M 91/24s typically keyhole at 50 yards.
Others have noted that you need to stand farther back when using that kind of chronograph. Those types work by the photodiodes "seeing" the distortions in the air caused by the bullets passing between them and those reflector bands- if you are too close the muzzle blast can produce similar distortions and throw off the readings.
And dude, you need to start reloading your own ammo for these obsolete cartridges. It's been great to have Privi, Hornady, Star-Line, and others make brass and proper bullets (i.e. 0.268 for Carcanos and 0.329" for 8x56R M95s) for the first time in decades, and once you have the reloading tools, reusing the brass takes away most of your problems with having ammo to shoot.
I actually filmed a couple minute long segment explaining the accuracy issues of the 91/24 but I decided to cut it from the video because I didn't think it was needed in this particular one.
Try the Norma 156 grain 6.5, very accurate in my cavery carbine with gain twist rifling, the torpedo shaped bullet engages the rifling alot better then most semi-pointed 6.5
I’ve seen the powder clump before in cartridges that have contamination in the case. Case lube, oil or water can cause clumping. Obviously all the components were assembled correctly. Primer went bang, had powder and projectile. So the only thing left is contamination inside the case.
The projectile will tap out easily from the muzzle. A cleaning rod will work just fine.
I really like the Steinel 6.5 carcano ammo but it’s always out of stock and expensive.
Just ordered 2 boxes of the .268 from them. Hoping for some good groups.
Aim small miss small!
That clump of powder sure looked like it somehow got some contamination into it somehow, but it could also be not hot enough primer as some one else suggested, but if it was that I would expect to see it in more than one round.
It was not ignited by the primer properly, it will have that look. It is puzzling at first.
That clump of powder was caused by contamination - either water or oil. Probably oil from new reloading dies or powder measures.
Years ago I shot a 6.5 Carcano using Italian military ammunition from WW2. It shot a 4 foot flame out the end. It turns out nitroglycerine was added to the powder.
damn! i guess they really wanted hot loads, lol
Exactly. Same thing that the Japanese did to get passed bombing of Gunpowder Works and Material Supply Chain Issues and to work the Breach Blocks on Heavy Machine Guns. They added Blasting Powder basically towards the Wars End as a Substitute Standard.
Literally my fav content creator
Hopefully it will be just a lot issue like that notorious Graf and Sons 7.7 Arisaka lot a few years back (I had a couple squib loads with it).
hopefully milsurp munitions expands their line up and hopefully dont have issues like precision cartridges did with 7.7 years ago
Red Army Standard makes great 7.62x54R steelcase for about 65 cents a round. 148 grain fmj and it's perfect for my beloved m91/30. Point and click bullseyes at 50 and 100 yards. Rifle is fine, ammo is fine
If you can drive out that bullet without destroying it, at least that will be one you can mic and get a real reading of bore diameter.
$43 for 20 rounds just leaves a sour taste
We hope to bring costs down as we grow, but we do make up for it with excellent customer service, product and very fast shipping.
@@MilsurpMunitionswill yall ever make the clips for 8x50mmR Austrian and carcano?
@@MilsurpMunitions We shall see, because I have a lot to feed.
Someone is gonna load 8x50R?! hell, they could all be squibs and that would be fine with me, just having brass is enough :D
I have only shot my original chambered m95 and carbine ~20 rounds since its all been WW2 era surplus...
Might be the condition of the barrels of the guns you have probably knackered from over use over the deacades
I had to run that back, I thought tiger king imports was making it. I was like lord have mercy..and btw several of my milsurp rifles shot high, so I adjusted the rear sight to around 500 meters I believe, and it brought them down.
So today I got my order. There was no Vetterli I ordered in my delivery. I sent an e-mail and opened a beer . I turned around to watch some more Readiness Review re runs and the gentleman called me at 6:00 pm. Apologized and made it right. CUSTOMER SUPPORT.
I'm glad they took care of you! That Vetterli ammo will be cool to check out.
Easy fix. Take a rifle ram rod, hold it with 3 or 4 inches to drop. Repeat as needed.
Selier and Beloit and PPU. Possibly the other company that you have shown and I have not tried it yet.
Good show. Thanks.
I hand load ammo, and even though I'm fairly green still, I can say that there's something in the powder on the squib load. You notice all that tan pellet like stuff? That's not smokeless gun powder. The powder is that gray flakey stuff. So yeah, somebody screwed up at Milsurp Munitions and put something in the case along with the power. Most likely answer to me would be bunched up walnut Media or corn cob media from cleaning the case.
Yeah that sounds like a decent assessment to me. To be clear the ammo sent to him was an exclusive batch to be used internally, the rounds for sale now do not have this issue.
@@MilsurpMunitions Hey, it's nothing against y'all or anything, I know that this can happen with anyone, wether it's a company/ manufacturer, or a small time handloader, like me. Shit happens. I for one actually did the opposite of a squib round with some 303 Brit I loaded, I slightly overcharged it, thankfully I didn't blow up my gun, but still.
As an Enfield collector don't hurt it!
It's all good, I appreciate your input. More room to get better and grow!
@@user-il7nt9ng4b
Love your videos!
Awesome video RR
That off color powder could be from case lube. I had an experience like that once from using spray lube. . I cleaning rod dropped down from the muzzle in will knock that bullet out without a lot of effort. Also you probably know this but if put that front sight in the bottom of the v notch it get you closer to your point of aim.
Had the same problem with BLC-2 loads for my Carcano. Primer/ powder combo not optimal.
Brother man, that 91/24 looks nice you know a guy whos got upper handguards? Im trying to unbubba mine.
Put a blob of JB weld on top of the front sight. File it to shape and leave it tall that will bring down your point of aim.
Please don't do this. Why do fudds love to ruin milsurp rifles?
Keep practicing and you will be good as it gets soon. I don't trust RTI period.
Not sure if it's because of the ammo or shot out barrels (or both), but the Carcano's reputation for poor accuracy and quality remains intact!
get a skinny dowl rod to for that out towards chamber
Only had one squib load in 40 yrs. A loose bullet improper bullet neck tension was the cause. Just like yours but with a 45 70. What a mess with the unburned powder.
i shoot ppu and dude my carcano groups well and thats standing up straight in an indoor range, i think its just poor quality control
With that squib load, based on the clump and the yellowing, my guess is this case had some left over lubricant left inside of it. My personal case sizing lube is Lanolin mixed with water. If that left over lube was in the case when it was charged and the bullet seated, the powder would have soaked it up like a sponge and turned it inert
Isn’t it like $2.50 a round? Those Carcano Carbines are cool looking, but I’ll stick to my M44 and M39 Mosins.
What is the price on 7.62x54R ammo up to a box now? i have 40 rounds of some match ammo for the old Mosin's may try to sell it when the price starts to go up.
My gun shops for as much as I love them for different reasons,THEY ALL SUCK WHEN IT COMES TO MOST MIL SURP AMMO LIKE THIS, it's always the same rhytoric we can't get it I call BS they just wanna sell there bread and butter items😢 never seeing that when they had it it didn't last longer long which is why except for 7.62x54r and 303 British I dont mess with mil surp much anymore,years back I loved it now not so MUCH, I payed 40 bucks for a box of 20 PPU RIFLE LINE 303 THATS NUTS!!,I love mil surp rifles but I'm pretty much done with them, the squib looked like mine in 7.62X54r it looks like too much case lube got inside the case degrading the power,that's Probably the issue here
I think it was Contaminated powder, I am reloading carcano ammo and you need to keep your powder dry!
That's the case that's pretty cool it's about time😅
I wonder if the Company was using a Surplus Powder?
COULD YOU notice any difference in kick between the different diameters?
The .268's are slightly more punchy
@MilsurpMunitions Thank you. I rather expected that.
Does anyone know where i can het some 218 bee ammunition? Got the rifle but no ammo, and can't find any 💔
At 2.00 a shot unaffordable
My Carcano needs .264. The .268 turned out to be too large.
Can't be true! All the 6.5 Carcanos were made for .268 bullets, period.
Get some training Mr Readiness, because you can become a great shot.
Watch my other videos. I can actually shoot decently fine. I'm no marksman but in this case it was the rifles.
@@ReadinessReviews I’ve seen them, but I have also heard you say multiple times you aren’t a great marksman. I’m just saying you can be one. Just about anyone can be if they want to. Keep up the good work. I enjoy your videos and old surplus rifles.
I have 3 carcanos I inherent, let you know, these firearms are sighted at 300 meters
You didn`t get the powder to ignite fully. Had those issues before on my SKS using small rifle primers with 1680 powder. Never had that again after switching to different brass using large rifle primers. In your case I would guess that there was something in the way/blocking the hole btw primer and powder or simply a bad primer or powder. Seating depth of the primer could also be an issue or a weak spring?
Someone did bring to my attention that since the rounds I specifically sent to him were dry tumbled, some media might've been stuck in the flash-hole.
Have seen that too. I honestly never tumble after sizing as I have seen media get stuck in the flash hole. Something to consider
ur clip needs to have front lips bent inward ur ammo should not point up like that, when i did this reliability improved to 100%
Groups like that makes me wonder if Oswald really was a fall guy. 😢
No joke
He used a m91/38 with US made ammo with the proper *.267* diameter 162 gr. open flat based round nosed bullet. It obdurates and fills the rifling properly.
My m41 Carcano with Norma (which used a much closer to right bullet than anyone today) ammo is dead on w/ a 6 o’ clock hold and I could easily get sub 3” groups at 100m open sights. That was with two very precious boxes I just happened to find back in the day, very little practice with it, just rifle shooting in general.
What do those .268" bullets weigh? Same 139 gr. as the .264" bullets?
Aren’t these rifles normally zero’d at further distances so your point of impact will be high?
Yes, I explain as much in the video
@@ReadinessReviews apologise this will teach me to have you on in the back ground whilst doing other stuff, great content as alway
With all due respect you are too close to the chrono, should be 10-12 feet away, thanks for posting.
Pretty much rules that crap out..back to the drawing boards . a searching..😮
Their ammo is way to expensive also, it should be no more than the PPU. Wish .267 bullets were more readily available for hand loading PPU brass.
I'm guessing moisture in the powder. Seeing clumps like that. IMHO.
where's your hat?
Moisture in the case bud
Nope.
@timfarley274 that's is exactly what gunpowder looks like when exposed to moisture. I handload and have forgotten cases I had charged with powder. That's exactly what it looks like
@@estright9293 I'm not going to say impossible, but highly unlikely and I have seen exactly that behavior from Ball Powder that was not ignited properly. This is a known issue with some ball powders, why I prefer extruded. Maybe I shouldn't call it an issue, if you use the right primers, they ignite reliably.
No, never
RTI👎 Junk
Ah, ammo made by RTI.. excited to see how it turns out. They have a bad track record
Edit - Yes I get that Milsurp Munitions is technically a separate company. Though they are started up via RTI and are tooling up to sell ammo specifically for guns imported by RTI
Anyone with a few brain cells can see theyre connected
It's not made by RTI, its just being marketed by them. The guy that runs Milsurp Munitions knows his shit, ships very quick and is also a really cool guy. The collab with RTI is because he is the same guy that designed and setup their website.
We're an entirely separate company, just partnered with Uli from RTI
RTI is the sole investor in the company. So it's essentially owned by RTI, but operated by someone else.
They just assemble ammo from PPU components. There are now several companies doing the exact same thing.
@@donwyoming1936no, that is not true.
No. I, Reese Spector own the company, Uli owns a minority of the company. @@donwyoming1936
You have hair?
10:52 Powder is bad and shows that RTI is up to their old tricks! 😢
separate company, just promoted by RTI
You are doing something wrong with the shooting and the group should not be that far apart from each other and the targets.
264 👎👎
😂 43 bucks for 20 rounds plus a squib round luckly you noticed yeah no thanks just 💩 i wont ever be a buyer no thanks
Yikes over 2$ a round and still getting squibs guy will be closed with in the year
All this company does is assemble ammo from PPU components. I can do that myself. And with no squibs.
1:31 maybe watch the video before talking out your ass????
get a skinny dowl rod to for that out towards chamber
What?