Several years ago, when on holiday to the UK, I convinced my family to travel all the way from London to Cardiff JUST to visit the shrine, the tourism office, and the secret entrance (the water tower). Worth it. Cardiff is actually a beautiful city, and I ended up having a great time!
Fun fact: the bald guy who was pushing for them to accept the 456's offer based on numbers is played by Nicholas Briggs, the modern voice of the Daleks and a bunch of other creatures.
And the head of Big Finish, the company that does audio plays, mostly for Doctor Who. They gave the poor Eighth Doctor a new lease on life and made him the longest-running Doctor of all time. He's going on 23 years, 24 in January. And, on an awesome note, the BBC recognizes the audios as official canon.
To this day I can't watch the scene where the government chooses which children to give up without crying, both of sadness and anger. Because you are absolutely right, that is how the conversation would go. When I first saw it I cried almost nonstop from there to the end of episode 5. 😢
His death was always sad to me. I should have seen it coming really because he shined a lot in this series and when he was on the phone to his sister and her family it was like he knew he was going to die and he was saying goodbye
Oh no. I don't think I'm ready to see this again. This episode broke me & I rarely watch reactors to this season because of that. Definitely making an exception for you.
The woman who heads up the Special Ops team throughout the Season is such a great character IMHO. When I first saw this 15 years ago, I started off hating her and wanting her dead. By the end, though, I found myself loving her.
Some say the fact that this is exactly what the government would do is what makes it scary. No what makes it scary is that if we're honest with ourselves we'd all come to the same conclusions. If 10 percent is going to be lost no matter what you would try and find a way to make it a strategic sacrifice.
The issue is that the people who make the decisions never include themselves in the "bad" bit needed to be sacrificed. They think that they are indispensable, and then casually decide that everyone else isn't worth it. And the worst bit is, they are the ones who made the policies that caused the discrepancy between schools in the first place. The reason is always the same, money. They don't want to actually invest in making the system fair, and then when push comes to shove, the people they don't care enough to invest in are the ones suffering again.
Fun fact, the balding guy you got mad at is played by Nicholas Briggs, who voices a lot of the monsters (including the Daleks and the Cybermen) and is also in charge of Big Finish, who make Doctor Who audio dramas.
I mean, yeah, cool, let's have Jack stand up to the 456. But maybe have a plan other than "leave now or I'll be angry" ... This is not The Eleventh Hour, you can't just show up and scare the aliens away.
Exactly! They even tried to use the same tactic of telling them to "search" Captain Jack Harkness, as if that would be equivalent to looking up The Doctor! Not a good plan.
12 children with no relatives that no one will ever miss vs the population of the planet. Don't no that I could do it but I'm not Jack - who has seen how many people die by this time?
A government decides whose lives are worth saving while a man cradles his gay lover, dying of a virus. Russell T Davies lost a lot of close friends to the AIDS epidemic in the 80's, and the harrowing loss and anger he felt at the time and still feels today that permeates a lot of his writing is one of his best aspects as a writer imo. Sometimes burying your gays isn't just right, but necessary.
It’s the perfection and raw drama he used to be able to do so well. Unfortunately he’s really lost his way as a writer, unless there is a lot of executive interference nowadays with the things he writes
@@obiwankenobi687 if you're referring to the more recent season, i think there were still those moments of hard hitting drama he does so well in episodes like 73 Yards and Dot and Bubble. I personally think it was more of a swing and a miss at something different, but I wouldn't say he's lost his way as a writer considering he's done stuff like Years and Years and It's a Sin in the last few years
@ years and years and it’s a sin are brilliant, his new DW is the worst thing I’ve ever seen in the shows history, he’s properly mid life crisis going off the rails
You know whats scary about this situation? Its something that would probably happen with my UK government and how horrible it will be. They would absolutely go for the poorer areas and the migrants
Arguably the way they approached it is practical definitely not moral especially when they selected criteria of high achieving schools not high achieving pupils in schools as that way all the rich kids definitely survive including their children
@@CrankyGrandma Here is the thing, no matter what you choose, the 10% are dead. They don't matter anymore. The only question is: are you going to let the other 90% die or not.
This was my last Torchwood episode I ever watched. I didn't bother finding out how this series ended and never cared to know. They killed off too many of the original characters and Ianto was my favorite, along with Jack.
A Torchwood which couldn't kill off it's main characters would be a Torchwood which betrays its base premise. It's a more mature Doctor Who with higher stakes. It's meant to show the dark side of the Doctor Who universe, how life is without the Doctor. All of the thematic and emotional strength of the series would be limited without character death. I get why you wouldn't want to finish it though, these deaths did emotionally wreck me. I just happen to enjoy being emotionally wrecked.
@@nathanielmorgan9108 Killing ALL of the supporting characters and leaving us with GWEN? No, thank you. I continued when they killed off Owen and Tosh but they lost me when they killed Ianto and left the Mary Sue.
@@mortimerbrewster3671 Mary Sue? Gwen? The character who can't do anything right and messes up constantly? Do you know what Mary Sue means? First off not everyone likes her, that disqualifies part of the Mary Sue thing, and she has to be taught how to use a gun, and is outsmarted and bested by enemies constantly. Say what you want about her character, but she cannot be by definition a Mary Sue. The literally only thing she has in common with a Mary Sue is that she's female.
@@mortimerbrewster3671I could understand that. I was not a big fan of Gwen to after she cheated on Rhys and she got away with it by drugging him by making him to forget so I understand why you stop watching the show after this.
When I do a RTD-era rewatch I'm always tempted to leave Torchwood after s2 so that our last glimpse of them is Ianto and Gwen in the hub in Journey's End 🥲 I probably end up watching CoE 50% of the time
There is a shrine in Cardiff Bay, at the site of the hidden side entrance to the Torchwood Hub down by the water, dedicated to Ianto.
It’s beautiful
Several years ago, when on holiday to the UK, I convinced my family to travel all the way from London to Cardiff JUST to visit the shrine, the tourism office, and the secret entrance (the water tower). Worth it. Cardiff is actually a beautiful city, and I ended up having a great time!
Fun fact: the bald guy who was pushing for them to accept the 456's offer based on numbers is played by Nicholas Briggs, the modern voice of the Daleks and a bunch of other creatures.
And the head of Big Finish, the company that does audio plays, mostly for Doctor Who. They gave the poor Eighth Doctor a new lease on life and made him the longest-running Doctor of all time. He's going on 23 years, 24 in January. And, on an awesome note, the BBC recognizes the audios as official canon.
Ianto's death really REALLY hit fans hard. He has a shrine in Cardiff to this day, and still appears in Big Finish audio dramas
I both applaud this season of Torchwood for the excellence and realism, and hate it for Ianto's death the realism.
I love the little second Gwen has to take to prepare herself before she pulls the cover off Iantos body.
To this day I can't watch the scene where the government chooses which children to give up without crying, both of sadness and anger. Because you are absolutely right, that is how the conversation would go.
When I first saw it I cried almost nonstop from there to the end of episode 5. 😢
That is honestly one of the most chilling and infuriating scenes for me. Absolutely terrifying.
the “school league table” quote is so chilling. mundanity turned fascist, as it so often does
Ianto’s death hits so hard 😢 The truly scary thing about this story, is how realistic it is.
Ohh that lady minister talking about the good schools and bad schools ... so reminded me of Thatcher such a good performance by that actress.
Yes, because you've been discriminated against for education, you are worth less. 🤮
Ianto's shrine in Cardiff, as far as I know, still going strong - increddible
Yes it is !
Yeah I had no idea. I was going round Doctor Who and Torchwood locations and then I went there and was like "It'S STiLl HeRE??"
The detail of Jack always coming back to life with a huge loud intake of air, but this time it's an understated quiet little gasp always makes me cry
"You... are in every nightmare... I've ever had." What a line! What a delivery!
I like Doctor Who Jack. I do not like Torchwood Jack as much. But to his credit, Jack was trying to be the Doctor, but he can’t. He’s not the Doctor.
This planet is protected.*
His death was always sad to me. I should have seen it coming really because he shined a lot in this series and when he was on the phone to his sister and her family it was like he knew he was going to die and he was saying goodbye
This episode is one of the strongest in Torchwood. Ianto was my favorite. 😭🤧intelligent, loyal to Jack and cute.
This episode broke my heart when I first saw it. Ianto was my favourite character on the show.
Oh no. I don't think I'm ready to see this again. This episode broke me & I rarely watch reactors to this season because of that. Definitely making an exception for you.
Same !
14:39 "The weak get left behind or sacrificed to aliens" is an iconic statement
The woman who heads up the Special Ops team throughout the Season is such a great character IMHO. When I first saw this 15 years ago, I started off hating her and wanting her dead. By the end, though, I found myself loving her.
Some say the fact that this is exactly what the government would do is what makes it scary. No what makes it scary is that if we're honest with ourselves we'd all come to the same conclusions. If 10 percent is going to be lost no matter what you would try and find a way to make it a strategic sacrifice.
The issue is that the people who make the decisions never include themselves in the "bad" bit needed to be sacrificed. They think that they are indispensable, and then casually decide that everyone else isn't worth it. And the worst bit is, they are the ones who made the policies that caused the discrepancy between schools in the first place. The reason is always the same, money. They don't want to actually invest in making the system fair, and then when push comes to shove, the people they don't care enough to invest in are the ones suffering again.
@@AnnekeOosterink This.
Fun fact, the balding guy you got mad at is played by Nicholas Briggs, who voices a lot of the monsters (including the Daleks and the Cybermen) and is also in charge of Big Finish, who make Doctor Who audio dramas.
11:55 just to let you know he’s Nicholas briggs the voice of the Daleks
I mean, yeah, cool, let's have Jack stand up to the 456. But maybe have a plan other than "leave now or I'll be angry" ... This is not The Eleventh Hour, you can't just show up and scare the aliens away.
Exactly! They even tried to use the same tactic of telling them to "search" Captain Jack Harkness, as if that would be equivalent to looking up The Doctor! Not a good plan.
One more day!
Such a devastatingly good mini-series 😢
So what Jack says to the aliens hits different when you think of how this ends.
12 children with no relatives that no one will ever miss vs the population of the planet. Don't no that I could do it but I'm not Jack - who has seen how many people die by this time?
The woman at the beginning is Sophie Hunter, she married Benedict Cumberbatch
The table conversation made me angry because it felt real But you cant determine a child's future based on the school they go to.
Also the idea that how much they achieve is what a life is worth is basic eugenics.
Entire earth is at risk? Where is the doctor!!! xD
Harriet Jones was right
Gg Ianto, it was so good to see your badass self
Also Clem deserved much, much better😢😢
A government decides whose lives are worth saving while a man cradles his gay lover, dying of a virus. Russell T Davies lost a lot of close friends to the AIDS epidemic in the 80's, and the harrowing loss and anger he felt at the time and still feels today that permeates a lot of his writing is one of his best aspects as a writer imo. Sometimes burying your gays isn't just right, but necessary.
It’s the perfection and raw drama he used to be able to do so well. Unfortunately he’s really lost his way as a writer, unless there is a lot of executive interference nowadays with the things he writes
@@obiwankenobi687 if you're referring to the more recent season, i think there were still those moments of hard hitting drama he does so well in episodes like 73 Yards and Dot and Bubble. I personally think it was more of a swing and a miss at something different, but I wouldn't say he's lost his way as a writer considering he's done stuff like Years and Years and It's a Sin in the last few years
@ years and years and it’s a sin are brilliant, his new DW is the worst thing I’ve ever seen in the shows history, he’s properly mid life crisis going off the rails
You know whats scary about this situation? Its something that would probably happen with my UK government and how horrible it will be. They would absolutely go for the poorer areas and the migrants
It is already happening. But not in the way you think.
Now it begins to get dark
Can’t stand iantos death No😢😢😢😢😢
he couldn’t stand either 💀💀💀
I love how real this story feels is actually say rtd works his best in a miniseries format like years and years and it’s a sin
Years and Years and It’s A Sin ❤❤❤
10% This time... and next time?
Arguably the way they approached it is practical definitely not moral especially when they selected criteria of high achieving schools not high achieving pupils in schools as that way all the rich kids definitely survive including their children
Schools that get the most funding.
Saving 90% of all children vs Saving 0% of all children... that is really an easy decision.
Each life is priceless. You cant put a number on it
@@CrankyGrandma Here is the thing, no matter what you choose, the 10% are dead. They don't matter anymore. The only question is: are you going to let the other 90% die or not.
I hate this series for killing off Ianto, Tosh & Owen.
These people are appalling.
This was my last Torchwood episode I ever watched. I didn't bother finding out how this series ended and never cared to know. They killed off too many of the original characters and Ianto was my favorite, along with Jack.
A Torchwood which couldn't kill off it's main characters would be a Torchwood which betrays its base premise. It's a more mature Doctor Who with higher stakes. It's meant to show the dark side of the Doctor Who universe, how life is without the Doctor. All of the thematic and emotional strength of the series would be limited without character death. I get why you wouldn't want to finish it though, these deaths did emotionally wreck me. I just happen to enjoy being emotionally wrecked.
@@nathanielmorgan9108yeah I agree. That why I always carry on watching TV Show after a character death. I always try to move on.
@@nathanielmorgan9108 Killing ALL of the supporting characters and leaving us with GWEN? No, thank you. I continued when they killed off Owen and Tosh but they lost me when they killed Ianto and left the Mary Sue.
@@mortimerbrewster3671 Mary Sue? Gwen? The character who can't do anything right and messes up constantly? Do you know what Mary Sue means? First off not everyone likes her, that disqualifies part of the Mary Sue thing, and she has to be taught how to use a gun, and is outsmarted and bested by enemies constantly. Say what you want about her character, but she cannot be by definition a Mary Sue. The literally only thing she has in common with a Mary Sue is that she's female.
@@mortimerbrewster3671I could understand that. I was not a big fan of Gwen to after she cheated on Rhys and she got away with it by drugging him by making him to forget so I understand why you stop watching the show after this.
Ianto was always boring anyways 😅
+phantomquartz0586
Boring on the streets, an absolute animal under the sheets 😉
When I do a RTD-era rewatch I'm always tempted to leave Torchwood after s2 so that our last glimpse of them is Ianto and Gwen in the hub in Journey's End 🥲 I probably end up watching CoE 50% of the time