Part 1 takes the oxygen from you. Part 2 gives you a little air for resuscitation. Part 3 knocks you to the ground. Part 4 leaves you for dead. Part 5? It hands you a shovel to dig your own grave.
The more I think about Torchwood the more I think Jack is the most interesting character in all of New Who. He has to make the difficult choices without the Doctor's resources and then has to live with the consequences and guilt. Forever. Ouch
I was visiting Cardiff in 2015 and I heard about it so I stopped by there to see it. There was a couple looking at the shrine wondering what it was about so I had to tell them it was for a fictional character on a TV show.
I still think Children of Earth is the best thing RTD has written for the Whoniverse. He really sticks the landing, and I don't think he's very good at that normally. One thing that always sticks out to me around the ending is that even though the PM is clearly on the outs, the woman who looks set to take over is the one who was pushing for only certain kids being given to the 456, so it's not like she's not compromised too, even if she's acting all righteous in the wake of the 456's defeat.
@obiwankenobi687 Doomsday and Waters of Mars are pretty good. I liked Parting of the Ways at the time, but him going back to the whole deus ex machina plot resolution again and again means it's less effective on a re-watch (plus there are massive plotholes if you think about any of it for more than a minute). I hated Journey's End and the End of Time (not the actual regeneration, which was a bit indulgent but decent), though.
@obiwankenobi687 I love RTD, but he really is the king of the deus ex machina. Doomsday is his only finale that properly worked (MAYBE Parting of the Ways, but while turning Rose into a God for a scene so that she can destroy millions of daleks instantly might make some kind of sense, but it's still massively cheating, and only VERY loosely set up in Boom Town). Last of the Time Lords was a deus ex machina, Journey's End was a deus ex machina, and The End of Time was just a very poor resolution. I love the guy, but he's never been great at endings.
@ to be fair it’s set up for the entire series, and the series 4 finale has the pay off to four series worth of arcs, brings in two spin off shows and finishes off a storyline for a character introduced at the end of series 2, connecting elements from each and every series and show. The only one that doesn’t really work is last of the time lords as it’s not explained as well as it could be. But it’s still an amazing episode. RTD’s problem nowadays is he’s just really really bad and has nobody to rein him in or hold him back. So we end up with the worst rated and least watched series of who in the shows history. The man used to be sensational and brought us some of the best Doctor who we’ve ever seen, but he has massively lost the plot. It’s like he’s having a midlife crisis
@obiwankenobi687 My issue with Journey's End is less with the Doctor-Donna (I don't love it, but it's not top of the list of issues I have), and more that there's a machine in the dungeon of the Crucible that can conveniently blow up the entire Dalek Fleet. It feels lazy and out of left-field. I also don't like how he brought in all the people from the spin-off shows and then had them stand around doing nothing for the climax. That felt like a waste. I agree with you on the recent season though. I feel no different about Season 2 (15) than I did about Chibnall's era - I'm just waiting for someone new to come in.
Gotta say that British Sci-Fi hits hard and takes no prisoners. Loved Torchwood and the build on emotions to catch you out at each turn was brilliant. Glad you managed to get through it and see what it was all about
@@christhornycroft3686 oh i didn't know i haven't watched it myself, i do own all 4, just have not gotten around to watching them, have mostly just fallen in love with Star Trek over the last year or two and am currently working my way through all those series and seasons in that show
@@christhornycroft3686I think awful is far too harsh. It starts incredibly well, and still has a lot of great moments throughout. The main problem for me is that they didn't stick to their own, established rules as the season progressed.
@@christhornycroft3686 Nah, it's fine. It's just that it suffers from being the series that came after this absolute masterpiece. If you compare them both, Miracle Day loses out by a lot. That's not because it's awful, but because Children of Earth was so good.
On of the trailers for this season was the opening of episode 5. I remember seeing the trailer on tv and instantly got chills, to think that something happened on earth that would make the doctor turn away from earth is frightening
Man, that scene with Frobisher is seared into my mind. Absolutely devastating. Probably one of the most devastating scenes I’ve ever seen on television
Honestly got emotional and teared up all over again and I've seen it a bunch of times. Thank you for these reactions and watching it as it was intended, it was brilliant to watch. It's such incredible television and these were fantastic reactions.
Great series - I watched this when it aired in 2009 and enjoyed it. It was faced paced and intense. Now that I have an 18 month old daughter it hits much harder. If anyone ever came for her, they would take her over my dead body.
The line "we're up to 80% but people are starting to fight back" Reminds me of the battle of canary wharf where the doctor tells the cybermen "Theyre not taking instructions! You're in their homes! You've got their children! Of course theyre going to fight!"
Incredible television! I have genuinely never seen another show quite like Torchwood series 3. And so many amazing performances. Aside from the main cast, Peter Capaldi and Susan Brown are the real stand outs for me.
Same. Adored it. Nothing can make me watch it ever again. . I probably *will* rewatch it one day, maybe if I ever end up showing Torchwood to my mom (we're working on S1 of DW, slowly), but it won't be happily.
Important to note: they didn’t KILL the 456. They hurt them enough that they ran away. But the threat could always come back. Also, the only children to die were Steven and Frobischer’s daughters, at the hands of humans not the aliens
Someone’s maybe said and you maybe realised, but the scene with Jack at the end of “End of Time” when the Doctor meets him in a bar is after this. He’s still in major depression from the events in this episode, hence sitting on his own getting drunk.
+stephen-dfc FYI, CNR might or might not have reached to that point yet as he has still yet to publish the remainder of the David Tennant Specials so it might be best to edit your comment with a potential spoilers tag before he sees it JIC
I remember living in the middle of nowhere, no good internet signal never mind TV Signal and wishing I was back home in the UK so got someone to download these and Red Dwarf which aired a special around the same time. They dropped off DVDs and I was so glad I had comedy to watch after this. Binged all 5 in one go and was just broken by the end. I even made sure to watch this reaction early today before I had wine. The Frobisher & Steven scenes are still so affective. I'm sure you're enjoying S4, it's it own thing with a great cast.
This is horrible. Frobisher having a horrible PM forcing him to make a terrible choice. Jacks choice mean his daughter will never see him again. Harrowing is an understatement.
The only complaint that I have is that I wish that Jack and Ianto's families had been introduced to us earlier, it would have made the ending more powerful
I just had this thought just now as I was watching this reaction. What if Jack felt he had to sacrifice his grandson to make up for sacrificing other people's children and grandchildren back in 1968? Jack is anything but simple and uncomplicated.
that's exactly what I always thought it was. he didn't want to sacrifice his own grandson but he'd rather endure that pain than inflict the pain of losing a child on another person.
That was a horrible decision by Jack. Killing his own grandson. This series was pure horror and this episode was full of horror. This series should have been the last Torchwood series and Jack final appearance in the Doctor Who universe. He finally admitted to being dangerous to people for just knowing him and being around him just like The Doctor. He run away to protect Gwen just from himself so she doesn’t suffer the same fate as Owen, Tosh and Ianto.
It originally was supposed to be I believe before TW was picked up as co-production by Starz. It was originally going to be scheduled as a reboot on Fox in the US before the deal fell through.
This whole episode breaks me each and every time. They put Frobisher in the line of fire and followed orders and is made to be a example against his wishes. He took the only action he could to save them cause death would be better than a drug for a alien. The army coming after the kids on the threat of the government to make their own families at risk. How fucking horrible is the government to save their own skin and threaten people under them and under their care. Whats even scarier is like last episode its something very viable of happening should this happen in real life. Its great writing where essentially everyone is the villain apart from maybe Gwen & Reece Captain Jack using his own grandson as a filter to send the 456 running was absolutely horrible but notice Jack is the only one watching the whole thing since it would be his punishment to see this and haunt him for the rest of his life. Everyone in the area looks away. Gwen's line about how the doctor would turn away in shame is a very good quote. Im not sure in canon if the doctor ever finds out about this event at all but if he did i wonder what his reaction would be. This situation Im not sure what would happen if the Doctor was here potentially the same way. Sometimes you are only left with bad choices but you still have to pick one
The Doctor definitely knows. If it was some subtle thing that happened in one building in London then maybe he would have missed it, but this was the whole world.
@@ghostsurfer23 he missed that it was christmas and a lot of other things and only stays grounded on earth because of his companions. Since he is travelling alone in this time period it's likely he missed it.
I think if the Doctor were in this story: firstly, the government would be seeking his help (he has a lot more authority than Torchwood, and he wasn't a witness to 1965 that they wanted out of the way); and secondly, he would've defeated them the same way as Jack, but by creating the resonance using a piece of technology rather than transmitting through a child. It's funny, but this story was basically the same plot as The Christmas Invasion. Aliens arrive, scare the population, and demand a specific percentage of the population for slavery or kill billions if the humans refuse. In that story, the Doctor was clowning around, telling jokes, and won the day while showing off and smiling, but it's essentially the same plot as the most harrowing story in the entire Doctor Who universe. It really does show how much of a cheat code having the Doctor around is.
what makes it feel even worse is that Peter Capaldi's character John i think he was called, he sacrificed his family and himself for nothing... yes it would have been the "best thing to do" compared to the alternative of them being taken and used as a euphoric device for some alien species but if he hadn't sacrificed them and himself they would have been fine in the end...
+Cinnamon_Shaey This is true, but I am convinced the Prime Minister would have gotten away with everything had Frobisher not sacrificed himself and his family as it was Frobisher’s sacrifice what ultimately pushed the woman who has an affair with Frobisher over the edge to stab the Prime Minister in the back with the lenses.
I have to have a little respect for Jack not pulling what those government people did, and insist that *his* family is off limits. It was a horrible choice, but there were no choices left. It has to be a kid, and it shows that Jack is good for not going out and finding someone else's child or grandchild to die.
And on to Miracle Day. I kinda feel sorry for it, because it had to follow THIS. There was no way it was going to compete, and people really turned on it because it couldn't compete. I think it's actually a fascinating series, though nothing will be as good as Children of Earth.
I think letting Steven know and offering him a choice…even though he’s a child…might have made it more bearable. Steven choosing to save everyone. I think he would.
Watching this now my main thought is how 80 million people voted for something like this to happen because they think it will make eggs and gas cheaper
i don't think jack waited for alice because he wanted to talk to her. he knew there was never anything he could say that would make up for what just happened. he did it so if she needed to yell at him, beat on him, cry, scream, whatever, he would be there and take it. what she needed was to walk away from him, so that's what he gave her.
Is this a different version of TW Day 5? I swear i remember the scene where Gwen and Rhys are running away with the kids, it had that haunting soundtrack with a voice rather than the more action theme in this reaction!
I’m sure somebody has already said but the general theory from either RTD or Moffat (can’t remember who) is that because The Tenth Doctor saved Capaldi’s character and family in Pompeii, Time itself retaliated by destroying John Frobisher’s family as a way of ‘getting back’ at The Doctor for messing with established history.
Honestly, this entire story was tense, shocking, brutal and downright harrowing ..... and bloody brilliant!! Episode 4 was heartbreaking, & you think it couldn't get worse, get darker - then Episode 5 comes along and drives the knife in, but what great storytelling: hooked from the get-go and it doesn't let go. The 456 were scary, twisted & disgusting ... but our leaders were just coldly emotionless and downright dark & ruthless! Hats off to Capaldi for a great performance: utterly devasting in this episode & heartbreaking on many levels - not least of which: the fact that had he not been able to get a gun, had he not been able to go through with killing his family - they would've been saved in the end.
They saved the kids but there are least 4 dead, Steven and the one in the tank, Frobishers two daughters and then there are 11 still in space somewhere with their faces strapped to aliens
"John Frobisher was a good man.........." Heartbreakingly so! That whole series was traumatic! TV at its absolute best.........but it leaves us wrecked! My own personal opinion is that they should have left it here......
@@christhornycroft3686 I've not watched it since it originally aired, and my memories are hazy at best. I shall watch along with Chris, and see if it is better than I remember.
It's funny, but this story was basically the same plot as The Christmas Invasion. Aliens arrive, scare the population, and demand a specific percentage of the population for slavery or kill billions if the humans refuse. In that story, the Doctor was clowning around, telling jokes, and won the day while showing off and smiling, but it's essentially the same plot as the most harrowing story in the entire Doctor Who universe. It really does show how much of a cheat code having the Doctor around is.
Man, I'm sure this makes me seem like a horrible person, but I've been waiting for you to cry at that Frobisher scene since you started watching Torchwood. Especially the run out of the hiding place, that final montage with Stephen, it broke me every time. To all the people who don't like you because you show emotion, y'all suck. CNR's emotions are some of the best reasons to watch his reactions. Keep on going, can't wait to watch Series 5!
To be fair, its not that different to how humans figured out what in our environment was edible and/or high-inducing. The 456 just took it to an interstellar level. 😉
UNIT was actually there, right alongside the governments. Colonel Oduya, though it's never said explicitly, is the head of the British division of UNIT (he's the one who asks what the aliens plans to do with the kids and find out they're drugs). There was a clue when Lois Habiba says in an earlier epsidoes that the soldier's uniforms aren't that of the British army and wants to know who they are.
They were right in the middle of it. RTD has a VERY different idea of what UNIT fundamentally is during his initial run than it was presented as in the 1970s. They were here, they imprisoned Tosh in a disgusting prison and intended to keep her there without trial forever, etc. They're not the cuddly guys they were in the past in the mid-2000s. Even in the Sarah Jane Adventures, they're not very nice. The Brigadier was the only character they treated like a fundamentally decent guy.
Ah Children of Earth. Every single episode makes you feel worse and worse and worse. It's so well-written and engrossing but I hate every second of it. Absolutely hate it. And that is a GLOWING review. This is the best single season of anything Doctor Who imo. 5 straight bangers all while the Doctor is off having an existential crisis on a big red dust ball. Nobody's having a good time at this point in the Doctor Who timeline except MAYBE Sarah Jane.
This is why Americans are big second amendment people. Because some day you might need to protect your family from the government (not at the moment, thank God)
It's basically canon that what happened with John Frobisher's family was a result of the Doctor's actions in Pompeii. Frobisher is a distant relative of Caecillius whom the Doctor saved. Since Caecillius was never meant to live, Frobisher's family's death was the timeline balancing out.
Unless ALL of the Roman's descendants, and _their_ descendants, over the last 2000 yrs are included in this balancing of the timeline, then it is just so much post-rationalisation bullshit. So, when do those other thousands die, then, eh? 🤷♂
@FahadAyaz Moffat: When I first cast Peter Capaldi as the Doctor I remembered that Russell had said to me that he had a plan to account for the fact that Capaldi turns up in both Doctor Who and Torchwood in different parts. So I wrote to him to ask, 'look, what's the plan? And does it fit?' He said, 'yes! I've worked it out!' He said that it's about - as the Doctor says - asserting his right to save people. His plan was that in the Torchwood episode - which we couldn't really reference as it would have been difficult in that scene - is that the Doctor asserts himself over time by saving Capaldi's character in The Fires of Pompeii and time re-asserts itself by ending that bloodline in the Torchwood episode [when Frobisher finds himself in a situation that forces him into suicide]. And the Doctor says, 'to hell with you time!' And takes that face and brings it back again. It's the Doctor's eternal battle with doom and destiny.
Torchwood S1 rough but it has its moments S2 its better but still has pretty rough edges but definitely a improvement and more enjoyable than S1 S3 where fuck did this level writing come from. Where was this quility of writing in S1&2. The jump in writing writing quility is massive. Minor spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler S4 good story that did not need 10 episodes to tell, so ends up with way to much padding and unnecessary arcs
Children of Earth was a Fantastic conclusion to Torchwood, It's definately some of my favourite episodes. Miracle Day however, sucked, and was made by an American company for an American Audience and produced in America and feels far too inferior. Far as I'm concerned, Children of Earth is the end.
The most frustrating thing about Miracle Day is that there are some really interesting ideas/things it raises that feel like a natural follow-up to CoE, but there's also a whole lot of rubbish in there too.
This is, imo, one of the bleakest episodes of TV I've ever seen Every defeat is soul crushing and every victory comes with a caveat that basically ruins the victory - amazing work from everyone involved
I won't talk crap about season four yet (although boy do I want to), but this was the perfect end for Torchwood. The Doctor made Jack want to be the big hero and he spent over one hundred years playing Captain Jack Harkness, until he pushed it so far that the whole thing came crashing down around him. He reverts to type, the conman running from the consequences of his actions. Jack made Gwen want to be the big hero and she was willing to tear her life apart to chase that glory. In the end she has to stand in the wreckage. No friends, no job, just herself, and the husband and baby she only has because she knows she should. Torchwood ruins your life. Brilliant show. On another note, I know people comment all the time about the expanded universe stuff. Do you tend to consume media for the shows you watch on here if it's not something that content can be made from?
Honestly with Peter capaidi I prefer him as this character, I didn't like his episodes and I didn't like matt Smith much either, or jodie , David and gatwa are my favorite so far
Capaldi's performance.
Always in everything
Is so good that it made it REALLY hard for me to accept him as the Doctor because I hated his character so much.
Episode 4 was heart breaking
Episode 5 is pure horror
This series was so brutal that this is the first time I've rewatched it since it was first broadcast...
Same.
Part 1 takes the oxygen from you.
Part 2 gives you a little air for resuscitation.
Part 3 knocks you to the ground.
Part 4 leaves you for dead.
Part 5? It hands you a shovel to dig your own grave.
The frobisher moment is even more heartbreaking when you rhink about the fact that all the children survived in the end.
@@MichaelJohnson-kq7qg Yes, like the ending of the movie The Mist
All but one... 😔
My review: HARROWING. 10/10.
The more I think about Torchwood the more I think Jack is the most interesting character in all of New Who. He has to make the difficult choices without the Doctor's resources and then has to live with the consequences and guilt. Forever. Ouch
"Should we memorialise him?" - We all had the same idea! Look up Ianto's Shrine when you get the chance, it's a small but actual spot in Cardiff Bay
I was visiting Cardiff in 2015 and I heard about it so I stopped by there to see it. There was a couple looking at the shrine wondering what it was about so I had to tell them it was for a fictional character on a TV show.
Actually, the red blood splattering in the 456's case was probably the children :(
I didnt think of that cause its certainly possible
Probably a good thing given the alternative
When the Working Class dads fight back... lovely. ✊️
Jack had to face the Trolley Problem for real.
Yeah. I like these ethical dilemmas in sci fi. The battle between good and evil becomes way more engaging when you can't tell which is which.
I still think Children of Earth is the best thing RTD has written for the Whoniverse.
He really sticks the landing, and I don't think he's very good at that normally.
One thing that always sticks out to me around the ending is that even though the PM is clearly on the outs, the woman who looks set to take over is the one who was pushing for only certain kids being given to the 456, so it's not like she's not compromised too, even if she's acting all righteous in the wake of the 456's defeat.
Parting of the ways, doomsday, journeys end, waters of Mars, end of time. But nowadays, absolutely not he’s awful
@obiwankenobi687 Doomsday and Waters of Mars are pretty good. I liked Parting of the Ways at the time, but him going back to the whole deus ex machina plot resolution again and again means it's less effective on a re-watch (plus there are massive plotholes if you think about any of it for more than a minute).
I hated Journey's End and the End of Time (not the actual regeneration, which was a bit indulgent but decent), though.
@obiwankenobi687 I love RTD, but he really is the king of the deus ex machina. Doomsday is his only finale that properly worked (MAYBE Parting of the Ways, but while turning Rose into a God for a scene so that she can destroy millions of daleks instantly might make some kind of sense, but it's still massively cheating, and only VERY loosely set up in Boom Town). Last of the Time Lords was a deus ex machina, Journey's End was a deus ex machina, and The End of Time was just a very poor resolution. I love the guy, but he's never been great at endings.
@ to be fair it’s set up for the entire series, and the series 4 finale has the pay off to four series worth of arcs, brings in two spin off shows and finishes off a storyline for a character introduced at the end of series 2, connecting elements from each and every series and show. The only one that doesn’t really work is last of the time lords as it’s not explained as well as it could be. But it’s still an amazing episode.
RTD’s problem nowadays is he’s just really really bad and has nobody to rein him in or hold him back. So we end up with the worst rated and least watched series of who in the shows history. The man used to be sensational and brought us some of the best Doctor who we’ve ever seen, but he has massively lost the plot. It’s like he’s having a midlife crisis
@obiwankenobi687 My issue with Journey's End is less with the Doctor-Donna (I don't love it, but it's not top of the list of issues I have), and more that there's a machine in the dungeon of the Crucible that can conveniently blow up the entire Dalek Fleet. It feels lazy and out of left-field.
I also don't like how he brought in all the people from the spin-off shows and then had them stand around doing nothing for the climax. That felt like a waste.
I agree with you on the recent season though. I feel no different about Season 2 (15) than I did about Chibnall's era - I'm just waiting for someone new to come in.
Gotta say that British Sci-Fi hits hard and takes no prisoners. Loved Torchwood and the build on emotions to catch you out at each turn was brilliant. Glad you managed to get through it and see what it was all about
there is still series 4 to get through
@@Cinnamon_Shaeydon’t tell him that. It’s awful.
@@christhornycroft3686 oh i didn't know i haven't watched it myself, i do own all 4, just have not gotten around to watching them, have mostly just fallen in love with Star Trek over the last year or two and am currently working my way through all those series and seasons in that show
@@christhornycroft3686I think awful is far too harsh. It starts incredibly well, and still has a lot of great moments throughout. The main problem for me is that they didn't stick to their own, established rules as the season progressed.
@@christhornycroft3686 Nah, it's fine. It's just that it suffers from being the series that came after this absolute masterpiece. If you compare them both, Miracle Day loses out by a lot. That's not because it's awful, but because Children of Earth was so good.
On of the trailers for this season was the opening of episode 5. I remember seeing the trailer on tv and instantly got chills, to think that something happened on earth that would make the doctor turn away from earth is frightening
When I first came accross Torchwood, it wasn't until the Third season that I realized that ""Torchwood"" was an anagram of ""Doctor Who""
Man, that scene with Frobisher is seared into my mind. Absolutely devastating. Probably one of the most devastating scenes I’ve ever seen on television
I love that you called the 456 the ‘Splattergoo’ until the very end 😂
Honestly got emotional and teared up all over again and I've seen it a bunch of times. Thank you for these reactions and watching it as it was intended, it was brilliant to watch. It's such incredible television and these were fantastic reactions.
Great series - I watched this when it aired in 2009 and enjoyed it. It was faced paced and intense.
Now that I have an 18 month old daughter it hits much harder. If anyone ever came for her, they would take her over my dead body.
One other British show id recommend is life on mars. If you like doctor who, you'll like that
Seconded! Plus a few familiar faces from DW 👀
My personal name for the 456 has always been: three-headed swan from hell
The line "we're up to 80% but people are starting to fight back"
Reminds me of the battle of canary wharf where the doctor tells the cybermen "Theyre not taking instructions! You're in their homes! You've got their children! Of course theyre going to fight!"
" I'm really very sorry . . . and I'm really very busy."
Now you see why all of us were so keen for you to get to season 3 and 4!
Incredible television! I have genuinely never seen another show quite like Torchwood series 3. And so many amazing performances. Aside from the main cast, Peter Capaldi and Susan Brown are the real stand outs for me.
This was amazing TV and I've never been able to rewatch it.
Same. Adored it. Nothing can make me watch it ever again.
.
I probably *will* rewatch it one day, maybe if I ever end up showing Torchwood to my mom (we're working on S1 of DW, slowly), but it won't be happily.
@@miggyluv I barely made it through Chris' reaction videos!
Important to note: they didn’t KILL the 456. They hurt them enough that they ran away. But the threat could always come back.
Also, the only children to die were Steven and Frobischer’s daughters, at the hands of humans not the aliens
Ooh I'd not even thought about that last point! Good eye!
More to the point, Steven and Frobisher’s daughters we’re killed by their own flesh and blood
Frobisher's youngest daughter played young Rose in "Father's Day."
Someone’s maybe said and you maybe realised, but the scene with Jack at the end of “End of Time” when the Doctor meets him in a bar is after this. He’s still in major depression from the events in this episode, hence sitting on his own getting drunk.
+stephen-dfc
FYI, CNR might or might not have reached to that point yet as he has still yet to publish the remainder of the David Tennant Specials so it might be best to edit your comment with a potential spoilers tag before he sees it JIC
@ yeah I did check before posting this to see if he’s seen the End of Time, all good, he has!
"Let's take some chemicals from other species and see how it feels."
Here, lick this toad, then eat this mushroom.
I remember living in the middle of nowhere, no good internet signal never mind TV Signal and wishing I was back home in the UK so got someone to download these and Red Dwarf which aired a special around the same time. They dropped off DVDs and I was so glad I had comedy to watch after this. Binged all 5 in one go and was just broken by the end. I even made sure to watch this reaction early today before I had wine. The Frobisher & Steven scenes are still so affective. I'm sure you're enjoying S4, it's it own thing with a great cast.
Oh I bet Alice hates bringing her dad back now😂😂😂😢😢😢
An object lesson in applied utilitarianism, basically. Utterly devastating.
This is horrible. Frobisher having a horrible PM forcing him to make a terrible choice. Jacks choice mean his daughter will never see him again. Harrowing is an understatement.
The only complaint that I have is that I wish that Jack and Ianto's families had been introduced to us earlier, it would have made the ending more powerful
I just had this thought just now as I was watching this reaction. What if Jack felt he had to sacrifice his grandson to make up for sacrificing other people's children and grandchildren back in 1968? Jack is anything but simple and uncomplicated.
that's exactly what I always thought it was. he didn't want to sacrifice his own grandson but he'd rather endure that pain than inflict the pain of losing a child on another person.
That was a horrible decision by Jack. Killing his own grandson. This series was pure horror and this episode was full of horror. This series should have been the last Torchwood series and Jack final appearance in the Doctor Who universe. He finally admitted to being dangerous to people for just knowing him and being around him just like The Doctor. He run away to protect Gwen just from himself so she doesn’t suffer the same fate as Owen, Tosh and Ianto.
It originally was supposed to be I believe before TW was picked up as co-production by Starz. It was originally going to be scheduled as a reboot on Fox in the US before the deal fell through.
This whole episode breaks me each and every time. They put Frobisher in the line of fire and followed orders and is made to be a example against his wishes. He took the only action he could to save them cause death would be better than a drug for a alien.
The army coming after the kids on the threat of the government to make their own families at risk. How fucking horrible is the government to save their own skin and threaten people under them and under their care. Whats even scarier is like last episode its something very viable of happening should this happen in real life. Its great writing where essentially everyone is the villain apart from maybe Gwen & Reece
Captain Jack using his own grandson as a filter to send the 456 running was absolutely horrible but notice Jack is the only one watching the whole thing since it would be his punishment to see this and haunt him for the rest of his life. Everyone in the area looks away.
Gwen's line about how the doctor would turn away in shame is a very good quote. Im not sure in canon if the doctor ever finds out about this event at all but if he did i wonder what his reaction would be. This situation Im not sure what would happen if the Doctor was here potentially the same way. Sometimes you are only left with bad choices but you still have to pick one
The Doctor definitely knows. If it was some subtle thing that happened in one building in London then maybe he would have missed it, but this was the whole world.
@@ghostsurfer23 he missed that it was christmas and a lot of other things and only stays grounded on earth because of his companions. Since he is travelling alone in this time period it's likely he missed it.
I think if the Doctor were in this story: firstly, the government would be seeking his help (he has a lot more authority than Torchwood, and he wasn't a witness to 1965 that they wanted out of the way); and secondly, he would've defeated them the same way as Jack, but by creating the resonance using a piece of technology rather than transmitting through a child. It's funny, but this story was basically the same plot as The Christmas Invasion. Aliens arrive, scare the population, and demand a specific percentage of the population for slavery or kill billions if the humans refuse. In that story, the Doctor was clowning around, telling jokes, and won the day while showing off and smiling, but it's essentially the same plot as the most harrowing story in the entire Doctor Who universe. It really does show how much of a cheat code having the Doctor around is.
@@somerandomguy2073It's extremely similar to The Christmas Invasion, and it proves that Harriet Jones WAS right.
I like to think that the Doctor was aware of this event but it was a point in time that he couldn't interfere with.
what makes it feel even worse is that Peter Capaldi's character John i think he was called, he sacrificed his family and himself for nothing... yes it would have been the "best thing to do" compared to the alternative of them being taken and used as a euphoric device for some alien species but if he hadn't sacrificed them and himself they would have been fine in the end...
+Cinnamon_Shaey
This is true, but I am convinced the Prime Minister would have gotten away with everything had Frobisher not sacrificed himself and his family as it was Frobisher’s sacrifice what ultimately pushed the woman who has an affair with Frobisher over the edge to stab the Prime Minister in the back with the lenses.
@tinyguy9398 true, I didn't think about that! Good point
What Human had the idea to Smoke a Plant ? Roast and drink a Fruit ? Let Milk rot until it was cheese ?
... Lick a frog?
i think you're going to love peter capaldi as the doctor :)
I have to have a little respect for Jack not pulling what those government people did, and insist that *his* family is off limits. It was a horrible choice, but there were no choices left. It has to be a kid, and it shows that Jack is good for not going out and finding someone else's child or grandchild to die.
And on to Miracle Day. I kinda feel sorry for it, because it had to follow THIS. There was no way it was going to compete, and people really turned on it because it couldn't compete. I think it's actually a fascinating series, though nothing will be as good as Children of Earth.
I think letting Steven know and offering him a choice…even though he’s a child…might have made it more bearable. Steven choosing to save everyone. I think he would.
Watching this now my main thought is how 80 million people voted for something like this to happen because they think it will make eggs and gas cheaper
i don't think jack waited for alice because he wanted to talk to her. he knew there was never anything he could say that would make up for what just happened. he did it so if she needed to yell at him, beat on him, cry, scream, whatever, he would be there and take it. what she needed was to walk away from him, so that's what he gave her.
Is this a different version of TW Day 5? I swear i remember the scene where Gwen and Rhys are running away with the kids, it had that haunting soundtrack with a voice rather than the more action theme in this reaction!
Oh yeah, that rings a bell actually!
Jack's appearence in end of time takes place after this i believe
I’m sure somebody has already said but the general theory from either RTD or Moffat (can’t remember who) is that because The Tenth Doctor saved Capaldi’s character and family in Pompeii, Time itself retaliated by destroying John Frobisher’s family as a way of ‘getting back’ at The Doctor for messing with established history.
Davies.
Honestly, this entire story was tense, shocking, brutal and downright harrowing ..... and bloody brilliant!!
Episode 4 was heartbreaking, & you think it couldn't get worse, get darker - then Episode 5 comes along and drives the knife in, but what great storytelling: hooked from the get-go and it doesn't let go. The 456 were scary, twisted & disgusting ... but our leaders were just coldly emotionless and downright dark & ruthless!
Hats off to Capaldi for a great performance: utterly devasting in this episode & heartbreaking on many levels - not least of which: the fact that had he not been able to get a gun, had he not been able to go through with killing his family - they would've been saved in the end.
Breaking news: Aliens visit Earth to use children as vape pens.
In all seriousness, though, Gwen's monologue is haunting; gets me every time.
This episode still hurts.
They saved the kids but there are least 4 dead, Steven and the one in the tank, Frobishers two daughters and then there are 11 still in space somewhere with their faces strapped to aliens
"John Frobisher was a good man.........." Heartbreakingly so!
That whole series was traumatic! TV at its absolute best.........but it leaves us wrecked!
My own personal opinion is that they should have left it here......
Going American was a terrible idea. Jack’s character was destroyed.
@@christhornycroft3686 I've not watched it since it originally aired, and my memories are hazy at best. I shall watch along with Chris, and see if it is better than I remember.
It's funny, but this story was basically the same plot as The Christmas Invasion. Aliens arrive, scare the population, and demand a specific percentage of the population for slavery or kill billions if the humans refuse. In that story, the Doctor was clowning around, telling jokes, and won the day while showing off and smiling, but it's essentially the same plot as the most harrowing story in the entire Doctor Who universe. It really does show how much of a cheat code having the Doctor around is.
He is exceptional. Goodness has nothing to do with it.
Man, I'm sure this makes me seem like a horrible person, but I've been waiting for you to cry at that Frobisher scene since you started watching Torchwood. Especially the run out of the hiding place, that final montage with Stephen, it broke me every time.
To all the people who don't like you because you show emotion, y'all suck. CNR's emotions are some of the best reasons to watch his reactions. Keep on going, can't wait to watch Series 5!
To be fair, its not that different to how humans figured out what in our environment was edible and/or high-inducing. The 456 just took it to an interstellar level. 😉
Louise was supposed to be Martha, but she couldn't appear due to scheduling.
Is it that there is one more episode or season? Or the last season is two episodes or something?
Season 4 is next and it has 10 episodes. It will be be released weekly starting on December 11th.
14:20 the moment she tells them to bring the very man that’s about to destroy her life
Oh fucccc I remember how this ends😢😢😢😢
"Should we mamorialise him?" already done mate, but hey that's somewhere you can check out if ever visit Cardiff😅
Jack made a choice so his daughter shouldn't have do it
The scariest thing is knowing our governments could do something like this. It just takes the 'right' circumstances.
Where is the doctor!!!!!!
16:34 I have said and I will always say. America may have a history in being the best at movies but Britain is the best at TV.
This episode wrecked me when I first watched it. I never forgave Jack for it. He's still trash. This series was freaking harrowing.
So damn great
All you can think watching this is where is UNIT they would of never let this happen they would fight b4 anything else
UNIT was actually there, right alongside the governments. Colonel Oduya, though it's never said explicitly, is the head of the British division of UNIT (he's the one who asks what the aliens plans to do with the kids and find out they're drugs).
There was a clue when Lois Habiba says in an earlier epsidoes that the soldier's uniforms aren't that of the British army and wants to know who they are.
They were right in the middle of it. RTD has a VERY different idea of what UNIT fundamentally is during his initial run than it was presented as in the 1970s. They were here, they imprisoned Tosh in a disgusting prison and intended to keep her there without trial forever, etc. They're not the cuddly guys they were in the past in the mid-2000s. Even in the Sarah Jane Adventures, they're not very nice. The Brigadier was the only character they treated like a fundamentally decent guy.
I don't think it's controversial to say that series 4 isn't as good as Children of Earth.
Ah Children of Earth. Every single episode makes you feel worse and worse and worse. It's so well-written and engrossing but I hate every second of it. Absolutely hate it. And that is a GLOWING review. This is the best single season of anything Doctor Who imo. 5 straight bangers all while the Doctor is off having an existential crisis on a big red dust ball. Nobody's having a good time at this point in the Doctor Who timeline except MAYBE Sarah Jane.
They shouldn't have made S4 after this.
They’ve changed the music over the last scenes of them getting and killing Steven. The original is a lot more powerful
This is why Americans are big second amendment people. Because some day you might need to protect your family from the government (not at the moment, thank God)
It's basically canon that what happened with John Frobisher's family was a result of the Doctor's actions in Pompeii. Frobisher is a distant relative of Caecillius whom the Doctor saved. Since Caecillius was never meant to live, Frobisher's family's death was the timeline balancing out.
Unless ALL of the Roman's descendants, and _their_ descendants, over the last 2000 yrs are included in this balancing of the timeline, then it is just so much post-rationalisation bullshit. So, when do those other thousands die, then, eh? 🤷♂
I'm not sure that it is lol
@FahadAyaz Moffat: When I first cast Peter Capaldi as the Doctor I remembered that Russell had said to me that he had a plan to account for the fact that Capaldi turns up in both Doctor Who and Torchwood in different parts. So I wrote to him to ask, 'look, what's the plan? And does it fit?' He said, 'yes! I've worked it out!'
He said that it's about - as the Doctor says - asserting his right to save people. His plan was that in the Torchwood episode - which we couldn't really reference as it would have been difficult in that scene - is that the Doctor asserts himself over time by saving Capaldi's character in The Fires of Pompeii and time re-asserts itself by ending that bloodline in the Torchwood episode [when Frobisher finds himself in a situation that forces him into suicide]. And the Doctor says, 'to hell with you time!' And takes that face and brings it back again. It's the Doctor's eternal battle with doom and destiny.
Torchwood
S1 rough but it has its moments
S2 its better but still has pretty rough edges but definitely a improvement and more enjoyable than S1
S3 where fuck did this level writing come from. Where was this quility of writing in S1&2.
The jump in writing writing quility is massive.
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S4 good story that did not need 10 episodes to tell, so ends up with way to much padding and unnecessary arcs
Children of Earth was a Fantastic conclusion to Torchwood, It's definately some of my favourite episodes.
Miracle Day however, sucked, and was made by an American company for an American Audience and produced in America and feels far too inferior. Far as I'm concerned, Children of Earth is the end.
The most frustrating thing about Miracle Day is that there are some really interesting ideas/things it raises that feel like a natural follow-up to CoE, but there's also a whole lot of rubbish in there too.
This is, imo, one of the bleakest episodes of TV I've ever seen
Every defeat is soul crushing and every victory comes with a caveat that basically ruins the victory - amazing work from everyone involved
Potentially spoiler question DONT LOOK
what exactly happened to Lois after coe
She joined faction paradox /s
@ fraction paradox of Kelsey hooper fame
So so upsettng. The ending upset me so much twenty -some years ago. Still kind of angry over it.
It aired in 2009.....15 years ago
I won't talk crap about season four yet (although boy do I want to), but this was the perfect end for Torchwood. The Doctor made Jack want to be the big hero and he spent over one hundred years playing Captain Jack Harkness, until he pushed it so far that the whole thing came crashing down around him. He reverts to type, the conman running from the consequences of his actions. Jack made Gwen want to be the big hero and she was willing to tear her life apart to chase that glory. In the end she has to stand in the wreckage. No friends, no job, just herself, and the husband and baby she only has because she knows she should. Torchwood ruins your life. Brilliant show.
On another note, I know people comment all the time about the expanded universe stuff. Do you tend to consume media for the shows you watch on here if it's not something that content can be made from?
Honestly with Peter capaidi I prefer him as this character, I didn't like his episodes and I didn't like matt Smith much either, or jodie , David and gatwa are my favorite so far