There's lots of good games, emulation is better than ever to play old games, the indie scene is fantastic, and steam has AAA games on sale regularly. You are just too old or boring to care. This is the best year for metroidvania, rpg, and fighting games. Fps has dozens of contenders and rpgs like sea of stars, Zelda, baldursrs gate, and final fantasy. It's not them; it's you.
Because the perfect gpu at the time is the Rx 6700xt the only one with high VRAM, fast and affordable. It is a disgrace what's going on with the new gpu releases in both brands. Also most new games that are worth playing run well in old generation because they are also being launched for ps4
People are not caring because Nvidia and AMD have kept their prices high after the crypto boom and bust, they still seem to think gamers are willing to pay a ridiculous price for a GPU. We're gamers, not miners.
They sort of are in Europe tho; the 4070 Super and the 4070Ti Super both got sold out very easily in a bunch of countries here (not sure about ALL of them but from what I read, people pay big money for the new gpus - and they're even more expensive here than in the US, like a 4070 ti super was $830 converted where I live, NOT AT ALL $600)
Yet people still keep buying them or companies (sadly can't win against that) otherwise they wouldn't cost as much right now while we speak, we don't see a massive discounts happening. Somebody is still willing to pay this much.
@@Zaefnyr Moore's Law is Dead has reported that the Super series was released in small numbers, especially the 4070Ti Super. Selling out in this volume is not impressive.
and good games are not being made, its mostly casino style mobile now. They love to make stores and DLC's but they hate to polish and release a complete game.
imo, the only good game thats demanding is 100% alan wake 2. if you’re playing on pc and want to play alan waks 2, i’d atleast have a 3070 or higher to have one of the best gaming experiences imo. alan wake is so fucking good man…
@@SupG-oy4le you wont regret it! while alan wake 2 has a bad rep in the pc world for being “unoptimized”, i’d say its like the crysis 2013 situation where it took up to i think the GTX 10 series to run crysis at max setting? this is the same situation as alan wake 2. doesnt defeat the fact that it is an absolute underrated gem.
Well the PS5 is kinda below average now being that most games struggle at even doing 4k not just 60fps. So these so called mid range gpus are actually way better than a PS5 which is like two generations old in graphics performance. The 4070 super is waaaaaaaay better than a PS5, hell it would be awesome if the PS5 had something similar to a 4070 super in it.
@@ghstbstr Windows games no longer look better on an RTX XX70 card than they do on a ps5, and i have a 3090 (which is a tad bit better than a 4070). No one games at 4K (it's a thoroughly stupid idea on any display smaller than ~40") and steam hardware stats demonstrate that (3.78%)
@@ghstbstr Yep, when a Nvidia 60 series card like the 4060 beats out the PS5, then you've gotta ask can a PS5 even judged as being equivalent to a mid-range GPU anymore. I'd now call the PS5 as being equal to a upper budget range GPU at best. TBH, at launch it was judged as being equivalent to a mid to lower mid-range GPU, so it's no surprise that it's slipped down the stack a fair bit during that time. Also a 4060, 6700 and 6700XT will all beat out the PS5 in most scenarios and all of them can be picked up for $330 or under. Which is not exactly more costly than a PS5.
@@BOZ_11 Most PS5 games use a mix of medium or high graphic settings, whilst a PC can go full hog and use Ultra settings across the board. Admittedly, it's not as huge a leap as it used to be in the past, simply because we've now reached a point of "realism" in games, where any improvements are just harder to make out and only look more minor. The closer that graphics get to looking realistic, then the less noticeable any improvements to them will become. However, one bonus to having more powerful GPU's on PC, is the higher frame rates and higher resolutions that they bring. Let's face it, the consoles are only mid cycle on their generation and we are already seeing several games on them now running in resolutions below 1440p (down to 720p at times) and frame rates capped at 30fps. On PC, pretty much only the most strapped for cash PC gamer or those with a PC Handheld would even put up with playing games in 30fps, these days.
The GPUs are only one side of the problem. I personally hate that games are becoming more demanding without looking significantly better than games that are 5-10 years old at this point. For example the comparison between Suicide Squad and Arkham Knight really showed that some studios are even going backwards in their graphics quality, while the system requirements are still going higher.
Its because they replaced all the genius coders with various woke idiots that can barely code but as everyone is equally idiotic they don't see the problems. Its so hard to find the old school genius coders who lived for it, now you have most people just doing it as a job with no passion because they think they will get rich. Also gaming has become a factory for making money and nothing else, so you do see people trying new things when they can just churn out call of duty 35 and the idiots buy this garbage up. When is the last time a game like Thief 1 and 2 came out that were amazing. I just started playing starfield and its just boring and empty, its garbage.
@@mrmm1110 optimization is a thing of the past, the ya gotta pay to play thing is obvious with games but the lack of 'optimization' on the gpu and games sides are more glaring than that now aday.. nothing hurts more than knowing you dropped $1000+usd on a gpu(which struggled with driver issues for over a year to perform proper in VR while being touted as a flagship card!!$#~! *cough* 7900xtx *cough* 🤦♂ ) to find out it's struggling with games more so because of optimization.. its almost like after the rx580/gtx1080ti(2017) days we've been buying an unfinished product for too much money with bandaid fixes or shell out and buy the next generation flagship to get the BS we're promised.(*WHICH DOESNT HAPPEN LOL*)
@@ATomRileyAI thought it was just me, as a 38 year old I’ve seen it all in gaming. Almost all games that come out now bore the ever living crap out of me. I think I’ve become Jaded knowing how far the gaming industry has fallen. I used to wish for the days it would stop being nerdy and be more mainstream. Now I wish it was niche again and every e girl on the planet wasn’t trying to become a streamer by playing apex legends all day.
People stopped caring cause the prices went off the roof. Sub 700$ there's basically nothing you couldn't get similar performance on last generation cards for about similar amount of money. And sub 500$ is even worse. Just adding more vram doesnt make a card worth buying if the raster performance is within margin of error from last gen
Are you stupid???😂😂😂 Or you thing that 3090ti is really last generation or flagship of 30 series??? The true flagships of 30 series where 3090 and 3080, 3090ti was added in the last month! Of 30 series! You have 4070, 4070 super that beat 3080, and 4070 super is like 3090. 4070ti and 4070ti super beats even that fake flagship of 30 series the 3090ti, and 4080 and 4080 super is 25%-30% batter than 3090ti(again the fake flagship of 30 series), 4090 is 60% better than 3090ti(again the fake flagship of last generation). It's a legendary generation.
Nowadays it's hard to get your hands on a 4090. The recent AI fad means that they sell like hotcakes. Which is ridiculous considering that it's a $2000+ GPU in most markets. I'm interested to see what happens when the AI bubble bursts. Are we gonna get 4090s for dirt cheap when the crappy companies die off?
I'm new to GPUs, just starting to look at a gaming PC over gaming consoles. From what I gather, it seems since 2020 that maybe the makers out there are just putting out something of minimal improvement over the last gen, hoping to get a bunch of buyers, then releasing something a little better to get the braggers and always-have-to-have-the-newest card out there, rinse and repeat. Last week I pulled the trigger on an open-box 4060 Ti 16GB OC for $415. I'm hoping this gets me a decent entry level experience on an old budget Xeon E5 build.
@@Shadow_Banned_Conservative 10 years ago, that tier of card should have never been higher than $300. The recent overpriced stagnation kills me. Here's to making my 2070 last another four years...
That's kind of the thing though... a GPU is basically just a separate computer that you plug into your main computer. A GPU board has the processor core, attached to a main board that has power delivery and I/O, through which the RAM is attached, and there's a cooler slapped on so the thing doesn't melt itself. That's basically the core of any other computer. Then you just get a PSU to feed your main computer and the small computer attached to it, some storage to store files to feed both computers, and a case to throw it all in. And if you've budgeted well, since gaming is, generally speaking, GPU limited, you're buying a higher end graphics specialized computer than your main computer. The current market is definitely overpriced at the moment... but it shouldn't be that strange for a GPU to cost more than the rest of your core components combined. You are, essentially, buying two computers.
This is why I shop AMD, got my 5700XT Nitro+ on sale for an absolute steal like 4 years ago and have been enjoying it ever since. Buying higher end or even top end cards from NVIDIA is a waste imo... AMD always has better bang for the buck in raw performance. "b-but ray-tracing and DLSS!!" DLSS really only works half the time, and doesn't make up the difference if you can get in an AMD card that's 30% better in raw performance for less money. On top of that damn near everyone I've spoken to turns ray-tracing off to get more FPS over a few extra reflections and shadow's, even with 4080's in their rig they still turn it off. I've considered upgrading to a 7900 XTX but there's honestly no real need, I can count on one hand the number of games I've ran into that forced my 5700XT to drop setting from Ultra to High. That's also a reason why GPU's don't matter anymore, we've kinda hit a wall with graphics in games, most current gen game aren't a massive leap over last gen, most people like me that had a decent rig 5+ years ago aren't looking at their system in new game and going: "damn I really NEED an upgrade."
We don't care about it in Brazil anymore simply because no one can buy them. Like, we earn anywhere between 9 to 19x less than other countries yet at best case scenario possible, we pay 2,5x the MSRP of everything, at bad scenarios... well, equivalent to YEARS of rent and more than 2 cars would cost, enough to buy a high-grade super bike. We earn barely enough to pay for electricity alone, let alone paying months of rent or even years of it on a computer part. Imagine a 4080 costing $4000 MINIMUM while you earn about $290 a month. Yeah, it is THIS bad outside the US and why PC gaming is not as popular as it should be. It's a rich people-only hobby.
This is way too real. People outside America earn more than two times less than them while paying twice or more their prices. For any Americans reading this, imagine a 4080 costing $4000, that's the converted price you pay BEST CASE SCENARIO if you live outside the US.
It’s literally because of your government. You guys have ridiculous tariffs on electronics that serve no benefit besides keeping the population years (if not a decade) behind technologically.
@@johnmoore1495 they do everything possible so the country produces as little as possible. It has been proven time and time again what makes a country productive, yet they take the exact OPPOSITE ways of making things better. Also, they always give the same excuse for these unfair and abusive taxes, saying that it is to protect the "national industry", I am missing the part where brazil has ever produced eletronics in its whole existence. Let alone the most important and advanced eletronics on the planet.
@@wallachia4797 Imagine paying $4000+ for a computer part while you earn on average $290/$300 a month... this country makes people SICK. We are beyond done with this place and all this bs. I still remember when a 3090 was costing over $7000... a 3080 $3000... we earn from $290 to $300 on average... people are só DONE with brazil. In a while we are gonna have to pay taxes to breathe. We work 5 months a year just to pay taxes... this place is unbelievable, it's so bad most people would refuse to believe how bad this place is and call bs on the allegations.
@@POLARTTYRTM yeah it makes no sense when you have no tech industry to begin with. Honestly tariffs really only work when you’re a top country putting tariffs on a country with low power, otherwise it gets incredibly messy due to retaliation.
This happened in a lot of a different areas of consumerism. But there seems to be a trend back towards budget friendly products. I think we will see a shift in the market in the next 5 years. Currently the GPU market is inaccessible to new entry level builders and they are a huge share of the market, and companies don't want to leave that money on the table. so they will be coming for the budget minded builders pockets soon.
True, a GPU 4090 for 2.300$ you can get a great profit in that...BUT...there are 2 problems: 1º You have a super resource for play "games" and watch porno (Inefficient market), its like a buy a truck for go to the supermarket (Trucks sellers are so happy of course). 2º They are expelling the gaming community from the PC, so it is not surprising that the world of video games on mobile phones has exploded in the last years. cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/ywAViVcHwrZRZTfnJ4aDTK-650-80.jpg.webp
The reason the GPU market is cooling off is that significant performance upgrades are hidden behind a paywall too steep for the majority of the enthusiasts. The fact that prices cuts spontaneously happen when inventory becomes an issue is adding insult to the injury and amplify the customers dissatisfaction with the major brands. It will become fashionable to root for Intel ARC when they get their performance on par.
It's cooling off because these companies failed to realize a nice portion of their sales were rich people trying to mine bitcoin. Now that THAT has cooled off, their sales dropped.
If gamer gpus don't sell, can Nvidia just use fab production space to make professional GPUs? It's the same die size right? for like mid-range cards at least? I say this because there is no point for Nvidia to cater to gamers if the margins are just better for professionals, apart from market share. Sure HMB2 memory is more costly but that's in the price. I suspect we will see gamer gpu sales continue to drop in the earnings reports.
At this point high end PC gaming is reserved for people with a job willing to invest that much into their hobby. Which excludes quite a number of young people.
indeed, the new flagship from nvidida for companies is a freaking beast. And no, 99.999999% of the consumers won't buy it since it costs around €50000.
I'm an old gamer, and the main thing I've changed over the years is my patience level. I have conquered my FOMO, and am now never an early adopter of anything involving computer hardware or games. Let everyone else pay to beta test games and gear.
Yeah, at 31, I’m starting to feel that way too. It’s all just a scam to get you to buy the latest card. If you’re at 60fps on 1080p, you’re probably doing just fine. That’s what consoles are at anyway. I honestly don’t play all that much anymore. I still play games with my son, but I’ve pretty much replaced my own video games with computer hacking. I have been emulating the RE1 remake on dolphin these past couple days tho, I don’t study when I’m sick like I have been 😂 It’s kinda crazy how much more love was put into old games. The new ones are all just micro transactions and cash grabs for “AAA” studios.
@@countvonthizzle9623 that’s why I use Linux. Ever since steam came out with the steam deck (steam OS is Linux), Linux gaming has REALLY improved. Even some of the best titles run better through proton than they do on windows.
@@niklazz7037Hopefully Intel joining the GPU game can create some real competition and lower prices. The Arc A770 was solid value from all the videos and reviews I've seen about it, so the upcoming Battlemage line could be big.
I used to be so much into gaming but lately the industry has been doing a great job at making me not want to come back. Looking at game prices, shameless live service games, gpu prices. The industry is pushing me away and I doubt I am alone feeling like this.
I agree completely. Besides the bad value for money of cards, there just aren't compelling games to play that require such powerful cards. I'm still rockin a 2060 and it ran that abomination Bethesda released last year no problem.
same, thats why i have mostly played indie games since the ps2 era ended. Other than some specific games from companies that show some good will, no way im "buying" (renting) some bs "AAA" game thats full of gambling mechanist to try to manipulate me into paying more than its worth and also full of DRM
Another thing you haven't mentioned is that new AAA games becoming more demanding and less optimized has caused more people to roll back to less demanding indie titles.
@@roqeyt3566Or by the least old low tier graphics cards. There are still some indie titles that require a slight gpu muscle, but still not as much as AAAs.
This. I expect games to run 144Hz at 1440p, if they don’t I’ll play games that will and wait for optimizations, if my hardware is capable of it I won’t waste time with games that aren’t.
I think Doom 2016 was the last title that actually cared about optimization. Like, actually put a lot of time and effort into making it run well across a vast spectrum of machines at release (and even on linux, huh). They knew it was a demanding game, and they knew they had to optimize it well for it to sell well. And they nailed it, just like they crushed the apprehension about it actually being a good game and not another Duke Nukem disaster remake.
Everyone remembers the abuse video card companies did to their customers during the last crypto boom. i.e. Selling in bulk to miners while claiming they are not.
Lol wait so basically they kept giving us inflated prices for gpus cause they were out....because they were purposely selling to miners, that's beautiful...-.-
Its killed any passion i had in PC gaming. I'm like whatever at this point. Will very likely just keep running my 2 Dell Optis with 1050s until AMD comes out with an APU that pushes out RX 580 tier graphics. IDAGF anymore. There are no games coming out anyway and 4K at 120hz does absolutely nothing to excite me. I grew up in the 80s and 90 when real graphical leaps were happening.
We are not looking for better graphics anymore, we're just looking for a stable performance in today's gaming era, because companies expect graphic cards to fix the lack of polishment they deliver to their own games
What killed my interest was the scalpers buying up all the inventory and charging insane prices for it. When the card makers saw how much the scalpers were getting, they said we want a bunch more too. I'm just riding out my old build till it dies, it's running everything I do just fine for now.
1. Lackluster improvements from generation to generation if any (while costing significantly more). 2. The total lack of focus on the budget and midrange cards that 95% customers go for (xx50, xx60, xx70). 3. The complete lack of touch with reality. GPU manufacturers still think we're in 2020 and people are willing to pay obscene prices for a GPU.
yeah, I mean the lack of new revolutionary features with the gnu's it just pathetic and the cost is sky rocketing. the new feature now days are just rehashes of the old ones nothing new comes out any more like shadow play was new a long time ago they promise us ai but where is it as a free download nowhere to be found.
Bro we had a huge global inflation. Basically speaking every country went full socialism mode and printed loads of money. Everything is more expensive. Have you checked food prices prior 2020 and now? Blame the politicians and their socialist ideas
@@visitante-pc5zc yeah good luck on that idea kiddo with your playschool printer they just added a bunch of money to the online banking system eliminating the need to print more money out cause don' Tcha know moneys expensive to print easier just to add ones and zeros in the banks computers
People hate it because the fundamentals of gaming has changed. It's no longer fun gaming hobby but a constant job like cash grab. Every game treats you like it's your job to play them. On top of that, the hardware itself is no longer fun. Everything is exciting until you look into the price which makes it no longer exciting. Imagine the 4070ti coming in at 600$. It totally can. That would have bought in the excitement again.
@@nttinvis No, the 4070 super should be 500$. The 3080 is 90% of its performance so it would only make sense if the 4070 Super is 500$. Thats how the 3070 was priced and so was the 2070.
@@nttinvis The 7900XT is now at 700$ which is finally the right price. It costs the same as the 6800XT/3080 and performs 40% faster. The right generational leap. Similarly the 7800XT is on the 3080 12GB level and costs 500$. Perfect pricing.
I agree the live service model has been a disaster for console and pc gaming. I despized it way back when it was prevelent in the mobile market with gacha games and a bunch of non gamers in suits just want to cram it in everything because $$$.
Bro I love paying more while wages are stagnant and purchasing power decreases everyday. I'm glad It's just inflation and it's fair :). They definitely aren't scamming us
@@mnemonix1315 And that's fine if you make 6 figures or have literally zero expenses. But when the GPU, CPU, FoodPU, GasPU, MortgagePU, etc are all shooting up at the same time, gaming is the first thing that's going to get neglected... DLSS is the only reason I can run modern AAA games, not that it even matters since everything I play these days that isn't Elden Ring will run on a TI83 Plus, lol
I bought a 4060 for $300 recently (upgraded from the legendary 1070) and am happy with it so far, got me 75fps in CP77 with high raytracing which would have been unheard of a few years back. While it does suck we don't see the incremental improvements for so cheap that we used to, I think things are a lot better than all the doomsayers are making it out to be. I guess the fact I work with AI sometimes, and have to do rendering type stuff that heavily benefits from the AI crap on the cards, makes it a sweeter deal. Let's face it, the time of cheap hardware improvements like in the 2000s is pretty much over. Same with graphics, graphics have barely improved at all in 10 years outside of RT
Can definitely speak from my perspective - I can't afford a GPU that costs more than $350, and it feels like either I'm being priced out of this market entirely, or I'm getting scraps and leftovers. The only launch that's been interesting and affordable to me is the 7600 XT, and that's a terrible bodged together monstrosity with a 128 bit bus and 16GB in clamshell configuration. It's just not worth upgrading. And honestly? The games aren't worth it either, most AAA games that are coming out are a waste of time of money AND need NASA hardware to run. I've been playing Tekken 8 at 1080p on my 6650 XT and that's been a blast, that's really what modern titles should be aiming for, but most UE5 games are unoptimized garbage. Here's hoping game optimization gets better, or GPU prices get better. I know most people care about GPU value, most can afford to buy in the $500 to $600 range, but I really want to see a healthier entry level market with good $200, $250, $300 and $350 options for normies. Because otherwise what's the point?
i totally agree, i got so angry at this shit that i told myself ill never buy not used gpu, actually i spent like 10$ on my build by getting worse condition parts and repairing them (and finding i7 3770 with gigabyte card in scrapped pc). Just got rx 570 i custom made airflow so i can overclock the shit out of it, got it to 1500 Mhz and 2150 Mhz memory speed and gpu doesnt ever go over 60 degrees. Everywhere is hope man and tbh It gives you so much satisfaction when you can play cyberpunk 2077 on 60 fps on 10$ pc
thing that cost me the most was roccat kone emp mouse for 4$ with a doubleclick. And if someone want to say that switches for this mouse cost something i didnt buy a switch i repaired old one XDDD
I've been working in IT for over 20 years. I've been building my own PCs for longer than that. I see no value in any of the current gen cards that cost more than my PS5. The market is in need of a correction. Prices must come back down to earth to make PC gaming worthy of my attention again. Right now I primarily play on console.
Not only gpu'ss, but also motherboards and cpu's. It's ridiculous. You used to be able to buy a lower middleclass motherboard for like 100 bucks. Good luck finding anything that isn't absolute barebones in that price range today.
It's called a paradigm shift. The future of GPUs is not gaming. It's things like AI and HPC. And a similar thing is happening to the PC market in general. Mobile devices, smart TVs, and gaming consoles are taking over the home computing market. For most people those devices can serve their computing needs just as well, if not better. That means the PC market is going to be mostly servers, and high end workstations. The home PC is dying.
@@stefanl5183 I think that you are correct, but I would modify the PC dying part by saying it is cyclical. I've gamed on PC's since the early 1980's and I've started building and modifying them in the early 1990's. Some years I dropped the PC and went console and other years I got excited about the latest PC tech and built a new computer. I just went through a new computer building phase during COVID, but the GPUs, or lack thereof, were the piece that made me not build the next version. COVID forced me to install older used GPUs and now I can't bring myself to spend the extra for a new card. Hopefully, the price to performance will come back down and I will build that next new computer. The future might be powerful newer mini PCs, but unless the GPU manufacturers get behind them, the GPU portion will be handled by the onboard CPUs.
@@deswill2737 yeah this dude is boomer tier... muh ps5 XD patheeeetttic... this whole comment senction is cringe and absolute midwits when it comes to building computers... a ps5 is 570 dollars an rtx 3070 is 619... so you save 50 dollars.. in this economy 50 bucks is nothing. I'm glad were moving back to a niche community. Maybe graphics cards reviews are going down because everyone wants iPads, PS(x), s(oy)witches. I cant wait for Windows to die so it's posix compatible systems or nothing, and the internet is only real nerds again.
I just built a 4770k 1080ti build And I only want to switch out my hard drives for a ssd. The newest I'll ever go is a 2080ti, but only for a new build much later.
i kept hanging onto a 1070 ti for six years after it launched, I only recently upgraded, going all the way to the RTX 4090. but I also use the 4090, for what its really intended for, professional grade animation work. and when it comes to 3d animation, time is money and the less time spent waiting for the computer to render, the better. thus for a 3d animator, flagship cards make sense. Though i do agree, prices are still too high. Nvidia and AMD constantly advertise their flagship cards as gaming cards, but the truth is, they are just way too overpowered for that. The only reason I an think of for a gamer to get a flagship GPU is if they dont want to replace it for ten years.
1080 TI whore here. My monitor is 1080 144hz, no point in me updating unless i go all the way. And since I dont hardcore game anymore I probably wont until this rig dies.
We actually have a bigger problem like underwhelming releases like Starfield. if the games that require faster GPUs suck then no need to buy a faster GPU. plus with the cost of living increasing. for Nvidia or Amd to get people interested again they will need to significantly improve the price-to-performance ratio on entry-level GPUs.
Games are also terribly optimized nowadays, because gaming companies don't care about quality and just wanna make as much money as fast as possible. So the consumer is stuck, especially at the midrange, playing games at 1080p for the past 6~7 years.
the issue is that games and screens got more demanding then the best gpu's can provide. when granking the graphic up and running on my double udh display i get 25 to 35fps at best. almost feels like 2k again lol
@@JonoSSD It's not even "making money" for the big ones, its increasing the stock value explosively. They're under control of the shareholders etc and those people demand an absurd growth of the company value no matter the stability or viability of it. And if the company folds under the massive stupidity of the whole thing? they sold their stocks 15 minutes before it, and its time to find a new victim.
They'll never make another 1080ti. I have it in my closet. Rocking a 3080 10gb. If my 3080 ever croaks and I can't RMA for whatever reason it's getting tossed back into my PC.
@@pingvingaming OP is referring to starfield. An objectively poorly made and horrendously optimized game. But thats far from the only new game with the same issue.
Yeah why not a 7800XT (7800)or a 7900 GRE* (7800XT)? They are in the same ballpark range.... And that 12 GB VRAM, and the offer I had for my old PC are what made my buy a 7900XT, because back then none of the 4070s made sense, and the 4070Ti was just insane. Back then it was basically NVIDIA saying: "That'll be 1k+ Euros for a GPU that you'll have to replace in 2-3 years! Oh, that's just the premium for all these nice features you can't use most of the time, unless you play some very specific games!" I have 3 games that can use Raytracing, one was a freebie, and I think 4 that can use DLSS 2. And in two of them DCS and War Thunder I would never use them, as they and TAA make it near impossible to spot enemies, or use the HUD. And safe for the price, I have not regretted buying that card, it is sn absolute beast in Rasterization, which is 99.5% of my games and gametime. Combined with 64GB RAM and a 5800X3D on a X570S Board, and NVME drives with cache, i'm getting some insane fps in Arma 3 and DCS.....in 3440x1440! If I'll replace something in the next few years, it might be the CPU/Mainboard/RAM combo, because most of my games, like DCS, AC, ACC, AmS2, Arma3, are cpu limited. And that only if the AMD Ryzen 9000X3D are good enough. *GREed, chinese wallets Getting Really Eviscerated, Greatly Reduced Expectations, aka not really a 7900, but rather a 7800XT (16GB VRAM and 256-bit bus). Edit: Typos.
@@hellspawnx3526 cuz a. The 6800 non XT swft xfx I bought before broke in under a week so I couldn't justify buying amd again, b. Before I buy a 580€ 7800xt I used a coupon and bought the 4070 super for 620€ and finally c. The 4070 super performs overall better, has all the features every game has, is more energy efficient and thus cheap over a longer period of using. 16gb would have been nice, but it's not necessity at this point. I guess the 5070 will have 16gb and I might upgrade to it in a year or two if I get another coupon or it's on a rare sale after I sold the 4070 super used
Remember back in the long-long-ago time of the mid-2010s when mid-range GPUs for regular consumers with regular sized wallets only costed around $200-$400 dollars, and you got great performance to run the current generation of games for the next couple of years? That's the difference between being young and excited to build a system around such a value beast and a Zimmer frame.
My budget even now for a GPU is 240$. I simply wait it out and buy used. Got a 1 yo used 3060ti for 230$ a few months ago and it's all I need for my needs. Plus I never fell for the 4k marketing shills and their push to convince me to upgrade to 4k. 3060ti for 1080p is a freaking beast. All super smooth sailing as I target 1080p/high/60fps settings. Also don't fall for the Ray tracing nonsense unless you have money to burn on the top end gfx cards.
@@main_stream_media_is_a_joke Still, it used to be that such a budget could buy you the equivalent graphics card brand new. Now you have to wait for it to become available used at such a price.
@@main_stream_media_is_a_joke 60 fps is great for single player, on competitive games your dead before the enemy is rendered, try something like war thunder at 60 fps then at 400.
@@outtheredude I get your point but things being what they are, a 1 yo well maintained gfx card(still with 3+ years warranty) is in my books a freaking amazing deal as compared to the ridiculously priced mid range "latest" gfx cards for $400/500+.
Here's my take. The problem isn't really with the GPUs, it's with games. Basically all new games are horrendous so why do you need a new GPU if you can play all the games you ever would want to play on max settings using a 10 year old GPU?
I think that one thing that nobody discusses is how better and better performance of graphic cards is no longer used to deliver actual better looking graphics, but to enable the software developers to get away with more sloppy code, models and bloat. And I got some great examples of it. Paradox Interactive makes their game on Clausewitz Engine 3 since 2019. All the new engine really did was to add 3D rendering to their map strategy games. In 2019 with their first game on it Imperator:Rome it was running smoothing on my 1050ti. But since then I could see the gradual decrease of performance in their newer releases. The last major update to Crusader Kings 3 (a map game, with low fidelity character models) somehow causes my graphic card to choke, and I'm basically forced to play on minimal settings. A similar thing goes for games like Witcher 3 after the Ray Tracing update, they haven't changed anything but the game now runs like shit and actually looks worse without the ray tracing because they had removed the ambient occlusion options. There are probably loads of other games that you could find, where the developers don't bother to optimise it, these days just because "It runs good on our hardware". Even though, an average player has no reason to upgrade their graphics card unless all they want is to play new AAA releases.
Unreal Engine 5 has turnkey "make game look good" settings such as Lumen, and most developers use commercial assets which are designed to look good and not to perform well. This means making a good looking but heavy game is basically the default, or you can put a ton of money into making it run better. The choice is obvious.
Last time GPUs were exciting was with pascal and Polaris in 2016 Your mid range GTX 1060 and RX 480 were stronger and had as much or more VRAM than OG GTX Titan, a $1k extreme card from 2013. Those cards continue to be extremely popular 8 years since then. I think we are on the same situation we were when Intel had no competition and was slacking on the CPU front (2012 - 2017)
for real. like you said when new affordable gpus come out, people get interested because most fellas COULD BUY THEM. Now getting refurbished 2nd hand seems to be smarter since theyre cheaper, which results in less interest for new cards
@@engineeringVirtue considering new gpu's are starting to crack from their own weight and melting their power cable's apu's are the future my friend they are catching up to gpu's rapidly now and won't crack under their own weight🤣🤣🤣
Not only the things you said, but on top of that, most modern AAA games are just unimpressive, so ultimately it leaves us asking why should we care to spend increasing prices on GPUs to play games that aren't even that fun (and want to further drain our wallets)?
this, my friend just built a nice new pc. spent around what i spent for mine, he will realize soon that theres no point in spending 2k+ on a pc with how new games are currently running
@@Swampyballs69 yeah, i mostly play emulation, indies and Vintage Story + HEAVLY modded java Minecraft, triple A are just story boring games mostly. I realy miss the psvita/psp/3DS and console double A games.
Yeah video games and graphics cards are like hot dogs and hot dog buns. You don't usually buy one without the other. If I'm playing indie games which are basically all low poly because those are the games that are actually fun then I don't need a new graphics card. People don't buy games to have another performance test on their cars they buy them to play them and have fun, the graphics of the game are only a small portion of that.
Except phones are kinda necessary but gpus are mostly for leisure (gaming for the most part) and if it stresses you out(prices) more than giving you a fun time it ain't leisure
gpus are much worst than phones. idk about you but people can usually get phones for next to nothing per month ona contract with their service provider making phones alot more accessible to everyone. where as with gpus you have to pay these ridiculous high prices upfront.
I remember building my first computer several years back and a ~ $340 CPU and a ~ $560 GPU (7700K & 1080) where pretty much the best of the best back then... Man how things have changed... for the worse 😐 Edit: The prices are roughly estimates from SEK to USD. I live in Sweden and our stuff is always $100- $300 more expensive, except for cpu's, they're mostly the same price as in the US, for example.
@@mikaboshia Mine still works to this day 👌😂 Regurlar maintence and some improvements have kept it alive and have served me well! I delidded the CPU and regurlary switched out the thermal paste. Heck, the gpu even survived getting the liquid metal treatment, which bas a bad idea, don't do that people 😅😂 Some liquid metal shortet out 1 or 2 vram chips but after thorough cleaing it worked again! Unbelievable right? Now the pc lives with my sister. She isn't a "hardcore" gamer so she doesn't play nearly as often as I do. Also she enjoys older games alot more so she's pretty happy with the pc. And on another note there's the problem with modern games, most of them atleast. They honestly Suck. I started playing Minecraft in the Alpha/Beta days, and still play it to this day. And I mostly enjoy Singleplayer titles. Bottom line is, upgrading to newer hardware is more of a hobby than a neccesity, an expensive one at that. Most of the hardware I've bought since is used.
@@snowythecolaaddict I got a nice ultra wide 1440p monitor during black Friday. So I need some vram. Lol my 1080 can handle it on med to low to get at least stable 60fps. But I just what to actually use the monitor to it's best.
@@mikaboshia Yeah. I just have a normal 1440p monitor and when I had my 1070 before I gave my old pc to my brother, I could play some games at 60fps. Then again I stick to games like Stray which aren't very demanding
My one real problem is that these days, the best machine that you can build can not run all games at maxed out settings. Be it experimental graphics features, terrible optimization, driver issues... even if you fork out $3000, you would have no guarantee that you're set.
That used to be the norm before last gen; The highest settings were all future proofed. Crysis, for example, couldn't be maxed out for ages after it came out. Same for The Witcher 2.
That was the point of the latest game engines, Idtech and Unreal, that they pushed far to the future for the required performance to be able run everything max. That is something that changed when alternatives got out like Unity, that started to be very optimized for old generation resources in mind. And suddenly IdTech and Unreal were in same cart, optimizing everything for low end in mind. Farcry and Crysis were games that really pushed far to the future until someone found 10 years later "Hey, we can run all in max settings". Similar as with ARMA 2 and ARMA 3, that you needed 10 years on both to be able run them. It was huge boost for egoistic narcissist gamers to praise their superiority via expensive GPU prices...
I think that we are partially responsible for this situation. Now, the solution seems reasonable: do not buy any new GPU until the manufacturers drop their prices.
We, or rather, The Braindead (always increasing in number) amongst us, are 100% responsible. If you can keep raising prices and STILL get your products sold, you ain't gonna suddenly lower them. Unfortunately.
The way I combat these insane GPU prices is stick to a 1080p monitor and just wait. There is no point making the problem worse trying to push too many pixels with higher resolutions.
Yeah I've been thinking a lot about this lately. As of now I have a used 6900XT with a 3440x1440p monitor. I'm thinking about at least downgrading to standard 16:9 1440p because Im not able to buy such an expensive gpu to keep up with the monitor down the line.
@@RH96OfficialChannel You don't need to revert. Monitors have aspect ratio scaling. You can run 2560x1440 on your ultrawide monitor and it will be presented correctly in 16x9.
When prices for everything skyrocketed I went from building outdated pcs with used parts I saved up for to barely surviving. Went from “I can’t wait to buy this gpu second hand” to “I can’t wait to buy food eventually.” Things are better now, but I found single board computers are a cheaper and more enjoyable hobby for me personally.
makes one appreciate devs that optimize their games to play well across a range of lower and middle spec pcs. AAA should be taking notes, but they only care about quantifiable figures of money, much to their detriment. They have no idea how much they leave on the table with their greedy practices, because not buying something is not a quantifiable piece of data. I think we have all watched mainstream gaming turn from entertainment into whale milk machines. Everything is meant to separate fools from more of their cash. It makes me appreciate old games before the greedy monetization schemes and nonexistent optimization. I already own enough good games to last me 2 lifetimes, and there are more too, for cheap cheap cheap. Older games are better, we're not missing anything other than feeling disrespected and made to be addicted, because that's what mainstream games are about now. It takes a Baldur's Gate 3 or a Palworld to come along and illuminate that fact every now and then, and the whole disgusting industry flips out about it and shows their ass every time. We are meant to pay more, to get less. Hard pass! Easy hard pass! Keep it retro!
My awakening was kind of watching some random German kid building a PC with kind of strange components when I was in full marketing, drunk hype beast benchmark mode. The kid was so pragmatic and just identified his use case and knew what components would be able to do the job that he required. It really started to make me think about things more from how an engineer would look at something and how identifying the use case is the most important part. We see this in shoes, clothes, camping equipment, bicycles, cars, televisions and we get kind of caught up in the marketing and buzz and excitement. On the opposite side of the games. Also pray on this mentality in our quest for quality despite the diminishing returns. I look at a lot of cars now I wonder why the cheap cars are so bad and it's just not a lot of effort being put into these things to be competitive and the common consumer is easily distracted with knick knacks and doodads. Consumers have made their claims of what they want with their dollars and so manufacturers have obliged. You can say consumers have been coerced with marketing, but at the end of the day we are a critical part of the ecosystem and are participants in crafting the modern marketplace.
yeah I remember the start and later peak of the GPU price gouging and bitcoin farming that empowered nVidia to officially stop giving any fucks. A lot of second hand retailers and repair shops in my area had two stark paths: one of shutting down to leave their passion and go work as bartenders and the other where they lucked out and some rich kid with a disconnected VGA cable was willing to play serious money for basic fixes as long as it happened rapidly and so that kept them afloat at least to us outside observers. Suits ruined gaming, film, GPU pricing and actually all entertainment as a whole.
It's also worth noting that nVidia learned that a lot of people were willing to pay scalper prices to get the current generation GPUs. The pricing is as much the fault of the people with stupid amounts of disposable income as it is the manufacturers.
Someone realizes that. Finally. Tictock addicts with zero attention span or discipline and mountains of covid money have dug a huge grave for everyone.
Remember when the government locked everyone in their houses and then printed a bunch of money and gave it to them so they had nothing to do but sit at home and spend money online?.... Pepperidge Farm remembers
There is a reason why the most popular GPUs on Steam hardware survey is RTX 3060 & GTX 1650. For majority of normal people there is simply no reason to buy anything with more performance when a high end GPU costs as much as entire PC with mid range GPU included. Soon situation will get even weirder as with AMD 8000G APUs, it will also be hard to justify buying entry level GPU at all. There are also things like power consumption and performance per watt which are also kinda terrible. High end GPUs can use like 300 - 400 watt on its own and if you game regularly, then it translates to huge electricity bills that are kinda unjustified, since all you are really getting by using high end gpu is higher resolution & ray tracing. But the $ cost is not worth it. On the opposite side we got a Steam Deck that uses less than 15 watts and can play anything within acceptable performance. During GTX 980 & GTX 1080 era, high end GPUs actually made perfect senses. Heck, if you have one of those cards there is no reason for you to upgrade (unless GPU dies & you have to replace it, but you will most likely end up with 4060 or 7600, and not something high end). PC gaming had never been this delaminated.
I own a $1000 6GB GTX Titan(Kepler era, 2013) I’m only now upgrading to a 16GB 4070 Ti Super, and only because it can’t run modern AI software like Stable Diffusion. Otherwise it’s lasted 11 years of constant daily use and was plenty good for older gaming titles as well.
we need budget cards again, like 4030, 4050 and 7400, 7500 XT and they have to perform better than the 780M in the 8700G and it needs to start aat 220€ as much
Wherever i hear people asking about PC's mainly for their kids and gaming, the games specified are Minecraft, Fortnite and Roblox. You don't need a 2000-3000$ build with the latest and powerful GPU for those... People play all sorts of games, the indie scene is big too, a lot of Steam games have low requirements. And even the latest and brightest are playable on mid to low specs new-ish PC's.
to be honest i have just given up on gaming except for the occasional older titles. This console generation has been a massive poopshow, and I have no interest in it. the AAA industry is just a disaster everywhere.
Exactly, this is why I left PC gaming. Consoles hold much value for money and I do not need to bother with trying to hunt down GPUs and fine tuning games. I have a PS5 and I dont worry about any of that stuff coz it just works.
@@joelj457 funny your reason for leaving PC is the same reason why I left consoles. They're not that good of a value for people like me. I hate paying for online on top of my internet bill, I do not like the fact that everything is all digital now but at least the steam store isn't going to randomly shut servers off for downloads unless Valve goes out of business. At least they're not going to snatch games you already paid for out of your library. Sony and Microsoft along with those shit heads from Nintendo are the reason why I'm losing interest in gaming. They are starting to affect the PC market with all the crappy games that nobody wanted on the consoles also coming to the PC. Doesn't help that Nvidia is greedy and AMD is mediocre
You still pay for games. Just get a GPU and pirate shit. I save more money in the long run covering the cost of an entire PC in the 4yrs I own that PC before upgrading. Not to mention game retailers gouge the fuck out of you. Just went to PS5 website and the list of games for 60-100$+ is insane... That's 10 games a year for a $4k PC and likely at most 24hrs of game time per game. Console = bad investment
I remember when I would build a PC. Upgrade the graphics cards 18 months later, then replace the whole PC 18 months after that. The graphics cards refresh cycle was 6 months, not 2-3 years. The updates on each were significant, and the leap in games each year were huge. Now the costs are a lot higher, the cycle a lot longer, and the performance per dollar has been mostly stuck in slow for the past 5 years.
That is because Moore's Law is dead ...... The only thing that will move us forward now is dump traditional processing (incorrectly called rasterization since even ray tracing is rasterized) and move to completely AI generated frames
Five years? I would bet most games would still run fine on a 1080 ti. I can only think of one of my games that really needs more than that. Still running 1080p too. Never upgraded monitors either because it's all a money grab.
On the other hand, we can still play games on 5 year old hardware. People who think this stuff is expensive now would have lost their minds in the pre-nvidia 8800 days.
I bought my entire 2070 super, 2.5tb SSD, 16gb ram pc for $1000 a few years ago. Ain’t no way I’m spending the cost for my entire computer on a part. It’s insane how things have become and people just keep eating it up incentivizing this anti-consumer pricing to continue
Paying more than 500 bucks is ridiculous. Im still using my 1070 form 2016. I admit though it is just recently starting to struggle so when i can afford it I'll build a new PC. Im literal proof though that you dont need to upgrade your GPU every generation to enjoy gaming.
I’m rocking a 4070, mainly wanted it cause I was planning to buy a 1440p monitor. I now have a 1440p monitor I immensely regret that choice as I mainly play osu and the motion blur was horrendous. I tried to buy another 1080p monitor but Amazon fucked up and sent me the wrong one so now I gotta go through that process and I’ll be waiting like a week or two to get a new one. I could have just bought a used 3070 or 3080
FSR 3 frame gen mods have been a lifesaver for older GPUs like pascal, WHEN MODDERS SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS INSTEAD OF NVIDIA AND AMD officially, because planned obsolescence of tech.
Some years ago (before 2020) I essentially bought a whole new gaming rig for about 3000$. Now today when I look at what I’d like to buy for my next rig, the GPU alone costs about 2500$, ALONE. This is just insane!
Thats a you problem bro. You don’t need a $2500 dollar card if you’re just gaming. I paid $2000 for my entire build in 2018, and I paid $2000 just a week ago for a new build since my old one is on its last legs, and most of the parts are pretty high end and good enough to run the ever increasing demands of modern video-games
EDIT: many people have offered their old cards to me and honestly I feel so grateful, so lets keep those good spirits up and if you have a piece of hardware that you no longer use and you don't want to go through with the hassle of marketplace or whatever, go your local computer store and give them away to the people who may need them. I feel that, as consumers, but more importantly as enthusiasts of technology we have the duty to fight greedy companies by making sure that no old hardware goes to waste and everyone can keep the hobby alive and all that hippie bullshit. Anyways, thank you so much for the comments, and really, there's no need to keep offering stuff, look around you and maybe you can help someone with their setup. PC Master Community! ---- the other day my 7 year old msi 1050ti went a little wonky and I literally wanted to cry. I live in Chile and GPU's are SO. GOD. DAMMED. EXPENSIVE. That I literally would need to save money for like 10 months to a year on a minimum wage job to maybe MAYBE afford a used 1080ti
@@DaybreakPT dude, minimum wage is about 350 usd. The cheapest 3060 available in chile RIGHT NOW is 315 usd. if the available cash i can save is about 20 bucks a month id need about a year and a half to get it. which at that point is going to be a 5 year old card
Do you NEED to replace a dying 1050ti with an even older, probably soon to die 1080ti when you could get say a 4060 or AMD equivalent that will actually last you the next 7 years instead? Going 3 gens up is a MASSIVE jump in GPUs, a 3060ti is as powerful as a 1080ti was.
Yo también soy de Chile, y si, concuerdo, pero no es tanto así, he visto muchas tarjetas buenas (3060, rx6600, 2060s y 1660) bordando las 150 lucas, e incluso algunas que bordean las 100 (rx580 8gb) claro, usadas, pero aún así, siguen siendo tarjetas muy buenas
I don't know the salaries in other countries but... in Spain any 600€ graphics card is half of a normal salary. Not to mention those that cost more than €1000. Basically, a monthly payment of your annual salary goes to the graphics card so that after 2 years you have new models that are practically the same as the previous models.
Not that bad eh, in my country 500$ is more than normal salary. People always joke about selling kidney to buy 1080ti in 2016, and right now, things get even worse.
@@nexus02496in my country there is a neverending inflation and low interest rates and the more you try to save money the more you lose money and electronics priceses are way above the normal pay. It’s imposible to buy things without going in debt. Everytime you delay your purchase you lose more money but if you buy today you pay an interest rate but you’d pay much more if you saved money. Still debt inevitable
no you're crazy, there is no reason to buy them all also you could spend all the money of a single console on a 4060 it will run all games. edit : the OP literally talked about a GPU not a whole PC. So it doesn't matter if you still have to buy other stuff in the context of the OP. Oh but it's console fanboys the same that liked the comment about PC being the same as console and having no mods lmao, harmon smith lookalike
People don’t understand desktop will be allways better you have freedom to do what you want!! You can mod your games!! And no way consoles can run games like pc’s!! PS5 struggles to have 120 fps!! Bro my pc do 1000 easy!!! Yes desktops are expensive but you can play longer on them and for example to play online free games on ps you must pay 80 euros in Europe!! I play for free on pc! And games price is not even worth to compare ps charge to much for shitty games!!! And I mean on pc you have thousands of games for free to play and actually good games!!!
I've been a PC gamer since the 90s. Most games you can't even mod now outside of model hacks. There's no custom game modes or map making anymore. Hell we can't even host our own servers and create our own scripting language like AMX for counter strike and half life 1. Pc gaming is barely different from console gaming outside of using a keyboard and mouse and not needing to pay to play online.
Part of the lack of demand is going to be that the 20-series from nvidia can already do almost everything in a normal environment. Upgrading past there just doesn’t really make sense anymore, unless you’re specifically interested in making a super powerful computer, rather than making your computer powerful enough to do whatever it is you want to do.
Yeah, I got 2060 5 years ago and it's still totally fine for multiplayer games. 4060 is only ~30% faster and costs $450 where I live. There is literally no incentive for me to upgrade. Every single-player game I want to play is available on PS5, looks and sounds great on my OLED TV + Sonos surround setup, and I can just chill on a couch.
Yeah, I’ve had a 3070 since they launched. I play on a 2k monitor and have never had any issues. I’m not a snob for 800 fps so singleplayer games on high/ultra settings getting 100+ fps and comp games getting 200-400fps. This card is nearly half a decade old and still stomps any game that comes out that is at least decently optimized. No reason to keep up with the industry bc we have reached the computing limit needs of average consumers. The GPU industry is boring because nobody really needs an upgrade… games aren’t pioneering like crazy like they were in the 2010s. We can handle UE5 games and it looks lifelike already… where is there to improve besides raw complexity and scale to games which would require CPU and memory upgrade?
The thing for me is, i WANT to keep gaming on PC, and upgrading when it's needed to run newer games. But what's killing the interest for me on "triple-A" titles right now, besides the things already said on the video, is the over reliance on upscaling and apparently not giving a shit about optimizing. Now playing at your monitor's native res is nearly impossible if you want good performance ( 60+ fps ). I refuse to use upscaling at 1080p because it looks like garbage. Can we go back to having a clear image instead of this ugly blurry mess of today, please? My 3060 should be plenty capable for playing at 1080p, but what i get when i try most new titles is it performing awfully unless upscaling is enabled. I want to go back to the 2010's era when games actually had a clear image output.
Nope. PC ports were always rushed. Now that upscaling means you can rush them even more, they will. But I don't think upscaling is even made for 1080p because, well, it looks horrible.
@@MrGamelover23 Not always, one recent example i can recall is Spiderman Remaster, it performs super well and still has great graphics. Also strangely games coming from Sony like Returnal, Horizon:ZD, Days Gone all have good optimization on PC. 😉 But i agree that most of the time they are rushed nowadays
I just got a used 3060 for $200 and I'm super happy with it. I'm coming from a gtx 970 though. This is the first time I've been able to playing anything @1440p 60fps.
@@MaYeRsDz94 There are games where it can't hit 4K 60fps at high settings (more because of poor optimization, but still), and it's a fairly hot and loud card. But yeah, no way I'm not dropping ~$750 for an incremental improvement.
As someone who lives outside of the US all the way in Serbia, where these prices are only even more outrageous and the average salary is just 400 euros A MONTH, it has always been hard to get a good deal here. In my 25 years of life I've only bought used graphics cards and I don't even plan on paying the outrageously exorbent MSRP prices for a new one, because here they are almost +50% higher. But the saddest thing is that even used GPUs are incredibly expensive. Nvidia and AMD have become so greedy and it's only because people are so braindead and are willingly throwing their money at them. It will never stop because people are okay with it.
Repeat after me: I don't need to be on the bleeding edge. I don't need to run my games at ultra settings with rtx all the time. I don't need more than 120fps in my competitive games. I don't need 4k gaming. Repeat this every morning and stay away from temptation, my brothers.
I think the moment Nvidia abandoned their core audience marks the beginning of this. It wasn’t the only reason it happened but it started the ball rolling. This catering to miners and AI, and abandoning PC enthusiasts, also coincided with huge price hikes, soft launches, scalping, and an unwillingness to do anything to stop the scalping. It doesn’t help that since then the quality control of these products have been put under extreme scrutiny because of how outrageous the price hikes have become. When your top of line GPU goes from being advertised as $800 MSRP, to buying from a scalper on eBay for $2000+ , every small problem gets magnified because it’s such a huge purchase for what it is. This also coincides with a period in time where game makers got super greedy and started churning out crap games that were obvious money grabs. The apathy started there, the apathy reached its peak when people realized they don’t want to do this 💩 any more. We have different hobbies now. We don’t need new graphics cards to play the few, sparsely released games that are actually worth our time. They cooked the golden goose, and now dinner is over.
Nvidia for sure no longer prioritizes GPUs. But that's smart business. There is so much more money to be had in the computing / AI segment than in gaming. It makes perfect sense to do this. I would not be surprised if in 5-10 years, Nvidia splits off their GPU branch into a separate company.
@@dvdv7777 that's definitely not true, GPUs are utilized in the space of high performance computing and A.I. As a matter of fact, it's the reason why Nvidia's stock shot up
No, what marked the beginning was when people bought from the Scalpers. When they showed NVidia and AMD that they were happy to buy at ridiculous prices. What happened next was inevitable.
I don't think it's just the cost of the new GPUs, it's that the 20 series, the 30 series, and the 5000/6000 series are performing well at or above people's needs, and gaming has kind of peaked until it can make a more perceivable effect from the new GPUs. If you look before the pandemic from around 2015-2020, the games that were top performing during the 10 series era now were being eclipsed by new gaming capabilities. 2015-2020 had a huge upgrade of monitor resolution, refresh and framerate capability for much cheaper prices on the monitors, but the games and GPUs couldn't keep up with producing performance against those advances to fully utilize it, so there weren't many games that even could utilize those resolutions. Because there wasn't a reason to upgrade because there weren't many products that demanded an upgrade. When the 20 series dropped, the 20 series was very lackluster in reception, it didn't constitute much of a performance increase to mandate an upgrade, especially at its price compared to the still performing 10 series, the 10 series and older GPUs that people already had were fulfilling their needs, as well as there not being a large amount of games that stretched beyond the window of performance that a 10 series provided. Fast forward to the 30 series. its 2020, everyone is at home, everyone is working from their computer. people have much more time to utilize their computers for entertainment. EVERYONE bought a computer then. The people that were already gamers were being aged out of their 10 series performance with new resolutions and more demanding games, they wanted a 30 series because they had already chosen to wait and bypass the 20 series. The people at home in front of their computer all day want the best possible machine, the computer became more like a car, and people just wanted the nicest one. Supply chain delays, shortages, and high demand rose the costs of the cards, BUT, PEOPLE GOT ONE THEY NEEDED. the 20 series (especially for power consumption and laptop use) sold rampantly, the 5000/6000 series equivalents to the 20/30s series also caught up to those price spikes as well. Everyone that needed an upgrade, got one. there were a lot of people with underperforming machines that mandated an upgrade to simply just something newer. There hasn't been any (WELL MADE) game that's been so massively demanding and so massively consumed that game developers have required that they develop more games for a consumer that has those GPU capabilities. This is even more true when you take into account that consoles are still very much a large consumer market for games. Game developers will naturally effect the industry with the constraints in which the hardware their consumer base has. There were man faux pa game launches that tried to bridge the gap between old gen and next gen consoles, while still having this behemoth of a hardware upgrade accessible to them. These were disasters (Cyberpunk 2077 on Old Gen consoles comes to mind) . The gaming and generic use case of GPUs has not caught up to the current level of hardware by any means, not when people are running all their GPUs they bought in 2020+ and still able to reliably get 1440p at 144hz in most mid-low tier cards/cpus, OR they have a steam deck, nintendo switch, xbox, or ps5. If there's games that are so ground breaking, or the pure volume of higher res games mandates a gpu upgrade, or, their hardware isn't performing as well as it did 5+ years ago, then people will buy a new one. They just don't need to right now, so the people that are around in the industry just portray the same sentiment in different ways To the regular consumer a rating from Gamer Nexus stating "This card is meh", equates to "this isn't going to benefit you to buy it". I bet if there were more games out there that just couldn't run without the newest gpu, because the level of computing that the game is doing is providing such a stark difference of experience, then people would buy a new gpu and be exited about ir. What game at a reasonable resolution (medium+) and a playable frame rate(60frames+ because consoles/tvs) cant be supported by a 20series era card or newer? Once those consumers from 2020 are mandated an upgrade for any reason (age, failure, higher mandate of gpu from the games they play that their current gpu cannot handle, etc), the interest in gpus will go up. right now, there isn't any interest because people don't need them. What they have now is working. Take that into account with how much more expensive the cards are now as to when the boom happened, and people are even less likely to be excited.
The reasons I am not upgrading my graphics card: - Performance per/$ is not changing that much. - Graphics cards in general are to expensive if you want something reasonable. - I am able to play my old games with my old card and feel like now is not the right time to upgrade. (I might play newer games at some point if I would upgrade, but for now I just dont even bother looking at newer games)
There's nothing an rx 590 can't run near 60 fps. Starfield looked like the game to change that, but it turned out to be bad cpu utilization and poor ram optimization.
it's really sad how buying a gpu cost so much money that it becomes an investement and because of it people would rather skip multiples generations, the cost of playing video games keeps increasing... i sometimes hate how amd and nvidia get to have a monopole around gpu's and screw over the consumers who just was here to play video game at first but instead spent thousand of dollars just on GPU's...
I have 6600 XT, and it does everything I need. Sometimes PC players focus too much on optimizating the experience rather than just playing the damn game.
Exactly. The majority of players will not notice if raytracing or that the background looks "better" or not playing in a FPS game because they are too busy just playing the damn game. Reviewers are partly to blame and also the mind hive in forums where people will convince others their older card is inferior. The same goes for other computer components, motherboards, CPUs, and RAM has to be the "best" or you are "stupid" for not upgrading every year. It's peer pressure and just moronic.
@@davidlong1786 or the constant back and forth bitching of the 2 dominant GPU companies that both have been great but have problematic issues that one is better then the other and then gatekeeping about it when theres no good sportsmanship about it
Dude I've been watching you for a while and recently I've seen you really kick your production value in high gear. By a lot. Don't stop grinding man, it's very noticeable and it's paying off. Much love.
I'm not paying over a thousand for a GPU, *any* GPU. They sell GPU's as if they're life saving medications and people have no choice but to buy them when they're nothing more then an accessory for a very niche hobby.
I have bought a few high-end premium cards over the years, like the BFG GeForce 6800 Ultra and GTX 8800 Ultra, but when I bought them I never paid more than $500. But now that high-end is $1000+, I'm out. I dread the day I have to upgrade my current card, a 1080. Another issue is the psychical size of the cards and PSU needed, it's crazy.
When iPhone crossed the 1000$ barrier and people still bought it every year ,the tech market changed for everyone , and every device was comfortable making themselves 1000$ from other phones and now the GPU market iPhone really set the precedent. It'll be really hard to recover because most high end GPU buyers probably already buy yearly iPhones and buying a 4 yr GPU for 1000 doesn't seem that bad .so the market mentality is already messed up.
@@DarthRambo007 That's not most people. That's a few people here and there with more money than sense. What keeps a lot of these mega corps afloat these days is investment money. And that money is running out at a rapid pace.
I bought the gtx 1070 for 550 dollars back in 2016. the 4070S is now 829 dollars in Canada… It’s insane. Even adjusting to inflation the card should only cost 679.
I bought a 1070 back in the day and it was great. It changed gaming for me. Then I upgraded to a 3070ti, and it was 'meh' - because 95% of the the games I would actually need a 3070 to run are badly optimized and boring. The only exception that comes to mind is Baldur's Gate 3. There's great looking games that run fine on a 1070. Look at RDR 2 for example. The difference isn't really that big from any game I own that requires a 3070. It feels like the advances in GPUs lately haven't benefited gamers, they've just made it easier for developers to release half-assed games. Either rushed titles that never get polished or lazy console ports. So, yes... I agree, the latest GPUs are both overpriced and boring (especially in conjunction with AAA games being overpriced and boring). What makes it fun for me to be a gamer these days is indie games and older classics - which usually don't need expensive new GPUs.
Yeah, but there was actually a reason to buy the 1070 back then, it was always the best value until the 1070 ti/1080 ti. What's the point of getting a 4070S when you can just get a 4060 with more Vram and get 80-90% of the performance? And if you end up lowering some graphics settings, these days you don't even notice the image quality drop. I think this market with more high end tiers is actually a good thing. Because the 4080's/4090's are so expensive, they can use that money to subsidize the mid range cards more. Why not take more of rich people's money if it makes things cheaper for us? And yes, gpus are still quite inexpensive relative to inflation.
I have a 7900xt. I got it open box from microcenter with free starfield for $675. I was completely ready to pass on this generation, but that made sense to me.
Awesome deal! But saying it came with a free copy of Starfield is like saying it came with a free rotten banana. You could eat the banana, but who would want to?
That aint bad deal to be honest. In my country the cheapest 7900xt costs 860€ and good partner models are 950€. Cheapest open box ive seen was 820€ I really hate this overpriced gpu bullshit.
Essentially -$45 from the current 7900 XT best deals sold new at Microcenter in exchange for probably not having a warranty... Not a bad deal, but if I'm spending $700+ (when factoring in sales tax), I'm going to want that warranty.
4000 series was literally 3000 series rebadge with software upgrades. I built a PC 3 years ago at the height of shortage. I got a used (possibly former mining) 2070 Super for over $400. It served me well and just upgraded to 10GB 3080 for $500. I literally used my 2070 Super to upgrade my kid's PC from 6GB 1060. All used and hand-me-downs. That's how excited I am about paying a premium for no performance increace. True story.
The biggest reason why we are having such mediocre everything is because of CEOs and CFOs get them out of the way and their bonuses out of the way our lives will be better
no it has to do with diminishing returns, moore law being dead, california's climate change laws that prevent you from making hardware that uses too much energy which is what the 3060 6gb and dlss and frame gen and fsr is about and inflation being through the roof to the point that the dollar has lost over 90% of its value since the fed was established.
Dont be mad, history already proven why most people that born with golden or even diamond spoon got their descendant wreck in the head. While its not a fast effect. It will turn into cycle cause damn these people unhinged ticking time bomb.
I look to be about 10 years your senior, and I'll tell you, you're not wrong. The market was a much, much different place from the introduction of 3D accelerators to maybe the early 2010s. Rapid node shrinks and cheaper/less complex technology allowed for insane gains year after year, and prices didn't shift much in that timeframe. It was one hell of a time to be a kid and into PCs, let me tell you. Probably the best time, tbh. Now it's like... cool this card is 5% faster than the one its replacing, and it's $100 more... yay.
not sure where you getting these figures from. the 4080 is 50% faster than the 3080. and its double the price...im not arguing that GPUs are super overpriced. they are. but the performance improvements are definitely there its just that the contemporary performance improvements arent as sexy as they have been in the past. they are mostly just tied in with being able to play at higher resolutions. 4k gaming is decent on a 3080 but horrible on a 2080 and great on a 4080...once most people are caught up to 4k i think we will start to get more fun improvements again. but if you go from 1080p to 4k (especially if you have a big screen and/or are pretty close to it) its actually a pretty insane jump in quality of graphics so the performance improvements are definitely there.
@@vivsavagex how about the mess that is Nvidia's midrange? Didn't they release a 4060 or something recently that was slower in some cases than the card it superceded? I'm sure there's a bunch of similar shit with Radeon, but idk Don't keep track of it much anymore, don't really care
yes you have a bit of a point on that specific card. not to my knowledge is that in any other card comparison but it could be! but yeah that 4060 was embarrassing@@Dilo22
I used to feel like that but VR has made me excited for better GPUs. Resolution and frame rate improvements are very noticeable in VR. Extreme graphics quality really adds to the sense of immersion and high quality physics are extremely satisfying. AI and ray tracing are slowly starting to get good too, in the next couple of gens they'll really start to become game changing.
@@Dilo22ah, the infamous 4060ti. How they went from the 3060ti ( one of the best if not the best Nvidia price/perf. card of last gen ) to this is beyond me. For me, the 4060ti is a pile of garbage, but then, I'd insult the garbage.
@@masterlee1988 same, I'm still on 1060. But I don't do a ton of gaming and still on 1080p so it's been decent enough. Now with Nvidia adding 8 encode/decode video streams to the card through drivers it's probably going to be good for what I do for even longer, lol. Though I would like AV1 so the recent stuff does have some appeal.
Also, that view count theory is incorrect. The YT platform is overly saturated these days. All of those views are spread out over 1,000 fold more channels covering the same exact topic. I’m not going to watch different channels say the same thing about a the same graphics card.
I have the best 360aio water-cooled 4090 you can buy before going custom, and I want something better. *shrug* Yes it's a beast, but we're not done at 4k. VR needs more. AI needs more. The industry needs people buying GPU's to help move things along.
@bro6842I think mine's going for $2500 now, but I got it on launch day for $2k. No regrets. Yes, I'm an adult making adult money so a GPU is cheap compared to lots of other things. Not bragging, because I was broke before as well, but there is definitely a market for top-tier stuff, even if it's small. It's a beast for VR, AI and rendering too, not just gaming.
As someone who regularly run the 60s (x600 and xx60 series cards) along with my friends; I can tell you that everyone felt the price-to-performance drop out. Usually people would go for the 60s because, "oh well, it's cheap and it's good enough." Nowadays the 60s are like "yeah it's not even cheap anymore." Most of us rather go last gen used and we'd get mid tier for roughly the same price. Out here 4060's AIB prices is the same as a used 3070Ti...
I feel this. I was a Nvidia user till my last "upgrade" a couple of years back and the xx60 SKU was always the sweet spot for gaming. I decided to go full Linux and went with an AMD card cause drivers. However just purchased a 3060 used and so far it's been good, but I wouldn't even think of buying one of the current gen cards at shelf price.
Right there with you, Vex. I'm normally a tech enthusiast and I love PC gaming, but I've been so disillusioned by the obscene, outrageous prices of graphics cards over the last three years. It's all but killed my enthusiasm for the hobby. We've jumped the shark when the price of one component costs more than the leading console. It's time to find a new hobby.
I agree, but remember that along with the high price comes killer performance. I remember forking over a small fortune for a GTX 1080 Ti, the top card at the time. I also remember the anticipation when I installed it and got the driver set up--woohoo! Oh yeah, one more thing: I remember the 'meh' feeling over its performance. At least I could say it was noticeably better than my previous 1070! Today, they're even more expensive but they DO have the performance to back it up. At least you know when you fork over a GRAND just for the privilege of wasting your time gaming, the performance will be as impressive as the price is annoying. Keep that in mind.
@@devilsoffspring5519 Absolutely not. The RTX 4090 is 25% faster than the 4080, and it's $800 more expensive. I myself also owned a GTX 1080 Ti (and the 980 Ti before it), so it's not like I'm new to the PC gaming hobby. If prices were at historical norms today, we would have an RTX 4080 Ti that was just a few percent slower than the RTX 4090 and costs $700-800 when accounting for inflation. You are out of your mind to suggest that the price increases are worth it today.
@@selohcin I didn't say they were 'worth it' though. If you want a top tier graphics card, the price is grossly out of proportion to the performance. It has been that way since I was a kid in the early to mid-1980s and first becoming aware of this stuff. If you want a new Ferrari it will cost a lot more than a used Ford. If you want to buy an F-35 fighter jet it will cost more money than a P-51 Mustang from the 1940s. The F-35 is 3 times faster, but costs 100 times more money than a P-51. It's a "flagship graphics card" of fighter jets. You people think you "deserve" a 4090 Ti for 200 bucks. It has been that way for 40 years.
@@devilsoffspring5519 You DID say it was worth it when you wrote "Today, they're even more expensive but they DO have the performance to back it up." Stop equivocating.
@@selohcin If you want the top of the line card it will be disproportionately expensive for the performance increase. It's the way it's always been, that's what I meant.
35 year old "tech head" here (1989). Been building computers since socket 775 in 2004 and man o man, motherboards cpus and GPU's were SO EXCITING back then. I feel very meh now, I have a 5800x3d and a 3080ti and I have no "compassion" for any new releases.
I've been on an RX580 since I built my PC in 2020. GPU's are so ridiculous that I managed to upgrade to a 5950X, 64 gigs of RAM, and still spent less than a decent GPU. The only hope the low end has is for integrated graphics to get better, which they seem to be. Let's hope that trend continues.
Still rocking my GTX 1650 from Dec 2019. It's starting to show signs of aging (sadly). People have been telling me that their gpus from 20 series and up have been exploding, yet mines just started decaying after almost 5 years of owning it. I noticed that people stopped worrying about GPU's when scalpers started setting up bots to buy out the stock of every 30 series card for months after release, then reselling them for 300-500 dollars above MSRP. I believe people truly have gotten tired of nonsense.
whats more messed up then the scalpers is the fact that nvidia was just like "oh theyll pay that?! thats the MSRP now" i know cards are expensive to R&D and produce but we rarely see such a blatant just pulling numbers out of thin air with no tie to actual cost than with GPUs@@DeepDownInTheOcean
@@vivsavagex Exactly. Nvidia abused C19 and scalpers to increase their prices. I remember seeing RTX 3060s and 2060s sitting at 600-700 dollars for months after release.
I have given up. I repasted my over 4 year old rx5700 which is kinda broken (only stable if I lower boost clock by 5% and windows uninstalls the drivers regularly) and will use it for the next 3 years to come.
Oof, that sucks and I get it, because of my budget I gotta constantly look at benchmark videos for the best possible value gpu because of how crazy prices fluctuate in the market, there's barely anything good out there
@@inawesome4162 But I kinda like my pc. I learned a lot due to the limitations and problems it brought. I wish you best luck and low graphic card prices.
Do you have your igpu forced in bios by any chance? I once forgot to disable it so windows kept updating drivers for igpu and uninstalling the dgpu one.
@@inawesome4162 sure there's nothing good, but if you have to upgrade there's nothing you can do than choose something. i also have an rx 5700 and it's not good for new games that come out. Lords of the Fallen 2 can barely get 60 fps on medium settings and when the fps drop kicks in it goes to the 30's. the fights in that game are terrible when the fps drops to the 30's. same goes for other newer games. most likely i'll upgrade to rx 7700xt. i would get the rx 7800xt, but here in EU it don't cost $500 but $600(out of budget). at $500 range, you get the rx 7700xt.
I'll get me a 3070 and probably die with it, this 1660 super i just got is great but it lacks the grunt to do some wild shit with old modded games. Just wish there was a 1670\80\90 cause i'm not interested in dlss or ray tracing at all, since the old stuff i play will never support any of that.
It's because the companies have been for almost a decade trying to convince gamers that photorealistic graphics=good game. It's not. So now you have got AAA companies focusing too much on making the game look photorealistic but at the cost of gameplay, story/narrative and art style. We now have too many games that look photorealistic. And now they all start to feel the same. There is no uniqueness. THere is no art style. It just feels like playing different games set in the same universe. The element of fiction is gone and people lose interest when you bring too much realism into escapism. To the point that games almost look like real life and it starts to feel more like a chore than fun.
The last new in box GPU I purchased was a GTX 1070 at Microcenter around launch. All open box and used GPUs for myself and the kids ever since. There are thousands of PC games out there and lots of fun to be had no matter what level of PC you have.
True... I'm catching myself playing more low graphics Indi titles on my high end cards than actual graphics wonders. However, at least the new cards save a ton of electricity at low usage percentage.
it's not true that you need the most recently released card to play modern games. just turn shadows etc. down a notch or two and a five year old card does just fine. after all, there is an incentive for game devs to have their product compatible with as many machines as possible.
I think a lot of people are beginning to understand the dread we've been feeling for awhile now. Neither AMD or Nvidia give a hoot about gaming any more. It's all this AI nonsense and that would be fine in any other market but this one where the barrier to entry is so insane because of legacy support that pretty much no one can even enter the market. When even Intel can't break into this market, there's no possibility for some underdog coming in and upsetting the big dogs that are getting lazy. It's not just that the situation sucks, it's that it looks very likely that it's never going to get better barring the AI mania being a bubble that pops and pops in a very ugly way as well.
It sucks that unlike the cryptocurrency craze, which evaporated when dedicated hardware took over, the demand for "AI" is dragging the companies into creating new kinds of hardware that caters to it. It's like they don't want to miss out on the pivot this time, even if it means leaving their previous audience behind.
@@dakat5131 In contrast to cryptocurrency you can do many useful things with AI (not saying, that people do useful things with AI :D ). But yeah, AI is the price driver. And as pro cards get more and more expensive, so do the gamer cards. AMD and NVIDIA are producing as much as possible pro Cards and fill the rest of their production contingent on gaming cards. Cards like the 4090 probably only exist and sell "that cheap", because of producing many not optimal A6000 dies. That's why NVLink had to go from these cards, as already many small companies or people use gaming cards for AI or HPC. RDNA3 and Ada Lovelace are really great and a huge step forwards technologically and energy efficency wise, but expensive. Not buying these cards as a gamer won't really hurt Nvidia or AMD in the short term. We just have to adapt somehow.
I think it's good, it'll force people to look at handhelds like the deck, which are epic. It's essentially a console that can play PC games. Increased deck adoption would push devs to build games that can play on it.
that is true, the cost of living is insane ! Just to cover the basics where i live you need to be making at least 20$ an hour if not youre gonna be forced to go at a food bank and go beg the government for money that they stole from you so you can have a small % back and remain poor.
It's unfortunate when I learned that throwing money and tech in the hopes of achieving consistent frame rate is actually dependent on the developer and how they have or haven't optimized their game.
I was truly excited when I purchased my first 20Mb Seagate HDD. I was thrilled when we upgraded from the green text monitor to VGA monitors and then to my first 14" color monitor. My face melted when I played Quake for the first time. I've not felt like that for decades now.. I started paying attention to GPU around GeForce series era starting 1999. Don't even remember the term "GPU" before that. I used NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 2GB (still in working condition) from 2013 to 2018. Then I upgraded to ASUS GeForce GTX 1080 TI 11GB. Very very happy with it and have no intentions of upgrading for the next 10 years. I love my games but it doesn't need to run at "Ultra". While I appreciate the advancement in technology and other avenues of research high powered GPUs have opened up, I don't find myself being very excited about it.
As someone who fell out of gaming in spring of 2020 and now wants to get back in. It feels like a bad time due to the current refresh cycle. I have money now so I want to build a high end system. But I don’t want to pay high end pricing during the middle of the cycles: 7800X3D came out 9 months ago, AM5 platform still using 1st gen motherboards which I’ve always avoided, 7900XTX is 13 months old, and the RTX 4090 is 15 months old and still going above MSRP considerably. At this point I might just build a low end PC and sell it once new high end stuff is out. It’s just annoying unless you plan out your upgrades in advance or you don’t care about wasting money.
@@christopherfortineux6937 But console players do not have access to all of the mods available to PC users… I play Skyrim and PC mods to Console mods doesn’t even begin to compare or I would go that route until something breaks in the gpu World…
It's actually not a bad time. Prices are dropping on GPUs, and all other PC components are relatively inexpensive for the price. SSD prices have come up somewhat after being extremely low for the last few months of last year, but there are still lots of good prices for SSDs as well.
When I bought 1080ti on release I was amazed, because it was really powerful and I could turn on everything in latest games. Now I need 4090 for 3x price and I will get less than 50 fps in cp2077 with overdrive rt @ 1440p. What's even the point? I'd rather get middle gpu if I'm gonna turn down settings anyway.
The only way to improve graphics these days is through things like ray tracing that are just super demanding. That's why games from 5+ years ago often look just as good as anything released today. I think we've just hit a plateau, where the best we can do is just moderately increase resolutions, textures, and triangle count. Until we can move on from silicon, I think the gains are going to continue to diminish.
I had the same feeling when I got my 3090. I REALLY didn't feel it was worth its cost. I had to change my GPU though. Was on a 1070TI and had just built a new computer. That card was the only one I could get my hands on after 8 months of trying. So, I'm not going to change to a 4000 series and I don't think I will be buying a 5000 series card either. Not if the pricing is what it is now.
I'm still rocking my 1080ti and do not want to change it at all. I've sometimes the surge to, but then I go lookup at the price and forget that idea really fast.
1080ti was THE shit. Amazing card. I settled for regular 1080 because the value was insane. But a 1080ti now is still a damn good card. You can still play a bunch of good games on that thing. And yeah. Its cost back then was a fraction of the cost of the current high end lineup.
It was going like this: GeForce 2 mx 200, fx5200 128bit, 6600GT DDR3, 7600GT, 275GTX, RX580 and then i3-13100 iGPU. Why? Every upgrade felt like 2-3x or more increase in speed for the same more or less hours worked. Then prices exploded. What the hell happened with i3-13100? Nothing, I stopped gaming, there are better things to do in life.
Good value? You’re forgetting one thing though: The width of the bus on the so called good value cards has been cut down by NVIDIA , which makes the cards a downgrade from previous cards depending on the use case of course. Read up how the developers of Yuzu have destroyed the RTX4060 with its measly 128bits of memory bus. You need to pay more now for the same performance and that’s just a fact.
Well the LTT video on the Super cards got low view numbers because it was super late and also quite bad (which isn't new for their videos, what is new is that people know about it ever since GN exposed them). But the big problem right now: The world is in some rough economic times, and in times like that "luxury" products like gaming hardware is not one of most people's priority.
The 980 TI was the best. Still had it till last october and i played Elden Ring and The Witcher 3 Full HD max settings without any problem. It lasted me like nine years.
I am still holding onto 1080ti for many years. Though I'm not gonna worry about gaming GPU. I'm more interesting in ai workstation cards. Though I will see how that goes.
Bad coders..., unable or unwilling to streamline their code so it uses less hardware. In other areas a "bad" looking game can have allot more CPU stuff going on in the background that earlier games did not. For example Doom 1 takes allot less resources than say Brutal Doom mod.
Stop insulting me young man!
Hello there. How's it going?
😂
Lollll
Get back home old guy 😂
Ok boomer
Nobody cares because the hobby turned into a tiered money grab.
This
There's lots of good games, emulation is better than ever to play old games, the indie scene is fantastic, and steam has AAA games on sale regularly. You are just too old or boring to care. This is the best year for metroidvania, rpg, and fighting games. Fps has dozens of contenders and rpgs like sea of stars, Zelda, baldursrs gate, and final fantasy.
It's not them; it's you.
It has always been about the money. You're just forgetting all the shitty money-grabbing games of the past.
@@Nostalgiaforinfi Cringe gaslighting that simultaneously completely misses the point. Bravo shill.
Because the perfect gpu at the time is the Rx 6700xt the only one with high VRAM, fast and affordable. It is a disgrace what's going on with the new gpu releases in both brands.
Also most new games that are worth playing run well in old generation because they are also being launched for ps4
People are not caring because Nvidia and AMD have kept their prices high after the crypto boom and bust, they still seem to think gamers are willing to pay a ridiculous price for a GPU.
We're gamers, not miners.
They sort of are in Europe tho; the 4070 Super and the 4070Ti Super both got sold out very easily in a bunch of countries here (not sure about ALL of them but from what I read, people pay big money for the new gpus - and they're even more expensive here than in the US, like a 4070 ti super was $830 converted where I live, NOT AT ALL $600)
Yet people still keep buying them or companies (sadly can't win against that) otherwise they wouldn't cost as much right now while we speak, we don't see a massive discounts happening.
Somebody is still willing to pay this much.
Nvidia and AMD have kept their prices high, because gamers are willing to pay a ridiculous price for a GPU...
the era of mining is over now is the era of gen A.I is multiple times worse than mining for pc gamer
@@Zaefnyr Moore's Law is Dead has reported that the Super series was released in small numbers, especially the 4070Ti Super. Selling out in this volume is not impressive.
Here laid the reasons
1. AAA Games Sucks
2. Graphics cards are money grabs
3. Good Games are not that demanding
and good games are not being made, its mostly casino style mobile now. They love to make stores and DLC's but they hate to polish and release a complete game.
@@sergiolandz6056right I played doom 3 and oblivion for the first time in 2023 and stray was great imo
imo, the only good game thats demanding is 100% alan wake 2. if you’re playing on pc and want to play alan waks 2, i’d atleast have a 3070 or higher to have one of the best gaming experiences imo. alan wake is so fucking good man…
@@kaishajacobye ill check alan wake when the 5060 comes out
@@SupG-oy4le you wont regret it! while alan wake 2 has a bad rep in the pc world for being “unoptimized”, i’d say its like the crysis 2013 situation where it took up to i think the GTX 10 series to run crysis at max setting? this is the same situation as alan wake 2. doesnt defeat the fact that it is an absolute underrated gem.
that's a freaking point. a mid range card now costs more than a ps5
Well the PS5 is kinda below average now being that most games struggle at even doing 4k not just 60fps. So these so called mid range gpus are actually way better than a PS5 which is like two generations old in graphics performance. The 4070 super is waaaaaaaay better than a PS5, hell it would be awesome if the PS5 had something similar to a 4070 super in it.
@@ghstbstr Windows games no longer look better on an RTX XX70 card than they do on a ps5, and i have a 3090 (which is a tad bit better than a 4070).
No one games at 4K (it's a thoroughly stupid idea on any display smaller than ~40") and steam hardware stats demonstrate that (3.78%)
@@BOZ_11
I play at 4k because my PC, PS5, XboxSX are are connected to my 65in uhdtv. So don't say no one.
@@ghstbstr Yep, when a Nvidia 60 series card like the 4060 beats out the PS5, then you've gotta ask can a PS5 even judged as being equivalent to a mid-range GPU anymore. I'd now call the PS5 as being equal to a upper budget range GPU at best. TBH, at launch it was judged as being equivalent to a mid to lower mid-range GPU, so it's no surprise that it's slipped down the stack a fair bit during that time.
Also a 4060, 6700 and 6700XT will all beat out the PS5 in most scenarios and all of them can be picked up for $330 or under. Which is not exactly more costly than a PS5.
@@BOZ_11 Most PS5 games use a mix of medium or high graphic settings, whilst a PC can go full hog and use Ultra settings across the board. Admittedly, it's not as huge a leap as it used to be in the past, simply because we've now reached a point of "realism" in games, where any improvements are just harder to make out and only look more minor. The closer that graphics get to looking realistic, then the less noticeable any improvements to them will become.
However, one bonus to having more powerful GPU's on PC, is the higher frame rates and higher resolutions that they bring. Let's face it, the consoles are only mid cycle on their generation and we are already seeing several games on them now running in resolutions below 1440p (down to 720p at times) and frame rates capped at 30fps. On PC, pretty much only the most strapped for cash PC gamer or those with a PC Handheld would even put up with playing games in 30fps, these days.
The GPUs are only one side of the problem. I personally hate that games are becoming more demanding without looking significantly better than games that are 5-10 years old at this point. For example the comparison between Suicide Squad and Arkham Knight really showed that some studios are even going backwards in their graphics quality, while the system requirements are still going higher.
That's honestly a really good point. I want to watch a video on that!
Its because they replaced all the genius coders with various woke idiots that can barely code but as everyone is equally idiotic they don't see the problems.
Its so hard to find the old school genius coders who lived for it, now you have most people just doing it as a job with no passion because they think they will get rich.
Also gaming has become a factory for making money and nothing else, so you do see people trying new things when they can just churn out call of duty 35 and the idiots buy this garbage up. When is the last time a game like Thief 1 and 2 came out that were amazing.
I just started playing starfield and its just boring and empty, its garbage.
i guess the optimization becoming lazier?
@@mrmm1110 optimization is a thing of the past, the ya gotta pay to play thing is obvious with games but the lack of 'optimization' on the gpu and games sides are more glaring than that now aday..
nothing hurts more than knowing you dropped $1000+usd on a gpu(which struggled with driver issues for over a year to perform proper in VR while being touted as a flagship card!!$#~! *cough* 7900xtx *cough* 🤦♂ ) to find out it's struggling with games more so because of optimization.. its almost like after the rx580/gtx1080ti(2017) days we've been buying an unfinished product for too much money with bandaid fixes or shell out and buy the next generation flagship to get the BS we're promised.(*WHICH DOESNT HAPPEN LOL*)
@@ATomRileyAI thought it was just me, as a 38 year old I’ve seen it all in gaming. Almost all games that come out now bore the ever living crap out of me.
I think I’ve become Jaded knowing how far the gaming industry has fallen.
I used to wish for the days it would stop being nerdy and be more mainstream. Now I wish it was niche again and every e girl on the planet wasn’t trying to become a streamer by playing apex legends all day.
People stopped caring cause the prices went off the roof. Sub 700$ there's basically nothing you couldn't get similar performance on last generation cards for about similar amount of money. And sub 500$ is even worse. Just adding more vram doesnt make a card worth buying if the raster performance is within margin of error from last gen
Are you stupid???😂😂😂 Or you thing that 3090ti is really last generation or flagship of 30 series??? The true flagships of 30 series where 3090 and 3080, 3090ti was added in the last month! Of 30 series!
You have 4070, 4070 super that beat 3080, and 4070 super is like 3090. 4070ti and 4070ti super beats even that fake flagship of 30 series the 3090ti, and 4080 and 4080 super is 25%-30% batter than 3090ti(again the fake flagship of 30 series), 4090 is 60% better than 3090ti(again the fake flagship of last generation). It's a legendary generation.
And oftentimes you don't even get more vram this generation, you in fact get less.
Yep
based
but bruh, you get this amazing l3 cache that totally makes up for having 2017 vram paired with 2005 bus width!@@256shadesofgrey
When crypto miners started buying gpus like there is no tomorow, was the day gpu companies discovered a infinite money glitch
Well, now it’s finite i guess
@@paulmark992 well with bitcoin going back up to $70k today, you might have said that too soon. Fingers crossed it crashes again...
@@paulmark992 nah A.I is the new money printing
Nowadays it's hard to get your hands on a 4090. The recent AI fad means that they sell like hotcakes. Which is ridiculous considering that it's a $2000+ GPU in most markets. I'm interested to see what happens when the AI bubble bursts.
Are we gonna get 4090s for dirt cheap when the crappy companies die off?
@@masterkamen371don’t think they going nowhere probably as the better it get will need more power
There's a problem when a single component costs as much as every other component combined.
true. this is rape in daylight.
I'm new to GPUs, just starting to look at a gaming PC over gaming consoles. From what I gather, it seems since 2020 that maybe the makers out there are just putting out something of minimal improvement over the last gen, hoping to get a bunch of buyers, then releasing something a little better to get the braggers and always-have-to-have-the-newest card out there, rinse and repeat.
Last week I pulled the trigger on an open-box 4060 Ti 16GB OC for $415. I'm hoping this gets me a decent entry level experience on an old budget Xeon E5 build.
@@Shadow_Banned_Conservative
10 years ago, that tier of card should have never been higher than $300.
The recent overpriced stagnation kills me.
Here's to making my 2070 last another four years...
That's kind of the thing though... a GPU is basically just a separate computer that you plug into your main computer.
A GPU board has the processor core, attached to a main board that has power delivery and I/O, through which the RAM is attached, and there's a cooler slapped on so the thing doesn't melt itself. That's basically the core of any other computer.
Then you just get a PSU to feed your main computer and the small computer attached to it, some storage to store files to feed both computers, and a case to throw it all in.
And if you've budgeted well, since gaming is, generally speaking, GPU limited, you're buying a higher end graphics specialized computer than your main computer.
The current market is definitely overpriced at the moment... but it shouldn't be that strange for a GPU to cost more than the rest of your core components combined. You are, essentially, buying two computers.
This is why I shop AMD, got my 5700XT Nitro+ on sale for an absolute steal like 4 years ago and have been enjoying it ever since. Buying higher end or even top end cards from NVIDIA is a waste imo...
AMD always has better bang for the buck in raw performance. "b-but ray-tracing and DLSS!!" DLSS really only works half the time, and doesn't make up the difference if you can get in an AMD card that's 30% better in raw performance for less money. On top of that damn near everyone I've spoken to turns ray-tracing off to get more FPS over a few extra reflections and shadow's, even with 4080's in their rig they still turn it off.
I've considered upgrading to a 7900 XTX but there's honestly no real need, I can count on one hand the number of games I've ran into that forced my 5700XT to drop setting from Ultra to High. That's also a reason why GPU's don't matter anymore, we've kinda hit a wall with graphics in games, most current gen game aren't a massive leap over last gen, most people like me that had a decent rig 5+ years ago aren't looking at their system in new game and going: "damn I really NEED an upgrade."
We don't care about it in Brazil anymore simply because no one can buy them. Like, we earn anywhere between 9 to 19x less than other countries yet at best case scenario possible, we pay 2,5x the MSRP of everything, at bad scenarios... well, equivalent to YEARS of rent and more than 2 cars would cost, enough to buy a high-grade super bike. We earn barely enough to pay for electricity alone, let alone paying months of rent or even years of it on a computer part. Imagine a 4080 costing $4000 MINIMUM while you earn about $290 a month. Yeah, it is THIS bad outside the US and why PC gaming is not as popular as it should be. It's a rich people-only hobby.
This is way too real. People outside America earn more than two times less than them while paying twice or more their prices.
For any Americans reading this, imagine a 4080 costing $4000, that's the converted price you pay BEST CASE SCENARIO if you live outside the US.
It’s literally because of your government. You guys have ridiculous tariffs on electronics that serve no benefit besides keeping the population years (if not a decade) behind technologically.
@@johnmoore1495 they do everything possible so the country produces as little as possible. It has been proven time and time again what makes a country productive, yet they take the exact OPPOSITE ways of making things better. Also, they always give the same excuse for these unfair and abusive taxes, saying that it is to protect the "national industry", I am missing the part where brazil has ever produced eletronics in its whole existence. Let alone the most important and advanced eletronics on the planet.
@@wallachia4797 Imagine paying $4000+ for a computer part while you earn on average $290/$300 a month... this country makes people SICK. We are beyond done with this place and all this bs. I still remember when a 3090 was costing over $7000... a 3080 $3000... we earn from $290 to $300 on average... people are só DONE with brazil. In a while we are gonna have to pay taxes to breathe. We work 5 months a year just to pay taxes... this place is unbelievable, it's so bad most people would refuse to believe how bad this place is and call bs on the allegations.
@@POLARTTYRTM yeah it makes no sense when you have no tech industry to begin with. Honestly tariffs really only work when you’re a top country putting tariffs on a country with low power, otherwise it gets incredibly messy due to retaliation.
In India, you can buy a 4k 55" TV + big fridge + front load washing machine for the price of 4080. And for 4090 price, you can buy a good used car.
facts.
The tax on these cards over here is just insane! Over 10k( over 120$) just in tax.
Whoa! That's low cost of living there.
@@MellowWater double that for Pakistan 😭
like i said no one cares because it "costs" to much nowadays
Nvidia discovered that selling GPUs as luxury products makes them more money even if they sell less due to margins.
exactly, and look at their market cap, trillion dollar company, you dont get there with giving people a good deal.
This happened in a lot of a different areas of consumerism. But there seems to be a trend back towards budget friendly products. I think we will see a shift in the market in the next 5 years. Currently the GPU market is inaccessible to new entry level builders and they are a huge share of the market, and companies don't want to leave that money on the table. so they will be coming for the budget minded builders pockets soon.
You do realize you're buying supercomputers
exactly
True, a GPU 4090 for 2.300$ you can get a great profit in that...BUT...there are 2 problems:
1º You have a super resource for play "games" and watch porno (Inefficient market), its like a buy a truck for go to the supermarket (Trucks sellers are so happy of course).
2º They are expelling the gaming community from the PC, so it is not surprising that the world of video games on mobile phones has exploded in the last years.
cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/ywAViVcHwrZRZTfnJ4aDTK-650-80.jpg.webp
The reason the GPU market is cooling off is that significant performance upgrades are hidden behind a paywall too steep for the majority of the enthusiasts.
The fact that prices cuts spontaneously happen when inventory becomes an issue is adding insult to the injury and amplify the customers dissatisfaction with the major brands.
It will become fashionable to root for Intel ARC when they get their performance on par.
It's cooling off because these companies failed to realize a nice portion of their sales were rich people trying to mine bitcoin. Now that THAT has cooled off, their sales dropped.
If gamer gpus don't sell, can Nvidia just use fab production space to make professional GPUs? It's the same die size right? for like mid-range cards at least? I say this because there is no point for Nvidia to cater to gamers if the margins are just better for professionals, apart from market share. Sure HMB2 memory is more costly but that's in the price. I suspect we will see gamer gpu sales continue to drop in the earnings reports.
At this point high end PC gaming is reserved for people with a job willing to invest that much into their hobby.
Which excludes quite a number of young people.
@@Thund3rstone, do you think that "old people" are the ones buying expensive cards? I guarantee you, it's certainly not us blue-collar "old people".
indeed, the new flagship from nvidida for companies is a freaking beast. And no, 99.999999% of the consumers won't buy it since it costs around €50000.
I'm an old gamer, and the main thing I've changed over the years is my patience level. I have conquered my FOMO, and am now never an early adopter of anything involving computer hardware or games. Let everyone else pay to beta test games and gear.
bang on the money!
I have the same philosophy it's always better to be one step back.
Also, every just released M$FT OS is a beta for about 3 years.
Yeah, at 31, I’m starting to feel that way too. It’s all just a scam to get you to buy the latest card. If you’re at 60fps on 1080p, you’re probably doing just fine. That’s what consoles are at anyway. I honestly don’t play all that much anymore. I still play games with my son, but I’ve pretty much replaced my own video games with computer hacking. I have been emulating the RE1 remake on dolphin these past couple days tho, I don’t study when I’m sick like I have been 😂 It’s kinda crazy how much more love was put into old games. The new ones are all just micro transactions and cash grabs for “AAA” studios.
@@countvonthizzle9623 that’s why I use Linux. Ever since steam came out with the steam deck (steam OS is Linux), Linux gaming has REALLY improved. Even some of the best titles run better through proton than they do on windows.
When people are systematically priced out of a market within just a handful of years they tend to have a mostly negative view of said market.
2nd hand 3070s are the best bang for buck atm
@@Truthseeker-iz3dj You mean those garbage from digging rigs?
Having to spend $500 for a decent performing GPU is the definition of BAD value.
greediness and monopolies - price fixing between the two giants.
I bought a windoforce GTX 980 with 500 euros ( meaning taxes too) back in 2014...
@@niklazz7037Hopefully Intel joining the GPU game can create some real competition and lower prices. The Arc A770 was solid value from all the videos and reviews I've seen about it, so the upcoming Battlemage line could be big.
it's 2 days of work for you, it's half of my monthly salary, I'd say it's good value for you.
I used to be so much into gaming but lately the industry has been doing a great job at making me not want to come back. Looking at game prices, shameless live service games, gpu prices. The industry is pushing me away and I doubt I am alone feeling like this.
I agree completely. Besides the bad value for money of cards, there just aren't compelling games to play that require such powerful cards. I'm still rockin a 2060 and it ran that abomination Bethesda released last year no problem.
I feel that, it's why I have stuck to indie games so much. Big studios are just not cutting it, and so many indies can run on old hardware no problem
same, thats why i have mostly played indie games since the ps2 era ended. Other than some specific games from companies that show some good will, no way im "buying" (renting) some bs "AAA" game thats full of gambling mechanist to try to manipulate me into paying more than its worth and also full of DRM
Exactly
I felt like you last year but indie and AA game companies have really re-ignited my love for good games.
Another thing you haven't mentioned is that new AAA games becoming more demanding and less optimized has caused more people to roll back to less demanding indie titles.
Yup, and those run on iGPUs half of the time
@@roqeyt3566Or by the least old low tier graphics cards. There are still some indie titles that require a slight gpu muscle, but still not as much as AAAs.
This. I expect games to run 144Hz at 1440p, if they don’t I’ll play games that will and wait for optimizations, if my hardware is capable of it I won’t waste time with games that aren’t.
@@moomoocowsly Let me rephrase it for you: It's because AAA games are shittier and shittier. Great graphics, and stop counting.
I think Doom 2016 was the last title that actually cared about optimization. Like, actually put a lot of time and effort into making it run well across a vast spectrum of machines at release (and even on linux, huh). They knew it was a demanding game, and they knew they had to optimize it well for it to sell well. And they nailed it, just like they crushed the apprehension about it actually being a good game and not another Duke Nukem disaster remake.
Everyone remembers the abuse video card companies did to their customers during the last crypto boom.
i.e. Selling in bulk to miners while claiming they are not.
My favorite was companies scalping their own customers with their own products. Yeah, we haven't forgotten that either.
yep, just don't buy them its the easy yet people will pay anything for 5 FPS.
Lol wait so basically they kept giving us inflated prices for gpus cause they were out....because they were purposely selling to miners, that's beautiful...-.-
gamer need to realize that the world is not running around them
Its killed any passion i had in PC gaming. I'm like whatever at this point. Will very likely just keep running my 2 Dell Optis with 1050s until AMD comes out with an APU that pushes out RX 580 tier graphics. IDAGF anymore.
There are no games coming out anyway and 4K at 120hz does absolutely nothing to excite me. I grew up in the 80s and 90 when real graphical leaps were happening.
We are not looking for better graphics anymore, we're just looking for a stable performance in today's gaming era, because companies expect graphic cards to fix the lack of polishment they deliver to their own games
What killed my interest was the scalpers buying up all the inventory and charging insane prices for it. When the card makers saw how much the scalpers were getting, they said we want a bunch more too. I'm just riding out my old build till it dies, it's running everything I do just fine for now.
I just got a i7 8700 32 GB RAM with 1080ti build for $500 USD not seeing a need to switch for another 5 years at least
NVIDIA 2060 here, 3 years with it, I can play 4k games and i won't change it soon.
@@David-ck2dc Ayy, another 1080 Ti brother. In fact we have very similar PC specs builds. And yeah I don't plan on upgrading.
@@SuperFriendBFGI have the MSI Seahawk 1080ti, which one you got bro?
@David-ck2dc ASUS Prime Z890-A, with an 8086 (Basically a 8700K AFAIK).
1. Lackluster improvements from generation to generation if any (while costing significantly more).
2. The total lack of focus on the budget and midrange cards that 95% customers go for (xx50, xx60, xx70).
3. The complete lack of touch with reality. GPU manufacturers still think we're in 2020 and people are willing to pay obscene prices for a GPU.
yeah, I mean the lack of new revolutionary features with the gnu's it just pathetic and the cost is sky rocketing. the new feature now days are just rehashes of the old ones nothing new comes out any more like shadow play was new a long time ago they promise us ai but where is it as a free download nowhere to be found.
Bro we had a huge global inflation. Basically speaking every country went full socialism mode and printed loads of money.
Everything is more expensive. Have you checked food prices prior 2020 and now?
Blame the politicians and their socialist ideas
@@visitante-pc5zc yeah good luck on that idea kiddo with your playschool printer they just added a bunch of money to the online banking system eliminating the need to print more money out cause don' Tcha know moneys expensive to print easier just to add ones and zeros in the banks computers
@@visitante-pc5zc yeah but that turned out to be a lie
to hike up prices
@@visitante-pc5zc Look, kid, it's not mandatory to comment
People hate it because the fundamentals of gaming has changed. It's no longer fun gaming hobby but a constant job like cash grab. Every game treats you like it's your job to play them.
On top of that, the hardware itself is no longer fun. Everything is exciting until you look into the price which makes it no longer exciting. Imagine the 4070ti coming in at 600$. It totally can. That would have bought in the excitement again.
4070 super is 4070 ti at $600
@@nttinvis No, the 4070 super should be 500$. The 3080 is 90% of its performance so it would only make sense if the 4070 Super is 500$. Thats how the 3070 was priced and so was the 2070.
@@nttinvis The 7900XT is now at 700$ which is finally the right price. It costs the same as the 6800XT/3080 and performs 40% faster. The right generational leap. Similarly the 7800XT is on the 3080 12GB level and costs 500$. Perfect pricing.
I agree the live service model has been a disaster for console and pc gaming. I despized it way back when it was prevelent in the mobile market with gacha games and a bunch of non gamers in suits just want to cram it in everything because $$$.
@@einstien2409 ik i only said that is the price... i wish it was less
I haven't upgraded my GPU since 2018. Whatever happened to $200-350 midrange cards?
For real no need to . It's mostly hype and what's the point if the game AAA😂 is going to be a broken bugs mess
they're still 400 to 700 dollars for midrange cards... its called inflation bud... rtx 3070 is ~500 usd. seems fair to me.
Bro I love paying more while wages are stagnant and purchasing power decreases everyday. I'm glad It's just inflation and it's fair :). They definitely aren't scamming us
@@mnemonix1315 And that's fine if you make 6 figures or have literally zero expenses. But when the GPU, CPU, FoodPU, GasPU, MortgagePU, etc are all shooting up at the same time, gaming is the first thing that's going to get neglected... DLSS is the only reason I can run modern AAA games, not that it even matters since everything I play these days that isn't Elden Ring will run on a TI83 Plus, lol
I bought a 4060 for $300 recently (upgraded from the legendary 1070) and am happy with it so far, got me 75fps in CP77 with high raytracing which would have been unheard of a few years back. While it does suck we don't see the incremental improvements for so cheap that we used to, I think things are a lot better than all the doomsayers are making it out to be. I guess the fact I work with AI sometimes, and have to do rendering type stuff that heavily benefits from the AI crap on the cards, makes it a sweeter deal. Let's face it, the time of cheap hardware improvements like in the 2000s is pretty much over. Same with graphics, graphics have barely improved at all in 10 years outside of RT
Arc isn't boring. You never know if it will be supported next year. The excitement is so high.
It's like Russian Roulette. Very exciting.
thats what they said last year :(
Lol, uncertainty is so exciting. Do you hear yourself?
@@HenryTownsmyth well I think he is joking but meh.
You don't know they've signed a deal with TSMC for the 3rd gen Celestial as well right? Right?
Should I buy a 5090 for $5000cad when they drop or should I put the money towards a down payment on a house?
Can’t wait for the card to be 3999$ usd and then become 6500$ cad because nvidia loves to suck people dry.
A mere house? With 5090 money, you could get a lakeside mansion.
you could buy 10 5090s for $5000 before you could put a down payment on a house in Canada lmaoo
its better to save wt u have and leave before its too late, I guess 😅😅
My comment got deleted damn
Can definitely speak from my perspective - I can't afford a GPU that costs more than $350, and it feels like either I'm being priced out of this market entirely, or I'm getting scraps and leftovers. The only launch that's been interesting and affordable to me is the 7600 XT, and that's a terrible bodged together monstrosity with a 128 bit bus and 16GB in clamshell configuration. It's just not worth upgrading. And honestly? The games aren't worth it either, most AAA games that are coming out are a waste of time of money AND need NASA hardware to run. I've been playing Tekken 8 at 1080p on my 6650 XT and that's been a blast, that's really what modern titles should be aiming for, but most UE5 games are unoptimized garbage. Here's hoping game optimization gets better, or GPU prices get better. I know most people care about GPU value, most can afford to buy in the $500 to $600 range, but I really want to see a healthier entry level market with good $200, $250, $300 and $350 options for normies. Because otherwise what's the point?
I think most people can't afford those 600$ cards. they just don't talk about it
@@redstoneactive6589we do, we just don’t go around preaching like the people who can afford them
i totally agree, i got so angry at this shit that i told myself ill never buy not used gpu, actually i spent like 10$ on my build by getting worse condition parts and repairing them (and finding i7 3770 with gigabyte card in scrapped pc). Just got rx 570 i custom made airflow so i can overclock the shit out of it, got it to 1500 Mhz and 2150 Mhz memory speed and gpu doesnt ever go over 60 degrees. Everywhere is hope man and tbh It gives you so much satisfaction when you can play cyberpunk 2077 on 60 fps on 10$ pc
thing that cost me the most was roccat kone emp mouse for 4$ with a doubleclick. And if someone want to say that switches for this mouse cost something i didnt buy a switch i repaired old one XDDD
I just gaved up dude if you want a good gpu you just have to become rich no option really sad 😢
I've been working in IT for over 20 years. I've been building my own PCs for longer than that. I see no value in any of the current gen cards that cost more than my PS5. The market is in need of a correction. Prices must come back down to earth to make PC gaming worthy of my attention again. Right now I primarily play on console.
Not only gpu'ss, but also motherboards and cpu's. It's ridiculous. You used to be able to buy a lower middleclass motherboard for like 100 bucks. Good luck finding anything that isn't absolute barebones in that price range today.
absolute normie
It's called a paradigm shift. The future of GPUs is not gaming. It's things like AI and HPC. And a similar thing is happening to the PC market in general. Mobile devices, smart TVs, and gaming consoles are taking over the home computing market. For most people those devices can serve their computing needs just as well, if not better. That means the PC market is going to be mostly servers, and high end workstations. The home PC is dying.
@@stefanl5183 I think that you are correct, but I would modify the PC dying part by saying it is cyclical. I've gamed on PC's since the early 1980's and I've started building and modifying them in the early 1990's. Some years I dropped the PC and went console and other years I got excited about the latest PC tech and built a new computer. I just went through a new computer building phase during COVID, but the GPUs, or lack thereof, were the piece that made me not build the next version. COVID forced me to install older used GPUs and now I can't bring myself to spend the extra for a new card. Hopefully, the price to performance will come back down and I will build that next new computer. The future might be powerful newer mini PCs, but unless the GPU manufacturers get behind them, the GPU portion will be handled by the onboard CPUs.
@@deswill2737 yeah this dude is boomer tier... muh ps5 XD patheeeetttic... this whole comment senction is cringe and absolute midwits when it comes to building computers... a ps5 is 570 dollars an rtx 3070 is 619... so you save 50 dollars.. in this economy 50 bucks is nothing. I'm glad were moving back to a niche community. Maybe graphics cards reviews are going down because everyone wants iPads, PS(x), s(oy)witches. I cant wait for Windows to die so it's posix compatible systems or nothing, and the internet is only real nerds again.
I stopped caring when "entry level" GPU's started at $400. Rolling my 1080Ti until the day I find a game I really want that won't play on it.
I just built a 4770k 1080ti build And I only want to switch out my hard drives for a ssd. The newest I'll ever go is a 2080ti, but only for a new build much later.
I'm still rocking my RX580. Will overclock it before shelling out $500 for a card that doesn't do anything extra.
i kept hanging onto a 1070 ti for six years after it launched, I only recently upgraded, going all the way to the RTX 4090. but I also use the 4090, for what its really intended for, professional grade animation work. and when it comes to 3d animation, time is money and the less time spent waiting for the computer to render, the better. thus for a 3d animator, flagship cards make sense. Though i do agree, prices are still too high.
Nvidia and AMD constantly advertise their flagship cards as gaming cards, but the truth is, they are just way too overpowered for that. The only reason I an think of for a gamer to get a flagship GPU is if they dont want to replace it for ten years.
1080 TI whore here. My monitor is 1080 144hz, no point in me updating unless i go all the way. And since I dont hardcore game anymore I probably wont until this rig dies.
Same lol 😊
We actually have a bigger problem like underwhelming releases like Starfield. if the games that require faster GPUs suck then no need to buy a faster GPU. plus with the cost of living increasing. for Nvidia or Amd to get people interested again they will need to significantly improve the price-to-performance ratio on entry-level GPUs.
Games are also terribly optimized nowadays, because gaming companies don't care about quality and just wanna make as much money as fast as possible. So the consumer is stuck, especially at the midrange, playing games at 1080p for the past 6~7 years.
the issue is that games and screens got more demanding then the best gpu's can provide.
when granking the graphic up and running on my double udh display i get 25 to 35fps at best.
almost feels like 2k again lol
@@JonoSSD It's not even "making money" for the big ones, its increasing the stock value explosively.
They're under control of the shareholders etc and those people demand an absurd growth of the company value no matter the stability or viability of it.
And if the company folds under the massive stupidity of the whole thing? they sold their stocks 15 minutes before it, and its time to find a new victim.
people pay more than 1000$ for a fucking smartphone.. which costs 250$ in production. thats what the VRAM of a 4090 costs
Starfield runs fine on my Xbox Series X
1080ti gang, hold the line
So annoyed with myself that I was broke when the 1080Ti was released (started college, no income). Probably the GOAT of all GPUs lol
lmao, how this 7 year old gpu has still been able to give me no reasons to upgrade is insane. I changed the thermal pads on mine and it runs like 👌
I didnt hold the line and got a 4070S. It's good value and doubled my fps, but now I get microstutter in Palworld...
They'll never make another 1080ti. I have it in my closet. Rocking a 3080 10gb. If my 3080 ever croaks and I can't RMA for whatever reason it's getting tossed back into my PC.
best GPU of all time
For the same reason average people don't care about watching every single Lamborghini review.
cause some companies bring out games not even PC GPUs can handle, than say "you need to upgrade".., wtf??
No, those games are heavily unoptimized. Theyre just being lazy
*then say
@@EvilNeonETC or people forget there is an options tap you dont need to play at ultra high on everything all the time
@@pingvingaming games that even when run on low settings with adequate hardware, still underperform, silly :p
@@pingvingaming OP is referring to starfield. An objectively poorly made and horrendously optimized game. But thats far from the only new game with the same issue.
Had a 1050ti, bought a 4070super.... I literally maxed out my budget with this GPU and I still feel unsatisfied with it being only 12gb and not 16...
Bro no hate but why you bought a 4070 super? 😢
Yeah why not a 7800XT (7800)or a 7900 GRE* (7800XT)?
They are in the same ballpark range....
And that 12 GB VRAM, and the offer I had for my old PC are what made my buy a 7900XT, because back then none of the 4070s made sense, and the 4070Ti was just insane.
Back then it was basically NVIDIA saying: "That'll be 1k+ Euros for a GPU that you'll have to replace in 2-3 years! Oh, that's just the premium for all these nice features you can't use most of the time, unless you play some very specific games!"
I have 3 games that can use Raytracing, one was a freebie, and I think 4 that can use DLSS 2.
And in two of them DCS and War Thunder I would never use them, as they and TAA make it near impossible to spot enemies, or use the HUD.
And safe for the price, I have not regretted buying that card, it is sn absolute beast in Rasterization, which is 99.5% of my games and gametime.
Combined with 64GB RAM and a 5800X3D on a X570S Board, and NVME drives with cache, i'm getting some insane fps in Arma 3 and DCS.....in 3440x1440!
If I'll replace something in the next few years, it might be the CPU/Mainboard/RAM combo, because most of my games, like DCS, AC, ACC, AmS2, Arma3, are cpu limited.
And that only if the AMD Ryzen 9000X3D are good enough.
*GREed, chinese wallets Getting Really Eviscerated, Greatly Reduced Expectations, aka not really a 7900, but rather a 7800XT (16GB VRAM and 256-bit bus).
Edit: Typos.
@@hellspawnx3526 cuz a. The 6800 non XT swft xfx I bought before broke in under a week so I couldn't justify buying amd again, b. Before I buy a 580€ 7800xt I used a coupon and bought the 4070 super for 620€ and finally c. The 4070 super performs overall better, has all the features every game has, is more energy efficient and thus cheap over a longer period of using. 16gb would have been nice, but it's not necessity at this point. I guess the 5070 will have 16gb and I might upgrade to it in a year or two if I get another coupon or it's on a rare sale after I sold the 4070 super used
yup you might as well went for the 4060 ti and save some bucks for the next system down the road
Should have got the rx7800xt nitro + bro. In my opinion compared to 3070 its been great.
Remember back in the long-long-ago time of the mid-2010s when mid-range GPUs for regular consumers with regular sized wallets only costed around $200-$400 dollars, and you got great performance to run the current generation of games for the next couple of years?
That's the difference between being young and excited to build a system around such a value beast and a Zimmer frame.
My budget even now for a GPU is 240$.
I simply wait it out and buy used.
Got a 1 yo used 3060ti for 230$ a few months ago and it's all I need for my needs.
Plus I never fell for the 4k marketing shills and their push to convince me to upgrade to 4k.
3060ti for 1080p is a freaking beast.
All super smooth sailing as I target 1080p/high/60fps settings.
Also don't fall for the Ray tracing nonsense unless you have money to burn on the top end gfx cards.
@@main_stream_media_is_a_joke Still, it used to be that such a budget could buy you the equivalent graphics card brand new. Now you have to wait for it to become available used at such a price.
@@main_stream_media_is_a_joke 60 fps is great for single player, on competitive games your dead before the enemy is rendered, try something like war thunder at 60 fps then at 400.
@@outtheredude I get your point but things being what they are, a 1 yo well maintained gfx card(still with 3+ years warranty) is in my books a freaking amazing deal as compared to the ridiculously priced mid range "latest" gfx cards for $400/500+.
@@GoonyMclinux You may be right but since I play only SP games.... MP performance does not matter for me.
Here's my take. The problem isn't really with the GPUs, it's with games.
Basically all new games are horrendous so why do you need a new GPU if you can play all the games you ever would want to play on max settings using a 10 year old GPU?
I think that one thing that nobody discusses is how better and better performance of graphic cards is no longer used to deliver actual better looking graphics, but to enable the software developers to get away with more sloppy code, models and bloat. And I got some great examples of it.
Paradox Interactive makes their game on Clausewitz Engine 3 since 2019. All the new engine really did was to add 3D rendering to their map strategy games.
In 2019 with their first game on it Imperator:Rome it was running smoothing on my 1050ti. But since then I could see the gradual decrease of performance in their newer releases.
The last major update to Crusader Kings 3 (a map game, with low fidelity character models) somehow causes my graphic card to choke, and I'm basically forced to play on minimal settings.
A similar thing goes for games like Witcher 3 after the Ray Tracing update, they haven't changed anything but the game now runs like shit and actually looks worse without the ray tracing because they had removed the ambient occlusion options.
There are probably loads of other games that you could find, where the developers don't bother to optimise it, these days just because "It runs good on our hardware". Even though, an average player has no reason to upgrade their graphics card unless all they want is to play new AAA releases.
Unreal Engine 5 has turnkey "make game look good" settings such as Lumen, and most developers use commercial assets which are designed to look good and not to perform well. This means making a good looking but heavy game is basically the default, or you can put a ton of money into making it run better. The choice is obvious.
Same with game sizes being unreasonably too large now, all a consequence of the lack of optimization.
TRUE TRUE TRUE
Yep, PC gamers are subsidizing bad optimization.
Last time GPUs were exciting was with pascal and Polaris in 2016 Your mid range GTX 1060 and RX 480 were stronger and had as much or more VRAM than OG GTX Titan, a $1k extreme card from 2013.
Those cards continue to be extremely popular 8 years since then. I think we are on the same situation we were when Intel had no competition and was slacking on the CPU front (2012 - 2017)
the flying saucer ends up being a Frisby🤣🤣🤣
Graphics cards mattered 1993-2012... now, not so much
for real. like you said when new affordable gpus come out, people get interested because most fellas COULD BUY THEM. Now getting refurbished 2nd hand seems to be smarter since theyre cheaper, which results in less interest for new cards
@@engineeringVirtue considering new gpu's are starting to crack from their own weight and melting their power cable's apu's are the future my friend they are catching up to gpu's rapidly now and won't crack under their own weight🤣🤣🤣
Not only the things you said, but on top of that, most modern AAA games are just unimpressive, so ultimately it leaves us asking why should we care to spend increasing prices on GPUs to play games that aren't even that fun (and want to further drain our wallets)?
this, my friend just built a nice new pc. spent around what i spent for mine, he will realize soon that theres no point in spending 2k+ on a pc with how new games are currently running
@@Swampyballs69 yeah, i mostly play emulation, indies and Vintage Story + HEAVLY modded java Minecraft, triple A are just story boring games mostly.
I realy miss the psvita/psp/3DS and console double A games.
Yeah video games and graphics cards are like hot dogs and hot dog buns. You don't usually buy one without the other.
If I'm playing indie games which are basically all low poly because those are the games that are actually fun then I don't need a new graphics card. People don't buy games to have another performance test on their cars they buy them to play them and have fun, the graphics of the game are only a small portion of that.
Because now you can finaly run Crysis.
@@DarkusObscurius same i emulate all the time and play games that arent even demanding lolol
Never upgrade your GPU way ahead of you with 1050Ti still kicking
Exactly! If it works, then why bother?
GPU'S have become like phones.
Be rich - Nvidia/AMD
Fr I kinda forgetting what IPhone is out now is on 16?
Except phones are kinda necessary but gpus are mostly for leisure (gaming for the most part) and if it stresses you out(prices) more than giving you a fun time it ain't leisure
gpus are much worst than phones. idk about you but people can usually get phones for next to nothing per month ona contract with their service provider making phones alot more accessible to everyone. where as with gpus you have to pay these ridiculous high prices upfront.
it worst.
I remember building my first computer several years back and a ~ $340 CPU and a ~ $560 GPU (7700K & 1080) where pretty much the best of the best back then...
Man how things have changed... for the worse 😐
Edit: The prices are roughly estimates from SEK to USD.
I live in Sweden and our stuff is always $100- $300 more expensive, except for cpu's, they're mostly the same price as in the US, for example.
I'm still using that combo 🤣
@@mikaboshia Mine still works to this day 👌😂
Regurlar maintence and some improvements have kept it alive and have served me well! I delidded the CPU and regurlary switched out the thermal paste.
Heck, the gpu even survived getting the liquid metal treatment, which bas a bad idea, don't do that people 😅😂
Some liquid metal shortet out 1 or 2 vram chips but after thorough cleaing it worked again! Unbelievable right?
Now the pc lives with my sister. She isn't a "hardcore" gamer so she doesn't play nearly as often as I do.
Also she enjoys older games alot more so she's pretty happy with the pc.
And on another note there's the problem with modern games, most of them atleast. They honestly Suck.
I started playing Minecraft in the Alpha/Beta days, and still play it to this day. And I mostly enjoy Singleplayer titles.
Bottom line is, upgrading to newer hardware is more of a hobby than a neccesity, an expensive one at that.
Most of the hardware I've bought since is used.
@@mikaboshia The 1070 is still really good if you don't care about RT which is something I really like about the 10 series GPUs
@@snowythecolaaddict I got a nice ultra wide 1440p monitor during black Friday. So I need some vram. Lol my 1080 can handle it on med to low to get at least stable 60fps. But I just what to actually use the monitor to it's best.
@@mikaboshia Yeah. I just have a normal 1440p monitor and when I had my 1070 before I gave my old pc to my brother, I could play some games at 60fps. Then again I stick to games like Stray which aren't very demanding
My one real problem is that these days, the best machine that you can build can not run all games at maxed out settings. Be it experimental graphics features, terrible optimization, driver issues... even if you fork out $3000, you would have no guarantee that you're set.
That used to be the norm before last gen; The highest settings were all future proofed. Crysis, for example, couldn't be maxed out for ages after it came out. Same for The Witcher 2.
That was the point of the latest game engines, Idtech and Unreal, that they pushed far to the future for the required performance to be able run everything max. That is something that changed when alternatives got out like Unity, that started to be very optimized for old generation resources in mind. And suddenly IdTech and Unreal were in same cart, optimizing everything for low end in mind.
Farcry and Crysis were games that really pushed far to the future until someone found 10 years later "Hey, we can run all in max settings". Similar as with ARMA 2 and ARMA 3, that you needed 10 years on both to be able run them. It was huge boost for egoistic narcissist gamers to praise their superiority via expensive GPU prices...
Ah the good ol' days when the ideal cards costed ~$300.
I think that we are partially responsible for this situation. Now, the solution seems reasonable: do not buy any new GPU until the manufacturers drop their prices.
I haven't bought a new gpu in 6 years, when will they drop?
They could not increase the processing power, because the import&export restrictions placed around GPUs.
or buy used maybe ?
We, or rather, The Braindead (always increasing in number) amongst us, are 100% responsible. If you can keep raising prices and STILL get your products sold, you ain't gonna suddenly lower them. Unfortunately.
lmao like thatll ever happen, theres a reason cod has millions of players who will drop hundreds on a single game.
The way I combat these insane GPU prices is stick to a 1080p monitor and just wait. There is no point making the problem worse trying to push too many pixels with higher resolutions.
Same here, 1080ti still rocking lol
Yeah I've been thinking a lot about this lately. As of now I have a used 6900XT with a 3440x1440p monitor. I'm thinking about at least downgrading to standard 16:9 1440p because Im not able to buy such an expensive gpu to keep up with the monitor down the line.
i tried to buy a used 1080ti but I got a used rtx 3060 instead because it was the same price @RedPanda_______
@@RH96OfficialChannel You don't need to revert. Monitors have aspect ratio scaling. You can run 2560x1440 on your ultrawide monitor and it will be presented correctly in 16x9.
When prices for everything skyrocketed I went from building outdated pcs with used parts I saved up for to barely surviving. Went from “I can’t wait to buy this gpu second hand” to “I can’t wait to buy food eventually.”
Things are better now, but I found single board computers are a cheaper and more enjoyable hobby for me personally.
makes one appreciate devs that optimize their games to play well across a range of lower and middle spec pcs. AAA should be taking notes, but they only care about quantifiable figures of money, much to their detriment. They have no idea how much they leave on the table with their greedy practices, because not buying something is not a quantifiable piece of data.
I think we have all watched mainstream gaming turn from entertainment into whale milk machines. Everything is meant to separate fools from more of their cash. It makes me appreciate old games before the greedy monetization schemes and nonexistent optimization. I already own enough good games to last me 2 lifetimes, and there are more too, for cheap cheap cheap. Older games are better, we're not missing anything other than feeling disrespected and made to be addicted, because that's what mainstream games are about now. It takes a Baldur's Gate 3 or a Palworld to come along and illuminate that fact every now and then, and the whole disgusting industry flips out about it and shows their ass every time.
We are meant to pay more, to get less. Hard pass! Easy hard pass! Keep it retro!
My awakening was kind of watching some random German kid building a PC with kind of strange components when I was in full marketing, drunk hype beast benchmark mode. The kid was so pragmatic and just identified his use case and knew what components would be able to do the job that he required. It really started to make me think about things more from how an engineer would look at something and how identifying the use case is the most important part. We see this in shoes, clothes, camping equipment, bicycles, cars, televisions and we get kind of caught up in the marketing and buzz and excitement. On the opposite side of the games. Also pray on this mentality in our quest for quality despite the diminishing returns. I look at a lot of cars now I wonder why the cheap cars are so bad and it's just not a lot of effort being put into these things to be competitive and the common consumer is easily distracted with knick knacks and doodads. Consumers have made their claims of what they want with their dollars and so manufacturers have obliged. You can say consumers have been coerced with marketing, but at the end of the day we are a critical part of the ecosystem and are participants in crafting the modern marketplace.
yeah I remember the start and later peak of the GPU price gouging and bitcoin farming that empowered nVidia to officially stop giving any fucks. A lot of second hand retailers and repair shops in my area had two stark paths: one of shutting down to leave their passion and go work as bartenders and the other where they lucked out and some rich kid with a disconnected VGA cable was willing to play serious money for basic fixes as long as it happened rapidly and so that kept them afloat at least to us outside observers. Suits ruined gaming, film, GPU pricing and actually all entertainment as a whole.
It's also worth noting that nVidia learned that a lot of people were willing to pay scalper prices to get the current generation GPUs. The pricing is as much the fault of the people with stupid amounts of disposable income as it is the manufacturers.
There is truth to what you say. If everyone stopped buying gpu's for a month, they would drop 50%. But we all know that gamers will not do this.
Yes, this is normal supply and demand at work. If the market will bear the cost, the price will continue to rise
Someone realizes that. Finally. Tictock addicts with zero attention span or discipline and mountains of covid money have dug a huge grave for everyone.
Remember when the government locked everyone in their houses and then printed a bunch of money and gave it to them so they had nothing to do but sit at home and spend money online?....
Pepperidge Farm remembers
Lmao ya blame individual consumers
There is a reason why the most popular GPUs on Steam hardware survey is RTX 3060 & GTX 1650. For majority of normal people there is simply no reason to buy anything with more performance when a high end GPU costs as much as entire PC with mid range GPU included. Soon situation will get even weirder as with AMD 8000G APUs, it will also be hard to justify buying entry level GPU at all. There are also things like power consumption and performance per watt which are also kinda terrible. High end GPUs can use like 300 - 400 watt on its own and if you game regularly, then it translates to huge electricity bills that are kinda unjustified, since all you are really getting by using high end gpu is higher resolution & ray tracing. But the $ cost is not worth it. On the opposite side we got a Steam Deck that uses less than 15 watts and can play anything within acceptable performance. During GTX 980 & GTX 1080 era, high end GPUs actually made perfect senses. Heck, if you have one of those cards there is no reason for you to upgrade (unless GPU dies & you have to replace it, but you will most likely end up with 4060 or 7600, and not something high end). PC gaming had never been this delaminated.
I own a $1000 6GB GTX Titan(Kepler era, 2013) I’m only now upgrading to a 16GB 4070 Ti Super, and only because it can’t run modern AI software like Stable Diffusion.
Otherwise it’s lasted 11 years of constant daily use and was plenty good for older gaming titles as well.
@@glenyoung1809 Wow
we need budget cards again, like 4030, 4050 and 7400, 7500 XT and they have to perform better than the 780M in the 8700G and it needs to start aat 220€ as much
The 8000G series can't even beat an rx570 which is like 50usd on the used market. They aren't that impressive.
Wherever i hear people asking about PC's mainly for their kids and gaming, the games specified are Minecraft, Fortnite and Roblox. You don't need a 2000-3000$ build with the latest and powerful GPU for those...
People play all sorts of games, the indie scene is big too, a lot of Steam games have low requirements. And even the latest and brightest are playable on mid to low specs new-ish PC's.
I got so tired of unaffordable GPU's that I just bought a console instead.
to be honest i have just given up on gaming except for the occasional older titles. This console generation has been a massive poopshow, and I have no interest in it. the AAA industry is just a disaster everywhere.
Exactly, this is why I left PC gaming.
Consoles hold much value for money and I do not need to bother with trying to hunt down GPUs and fine tuning games.
I have a PS5 and I dont worry about any of that stuff coz it just works.
My gaming habits is maybe 3 hours of gaming a week. So a console just makes more since. @@joelj457
@@joelj457 funny your reason for leaving PC is the same reason why I left consoles. They're not that good of a value for people like me. I hate paying for online on top of my internet bill, I do not like the fact that everything is all digital now but at least the steam store isn't going to randomly shut servers off for downloads unless Valve goes out of business. At least they're not going to snatch games you already paid for out of your library. Sony and Microsoft along with those shit heads from Nintendo are the reason why I'm losing interest in gaming. They are starting to affect the PC market with all the crappy games that nobody wanted on the consoles also coming to the PC. Doesn't help that Nvidia is greedy and AMD is mediocre
You still pay for games.
Just get a GPU and pirate shit. I save more money in the long run covering the cost of an entire PC in the 4yrs I own that PC before upgrading. Not to mention game retailers gouge the fuck out of you. Just went to PS5 website and the list of games for 60-100$+ is insane... That's 10 games a year for a $4k PC and likely at most 24hrs of game time per game.
Console = bad investment
The other issue is that PC game graphics are locked to whatever the consoles can do.
I remember when I would build a PC. Upgrade the graphics cards 18 months later, then replace the whole PC 18 months after that. The graphics cards refresh cycle was 6 months, not 2-3 years. The updates on each were significant, and the leap in games each year were huge. Now the costs are a lot higher, the cycle a lot longer, and the performance per dollar has been mostly stuck in slow for the past 5 years.
That is because Moore's Law is dead ...... The only thing that will move us forward now is dump traditional processing (incorrectly called rasterization since even ray tracing is rasterized) and move to completely AI generated frames
Five years? I would bet most games would still run fine on a 1080 ti. I can only think of one of my games that really needs more than that. Still running 1080p too. Never upgraded monitors either because it's all a money grab.
Yes, still running a RTX 2070 non super version that I bought 4 years ago thinking it was expensive to buy at 450 $ lol
Not only that, we haven't even gotten to the end of Moores law. That means that when that happens you can pretty much expect ZERO improvements
On the other hand, we can still play games on 5 year old hardware. People who think this stuff is expensive now would have lost their minds in the pre-nvidia 8800 days.
I bought my entire 2070 super, 2.5tb SSD, 16gb ram pc for $1000 a few years ago. Ain’t no way I’m spending the cost for my entire computer on a part. It’s insane how things have become and people just keep eating it up incentivizing this anti-consumer pricing to continue
That is what happens in an economy. When actors that have access to an infinite line of credit.
Paying more than 500 bucks is ridiculous. Im still using my 1070 form 2016. I admit though it is just recently starting to struggle so when i can afford it I'll build a new PC. Im literal proof though that you dont need to upgrade your GPU every generation to enjoy gaming.
I'm using gtx 1080 still. Just playing older games really, nothing new has made me wanna upgrade.
You use horrible card that even 4060 laptop rost it easily😂
I’m rocking a 4070, mainly wanted it cause I was planning to buy a 1440p monitor. I now have a 1440p monitor I immensely regret that choice as I mainly play osu and the motion blur was horrendous. I tried to buy another 1080p monitor but Amazon fucked up and sent me the wrong one so now I gotta go through that process and I’ll be waiting like a week or two to get a new one. I could have just bought a used 3070 or 3080
@@789uio6yloser
FSR 3 frame gen mods have been a lifesaver for older GPUs like pascal, WHEN MODDERS SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS INSTEAD OF NVIDIA AND AMD officially, because planned obsolescence of tech.
Some years ago (before 2020) I essentially bought a whole new gaming rig for about 3000$. Now today when I look at what I’d like to buy for my next rig, the GPU alone costs about 2500$, ALONE. This is just insane!
Thats a you problem bro. You don’t need a $2500 dollar card if you’re just gaming. I paid $2000 for my entire build in 2018, and I paid $2000 just a week ago for a new build since my old one is on its last legs, and most of the parts are pretty high end and good enough to run the ever increasing demands of modern video-games
EDIT: many people have offered their old cards to me and honestly I feel so grateful, so lets keep those good spirits up and if you have a piece of hardware that you no longer use and you don't want to go through with the hassle of marketplace or whatever, go your local computer store and give them away to the people who may need them.
I feel that, as consumers, but more importantly as enthusiasts of technology we have the duty to fight greedy companies by making sure that no old hardware goes to waste and everyone can keep the hobby alive and all that hippie bullshit.
Anyways, thank you so much for the comments, and really, there's no need to keep offering stuff, look around you and maybe you can help someone with their setup.
PC Master Community!
----
the other day my 7 year old msi 1050ti went a little wonky and I literally wanted to cry. I live in Chile and GPU's are SO. GOD. DAMMED. EXPENSIVE. That I literally would need to save money for like 10 months to a year on a minimum wage job to maybe MAYBE afford a used 1080ti
@@DaybreakPT dude, minimum wage is about 350 usd. The cheapest 3060 available in chile RIGHT NOW is 315 usd.
if the available cash i can save is about 20 bucks a month id need about a year and a half to get it. which at that point is going to be a 5 year old card
Do you NEED to replace a dying 1050ti with an even older, probably soon to die 1080ti when you could get say a 4060 or AMD equivalent that will actually last you the next 7 years instead? Going 3 gens up is a MASSIVE jump in GPUs, a 3060ti is as powerful as a 1080ti was.
Yo también soy de Chile, y si, concuerdo, pero no es tanto así, he visto muchas tarjetas buenas (3060, rx6600, 2060s y 1660) bordando las 150 lucas, e incluso algunas que bordean las 100 (rx580 8gb) claro, usadas, pero aún así, siguen siendo tarjetas muy buenas
RX 6600 is as fast as 1080...more efficient and cheaper
We have plenty of used 1080's in America for around $200. Have one of us send you one.
I don't know the salaries in other countries but... in Spain any 600€ graphics card is half of a normal salary. Not to mention those that cost more than €1000. Basically, a monthly payment of your annual salary goes to the graphics card so that after 2 years you have new models that are practically the same as the previous models.
Now imagine that with a salary of 200-400eur..
Not that bad eh, in my country 500$ is more than normal salary. People always joke about selling kidney to buy 1080ti in 2016, and right now, things get even worse.
600€ for a card is also half normal monthly salary in Slovenia. There is no justification to pay so much for a GPU that is outdated in two years time.
You save for several months like normal people do.
@@nexus02496in my country there is a neverending inflation and low interest rates and the more you try to save money the more you lose money and electronics priceses are way above the normal pay. It’s imposible to buy things without going in debt. Everytime you delay your purchase you lose more money but if you buy today you pay an interest rate but you’d pay much more if you saved money. Still debt inevitable
People are crazy if think that I will spend the same money of one GPU than buy 3 consoles of this gen.
no you're crazy, there is no reason to buy them all
also you could spend all the money of a single console on a 4060 it will run all games.
edit : the OP literally talked about a GPU not a whole PC. So it doesn't matter if you still have to buy other stuff in the context of the OP. Oh but it's console fanboys the same that liked the comment about PC being the same as console and having no mods lmao, harmon smith lookalike
@@me67galaxylifeno you are crazy. 4060 is just one part of the pc.
Don't forget the 4060 is a masked 4050
People don’t understand desktop will be allways better you have freedom to do what you want!! You can mod your games!! And no way consoles can run games like pc’s!! PS5 struggles to have 120 fps!! Bro my pc do 1000 easy!!! Yes desktops are expensive but you can play longer on them and for example to play online free games on ps you must pay 80 euros in Europe!! I play for free on pc! And games price is not even worth to compare ps charge to much for shitty games!!! And I mean on pc you have thousands of games for free to play and actually good games!!!
I've been a PC gamer since the 90s. Most games you can't even mod now outside of model hacks. There's no custom game modes or map making anymore. Hell we can't even host our own servers and create our own scripting language like AMX for counter strike and half life 1.
Pc gaming is barely different from console gaming outside of using a keyboard and mouse and not needing to pay to play online.
Part of the lack of demand is going to be that the 20-series from nvidia can already do almost everything in a normal environment. Upgrading past there just doesn’t really make sense anymore, unless you’re specifically interested in making a super powerful computer, rather than making your computer powerful enough to do whatever it is you want to do.
Yeah, I got 2060 5 years ago and it's still totally fine for multiplayer games. 4060 is only ~30% faster and costs $450 where I live. There is literally no incentive for me to upgrade. Every single-player game I want to play is available on PS5, looks and sounds great on my OLED TV + Sonos surround setup, and I can just chill on a couch.
@@aithney I've been kinda looking for a 2050. Who makes a standalone card? I've only seen them in laptops.
Mine is from Gigabyte
Yeah, I’ve had a 3070 since they launched. I play on a 2k monitor and have never had any issues. I’m not a snob for 800 fps so singleplayer games on high/ultra settings getting 100+ fps and comp games getting 200-400fps. This card is nearly half a decade old and still stomps any game that comes out that is at least decently optimized. No reason to keep up with the industry bc we have reached the computing limit needs of average consumers. The GPU industry is boring because nobody really needs an upgrade… games aren’t pioneering like crazy like they were in the 2010s. We can handle UE5 games and it looks lifelike already… where is there to improve besides raw complexity and scale to games which would require CPU and memory upgrade?
@@brendandrummond1739 The card is 3 years old and to some of us, is still completely unaffordable, that is outside US.
The thing for me is, i WANT to keep gaming on PC, and upgrading when it's needed to run newer games.
But what's killing the interest for me on "triple-A" titles right now, besides the things already said on the video, is the over reliance on upscaling and apparently not giving a shit about optimizing.
Now playing at your monitor's native res is nearly impossible if you want good performance ( 60+ fps ). I refuse to use upscaling at 1080p because it looks like garbage. Can we go back to having a clear image instead of this ugly blurry mess of today, please?
My 3060 should be plenty capable for playing at 1080p, but what i get when i try most new titles is it performing awfully unless upscaling is enabled. I want to go back to the 2010's era when games actually had a clear image output.
Nope. PC ports were always rushed. Now that upscaling means you can rush them even more, they will. But I don't think upscaling is even made for 1080p because, well, it looks horrible.
@@MrGamelover23 Not always, one recent example i can recall is Spiderman Remaster, it performs super well and still has great graphics. Also strangely games coming from Sony like Returnal, Horizon:ZD, Days Gone all have good optimization on PC. 😉
But i agree that most of the time they are rushed nowadays
@@danath5714 Yeah but sony games like microsoft are bad and woke.
@@Ay-xq7mj I'm not sure if this is advanced sarcasm or if you have a profound case of brain worms.
I just got a used 3060 for $200 and I'm super happy with it. I'm coming from a gtx 970 though. This is the first time I've been able to playing anything @1440p 60fps.
I'm totally OK with upgrading my hardware, but both Nvidia and AMD really want me to keep using my 3080.
Full power consumerism, you show them who is boss with your 3080 struggles of using it while the 40 series is out.
not much reason to upgrade if you have a 3080
Who cares about the 4000 series? Probably the worst GPU generation of all time. I'm gonna be rocking my 3080 until the wheels fall off.@@Loudlevin
why d hell would you upgrade from 3080 ? your fine for 2 more years
@@MaYeRsDz94 There are games where it can't hit 4K 60fps at high settings (more because of poor optimization, but still), and it's a fairly hot and loud card. But yeah, no way I'm not dropping ~$750 for an incremental improvement.
As someone who lives outside of the US all the way in Serbia, where these prices are only even more outrageous and the average salary is just 400 euros A MONTH, it has always been hard to get a good deal here.
In my 25 years of life I've only bought used graphics cards and I don't even plan on paying the outrageously exorbent MSRP prices for a new one, because here they are almost +50% higher. But the saddest thing is that even used GPUs are incredibly expensive.
Nvidia and AMD have become so greedy and it's only because people are so braindead and are willingly throwing their money at them. It will never stop because people are okay with it.
Repeat after me:
I don't need to be on the bleeding edge.
I don't need to run my games at ultra settings with rtx all the time.
I don't need more than 120fps in my competitive games.
I don't need 4k gaming.
Repeat this every morning and stay away from temptation, my brothers.
This is why I'm still running my GTX970. Most of the good games released nowadays are indie and will run fine on an older computer.
I still run a GTX 980, next GPU is going to be AMD, i've seen enough from Nvdia's marketing strategy.
I still use my 980ti classified and i think i will use it a while longer...
So I'm not the only one rocking an old GTX980. Lol
I was waiting so long for prices to drop but I forgot that I wanted a new card.😂
970 and 980's still run triple A titles... lol... The 4k with RTX scam!!!
@@TTOOS They do but only in 1080p, in some cases even with all graphic options to the max, these cards still get driver updates.
I think the moment Nvidia abandoned their core audience marks the beginning of this. It wasn’t the only reason it happened but it started the ball rolling.
This catering to miners and AI, and abandoning PC enthusiasts, also coincided with huge price hikes, soft launches, scalping, and an unwillingness to do anything to stop the scalping.
It doesn’t help that since then the quality control of these products have been put under extreme scrutiny because of how outrageous the price hikes have become. When your top of line GPU goes from being advertised as $800 MSRP, to buying from a scalper on eBay for $2000+ , every small problem gets magnified because it’s such a huge purchase for what it is.
This also coincides with a period in time where game makers got super greedy and started churning out crap games that were obvious money grabs.
The apathy started there, the apathy reached its peak when people realized they don’t want to do this 💩 any more. We have different hobbies now. We don’t need new graphics cards to play the few, sparsely released games that are actually worth our time.
They cooked the golden goose, and now dinner is over.
Yet nvidia is doing so well
About the greedy games i seen some games that you has to rebuy it and its dlcs every single update, modern games suck
Nvidia for sure no longer prioritizes GPUs. But that's smart business. There is so much more money to be had in the computing / AI segment than in gaming. It makes perfect sense to do this. I would not be surprised if in 5-10 years, Nvidia splits off their GPU branch into a separate company.
@@dvdv7777 that's definitely not true, GPUs are utilized in the space of high performance computing and A.I.
As a matter of fact, it's the reason why Nvidia's stock shot up
No, what marked the beginning was when people bought from the Scalpers. When they showed NVidia and AMD that they were happy to buy at ridiculous prices. What happened next was inevitable.
I don't think it's just the cost of the new GPUs, it's that the 20 series, the 30 series, and the 5000/6000 series are performing well at or above people's needs, and gaming has kind of peaked until it can make a more perceivable effect from the new GPUs.
If you look before the pandemic from around 2015-2020, the games that were top performing during the 10 series era now were being eclipsed by new gaming capabilities. 2015-2020 had a huge upgrade of monitor resolution, refresh and framerate capability for much cheaper prices on the monitors, but the games and GPUs couldn't keep up with producing performance against those advances to fully utilize it, so there weren't many games that even could utilize those resolutions. Because there wasn't a reason to upgrade because there weren't many products that demanded an upgrade.
When the 20 series dropped, the 20 series was very lackluster in reception, it didn't constitute much of a performance increase to mandate an upgrade, especially at its price compared to the still performing 10 series, the 10 series and older GPUs that people already had were fulfilling their needs, as well as there not being a large amount of games that stretched beyond the window of performance that a 10 series provided.
Fast forward to the 30 series. its 2020, everyone is at home, everyone is working from their computer. people have much more time to utilize their computers for entertainment.
EVERYONE bought a computer then.
The people that were already gamers were being aged out of their 10 series performance with new resolutions and more demanding games, they wanted a 30 series because they had already chosen to wait and bypass the 20 series. The people at home in front of their computer all day want the best possible machine, the computer became more like a car, and people just wanted the nicest one. Supply chain delays, shortages, and high demand rose the costs of the cards, BUT, PEOPLE GOT ONE THEY NEEDED. the 20 series (especially for power consumption and laptop use) sold rampantly, the 5000/6000 series equivalents to the 20/30s series also caught up to those price spikes as well.
Everyone that needed an upgrade, got one. there were a lot of people with underperforming machines that mandated an upgrade to simply just something newer. There hasn't been any (WELL MADE) game that's been so massively demanding and so massively consumed that game developers have required that they develop more games for a consumer that has those GPU capabilities. This is even more true when you take into account that consoles are still very much a large consumer market for games. Game developers will naturally effect the industry with the constraints in which the hardware their consumer base has. There were man faux pa game launches that tried to bridge the gap between old gen and next gen consoles, while still having this behemoth of a hardware upgrade accessible to them. These were disasters (Cyberpunk 2077 on Old Gen consoles comes to mind) .
The gaming and generic use case of GPUs has not caught up to the current level of hardware by any means, not when people are running all their GPUs they bought in 2020+ and still able to reliably get 1440p at 144hz in most mid-low tier cards/cpus, OR they have a steam deck, nintendo switch, xbox, or ps5. If there's games that are so ground breaking, or the pure volume of higher res games mandates a gpu upgrade, or, their hardware isn't performing as well as it did 5+ years ago, then people will buy a new one. They just don't need to right now, so the people that are around in the industry just portray the same sentiment in different ways
To the regular consumer a rating from Gamer Nexus stating "This card is meh", equates to "this isn't going to benefit you to buy it".
I bet if there were more games out there that just couldn't run without the newest gpu, because the level of computing that the game is doing is providing such a stark difference of experience, then people would buy a new gpu and be exited about ir.
What game at a reasonable resolution (medium+) and a playable frame rate(60frames+ because consoles/tvs) cant be supported by a 20series era card or newer?
Once those consumers from 2020 are mandated an upgrade for any reason (age, failure, higher mandate of gpu from the games they play that their current gpu cannot handle, etc), the interest in gpus will go up. right now, there isn't any interest because people don't need them. What they have now is working. Take that into account with how much more expensive the cards are now as to when the boom happened, and people are even less likely to be excited.
The reasons I am not upgrading my graphics card:
- Performance per/$ is not changing that much.
- Graphics cards in general are to expensive if you want something reasonable.
- I am able to play my old games with my old card and feel like now is not the right time to upgrade. (I might play newer games at some point if I would upgrade, but for now I just dont even bother looking at newer games)
There's nothing an rx 590 can't run near 60 fps.
Starfield looked like the game to change that, but it turned out to be bad cpu utilization and poor ram optimization.
it's really sad how buying a gpu cost so much money that it becomes an investement and because of it people would rather skip multiples generations, the cost of playing video games keeps increasing... i sometimes hate how amd and nvidia get to have a monopole around gpu's and screw over the consumers who just was here to play video game at first but instead spent thousand of dollars just on GPU's...
@@MikJames-d1g 1080ti is also a monster more so if you get a good overclocker high/ultra 1440p 60+fps in everything i've tried but starfield
I have 6600 XT, and it does everything I need. Sometimes PC players focus too much on optimizating the experience rather than just playing the damn game.
Bingo!
Half the time we are having to optimize the game that is still broken 😒
I got a modest 2080 Super and it's playing PalWorld just fine. Can play Helldivers 2, Enshrouded, Last Epoch, just about any modern game.
Exactly. The majority of players will not notice if raytracing or that the background looks "better" or not playing in a FPS game because they are too busy just playing the damn game. Reviewers are partly to blame and also the mind hive in forums where people will convince others their older card is inferior. The same goes for other computer components, motherboards, CPUs, and RAM has to be the "best" or you are "stupid" for not upgrading every year. It's peer pressure and just moronic.
@@davidlong1786 or the constant back and forth bitching of the 2 dominant GPU companies that both have been great but have problematic issues that one is better then the other and then gatekeeping about it when theres no good sportsmanship about it
Dude I've been watching you for a while and recently I've seen you really kick your production value in high gear. By a lot. Don't stop grinding man, it's very noticeable and it's paying off. Much love.
Agreed same here, been watching Vex for awhile now, his production quality has really gotten better and looking top notch.
I'm not paying over a thousand for a GPU, *any* GPU. They sell GPU's as if they're life saving medications and people have no choice but to buy them when they're nothing more then an accessory for a very niche hobby.
I have bought a few high-end premium cards over the years, like the BFG GeForce 6800 Ultra and GTX 8800 Ultra, but when I bought them I never paid more than $500. But now that high-end is $1000+, I'm out. I dread the day I have to upgrade my current card, a 1080.
Another issue is the psychical size of the cards and PSU needed, it's crazy.
Right? My rule of thumb is, if the price gets to be where I should be driving that cash around and going beep beep. I'm out.
When iPhone crossed the 1000$ barrier and people still bought it every year ,the tech market changed for everyone , and every device was comfortable making themselves 1000$ from other phones and now the GPU market iPhone really set the precedent.
It'll be really hard to recover because most high end GPU buyers probably already buy yearly iPhones and buying a 4 yr GPU for 1000 doesn't seem that bad .so the market mentality is already messed up.
@@DarthRambo007 That's not most people. That's a few people here and there with more money than sense. What keeps a lot of these mega corps afloat these days is investment money. And that money is running out at a rapid pace.
I bought the gtx 1070 for 550 dollars back in 2016. the 4070S is now 829 dollars in Canada… It’s insane. Even adjusting to inflation the card should only cost 679.
1070 was $379 USD at launch. $550? Possibly Australian I'm guessing. I don't remember a shortage then.
I got the 1070ti for the same, maybe even less I think. It's ridiculous that the 4070 costs twice much, but can't do twice the performance.
@@Steven-hq3go Yup those prices are in Canadian dollars
I bought a 1070 back in the day and it was great. It changed gaming for me. Then I upgraded to a 3070ti, and it was 'meh' - because 95% of the the games I would actually need a 3070 to run are badly optimized and boring. The only exception that comes to mind is Baldur's Gate 3.
There's great looking games that run fine on a 1070. Look at RDR 2 for example. The difference isn't really that big from any game I own that requires a 3070. It feels like the advances in GPUs lately haven't benefited gamers, they've just made it easier for developers to release half-assed games. Either rushed titles that never get polished or lazy console ports. So, yes... I agree, the latest GPUs are both overpriced and boring (especially in conjunction with AAA games being overpriced and boring).
What makes it fun for me to be a gamer these days is indie games and older classics - which usually don't need expensive new GPUs.
Yeah, but there was actually a reason to buy the 1070 back then, it was always the best value until the 1070 ti/1080 ti.
What's the point of getting a 4070S when you can just get a 4060 with more Vram and get 80-90% of the performance?
And if you end up lowering some graphics settings, these days you don't even notice the image quality drop.
I think this market with more high end tiers is actually a good thing. Because the 4080's/4090's are so expensive, they can use that money to subsidize the mid range cards more.
Why not take more of rich people's money if it makes things cheaper for us? And yes, gpus are still quite inexpensive relative to inflation.
I have a 7900xt. I got it open box from microcenter with free starfield for $675. I was completely ready to pass on this generation, but that made sense to me.
Bro you got a steal aint gonna lie.For that price thats just amazing Good for you
Awesome deal! But saying it came with a free copy of Starfield is like saying it came with a free rotten banana. You could eat the banana, but who would want to?
Nice buy, i bought 7900xt second hands that was only 2 weeks used for $670 tax included.
That aint bad deal to be honest. In my country the cheapest 7900xt costs 860€ and good partner models are 950€. Cheapest open box ive seen was 820€
I really hate this overpriced gpu bullshit.
Essentially -$45 from the current 7900 XT best deals sold new at Microcenter in exchange for probably not having a warranty... Not a bad deal, but if I'm spending $700+ (when factoring in sales tax), I'm going to want that warranty.
4000 series was literally 3000 series rebadge with software upgrades.
I built a PC 3 years ago at the height of shortage. I got a used (possibly former mining) 2070 Super for over $400. It served me well and just upgraded to 10GB 3080 for $500. I literally used my 2070 Super to upgrade my kid's PC from 6GB 1060. All used and hand-me-downs. That's how excited I am about paying a premium for no performance increace. True story.
The biggest reason why we are having such mediocre everything is because of CEOs and CFOs get them out of the way and their bonuses out of the way our lives will be better
no it has to do with diminishing returns, moore law being dead, california's climate change laws that prevent you from making hardware that uses too much energy which is what the 3060 6gb and dlss and frame gen and fsr is about and inflation being through the roof to the point that the dollar has lost over 90% of its value since the fed was established.
Dont be mad, history already proven why most people that born with golden or even diamond spoon got their descendant wreck in the head. While its not a fast effect. It will turn into cycle cause damn these people unhinged ticking time bomb.
I look to be about 10 years your senior, and I'll tell you, you're not wrong.
The market was a much, much different place from the introduction of 3D accelerators to maybe the early 2010s. Rapid node shrinks and cheaper/less complex technology allowed for insane gains year after year, and prices didn't shift much in that timeframe. It was one hell of a time to be a kid and into PCs, let me tell you. Probably the best time, tbh.
Now it's like... cool this card is 5% faster than the one its replacing, and it's $100 more... yay.
not sure where you getting these figures from. the 4080 is 50% faster than the 3080. and its double the price...im not arguing that GPUs are super overpriced. they are. but the performance improvements are definitely there its just that the contemporary performance improvements arent as sexy as they have been in the past. they are mostly just tied in with being able to play at higher resolutions. 4k gaming is decent on a 3080 but horrible on a 2080 and great on a 4080...once most people are caught up to 4k i think we will start to get more fun improvements again. but if you go from 1080p to 4k (especially if you have a big screen and/or are pretty close to it) its actually a pretty insane jump in quality of graphics so the performance improvements are definitely there.
@@vivsavagex how about the mess that is Nvidia's midrange? Didn't they release a 4060 or something recently that was slower in some cases than the card it superceded?
I'm sure there's a bunch of similar shit with Radeon, but idk
Don't keep track of it much anymore, don't really care
yes you have a bit of a point on that specific card. not to my knowledge is that in any other card comparison but it could be! but yeah that 4060 was embarrassing@@Dilo22
I used to feel like that but VR has made me excited for better GPUs. Resolution and frame rate improvements are very noticeable in VR. Extreme graphics quality really adds to the sense of immersion and high quality physics are extremely satisfying. AI and ray tracing are slowly starting to get good too, in the next couple of gens they'll really start to become game changing.
@@Dilo22ah, the infamous 4060ti. How they went from the 3060ti ( one of the best if not the best Nvidia price/perf. card of last gen ) to this is beyond me. For me, the 4060ti is a pile of garbage, but then, I'd insult the garbage.
Yeah, the only generation in somewhat recent memory I saw as exciting was the 10XX series.
Ha, that's how I feel as it was the last gen I bought a gpu.
@@masterlee1988 same, I'm still on 1060. But I don't do a ton of gaming and still on 1080p so it's been decent enough. Now with Nvidia adding 8 encode/decode video streams to the card through drivers it's probably going to be good for what I do for even longer, lol. Though I would like AV1 so the recent stuff does have some appeal.
Not much else to worry about with a water cooled 4090.
Also, that view count theory is incorrect. The YT platform is overly saturated these days. All of those views are spread out over 1,000 fold more channels covering the same exact topic. I’m not going to watch different channels say the same thing about a the same graphics card.
Yeah the person blowing 2k on a GPU probably doesn't particularly care about anything but the absolute best.
I have the best 360aio water-cooled 4090 you can buy before going custom, and I want something better. *shrug* Yes it's a beast, but we're not done at 4k. VR needs more. AI needs more. The industry needs people buying GPU's to help move things along.
@bro6842I think mine's going for $2500 now, but I got it on launch day for $2k. No regrets. Yes, I'm an adult making adult money so a GPU is cheap compared to lots of other things. Not bragging, because I was broke before as well, but there is definitely a market for top-tier stuff, even if it's small. It's a beast for VR, AI and rendering too, not just gaming.
Me chilling with the legendary gt740m 😎
As someone who regularly run the 60s (x600 and xx60 series cards) along with my friends;
I can tell you that everyone felt the price-to-performance drop out. Usually people would go for the 60s because, "oh well, it's cheap and it's good enough." Nowadays the 60s are like "yeah it's not even cheap anymore." Most of us rather go last gen used and we'd get mid tier for roughly the same price.
Out here 4060's AIB prices is the same as a used 3070Ti...
I feel this. I was a Nvidia user till my last "upgrade" a couple of years back and the xx60 SKU was always the sweet spot for gaming. I decided to go full Linux and went with an AMD card cause drivers. However just purchased a 3060 used and so far it's been good, but I wouldn't even think of buying one of the current gen cards at shelf price.
And the 4060 ain't worth it unless you want dlss and ray tracing when the 1080ti can perform the same for cheaper
Right there with you, Vex. I'm normally a tech enthusiast and I love PC gaming, but I've been so disillusioned by the obscene, outrageous prices of graphics cards over the last three years. It's all but killed my enthusiasm for the hobby. We've jumped the shark when the price of one component costs more than the leading console. It's time to find a new hobby.
I agree, but remember that along with the high price comes killer performance.
I remember forking over a small fortune for a GTX 1080 Ti, the top card at the time. I also remember the anticipation when I installed it and got the driver set up--woohoo!
Oh yeah, one more thing: I remember the 'meh' feeling over its performance. At least I could say it was noticeably better than my previous 1070!
Today, they're even more expensive but they DO have the performance to back it up. At least you know when you fork over a GRAND just for the privilege of wasting your time gaming, the performance will be as impressive as the price is annoying. Keep that in mind.
@@devilsoffspring5519 Absolutely not. The RTX 4090 is 25% faster than the 4080, and it's $800 more expensive. I myself also owned a GTX 1080 Ti (and the 980 Ti before it), so it's not like I'm new to the PC gaming hobby. If prices were at historical norms today, we would have an RTX 4080 Ti that was just a few percent slower than the RTX 4090 and costs $700-800 when accounting for inflation. You are out of your mind to suggest that the price increases are worth it today.
@@selohcin I didn't say they were 'worth it' though. If you want a top tier graphics card, the price is grossly out of proportion to the performance. It has been that way since I was a kid in the early to mid-1980s and first becoming aware of this stuff.
If you want a new Ferrari it will cost a lot more than a used Ford.
If you want to buy an F-35 fighter jet it will cost more money than a P-51 Mustang from the 1940s. The F-35 is 3 times faster, but costs 100 times more money than a P-51. It's a "flagship graphics card" of fighter jets.
You people think you "deserve" a 4090 Ti for 200 bucks. It has been that way for 40 years.
@@devilsoffspring5519 You DID say it was worth it when you wrote "Today, they're even more expensive but they DO have the performance to back it up." Stop equivocating.
@@selohcin If you want the top of the line card it will be disproportionately expensive for the performance increase. It's the way it's always been, that's what I meant.
35 year old "tech head" here (1989). Been building computers since socket 775 in 2004 and man o man, motherboards cpus and GPU's were SO EXCITING back then. I feel very meh now, I have a 5800x3d and a 3080ti and I have no "compassion" for any new releases.
I've been on an RX580 since I built my PC in 2020. GPU's are so ridiculous that I managed to upgrade to a 5950X, 64 gigs of RAM, and still spent less than a decent GPU. The only hope the low end has is for integrated graphics to get better, which they seem to be. Let's hope that trend continues.
Still rocking my GTX 1650 from Dec 2019. It's starting to show signs of aging (sadly). People have been telling me that their gpus from 20 series and up have been exploding, yet mines just started decaying after almost 5 years of owning it. I noticed that people stopped worrying about GPU's when scalpers started setting up bots to buy out the stock of every 30 series card for months after release, then reselling them for 300-500 dollars above MSRP. I believe people truly have gotten tired of nonsense.
whats more messed up then the scalpers is the fact that nvidia was just like "oh theyll pay that?! thats the MSRP now" i know cards are expensive to R&D and produce but we rarely see such a blatant just pulling numbers out of thin air with no tie to actual cost than with GPUs@@DeepDownInTheOcean
@@vivsavagex Exactly. Nvidia abused C19 and scalpers to increase their prices. I remember seeing RTX 3060s and 2060s sitting at 600-700 dollars for months after release.
I have given up. I repasted my over 4 year old rx5700 which is kinda broken (only stable if I lower boost clock by 5% and windows uninstalls the drivers regularly) and will use it for the next 3 years to come.
Oof, that sucks and I get it, because of my budget I gotta constantly look at benchmark videos for the best possible value gpu because of how crazy prices fluctuate in the market, there's barely anything good out there
@@inawesome4162 But I kinda like my pc. I learned a lot due to the limitations and problems it brought. I wish you best luck and low graphic card prices.
The recent price cuts bringing the 7700XT down to $330 ish actually make it a reasonable card. It should never have launched so close to the 7800XT.
Do you have your igpu forced in bios by any chance? I once forgot to disable it so windows kept updating drivers for igpu and uninstalling the dgpu one.
@@inawesome4162 sure there's nothing good, but if you have to upgrade there's nothing you can do than choose something. i also have an rx 5700 and it's not good for new games that come out. Lords of the Fallen 2 can barely get 60 fps on medium settings and when the fps drop kicks in it goes to the 30's. the fights in that game are terrible when the fps drops to the 30's. same goes for other newer games. most likely i'll upgrade to rx 7700xt. i would get the rx 7800xt, but here in EU it don't cost $500 but $600(out of budget). at $500 range, you get the rx 7700xt.
im 30 years old, they ran out of tricks to impress me, I'll die with my 1080 ti
based.
I'll get me a 3070 and probably die with it, this 1660 super i just got is great but it lacks the grunt to do some wild shit with old modded games.
Just wish there was a 1670\80\90 cause i'm not interested in dlss or ray tracing at all, since the old stuff i play will never support any of that.
It's because the companies have been for almost a decade trying to convince gamers that photorealistic graphics=good game. It's not. So now you have got AAA companies focusing too much on making the game look photorealistic but at the cost of gameplay, story/narrative and art style. We now have too many games that look photorealistic. And now they all start to feel the same. There is no uniqueness. THere is no art style. It just feels like playing different games set in the same universe.
The element of fiction is gone and people lose interest when you bring too much realism into escapism. To the point that games almost look like real life and it starts to feel more like a chore than fun.
The last new in box GPU I purchased was a GTX 1070 at Microcenter around launch. All open box and used GPUs for myself and the kids ever since. There are thousands of PC games out there and lots of fun to be had no matter what level of PC you have.
yeah i feel like the 10 series gpu is when things changed and gpu life got really long.
I'm still rocking with the 1060 lol
True... I'm catching myself playing more low graphics Indi titles on my high end cards than actual graphics wonders. However, at least the new cards save a ton of electricity at low usage percentage.
it's not true that you need the most recently released card to play modern games.
just turn shadows etc. down a notch or two and a five year old card does just fine.
after all, there is an incentive for game devs to have their product compatible with as many machines as possible.
I think a lot of people are beginning to understand the dread we've been feeling for awhile now. Neither AMD or Nvidia give a hoot about gaming any more. It's all this AI nonsense and that would be fine in any other market but this one where the barrier to entry is so insane because of legacy support that pretty much no one can even enter the market. When even Intel can't break into this market, there's no possibility for some underdog coming in and upsetting the big dogs that are getting lazy.
It's not just that the situation sucks, it's that it looks very likely that it's never going to get better barring the AI mania being a bubble that pops and pops in a very ugly way as well.
It sucks that unlike the cryptocurrency craze, which evaporated when dedicated hardware took over, the demand for "AI" is dragging the companies into creating new kinds of hardware that caters to it.
It's like they don't want to miss out on the pivot this time, even if it means leaving their previous audience behind.
@@dakat5131 In contrast to cryptocurrency you can do many useful things with AI (not saying, that people do useful things with AI :D ). But yeah, AI is the price driver. And as pro cards get more and more expensive, so do the gamer cards. AMD and NVIDIA are producing as much as possible pro Cards and fill the rest of their production contingent on gaming cards. Cards like the 4090 probably only exist and sell "that cheap", because of producing many not optimal A6000 dies. That's why NVLink had to go from these cards, as already many small companies or people use gaming cards for AI or HPC. RDNA3 and Ada Lovelace are really great and a huge step forwards technologically and energy efficency wise, but expensive. Not buying these cards as a gamer won't really hurt Nvidia or AMD in the short term. We just have to adapt somehow.
I think it's good, it'll force people to look at handhelds like the deck, which are epic. It's essentially a console that can play PC games. Increased deck adoption would push devs to build games that can play on it.
People are getting poor and games are getting worst
that is true, the cost of living is insane ! Just to cover the basics where i live you need to be making at least 20$ an hour if not youre gonna be forced to go at a food bank and go beg the government for money that they stole from you so you can have a small % back and remain poor.
It's unfortunate when I learned that throwing money and tech in the hopes of achieving consistent frame rate is actually dependent on the developer and how they have or haven't optimized their game.
I was truly excited when I purchased my first 20Mb Seagate HDD. I was thrilled when we upgraded from the green text monitor to VGA monitors and then to my first 14" color monitor. My face melted when I played Quake for the first time. I've not felt like that for decades now..
I started paying attention to GPU around GeForce series era starting 1999. Don't even remember the term "GPU" before that. I used NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 2GB (still in working condition) from 2013 to 2018. Then I upgraded to ASUS GeForce GTX 1080 TI 11GB. Very very happy with it and have no intentions of upgrading for the next 10 years. I love my games but it doesn't need to run at "Ultra". While I appreciate the advancement in technology and other avenues of research high powered GPUs have opened up, I don't find myself being very excited about it.
Had the same card. Its a monster. If only developers knew how to make games correctly these days.
ok old man
@@tiskar9430 hey! 45 is the new 30!
Same with me, I'm still using my GTX1080 FE with a 3570K and have zero intentions on updating them any time soon.
Quake memories!
As someone who fell out of gaming in spring of 2020 and now wants to get back in. It feels like a bad time due to the current refresh cycle. I have money now so I want to build a high end system. But I don’t want to pay high end pricing during the middle of the cycles:
7800X3D came out 9 months ago, AM5 platform still using 1st gen motherboards which I’ve always avoided, 7900XTX is 13 months old, and the RTX 4090 is 15 months old and still going above MSRP considerably.
At this point I might just build a low end PC and sell it once new high end stuff is out.
It’s just annoying unless you plan out your upgrades in advance or you don’t care about wasting money.
with prices right now just buy a console. you are probably a year or two out before any major change could even happen with the next gpus.
Get used parts and ur going to be fine that fomo is messing with ur mind.
@@christopherfortineux6937
But console players do not have access to all
of the mods available to PC users…
I play Skyrim and PC mods to Console mods
doesn’t even begin to compare or I would go
that route until something breaks in the gpu
World…
It's actually not a bad time. Prices are dropping on GPUs, and all other PC components are relatively inexpensive for the price. SSD prices have come up somewhat after being extremely low for the last few months of last year, but there are still lots of good prices for SSDs as well.
When I bought 1080ti on release I was amazed, because it was really powerful and I could turn on everything in latest games. Now I need 4090 for 3x price and I will get less than 50 fps in cp2077 with overdrive rt @ 1440p. What's even the point? I'd rather get middle gpu if I'm gonna turn down settings anyway.
Yeah it's like the 500g coffe bag - now 450g and more expensive thanks to shrinkflation. Maybe boycott the 450g scam
The only way to improve graphics these days is through things like ray tracing that are just super demanding. That's why games from 5+ years ago often look just as good as anything released today. I think we've just hit a plateau, where the best we can do is just moderately increase resolutions, textures, and triangle count. Until we can move on from silicon, I think the gains are going to continue to diminish.
I had the same feeling when I got my 3090. I REALLY didn't feel it was worth its cost. I had to change my GPU though. Was on a 1070TI and had just built a new computer. That card was the only one I could get my hands on after 8 months of trying. So, I'm not going to change to a 4000 series and I don't think I will be buying a 5000 series card either. Not if the pricing is what it is now.
I'm still rocking my 1080ti and do not want to change it at all. I've sometimes the surge to, but then I go lookup at the price and forget that idea really fast.
1080ti was THE shit. Amazing card. I settled for regular 1080 because the value was insane. But a 1080ti now is still a damn good card. You can still play a bunch of good games on that thing. And yeah. Its cost back then was a fraction of the cost of the current high end lineup.
It was going like this: GeForce 2 mx 200, fx5200 128bit, 6600GT DDR3, 7600GT, 275GTX, RX580 and then i3-13100 iGPU. Why? Every upgrade felt like 2-3x or more increase in speed for the same more or less hours worked. Then prices exploded. What the hell happened with i3-13100? Nothing, I stopped gaming, there are better things to do in life.
Good value? You’re forgetting one thing though: The width of the bus on the so called good value cards has been cut down by NVIDIA , which makes the cards a downgrade from previous cards depending on the use case of course. Read up how the developers of Yuzu have destroyed the RTX4060 with its measly 128bits of memory bus. You need to pay more now for the same performance and that’s just a fact.
What are you talking about. Buying videocard? People shoplift groceries this days.
Well the LTT video on the Super cards got low view numbers because it was super late and also quite bad (which isn't new for their videos, what is new is that people know about it ever since GN exposed them). But the big problem right now: The world is in some rough economic times, and in times like that "luxury" products like gaming hardware is not one of most people's priority.
super late. lmao
Edit: I see the pun you did there.
The 980 TI was the best. Still had it till last october and i played Elden Ring and The Witcher 3 Full HD max settings without any problem. It lasted me like nine years.
1080 Ti for me absolute Monster still holding strong. But showing its age slowly.
1070 going strong!
@@redbunnyclassicSame for me, I will refuse to replace my gtx 1070 until it dies
With the new RTX version you CAN`T run Witcher 3 with sufficient FPS, no go mate.
I have a 3080, it works well, but 320watts of power is a lot. I really hope we start seeing strives towards more power efficiency.
I am still holding onto 1080ti for many years. Though I'm not gonna worry about gaming GPU. I'm more interesting in ai workstation cards. Though I will see how that goes.
gpus are getting more expensive and faster while game graphics are getting worse, but still require more gpu power.... makes no sense
Bad coders..., unable or unwilling to streamline their code so it uses less hardware. In other areas a "bad" looking game can have allot more CPU stuff going on in the background that earlier games did not. For example Doom 1 takes allot less resources than say Brutal Doom mod.