@MattSmith-il4tc Beethoven's 4th piano concerto 1st mov: hope, wonder, longing for a better future, yet apprehension and anxiety 2nd mov: absolute dispare, a broken human's agonizing thoughts, ends with acceptance of death 3rd mov: rebirth, renowned sense of purpose, ecstasy, joy This concerto is a rollercoaster of emotions, all defined perfectly in musical form.
Glad you agree. I see a surprising amount of Brahms hate from time to time, so I'm glad some people love his works as much as me. When I hear his concertos I'm always, at that exact moment, thinking they are the greatest pieces ever.
@@ryanabshier Brahms is "one" of my favorite composers--His 2nd is a staple and has always been and the 1st is now my favorite but both seems to go back and forth- such is the glory of classical music
In my opinion, Mozart's concerto numder 20 is the best piano concerto ever composed because it manages to be such a compellingly, dramactic---or operatic-- work from the beginning to the end while never retreating from the simple, basic rules of what constitutes music. Moreover, It doesn't require a degree in music appreciation to realize this.
Great ranking, only thing I really heavily disagree with is Rachmaninoff's 3rd vs the 2nd. The 3rd is far more mature and representative of his idiom. I would've loved to see Medtner's piano concerti ranked here as well, seeing as how they easily rival the greats. Particularly the 3rd which is rich in inspiration and tenderness, although the 2nd is far more digestible for someone new to his music. For the next, you could also include Shostakovich, the much less appreciated 1st and 4th by Rachmaninoff, and possibly even Moszkowski, whose concerti certainly deserve more love (check out the 2nd in E major if you haven't already!).
I prefer Rachmaninoff’s piano concerto 4 over the popular second and third. Shorter, good orchestration, less bravura showman Piano fireworks. Plus it was written around the time Rachmaninoff was entering a new compositional phase; the 3rd Symphony, the Symphonic Dances, all favourites of mine.
@@calebhu6383You seem pretty skilled, please write me a full piano concerto by 20 years old😂 Chopins concerto is a masterpiece and theres a reason why theres a competition named after him where millions tune in and listen to his “bad concerto”
Brahms 2nd is probably my favorite piano concerto. Can’t agree more with your royalties list. I also totally understand your Schumann concerto ranking, but I always loved the vibe of this concerto. It looks like a stream of fresh air coming right from the rise of the romantic era with all of its beauty.
I really feel like a Bach concerto should have made the list -- either the F minor concerto or the 5th Brandenburg for its brilliant harpsichord cadenza to end the first movement.
I fully agree. But this guy didn't even include Prokofiev 2 or 3, thinks Rhapsody in Blue is better than his Concerto in F, puts Rach 3 in a lower tier, and Chopin in Silver. His is an opinion, and highly subjective, I would love to see the Bach D minor amongst the greats too.
Beethoven 5 above 4 is so triggering to me... but thank God Brahms 2 is in the royalty tier. Learning it right now, absolutely in love with it. Yet people voted Brahms out as the composer they can live without. 😂
No way Rach 2 is higher than Rach 3, sorry. The 3rd concerto is far more complex, nuanced, and powerful in my opinion. It gets a lot of notoriety for its difficulty but the musical content is really top-tier.
i agree, im not sure how you could put the second over the third unless you havent listened to it enough to understand and follow along (i think thats usually why people like the 2nd more, as its less complex and easier to follow)
In my opinion, the greatest piano concertos are by Medtner, mainly the 3rd one "Ballad", it's one of the most ingenious, lovely and clever pieces ever!
Absolutely. The "Ballade" concerto is an amazing piece. Medtner didn't believe in rhetoric even in concertos and this work is a masterpiece of musical logic as well as being built on first rate material. It's an exciting and deeply satisfying listen.
I love all of these mainstream repertoire concertos! But if people want to explore other repertoire I HIGHLY recommend checking out Hyperion's "Romantic Piano Concerto" series. It's a series of tons of albums - each featuring GREAT but rarely heard "hidden gems" from the Romantic era. There was a LOT of great music that just never reached mainstream repertoire status. I particularly recommend the 4 Scharwenka concertos and the 3 Medtner concertos.
Xaver Scharwenka's 1st is marvellous. From the same era there's also Siegfried Langgaard, whose 1st piano concerto (released on Danacord) foreshadows Rachmaninoff. Also well worth a listen are the piano concertos of Goetz, Rheinberger, Kiel, Sinding and Gernsheim. Late Romanticism in the style of Brahms, or in the case of Sinding, a hybrid between Brahms and Wagner - using the traditional sonata form but with Wagnerian composition techniques, basing his entire concerto on a single Leitmotif. Lots of earlier Romantic concerti worth a listen too: the 4 by Kalkbrenner, also released on Hyperion, and 2 by Dobrzyński for instance. Dobrzyński was a contemporary and fellow student of Chopin, both pupils of Josef Elsner and him and Kalkbrenner write in a style very similar to Chopin.
My three favorites (from 3 different eras): Beethoven 4 Tchaikovsky 1 Prok 3 I strongly disagree that Tchaikovsky 1 doesn't have the emotional power of some of the others. Last time I heard it live, I could hardly hold my tears, from start to finish. To me, it has everything. It's complex, lots of subtlety and nuance, amazing form/dramaturgy, lovely melodies, great orchestration, rhythms, harmonies, etc... Each movement offers something different, yet it comes together as a whole. If I had to choose one, I think it would have to be Tchaikovsky.
I'd love to see this become a series. So many more that I'd love to hear you talk about. I'm partial to Prokofiev 3, and if you want to venture closer to the modern era, I'd advocate for Century Rolls by John Adams.
Great video Ryan and hard to argue with any of your choices. I might have put Tchaikovsky 1 higher despite its overexposure because it's so melodic. Also, I'm a huge fan of Saint-Saëns 2, especially the rollicking 3rd movement with the call-and-response figures between the orchestra playing quarter note chords and the piano responding with 16th runs. So much fun
Imo Mozart, Schumann and Ravel G are very underrated, Rachmaninov (a lot of notes but not much substance) is highly overrated. Beethoven 4 is at least as good as B.5 !
mozart all concertos are sublime; 17, 25 22 27 i would rank royal, 12 13 9 15 platinum 16 24 gold , 5 6 8 11 silver 26 ; beethoven 1 2 silver; Liszt both i rank gold ; Brahms wrote awkward as did schumann ; dvorak wrote one too along with incredible chamber music quintet platinum, quartets gold; brahms piano quartets royalty; beethoven ghost archduke trios royalty; st saens trios platinum; faure pquartets gold plat:m, rakhmaninov trios and tchaikovski plat; beethoven 4 royalty
That's the thing with Alkan. Even if you hate a lot of his stuff there's always one or two that are going to get stuck in your brain and not gonna let go. The whole of Op. 39 is amazing!
Here is my list of piano concertos, best. Bortkiewicz 3 (2 is great but after the second movement, it kinda gets boring) Moszkowski 2 Any Saint Saens concerto Von sauer 1/2 (tbh I like 2 a little better even All the Scharwenka concertos (just great) Medtner piano concerto 3 Poulenc concerto allegretto specifically Von Henselt concerto Rach 3 Hummel concerto 2 Mozart fortepiano concerto 15 Anton Rubenstein 4 Love the Ries concertos Henry Herz concertos Lyapunov 1 or 2 Scriabin concerto in f Arensky piano concerto Massanet piano concerto Busoni piano concerto And many many more
I agree a lot with this list for almost all the concertos, I would have maybe put rach 3 or maybe Grieg in royalty, but I'm not even sure myself, but I was very afraid that Brahms 2 would not go to royalty, when I saw it I was like YEEES!!! Thank you
S-Tier : Rachmaninoff’s 2nd and 3rd, Gershwin’s and Scriabin’s A-Tier : Beethoven 5th and 3rd, Liszt’ second, Brahms’ second, Grieg and Schumann’s B-Tier : Tchaikovsky’s first and second concerto, Shostakovich’s second, Ravel’s, Brahms’ first, Hummel’ second, as well as Prokofiev, Bartok, Saint-Saëns and Mozart’s concertos C-Tier : Chopin’s concertos and some from Mozart D-Tier :
Wonderful!! I'm in total agreement with your Royalty tier. Probably because it's the first piano concerto I saw performed live, I would move the Tchaikovsky up one level, but that's just quibbling. Also, what do you think of the Saint-Saens fifth, and the Mendelssohn No. 1? They'd both probably be on my list somewhere. Keep up the good work!
@@JoeNicolosi-l8i awesome, so glad you enjoyed the video! I always hope people can have a good time chatting about some awesome music. Mendelssohn 1 was one of the first prices off the list. I considered adding it. Honestly it's mostly a time issue, it's been quite a while since I've listened to it. Saint Saens concerti however have just never clicked with me. I find him a little too over-sentimental for my tastes. Not saying they are bad by any means, but they don't crack my top 20.
Great video! Only addition I would make would be Gershwin F. While not immediately catchy as rhapsody in blue is, his treatment of the themes is genius and I regard the development of the 1st movement B theme as one of the most beautiful musical moments of all time!
Well, I would have put Beethoven 4 at the top. That said, this ranking for works of this magnitude is really just for fun, because 100 people will rank them 100 different ways!
Exactly. Rankings are just for fun. I'm an old geezer who has heard a gazillion recordings of all of them, and lots more. There are so many great concertos that everyone will find their particular favorites among them. (BTW, if forced to choose, Beethoven PC 4 tops my list, too.)
@@chrisportislander2458 oh sweet. If we line up on those 2 there's a good chance you'll love Brahms as well. If you started listening right after your comment you should be wrapping up the final movement about now...lol
I would have ranked these very similar . I would have moved up one of the chopins one tier and dropped the gershwin one. I would have moved the 4th beethoven to royalty and dropped the 5th to platinum. the fifth is very triumphant and majestic and a very disciplined encouragement at times ( you can do it kind of thing). The fourth to me hits all the moods (mystery, trials, beauty of nature, spiritual, hope, regrets, love.,etc.... yeah) - just personal to me - it hits all the elements of life. I would have replaced mozart 20 with 21. I also like Mozart 17 and Mendelsohn 1 but they may have only made silver. I am just discovering Saint Saens in earnest (great stuff) . I am not into the super modern ones as much (eg. Shostakovich) Great list! Thanks . You are a younger man than me, I wonder if there would be any changes to list in another 20 years of life experiences?
For me, his solo piano works are superior, so I don't typically go to his concertos when I'm in the mood for Chopin. He wasn't as good of an orchestrator as other composers.
@@ryanabshier Based opinion! Being a pianist doesn't mean you have to be biased for piano music, I personally enjoy Beethoven's orchestral works way more than his piano sonatas or concertos, but that doesn't stop me from loving and wanting to play them!
@@ryanabshier It's not controversial at all. The Mendelssohn VC is rated as one of the big four violin concertos yet Mendelssohn PCs are mostly considered student concertos that are not so commonly performed by professionals.
Always interesting reading these lists, but of course they are so subjective, and understandably so. Music reaches us in its own way. I love all of these, have played a few, but as odd as it seems, my favorite Concerto is an unlikely one for most: the Schumann. Something about its construction, the flow and pace of it seized me as a little boy, and (many decades later) never let go. Love all the others as well, but Schumann is my guy.
I understand the argument against Chopin's concertos, that his orchestrations aren't the best and that the orchestra is basically just an accompaniement compared to the Rach concerto where there's way more interaction and the orchestra plays a much more important role. However, I believe the art of using the orchestra is a tool for composers, like for example, use of harmony or the capacity to write pure melodies which you can't deny Chopin was top-tier at. For me, the way the tools are used is of a lesser importance than the end-product, and the enjoyableness of the whole concerto. For me, and you might disagree, the intimacy of Chopin's writing gets me every time, the two themes of the first movement in the Em are pure bliss, and the orchestral introduction along with the coda and other parts (development, transition) add some turmoil to it which makes it exciting. On a side note I feel like the concertos much like virtually all of his works have a patriotic dimension, and knowing that can deepen our understanding of the concertos.
Yes indeed i understand people that play the orchestra part might be a bit bored. But both his concertos are still my favorite over every other that i know in this list. Yes even rach2. His 1st concerto is my favorite piece i ever listened too.
Good list but I think there are a few essentials that really HAVE to be on such a list: Prok 2 and Prok 3. Also I'd personally switch Rach 2 and 3, Beet 4 and 5 but Brahms can also stay on my list
Ravel piano concerto for the left hand is seriously underrated here; it should be considered gold or royalty; it's better and more innovative than the other Ravel piano concerto. Please listen to the recording made by Samson François in 1959.
My favorite piano concertos have to be Bortkiewicz no 1, Kosenko op. 23, Moskowski op. 59, and recently I've been listening to Scharwenka no. 3, all of whom I believe to be underappreciated composers. Alkan's solo piano concerto is also great
Very nice and competent video - even though my classification would be totally different. I would have Schumann as the ultimate romantic piano concerto in the royalty category, together with the two minor concertos by Mozart - the d minor concerto isn’t even in your list. But tastes differ, and your list, as well as your reasoning, are profound and beautiful.
@@henrykaspar3634 glad you enjoyed the video! So refreshing to hear a friendly, respoectful comment from someone who disagrees. I think Schumann peaked for me several years ago. I was very close to learning it but went with Grieg instead. But at the time I was so conflicted. Felt sad that the time and effort would go to one and ignore the other.
Great list! To me it would be: Royalty: Brahms 2, Beethoven 4. Platinum: Rach 3 (tempted for Royalty), Beethoven 5, Brahms 1, Rach 2, Grieg Gold: the rest that are not in silver. Silver: Gershwin Rhapsody, Ravel LH, Bartok 3. And I would also include high in the list Prokofiev 2 & 3, Liszt 1 & 2, Medtner 1 & 3, Moszkowski op.59, Mozart 21, Mendelssohn 1, Bartok 2, Bach Keyboard concertos... list goes on and on, too many great piano concertos to chose from (also from "unknown" composers. UA-cam algorithms can really take you for a ride on this one :)) PS. I also think that Chopin's orchestration works perfectly for the purpose of his concertos which is to highlight his "god-tier" piano writing/playing skills. Adding a lot of those traditional orchestral-piano dialogue sections would feel out of place in there, although I still prefer the more "balanced" approach.
Sorry for Mozart's n.21 (KV467) not having made to the list, that's the piece which made me loving classical music. We definitely actually need a Mozart concertos tier list, at this point - There's lot of them, and all are just so good they deserve a video about them.
Overall, a great list, but I'd have to concur with some of the other posters that Rach 2 is at least equaled by Rach 3 which, for me, is only topped by my personal favorite... Prokofiev 3!
Tchaik 1 is the first concerto I learned in full so it has a special position to me. However it's a weird mix to me, especially the first movement. The opening is just epic, definitely deserved to be in the highest tier, but the following parallel octave section sounds so excessive and not interesting unless you actually play this piece, and then it goes to the nice slow theme which is again god tier to me. I kind of hope the cadenza can be done differently tbh.
scriabin's piano concerto should make the list too. its such and underrated piano concerto and rea;;y great and emotional as well. people should at least give it a shot
Although I agree with your list, Liszt’s Piano Concerto No. 2 is one of my favourites. I’d probably put it in Gold or Platinum. It easily stands up against Schumann’s and Chopin’s concertos.😊
In my Opinion, this List is not complete without Reger's gigantic Concerto op.114! Especially for those who love Brahms, i'd recommend to listen to it. There is a Video with Score Reduction on UA-cam (Pianist: de Groote). Also i recommend to check out a Video "Reger Analysis - Cellular composition in his Piano Concerto F minor op. 114/III" on the Channel "O. T. Tjabben".
Please do a video exploring the lesser-known piano concertos. The works you fearured here are great, but there are some very obscure works out there needing more exposure! Beethoven, Mozart, Rachmaninoff, etc. all talked about too much.
Rach 3, Prok 2 and Brahms 2 are 100% Royalty. The rest I won't quibble about too much. Prok 3 should be there, probably Royalty although I'd accept Platinum.
Prokofiev 1 getting gold makes me forgive you for some of your past rankings. It's full of ideas, has a dynamic opening and finale, and the second movement is very moving. Maybe it's cause ive played it with my teacher, but still. I also wanna mention Mendelssohn's 1st and 2nd piano concertos, not the greatest and most popular concertos obviously, but they were some of the first I listened to when getting into classical, so they hold a special place for me
I would move the Mozart 23 and Tchaikovsky 1 to Platinum tier, for sure. Mozart 27 should be there as well. Chopin 1 should be gold. Brahms 1 and Rachmaninov 3 should both be in Royalty tier. A lot of other great concertos are missing from the list. The Liszt ones should be there, in silver tier though. Maybe Tchaikovsky 2 as well and the Mendelssohn ones too. Mozart 21 deserves a place in silver, for sure.
Rachmaninoff regarded the Grieg concerto as the greatest ever written. I don't in any way agree with that. But it is an interesting perspective coming from Rachmaninoff.
For me the top 10 (in no particular order) Bach in D minor BWV 1052 ua-cam.com/video/qXQ2yscJ4Mk/v-deo.html Bach in F minor BWV 1056 ua-cam.com/video/a0n99OopdpA/v-deo.htmlsi=yUEbj2q9P-NLiZJa Beethoven #4 in G ua-cam.com/video/R56ERxHtvkI/v-deo.htmlsi=3Rnb5khnoo5uOKQ2&t=33 Beethoven #5 in Eb (Emperor) ua-cam.com/video/V4pJxad_aI8/v-deo.htmlsi=pCZbxjV_IEKp7n2L&t=24 Mendelssohn #1 in G minor ua-cam.com/video/2GGx8TRWFVA/v-deo.htmlsi=8tWyb7pMuSlHdH7O&t=20 Mozart #9 in Eb (Jeunehomme) ua-cam.com/video/ozvWLv_lLXA/v-deo.html Mozart #20 in D minor ua-cam.com/video/yM8CFR01KwQ/v-deo.htmlsi=d7gp3AMVbX58fSwo&t=57 Mozart #21 in C ua-cam.com/video/tlemxI7QciA/v-deo.htmlsi=YJuah3bI27GPr2TG&t=37 Rachmaninoff #3 in D minor ua-cam.com/video/MOOfoW5_2iE/v-deo.htmlsi=m6yhBjKief-BzVU4&t=27 Saint-Saens #2 in G minor ua-cam.com/video/tVCvJZtzkqQ/v-deo.htmlsi=tZwqr4wSTEZJDCMZ
Let me ACCURATELY re-arrange these for you. Without destroying your grading system of S, P, G, S, let me add one more tier. This, to me, is the top tier above S. I call this the Z level, Z standing for ZENITH. This is the absolute pinnacle of music composition mastery as far as piano concertos go. In this level, we have ALL five of the Beethoven piano concertos. Nobody, in the history of music, comes even remotely close to B when it comes composing a piano concerto...N-O-B-O-D-Y! (not even herr Mozart) This is especially so regarding his counter-melody writing, stylistic depth of his orchestral writing, and, above all, quite pleasing melodic development and phrasing to be found in all of his piano concerti. In addition to B at this level, I include the Brahms' First PC because the first movement of said concerto is probably the single greatest piece of music that has ever been composed, bar none. It essentially contains compositional elements that evokes just about every human emotion. Check it out. For me, case closed. You can do what you want with the rest of them.
I also like Rach 2 better than Rach 3. Beethoven 4 is as good as it gets. The outer movements are wonderful, but the slow movement is amazing, even for Beethoven. I don't know anything else like it. I always find the last two movement of Brahms 2 to be somewhat of a let down after the drama and intensity of the first two.
I'd have included the 2 Shostakovich concerti - the trumpet-haunted Lento of the 1st is a real winner, but the 2nd is much more infectiously joyful. The Rachmaninov Paganin variations certainly hold a candle to much on your list, and for a Joker card I'd throw in Dohnanyi's wonderful Variations on a Nursery Rhyme. No Sant-Säens? Pop him in instead of Chopin - who is, incidentally my favourite composer (I'm currently immersed in the Scherzos and havev nothing but love for the guy), but whose concerti are both fairly forgettable.
Honestly, Beethoven's Fourth Piano Concerto should have its own tier-it's just on another level...🙏
as I said above to Carl, the way the tutti emerges, does strange things to me! Like the opening of his sixth symphony!
Agreed. The Fourth >> The Fifth. Both are fantastic, but the fourth is next level. The second movement is one of my favorite things ever.
@MattSmith-il4tc Beethoven's 4th piano concerto
1st mov: hope, wonder, longing for a better future, yet apprehension and anxiety
2nd mov: absolute dispare, a broken human's agonizing thoughts, ends with acceptance of death
3rd mov: rebirth, renowned sense of purpose, ecstasy, joy
This concerto is a rollercoaster of emotions, all defined perfectly in musical form.
I came here to say this, but I knew in my heart that it's already been said
Fully agree, B.4th at least as good as the 5th, if not better!
Beethoven 4th in G Major. Majestic.
the way the tutti emerges, does strange things to me! Like the opening of his sixth symphony!
Full agreement with placing Brahms 2 in the top tier. It's one of the greatest pieces of music ever written.
Both Brahms concertos are brilliant and are a favorite--so many that I change my mind at times!!
Glad you agree. I see a surprising amount of Brahms hate from time to time, so I'm glad some people love his works as much as me. When I hear his concertos I'm always, at that exact moment, thinking they are the greatest pieces ever.
@@ryanabshier Brahms is "one" of my favorite composers--His 2nd is a staple and has always been and the 1st is now my favorite but both seems to go back and forth- such is the glory of classical music
@@ryanabshier You tube erased my complete comment!?
Absolutely agree
Rach 2, rach 3, prokofiev 2, grieg, gershwin F, gershwin rhap, rach Rhapsody paganini, scriabin 1 are my favorites that come to mind
gershwin f so underrated
Gershwin F B theme in the first movement is so well orchestrated! One of my favourites.
I'll have to check Scriabin an Gershwin F. One tha's also among my favourites is Falla's Nights in the Gardens of Spain.
Prokofiev 3 is underrated imo
@@DanielStromlandGuitar yes it's great, def underrated, I personally prefer prok 2 tho
In my opinion, Mozart's concerto numder 20 is the best piano concerto ever composed because it manages to be such a compellingly, dramactic---or operatic-- work from the beginning to the end while never retreating from the simple, basic rules of what constitutes music. Moreover, It doesn't require a degree in music appreciation to realize this.
Hands down the best.
@@johnmccorkell8297 I think 22 and 24 are greater.
Chopin Em in silver is crazy to me ngl
same here...
He did the same with chopins B major nocturnes so yeah
I think it's because the orchestra part barely needs to be there
Great ranking, only thing I really heavily disagree with is Rachmaninoff's 3rd vs the 2nd. The 3rd is far more mature and representative of his idiom. I would've loved to see Medtner's piano concerti ranked here as well, seeing as how they easily rival the greats. Particularly the 3rd which is rich in inspiration and tenderness, although the 2nd is far more digestible for someone new to his music. For the next, you could also include Shostakovich, the much less appreciated 1st and 4th by Rachmaninoff, and possibly even Moszkowski, whose concerti certainly deserve more love (check out the 2nd in E major if you haven't already!).
I'm glad many people agree with your comment!
Moskowski concerto no2 isn't that good, it only has some good climaxes scattered around the concerto, but as an overall piece it just isn't "solid"
I prefer Rachmaninoff’s piano concerto 4 over the popular second and third. Shorter, good orchestration, less bravura showman Piano fireworks. Plus it was written around the time Rachmaninoff was entering a new compositional phase; the 3rd Symphony, the Symphonic Dances, all favourites of mine.
tchakowski second is also nice
@@peterectasy2957 Agree completly, much better than the first one
Chopin piano concertos seem more like a piano solo with obligato for orchestra.
That's what PIANO concerto means. Chopin wasn't a good orchestrator, but his Piano pieces were the greatest of all time.
@@Magzhan-o3s So why would you write a piece for piano + orchestra if you aren't a good writer for half of that?
@@Magzhan-o3swell, most of the pieces in this list tell you otherwise
@@calebhu6383 Why wouldn't he?
He tried. We miss 100% of shots we haven't taken/
@@calebhu6383You seem pretty skilled, please write me a full piano concerto by 20 years old😂 Chopins concerto is a masterpiece and theres a reason why theres a competition named after him where millions tune in and listen to his “bad concerto”
Brahms 2nd is probably my favorite piano concerto. Can’t agree more with your royalties list. I also totally understand your Schumann concerto ranking, but I always loved the vibe of this concerto. It looks like a stream of fresh air coming right from the rise of the romantic era with all of its beauty.
I really feel like a Bach concerto should have made the list -- either the F minor concerto or the 5th Brandenburg for its brilliant harpsichord cadenza to end the first movement.
I fully agree. But this guy didn't even include Prokofiev 2 or 3, thinks Rhapsody in Blue is better than his Concerto in F, puts Rach 3 in a lower tier, and Chopin in Silver. His is an opinion, and highly subjective,
I would love to see the Bach D minor amongst the greats too.
Bach never wrote a piano concerto. (A harpsichord is not a piano.)
@@noelleggett5368 Keyboard concerto
@@noelleggett5368 ua-cam.com/video/h7qtyCl7ysE/v-deo.htmlsi=GmXFFEYaNphqOcKI
@@TrevorduBuisson That would be another video then.
Beethoven 5 above 4 is so triggering to me... but thank God Brahms 2 is in the royalty tier. Learning it right now, absolutely in love with it. Yet people voted Brahms out as the composer they can live without. 😂
No way Rach 2 is higher than Rach 3, sorry. The 3rd concerto is far more complex, nuanced, and powerful in my opinion. It gets a lot of notoriety for its difficulty but the musical content is really top-tier.
Well, if you're talking about complexity, then Rach 4 is his most refined. People call it less passionate bc they don't understand it.
i agree, im not sure how you could put the second over the third unless you havent listened to it enough to understand and follow along (i think thats usually why people like the 2nd more, as its less complex and easier to follow)
Why does greatness have to be determined by 'complexity' or 'power'?
It's just more virtuoso with less coherent form. Mozart has greater concertos than Rach 3.
For you, maybe. Music is subjective.
In my opinion, the greatest piano concertos are by Medtner, mainly the 3rd one "Ballad", it's one of the most ingenious, lovely and clever pieces ever!
Agreed.
Absolutely. The "Ballade" concerto is an amazing piece. Medtner didn't believe in rhetoric even in concertos and this work is a masterpiece of musical logic as well as being built on first rate material. It's an exciting and deeply satisfying listen.
@@griselidis1 and I also like Skalkottas 1
Also Feinberg concertos
@@KaikhosruShapurjiMedtner Yeah, those are great!
I love all of these mainstream repertoire concertos! But if people want to explore other repertoire I HIGHLY recommend checking out Hyperion's "Romantic Piano Concerto" series. It's a series of tons of albums - each featuring GREAT but rarely heard "hidden gems" from the Romantic era. There was a LOT of great music that just never reached mainstream repertoire status.
I particularly recommend the 4 Scharwenka concertos and the 3 Medtner concertos.
Xaver Scharwenka's 1st is marvellous. From the same era there's also Siegfried Langgaard, whose 1st piano concerto (released on Danacord) foreshadows Rachmaninoff.
Also well worth a listen are the piano concertos of Goetz, Rheinberger, Kiel, Sinding and Gernsheim. Late Romanticism in the style of Brahms, or in the case of Sinding, a hybrid between Brahms and Wagner - using the traditional sonata form but with Wagnerian composition techniques, basing his entire concerto on a single Leitmotif.
Lots of earlier Romantic concerti worth a listen too: the 4 by Kalkbrenner, also released on Hyperion, and 2 by Dobrzyński for instance. Dobrzyński was a contemporary and fellow student of Chopin, both pupils of Josef Elsner and him and Kalkbrenner write in a style very similar to Chopin.
My three favorites (from 3 different eras):
Beethoven 4
Tchaikovsky 1
Prok 3
I strongly disagree that Tchaikovsky 1 doesn't have the emotional power of some of the others. Last time I heard it live, I could hardly hold my tears, from start to finish. To me, it has everything. It's complex, lots of subtlety and nuance, amazing form/dramaturgy, lovely melodies, great orchestration, rhythms, harmonies, etc... Each movement offers something different, yet it comes together as a whole. If I had to choose one, I think it would have to be Tchaikovsky.
tchaik 2 is also nice
I'd love to see this become a series. So many more that I'd love to hear you talk about. I'm partial to Prokofiev 3, and if you want to venture closer to the modern era, I'd advocate for Century Rolls by John Adams.
Great video Ryan and hard to argue with any of your choices. I might have put Tchaikovsky 1 higher despite its overexposure because it's so melodic. Also, I'm a huge fan of Saint-Saëns 2, especially the rollicking 3rd movement with the call-and-response figures between the orchestra playing quarter note chords and the piano responding with 16th runs. So much fun
Imo Mozart, Schumann and Ravel G are very underrated, Rachmaninov (a lot of notes but not much substance) is highly overrated. Beethoven 4 is at least as good as B.5 !
Brahms 2 is so fucking good
pity he did not write third one -)
Great idea for a video! Wonderful to hear your take on all these :)
It’s a very good list !!!
Thanks for checking it out!
mozart all concertos are sublime; 17, 25 22 27 i would rank royal, 12 13 9 15 platinum 16 24 gold , 5 6 8 11 silver 26 ; beethoven 1 2 silver; Liszt both i rank gold ; Brahms wrote awkward as did schumann ; dvorak wrote one too along with incredible chamber music quintet platinum, quartets gold; brahms piano quartets royalty; beethoven ghost archduke trios royalty; st saens trios platinum; faure pquartets gold plat:m, rakhmaninov trios and tchaikovski plat; beethoven 4 royalty
Alkan’s solo piano concerto has to be one of my current favorites. Also Scriabin’s concerto despite it not having much of his later style.
That's the thing with Alkan. Even if you hate a lot of his stuff there's always one or two that are going to get stuck in your brain and not gonna let go. The whole of Op. 39 is amazing!
alkan mentioned
Alkan Love ♥❤
I don't like everything Alkan does in his concerto, but there's a lot of passages in there that really touch my heart
My (incomplete) list:
S-Tier: Rachmaninoff 2, Rachmaninoff Rhapsody, Beethoven "Emperor"
A-Tier: Grieg, Saint-Saens 5, Prokofiev 2, Tchaikovsky 3
B-Tier: Gershwin F Major, Prokofiev 3, Bartok 3, Chopin Krakowiak (Op.14), Ravel G Major
C-Tier: Tchaikovsky 1 & 2, Chopin 1 & 2, Ravel LH, Rachmaninoff 3
D-Tier: Gershwin Rhapsody, Chopin Fantasia (Op. 13)
My favouries:Rach 2,Schumann,Grieg,Mozart 12 and 23, Beethoven 4 and 5
Here is my list of piano concertos, best.
Bortkiewicz 3 (2 is great but after the second movement, it kinda gets boring)
Moszkowski 2
Any Saint Saens concerto
Von sauer 1/2 (tbh I like 2 a little better even
All the Scharwenka concertos (just great)
Medtner piano concerto 3
Poulenc concerto allegretto specifically
Von Henselt concerto
Rach 3
Hummel concerto 2
Mozart fortepiano concerto 15
Anton Rubenstein 4
Love the Ries concertos
Henry Herz concertos
Lyapunov 1 or 2
Scriabin concerto in f
Arensky piano concerto
Massanet piano concerto
Busoni piano concerto
And many many more
Why did you put me low in the thumbnail but put beethoven higher than me....?
@@WolfgangAmadeusMozart1761 well um, you see, um, Mr. Mozart sir, I was...😬
@ryanabshier 😠
I agree a lot with this list for almost all the concertos, I would have maybe put rach 3 or maybe Grieg in royalty, but I'm not even sure myself, but I was very afraid that Brahms 2 would not go to royalty, when I saw it I was like YEEES!!!
Thank you
Great list Ryan. Any room for Mozart #21, 24 and 27? Mendelssohn #1?
S-Tier : Rachmaninoff’s 2nd and 3rd, Gershwin’s and Scriabin’s
A-Tier : Beethoven 5th and 3rd, Liszt’ second, Brahms’ second, Grieg and Schumann’s
B-Tier : Tchaikovsky’s first and second concerto, Shostakovich’s second, Ravel’s, Brahms’ first, Hummel’ second, as well as Prokofiev, Bartok, Saint-Saëns and Mozart’s concertos
C-Tier : Chopin’s concertos and some from Mozart
D-Tier :
Brahms 2nd is, for me, the absolute perfect piano concerto from start to finish.
Wonderful!! I'm in total agreement with your Royalty tier. Probably because it's the first piano concerto I saw performed live, I would move the Tchaikovsky up one level, but that's just quibbling. Also, what do you think of the Saint-Saens fifth, and the Mendelssohn No. 1? They'd both probably be on my list somewhere. Keep up the good work!
@@JoeNicolosi-l8i awesome, so glad you enjoyed the video! I always hope people can have a good time chatting about some awesome music.
Mendelssohn 1 was one of the first prices off the list. I considered adding it. Honestly it's mostly a time issue, it's been quite a while since I've listened to it.
Saint Saens concerti however have just never clicked with me. I find him a little too over-sentimental for my tastes. Not saying they are bad by any means, but they don't crack my top 20.
Great video! Only addition I would make would be Gershwin F. While not immediately catchy as rhapsody in blue is, his treatment of the themes is genius and I regard the development of the 1st movement B theme as one of the most beautiful musical moments of all time!
Wow, my 3 favorites are your "Royalty" tier. Amazing!
Chopins concerto in e minor should be at least gold IMO
Brahms 1 has to be royalty
Please please please can you do a tier list on Chopins preludes, or even etudes. I’m sure a lot of people will be interested in your ranking!
Well, I would have put Beethoven 4 at the top. That said, this ranking for works of this magnitude is really just for fun, because 100 people will rank them 100 different ways!
Exactly. Rankings are just for fun. I'm an old geezer who has heard a gazillion recordings of all of them, and lots more. There are so many great concertos that everyone will find their particular favorites among them. (BTW, if forced to choose, Beethoven PC 4 tops my list, too.)
When I started the video I thought: Beethoven 5 and Rach 2, I wonder which else could be on top. Now I know I need to listen to Brahms 2. Thanks!
@@chrisportislander2458 oh sweet. If we line up on those 2 there's a good chance you'll love Brahms as well. If you started listening right after your comment you should be wrapping up the final movement about now...lol
@@ryanabshier I love his symphonies, so I look forward to it very much. Need to set aside some time ;)
I would have ranked these very similar . I would have moved up one of the chopins one tier and dropped the gershwin one. I would have moved the 4th beethoven to royalty and dropped the 5th to platinum. the fifth is very triumphant and majestic and a very disciplined encouragement at times ( you can do it kind of thing). The fourth to me hits all the moods (mystery, trials, beauty of nature, spiritual, hope, regrets, love.,etc.... yeah) - just personal to me - it hits all the elements of life. I would have replaced mozart 20 with 21. I also like Mozart 17 and Mendelsohn 1 but they may have only made silver. I am just discovering Saint Saens in earnest (great stuff) . I am not into the super modern ones as much (eg. Shostakovich) Great list! Thanks . You are a younger man than me, I wonder if there would be any changes to list in another 20 years of life experiences?
Great! I just missed some of my favorite pieces from Dohnányi and Moszkowski, maybe worth including next time!
Medtner Cons 2 and 3 are the best without a doubt
The first time listening its like a improvisation but hell nah every note has is place and meaning
Really hyped👍👍
Me to
@@REALSNAPGAMES what are your favorites?
@@ryanabshier rach 2, rach 3, schumann, grieg, chopin 1st (top 5 from best to worst)
This is too easy... Mozart's number 23 is a jewel, with the last movement being the most joyous romp in the concerto repertoire!
Gray ranking, but I missed Saint-Saêns 5th. Truly an underrated masterpiece.
Schoenberg's Piano Concerto and Lutoslawski's Piano Concerto should be considered royalty for sure.
Very simple for me, Mozart, Mozart, Ravel, Mozart, Ravel, Mozart, etc..
How can you possibly not include Mozart 21?
Awesome video. Greetings from Brazil
Nice list
@@DMajor402 thanks! Hey, did you see my message about resending your piece? I missed the download deadline cause I'm crazy
@@ryanabshier yes I sent you the video again
I don't understand why people don't love chopin's concertos, especially op. 11 in Em.
For me, his solo piano works are superior, so I don't typically go to his concertos when I'm in the mood for Chopin. He wasn't as good of an orchestrator as other composers.
Great list with one major flaw. Rach 3 has to preside over all of them. To put it in Platinum makes me cry! :-)
You're right; thre are any more excellent concertos. Someone often overlooked is Hummel. His B minor and A minor are amazing.
Rach 2+3, Beethoven 5, Bortkiewicz no.3, Mozkowski 2, Grieg, and Liszt are my favorites. Plus Sibelius and Mendolsohnn violin concerti are amazing.
I have a controversial pianist opinion. Mendelssohn violin concerto > than Mendelssohn's piano concertos 😯
So I'm with you on that!
@@ryanabshier I agree! Great video :)
@@ethancolmancomposer thanks for checking it out!
@@ryanabshier Based opinion! Being a pianist doesn't mean you have to be biased for piano music, I personally enjoy Beethoven's orchestral works way more than his piano sonatas or concertos, but that doesn't stop me from loving and wanting to play them!
@@ryanabshier It's not controversial at all. The Mendelssohn VC is rated as one of the big four violin concertos yet Mendelssohn PCs are mostly considered student concertos that are not so commonly performed by professionals.
Recently found on utube, Beethoven 3 by Maria Pires on a fortepiano. Stunning!
Putting rach 2 above rach 3 should be considered a crime…
It's just like how most people prefer Prok 3 over Prok 2...
@@andromedaperseus954I agree so much. I much prefer the second
NGL rach 3 feels like an extension / advancement of rach 2 in almost every single way
@@samaritan29 Prok 3 feels like a simplification of Prok 2 in almost every single way.
not at all, rach 3 is dark & depresive; rach2 is warm, sunny, soul enchanting
Always interesting reading these lists, but of course they are so subjective, and understandably so. Music reaches us in its own way. I love all of these, have played a few, but as odd as it seems, my favorite Concerto is an unlikely one for most: the Schumann. Something about its construction, the flow and pace of it seized me as a little boy, and (many decades later) never let go. Love all the others as well, but Schumann is my guy.
Lmao rach 2 over rach 3 is insane…
I understand the argument against Chopin's concertos, that his orchestrations aren't the best and that the orchestra is basically just an accompaniement compared to the Rach concerto where there's way more interaction and the orchestra plays a much more important role. However, I believe the art of using the orchestra is a tool for composers, like for example, use of harmony or the capacity to write pure melodies which you can't deny Chopin was top-tier at. For me, the way the tools are used is of a lesser importance than the end-product, and the enjoyableness of the whole concerto. For me, and you might disagree, the intimacy of Chopin's writing gets me every time, the two themes of the first movement in the Em are pure bliss, and the orchestral introduction along with the coda and other parts (development, transition) add some turmoil to it which makes it exciting. On a side note I feel like the concertos much like virtually all of his works have a patriotic dimension, and knowing that can deepen our understanding of the concertos.
Great comment!
Yes indeed i understand people that play the orchestra part might be a bit bored. But both his concertos are still my favorite over every other that i know in this list. Yes even rach2. His 1st concerto is my favorite piece i ever listened too.
Totally agreed!!
Beetovens #4 is an equal to his 5th. It should be royal.
Wheres Prokofiev 2???
Rhapsody in Blue above Ravel's Left Hand is a huge miscalculation. Tchaikovsky wrote 3 piano concertos.
Where's Prokofiev 3 and Shostakovich 2 :(
Grieg above Schumann is a war crime. Grieg is but a pale imitation of the Schumann. Ravel G major and Schumann could easily both be royalty.
Exactly!
Good list but I think there are a few essentials that really HAVE to be on such a list: Prok 2 and Prok 3. Also I'd personally switch Rach 2 and 3, Beet 4 and 5 but Brahms can also stay on my list
Ravel piano concerto for the left hand is seriously underrated here; it should be considered gold or royalty; it's better and more innovative than the other Ravel piano concerto. Please listen to the recording made by Samson François in 1959.
My favorite piano concertos have to be Bortkiewicz no 1, Kosenko op. 23, Moskowski op. 59, and recently I've been listening to Scharwenka no. 3, all of whom I believe to be underappreciated composers. Alkan's solo piano concerto is also great
Very nice and competent video - even though my classification would be totally different.
I would have Schumann as the ultimate romantic piano concerto in the royalty category, together with the two minor concertos by Mozart - the d minor concerto isn’t even in your list.
But tastes differ, and your list, as well as your reasoning, are profound and beautiful.
@@henrykaspar3634 glad you enjoyed the video! So refreshing to hear a friendly, respoectful comment from someone who disagrees.
I think Schumann peaked for me several years ago. I was very close to learning it but went with Grieg instead. But at the time I was so conflicted. Felt sad that the time and effort would go to one and ignore the other.
Do you know the Lipatti/Karajan recording of the Schumann concerto? For me this is everything a romantic piano concerto can and should be.
Great list!
To me it would be:
Royalty: Brahms 2, Beethoven 4.
Platinum: Rach 3 (tempted for Royalty), Beethoven 5, Brahms 1, Rach 2, Grieg
Gold: the rest that are not in silver.
Silver: Gershwin Rhapsody, Ravel LH, Bartok 3.
And I would also include high in the list Prokofiev 2 & 3, Liszt 1 & 2, Medtner 1 & 3, Moszkowski op.59, Mozart 21, Mendelssohn 1, Bartok 2, Bach Keyboard concertos... list goes on and on, too many great piano concertos to chose from (also from "unknown" composers. UA-cam algorithms can really take you for a ride on this one :))
PS. I also think that Chopin's orchestration works perfectly for the purpose of his concertos which is to highlight his "god-tier" piano writing/playing skills. Adding a lot of those traditional orchestral-piano dialogue sections would feel out of place in there, although I still prefer the more "balanced" approach.
Platinum:
Brahms 2
Rach 2
Beethoven 4 and 5
Mozart 15 and 22 and 23 and 24 and 25
Based on the most played concerto, it is Tchaikovsky. Basically every famous pianist has it in his repertory, while for all others is rare to match.
Sorry for Mozart's n.21 (KV467) not having made to the list, that's the piece which made me loving classical music.
We definitely actually need a Mozart concertos tier list, at this point - There's lot of them, and all are just so good they deserve a video about them.
Overall, a great list, but I'd have to concur with some of the other posters that Rach 2 is at least equaled by Rach 3 which, for me, is only topped by my personal favorite... Prokofiev 3!
Rach 3 was such a snub
Tchaik 1 is the first concerto I learned in full so it has a special position to me. However it's a weird mix to me, especially the first movement. The opening is just epic, definitely deserved to be in the highest tier, but the following parallel octave section sounds so excessive and not interesting unless you actually play this piece, and then it goes to the nice slow theme which is again god tier to me. I kind of hope the cadenza can be done differently tbh.
No Prok 2 (beautiful 1st mvt) or 3?
scriabin's piano concerto should make the list too. its such and underrated piano concerto and rea;;y great and emotional as well. people should at least give it a shot
Although I agree with your list, Liszt’s Piano Concerto No. 2 is one of my favourites. I’d probably put it in Gold or Platinum. It easily stands up against Schumann’s and Chopin’s concertos.😊
In my Opinion, this List is not complete without Reger's gigantic Concerto op.114!
Especially for those who love Brahms, i'd recommend to listen to it.
There is a Video with Score Reduction on UA-cam (Pianist: de Groote).
Also i recommend to check out a Video "Reger Analysis - Cellular composition in his Piano Concerto F minor op. 114/III"
on the Channel "O. T. Tjabben".
Personally, I's put the Rach 3rd in Royalty and the 2nd in Gold, maybe Plat.
Please do a video exploring the lesser-known piano concertos. The works you fearured here are great, but there are some very obscure works out there needing more exposure! Beethoven, Mozart, Rachmaninoff, etc. all talked about too much.
Rach 3, Prok 2 and Brahms 2 are 100% Royalty. The rest I won't quibble about too much. Prok 3 should be there, probably Royalty although I'd accept Platinum.
Mendelssohn 1. King of Earworms.
Why Doesn’t anyone talk about hummels piano concerto. Especially no 2. Its easily top 5 for anyone who loves chopin
Prokofiev 1 getting gold makes me forgive you for some of your past rankings. It's full of ideas, has a dynamic opening and finale, and the second movement is very moving. Maybe it's cause ive played it with my teacher, but still.
I also wanna mention Mendelssohn's 1st and 2nd piano concertos, not the greatest and most popular concertos obviously, but they were some of the first I listened to when getting into classical, so they hold a special place for me
Am certain I'm not alone in believing that Beethoven 4th should be in the Royalty Tier.
Thank you! But I think Tschaikovsky deserves Royalty.
I would move the Mozart 23 and Tchaikovsky 1 to Platinum tier, for sure. Mozart 27 should be there as well. Chopin 1 should be gold. Brahms 1 and Rachmaninov 3 should both be in Royalty tier. A lot of other great concertos are missing from the list. The Liszt ones should be there, in silver tier though. Maybe Tchaikovsky 2 as well and the Mendelssohn ones too. Mozart 21 deserves a place in silver, for sure.
6:25 I’m genuinely kind of annoyed you didn’t say “right in queue we have rach two”
🤣🤣🤣 I'm honestly disappointed with myself too. I heard that like 3 times when editing and everytime time wished I'd thought of it.
Mozart 20, 23, 24, Beethoven 1 and 5, Grieg
Rachmaninoff regarded the Grieg concerto as the greatest ever written. I don't in any way agree with that. But it is an interesting perspective coming from Rachmaninoff.
For me the top 10 (in no particular order)
Bach in D minor BWV 1052 ua-cam.com/video/qXQ2yscJ4Mk/v-deo.html
Bach in F minor BWV 1056 ua-cam.com/video/a0n99OopdpA/v-deo.htmlsi=yUEbj2q9P-NLiZJa
Beethoven #4 in G ua-cam.com/video/R56ERxHtvkI/v-deo.htmlsi=3Rnb5khnoo5uOKQ2&t=33
Beethoven #5 in Eb (Emperor) ua-cam.com/video/V4pJxad_aI8/v-deo.htmlsi=pCZbxjV_IEKp7n2L&t=24
Mendelssohn #1 in G minor ua-cam.com/video/2GGx8TRWFVA/v-deo.htmlsi=8tWyb7pMuSlHdH7O&t=20
Mozart #9 in Eb (Jeunehomme) ua-cam.com/video/ozvWLv_lLXA/v-deo.html
Mozart #20 in D minor ua-cam.com/video/yM8CFR01KwQ/v-deo.htmlsi=d7gp3AMVbX58fSwo&t=57
Mozart #21 in C ua-cam.com/video/tlemxI7QciA/v-deo.htmlsi=YJuah3bI27GPr2TG&t=37
Rachmaninoff #3 in D minor ua-cam.com/video/MOOfoW5_2iE/v-deo.htmlsi=m6yhBjKief-BzVU4&t=27
Saint-Saens #2 in G minor ua-cam.com/video/tVCvJZtzkqQ/v-deo.htmlsi=tZwqr4wSTEZJDCMZ
Let me ACCURATELY re-arrange these for you. Without destroying your grading system of S, P, G, S, let me add one more tier. This, to me, is the top tier above S. I call this the Z level, Z standing for ZENITH. This is the absolute pinnacle of music composition mastery as far as piano concertos go. In this level, we have ALL five of the Beethoven piano concertos. Nobody, in the history of music, comes even remotely close to B when it comes composing a piano concerto...N-O-B-O-D-Y! (not even herr Mozart) This is especially so regarding his counter-melody writing, stylistic depth of his orchestral writing, and, above all, quite pleasing melodic development and phrasing to be found in all of his piano concerti. In addition to B at this level, I include the Brahms' First PC because the first movement of said concerto is probably the single greatest piece of music that has ever been composed, bar none. It essentially contains compositional elements that evokes just about every human emotion. Check it out. For me, case closed. You can do what you want with the rest of them.
putting beethoven 5 above 4 has to be a crime. Also, imo rhapsody on a theme of paganini is the best rachmaninoff concerto imo
I agree regarding Beethoven PC 4. Unquestionably his best in my view.
L take
@@patricksarama4963 out of curiosity, which one>? or both?
I also like Rach 2 better than Rach 3.
Beethoven 4 is as good as it gets. The outer movements are wonderful, but the slow movement is amazing, even for Beethoven. I don't know anything else like it.
I always find the last two movement of Brahms 2 to be somewhat of a let down after the drama and intensity of the first two.
I'd have included the 2 Shostakovich concerti - the trumpet-haunted Lento of the 1st is a real winner, but the 2nd is much more infectiously joyful. The Rachmaninov Paganin variations certainly hold a candle to much on your list, and for a Joker card I'd throw in Dohnanyi's wonderful Variations on a Nursery Rhyme.
No Sant-Säens? Pop him in instead of Chopin - who is, incidentally my favourite composer (I'm currently immersed in the Scherzos and havev nothing but love for the guy), but whose concerti are both fairly forgettable.
And prokofiev 2 and 3??
tchaikovski 2 silver more like symphony with piano; paganini violin concertos like accompaniment too;
My favourite is Tchaikovsky's #1.
my top 3: Chopin 2, Rach 2 and Moszkowski 1