(from a perspective of a person who mostly plays only bleed builds (since no one has done it, except for Dreamcore, even though it was mostly about melee bleed). "Innerblaze has entered the chat" !!
Ayyyy, I remember you! I've seen your lacerate champ from 3.18 as well as your heavy strike bleed jugg. Pretty decent, though my point of concern always remained budget to power ratio. Nevertheless - good builds.
I wasted my first labyrinth completion on trying out new divine font for transfigured, only for my primary dps skill gem slotted to get thwacked in the head with RNJesus’s BS. Sigh, if only I had recalled those hidden details as a returner. Could’ve gotten 2% quality instead
That doesn't really take into account several things: - you get 20% more (additive unfortunately) from 20% quality bringing you to ~278 - you get a ton of flat phys - you get 8s base duration (vs. 5 default) that also scales with skill duration, which isn't "DPS" in itself but it's pretty relevant once you're stacking faster bleed or Crimson Dance - you get guaranteed bleed, which gives you some passive point and gem flexibility Having said that, I don't think that Melee Puncture is good right now, but comparing gems on paper and in PoB is pretty complicated once you take practicality into account. A 2H Sunder build for example is gonna have a rough time keeping up Crimson Dance (as configured in the PoB here). PoB can be extremely deceiving for bleed because it assumes you're standing still and constantly attacking (even for Snipe). That's just incredibly unrealistic.
@@XxZarionxX flat phys isn't the end all as long as you have a good weapon, heavy strike is 80% atk speed, compared to 75% puncture bleed duration isn't really relevant as unless you are using sadism a normal bleed can and will be more than enough for any build to strike 16 times in its duration (for clearing, for bossing perhaps duration is more relevant, but neither is good for bossing) . guaranteed bleed is nice at early game, but unless you are playing really weird bleed 100% isn't hard nor expensive heavy strike double damage while not useful for bigger bleeds, is great for getting max bonus from cruelty but when ggg creates specialized gems that can't compete with generic skill "hit hard" the number should be buffed
@@docb2049 sure, the flat phys becomes less meaningful with better weapons, but on most builds it's probably worth at least 10-20% extra. Guaranteed bleed is also definitely the weakest "pro" I'll admit. I strongly disagree on bleed duration being irrelevant though. You don't just want 8 stacks. There's a lot of variance in individual bleed stacks, especially if you're using Ryslatha's or supports like Volatility, Multistrike, and Ruthless. And any character that can't straight up face tank bosses is gonna have to invest in bleed duration for reasonable damage uptime. Still, I don't actually recommend playing Melee Puncture. You're right that it's probably bad. I just took this as an example to highlight that "damage effectiveness" isn't the only relevant metric for a bleed skill and that PoB numbers can be very deceiving for bleed specifically.
Well, this is clear why ggg hates bleed for what it is) Basically it's an ignite but worse, and with crimson dance its just looks like a parody on poison - Current bleed in comparison to other options just ain't cut it. Poison and ignite just literally got some insane ways of scaling damage in face of Burning arrow and Viper strike alt gems. Bleed should be removed at this point, just move on guys.
They just need bleeds to work like the new penance brand. Get rid of crimson dance and make bleeds baseline stackable. Maybe make crit bleeds scale better with triple dmg ticks. Also have a some unique bleed interactions with leech, blind, and maims. There’s so many ways to make it viable. I also really want gladiator tree to have a dual wield spec/synergy. If they added more interesting synergy with ripostes and blocks or even a new parry skill.
But can you make Lacerate of Brutality in that case the better for Bleed then of Hemorrhaging? From what I can see the damage from Lacerate of Brutality is not bad and they angle is huge. According to Ben (Lightee7) he said Boneshatter of Complex Trauma has the highest bleed possible in the game for melee, he said it's not even close. But I have no idea how you would even build something like that.
Lacerate of butchering has exact same dps (due to attack speed multiplier and lack of more damage with bleeding) as default lacerate, so its only purpose is having huge AoE. Yes, Ben is right. Even before that, boneshatter was numerically the best skill for bleed, but it has many issues - from ramp up time, to trauma sustain and having to invest into additional strikes. So same applies to Boneshatter of complex trauma, but to a bigger extent. The sustain downside, of course, can be mitigated by playing slayer or juggernaut, but at that point there is no reason to play bleed over regular on-hit boneshatter.
still gonna play it hahaa. i think its not a good idea to limit yourself from using skills that are fun even if building them is hard. i like the challenge
When I was talking about, it wasnt about the challenge, but poor QoL and damage. I tried it yesterday, got to lvl ~75, and realised that lack of aoe and unconditional flat phys is VERY noticable while clearing. So since switching skills for mapping and single target is VERY whack, I dropped the idea.
![[3.25] My plans for league start and some bleed PoB cooking](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/AYjx0gvvz-U/mqdefault.jpg)
(from a perspective of a person who mostly plays only bleed builds (since no one has done it, except for Dreamcore, even though it was mostly about melee bleed). "Innerblaze has entered the chat" !!
Ayyyy, I remember you! I've seen your lacerate champ from 3.18 as well as your heavy strike bleed jugg. Pretty decent, though my point of concern always remained budget to power ratio. Nevertheless - good builds.
ruthless does not work on lacerate, it only supports strike skills, biggest bleed multiplier you can get is volatility
I wasted my first labyrinth completion on trying out new divine font for transfigured, only for my primary dps skill gem slotted to get thwacked in the head with RNJesus’s BS. Sigh, if only I had recalled those hidden details as a returner. Could’ve gotten 2% quality instead
I dont know why they STILL havent reworked bleed/gladiator. It is so bad compared to everything else.
Glad I dropped my bleed gladiator
i will add to the rant: heavy strike with eff of 313% is a better strike bleed skill than puncture with 165*1.49=246%
That doesn't really take into account several things:
- you get 20% more (additive unfortunately) from 20% quality bringing you to ~278
- you get a ton of flat phys
- you get 8s base duration (vs. 5 default) that also scales with skill duration, which isn't "DPS" in itself but it's pretty relevant once you're stacking faster bleed or Crimson Dance
- you get guaranteed bleed, which gives you some passive point and gem flexibility
Having said that, I don't think that Melee Puncture is good right now, but comparing gems on paper and in PoB is pretty complicated once you take practicality into account.
A 2H Sunder build for example is gonna have a rough time keeping up Crimson Dance (as configured in the PoB here). PoB can be extremely deceiving for bleed because it assumes you're standing still and constantly attacking (even for Snipe). That's just incredibly unrealistic.
@@XxZarionxX flat phys isn't the end all as long as you have a good weapon,
heavy strike is 80% atk speed, compared to 75% puncture
bleed duration isn't really relevant as unless you are using sadism a normal bleed can and will be more than enough for any build to strike 16 times in its duration (for clearing, for bossing perhaps duration is more relevant, but neither is good for bossing) .
guaranteed bleed is nice at early game, but unless you are playing really weird bleed 100% isn't hard nor expensive
heavy strike double damage while not useful for bigger bleeds, is great for getting max bonus from cruelty
but when ggg creates specialized gems that can't compete with generic skill "hit hard" the number should be buffed
@@docb2049 sure, the flat phys becomes less meaningful with better weapons, but on most builds it's probably worth at least 10-20% extra.
Guaranteed bleed is also definitely the weakest "pro" I'll admit.
I strongly disagree on bleed duration being irrelevant though. You don't just want 8 stacks. There's a lot of variance in individual bleed stacks, especially if you're using Ryslatha's or supports like Volatility, Multistrike, and Ruthless. And any character that can't straight up face tank bosses is gonna have to invest in bleed duration for reasonable damage uptime.
Still, I don't actually recommend playing Melee Puncture. You're right that it's probably bad. I just took this as an example to highlight that "damage effectiveness" isn't the only relevant metric for a bleed skill and that PoB numbers can be very deceiving for bleed specifically.
Well, this is clear why ggg hates bleed for what it is) Basically it's an ignite but worse, and with crimson dance its just looks like a parody on poison - Current bleed in comparison to other options just ain't cut it. Poison and ignite just literally got some insane ways of scaling damage in face of Burning arrow and Viper strike alt gems.
Bleed should be removed at this point, just move on guys.
You could probably triple bleed dps across the board and it would still be sub par.
They just need bleeds to work like the new penance brand.
Get rid of crimson dance and make bleeds baseline stackable.
Maybe make crit bleeds scale better with triple dmg ticks.
Also have a some unique bleed interactions with leech, blind, and maims.
There’s so many ways to make it viable.
I also really want gladiator tree to have a dual wield spec/synergy.
If they added more interesting synergy with ripostes and blocks or even a new parry skill.
But can you make Lacerate of Brutality in that case the better for Bleed then of Hemorrhaging? From what I can see the damage from Lacerate of Brutality is not bad and they angle is huge.
According to Ben (Lightee7) he said Boneshatter of Complex Trauma has the highest bleed possible in the game for melee, he said it's not even close. But I have no idea how you would even build something like that.
Lacerate of butchering has exact same dps (due to attack speed multiplier and lack of more damage with bleeding) as default lacerate, so its only purpose is having huge AoE.
Yes, Ben is right. Even before that, boneshatter was numerically the best skill for bleed, but it has many issues - from ramp up time, to trauma sustain and having to invest into additional strikes. So same applies to Boneshatter of complex trauma, but to a bigger extent. The sustain downside, of course, can be mitigated by playing slayer or juggernaut, but at that point there is no reason to play bleed over regular on-hit boneshatter.
Best melee bleed gem in current poe is boneshatter, or snipe for range. Bleed lacerate/bladestorm (even maybe Earthquake) are noob trap.
baseg
Well, now we really have "Bleed trap" 😭
Change "bleed" to "melee" and it would still be perfect for the rant.
why do you drop this video less than 2 days after i start a bleed build?
I dropped it before league start.
still gonna play it hahaa. i think its not a good idea to limit yourself from using skills that are fun even if building them is hard. i like the challenge
When I was talking about, it wasnt about the challenge, but poor QoL and damage. I tried it yesterday, got to lvl ~75, and realised that lack of aoe and unconditional flat phys is VERY noticable while clearing. So since switching skills for mapping and single target is VERY whack, I dropped the idea.
oh no, complaining about ANY other skill than one the content creators use is a mortal sin in POE's trash community