You Will Believe: The Cinematic Saga of Superman (2006) - Part 4: Crisis
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- Опубліковано 13 жов 2012
- Part 4 of 5, chronicling the ups and downs of the "Superman" films made from 1978 to 1987. Features interviews with cast, crew members, and industry experts.
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Firing Richard Donner was a horrible decision. The Salkinds didn't want to pay Marlon Brando, so they ended up reshooting most of Superman II. Wow! That was an expensive way to save money. They even made it into the Guiness Book of World Records as having the most expensive movie for an entire decade.
+james dean Agreed. It has some highlights, but it's not much of an improvement as a whole. I also think the biggest mistake was deciding to shoot both Superman I and II simultaneously. You can't assume that you're going to have a sequel unless the first picture works. That's probably why Fantastic Four 2015 failed, or at least one reason. It's best to just focus on the one picture first, then, if it's a success, go ahead and make a great sequel. Reading the original script for Superman II that was Richard Donner's version of the film, it's questionable whether that version would have been as successful if released. Perhaps it should be cut some slack for only being an early script, but I don't think the Donner version would have necessarily fared better. I have to say, for the most part, even though the rest of the scenes Lester shot were all Donner's ideas, he completed Superman II successfully and was able to make a great film. If I had to give credit to just one director though, it would be Richard Donner, since even the reshoots included Donner's idea.
Fantastic Four 2015 bombed because it was done purely for Fox to keep the rights...just like Roger Corman's unreleased effort in the mid-'90s. They didn't want Marvel to have the rights back, so they made a film that barely resembled the source just to keep Marvel away. There have been rumors that Marvel is close to getting them back anyway, and later doing a proper version of the team for tghe MCU...but nothing's become official yet.
You can tell they were looking for an excuse to fire Donner, they were not getting along and the budget was higher than expected. When 1 was a huge smash they figured "We don't need him anymore" It was a shortsighted decision fueled mostly by EGO I think. It hurt the franchise and probably ruined what could have been 3 great Chris Reeve Superman films..
Makes me prefer his version of Superman 2. That version was beautifully made for a number of reasons.
Kal-El's mother was drop dead gorgeous
Just look what happened when the Salklands/Lester had a Superman movie all to themselves without ANY involvement from Richard Donner or Tom Mankiewicz. You get Superman 3.
The only reason it appeared somewhat decent was thanks to Donner’s efforts. There would have been no Zoptic system or Chris Reeve for that matter.
He stopped directing movies in 1989, when Roy Kinnear (an actor, you might remember him as Veruca Salt's Father in Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory) died while filming a stunt.
Margot Kidder’s got a point. This is exactly the same predicament that the “Justice League” movie is facing. History is repeating itself.
Michael Kurland except that Snyder left because his daughter died
Austin Pearce it’s still the same problem.
Interesting thing is that the Marvel Universe had many different directors, and each of them were dealt with with respect and in nice ways, and still appreciated - Jon Favreau from Iron Man, Kenneth Branagh who directed Thor - all of these guys harbored no ill feelings even though they were the ones who got the Universe off the ground.
Snyder wasn’t going to hack up his movie the way Warners would have wanted it so they had Whedon do the dirty work. If it weren’t for the digital mustache removal, there wouldn’t have been as much of a demand for the Snyder cut.
The Marvel Cinematic Universe is producer controlled like television. Films tend to be director controlled and while they trusted the initial name directors to hire the cast and establish their first movie, they were quickly let go so that they could carry on the rest of the series with directors there to mostly handle the complicated shoots, much like how the Salkinds got rid of Donner and thought they would just carry on great without him.
You guy's did perfectly.
As a kid, Superman 2 was my favorite. As I got older, the first film took its place. And before I knew of ANY of the behind the scenes troubles with Donner/Salklands/Lester, Superman 1 was firmly established as my all time favorite CB film, with Superman 2 way down the list. I find most of S2 boring. The Donner cut, whilst incomplete, for me, shows are far more competent film was there.
The Salklands truly goofed with firing Donner. The Reeve era films most likely would have been great. Imagine a Donner series of 4 or more films. My days. What could have been.
The whole situation that Lester walked into was shady and unprofessional. There is so much footage that is not his yet it was used in the movie with his name on it as director.
The irony being that Lester working on the film was done as a make-good to him after the Salkinds screwed HIM during the making of 3 Musketeers and 4 Musketeers (also filmed simultaneously).
Thing is, Lester was a very good director but he was the wrong guy for Superman as conceived by Donner and Mankiewicz, and certainly wasn’t helped by him being hired to just complete out a 70% filmed movie. It’s especially jarring because you see scenes flipping from a Donner to Lester and back within the same scene. And Lester used a whole new crew on the shoot, with the cinematography looking incredibly flat and plain, compared with Geoffrey Unsworth’s beautiful cinematography.
Of course, even if Donner was able to come back, the cinematography would’ve been an issue, since Unsworth died before the 1978 film even released.
@@peterp2153 There were several other camera crews involved with filming for the movie after Unsworth left the production to work on Michael Crichton's "The First Great Train Robbery" in early 1978; they managed to duplicate Unsworth's style seamlessly, so I think any one of them promoted to the main unit might've been able to keep the look right.
Besides which, even with Unsworth gone, Unsworth's camera crew still worked together; they could've been rehired for the continuation and probably quite willingly would've done it.
In the original Superman, the English baby Kal El in this film is Lee Quigley, he died at 14, of solvent abuse 1991
The little boy who played Clark when he lifted that truck off is Canadian Aaron Smolinksi, who plays Communications Officer in "Man of Steel" 2013......
The Young Clark Kent Jeff East appears in "Ransoms Law" (2017) he's also in real estate!
The little Clark that lifted Jonathan Kent's car was in Man Of Steel? I only saw it once and I didn't know that til now.
Thank God Salkind or Lester or whoever threw out the scene where Lois throws herself out the window
The scene where the boy got killed by the police siren was cut out. I think they realized it was too silly for it to become an explosive due to Non throwing it.
I would like to see Richard Donner completed his Superman II. I feel that that fans are wrong to give Richard Lester some flack. Whether rightly or wrongly he still completed the film. To give Richard Lester credit he hasn't bad mouthed any of the cast and crew.
Richard Lester worked with the Beatles, there's no way you can hate him!
That Ilya Salkind is such a shyster.
It's so shady watching him and Pierre Spengler at the beginning, as if bringing the supervillains back for the second film was their idea. Unbelievable.
It’s just a gussied piece for the initial documentary that didn’t make the final cut.
I didn't know when I saw the film as a teen the behind the scenes stuff about Donner and Lester and all that. I just enjoyed the film. As a matter of fact, the first time I saw it was on ABC, where there was added stuff, like the death scene of the boy and when I caught it on HBO, couldn't believe that there were scenes not there.
All scenes with Hackman were filmed by Donner. Lester couldn’t reshoot those scenes because Hackman was “protesting” the firing of Donner.
I don't blame Lester for taking the job but what I would like to ask Ilya why Lester was chosen to direct these Superman films though. Based on his previous film work he seemed to be about as good a fit as Woody Allen.
Lester was a go-between on the original 2-film production, when tensions became exceedingly high with Richard Donner and the Salkinds. They hired him as director for the second and third films because he would do as they told him. Donner was all about treating the character with respect and honesty...while Alexander Salkind seemed more interested in being cheap and running a tight schedule. Donner's always claimed that he was never given a budget or a schedule for his efforts...only being told that he was out-of-bounds regarding both.
It didn’t help that Donner would blow off weeks of shooting because the sky wasn’t right. When it rained in Paris, Lester went with it so they could stay on schedule.
10:00 the Salkind's are such pricks. The first one was not a success because of "lack of competition" it was because Donner made a masterpiece that created the whole comic book movie genre. Lester directed A Hard Day's Night and Help for fuck's sake. As much as I love the Beatles, those movies were a joke compared to The Omen.
I think most the cast should've threatened to walk if they didn't reinstate Richard Donner.
Walking out on a film could spell the end of your career. Kidder was the one who blew the whistle on the whole situation and her career tanked.
I wonder what ever happened to that Richard Donner guy after they fired him?
He moved on with his career and made films like Lethal Weapon and The Goonies.
Yep; he directed all four of the "Lethal Weapon" movies, plus tons of others like "Ladyhawke", "Maverick", "Timeline", and "16 Blocks". He's also produced films like "Free Willy", the original "X-Men", and "Any Given Sunday".
For me, the franchise truly went on life-support the day that Richard Donner was fired from this blockbuster franchise that he had helped envision. It was a gradual deterioration from then on. The second film was a facsimile of the first, the third which could have had heart with Lana Lang and Clark rekindling their high school romance was a parody thanks to Richard Pryor‘s involvement. The fourth films weakness was not Christopher’s vision but just a bad script and in adequate funding. If dick had been involved, this franchise could’ve gone on beyond a fourth film and perhaps even given life to Supergirl. That film itself would’ve been better if Chris had made a cameo, which would’ve lent validation and support to the insertion of his cousins story. But money and ego and arrogance prevailed and you wanna buy the director that didn’t even know how to properly tell a story without comedy anymore that he understood superman’s powers. It’s all just a shame. The Donner cut that was released was very impressive. If not for the lack of means to convey an alternate ending to the turning back the world again, I think Richard and Tom would have come with something more plausible. I really hated the “kiss and dismiss” memory wipe from Lester film. The time travel was the only flaw in that release, which was retreading on what had been done for the first film. I think superman turning back time to save lowers from dying made more sense for the first film ending then it would have for the second; that’s a decision I approve of. He finally found someone that he could share his life with potential he and she was taken away from him in spite of all he could do.It’s a shame. They took the heart out of the first film by firing dick and not even asking John Williams to come back to score of the film again.
this is real filmmakers work..and today we have captain america,avengers,batman vs superman,wonder woman...all look like a playstation game
Omg was spengler really talking like it was his idea to bring the 3 villains back when donner already shot tons of the villains footage we see in the donner cut. I didnt know thats how 1 was gonna end. So i guess originally lois never was gonna almost die. I dont believe donner would really quit if that spengler was back maybe he was just talking b/c hes quoted saying everythings ok. Anyway its gross lester posed in the final cast crew pic where donner & chris were up front & center. How stupid to cut brando scenes. They already paid him for both. They just had to pay him back end 11% of the gross like part 1. Plus re shooting cost them much more.
I'm not a Beatles fan, and I don't know anything about Lester outside of the Superman franchise, except that he hasn't directed anything in 20 years.
Penny-pinching Salkinds. Can't forgive Superman 3 and 4. What a screaming pity 😑
The Salkinds had nothing to do with "Superman IV" - Cannon Films slashed the budget which created that film's problems.
Moviefan2k4 Menahem Golan of Cannon Films, who was the worst filmmaking mogul in the last 50 years, is dead now. He was just awful to Christopher Reeve and I hope that he’s burning in Hell.
The producers have the charisma of a dead fish.
I'm a Beatles fan, not to say I've seen those films 'cause the clothes and hair looked weird in a sad awful way, but Donner knew better with Superman.