My pet theory is that Smaug was one of the last survivors of Angband, having fled the War of Wrath. So, in that sense, he is the last surviving "great" dragon, meaning the first generation of dragons bred by Morgoth. He's not much compared to Ancalagon or Glaurung, but he's greater than Dragons of later generations like Scatha. The only thing Smaug says of his own origins is that "I laid low the warriors of old and their like is not in the world today. Then I was but young and tender. Now I am old and strong, strong, strong." To my mind, that is an explicit reference to him being alive during the First Age, and fighting in the battles of Beleriand. So it works for Dragons a bit like Elves- Smaug is the last "great" dragon, rather like Galadriel is the last "high" elf. Also, it makes for a decent comparison with Durin's Bane- there explicitly are other refugees from Angband living in Middle Earth.
@TheCountZopolai Your argument is very convincing but I see one major flaw in it. The math. I can imagine a dragon potentially taking several centuries to fully mature(Glaurong certainly required such in The Silmarillion), but it certainly does not take the full Second and Third Age for Smaug to mature. Since when he was described yet immature, it was in reference to his attacks on Dale and The Lonely Mountain.
@@jonathonfrazier6622 Yeah, I don't know if Tolkien meant for dragons to be immortal but even if they were very long lived, Smaug would be well over 6,000 years old by _The Hobbit_ yet still in his prime which seems like a stretch.
I found this very interesting thanks. There is another mention of the Withered Heath in the Hobbit when the Dwarves are singing around the fire their first night at Beorn's house "The wind was on the withered heath, But in the forest stirred no leaf: There shadows lay be night or day, And dark things silent crept beneath..." I think the whole poem is rather beautiful
I generally think "great dragons" refer to larger winged ones. And Smaug attacking alone is likely due to arrogance and the fact he can just travel that much faster
Tolkien is known for his likes of mystery --- "Some things remains unknown". The War of Wrath was a devastating conflict that sunk Beleriand. Surviving dragons fled eastward and settled in the Northern Waste before settling in the Withered Heath. The question is how large and big the Northern Waste? Tolkien didn't explicitly made a scale. But if we took Middle Earth large in comparison to Europe at the west-end, and eastward up to Iron Hills and all the way beyond Rhun like Russia to Siberia. Then the Northern Waste is ginormous in size. It could have houses a number of dragons and other foul things created by Morgoth that settled on it after the War of Wrath. I believed the east of Middle Earth also have dragons. Dragons like drakes and wyrms. Serpent-like dragons that became an iconic mythical creature for eastern civilizations. If there's actually some Asian-like society in the Far East. Anyway there were four dwarven clan that settled in the east. This are Ironfist, Stiffbeards, Blacklocks, and Stonefoots. What happened to them is unknown as Tolkien didn't write much about them beside they reside in the east of Rhun and they joined the dwarven clans during the Battle of Azanulbizar. This four dwarven clans may have encountered dragons on the region either further east or from the north. There's a lot of things that the world of Middle Earth remain a mystery. But that's the charm of a fantasy that holds untold riches and wonders.
We also know, that several of the Dwarven Rings of Power were destroyed by Dragonfire, and the math doesn't add up for this being solely in the Wester Clans. So the East must have dragons. Regarding the number of Dragons, Orks etc. in the Northern Waste, they seem to eat and need food, limiting their numbers in a region, that doesn't provide much.
I think during the tales of Turin and his kin .. Easterlings had taken control of much of middle earth and had enslaved their people , they are pretty clearly described as Asian. Akin to ancient peoples of the Steppe.
It's too bad we didn't get more about the northern lands - or perhaps not. I feel like a great deal is missing from the annals in RotK's appendices, which makes sense considering the framing device of the whole thing being Gondoran scribes annotating the Red Book of Westmarch. Another glaring example is that we have absolutely zero information concerning Legolas' mother; we can presume that he had one, but she is not mentioned anywhere, a fact that suggests that she isn't around at the time of the canon books, but we have no information concerning what might have happened to her.
People don't even live or go to that region as the dragons might be as huge as Smaug was. That's the reason why Erebor and the Iron Hills are so vulnerable to dragon attacks because they so close to Withered Heath.
Here's a potential topic for you why did the former Numenor colonies south of the Anduin become loyal to Sauron after Numenor was sunk when it was clear he was the one who was responsible for its destruction when he convinced them to attack Valinor.
Those colonies were mostly settled by King's Men, who had already become loyal to Sauron when Sauron was captured by Númenor and then proceeded to dominate Ar-Pharazôn and complete the corruption of Númenor.
@@istari0 then rephrase the question to ''why did they STAY loyal to Sauron after Numenor was sunk when it was clear he was the one who was responsible for its destruction when he convinced them to attack Valinor''. It still works.
@@DarthGandalfYT Thanks cause it always seemed strange, Sauron was effectively the prime minister of the Numenorian Empire at the time and people knew the invasion of Valinor was his idea and unlike in Numenor Sauron wasn't in Umbar able to brainwash the population, they knew he was a Maia so probably believed he knew the strength of Valinor which was probably what allowed them to believe they could attack Valinor, so why did they support the person who obviously sent their king on a suicide run and destroyed their homeland. Even if they were against Elendil taking the crown would that be enough reason to support Sauron? As I said seemed strange.
@@DraconimLt Sauron was a master of deception and manipulation even before he created the One Ring. In Númenor, he corrupted most of the population to the worship of Morgoth and I imagine that was also true in the Númenorean colonies to which you refer. I strongly suspect he was able to blame the downfall of Númenor on Ilúvatar, which did have an element of truth in it.
Wow, I thought I was the only one who had misread it as the "Withered Hearth". In my case, that was because reading "The Hobbit" as a kid, the word "hearth" was in my vocabulary and "heath" wasn't. It's also interesting that the Withered Heath is mentioned in a song the Dwarves sang in "The Hobbit" while they were staying in Beorn's house. "The wind was on the Withered Heath, Yet in the forest stirred no leaf, There shadows lay, both night and day, And dark things silent crept beneath."
I consider the dragon from 'farmer giles' to be a descendant of the earlier dragons, and that's set in the very early middle ages. So they lived till then but in a gradually reduced form, imo.
With the exception of Smaug, I suspect the other dragons were not incredibly dangerous, at least on their own. No mention is ever made of the great kingdoms of the north having to fight dragons in the 2nd and 3rd Ages until the War of the Dwarves and Dragons.
I personally pondered about the phrasing "last of the great dragons." Could it be that he was the last of the great dragons that where born? Like one of the "great" lineage, like Ancalagon, Glaurung or others? I reckon we still had fire drakes and cold drakes around at that time. And even some wyrms. Maybe "great" could hint on its lineage? Tolkien was obsessed with lineages - see the lineage of the elven or manish houses and how neat he constructed them. So couldnt it be also possible that he planned the same for the dragons?
Even with Smaug's demise, the untold number of Lesser Dragons that still existed up North was likely an issue of grave importance that the peoples of the West almost always have to have had a close eye on.
Probably if the Dragons liked to stick around the region it was smarted to just leave them be. A small region would be ill suited to host massive population growth due to resources limits (food), and attacking the place would just lead them to scatter into all manner of spots. Suddenly instead of one breeding ground there would be multiple regions with growing Dragon infestations.
I believe the last dragon of the heath was HR Pufnstuf. Who died on December 27 1969 of the 7th Age, after the heath had become an island due to sea level rise over the ages. Ironically he died alongside the last wizard/witch, sire of shelobe and drawf as the island sank beneath the sea. Thus ending the very last living traces of ancient magic in arda.
Speaking of dragons, I feel somewhat confident that George RR Martin most likely got his influence for the 'Old Valyria' from the Withered Heath, especially its link to the shadowy wasteland of what remains of the "Valyrian Freehold," as there's a lot of mystery behind this place, like the Heath itself; the only difference being climate, due to the Heath being ice cold and the wasteland of the former Freehold being volcanic...
Apart from the dragons, they are like opposites so it feels unlikely. A hot volcanic island that was the heart of a civilisation now left in ruins, vs a cold landlocked mountain range thats empty and wild. I know GRRM openly enjoys Tolkien and has talked about being inspired though
Darth, I hope you see this and can either respond to my question or make a video about the Halls of Mandos. Of those elves who remained in the third age, why did they continue to travel west when they could stay and fight Sauron? I might be looking at this stupidly, but since their spirits don’t die wouldn’t it have been a greater good to try and help men fight Sauron rather than sail west? And they can go to the Halls of Mandos if they happen to die? As I say I might be totally misunderstanding the whole concept of Mandos but I (through rose tinted glasses) envisage a load of berserker Elves fighting, knowing they can’t die spiritually. Cheers!
I think the main issue is the personal cost. Death is a traumatic experience, and the Halls of Mandos, along with being a place of judgement, are also a place of healing. Some Elves such as Glorfindel or Finrod got over their deaths fairly quickly, but others choose to never be re-embodied. So yes, while Elves could fight to the death against Sauron knowing that they will live again in Valinor, death and the trauma that follows isn't worth it for most of them.
The only dragon that we get to know at all in Tolkien's writings is Smaug, and he is very much an arrogant, selfish, immature, individual. If he is typical of dragons, then there is not much hope for the species. Fearsome, and dangerous to be certain, but fairly easily defeated in the end. No wonder the rest of the dragons are hiding in their lairs in the north.
I for one would love to hear the various stories and interesting concepts introduced by Lotr Online. They may not be canon, but any that are somewhat faithful to canon and your thoughts on them would be cool to hear.
The former servants of Morgoth were content to just sleep peacefully after the war of wrath but those bastard dwarves kept waking them up with the constant noise of their pickaxes. The dragons in the Grey Mountains and the Balrog in the Misty Mountains said enough is enough and restored the peace.
The dragons in Middle Earth have never made any sense to me. After the war of wrath they supposedly fled far away, but if they went to the gray mountains then they just crossed from Eriador to Rhovannion, not a huge distance as Middle Earth goes. If there is a moderate to large community of dragons in the mountains, then it seems like we should know more than two names, particularly since we know that dragons destroyed rings of power when they seized hordes of gold in places unknown. The destructiveness of Smaug, and his desire to lay waste to an entire region, does not jive with the other dragons, who were content to remain behind in the withered Heath, or at least the gray mountains, and do nothing that we've heard about, except for the hoard destructions. Dragons clearly don't work for Sauron and don't take his orders, but you'd think that if they were a half dozen or more in the withered Heath at the time of their maximum population, then at least one of them might also decide to fly off and start plundering stuff. The wood elves don't fear dragons other than Smaug, nor does Lorien, and no dragon ever flew south to parlay with their former master when he was based at Dol Guldur. At a minimum something should have happened when all the other dragons saw Smaug conquer Erebor. Galadriel might be able to defend Lorien, but a dragon could burn down Meduseld in an afternoon and go to sleep on top of Theoden's gold. But no, all the dragons are just hanging out on the heath for unspecified plot reasons.
No, the other dragons are not just hanging out for unspecified plot reasons. There is a very good reason for them to act differently: They are not on Smaug's power level at all. Smaug was the last great dragon, probably even the last fire-drake. Those other dragons were way less dangerous, unable to pose a threat like Smaug did. Smaug could destroy the dwarven kingdom of Erebor in a day and with ease, they could barely drove the dwarves out of the grey mountains and it took them 19 years.
Beleriand to Rhovannion. Eriador is about 700 miles across by itself. Keep in mind the tales are told by Elves or Men, to whom "far away" will mean something different than it would to winged dragons.
You would think,after millenia of experience with dragons, that the dwarves might have learned from their experiences. Yet they failed to learn one key lesson in terms of building their dwarven mansions. Stop making the goddamned doors opening big enough to allow a freaking dragon entry. Make them small and narrow with multiple twists and turns that no dragon can negotiate. Unfortunately, it seems that dwarven pride won't allow anything other than a giant set of doors capable of allowing an army in and out of, 30 abreast at least. I love the dwarves but sometimes they are pigheaded in the extreme. An equally foolhardy moment was allowing themselves to lose the art of making dragonproof armour. The dwarves truly were excellent at shooting themselves in the foot. 😊❤😊
Reminds me of the _Jurassic World_ scene in which they opened the huge dinosaur-sized doors to investigate the enclosure despite that taking a lot more time and electrical power instead of going through the human-sized side door.
I find the Grey Mountains fascinating. Two thoughts I had while watching: How did the dragons organize themselves for war? Were the treasures of the Dwarves really all it took to motivate them to come together as one force for the first time since the end of the First Age?
The dragon economy is gold based. I don't know why. Same reason as ours is I suppose. I picture dragons in the icy north buying calves and mammoths from other , more entrepreneurial dragons for dinner.
Through song, since the days of creations when Eru Illuvitar the main creator God of Tolkien's world taught his archangels the Valar how to sing things into creation. The music of the Ainur it is called, also another great instance of magic use was when Finrod fought Sauron.
It always weirds me out to think of Morgoth's sapient creatures, be they orcs, dragons, or otherwise, mating. And lest any get the wrong idea, I mean it's strange for me to think of beings seemingly incapable of affection partaking in an activity that one typically thinks of as involving affection.
Tolkien's dragons most likely reproduces via parthenogenesis meaning they didnt need to mate they just laid eggs. Like lone female komodo dragons are able to do. Orcs might as well chained up their women and used them for breeding like the Locusts in Gears of War do to their Berserkers. There is no love between mates since Tolkien was clear evil creatures are to remain evil and since love only comes from God well there is no love between them.
@@Tallacus While there is certainly no love between orcs, there can be at least a superficial sort of camaraderie between them, as shown by the conversation between the orc captains Shagrat and Gorbag that Sam overhears as the orcs take Frodo into the Tower of Cirith Ungol. Granted, that "friendship" was superficial at best, as Shagrat and Gorbag (and their respective orc forces) fought each other to the death mere hours later over Frodo's mithril shirt. That said, a similar sort of momentary shared interests could lead to mating between male and female orcs, obviously not with any sort of love involved in the process...
Middle earth mysteries idea “why was Smaug the last great dragon”
Last great dragon known to bother the people of Middle-earth at least.
The others were merely mediocre.
My pet theory is that Smaug was one of the last survivors of Angband, having fled the War of Wrath. So, in that sense, he is the last surviving "great" dragon, meaning the first generation of dragons bred by Morgoth. He's not much compared to Ancalagon or Glaurung, but he's greater than Dragons of later generations like Scatha.
The only thing Smaug says of his own origins is that "I laid low the warriors of old and their like is not in the world today. Then I was but young and tender. Now I am old and strong, strong, strong." To my mind, that is an explicit reference to him being alive during the First Age, and fighting in the battles of Beleriand.
So it works for Dragons a bit like Elves- Smaug is the last "great" dragon, rather like Galadriel is the last "high" elf. Also, it makes for a decent comparison with Durin's Bane- there explicitly are other refugees from Angband living in Middle Earth.
@TheCountZopolai Your argument is very convincing but I see one major flaw in it. The math. I can imagine a dragon potentially taking several centuries to fully mature(Glaurong certainly required such in The Silmarillion), but it certainly does not take the full Second and Third Age for Smaug to mature. Since when he was described yet immature, it was in reference to his attacks on Dale and The Lonely Mountain.
@@jonathonfrazier6622 Yeah, I don't know if Tolkien meant for dragons to be immortal but even if they were very long lived, Smaug would be well over 6,000 years old by _The Hobbit_ yet still in his prime which seems like a stretch.
I found this very interesting thanks. There is another mention of the Withered Heath in the Hobbit when the Dwarves are singing around the fire their first night at Beorn's house
"The wind was on the withered heath,
But in the forest stirred no leaf:
There shadows lay be night or day,
And dark things silent crept beneath..."
I think the whole poem is rather beautiful
Nice one. I did use a trusty Ctrl+F through the different books, but I must've missed that one.
Thank you for not having RIDICULOUSLY LOUD music that practically drowns out your voice. WAY too many Tolkien channels do exactly that.
I generally think "great dragons" refer to larger winged ones. And Smaug attacking alone is likely due to arrogance and the fact he can just travel that much faster
Or Uruloke which means they could breathe fire
I love the depiction on the map in The Hobbit
yea baby another updloadd
Y E S !
Heck yeah! You're still the best Tolkien youtuber out there :)
Tolkien is known for his likes of mystery --- "Some things remains unknown".
The War of Wrath was a devastating conflict that sunk Beleriand. Surviving dragons fled eastward and settled in the Northern Waste before settling in the Withered Heath.
The question is how large and big the Northern Waste?
Tolkien didn't explicitly made a scale. But if we took Middle Earth large in comparison to Europe at the west-end, and eastward up to Iron Hills and all the way beyond Rhun like Russia to Siberia. Then the Northern Waste is ginormous in size. It could have houses a number of dragons and other foul things created by Morgoth that settled on it after the War of Wrath.
I believed the east of Middle Earth also have dragons. Dragons like drakes and wyrms. Serpent-like dragons that became an iconic mythical creature for eastern civilizations. If there's actually some Asian-like society in the Far East. Anyway there were four dwarven clan that settled in the east. This are Ironfist, Stiffbeards, Blacklocks, and Stonefoots. What happened to them is unknown as Tolkien didn't write much about them beside they reside in the east of Rhun and they joined the dwarven clans during the Battle of Azanulbizar. This four dwarven clans may have encountered dragons on the region either further east or from the north.
There's a lot of things that the world of Middle Earth remain a mystery. But that's the charm of a fantasy that holds untold riches and wonders.
We also know, that several of the Dwarven Rings of Power were destroyed by Dragonfire, and the math doesn't add up for this being solely in the Wester Clans. So the East must have dragons.
Regarding the number of Dragons, Orks etc. in the Northern Waste, they seem to eat and need food, limiting their numbers in a region, that doesn't provide much.
I think during the tales of Turin and his kin .. Easterlings had taken control of much of middle earth and had enslaved their people , they are pretty clearly described as Asian. Akin to ancient peoples of the Steppe.
It's too bad we didn't get more about the northern lands - or perhaps not. I feel like a great deal is missing from the annals in RotK's appendices, which makes sense considering the framing device of the whole thing being Gondoran scribes annotating the Red Book of Westmarch. Another glaring example is that we have absolutely zero information concerning Legolas' mother; we can presume that he had one, but she is not mentioned anywhere, a fact that suggests that she isn't around at the time of the canon books, but we have no information concerning what might have happened to her.
Talk about roads, fords and bridges in Middle Earth
Now that's niche, but I am intrigued.
@@DarthGandalfYT :)
Assume its a nod to the Blasted Heath mentioned in MacBeth.
I wanna hear a video about the Unseen world, it's so fascinating
Sounds like a good topic for a movie.
People don't even live or go to that region as the dragons might be as huge as Smaug was. That's the reason why Erebor and the Iron Hills are so vulnerable to dragon attacks because they so close to Withered Heath.
What if Beleriand Never Sinks under the sea
We'll never know because you can't stop touching yourself at night
I love how LotRO deals with the area in the same way.
Here's a potential topic for you why did the former Numenor colonies south of the Anduin become loyal to Sauron after Numenor was sunk when it was clear he was the one who was responsible for its destruction when he convinced them to attack Valinor.
Those colonies were mostly settled by King's Men, who had already become loyal to Sauron when Sauron was captured by Númenor and then proceeded to dominate Ar-Pharazôn and complete the corruption of Númenor.
@@istari0 then rephrase the question to ''why did they STAY loyal to Sauron after Numenor was sunk when it was clear he was the one who was responsible for its destruction when he convinced them to attack Valinor''. It still works.
That's a nice idea. I do like talking about the Black Numenoreans whenever I can.
@@DarthGandalfYT Thanks cause it always seemed strange, Sauron was effectively the prime minister of the Numenorian Empire at the time and people knew the invasion of Valinor was his idea and unlike in Numenor Sauron wasn't in Umbar able to brainwash the population, they knew he was a Maia so probably believed he knew the strength of Valinor which was probably what allowed them to believe they could attack Valinor, so why did they support the person who obviously sent their king on a suicide run and destroyed their homeland. Even if they were against Elendil taking the crown would that be enough reason to support Sauron? As I said seemed strange.
@@DraconimLt Sauron was a master of deception and manipulation even before he created the One Ring. In Númenor, he corrupted most of the population to the worship of Morgoth and I imagine that was also true in the Númenorean colonies to which you refer. I strongly suspect he was able to blame the downfall of Númenor on Ilúvatar, which did have an element of truth in it.
7:57 wonder if the dwarves reclaimed mount Gundaband after Moria
I believe they did but not until sometime in the 4th Age.
Hi Darth!
Order be praised!
Wow, I thought I was the only one who had misread it as the "Withered Hearth". In my case, that was because reading "The Hobbit" as a kid, the word "hearth" was in my vocabulary and "heath" wasn't. It's also interesting that the Withered Heath is mentioned in a song the Dwarves sang in "The Hobbit" while they were staying in Beorn's house.
"The wind was on the Withered Heath,
Yet in the forest stirred no leaf,
There shadows lay, both night and day,
And dark things silent crept beneath."
I consider the dragon from 'farmer giles' to be a descendant of the earlier dragons, and that's set in the very early middle ages. So they lived till then but in a gradually reduced form, imo.
With the exception of Smaug, I suspect the other dragons were not incredibly dangerous, at least on their own. No mention is ever made of the great kingdoms of the north having to fight dragons in the 2nd and 3rd Ages until the War of the Dwarves and Dragons.
I personally pondered about the phrasing "last of the great dragons." Could it be that he was the last of the great dragons that where born? Like one of the "great" lineage, like Ancalagon, Glaurung or others? I reckon we still had fire drakes and cold drakes around at that time. And even some wyrms. Maybe "great" could hint on its lineage? Tolkien was obsessed with lineages - see the lineage of the elven or manish houses and how neat he constructed them. So couldnt it be also possible that he planned the same for the dragons?
Even with Smaug's demise, the untold number of Lesser Dragons that still existed up North was likely an issue of grave importance that the peoples of the West almost always have to have had a close eye on.
Probably if the Dragons liked to stick around the region it was smarted to just leave them be. A small region would be ill suited to host massive population growth due to resources limits (food), and attacking the place would just lead them to scatter into all manner of spots. Suddenly instead of one breeding ground there would be multiple regions with growing Dragon infestations.
Id been keen to hear the more common topics too
I believe the last dragon of the heath was HR Pufnstuf. Who died on December 27 1969 of the 7th Age, after the heath had become an island due to sea level rise over the ages. Ironically he died alongside the last wizard/witch, sire of shelobe and drawf as the island sank beneath the sea. Thus ending the very last living traces of ancient magic in arda.
Speaking of dragons, I feel somewhat confident that George RR Martin most likely got his influence for the 'Old Valyria' from the Withered Heath, especially its link to the shadowy wasteland of what remains of the "Valyrian Freehold," as there's a lot of mystery behind this place, like the Heath itself; the only difference being climate, due to the Heath being ice cold and the wasteland of the former Freehold being volcanic...
Apart from the dragons, they are like opposites so it feels unlikely.
A hot volcanic island that was the heart of a civilisation now left in ruins, vs a cold landlocked mountain range thats empty and wild.
I know GRRM openly enjoys Tolkien and has talked about being inspired though
George R. R. Martin's main influence for Old Valyria was Melniboné, the Dragonlord Island Empire from the Elric novels by Michael Moorcock.
@@theDoctorwitTardis Oh yea, with that Elric guy.
@@theDoctorwitTardis Seems very clear. Has Martin actually acknowledged it?
Darth, I hope you see this and can either respond to my question or make a video about the Halls of Mandos.
Of those elves who remained in the third age, why did they continue to travel west when they could stay and fight Sauron? I might be looking at this stupidly, but since their spirits don’t die wouldn’t it have been a greater good to try and help men fight Sauron rather than sail west? And they can go to the Halls of Mandos if they happen to die? As I say I might be totally misunderstanding the whole concept of Mandos but I (through rose tinted glasses) envisage a load of berserker Elves fighting, knowing they can’t die spiritually. Cheers!
I think the main issue is the personal cost. Death is a traumatic experience, and the Halls of Mandos, along with being a place of judgement, are also a place of healing. Some Elves such as Glorfindel or Finrod got over their deaths fairly quickly, but others choose to never be re-embodied. So yes, while Elves could fight to the death against Sauron knowing that they will live again in Valinor, death and the trauma that follows isn't worth it for most of them.
@@DarthGandalfYT they’re a bit selfish aren’t they
The only dragon that we get to know at all in Tolkien's writings is Smaug, and he is very much an arrogant, selfish, immature, individual. If he is typical of dragons, then there is not much hope for the species. Fearsome, and dangerous to be certain, but fairly easily defeated in the end. No wonder the rest of the dragons are hiding in their lairs in the north.
I for one would love to hear the various stories and interesting concepts introduced by Lotr Online. They may not be canon, but any that are somewhat faithful to canon and your thoughts on them would be cool to hear.
What game is being shown in this video? The one with the animated dragon
Hey DG, are you gonna make a review on RoP, would really like to get your take on it
Hopefuly not, let that corpo fanfic dung heap rot in silence ...
Can you do islands of Himring tol Fuin, and tol Morwin
Have you played the lord of the rings mode for Crusader king 3
I highly recommended it
There were no dragons, as we identify them, at that time to assist Smaug, not to mention no force unifying them
Heath Richards
Plot twist: the Withered Heath is Utumno.
The former servants of Morgoth were content to just sleep peacefully after the war of wrath but those bastard dwarves kept waking them up with the constant noise of their pickaxes. The dragons in the Grey Mountains and the Balrog in the Misty Mountains said enough is enough and restored the peace.
The dragons in Middle Earth have never made any sense to me. After the war of wrath they supposedly fled far away, but if they went to the gray mountains then they just crossed from Eriador to Rhovannion, not a huge distance as Middle Earth goes.
If there is a moderate to large community of dragons in the mountains, then it seems like we should know more than two names, particularly since we know that dragons destroyed rings of power when they seized hordes of gold in places unknown.
The destructiveness of Smaug, and his desire to lay waste to an entire region, does not jive with the other dragons, who were content to remain behind in the withered Heath, or at least the gray mountains, and do nothing that we've heard about, except for the hoard destructions.
Dragons clearly don't work for Sauron and don't take his orders, but you'd think that if they were a half dozen or more in the withered Heath at the time of their maximum population, then at least one of them might also decide to fly off and start plundering stuff.
The wood elves don't fear dragons other than Smaug, nor does Lorien, and no dragon ever flew south to parlay with their former master when he was based at Dol Guldur.
At a minimum something should have happened when all the other dragons saw Smaug conquer Erebor. Galadriel might be able to defend Lorien, but a dragon could burn down Meduseld in an afternoon and go to sleep on top of Theoden's gold.
But no, all the dragons are just hanging out on the heath for unspecified plot reasons.
No, the other dragons are not just hanging out for unspecified plot reasons. There is a very good reason for them to act differently: They are not on Smaug's power level at all. Smaug was the last great dragon, probably even the last fire-drake.
Those other dragons were way less dangerous, unable to pose a threat like Smaug did. Smaug could destroy the dwarven kingdom of Erebor in a day and with ease, they could barely drove the dwarves out of the grey mountains and it took them 19 years.
Beleriand to Rhovannion. Eriador is about 700 miles across by itself. Keep in mind the tales are told by Elves or Men, to whom "far away" will mean something different than it would to winged dragons.
You would think,after millenia of experience with dragons, that the dwarves might have learned from their experiences. Yet they failed to learn one key lesson in terms of building their dwarven mansions. Stop making the goddamned doors opening big enough to allow a freaking dragon entry. Make them small and narrow with multiple twists and turns that no dragon can negotiate. Unfortunately, it seems that dwarven pride won't allow anything other than a giant set of doors capable of allowing an army in and out of, 30 abreast at least. I love the dwarves but sometimes they are pigheaded in the extreme.
An equally foolhardy moment was allowing themselves to lose the art of making dragonproof armour.
The dwarves truly were excellent at shooting themselves in the foot. 😊❤😊
Reminds me of the _Jurassic World_ scene in which they opened the huge dinosaur-sized doors to investigate the enclosure despite that taking a lot more time and electrical power instead of going through the human-sized side door.
@@dlxmarks Probably because men are as thoughtless as dwarves 😂😂😂
Big doors are pretty damned cool. Maybe a giant axe on the inside for beheading dragons. Best of both worlds.
Just potentially noticed something; are all the dragons we know that were slain, slain by men?
Eärendil the Mariner had taken the choice to be an elf before the War of Wrath where he helped to slay Ancalagon the Black.
@@tominiowa2513 ah fair enough
I find the Grey Mountains fascinating. Two thoughts I had while watching: How did the dragons organize themselves for war? Were the treasures of the Dwarves really all it took to motivate them to come together as one force for the first time since the end of the First Age?
The dragon economy is gold based. I don't know why. Same reason as ours is I suppose. I picture dragons in the icy north buying calves and mammoths from other , more entrepreneurial dragons for dinner.
How does magic work in lord of the rings?
Through song, since the days of creations when Eru Illuvitar the main creator God of Tolkien's world taught his archangels the Valar how to sing things into creation. The music of the Ainur it is called, also another great instance of magic use was when Finrod fought Sauron.
dragons were not servants of morgoth or sauron.
In the Grey Mountains, "Drag shows" hit different
Once in a lifetime experience (unless you get lucky 😆).
So don't go hiking or camping there 🙂.
Withered heath is glup shitto😂
Legendary reference.
It always weirds me out to think of Morgoth's sapient creatures, be they orcs, dragons, or otherwise, mating.
And lest any get the wrong idea, I mean it's strange for me to think of beings seemingly incapable of affection partaking in an activity that one typically thinks of as involving affection.
Tolkien's dragons most likely reproduces via parthenogenesis meaning they didnt need to mate they just laid eggs. Like lone female komodo dragons are able to do.
Orcs might as well chained up their women and used them for breeding like the Locusts in Gears of War do to their Berserkers. There is no love between mates since Tolkien was clear evil creatures are to remain evil and since love only comes from God well there is no love between them.
@@Tallacus While there is certainly no love between orcs, there can be at least a superficial sort of camaraderie between them, as shown by the conversation between the orc captains Shagrat and Gorbag that Sam overhears as the orcs take Frodo into the Tower of Cirith Ungol. Granted, that "friendship" was superficial at best, as Shagrat and Gorbag (and their respective orc forces) fought each other to the death mere hours later over Frodo's mithril shirt. That said, a similar sort of momentary shared interests could lead to mating between male and female orcs, obviously not with any sort of love involved in the process...
Weenus
true