Doing this for Mordor would be a great video too, the Morgai Mountains, Ered Lithui, and Ephel Dúath, Imlad Morgûl, Nan Ungol, Udûn, Gorgoroth, Nurn, Eastern Desolation, Vale of Fellbeasts, and the Black Lands in between.
@@easytiger6570 true, at least the rivers create wetlands where they meet the Sea of Nurnen and create Riverside ecosystems, its still a land rich in ashen and salty soils beyond the rivers so its only mildly more fertile than the rest of Mordor, plus its often depicted as a semi-arid region overall. Im working on a project for realistic Orc Cuisine by region, using the most likely real world species' of flora, fauna, and fungi to be found in each region, its a vast project but fun designing a realistic Orcish Culinary Culture.
Since you're doing Gondor's environs, you should do a video on the various regions of Gondor's late kin Kingdom, Arnor, as well as more videos on Arnor in general.
It's a little harder for Arnor because its sub-regions are never defined and described in the same way that Gondor's are, but I'm sure I could put something together.
Wonderful video! It's odd to imagine that so much fertile prime real estate stayed uninhabited for so long, but that's Tolkien to you. Thank you for the video :)
Following the War of the Last Alliance, Mordor itself was garrisoned and patrolled by Gondor. It's interesting to note that there was no mention of them having an effect on the Land of Nurn, which no doubt prior was populated by slaves of Sauron. It would have stood to reason that Gondor was at least aware of these people, yet until King Elessar, there's no mention of them. Thanks for another excellent vid DF ! :)
One way I always use to visualize Gondor quite accurately is by using Tolkien's own instructions in the map annotated for Pauline Baynes, where the professor establishes the latitude of regions of Middle-earth compared to those of Europe. There are some maps that superimpose the map of Middle-earth over that of Europe with Tolkien's specifications. If you want to visualize what the landscape of Gondor would look like, just look for images of Italy landscape or Tuscany landscape. I really get relatively bothered when some people believe that the landscape of South Gondor (Harondor) is a desert or that it is an arid region. The latitude of this region is the same as that of South Italy, which makes a lot of sense to me too, South Gondor = South Italy. If you want to visualize this region of Gondor, look for images of the landscape of South Italy. Finally, something I would really like to talk to Tolkien about if I had the chance would be about the absence of so many cities, towns and roads that would be completely possible to exist in a sophisticated and civilized kingdom like Gondor, especially in the westernmost regions of the country, which makes no sense at all to be a great wilderness, which makes me think of two possibilities: 1) They are there, but Tolkien did not bother to put their names on the map because the main characters did not pass through that region or they do not stand out in the great plot of the story. 2) They fell into ruins and disappeared with the centuries of decadence, war, plague and depopulation that Gondor faced and perhaps they would appear on the map if this were a map of Middle-earth during the Golden Age of Gondor and not at the end of the Third Age.
Nice thoughts. I think the west is not urbanized simply because It's a frontier where anyone disagreeing can simply move so there are no effective means of coercion from any attempts at centralizing. There's also no threat from there so very little incentive for Gondor to set up garrisons of any sort. There could be more of an iron age type patchwork of chieftans running things in Anfalas. One must suppose some sort of cooperation is in place regarding countering the corsairs. But the inland is just frontier wild west herders. I mean look at the euroasian steppe, that place has always been populated, just not with cities.
8:49 i love how the armour from the ethir anduin looks like a mix of haradrim and gondorian styles with the red and gold highlights. I really wish we could see more of the cultural differences within the regions of gondor in tolkien media, and how the surrounding peoples shaped and were shaped by gondor.
As an American who lives in France, I found the intro so funny. I've never been to Paris, so the Eiffel tower didn't at all come to mind. I think you are very right, but it was a funny thought. I think most French would think primarily of NYC and the statue of liberty.
I'm absolutely desperate for a Bellakar video. I know it's not Canon but nobody's covering this kind of stuff anywhere, I'm absolutely desperate. I'm so sick of reading PDFs. Also, I always imagined Lamedon going much farther west including the veil of Morthond
Wonderful stuff, thank you. A little peeved that you left out that Faithful Forlong gave up his life defending Minas Tirith. I have solidarity with old fat people since I am one. Cheers!
I'm just wondering what both current Gondor and Gondor at it's height would equal to in todays countries as the former province of Calenharden (Rohan) was approximately the size of England, Wales and some of Scotland. Clearly not USA, China or Russia size but clearly still a large area maybe Afghanistan size at its height? While more German size in the late third age?
It's probably more Byzantium at it's Makedonian height by the late third age (modern day Turkey and the Eastern Balkans) and more equivalent in size to western and central Europe at its height tbf.
Minas Tirith's immediate food supply is from the Pelennor Fields, called "townlands". These are a farming region defended by a wall, the Rammas Echor. On the map they look to be about 150 square miles or 726,000 acres. A common modern computation is 2.5 acres to feed one person. So that's enough for nearly 300,000 people, probably far more than there actually are. Of course, the farming methods might not be as productive, e.g. no modern fertilisers and plenty of draught animals to feed, but I think Tolkien has this angle covered.
@@pwmiles56 ah okay that makes sense. I think my train of thought on the pelennor fields was more it looked like a grassland or parade ground from the movie not farmland. Or at least it didn't look like tilled Farmland that was in use, even in between seasons.
Whoops, I got the conversion wrong. A square mile is 640 acres so 96,000 acres, enough for 38,400 people. Estimates vary but 2.5 acres per person seems a reasonable guide to pre-industrial populations. So possibly there are bulk imports, e.g. grain, needed from other regions.
I think a better metaphor would be when foreigners think of the United States. They immediately think of New York and La when in truth most of the people in the United States have never even been to those cities. That is a better comparison to the capital of Gondor getting all the attention not comparing it to a single monument, corporation, or tourist location
What about Dorwinion? I recall on some of your maps that Dorwinion was at one time claimed by Gondor. I wonder what it was like! On a similar note, how did some of these outer regions change in the Reunited Kingdom?
Hi Darth! I wonder how the presence of Beleriand changed the climate of the rest of Middle Earth. Did the areas that would become Gondor and Mordor look exactly the same, or was it only after the sinking of Beleriand that they took shape.
If you have a copy of the Atlas of Middle-Earth, check it out. It's probably the best overall resource for depictions of its geography and shows that there were lands as far south as being next to Andrast that sank.
Interesting how Anfalas is known as the Langstrand, literally Long Beach in Swedish. I love these little clues Tolkien made referencing real-world languages in his world.
What about Druwaith Iaur ? it's literally surrounded on all sides by other Gondorian Regions. Also considering how valuable land is I think many people would have settled these regions over the centuries even without "official colonizing" by the State.
I'm intrigued by the mouths of Entwash, where it flows into Anduin, forming the Wetwang marshes aka Nindalf. This region is marked on the ROTK map as still belonging to Gondor. It seems quite strategic -- does anyone live there?
Kinda does, though not completely. The west and east got hit by a massive plague and the west ate horrible winters right after. Agricultural societies also aren't really comparable to industrial societies in population. Add that Sauron hated the realms in exile and was deliberately seeking their destruction, and things begin to add up. Terrible plague and winter, constant war including a civil war, pirates on the southern coast. People likely moved towards the safety of central provinces leaving sections abandoned. The bit that doesn't add up to me is, why weren't these areas better fortified to prevent the loss? Costal defences and a warning system for pirate raids would have gone a long way to helping them grow. Gondor once had a powerful navy true so maybe it wasn't considered important till late in the game. But fortresses and safe places for population in times of danger isn't as hard as it sounds. Most castles were made of wood IRL, and numinorians were excellent craftsmen for their race.
It says it in the "Rivers and Beacon-hills of Gondor", which could be found in #42 of Vinyar Tengwar, but fortunately it was also published into Nature of Middle-earth.
Please doa rework of the vid. "The Third Age of Middle-earth - A Map of Nations" perhaps you can go into a more indepth look what Gondor lost etc. Perhaps a History of Gondor Video too?
@@blueshit199 I will keep commenting about it until we get the video, i know Lostladen from the LOTR Legacy Edition Mod for MC by Mevans, the map has Lostladen just under Mordor with Harrondor and Harnennor to the west, khand to the east, and semi-desert and after that the great desert of near harad going south, some other places mention it and places near it like The Nargûl Vale in the southern mountains of shadow that acts as a pass for Orc, Variags, and Haradrim, its an interesting place the more fragments you find on it.
@@crowverra5343 that is interesting, and me myself I also entertained the idea of an open strip of land in the south of Mordor, allowing for trades and peoples (mostly slaves) to be shipped across Nurnen, also because I really love the idea of an inland sea in the midst of Mordor's shadow
When i think of France i think of Occitanian Castles on top of lush hills and sprawling stone villages. If you are still thinking of Paris as a representation of France in 2024 you haven't been paying attention.
"Langstrand" is literally German, with the exact same letters. Of course it also means long beach. In todays time we would say "Langer Strand" so 2 words instead of one.
Doing this for Mordor would be a great video too, the Morgai Mountains, Ered Lithui, and Ephel Dúath, Imlad Morgûl, Nan Ungol, Udûn, Gorgoroth, Nurn, Eastern Desolation, Vale of Fellbeasts, and the Black Lands in between.
Nurn being larger than all others combined
@@easytiger6570 true, at least the rivers create wetlands where they meet the Sea of Nurnen and create Riverside ecosystems, its still a land rich in ashen and salty soils beyond the rivers so its only mildly more fertile than the rest of Mordor, plus its often depicted as a semi-arid region overall.
Im working on a project for realistic Orc Cuisine by region, using the most likely real world species' of flora, fauna, and fungi to be found in each region, its a vast project but fun designing a realistic Orcish Culinary Culture.
As the Prince of Dol Amroth, I approve of this video
As a mayor of a town in Eriador, I approve of this approval
As King of Men and Dark Lord, I approve of the aforementioned approval's approval.
As Tom Bombadil, I laugh and laugh
Since you're doing Gondor's environs, you should do a video on the various regions of Gondor's late kin Kingdom, Arnor, as well as more videos on Arnor in general.
Darth already has several Arnor videos.
@@Avalozir My bad, I remember he has an Arnor playlist.
@@SirBolsón No prob.
Arnor is IMHO the more interesting of the two kingdoms so more videos on the topic is always better.
@@Avalozir Similar to the dynamic between the Western-Roman and Eastern-Roman empire(s).
It's a little harder for Arnor because its sub-regions are never defined and described in the same way that Gondor's are, but I'm sure I could put something together.
Wonderful video! It's odd to imagine that so much fertile prime real estate stayed uninhabited for so long, but that's Tolkien to you. Thank you for the video :)
Following the War of the Last Alliance, Mordor itself was garrisoned and patrolled by Gondor. It's interesting to note that there was no mention of them having an effect on the Land of Nurn, which no doubt prior was populated by slaves of Sauron. It would have stood to reason that Gondor was at least aware of these people, yet until King Elessar, there's no mention of them.
Thanks for another excellent vid DF ! :)
A new Darth Gandalf video thats 17 minutes long? Lets go
One way I always use to visualize Gondor quite accurately is by using Tolkien's own instructions in the map annotated for Pauline Baynes, where the professor establishes the latitude of regions of Middle-earth compared to those of Europe. There are some maps that superimpose the map of Middle-earth over that of Europe with Tolkien's specifications.
If you want to visualize what the landscape of Gondor would look like, just look for images of Italy landscape or Tuscany landscape. I really get relatively bothered when some people believe that the landscape of South Gondor (Harondor) is a desert or that it is an arid region. The latitude of this region is the same as that of South Italy, which makes a lot of sense to me too, South Gondor = South Italy. If you want to visualize this region of Gondor, look for images of the landscape of South Italy.
Finally, something I would really like to talk to Tolkien about if I had the chance would be about the absence of so many cities, towns and roads that would be completely possible to exist in a sophisticated and civilized kingdom like Gondor, especially in the westernmost regions of the country, which makes no sense at all to be a great wilderness, which makes me think of two possibilities:
1) They are there, but Tolkien did not bother to put their names on the map because the main characters did not pass through that region or they do not stand out in the great plot of the story.
2) They fell into ruins and disappeared with the centuries of decadence, war, plague and depopulation that Gondor faced and perhaps they would appear on the map if this were a map of Middle-earth during the Golden Age of Gondor and not at the end of the Third Age.
Nice thoughts. I think the west is not urbanized simply because It's a frontier where anyone disagreeing can simply move so there are no effective means of coercion from any attempts at centralizing. There's also no threat from there so very little incentive for Gondor to set up garrisons of any sort. There could be more of an iron age type patchwork of chieftans running things in Anfalas. One must suppose some sort of cooperation is in place regarding countering the corsairs. But the inland is just frontier wild west herders. I mean look at the euroasian steppe, that place has always been populated, just not with cities.
Amazing video as always Darth!!
8:49 i love how the armour from the ethir anduin looks like a mix of haradrim and gondorian styles with the red and gold highlights. I really wish we could see more of the cultural differences within the regions of gondor in tolkien media, and how the surrounding peoples shaped and were shaped by gondor.
Best video youve done in a while (not like the others have been bad, this one is just particularly good)
As an American who lives in France, I found the intro so funny. I've never been to Paris, so the Eiffel tower didn't at all come to mind. I think you are very right, but it was a funny thought. I think most French would think primarily of NYC and the statue of liberty.
I'm absolutely desperate for a Bellakar video. I know it's not Canon but nobody's covering this kind of stuff anywhere, I'm absolutely desperate. I'm so sick of reading PDFs. Also, I always imagined Lamedon going much farther west including the veil of Morthond
Desperate? Calm down
Great video, Gondor is captivating. I really wanna see a video like this but about Arnor!
Another great video!
Wonderful stuff, thank you. A little peeved that you left out that Faithful Forlong gave up his life defending Minas Tirith. I have solidarity with old fat people since I am one. Cheers!
I'm just wondering what both current Gondor and Gondor at it's height would equal to in todays countries as the former province of Calenharden (Rohan) was approximately the size of England, Wales and some of Scotland. Clearly not USA, China or Russia size but clearly still a large area maybe Afghanistan size at its height? While more German size in the late third age?
It's probably more Byzantium at it's Makedonian height by the late third age (modern day Turkey and the Eastern Balkans) and more equivalent in size to western and central Europe at its height tbf.
Where is the main crop land for Gondor? Or might there be several food producing regions? Maybe it was in the video, but I missed it.
Minas Tirith's immediate food supply is from the Pelennor Fields, called "townlands". These are a farming region defended by a wall, the Rammas Echor. On the map they look to be about 150 square miles or 726,000 acres. A common modern computation is 2.5 acres to feed one person. So that's enough for nearly 300,000 people, probably far more than there actually are. Of course, the farming methods might not be as productive, e.g. no modern fertilisers and plenty of draught animals to feed, but I think Tolkien has this angle covered.
@@pwmiles56 ah okay that makes sense. I think my train of thought on the pelennor fields was more it looked like a grassland or parade ground from the movie not farmland. Or at least it didn't look like tilled Farmland that was in use, even in between seasons.
Whoops, I got the conversion wrong. A square mile is 640 acres so 96,000 acres, enough for 38,400 people. Estimates vary but 2.5 acres per person seems a reasonable guide to pre-industrial populations. So possibly there are bulk imports, e.g. grain, needed from other regions.
I think a better metaphor would be when foreigners think of the United States. They immediately think of New York and La when in truth most of the people in the United States have never even been to those cities. That is a better comparison to the capital of Gondor getting all the attention not comparing it to a single monument, corporation, or tourist location
Great overview and I know what you mean about writing out a script and not realizing how long it'll take do get through a whole paragraph.
A very nice geographical overview of Gondor! I sense a new series in the works: Mordor, Shire, Arnor, Beleriand, Valinor?
did we get an East Bight video yet?
What about Dorwinion? I recall on some of your maps that Dorwinion was at one time claimed by Gondor. I wonder what it was like!
On a similar note, how did some of these outer regions change in the Reunited Kingdom?
Hi Darth!
I wonder how the presence of Beleriand changed the climate of the rest of Middle Earth. Did the areas that would become Gondor and Mordor look exactly the same, or was it only after the sinking of Beleriand that they took shape.
If you have a copy of the Atlas of Middle-Earth, check it out. It's probably the best overall resource for depictions of its geography and shows that there were lands as far south as being next to Andrast that sank.
Excellent video! I wonder how the reunited kingdom ended up looking like geopolitically once Aragorn was well into his reign.
Interesting how Anfalas is known as the Langstrand, literally Long Beach in Swedish. I love these little clues Tolkien made referencing real-world languages in his world.
An interesting reminder that we really don't have much information about the western lands of Gondor.
When the pyres were lit, how many came from each of Gondors regions?
What about Druwaith Iaur ? it's literally surrounded on all sides by other Gondorian Regions.
Also considering how valuable land is I think many people would have settled these regions over the centuries even without "official colonizing" by the State.
Did you use the image from the mount and blade lotr mod for for Pelagir? :)
Did I miss it, or did you not cover the Drúwaith Iaur and the lands between the Isen and the Ered Nimrais?
Noticed that too, Druwaith is literally surrounded by other Gondorian regions in this video.
I'm intrigued by the mouths of Entwash, where it flows into Anduin, forming the Wetwang marshes aka Nindalf. This region is marked on the ROTK map as still belonging to Gondor. It seems quite strategic -- does anyone live there?
@@pwmiles56 Ogres in Nindalf from my research, they aren't really good or evil.
population of Gondor?
never made sense how small the population was in western Gondor
Kinda does, though not completely. The west and east got hit by a massive plague and the west ate horrible winters right after. Agricultural societies also aren't really comparable to industrial societies in population. Add that Sauron hated the realms in exile and was deliberately seeking their destruction, and things begin to add up. Terrible plague and winter, constant war including a civil war, pirates on the southern coast. People likely moved towards the safety of central provinces leaving sections abandoned. The bit that doesn't add up to me is, why weren't these areas better fortified to prevent the loss? Costal defences and a warning system for pirate raids would have gone a long way to helping them grow. Gondor once had a powerful navy true so maybe it wasn't considered important till late in the game. But fortresses and safe places for population in times of danger isn't as hard as it sounds. Most castles were made of wood IRL, and numinorians were excellent craftsmen for their race.
There was a beacon at the end of the cape of Andrast? Where does it say that?
@@foglet1 Ras Morthil
It says it in the "Rivers and Beacon-hills of Gondor", which could be found in #42 of Vinyar Tengwar, but fortunately it was also published into Nature of Middle-earth.
When I think of France I think of Baguettes 🥖
Please doa rework of the vid. "The Third Age of Middle-earth - A Map of Nations" perhaps you can go into a more indepth look what Gondor lost etc. Perhaps a History of Gondor Video too?
Still waiting for the Lostladen Video, I know its a scanty mentioned region even outside canon, just don't mistake it for Lithlad 🤣🤣🤣
funny, this is the second time I hear about Lostladen, and the second time this month lol
@@blueshit199 I will keep commenting about it until we get the video, i know Lostladen from the LOTR Legacy Edition Mod for MC by Mevans, the map has Lostladen just under Mordor with Harrondor and Harnennor to the west, khand to the east, and semi-desert and after that the great desert of near harad going south, some other places mention it and places near it like The Nargûl Vale in the southern mountains of shadow that acts as a pass for Orc, Variags, and Haradrim, its an interesting place the more fragments you find on it.
@@crowverra5343 that is interesting, and me myself I also entertained the idea of an open strip of land in the south of Mordor, allowing for trades and peoples (mostly slaves) to be shipped across Nurnen, also because I really love the idea of an inland sea in the midst of Mordor's shadow
This video was incredibly helpful, as I've always found it very difficult to visualize what the regions of Gondor are and how the kingdom works.
When i think of France i think of Occitanian Castles on top of lush hills and sprawling stone villages.
If you are still thinking of Paris as a representation of France in 2024 you haven't been paying attention.
0:26 cough cough.. I'm sure you meant to say Notre Dame..
Calenardhon, the ‘dh’ has a ‘th’ sound like ‘thorn’
Nice
If I was a Gondorian, I would have settled in the Anfalas or the Andrast.
more
Langstrand is just Lång Strand, without the funny Å letter, and it just translates to Long Beach, sneaky Tolkien
Quite a neat joke that.
"Langstrand" is literally German, with the exact same letters. Of course it also means long beach. In todays time we would say "Langer Strand" so 2 words instead of one.
@@thejohnson2328 did not know that, my high school German has failed me yet again
@@Badzarely haha No worries! Same for longsword for example (Langschwert)
I see the province of lebeninn as Gondors version of the reach in GOT
Yooo 💜💙💚💛🧡❤️
"Thought of the Eifel tower"
Me, thinking about Napoleon waving a white flag...
(I know its a meme, France has epic military history)
First 🙃and maybe a video on Andrast lool.
nah - second, and im third :D
Nice try but I got it this time 🍶🍶🍶✌️✌️✌️
Belfalas Man
I put the chances of Tolfolas being uninhabited at roughly 0% lol. It is way too large and in a decent climate for people not to live there
No, when you said France I sadly got an image of bug ridden matraces in Marseille and migrants…
When I picture the US, it's where all the fucking trees used to be. Treebeard had a right to be mad.