Huge lift on this episode but I think its our best yet! What should we cover next? ✅ Install Raid for Free Mobile and PC: clik.cc/iVy8o and get a special starter pack with an Epic champion Drake 🎉 💥Check out Raid’s new limited animated series Call of the Arbiter here: ua-cam.com/video/H32dvyCVkfk/v-deo.html&pp=iAQB
do a video on the chorasmian kingdom north of bactria. i remember the greeks expecting wild scythians and getting an organzied kingdom that tried to diplomatically turn alexander back. or maybe investigate the settled scythians like the budini and their connection to the proto-slavic groups?
Loved your videos since day one when you did Adrianople back in 2016, along with Kings and Generals channel with the others... keep up the great work you guys & everyone over there. 👍✔ I'm looking forward to all that you have up next in the works... along with what comes up in many ideas next with Total War Pharaoh. 😎😉 Ideas: The rise of the Egyptian New Kingdom & pre history of the old & middle kingdoms leading up to it all. Wars between Egypt & Nubia over rivalries & gold mines there. The rise & fall of the Hittites & their military conflicts with Egypt & others. Troy! = rise and fall periods & history. The two Pre-classic Greek civilizations in rise & fall. Assyria = from beginning till end. Babylonia = from start to finish The Canaanites = from pre-history about them to Egypt, Moses + David & Goliath till Solomon & more. The sea peoples = everything we know & can guess about their origins The book of the dead, Ani's version & others about them & the afterlife. Construction of the great pyramids all throughout & history in uses. Tutankhamun = early to end of life & background info. Ramses the 2nd's whole life & battle of Kadesh till later life in death. Valley of the kings & their tombs. Egyptian hieroglyphs & meanings Early trade between Egypt, land of Punt and other civilizations throughout the bronze age. Beginning & end of the Bronze Age. Evolution & size of the Egyptian armies and other bronze age civilizations & militaries. Great cities of the bronze age from beginning to end, and especially those of Egypt throughout. The golden age of Egypt & developments from back then going on. History of the Nile river in Egypt & agriculture in rich farming land. The best & worst Pharaohs of ancient Egypt known. The priests of Egypt & religions Ptolemy Egypt from beginning till end in history background information Egyptian Scarab & meanings in luck & afterlife. Ancient Egyptian diplomacy & invasions by other peoples into the land of the Pharaohs... and how they dealt with it all. Hope you enjoyed for notes of this in writing down for possible future videos for 2024 onwards after Total War Pharaohs' release... and there's plenty more in ideas I have where that all came from = a decade's worth in the making in my thoughts. If you wish to contact me in future support for one another in further vids in basic ideas for your end, just reply and I will respond asap! I'm always around for your vids... so we can look out for one another in requests that will make even greater content for all who love classic history & more. P.S: Please don't make any Bronze age content in vids about it all till after looking up everything there is about Total War Pharaoh in game, units & more upon post release, for accuracy & more to make the vids even more out of them. 👌 DLCs too.
Or even more impressive would be the true size of Alexander’s army in contrast to the truly gigantic Achaemenid forces that were strategically outmaneuvered, on what, at least three (?) HUGE engagements
Alexander had about 50,000 men at the start of the campaign.. 47 thousand at the battle of gaugamela. 40k infantry and 7k calvary. This is minus camp followers and baggage train..
Macedonians. The inventors of the original Phalanx formation. It was really Phillip the 2nd. Alex’s daddy that built the army that Alex then inherited to go conquer the world w/. But a great time all the same
Philip reformed the Macedonian army to make it the most powerful force in the known world. Alexander inherited this most powerful force in the known world, and he made it even BETTER ;) Have you seen any of Kings & Generals’ videos of Alexander’s logistical innovations? :D
I love these “True Size” videos! They’re such a great visual aid to understanding how an army was used in the actual field and really helps in better imagining of the real scale of ancient battles
You left out how the Spartans used musical instruments to coordinate their marches and formations. Apparently aulos (double pipe flute) players were very essential to the Spartan war-machine, as they helped the entire phalanx to maintain unit cohesion as they advanced, while sound signals allowed formations to quickly adapt and change by a general's orders. Music also had the added benefit of raising morale as listening to Spartan songs while also singing along gave the men courage and motivation to fight on in the midst of battle. Hence why the Spartans were considered to be the most warlike and musical of the Greeks. Thucydides makes notes of this in his historical account, History of The Peloponnesian War, on the opening of the Battle of Mantinea: "The Lacedaemonians advance slowly, accompanied by many double-pipes players (such is their custom), not for the goodwill of the god, but in order that they might advance evenly and keep their rhythm going, lest their formations are broken up (the sort of thing that always happens to very large forces when they make their advances)."
In his War Oration, at the start of the Peloponesian War, Pericles called the Athenians to battle. He called the Athenians “men who sing and dance together”. This may have been a reference to the civic festivals of the Democracy, but also to the synchronization of the hoplite battle line. You can still see men dancing this way in a Greece…
One of the things I've learned from years of (amateur) study of the ancient world, which alwasy tickles me, is that the size of military units then, and now seem to follow similar principles of sizes. The modern US Army infantry squad is nine men. Similar sizes of squads existed in the Roman Legions, and, apparently, the Spartan Army. Same thing with platoons... and then companies... etc. I'm not saying their exact, but the breakdown seems to have been pretty much along simlar lines/sizes for thousands of years.
Yeah, but something I find interesting is how usually their command structures were vastly different in each level. For example, the Decanus, despite being equivalent to a sergeant or corporal was elected and wouldn't count as a Principales or NCO but rather as an ordinary Pedes or Enlisted role
Excellent quality as always. One of the best channels in the community. This is a subject that I love to contemplate. I think you should make videos on the same subject for different armies, and make it a series. Although other channels have done this, I think your style and quality of video would suit it better.
Incredibly good concept and presentation. After all my years of studying ancient military history this is a breakthrough event. Nothing like it anywhere. Thank you so much!!!! I'm anxious for more. Seriously !!
It's interesting that the smallest unit size always seem to be about 8 men (+/-), the next unit always about 40-50 and company size always about 100-150. It's almost like a natural law of warfare.
Yes because it would be too hard to control or command the next actions if they increased the size. But Its fascinating how disciplined they were to be able to control such large sizes of militaries with animals and all their gears.
As per another video I've seen on the British army - by Lindybdige I think- I think think that was considered the most men a given officer or NCO can/could command. Personally, I'd be interested to know if two 10-man squads with a small additional HQ unit would be considered a viable platoon. I would envision this working with the two squads operating as 5-man fireteams, each lead by either the Sergeant or Corporal of the parent unit, with a Lance Cpl. ASL. Each fireteam would have 3 rifles, a grenade launcher or similar support weapon, and an M-249 or similar equivalent SAW/GPMG.
I love these sort of videos. I would love it if you guys could do the armies of the Diadochai (Seleucid Empire, Macedon, Ptolemaic Egypt), Alexander's Army, Byzantine Army and/or Hunnic Army. Please, these are armies that id love to learn more about
As a non-cobatant civilian I am left awestruck to see and imagine the formations of an army of disciplined soldiers taking their regular positions during battle time or while marching and repeatedly drilled on a daily basis during peace time in the camps. This looks like a well oiled huge war machine on the move while marching and efficiently making formations before fighting. It certainly would have evolved over centuries by ironing out the deficiencies based on earlier actual experiences gained and learnings from failures due to ineffective practices followed in actual battle conditions. Very nicely explained both verbally as well as visually. Your whole team deserves a huge round of applause. Well done.
The way they set up camps is a clue to the way they fought . The spartan were flexible . How they deployed depended on what the ground and enemy looked like
Comparing The Spartans to the Romans, it's important to point out that the difference in size of the support staff is in part due to the Roman Legionnaires being expected to do a lot more "support" work on their own, like building up the fortified camps, making their own meals, and foraging the countryside for food. The Spartiates relied on Helots to do the vast majority of the labor, dedicating themselves mainly on combat.
So interesting seeing the scale of forces. Would be awesome if you did a similar video on a US carrier. Very hard to explain to people the effort it takes to move a floating city around the world.
To date, my most favorite history channel, above Kings & Generals and the rest. Much because of the different aspects covered (not all battle reenactments). I hope your staff can endure the low point as of late.
Could it be possible to do this type of video for a ww2 or modern division or is that beyond the scope of this channel as it is not in antiquity. It would be cool because this type of visualization is really concrete and lets you see it directly.
We have had a few people request this subject and are now in production on an episode for the US Army in WW2. It was initially supposed to cover a Rifle Battalion but the level of detail eventually forced us to scale back to just a company.
@@InvictaHistory Great UA-cam video and channel, but I frequently find the background music in your videos to be a little too loud. I would strongly suggest you lower it or even get rid of it for large portions of the video. I firmly believe that background music is distracting, annoying, and unnecessary (especially for educational or opinionated videos with lots of talking). I also believe that people want to hear you speak/get information and not hear generic background music that doesn't really add anything useful and that people have to mentally filter out. Plus it will be one less thing you will have to do when making videos. Thank you.
I'm new to the channel, I'm doing some basic research into ancient/historic militaries and I love how this essentially "dumbs it down" in comparison to other source allowing for a better understanding
Loved your videos since day one when you did Adrianople back in 2016, along with Kings and Generals channel with the others... keep up the great work you guys & everyone over there. 👍✔ I'm looking forward to all that you have up next in the works... along with what comes up in many ideas next with Total War Pharaoh. 😎😉 Ideas: The rise of the Egyptian New Kingdom & pre history of the old & middle kingdoms leading up to it all. Wars between Egypt & Nubia over rivalries & gold mines there. The rise & fall of the Hittites & their military conflicts with Egypt & others. Troy! = rise and fall periods & history. The two Pre-classic Greek civilizations in rise & fall. Assyria = from beginning till end. Babylonia = from start to finish The Canaanites = from pre-history about them to Egypt, Moses + David & Goliath till Solomon & more. The sea peoples = everything we know & can guess about their origins The book of the dead, Ani's version & others about them & the afterlife. Construction of the great pyramids all throughout & history in uses. Tutankhamun = early to end of life & background info. Ramses the 2nd's whole life & battle of Kadesh till later life in death. Valley of the kings & their tombs. Egyptian hieroglyphs & meanings Early trade between Egypt, land of Punt and other civilizations throughout the bronze age. Beginning & end of the Bronze Age. Evolution & size of the Egyptian armies and other bronze age civilizations & militaries. Great cities of the bronze age from beginning to end, and especially those of Egypt throughout. The golden age of Egypt & developments from back then going on. History of the Nile river in Egypt & agriculture in rich farming land. The best & worst Pharaohs of ancient Egypt known. The priests of Egypt & religions Ptolemy Egypt from beginning till end in history background information Egyptian Scarab & meanings in luck & afterlife. Ancient Egyptian diplomacy & invasions by other peoples into the land of the Pharaohs... and how they dealt with it all. Hope you enjoyed for notes of this in writing down for possible future videos for 2024 onwards after Total War Pharaohs' release... and there's plenty more in ideas I have where that all came from = a decade's worth in the making in my thoughts. If you wish to contact me in future support for one another in further vids in basic ideas for your end, just reply and I will respond asap! I'm always around for your vids... so we can look out for one another in requests that will make even greater content for all who love classic history & more. P.S: Please don't make any Bronze age content in vids about it all till after looking up everything there is about Total War Pharaoh in game, units & more upon post release, for accuracy & more to make the vids even more out of them. 👌 DLCs too.
The Bronze Lie by Mike Cole is great reading on the subject of the military history of Sparta, from founding to fall. It shatters a lot of the myths about Spartan society and military performances.
Spartans for most of they history were amusement park. In Battle of Termopile, there were far more soldiers who actually did fighting on the back. Even in they famous last stand, they were less then half forces there.
@louismanet3656 if you give the book I mentioned a chance you shall observe that the author goes out of his way to mention and analyse the few extant sources, and explain how flimsy most of them are, and how even with the guesswork involved the Spartans still emerge with a complicated fighting record. He goes into Xenophon and Plutarch in great detail, of course. And even though it might look bu this point that I have a cut of the sales or something, I also want to add that the author has a refreshing style and frankness due to not being a professional historian.
@@TheRezroyes and no. The Spartans still sacrificed themselves with the Thespians (1000 Greeks vs some 120k+Persians in the third day). During the battle of Thermopylae each Greek contingent fought for a short time and then got replaced by another and didn't fight during the whole day. The Spartans and Thespians sacrificed themselves In order to cover the retreat of the remaining Greeks force in order to avoid them from getting crippled by the immortals and the Persian Cavalry. While the Thebans fought for a short time and surrendered to the Persian king. If you look at Sparta's record during the fifth century BC it is actually not that bad. They beat Tegea in -558 and conquered it and then lost a battle against them in -550 which lead to them to form the Peloponnesian league (the first defensive alliance in history like NATO). Then they will go to be responsible for overthrowing multiple Greek tyrants(Sicyon, Corinth, Naxos, Miletus, Athens...etc) and will go on to stalemate against Argos at the battle of champions just to then to beat them at the same battle where both city states mobilized their whole armies(-546) which will solidify it's position as the Hegemon of the peleponese. The Spartan army in reality was a militia force during this time and will only become a semi-Professional army in the mid -5th century much like the republican Roman legion. The Spartans were mostly famous for being great diplomats and politicians, for having the most attractive women in Greece and for having the best education system for it's citizens which were core factors admired by their fellow Greeks. The Spartan myth of Spartans being these invincible super soldiers and for being ruthless and savage was nothing but of the result of Athenian propaganda which differs far from what the real Sparta actually was.
I wish there was a "mythology" army playlist on your channel. Where you could cover things like the Trojan war or the Mahabharata war, maybe talking about their armies and compilation, as presented in texts. Obviously with all the embellishments!
"The Spartans weren't necessarily superior to their adversaries".....then goes on to show how they did everything basic task better than their contemporaries. Good job
You did miss a few important details, but you achieved a splendid overview while pointing out repeatedly that our sources are very limited :) Good work!
@@matthewhain1483 The video mentions the adoption of the "mora" system as a new, additional tier in the structure of Lakedaimonian forces. However, scholars are to date very unsure how and why this transition from a lokhos-based to a mora-based system happened, and some have even argued that the "lokhos" even disappeared altogether, with later references to it being anachronisms (mistakes made by ancient authors). So the version presented in the video is but one highly speculative version of events - this could, perhaps, have been additionally pointed out when talking about the mora (though the video made clear several times that the recnstruction presented is speculative - which is very good 🙂 Another point: we have practically zero evidence for the details on how the periokoi served in the Lakedaimonian army. Assuming thery were integrated into the spartiate units at some point is a popular opinion amongst scholars, but is highly speculative. It could be argued that integrating less trained warriors into the spartiate phalanx would have negated the advantages of superior training. Also, there were several additional classes of people in Spartan society of whom we know next to nothing, but who probably supplied soldiers to the phalanx: the "nothoi" or "mothakes" (half-spartiate bastards of helot mothers) as well as the "hypomeiones" (the so-called "lessers", probably former spartiates who had lost their status). If we assume that these also provided manpower to the phalanx, then it is possible that it was these men who, in time, filled up the Lakedaimonian phalanx, rather than the perioikoi. Many question marks and unanswered mysteries :-) But the video is really, really great for an overview and is, I would argue, broadly historically correct in its presentation. I particularly appreciate the point was made multiple times that the sources are sketchy and the reconstruction speculative.
4:01 Mentions about historical accuracy may not always come through while showing a Spartan with gauntlets when the Greco-Romans didn’t wear gauntlets LOL
Actually, my great great grandfathers cousin on my mother's side was spartan...I remember as a child,my great grandfather would show us this black,9inch,smooth long rock and tell us stories of his father turning 6 years old and being sent off to train day and night for war... when he turned 12,his uncles took him deep into the wilderness one evening and told him to strip down to his white,fruit of the loom, tidy whiteys,then ran back to the Chevy and drove the 40 miles back into town... He had just turned 12,yet the village elders wouldn't open the town gates and let him reenter to safety until he returned a man..its some ritual us spartan males in my family apparently went through.. So apparently ,my great great grandpa cousin ,who just turned 12 mind u, single_handidly killed a giant ,black,man_eating alpha wolf he had been tracking the past 7 weeks then ambushes and killed..
And yeah, in case there's any smart ass out there who doesn't know me at all, but someone wants to talk as if they know my great great grandfather and say I'm making all this up or that I sound like I watch too much tv, or u comedians out there who really want me to believe that the family heirloom isn't the wolf canine,but my great great grandmothers cousin giant,spartan dildo,yeah really great, it actually reminds me of a warning my folks gave me...I shouldn't talk much about our direct ancestral line to mighty sparta..jealousy can burn wild But,as the saying goes. The proof is in the pudding...or should I say this giant 9inch ,black hand me down
24:00 The flip side of the "Spartans, what is your profession?" question: They really sucked at everything not combat. Romans did not _need_ so many artisans, because their soldiers could do non-fighting stuff. They were bakers, smiths, woodworkers and sculpters - those are people they do not have to bring along in addition to the combat troops.
Spartans kinda weren’t that good at fighting either. They were basically rich militia. Better fed, better equipped, not better trained or with superior tactics and logistics. The Romans were a militia before Marius, but they were a well disciplined and trained militia which was quite good at diplomacy. And their citizens weren’t forbidden by law to work, or looked down on any kind of physical task
Ok saying Spartans weren't good at fighting is like saying fire isn't good at burning wood. There's a limit to stupidity. The admiration of their peers speaks more than some random UA-cam weirdo...
@@GothPaoki their battlefield victories, or rather the roughly 50-50 ratio of victories to losses, being an actual demonstration of their capabilities, actually speaks more to their overrated reputation, given to them by their enemies and their simps. The awesomest warriors ever would definitely have a better ratio of wins to losses than 50-50, right? Also, again, enemies and simps. Sparta was praised by some as an ideal because the citizens got to be lazy, so some rich Athenians, for example, would preach about the necessity of imitating Sparta- so they could be lazy too. Likewise, when you’re fighting someone, you hype them up to your own people- if you lose, you did the best you could against such valiant foes, and you’re awesome for lasting as long as you did. If you won, you managed to beat such awesome enemies, so you’re even more awesome. Just sayin, do we have any data to back the claim that Spartans were good or exceptional warriors? We know they were good slave drivers considering they managed to suppress 200,000 malnourished and stunted serfs and put down rebellions through sheer terror.
Well an obvious response to that question would be 'if war is your profession, who does the other jobs?' Slaves of course. .and Sparta had the most slaves in Greece, not saying anything about them being fellow Greeks which was apparently a big no no. You enslaved foreigners...not fellow Greeks.
Been waiting for some spartan history. I remember that Spartans where what kick started my love of history. And the game that did it. Spartan total warrior. On gamecube and ps2. If anyone needs a classic to go back to pick that one up it's on xbox original aswell.
Spartan Military prowess is often overrated from what it is actually is but it is without a doubt not a pushover as they did managed to form a fairly powerful state to rival Athens, yet of course it is all complicated
Even at the height of Spartan empire, their entire territory is probably 1/10th the size of an average US state. Even some of weaker native american kingdoms held more land than the Spartans ever did. They're entire "glory" was hugely overrated and they were regarded as one of the worst militaries of their time by other Greeks. Their "elite soldiers" were a bunch of spoiled aristocrats that sucked at war in reality and they had backward military ideologies. They only made up for it with their brutality and slave empire to do all their work for them.
@@Jake-dh9qk The Spartans weren't really an empire and were almost infamously homebodies who never really sought to conquer much land. But no, the other Greeks absolutely did not consider Sparta one of the worst militaries of their time. Everything we know about Spartan "glory" comes from other Greeks showing homage to them either in their writings or their actions. It's just revisionist fantasy to suggest otherwise.
The Helots were Serfs not Slaves by the modern sense of the word. Helots could not be bought or sold by any individual and where considered property of the State not individuals. Second thing they did have some basic rights. They were allowed to marry , have children which could not be sold. They were allowed to keep some personal property. They were by law permitted to keep half of all they grew for themselves. And unlike the Spartans. The Helots could buy and sell personal property. Including part of their share of the fruits of their labor. So no they were not Slaves. At least not in the modern sense. They were closer to medieval Serfs than what we today would recognize today as Slaves.
Ya know what I just LOVE?? Paying so much money to get rid of ads on UA-cam, just for creators to throw in their own ads whenever they want on every. Single. Video 🙄
Not just in battle, either. To be a Spartan citizen, you had to be of 100% pure Spartan ancestry. IIRC, there was also a property requirement as well. And if you were stripped of your citizenship, neither you or your descendants could recover it.The result of this was that the number of Spartans declined more through people losing these qualifications than through war or natural disasters.
As a fan of the Spartan army and having actually been to the museum at the battlefield of Thermopylae l recon the overconfidence and arrogance of the Spartans led to their downfall at the battle of Leuctra …the Thebians had the advantage of knowing exactly what the Spartans would do …their troop deployment ( strongest units on its right wing ) and tactics …..
"The Spartans treated all fighting men as equal." Well, not really, since they most definitely discriminated between Spartiates, Perioikoi, Mercenaries, Skiritai, etc., as the narrator himself says earlier in the piece.
My dude’s favorite transitional term is “let us now”
Рік тому+7
Excellent video and very interesting like the others, although in this one the lack of population of the Spartan State is totally evident, so far the smaller scale army that you have shown so far does. It would be great if you spoke at some point about the causes of the population decline of Spartan citizens, I have already read or heard it before, but surely you will give new perspectives on the subject or at least a more complete vision.
There was no population decline. You need to understand that only 10 percent of the population of Spartan state were citizens at its height. and the number of Spartan citizen's declined because of poverty and agricultural land monopolies Such that many Spartie citizen's couldn't pay their mess contributions and lost their citizenships
It wasn’t the population - it was the upper class, the nobles. The spartiates weren’t really citizens, as their sheer wealth and status, as well as low numbers basically made them nobility. In order to remain a citizen, you had to provide for your mess group and not show cowardice or disagree with current politics. In order to become a citizen, you had to be born to a citizen mother and father, and you had to pass the agoge and be sponsored for your nomination into a mess group. The army size didn’t really shrink, until Sparta began to lose territory. Before then, it was the ratio of citizens to noncitizens that grew, with noncitizen militia outnumbering the spartiates from the start and that disparity growing over time
@@Noughtbutashadow Kind of sucks because even losing your citizenship through poverty, you had to still fight in the army alongside people who were your mess-mates until recently. There was plenty of downward mobility, but essentially no upward mobility, and that's what ended up killing the Lacedaemonian state. Reading articles about the size and composition of the Spartan army, it became apparent that though unmentioned, populations like those former citizens, perioikoi, foreigners and bastards who attended the agoge and Laconians born to helot mothers and spartiate fathers made up the bulk of the Lacedaemonian military.
![Battle of Plataea (479 BC)⚔️Fight for the Fate of Greece [Day 1-10] DOCUMENTARY](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gHy9pYHSTXo/mqdefault.jpg)
Huge lift on this episode but I think its our best yet! What should we cover next? ✅ Install Raid for Free Mobile and PC: clik.cc/iVy8o and get a special starter pack with an Epic champion Drake 🎉
💥Check out Raid’s new limited animated series Call of the Arbiter here: ua-cam.com/video/H32dvyCVkfk/v-deo.html&pp=iAQB
Lol
Why the hell is the brit narrating from 3:00 onward? Where's our Invicta?!
do a video on the chorasmian kingdom north of bactria. i remember the greeks expecting wild scythians and getting an organzied kingdom that tried to diplomatically turn alexander back.
or maybe investigate the settled scythians like the budini and their connection to the proto-slavic groups?
Loved your videos since day one when you did Adrianople back in 2016, along with Kings and Generals channel with the others... keep up the great work you guys & everyone over there. 👍✔
I'm looking forward to all that you have up next in the works... along with what comes up in many ideas next with Total War Pharaoh. 😎😉
Ideas:
The rise of the Egyptian New Kingdom & pre history of the old & middle kingdoms leading up to it all.
Wars between Egypt & Nubia over rivalries & gold mines there.
The rise & fall of the Hittites & their military conflicts with Egypt & others.
Troy! = rise and fall periods & history.
The two Pre-classic Greek civilizations in rise & fall.
Assyria = from beginning till end.
Babylonia = from start to finish
The Canaanites = from pre-history about them to Egypt, Moses + David & Goliath till Solomon & more.
The sea peoples = everything we know & can guess about their origins
The book of the dead, Ani's version & others about them & the afterlife.
Construction of the great pyramids all throughout & history in uses.
Tutankhamun = early to end of life & background info.
Ramses the 2nd's whole life & battle of Kadesh till later life in death.
Valley of the kings & their tombs.
Egyptian hieroglyphs & meanings
Early trade between Egypt, land of Punt and other civilizations throughout the bronze age.
Beginning & end of the Bronze Age.
Evolution & size of the Egyptian armies and other bronze age civilizations & militaries.
Great cities of the bronze age from beginning to end, and especially those of Egypt throughout.
The golden age of Egypt & developments from back then going on.
History of the Nile river in Egypt & agriculture in rich farming land.
The best & worst Pharaohs of ancient Egypt known.
The priests of Egypt & religions
Ptolemy Egypt from beginning till end in history background information
Egyptian Scarab & meanings in luck & afterlife.
Ancient Egyptian diplomacy & invasions by other peoples into the land of the Pharaohs... and how they dealt with it all.
Hope you enjoyed for notes of this in writing down for possible future videos for 2024 onwards after Total War Pharaohs' release... and there's plenty more in ideas I have where that all came from = a decade's worth in the making in my thoughts.
If you wish to contact me in future support for one another in further vids in basic ideas for your end, just reply and I will respond asap!
I'm always around for your vids... so we can look out for one another in requests that will make even greater content for all who love classic history & more.
P.S: Please don't make any Bronze age content in vids about it all till after looking up everything there is about Total War Pharaoh in game, units & more upon post release, for accuracy & more to make the vids even more out of them. 👌 DLCs too.
The funniest part in Spartans, was that they were mostly amusement park, for most of they history.
Now I'm really looking forward for a video about the true size of the army of Alexander the Great
same would be amazing!
Or even more impressive would be the true size of Alexander’s army in contrast to the truly gigantic Achaemenid forces that were strategically outmaneuvered, on what, at least three (?) HUGE engagements
Alexander had about 50,000 men at the start of the campaign.. 47 thousand at the battle of gaugamela.
40k infantry and 7k calvary.
This is minus camp followers and baggage train..
Macedonians. The inventors of the original Phalanx formation. It was really Phillip the 2nd. Alex’s daddy that built the army that Alex then inherited to go conquer the world w/. But a great time all the same
Philip reformed the Macedonian army to make it the most powerful force in the known world.
Alexander inherited this most powerful force in the known world, and he made it even BETTER ;)
Have you seen any of Kings & Generals’ videos of Alexander’s logistical innovations? :D
I love these “True Size” videos! They’re such a great visual aid to understanding how an army was used in the actual field and really helps in better imagining of the real scale of ancient battles
Same
+
You left out how the Spartans used musical instruments to coordinate their marches and formations. Apparently aulos (double pipe flute) players were very essential to the Spartan war-machine, as they helped the entire phalanx to maintain unit cohesion as they advanced, while sound signals allowed formations to quickly adapt and change by a general's orders. Music also had the added benefit of raising morale as listening to Spartan songs while also singing along gave the men courage and motivation to fight on in the midst of battle. Hence why the Spartans were considered to be the most warlike and musical of the Greeks.
Thucydides makes notes of this in his historical account, History of The Peloponnesian War, on the opening of the Battle of Mantinea:
"The Lacedaemonians advance slowly, accompanied by many double-pipes players (such is their custom), not for the goodwill of the god, but in order that they might advance evenly and keep their rhythm going, lest their formations are broken up (the sort of thing that always happens to very large forces when they make their advances)."
You know your stuff 👍
Beautiful. Thanks
Very useful piece of info.
In his War Oration, at the start of the Peloponesian War, Pericles called the Athenians to battle. He called the Athenians “men who sing and dance together”. This may have been a reference to the civic festivals of the Democracy, but also to the synchronization of the hoplite battle line. You can still see men dancing this way in a Greece…
All armies did that.
Thank you a lot for this! Love Greek history!
One of the things I've learned from years of (amateur) study of the ancient world, which alwasy tickles me, is that the size of military units then, and now seem to follow similar principles of sizes. The modern US Army infantry squad is nine men. Similar sizes of squads existed in the Roman Legions, and, apparently, the Spartan Army. Same thing with platoons... and then companies... etc. I'm not saying their exact, but the breakdown seems to have been pretty much along simlar lines/sizes for thousands of years.
Yeah, but something I find interesting is how usually their command structures were vastly different in each level. For example, the Decanus, despite being equivalent to a sergeant or corporal was elected and wouldn't count as a Principales or NCO but rather as an ordinary Pedes or Enlisted role
Excellent quality as always. One of the best channels in the community. This is a subject that I love to contemplate. I think you should make videos on the same subject for different armies, and make it a series. Although other channels have done this, I think your style and quality of video would suit it better.
Incredibly good concept and presentation.
After all my years of studying ancient military history this is a breakthrough event.
Nothing like it anywhere.
Thank you so much!!!!
I'm anxious for more.
Seriously !!
It's interesting that the smallest unit size always seem to be about 8 men (+/-), the next unit always about 40-50 and company size always about 100-150.
It's almost like a natural law of warfare.
Yes because it would be too hard to control or command the next actions if they increased the size.
But Its fascinating how disciplined they were to be able to control such large sizes of militaries with animals and all their gears.
As per another video I've seen on the British army - by Lindybdige I think- I think think that was considered the most men a given officer or NCO can/could command.
Personally, I'd be interested to know if two 10-man squads with a small additional HQ unit would be considered a viable platoon.
I would envision this working with the two squads operating as 5-man fireteams, each lead by either the Sergeant or Corporal of the parent unit, with a Lance Cpl. ASL.
Each fireteam would have 3 rifles, a grenade launcher or similar support weapon, and an M-249 or similar equivalent SAW/GPMG.
Speaking as a Greek I can say wow and thank you for such a quality video and discourse !
This channel has greatly evolved over the years. I'm loving it
I love these sort of videos. I would love it if you guys could do the armies of the Diadochai (Seleucid Empire, Macedon, Ptolemaic Egypt), Alexander's Army, Byzantine Army and/or Hunnic Army. Please, these are armies that id love to learn more about
Terrific video! It's fascinating to study what can be known of ancient military formations.
As a non-cobatant civilian I am left awestruck to see and imagine the formations of an army of disciplined soldiers taking their regular positions during battle time or while marching and repeatedly drilled on a daily basis during peace time in the camps. This looks like a well oiled huge war machine on the move while marching and efficiently making formations before fighting.
It certainly would have evolved over centuries by ironing out the deficiencies based on earlier actual experiences gained and learnings from failures due to ineffective practices followed in actual battle conditions.
Very nicely explained both verbally as well as visually. Your whole team deserves a huge round of applause. Well done.
The way they set up camps is a clue to the way they fought . The spartan were flexible . How they deployed depended on what the ground and enemy looked like
I would love to see a Macedonian army
these are great videos, were lucky to get them free... thank you for making them and sharing them with us all
Comparing The Spartans to the Romans, it's important to point out that the difference in size of the support staff is in part due to the Roman Legionnaires being expected to do a lot more "support" work on their own, like building up the fortified camps, making their own meals, and foraging the countryside for food. The Spartiates relied on Helots to do the vast majority of the labor, dedicating themselves mainly on combat.
The Spartiates were the "nobility" of their social order, "knights on foot" . While the Roman army were soldiers, at least since the late Republic.
So interesting seeing the scale of forces. Would be awesome if you did a similar video on a US carrier. Very hard to explain to people the effort it takes to move a floating city around the world.
Do true size of an Aztec army next
Hi! Thank you for excellent documentation, I have been learning a lot. 😊
next video on Achaemenid's army ???😅
To date, my most favorite history channel, above Kings & Generals and the rest. Much because of the different aspects covered (not all battle reenactments). I hope your staff can endure the low point as of late.
Could it be possible to do this type of video for a ww2 or modern division or is that beyond the scope of this channel as it is not in antiquity. It would be cool because this type of visualization is really concrete and lets you see it directly.
We have had a few people request this subject and are now in production on an episode for the US Army in WW2. It was initially supposed to cover a Rifle Battalion but the level of detail eventually forced us to scale back to just a company.
@@InvictaHistory Great UA-cam video and channel, but I frequently find the background music in your videos to be a little too loud. I would strongly suggest you lower it or even get rid of it for large portions of the video. I firmly believe that background music is distracting, annoying, and unnecessary (especially for educational or opinionated videos with lots of talking). I also believe that people want to hear you speak/get information and not hear generic background music that doesn't really add anything useful and that people have to mentally filter out. Plus it will be one less thing you will have to do when making videos. Thank you.
A video like this on Alexander the Great’s army would be very cool
Kinda feels like this shoulda been episode 1 of this series, but im just glad you got to it.
In the future, when you pronounce Greek words that have the letters next to each other they make an sound exactly as you would pronounce this letter.
That’s modern Greek, the ancient sounded different.
IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS
I'm new to the channel, I'm doing some basic research into ancient/historic militaries and I love how this essentially "dumbs it down" in comparison to other source allowing for a better understanding
Loved your videos since day one when you did Adrianople back in 2016, along with Kings and Generals channel with the others... keep up the great work you guys & everyone over there. 👍✔
I'm looking forward to all that you have up next in the works... along with what comes up in many ideas next with Total War Pharaoh. 😎😉
Ideas:
The rise of the Egyptian New Kingdom & pre history of the old & middle kingdoms leading up to it all.
Wars between Egypt & Nubia over rivalries & gold mines there.
The rise & fall of the Hittites & their military conflicts with Egypt & others.
Troy! = rise and fall periods & history.
The two Pre-classic Greek civilizations in rise & fall.
Assyria = from beginning till end.
Babylonia = from start to finish
The Canaanites = from pre-history about them to Egypt, Moses + David & Goliath till Solomon & more.
The sea peoples = everything we know & can guess about their origins
The book of the dead, Ani's version & others about them & the afterlife.
Construction of the great pyramids all throughout & history in uses.
Tutankhamun = early to end of life & background info.
Ramses the 2nd's whole life & battle of Kadesh till later life in death.
Valley of the kings & their tombs.
Egyptian hieroglyphs & meanings
Early trade between Egypt, land of Punt and other civilizations throughout the bronze age.
Beginning & end of the Bronze Age.
Evolution & size of the Egyptian armies and other bronze age civilizations & militaries.
Great cities of the bronze age from beginning to end, and especially those of Egypt throughout.
The golden age of Egypt & developments from back then going on.
History of the Nile river in Egypt & agriculture in rich farming land.
The best & worst Pharaohs of ancient Egypt known.
The priests of Egypt & religions
Ptolemy Egypt from beginning till end in history background information
Egyptian Scarab & meanings in luck & afterlife.
Ancient Egyptian diplomacy & invasions by other peoples into the land of the Pharaohs... and how they dealt with it all.
Hope you enjoyed for notes of this in writing down for possible future videos for 2024 onwards after Total War Pharaohs' release... and there's plenty more in ideas I have where that all came from = a decade's worth in the making in my thoughts.
If you wish to contact me in future support for one another in further vids in basic ideas for your end, just reply and I will respond asap!
I'm always around for your vids... so we can look out for one another in requests that will make even greater content for all who love classic history & more.
P.S: Please don't make any Bronze age content in vids about it all till after looking up everything there is about Total War Pharaoh in game, units & more upon post release, for accuracy & more to make the vids even more out of them. 👌 DLCs too.
I like the fact that your the first video I have seen on the Spartan Army that actually got their helmets right
I can't wait for the video on the Macedonian army size, this one was great!
It was super wonderful video that explained district arrangement of Spartans army...thank you (Invicta) history coverage channel
Amazing video, please more of this
The Bronze Lie by Mike Cole is great reading on the subject of the military history of Sparta, from founding to fall. It shatters a lot of the myths about Spartan society and military performances.
Spartans for most of they history were amusement park. In Battle of Termopile, there were far more soldiers who actually did fighting on the back. Even in they famous last stand, they were less then half forces there.
It also has a shitload of innacuracies though
Or we could go straight to the source and read Xenophon who, if we read carefully, didn't really have anything nice to say about the Spartans
@louismanet3656 if you give the book I mentioned a chance you shall observe that the author goes out of his way to mention and analyse the few extant sources, and explain how flimsy most of them are, and how even with the guesswork involved the Spartans still emerge with a complicated fighting record.
He goes into Xenophon and Plutarch in great detail, of course.
And even though it might look bu this point that I have a cut of the sales or something, I also want to add that the author has a refreshing style and frankness due to not being a professional historian.
@@TheRezroyes and no. The Spartans still sacrificed themselves with the Thespians (1000 Greeks vs some 120k+Persians in the third day). During the battle of Thermopylae each Greek contingent fought for a short time and then got replaced by another and didn't fight during the whole day. The Spartans and Thespians sacrificed themselves In order to cover the retreat of the remaining Greeks force in order to avoid them from getting crippled by the immortals and the Persian Cavalry. While the Thebans fought for a short time and surrendered to the Persian king. If you look at Sparta's record during the fifth century BC it is actually not that bad.
They beat Tegea in -558 and conquered it and then lost a battle against them in -550 which lead to them to form the Peloponnesian league (the first defensive alliance in history like NATO). Then they will go to be responsible for overthrowing multiple Greek tyrants(Sicyon, Corinth, Naxos, Miletus, Athens...etc) and will go on to stalemate against Argos at the battle of champions just to then to beat them at the same battle where both city states mobilized their whole armies(-546) which will solidify it's position as the Hegemon of the peleponese.
The Spartan army in reality was a militia force during this time and will only become a semi-Professional army in the mid -5th century much like the republican Roman legion. The Spartans were mostly famous for being great diplomats and politicians, for having the most attractive women in Greece and for having the best education system for it's citizens which were core factors admired by their fellow Greeks. The Spartan myth of Spartans being these invincible super soldiers and for being ruthless and savage was nothing but of the result of Athenian propaganda which differs far from what the real Sparta actually was.
An excellent video, really enjoy these true size videos
Really great video! Huge step up in quality
I wish there was a "mythology" army playlist on your channel. Where you could cover things like the Trojan war or the Mahabharata war, maybe talking about their armies and compilation, as presented in texts. Obviously with all the embellishments!
I really, really like this idea. We've had Invicta videos about Lord of the Rings and Game of Thrones but no real-life mythology? It hurts.
Amazing work!
"The Spartans weren't necessarily superior to their adversaries".....then goes on to show how they did everything basic task better than their contemporaries. Good job
You should make a visualization of Machiavelli's army from his "Art of War."
More of this please. Great video
A really interesting documentary, being passionate about Greek history, and being Greek myself.
This was anothery very well done and intersting Video. Thx everyone
Very nice and many details about organization and tactics and style of the army and many more
You did miss a few important details, but you achieved a splendid overview while pointing out repeatedly that our sources are very limited :) Good work!
I would be interested to hear what these details are to look into myself. My knowledge of ancient history is not as good as that of modern history.
@@matthewhain1483
The video mentions the adoption of the "mora" system as a new, additional tier in the structure of Lakedaimonian forces. However, scholars are to date very unsure how and why this transition from a lokhos-based to a mora-based system happened, and some have even argued that the "lokhos" even disappeared altogether, with later references to it being anachronisms (mistakes made by ancient authors). So the version presented in the video is but one highly speculative version of events - this could, perhaps, have been additionally pointed out when talking about the mora (though the video made clear several times that the recnstruction presented is speculative - which is very good 🙂
Another point: we have practically zero evidence for the details on how the periokoi served in the Lakedaimonian army. Assuming thery were integrated into the spartiate units at some point is a popular opinion amongst scholars, but is highly speculative. It could be argued that integrating less trained warriors into the spartiate phalanx would have negated the advantages of superior training.
Also, there were several additional classes of people in Spartan society of whom we know next to nothing, but who probably supplied soldiers to the phalanx: the "nothoi" or "mothakes" (half-spartiate bastards of helot mothers) as well as the "hypomeiones" (the so-called "lessers", probably former spartiates who had lost their status). If we assume that these also provided manpower to the phalanx, then it is possible that it was these men who, in time, filled up the Lakedaimonian phalanx, rather than the perioikoi.
Many question marks and unanswered mysteries :-) But the video is really, really great for an overview and is, I would argue, broadly historically correct in its presentation. I particularly appreciate the point was made multiple times that the sources are sketchy and the reconstruction speculative.
love these documentaries
How do you achieve such a smooth complexion and giant plush toy like eyeballs, very intriguing
Thought I'd left my laptop on with Rome 2 running!
Attempt #2 of asking for a video on veterinary medicine in these armies
Please?
Nice rome total 2 music in the background ❤
Great video! Tasteful art is being upgraded it seems. I just wish any quotes were on screen as well as being read.
Amazing video. Great work.
4:01 Mentions about historical accuracy may not always come through while showing a Spartan with gauntlets when the Greco-Romans didn’t wear gauntlets LOL
Actually, my great great grandfathers cousin on my mother's side was spartan...I remember as a child,my great grandfather would show us this black,9inch,smooth long rock and tell us stories of his father turning 6 years old and being sent off to train day and night for war...
when he turned 12,his uncles took him deep into the wilderness one evening and told him to strip down to his white,fruit of the loom, tidy whiteys,then ran back to the Chevy and drove the 40 miles back into town...
He had just turned 12,yet the village elders wouldn't open the town gates and let him reenter to safety until he returned a man..its some ritual us spartan males in my family apparently went through..
So apparently ,my great great grandpa cousin ,who just turned 12 mind u, single_handidly killed a giant ,black,man_eating alpha wolf he had been tracking the past 7 weeks then ambushes and killed..
And yeah, in case there's any smart ass out there who doesn't know me at all, but someone wants to talk as if they know my great great grandfather and say I'm making all this up or that I sound like I watch too much tv, or u comedians out there who really want me to believe that the family heirloom isn't the wolf canine,but my great great grandmothers cousin giant,spartan dildo,yeah really great, it actually reminds me of a warning my folks gave me...I shouldn't talk much about our direct ancestral line to mighty sparta..jealousy can burn wild
But,as the saying goes. The proof is in the pudding...or should I say this giant 9inch ,black hand me down
Omg!!! Thank you for such amazing content 🎉❤
the opening commercial or whatever gave off a rly strong chuck E cheese vibe imo.
Yesss I've been waiting for this episode
Can we please give videos on the true size of Hospitaller Teutonic and templar Armies?
24:00 The flip side of the "Spartans, what is your profession?" question: They really sucked at everything not combat.
Romans did not _need_ so many artisans, because their soldiers could do non-fighting stuff. They were bakers, smiths, woodworkers and sculpters - those are people they do not have to bring along in addition to the combat troops.
Spartans kinda weren’t that good at fighting either. They were basically rich militia. Better fed, better equipped, not better trained or with superior tactics and logistics. The Romans were a militia before Marius, but they were a well disciplined and trained militia which was quite good at diplomacy. And their citizens weren’t forbidden by law to work, or looked down on any kind of physical task
Ok saying Spartans weren't good at fighting is like saying fire isn't good at burning wood. There's a limit to stupidity. The admiration of their peers speaks more than some random UA-cam weirdo...
@@GothPaoki their battlefield victories, or rather the roughly 50-50 ratio of victories to losses, being an actual demonstration of their capabilities, actually speaks more to their overrated reputation, given to them by their enemies and their simps.
The awesomest warriors ever would definitely have a better ratio of wins to losses than 50-50, right?
Also, again, enemies and simps. Sparta was praised by some as an ideal because the citizens got to be lazy, so some rich Athenians, for example, would preach about the necessity of imitating Sparta- so they could be lazy too. Likewise, when you’re fighting someone, you hype them up to your own people- if you lose, you did the best you could against such valiant foes, and you’re awesome for lasting as long as you did. If you won, you managed to beat such awesome enemies, so you’re even more awesome.
Just sayin, do we have any data to back the claim that Spartans were good or exceptional warriors? We know they were good slave drivers considering they managed to suppress 200,000 malnourished and stunted serfs and put down rebellions through sheer terror.
@@Noughtbutashadow lol simps?? Seriously?? They liked Sparta because they liked to be lazy?? You're completely unhinged man..
Well an obvious response to that question would be 'if war is your profession, who does the other jobs?' Slaves of course. .and Sparta had the most slaves in Greece, not saying anything about them being fellow Greeks which was apparently a big no no. You enslaved foreigners...not fellow Greeks.
great documentation
I'd buy these videos on DVD if they were in a series like- " Avenging Varus" & such. Just an idea for you.
Awesome Documentary👍
Just what the world needed, another video helping to perpetuate the myth of the Sparta.
Brilliant
Fascinating! Thank you!
Been waiting for some spartan history. I remember that Spartans where what kick started my love of history. And the game that did it. Spartan total warrior. On gamecube and ps2. If anyone needs a classic to go back to pick that one up it's on xbox original aswell.
Good video.
Curious how pretty much every great kingdom/empire rose thanks to heavy support from its allies
two men helping each other can accomplish more than one man helping himself
Rome rose by incorporating their Allies as citizens, and later rewarding military service with citizenship. Would you like to know more?
2:54 the add ends here
you had me at RSL thank thank you
Awesome video!
Amazing series!
Good video sir,
Make video on true army size of Alexander the great
Spartan Military prowess is often overrated from what it is actually is but it is without a doubt not a pushover as they did managed to form a fairly powerful state to rival Athens, yet of course it is all complicated
Even at the height of Spartan empire, their entire territory is probably 1/10th the size of an average US state. Even some of weaker native american kingdoms held more land than the Spartans ever did. They're entire "glory" was hugely overrated and they were regarded as one of the worst militaries of their time by other Greeks. Their "elite soldiers" were a bunch of spoiled aristocrats that sucked at war in reality and they had backward military ideologies. They only made up for it with their brutality and slave empire to do all their work for them.
@@Jake-dh9qk The Spartans weren't really an empire and were almost infamously homebodies who never really sought to conquer much land. But no, the other Greeks absolutely did not consider Sparta one of the worst militaries of their time. Everything we know about Spartan "glory" comes from other Greeks showing homage to them either in their writings or their actions. It's just revisionist fantasy to suggest otherwise.
Pls Macedon Phalanx next
Pls Macedon Phalanx next
Pls Macedon Phalanx next
The Helots were Serfs not Slaves by the modern sense of the word.
Helots could not be bought or sold by any individual and where considered property of the State not individuals.
Second thing they did have some basic rights.
They were allowed to marry , have children which could not be sold.
They were allowed to keep some personal property.
They were by law permitted to keep half of all they grew for themselves. And unlike the Spartans. The Helots could buy and sell personal property. Including part of their share of the fruits of their labor.
So no they were not Slaves. At least not in the modern sense. They were closer to medieval Serfs than what we today would recognize today as Slaves.
They were also randomly murdered the keep them in line.
"Then from chaos, we shall rise"!
Nice video
Ya know what I just LOVE?? Paying so much money to get rid of ads on UA-cam, just for creators to throw in their own ads whenever they want on every. Single. Video 🙄
Nice vid
True Size of a Spartan Army - ( narrator: " please keep in mind this is only a rough estimate, and we don't really know.')
Excellent.
WOOHOO 🎉
AMAZINGGGG
So the periokoi were only included in the army after they started to recieve huge losses?
Not just in battle, either. To be a Spartan citizen, you had to be of 100% pure Spartan ancestry. IIRC, there was also a property requirement as well. And if you were stripped of your citizenship, neither you or your descendants could recover it.The result of this was that the number of Spartans declined more through people losing these qualifications than through war or natural disasters.
@InvictaHistory Were you on the UK podcast 'history hit' recently talking about surviving disasters throughout history?
As a fan of the Spartan army and having actually been to the museum at the battlefield of Thermopylae l recon the overconfidence and arrogance of the Spartans led to their downfall at the battle of Leuctra …the Thebians had the advantage of knowing exactly what the Spartans would do …their troop deployment ( strongest units on its right wing ) and tactics …..
You mentioned Spartan "fortifications." However, the Spartans boasted "Our walls are men."
frfr why need walls when your men are made of metal
Thanks you
Very accurate.
You NEED to ask how to pronounce Greek words. For example: it’s polem ( fight related word ) archon (= leader )
Nice
Great video. The Spartans are the most BADASS warriors of all time!!!
…since when?
They weren’t most badass
Yeah man, Halo Spartans like Master Chief are badass as hell.
Oh you mean the historical ones? Lol
In video games perhaps lol
Only in video games and as an amusement park equivalent for the Romans lol.
I see why Thēbai had to make the left side especially strong.
I was worried the deep voice guy wasn't on this video, phew ':)
"The Spartans treated all fighting men as equal." Well, not really, since they most definitely discriminated between Spartiates, Perioikoi, Mercenaries, Skiritai, etc., as the narrator himself says earlier in the piece.
In battle not social class get a grip.
Όμοιοι -Omii , Περίοικοι -Periiki, Λοχαγός Λοχαγοί -Lohawos Lohawoi
My dude’s favorite transitional term is “let us now”
Excellent video and very interesting like the others, although in this one the lack of population of the Spartan State is totally evident, so far the smaller scale army that you have shown so far does. It would be great if you spoke at some point about the causes of the population decline of Spartan citizens, I have already read or heard it before, but surely you will give new perspectives on the subject or at least a more complete vision.
There was no population decline.
You need to understand that only 10 percent of the population of Spartan state were citizens at its height.
and the number of Spartan citizen's declined because of poverty and agricultural land monopolies
Such that many Spartie citizen's couldn't pay their mess contributions and lost their citizenships
It wasn’t the population - it was the upper class, the nobles. The spartiates weren’t really citizens, as their sheer wealth and status, as well as low numbers basically made them nobility. In order to remain a citizen, you had to provide for your mess group and not show cowardice or disagree with current politics. In order to become a citizen, you had to be born to a citizen mother and father, and you had to pass the agoge and be sponsored for your nomination into a mess group.
The army size didn’t really shrink, until Sparta began to lose territory. Before then, it was the ratio of citizens to noncitizens that grew, with noncitizen militia outnumbering the spartiates from the start and that disparity growing over time
@@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl well said!
👏
@@Noughtbutashadow thanks
@@Noughtbutashadow Kind of sucks because even losing your citizenship through poverty, you had to still fight in the army alongside people who were your mess-mates until recently. There was plenty of downward mobility, but essentially no upward mobility, and that's what ended up killing the Lacedaemonian state. Reading articles about the size and composition of the Spartan army, it became apparent that though unmentioned, populations like those former citizens, perioikoi, foreigners and bastards who attended the agoge and Laconians born to helot mothers and spartiate fathers made up the bulk of the Lacedaemonian military.
Good video although there may be some disagreements in it.