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I do think that we'll (hopefully) see more of Hugh's anger going forward, especially now that he can harness that destructive energy into literal destruction via Vermithor.
He's got to have some repressed anger about Aegon not keeping his word about paying for the scorpions in advance and that possibly resulting in his kid dying. I definitely would.
I found the dragon claiming scene really disturbing. Seeing all the forgotten illegitimate family being used by a queen who doesn't really see them beyond their possibility of helping her win back a throne is how I saw it. They didn't have to answer the call of course but seeing all the characters, whose birth wasn't their fault, who are despised or forgotten, and whose story was etched into their faces before seeing it immediately and carelessly thrown away in a cult-like manner, something in that really shook me.
It was a good decision. People have been complaining that Rhaenyra is too perfect or too good. I think her letting these innocent* people from kings landing shows her dark side or a bit of cruelty.
Good. That’s how it should have affected you. Team Black aren’t the good guys either. These stories are about how power always corrupts, how those who are born into it are nearly always ill equipped to wield it (even if they’re not actively evil), and it’s always the “small folk” who suffer at their ineptitude. GRRM is attempting to create a sort of anti-fantasy, in contrast to the works of Tolkien and his successors, where blood and birth right yield honour and heroism. The Greens, The Blacks, even the more honorable houses like the Tullys and Starks are all the privileged beneficiaries of an oppressive, bigoted system built on violence. There’s nothing noble about Nobility.
@@kenydemeza agreed, it makes sense for her character to do and removes the bias we saw towards the blacks in season 1. We're seeing the callousness in both sides as the war affects the innocents
@@MrOtistetrax yeah, too true, too true. I appreciate the challenge of realising the characters you once enjoyed watching or rooted for to some degree were always uncaring and capable of evil. Brings that anti-fantasy message home that we realise from our own country's historic figures
What she did was a profanity. Her Valyrian dragon keepers wouldn't be part of it, it was like some kind of hideous blood sacrifice ritual in exchange for destructive power.
That's a good point that Rhaenyra seems to be circling back to faith this episode to justify her actions, much like Alicent had historically. Religion didn't seem to have much purpose for her until she either consciously or unconsciously realized she can use it to justify some questionable choices because "greater good!"
I think Rhaenyra is a slow burn. Her storyline basically shadows Daenerys, a woman fighting for a the iron throne that loses everything and goes mad. After the backlash of Dany going insane so fast I think they’re trying to handle Rhaenyra with extra caution. Sometimes going too slow with her development can seem to harm the characterisation but I think it’ll pay off when this series is done. I like the self righteousness she’s got going on lately.
So slow it never catches fire... I mean her paralyzed state is a terrible plot point. What did she actually do in season 2? Literally sit at dragon stone all season long
I would say the same of daemon too. He did literally nothing all season. It just feels like filler. I mean he did get the Riverland to his side (maybe) it took 8 episodes for the king concort to get the Riverlands lord to swear fealty??? Come on guys.. this is obvious filler bs
I think you're somewhat justified in arguing Daemon's arc is filler, because it has been slow and meandering in places, but I have to admit, it's one of my pet peeves when people refer to character-based plotlines as filler
The pace is adapted to the target audience. They learned the lesson from GoT and the "OMG I didn't see it coming, it's not me it's BAD WRITING": dumb people don't get things if you say them once and quickly move to the next thing. So everything is drawn out and shown or said multiple times. Foreshadowing is repeated too. That's why it feels slow. Good GoT dialogue was dense, with characters speaking themselves out for the audience to make sense of. Here is it mostly repetitive, simple and often made of characters lecturing each other. And yes, this is a remake of the Daenerys arc.
The fact that her show storyline "shadows Daenerys" just shows how much the show messed up, Rhaenyra and Daenerys had no similarities whatsoever, Rhaenyra was always a lot more similar to Cersei. But she is being pushed as the new Daenerys to be painted as the tragic hero of the story when she just wasn't.
Total props to the effects teams this episode. The dragons felt so real, like actual creatures in some moments. Like the moment Vermithor first showed up, you could practically feel the wind as he approached, smell his rancid sheep breath, touch his uneven skin. I can't completely put my finger on why, but the violence on the "dragon seed" people felt a lot more visceral and horrifying than the violence earlier this season, such as at Rook's Rest. It just too real hearing bones break and fresh amesh in animal jaws and enflamed on the ground. It just felt like.... especially pointless suffering. Another example of working class people just fighting for a hope of gettting ahead and having it LITERALLY blow up in their faces. Did Rhaenyra even give them proper informed consent they might die? And shutting the doors behind them... I was furious!! These people are technically her blood and she was way to willing to sacrifice them all in a most horrendous way. This was the first scene this season I was truly horrified and shocked... which probably isn’t good of me considering "blood and cheese" at the beginning.... 🫠🫠 but to be fair that violence I was expecting.
I feel lucky to be around to see dragons come alive so well. I feel like before GoT and HotD there was like... 30 minutes combined screen time of decent dragon FX in all of film history.
@byttercandy yeah, but there are literal dragons 😂🐉 we already established that realism is out the window so we can hope for informed consent too 😅 in theory
I didn't like the way they portrayed Blood and Cheese at all though and the way they did it I just couldn't get horrified like I expected to from how it's written in the books. They took the major part out of it and have completely changed Helena's character just to give her a bigger role I guess yet we still rarely ever see her. She just acts completely weird and like her own child's death didn't affect her much afterwards. I didn't like that change at all.
Oh i like the tone constrast between Hugh and Ulf. It shows how different and unpredictable dragons are. One kills everyone and chooses the one that stands in front of him in defiance, while the other just chills and then picks the social butterfly who's going to have a blast riding him. Maybe its because I do laugh a lot (in a good way) in every episode. My gosh I laughed when Tully was roasting Daemon. So brilliant. So just in the same way I laughed in a celebratory way when Ulf was riding above King's Landing 😂😂🎉🎉
What bothers me with the people around Rhaenyra, is that they kinda forget that she's isolated. Jace told her to find dragonseeds, and got offended that she found bastard lowborn ones. Yeah, I get his perspective, but at the same time, everyone around her seems to forget that she doesn't yet have many allies locked down. To her knowledge, the Riverlands are still ambiguous, she has for sure the northmen but no known dragonseeds in the north, and the Valyrian houses. But that's more or less it. How can she approach high born people with possible valyrian heritage and have them come claim dragons, when she isn't certain of their loyalties? And at the same time, how can she do that while also keeping it under wraps. I'm sure she wouldn't want the greens to find out that she's trying to find dragon riders. And at the same time, let's say that hypothetically she approaches potential high born riders, will their houses come to her support if she brings them on and they end up getting eaten by her dragons? Even with their consent, still it's a jab. It is callous to say, but it is true in the context of a show like this, but the common people don't hold as much value as high born people do. If she brings 50 people of low birth to claim dragons, and only 2 do, while 48 get killed, in their eyes it's "big woop". If she brought 50 high born though, and had 48 of them killed, it would be a big deal. I mean, only one high born died trying to tame a dragon, and everyone is bitching about it. Why would she risk that many high born house's loyalty and support?
Felt so bad for Jace this ep and throwing those people right into the pit with only a little pep talk is wild. Tbh the only highborn family you could trust with a dragon is one of extreme loyalty and honor like the Starks.
I see parallels of the dragon seed storyline that will mirror what Dany will go through in the remaining books. She desperately wants riders for her dragons to complete the, "dragon has three heads" prophecy. But logistically, what does that look like?
I was rather impressed with them finally coming out and stating that Jace (and maybe Joffrey later) knows exactly who his father was, and who he wasn't, and what that means to his eventual coming to the Iron Throne. Yet even when confronted as she is, Rhaenyra sidesteps the question her son asked her. She doesn't admit it, but she doesn't deny it, either.
@@Godzilla00X For Ned, a dragon would be a very large, fast horse that can light your campfire while travelling. Brandon would be a stunt pilot to impress the girls, and he'd be doing strategic target practice: "We can accurately flame a deer from 200m. Now imagine that's a Lannister!"
I love that Rhaenyra finally unleashed her fury, stripping off her previous reservations. Yes, everything she claimed made her sound righteous, but getting people who shared her blood burned for a "chance" of success is pure evil. She may gave the small folks power, but only to further her own fight. None of the elites truly care for these people unless they served their purpose. They are just pawns in the game, so I'm excited how giving the dragon seeds flying nukes gonna bite the Blacks back in their asses. I'm team black, but objectively, both sides (and also Daemon) are just selfish assholes throwing tantrums at each other. Vaerys warning about the dragon only seem more prominent this episode.
I think that Hugh’s anger is a bit different here. It’s more like “come on do your worst, my life already sucks”. But once he has a dragon and the power that comes from that position, his anger might become more of the vengeful sort.
Oh yeah, same here. I felt it like defiance and protest against the unfairness of life more than pure anger. Some Zuko vibes but without the teenager vibes xP
I feel like hes more hiding in that anger than goading death. His scene with Vermithor doesnt feel to me like a man who is truly okay with dying. It feels more like hes done playing the good responsible guy. He starts his story convinced he couldnt even steal food to feed his family, he ends up doing so, his daughter dies, it feels like hes at odds with his wife. So to me he seems like hes thinking ''my life sucks, my wife sucks, my daughter is dead, im not even a good person, the only win ive gotten in recent memory is punching a guy to steal his food, and you know what? i might be a shit person but that felt good... so come on! kill me in a badass way or make me powerfull, both are better than a mundane shitty life
@@mylittlethoughttree I mean his daughter has just died, he feels like he’s failed as a father. It makes him more ready to risk it all or nothing now. Either he dies as a way to punish himself for failure, or gain great power to make up for it. It’s like he is giving himself this trial to see if he is still worthy of being a husband to his wife, of himself.
@mylittlethoughttree I didn't buy the shout either. I was watching waiting for him to do a follow up roar with veins popping and spit flying. His ready to die rage wasn't believable
to me it felt like the whole first season was rushing to get to the war, but now that it's actually started in season 2, it feels like they are delaying it, and the reasons ring hollow...so to me the question is why were they rushing in the first place? only to completely stop the momentum?
I feel this. I was hoping for more action setpieces almost every episode after Rook's Rest but eps 5 and 6 were really disappointing. 7 had action for sure, but did we really need to see rhaenyra's pawns get burned again? What was the point of Darklyn's death if we're just going to see the same scene repeated? Are we even going to see Aemond and Daemon face off this season? According to Alt Shift X this entire season has been based off like 20 pages from the book, and it shows, it feels quite dragged out at this point.
After GoT destroyed itself HotD had to prove itself on season 1, they did, so now they can go on the pace that they actualy want, i never felt like the series is boring or slow in any way, and idk why i see so many people complaining about this
The show only felt fast-paced in season one because of the time skips. They could have started the season later in the timeline, but I think the show would have been weaker if it had. Personally, I liked that season one focused on King Viserys’s deterioration. I also really like the pace of this season. There are some issues, sure, but they don't detract from my overall enjoyment of the show. Honestly, I’d like the show less if it was just snappy spectacle.
@@MiraBoo I'm glad that it's working for you, but I found season 1 lacking not only cause of the strange writing decisions, but also the fact they didn't build up the characters or relationships we should care about..grrm even suggested they start the timeline even earlier, so as to build up the whole family dynamic and what leads to the big events as for season 2, nothing that happened feels like it has consequences, we're literally right back where we started with most of the characters (for example daemon, literally coming to the conclusion we already had with him in season 1), or nonsensical (nyra, who wasn't allowed to feel anger or grief at her children's deaths and her motivation is whatever this is instead)... could go on with corlys having nothing to do all season, and him also only having One moment to grieve rhaenys and bam we moved on....daemon has felt more abt jaehaerys dying than his own parents or other family members, they were completely fine after 2 days lol the minimization of scenes with baela or rhaena is another big problem, showing that they didn't learn from season 1, where they were completely sidelined and keeping in mind that only a very short time has passed in season 2 so the lack of reactions about not only this but everything that happens is Strange to say the least
If I had to guess a theme of this episode it would be letting go of what you have to take a risk for something more.... Rhaenyra is doing this, risking people's lives and loyalty at the chance of more dragons The people coming to try to claim a dragon are leaving their lives and taking a huge risk Green queen is leaving the castle, getting a glimpse of a simpler life she could live, risking her place The new Tully lord is risking being eaten by an angry dragon to show his worth as a ruler and leader in a new role Bhaelor, rhaena? Sorry unsure on which name is about to risk a wild dragon for the chance to join her sister and fight
100% agree with not feeling anything for the dragon riders. Your idea of not knowing anyone would've been better. Or get us to feel something for a potential dragon rider just to let Vermithor burn them, thus making us conflicted about Rhaenyra as a ruler.
How about aegon hanging rat catcher employe? Aegon raping Diana ? Aegon igrone his sister-wife?Aegon Stupidity let bunch idiot being kingsguard? Aegon bullying Aemond in Brothel? Aegon nervous when being confront by aemond in valyrian Language? Aegon not pay hugh hammer scorpion? Aegon bastard child in child fight ring smallfolk? Aegon idiotic fire otto as hand? Aegon dont know movement plan criston cole & Aemond And by the way, you even not hear that rhaenyra already tell dragonseed if want claim dragon, must prepare to die. That is BIG FREAKING WARNING.
I've thought the season has been paced well so far, but here in particular, I've honestly been struggling to imagine just how exactly they'll reach a satisfactory endpoint within the span of a single hour, hour and a half of television. I don't think the Dragonseeds have had 'not enough,' so much as it's just YMMV on whether or not the performances work, wherein Hugh genuinely is more hit and miss than the rest (loved his big claiming sequence here though). Ulf feels like they just handed a comic relief character a weapon of mass destruction, and I loved the impression even he didn't seem to believe that he really was part-Targaryen and thought he'd made it up to boast to his mates and get drinks, and basically got peer-pressured into answering the call. He's been thrust into a role that's totally inappropriate for him, and that's already proving to be good comedy with great potential for drama. I do think sometimes the mixed feelings are intentional. The sowing of the dragonseeds is a horrific and callous event and a clearly risky idea, but for the two of them that did "win" it, it truly is a triumphant, uplifting moment, and yet also one where power will clearly magnify the parts of themselves they never had the means to emphasize before. It's clear that Hugh always longed for power even as his wife only wanted for them to survive and be happy together, and Ulf's first instinct is to take his dragon on a joyride across enemy territory. I really, really hope Rhaena doesn't claim the dragon in the Vale, that all of this is simply a rugpull for when the book-canon rider for which dragon that's likely meant to be shows up. I think it's a disservice to her character if the solution to all her insecurities turns out to just be taming an extra-special extra-scary dragon she rides in to turn the tides of a big battle in the nick of time, when the show has been so good so far at communicating that simply getting really good at killing people is not a good answer for the discrimination women face. If it happens, it also replaces probably the most interesting 'dragonseed' of them all, and sad thing is, while obviously not spoiling either's outcomes, I can see the entirely utilitarian writing reasons for the two's roles to be pushed together. Do also gotta disagree on the latest Daemon dream. Anything that gives us more of Paddy Considine is worth including, and on a more frustrating note, as on the nose as Daemon's whole arc has been, you've legitimately still got people missing the point of him spending an entire season stewing in a haunted castle and acting like it's a waste of time. I don't think the on-the-nose nature of things in his subplot makes it bad, much as I adore the far subtler character work in other places.
The Tyrell’s did nearly the same as Rhaenyra in A Clash of Kings. The smallfolk ate it up then as well. Farces like this really do work in real life. The closest example I can think of is a bit reversed; Donald Trump ran his 2016 campaign targeting companies for outsourcing labor and then introduced tax legislation that actually incentivized outsourcing. I’m sure there are more examples.
The Trump example would be him delaying the stimulus checks so his signature could be on them. So many people believe that Trump actually gave them money when it was the Treasury that did that.
I can think of a better one: Adolf Hitler recruiting seniors, children and crippled people to "defend their homecountry" just to delay the allies winning a few more days which resulted in most of them dying in war or prison camps
@@maishaahmed915 and we shouldn't have gotten that money at all b/c that helped lead to the inflation we're in now that the Biden admin made much worse when they signed that next Save Act or whatever BS they called it, having to do w/all this once he was in. Our govt (mostly state govts following corrupt Fauci) should've never forced businesses to shut down in the first place and dictate who's essential and non-essential. Our fore fathers wouldn't have done that and they did have real pandemics in their day too. Not once did they think to put a clause in the Constitution to suspend our rights due to a pandemic. Our govts both local and federal have only hurt our nation's economy by what they did and have done for over a century to us. They need to stay the hell out of it and let us handle ourselves accordingly. People lost everything and committed suicide over this yet most don't think of them now.
@@adedayooyegunju828there are definitely walls around the city facing the water. The mudgate, which faces the mouth of the blackwater, is a huge part of the battle of the blackwater. It's the only gate in the series that gets significant attention lol.
Must be that teleportation device that d&d used the last 2 seasons in got. And how did amend get to dragonstone so fast supersonic vagar. Plus way too much Hollywood woke DEI written into casting and storyline pleaseeeeee stop trying to brainwash us when we just want to be entertained and relax.
13:23 To me, the dialogue between Ulf and the madame was supposed to feel forced and rehearsed. We saw Rhaenyra send her handmaiden to King's Landing a few episodes ago and she immediately went to the girl Aegon assaulted. It seemed to me that they recruited people like the Madame to spew that script out and sow the seeds of rebellion.
Yeah.. it's just you. I found Hugh's performance stellar... in stark contrast to Ulf's road to conquest... but Hugh ?!? You could feel the raw emotion in his voice and goddamn.. praise his actions !
how did you feel when Jon Snow yelled at a dragon in Season 8? Also, I think it's more the emotions leading up to that point, I just didn't think it was being sold well.
@@RussellB I've successfully blocked season 8 out of my mind, please don't remind me. I think it was set up and executed magnificently... well.. except for the Ulf part.
@@ShryceThe Ulf part was ulful. Seriously though, it was so underwhelming and baffling. I would love to know what Silverwing saw in Ulf. Literally the first human to come along, and that's that.
Rhaenyra was doing a solid for her children by also clearing out most of the bastards in the vicinity in one fell swoop and makes it easier to control the ones who survived if they don't have a rabble to deal with. It also makes it harder for the seeds to organize. She gets to do it under the guise of greater good and it was the will of the dragon something, something. Give Hugh time, they've retconned the character _but_ there is an opportunity soon for Hugh to go off the chain that would fit this 'new' personality they've given him...
I felt it was great lead up to a finale. I know people were expecting the pre finale to be the crazy ep but thats fine with me. Next episode is gonna go crazy!
You mention that next season is the final season, though after season 1's success are now greenlit for 4, which likely contributes to the slower pace of season 2.
This has become my favorite channel. Not only an summary, but a true breakdown, and honest take is refreshing. Esp when some of the more commercial breakdowns are a bit bland.
"When they try to show this moment as seeming cool, it makes the flaws in the plan look more like plot holes" - I think you absolutely said it there mate, nail on the head. I feel the reason it's hard to care about Hugh is because we've simply been told that we should feel sorry for him, been informed that his story is quite sad. They never took the time to sit in it or build it out a bit, to make that sorrow real and not just information: extra scenes, more personality, more details, anything would have made him 'real' to the audience. We've been told he is a blacksmith, could we see his smithy, the circumstances in the shop? "No, they only want to pay for eight episodes this year, and can't afford another set we'd only use once'. I hear you have a sick daughter Hugh, what's she like? Does she do or think anything? "Well you see she's very sick, far too sick to have any lines or distinguishing traits. It should simply be enough that she's very sad and very sick and I'm VERY worried about it." Because the time we spend with Hugh feels incredibly arbitrary and threadbare, we sit in those scenes struggling to engage with him as a person, wondering why we're here, why we have to be worried about this guy and his sick daughter and the mom who wants to go to Tumbleton. We're being told it's sad. But it's not sad for us, the audience, because they didn't do the legwork to make us care. It's a classic novice writing mistake and it's rather embarrassing - you can't simply tell your audience to care about someone or like them or hate them or pity them - the author has to earn it! And because we've burned this time with him as a character, knowing he'll have to matter to the REAL characters in such a thin season at some point, it ruins the tension in the dragon taming scene; the audience knows he exists to succeed. The same is true with the boat brothers who live on the dock set. We are told they are brothers and that they like each other and there is this heavy stuff with Corlys. But the scenes with them never have tension, drive, personality; they never come to life. So we check in with them weekly and deduce their purpose early. The story fails them and the audience has now wasted it's time on them. Let's contrast that with Ulf, whose scenes work much better this season. Ulf did not have a single scene that was just about him; every scene he appeared in, even the one with his big conman speech, featured another character that we know better than him. He isn't some drunk nobody we're dedicating a whole sluggish scene to - he's one of many people who is finding out the ratcatchers have been hung, or he's the life of the party which suddenly stiffens up when Aegon appears, or he's the surrogate representative of kings landing who receives Mysaria's propaganda and reflects the strain of the blockade. Moreso, don't end his first few scenes with him, moving on to the Dog and then Aegon, always having a different clear and understandable storytelling purpose in mind. The show isn't telling us to like and feel sorry for Ulf; it's using him for the shows sundry purposes. While in those scenes, he is granted opportunities to quietly develop his character in the background, stealing an apple and chickening out and seeming disappointed by his soup... Can you imagine Hugh doing anything small or mundane like that in his scenes? Something golden and humanizing? Not for nothing, but I do also think that Ulf's actor bringing a little extra something that a lot of other casting choices in this show have not been able to do. Ultimately, Ulf feels a bit more like Ros from GoT - a normal lowborn person who simply exists in this world, and the show happily brings her back for sexposition and little humanizing moments for Theon and then others; eventually, she feels real as a character in her own right. Hugh feels more like the GoT sand snakes - kind of glum, grim characters we check in with weekly because we presume they will matter, never being given the grace or time to feel real, forever trapped in this space of no self awareness or internal life. If character introductions and development feels like a chore or a checklist, the audience will reject it. It's not a science, it's an art.
This season is the deep breath before the plunge. It's not many pages in the book but they filled it out with actually getting some sense of who the dragon seeds are. I'm happy enough with this season. Possibly because I knew how heavy the first half could be and turned out to be.
I think it's important here as we note Rhaenyra's "descent" into fanaticism, that we recognise her isolation from her councillors, is largely their fault. They only ever wanted to listen to Daemon, and to some extent Rhaenys. They were quick to blame her for Blood & Cheese with nary a rebuke to Daemon for his war crimes. At every turn they challenged her and tried to have her moved while they made war decisions. Their patriarchy pushed her into Mysaria's arms. She vocally asked, "what would you have me do?" and there was no response. Mysaria has provided her with a propaganda scheme, rivalling Otto's and pushed her to use dragon seeds. We should never lose sight of the role patriarchal norms play in fostering and perpetuating the Dance of the Dragons. Had Rhaenyra been given constructive council, instead of just "no's" then she'd be less inclined to isolate herself from her council who hold Daemon War Crimes Targaryen as some bastion though he has struggled to win over the river lands.
i hate the fact that they’re making rhaenyra daenerys lite. she can want the throne and even speak to others about the gods and their choosing her, without actually believing she is chosen by the gods. she could have been just cunning, she could have even been purely honest. but not the mad queen arc all over again…..😩
i agree, rhaenyra just plays out to me as dany 2.0. another girlboss with no real character flaws who only exists to be worshipped by all her yes men around her, or alternatively put down so she can conveniently give people a beating. I would have preferred it if they'd made her mad and vengeful from the get go like in the books, instead of making the same tired message of Men Bad, Women Good via her councillors. The end of Season 1 left us with the notion that the Rhaenyra we were going to see in Season 2 would be vengeful, angry and determined, and that hasn't happened at all
@@Shorjok The writers are so bad: end of season 1 she looked like she was about to finally be like the book character, nope. Then in this season after returning from kings landing and the awful Septa Rhaenyra plot which was GOT S8 quality, she says to everyone “there are those who would mistake my caution for weakness” she then proceeds to do nothing as usual.
@@Shorjok Also you would be surprised just how stark the contrast is between the shows portrayal of men and women characters. They’ve spent the whole season making the men look like insecure little boys and the women as rational level headed figures.
i completely agree- the dragonseed's halfhearted inclusion was a really big problem for the dramatic catharsis if this episode. there may the bones of great arcs in the future for ulf & hugh, but the show failed to convince me that they shouldnt haveonly been properly established when they claimed dragons. but, hotd is roadmapped for 4-5 seasons at the moment, so hopefully that alleviates some of your concern about the momentum of the show
"House of the Dragon never quite feels sure how much this is a bleak, brooding, Shakespearian tragedy and how much this is a dark satire-" I get that you're concerned about how these two sides of the story are balanced, but I really don't think one diminishes the other. Have you read a Shakespearian tragedy? They always have A LOT of humor. Hamlet would be a really funny comedy, if everyone didn't die in the end.
Certainly, I say there definitely is a good balance to find and, at times, the show gets it perfect. At other times, I think it plays scenes too serious, only to then pivot into comic relief Ulf. Shakespeare admittedly isn't the best example because you're correct, all his plays have comic relief characters, and that works for them, but here that makes for jarring tonal shifts. Never awful, this is still a very good show, but it's not quite found the perfect balance yet either
The point at 15 minutes is missing a lot of the nuance that isn't told and shown and then missing it. It isn't perfect, but there are a few things that you have to think before arriving to the point. No shade, just a very common misconception that I want to try to discuss. Like, ulf riding with a mount wasn't an accident, it was Rhaenyra flexing trying to save lives. She cares about the collective, not a few bastards. It is in line and makes sense from season to season.
Perhaps if I perceived it as a satire I might still be watching the actual show instead of occasionally viewing your recaps. I am In total agreement that 2 seasons deep is way too long for the central plot points to waver this much. Also, it’s honestly insulting that the show runners have now gone through nearly 2 full seasons of literal tension build up with very little dramatic payoff.
I think Alicent might just like swimming. Old Town and King's Landing are both port cities. So, as a child, she might have swum a bit with Rhaenyra or her other friends.
One of the things that drives me nuts is to have so much focus on hereditary traits and have most Targaryen descendant to be so visually obvious you wonder how nobody noticed them… and it goes above the hair colour. They all have to share the same long hair Viking type haircut. So you really get this Jojo character effect that made it obvious who would play a part in the story. Hugh doesn’t look like a guy struggling in poverty with his cool outfit and cleanliness. I think the actors aren’t great either but it would have helped to have a full episode dedicated only to their arc, with the death of the child be on screen for example. There was so much redundancy of ideas in the show there was room for that, we’d just lose some Daemon nonsense and we’d have it in 8 episodes no problem
I think the "dragoncoif" and its variations is a common male hairstyle in the HotD universe, really. Amongst others. And might I point out that Hugh in particular might deliberately effect a "Targaryen" look, if unconsciously. He believes (and I'll be fascinated to find out if he's right, they'd better tell us) his mother was a sister of Baelon, son of Jaehaerys and Alisanne. That would be taking a plotline from Fire & Blood and giving it a twist.
@@TheRealHerbaSchmurba When everybody around him his dirty? Absolutely not. He lost his daughter from starvation, works the iron for a leaving. Time to wake up buddy .
I agree with your point of view. I think, however, that the objectives set for each character in each narrative line are interesting and I like them, although I think that in some cases there are execution problems. Does this have to do with the writers' strike?
The season in general was good, but it felt like at many moments, things were ground to a halt. I'm not saying it was simply "too slow", but the characters, especially Rhaenyera, were seen in emotional moments, and there was an impression that something would happen to them, but then it was just back to business as usual.
The first season was paced fine imo, it had momentum to it. The problem is the contrast that exists between that and this season, it should be at least consistent
I definitely think most of my problems with the season (which honestly, I don't have a ton, I've loved a lot of the season) comes from them only having 8 episodes. We needed to go from "Addam has a dragon" to "Hugh and Ulf have dragons" so quickly that they didn't really have time to do the Dragonseeds in the way I think they'd have liked to with 10. I feel like having scenes where Rhaenyra confronts Addam, she realizes bastards could claim dragons, she has the message sent to King's Landing, it gets to a ton of apparently real Targaryen bastards but seemingly not the Greens or anyone at all anti-Rhaenyra, they collect them all and get them to Dragonstone, they try the Dragonseeds out on Vermithor, and Hugh and Ulf end up with dragons ALL being in the same episode and a lot of them back-to-back is waaaaayyy too condensed. We didn't really get to sit with any of that, and there couldn't be any wrinkles (like Larys finding out and sending someone to go with the Dragonseeds to get intel or to pull an Arryk or whatever, just something). I think they could have made us care a bit more about Hugh and Ulf with more time too. I think a lot of the absurdity comes from us not being able to sit with the events before we're off to the next like I felt we did in episode 2 (hands down my favorite).
I'd like to think you're right, but it sounds like based on what they've said behind the scenes, that they cut it to 8 so they didn't have to do another big battle this season as it costs too much. They just suck at pacing and telling the story the best way possible sadly.
As time goes on I've gone from not caring about the show's meta-narrative clearly polarizing viewers, to lamenting HBO's "obvious" mistake in doing so, to my current impression that it was the point the whole time to force viewers to double down and back-rationalize their hot takes just like the characters have been doing under many peoples' noses. Watching people complain that the show is too fast, AND too slow, AND deviates from the source material AND sticks too much to the source material (but only the parts they dont like) AND is biased to one side, AND trying too hard to be neutral, AND relies on spectacle AND is boring AND is one note AND is all over the place, all with the same confidence, has been interesting.
I get what you're saying with the dark-satire aspect; I was under the impression that the majority of the Dragonseeds were among the smallfolk of Dragonstone & Driftmark - it's fine for Hugh & Ulf, & a handful of others to be smuggled out of Kingslanding- but _dozens_ of them? It *did* come across as more than a bit farcical. And I think the word you were looking for in your WorldAnvil bit was 'swathe'...
I do wonder, how necessary are dragonriders to wage war? Daenerys seemed ready to conquer Westeros with her 3 dragons while only ever really riding 1 of them. She didn’t know she would encounter a secret Targaryen in Jon Snow and didn’t seem too concerned with anyone else riding the other 2 despite being ready to use them to conquer the Seven Kingdoms. Can Raenyera not command the other dragons without riding them? Kind of like she tamed Vermithor in the scene this episode? Just a thought.
Dragons will not leave their roost, or not very far, without a rider. They will not attack, they won't listen. In the book, Dany has a hard time even just making Drogon listen to her and he is her bonded dragon. They are attempting to fix the glaring mistakes Thrones made that are irrational and so far from source accurate to be comical. Arrax and Syrax can take Kings Landing alone yes, but even together they stand no chance against Vhagar. Maybe Daemon who is so bonded to his dragon to not even have to give it verbal commands, could take on Vhagar, but it would be extremely dangerous.
@@jessjess23brooks89 Remember how Daemon tried to get Rhaenys and Meleys to storm King's Landing with him and Caraxes? And how she thought he was nuts?
I loved the episode, because season 1 had questionable choices by the creatives i'm just happy seeing what feels more like a singular style/approach. I love Ulf and the comedy and we'll see how he is used as a dragonrider and outside his own comfort zone of king's landing. Absurdism is always up my alley, comedic or not so i'd welcome that being bolstered but if the show stays as consistent stylewise where we can have both nuclear devastation on the human level AND Ulf funny pub vibes, i'll be more than happy
I'm with you on a lot of your points. I'm feeling a bit disillusioned lately... I seem to just like any scene with dragons. They could have spent more time on the other characters and world events, we get that Alicent and Rhaenyra and Daemon are mopey and have over burdened minds, and we don't need to see that over and over.
I think the answer to many of your questions, including why we aren't getting a 10 ep season, is 'the writers' strike'. Also, introducing a teenage Daeron this late in the season and having him ageing up in real time into S3 might be too much of a jolt.
@@debragrogan6235 have no idea why they didn’t introduce Daeron in episode one of this season let alone last season. I think I saw a clip of him in the finale trailer so they’ll have him introduced at the very end of the season
I think they were so busy with the characterization of the dragon that they forgot Hugh's. It felt to me like it was supposed to be a demonstration of Vermithor looking for the right keeper. I *think* they were trying to show that Vermithor wanted the one who would protect others - he clearly cottoned on to him repeatedly saving that girl and trying to save others. And maybe selected Hugh because he was trying to "tank" and draw attention and wasn't afraid. But in being so obsessed with the CGI monster, they made Hugh look... Mad, but in a cr4zy fun Mad Max way, not with grief and abandon. I think they should've focused on making sure both of those character arcs were given attention in that scene.
Rhaenyra's desicion regarding dragonseeds is one of the reasons house targaryen lost it legitimacy and respect. There was Maegor as a example of Mad king but after him there were two peaceful rulers.
The fact that the Targaryens house was divided and millions of small folk died because of the civil war that ensued is why the Targaryens lost its legitimacy and respect. That is the fault of the usurpers, not Rhaenyra.
@@carastone3473 "usurpers" Aegon is the eldest son. He inherits. That's the law. Rhaenyra being named heir was legally nullified when her father had a son.
I think we're seeing gaps that arise from adapting a Story Summary to screen. The original text is not a scene-by-scene POV narration of thoughts, feelings, dialogue and action. The gaps should contain connective tissue between the characters. Think of all the famous character interaction in GoT: Ned and Robert, Arya and the Hound, Jamie and Brienne, Jon and Ygritte, Tyrion and Bronn, Ned and Arya, Brienne and Tormund, Sam and Jon, Bran and Hodor, the list goes on and on. As a viewer there's much less of that to watch in HotD. Most characters seem isolated from or at odds with the main cast. I think the identity of the show is as I said: a Story Summary adaption. "Rather than a novel, Fire & Blood takes the form of a scholarly treatise about the Targaryen dynasty written by a historian." That's what it feels like.
you didn’t buy hugh claiming vermithor, but you bought ulf claiming silverwing? also, there is comic relief in hamlet, which is a tragedy. and sometimes the comedy of life is the very tragedy of it.
I think the only real problem with this episode (and don't get me wrong it is a good episode) is that it doesn't feel like the second to last episode of the season but episode 7 of a 10 episode season. Likely because it was meant to be that originally. We have known since before the season aired that the showrunners wanted 10 episodes but HBO only gave them 8. That means the writers would have either needed to revise all of the episodes to get to the same endpoint they had planned for Season 2 or push the final two episodes to Season 3 and to me at least it seems as if the have done the latter. I am honestly a little worried that episode 8 will not feel like a finale for the season and will leave too much set-up and build-up unaddressed until season 3 but I hope I am wrong and we will get a satisfying climax next week
Totally agree! The show is too narrow the only characters you feel for are the blacks and the greens and Corlys. No side characters like the faceless men or the red worm or the Dothraki….
i think you mentioned that you havent read the book. the riots are actually supposed to be a plot for later and it IS supposed to build up to something big but we're not there yet and its crazy that they started this plot this early seemingly to pin the blame on Team Green hoarding food for the dragons. potential season 3 SPOILERS AHEAD:: these riots are not supposed to be an "Aemond is a bad ruler" plot (not that he was a good one). theyre supposed to be a "rhaenyra is a bad ruler" plot when she is in power and they build up to a huge loss for rhaenyra, arguably the biggest loss she ever has. so the problem with this is that theyre making it so that The Greens are the original cause of the riots so when rhaenyra takes over (which she should be doing early season 3) she will be inheriting the mess The Greens made because god forbid rhaenyra be a spendthrift ruler who starves her people to throw a big lavish party for Joffrey (a thing she actually does in the book) or generally mismanages her money, one thing leads to another and she starts beheading people like she's getting paid to do it. This is how she earns the nickname "Maegor with teats", referring to a previous king, Maegor The Cruel.
It's boring as heck....love the dragons but too much emphasis on miserable drippy queens.....Thankfully I have six seasons of GOT to cheer myself up with.
The show has a huge task in developing a lot of speculation where the book states events vaguely but factually. Their problem is they keep doing lame Hollywood gimmicks to keep us invested because they don't have enough faith in the story--therefore we get awkward themes more relevant to modern culture than historical.
@@MG-js8bn English do you speak it, OP speaks the truth. They don’t want to have a gritty war story of grey morally reprehensible characters destroying each other but instead a good side vs a bad side with a few grey characters sprinklers about. Imo the feminist themes have become far too prevalent and overshadow all the other themes in the show, which was not the intention of the book at all.
There's something I don't like about Rhaenyra that I can't quite put my finger on. I stopped watching last week. I didn't realize this video would discuss so I am tuning off. Just wanted to share my opinion. I'm personally done with this show
10:55 I agree w/this take and you're the only one I've heard talk about that. I feel this show in general doesn't do a good enough job of getting us to attach ourselves to the characters enough, starting w/the way too fast paced season 1 which imo should've been stretched to two seasons so we get to know some of the characters and their relationships more, especially things like the politics around and relationship itself b/t Deamon and Leana, and then Leanor and Rhaenyra and Harwin. We could've gotten some more political intrigue like we all enjoyed from GOT inserted here especially between Corlys and Rhaenys and Daemon and Rhaenyra as it doesn't really make sense for them to support them seeing as they think they killed Leanor. And now this season they just repeat the same themes and messages to us over and over again, and we don't know why we see these random small folk at all unless there's going to be some pay off later. And yes, the show is not using Corlys and other characters as much as they should be and Rhaenyra and Jace just repeated the same things over and over again for most of season 2, whining about not being utilized, and everyone's communicating so poorly for this to be a believable war. I agree w/you at 14:10 too, like where is Larys? Why aren't they showing that he at least knows about this and is allowing this to happen? Otherwise it's just making him stupid all of the sudden when he was so keen on what was happening in KL before.
A really small point but I dont think theyve casted Daeron yet, so we might not see him. Nettles too, but it *EDITED CAUSE I REALIZED I WAS BEING ONE OF THOSE BOOK FANS*
Hugh LET his daughter die. He preferred that over losing status and going to tumbleton. Aka “YOU’LL HAVE ME TURN BEGGAR??!!!” as his response to Hey lets save our daughter
I dont know... I really enjoyed this episode! It was probably my favorite this season. I feel people are beeing to critical of the season so far, but oh well.
I feel like this episode should've been the second to last episode of a season because there's too much set up and not enough pay off Meaning we speculate for 2 years meaning whatever the result is it won't pay off what people expect Idk I just feel like this episode needed one more episode
I feel they have found a balance between the ridiculous and the deadly serious. I guess that is what life feels like for me most days. But you know for the dragons😂
I agree that the dragonseeds scene wasn't what it should have been and made that exact point of already knowing who was going to get the dragons thus not going to die, but Hugh was ok, it's Ulf I have my problems with. Maybe Hugh's character could have been fleshed out more, but he gave us a good impression of what he's supposed to be like (and the beard really helps). Unlike Ulf, who at this point seems like a clown for a cheap shot every other episode. It's weird, but Adam was even worse (as in more out of nowhere).
Absolutely loved episode 207 because of the dragons and how much of the dragons we saw❤ I’ve given up on Emma as Rhaenyra, which is so sad because she was my favorite character written in the books, but played by Emma Darcy it’s just a farce she’s ruined the character for me. Where is that Daenerys power that we want to see? Millie Alcott as Rhaenyra is 1000 xs better than how Emma Darcy is doing and honestly they should’ve just kept the casting role with Millie and just made her look older.
2:50 that kiss exchange between them will never be readdressed or explained it’s just going to drop like a hot potato because it wasn’t in the script and it wasn’t in the books it was suggested on set at the time by Emma Darcy, most likely because SHE was turned on in the moment😂
You're dumb as bricks if you think Emma D'arcy is the reason Rhaenyra isn't as compelling of a character. Emma's brilliant, the writing for Rhaenyra, not so brilliant.
@@kaiotic4910 I was aligning with what the creator of the video was saying; she’s been very reserved and lack of passion and conviction. Emma was a poor choice because she had no understanding for her role. She admits in interviews she never watched GOT and never read any of GRRM works. She is being a lazy actress in my opinion cause she hasn’t done research on understanding the character she’s meant to play. The best actors & actresses allow their character to shine strong while their personality takes a back seat. Johnny depp as captain Jack sparrow is a great example, a lot of people think of captain Jack when they see Johnny. When I watch Emma’s performance, as a super fan of the books, I don’t see enough of Rhaenyra being portrayed I just see the actress, Emma Darcy. Just to be clear, there’s no hate against the actress or anything like that. This is just an opinion of a super fan who has worked in film and television for 16 years. 🙏🏼
No, not nonsense-there seems to be a general anxiety because of this shortened season with its subversive pacing is coming to a close. The clue was in the part where you referred to the next episode as the final season.. It’s hotd-jonesing.
I have my complaints about season 2 Rhanyera, Dameon and Alicent has been a little lost and quite inactive and the conflict has been stuck in build up even though season 1 was a purely build up prequel season. I'm afraid that HBO because season 1 was great is gonna drag this show out to keep people on their platform, honestly I have read fire & blood twice and 3 seasons would be enough I don't want more Daemon dream scenes, Rhanyera pacing a castle and Alicent in the woods scenes
I'm deeply disheartened by the decline of this show. Season 1 was a masterful depiction of Westeros, but the current seasons lack the same essence. The writing, world building, direction, and storytelling have become erratic. HBO should acknowledge this and return to their previous filming style. It is imperative that they entreat Miguel Sapochnik to resume control of the show, or it succumb to further disappointment.
According to George, all the writing was done before the strikes, and it was a writer's strike instead of actors or something so in theory it shouldn't have
Hum... I don't think this season is a chef-d'oeuvre. There are some defaults. For example, the introduction of the new characters is not very good ( I didn't read the book, so i was a bit lost with them). However, i love this season. I don't think it's too slow or too fast. I don't think daemon's ark is boring. It's a pity to see how spectators want only see action, battles, dragons... It's impossible for one simple reason : it's too expansive for that kind of show ! Remenber ! It takes 4 seasons for GOT to show us three little babys dragons ! Half of the show ! So, instead, we have a tragedy ! We have caracters who doesn't want war, blood, but... they will ! It's a simple tragedy ! And i love, in a tragedy, these moments more funny like we have withe Ulf ! It's not a problem to mix a bit of comedy with tragedy ! It was done many times in the story of litterature... So, yes, this season is not perfect, at all, there are mistakes, and i regret it. But episode 4 gave me chills like not many movies did in my life ! I love most of caracters. I love how this season makes Aegon II horrible but also worthy of pity. The same for Aemond... I love Daemon' arc. The progress of a caracters is not only driven by his actions. It can be more inner. And it's the case here... So, no it's not a new GoT. It' not THE ultimate show. But it's a good show. And it's worth to see that show, even if, yes, it's not perfect. The irony is Got season 8 had plenty batlles , plenty dragons, but people hated this season . Season 2 of HoD has few battles, more good work on the psychology of the caracters, but people found that borying ! Eye, what do you want ? The show never plan to take 8 or 10 seasons like GoT. With 3 or 4 seasons, more battles = more story rush ! Choose your poison !
I don’t really agree with the Identity section of this video. Saying something should be more absurd doesn’t really paint a good picture of what you were expecting 15:36. What is absurd? If it’s not serious, what is it supposed to be? Funny? And the show is definitely not a satire in any way. What is it satirizing?
But I do have to agree with you about Ulf. Why is everything we see with him so comedic? I get needing relief but it does feel jarring to watch people burn to death and get eaten, to “omg, you’re not gonna eat me buddy? Ha ha, good boyyy”
I'm not saying it has to be absurd necessarily, but that when they play moments too straight or "cool", it's harder to buy them and makes them feel a bit less human, and yeah I do find Ulf a bit jarring
They should make a movie (all in Valyrian) about the Targaryens leaving Valyria for Dragonstone. That’d be more compelling than all the Alicent scenes this season.
im just glad others are getting treated like the black characters and have no type of character development. We seen them on a ship, but not out at sea. lol why not show the block-aid etc? why not show how the dragon chased Adam, especially him being the first out the bunch for a dragon to choose him. Corlys says 3 words an episode, is he even important anymore? all the other black kids are spread out and one has to get someone else's story because they can't think of anything else to do for Lady Rhaena. At least Lady Bale got to ride and "scout" out an area.
You're right about Hugh . Considering how they set-up him leaving his childless wife, I expected him to be even more bold in confronting the dragom. I was disappointed that he waited until almost everyone was dead - his courage would have been emphasised if he stepped out when there was more menance and choice.
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I do think that we'll (hopefully) see more of Hugh's anger going forward, especially now that he can harness that destructive energy into literal destruction via Vermithor.
I'll take that as a hint that a tonne of destruction is definitely on the cards
He's got to have some repressed anger about Aegon not keeping his word about paying for the scorpions in advance and that possibly resulting in his kid dying. I definitely would.
The king promised him livestock
Oh…we will…
I just knew Quinn was a smart guy, and whaddaya know, I find him here. Also, love how they handled Hugh's character and can’t wait for what's next.
I found the dragon claiming scene really disturbing. Seeing all the forgotten illegitimate family being used by a queen who doesn't really see them beyond their possibility of helping her win back a throne is how I saw it.
They didn't have to answer the call of course but seeing all the characters, whose birth wasn't their fault, who are despised or forgotten, and whose story was etched into their faces before seeing it immediately and carelessly thrown away in a cult-like manner, something in that really shook me.
It was a good decision. People have been complaining that Rhaenyra is too perfect or too good. I think her letting these innocent* people from kings landing shows her dark side or a bit of cruelty.
Good. That’s how it should have affected you. Team Black aren’t the good guys either.
These stories are about how power always corrupts, how those who are born into it are nearly always ill equipped to wield it (even if they’re not actively evil), and it’s always the “small folk” who suffer at their ineptitude. GRRM is attempting to create a sort of anti-fantasy, in contrast to the works of Tolkien and his successors, where blood and birth right yield honour and heroism.
The Greens, The Blacks, even the more honorable houses like the Tullys and Starks are all the privileged beneficiaries of an oppressive, bigoted system built on violence.
There’s nothing noble about Nobility.
@@kenydemeza agreed, it makes sense for her character to do and removes the bias we saw towards the blacks in season 1. We're seeing the callousness in both sides as the war affects the innocents
@@MrOtistetrax yeah, too true, too true. I appreciate the challenge of realising the characters you once enjoyed watching or rooted for to some degree were always uncaring and capable of evil. Brings that anti-fantasy message home that we realise from our own country's historic figures
What she did was a profanity. Her Valyrian dragon keepers wouldn't be part of it, it was like some kind of hideous blood sacrifice ritual in exchange for destructive power.
That's a good point that Rhaenyra seems to be circling back to faith this episode to justify her actions, much like Alicent had historically. Religion didn't seem to have much purpose for her until she either consciously or unconsciously realized she can use it to justify some questionable choices because "greater good!"
I think Rhaenyra is a slow burn. Her storyline basically shadows Daenerys, a woman fighting for a the iron throne that loses everything and goes mad. After the backlash of Dany going insane so fast I think they’re trying to handle Rhaenyra with extra caution. Sometimes going too slow with her development can seem to harm the characterisation but I think it’ll pay off when this series is done. I like the self righteousness she’s got going on lately.
So slow it never catches fire... I mean her paralyzed state is a terrible plot point. What did she actually do in season 2? Literally sit at dragon stone all season long
I would say the same of daemon too. He did literally nothing all season. It just feels like filler. I mean he did get the Riverland to his side (maybe) it took 8 episodes for the king concort to get the Riverlands lord to swear fealty??? Come on guys.. this is obvious filler bs
I think you're somewhat justified in arguing Daemon's arc is filler, because it has been slow and meandering in places, but I have to admit, it's one of my pet peeves when people refer to character-based plotlines as filler
The pace is adapted to the target audience. They learned the lesson from GoT and the "OMG I didn't see it coming, it's not me it's BAD WRITING": dumb people don't get things if you say them once and quickly move to the next thing.
So everything is drawn out and shown or said multiple times. Foreshadowing is repeated too. That's why it feels slow. Good GoT dialogue was dense, with characters speaking themselves out for the audience to make sense of. Here is it mostly repetitive, simple and often made of characters lecturing each other.
And yes, this is a remake of the Daenerys arc.
The fact that her show storyline "shadows Daenerys" just shows how much the show messed up, Rhaenyra and Daenerys had no similarities whatsoever, Rhaenyra was always a lot more similar to Cersei. But she is being pushed as the new Daenerys to be painted as the tragic hero of the story when she just wasn't.
Total props to the effects teams this episode. The dragons felt so real, like actual creatures in some moments. Like the moment Vermithor first showed up, you could practically feel the wind as he approached, smell his rancid sheep breath, touch his uneven skin. I can't completely put my finger on why, but the violence on the "dragon seed" people felt a lot more visceral and horrifying than the violence earlier this season, such as at Rook's Rest. It just too real hearing bones break and fresh amesh in animal jaws and enflamed on the ground. It just felt like.... especially pointless suffering. Another example of working class people just fighting for a hope of gettting ahead and having it LITERALLY blow up in their faces. Did Rhaenyra even give them proper informed consent they might die? And shutting the doors behind them... I was furious!! These people are technically her blood and she was way to willing to sacrifice them all in a most horrendous way. This was the first scene this season I was truly horrified and shocked... which probably isn’t good of me considering "blood and cheese" at the beginning.... 🫠🫠 but to be fair that violence I was expecting.
I feel lucky to be around to see dragons come alive so well. I feel like before GoT and HotD there was like... 30 minutes combined screen time of decent dragon FX in all of film history.
Unfortunately in this time and age, a queen didn’t need consent. It was considered an honour to die for a noble cause.
@@RussellB agreed!
@byttercandy yeah, but there are literal dragons 😂🐉 we already established that realism is out the window so we can hope for informed consent too 😅 in theory
I didn't like the way they portrayed Blood and Cheese at all though and the way they did it I just couldn't get horrified like I expected to from how it's written in the books. They took the major part out of it and have completely changed Helena's character just to give her a bigger role I guess yet we still rarely ever see her. She just acts completely weird and like her own child's death didn't affect her much afterwards. I didn't like that change at all.
Oh i like the tone constrast between Hugh and Ulf. It shows how different and unpredictable dragons are. One kills everyone and chooses the one that stands in front of him in defiance, while the other just chills and then picks the social butterfly who's going to have a blast riding him.
Maybe its because I do laugh a lot (in a good way) in every episode. My gosh I laughed when Tully was roasting Daemon. So brilliant.
So just in the same way I laughed in a celebratory way when Ulf was riding above King's Landing 😂😂🎉🎉
What bothers me with the people around Rhaenyra, is that they kinda forget that she's isolated. Jace told her to find dragonseeds, and got offended that she found bastard lowborn ones. Yeah, I get his perspective, but at the same time, everyone around her seems to forget that she doesn't yet have many allies locked down. To her knowledge, the Riverlands are still ambiguous, she has for sure the northmen but no known dragonseeds in the north, and the Valyrian houses. But that's more or less it. How can she approach high born people with possible valyrian heritage and have them come claim dragons, when she isn't certain of their loyalties? And at the same time, how can she do that while also keeping it under wraps. I'm sure she wouldn't want the greens to find out that she's trying to find dragon riders. And at the same time, let's say that hypothetically she approaches potential high born riders, will their houses come to her support if she brings them on and they end up getting eaten by her dragons? Even with their consent, still it's a jab. It is callous to say, but it is true in the context of a show like this, but the common people don't hold as much value as high born people do. If she brings 50 people of low birth to claim dragons, and only 2 do, while 48 get killed, in their eyes it's "big woop". If she brought 50 high born though, and had 48 of them killed, it would be a big deal. I mean, only one high born died trying to tame a dragon, and everyone is bitching about it. Why would she risk that many high born house's loyalty and support?
I just appreciate someone speaking on the show without relying on comparing it to the canon stories
I honestly don't know how we going to fit so much in the last episode, it feels like we are just getting started
yeah i feel like there must be more seasons at this rate
Felt so bad for Jace this ep and throwing those people right into the pit with only a little pep talk is wild. Tbh the only highborn family you could trust with a dragon is one of extreme loyalty and honor like the Starks.
I see parallels of the dragon seed storyline that will mirror what Dany will go through in the remaining books. She desperately wants riders for her dragons to complete the, "dragon has three heads" prophecy. But logistically, what does that look like?
I was rather impressed with them finally coming out and stating that Jace (and maybe Joffrey later) knows exactly who his father was, and who he wasn't, and what that means to his eventual coming to the Iron Throne. Yet even when confronted as she is, Rhaenyra sidesteps the question her son asked her. She doesn't admit it, but she doesn't deny it, either.
@@blaubeer8039 fair enough, Ned with a dragon and Brandon with a dragon would be very different. Can't imagine Ned using it like Brandon would
@@Godzilla00X For Ned, a dragon would be a very large, fast horse that can light your campfire while travelling.
Brandon would be a stunt pilot to impress the girls, and he'd be doing strategic target practice: "We can accurately flame a deer from 200m. Now imagine that's a Lannister!"
@@thing_under_the_stairs rip littlefinger, hopefully Brandon doesn't decide to use his Dragon as his weapon lol
I love that Rhaenyra finally unleashed her fury, stripping off her previous reservations. Yes, everything she claimed made her sound righteous, but getting people who shared her blood burned for a "chance" of success is pure evil.
She may gave the small folks power, but only to further her own fight. None of the elites truly care for these people unless they served their purpose. They are just pawns in the game, so I'm excited how giving the dragon seeds flying nukes gonna bite the Blacks back in their asses.
I'm team black, but objectively, both sides (and also Daemon) are just selfish assholes throwing tantrums at each other. Vaerys warning about the dragon only seem more prominent this episode.
Do you mean... Viserys?
I think that Hugh’s anger is a bit different here. It’s more like “come on do your worst, my life already sucks”. But once he has a dragon and the power that comes from that position, his anger might become more of the vengeful sort.
I agree, he has more anger with himself now and he was goading for death, but I still found it too restrained personally
Oh yeah, same here. I felt it like defiance and protest against the unfairness of life more than pure anger. Some Zuko vibes but without the teenager vibes xP
I feel like hes more hiding in that anger than goading death. His scene with Vermithor doesnt feel to me like a man who is truly okay with dying. It feels more like hes done playing the good responsible guy.
He starts his story convinced he couldnt even steal food to feed his family, he ends up doing so, his daughter dies, it feels like hes at odds with his wife.
So to me he seems like hes thinking ''my life sucks, my wife sucks, my daughter is dead, im not even a good person, the only win ive gotten in recent memory is punching a guy to steal his food, and you know what? i might be a shit person but that felt good... so come on! kill me in a badass way or make me powerfull, both are better than a mundane shitty life
Not enough anger from Hugh? he's not projecting anger..he's ready to die. thats not anger
Performance wise, no. I just didn't buy the shout as someone willing death. It sounds too restrained to me
@@mylittlethoughttree
I mean his daughter has just died, he feels like he’s failed as a father. It makes him more ready to risk it all or nothing now. Either he dies as a way to punish himself for failure, or gain great power to make up for it. It’s like he is giving himself this trial to see if he is still worthy of being a husband to his wife, of himself.
@@baron6588exactly
@@mylittlethoughttree This is one of the strangest criticisms I have seen. I can't even imagine what you were wanting.
@mylittlethoughttree I didn't buy the shout either. I was watching waiting for him to do a follow up roar with veins popping and spit flying.
His ready to die rage wasn't believable
to me it felt like the whole first season was rushing to get to the war, but now that it's actually started in season 2, it feels like they are delaying it, and the reasons ring hollow...so to me the question is why were they rushing in the first place? only to completely stop the momentum?
money - the longer they can drag out the show the more money they can make
I feel this. I was hoping for more action setpieces almost every episode after Rook's Rest but eps 5 and 6 were really disappointing. 7 had action for sure, but did we really need to see rhaenyra's pawns get burned again? What was the point of Darklyn's death if we're just going to see the same scene repeated? Are we even going to see Aemond and Daemon face off this season? According to Alt Shift X this entire season has been based off like 20 pages from the book, and it shows, it feels quite dragged out at this point.
After GoT destroyed itself HotD had to prove itself on season 1, they did, so now they can go on the pace that they actualy want, i never felt like the series is boring or slow in any way, and idk why i see so many people complaining about this
The show only felt fast-paced in season one because of the time skips. They could have started the season later in the timeline, but I think the show would have been weaker if it had.
Personally, I liked that season one focused on King Viserys’s deterioration. I also really like the pace of this season. There are some issues, sure, but they don't detract from my overall enjoyment of the show. Honestly, I’d like the show less if it was just snappy spectacle.
@@MiraBoo I'm glad that it's working for you, but I found season 1 lacking not only cause of the strange writing decisions, but also the fact they didn't build up the characters or relationships we should care about..grrm even suggested they start the timeline even earlier, so as to build up the whole family dynamic and what leads to the big events
as for season 2, nothing that happened feels like it has consequences, we're literally right back where we started with most of the characters (for example daemon, literally coming to the conclusion we already had with him in season 1), or nonsensical (nyra, who wasn't allowed to feel anger or grief at her children's deaths and her motivation is whatever this is instead)...
could go on with corlys having nothing to do all season, and him also only having One moment to grieve rhaenys and bam we moved on....daemon has felt more abt jaehaerys dying than his own parents or other family members, they were completely fine after 2 days lol
the minimization of scenes with baela or rhaena is another big problem, showing that they didn't learn from season 1, where they were completely sidelined
and keeping in mind that only a very short time has passed in season 2 so the lack of reactions about not only this but everything that happens is Strange to say the least
If I had to guess a theme of this episode it would be letting go of what you have to take a risk for something more....
Rhaenyra is doing this, risking people's lives and loyalty at the chance of more dragons
The people coming to try to claim a dragon are leaving their lives and taking a huge risk
Green queen is leaving the castle, getting a glimpse of a simpler life she could live, risking her place
The new Tully lord is risking being eaten by an angry dragon to show his worth as a ruler and leader in a new role
Bhaelor, rhaena? Sorry unsure on which name is about to risk a wild dragon for the chance to join her sister and fight
So very well said ❤
Aegon calling Rhaenera the mother of Bastards wasn't far fetched at all good call 🤙 your grace 😎⚔️🐉🔥
100% agree with not feeling anything for the dragon riders. Your idea of not knowing anyone would've been better. Or get us to feel something for a potential dragon rider just to let Vermithor burn them, thus making us conflicted about Rhaenyra as a ruler.
How about aegon hanging rat catcher employe? Aegon raping Diana ? Aegon igrone his sister-wife?Aegon Stupidity let bunch idiot being kingsguard? Aegon bullying Aemond in Brothel? Aegon nervous when being confront by aemond in valyrian Language? Aegon not pay hugh hammer scorpion? Aegon bastard child in child fight ring smallfolk? Aegon idiotic fire otto as hand? Aegon dont know movement plan criston cole & Aemond And by the way, you even not hear that rhaenyra already tell dragonseed if want claim dragon, must prepare to die. That is BIG FREAKING WARNING.
I've thought the season has been paced well so far, but here in particular, I've honestly been struggling to imagine just how exactly they'll reach a satisfactory endpoint within the span of a single hour, hour and a half of television.
I don't think the Dragonseeds have had 'not enough,' so much as it's just YMMV on whether or not the performances work, wherein Hugh genuinely is more hit and miss than the rest (loved his big claiming sequence here though). Ulf feels like they just handed a comic relief character a weapon of mass destruction, and I loved the impression even he didn't seem to believe that he really was part-Targaryen and thought he'd made it up to boast to his mates and get drinks, and basically got peer-pressured into answering the call. He's been thrust into a role that's totally inappropriate for him, and that's already proving to be good comedy with great potential for drama.
I do think sometimes the mixed feelings are intentional. The sowing of the dragonseeds is a horrific and callous event and a clearly risky idea, but for the two of them that did "win" it, it truly is a triumphant, uplifting moment, and yet also one where power will clearly magnify the parts of themselves they never had the means to emphasize before. It's clear that Hugh always longed for power even as his wife only wanted for them to survive and be happy together, and Ulf's first instinct is to take his dragon on a joyride across enemy territory.
I really, really hope Rhaena doesn't claim the dragon in the Vale, that all of this is simply a rugpull for when the book-canon rider for which dragon that's likely meant to be shows up. I think it's a disservice to her character if the solution to all her insecurities turns out to just be taming an extra-special extra-scary dragon she rides in to turn the tides of a big battle in the nick of time, when the show has been so good so far at communicating that simply getting really good at killing people is not a good answer for the discrimination women face. If it happens, it also replaces probably the most interesting 'dragonseed' of them all, and sad thing is, while obviously not spoiling either's outcomes, I can see the entirely utilitarian writing reasons for the two's roles to be pushed together.
Do also gotta disagree on the latest Daemon dream. Anything that gives us more of Paddy Considine is worth including, and on a more frustrating note, as on the nose as Daemon's whole arc has been, you've legitimately still got people missing the point of him spending an entire season stewing in a haunted castle and acting like it's a waste of time. I don't think the on-the-nose nature of things in his subplot makes it bad, much as I adore the far subtler character work in other places.
Stop glazing the show, it doesn't deserve it.
The Tyrell’s did nearly the same as Rhaenyra in A Clash of Kings. The smallfolk ate it up then as well. Farces like this really do work in real life. The closest example I can think of is a bit reversed; Donald Trump ran his 2016 campaign targeting companies for outsourcing labor and then introduced tax legislation that actually incentivized outsourcing. I’m sure there are more examples.
The Trump example would be him delaying the stimulus checks so his signature could be on them. So many people believe that Trump actually gave them money when it was the Treasury that did that.
@@maishaahmed915 there’s probably a hundred examples of trump’s audience believing weird propaganda lol.
I can think of a better one: Adolf Hitler recruiting seniors, children and crippled people to "defend their homecountry" just to delay the allies winning a few more days which resulted in most of them dying in war or prison camps
@@maishaahmed915 and we shouldn't have gotten that money at all b/c that helped lead to the inflation we're in now that the Biden admin made much worse when they signed that next Save Act or whatever BS they called it, having to do w/all this once he was in. Our govt (mostly state govts following corrupt Fauci) should've never forced businesses to shut down in the first place and dictate who's essential and non-essential. Our fore fathers wouldn't have done that and they did have real pandemics in their day too. Not once did they think to put a clause in the Constitution to suspend our rights due to a pandemic. Our govts both local and federal have only hurt our nation's economy by what they did and have done for over a century to us. They need to stay the hell out of it and let us handle ourselves accordingly. People lost everything and committed suicide over this yet most don't think of them now.
I could’ve done without Alicent’s camping trip.
I didn't even think of how the dragonseeds got out of King's Landing after Aemond closed it off 🤦♀️
Walls and gates cannot be built facing the sea.
@@adedayooyegunju828there are definitely walls around the city facing the water. The mudgate, which faces the mouth of the blackwater, is a huge part of the battle of the blackwater. It's the only gate in the series that gets significant attention lol.
Mysaria has been shown before to have gold cloaks in her employ, not really that implausible
Must be that teleportation device that d&d used the last 2 seasons in got. And how did amend get to dragonstone so fast supersonic vagar. Plus way too much Hollywood woke DEI written into casting and storyline pleaseeeeee stop trying to brainwash us when we just want to be entertained and relax.
@@NonhackableGamer ahh yes! Once again it's all the woke mob's fault 🤧
13:23 To me, the dialogue between Ulf and the madame was supposed to feel forced and rehearsed. We saw Rhaenyra send her handmaiden to King's Landing a few episodes ago and she immediately went to the girl Aegon assaulted. It seemed to me that they recruited people like the Madame to spew that script out and sow the seeds of rebellion.
Yeah.. it's just you.
I found Hugh's performance stellar... in stark contrast to Ulf's road to conquest... but Hugh ?!? You could feel the raw emotion in his voice and goddamn.. praise his actions !
you're too easily impressed. It was a good moment, but it could have been much more raw and cathartic.
@@lawdogattorneyatlaw4886 I disagree.
how did you feel when Jon Snow yelled at a dragon in Season 8? Also, I think it's more the emotions leading up to that point, I just didn't think it was being sold well.
@@RussellB I've successfully blocked season 8 out of my mind, please don't remind me.
I think it was set up and executed magnificently... well.. except for the Ulf part.
@@ShryceThe Ulf part was ulful. Seriously though, it was so underwhelming and baffling. I would love to know what Silverwing saw in Ulf. Literally the first human to come along, and that's that.
Rhaenyra was doing a solid for her children by also clearing out most of the bastards in the vicinity in one fell swoop and makes it easier to control the ones who survived if they don't have a rabble to deal with. It also makes it harder for the seeds to organize. She gets to do it under the guise of greater good and it was the will of the dragon something, something.
Give Hugh time, they've retconned the character _but_ there is an opportunity soon for Hugh to go off the chain that would fit this 'new' personality they've given him...
I felt it was great lead up to a finale. I know people were expecting the pre finale to be the crazy ep but thats fine with me. Next episode is gonna go crazy!
You mention that next season is the final season, though after season 1's success are now greenlit for 4, which likely contributes to the slower pace of season 2.
and they have said they could go as far as 5 seasons, which could be the case considering how they’re pacing the events so far
Gotta milk the cow
Episode 7 my love
Oh god damn, I didn't even notice I said that 😅
@@mylittlethoughttree I appreciate your videos so much though and I’d love to have you on my podcast, the trauma dump podcast.
This has become my favorite channel. Not only an summary, but a true breakdown, and honest take is refreshing. Esp when some of the more commercial breakdowns are a bit bland.
"When they try to show this moment as seeming cool, it makes the flaws in the plan look more like plot holes" - I think you absolutely said it there mate, nail on the head.
I feel the reason it's hard to care about Hugh is because we've simply been told that we should feel sorry for him, been informed that his story is quite sad. They never took the time to sit in it or build it out a bit, to make that sorrow real and not just information: extra scenes, more personality, more details, anything would have made him 'real' to the audience. We've been told he is a blacksmith, could we see his smithy, the circumstances in the shop? "No, they only want to pay for eight episodes this year, and can't afford another set we'd only use once'. I hear you have a sick daughter Hugh, what's she like? Does she do or think anything? "Well you see she's very sick, far too sick to have any lines or distinguishing traits. It should simply be enough that she's very sad and very sick and I'm VERY worried about it." Because the time we spend with Hugh feels incredibly arbitrary and threadbare, we sit in those scenes struggling to engage with him as a person, wondering why we're here, why we have to be worried about this guy and his sick daughter and the mom who wants to go to Tumbleton. We're being told it's sad. But it's not sad for us, the audience, because they didn't do the legwork to make us care. It's a classic novice writing mistake and it's rather embarrassing - you can't simply tell your audience to care about someone or like them or hate them or pity them - the author has to earn it! And because we've burned this time with him as a character, knowing he'll have to matter to the REAL characters in such a thin season at some point, it ruins the tension in the dragon taming scene; the audience knows he exists to succeed.
The same is true with the boat brothers who live on the dock set. We are told they are brothers and that they like each other and there is this heavy stuff with Corlys. But the scenes with them never have tension, drive, personality; they never come to life. So we check in with them weekly and deduce their purpose early. The story fails them and the audience has now wasted it's time on them.
Let's contrast that with Ulf, whose scenes work much better this season. Ulf did not have a single scene that was just about him; every scene he appeared in, even the one with his big conman speech, featured another character that we know better than him. He isn't some drunk nobody we're dedicating a whole sluggish scene to - he's one of many people who is finding out the ratcatchers have been hung, or he's the life of the party which suddenly stiffens up when Aegon appears, or he's the surrogate representative of kings landing who receives Mysaria's propaganda and reflects the strain of the blockade. Moreso, don't end his first few scenes with him, moving on to the Dog and then Aegon, always having a different clear and understandable storytelling purpose in mind. The show isn't telling us to like and feel sorry for Ulf; it's using him for the shows sundry purposes. While in those scenes, he is granted opportunities to quietly develop his character in the background, stealing an apple and chickening out and seeming disappointed by his soup... Can you imagine Hugh doing anything small or mundane like that in his scenes? Something golden and humanizing?
Not for nothing, but I do also think that Ulf's actor bringing a little extra something that a lot of other casting choices in this show have not been able to do.
Ultimately, Ulf feels a bit more like Ros from GoT - a normal lowborn person who simply exists in this world, and the show happily brings her back for sexposition and little humanizing moments for Theon and then others; eventually, she feels real as a character in her own right. Hugh feels more like the GoT sand snakes - kind of glum, grim characters we check in with weekly because we presume they will matter, never being given the grace or time to feel real, forever trapped in this space of no self awareness or internal life.
If character introductions and development feels like a chore or a checklist, the audience will reject it. It's not a science, it's an art.
CLOUUUDSSSS, so happy to get a new video from you after passing a stressful exam 🥹
This season is the deep breath before the plunge. It's not many pages in the book but they filled it out with actually getting some sense of who the dragon seeds are. I'm happy enough with this season. Possibly because I knew how heavy the first half could be and turned out to be.
I think it's important here as we note Rhaenyra's "descent" into fanaticism, that we recognise her isolation from her councillors, is largely their fault. They only ever wanted to listen to Daemon, and to some extent Rhaenys. They were quick to blame her for Blood & Cheese with nary a rebuke to Daemon for his war crimes. At every turn they challenged her and tried to have her moved while they made war decisions. Their patriarchy pushed her into Mysaria's arms. She vocally asked, "what would you have me do?" and there was no response. Mysaria has provided her with a propaganda scheme, rivalling Otto's and pushed her to use dragon seeds. We should never lose sight of the role patriarchal norms play in fostering and perpetuating the Dance of the Dragons. Had Rhaenyra been given constructive council, instead of just "no's" then she'd be less inclined to isolate herself from her council who hold Daemon War Crimes Targaryen as some bastion though he has struggled to win over the river lands.
i hate the fact that they’re making rhaenyra daenerys lite. she can want the throne and even speak to others about the gods and their choosing her, without actually believing she is chosen by the gods. she could have been just cunning, she could have even been purely honest. but not the mad queen arc all over again…..😩
i agree, rhaenyra just plays out to me as dany 2.0. another girlboss with no real character flaws who only exists to be worshipped by all her yes men around her, or alternatively put down so she can conveniently give people a beating. I would have preferred it if they'd made her mad and vengeful from the get go like in the books, instead of making the same tired message of Men Bad, Women Good via her councillors.
The end of Season 1 left us with the notion that the Rhaenyra we were going to see in Season 2 would be vengeful, angry and determined, and that hasn't happened at all
@@Shorjok The writers are so bad: end of season 1 she looked like she was about to finally be like the book character, nope. Then in this season after returning from kings landing and the awful Septa Rhaenyra plot which was GOT S8 quality, she says to everyone “there are those who would mistake my caution for weakness” she then proceeds to do nothing as usual.
@@Shorjok Also you would be surprised just how stark the contrast is between the shows portrayal of men and women characters. They’ve spent the whole season making the men look like insecure little boys and the women as rational level headed figures.
@@synthamvs7624 >men look like insecure little boys and the women as rational level headed figures.
True and based.
i completely agree- the dragonseed's halfhearted inclusion was a really big problem for the dramatic catharsis if this episode. there may the bones of great arcs in the future for ulf & hugh, but the show failed to convince me that they shouldnt haveonly been properly established when they claimed dragons.
but, hotd is roadmapped for 4-5 seasons at the moment, so hopefully that alleviates some of your concern about the momentum of the show
"House of the Dragon never quite feels sure how much this is a bleak, brooding, Shakespearian tragedy and how much this is a dark satire-" I get that you're concerned about how these two sides of the story are balanced, but I really don't think one diminishes the other. Have you read a Shakespearian tragedy? They always have A LOT of humor. Hamlet would be a really funny comedy, if everyone didn't die in the end.
Certainly, I say there definitely is a good balance to find and, at times, the show gets it perfect. At other times, I think it plays scenes too serious, only to then pivot into comic relief Ulf. Shakespeare admittedly isn't the best example because you're correct, all his plays have comic relief characters, and that works for them, but here that makes for jarring tonal shifts. Never awful, this is still a very good show, but it's not quite found the perfect balance yet either
The point at 15 minutes is missing a lot of the nuance that isn't told and shown and then missing it. It isn't perfect, but there are a few things that you have to think before arriving to the point. No shade, just a very common misconception that I want to try to discuss. Like, ulf riding with a mount wasn't an accident, it was Rhaenyra flexing trying to save lives. She cares about the collective, not a few bastards. It is in line and makes sense from season to season.
“What’s the life of one bastard boy against a kingdom?”
“Everything”
Perhaps if I perceived it as a satire I might still be watching the actual show instead of occasionally viewing your recaps. I am
In total agreement that 2 seasons deep is way too long for the central plot points to waver this much. Also, it’s honestly insulting that the show runners have now gone through nearly 2 full seasons of literal tension build up with very little dramatic payoff.
I think Alicent might just like swimming. Old Town and King's Landing are both port cities. So, as a child, she might have swum a bit with Rhaenyra or her other friends.
I love your videos, and I am also happy you have introduced me to World Anvil! I have created my free account for now and it looks pretty cool! 😍
It’s not just you. I’ve struggled with the tonal shifts - particularly with the Ulf scenes and Daemon’s visions the stuff at Harrenhal.
Never read the book, so please no soilers in the replys. But I have a bad feeling about Hugh on Vermithor.
You should
One of the things that drives me nuts is to have so much focus on hereditary traits and have most Targaryen descendant to be so visually obvious you wonder how nobody noticed them… and it goes above the hair colour. They all have to share the same long hair Viking type haircut. So you really get this Jojo character effect that made it obvious who would play a part in the story. Hugh doesn’t look like a guy struggling in poverty with his cool outfit and cleanliness. I think the actors aren’t great either but it would have helped to have a full episode dedicated only to their arc, with the death of the child be on screen for example. There was so much redundancy of ideas in the show there was room for that, we’d just lose some Daemon nonsense and we’d have it in 8 episodes no problem
I think the "dragoncoif" and its variations is a common male hairstyle in the HotD universe, really. Amongst others. And might I point out that Hugh in particular might deliberately effect a "Targaryen" look, if unconsciously. He believes (and I'll be fascinated to find out if he's right, they'd better tell us) his mother was a sister of Baelon, son of Jaehaerys and Alisanne. That would be taking a plotline from Fire & Blood and giving it a twist.
So he shaves, bathes and dresses with appropriate clothing so he cant be in poverty?
@@TheRealHerbaSchmurba When everybody around him his dirty? Absolutely not. He lost his daughter from starvation, works the iron for a leaving. Time to wake up buddy .
@@mspirit “time to wake up buddy” Yea have a good day
you did well.. i was looking forward to hearing your POV, as i only found you last week
I agree with your point of view. I think, however, that the objectives set for each character in each narrative line are interesting and I like them, although I think that in some cases there are execution problems. Does this have to do with the writers' strike?
The season in general was good, but it felt like at many moments, things were ground to a halt. I'm not saying it was simply "too slow", but the characters, especially Rhaenyera, were seen in emotional moments, and there was an impression that something would happen to them, but then it was just back to business as usual.
I think they really fumbled it by pacing the first season so fast.
The first season was paced fine imo, it had momentum to it. The problem is the contrast that exists between that and this season, it should be at least consistent
I think you might be the first UA-camr I've seen that hasn't given this episode rave reviews.
Nah, Hill's Alive is one that usually always has some criticism for the show. Definitely Preston Jacobs as well and there's others.
@@SaneMillennial I don't know those two UA-camrs
I definitely think most of my problems with the season (which honestly, I don't have a ton, I've loved a lot of the season) comes from them only having 8 episodes. We needed to go from "Addam has a dragon" to "Hugh and Ulf have dragons" so quickly that they didn't really have time to do the Dragonseeds in the way I think they'd have liked to with 10. I feel like having scenes where Rhaenyra confronts Addam, she realizes bastards could claim dragons, she has the message sent to King's Landing, it gets to a ton of apparently real Targaryen bastards but seemingly not the Greens or anyone at all anti-Rhaenyra, they collect them all and get them to Dragonstone, they try the Dragonseeds out on Vermithor, and Hugh and Ulf end up with dragons ALL being in the same episode and a lot of them back-to-back is waaaaayyy too condensed. We didn't really get to sit with any of that, and there couldn't be any wrinkles (like Larys finding out and sending someone to go with the Dragonseeds to get intel or to pull an Arryk or whatever, just something). I think they could have made us care a bit more about Hugh and Ulf with more time too. I think a lot of the absurdity comes from us not being able to sit with the events before we're off to the next like I felt we did in episode 2 (hands down my favorite).
I'd like to think you're right, but it sounds like based on what they've said behind the scenes, that they cut it to 8 so they didn't have to do another big battle this season as it costs too much. They just suck at pacing and telling the story the best way possible sadly.
As time goes on I've gone from not caring about the show's meta-narrative clearly polarizing viewers, to lamenting HBO's "obvious" mistake in doing so, to my current impression that it was the point the whole time to force viewers to double down and back-rationalize their hot takes just like the characters have been doing under many peoples' noses. Watching people complain that the show is too fast, AND too slow, AND deviates from the source material AND sticks too much to the source material (but only the parts they dont like) AND is biased to one side, AND trying too hard to be neutral, AND relies on spectacle AND is boring AND is one note AND is all over the place, all with the same confidence, has been interesting.
I absolutely loved the Hugh the hammer 🔨 claiming of Vermithor if anything it was Ulf the white claiming that was boring 🥱😴😒
I get what you're saying with the dark-satire aspect; I was under the impression that the majority of the Dragonseeds were among the smallfolk of Dragonstone & Driftmark - it's fine for Hugh & Ulf, & a handful of others to be smuggled out of Kingslanding- but _dozens_ of them? It *did* come across as more than a bit farcical.
And I think the word you were looking for in your WorldAnvil bit was 'swathe'...
I do wonder, how necessary are dragonriders to wage war? Daenerys seemed ready to conquer Westeros with her 3 dragons while only ever really riding 1 of them. She didn’t know she would encounter a secret Targaryen in Jon Snow and didn’t seem too concerned with anyone else riding the other 2 despite being ready to use them to conquer the Seven Kingdoms. Can Raenyera not command the other dragons without riding them? Kind of like she tamed Vermithor in the scene this episode? Just a thought.
Dragons will not leave their roost, or not very far, without a rider. They will not attack, they won't listen. In the book, Dany has a hard time even just making Drogon listen to her and he is her bonded dragon. They are attempting to fix the glaring mistakes Thrones made that are irrational and so far from source accurate to be comical.
Arrax and Syrax can take Kings Landing alone yes, but even together they stand no chance against Vhagar. Maybe Daemon who is so bonded to his dragon to not even have to give it verbal commands, could take on Vhagar, but it would be extremely dangerous.
@@jessjess23brooks89 Remember how Daemon tried to get Rhaenys and Meleys to storm King's Landing with him and Caraxes? And how she thought he was nuts?
Dany is special. Like she is very special, she isn't a Targaryen, she is THE Targaryen.
I loved the episode, because season 1 had questionable choices by the creatives i'm just happy seeing what feels more like a singular style/approach. I love Ulf and the comedy and we'll see how he is used as a dragonrider and outside his own comfort zone of king's landing. Absurdism is always up my alley, comedic or not so i'd welcome that being bolstered but if the show stays as consistent stylewise where we can have both nuclear devastation on the human level AND Ulf funny pub vibes, i'll be more than happy
Jace suggesting using the Dragon Seeds then surprised Pikachu when they undermine his claim.
I'm with you on a lot of your points. I'm feeling a bit disillusioned lately... I seem to just like any scene with dragons. They could have spent more time on the other characters and world events, we get that Alicent and Rhaenyra and Daemon are mopey and have over burdened minds, and we don't need to see that over and over.
ep2 set up pace i was ready to keep up with. ep1-2 has more than 3-7.
I think the answer to many of your questions, including why we aren't getting a 10 ep season, is 'the writers' strike'. Also, introducing a teenage Daeron this late in the season and having him ageing up in real time into S3 might be too much of a jolt.
@@debragrogan6235 have no idea why they didn’t introduce Daeron in episode one of this season let alone last season. I think I saw a clip of him in the finale trailer so they’ll have him introduced at the very end of the season
I think they were so busy with the characterization of the dragon that they forgot Hugh's. It felt to me like it was supposed to be a demonstration of Vermithor looking for the right keeper. I *think* they were trying to show that Vermithor wanted the one who would protect others - he clearly cottoned on to him repeatedly saving that girl and trying to save others. And maybe selected Hugh because he was trying to "tank" and draw attention and wasn't afraid. But in being so obsessed with the CGI monster, they made Hugh look... Mad, but in a cr4zy fun Mad Max way, not with grief and abandon. I think they should've focused on making sure both of those character arcs were given attention in that scene.
Rhaenyra's desicion regarding dragonseeds is one of the reasons house targaryen lost it legitimacy and respect. There was Maegor as a example of Mad king but after him there were two peaceful rulers.
The fact that the Targaryens house was divided and millions of small folk died because of the civil war that ensued is why the Targaryens lost its legitimacy and respect. That is the fault of the usurpers, not Rhaenyra.
@@carastone3473oh god, another stan failing to see that everyone is at fault
@@carastone3473 "usurpers" Aegon is the eldest son. He inherits. That's the law. Rhaenyra being named heir was legally nullified when her father had a son.
I think we're seeing gaps that arise from adapting a Story Summary to screen. The original text is not a scene-by-scene POV narration of thoughts, feelings, dialogue and action. The gaps should contain connective tissue between the characters. Think of all the famous character interaction in GoT: Ned and Robert, Arya and the Hound, Jamie and Brienne, Jon and Ygritte, Tyrion and Bronn, Ned and Arya, Brienne and Tormund, Sam and Jon, Bran and Hodor, the list goes on and on.
As a viewer there's much less of that to watch in HotD. Most characters seem isolated from or at odds with the main cast. I think the identity of the show is as I said: a Story Summary adaption. "Rather than a novel, Fire & Blood takes the form of a scholarly treatise about the Targaryen dynasty written by a historian." That's what it feels like.
you didn’t buy hugh claiming vermithor, but you bought ulf claiming silverwing? also, there is comic relief in hamlet, which is a tragedy. and sometimes the comedy of life is the very tragedy of it.
Both were poorly executed
I didn't buy Ulf. I like Ulf, but the execution doesn't convince me and I find it a jarring tonal shift compared with everything else
I think the only real problem with this episode (and don't get me wrong it is a good episode) is that it doesn't feel like the second to last episode of the season but episode 7 of a 10 episode season. Likely because it was meant to be that originally. We have known since before the season aired that the showrunners wanted 10 episodes but HBO only gave them 8. That means the writers would have either needed to revise all of the episodes to get to the same endpoint they had planned for Season 2 or push the final two episodes to Season 3 and to me at least it seems as if the have done the latter. I am honestly a little worried that episode 8 will not feel like a finale for the season and will leave too much set-up and build-up unaddressed until season 3 but I hope I am wrong and we will get a satisfying climax next week
The season finale ties alot up but no one is gonna be wowed sadly
I am liking and subbing for this honest take man, felt the same way, I also gave it a solid 7.
P.s. I also didn't care about Hue 😅
Totally agree! The show is too narrow the only characters you feel for are the blacks and the greens and Corlys. No side characters like the faceless men or the red worm or the Dothraki….
Show more Daeron the daring
I think there was a clip of him flying in the trailer for the season finale
Totally agree that Hugh's performance was unconvincing, not angry enough, and i just don't care about him as a character. He's always felt so forced
i think you mentioned that you havent read the book. the riots are actually supposed to be a plot for later and it IS supposed to build up to something big but we're not there yet and its crazy that they started this plot this early seemingly to pin the blame on Team Green hoarding food for the dragons. potential season 3 SPOILERS AHEAD::
these riots are not supposed to be an "Aemond is a bad ruler" plot (not that he was a good one). theyre supposed to be a "rhaenyra is a bad ruler" plot when she is in power and they build up to a huge loss for rhaenyra, arguably the biggest loss she ever has. so the problem with this is that theyre making it so that The Greens are the original cause of the riots so when rhaenyra takes over (which she should be doing early season 3) she will be inheriting the mess The Greens made because god forbid rhaenyra be a spendthrift ruler who starves her people to throw a big lavish party for Joffrey (a thing she actually does in the book) or generally mismanages her money, one thing leads to another and she starts beheading people like she's getting paid to do it. This is how she earns the nickname "Maegor with teats", referring to a previous king, Maegor The Cruel.
Yes we love Worrrrrrrrld Anvilllllll
i just feel Daemons story is dragging
It's boring as heck....love the dragons but too much emphasis on miserable drippy queens.....Thankfully I have six seasons of GOT to cheer myself up with.
The show has a huge task in developing a lot of speculation where the book states events vaguely but factually. Their problem is they keep doing lame Hollywood gimmicks to keep us invested because they don't have enough faith in the story--therefore we get awkward themes more relevant to modern culture than historical.
????
@@MG-js8bn your cat walked on the keyboard, mate
@@MG-js8bn English do you speak it, OP speaks the truth. They don’t want to have a gritty war story of grey morally reprehensible characters destroying each other but instead a good side vs a bad side with a few grey characters sprinklers about.
Imo the feminist themes have become far too prevalent and overshadow all the other themes in the show, which was not the intention of the book at all.
HOTD is based on history? Shit, i needed better history classes in school.
@@PhosPhryne Yes you did, GOT and HOTD are largely inspired by the war of the roses, read about it when you get the chance, and fire and blood as well
8 episodes will ALWAYS be too short. Why do they do this??? 🥺
There's something I don't like about Rhaenyra that I can't quite put my finger on. I stopped watching last week. I didn't realize this video would discuss so I am tuning off. Just wanted to share my opinion. I'm personally done with this show
10:55 I agree w/this take and you're the only one I've heard talk about that. I feel this show in general doesn't do a good enough job of getting us to attach ourselves to the characters enough, starting w/the way too fast paced season 1 which imo should've been stretched to two seasons so we get to know some of the characters and their relationships more, especially things like the politics around and relationship itself b/t Deamon and Leana, and then Leanor and Rhaenyra and Harwin. We could've gotten some more political intrigue like we all enjoyed from GOT inserted here especially between Corlys and Rhaenys and Daemon and Rhaenyra as it doesn't really make sense for them to support them seeing as they think they killed Leanor. And now this season they just repeat the same themes and messages to us over and over again, and we don't know why we see these random small folk at all unless there's going to be some pay off later. And yes, the show is not using Corlys and other characters as much as they should be and Rhaenyra and Jace just repeated the same things over and over again for most of season 2, whining about not being utilized, and everyone's communicating so poorly for this to be a believable war.
I agree w/you at 14:10 too, like where is Larys? Why aren't they showing that he at least knows about this and is allowing this to happen? Otherwise it's just making him stupid all of the sudden when he was so keen on what was happening in KL before.
A really small point but I dont think theyve casted Daeron yet, so we might not see him. Nettles too, but it *EDITED CAUSE I REALIZED I WAS BEING ONE OF THOSE BOOK FANS*
Hugh LET his daughter die. He preferred that over losing status and going to tumbleton. Aka “YOU’LL HAVE ME TURN BEGGAR??!!!” as his response to Hey lets save our daughter
@@Undercovershrinkhere wrong, they tried to leave and Aemond stopped them
@@synthamvs7624yeah she died coz he chose the obvious too late
I dont know... I really enjoyed this episode! It was probably my favorite this season. I feel people are beeing to critical of the season so far, but oh well.
At the 2 second mark, you say episode 8 instead of episode 7
I feel like this episode should've been the second to last episode of a season because there's too much set up and not enough pay off
Meaning we speculate for 2 years meaning whatever the result is it won't pay off what people expect
Idk I just feel like this episode needed one more episode
I feel they have found a balance between the ridiculous and the deadly serious. I guess that is what life feels like for me most days. But you know for the dragons😂
"where is aegon gonna finish this season?" well last time it was out of a window so who knows
I agree that the dragonseeds scene wasn't what it should have been and made that exact point of already knowing who was going to get the dragons thus not going to die, but Hugh was ok, it's Ulf I have my problems with. Maybe Hugh's character could have been fleshed out more, but he gave us a good impression of what he's supposed to be like (and the beard really helps). Unlike Ulf, who at this point seems like a clown for a cheap shot every other episode. It's weird, but Adam was even worse (as in more out of nowhere).
Yeah I think that's fair. I'm not sure why I talked about Hugh more when Ulf is the onw that's tonally jarring
Absolutely loved episode 207 because of the dragons and how much of the dragons we saw❤
I’ve given up on Emma as Rhaenyra, which is so sad because she was my favorite character written in the books, but played by Emma Darcy it’s just a farce she’s ruined the character for me. Where is that Daenerys power that we want to see?
Millie Alcott as Rhaenyra is 1000 xs better than how Emma Darcy is doing and honestly they should’ve just kept the casting role with Millie and just made her look older.
2:50 that kiss exchange between them will never be readdressed or explained it’s just going to drop like a hot potato because it wasn’t in the script and it wasn’t in the books it was suggested on set at the time by Emma Darcy, most likely because SHE was turned on in the moment😂
You're dumb as bricks if you think Emma D'arcy is the reason Rhaenyra isn't as compelling of a character. Emma's brilliant, the writing for Rhaenyra, not so brilliant.
Millie looks like a 16year old… come on now!
you didn't even give 1 reason why emma is a bad choice.
@@kaiotic4910 I was aligning with what the creator of the video was saying; she’s been very reserved and lack of passion and conviction. Emma was a poor choice because she had no understanding for her role. She admits in interviews she never watched GOT and never read any of GRRM works. She is being a lazy actress in my opinion cause she hasn’t done research on understanding the character she’s meant to play. The best actors & actresses allow their character to shine strong while their personality takes a back seat. Johnny depp as captain Jack sparrow is a great example, a lot of people think of captain Jack when they see Johnny. When I watch Emma’s performance, as a super fan of the books, I don’t see enough of Rhaenyra being portrayed I just see the actress, Emma Darcy.
Just to be clear, there’s no hate against the actress or anything like that. This is just an opinion of a super fan who has worked in film and television for 16 years. 🙏🏼
I totally agree with this. 💯💯💯💯
No, not nonsense-there seems to be a general anxiety because of this shortened season with its subversive pacing is coming to a close. The clue was in the part where you referred to the next episode as the final season.. It’s hotd-jonesing.
I have my complaints about season 2 Rhanyera, Dameon and Alicent has been a little lost and quite inactive and the conflict has been stuck in build up even though season 1 was a purely build up prequel season. I'm afraid that HBO because season 1 was great is gonna drag this show out to keep people on their platform, honestly I have read fire & blood twice and 3 seasons would be enough I don't want more Daemon dream scenes, Rhanyera pacing a castle and Alicent in the woods scenes
They are kinda building up to the moon of madness
I'm deeply disheartened by the decline of this show. Season 1 was a masterful depiction of Westeros, but the current seasons lack the same essence. The writing, world building, direction, and storytelling have become erratic. HBO should acknowledge this and return to their previous filming style. It is imperative that they entreat Miguel Sapochnik to resume control of the show, or it succumb to further disappointment.
Was this season not impacted by the two strkes that happened not too long ago? That could relate to the season being only 8 episodes instead of more.
According to George, all the writing was done before the strikes, and it was a writer's strike instead of actors or something so in theory it shouldn't have
It was shorter cause of HBO’s new dumb precedent.
So it suffered from not leaning into Hugh more, you say?
You said ‘episode 8.’ This was episode 7.
ngl Ulf is a homie
Hum... I don't think this season is a chef-d'oeuvre. There are some defaults. For example, the introduction of the new characters is not very good ( I didn't read the book, so i was a bit lost with them). However, i love this season. I don't think it's too slow or too fast. I don't think daemon's ark is boring. It's a pity to see how spectators want only see action, battles, dragons... It's impossible for one simple reason : it's too expansive for that kind of show ! Remenber ! It takes 4 seasons for GOT to show us three little babys dragons ! Half of the show !
So, instead, we have a tragedy ! We have caracters who doesn't want war, blood, but... they will ! It's a simple tragedy ! And i love, in a tragedy, these moments more funny like we have withe Ulf ! It's not a problem to mix a bit of comedy with tragedy ! It was done many times in the story of litterature...
So, yes, this season is not perfect, at all, there are mistakes, and i regret it. But episode 4 gave me chills like not many movies did in my life ! I love most of caracters. I love how this season makes Aegon II horrible but also worthy of pity. The same for Aemond... I love Daemon' arc. The progress of a caracters is not only driven by his actions. It can be more inner. And it's the case here...
So, no it's not a new GoT. It' not THE ultimate show. But it's a good show. And it's worth to see that show, even if, yes, it's not perfect. The irony is Got season 8 had plenty batlles , plenty dragons, but people hated this season . Season 2 of HoD has few battles, more good work on the psychology of the caracters, but people found that borying !
Eye, what do you want ? The show never plan to take 8 or 10 seasons like GoT. With 3 or 4 seasons, more battles = more story rush ! Choose your poison !
I don’t really agree with the Identity section of this video. Saying something should be more absurd doesn’t really paint a good picture of what you were expecting 15:36. What is absurd? If it’s not serious, what is it supposed to be? Funny? And the show is definitely not a satire in any way. What is it satirizing?
But I do have to agree with you about Ulf. Why is everything we see with him so comedic? I get needing relief but it does feel jarring to watch people burn to death and get eaten, to “omg, you’re not gonna eat me buddy? Ha ha, good boyyy”
I'm not saying it has to be absurd necessarily, but that when they play moments too straight or "cool", it's harder to buy them and makes them feel a bit less human, and yeah I do find Ulf a bit jarring
The show is suffering from "too damn much Goin on syndrome". I get a headache thinking about it.
They should make a movie (all in Valyrian) about the Targaryens leaving Valyria for Dragonstone. That’d be more compelling than all the Alicent scenes this season.
im just glad others are getting treated like the black characters and have no type of character development. We seen them on a ship, but not out at sea. lol why not show the block-aid etc? why not show how the dragon chased Adam, especially him being the first out the bunch for a dragon to choose him. Corlys says 3 words an episode, is he even important anymore? all the other black kids are spread out and one has to get someone else's story because they can't think of anything else to do for Lady Rhaena. At least Lady Bale got to ride and "scout" out an area.
You're right about Hugh . Considering how they set-up him leaving his childless wife, I expected him to be even more bold in confronting the dragom. I was disappointed that he waited until almost everyone was dead - his courage would have been emphasised if he stepped out when there was more menance and choice.